# THEFITPROFESSIONAL1 PODCAST = (Intensity Multiplier Principles) Fellowship

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xqeslv8lZ0

[00:00] Hello and welcome to the Fit Professional One podcast.
[00:01] I'm just thrilled that you're joining me today.
[00:06] I truly appreciate it.
[00:06] This is my effort to convey my practices and principles for your very best life.
[00:11] I am absolutely focused on maximizing your margin, optimizing your teams, and rescuing your time.
[00:18] Through each episode, I will explore concepts and principles to help you exactly deliver your best life.
[00:24] I'm thrilled with some of the initial guests that I have coming in.
[00:30] We'll be talking to some Marines about fellowship.
[00:32] We'll be talking to a world-class cyclist regarding the concept of toughness and mental toughness and so much more.
[00:40] Later, we'll be doing a deep dive into the Apollo 13 archives to see what kind of management principles we can pull up for catastrophic response when you indeed run into issues in your life and your business that need that kind of work.
[00:56] So I appreciate any any help you can do.
[01:01] Relative to spreading the word for this podcast, giving me some thumbs up out there on YouTube and other channels so that we can continue to bring you all these messages and useful knowledge, skills, and disciplines that you can apply.
[01:15] And that is my commitment to you.
[01:18] I have the objective of working to give you actionable ideas that you can immediately implement in terms of what you're trying to accomplish.
[01:25] I believe that as a human being we are linked in mind, in body, and in spirit.
[01:32] In all those aspects, we will be exploring really quite deeply to see just how we can pull them all together to execute in elements that matter to us.
[01:41] I hope that you will join me as I roll out these episodes.
[01:45] I think it's going to be a lot of fun.
[01:47] Let's get to work.
[01:49] [Music]
[01:52] Welcome.
[01:52] I'm so happy and grateful that you joined us for the fifth professional one podcast.
[01:57] I'm thrilled today to have with me Ben Stoplett and Keely Kitzman.
[02:03] Two marines and guys I've known for decades, we're gonna have a blast today talking about the intensity multiplier principle of fellowship and how that positively impacts our lives and how we use that just to be chasing our version of our best life.
[02:23] So with that, I'm going to let these guys introduce themselves.
[02:26] Ben or Keeley, who would like to start and just tell us your background?
[02:30] This has been, by the way, who's starting?
[02:32] So I'm Ben.
[02:32] My background is I'm born in Eau Claire, Wisconsin.
[02:34] I went to Memorial High School, played football there, and then afterwards I went to University of Wisconsin Eau Claire for four days, dropped out, and joined the Marine Corps.
[02:44] I was in the Marine Corps from 2012 to 2016.
[02:47] Uh, and I served in Afghanistan in 2013.
[02:50] And after the Marine Corps, I got out and I went to the University of Wisconsin-Stout where I graduated with a pre-law degree.
[02:58] And now I'm currently in my last year of law school at Mitchell Hamlin School of Law in Saint Paul.
[03:06] I'm going for veterans disability law.
[03:09] So awesome, it's awesome.
[03:12] And you were kind of, you were studded stuff, didn't you set the opinion of like the highest GPA of the whole program?
[03:15] No, I had a high GPA though.
[03:18] I told her, I told everyone that was the case.
[03:23] He was, the perception is reality, right?
[03:26] You're number one and tell us you're published already.
[03:28] Tell us a little bit about that, where people can find that if they want that.
[03:32] I'm getting published in the Cleveland Marshall College of Law's Journal of Health and Law.
[03:35] And my article that I wrote is called From Healthcare to Hiring: Impacts of Social and Public Policy on Veterans in the United States.
[03:43] Awesome.
[03:45] So it just goes into the background of disability law for veterans and how veterans as a political block have a lot more strength than they realize.
[03:51] And just a lot of problems that are going on with like the VA and how veterans have the power to fix it and so does the Republic at large.
[03:58] Excellent, excellent.
[04:01] I had a chance to read it, congratulations, that's awesome.
[04:02] Thank you, it was a fun read.
[04:04] Keely, give us a brief background and then we'll get into your stories.
[04:07] Little bit, yes sir.
[04:07] So I'm Keeley Kitzman.
[04:09] I was actually born in Vail, Colorado.
[04:12] I came here around middle school timeframe in Eau Claire, Wisconsin.
[04:15] Went to high school, Benjamin here, at Eau Claire Memorial.
[04:16] Played football together.
[04:18] I was also a hockey player growing up all the way through there.
[04:20] And ended up just like Ben did, my first semester at UW Eau Claire, dropped out and I joined the Navy.
[04:27] And originally I joined to become a Navy SEAL.
[04:29] Found out a little bit was that you actually have to see and have good vision.
[04:33] Did not know that, so I got through my testing that we call it PST.
[04:37] So essentially it's a physical fitness test and I passed it.
[04:39] They got my contract and they went, "All right, cool, we're gonna sit down and get you know sworn in, all that stuff."
[04:46] And then they did the exam, they go, "You can't see, can you?"
[04:48] Because I went, "No."
[04:50] And so I tried to lie about it and you know, memorize the charts; didn't work.
[04:56] So they're like, "Well, you can be a corpsman, great application outside with medical aspects."
[05:00] You can still go to the Marine Corps if you're still interested in going to combat things, that nature.
[05:04] So that was my path.
[05:04] Ended up at two submarines in 29 Palms; I did two tours.
[05:09] To Iraq in 2014 to 15 and then again in 2016.
[05:12] It was from there really got interested in mental health, especially with the veterans.
[05:16] The statistics said, you know, 22 a day, at some point is even 23 a day for a bit there, have been, right?
[05:22] And that really struck a core with me.
[05:23] And as Ben knows, Doc is the guy who people come to when it comes to both medical and dental stuff.
[05:28] I mean, I was nice to explain that.
[05:29] Yeah, so, yeah, so as a doc with how the Navy works is you have the Department of the Navy.
[05:35] Marine Corps actually falls under the Department of Navy as a branch.
[05:38] It's its own separate branch, but it falls under the department.
[05:43] No, Navy's the branch, Marine Corps, the Department of Marine Corps, it's yeah, because we're the men's department.
[05:49] Oh my, there it is.
[05:52] What makes me feel way better now that you couldn't see and you were doing medical stuff, so this would be a lot better.
[05:59] But yeah, so it's essentially with the Marine Corps, that's the easiest way to look at is Marine Corps is the infantry for the Navy.
[06:05] And so with that in mind, Navy provides transport and supplemental.
[06:10] Aspects, so that'd be medical.
[06:13] So I got implemented into the Marine Corps.
[06:15] I was one of 30 or so Corpsman that are in the entire Battalion.
[06:17] And then we get separated about two per company with our two per platoon within a company of, you know, four or five companies.
[06:25] So it was really interesting, you know.
[06:27] You're in the title Doc.
[06:27] Doc has been, you know, one of the most upheld nicknames titles in the Infantry as a whole, especially with the Marine Corps.
[06:33] It's a very coveted name in the sense that you have to earn it.
[06:36] You know, those guys I've known that never were called Doc because they were by last name because they didn't do their job.
[06:40] So at least they did something right, so it's way to go.
[06:44] So I was known as Doc Kitty and got out in 2018.
[06:47] Came back to Eau Claire, Wisconsin, finished my bachelor's degree in Psychology and biology.
[06:51] And then and half, you know, halfway through I was debating between, you know, becoming a PA or becoming a mental health counselor.
[06:57] And after Ben and I spent quite a bit of time really talking about really what is my goal, what I want to do, and mental health still stayed pretty true that.
[07:07] So I ended up applying to UW Stout following events about footsteps and got into the.
[07:11] Graduate program which I just finished my first semester in clinical mental health counseling.
[07:15] Excellent, yes sir.
[07:16] No apologies, no public stuff yet, but we'll get there.
[07:19] Can I brag about Keely for Wednesday?
[07:22] So of course when he said battalion company, just so you know the size of that, or so people watching know.
[07:27] Size, battalions are 1300 to 1500 Marines and companies are about 250.
[07:32] So if he was only two per company, that's he's too per platoon, yeah.
[07:37] It's about six per company, right?
[07:39] So six corpsmen are responsible for about 250 Marines, which is a lot of responsibility.
[07:43] So and that's why it's like an earned title when they call you doc, is that they know that you could like take care of anybody.
[07:49] So it's a it's a pretty big thing that 30 guys can take care of.
[07:53] They're probably only 30 guys in the entire battalion that could you could only have 30 guys that are that good that could do their job pretty much.
[08:02] Very cool.
[08:02] Now Ben, you were in country too, tell us about that.
[08:04] Yes, I was in the Sangin District in Afghanistan, 2013.
[08:08] So I was there for seven months and I was a radio operator with Third.
[08:12] Battalion fourth Marines which is just with dude that carries the radio around.
[08:15] Pretty important job I'd say.
[08:17] Yeah, learned a lot about communicating effectively.
[08:18] You guys were essentially top targets for them.
[08:21] Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely.
[08:24] Actually Corman like Ely Dave the other the medical caduce they take them off because then there's the target.
[08:31] It's kind of like not having like saluting officers because they're a target and then I can't really do anything because I got to shoot me post.
[08:38] Um yeah, luckily for me most of our like pretty much all of our operations were in vehicles.
[08:44] We're mounted just because the saying is a really bad area and they it was like consider a black Zone where there's just too many IEDs and there's a lot of Legacy IEDs which they planted like you know 10 years ago and forgot and are still you know active.
[08:58] So luckily I didn't I wasn't Skyline too much but that was still Skyline.
[09:03] What's up that's pretty cool.
[09:07] So Keeley you had a specialty too.
[09:10] Yeah, tell us what you can about that.
[09:12] Yeah, so I was fortunate.
[09:14] Enough, I think it was just because of my size because most corpsmen traditionally I think, I mean I don't know why, but they tend to be smaller guys.
[09:23] I don't know, I don't even know why.
[09:25] It's just like machine gunners, yeah, those guys got, yeah, well they usually have the smallest dude or like the biggest, yeah, behemoth, that's weird.
[09:33] And so my first deployment was with just a regular infantry company and then basically through circumstance got picked up by the sniper platoon for two seven.
[09:46] And from that point on pretty much my career completely changed in the sense that I was now being inserted, whereas, Ben, thank you for that by the way for tooting my horn.
[09:56] You know, I went from being responsible for, you know, the medical aspect, the true grunt, you know, aspect to now being part of operations with sniper teams where we are up in the mountains providing intel for the entire battalion and sometimes multiple times doing like a combined effort, so I got thrown into.
[10:14] The loop, and as Ben has pointed out multiple times to me, is that we're expected to be an infant.
[10:20] We're just expected to be a marine as we are a corpsman.
[10:22] But you know, when it comes to clearing rooms, you know, conducting you know any sort of operation, so I was expected to be just as much of a sniper as anyone else in the team.
[10:32] That was really that was tough for me, going from being so focused on the medicine to being like, no, like that's obviously your expectation, but we also have this expectation for you here that you need to be a perfectly synchronous aspect of the machine for the team.
[10:47] So I need to be able to shoot, I need to be able to be on the spotter, you know.
[10:52] So that was that was my ended up being my second deployment and it really shifted the gears for me and just in the sense of just like, you know, we'll talk about just that fellowship being from kind of a macro fellowship with, you know, 30 guys to being in a micro where I'm in a team of four and we're completely separated.
[11:12] So yeah, pretty incredible and then to to.
[11:15] Brag about you one more time.
[11:17] So in the Marine Corps there they do a lot of cross training, right?
[11:20] So like my job as a radio operator, but I would teach my other guys the radio, so like they're not gonna be as good at me at it, but then like I'm not going to be as good at like infantry skills as they are, but we still cross-train.
[11:27] But when it's like sniper platoons, then like oh like Keeley's team, it's they're all exactly the same level at each job because they have to be.
[11:37] Because you like for me I would have you know 30 other guys or whatever and Healy he's got three, so they have they have they're they're more, that's why there's Special Operations.
[11:46] Like so like it's it's not even cross-training at that point.
[11:51] It's it's like you're just totally a total immersion out, yes.
[11:56] So and and yeah so like because you like if like what I said before, if you took off his corpsman symbol you wouldn't be able to tell them apart from the other snipers.
[12:04] When like a corpsman in a regular Marine platoon you would be able to tell just because they would only be doing medical stuff.
[12:11] So yeah, which was again that was that huge aspect of the classic I was at.
[12:17] Bear Grylls, improvise, adapt, overcome.
[12:18] Like that was our motto in the sense of just okay, make it work, it's cool.
[12:24] Yeah, I'm just in awe.
[12:27] I'm sitting here going, what a cool story, and I want to make sure I thank you guys for your service.
[12:29] That's awesome, you know.
[12:31] Thank you very much.
[12:33] I think our whole community of people we grew up with is just all about freedom, and you guys actually went out there and helped us keep it, and that's really cool.
[12:41] I mean, most years it culminates on the lake dock singing the Star Spangled Banner at the top of our lungs, so that must have felt really special for you guys the first time you're back and got to do those kind of things, I hope, because yeah, boy, we sure appreciate you.
[12:58] Yeah, it was, thank you for that.
[13:00] It was, you know, like you said, just like coming back to that was my dad being the loving father and patriot that he is, ended up surprising being the hometown hero at the Madison Nebraska game, which they won, so go Badgers.
[13:11] And no, I know we're in, I know Boilermakers.
[13:17] Yeah, Big Ten, yeah, that was Charlie's.
[13:19] Hometown here I would also like to personally send my thanks to one of my best friends and former teammates private first class Benjamin Stockland and wish him luck in his deployment in March.
[13:29] And I got it brought out and we get to the game whatever my dad goes hey come here and I get brought down on the field at halftime and I look up and there's my photos that my dad had asked me for that I just thought he's being a dad and they're up on the screen.
[13:43] And the so I'm up on the big screen and I look over at the student section and they're all doing this like they're just bowing and I was like.
[13:53] And I've been home for six days nice for Iraq so just like that yeah in the background is your dad was both a player and a coach a tune coach.
[14:00] Oh yeah I said my dad who's going to play at Madison ended up having a really bad injury so I never got to play with an athletic trainer and then he spent his whole I mean 20 probably 20 plus years coaching football he was the man.
[14:11] So that was the end.
[14:13] That's a great tribute.
[14:15] Yeah well just yeah just a tribute to him as a father as well right right so speaking.
[14:20] Of fathers and influence, Ben, you're kind of a big scout.
[14:23] Tell us about that, yeah, background influence of your dad in that space.
[14:27] So my dad got me into Cub Scouts in first grade, and I stayed all the way until Eagle Scout.
[14:31] And he was my troop leader along with one of his best friends, Dr. Max Meniker.
[14:34] And that kind of got me into like the sense of duty, teamwork.
[14:39] And like the Boy Scouts were literally invented to like prepare kids for war essentially, so funny that I went into the Marine Corps.
[14:46] But you know, they instill, they have it's called the Scout Law.
[14:50] And it's trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.
[14:57] And then they have actually, that's the motto.
[15:00] The Scout motto is, "On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law, to keep myself at all times physically strong, morally straight, and mentally awake."
[15:14] And then yeah, and then so then, but then also that like when I was getting into that Eagle Scout level when it's...
[15:21] Like the higher level that when they really start making you practice like what like you know like the Eagle Scout project itself, that's also when I was playing football, so it's just another reinforcement of.
[15:28] And my dad, he just, I mean, we, he still talks about like the Scout open law to me, like not even when it's like available.
[15:35] Yeah, we'll be like watching a football game, he'll just like recite it and I'll be like, okay.
[15:40] But so yeah, my dad's been probably the biggest influence on me.
[15:43] And I think football and the scouts prepared me a lot for the Marine Corps, even though I didn't know I was preparing for it.
[15:51] And football, like I know in your like email to us, you said like a lot of the target audience here has played a sport, but they haven't been in like the military while they played football.
[16:03] It's the same thing, literally the same thing without guns.
[16:06] It's a lot, the lessons are all there.
[16:08] And actually a lot of guys that join the military are have played sports, and it's because especially I think with guys, they're always searching for like a tribe.
[16:16] They're always searching for a group to be a part of, like something bigger than, something to be a part of something.
[16:21] Bigger than yourself and the Marine Corps kind of fills that.
[16:25] And like when a lot of guys get out of the military they're searching for that again.
[16:27] And that's like a I think that's a big a big problem when guys transition because they didn't know that they had it and then when they get out they search for it.
[16:34] And that's what with we talked about when I came back and played came back to play football with Eau Claire that just what he said was yeah.
[16:44] And he and I I mean I was thank God I had been when I came home because I didn't you know a lot of those guys don't have people when they come home and so they you know they isolate and that's where the demons come out.
[16:55] And I had Ben and I got approached by a football coach and I when I said yeah like yeah I think I'm good to go I'm ready to play.
[17:02] And I I started playing and I first day in the locker room I went finally try it again.
[17:06] And you know mental health just went right back to that you know upward slope.
[17:11] Nice yeah because I told you to do it because I was like the worst part for me like was when you get out of like civilian World comparatively it's like when I say easy meaning you're.
[17:21] Not gonna have to go do things for like a field out for like a month or whatever.
[17:24] It's just the schedule's easier, but it gets to the point where there's so much idle time.
[17:28] And they say like idle time is like the Devil's Playground.
[17:30] And when it gets too easy, you allow yourself to get like complacent, and that's when you start falling down the court.
[17:36] And if you don't have that goal or somebody depending on you, like like a football team, you won't drive.
[17:41] And when me and Keely found our like niche areas of where both were somebody's depending on us, like when I'm going to law, veterans will be depending on me, his patience will be depending on him, that gives us like a purpose again.
[17:52] And that's probably the biggest thing because yeah, and that's like the micro level.
[17:56] But when you're part of a team, everybody has that micro level of purpose that goes towards the greater goal of, you know, like for the football team, their mission's to win games.
[18:04] So it's it's applicable to that.
[18:07] That is just excellent and a great lead into what we want to talk about today.
[18:10] I mean, what a great background, and I think the listener will understand why I invited these two young men to have this conversation on Fellowship.
[18:18] I want to define just very briefly my intensity.
[18:24] Multiplier principles or IMPS are actually 16 strong.
[18:28] We're only going to talk about one today, and that's Fellowship.
[18:32] What I've done is through causal relationships that I've observed over time, so and then formulated a hypothesis and tried it in my life.
[18:42] Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
[18:44] What I've tried to do here is take a very complex particular attributes and make it actionable.
[18:49] So what I've done is try to simplify it a bit by adding two dimensions to each one of these 16 principles, so there's 32 dimensions.
[18:58] We're going to cover two today intensity.
[19:00] Multiplier principle of Fellowship is made up by the intensity multiplier dimensions of trust and loyalty.
[19:05] And if you can imagine a graph and we'll have some schematics for those of you on YouTube, but for those of you listening, imagine your good old graph.
[19:19] And in the upper right quadrant, we have our desired state of being where we have high trust and high loyalty through that we're.
[19:27] Going to discuss today how that actually enhances groups in teams.
[19:33] At the same time we'll talk about the opposite: what is negative trust, distrust, what is negative loyalty, disloyal?
[19:40] We'll talk about other attributes of that as well.
[19:42] But our idea over time is to do things, be part of groups, have a mission that lets us get to the point of fellowship.
[19:51] And in the fifth professional one practice, a big part of what I'm doing is understanding that student athletes essentially end up being professionals and fit professionals.
[20:01] So the play here is similar to what you've both already referenced by and Keely, and that is that the lessons we learn in athletics or other items like Scouts to our family, those tend to get propagated forward as a fit professional and they still work well.
[20:18] We tend to lose our way.
[20:21] You guys talked about that a little bit too, and it's really appropriate that we're talking about Fellowship because maybe it'll be a key for some some other.
[20:28] vets too where they can focus on action
[20:32] items with trust and loyalty and fine
[20:34] organizations that base that on a
[20:37] mission that they're passionate about
[20:38] and then offer that environment so
[20:41] that's a real summary basis and over the
[20:45] course of the podcast here we'll be
[20:47] inserting that image so you can get a
[20:49] better view of it but again imagine that
[20:53] we are trying to take actions to move to
[20:56] a more loyal state with our team uh and
[20:59] we're doing the same thing to build
[21:01] trust
[21:02] so with that in mind again it's kind of
[21:05] high level let's try to add some clarity
[21:08] Clarity to it through your examples so
[21:12] one thing that comes to mind is and
[21:14] maybe you guys can comment on is we've
[21:17] talked about where is Mission and all of
[21:19] this you guys both think you're athletic
[21:21] and Military experience and now in life
[21:24] experience let's talk about that how
[21:27] does Mission relate to Fellowship I
[21:29] think I can start on that one of my
[21:31] favorite quotes from the military
[21:31] Mission first people always without the
[21:34] mission there is no point of having the
[21:37] people there together so admission is
[21:39] key a king in the military so it's
[21:41] everything you do is the mission even no
[21:43] matter how small the the mission is I
[21:46] can tell you to go get a trash can
[21:48] that's your mission for that point and
[21:50] the military does really well is they
[21:52] really train you sometimes not so nicely
[21:54] to be obsessive about Michigan it's all
[21:56] about Mission completement and I
[21:58] actually wanted to read a quote that I
[22:00] really like so this comes from a guy
[22:02] named Martin shrepto and he got killed
[22:05] in World War one but when he was killed
[22:07] people found within his jacket a note
[22:09] that he wrote to himself then he says
[22:11] America must win this war therefore I
[22:14] will work I will save I will sacrifice I
[22:17] will endure and I will fight tearfully
[22:19] and do my utmost as if the entire issue
[22:22] of the whole struggle depends on me
[22:24] alone and I think that's what the Marine
[22:26] Corps and the military as a whole
[22:28] preaches and I think like football does
[22:30] that too you learn your job and it's
[22:32] part of a control chaos thing for the
[22:34] ultimate goal of what that mission is
[22:36] yeah it's really interesting it it
[22:38] starts with the individual and that's
[22:40] what and like you know Ben mentioned
[22:42] with the athletic aspect of it with you
[22:44] know with football you know truly having
[22:46] you know I can't we've all done it you
[22:49] know watching film and you watch a play
[22:51] fall apart and it's not because the
[22:53] whole team failed but it's because a lot
[22:55] of times it's one person failed their
[22:57] mission and then it caused an entire
[23:00] domino effect to everyone even though
[23:03] they might be completing their mission
[23:04] their aspect of the mission was
[23:06] dependent on that one aspect and you
[23:09] watch it collapse and then when you
[23:11] watch it succeed it's like oh my God
[23:14] it's just this well-oiled machine
[23:15] admission yeah that's a perfect one to
[23:18] talk about a couple of quadrants so yeah
[23:20] but that background what is that state
[23:23] of being look like in the quadrant we
[23:25] want where we have high trust and
[23:26] loyalty and then what does that look
[23:27] like in the quadrant where we have low
[23:29] trust and low loyalty right how would
[23:31] you see that unfolding oh yeah you look
[23:34] at those like they talk about the
[23:35] problem players in teams where you know
[23:37] the most skilled guy and we talked about
[23:39] you know you mentioned like heart we
[23:41] mentioned before in previous talks about
[23:42] you know hard work Will trump effort and
[23:45] or hard work Will trump talent and that
[23:49] you know some people argue well if you
[23:51] don't have the talent no matter how hard
[23:52] you work you can't do anything and I beg
[23:54] to differ on that because if you have
[23:56] somebody who thinks they're above the
[23:58] mission and they do their own thing it
[24:01] rarely if ever works for them and it
[24:04] causes an entire there is no
[24:06] compatibility with the team there's no
[24:08] mission to be had because the mission is
[24:09] completely thrown out the window at that
[24:12] point and that's when those guys you
[24:13] look at those NFL players that were the
[24:16] problem player and their cancer in the
[24:18] team and they get cut
[24:19] and I on the flip side you see the guys
[24:21] that you know it's the fullbacks the
[24:24] tackles you know the linemen that they
[24:26] they're not you know they're not getting
[24:27] these incredible accolades they're not
[24:29] getting all the interviews and such but
[24:30] when you watch them on film that man has
[24:33] done his mission to a t because that's
[24:36] what you know he had the trust and the
[24:38] loyalty to the mission to the program to
[24:40] the training this is what I have to do
[24:42] to make this work and when you see
[24:44] everyone doing that it's almost like
[24:46] beautiful for lack of a better terms to
[24:48] watch that happen and in the military
[24:50] when we would run Admissions and you'd
[24:53] see you know an entire you know platoon
[24:55] taking on a trench you know we we ran it
[24:58] I was like range two one of the range
[24:59] 200s and it was we ran them all the time
[25:01] we knew I could even still now write out
[25:04] to you draw it out for you like where
[25:06] everyone would go and the mission but
[25:08] when you'd see we get you know because
[25:10] we have we call them coyotes and maybe
[25:12] actually observing us and Grading us on
[25:14] how we did and they would talk about
[25:16] person by person what went wrong if we
[25:18] if we fail the mission it like even if
[25:20] like by the end like we finally got
[25:22] there like well you know you could have
[25:23] this could have happened half an hour
[25:24] ago had you stuck to the mission stayed
[25:27] loyal stayed trusting in what you were
[25:29] told to do and that's where that
[25:32] negative quadrant comes in and you see
[25:34] that and I was even part of that where I
[25:36] thought I was doing the right thing
[25:37] because I knew better and I became the
[25:42] Achilles heel of my team and especially
[25:44] when I was younger you know and then
[25:46] once you create then I started trust you
[25:48] know buying into the program as they say
[25:50] right and you see that I don't know so
[25:52] Ben if you that awe-inspiring quote we
[25:55] got to go back to that yeah I mean that
[25:56] that's awesome and you could initiate
[25:58] first people always well this is or both
[26:02] actually are probably applicable but if
[26:04] you could kind of get in that guy's head
[26:06] I mean that's still his note is still
[26:09] inspiring soldiers today right and could
[26:12] you just elaborate on that that impact
[26:14] and maybe I don't tell them to what
[26:16] Keely just yeah so I think the biggest
[26:18] part when it becomes disloyalty or even
[26:21] in the military mutant I think would be
[26:23] the right word yeah I think that's that
[26:25] lower quadrant I think a good example
[26:27] translates to the macro level that
[26:29] translates to the micro is First Gulf
[26:31] War is a very good example when you have
[26:33] a well communicated
[26:35] established defined Mission with a clear
[26:38] end state that people know and believe
[26:40] in they have to believe in the mission
[26:42] first otherwise there's just nothing and
[26:43] if you have that and you have a goal
[26:46] that's achievable and here's how we do
[26:48] it then everybody can train their own
[26:50] small job to complete that mission
[26:52] that's how you get the mindset of Martin
[26:54] treptile because it's something that you
[26:57] believe in because he he brought up
[26:59] trust he trusted himself and if
[27:02] everybody is like that it creates trust
[27:04] throughout the whole unit and throughout
[27:06] because you could have a great platoon
[27:07] but that company might not be good or
[27:09] the Battalion and so on and so forth and
[27:10] then it's snowballs it can go from top
[27:12] bottom or bottom up that's exactly the
[27:15] intensity multiplier so that's an
[27:18] excellent point so how
[27:20] speculate on what you think the impact
[27:23] of Martin's just being was on his what's
[27:27] his smallest true body system to be
[27:30] honest yeah
[27:33] in Venezuela yeah and so like his
[27:37] expectations his mentality his influence
[27:39] I mean yeah he and like you have to
[27:42] believe in him because like like you
[27:43] know fire team you have to know your job
[27:45] otherwise your fire team won't be able
[27:47] to do its job and then so then your
[27:49] squad doesn't and so on and so forth so
[27:51] they I think the biggest thing too is
[27:54] to have that belief in yourself for
[27:57] Mission success that's why the Marine
[27:59] Corps is so obsessed with Brilliance and
[28:00] the basics and training if you're
[28:02] competent in your job you will trust
[28:04] yourself to do whatever they tell you to
[28:06] do because you know you can do it and
[28:08] then Marine Corps is always putting you
[28:09] in positions where you're not confident
[28:11] and its entire purpose is to make you
[28:14] confident like when they make you go in
[28:15] the gas chamber you can feel how like
[28:18] shitty gas feels on you but then when
[28:20] you put your gas mask on you're like oh
[28:21] it works so you trust your gear and you
[28:23] trust your guys and you trust yourself
[28:24] because and if you don't have competency
[28:26] then I think the whole thing falls apart
[28:28] it starts right there it starts with
[28:30] trusting yourself well and that's in
[28:32] kind of yeah I hate the term but it's so
[28:35] piggybacking so they military abuses
[28:38] that word or that phrase but really
[28:39] going off that with when it came to
[28:41] Corman I saw I felt like I saw that more
[28:44] with the corpsman in the medical aspect
[28:47] when I'm comparing it to my infantry
[28:48] boys just because you know we go through
[28:51] the Navy corpsman and I will absolutely
[28:54] say it as a weird beehive besides the
[28:55] Special Forces Medics we are the highest
[28:57] trained Mexicans assistance positions
[29:00] was literally created in 1948 for Navy
[29:03] corpsman coming out of the war because
[29:05] they were just so much better yeah
[29:06] because we're so highly trained and
[29:08] I would have our new guys come in and we
[29:11] throw them right in the fire I mean
[29:12] that's that's just how things are done
[29:14] and you'd see him freak out you know
[29:15] they mess up and I wasn't a believer in
[29:18] the yelling and screaming when it came
[29:20] to that because my number one question
[29:22] I'd always ask me do you know what you
[29:24] did wrong and nine times out of ten they
[29:26] went yep I did business so you know what
[29:27] you're doing why didn't you do it and
[29:29] then well I was second guessing myself I
[29:30] didn't they didn't trust in themselves
[29:32] and then what we do just like Ben said
[29:34] like the Brilliance and the basics is
[29:35] like all right take out the patient I'm
[29:37] going to tell you a notional patient
[29:38] walk me through it slowly and they do it
[29:41] perfectly all right you know what you're
[29:42] doing
[29:43] trust that you know you have the
[29:45] information and you have nothing in
[29:46] front of you that you're meeting you're
[29:48] you're going and that applies to so many
[29:50] aspects of life just that you know what
[29:53] you're doing you've been trained in it
[29:54] like I mean like the whole purpose of
[29:56] this whole you know the what your
[29:58] mission with fit professional is
[30:00] trusting in yourself and you're giving
[30:01] them the basics you know if they know
[30:03] the basics and beyond that you know the
[30:05] intense stuff you're gonna succeed you
[30:07] just have to trust that you're going to
[30:09] succeed with the knowledge you already
[30:10] have yes and also and there's trusting
[30:13] the leadership I was going to say the
[30:14] leadership
[30:16] we call it setting them up for Success
[30:18] like he would throw those guys into the
[30:20] fire but they're gonna succeed at the
[30:22] end of the day they're gonna be
[30:23] uncomfortable but he's not just setting
[30:25] them up to fail comfortable being
[30:26] uncomfortable yeah yeah that's a that's
[30:28] a good way to put it so as functionality
[30:30] I've always thought leadership is
[30:32] getting kind of dumbed down
[30:34] in the professional world because it's
[30:37] being extrapolated to try to count for
[30:39] everybody and clearly in the military
[30:41] when you're going in you have a
[30:43] hierarchy of leadership and that with
[30:46] all the practice with all the reps with
[30:48] all the deliberate practice and
[30:50] simulations sounds like forcing failure
[30:52] just like the Apollo program does that I
[30:54] talk about in a different podcast coming
[30:56] up you guys make adjustments and the
[30:59] leaders also practicing making decisions
[31:01] too yeah and we have to practice
[31:03] leadership there's very we call it smart
[31:05] you know so we go to like things like
[31:06] Corporal scores it's all about
[31:08] leadership they tell you all the
[31:09] leadership traits and like they tell you
[31:12] like I was going to bring up you never
[31:13] ever will make somebody do something
[31:15] that you won't do yourself or have
[31:17] already done so you have to always
[31:18] always lead by example you can't just
[31:20] expect people to do it and then you have
[31:23] to look at people as people not as task
[31:27] completers yet we always say know your
[31:29] Marines and seek self-improvement now is
[31:31] be asking like we call it mentoring like
[31:33] so like if you're a leader you're going
[31:35] to be mentored by another leader who is
[31:36] a higher rank and so on and so forth and
[31:38] then you have to have like an open door
[31:40] policy kind of thing because that
[31:42] creates trust too not even in when
[31:44] you're making them do whatever task it
[31:45] is it's outside of that too it's kind of
[31:47] like the whole idea of it and we have an
[31:49] acronym for everything but for Marine
[31:51] Corps leadership it's JJ did the high
[31:53] buckles yes Justice judgment
[31:55] decisiveness initiative Liberty bearing
[31:58] unselfishness courage knowledge what's
[32:01] that leadership and then endurance yeah
[32:03] I'm good guys yeah
[32:06] and then they start the leadership
[32:08] training at the smallest level so like
[32:10] when you have like what we're talking
[32:11] about you have a fire team leader and
[32:13] you have a squad leader it's always a
[32:14] leader it's not we have a whole team
[32:16] leader it's always leadership and any
[32:18] the Marine Corps is obsessed probably
[32:19] weren't any branch about correcting
[32:21] deficiencies like automatically so like
[32:23] they call it like policing your own so
[32:25] if everybody's holding that standard and
[32:27] you're always doing it down and across
[32:28] the board it helps when you get promoted
[32:30] right so where you can because then
[32:31] otherwise sometimes like you get the
[32:33] thing where like your friends the three
[32:35] guys in your fire team and then when he
[32:36] gets promoted that could make it go
[32:37] downhill because he won't listen to him
[32:39] but in the Marine Corps you're so used
[32:40] to correcting everything even in
[32:42] yourself that you have no problem doing
[32:43] it so pulling out similarities and
[32:46] things we can use in our civilian lives
[32:48] in business or with our startup or
[32:50] whatever we're doing our organization
[32:52] our Friday night volleyball league
[32:54] whatever it is one thing I'm hearing and
[32:57] I'll go through a couple of things can
[32:58] you guys either correct me if I'm wrong
[33:00] or maybe okay at number one is it sounds
[33:04] like in the deliberate practice the rep
[33:07] the decision maker which we're calling
[33:09] the leader is trusted by his team or her
[33:14] team to accurately assess skill gaps and
[33:17] then recommend what needs to be done to
[33:19] fill those skill gaps and then try again
[33:22] until standards met for that particular
[33:25] practice so if I balled all that up one
[33:29] of the major roles of the person we're
[33:32] referring to as a leader is to manage
[33:34] accountability yes it's absolutely it's
[33:36] all about your kind of all these self
[33:38] accountable I think Michigan
[33:39] accountability is all that so but that
[33:41] trust remember our fellowship so we have
[33:43] the trust and loyalty so there's High
[33:46] trust right it's not given really no
[33:49] it's not it's developed in the
[33:50] deliberate practice absolutely where you
[33:53] get to see the person in that role make
[33:56] the tough decisions and perform it do I
[33:58] have that part right yep and then by you
[34:00] succeeding in the situations that they
[34:01] set you up and it helps you trust your
[34:03] leadership more because if you were just
[34:05] giving somebody a task that they kept
[34:06] failing and there's no Learning lesson
[34:08] or even bettering them then they're then
[34:11] that's going to cause them to go down
[34:12] the other curve of disloyalty where
[34:14] they're like well this guy's just
[34:15] wasting my time and I'm not learning
[34:17] anything I'm not getting better and then
[34:18] it's killed and then yeah yeah and then
[34:21] all right uh high stakes yes high stakes
[34:23] and then like so you have to create an
[34:25] environment for the group for to have
[34:28] them have something to overcome and have
[34:30] shared experiences but with the end goal
[34:32] that they can succeed together and
[34:34] sometimes like for like a company
[34:35] building a team building it's something
[34:37] that none of them could do alone it's
[34:39] kind of like an obstacle course kind of
[34:40] thing but if they all work together then
[34:42] they can complete it and then another
[34:44] thing too is like you you always hear
[34:46] like the military lingo having a shared
[34:48] lingo like in a company or like in a
[34:50] team language yeah having a shared
[34:52] language that's you know it's actually
[34:54] probably underrated and then someone
[34:56] comes out of the mission I would think
[34:58] the shared Mission actually absolutely
[35:01] determines a lot of the length and then
[35:04] I would say creating a unique sense of
[35:06] identity for your team because like
[35:08] we'll have inner Squad competitions in
[35:10] or whatever competitions so they can
[35:12] take pride at the lowest level or like
[35:14] you'll give like your troops just a
[35:15] little contest and whatever and it might
[35:17] be like you get off an hour early or
[35:19] something like that but it helps it has
[35:21] them take pride in the lowest levels and
[35:24] even I would say absolutely the only
[35:25] thing that the military does on an
[35:27] individual level is we call it Field Day
[35:29] for every Thursday for like 10 hours
[35:32] it's you just clean your room and the
[35:34] room is probably like half of this room
[35:37] and you and like they just move
[35:39] everything out you know they might go of
[35:41] it and that that leads you to have pride
[35:44] in your things or like your ear how it's
[35:46] set up so it's or probably the other
[35:48] biggest part is your weapon your weapon
[35:50] is like elements I just had a
[35:53] conversation I was so I became really I
[35:54] had a commanding officer at the time was
[35:57] a major pill plan and now or he he just
[36:00] got promoted a major no he's not
[36:02] Lieutenant Colonel and I was on I just
[36:04] had a phone call to him and one thing I
[36:06] asked him because he really was a mentor
[36:08] and he was a bar none the best leader I
[36:11] have ever encountered in my life so much
[36:13] so that even the point like right now if
[36:14] he told me to do something I would
[36:16] believe in the reasoning behind it and
[36:19] the one thing he told me on the phone
[36:21] was the hardest thing for him and he
[36:23] actually started enlisted so we call him
[36:25] a Mustang because he went enlisted
[36:26] became an officer after that so he kind
[36:28] of had that dual knowledge of what it's
[36:30] like to be under leadership and then to
[36:33] be a leader he said the hardest thing
[36:35] for him to really believe in was
[36:37] trusting people to follow through with
[36:39] the mission and not being that
[36:41] micromanaging and he you know trusting
[36:43] in your not supporting it but your
[36:45] company your platoon to fall through the
[36:48] mission because at that point you know
[36:50] when you get to that leadership level
[36:51] and a company a business whatever it is
[36:53] if you don't trust your the people
[36:55] working for you you're never going to
[36:57] complete the mission and you're not
[36:58] going to complete your mission as a
[37:00] leader right I totally agree with that
[37:02] and it what happens is those same
[37:04] leaders if somebody's having a problem
[37:06] will be be quick to help them but have
[37:08] the expectation they become self-reliant
[37:10] again to move forward on a team you guys
[37:13] were talking about the human animal and
[37:15] it's so important and trust and loyalty
[37:17] is that empathy has to do with in
[37:19] building trust is there's got to be an
[37:22] appropriateness over time of the person
[37:24] in the leadership position managing the
[37:27] relationship with subordinate in a way
[37:30] that builds trust you just send a huge
[37:32] huge trust another thing to I think the
[37:34] listener should pick off is it's between
[37:37] what you two have said is it's very
[37:39] important to learn how to follow before
[37:40] you take a leadership position
[37:44] you can't lead it you can't follow and
[37:47] then but why because it's kind of like
[37:50] the Mustang in the trust loyalty
[37:51] Paradigm yeah because you see it at a
[37:53] lower level you're getting the orders
[37:55] and you're completing the task and you
[37:56] see it being successful and also it's
[37:58] like if you're following Somebody by
[38:00] definition that means you have a leader
[38:02] and you can take their tools the good
[38:04] and the bad and put your tool bag and
[38:05] then take other leaders and put that
[38:07] their trades in your tool bag so when
[38:09] you become a leader you can be like I
[38:11] didn't like how they handled the
[38:12] situation I'm going to do it this way or
[38:15] I really liked how they handled this
[38:17] situation so I'm going to do it this way
[38:18] and it just gives you an appreciation
[38:20] for the entire organization uh top to
[38:22] bottom because if you're kind of down
[38:25] doing the Dirty Work Well then when you
[38:27] are in a leadership role you know how
[38:28] much it either is they're going to be
[38:30] happy about it or not happy about
[38:31] whatever you're telling them to do and
[38:33] that really leads you to take different
[38:35] decisions it actually makes you think
[38:36] more as a leader and you have more
[38:37] empathy for your subordinates if you've
[38:39] been in their position before so in a
[38:41] professional circumstance how do we make
[38:44] that actionable and what comes to mind
[38:45] for me is there is a capability
[38:49] and a competence factor for each
[38:52] individual and good leaders never exceed
[38:55] that in that Bill's trust uh they
[38:58] recognize what the individual is capable
[39:00] of and they also I think have a feel for
[39:03] pushing that envelope when it's time for
[39:04] you to improve yes it's and so you you
[39:07] go what he told me to do that or she
[39:09] told me to do that and you go through
[39:11] and also you go wow I got through it or
[39:13] you get stuck and they show up like I
[39:16] said and they help you don't hold your
[39:18] hand through the whole thing help you to
[39:20] help yourself and get you to that
[39:22] self-reliant state so your capacity and
[39:25] competence grows and grows in the role
[39:27] does that feel right true guys and it
[39:30] sounds like I'm a plant for this but you
[39:32] guys are the plan with having a really
[39:34] impressive being really close with your
[39:35] son and following his journey just I
[39:38] mean besides Ben is one of the most
[39:39] intelligent and driven human beings I've
[39:41] ever met but what really just blew me
[39:44] away was him leaving Salt Lake his job
[39:47] in Salt Lake City coming here with the
[39:49] business that you own and you have every
[39:51] ability to put them right to the top
[39:53] just handing it to them and having him
[39:56] start from that position that he started
[39:58] in and [ __ ] earn it and I remember
[40:01] him literally talking like we would talk
[40:03] about like with our parents just having
[40:05] fathers that push us as you know leaders
[40:07] within the family you know and how he
[40:09] has you as a leader as a family as also
[40:11] a leader of a business and he would show
[40:13] me emails about how you were guiding him
[40:15] but also pushing him to be better like
[40:17] hey there's some deficiencies here like
[40:19] you need to fix these and being a really
[40:21] being privileged to read that and being
[40:23] like wait that's your dad you know it
[40:26] wasn't this relationship like I would
[40:28] have never you could have never claimed
[40:30] nepotism on that because it truly was a
[40:32] leader telling somebody I know your
[40:34] capability and you need to freaking earn
[40:36] it yeah and but also I'm gonna help you
[40:39] earn that and here's some tools and like
[40:42] that for me I don't like that's exactly
[40:44] a big part of the leader again I like to
[40:47] use management because there are people
[40:49] and they have to get good at their jobs
[40:52] and we refer to those leader but they're
[40:54] they're managing the things we're
[40:55] talking about in an optimal Manner and
[40:58] and we call them leaders because they
[41:00] get to make decisions somebody's got to
[41:02] be responsible for the decision to me
[41:04] that's the differing Factor because all
[41:06] these things we're talking about make
[41:08] great teams if everybody has these
[41:10] attributes because part of a distrust of
[41:13] loyalty in the troop in the team in the
[41:15] business is to look at your peer as well
[41:18] even look at your Superior and frankly
[41:21] do the same thing to the extent it's
[41:23] appropriate applicable and what supports
[41:26] the mission that's what's so cool about
[41:28] it so the big differentiator I really
[41:31] really came to light in the next podcast
[41:34] on Apollo 13. I hope you guys will
[41:35] listen to it where where the hierarchy
[41:38] matters but it's got functionality yeah
[41:41] and and it's the only differentiator
[41:43] really ought to be in other words I'm
[41:45] not arrogant I'm not better than you I
[41:48] just kind of different role and
[41:50] responsibility that's all it is and then
[41:52] the subordinates hold the manager to
[41:55] that thing we refer to as leadership is
[41:57] that decision making capability when it
[41:59] sucks so we both want to say a lot here
[42:01] I can see it here guys I love it rock
[42:03] and roll I mean it was with Phil Lambert
[42:05] when I really I guess deciding factor
[42:08] like this is the man I'm gonna fall into
[42:09] battle was you know we did admit we did
[42:12] a full exercise one I think it was like
[42:13] MRX McCree one of those type things you
[42:15] know week month-long things that were on
[42:18] the field and then afterwards he pulls
[42:21] in and he would pull in the subordinate
[42:23] leaders you know the platoon leaders on
[42:25] stuff and he'd ask them what do you
[42:27] think how could we do better and it
[42:29] wasn't him doing it and he was saying
[42:31] like well what do you think I did wrong
[42:33] and no one would say anything like oh
[42:35] you know well I think we could do better
[42:36] sir you know all the stuff because
[42:38] that's not what I'm asking what do you
[42:39] think with directives I gave you
[42:41] objectives I gave you was that something
[42:43] that was attainable or is that something
[42:44] that we need to work on on my end to
[42:46] make it more Mission capable and I sat
[42:48] there was like are you kidding me like
[42:50] this is he's a freaking major and it was
[42:53] mission based and it was mission based
[42:55] it's Mission based and I think in in the
[42:57] professional world when you guys get out
[42:59] there and get your organizations that's
[43:01] a huge part that's missing is it's
[43:04] different reasons the mission that
[43:06] they're bringing up exactly the kind of
[43:08] thing you said but right if everything
[43:09] goes back to the mission because it does
[43:12] on sports teams it does in the military
[43:13] I believe it doesn't really successful
[43:16] organizations oh yeah then we're talking
[43:18] about the mission as opposed to you suck
[43:21] as a leader or it's more like okay I
[43:24] made that mistake and here you have a
[43:26] superior asking has a sense that must
[43:29] have that it didn't go right yeah and
[43:31] the mission besides completing the
[43:33] mission we gotta switch into that too is
[43:36] getting everybody back alive and the
[43:39] civilian version of that I'd love to
[43:40] hear what you guys think that is because
[43:43] there are like mining non-metallic
[43:45] mining you do have an element of safety
[43:48] that is saving lives
[43:49] but not like the military not like being
[43:52] in country but the point is when the
[43:54] stakes are high I actually think the
[43:57] decision all the things we're talking
[43:59] about matter more and if you don't do
[44:01] anything but look at the mission in
[44:02] terms of improving to get it there it
[44:05] being whatever the submission is like I
[44:08] know in the Air Force they call them
[44:09] sorties I don't know what they call them
[44:11] when you guys would go in and out
[44:12] patrols whatever it is Patrol patrols I
[44:15] mean that has a mission too yeah it's a
[44:18] mission within the mission and like what
[44:20] I was gonna say is yeah please elaborate
[44:21] when Keely brought a good point of like
[44:23] you have to be self-critical like as
[44:26] like a leader because it's hard
[44:28] like when I say get in there and do the
[44:30] dirty work and like to follow before you
[44:32] can lead yeah it's easier for like
[44:34] Lieutenant to come in to fill sandbags
[44:35] with us than it is for like in the
[44:37] business world for like the CEO and
[44:39] coming down and doing one of their jobs
[44:40] but a way to insert yourself into the
[44:43] lower ranks or whatever you want to call
[44:44] it is asking them for feedback because
[44:47] then you're giving them a chance to
[44:48] release you yeah and and the I think the
[44:51] hardest part about any leadership is
[44:53] knowing which hat to put on because you
[44:55] were talking about it before like when
[44:56] are you a guide when are you the guy is
[44:58] saying no this is what we're doing then
[45:00] that comes with what I was saying before
[45:01] how the Marine Corps practices
[45:03] leadership it can't just be a leader
[45:05] it's you have to be in I like to say
[45:06] involve the leadership you have to be
[45:08] involved with them and yourself and you
[45:10] have to keep getting better yourself
[45:11] otherwise I mean it doesn't it's
[45:14] excellent back to management again
[45:15] you're managing development of human
[45:17] beings and there's going to be another I
[45:19] think I'm going to do a podcast on it I
[45:21] call it positive drop-ins pdis okay and
[45:25] does the general drop in to the prime
[45:28] bit or does the lieutenant drop into the
[45:31] pride vote and okay but there's an
[45:34] appropriate time in a business thing I
[45:36] want to give you is my organization will
[45:38] go do trade shows and what I found out
[45:41] really I wanted to be there and help and
[45:44] Coach but with my title CEO and owner
[45:46] when I was there and helping coach and
[45:48] my card was laying there it doesn't seem
[45:50] practical to me there's people on my
[45:52] team that are far more technical but I
[45:54] believe in having them be better at
[45:56] their jobs and they would take my card
[45:58] not the real technical person or Pro if
[46:01] you will card in my group so I think
[46:03] pdis are very important they have to be
[46:06] appropriately done they have to be the
[46:08] right people too but they happen often
[46:11] they have to happen often and that's on
[46:13] my list in 2023 to improve on because my
[46:16] wife said the other day God I can't
[46:18] believe you get behind your computer and
[46:20] you don't come up for 10 hours when I'm
[46:21] into it let's go but you have to do that
[46:24] in a positive drop-in has an agenda yes
[46:27] it's it has a development agenda always
[46:30] so I'll stop there and have you guys
[46:32] elaborate but to me it's I'm trying to
[46:35] find crossovers into the professional
[46:37] stuff and this this does crossover so
[46:41] the first thing like doesn't matter what
[46:44] rank the higher up is when they drop in
[46:45] how are you guys living that's always
[46:47] true welfare they're always asking how
[46:48] things are just in general and then what
[46:51] were you guys doing out in the field and
[46:53] then well we were learning this show me
[46:55] and then it might be nerve-wracking but
[46:56] you're right there's always an agenda
[46:58] show me is an accountability yes and
[47:00] then it's also for him too because then
[47:01] he's like if you do it then like
[47:04] correctly then they're like okay we're
[47:06] doing well in that let's continue to
[47:08] hone that and then two if you can't then
[47:11] that gives the leadership to be like
[47:13] okay well I have to fix that somehow
[47:14] sure and then another thing too is well
[47:17] and also that lets them know they have
[47:20] validated competency capacity so they
[47:24] know whether to use it or not correct
[47:25] yeah because like so like you're taking
[47:27] the hill we're going to get to that
[47:29] discussion but you're going to send the
[47:31] right yes person or group of people that
[47:33] have the right skills to accomplish that
[47:35] and that builds trust too doesn't it
[47:37] with the team yeah yeah that's because
[47:38] they're not going to send the wrong guy
[47:40] again that's why you and when I said you
[47:41] have to know your Marines and seek
[47:43] self-improvement exactly you're not
[47:44] going to send the worst guy that's a
[47:46] runner to go run like you're just
[47:48] because otherwise you're setting them up
[47:49] for failure and then if they fail then
[47:51] that goes trust downhill and then like
[47:54] another thing though too is like what is
[47:56] it talking about skill gaps we're
[47:58] filming yeah if you lose the runner okay
[48:00] you got to take the next best runner
[48:02] when the function of running comes up
[48:04] and I don't know what that means yeah in
[48:06] military space but in the business space
[48:08] we got to fill skill gaps wanting to
[48:10] save employee leads for some reason or
[48:12] they're sick or maybe they're on
[48:14] maternity leave and we have a big gap we
[48:16] have a gap and that's we got to go to
[48:18] the next best person or we got to fill
[48:20] that skill yeah why so guess what
[48:22] happens to deliberate practice yeah and
[48:24] that's the functionality of the PDI too
[48:26] is figuring out out okay who am I going
[48:29] to move into that spot so I think that
[48:31] builds trust and loyalty with the troops
[48:33] because the troops appreciate my
[48:36] employees appreciate the fact that I'm
[48:38] trying to fill that Gap the difference
[48:40] with you guys I'd like you to elaborate
[48:41] onto is I think in professional spaces
[48:44] it's not common for employees to notice
[48:47] that yeah and because why is that I
[48:51] think it's because they're not told that
[48:52] well we're in the military when I'm
[48:54] training a guy I always let them know
[48:55] I'm doing this because it's the Marine
[48:58] Corps is obsessed with not letting down
[48:59] Marines from the past I'm going to train
[49:01] you to the best of my ability so that I
[49:03] don't let the Marine Corps down and you
[49:04] don't let the Marine Corps down and
[49:05] because one day you're going to be in my
[49:07] shoes and you're going to have to be
[49:09] passing on those leadership skills so
[49:10] like and it supports the mission well
[49:12] the whole not letting down the Marine
[49:13] Corps like we're gonna we're gonna
[49:15] complete the mission you guys get to a
[49:17] point in the military and I think
[49:18] athletic teams due to where the manager
[49:21] who's got leadership responsibility the
[49:23] final decision doesn't have to
[49:25] constantly go over the mission no
[49:27] because you have such belief doesn't
[49:29] that make efficiencies yeah it makes
[49:31] efficiencies but also the thing though
[49:33] and that's why I said before like the
[49:35] the clearly communicated Mission and
[49:37] that and that doesn't happen to be once
[49:38] it can be it should be a couple times
[49:40] but it doesn't have to be to the point
[49:41] of obsession but you got to tell troops
[49:43] or people under you where are we right
[49:45] now where do we want to be here's how we
[49:48] can get there with you have to give them
[49:49] clear achievable benchmarks you can't
[49:51] just say go do this like you said you
[49:53] know helping them through it but that's
[49:54] hit a benchmark that's a success and
[49:56] acknowledge Him with self-reliance as
[49:59] the objective correct yeah self-reliance
[50:01] it's because it's like training wheels
[50:02] capacity capability you make sure they
[50:05] got it yeah it's like when you're
[50:06] teaching a kid to walk yeah you'll help
[50:07] them up when they fall down but you're
[50:09] not going to make their legs move for
[50:11] them yeah you're going to be there to
[50:12] catch them when they fall just like the
[50:14] leadership because it always
[50:15] falls on the leadership they'll learn
[50:17] how to get up yeah and you learn how to
[50:18] get up and that's part of it but it's
[50:20] you can't be walking without ever
[50:22] falling before you are held your hand a
[50:25] little bit and then a slow cycle it's
[50:26] like we always say you can you have to
[50:28] crawl before you can walk and you can
[50:29] you have to walk where you can run and
[50:31] it's a process and it's a never-ending
[50:33] process for leadership it's continual
[50:35] learning continual development that was
[50:37] one thing cool because you had to sit on
[50:39] them for with Corman we're constantly
[50:41] giving classes on combat trauma and how
[50:45] to do that and I know you were a CLS
[50:47] Marine you use the term CLS combat
[50:49] life-saving you know they're like we've
[50:50] mentioned is I'm one doc within a squad
[50:54] or you know there's been times where I
[50:56] was the doc within 15 20 guys and what
[50:59] happens if I go down cross-training and
[51:01] so that cross-training like you
[51:03] mentioned with the PDI is like a
[51:04] positive drop in is the amount of times
[51:06] that I knew a good leader when I'm
[51:09] giving the classes and then you know I
[51:11] have like my board or if I've made a
[51:12] PowerPoint you know with pictures and
[51:14] stuff because you need that visual thing
[51:16] and then I look back and there's my
[51:17] lieutenant or a captain sitting in the
[51:19] back writing stuff down and then it
[51:22] fully applied then like you mentioned
[51:23] like coming in to fill the Gap if you
[51:25] needed to as a leader and I had a we
[51:27] were in training exercise Marine blew
[51:29] off his fingers during a mortar round
[51:31] and I snapped in did my thing and the
[51:34] first person that's there is our leader
[51:36] and he's not yelling at me to do
[51:38] anything in a sense of medical he's
[51:40] asking questions doc what needs to be
[51:42] done and I tell him that because of that
[51:44] cross training all I have to do give him
[51:46] his little cues and he's already doing
[51:48] it as a leader and then using his
[51:51] leadership aspect of making sure that
[51:53] there's a bird moving there's some sort
[51:54] of vehicle getting to me so that I can
[51:56] get my patient off the X and you know to
[51:59] a facility he was able to use his use
[52:01] that cross-training Gap to then not only
[52:03] apply the skills that I trained him with
[52:06] and so that you know he dropped in to
[52:07] learn that and that to me I was like
[52:09] yeah that's the man but also then
[52:11] putting back on his leader hat and going
[52:14] all right get decisions need to be made
[52:16] doc told me this needs to happen and I
[52:19] know how to make it happen right and a
[52:21] big thing for that was like trust goes
[52:23] into like when I say competency but also
[52:25] confidence what is a huge thing is when
[52:27] you get to the point of where you're
[52:28] just doing your job and you're done the
[52:30] hand pulling stuff is it feels really
[52:32] good as a subordinate to do your job
[52:34] confidently in front of your leadership
[52:36] when they're involved in it like when I
[52:39] would have my lieutenant come and ask me
[52:40] just like you know oh how do you do this
[52:41] on the radio like you might know
[52:43] everything that your people under you do
[52:45] but like that you said like The Tech
[52:47] Guys just dropping in and be like oh how
[52:49] do you do that and then they show you
[52:50] well confident you're not handling them
[52:52] you're learning when they see that you
[52:54] can learn from them that it increases a
[52:56] lot of trust because it humanizes the
[52:58] leadership instead of just getting
[52:59] orders top down if you feel like you can
[53:01] teach something to them and that they
[53:03] appreciate that you are competent at
[53:05] your work it it like the best leader I
[53:07] had was it almost sounds like the same
[53:09] guy I think that's a curve in the
[53:12] professional space where the closer you
[53:14] are you know a hierarchy to the person
[53:17] you just described the bigger impact to
[53:19] get right there's a relay in-person
[53:21] relationship there the further away like
[53:24] if if let's take a large company like
[53:26] Google and the CEO Google goes and talks
[53:29] to a warehouse person super but what is
[53:32] the net impact in as far as trusting in
[53:36] other words no [ __ ] that you know
[53:38] that that Co in that particular space
[53:40] learn it might listen to it but there's
[53:43] not going to be cross training there
[53:44] it's too big of an organism that's why
[53:45] they're saying as opposed to the person
[53:47] in the warehouse huge inverse
[53:50] relationship is all I'm saying and right
[53:52] that's another piece that you guys take
[53:55] for granted where in the professional
[53:57] space they think that's a great learning
[53:59] curve right to the top yeah you know
[54:00] there's even a reality show right Dirty
[54:02] Jobs yeah yeah so with that we're doing
[54:05] the professional one broadcast it's
[54:07] great to have you with us we're going to
[54:09] further develop this concept
[54:12] this is a fascinating discussion you
[54:14] guys doing a disservice if we didn't
[54:16] discuss how do you let's use military in
[54:19] football how do you hone trust and
[54:22] loyalty get it entrained and develop it
[54:24] there's actually research that has been
[54:27] done out there whereby it says it's not
[54:30] necessarily In the Heat of the action
[54:32] although that's a component it's off so
[54:35] I mean it's outside the action so can
[54:38] you guys cover that and then we'll try
[54:40] to roll that in for professionals so if
[54:42] you can to give them some actionable
[54:44] items but the whole idea what me and
[54:46] Keely are going to be talking about
[54:47] basically is and this is what breeds the
[54:49] whole Fellowship is when people ask me
[54:50] if I if I miss the military I say I miss
[54:53] the clowns I don't miss the circus so
[54:55] and that's what right and so that's the
[54:58] perfect segue to that's actually the cat
[55:00] that's the trebuchet into what I was
[55:02] going to say was that you know it you go
[55:05] through training and such and you know
[55:06] you make friends obviously through the
[55:08] training you kind of develop some sort
[55:09] of camaraderie but that trust doesn't
[55:11] really happen until
[55:12] you really get you know into the fleet
[55:15] and which is what the term you use when
[55:17] you actually you're done with your
[55:18] initial training and you're actually
[55:19] within the true unit and a couple
[55:22] corpsman buddies of mine and Marines
[55:24] half the time when we talk on the phone
[55:26] yeah I mean we talk about the love that
[55:28] we have with each other we're talking
[55:29] about the stuff that we did like you
[55:31] said off you know off the offset if you
[55:34] will and it was incredible to see how
[55:37] that trust was built within each other
[55:39] because you know yeah obviously mission
[55:41] mission but a submission of that is if
[55:44] you don't trust each other you can't
[55:45] even begin to plan for the actual
[55:47] Mission and so when you have guys even
[55:49] if it's just sitting around drinking 30
[55:52] racks of beer it's that camaraderie and
[55:55] just you know team building just within
[55:57] a what like a 20 by 20 room yeah and
[56:00] you're fitting 16 guys in there and
[56:02] we're all just sitting around talking
[56:03] shooting the [ __ ] talking about girls
[56:06] talking about home you know and but then
[56:08] you really get to see the character of
[56:09] who that person is outside of the you
[56:12] know the field because they're are
[56:13] plenty of times when Ben and I talk all
[56:14] the time where great Marine horrible
[56:17] dude yeah great Corman horrible dude
[56:19] great at his job but I wouldn't trust
[56:21] that dude as far as I could throw him if
[56:23] it came to something outside and that is
[56:24] where you saw that separation that
[56:26] applied to the mission when if you had
[56:28] that little bit of distrust if he was a
[56:30] good bad guy that causes that Split
[56:32] Second of hesitation which can get
[56:34] somebody killed right and that makes me
[56:35] think of that you know the with your
[56:37] quadrant when you you know the trust you
[56:39] know trust the soil and all that where
[56:41] you know there's there's even that
[56:42] potential where I trust you because I
[56:44] would there's guys where they weren't
[56:46] great at their job but I trusted him as
[56:47] a person to do the right thing so that's
[56:49] where that loyalty played in like it's
[56:51] not a negative thing that he wasn't
[56:53] great at his job but I trusted him I
[56:55] think when you brought up that was
[56:56] really interesting a key word I think
[56:58] the highest thing attainable in the
[56:59] trust is love I think I have a
[57:01] fellowship and eventually in the top
[57:04] part when it becomes a True Fellowship
[57:05] is love and then on the opposite end if
[57:07] you have like as much disloyalty and
[57:10] distrust as possible then it's Kate and
[57:12] I think those are probably the two
[57:13] extreme ends now that's not always gonna
[57:15] happen but and it's hard to happen but
[57:18] like the whole term it was a misery
[57:20] loves company that's usually when you
[57:22] get to love is when you're all
[57:24] overcoming something together or just
[57:26] going through something together even if
[57:27] you don't overcome it like something
[57:28] sometimes it's just we call it being in
[57:30] the sun and some and there's a term
[57:32] where we say it's like you just gotta
[57:34] learn to love to suck yeah you just got
[57:36] you just gotta sit in it and yeah yeah
[57:38] so like for a business the goal should
[57:40] be love you're always attaining the
[57:43] highest achievable thing it might not be
[57:45] feasible but you're always shooting for
[57:46] it like the Marine Corps is always
[57:47] shooting for Perfection we're never
[57:49] gonna get it though but we've been
[57:50] trying for 247 years we'll probably try
[57:52] for another 200 47 years but yeah so
[57:55] like if you can get as close to that
[57:56] love part of trust everything else will
[57:59] be like then that's how you get the
[58:01] organization the culture permeating
[58:03] through the whole organization and that
[58:04] is something that can start at the
[58:05] lowest level and actually almost has to
[58:07] well you look at it like I remember
[58:09] watching when they landed the Rover on
[58:11] Mars in 2018 one of the The Rovers it
[58:13] was I can't remember what why it was
[58:14] such an important thing I think was I
[58:16] don't know if it was the first one was
[58:17] it the first ever yeah Discovery and I'm
[58:20] watching it live and then talking about
[58:21] that love they're not a military
[58:22] organization they're you know they're
[58:24] private they're a business watching in
[58:27] their that love like you know because
[58:29] that word is really is ambiguous in the
[58:31] term of what love really means but if
[58:33] it's there intimacy intimacy and trust
[58:36] and loving the mission or loving right
[58:37] and when I remember watching when they
[58:40] landed it and we see it in movies but
[58:41] seeing it live when you're seeing
[58:43] everyone within that group they have one
[58:45] Mission and each person has their
[58:47] mission and when the mission was
[58:48] succeeded they're hugging they're
[58:50] cheering right it's like this is immense
[58:52] thing and I've seen that even in when I
[58:55] worked at Dairy Queen as a 15 year old
[58:58] on Golf Road when things were just done
[59:01] well and it was like you know hey nice
[59:02] job like we got out of work early
[59:03] because we did our job
[59:05] that's still a love with each other yeah
[59:08] that is so important in my experience I
[59:11] actually have a different intention a
[59:13] multiplier principle I refer to as
[59:15] alignment which the two axes are the
[59:18] mission of the organization versus the
[59:20] mission of the individual
[59:22] and when they're highly aligned you get
[59:24] what you're getting and NASA is one of
[59:26] those people that in the 70s in the
[59:28] Apollo program I'm going to do some more
[59:30] study of the more recent program so I
[59:32] can't comment but what I found is is the
[59:34] alignment between the individual Mission
[59:36] and the organizational commission are
[59:39] very high and that transfers or
[59:42] translates into a role that that is
[59:45] they're completely accepting and
[59:47] committing to so if we work that in as
[59:50] every role is handled with enthusiasm
[59:53] that we're talking about and then we go
[59:56] to the barracks and we create more
[59:59] Fellowship we end up with this intimacy
[01:00:01] because of this unbelievable trust and
[01:00:04] loyalty that people really have their
[01:00:06] roles and like we already talked about
[01:00:09] everybody on the team can trust their
[01:00:11] contribution to the result and once you
[01:00:13] can start getting that and that's
[01:00:14] powerful once you start it it snowballs
[01:00:17] in a good way but it can also say
[01:00:18] multiply yes
[01:00:24] you up the mission fires you up then
[01:00:27] your leader who has the decision-making
[01:00:29] Authority comes in makes the right call
[01:00:30] it just and it's sometimes a leader can
[01:00:33] make a bad decision or the wrong
[01:00:35] decision but having that fellowship and
[01:00:37] stuff can make the best out of that
[01:00:39] decision I mean that like in combat your
[01:00:41] plan A through Z is probably not going
[01:00:43] to work because Something's Gonna like
[01:00:44] Mike Tyson said Everybody's Got A Plan
[01:00:46] until they get punched in their mouth
[01:00:47] you might make a plan that wasn't the
[01:00:49] best choice in hindsight but your team
[01:00:51] when they have that kind of culture can
[01:00:54] make it just as good or if not better of
[01:00:56] an outcome just by having that aligned
[01:00:59] like the alignment a little sidebar on
[01:01:01] that one to bring it into the
[01:01:02] professional world would be leader makes
[01:01:04] a mistake in the middle okay military
[01:01:07] leader makes a mistake goes back into
[01:01:09] training asks for input procedures are
[01:01:12] changed we practice it now we're back on
[01:01:15] patrol our combat there's no more
[01:01:17] collaboration right right and you run it
[01:01:21] yeah
[01:01:21] that's another big differential I think
[01:01:24] in the private sector is there doesn't
[01:01:26] seem to be it certainly isn't everywhere
[01:01:28] there's exceptions to everything I say
[01:01:29] actually you can find them however yeah
[01:01:33] I think that that line is it's not even
[01:01:36] there it's like we can collaborate right
[01:01:38] up and into the action and I I'm also
[01:01:41] going to be I've already done some work
[01:01:43] and I'll be doing a podcast on the myth
[01:01:46] of collaboration too because not so much
[01:01:48] that it's bad in the way you guys talked
[01:01:50] about it the way the military uses it
[01:01:52] but it just it stays in the process too
[01:01:55] long yeah collaboration for
[01:01:57] collaboration and it's starting to
[01:01:58] become a synonym for leadership and
[01:02:00] that's not right no that's not right no
[01:02:02] not by itself you know that's why you
[01:02:04] have Sops right you know you have a like
[01:02:07] and I remember when I got to that
[01:02:08] standard operating procedure yeah
[01:02:11] but it's how you complete it might be a
[01:02:14] little different it's right the intent
[01:02:16] is to you know lift my phone up but with
[01:02:19] two hands and he still lifted the phone
[01:02:20] up because my intent was still with the
[01:02:22] phone right I got another thing with the
[01:02:24] Corman aspect too is that like not only
[01:02:25] is there an a combat medicine applicable
[01:02:27] but also when we're back in the rear or
[01:02:29] even just when we get back from Patrol
[01:02:30] and we have I think of an embarrassing
[01:02:33] put IVs and yeah but we have we're
[01:02:36] running a clinic
[01:02:37] yeah it is and oh god with that ball too
[01:02:40] I'll actually touched on that maybe but
[01:02:42] you know it was the reality of we have
[01:02:44] stuff that needs to be taken care of
[01:02:45] medical records vaccinations whatever it
[01:02:47] is medicine even just supplies and we
[01:02:49] would have an entire stack of Sops and
[01:02:53] when the collaboration needed to be done
[01:02:55] to set this standard operating procedure
[01:02:57] it was done the collaboration needed to
[01:02:59] be done to make sure that it was as
[01:03:00] efficient as possible and then you
[01:03:02] implement it and you execute yeah and
[01:03:05] then if you see somebody and that's like
[01:03:07] if the leader and a lot of times too
[01:03:09] like our leaders would do something and
[01:03:11] I loved I was fortunate with pretty good
[01:03:13] leadership that somebody on a lower you
[01:03:15] know the lower Spectrum goes I just
[01:03:17] don't think that's sufficient and they
[01:03:19] go all right well why and then they
[01:03:21] would present that and then that's when
[01:03:23] the collaboration is necessary and
[01:03:24] that's an excellent example too for the
[01:03:28] private sector we often get the this is
[01:03:30] an efficient but there's no suggestion
[01:03:32] behind it it becomes somebody else's
[01:03:34] responsibility all you're doing is
[01:03:36] pitching at that point
[01:03:37] I'll bring a solution you're just
[01:03:39] bitching and then another thing I was
[01:03:41] going to say is the biggest thing a
[01:03:42] leader can do sometimes is say I was
[01:03:44] wrong if you let your employees hear it
[01:03:46] you'll be amazed at how much that can
[01:03:48] improve the trust now that's not saying
[01:03:50] like I screw up every day and everything
[01:03:52] that's not like that but it's like you
[01:03:53] actually are wrong admitting that or or
[01:03:55] like what you said like saying like oh
[01:03:57] well how would you do it knowing when to
[01:03:59] be a Democratic leader when to be
[01:04:00] authoritarian that'll build so much
[01:04:02] trust because then it humanizes you then
[01:04:04] you're not just basically a bully that's
[01:04:06] a really good lead into one question
[01:04:07] before we got to cover dying on the hill
[01:04:09] and correct that for the professional
[01:04:11] world through your effort but so you
[01:04:14] talked about the good Marine bad dude
[01:04:16] what's the action plan is it role change
[01:04:20] is it the work Fellowship more how do
[01:04:23] you deal with that because you can't sit
[01:04:25] you hear the tales in the movies that
[01:04:27] you get shot in the back you feel like a
[01:04:29] mad enough dude yeah
[01:04:31] we don't want to talk about that no yeah
[01:04:34] but in the private sector if you have a
[01:04:36] bad dude good Marine we can fire
[01:04:38] somebody exactly well we can do the same
[01:04:40] thing almost because tell us about solo
[01:04:42] like but that's a reassigned role in the
[01:04:44] military correct but they're not going
[01:04:45] to be in a position to kill people or to
[01:04:47] get them killed so we could just have
[01:04:48] them not deploy it so there are you can
[01:04:51] like you'll be still in the Marine Corps
[01:04:52] it depends on like the severity of how
[01:04:54] bad a person is now if it's just like a
[01:04:55] bad attitude that can be corrected
[01:04:57] through just like leadership training
[01:04:59] and all that stuff but if they're just
[01:05:00] bad in their cancer to that point well
[01:05:02] then it's kind of like when we were
[01:05:04] saying before you have to put people in
[01:05:05] for the success and the success of the
[01:05:07] mission so why would you bring that guy
[01:05:08] you can leave him behind it I mean it
[01:05:10] gets to the point where they'll have a
[01:05:11] marine just paint rocks reporters like
[01:05:13] if they're that big of a liability so I
[01:05:15] have a hypothesis about these
[01:05:17] individuals and I really want you guys
[01:05:19] to rake it whether you agree or disagree
[01:05:21] totally honest I think people like that
[01:05:24] we talked about how do you do trust and
[01:05:27] loyalty they probably believe Less in
[01:05:29] themselves but they personally in my
[01:05:31] opinion aren't all in on the mission
[01:05:33] true and a lot of times in the Marine
[01:05:35] Corps what happens is
[01:05:37] they're getting better at it is like so
[01:05:39] a young Marine would get you know like
[01:05:41] an underage drinking and they'd give
[01:05:42] them enough paperwork where he his
[01:05:44] career screwed now for three years and
[01:05:46] so he just loses what does it matter if
[01:05:48] I can't go anywhere if you got to give
[01:05:50] people an opportunity to correct their
[01:05:52] mistakes otherwise then they just lose
[01:05:53] because then the mission doesn't matter
[01:05:54] to them and when a personal loyalty
[01:05:57] either yourself or does something else
[01:05:58] is greater than the mission that's when
[01:06:00] people we call it going internally don't
[01:06:02] care about anything but yourself and
[01:06:03] that's when people get selfish and
[01:06:05] that's at least in my experience when
[01:06:07] people don't have an opportunity then
[01:06:08] they get disgruntled to like put it
[01:06:10] right and that that perfectly says that
[01:06:12] the personal mission is clearly not
[01:06:15] aligned with the organizational Mission
[01:06:17] and and I think that there's just a
[01:06:20] tremendous amount of dysfunction out
[01:06:22] there in the professional private sector
[01:06:24] in that space and it can start with a
[01:06:28] person coming out of college you guys
[01:06:29] are going to graduate and taking a job
[01:06:31] because you need a job you got to pay
[01:06:32] bill yeah and all the saddest things
[01:06:34] when I hear that sometimes and you can
[01:06:36] you can get converted it and really care
[01:06:38] about the mission or and it becomes your
[01:06:41] personal mission too I really believe
[01:06:43] effort and Alignment in the mission
[01:06:45] fixes a tremendous amount of there are
[01:06:48] 15 other intensity multiplier principles
[01:06:50] that matter but in this particular one I
[01:06:52] think it's does that I think true yeah
[01:06:55] it's sport it's it's hard to it's
[01:06:57] because it's like if you get a guy like
[01:06:59] what you're saying that is just coming
[01:07:00] here for a job he's probably not going
[01:07:02] to stay there for a while anyway he's
[01:07:03] just looking for basically a stepping
[01:07:05] stone so there you go and you guys can't
[01:07:07] force people to sign up for your
[01:07:08] contract like I really am a believer you
[01:07:11] can't force intrinsic motivation at all
[01:07:14] all you can do is create the
[01:07:16] circumstances under which it can happen
[01:07:19] they have to want to be there they have
[01:07:21] to want to be there that's why they
[01:07:22] always leave the horse to water but you
[01:07:23] can't make a journey it's like we have a
[01:07:25] joke I have USMC tattooed on me it's you
[01:07:27] sign the [ __ ] contract so at
[01:07:28] some point everybody outside of like a
[01:07:31] military draft everybody wanted to be
[01:07:33] there at some point and that it
[01:07:34] reinforces it or like even when we're
[01:07:36] doing doing jumping jacks we'll go one
[01:07:38] two three four this is what we asked for
[01:07:40] and like something like that but like
[01:07:42] with sports it's kind of like you get I
[01:07:44] guess you could call it buy-in like to
[01:07:46] the team it's like if they're just there
[01:07:48] and they're just like kind of trying it
[01:07:50] out not saying a trial but like usually
[01:07:52] those people like you said they might be
[01:07:54] converted but they might not but those
[01:07:56] are I would say when you have a
[01:07:58] long-standing organization or like a
[01:08:00] team that it's you're working towards
[01:08:01] something that takes multiple years
[01:08:02] those guys are going to always fall
[01:08:04] through the cracks and be in the
[01:08:05] organization at some point anyway and
[01:08:07] there's honestly not a lot to do with
[01:08:09] them except to you always got to give
[01:08:10] them the opportunity to succeed like
[01:08:12] others but at a certain point it's
[01:08:14] almost kind of like you can only do so
[01:08:15] much for them and then they're going to
[01:08:16] make their own decision to not be a part
[01:08:18] of it and I think the biggest thing a
[01:08:20] leader can do in the business world or
[01:08:21] Sports is identifying those people as
[01:08:23] quickly as possible you know there's a
[01:08:25] intensity multiplier principle I call
[01:08:27] toughness and the two components are
[01:08:29] force and pain I absolutely love it I
[01:08:32] get smarter you get stronger well
[01:08:33] there's a fellow I hope to get on one of
[01:08:35] the podcasts about that who's said in
[01:08:37] this I don't think he's the one that
[01:08:39] originated this but you have to be tough
[01:08:40] before you're good oh I paraphrase what
[01:08:43] you said that I think is actionable in
[01:08:45] the private sector is you need to get
[01:08:48] your team members the individuals to
[01:08:50] respond to the force the force is
[01:08:53] different things you could lose an
[01:08:54] employee you could have a competitive
[01:08:56] thrust you could have a customer
[01:08:57] complaint my guide in the safety
[01:09:00] situation it could have a lost time or a
[01:09:02] fatality those are forces on a business
[01:09:04] that cause emotional spiritual and
[01:09:07] physical pain if it's if we react in
[01:09:10] other words the freak out there's a
[01:09:12] great book it's called do hard things by
[01:09:15] Steve Angus I'd highly recommend it he
[01:09:17] covers it I don't think it's complete I
[01:09:19] love reading books that kind of support
[01:09:21] he supports on the force end and he
[01:09:23] talks a lot about the difference between
[01:09:25] learning how to rather than react you
[01:09:28] respond and when I listen to you guys
[01:09:30] it's just going through my mind I mean
[01:09:32] you are tough because you don't freak
[01:09:35] out it's and come
[01:09:38] is the best way to breed it because we
[01:09:40] call what we call Cooper's color code
[01:09:41] deliberate practice you deliberate
[01:09:44] practice because it builds confidence if
[01:09:45] you're confident you're tough You're
[01:09:46] Building mental toughness but you're
[01:09:49] might be failing a little along the way
[01:09:50] but you're succeeding in the end and we
[01:09:52] call it Cooper's color code when a
[01:09:54] situation happens when you're just like
[01:09:55] on a patrol and you're just walking or
[01:09:57] if you're just if we're just sitting
[01:09:58] here we're all in what's called Cooper
[01:10:00] colors called White nothing's going
[01:10:01] wrong you know everything's all
[01:10:03] hunky-dory the yellow is like if you're
[01:10:05] walking around at night you're just a
[01:10:06] little more aware orange is where we
[01:10:08] want the Marines to be in combat you are
[01:10:10] aware of everything that's going on but
[01:10:11] you're responding and you are doing what
[01:10:13] you're trying to do because when they
[01:10:15] say like Marines are robotic it's
[01:10:16] because we have instant obedience to
[01:10:18] orders and we have what we call IA
[01:10:20] drills immediate action drills something
[01:10:22] happens it might not be the right
[01:10:23] decision but a decision is better than
[01:10:25] no decision and you're immediately
[01:10:26] acting towards it and your training will
[01:10:28] give you confidence to get through the
[01:10:30] bad things like any if it's a complaint
[01:10:31] or whatever you always have a Baseline
[01:10:33] and that'll give people confidence and
[01:10:35] then Cooper's Color Code Black is when
[01:10:37] you're just reacting it's when you just
[01:10:38] go internal and you're freaking out and
[01:10:40] then you're not so maybe let's burn
[01:10:42] right and then you're just a fight or
[01:10:43] flight then you're saying with no
[01:10:45] thought and then you're just a liability
[01:10:47] to yourself and others and you're just
[01:10:48] you're going a little bit shut down that
[01:10:50] was with with medicine that was one of
[01:10:51] the times I saw that full black
[01:10:54] situation where we had a mass cast come
[01:10:57] in this guy was our he was our leader he
[01:10:59] was a head medic Army medic and he's
[01:11:01] never really dealt with something of
[01:11:03] that dude and they bring in these casual
[01:11:05] these dudes are just absolutely [ __ ]
[01:11:07] up and seen the photos I mean dudes are
[01:11:08] missing limbs everything and he froze
[01:11:11] and because I was in Orange which was at
[01:11:14] I literally Spartan kicked him in the
[01:11:17] chest out of the way and then started
[01:11:19] directing the only reason that that ever
[01:11:21] happened was because my leadership made
[01:11:24] sure that I was put in trainings and
[01:11:26] Reps that I knew if [ __ ] goes down I'm
[01:11:30] not reacting I'm ready to respond so I
[01:11:33] saw that he's failing his mission right
[01:11:34] now I'm going to take I like and I I
[01:11:37] have to take the home like you know if
[01:11:38] you're if you as a CEO what happens at
[01:11:40] the CEO is not there somebody's got to
[01:11:41] be ready to take the reins and that's
[01:11:43] leadership of training that person below
[01:11:45] you so I had that leadership teach me
[01:11:47] that so that when it happened it no one
[01:11:49] even noticed until after it happened
[01:11:51] against Community Conference because
[01:11:53] like Keely might not have known like
[01:11:54] because every medical situation is
[01:11:56] different like what he's saying is he
[01:11:57] has a baseline to start out with he was
[01:11:59] responding and then he can go back to
[01:12:01] his training he might not know like oh
[01:12:02] yeah I know exactly what to do for every
[01:12:04] 100 of things but he has an idea and he
[01:12:07] can make better decisions than he can at
[01:12:09] that point collaborate oh hey this Doc's
[01:12:11] better at this come over here help me
[01:12:13] when you have a Baseline and you have
[01:12:15] just an immediate response what we do is
[01:12:18] we turn to we call it contact we turn we
[01:12:20] get down and we start buddy rushing
[01:12:22] forward so you at least no matter what
[01:12:23] happens you don't really know what
[01:12:25] you're doing in the time but you are at
[01:12:27] least on a baseline And if you can just
[01:12:29] take that second we call it like a
[01:12:30] tactical pause that will get you through
[01:12:32] everything because the worst is when
[01:12:34] something instantly happens that's when
[01:12:35] people freak out but if you have
[01:12:37] basically our immediate action girls are
[01:12:39] to combat the freakout if we can just
[01:12:42] think about and train about turn towards
[01:12:44] it get down and then start moving
[01:12:46] forward that happens before all others
[01:12:48] any other action before you even have to
[01:12:49] think and that usually is good enough to
[01:12:52] defeat the Meltdown and yeah cognitive
[01:12:54] and it's your amygdala firing and it
[01:12:57] shuts off your frontal lobe something
[01:12:58] for leaders to pay attention to like
[01:13:00] when Keely saw that guy because I've
[01:13:01] seen it too it can happen to a person
[01:13:03] that's been in that situation too it's
[01:13:05] hard to predict and that's on the combat
[01:13:07] side but usually when it does happen
[01:13:09] it's either something something wasn't
[01:13:12] prepared for or they've been in
[01:13:13] something for too long yeah it's usually
[01:13:15] not the intensity it's the unexpected or
[01:13:18] the duration yeah so bringing this all
[01:13:20] back to fellowship and again for the
[01:13:22] private sector I even clearly deliberate
[01:13:25] practice is very important and the fact
[01:13:28] that you create situations where
[01:13:30] actually Force failure you know fail in
[01:13:33] a place where the consequence is lower
[01:13:35] I'm not really a fan of a safe place
[01:13:37] because what we want to do is using that
[01:13:40] term is we want to know that even though
[01:13:42] we make a mistake it's assimilation it's
[01:13:45] a practice it's training so that we can
[01:13:48] correct the situation there and I think
[01:13:51] the human animal in general you just
[01:13:53] have to get used to responding and to
[01:13:56] knock back that fire of of hormones that
[01:13:59] brings in fight or flight so that you
[01:14:02] can respond and you know I think you
[01:14:04] have to go through it and so for a good
[01:14:06] example that we're just now starting to
[01:14:09] do is our we're very technical people we
[01:14:11] don't come out of our undergraduate
[01:14:13] Graduate Studies in my company as sales
[01:14:17] people in the classic sense so in that
[01:14:20] situation even picking up the phone
[01:14:22] standing in front of people you know the
[01:14:24] old cliche of being afraid to give
[01:14:27] presentations which is true for most of
[01:14:29] us at least since the beginning in
[01:14:31] America yeah at least at the beginning
[01:14:33] fires that cognitive dissident so his
[01:14:36] very important then to incorporate
[01:14:39] deliberate practice for your sales team
[01:14:41] so they can get over that and reach a
[01:14:43] point where they're comfortable and when
[01:14:44] I look at our staff we definitely have
[01:14:46] resources who are nicely down that curve
[01:14:49] and others that are starting but they'll
[01:14:50] all get there yeah and now we can Circle
[01:14:53] all the way back into Fellowship trust
[01:14:55] and loyalty get super powerful when not
[01:14:58] the commander slash leader whoever says
[01:15:01] it but a peer says hey this works that's
[01:15:04] again a multiplying effect so this is a
[01:15:06] way to bring it back so I encourage
[01:15:08] listeners to figure out how to training
[01:15:11] but use the concept of deliberate
[01:15:13] practice think like these military guys
[01:15:16] as far as bringing that in I mean you
[01:15:18] can make a positive difference and
[01:15:19] speaking of encouragement encourage the
[01:15:22] failure always remind them to that we're
[01:15:24] doing it now so you don't do it when it
[01:15:26] matters there you go because you
[01:15:28] encourage that failure because then they
[01:15:30] get confident like oh I make a mistake
[01:15:31] but this worked last time so I'll do it
[01:15:33] this time they get a little better and
[01:15:34] better encourage that failure and that
[01:15:36] let them know that it's okay to like
[01:15:38] what you said making mistakes and it
[01:15:40] builds trust in the leadership because
[01:15:41] they see that their leaders there with
[01:15:43] them the entire way and they're not
[01:15:45] abandoning them that they screwed up
[01:15:47] once because then you're not gonna get
[01:15:49] anywhere but yeah encourage the failure
[01:15:50] because then they'll be more confident
[01:15:52] to respond to something sure because
[01:15:55] they're not afraid of usually it comes
[01:15:57] down to a fear of failure failure not
[01:15:58] making mistake and that's what sends
[01:16:00] people to freak out yeah absolutely
[01:16:02] absolutely false we can learn learn to
[01:16:04] pick ourselves back up exactly if you
[01:16:06] never let them fall and they're afraid
[01:16:08] of falling then they're never going to
[01:16:09] learn how to what happens when you do
[01:16:10] fall right right okay we're gonna talk
[01:16:13] about this die on the hill thing my
[01:16:16] personal experience being out there in
[01:16:18] the professional world I hear
[01:16:19] Consultants I hear trainers I've read it
[01:16:22] in the books I even maybe in Hollywood
[01:16:24] here and there where there's this trying
[01:16:27] to use the analogy of the military
[01:16:31] in that the whole issue is trying to
[01:16:34] bring out is the fact that you don't
[01:16:36] leave your buddy on the hill or you'll
[01:16:39] die for your buddy helping them off the
[01:16:41] hill there's so much not covered when
[01:16:43] they use that I think they've created
[01:16:45] dysfunction and frankly not made the
[01:16:49] whole Vision in our visual in somebody's
[01:16:51] mind as productive as it could be so I'd
[01:16:54] like you two to help us all of us out
[01:16:56] here in the private sector fix this in
[01:16:59] light of what we're talking about in
[01:17:00] loyalty and Trust in the concept of
[01:17:03] Fellowship because I think it has more
[01:17:05] personally my hypothesis is that it has
[01:17:08] more to do with Fellowship trust and
[01:17:09] loyalty than it does with anything else
[01:17:13] including maybe even the leadership so
[01:17:15] I'd love to hear but let's dissect that
[01:17:18] a little bit and correct it in a few
[01:17:20] minutes here if we could absolutely so
[01:17:21] what I've heard in the past is the
[01:17:25] misuse in my opinion of the analogy of a
[01:17:29] significant issue happening in business
[01:17:31] that takes whatever attribute capability
[01:17:35] competence commitment accountability
[01:17:37] beings well that's like military guys
[01:17:40] dying for each other on the hill or
[01:17:42] we're trying to take the hill and so
[01:17:44] they're using a military analogy to try
[01:17:47] to rally a team they're trying to pull
[01:17:49] similarities into some kind of an
[01:17:52] initiative to motivate people
[01:17:54] intrinsically to do something
[01:17:56] professionally and I just think there's
[01:17:58] a huge gap that never gets filled there
[01:18:01] I think it's misuse used quite often
[01:18:05] because my hypothesis is I think it has
[01:18:07] more to do with this Fellowship trust
[01:18:09] and loyalty than it does with anything
[01:18:12] else maybe the best way to say it is the
[01:18:14] mission changes in the mission that
[01:18:16] example and when I do the Apollo 13
[01:18:18] podcast that's pretty obvious is the
[01:18:21] mission change in the mission and they
[01:18:23] had to get three guys home on instead
[01:18:25] with no air no pot instead of die on the
[01:18:27] hill tell them Semper Gumby yeah I
[01:18:30] always always be flexible Semper Gumby
[01:18:32] okay and that's because the mission
[01:18:34] changes within the mission that's why
[01:18:36] the Marine Corps promotes small unit
[01:18:38] leadership because we don't need a
[01:18:40] general to tell us what to do I could
[01:18:42] make a decision perfect and that's based
[01:18:44] off confidence but then what I was going
[01:18:45] to say is that Fellowship thing it's
[01:18:48] like symbiotics do you know what the
[01:18:49] term center of gravity is oh yeah so
[01:18:51] it's Von Claus would set it in his book
[01:18:54] on war he basically said it's where the
[01:18:56] enemy has their biggest strengths or
[01:18:58] like it could be their communication
[01:18:59] lines or supply lines and that's where
[01:19:01] we mask our attack for a business I
[01:19:03] guess a spree decor would be a good term
[01:19:05] that the culture make that your center
[01:19:07] of gravity because then the other things
[01:19:10] will follow through because then you
[01:19:11] won't even have to preach them to die on
[01:19:13] the hill because if they already have
[01:19:14] that culture they're going to do it like
[01:19:16] what you were saying before about the
[01:19:17] alignment if it's gotten to the point of
[01:19:19] true alignment they'll die on a hill
[01:19:20] when something changes in the mission or
[01:19:23] not they'll do the right thing when it's
[01:19:24] the right reason at the right time
[01:19:26] because everything's aligned and it
[01:19:28] takes that culture at the bottom to
[01:19:29] build up to those actions you don't just
[01:19:31] get a new guy that just enlisted and he
[01:19:34] hasn't even gone to boot camp and go die
[01:19:35] in a hill but then after building him up
[01:19:37] but then they will figuratively or
[01:19:40] literally go take the hill and part of
[01:19:42] me thinks that in the Marine Corps does
[01:19:44] it too it's like oh you know go take the
[01:19:46] Hill die on the hill some of that's just
[01:19:47] jargon and that sometimes might just
[01:19:49] come out of people being lazy and not
[01:19:51] fleshing out what they actually mean
[01:19:53] because if you give them a clear-cut
[01:19:55] like let's go do this you could say take
[01:19:56] the hill or you could say let's go do
[01:19:58] this and it's at least that's my opinion
[01:20:00] but yeah take the hill I think they have
[01:20:03] been originated back with the Art of War
[01:20:05] right The High Ground you have in
[01:20:07] advance yeah so it's harder to take the
[01:20:09] hill and so they're trying to say
[01:20:11] difficult Mission well and it's you know
[01:20:14] it really isn't it's really especially
[01:20:16] like on a business aspect it's not
[01:20:17] feasible to have a company that is
[01:20:20] willing to sacrifice its employees and
[01:20:24] they're even like their moral standards
[01:20:26] just to complete the mission how many
[01:20:28] times you know how many missions does a
[01:20:30] company have a day that can change in a
[01:20:32] phone call and in the military I mean
[01:20:34] there you know he was regarded as this
[01:20:36] you know amazing lead chesty puller but
[01:20:40] he was not they don't talk about the
[01:20:42] fact that he said he was willing to
[01:20:43] trade in he was willing to trade in a
[01:20:45] sea bag of dog tags for a medal of honor
[01:20:47] he was fully believing and died on the
[01:20:51] hill and he was willing as long as he
[01:20:52] admission was completed he didn't care
[01:20:54] how it happened and that or it had to be
[01:20:56] done and he didn't care what was lost in
[01:20:59] that and to me that was terrifying to
[01:21:02] think like this guy is like because he
[01:21:04] was revered as this incredible person
[01:21:05] but you know and it's not and to me
[01:21:07] that's not a good leader whereas that
[01:21:09] you apply that to the business aspect of
[01:21:11] you know being able to say all right
[01:21:13] well okay we come to this we have a
[01:21:15] mission something happened like you said
[01:21:17] with the Apollo like right now you know
[01:21:18] the original Mission was getting them
[01:21:20] you know home safe and sound
[01:21:21] everything's good to go boom technical
[01:21:24] failures happen What do we do yeah and
[01:21:26] that's where the training comes in the
[01:21:28] confidence and then what do they call
[01:21:29] them okay
[01:21:30] yeah it's basically like as a leader if
[01:21:33] something happens and this is why
[01:21:35] leadership should be ingrained through
[01:21:36] the whole culture because then like you
[01:21:38] don't have to be there to make the
[01:21:39] decision of somebody's like okay what's
[01:21:41] the situation and how can we handle it
[01:21:42] with the least amount of loss to
[01:21:44] resources or people or whatever you
[01:21:46] don't want to lose like basically
[01:21:48] minimize the negatives maximize the
[01:21:49] positives even even if there's going to
[01:21:51] be a lot of shooting negatives and you
[01:21:53] know it's just let's do the best thing
[01:21:54] possible and sometimes it does come down
[01:21:56] to it's not feasible or just worth it to
[01:21:59] try it whatever because it's going to be
[01:22:01] too much of a detriment but yeah I think
[01:22:03] again like with the whole die on the
[01:22:04] hill I think the fellowship is if you
[01:22:06] truly have a fellowship of workers or
[01:22:08] Fellowship of teammates or whatever the
[01:22:10] dying on the hill is going to come
[01:22:11] secondary they're going to do that
[01:22:12] anyway because of their alignment and
[01:22:15] they're really care about the mission
[01:22:15] and they believe it and yeah and then
[01:22:17] they care about the other people
[01:22:18] contributing to the mission I think that
[01:22:20] if you have to tell people to go take
[01:22:22] the hill then you're just telling people
[01:22:23] rotate the hill if you're telling people
[01:22:25] that our mission is this they're going
[01:22:27] to be taking that hill in the process of
[01:22:29] the greater Mission so it's I think and
[01:22:31] they understand they see why yes they
[01:22:34] yeah and they also have the capacity and
[01:22:36] the competencies to correctly be
[01:22:39] successful they'll trust themselves that
[01:22:40] they and that's that they can't like oh
[01:22:43] like Paul said go take the hill well
[01:22:45] yeah we can totally do it let's do it
[01:22:46] this way and that's why if the culture
[01:22:48] is there they'll figure out themselves
[01:22:50] they'll almost be excited to do it
[01:22:52] because they'll know that they're
[01:22:53] competent only it all comes back down to
[01:22:55] that trust aspect because you know
[01:22:57] especially being loyal loyal to the
[01:22:58] mission loyal to each other and then
[01:23:00] loyal to the leaders you know direction
[01:23:02] if they trust you they will be loyal you
[01:23:05] know and hopefully they will be loyal to
[01:23:07] what you know the idea like the end goal
[01:23:09] is so if the leader then shows that
[01:23:12] trust back to them saying this needs to
[01:23:14] be done I trust you guys to get it done
[01:23:15] and actually I'm saying and actually
[01:23:18] saying that I mean the amount of times
[01:23:20] that in the not in the civilian world
[01:23:22] where I've not heard that and you watch
[01:23:24] just the degradation of you know spree
[01:23:27] decor no one cares about business like
[01:23:29] oh well it's the smaller things that
[01:23:31] lead to that like yeah like you said
[01:23:33] like like trust you guys do that you can
[01:23:34] say something small is like oh I trust
[01:23:35] you peely to go to that it's amazing how
[01:23:37] much that will just change somebody's
[01:23:39] Outlook because then they feel a sense
[01:23:40] of ownership in the mission instead of
[01:23:42] just well I'm just told to do this and I
[01:23:44] have to go do it no it's like you are
[01:23:45] relying on me to go get this done
[01:23:47] General James Mattis said true
[01:23:49] leadership is when
[01:23:51] people under you fight with a cheerful
[01:23:53] or happy heart if they trust you enough
[01:23:55] where they're they are eager to do
[01:23:57] whatever you want them to do because
[01:23:58] they trust that you are setting them up
[01:24:00] for success and that they can do it yeah
[01:24:02] well yeah let's go one component Mattis
[01:24:04] is referring to is in fact Fellowship
[01:24:07] yeah because that's presents not the
[01:24:09] only one of course but it's present and
[01:24:12] I yeah go ahead no it was just with like
[01:24:15] and being with snipers too like that was
[01:24:16] even more zoomed in on when they tell a
[01:24:20] team all right you need to be you need
[01:24:23] to take like you need to get up in this
[01:24:24] mountain nine times out of ten we're
[01:24:26] getting inserted at the base of it so
[01:24:27] now we've got a four hour hike up
[01:24:29] mountain with you know 100 plus pounds
[01:24:30] of gear wants to do the sexy stuff until
[01:24:32] they find out how to get sexy I would
[01:24:34] just it's yeah but it starts to put
[01:24:36] myself in you right and
[01:24:42] establish a hide provides surveillance
[01:24:45] Target acquisition which is why they
[01:24:46] call it Stapleton sta surveillance
[01:24:49] Target acquisition
[01:24:53] most people don't think like that okay
[01:24:55] yeah but you know it's it really you
[01:24:58] know because then that mission was set
[01:24:59] but we were told by blamberg being you
[01:25:02] know our commanding officer and then our
[01:25:04] Battalion Colonel who's the big the big
[01:25:07] cheese I trust you guys to get this done
[01:25:09] we gave him what we our plan was and he
[01:25:12] goes trust to get it done and we had you
[01:25:14] know a through z and because we believed
[01:25:16] in the mission and what needed to be
[01:25:18] done but we also believed in ourselves
[01:25:19] to get it done the amount of laughing
[01:25:22] and just like small giggling at night
[01:25:23] like under dark that we were just yeah
[01:25:25] it sucked hiking that but we are so
[01:25:28] excited to get up to our position get
[01:25:30] settled in because at the end of time
[01:25:32] and I told Ben about this there was a
[01:25:34] one specific exercise that no Battalion
[01:25:37] has actually completed because it just
[01:25:40] so many working parts needed happened
[01:25:42] but because our platoon believed in the
[01:25:45] mission and made it happen with just our
[01:25:47] end it promoted the other missions that
[01:25:50] needed to be happening so that when it
[01:25:53] got done we get done to our Ender and
[01:25:55] our index
[01:25:56] and we do our debrief and they went I
[01:25:58] cannot believe that you guys did this
[01:26:00] and our flamber goes yeah I had no doubt
[01:26:02] and it wasn't him saying I knew what I
[01:26:05] was doing he went I had no doubt on my
[01:26:07] guys yeah it was a it was a comp another
[01:26:09] thing
[01:26:12] you have to acknowledge like the people
[01:26:14] under YouTube but like also it's not
[01:26:15] like every you can be totally aligned
[01:26:17] with like the macro Mission but there's
[01:26:19] gonna be a day-to-day stuff and you're
[01:26:20] just not totally aligned with like you
[01:26:21] just might have a bad day and you're
[01:26:23] like screw this but and as a leader when
[01:26:26] you give an order where like it's like
[01:26:28] go clean your room it's yeah it's just
[01:26:30] gonna suck you have to acknowledge that
[01:26:31] to them like hey guys I know it sucks or
[01:26:33] and then you don't have to every time
[01:26:35] but if they see you doing the dirty work
[01:26:36] with them sometimes that helps but if
[01:26:38] you just acknowledge that it's gonna
[01:26:40] suck and then acknowledge that when they
[01:26:41] complete it that they did a good job and
[01:26:43] that they did it together that's pretty
[01:26:45] much all people under you can ask for as
[01:26:47] long as it's an acknowledgment authentic
[01:26:50] not bowling no yeah yeah don't yeah
[01:26:52] don't show the appropriate amount of
[01:26:54] acknowledgment for the job and yeah yeah
[01:26:56] I know when you're you're going up to a
[01:26:58] hill to be a sniper versus cleaning your
[01:27:00] room but both very important but that
[01:27:02] particular Commander would have a
[01:27:04] different right but accurately assess
[01:27:06] what they're going into and what they
[01:27:07] did well and that was my first time Paul
[01:27:09] really being put into that leadership
[01:27:11] role was again great example my leader
[01:27:14] was actually taking care of something
[01:27:16] with his family and his babies being
[01:27:17] born so they went to your admission
[01:27:20] interesting Mission yeah and we had to
[01:27:23] do this whole big thing where we had to
[01:27:24] go through medical records and because
[01:27:26] it gets checked like a full team goes
[01:27:28] through it anyway and we have within a
[01:27:30] company you know hundreds and hundreds
[01:27:32] of medical records to go through and it
[01:27:34] takes forever and I got thrown into that
[01:27:37] leadership position like all right kids
[01:27:38] might get it done it needs to be done by
[01:27:41] this time tomorrow get it done and he
[01:27:44] gave me you know two days and I looked
[01:27:45] my and I sat there thought about it I'm
[01:27:47] like all right realistically we could
[01:27:49] Hammer this out it's gonna be a late
[01:27:50] night but the end of the day we're gonna
[01:27:52] be done and we don't have to worry about
[01:27:53] it and I brought up to my boys and like
[01:27:55] you said about appropriate
[01:27:56] acknowledgment of it it's gonna suck I
[01:27:59] went in there and flamber had told me if
[01:28:01] you know it's gonna suck be there with
[01:28:03] them doing it or at least you know like
[01:28:05] you're part of it they see Faith show
[01:28:06] facing it I went up to the boys and I
[01:28:08] said hey guys so we got records my plan
[01:28:10] is that we're just going to finish it
[01:28:11] out we're probably gonna be here until
[01:28:12] about nine o'clock 10 o'clock at night
[01:28:14] but once we get these records done we're
[01:28:15] done
[01:28:21] all right good to go let's do it and
[01:28:23] next you know and by the time it was
[01:28:26] this like amazing thing for me like my
[01:28:28] true first like administrative
[01:28:30] leadership role versus like dude I could
[01:28:32] do it easily with medical stuff but like
[01:28:33] doing it like nice [ __ ] paperwork
[01:28:36] yeah and seeing the guys were sitting
[01:28:38] there laughing poking and joking but
[01:28:40] we're cranking out stuff making sure
[01:28:41] it's like by government laws perfect and
[01:28:45] I'm just cranking everything out we're
[01:28:47] the only company to get done so then the
[01:28:49] next morning they're like all right so
[01:28:51] like how much you got left and yeah
[01:28:52] we're done and what Kira did is what I
[01:28:54] was saying before he said this is where
[01:28:55] we are this is what needs to happen and
[01:28:57] this is what's in it for you so like we
[01:29:00] have these records they need to be done
[01:29:01] that will be off and there'll be nothing
[01:29:03] left as long as that's it I mean that's
[01:29:05] literally all people establishing yeah
[01:29:07] you just give tell people what you want
[01:29:09] them to do and how to do it and then
[01:29:11] tell them that you appreciated their
[01:29:13] work when it's done our significant the
[01:29:15] job is because it's like when we talk
[01:29:16] about Mission he would have handled that
[01:29:17] the same way as he would something in
[01:29:20] combat which it so it applies to the
[01:29:22] whole thing because people don't like to
[01:29:24] be bullshitted no matter the stakes and
[01:29:25] they don't like to and then they like to
[01:29:27] be acknowledged no matter those things
[01:29:28] so we bring this those are excellent
[01:29:30] comments we bring back to fellowship
[01:29:32] again and Diana Hill versus take the
[01:29:34] hill used appropriately you know makes
[01:29:37] more sense to me when there is a first
[01:29:41] of all Fellowship is a foundational
[01:29:43] principle that allows you to make a
[01:29:45] change in the mission you know a new
[01:29:47] Mission within a mission so die on the
[01:29:49] hill is different than take the hill I
[01:29:51] would recommend to the world and with
[01:29:53] your guys approval is absolutely is take
[01:29:56] the hill means something like your admin
[01:29:58] job where you're trained to be a medic
[01:30:00] and now we have competencies we have a
[01:30:03] team we trust each other we do the best
[01:30:05] we can we execute we're done die on the
[01:30:08] hill to be in the private Specter so
[01:30:10] that's something different I don't
[01:30:12] normally do right that I'm asked to do
[01:30:14] but I understand how it fits the mission
[01:30:16] die on the hill together
[01:30:18] this is where this is our standard
[01:30:20] that's where we cut it off and you will
[01:30:22] not do anything but this and so the
[01:30:24] leader you're talking about that would
[01:30:26] you know count dog tags instead of
[01:30:28] rather have a metal is sometimes
[01:30:30] appropriate for the situation correct
[01:30:32] correct like I in my mind I'm thinking
[01:30:35] those guys that one on D-Day you know
[01:30:36] the first boat that whatever those
[01:30:38] amphibious machines were in their crops
[01:30:40] yeah 100 absolutely right in my world
[01:30:42] it's critical path yeah so the critical
[01:30:46] path means we have to find a way and you
[01:30:49] guys are very nicely recommending I mean
[01:30:52] very effectively recommend in nicely
[01:30:54] recommending that you utilize the team
[01:30:57] to get that done you make decisions
[01:30:59] you're trained and you're trusting that
[01:31:02] if you're the one asked to die in the
[01:31:04] hill means it's critical path it doesn't
[01:31:06] mean die on the hill yeah no it means
[01:31:09] you're gonna you're standing until the
[01:31:11] objective is
[01:31:12] and that's so and I think some I mean
[01:31:15] tall fairness up out there for the
[01:31:17] professional world I do think it's been
[01:31:18] used this way before but right it
[01:31:20] typically I've used it too much in terms
[01:31:22] of leadership where the leadership in
[01:31:25] the unit that has to take the hill or
[01:31:27] die on the hill definitely it is going
[01:31:30] to have leadership attributes but in
[01:31:33] terms of a macro it's within the mission
[01:31:36] it's when the mission changes are you
[01:31:38] asked to do something that's up
[01:31:39] typically outside your responsibility I
[01:31:41] think it's a good way to put because
[01:31:42] that makes sense
[01:31:44] it's like when die on the hill means
[01:31:47] like for leadership it should be like
[01:31:48] anything but this is just simply not
[01:31:51] going to happen it's just not what your
[01:31:52] mission is it's not the standard you
[01:31:53] were going to it's either we're going to
[01:31:55] complete it or we will die on this hill
[01:31:57] either we're going to like when you said
[01:31:59] like like a critical path or like if
[01:32:01] there's like a technological failure the
[01:32:03] hill to die on is the problem and to die
[01:32:06] in the whole means either it's complete
[01:32:08] failure or you completed yes so and I
[01:32:10] I'm after I think in that case die on
[01:32:14] the hill I think Fellowship is a key
[01:32:16] component if I had three units three
[01:32:18] departments three groups of four people
[01:32:20] yeah you got Karen up the guy on a hill
[01:32:22] well that for sure remember we said
[01:32:24] that's from alignment I would pick the
[01:32:26] one that fellowship's really strong
[01:32:28] that's what I meant you have to have the
[01:32:30] trust the loyalty is just off the charts
[01:32:32] all our SQL I'm gonna pick the one that
[01:32:34] oh 100 the fellowship is way up there
[01:32:36] because I know they can communicate they
[01:32:38] can work together they're going to
[01:32:40] follow all the training they're going to
[01:32:42] respect the decision-making authority of
[01:32:45] the leadership does that make sense
[01:32:47] that's where I wanted I mean how easy is
[01:32:49] it for you as a leader within your
[01:32:51] organization of when you make that call
[01:32:54] that is promoting the fellowship and
[01:32:57] they I mean how many times have you seen
[01:33:00] it where they not only hit the mark but
[01:33:02] they actually exceeded them
[01:33:04] and it makes it easier I mean I did it
[01:33:07] for me in the military in other just
[01:33:10] jobs that I've done where it makes it
[01:33:12] easy and in my thought process is if you
[01:33:15] want to be the boss wouldn't it be nice
[01:33:17] to make it easy when it's like yeah this
[01:33:19] is easy being the boss with the team
[01:33:21] that I have because we've created such a
[01:33:23] fellowship that now the hard stuff
[01:33:25] that's that's almost fun and they don't
[01:33:27] even have to be told you don't have to
[01:33:29] tell them that's key yeah yeah it's
[01:33:31] because
[01:33:32] their own intrinsic initiative they want
[01:33:35] to do it because they know because it's
[01:33:37] the hill we're dying on they know it's
[01:33:38] right and they they agree with it and
[01:33:40] they believe it and then they believe in
[01:33:41] themselves and the people with them it's
[01:33:43] basically saying they don't care how it
[01:33:45] happens but we're gonna get that and
[01:33:46] we're gonna and that's hard to get to
[01:33:48] that level of Fellowship but once you
[01:33:50] have a fellowship it's like Lord of the
[01:33:52] Rings the bonds are not equally very
[01:33:54] easily broken and so it's once you have
[01:33:56] a fellowship almost don't touch like let
[01:33:58] them go and let them teach others
[01:34:00] because yeah it's like wanting the ball
[01:34:02] it's like wanting to be the team on the
[01:34:04] field in a critical situation like
[01:34:06] hockey you have lines you want to be the
[01:34:08] line on there and that's why
[01:34:09] conversation is good in the company and
[01:34:11] those groups of your your foreign
[01:34:16] Again by the team fire team so four fire
[01:34:18] teams they're all wanting it yep right
[01:34:21] they're all wanting it and but then the
[01:34:23] ones that don't get it don't mope and
[01:34:25] are pissed off because the one got it
[01:34:27] because they probably all know why oh
[01:34:29] that was I mean and so that it
[01:34:31] identifies a skill Gap that they train
[01:34:34] for to fill so they get the mission next
[01:34:36] time they want you is that correct they
[01:34:38] want you to be constructively that was
[01:34:39] yeah don't be pissed off but it'll be
[01:34:42] like if you want it to be better well
[01:34:45] that was well don't be sorry be better
[01:34:46] with my there you go with my regular
[01:34:48] person nice quote man okay that's
[01:34:50] awesome my regular platoon that exact
[01:34:52] thing happened we you know we trained
[01:34:54] and trained because we had seniors that
[01:34:56] gave a [ __ ] and they didn't grind us
[01:34:58] down and make us train when it wasn't
[01:34:59] you know feasible because I had an
[01:35:01] important like that and there was no
[01:35:03] Fellowship we didn't give a [ __ ] but
[01:35:05] then when you had the guys that were
[01:35:06] grinding us because they were making us
[01:35:08] better and creating that like so instead
[01:35:11] of just this sense of nonsensical
[01:35:12] training because just to training's sake
[01:35:14] but they're like hey guys we get this
[01:35:16] done we will be the platoon they call up
[01:35:19] and sure [ __ ] when [ __ ] went down on my
[01:35:22] first deployment what platoon do they
[01:35:24] pick up and those guys are good because
[01:35:25] they do that a lot of us when you get to
[01:35:27] a True Fellowship when we actually
[01:35:28] that's that goes into the fellowship but
[01:35:30] the culture when you get leaders like
[01:35:31] that they're doing it that out of a
[01:35:33] sense of Duty and responsibility when
[01:35:35] they can start doing like smaller
[01:35:37] leadership and going above and beyond
[01:35:39] then that's when you're going to get
[01:35:41] that group that'll go die on the hill
[01:35:42] because like when people feel
[01:35:43] responsible like like hey it's on us to
[01:35:46] go do whatever and like Hey we're the
[01:35:48] ones we're picked we better do it to not
[01:35:51] let down other people that expect it
[01:35:52] that's when you have like a true like
[01:35:54] Fellowship that's outstanding so the guy
[01:35:56] on the hill is a result yes of doing
[01:35:59] everything else right yeah it's not a
[01:36:01] tertiary secondary you can't yeah it's
[01:36:03] not a it's not the motivational it's the
[01:36:06] result of everything else that motivated
[01:36:07] me yeah it's hard to get a group of
[01:36:09] people like like even literally willing
[01:36:12] to die on a hill together unless you
[01:36:14] have that Fellowship you ask like group
[01:36:16] of snipers or something to go die in the
[01:36:17] hill together they'll be like wish Hill
[01:36:19] because then like probably the one you
[01:36:21] have to walk way up but yeah but then
[01:36:22] like but if you don't then that's when
[01:36:24] you start seeing what you're talking
[01:36:25] about before when personal loyalties
[01:36:27] kind of usurp like the fellowship that's
[01:36:30] when you don't have that but if you can
[01:36:31] have that Fellowship then then it's just
[01:36:33] a matter of which healing that's awesome
[01:36:35] so let's get to the point for useful
[01:36:38] information that are actionable ideas
[01:36:40] for our listeners to improve trust and
[01:36:43] loyalty because I again I think the
[01:36:46] manager slash leader a big part of their
[01:36:49] role is to develop Fellowship which
[01:36:51] means increase trust and increase
[01:36:53] loyalty I think we beat to death the
[01:36:56] idea of deliberate practice so we don't
[01:36:59] have to talk about that anymore but it
[01:37:01] deliberate practice and repetition
[01:37:04] clearly is something we need to do but
[01:37:08] with eyes wide open you guys were
[01:37:10] talking about everybody's watching
[01:37:12] everybody else and then you come
[01:37:14] together you improve really from anybody
[01:37:17] on the team leader subordinate peers
[01:37:19] come together improve the process repeat
[01:37:22] keep refining it right up till the
[01:37:24] mission so it's the very best it can be
[01:37:26] before you go so we got that one but
[01:37:29] some other things that come to mind for
[01:37:32] instance I'd like you guys to briefly
[01:37:33] comment I think one thing that needs to
[01:37:36] happen to improve this is is authentic
[01:37:39] And Timely information sharing oh my God
[01:37:43] because we're going to hammer in we have
[01:37:45] 11 to go through so we want to in just a
[01:37:47] minute or two each if you guys would
[01:37:49] comment on information sharing's
[01:37:52] importance in terms of developing trust
[01:37:55] and Leadership because that's an
[01:37:57] actionable thing that most our listeners
[01:37:59] can do right away yeah I mean I for me
[01:38:01] it would be I mean you've we've always
[01:38:03] heard that Classic this this meeting
[01:38:05] could have been an email
[01:38:07] and I think when you really think about
[01:38:09] implementing it as a practice is that I
[01:38:11] think there is a point of understanding
[01:38:13] is is the information you're passing
[01:38:15] something they don't they don't know
[01:38:16] because I think it it almost comes off
[01:38:19] as to me it is not even busy working
[01:38:21] it's almost insulting yeah you're saying
[01:38:23] it's the same you didn't think I knew
[01:38:24] that Paul like you know it's like hey
[01:38:26] Kelly make sure you breathe and we're
[01:38:27] talking it's like what you know and I
[01:38:29] feel like I've heard I've heard that's
[01:38:31] an appropriate place for me to interject
[01:38:33] that all the principles we're talking
[01:38:35] about yeah I'm trying to get better at
[01:38:37] myself so I mean it's really hard to be
[01:38:40] good at everything yeah and that's one
[01:38:42] reason this whole concept fascinates me
[01:38:45] because I have skill gaps there that I
[01:38:47] want to fill but also coaching when we
[01:38:50] go through these kind of dissertations
[01:38:51] in Deep dive on Fellowship um it lets me
[01:38:55] coach better it's like the coach of any
[01:38:57] NFL team isn't as good as the
[01:38:58] quarterback he might know what
[01:39:00] quarterback should do but he can't throw
[01:39:01] the ball right so I aspire to be a
[01:39:03] better Coach and advisor and really get
[01:39:06] my people good and certainly do my my
[01:39:08] piece but I just want to interject the
[01:39:11] best actionable way to do that which he
[01:39:13] just did education education it's
[01:39:15] self-education which is for information
[01:39:17] you can't share any new information if
[01:39:19] you don't learn any new information
[01:39:20] that's excellent and it's like what you
[01:39:22] said give them what they need to know
[01:39:24] the the five W's I mean that might be
[01:39:27] over satellite and all walks of life but
[01:39:29] it's literally that's the most effective
[01:39:30] keep it short keep it sweet and keep it
[01:39:32] simple and then don't fluff and then but
[01:39:35] get authentic information yeah and if
[01:39:38] you do share wrong information admit it
[01:39:40] and then say this was wrong I will find
[01:39:42] out the correct answer or here is the
[01:39:44] correct answer because everybody makes
[01:39:46] mistakes but then like but sharing of
[01:39:48] information it keeps everybody in the
[01:39:50] loop you know not only just are they
[01:39:52] learning they feel involved even if they
[01:39:55] don't like not like to the extent of
[01:39:57] killing I didn't even notice but even if
[01:39:59] it's not really in their job but it's
[01:40:01] part but if it's related to them they
[01:40:04] still feel involved like enough for like
[01:40:05] oh I got included on this yeah in the
[01:40:08] flip side of that because remember we
[01:40:10] talked about toughness and responding is
[01:40:13] also trusting the management slash
[01:40:16] leadership to disseminate the right
[01:40:18] information and be okay if you didn't
[01:40:21] hear everything yes because everything
[01:40:23] is going to overwhelm and probably add
[01:40:26] inefficiencies I think it's more
[01:40:28] appropriate to share more dying on the
[01:40:30] hill than taking a New Hope for instance
[01:40:32] the higher the stakes and the intensity
[01:40:36] of the situation there's a trade-off
[01:40:38] between too much information can be
[01:40:41] included so someone on a team
[01:40:43] organization that trusts the ability of
[01:40:46] management or the holder of information
[01:40:48] to get it to the right person doesn't
[01:40:51] whine when they don't hear the same
[01:40:53] thing exactly and in other words okay I
[01:40:56] want maybe they found out after the fact
[01:40:58] yeah it's okay I wasn't in that loop I
[01:41:00] see why I wasn't in that Loop rather
[01:41:01] than pouting
[01:41:03] I'm being a little bit over dramatic but
[01:41:06] I've run into that in my 40s a good
[01:41:08] thing to ask in private company a good
[01:41:10] thing to ask yourself before
[01:41:12] communicating or in like when you're
[01:41:14] doing your little hindsight like could
[01:41:15] have done in other words if and order
[01:41:17] can be misunderstood it will be
[01:41:19] misunderstood I need to work on that one
[01:41:21] and because like and that's how you can
[01:41:23] kind of help and now it's always a
[01:41:24] learning process because it's like
[01:41:25] sometimes you question did I send too
[01:41:27] much information or not enough if and
[01:41:28] you're always only as strong as your
[01:41:30] weakest link if your weakest link can
[01:41:32] understand it and stuff you've
[01:41:34] communicated you're there you've
[01:41:35] communicated enough and effectively yeah
[01:41:37] if there is even a question one of the
[01:41:39] best ways to just ask did everybody
[01:41:40] understand it does anybody have any
[01:41:42] questions because there's nothing wrong
[01:41:43] with we always say there's no stupid
[01:41:44] questions right the only one that's
[01:41:46] stupid is the one that you didn't ask
[01:41:47] and if you're thinking it and ask it I
[01:41:50] guarantee somebody else will no
[01:41:51] excellent and there are some pretty
[01:41:53] questions you know we could probably do
[01:41:56] a podcast on all of these another one I
[01:41:58] want to get to is start early and in
[01:42:01] terms of the idea of fellowship and
[01:42:03] that's where student athletes come in
[01:42:04] yes and so okay we're Beyond high school
[01:42:08] and such but we can work on our athletic
[01:42:11] student athlete type benefits if we're
[01:42:13] on a you play D3 football after or you
[01:42:17] can join a club team or you can be in
[01:42:20] the soccer league on Tuesday nights or
[01:42:23] something and so you can still practice
[01:42:24] those but what I'm really getting so
[01:42:27] that's one way to do it and I really
[01:42:28] encourage that I think that's a big part
[01:42:30] of being a fit professional being a
[01:42:32] complete professional but starting early
[01:42:34] so the parents out there the listeners
[01:42:36] with kids
[01:42:38] student Athletics man it's huge it's
[01:42:40] probably the biggest thing because
[01:42:41] remember Fellowship we're talking about
[01:42:42] fellowships when we got out of the
[01:42:45] military we craved the fellowship you
[01:42:47] started them early they will always be
[01:42:48] seeking Fellowship because they want to
[01:42:50] be a part of something bigger than
[01:42:51] themselves and it makes them a more
[01:42:53] empathetic it makes them a more
[01:42:54] unselfish person and makes them a harder
[01:42:56] worker because they're more they CR they
[01:42:58] crave to be part of something they want
[01:43:00] to do well and they will take that
[01:43:02] personal initiative to get there to be a
[01:43:04] part of something to complete a mission
[01:43:05] and then there's the corollary in a
[01:43:08] sport like football or hockey where you
[01:43:10] have lots of contacts all the things in
[01:43:13] that sport that like you said earlier I
[01:43:16] think that it teaches the light bulb
[01:43:18] went off when you got to the military in
[01:43:20] a bigger way but it's the same it's all
[01:43:22] same kind most of what we've been
[01:43:24] talking here today right it goes back in
[01:43:27] time an earlier point in time that it
[01:43:29] makes you even more likely to succeed
[01:43:31] understanding how to support this how to
[01:43:34] utilize it how to multiply it teaches
[01:43:36] them responsibility I think the biggest
[01:43:37] thing for humans to have is you got to
[01:43:40] learn that like people are counting on
[01:43:42] you and that can be in any way if you're
[01:43:44] just being counted on solely to do one
[01:43:46] thing and you're not part of like an
[01:43:47] offensive line or something you'll be
[01:43:49] more apt to do that if you've
[01:43:51] experienced like Youth Sports and stuff
[01:43:52] like that anything that you can get
[01:43:54] your kids to be in that makes them a
[01:43:56] part of a group that have to work
[01:43:57] together to achieve something even if
[01:43:59] it's like getting your own like if you
[01:44:01] have three or four kids and get them to
[01:44:02] go clean the yard and then you tell them
[01:44:04] you know you acknowledge it when they
[01:44:05] see the benefits of what working
[01:44:07] together does right that helps a lot
[01:44:09] yeah excellent so the next two I'm going
[01:44:12] to combine understanding the role both
[01:44:15] from the leadership designing the roles
[01:44:17] and filling the roles correctly also the
[01:44:20] person in the role in The Sports World I
[01:44:23] call it the duck Char player I think
[01:44:24] ultimately you know you guys in the
[01:44:26] military are definitely depth chart guys
[01:44:28] you weren't the generals right and how
[01:44:30] important that is so important but the
[01:44:32] attribute is create the culture and the
[01:44:34] training and the information
[01:44:35] dissemination to create the intrinsic
[01:44:38] motivation for the depth chart player or
[01:44:41] whatever role to constantly work on
[01:44:44] knowledge skills and disciplines that
[01:44:47] improve their capability and
[01:44:49] competencies so that they can contribute
[01:44:52] to the mission so that is actionable I
[01:44:56] think in a professional space if you
[01:44:58] think about it I mean it's hard to do
[01:45:00] because a lot of times but you said it's
[01:45:02] perfect like we're just some dude out
[01:45:05] there and it's hard to see the macro
[01:45:06] level but if if there's a way to show
[01:45:08] your employees the bigger picture I
[01:45:10] don't know what that looks like in a
[01:45:11] business they have to see it something
[01:45:13] they have to see success outside their
[01:45:14] job like the company's doing well or
[01:45:16] whatever that might be and then I always
[01:45:17] used to tell our guys like it takes one
[01:45:20] snowflake to start an avalanche so like
[01:45:21] the depth chart guys it's like you know
[01:45:23] it's like you might not be the big guy
[01:45:25] but it takes everybody and but like also
[01:45:28] depth chart guys it's like actually
[01:45:30] Charlie is a good example practice squad
[01:45:32] in football those guys are making the
[01:45:34] starters better and they're there every
[01:45:36] day and yep and it goes back to the
[01:45:38] acknowledgment but everybody's role in
[01:45:40] the company is important and if their
[01:45:42] role isn't important that's because the
[01:45:44] leadership has created a worthless role
[01:45:46] excellent excellent comment absolutely
[01:45:49] next one I want to cover okay we're just
[01:45:51] trying to stay under two hours here I
[01:45:53] sure hope every everybody's listening to
[01:45:55] the end this is the professional podcast
[01:45:57] and the boy we're really doing a deep
[01:45:59] dive on fellowship and learning just the
[01:46:01] time so again here on actionable items I
[01:46:05] use the term recover so recover together
[01:46:07] you talked about the barracks and I'd
[01:46:10] say recover and celebrate together
[01:46:12] sometimes like that's easy to implement
[01:46:14] and that's actually something the Marine
[01:46:15] Corps struggles with very well okay so
[01:46:17] when we get back on deployment a lot of
[01:46:19] you guys either get out or they'll go to
[01:46:21] a new unit and a lot of like the PTSD
[01:46:24] problems and stuff there's been a couple
[01:46:25] studies that have shown that it's not
[01:46:27] guaranteed to help it like a time to
[01:46:28] like what you said decompress recover
[01:46:30] together because if you're together
[01:46:33] during the mission you should be there
[01:46:35] after to celebrate together and that's
[01:46:37] actually something that is a negative
[01:46:39] thing in the military that they should
[01:46:40] probably work on I don't know how that
[01:46:42] went but well the corollary of that
[01:46:44] might be in business that if the enemy's
[01:46:47] making a move and you have to counter
[01:46:49] you don't get your recovery in business
[01:46:51] of your competitions doing something or
[01:46:53] you have a deadline and you just have to
[01:46:55] get back to it actually cover that have
[01:46:58] a Blog out there on chronic fatigue
[01:47:00] syndrome and also I'll be putting one
[01:47:02] out there on both threshold performance
[01:47:04] which is like is balls out as you can go
[01:47:07] for as long as you can go but boy you
[01:47:10] can do that but then you've got to
[01:47:11] recover I mean the World War II version
[01:47:13] was Patton and his tanks doing the rush
[01:47:15] but I more practical for all of us it
[01:47:18] should be fairly easy to implement
[01:47:20] whereby for instance our company we do
[01:47:23] try to have we have a fun coordinator
[01:47:25] it's Emily we've done bowling we've gone
[01:47:28] to a bar and just had some beers and
[01:47:30] they've been after kind of Milestone
[01:47:32] quarterly meanings and things like that
[01:47:34] where people were you know they were
[01:47:36] nervous they prepared well they did a
[01:47:38] great job now we get to sit down and
[01:47:40] talk about it and you acknowledge that
[01:47:42] and another thing too is to prevent this
[01:47:44] fatigue is like what we were talking
[01:47:46] about more of like training all the
[01:47:47] people to the same standard that they're
[01:47:48] competent to complete the mission that's
[01:47:50] why they cycle units on deployment it's
[01:47:52] so that they don't get that fatigue it
[01:47:53] usually able to trust one employee in a
[01:47:56] section to just do another person's and
[01:47:58] so on and so forth and just make sure
[01:48:00] that the same people like when it's time
[01:48:02] to grind it's time to grind but make
[01:48:03] sure it's not always that section yeah
[01:48:06] you got it so practically in our private
[01:48:09] Corporation space then we want to maybe
[01:48:11] take a look at our cross training and
[01:48:13] see if we can enhance yes
[01:48:16] it's very difficult in a low profit
[01:48:19] margin industry to have redundancies but
[01:48:22] to the extent you can have redundancies
[01:48:25] absolutely so that that's what I heard
[01:48:27] and I hope the listener takes that and
[01:48:29] if you can't cycle out the employee of
[01:48:31] always having to do the difficult thing
[01:48:34] we'll then try to innovate it so that
[01:48:36] that thing isn't as difficult or like
[01:48:39] what like if I don't know how to put
[01:48:41] that in business terms but it's like if
[01:48:43] we always have to do these expense
[01:48:44] reports or whatever maybe try to like
[01:48:46] simplify that I don't know well
[01:48:47] engineering principles are divided in
[01:48:49] the small manageable Parts
[01:48:51] create procedures on those and then
[01:48:54] train on them fundamentally Peter
[01:48:56] Drucker from 1940 in the whole science
[01:48:59] of industrial engineering which
[01:49:00] essentially won World War II yeah and
[01:49:03] then they made cars with it in Japan and
[01:49:05] really made nice low-cost cars but
[01:49:06] anyway the next one is just in terms of
[01:49:09] moving along here is the concept of
[01:49:12] those positive drop-ins which is
[01:49:14] appropriately an authentic
[01:49:16] acknowledgment no also with purpose so
[01:49:20] that's something that's easy to pick up
[01:49:22] it's not one of my strong points I
[01:49:24] actually have a measure where I got to
[01:49:26] get off away from my computer and get
[01:49:28] out and talk to people more but there's
[01:49:30] a whole bunch underneath that and that's
[01:49:33] an easy one for the listener to start
[01:49:34] right now when they're done with this
[01:49:36] podcast they could get up from their
[01:49:38] desk or if they're listening to it while
[01:49:39] they're fixing supper do it tomorrow
[01:49:41] it's yeah I call it the give a [ __ ] like
[01:49:44] you gotta have the giversary if you have
[01:49:46] to force yourself to do it why are you
[01:49:47] in that leadership position like if you
[01:49:49] have to force yourself to go give a [ __ ]
[01:49:51] about who's working for you and then you
[01:49:53] can do the purpose and care about the
[01:49:55] person who's you know hey Keely how's
[01:49:56] your family oh what are you doing how is
[01:49:57] that going for you is there anything do
[01:49:59] you need my you ask them if do you need
[01:50:00] my help making it easier on you or that
[01:50:03] you don't have to go any further I think
[01:50:04] that's spot on we just want to
[01:50:06] acknowledge small companies that are
[01:50:09] understaffed and overwhelmed so the lack
[01:50:12] of pdis might be that as opposed
[01:50:17] however small the PDI is as long as
[01:50:20] that's why yeah it's showing face and I
[01:50:23] think two is Dunham I have initials and
[01:50:25] I put a little tick mark hold on holy
[01:50:27] crap I haven't seen anybody for a week
[01:50:29] that's right reality and it's also true
[01:50:31] and when it's not staged yeah you know
[01:50:33] where it's authentic
[01:50:35] yeah it's like they do that with
[01:50:37] whatever like oh we have like a
[01:50:38] mandatory fun event which we always did
[01:50:40] yeah it's the only time I've seen the
[01:50:41] freaking kernel this whole time dude
[01:50:44] kind of knows my name but that's it and
[01:50:45] I'm like well maybe I know he doesn't
[01:50:46] really care meanwhile I have flambert
[01:50:49] who just would show up at you know no
[01:50:51] given time I wasn't told he's gonna be
[01:50:53] there and then he's like hey are you
[01:50:54] done like what do we got going on here
[01:50:57] and like just something like that made
[01:50:58] it now you know is completely deliberate
[01:51:01] yeah and I mean it's very very important
[01:51:04] like a big company it meant a lot to you
[01:51:07] oh yeah I mean
[01:51:08] you might not know everybody's employees
[01:51:11] my name or like the general probably
[01:51:12] doesn't know my name but if you just
[01:51:13] look at them and say how are you doing
[01:51:14] because you might not be able to say it
[01:51:16] to all 1500 people but people will see
[01:51:18] you do that to someone on their level
[01:51:19] it's almost just as good so the next one
[01:51:22] we covered maybe even Beat to Death a
[01:51:24] little bit is the concept of closing
[01:51:26] skill gaps or close also accountability
[01:51:29] gaps and that's very important and it
[01:51:32] comes from everywhere it's not just top
[01:51:33] down bottom up here it's everywhere all
[01:51:36] the time but what really matters on that
[01:51:38] is creating acceptance at all levels
[01:51:41] that that's not a bad thing that's a
[01:51:42] positive thing no it's because of your
[01:51:45] work or your workspace it could be I
[01:51:48] would say start small start looking
[01:51:49] appearances workspace stuff like that
[01:51:51] and then let people know it is a direct
[01:51:53] reflection of your yourself and your
[01:51:55] company because how do you think
[01:51:56] perceptions reality if you look good you
[01:51:58] play good give the whole Deion Sanders
[01:52:00] quote but it's like you preach
[01:52:01] accountability on all levels so it
[01:52:03] doesn't seem like you're just trying to
[01:52:04] harp on like let's make sure everybody
[01:52:05] comes to this meeting one day it's no
[01:52:07] it's accountability on every level but
[01:52:10] not so much where it seems like it's
[01:52:12] beaten over the the head because it will
[01:52:14] be but it's spread out because then
[01:52:16] people just get tired of hearing the
[01:52:18] same thing over but if you're like small
[01:52:20] Corrections because then it you have to
[01:52:24] do it to the point where people are they
[01:52:25] have pride instilled in making the
[01:52:27] corrections and looking for it in
[01:52:28] themselves but not to the point where it
[01:52:30] creates like a fewer basis like
[01:52:32] Perfection robotic like kind of work
[01:52:34] environment because yeah then you're
[01:52:35] just gonna go the other way yeah and
[01:52:37] then another one was grind together
[01:52:38] which is kind of as I should have
[01:52:40] deliberate practice but yeah you guys
[01:52:43] said embrace the suck I think yeah it
[01:52:45] was and what he always had showing face
[01:52:46] even if you're not doing exactly what
[01:52:48] they're doing show up and be like I
[01:52:50] really appreciate what you guys are
[01:52:51] doing this sucks doesn't it just
[01:52:52] acknowledge it that's grind together and
[01:52:54] then make sure that the people are
[01:52:56] grinding the recovery goes into that but
[01:52:58] I think Julie said in showing face just
[01:53:00] maybe once a while or just how do you do
[01:53:02] that because then it shows that you are
[01:53:03] invested in however important the task
[01:53:05] is
[01:53:06] yeah yeah it shows that you actually
[01:53:09] care and that's just as much as it you
[01:53:11] doing like filling a sandbag with it
[01:53:13] it's just and that's the grind thing you
[01:53:14] stick like grinding together racing the
[01:53:16] stock you know and that and it doesn't
[01:53:17] even have to be something that really
[01:53:19] truly sucks it could just be something
[01:53:20] that's just monotonous tedious but
[01:53:22] because you're doing it together you
[01:53:24] know that it takes away I mean the worst
[01:53:25] thing for a human being to happen is
[01:53:27] because human beings crave connection
[01:53:29] you take away if you isolate somebody
[01:53:31] they're gonna be worthless for you to
[01:53:34] you and that's why when you said
[01:53:35] celebrate the goods together and what
[01:53:38] Keely keeps saying is together just make
[01:53:39] sure whatever they're doing is together
[01:53:40] together because then the good then then
[01:53:43] it's the good and the best and that's
[01:53:44] the fellowship they're going to be here
[01:53:45] during the good and the bad times and
[01:53:47] we're going to work together you saw
[01:53:48] that band of brothers when they you know
[01:53:49] that guy got punished and he got told to
[01:53:52] run up Curry by himself what happened
[01:53:53] everyone just showed up behind him and
[01:53:55] ran with him
[01:53:56] you can't ask for anything more than
[01:53:59] that if you screw up they don't punish
[01:54:01] you they punish the groups
[01:54:05] yeah so the next one is always be on the
[01:54:08] lookout or observing what you can do
[01:54:11] like as personal responsibility with
[01:54:14] enthusiasm where you can apply your
[01:54:17] competencies and capacity to help
[01:54:19] permission so you do your role first but
[01:54:22] if you have any slack time or
[01:54:23] discretionary time you don't put your
[01:54:26] feet up what do you do you know just be
[01:54:28] I mean it's something to offer but like
[01:54:30] what you said before but don't do it
[01:54:32] just to do it and waste people's time do
[01:54:34] it because it could serve a purpose and
[01:54:36] it helps the mission and it helps them
[01:54:37] yes not for false chips yeah you owe me
[01:54:42] one not for that either yeah there can't
[01:54:44] be a hidden meaning behind it like even
[01:54:46] if it doesn't directly apply to them
[01:54:47] people can tell if you're Being Earnest
[01:54:49] that you it's because you care even if
[01:54:51] you're teaching them like like teaching
[01:54:52] Computing something on the computer that
[01:54:54] you might not ever use but it could he
[01:54:56] might have to teach it to somebody in
[01:54:57] his Department as long as it's useful
[01:54:59] and that you care about it
[01:55:00] it doesn't even have to be that
[01:55:02] self-improvement is one of those one you
[01:55:04] know as a leader self-improvement is I
[01:55:06] mean one of the Crux like the true core
[01:55:08] values of a leader is that they're
[01:55:10] you're like you said you're not putting
[01:55:11] your feet up you know I mean like when
[01:55:13] you look at the podium you know
[01:55:14] somebody's on first place I mean there's
[01:55:15] always more actually I take back what I
[01:55:17] said that's a better idea you know
[01:55:18] self-education like you said like you're
[01:55:21] acknowledging the fact that you have
[01:55:22] gaps yeah and don't rest on your mind
[01:55:24] you know that you failed as a leader if
[01:55:26] you went no I'm pretty much set like
[01:55:28] that's and not a good the biggest
[01:55:30] failure we know leaders that do that
[01:55:31] yeah honestly doing things like this or
[01:55:33] just reading books on leadership or
[01:55:35] reading like history books that's I mean
[01:55:37] it's yeah just continuing education
[01:55:39] because at a certain point when you've
[01:55:40] been a leader a long enough time you're
[01:55:43] probably either in or of experience or
[01:55:45] going to when you start having to
[01:55:47] transition like focus more on passing
[01:55:49] off the knowledge instead of I mean
[01:55:51] you're always gonna be looking to gain
[01:55:52] new knowledge but it's also like long
[01:55:54] term and stuff like what can I do for
[01:55:55] them today or whatever how can I what do
[01:55:57] they call it when it spreads like I
[01:55:59] might teach something yeah
[01:56:10] absolutely absolutely and the last one
[01:56:12] takeaway is I believe that professional
[01:56:15] or private companies for-profit
[01:56:17] companies can figure out ways to get
[01:56:20] individuals to measure their own effort
[01:56:23] I don't think it's a boss measure I
[01:56:25] think it's an individual measure and it
[01:56:27] can be a simple I actually do it on
[01:56:29] every time card every day Zero through
[01:56:31] ten and I gauge that I just watch it for
[01:56:34] my own feedback I can tell if I had a
[01:56:36] good week if I have all seven eights and
[01:56:39] nines I don't remember giving myself a
[01:56:41] 10 because I'm you know that's a good
[01:56:43] week if I have two three spores
[01:56:45] something's going on maybe I was sick
[01:56:48] maybe I didn't see anybody that week I
[01:56:50] had zero tick marks and as far as
[01:56:52] positive drop-ins but I believe in what
[01:56:55] you guys were talking about that's going
[01:56:57] on in everybody's head there is an
[01:56:59] awareness of their effortless level
[01:57:01] relative to the expectation of the group
[01:57:04] and so maybe it doesn't need to be
[01:57:07] measured what I'm saying in the private
[01:57:08] sector I think often there isn't this
[01:57:10] acceptance there's kind of like what are
[01:57:12] you doing for me lately company what are
[01:57:14] you doing for me lately boss as opposed
[01:57:17] to what can I do to deliver the mission
[01:57:19] within the available time I have or
[01:57:21] within the quality and qualitative and
[01:57:24] quantitative aspects of my role to be
[01:57:28] honest with that I think you have to
[01:57:29] give them instead of saying something to
[01:57:31] measure because not everybody's just
[01:57:33] going to go and prove themselves out of
[01:57:34] the goodness of their hearts to and this
[01:57:37] is true Moses is true most people just
[01:57:38] won't like if you give them something to
[01:57:40] obtain they'll figure out what they need
[01:57:42] to put in for that effort to obtain it
[01:57:44] something you're listening and I think
[01:57:45] that's probably just a better way than
[01:57:47] hoping everybody's gonna just improve
[01:57:49] for improvements I'm not hoping but
[01:57:51] having get your staff in someone what
[01:57:54] you said is a way to get them to do this
[01:57:56] yeah give them the care give them a
[01:57:58] character totally in my years absolutely
[01:58:01] think what you said is absolutely true
[01:58:03] in that most people don't think this way
[01:58:06] I think it's more than just 51 I think
[01:58:10] it's a big majority of people don't
[01:58:12] necessarily think how is my effort level
[01:58:15] at my job today but you guys when you're
[01:58:17] doing your mission when you're on patrol
[01:58:19] it's a call a debrief yeah and it's
[01:58:22] actually formalized into the process but
[01:58:25] what I've gathered from you and correct
[01:58:27] me if I'm wrong but you're also kind of
[01:58:29] doing your own debrief in your head yeah
[01:58:31] well it's because it for me it's to you
[01:58:33] like no nobody ever told us to like
[01:58:35] debrief in our own head but we do like
[01:58:37] monthly counselings where it's basically
[01:58:39] we do a debrief after a mission
[01:58:40] basically
[01:58:42] yeah after base it was a way more
[01:58:45] extreme level than military basically
[01:58:46] after anything you do somebody will tell
[01:58:47] you how you did it and they're like good
[01:58:49] job performance feedback yeah and then
[01:58:51] your lives yeah and you'll start doing
[01:58:53] it yourself because and then so I think
[01:58:56] that goes into the fellowship thing when
[01:58:57] people are like you're in perfect
[01:58:59] alignment with like what your company is
[01:59:01] and like what you want
[01:59:02] that so you're already on your own
[01:59:04] making that how much effort do I have to
[01:59:06] give sore back so it goes back to that
[01:59:08] so if you get that Fellowship they're
[01:59:11] gonna create that own checklist so the
[01:59:13] last thing I would take away is when you
[01:59:15] guys sign up for the military there's a
[01:59:17] huge amount of alignment right there
[01:59:18] wanna high school kid plays deal one
[01:59:21] football there's a huge alignment with
[01:59:22] the football program so the very first
[01:59:25] thing is higher for alignment yes figure
[01:59:27] out how to check that make sure they're
[01:59:29] lying once they're in if you can come up
[01:59:31] with a way where they'll have the
[01:59:33] convictions these guys talked about as
[01:59:35] far as a self-assessment even if it's
[01:59:38] informal I'm just saying if you can pull
[01:59:40] that off I think it's really important
[01:59:42] because what do we know we know that we
[01:59:44] all agree effort trumps Talent effort
[01:59:47] makes your talent look more I mean
[01:59:49] that's what most of us do through hard
[01:59:51] work because not everybody is
[01:59:54] self-disciplined or the very best yeah
[01:59:56] yeah Wayne Gretzky everybody's Gretzky
[02:00:00] yeah and even he got to the way he was
[02:00:02] because of effort yeah like and that's I
[02:00:04] mean it works perfectly with that
[02:00:06] because I mean how many of those guys
[02:00:07] you hear you never hear anyone talk
[02:00:09] about the guy who had all the talent in
[02:00:10] the world but he's not here right and I
[02:00:12] think a good idea like a business use
[02:00:14] what I said before ask people what they
[02:00:17] want and I don't mean like money you're
[02:00:19] like ask them what their goals are and
[02:00:20] then say what can you do to get there
[02:00:23] and then what can I do to help you get
[02:00:24] there and then they'll fill in those
[02:00:26] other gaps for themselves but they have
[02:00:28] like I keep saying there's got to be an
[02:00:30] end State goal and but then you can do
[02:00:31] what you wanted into that you can work
[02:00:33] that into you can serve both purposes
[02:00:36] and I think that's
[02:00:39] is very difficult it's very difficult
[02:00:42] because remember at least with me I
[02:00:45] don't believe you can force intrinsic
[02:00:47] motivation you cannot no and so we have
[02:00:49] to go to alignment we have to go into
[02:00:51] alignment with the mission and even in
[02:00:53] that case when you're in a job now we're
[02:00:55] talking in the private for-profit
[02:00:57] professional or not-for-profit
[02:00:59] professional sector we have people in
[02:01:01] roles that they're not necessarily
[02:01:04] aligned right and I think if you could
[02:01:07] get people to accurately assess how
[02:01:09] their effort level was that day they
[02:01:11] would find out if they were brutally
[02:01:12] honest with themselves they might be
[02:01:15] doing a higher net effort in their after
[02:01:18] work favorite thing to do than they're
[02:01:21] doing at their job right and that's a
[02:01:23] whole other podcast I have another
[02:01:25] intensity multiplier principle on that
[02:01:27] one too but a takeaway is if the
[02:01:30] employers can figure out how to measure
[02:01:31] that not measure that but get people to
[02:01:33] do that kind of self-assessment and
[02:01:36] create that culture it can be very
[02:01:38] powerful I actually just had a thought
[02:01:40] yeah you were saying assessing or
[02:01:41] scouting part during like the hiring
[02:01:43] process sure do you guys ever ask them
[02:01:44] like not were they working for but if
[02:01:46] they've ever played High School sports
[02:01:47] it's a standard question for me that's
[02:01:49] in fact I'll also sequel on resumes if I
[02:01:52] don't see high school sports on there
[02:01:54] I'll probably just arrange the stack
[02:01:56] that way and that's real controversial
[02:01:59] no that's good because you all the
[02:02:01] values that we're talking about that you
[02:02:02] want an employee yeah High School sports
[02:02:03] military boys it's like there's
[02:02:05] organizations and maybe people have been
[02:02:07] watching this podcast or listening to it
[02:02:09] right now that the hair on the back of
[02:02:10] their neck just went up when we said
[02:02:12] that but it is true when I sat down at
[02:02:15] the University of Michigan and they were
[02:02:17] giving parent orientation they said how
[02:02:19] many of your kids played High School
[02:02:21] sports and 90 of the room went up their
[02:02:25] hands and it's not good and they said
[02:02:26] that that all else equal this admissions
[02:02:29] woman told us that and then more
[02:02:32] recently in the book grit I'm going to
[02:02:34] get a name wrong right now but the book
[02:02:36] grit that yeah young lady did a bunch of
[02:02:39] studies with high school kids that
[02:02:41] showed that kids that play high school
[02:02:43] sports for two years and two years was a
[02:02:46] cut off are two times more likely to be
[02:02:49] reach a higher level of success than
[02:02:51] whatever their Endeavor was yep now
[02:02:53] there's plenty of studies in she did a
[02:02:56] Ted Taco come to me but and that's a
[02:02:58] really good way to wrap this up is start
[02:03:00] them early Heist student athletes really
[02:03:03] set up frankly in my opinion all 16 of
[02:03:06] the intensity multiplier principles but
[02:03:09] especially Fellowship you learn so much
[02:03:12] about it in athletics and I think
[02:03:15] extracurriculars too and an
[02:03:17] extracurricular with a competitive
[02:03:18] component has the same impact I think
[02:03:21] Sports has a better that's a personal
[02:03:23] opinion the best thing about the sports
[02:03:24] is when I was talking about don't do
[02:03:26] something just to do it'd be like today
[02:03:27] we're going to have a fellowship
[02:03:29] training day oh that people aren't going
[02:03:30] to pay attention the best thing about
[02:03:31] sports they're learning all of that and
[02:03:33] they don't even know they're learning
[02:03:34] exactly they're they're just doing it
[02:03:37] like what I said
[02:03:40] that means you were probably in the
[02:03:42] right organization yeah and think of the
[02:03:44] power to the young man or young woman if
[02:03:46] they're introduced to these principles
[02:03:48] going in how much more they can take out
[02:03:51] of it and that's really an angel at Duck
[02:03:52] work thank you Angela Duck's work
[02:03:55] Duckworth thank you very good so in
[02:03:57] conclusion what I like to do is just
[02:03:59] have you two guys spend a minute or two
[02:04:01] on what your takeaways of today if you
[02:04:04] want you can advise our listener what
[02:04:06] they might consider based on what we've
[02:04:08] talked about today honestly it's a good
[02:04:10] refresher course because it's like
[02:04:12] like how many times you mean can you go
[02:04:13] like oh yeah like that is because just
[02:04:15] like anything like leadership's a
[02:04:16] perishable skill you can get worse I
[02:04:18] mean like me and Keely have probably
[02:04:19] gotten like a bustle yeah we've gotten
[02:04:21] worse at it probably since we've been
[02:04:23] out because we just haven't been there
[02:04:24] but we have the background obviously and
[02:04:25] stuff but like you got to keep
[02:04:27] practicing it and then like get them
[02:04:29] started young you can join the Marine
[02:04:30] Corps at 17 so get your kids in
[02:04:33] yeah no and then for myself it was
[02:04:36] definitely I hopefully it was actually
[02:04:38] kind of forgetting that I was reminded
[02:04:40] of how capable I am and I think like
[02:04:43] it's one of those things too that like
[02:04:44] why it's awesome to see this is because
[02:04:46] knowing that there are leaders out there
[02:04:48] that want to implement this kind of
[02:04:50] stuff because me going into the
[02:04:53] workforce even just as a counselor
[02:04:54] working for you know an organization or
[02:04:56] even opening my own private practice if
[02:04:57] I have other counselors with me
[02:05:00] how do I make that work you know how do
[02:05:01] I if I have a you know company that I
[02:05:03] want to work for with an online Vision
[02:05:05] life's going to be pretty good excellent
[02:05:07] well my takeaway I'm absolutely
[02:05:10] motivated talking to you guys here
[02:05:11] really helped fill in some great
[02:05:13] examples that I never could have come up
[02:05:15] with on my own with her experience so
[02:05:17] that's just outstanding the other
[02:05:18] thought I had is I think I might have
[02:05:20] these guys back if you're willing we
[02:05:22] have so many different things we can
[02:05:23] talk about and it was really fun you
[02:05:25] guys did a really good job and so I
[02:05:28] really hope that the listener has been
[02:05:30] able to think of ways that they can
[02:05:32] handle margin problems team problems
[02:05:34] especially and then rescue time meaning
[02:05:37] that we only get 24 hours in a day
[02:05:39] people say make time save time well
[02:05:42] time's constant so in my view I think
[02:05:44] we're rescuing time and hopefully when
[02:05:47] your team is gelling like this when
[02:05:48] Fellowship is really high and you don't
[02:05:51] have any incompatibility in your team
[02:05:53] working in there you can really get a
[02:05:55] lot more done and get better results and
[02:05:58] it really is about results what we call
[02:06:00] talked about today the result of which
[02:06:02] manifests itself in completing the
[02:06:04] mission
[02:06:05] so with that I want to thank you guys
[02:06:07] for being with us and thank you again
[02:06:09] for your service it's just outstanding
[02:06:12] and I wish you the best of luck can't
[02:06:13] wait to watch you grow as professionals
[02:06:15] and really look forward to maybe having
[02:06:17] you back
[02:06:20] all right thank you
[02:06:23] foreign
[02:06:29] [Music]
[02:06:50] [Applause]
[02:06:51] [Music]