# The Truth About Ultrasonic Record Cleaning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEkJQhoEHZI

[00:00] Hey everybody.
[00:02] Well, look, this is pretty exciting.
[00:04] We uh this is our very first live stream.
[00:07] Um I'm here with my partner in crime, Louie, and uh from uh Vinyl Latte.
[00:13] And we are we've got a great guest today.
[00:17] Um uh none other than than Charles Curumus.
[00:19] So uh we we're going to get a few numbers built up in the uh in the room here and uh and then we're going to we're going to we're going to fumble our way through this, aren't we, Lou?
[00:29] We're going to do our best.
[00:31] Be gentle with us because being a first one, we uh we we're just going to roll with the punches and uh and and and see where we go from there, aren't we?
[00:39] Yeah.
[00:39] We're just going to let it roll, guys.
[00:40] Really appreciate you jumping in, especially this being sort of our inaugural event here for the Audio File Show.
[00:48] And I think we're touching on a subject today that is really, really relevant to record collectors that are looking to get the maximum out of their system.
[00:56] um while we wait for everybody to join in and get settled and get their
[01:01] favorite cup of coffee or cocktail
[01:02] depending on what time of the day or where you are in the world.
[01:03] I I think um you know I I think when I think about the evolution Shane of of record cleaning and we're going to talk about record restoration later but when I think about the world of record cleaning you know the the the dishwasher was like all the rave and then you know uh and then people started to like vacuum cleaning and now ultrasonic seems to be a dominating the market right and everybody's curious about ultrasonic when it comes to record care and record maintenance.
[01:31] though I think this is a very uh relevant topic and I'm super excited about our guest because everybody I think knows him as the man behind a machine, but he's got such an interesting life.
[01:43] Man, this guy has done so much.
[01:45] I don't think people realize like the patents this guy has, the the type of work he's done.
[01:50] So, I'm super excited uh to pull him up and and get him on here.
[01:52] Uh hopefully in a minute or two, we'll get Charles plugged in.
[01:55] But what's your thoughts, Shane?
[01:57] Yeah, look,
[02:01] I I agree.
[02:05] Uh uh Charles is not just a pretty face as they say in the in the movies.
[02:07] He he is um he's definitely done a lot of things um prior to um you know his record restoration system.
[02:15] Uh and that's what this show is going to be about.
[02:19] The audio file show is going to be us talking to to industry people um about what they've done in and and for you guys, our audience, to get to know the people behind the brands.
[02:32] That that's really what we want this show to be about.
[02:36] We don't want interview about a about a a thing they've done done.
[02:41] We want this to be an opportunity for people to understand the the brains behind the product, the the the evolution of the product, the that what got the the the person to get to the point where this product was born.
[02:55] And and we want you guys to be part of this.
[02:57] We want you guys to be uh able to ask your questions.
[03:00] Um we've got uh uh Drago
[03:04] in here and uh uh Dan's a a a good and a big contributor on my channel.
[03:08] He's over there a lot.
[03:10] So, good day, Dan.
[03:12] It's great to see you here.
[03:14] And uh look, we you know, Rick's here as well.
[03:16] You know, look, it's it's we we do thank you all very much uh for joining us on this inaugural show.
[03:21] We're we're uh we're going to get to Charles in a second, but we just want to let a few numbers build up in the room and but this is what it's about.
[03:29] It's about the the interview behind the interview.
[03:31] This is what we want to do.
[03:33] We we want to do stuff that's not been done on YouTube before.
[03:37] We really want to get into the the bones of the of the people behind the products.
[03:41] So you guys get to know the person.
[03:43] Then you will of course want to know what they've done and why they have made the product they've made.
[03:48] So yeah, that's what this series is about.
[03:50] That's what we're going to do with it.
[03:51] Um we're going to, you know, get some crazy people in here.
[03:53] We want to get some other YouTube collaborators in here and talk to them.
[03:58] You and I are going to get on, aren't we, mate?
[04:00] We're just going to if we find something we want to have a chat about because we, you know, we've
[04:05] got a bug in our rear end about this or we don't like that or we do like this, then we're going to come on and we're going to talk to you guys.
[04:10] We're going to do it at the same time.
[04:11] Um, and we'll just let you know in our socials on our YouTube channel when we're going to do a show.
[04:18] Um but it'll be the same bat time, same bat channels channels and um you know and we'll and we will go from there and we'll cover everything and anything including any topics you guys might like to uh put to us.
[04:30] So that will be really interesting.
[04:34] But Charles will be here in about 30 seconds.
[04:36] So let me just share this before we get started.
[04:38] Um, this is meant to be, you know, if you've follow Shane's channel for a little while now, you know, we used to have the audio file series where we used to have the opportunity to invite the Avengers and industry experts to the show to kind of talk about a little bit behind them, not just their product, right?
[04:55] This was never meant to be a sales pitch of a product, but about about their passion, how they got started, kind of the the the manner, the lady behind the technology and and the brands that you
[05:06] know and love.
[05:08] The reason we flipped it to the show is because so many of y'all had some great questions that we just never had.
[05:11] We we didn't even think of them.
[05:13] We didn't even say, "Hey, oh that we like that's such a great question.
[05:16] Why didn't we ask that?"
[05:17] So that's why we're going live now.
[05:19] So you have a chance to interact and ask your question.
[05:21] So don't be shy.
[05:23] Go ahead and participate.
[05:25] I'm one of those people.
[05:27] I'm going to be honest.
[05:29] I'm like most probably the viewers on right now.
[05:31] You watch, but you don't interact, right?
[05:32] You just kind of like listen and you watch.
[05:34] We're asking to interact.
[05:36] That's why we did this.
[05:37] That's why it's a live show, guys.
[05:40] So hopefully uh don't be shy.
[05:42] Bust out those comments and uh you know come join us here.
[05:43] What do you think getting ready for Charles?
[05:44] Yeah, I think uh let let's bring the man in the room himself and and uh we'll kick this off.
[05:50] All right, it sounds good.
[05:52] Hopefully Charles is out there.
[05:53] We'll find out here in a moment.
[05:55] There he is.
[05:57] Presto changel.
[06:00] Hi everybody around the world on Shane's and Louis channels.
[06:03] Oh, this is great.
[06:05] Thanks for inviting me guys.
[06:05] Well, it's a pleasure to have you
[06:07] here, mate.
[06:09] Such a pleasure to have you here, Charles.
[06:12] Man, thank you so much for joining us here today.
[06:13] Where are you dialing in from, if you don't mind me asking, where are you based out of?
[06:16] Uh, well, I'm here in my home office in Westminster, Colorado.
[06:19] Oh, about a 15 to a 30 minute drive out of Denver, depending on traffic.
[06:28] And our uh traffic roads are a lot of them are tolls, and they're all made by Australian companies.
[06:31] So, they're taking all the money if you're on the toll road here.
[06:35] So, but they're great.
[06:37] They're the only roads that have no cracks for years.
[06:39] So, that's where I live.
[06:41] Uh, if I'm home,
[06:45] it's fantastic.
[06:47] Can I I'll invite uh or say hello to Steve.
[06:49] Steve the hard the hards here and and Steve is a another a great contributor on on on my channel as well.
[06:57] And I know he's probably watching uh Louis channel now.
[06:59] And hopefully that is the case.
[07:01] Uh do yourself a favor, mate.
[07:03] Get over there and uh if you're not subscribed, because Louis uh Louis uh pretty damn good at what he does.
[07:06] Um and
[07:09] we've got uh oh, we've got all kinds of people in the room starting to roll in here.
[07:13] So, thank you all very very much for uh for supporting us on this first live show.
[07:17] Um we we're we're going to get to questions.
[07:19] We've got a bit of a a bit of a background.
[07:22] My wife seems to be a bit of a star here.
[07:23] Have you noticed that, Louie?
[07:25] Um um as well, she's already popped in and said hello.
[07:27] And um she's at work.
[07:29] So, darling, what are you doing?
[07:31] You should be at work.
[07:34] Um, there you go.
[07:35] Hey, I just want to address this.
[07:37] Uh, for the first show, I don't think there's going to be a call-in, guys, but we'll probably end up uh making that happen in the future.
[07:41] Since this is Shane and I's first show live show, we already have enough logistics and stuff going on in the background to try to make this happen.
[07:47] But I can tell you what we can do.
[07:49] If you go ahead and put your comments in the chat, we'll go ahead and pull them up.
[07:52] That's how we can interact today.
[07:54] But great recommendation, Steve.
[07:56] Appreciate that.
[07:59] Yeah.
[07:59] Awesome.
[07:59] Well, um what do you say?
[08:02] Let's let's we've got a we've got a few questions that we've put together for for um for Charles Louie and um I'm
[08:09] happy.
[08:09] Do you want to kick the first one off and and uh get in there and uh let's let's put this man in the hot seat and let's find out what what's underneath his skin and what makes him tick.
[08:21] Yeah, Shane.
[08:21] Well, thank you for uh for passing over the mic.
[08:23] I, you know, for me, one of the things that I love about these series is really getting behind the person behind a brand.
[08:30] But Charles, what's interesting about you specifically, you kind of are the brand.
[08:34] Um, and and you also have a sidekick that I see everywhere and I have to ask, mate.
[08:37] I have to ask, what is the deal with S the rabbit?
[08:42] I need to know.
[08:45] I we need to know what the deal because every post that you have in social media, it's always S.
[08:48] Sal s's flown the world.
[08:52] He's been in cockpits.
[08:54] He's been in fancy restaurants.
[08:56] He's been at concerts.
[08:58] What what is the deal with Sal the rabbit?
[09:00] That has nothing to do with audio file, but I am just curious.
[09:02] I'll get out to know what what what's the deal with the rabbit, man.
[09:07] Hey, Drago.
[09:07] Greetings.
[09:07] Uh well, first of
[09:10] all, I was uh told by my better half, no rabbits in the video.
[09:19] You guys wanted to know what the story is.
[09:22] So, when we first started Kermis Audio, I came out with this logo here.
[09:28] If you guys can see it, uh there's a nice uh disco girl.
[09:34] Her name was Skip.
[09:34] And uh she's uh actually uh this is in the day when we called it cleaning.
[09:41] We still said restoration that we didn't really understand what what we were actually doing.
[09:47] We learned a lot.
[09:49] So I'll share that with you as the time comes or people ask.
[09:53] So that was the logo and it was on every machine and we sold a ton of machines in our first year.
[09:59] And uh my wife decided uh for my birthday in October.
[10:03] What do we give Charles who has more chachkis than you'll see some of them here than
[10:10] Carter's pills, little liver pills.
[10:13] What do I get him?
[10:13] Well, she got me S Rabbit.
[10:16] It's a Vandering hair out of the IKEA company.
[10:22] And uh basically it became the mascot.
[10:24] It used to be at all our trade shows.
[10:26] And for Christmas we got Sally Rabbit.
[10:29] So S and Sally sometimes travel together.
[10:33] Um, and uh, S actually is very good when I travel overseas to Australia.
[10:35] I sleep with the rabbit.
[10:39] Oh, yeah.
[10:41] Nice.
[10:41] It's great for jet lag.
[10:45] It really is.
[10:47] And now find someone sent me a YouTube thing where actually people are saying people need some comfort.
[10:53] So that's where we got Sal from.
[10:55] And I'm also a volunteer first responder now retired.
[10:58] And we did two things with the bunnies.
[11:00] Uh number one is we gave them out at the shows.
[11:06] Uh when we saw young children follow their moms and fathers, primarily the husband is always there with the
[11:12] wife.
[11:14] So the wife would get a bunny and so would the child.
[11:17] And uh when I arrive on a scene uh uh as first responder and I'm first on scene while the ambulance and fire departments are showing up,
[11:27] I have some bunnies in the back that I give to the kids that are in the car that's being involved in a motor vehicle accident and that's where the rabbits go.
[11:35] Unfortunately, the IKEA Corporation has decided to get rid of the Vandering hair.
[11:41] They now have junk rabbits.
[11:44] I'm going to have to copy this because we still have people that want a bunny.
[11:50] And uh we emptied my business partner in the UK, Kevin Jackson, got the last 40 or 50 rabbits from IKEA Europe and I bought the last 100 from IKEA here.
[12:02] So, we only have one left that we can give away.
[12:05] Yeah.
[12:10] So, that's bunny. And now audio file said, "Geez, I'm buying a$1,000
[12:12] System. I don't want a bunny.
[12:14] So, we came out with the uh you know the the Kuran Keris logo here on the back and now people want the bunny stickers.
[12:21] So, we got a cult. So, that's the story.
[12:24] Well, a question for you, Charles.
[12:26] Now, if we've got a daddy rabbit and a mommy rabbit, are you are we expecting any any babies anytime soon?
[12:33] I would love that because otherwise I'd have to go to a factory overseas somewhere and make more bunnies, but it hasn't happened yet.
[12:41] Ah, very good. Well, that that is very interesting and and I'm cute as anything behind you there.
[12:46] I mean, I I I now I see um Yeah, I can see what you're talking about.
[12:50] There is uh there was definitely a boy and a girl there.
[12:52] And you know what rabbits are like.
[12:53] I won't say any more than that.
[12:57] Yeah, they're eyeing my garden in the backyard right now.
[12:59] The the vegetables aren't ready yet.
[13:02] All right. Okay. Well, we've got some other great people in here.
[13:04] We've got uh Carmine's in here, too.
[13:06] um again a great contributor to uh and and he's we see Karma quite a bit and he's uh he's a
[13:14] pretty awesome guy with some great questions as well.
[13:16] So no doubt he'll be coming up with some questions.
[13:20] Um um now I I know I note that uh Dan has has asked a question here and it's um and so we might as well just kick into some of these questions because our questions will be some fill-in questions when we get to them.
[13:30] But you guys are are the reason we're doing this show.
[13:35] So we probably jump straight into this and Dan is asking Charles um about the discovery discovering record restoration process and talking about that.
[13:46] So it's all yours my friend.
[13:48] Well, it was very interesting uh those of you who may know me um I'm really not from the audio industry.
[13:55] Uh I uh during my high school years I uh worked Bill Leighton audio and audio shop.
[14:03] uh a Macintosh dealer in Montreal from 71 uh to 74 every uh weekend or Friday nights.
[14:07] And uh back in the 60s, 1966,
[14:15] I used to build my own audio equipment.
[14:18] And uh the way I got into this uh restoration business was totally by accident.
[14:23] Uh since 2006, I'm a volunteer with Global Sources Trade Shows.
[14:27] They're the people that put on the largest electronic show twice a year in Hong Kong.
[14:34] And since 20 2006 till co uh I was a speaker there twice a year.
[14:40] I've been to South Africa, Brazil, doing also trainings on how to help foreign buyers maneuver through Asia, primarily China, and how to avoid some of the pitfalls.
[14:54] And one of the folks in the audience uh came up to me and said, "We just bought the Rogers BBC company and we would like you, this is the Hong Kong group, we would like you to represent Rogers BBC globally."
[15:09] And I accepted the challenge.
[15:09] Uh and they said, "We know that, you know, you're a nerd and whatever."
[15:14] They found
[15:15] Out I building tube amplifiers and a radio station, a TV station when I was in the teens, if not in the eight and nine year old uh uh arena.
[15:27] So my first trade show was in here we go there 2014.
[15:33] Uh and Bison was in uh uh uh the Munich high-end show.
[15:38] She was singing with the Lawrence Audio folks and I was there with my Rogers BBC speakers looking at what was going on.
[15:49] I met an I became the Lawrence Audio uh representatives that she was representing obviously uh uh and singing for uh Lawrence uh from Taipei and I saw an ultrasonic machine sitting next to me being sold for nine grand.
[16:01] And I saw a vacuum system being sold on the other side of my booth for about the same money.
[16:09] And you know, and I will say I had a VPI 161.
[16:12] I bought it back in the 70s and I said, "Geez, you know, I use ultrasonics
[16:17] to clean circuit boards.
[16:19] We we manufacture homeland security equipment.
[16:21] Uh I invented digital video audio uh recording and mobile and fixed applications for the surveillance industry back in in the 80s, back in '89.
[16:30] And I said, there's something wrong.
[16:32] You know, an ultrasonic should be four, five, $600, you know, uh not 9,000.
[16:37] So, long story short, um this was a challenge.
[16:40] Uh um I I gave up on the Rogers BBC speakers because the Chinese could not figure out how to laminate birch plywood.
[16:47] Normally, if you take a veneer, you need to oppose it by 90 degrees and glue it.
[16:53] Otherwise, you have problems.
[16:55] So, 15 of the speakers sold in Montreal in heating season and winter, they all cracked.
[17:01] So, I ate 15 speakers.
[17:04] the manufacturer didn't even want to give anything.
[17:06] So, um I I said, "Let's take a look at what this ultrasonic and vacuum cleaning systems are."
[17:13] So, uh I got both machines, brought them back
[17:17] over to the States, didn't uh fall apart in United or get stolen.
[17:24] And uh I said, "They're not doing anything."
[17:25] I also took my vacuum machine out and I said, "I don't hear anything."
[17:29] you know, acoustically and using a spectrum analyzer, I didn't see any difference either.
[17:35] As a matter of fact, I saw a degradation of the system or of sound and the sound stage and the imagery.
[17:43] And the more I played the record, some of the pops that were hidden were back again.
[17:47] So, that's where it started back in 2014 where I said, "We got to figure this out."
[17:52] I did not want to come into this industry and go and sell a washing machine.
[17:59] I just wanted to find out for myself what's going on here, you know.
[18:05] And I still own the equipment that I earned working in Montreal.
[18:08] Uh uh my my tape directs, my tape realtore, uh Akai 747, the TC-1800, the Nakamichi Dragon.
[18:18] still have all that still being used.
[18:20] So to cut to the chase, I'm I'm I'm I'm fortunate I have a a thermal vac chamber where I can put materials in.
[18:29] It's a big microwave that I can turn temperature up and I can turn humidity up and I can do what we call advanced aging.
[18:37] Uh you'll see there are a lot of patents behind here and whatever.
[18:41] So I I'm not necessarily uh in the audio industry, but what I did is I bought uh six Hallotes records, all the same pressing and whatever.
[18:52] Um put them in this machine, uh turned all the temperature up 97% humidity, 97 degrees Fahrenheit, let everything cook for uh for three months.
[19:00] I did a recording before, both audio and electronically, spectrum.
[19:07] took it out, measured, saw a big difference.
[19:10] We accelerated aging.
[19:13] We had fungus growing on records.
[19:15] So, put it back in for another three months, took it out.
[19:17] Then, by then, I
[19:19] had five different machines.
[19:22] So, I then followed the manufacturer's instructions, whether it be an ultrasonic, whether it be a spin clean manual, uh, and and did the cleaning,
[19:32] put them back in for three months.
[19:34] we had more stuff growing on there.
[19:37] Took the measurements, put it in another three month cycle and then finally in between all of this I then said, why are we not improving the sound stage?
[19:47] Why are we not improving the output of the cartridge, the dynamic range, the timber, the harmonics, the resonances where music lies.
[20:03] Yeah.
[20:03] So, I'm fortunate by going to Japan, fortunate by going to Taiwan for other businesses, went to Denon, went to Sony Records, learned about records, and learned about this miracle thing called a stamper.
[20:17] There we go.
[20:19] Yeah.
[20:19] >> I learned about this is what we want to
[20:21] play. Everything else is immaterial.
[20:26] >> Yeah. So, I learned how records are made
[20:29] and I found out by going to um
[20:33] University of Colorado down the street,
[20:35] their engineering department, their
[20:36] chemistry department and learned that a
[20:41] PVC records repel water
[20:44] and water cleaning solutions and
[20:46] whatever the droplets are larger than
[20:49] the records groove. So, that's why we
[20:51] can't do anything. And what we're doing
[20:53] when we are cleaning, we are doing
[20:57] surface cleaning, but we're not removing
[21:00] the three elements that we've discovered
[21:02] that we need to remove.
[21:04] >> Yeah. Down in the groove.
[21:06] >> Down in the groove. So, it's actually
[21:08] three things. The first thing is
[21:10] whatever we use to air or vacuum dry on
[21:13] a record. Records that are Keris word
[21:17] restored come out dry. No vacuum, no air
[21:20] air drying. And
[21:22] >> so we have a film. We then also have a
[21:25] film that's created over time by a
[21:28] record being stuck in a record sleeve
[21:30] for a week, 10 years, 20 years, 70
[21:33] years, 100 years. The majority of
[21:35] scratches that you see on a record
[21:37] surface are scratches not necessarily in
[21:41] the plastic but on the outgassing and
[21:44] the breathing of the plasticizer coming
[21:46] out of the record and being stuck in the
[21:49] sleeve. And PVC sleeves do the same. So
[21:53] that's a film that we also need to
[21:55] remove somehow. And if I I equate this
[21:58] film and that's a recent discovery about
[22:00] a year now where after restoration there
[22:02] no more scratches. So it's your new car
[22:05] smell.
[22:06] >> You smell the new car. It's all the
[22:09] plastics are exhaling and the film on
[22:12] your windshield is what we see on the
[22:14] record. So that had to be removed. And
[22:18] then obviously the record has to pop out
[22:21] of the press.
[22:24] If it doesn't pop out of the press, it
[22:26] looks like this. Forget about the chip
[22:28] here. I'm just going to move. There we
[22:29] go. It looks like this. It's being pried
[22:31] out. Why? When the record is being
[22:35] manufactured,
[22:37] it's being it's seeing two stampers
[22:39] compress a piece of plastic and the
[22:43] plastic gets squeezed. Three minutes
[22:45] later, it comes out. And like Michael
[22:47] Fmer said when we first started and our
[22:50] first show in 2017, there's no such
[22:53] thing as a release agent. We don't see
[22:56] Pam being sprayed onto the stamper to
[23:00] allow the record to pop out in three or
[23:02] four minutes. Of course not. It comes
[23:05] out and surfaces out of this piece of
[23:08] plastic. So long story short, we created
[23:11] a system based on understanding that
[23:16] water with or without a soap in it is
[23:18] repelled by the record. The droplets of
[23:21] water or liquids and cleaning solutions
[23:24] are larger than the groove. So you can't
[23:26] get in the groove.
[23:27] >> Yeah.
[23:28] >> So how do we get into that? So that's
[23:30] where again going to the university
[23:32] library. I don't like internet. A lot of
[23:34] the stories on ultrasonics, even by
[23:36] so-called experts, are incorrect. So, I
[23:40] found out how to change the charge of
[23:42] the record to be opposite to that of the
[23:45] water. That then allows me to use
[23:47] cavitation where bubbles rise, they
[23:50] implode, they're now drawn to the record
[23:52] and they vacuum out. They suck out
[23:55] through a plasma action, a plasma wave
[23:58] if you want to call it. Some people term
[24:00] that it's really not correct that a lot
[24:02] of the savants are saying that that
[24:05] we're vacuuming things and you just
[24:08] can't put a record in a machine and let
[24:09] it sit there for 5 minutes or 3 minutes
[24:12] and a green light says it's ready. We've
[24:14] dried it for you. We need the the the
[24:17] charge that I found that works gets
[24:21] washed off. I need to use a spray and I
[24:25] need to use a brush to change the charge
[24:28] of the record to be opposite to that of
[24:31] water.
[24:31] >> Yeah. All right. So, Charles, let me
[24:33] double click on that if you don't mind
[24:34] because the big thing that always people
[24:36] say is water is bipolar. So, how do you
[24:38] change the the charge?
[24:40] >> Ah. Ah. Number one,
[24:43] water droplets or water is a dipole.
[24:48] Okay. It's a dipole. And uh if you
[24:52] consider for example a a glass rod, a
[24:57] glass rod has no charge. Uh I I use this
[25:00] example in in speaking to elementary and
[25:03] high school students that I've been
[25:05] asked to come and talk about this nerd
[25:08] that's gone into this crazy business
[25:10] with this washing machine. Julian from
[25:14] Margoulus would love that. Yeah. This
[25:15] this restoration system. Well, I can
[25:18] take a silk cloth and I rub that glass
[25:22] rod and now I induce a positive charge.
[25:26] So, the proof is I now bring that rod to
[25:30] a faucet of water. Without inducing a
[25:33] charge, the water goes straight down by
[25:35] using a silk cloth and now charging that
[25:38] glass rod. Now, the water is attracted
[25:41] to the glass rod. So, you can do that in
[25:45] your home. So here
[25:48] >> well let's get
[25:50] >> so so to to to just finish this is a
[25:53] simple charge tester I can test the
[25:56] charge of water which is minus.098763
[25:59] 098763
[26:00] kilov volts and the charge of a record
[26:03] which is minus 7876
[26:06] whatever kilov volts
[26:09] >> they repel each other change the charge
[26:11] of the record ah my record now is plus
[26:15] 0.763
[26:18] kilov volts
[26:19] >> and as the record spins in our machine
[26:21] that's why unfortunately you need to go
[26:22] in and out to remove all these layers
[26:25] the charge goes back to what it was
[26:27] before
[26:28] >> so That's what taught me about what we
[26:31] need to do to ultrasonic technology to
[26:36] clean, in my case, restore a record
[26:39] because we're actually going down. So I
[26:42] guess some of that secret source that
[26:45] we're talking about here without giving
[26:46] any IP away is that the the difference
[26:50] here is is we need to have a negative
[26:52] charge on on either the medium or the or
[26:56] the or what's going into the medium and
[26:58] the other's got to be positive so that
[27:00] you we get an attraction that can start
[27:02] that process of getting the deep
[27:04] cleaning into the groove happening. Is
[27:06] that right?
[27:07] >> Yeah, that's that's that's absolutely
[27:09] correct. and and my industry peers
[27:11] really aren't interested in the work
[27:14] that you need to do. I mean, we need to
[27:16] go and go through all these layers in
[27:20] and out of the machine three or four
[27:21] times. The record comes out virtually
[27:24] dry as you guys can contest and know,
[27:27] >> but uh people want convenience. Uh, I
[27:31] take a look at it. If someone sold, if
[27:33] someone has a $3,000 stereo system or a
[27:36] $300,000 stereo system, doesn't it make
[27:40] sense to do a little extra work on near
[27:43] maybe your $200 record now to play this?
[27:47] So, that's one thing that I learned. The
[27:49] other is about frequency. Very, very
[27:52] confusing. Everyone forgets that we have
[27:55] three levels. Remember, we have whatever
[27:58] coating is on the record from whatever
[28:00] you air or vacuum dry. We have the
[28:04] outgassing of the plasticizer amplified
[28:07] by the record being stuck in a sleeve.
[28:10] >> Heaven forbid a PVC sleeve outgassing as
[28:12] well. So, um how do we accomplish
[28:17] removing these materials? Well, if we
[28:20] take a look at ultrasonics, what happens
[28:22] is uh we need an we need to clean an
[28:25] oil, right? It's the film. the first two
[28:27] layers top down.
[28:29] It's a film. 25 kHz is the right
[28:32] frequency for it. Why? We don't have a
[28:35] lot of detail that we're trying to
[28:36] remove. Remember, we're trying to remove
[28:38] the oil. Okay.
[28:40] >> Yeah.
[28:40] >> So, I need something that's close to 25
[28:43] kHz. What are we trying to remove next
[28:46] to those films? We're trying to remove
[28:49] dirt, fungus, dander, particles,
[28:52] whatever. They're usually between three
[28:55] and five microns in size. Okay.
[28:58] >> So, I need to be around 35 kilohertz to
[29:03] be able to remove both the oil and the
[29:08] particles, but it's in reverse order.
[29:11] All my my contemporaries, oh, we're
[29:13] going to do 120 kHz.
[29:16] 120 kHz. 120 kilhertz is used to remove
[29:22] submicron materials. Bacteria. My needle
[29:25] ain't hitting bacteria. It's not hitting
[29:28] it. It's used to clean substrates when
[29:31] we're building silicon chips and
[29:33] whatever. It's used for endosc
[29:35] endoscopic uh um endoscopic u how should
[29:39] I call it? Um um u endoscopic uh cameras
[29:44] and whatever. So I don't want Shane's
[29:46] DNA when I visit his doctor in Australia
[29:49] and I get the camera shoved up. You know
[29:51] where? Okay. So that's what it's for.
[29:54] But people say yes like J.R. BLA is a
[29:56] great guy. We work together between
[29:58] alignment of the cartridge and the tone
[30:00] arm and playing the stamper. We have
[30:03] submicron detail, but you cannot get to
[30:06] the submicron detail without um without
[30:10] being able to first remove those
[30:12] coatings. Well, in fact, we've had JR on
[30:14] the on on the on our previous um uh our
[30:18] audio file series. So, uh JR is also a
[30:21] friend of ours. And and look, there's
[30:23] another couple of questions here which I
[30:25] want to get to. So, we want to try and
[30:26] roll through these.
[30:27] >> It's for you guys. It's for you guys.
[30:29] You know, I'm there for you.
[30:31] >> So, I Steve's asking a really good
[30:34] question too here about cavitation can
[30:36] cause erosion. How do we manage this? Um
[30:39] so, is that is that something we can
[30:41] talk about, Charles? What you I love is
[30:45] is is he a submariner by chance or a uh
[30:49] uh a naval officer or a captain of a
[30:51] master mariner like my father was we
[30:54] have cavitation that occurs on
[30:56] propellers anyone has a boat a pleasure
[30:59] boat or whatever you see pits and
[31:01] whatever we need to understand what
[31:03] we're trying to do okay what we have is
[31:06] basically uh here I have a
[31:10] here I Not my prompts, guys.
[31:13] >> Here's something he repeat prepared
[31:14] earlier.
[31:15] >> There we go.
[31:19] There we go. So,
[31:21] this is what we're dealing with. Okay.
[31:23] This is a tank of water. Okay. And uh
[31:27] and to answer your question, by the way,
[31:28] no, we are not destroying a record using
[31:31] cavitation. There are a couple of
[31:33] caveats to that which we'll talk about,
[31:35] but this is a tank of any ultrasonic.
[31:38] Underneath we have you can call them
[31:40] speakers. I they're actually transducers
[31:43] and they're driven just like an audio
[31:45] system. We have 25 kHz that I mentioned
[31:48] before which is cavitation that creates
[31:51] a proper size bubble for me to remove
[31:53] oil. Uh so it's an ultrasonic generator
[31:56] or it's an audio amplifier. Consider it
[31:59] that 45 kHz, 35 kHz, what they do, they
[32:03] create waves and you have uneven and
[32:06] even waves depending as you go up to the
[32:09] surface of the water in any ultrasonic
[32:12] machine's tank. So we have violent
[32:16] violent cavitation. You can put an
[32:19] aluminum foil sheet into a ultrasonic, a
[32:23] 40 kHz ultrasonic for example, 45 kHz
[32:27] ultrasonic and it will tear the aluminum
[32:31] foil apart
[32:32] >> and it will tear it if it's a real
[32:36] ultrasonic.
[32:37] >> Okay? So we need to consider frequency.
[32:40] So the higher you go in frequency, the
[32:44] smaller the bubble size that the more
[32:47] intensity I'll throw a number out. Uh
[32:51] the 35 kHz I'm doing 510 miles an hour.
[32:55] Uh 45 kHz I'm doing 110 miles an hour.
[32:59] Okay,
[33:00] >> they're actually kilometers per hour. So
[33:02] there is a measurement. Okay. So, not
[33:04] only do you need to take a look at the
[33:07] frequency of ultrasonic of what you're
[33:09] trying to clean, but also you need
[33:11] resonance.
[33:12] >> You need to be able to
[33:16] if you want temper
[33:18] the collapsing bubbles. So, the layman's
[33:23] way is here's an aluminum foil record
[33:27] and you see even cavitation from the
[33:30] edge of the record to the dead wax area.
[33:32] >> Okay.
[33:33] Yeah.
[33:34] >> And uh to to to get into that also we
[33:38] use to answer your question and move on
[33:40] to the next
[33:43] Mr. FM didn't believe me that uh a NASA
[33:45] test. I worked on a space shuttle in
[33:48] 1978 and we used 6tx4t aluminum sheets
[33:53] uh to prove cavitation. So this is
[33:55] cavitation meter number one that I
[33:57] bought for Mr. Fmer. You see it on some
[33:59] of our educational slides. It's a
[34:01] $910,000 device. He said it's a cattle
[34:04] prod. Not acceptable.
[34:07] Okay. So,
[34:08] >> as farmers, some firmer would say. Yeah.
[34:11] >> So, we So, we bought a $28,000
[34:14] cavitation meter that with its prod.
[34:17] There we go. Bar. By the way, this is
[34:20] fun on the floor. I'm glad we don't have
[34:21] a real rabbit running around here.
[34:24] But this is the prod.
[34:27] >> This is the prod. And what happens is I
[34:30] can plot X, Y and Z, X, Y and Z the
[34:34] energy in the tank.
[34:36] >> Yeah.
[34:36] >> So this here proves that to answer your
[34:40] question
[34:42] 40 kHz or less safe. Don't ionize your
[34:46] record 40 kHz and more because you're
[34:49] going to tear it apart because what
[34:52] you're doing is you're now changing the
[34:54] charge of the record to accept that
[34:56] violent cavitation. We had one
[34:58] manufacturer that had 40 kilhertz
[35:00] machine and sorry 46 kHz machine. It
[35:04] ruined 800 and some odd records. The
[35:06] manufacturer disappeared and is now back
[35:09] with a 26 kHz machine. Wrong frequency.
[35:13] So no, you're not going to destroy the
[35:16] record at all. At all.
[35:20] >> We have uh Thank you, Charles. We do
[35:21] have some more questions coming in. Uh,
[35:24] we got one from Steve asking, "How many
[35:26] plays can you get from a record before
[35:28] you start to notice degradation
[35:31] in sound quality?"
[35:33] >> Ah, very good. Uh, great question.
[35:36] >> If if if
[35:38] you send over to me, I'm on emails
[35:40] charlesceraudio.com.
[35:43] There are certain people in YouTube that
[35:46] have played records for a thousand spins
[35:50] using a Cly ruby red piece of plastic
[35:55] needle and has not affected the record
[35:57] whatsoever.
[35:59] Not at all. Not at all. The the
[36:02] footprint that you have a a records
[36:04] groove. Here we go. Another prop here.
[36:08] [Music]
[36:10] There we go. there. A record's groove
[36:14] looks like this. There we go. There. So,
[36:18] basically, we're six microns on the
[36:19] bottom. Okay. The RAIA standard is a
[36:22] U-shape. Six microns on the bottom and
[36:26] then we have 35, 45, 50 microns on the
[36:29] top and the middle. It moves with the
[36:31] music. It's not linear.
[36:33] >> Okay? If you take a inexpensive
[36:36] microscope, you'll see that there's a
[36:38] little wave in there. It goes with the
[36:39] music. So our uh needles are submicron
[36:46] or not submicron. Yeah. Well, yeah, they
[36:48] are submicron elliptical or conical. So
[36:50] you are not going to with the contact
[36:53] area that you are, you're not going to
[36:55] go and eat your record apart. You're not
[36:57] you're not okay.
[36:58] >> Yes. with those ruby reds and whatever
[37:01] because now the coal friction
[37:03] coefficient of friction is so high and
[37:06] we're you're now on the surface not
[37:08] necessarily in the middle certainly not
[37:10] on the bottom that's when we see u uh
[37:14] see damage as a matter of fact um I have
[37:18] with me we're going to answer the
[37:20] questions this isn't the Kerma show this
[37:22] is your show
[37:23] >> that I got I got a car record player
[37:26] >> and it uses a cheap needle And it spins
[37:29] a 45 RPM record. And guess what? There's
[37:32] a little pan underneath that picks up
[37:34] the black dust.
[37:36] >> Oh dear, mate. It's a snow plow. Look
[37:38] out. Now
[37:39] >> it's in my Corvair. It's in my Corvair.
[37:41] I took it out just to show you guys.
[37:43] >> Well, look, look, and we will keep
[37:45] rolling because one of the questions
[37:46] we're getting asked on several occasions
[37:49] here is all about why is an ultrasonic
[37:52] machine, Let's just talk about yours,
[37:54] Charles. Why are they so loud? Why are
[37:56] they loud?
[37:58] My ultrasonic machine isn't loud
[38:01] because I'm using a frequency of 35 kHz
[38:05] with a 70 uh with a 70 uh khertz
[38:09] resonance which is air pressure that
[38:11] evens up the cavitation. Uh you unplug
[38:15] my motor, it's just in the background.
[38:19] The ones that you hear are the ones that
[38:22] are 25 and 26 kHz. These are the
[38:25] machines that are identified. They look
[38:27] like uh basins that are metal, like a
[38:31] stainless steel or aluminum cabinet. Uh
[38:34] you need ear muffs or industrial uh
[38:38] isolation headphones because they're
[38:41] very loud. And remember, I mentioned an
[38:43] ultrasonic really is a stereo or it's a
[38:46] sound system. You have a generator,
[38:47] which is the amp. You got a frequency
[38:50] and then afterwards you either hear it
[38:52] or you don't. So if you hear a noisy
[38:55] ultrasonic first, it's it's it's used
[38:58] for cleaning metal parts and always use
[39:01] an industrial protective head head uh
[39:04] protection device or earbuds.
[39:07] Yeah. And and you will not u uh and you
[39:10] will not hear uh 35 kHz per se. Um you
[39:16] will hear the collapsing of the bubbles
[39:18] as they rise. They implode and they're
[39:21] amplified a bit in the tank. So, uh, you
[39:24] will not, u you will hear a little
[39:28] buzzing sound because there is a buzz,
[39:30] but it isn't a 26 kHz audio frequency.
[39:34] >> Okay.
[39:36] Um, have you got something you might
[39:37] like to ask, Louie?
[39:40] >> Yeah, I'm soon as I can get over to it.
[39:43] Here we go. We got another one in here.
[39:44] Charles looking for a recommendation on
[39:46] a vegan alternative to the silk cloth.
[39:51] Do you have any recommendations?
[39:53] >> Uh
[39:55] uh I'm trying to understand the
[39:56] question. The silk cloth that I talked
[39:58] about was um basically to induce a
[40:02] charge. Okay. Uh into a glass rod a ve
[40:07] you know I have no idea.
[40:12] >> Is that is that a trick question?
[40:14] >> It may be maybe maybe we need a little
[40:16] bit more clarity in in the chat. So
[40:18] yeah. Yeah.
[40:19] >> Well, I mean, okay, so we've we've we've
[40:21] touched on the machine a little bit
[40:22] here. Let's let's get back to the
[40:25] genesis of what these these shows are
[40:27] all about. And uh and we really
[40:29] appreciate you guys um typing in your
[40:32] questions. This is what this is all
[40:33] about. It's us bringing our audience
[40:36] into our guests so that they can ask
[40:39] they can answer questions without
[40:41] notice. And sometimes they go well and
[40:42] sometimes they don't. That's live
[40:43] television. That's the fun of the whole
[40:45] thing. But Charles, let's talk a little
[40:47] bit more about the genesis of Charles
[40:50] Curumus, where where it all came from,
[40:52] where it started, what let's let's let's
[40:55] get our audience to understand a little
[40:57] bit about what got you to where you are
[41:00] now, starting from, you know, from the
[41:02] early years.
[41:04] >> Uh, well, uh,
[41:07] I I was a nerd. I was a nerd. I I I
[41:11] think I'm still the only high school
[41:13] student in all of Canada, if not all of
[41:16] North America, that in high school was
[41:18] exempt for five years of fizzed. I
[41:22] remember in 1971, Mr. Kowalsski, our
[41:25] fizzed teacher, going up to uh uh Mrs.
[41:28] Schultz, our principal, after two weeks
[41:30] and say, "Charles can't dribble a
[41:32] basketball. Um he can't kick a
[41:36] football." Um he's good on the Palmer
[41:38] horse. He certainly won't go more than
[41:41] 10 feet up on the ropes. Give him the
[41:43] keys to the electronics projectionist
[41:45] room. Have him handle all the films for
[41:47] projectors and and cassettes and
[41:50] whatever we had in those days. And uh
[41:53] give him 68% on his high school note. So
[41:57] it was the only um mark that I had in
[42:00] that was 68. Everything else was 90 plus
[42:02] if not 99. But I was lucky in Montreal.
[42:06] We had uh my my classmates were playing
[42:09] football uh soccer in America outside at
[42:12] -40 C which equals -40 Fahrenheit in the
[42:16] snow in shorts and I had an office with
[42:18] a couch and a coffee maker and a tea
[42:20] boiler. So but going back uh being the
[42:24] nerd I started uh building u tube
[42:28] amplifiers
[42:29] uh when back in 196566.
[42:33] So I was barely 10 years old. I built my
[42:35] own speakers. Uh I asked my dad at
[42:38] Christmas when I was eight, nine years
[42:39] old, get me a drill. I still have the
[42:41] Black & Decker drill. The next year,
[42:43] give me a jigsaw. I got a jigsaw. Next
[42:46] year, you know, we we were very um first
[42:50] generation Canadian. My parents came
[42:52] from Latia. We didn't have much. Uh ne I
[42:56] never had anything that I did not get.
[42:59] Uh we didn't go to restaurants except uh
[43:02] Woolwart's cafeteria once a month. Uh no
[43:06] no movie theaters, no uh uh no baseball,
[43:10] hockey games, whatever. Um you know, so
[43:14] uh you know, a $30 tool or $15 tool. So
[43:17] I started building things uh in in high
[43:20] school uh built an illegal radio
[43:22] station. um illegal television station.
[43:26] Uh um I got in trouble in college making
[43:30] double-sided electrical cords. So when
[43:34] the fire when when we pull the fire
[43:36] alarm and the fire alarm goes off on the
[43:39] fifth bell every floor during exam
[43:41] period, we put the two mail plugs across
[43:44] the aisle, cross list them and blow all
[43:47] the blreers on all the floors. So nerds
[43:51] rule. As a matter of fact, uh I became
[43:53] CEO of Garta Technology and 12 years
[43:56] later, what happened uh was all of a
[43:59] sudden, you know, phone call comes in
[44:00] and it's the sergeant from my college
[44:03] and they're asking for me and I say,
[44:05] "Oh, very good. They want a security
[44:07] survey." So, I went back to Vanier
[44:09] College in Montreal like 15 years later.
[44:12] Um, uh, Captain Vio was there, Sarjan
[44:15] Breton were still there, the security
[44:17] guards, and they said, "Charles, we want
[44:19] you to do a a security survey." Well, I
[44:22] had my first beer in 1977 with my friend
[44:26] Al. He's on the he's watching tonight in
[44:29] a sh French Canadian, let's sing and
[44:32] dance in downtown Montreal. Uh, and uh,
[44:35] so now he's able to drink a beer 12
[44:37] years later. Uh, so we went across to
[44:40] the tavern and I said, "Well, you know,
[44:42] why do you choose me for your security
[44:44] company for a survey? We know everything
[44:46] that you did, making hydrogen, blowing
[44:48] it up in the student mall, uh, your your
[44:51] shenanigans with the electric. Who else
[44:53] better to protect you?" So, so, uh, so
[44:57] that became an interesting sales tool.
[45:00] So moving moving along. Um uh I all here
[45:06] uh my my wife calls this the museum
[45:09] here. Uh here there's an interesting
[45:12] shortwave radio here. He asked about me.
[45:14] Uh this was 1966.
[45:17] Um I had that in my house as a matter of
[45:21] fact. Uh here's a picture um in 1972
[45:26] with that same radio set.
[45:28] >> Nice hair.
[45:30] nice hairdo. So, I was a shortwave
[45:33] listener through ele through elementary
[45:35] school and building audio equipment and
[45:39] um and then obviously uh then that led
[45:42] to ham radio. So, all my ham radio
[45:45] equipment is still here from 1967
[45:48] [Music]
[45:50] >> all there. All Yu, all vintage. Um we
[45:54] did some work for GPS uh products for
[45:57] icon. So I have a one of the top of the
[45:59] line icon radios there. Uh but uh uh
[46:03] this is the museum. Uh I got a lot of
[46:05] stuff and I met a lot of people in my uh
[46:08] in my career and the fun part was
[46:11] working on the space shuttle in 1978. So
[46:14] I was 22 years old and that's where I
[46:16] learned about ultrasonic cleaning which
[46:18] has come to haunt me now in my
[46:21] professional career here selling the
[46:23] machine since 2017 because Fmer said
[46:26] there's no such thing as aluminum foil
[46:29] tests. So in Canada we did the uh
[46:31] Canadian space arm the Canada arm and I
[46:34] was a test integration technician there
[46:37] and uh uh here we go. This is picture of
[46:42] Keras. There we go. In 1978
[46:46] in front of the Anic E satellite.
[46:49] >> Wow.
[46:50] >> There we go. Nice mustache. And this was
[46:53] actually a Polaroid. We weren't allowed
[46:54] to take cameras in. We used Polaroids
[46:57] with oscilloscopes. So, I stole the
[46:59] engineering uh uh Polaroid and took a
[47:02] picture and it's still here.
[47:05] >> Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, so that's
[47:07] kind of so that's kind of, you know,
[47:09] getting involved in in in uh in in in
[47:12] hobbies. And in those days, uh Shane and
[47:15] Louie, we had Radio Shack, we had Heath
[47:17] Kits.
[47:18] >> Yeah.
[47:19] >> Um you know, my son's the best gift I
[47:21] ever got from my son was Christmas maybe
[47:24] five years ago. A green t-shirt military
[47:27] says nerd. That's for me. And son of
[47:30] nerd for my son.
[47:33] So, so um so anything I did, you know,
[47:36] all these patents up here, it's it's
[47:39] it's it's
[47:43] um people that know me, I share my
[47:46] enthusiasm.
[47:48] Um I'm um I I like to look underneath
[47:52] the hood. Is it a four-cylinder? Is it
[47:54] an eight cylinder? You know, is it gas?
[47:56] Is it diesel? Uh I asked questions. And
[48:01] when I was working at Bill Leighton
[48:03] audio audio shop in in Montreal 71 to uh
[48:09] 76 or 74 I should say. Um I met uh Dr.
[48:14] Watts from Disc Printer. Well, he taught
[48:18] me about cleaning brushes. His patent
[48:21] expired. Guess what? I recreated a 10
[48:24] micron brush to get into that small
[48:26] groove. not one of those 35 micron
[48:29] brushes that you buy that do nothing.
[48:33] >> So, I had peers. I met the I met the
[48:35] engineers from Quad. I met Mr.
[48:37] Nakamichi. Um uh and and and and the
[48:41] salespeople in the store and the owners,
[48:43] they taught you. So, here I am now. I do
[48:49] a lot of sponsoring. I love Andbison and
[48:51] Danielle Jacques. You see them at all
[48:53] the audio shows hopefully. Uh uh Shane,
[48:56] you see them down in Australia. But uh
[49:00] on Friday nights during school uh or
[49:03] sorry after school, I'd walk from my
[49:05] house with my friend Robert Kachuga. Uh
[49:09] ended up at Heathkit at 6:00 at night.
[49:12] Ended up at uh Sonar, which is um
[49:16] Filtronique owned by Danielle Jacqu. I
[49:18] did not know that at the time. looking
[49:20] at all their um uh uh folks and
[49:24] whatever. Then took the subway down, saw
[49:27] the uh uh Radio Lawrence, the shortwave
[49:30] radio guy with Grundig and whatever the
[49:33] audio center. Then worked at Bill
[49:35] Leighton audio. Then before closing time
[49:38] went over to the audio shop. Audio shop,
[49:40] by the way, in Montreal in those days
[49:42] was the engineering lab for speakers for
[49:45] Macintosh. So when the store closed
[49:47] 9:30, we're upstairs, the boys are
[49:50] drinking all of their stuff and we're
[49:52] just drinking Coke or Pepsi or whatever.
[49:55] >> So I've had a wonderful exposure to all
[49:59] of these people that took you in.
[50:02] >> We want young kids to get into this,
[50:05] >> you know.
[50:06] >> I think that's also I mean getting off
[50:08] the topic and on this this part of the
[50:10] reason why I think Lou and I have
[50:12] created our channels. Um and and and I
[50:15] like to I mean I've been in this
[50:17] industry in one form or another from a a
[50:19] music collector through to uh the sorts
[50:22] of things that I've done in the industry
[50:23] for the best part of 40 years. I'm a 54
[50:26] year old guy and I started listening to
[50:28] music when I pestering my mom to buy
[50:30] records when I was 12. So it's more than
[50:33] 50 years and so 40 years and um and it
[50:37] it comes from a love of wanting to share
[50:39] the knowledge back and I see that in you
[50:42] too Charles. It's it's it's it's because
[50:44] people can't know until they know. And
[50:47] and and there's a there's a you've got I
[50:50] I like to think that what I try to do is
[50:53] get that knowledge out to people to
[50:55] educate them so they don't make the
[50:57] mistakes that a lot of us have made. Um
[51:00] getting to where we've got to and and uh
[51:02] and if we can do that, if I can do that,
[51:04] I guess the older you get, the more you
[51:06] you like I like to give back to the
[51:08] industry as opposed to taking from it.
[51:10] And that's that's what's been important
[51:12] important for me. I know the same.
[51:14] >> It's so important. Yeah, Shane, I I want
[51:16] to build right off what you said because
[51:17] it's so important because there's so
[51:19] much great knowledge out there right now
[51:21] with inside of this world, but a lot of
[51:24] it is I mean I'm just going to come out
[51:27] and say it. I'm sorry if it offends
[51:28] anybody, but a lot of the generation is
[51:30] becoming a lot older. They're going
[51:31] towards retirement and and and
[51:34] everything and there's so much wealth of
[51:35] information and a hungry new audience
[51:38] coming into this, right? There's been a
[51:40] we keep you so vinyl a latte, right? We
[51:43] keep hearing about vinyl revival and a
[51:45] resurgence, but actually audio file
[51:46] stuff there's a resurgence for that and
[51:48] people are now getting into really nice
[51:50] home theater systems, really nice
[51:51] twochannel audio systems, getting into
[51:53] nice DAXs. There's I mean it's not just
[51:55] of records. I know we're we're talking
[51:57] about record restoration here today, but
[51:59] but there's there's so many new folks
[52:01] that are passionate about this hobby. We
[52:03] definitely need that knowledge transfer.
[52:05] And what what I feel this is just me
[52:07] passionate. We need to support the local
[52:09] hi-fi shops because that's where you get
[52:11] that knowledge transfer. There's great
[52:13] to buy online. They're convenient. You
[52:15] could do a lot of great research there,
[52:17] but man, support your local because
[52:19] those guys have, to Charles's point,
[52:21] just just decades worth of knowledge
[52:23] that they're willing to to share with
[52:25] you. You just need to go spend the time
[52:26] there.
[52:27] >> Yeah. Yeah. I uh I saw a question that
[52:30] came in. What's the oldest record that
[52:32] I've restored? Um well um
[52:37] not necessarily a record u the Library
[52:40] of Congress again I'm disruptive. I've
[52:44] proven that you you don't use you don't
[52:47] use any chemical on any recorded med
[52:50] media unless you've checked with what
[52:53] the media you're cleaning is made out of
[52:55] and whether the chemicals are um
[52:59] aggressive to PVC vinyl. Okay. If you
[53:02] have machines that have pumps, whether
[53:05] they are um affected by um neoprene and
[53:10] rubber and here are record cylinders.
[53:13] Okay. Um John Lean is a large collector
[53:17] in the states of these. He's part of the
[53:20] ARSE, American Record Society of
[53:23] Collections. And I've been working on
[53:25] using how to use ultrasonics to restore
[53:28] records. And there are 30, 40, 50,000 of
[53:31] them over at the Library of Congress.
[53:33] And they gave up because what they were
[53:35] doing is here, if you take a look at
[53:37] this is a pretty clean one, but you do
[53:39] not see the uh the grooves. They were
[53:43] playing the the cylinder
[53:46] uh with 30 40 grams and cracking them.
[53:49] So they gave up. And these have chance
[53:51] of Indians recorded with the Edison horn
[53:56] by vibrating the needle and then
[53:58] creating the sound vibrations on the the
[54:03] cylinder.
[54:05] So three out of the five different types
[54:08] of cylinders I can now restore.
[54:13] And
[54:14] everyone thought that the fungus among
[54:17] us is Mr. Fmer's great line. Uh the
[54:20] fungus among us uh um this isn't fungus
[54:25] discovered is these have cotton inside.
[54:29] These have cotton. There we go. Here.
[54:31] There. There. These have cotton inside.
[54:33] Obviously someone put tissue in here.
[54:35] And these have cotton that were glued
[54:37] into this cardboard can. Just like a
[54:40] record outgasses. What happens when you
[54:43] have a cylinder in here for
[54:47] 150 years?
[54:50] It coats your cylinder.
[54:54] It is not fungus eating the cylinder.
[54:59] >> Yeah, right.
[55:00] >> So, one of our colleagues from the Radio
[55:03] Club of America, Professor Ammeritus, uh
[55:06] Jim Braall, just sent a little note and
[55:08] he said, "Uh, again, what's the oldest
[55:11] that you've done?" Well, with the Radio
[55:13] Club of America, we went and visited on
[55:17] our annual banquet to KDKA radio in
[55:19] Pittsburgh. KDKA is the oldest
[55:22] commercial broadcasting company
[55:24] celebrating their 100th anniversary
[55:28] when CO hit. The year prior, we visited
[55:31] their transmitter site and I, Mr.
[55:35] Walkabout Anywhere, I did a walkabout,
[55:38] guys in Australia. I know what that is.
[55:40] >> There you go. I went downstairs in the
[55:42] leaky transmission site and I found 10
[55:44] or 20,000 of these transcript records.
[55:48] >> Okay.
[55:49] >> Right.
[55:50] >> And I begged Jeff Grazi, the uh station
[55:53] manager, please, I need one. This is a
[55:57] actually this was I think in 2017. I
[55:59] need one. I need one. Why do you need
[56:01] one? I'm making a record restoration
[56:03] machine. I need one. I chased him
[56:06] through the whole visit. He finally gave
[56:09] me this. So, so for those of you that
[56:11] don't know what happened back in the
[56:13] 60s, we during the nights had maybe a
[56:16] guy answering the phone at the radio
[56:18] station. We had a phone and a direct
[56:20] line over at the transmission site some
[56:23] 20 30 miles away, whatever. And they
[56:26] played these records. These records were
[56:29] commentaries that were recorded during
[56:31] the day.
[56:33] So, the commentators are all in bed at
[56:36] night.
[56:37] >> Yeah. Well, if you take a look, there's
[56:39] some nicks on the back. These were using
[56:43] uh aluminum foil. There we go. Here I'm
[56:45] trying. There we go. Aluminum foil.
[56:47] >> Oh, yes.
[56:48] >> And then coated with lacer or shellac.
[56:52] And you can only play them five times.
[56:54] So, by chance, I got this. Um, it says
[56:58] Les Rollins editorial unfair to WQED was
[57:02] recorded March 15, 1962. Not very old.
[57:06] It's a historical document by chance
[57:11] insured for $200,000 US.
[57:15] >> Wow.
[57:15] >> Because this talks about the Griffin Act
[57:18] where we were going to prohibit the
[57:22] funding of public radio in America. It's
[57:26] a valuable document
[57:28] >> picked out out of these 10 or 20,000 of
[57:31] them. And you'll see it was played on
[57:33] 315 and 316.
[57:36] Yep.
[57:36] >> So, uh, uh, it was played also obviously
[57:39] after it was recorded. So, there's three
[57:42] playbacks
[57:43] and they weren't made to last long. So,
[57:46] the fourth playback was me recording
[57:48] onto cassette tape, the before the
[57:51] Kermas, and then on cassette tape, the
[57:55] after KMAS. And the way we showed it at
[57:58] shows back in 2017 was left channel was
[58:01] before switch to right channel with a
[58:04] 5-second delay so your mind can see and
[58:07] hear and feel everything.
[58:10] So um so long story short we donated our
[58:13] first machine to KDKA
[58:16] and uh they digitized these. So uh so
[58:20] that's not an old record but here I am a
[58:24] happy golucky guy. bumping into people
[58:28] that fulfill my life with not with money
[58:33] but but but with this. Now there was a
[58:36] technical question that came up.
[58:38] >> Yeah, we got a we got a bunch of them.
[58:40] We have a lot in the queue. Charles,
[58:41] >> we've got a lot of questions to get to.
[58:44] >> One was I had the Keras and at the dead
[58:47] wax area, you know, I have material come
[58:49] out. It's impossible. Let me get my
[58:52] cover here.
[58:56] There we go.
[58:59] So,
[59:02] this is the Kerassis assembly. Okay. Uh
[59:05] I have a uh slot here, two slots, two 35
[59:08] uh uh RPM 12in slots, a 10-in slot, and
[59:12] a 7in slot. If we take a look at the
[59:15] side, okay, what happens is a record
[59:20] will drop in
[59:23] and then basically sit here and it is
[59:27] guided by the two neoprene rollers that
[59:30] are underneath at the proper height so
[59:32] the label does not get wet. And if you
[59:35] take a look here of we're talking about
[59:39] dead wax area, okay, which is right here
[59:42] near near the edge.
[59:43] >> Yep.
[59:44] >> Okay. On this dead wax area, you cannot
[59:47] a hit anything. Okay.
[59:50] >> Yeah.
[59:51] >> And if you do put in
[59:55] these guides, there's some felt guides
[59:58] that are here at the edge.
[59:59] >> Okay. If the fellow has the machine, you
[01:00:02] need to make sure that the notch is on
[01:00:05] the left side,
[01:00:08] not reversed.
[01:00:09] >> I found that out the hard well, not the
[01:00:11] hard way, but I found that out.
[01:00:12] >> There's no way there is no way that that
[01:00:15] you can do anything to the record.
[01:00:18] >> And we've done gazillion records for,
[01:00:22] you know, at all the trade shows we ask,
[01:00:24] bring a record in for restoration,
[01:00:26] especially bring in a record. Bring in a
[01:00:30] record. Okay. I meant the edges. Yeah.
[01:00:32] There is no way to do that on the edge
[01:00:34] unless you have your guide the other way
[01:00:37] around.
[01:00:38] >> Reverse. Yeah. Check the guide.
[01:00:39] >> Yeah.
[01:00:40] >> Yeah. Because now your notch is there.
[01:00:42] But we cannot. And and there's something
[01:00:44] else that we will find. Um uh we will
[01:00:48] find that a lot of the records um
[01:00:53] have strings on them. When records come
[01:00:57] out of the press, there are two ways
[01:00:59] records come out of the hot press.
[01:01:01] >> One is uh if you take a look at some of
[01:01:04] our materials, YouTubetubes and whatever
[01:01:07] powerpoints, uh the Cascadia Pressing
[01:01:09] Company, when the record uh the record
[01:01:12] pop before it pops out, it's in a
[01:01:14] stamper. Okay? We need to have the
[01:01:17] record cool down in a stamper for two or
[01:01:20] three minutes. I'll explain why in a
[01:01:22] moment. that at that factory a cutter
[01:01:24] goes around while the record is warm.
[01:01:26] >> Okay?
[01:01:27] >> And it does a nice job.
[01:01:28] >> You'll never have a splinter or anything
[01:01:32] appear on the edge. Other factories will
[01:01:35] take the record out, it popped out hot,
[01:01:37] they'll put it in another machine, put a
[01:01:40] clamp down, and then have a cutter go
[01:01:42] around the edge or the cutter is is
[01:01:45] stationary, and then the record now
[01:01:47] moves around. We will remove that
[01:01:50] material that has been there just by the
[01:01:54] process of you going around with the
[01:01:55] ionizing brush but it will appear in the
[01:01:59] machine and those uh uh if you if you
[01:02:02] take a look at that temperature is very
[01:02:04] critical. So
[01:02:07] I'm going to ask you has anyone thought
[01:02:09] why we have warp records
[01:02:12] brand new records that you just
[01:02:14] >> Yeah. because it's 400° outside and they
[01:02:16] sit outside for 30 seconds when they get
[01:02:18] delivered and they warp
[01:02:23] >> or I leave them in my car. I'm just I'm
[01:02:25] sorry to be sarcastic. I know that's not
[01:02:27] what you meant, Charles. But
[01:02:28] >> we've all got that story. We've all got
[01:02:30] that story.
[01:02:31] >> That's not That's not what you meant,
[01:02:32] Charles. I I know. I'm sorry. I was just
[01:02:34] poking a little fun.
[01:02:36] >> Well, the demand is so high now. If I
[01:02:39] have a machine that can pop out a record
[01:02:41] every three minutes. Okay. Um,
[01:02:44] you need at Cascadia, they want the
[01:02:47] record to pop out at 130 degrees. Okay.
[01:02:50] Uh, not higher at 130°.
[01:02:55] Uh, if I now want to make an extra
[01:02:58] record an hour, what do I do? I'll cut
[01:02:59] that time down. So, those records don't
[01:03:02] get to cool, so they come out warped.
[01:03:05] They end up in a stack. Okay. Here,
[01:03:07] here's another prop here. We'll look
[01:03:09] into the factory here in Cascadia.
[01:03:12] There we go. There. There we go. So,
[01:03:16] these records uh here. There we go. You
[01:03:20] see all these records on these white
[01:03:21] papers? Okay. Every 3 minutes a record
[01:03:24] pops out. If a record popped out, say in
[01:03:27] two minutes, I'm just using an arbitrary
[01:03:29] number. The record is warped. So, what
[01:03:31] do the factories do? They put a weight
[01:03:33] on it. The weight now flattens the
[01:03:35] record out as the record cools.
[01:03:39] Plastic has memory position. Yeah, it
[01:03:43] has memory. Speak to any plastic person.
[01:03:47] That's why playing records once a day
[01:03:49] per side is very important and not more.
[01:03:52] I'll talk about that in a second. But
[01:03:55] now the record leaves the distributor,
[01:03:57] it goes to the dealer, the dealer goes
[01:03:59] to you, you to to the record reseller,
[01:04:01] they sell to you, the records warped
[01:04:03] again. Why? It has that memory position.
[01:04:07] So very important where um u you know uh
[01:04:13] how should I say it um
[01:04:16] very important to think of what we're
[01:04:19] doing and if we happen to have used
[01:04:21] aggressive cleaning solutions
[01:04:24] and again I this is to everyone doesn't
[01:04:27] matter what manufacturer whether it's a
[01:04:29] ultrasonic whether it's a spin clean
[01:04:32] whether it's do not put anything on your
[01:04:35] record to clean
[01:04:38] until you read the ingredients
[01:04:40] >> and then compare the ingredients with
[01:04:42] the PVC and plasticizer chemical
[01:04:45] compatibility chart.
[01:04:46] >> Yeah.
[01:04:46] >> If there are no ingredients, ask the
[01:04:48] manufacturer for the material safety
[01:04:50] data sheet.
[01:04:52] >> Liquids, FedEx, UPS, they know my
[01:04:55] liquids on file. So, as a retired first
[01:04:58] responder up here, if there's a tragedy,
[01:05:02] trucks are over over, you know,
[01:05:04] overturned, there's a fire, we know how
[01:05:07] to handle that chemical spill or that
[01:05:09] fire.
[01:05:10] >> The same thing. Some of those are
[01:05:12] detrimental to P plastic and PVC.
[01:05:16] >> And some are detrimental, as I've proven
[01:05:18] and helped them a couple of
[01:05:19] manufacturers, where they couldn't
[01:05:21] understand why their pumps and their
[01:05:22] O-rings were failing. their liquid in
[01:05:25] fact was not neoprene and rubber
[01:05:27] friendly. So I've helped people in this
[01:05:29] industry. It's not all about keras. It's
[01:05:32] about being honest and if you know
[01:05:34] something you share it.
[01:05:36] >> Yeah.
[01:05:36] >> So if you used an aggressive cleaning
[01:05:39] solution which like we said it can't get
[01:05:41] in the groove. So all you're doing is
[01:05:43] swishing stuff around.
[01:05:45] >> The needle temperature is very very
[01:05:47] high. Okay. At the contact point. So the
[01:05:51] groove will change a bit. You want the
[01:05:53] groove to come back to its rest
[01:05:54] position. And some of these chemicals
[01:05:57] are aggressive. So that's why I play one
[01:06:00] record per day per side. Oh, maybe I'll
[01:06:02] do two or three that you know because it
[01:06:04] takes 20 minutes or whatever to get
[01:06:06] through that a lot of people just play
[01:06:08] one track. And that's why when you buy a
[01:06:10] used record and track three is gray
[01:06:13] because hey, it's summers man. Push,
[01:06:16] push in the push, push.
[01:06:19] >> Then we play it over and over and over
[01:06:21] again.
[01:06:22] >> And guess what I did? Radio Shack had a
[01:06:24] fluid.
[01:06:26] >> Lafayette Electronics had a fluid. Uh
[01:06:28] Thors had a spray. I used everything
[01:06:31] trying to get rid of the pop. And guess
[01:06:33] what? The pop got back because I coated
[01:06:36] the record with whatever I was using,
[01:06:39] whether it be mechanical or machine or
[01:06:41] whatever. But the needle did the
[01:06:43] cleaning again because it was fighting
[01:06:45] through those two layers and then
[01:06:47] hitting the the uh the the the pressing
[01:06:50] oil, the the the cooled oil.
[01:06:53] >> So,
[01:06:55] >> let's put some questions up, Charles,
[01:06:56] and and and possibly you you can address
[01:06:59] them and uh let's we'll move along
[01:07:01] because we we want to try and get to all
[01:07:03] these questions. So, if we can um we
[01:07:05] love hearing your insight. We absolutely
[01:07:07] do. I'm sure everyone would would say
[01:07:09] that, but but getting through some of
[01:07:11] these. So our audience who we want to
[01:07:13] put first in this whole equation can get
[01:07:15] these questions to you and and and have
[01:07:18] them addressed by you.
[01:07:19] >> Yep. Okay. I see one right here talking
[01:07:23] about um uh the styluses and it's
[01:07:26] properly aligned. Well, it's a diamond.
[01:07:29] Uh yeah, you're uh you're going to be
[01:07:31] taking now the uh the Koozma 60, right,
[01:07:34] Shane? From looking at your chart,
[01:07:36] >> keep my fingers crossed. I've just taken
[01:07:39] delivery of a Koozma 50 and I saw that.
[01:07:42] I saw that.
[01:07:42] >> Pretty damn impressed with that, let me
[01:07:44] tell you.
[01:07:45] >> Okay, here. Let me let me get to my prop
[01:07:47] here again. Okay, so we're not riding on
[01:07:51] the bottom. Okay, we're not riding on
[01:07:53] the bottom. The six microns right on the
[01:07:56] bottom has nothing inside. It's just a
[01:07:58] guide. Okay,
[01:07:59] >> you're not picking up music down there.
[01:08:02] >> Doesn't matter whether whether we
[01:08:05] elliptical, conicle, stylus, we are not
[01:08:07] doing anything. whether it's diamond,
[01:08:09] sapphire, ruby plastic. Yes, because the
[01:08:11] coefficient of friction and the size is
[01:08:14] basically the size of the groove, okay?
[01:08:17] Or or you know uh you know in the micron
[01:08:20] range, not in the submicron range. So
[01:08:22] you're not going to go and do anything
[01:08:23] to that. And again, you know, send me an
[01:08:26] email and there are a lot of people that
[01:08:27] have done this and and the way that I
[01:08:29] measure things is I use a spectrum
[01:08:32] analyzer. Okay. Uh there we go. More
[01:08:36] props. Uh Louie has one. You'll see a
[01:08:39] jumping on chains channel and whatever.
[01:08:41] Um on the orifon test printout, it shows
[01:08:45] me the uh frequency response ranges and
[01:08:48] the db gains and whatever. So I can do a
[01:08:51] test record uh with Ortafon
[01:08:55] right here.
[01:08:56] Use the Ortafon
[01:08:59] uh computer
[01:09:02] right here.
[01:09:04] >> My goodness. How can you move around in
[01:09:06] that room?
[01:09:08] >> Every every dealer in the 70s had this
[01:09:11] for Mortifon.
[01:09:12] >> It's a TC300.
[01:09:14] >> You had a test record. You had a jig
[01:09:16] that went on to your turntable. You were
[01:09:19] able to get a print out after playing
[01:09:21] the record. Uh decibel output of the
[01:09:23] cartridge, frequency range per band out
[01:09:26] of the cartridge, the impedance, the
[01:09:28] capacitance, the resistance of the
[01:09:30] cable, all on a printout. M
[01:09:32] >> so in one of the I have to find the
[01:09:35] video that I ran a record uh using a BSR
[01:09:40] auto return with a shore M44 cartridge
[01:09:44] on that same test record after eight
[01:09:47] months just back and forth back and
[01:09:49] forth 20 minutes non-stop no difference
[01:09:52] no difference
[01:09:53] >> and how again I didn't even look at you
[01:09:57] know my little test meter with jumping
[01:09:59] things I just asked for the print
[01:10:02] from the ordon tester.
[01:10:04] >> Okay.
[01:10:05] >> And you
[01:10:06] >> you're going to need you're going to
[01:10:07] need to have a lie down, mate, after
[01:10:09] this uh this interview.
[01:10:10] >> You're getting plenty of exercise.
[01:10:12] >> Yeah.
[01:10:12] >> Yeah. And you can do the same thing if
[01:10:14] you have an oscilloscope with the shore
[01:10:15] tester. uh when Shore closed when they
[01:10:18] sold their last uh uh Mark Five uh uh
[01:10:22] cartridges uh V15 Mark 5s 10,000 of them
[01:10:26] to Library of Congress uh Gary engineer
[01:10:29] gave me this brand new in exchange for a
[01:10:31] machine and the test records and we can
[01:10:34] do the same thing
[01:10:35] >> uh using the oscilloscope. Yeah. So so
[01:10:38] so you can see by the way in this study
[01:10:40] of how I got in this
[01:10:41] >> it's test equipment.
[01:10:43] >> Yeah. books very much. There's a lot of
[01:10:45] a lot of uh uh uh you know verifying
[01:10:49] your results through testing and
[01:10:51] analysis. Um that's clearly obvious. I'm
[01:10:54] seeing more of that than I've ever seen.
[01:10:55] Charles,
[01:10:56] >> yeah, a good good question I just saw
[01:10:58] here popped up. Do I do I want to do a
[01:11:01] pre-clean? Okay.
[01:11:02] >> Yeah. Uh remember um if I have a record
[01:11:06] that I picked up that has um fungus on
[01:11:10] it, powder on it.
[01:11:12] >> Yeah. Just not Yeah. Just um not oils,
[01:11:17] not fingerprint oils. What I do is I
[01:11:20] I'll use the money cloth with distilled
[01:11:22] water and just a quick quick wipe and
[01:11:25] then I process my my record
[01:11:28] >> in in in my machine.
[01:11:30] >> Beautiful.
[01:11:30] >> That that that's the way that I do it.
[01:11:32] And and really, you know, folks, um I
[01:11:36] love Spin Clean. You're going to say
[01:11:39] Charles is, you know, you know, eating
[01:11:42] some of this Vegemite here. And he's
[01:11:43] gone.
[01:11:44] >> Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey.
[01:11:46] >> Don't you be knocking my Vegemite, mate.
[01:11:48] Well, at least mine's being mine's been
[01:11:50] used. H
[01:11:53] >> mine's fresh. There's a challenge.
[01:11:54] >> Elixir of It's the elixir of life for an
[01:11:57] Australian.
[01:11:58] >> There we go. So uh so just to share
[01:12:01] something what are we trying to do?
[01:12:03] We're trying to keep our stylist clean.
[01:12:05] Okay. And we had a panel with Michael
[01:12:07] Fmer. I represented the ultrasonic
[01:12:09] industry and then we had vacuum guy and
[01:12:12] then we had the VP of spin clean. And I
[01:12:15] think he fell out of his chair when at
[01:12:16] the end I said, "Guys, if you don't have
[01:12:19] 12,300 US or $1,500 US for a Keris
[01:12:23] restoration machine, uh or you don't
[01:12:27] have the time, someone asked how do we
[01:12:29] restore?" So, I will answer that. But
[01:12:31] this is more answering questions of what
[01:12:33] can we do in the interim. Okay. Use
[01:12:36] distilled water, put it in the spin
[01:12:38] clean. I like the spin clean because
[01:12:40] I'll take
[01:12:41] not the $200,000 record. a little humor.
[01:12:44] I'll I'll I'll turn it around. Okay. The
[01:12:47] water droplets are larger than the
[01:12:48] groove, so I can't get in the groove.
[01:12:50] So, what I do is I will take a 10 micron
[01:12:53] keris brush that I will then brush this
[01:12:57] around
[01:12:58] uh and basically I'm moving, you know,
[01:13:01] just the distilled water, moving it
[01:13:04] around. I'll take the bunny cloth, I'll
[01:13:06] remove it.
[01:13:08] Then I'll take a 10 micron fiber brush.
[01:13:12] I resurrected from Dr. Watts to discreer
[01:13:15] and polish the groove.
[01:13:19] That is as best as you're going to get.
[01:13:22] We still have not removed the pressing
[01:13:24] oil or the release agent. We have not
[01:13:27] removed the dust particles that got
[01:13:29] fused into the record. And we'll talk
[01:13:30] about why we hear records that have pops
[01:13:33] that are new. And we have not removed
[01:13:36] necessarily the outgassing of the
[01:13:37] plasticizer, but we have removed some of
[01:13:40] the prior cleaning agents because you've
[01:13:42] done a mechanical. Some of the spin
[01:13:45] cleans in the old days used to have a
[01:13:47] little tong with foam. I love it. Don't
[01:13:51] use the chemical.
[01:13:53] Why I say that? Still to this day, no
[01:13:56] one has told Mr. Fmer or the audience in
[01:13:58] that zoom that we did of what's inside.
[01:14:02] We need to be PVC plasticizer friendly.
[01:14:06] But I love it. And and always then
[01:14:10] before you play a record, use a 10
[01:14:12] micron brush
[01:14:15] and not carbon fiber. People are selling
[01:14:18] these brushes. This this this you see
[01:14:20] the carbon fibers there. That's to
[01:14:22] remove static. All you're doing is
[01:14:24] swishing dust around. You're not doing
[01:14:26] anything. You need to have a brush that
[01:14:29] you will see the brush become white
[01:14:32] because it will go in the groove. This
[01:14:34] groove, this is a 10 micron brush that
[01:14:37] fits into that 6 micron by 30, 40, 45
[01:14:41] micron u groove.
[01:14:44] And you'll have to turn the record by
[01:14:47] hand using your finger on the label
[01:14:50] because this will shut down your
[01:14:51] turntable because it's making contact
[01:14:54] with all the films.
[01:14:55] >> Yeah. If the films were removed by our
[01:14:58] process, you won't have the problem. But
[01:15:00] records that are in your collection
[01:15:01] right now, all the other brushes, they
[01:15:03] do nothing. And then just use the lint
[01:15:06] roller that Louis was using just before
[01:15:08] to make sure we don't see his dandruff
[01:15:10] to clean this.
[01:15:12] >> And then use a wet needle
[01:15:14] >> audience.
[01:15:15] >> Then use a wet needle cleaner every four
[01:15:18] or five plays from the back of the
[01:15:20] needle to the front. Back of the needle
[01:15:22] to the front twice. That's it. not the
[01:15:25] canal lever.
[01:15:27] That's all you need. And then when you
[01:15:30] want to restore records, then it's our
[01:15:33] process.
[01:15:34] >> Brilliant. Well, there's another
[01:15:35] question there.
[01:15:37] We'll let we'll let you we'll let you
[01:15:39] deal with them, Charles, and and and
[01:15:40] we'll sit back and throw our two cents
[01:15:42] in here and there when we see fit.
[01:15:45] >> Okay. Number one is how many times can
[01:15:47] you clean a record with the Kermis
[01:15:48] Restorer? Once the restoration process
[01:15:51] is complete, you never have to do this
[01:15:54] in and out in and out of the machine
[01:15:56] ever again.
[01:15:57] >> Yes.
[01:15:57] >> Because we removed the three layers.
[01:16:00] Whatever was on the coating that air or
[01:16:03] vacuum dried or air dried or sponge
[01:16:06] dried on the record, we've removed the
[01:16:09] plasticizer. Most of the scratches are
[01:16:11] on the outgassing of the plasticizer and
[01:16:13] the release agent or pressing oil are
[01:16:15] gone. So, a two-minute cycle because
[01:16:18] like you've been seeing me here. Hey,
[01:16:21] Charles, I'm touching the record with my
[01:16:23] fingers. Boy, he's an idiot. I'll never
[01:16:27] buy a Keras. He doesn't know how to
[01:16:29] handle a record. He's on Shane's video
[01:16:31] going, "Look at all the schmutz." I know
[01:16:34] what the end result is. Is going to be
[01:16:35] removed. Okay. But no, in in in all
[01:16:39] honesty, um the way we do it is I'll put
[01:16:42] it into the machine for about four
[01:16:45] minutes. In our manual, I say five
[01:16:48] because I don't know the provenence of
[01:16:49] the record. We have some records that
[01:16:51] are totally coded with all sorts of
[01:16:53] stuff.
[01:16:54] >> Yeah.
[01:16:54] >> I've not done anything though with the
[01:16:56] ultrasonic. It doesn't matter whether
[01:16:57] it's a Kermis ultrasonic, whether it's
[01:16:59] XYZ ultrasonic. Uh the and of course
[01:17:04] we're assuming that those are real
[01:17:05] ultrasonics that have cavitation. We
[01:17:08] don't do anything. Why? The record is
[01:17:10] negative and the water with or without a
[01:17:12] soap. N don't come and see me.
[01:17:15] >> Yeah.
[01:17:15] >> So what we do? Take the record out. We
[01:17:18] wobble. Uh here. Let's see. I got to get
[01:17:20] back to uh my full screen here.
[01:17:24] Uh uh oh. Hello. Ah. Wonderful. Charles.
[01:17:30] Uh, how do we get to full screen?
[01:17:32] Anyways, doesn't matter. You're gonna
[01:17:34] have to read the read here. I'm gonna go
[01:17:36] down this way here. Here. Uh,
[01:17:41] oh. Well, anyways, so we'll figure it
[01:17:44] out in a bit. I just
[01:17:46] >> television
[01:17:49] screen. There we go. Got it. So, so what
[01:17:52] we do is we apply the spray 12:00, 4:00,
[01:17:55] 8:00 to the record. We'll use this brush
[01:17:58] and we'll crunch it. Not like this. We
[01:18:00] need to crunch it and use some force.
[01:18:03] Okay, we either have the record on a pad
[01:18:06] that's on a workt with the bunny cloth
[01:18:08] or we have a little support. Okay, I
[01:18:11] apply it both sides. I'll put the record
[01:18:13] into the machine for four minutes. Don't
[01:18:16] have to do five anymore. It's four
[01:18:17] minutes. As the record spins, the charge
[01:18:21] is opposite to that of water. Now, we're
[01:18:23] attracting the bubbles. They're rising.
[01:18:25] They're cavitating. They're being drawn.
[01:18:27] And we pull materials out. Okay, take
[01:18:30] the record out, wobble it, put it on the
[01:18:33] work area. Then before I do anything, I
[01:18:36] I say, "Okay, fine. If I have a lot of
[01:18:38] sheeting, h there's a severe coating on
[01:18:41] there." If I have thousands of droplets
[01:18:44] of water on there, there is a coating on
[01:18:46] there. Those are not from the record.
[01:18:49] They are from aftermarket someone
[01:18:51] polishing up the record for sale. Uh
[01:18:54] we've seen people use um protective
[01:18:57] coatings. We've seen people use uh to
[01:19:00] sell records, and we'll talk about used
[01:19:02] records in a bit. Lighter fluid to dress
[01:19:04] the record up for sale. No problem.
[01:19:07] We'll take the water off, put the spray
[01:19:10] on again,
[01:19:12] um put it in the machine,
[01:19:15] take the record out, wobble the water,
[01:19:17] and if I now see a lot of water on
[01:19:20] there, all I remove the excess water
[01:19:23] with the bunny cloth, I apply the spray
[01:19:26] 12, 8, and four. And there's a colorant
[01:19:29] in this spray.
[01:19:32] Like I said, I can put a record in my
[01:19:34] machine for 10 years. I won't do
[01:19:35] anything. I'll do some surface cleaning,
[01:19:37] but I can't get into what I want.
[01:19:40] Picking up the detail from the stamper.
[01:19:42] Okay. So, there's a colorant in here and
[01:19:45] it shows me what came out. So, to go
[01:19:49] further and answer your question, how
[01:19:51] long do I have to go in and out and in
[01:19:53] and out of the machine? Some
[01:19:56] manufacturers say, "Oh, do it five
[01:19:57] minutes. If you don't like it, do it
[01:19:59] another five minutes. If you don't like
[01:20:00] it again, do it another five minutes."
[01:20:03] When do you stop? You do not know. A
[01:20:05] timer doesn't tell you that it's presto.
[01:20:07] It's ready. The colorant in here will
[01:20:10] show you what came out in the previous
[01:20:13] cycle. So, we'll see an increase in the
[01:20:16] colorant, which says, "Hey, we picked
[01:20:18] materials out. What did we pick out
[01:20:20] first?" The first layer is what? another
[01:20:23] process left. The second and third
[01:20:26] layers are the outgassing of the
[01:20:28] plasticizer. And you'll see, wow, the
[01:20:31] scratches are gone from the record. We
[01:20:33] cannot repair plastic that we will
[01:20:36] remove the scuff marks in that film
[01:20:39] caused by the plastic evaporating,
[01:20:42] outgassing,
[01:20:44] >> and then the last cycle will be the
[01:20:46] pressing oil.
[01:20:47] >> And how do you know that? And that's
[01:20:48] that that film that we you talked about
[01:20:51] earlier, which to give people an idea to
[01:20:53] it's that film you see on the inside of
[01:20:55] your windows of your car. That's that's
[01:20:57] the film that's got the the damage on it
[01:20:59] because it essentially it's almost like
[01:21:01] a layer of protection that we now want
[01:21:03] to remove.
[01:21:06] >> Shane,
[01:21:08] you you should do this. You don't need
[01:21:09] Kermit. You hit the nail on the head.
[01:21:12] >> We need you, Charles. That's for sure.
[01:21:15] >> Except for the aggressive chemicals. All
[01:21:17] of these two coatings that I talked
[01:21:18] about have protected our plastic.
[01:21:21] >> Yeah,
[01:21:21] >> they have. Okay, we've all done that
[01:21:24] skid mark and we hear the click every
[01:21:27] revolution. Okay,
[01:21:30] >> if we removed all these three layers,
[01:21:33] the needle now is lower.
[01:21:35] >> I have had a skid on those films. So,
[01:21:39] while visible on the plastic, it's being
[01:21:42] proven in our work. Seven times out of
[01:21:44] 10 I I won't hear that tone arm skid
[01:21:48] >> because
[01:21:50] >> and that's where the restoration comes
[01:21:51] in and not cleaning.
[01:21:53] >> Correct.
[01:21:54] >> Because
[01:21:56] >> we've stripped that out.
[01:21:58] >> Let's get into some more questions
[01:21:59] because um we this is for our audience
[01:22:02] and so we need to get through these for
[01:22:04] Charles.
[01:22:05] >> H I love this question.
[01:22:08] Look, whether you have a a a Project
[01:22:12] $500 or $900 Audio Technica turntable,
[01:22:15] the new kids have them. Uh they have an
[01:22:18] Orderfon Red, they got USB out, they
[01:22:20] have Bluetooth, whatever. Or you have a
[01:22:23] uh a big huge washing machine that Fmer
[01:22:25] has, you know, the Air Force. Okay.
[01:22:29] Um what are we trying to do? Okay. If
[01:22:32] you really want to hear
[01:22:36] and be in the studio
[01:22:39] with the artist
[01:22:42] listening to everything, you want to
[01:22:44] play this.
[01:22:46] >> Okay.
[01:22:46] >> Yeah.
[01:22:47] >> Yeah.
[01:22:47] >> You You don't want to play through all
[01:22:50] of those layers that I mentioned, which
[01:22:53] by the way create issues because now you
[01:22:56] have to clean your needle every time you
[01:22:58] play a record.
[01:23:01] So um to to answer your your your
[01:23:04] question, I can use my machine and put
[01:23:07] it in for two minutes. I have not
[01:23:10] removed anything except fingerprint
[01:23:13] oils. The record looks good, but what
[01:23:16] are we trying to hear? If you take a
[01:23:18] look at some of the videos that are uh
[01:23:21] on many of the YouTube channels of the
[01:23:23] Kermitas, uh there's a great one by a
[01:23:26] record custodian that was sent to me
[01:23:29] unsolicited while we were at the LA show
[01:23:33] uh a couple of weeks back where he did a
[01:23:37] cleaning before cleaning spectrum
[01:23:40] analyzer, not with a $350 deal like
[01:23:43] this. Okay. He then used a very famous,
[01:23:46] very expensive, five, six times more the
[01:23:49] price of a Kermis machine, ultrasonic
[01:23:51] machine, did the after.
[01:23:55] And
[01:23:56] when I met him by accident when I was in
[01:24:00] Mexico City, not knowing what he's going
[01:24:01] to be doing, he said, "You're full of
[01:24:03] because you don't know what you're
[01:24:04] doing and I have the best machine. Your
[01:24:06] machine is inexpensive." And you'll see
[01:24:08] the video where he says, "In a totally
[01:24:10] scratched record that's noisy, it
[01:24:13] works." So to get back to uh your
[01:24:16] question, it's uh laborious. Yeah. But
[01:24:19] you know what? New records 18 to 22
[01:24:22] records uh 18 to 22 minutes, you know,
[01:24:25] when they're finished by no wipe. The
[01:24:27] records are dry and uh you do two LPs at
[01:24:31] a time. If you buy the uh 3LP that's
[01:24:34] available in Europe, the available in
[01:24:36] Australia, New Zealand, anything outside
[01:24:38] of United States, uh where that's
[01:24:41] available at Upscale Audio for Kevin
[01:24:43] Deal, um you'll do three LPs at a time.
[01:24:46] So maximum is about 25 minutes, three
[01:24:48] LPS all simultaneously at the worst
[01:24:51] case. Now, you don't need a filter.
[01:24:55] Let's go back to the tribe electric
[01:24:57] table of charges. The tribe electric
[01:24:59] table of charges states that a record is
[01:25:02] negative and water is negative. That's
[01:25:04] why after restoration
[01:25:06] I wobble the record. The water comes
[01:25:08] off. I use an optitian's cloth to remove
[01:25:12] the few droplets of water. I then polish
[01:25:15] the groove with a 10 micron
[01:25:18] paristatic felt and we're done.
[01:25:21] And all of these filters uh again this
[01:25:25] is science.
[01:25:27] I showed Mr. Fmer. So here guys, this is
[01:25:31] part of the microscope. I have a
[01:25:33] $278,000
[01:25:34] microscope
[01:25:36] that I had to buy for Mr. Fmer in 197
[01:25:40] in 2017. There it is right there with
[01:25:43] me. Nicer younger man. There are those
[01:25:45] hollow notes test records that I
[01:25:47] mentioned to prove there was a pressing
[01:25:49] oil. He said there's No pam
[01:25:52] beans spread on on a stamper. It comes
[01:25:55] out of the plastic. As we talked about,
[01:25:57] this lens is $75,000.
[01:25:59] >> It has fiber optic light that goes and
[01:26:02] it's 2500x
[01:26:04] and I can measure the grooves. So, I
[01:26:07] proved the pressing oil issue.
[01:26:10] It's not a $300 USB that everyone says,
[01:26:13] I can see clearly now. Yeah, the dirt,
[01:26:17] dust, dandruff is gone, but you haven't
[01:26:20] seen what's inside the groove. You
[01:26:23] haven't seen this.
[01:26:27] This is what we see here. Why are
[01:26:29] records Let's talk about records that
[01:26:30] come out of the press. You saw they pop
[01:26:33] out on this paper. They're stacked.
[01:26:35] Every 3 minutes a record pops out. So,
[01:26:37] here we have a piece of dust that got
[01:26:40] fused into the record because the oil
[01:26:43] was cooling. Well, every time you hit
[01:26:46] that with your needle, and most of the
[01:26:48] time it's on the edge of the record,
[01:26:49] you'll hear a pop at that spot. So we
[01:26:53] remove the release agent, the pressing
[01:26:55] oil. Here we go. We remove 0.9 microns.
[01:26:59] So this is the key VHX7000.
[01:27:02] We've gone to 31 microns from D 32
[01:27:07] microns. And we remove the pop. But
[01:27:10] look, we now have detail. That's where
[01:27:12] we have the timber, the tone, the
[01:27:14] harmonics, the music, the emotion of the
[01:27:18] artist. We are now for the first time
[01:27:20] seeing the stamper. That's why we get
[01:27:22] the game.
[01:27:23] >> And that's measured at the same spot on
[01:27:24] the record, Charles.
[01:27:26] >> Uh it's done on Yes, it's done uh well
[01:27:29] number one for the pop. Yes, it's done
[01:27:30] on the same spot and the visual is also
[01:27:33] on the same spot. Yes.
[01:27:34] >> Wow. It's so different between the A and
[01:27:36] B photos. Yeah.
[01:27:38] >> What we now do is we have some uh some
[01:27:42] pictures we sent over to Mr. fmer for
[01:27:44] this very famous protectant that was
[01:27:46] sold where after 100 plays you need to
[01:27:49] reapply it and we proved it's a coating
[01:27:52] and to do it to get the same spot
[01:27:54] because I didn't have dust I actually
[01:27:56] nick the record with a knife and put in
[01:27:59] a little you know white paint so I can
[01:28:02] locate the spot in the pictures that
[01:28:04] were on Mr. Fmer's site. Uh the the I
[01:28:08] didn't get the exact capture. This is
[01:28:10] back in 2017. Now I'm a little smarter.
[01:28:12] You have to sometimes destroy a record
[01:28:14] to get the reference point.
[01:28:16] But yeah, uh so u uh so to to answer
[01:28:21] your question, no filter needed. And
[01:28:23] most of these filters with that
[01:28:25] microscope that was I was getting to um
[01:28:28] the filters um in one of Fmer's
[01:28:31] machines. He says uh well the well here
[01:28:35] even better
[01:28:36] >> the question and I see this other great
[01:28:38] great question here. Uh so getting back
[01:28:40] to Mr. Fmer when we met in the Munich
[01:28:44] show two weeks after Expona in 2017.
[01:28:47] There he is. Oh there's Charles with the
[01:28:49] lab coat. Oh wow. Oh he's he's real.
[01:28:53] He's in Munich. He must be an audio file
[01:28:56] not a nerd. So he's there and he says,
[01:28:59] "How come the Germans are doing three
[01:29:01] five minute cycles
[01:29:03] and his records were nine five minute
[01:29:05] cycles? What's going on?" Mr. Fmer, due
[01:29:10] respect, I don't know. He's there with
[01:29:12] the camera. He goes, buys a couple of
[01:29:14] German records, three five minute
[01:29:15] cycles. We went over to his home
[01:29:21] uh and he immediately shows me this
[01:29:23] machine. And it happens to be one of the
[01:29:25] German machines I opened up when I
[01:29:27] started this in 2014. Okay. I said, "Mr.
[01:29:31] Fmer, number one, it's not an
[01:29:33] ultrasonic." Oh, blah blah blah blah
[01:29:35] blah. I said, "Let's get some aluminum
[01:29:36] foil."
[01:29:38] Okay. Then I say, "How often do you
[01:29:42] change the water?" Oh, the manufacturer
[01:29:44] says every six months, get rid of the
[01:29:46] water and add distilled water because
[01:29:49] they had these little floating beads
[01:29:51] that would go up and down. So add
[01:29:53] distilled water. So every six months I
[01:29:56] said, "Mr. Fmer, you are air drying onto
[01:30:00] your record whatever came off in all the
[01:30:05] previous records that are sitting in
[01:30:06] your tank." Oh, there's a filter in
[01:30:10] here, Mr. Fmer. It's a $1.99 Ace
[01:30:13] Hardware. The pore size is 200 to 300
[01:30:17] microns.
[01:30:19] >> Dirt, dust, oil. There's no frigin way
[01:30:23] you're going to be filtering anything
[01:30:26] out.
[01:30:27] >> Okay? So, that's why when people kind of
[01:30:31] are upset at me because I go and buy a
[01:30:34] bottle of fluorescent one micron
[01:30:38] dust,
[01:30:40] put them into an ultrasonic machine, put
[01:30:43] them into whatever machine,
[01:30:46] then let's see what comes out. What gets
[01:30:50] air dried on the record? Wow, I got
[01:30:53] fluorescent speckles on there.
[01:30:55] >> The filter didn't didn't do anything. It
[01:30:58] did a little
[01:30:59] >> Take a fluorescent light. Look in the
[01:31:01] basin. Hey man, it's sparkles
[01:31:04] sprinklers. You think you're at that at
[01:31:06] that at Dairy Queen. What's going on
[01:31:08] here? The filters don't do anything. To
[01:31:12] get a one micron filter is three to
[01:31:13] $5,000. Ceramic with osmosis and
[01:31:16] whatever. ain't gonna happen in our
[01:31:18] industry. And again, you don't need a
[01:31:20] filter because the the record repels
[01:31:24] water. So, to the question that kind of
[01:31:26] came uh in between here, a the record
[01:31:31] comes out virtually dry and uh what was
[01:31:34] that uh thing that just was up there? Uh
[01:31:37] uh
[01:31:37] >> it's about uh being able to reuse the
[01:31:39] water because you have to cycle it out
[01:31:41] after so many records.
[01:31:43] >> Ah, okay. So, this sounds like Okay,
[01:31:45] this is a Keris question. Okay. Okay,
[01:31:46] the Ker a real ultrasonic creates heat.
[01:31:50] Okay, so you need to have a alarm that
[01:31:54] tells you that you're at around 95 98
[01:31:58] degrees. Um, so you have to stop the
[01:32:02] machine to protect a real ultrasonic,
[01:32:04] the transducers, but also you need to
[01:32:07] cool the water down. Okay. So what we do
[01:32:11] is we say take the water out. I do 60
[01:32:16] records at the uh Chicago at the
[01:32:18] California SoCal show a couple of weeks
[01:32:20] ago. I take the water out. I put it back
[01:32:23] in the jugs. I put fresh water back in.
[01:32:26] I do the degass. So also ultrasonics
[01:32:28] need degassing because we introduce air
[01:32:31] which increases the coefficient of
[01:32:33] friction with kinetic energy which
[01:32:35] creates a faster rise of temperature.
[01:32:38] So, with the Keris, as soon as you see
[01:32:40] the red light light up, the small one,
[01:32:42] change do finish your cycles. Uh, and
[01:32:46] then change the water. Definitely when
[01:32:48] it's flashing, you want to stop because
[01:32:50] you're at about 102 degrees. Get rid of
[01:32:52] the water. You don't have to wait for
[01:32:54] the water to cool down, put new water
[01:32:57] in, uh, and then do the degass, and then
[01:33:00] start all over again. So,
[01:33:02] >> you're doing it for temperature.
[01:33:03] >> You're doing it for
[01:33:04] >> temperature,
[01:33:05] >> correct? Uh and and that's it. But you
[01:33:08] do not want if I've only did four
[01:33:10] records today,
[01:33:12] don't keep the water more than two days
[01:33:15] and not in the tank. You need to put it
[01:33:17] back into the gallon jugs.
[01:33:19] >> Is that because of bacteria? What's
[01:33:21] what's the purpose, Charles?
[01:33:23] >> Yeah. Well, what happens if you keep the
[01:33:24] water in the tank? We have all sorts of
[01:33:26] garbage coming off records. We have
[01:33:28] ethylene oxide that comes off from
[01:33:31] turgital.
[01:33:33] That's nasty for plastics and rubbers,
[01:33:35] isn't it? Not only for your record, but
[01:33:37] for your equipment. We also have ether
[01:33:40] that gets into the tank because a lot of
[01:33:42] these cleaning solutions, air or vacuum
[01:33:45] dried onto the record that makes the
[01:33:47] record shiny. We've stripped all that.
[01:33:50] Okay? Now, the shininess is from the
[01:33:52] pure PVC, not an artificial coating. And
[01:33:55] what happens is we do not want that to
[01:33:58] get in and glue the gears. That's why in
[01:34:02] our in our in our process, get rid of
[01:34:05] the water, put it in a jug for next day
[01:34:07] or so, put the water back in, add a
[01:34:10] capful of 70% IPA. It's not dangerous in
[01:34:13] in in in 1.78 gallons or 7.1 lers of of
[01:34:18] distilled water. It's to kill the fungus
[01:34:20] that comes off records. So, when you are
[01:34:23] handling records with anything
[01:34:25] >> in a ventilated area, okay,
[01:34:27] >> let's talk about that again, Charles,
[01:34:28] because you used three letters there.
[01:34:30] Let's look let's make sure our audience
[01:34:32] understand what we're adding to the
[01:34:33] water. Um so
[01:34:35] >> so in our process we use distilled
[01:34:37] water. Uh there's a video that uh is on
[01:34:40] our website by a chemical engineer that
[01:34:42] talks about distilled water being the
[01:34:44] purest water. We have not removed any of
[01:34:47] the ions through deionization. So my
[01:34:49] ionizing agent works. Uh and the whole
[01:34:53] premise is being explained by a chemical
[01:34:56] engineer for Mr. Fmer. Uh it's on his
[01:34:58] channel and Mr. FMER is uh going to send
[01:35:01] it to me so I can share it with everyone
[01:35:03] on our channel. Uh but uh the we put in
[01:35:07] 1.4 ounces of 70% IPA to kill live or
[01:35:11] dormant fungus so we don't get
[01:35:13] >> IPA explain.
[01:35:15] >> Yeah. Uh isopropyl alcohol. Uh some
[01:35:18] people call it rubbing alcohol. Uh but
[01:35:21] it's not the one with the colorant in
[01:35:23] there. Green or whatever. That is a
[01:35:26] little menthol to soothe your your your
[01:35:29] body while someone is giving you a
[01:35:31] professional massage.
[01:35:33] >> Okay.
[01:35:34] >> Professional not to irritate. And that's
[01:35:37] why 70% alcohol also uh was used during
[01:35:41] COVID as disinfectants
[01:35:44] whether it had you know uh menthol or
[01:35:47] whatever in there. It was because it uh
[01:35:50] evaporates slower than 99 or 91%.
[01:35:55] Okay, we got more questions here. Okay.
[01:35:57] Uh uh enzyme cleaners and I think there
[01:36:01] was another question before that. Uh uh
[01:36:04] chaps we talked about.
[01:36:05] >> Yeah, it popped up about you know when
[01:36:07] they run the records through the
[01:36:08] machine. The water's so dirty. Well,
[01:36:10] just I mean that's that's all the stuff
[01:36:12] coming off your records, man. That's
[01:36:13] what you're that's what you're removing.
[01:36:15] If the water is really dirty, that's an
[01:36:17] example the machine's doing what it's
[01:36:18] supposed to doing.
[01:36:20] >> Well, no, not really. Uh, the only time
[01:36:22] you'll see dirty gray water is if we
[01:36:24] have fungus on the record.
[01:36:28] >> Can I make I butt in here and make a
[01:36:29] point because I have uh Charles's
[01:36:32] machine as does Louie. Um, and um I
[01:36:36] noticed that when I was going through my
[01:36:38] records, I was seeing all kinds of black
[01:36:40] little, you know, all kinds of uh stuff
[01:36:43] sitting in the bottom. In fact, I took a
[01:36:45] picture of that which I'll be and I'm
[01:36:47] about both uh Lou and I are about to
[01:36:50] review uh Charles's record restoration
[01:36:53] system. So stay tuned for that on both
[01:36:55] of our channels because we will have
[01:36:56] that coming up soon. But I have taken a
[01:36:58] photo of the amount of schmutz as we
[01:37:01] call it Charles sitting in the bottom of
[01:37:04] that bath and and I mean look I mean
[01:37:06] I've used other machines as well but I
[01:37:08] just don't see that kind of stuff
[01:37:10] sitting in the bottom of other things
[01:37:12] >> because they don't do anything. I'm
[01:37:13] sorry. There's no cavitation. You know,
[01:37:15] you need to remove all all these
[01:37:17] machines are doing. The record is
[01:37:19] repelling the soap or the record is
[01:37:21] repelling the water. Heaven forbid
[01:37:24] someone uh as this chemical engineer
[01:37:26] said is using tap water. Two of the
[01:37:29] manufacturers of ultrasonics say, "Use
[01:37:31] tap water." What's in your freaking tap
[01:37:34] water at home?
[01:37:35] >> Yeah. You know, it's as bad as you going
[01:37:37] to your car wash, and they're air drying
[01:37:39] your car, not using brushes, and your
[01:37:42] car is as dirty as it was before. Come
[01:37:44] on, guys. We need some method of mechan
[01:37:48] mechanics to do something. So, so in
[01:37:51] this uh uh in this uh in this um um uh
[01:37:57] in in in in this material, the stuff
[01:38:00] settles to the bottom and it stays
[01:38:02] there. So, it is fungus. Uh sometimes
[01:38:05] the black stuff you see is from the poor
[01:38:08] cutings that we've had. Okay? And we do
[01:38:10] have that in the pressings as well. Uh
[01:38:13] but the water is not cloudy. That's why
[01:38:15] we ask every five minutes. Take the
[01:38:18] cover off.
[01:38:20] Take a look at the tank.
[01:38:23] If it's gray water, like what we do when
[01:38:25] we do at the end of the shows, we
[01:38:28] restore our glasses. We'll talk about
[01:38:31] that. We make an announcement in at the
[01:38:33] trade shows. come. We'll restore your
[01:38:35] glasses. The first glass that goes in,
[01:38:37] you can't see the bottom of the tank
[01:38:38] anymore because it's all oils. Okay? So,
[01:38:42] we'll kind of talk about that if you can
[01:38:43] remind me at the end because that's
[01:38:45] another use of the system for you. Uh
[01:38:47] but um uh when you see it gray, then get
[01:38:51] rid of the water just because you want
[01:38:53] to be proper because I wear a white lab
[01:38:55] coat. It's not going to affect your
[01:38:57] record because the record when it comes
[01:38:59] out of the KMAS is virtually dry. So,
[01:39:01] who cares? Okay. So I've removed the
[01:39:04] excess the little few droplets with
[01:39:05] that. So that has not made any impact on
[01:39:09] the system. But very important true
[01:39:11] ultrasonics you need to degass every
[01:39:13] four or five records. Why? When a when
[01:39:17] first you pour water into an ultrasonic
[01:39:19] you have air
[01:39:20] >> air.
[01:39:21] >> Air creates resistance and when the
[01:39:23] bubbles cavitate what happens? They
[01:39:25] create kinetic energy and they will
[01:39:28] increase the speed as which the
[01:39:30] temperature goes up.
[01:39:31] >> Yeah. Oh, by taking the cover off every
[01:39:33] five minutes I take a look. Oh, the
[01:39:35] water's cool. I think I've only twice in
[01:39:38] my career in this business since 2017
[01:39:41] had cloudy water. Uh, but I then do a
[01:39:45] degass because your records also are
[01:39:47] pushing the water away. So, we want to
[01:39:50] increase the efficiency of uh of
[01:39:53] cavitation and cavitation needs a
[01:39:56] preheater.
[01:39:58] When you pour water into any ultrasonic
[01:40:01] If it's a working cavitation machine,
[01:40:04] the range is about 68 degrees to about
[01:40:06] 100 degrees. Anything lower, anything
[01:40:09] higher, we do not have the efficiency of
[01:40:11] cavitation.
[01:40:13] >> So, in our process, we preheat the
[01:40:15] water. Doesn't affect your cleaning of
[01:40:17] your first cycle in the machine. We
[01:40:20] bring the temperature up to about 68 to
[01:40:22] 72. So, it's a plus or minus 10% uh if
[01:40:25] not less. uh and then afterwards the
[01:40:28] water heats by itself because of
[01:40:30] cavitational the kinetic energy. So
[01:40:33] there was an interesting question. Will
[01:40:35] 120 kilhertz
[01:40:37] uh machines uh destroy records?
[01:40:41] >> Okay.
[01:40:43] >> Can I use them on a record?
[01:40:46] >> Okay. I asked you guys in the audience.
[01:40:49] This isn't Kerma speaking. This is, you
[01:40:51] know, uh this is Stanley Kiss in high
[01:40:54] school physics and and uh and Mr. Mr.
[01:40:59] Neil, Mr. uh sorry, Mr. Cook in my
[01:41:02] chemistry class back to 71 to 74.
[01:41:07] Remember we earlier mentioned for people
[01:41:09] that have just come in. When we're
[01:41:11] looking at ultrasonic cleaning, we need
[01:41:13] to take a look at frequency. And the
[01:41:15] frequency is based on what we're trying
[01:41:17] to clean. Okay? And I'm using the word
[01:41:19] clean. No 20 bucks for the Red Cross
[01:41:23] over in Australia. Okay.
[01:41:24] >> Right. So I'm keeping count.
[01:41:26] >> Yeah, I know you're keeping count. So,
[01:41:29] uh, 25 kHz is great for oils. We do have
[01:41:32] oils on records, don't we? I'm letting
[01:41:35] you answer the question. 35 kHz, uh,
[01:41:39] creates a bubble size that is adequate
[01:41:42] to remove dirt, dust, and fungus, which
[01:41:44] is 3 to 5 microns. It's close enough to
[01:41:48] remove oils. So, that's what we remove.
[01:41:51] We use 120 kHz ultrasonics, whether
[01:41:54] they're real or not, whether they
[01:41:57] cavitate or not, whether I can measure
[01:42:00] the energy with a cattle prod or the
[01:42:03] other tester.
[01:42:05] The bubble size is yes, it's high
[01:42:08] impact, high power.
[01:42:12] Let's call it a,000 kilometers an hour.
[01:42:15] Not 810 at 45 or 46. Not 510 at 35 kHz.
[01:42:22] But the bubble size is minuscule.
[01:42:25] And what are we trying to remove? Yes,
[01:42:29] per my esteemed colleague J.R. Bllair,
[01:42:33] we have submicron detail in this. Okay,
[01:42:38] >> going back to uh my little prop, you
[01:42:41] will see
[01:42:44] the sub micron detail that is here
[01:42:47] that's being hidden by the pressing oil.
[01:42:50] Okay.
[01:42:50] >> Yeah. Right.
[01:42:52] >> Yes. That would be wonderful if we
[01:42:54] subject it to 120 kilhertz machine and
[01:42:57] if we change the charge of the record to
[01:42:59] be opposite to water. The 120 kHz would
[01:43:02] be wonderful. But we can't get into that
[01:43:05] because we have all these films that
[01:43:07] only the lower frequencies can do.
[01:43:11] >> There's never been education. I Everyone
[01:43:14] knows that I buy my machine from Kotison
[01:43:17] in China. Okay, this removes all these
[01:43:21] Charles isn't doing it. I buy it from
[01:43:23] the largest manufacturer of ultrasonics
[01:43:25] in the world. The building is 10 10
[01:43:28] football fields, okay, of production
[01:43:32] equipment, all automated, 30, 40
[01:43:34] injection machines. I'm not going to go
[01:43:36] and create an ultrasonic. I'm going to
[01:43:38] modify it because I have my own
[01:43:40] intellectual property. I'm going to make
[01:43:42] my own
[01:43:44] ultrasonic loading system for records
[01:43:47] because you cannot put more than four
[01:43:49] records in a seven liter tank.
[01:43:51] Otherwise, there's no cavitation.
[01:43:54] There's a loading factor. So, um, I had
[01:43:58] the conversation with these folks and,
[01:44:00] you know, they they they sell an adapter
[01:44:02] or the Chinese sell these little
[01:44:04] adapters where you have multiple records
[01:44:06] and whatever on a skewer and all of this
[01:44:09] nonsense. It kills the cavitation.
[01:44:12] And what are we trying to do? We're not
[01:44:15] interested in the 100 what 120 kHz does
[01:44:18] with substrates and gold migration and
[01:44:20] whatever. We're trying to remove oils
[01:44:23] first and then bore down
[01:44:25] >> and get size that we have. If we remove
[01:44:28] the film, I've removed the contaminants
[01:44:30] that were either fused at the factory or
[01:44:32] fused at your house by you not using a
[01:44:35] brush before you play a record that has
[01:44:38] not had the pressing oil removed.
[01:44:41] >> Yeah. All right. Well, look, I think
[01:44:43] we're getting close to the the uh the
[01:44:45] the the end of our of our show, but we
[01:44:48] want to wrap up with some
[01:44:50] >> any more questions that are maybe of of
[01:44:52] of of significant interest. Uh
[01:44:55] >> yeah, maybe maybe some rapid fire,
[01:44:57] Charles, and I think
[01:44:59] >> we've already addressed this one. I
[01:45:01] think this is all about changing the
[01:45:03] charge of the record so you get better
[01:45:04] performance, right?
[01:45:06] >> We do not use a pre-cleaning spray. We
[01:45:08] put the record in the machine, do a four
[01:45:10] minute cycle, take it out, remove the
[01:45:13] water, then apply the spray. That
[01:45:14] changes the charge of the record. Okay.
[01:45:17] And also, don't use sprays and then
[01:45:20] brushes because all you're doing is
[01:45:22] you're making the record shiny.
[01:45:24] >> Yeah.
[01:45:26] >> I think this is a question coming off of
[01:45:28] you tal you brought up earlier about
[01:45:30] storing records in sleeves and that also
[01:45:33] uh over time with the gas and everything
[01:45:35] will affect the vinyl. So what do what
[01:45:37] do what do we use?
[01:45:39] >> Yeah. Uh I I recommend uh looking for a
[01:45:42] sleeve that is made out of HDPE
[01:45:44] highdensity polyethylene. They do not
[01:45:47] out gas. They are anti-static. And
[01:45:50] having inside a 4 mil HDP
[01:45:54] plastic cover and also an alkaline
[01:45:57] paper, not a rice paper inside that
[01:46:01] makes the sleeve a little more rigid. We
[01:46:04] make one. It's a we call it a custodial
[01:46:06] sleeve. U rice paper you nick it
[01:46:09] humidity you create fungus all over
[01:46:11] again. And a lot of these sleeves you'll
[01:46:14] see even in some records you'll see
[01:46:18] white particles on the records. That's
[01:46:20] talcum powder from the record sleeve. A
[01:46:23] lot of these sleeves are made in China.
[01:46:25] There's no temperature being controlled
[01:46:27] in the facilities. The windows are open
[01:46:30] and they're using talcum powder to make
[01:46:31] sure the plastics don't stick. depending
[01:46:34] on your time of year.
[01:46:36] >> Yep. I've I've seen that firsthand,
[01:46:38] Charles. I know exactly what you're
[01:46:39] talking about.
[01:46:41] >> Yep. It looks like somebody's looking to
[01:46:43] know how did they pick up one of your
[01:46:45] units in Canada.
[01:46:47] >> Ah uh very good. If you're in uh
[01:46:50] Edmonton in in Alberta, uh we have
[01:46:54] National Audio Systems. Uh Wade Church
[01:46:56] is the operating manager. He's in
[01:46:59] Edmonton. He handles uh the West uh the
[01:47:02] West Coast. uh uh the prairie provinces
[01:47:05] including Saskatchewan, uh Manitoba, and
[01:47:08] obviously BC, uh Montreal, Quebec, and
[01:47:12] the Maritimes. It's acoustic
[01:47:13] technologies. Just send me a an email. I
[01:47:16] will gladly introduce you to them. Uh we
[01:47:20] got a audio file show special going on
[01:47:22] for this event, uh for the weekend and
[01:47:25] so on. So uh every one of our dealers um
[01:47:29] you know is uh is introduced to that
[01:47:32] where we provide extra sundries and
[01:47:34] whatever. Um I wanted to cover two
[01:47:36] things u if you may and not to interrupt
[01:47:40] the audience and I don't see all the
[01:47:41] questions. I open up this record. Okay.
[01:47:45] Brand new record. I've had it for a
[01:47:47] while. I opened it up and we have
[01:47:50] fingerprints and all sorts of stuff on
[01:47:52] there.
[01:47:53] >> Crazy how those are happening lately.
[01:47:55] Charles, by the way, new records coming
[01:47:57] out like used.
[01:47:59] >> I'm seeing this too, Lou. I'm seeing I'm
[01:48:01] see the quality is is really really has
[01:48:05] fallen away.
[01:48:06] >> There's a particular I won't mention
[01:48:07] names, but there's a particular uh
[01:48:09] manufacturer that makes some high high
[01:48:12] uh quality records that almost everyone
[01:48:15] I get looks filthy. Absolutely filthy.
[01:48:18] And it just blows my mind.
[01:48:19] >> Yeah. We had this uh uh uh and there
[01:48:22] there's a story for this for for you
[01:48:24] folks that really love music. Okay. Uh
[01:48:27] uh we had uh Bob Gman. He retired after
[01:48:30] 40 years being the bassoonist and record
[01:48:32] custodian for the Philadelphia
[01:48:34] Orchestra. We see him every year at the
[01:48:36] Capitol Audio Show. He's the guy with
[01:48:38] the brown bowler. I got my crazy hat and
[01:48:40] whatever. And he brought in a customer
[01:48:42] that got one of this company's 180 gram
[01:48:45] $185 records. We restored it. It was
[01:48:47] totally scratched. We brought it over to
[01:48:50] the reseller and said, "Hey, we need a
[01:48:52] new record." We got it, opened it up in
[01:48:55] front of the record reseller. Scratches
[01:48:59] and fingerprints. Brand new record.
[01:49:01] >> Oh, wow.
[01:49:02] >> Where did it come from? The same company
[01:49:05] does not go to our audio shows in the UK
[01:49:09] when we're there anymore because we're
[01:49:10] in the radio in the record section. Why?
[01:49:14] Everyone knows bring a new record to
[01:49:16] Keras and he will make it shine in the
[01:49:19] sense of audio. Okay.
[01:49:21] >> Yeah.
[01:49:22] >> You will hear the artist Dave Brewbeck
[01:49:24] this record here after restoration.
[01:49:26] You'll hear two instruments you've never
[01:49:28] heard before. Okay.
[01:49:31] >> And you'll see obviously with the with
[01:49:33] you'll feel it, you'll hear it. Your VU
[01:49:35] meters will do a lot more. There are a
[01:49:37] lot of things you don't need test
[01:49:39] equipment for. Your your ears and your
[01:49:41] sound stage will do it.
[01:49:43] than you'll ever have.
[01:49:46] >> That's right. That's right. Well, I have
[01:49:48] that record, Charles. I'm going to put
[01:49:49] that to the test.
[01:49:50] >> Okay.
[01:49:51] >> I haven't I haven't restored that my
[01:49:53] press of that yet, but I now you've got
[01:49:56] me intrigued. I am going to do that.
[01:49:58] >> Yeah. The first three Miles Davis
[01:50:00] records, they were all live on tape. Uh
[01:50:03] and because Miles got cheap plastic,
[01:50:05] remember to make the biscuit,
[01:50:08] sometimes you don't get the real
[01:50:09] plastic, right?
[01:50:10] uh you get chopped up records and
[01:50:13] whatever. Long story short, the first
[01:50:15] record restored, you hear the tape hiss
[01:50:16] that the engineer didn't take out. The
[01:50:19] other two records you hear, the first
[01:50:21] ones, these are the first three. You'll
[01:50:22] hear the ashtrays and chairs moving
[01:50:24] around that you do not hear. Would you
[01:50:28] buy this brand new record?
[01:50:33] >> You see that color?
[01:50:34] >> Yeah.
[01:50:35] >> Oh, wait, wait, hold on. That's
[01:50:37] producers error there. Yeah. Look at
[01:50:39] that color.
[01:50:40] >> Yeah. Okay. These were every single
[01:50:43] record sold at the Capitol Audio Show
[01:50:47] three years ago that were produced by a
[01:50:50] very famous person in this industry that
[01:50:53] J.R. Bllair had to bring me six records
[01:50:56] to restore the sound.
[01:51:00] One of them was warped audio file
[01:51:04] quality record.
[01:51:05] >> Wow.
[01:51:06] >> Mr. audio file himself
[01:51:09] and little phone call. Please come down
[01:51:12] and see me. People answer my phone calls
[01:51:15] even though I'm crazy with a rabbit and
[01:51:17] whatever with lab coats and we
[01:51:20] discovered that the records were in the
[01:51:22] press too long. So in my closing note,
[01:51:25] what I do is unless it's a new artist,
[01:51:29] by the way, I love an uh and her records
[01:51:33] are pressed by RTI. They are our minimum
[01:51:37] published specification. 1.3 to 1.4 dB
[01:51:40] gain more out of your cartridge and 8%
[01:51:44] more increase in frequency spectrum.
[01:51:47] Why? Always any record any of her
[01:51:50] pressings from RTI. Why? They use good
[01:51:53] plastic. On the opposite end, 20 30%
[01:51:58] more increase out of your cartridge
[01:52:00] output. 20 30 40% more signal or sorry
[01:52:05] more frequency response spectrum imagery
[01:52:07] soundstage harmonics and whatever on new
[01:52:11] records. So I only buy new records if
[01:52:14] they're new artists, new song. I have no
[01:52:16] choice. I go to the expensive
[01:52:18] neighborhoods. Um uh uh um u u I'm
[01:52:25] trying to figure out what that said. Uh
[01:52:27] >> commented on how you always have
[01:52:29] everything around you. You must have a
[01:52:30] new product you're working on like a
[01:52:32] desk where everything's just within
[01:52:34] reach. Sorry, I'm just showing comments.
[01:52:36] That's all.
[01:52:36] >> Okay. So, so, so quickly speaking, I go
[01:52:38] to Goodwill in the in the rich
[01:52:41] neighborhoods. I'm over 50. I'm over 60.
[01:52:43] I'm over 65.0 50 cents on Tuesdays.
[01:52:46] There are the original records, original
[01:52:48] pressings, original artwork.
[01:52:50] Everything's original. And guess what?
[01:52:53] The surface scratches and scuff marks
[01:52:55] are all in the outgassing. very few in
[01:52:59] the plastic and most of them I don't
[01:53:01] hear. When you do buy used records from
[01:53:05] record resellers, the first thing you do
[01:53:07] is what did you do to your record before
[01:53:10] you're selling it to me?
[01:53:12] >> You use distilled water, you use the
[01:53:15] cloth, whatever. I love you. Oh, you're
[01:53:19] using a chemical. What are you using?
[01:53:22] Blah blah blah blah. Well, what's in it?
[01:53:25] Go on, get the safe material safety data
[01:53:27] sheet available once you know what the
[01:53:30] ingredients are and it will tell you
[01:53:32] whether it's safe for plastics, safe for
[01:53:34] the plasticizer, safe for any pumps and
[01:53:37] rubber parts you may have in your
[01:53:39] machines. You need to watch out. We have
[01:53:42] we have people that will shine a record
[01:53:44] with lighter fluid and beta shoe polish
[01:53:47] to get more money. And at these record
[01:53:50] fairs, we see people that come with
[01:53:52] their baby buggies. the new crowd, they
[01:53:55] don't play the records, they collect
[01:53:58] them.
[01:53:59] They buy shiny records. So, I'm very,
[01:54:02] you know, when a guy says, "I only use
[01:54:04] distilled water," he's my friend. He
[01:54:07] really is. All of these, a shiny record
[01:54:09] is not a clean record. And definitely a
[01:54:12] shiny record is not a restored record.
[01:54:15] So, what's coming new? Tapes are in,
[01:54:18] guys. Compact cassette tapes are in
[01:54:21] >> here. be Keris Audio compact cassette
[01:54:26] tape cleaning machine that's coming out.
[01:54:29] >> Wow.
[01:54:29] >> It'll be here for Expona. If not for the
[01:54:32] Capital Audio Show. And here we have the
[01:54:35] Keris audio. God, I got more on the
[01:54:37] floor here. You guys made me work here
[01:54:40] today. I got lenses. I got all sorts of
[01:54:43] crap here. This is a uh Here we go.
[01:54:46] Let's see. There. There we go. Here. Uh
[01:54:49] this is a Get rid of the bottle.
[01:54:53] New Zealand, guys. Yuazis. This is from
[01:54:56] New Zealand. Okay.
[01:54:57] >> Yeah. Their wine's not as good as our
[01:54:59] one. I
[01:55:00] >> There we go. So, here, let me just get
[01:55:02] rid of this. So, here, this is a record
[01:55:05] selector that when I bring the records
[01:55:08] up front. There we go. The record will
[01:55:10] move all by itself.
[01:55:13] >> Okay.
[01:55:13] >> Oh, nice.
[01:55:14] >> And then you choose the record you want.
[01:55:17] Take it out.
[01:55:19] Put this back. And then what we do is
[01:55:22] we'll do the same thing. There we go.
[01:55:26] >> And it stops at the place where you took
[01:55:28] it.
[01:55:28] >> So these are 20 records. They'll do all
[01:55:31] of They'll do the the 78s. They'll do
[01:55:34] 45s. Um long story short, that's going
[01:55:38] to be available in three months. And
[01:55:40] it's a gift. It's a gift for folks to
[01:55:44] give um to an audio file for a birthday.
[01:55:48] >> Great. That's a great present for an
[01:55:49] audio file. Yeah, it's great. Keep it
[01:55:51] next to your turntable for the records
[01:55:54] that you've restored or the records you
[01:55:55] want to play with friends, you know, and
[01:55:58] it fits into the callex with a nice
[01:56:00] little slider,
[01:56:01] >> which is awesome.
[01:56:02] >> So hopefully you'll may even see it at
[01:56:04] IKEA being sold.
[01:56:08] >> Right now, what I want to do right now
[01:56:10] is I want to thank everybody um for for
[01:56:13] coming along and and Oh, look out.
[01:56:15] Charles has got the Veggie Mite, mate.
[01:56:17] Come on. We got to get some of that for
[01:56:18] you, Louie. I tell you. Um but but but
[01:56:21] that aside, look um thank you all very
[01:56:23] much. This was our very first one of
[01:56:25] these and um and I think we've done
[01:56:28] really really well just quietly. It
[01:56:30] looks like it rolled really well. Thank
[01:56:32] thank you very much all the people that
[01:56:34] jumped on and asked their questions of
[01:56:36] Charles. Um we are we are going to have
[01:56:40] now Charles is coming down to Australia.
[01:56:42] Um we can
[01:56:43] >> we show Yep.
[01:56:45] >> Yep. We're gonna So I'll be down there
[01:56:47] with Charles. Um G wish you were there,
[01:56:48] Lou, but I got to get over to the States
[01:56:50] soon and and I'll meet everybody over
[01:56:52] there when I get to America for Exponer.
[01:56:55] Um we're hoping for that. And uh and
[01:56:58] Charles is going to eat some Vegemite
[01:56:59] for us to finish this off and that will
[01:57:01] be wonderful. Um but but because he's
[01:57:03] not a real Aussie till he's done that.
[01:57:05] But but look, thank you all very very
[01:57:07] much. Um Louie has done an amazing job
[01:57:10] being the producer there. Thank you,
[01:57:12] brother. That is sensational work. He's
[01:57:14] been keeping me fed with what I need to
[01:57:16] know. He has been the absolute engine
[01:57:18] and we are just to let you all know we
[01:57:21] are working with software that we we
[01:57:22] literally downloaded this week. So
[01:57:24] there's a little bit of from the a bit
[01:57:26] of backstory. We are we are literally we
[01:57:28] may look like a duck. We may be calm on
[01:57:30] top of the water but we are paddling
[01:57:33] like crazy underneath. And I think it
[01:57:34] all went pretty well. I want to thank
[01:57:36] you Charles very very much for being our
[01:57:39] our inaugural guest here on the audio
[01:57:42] file show. We're going to be doing a lot
[01:57:43] of these everybody. So, make sure you
[01:57:45] keep locking in this time because we're
[01:57:48] going to we want you we we want you, as
[01:57:50] the Americans say, and that's what we
[01:57:53] really want to do. We want to get you
[01:57:54] here. We want you involved in this.
[01:57:56] Charles has been magnificent. We've
[01:57:58] learned a lot, Charles, today. I want to
[01:58:00] thank you from the bottom of both of our
[01:58:01] hearts for coming on here and and
[01:58:03] sharing your life story, the things that
[01:58:06] make you tick as a human being, the
[01:58:08] things that make you real, which is what
[01:58:10] this show is all about. And then what we
[01:58:13] end up getting is is a product from you
[01:58:15] that that we know works and and I can
[01:58:19] certainly we'll be talking about that in
[01:58:20] in our in my review. I know Louie will
[01:58:22] be in his. So they are to come. I also
[01:58:25] have a video that video that you sent me
[01:58:27] Charles which I will put up on the
[01:58:29] channel um of the Mexico um uh record uh
[01:58:33] restoration stuff. We're going to get in
[01:58:35] there. We're going to do that. I'll show
[01:58:36] you that on the channel and maybe Louie
[01:58:38] can drop that as well on for his
[01:58:39] audience and I can get that across to
[01:58:41] him. So, look again, thank you all very
[01:58:43] much. We will see you at the Melbourne
[01:58:45] uh Stereoet Melbourne Hi-Fi Show,
[01:58:47] Charles and I and um hopefully all three
[01:58:50] of us will be together at Expona next
[01:58:53] year where I can meet some of my
[01:58:55] American family and we're really looking
[01:58:57] forward to
[01:58:57] >> to the the time that happens as well.
[01:59:00] So, I I've spoken enough. Louie, what
[01:59:02] would you like to say? I'm just so uh
[01:59:04] grateful for the community for
[01:59:05] supporting us. Thank you for all the
[01:59:07] wonderful questions and of course thank
[01:59:08] you Charles for spending your evening
[01:59:11] with us. It's a Saturday night for you
[01:59:13] as well. I'm sure you have lots of
[01:59:14] things that you could be doing and
[01:59:16] you're taking that time to not only
[01:59:18] spend with Shane and I but with the
[01:59:19] entire audio community. So, thank you
[01:59:22] for that for for coming here and kind of
[01:59:24] giving us a little bit behind the
[01:59:25] scenes, the man behind the rabbit, if
[01:59:27] you will.
[01:59:27] >> You got me emotional here, guys.
[01:59:29] >> Oh, really appreciate it, Charles. Thank
[01:59:31] you. You know, it it it all starts with
[01:59:33] with with with a passion for the hobby.
[01:59:36] We need to get other younger kids
[01:59:38] involved and whatever. Uh I'm I'm
[01:59:41] honored and and and very blessed uh to
[01:59:44] have the chance to meet peers. U you
[01:59:48] know, we're we're a small family
[01:59:49] business. Um all of this was by
[01:59:52] accident. Uh and now, you know, going
[01:59:55] after tapes and going after things. Um
[01:59:58] it's it's it's a lunacy. It really is.
[02:00:02] But you know what? Why not? We need to
[02:00:04] enjoy what we do. And I apologize if we
[02:00:07] didn't get to all the questions. Please
[02:00:09] send me an email. Uh I answer every
[02:00:12] single email that comes in. I direct
[02:00:15] people to folks that are there. Um and
[02:00:19] uh you know, I like to set the standard
[02:00:21] and the standard with everything. You
[02:00:22] know, if you buy speakers, if you buy
[02:00:24] cartridges, you buy amplifiers, they all
[02:00:27] sound a bit different. Okay. I like
[02:00:30] Julian Margulus from the Margulus
[02:00:32] company in Mexico. U Louis had the
[02:00:35] chance to meet him. Uh he's trying to
[02:00:37] develop machines to allow the industry
[02:00:41] to really measure what our brains are
[02:00:43] hearing and it's the harmonics, the
[02:00:45] tone, the resonances. That's where music
[02:00:47] is. You speak to any musician, they will
[02:00:49] tell you that's what it is. You speak to
[02:00:51] any sound engineer like Shane, that's
[02:00:54] where it is. So, my attempt is
[02:00:58] just like JR, hit the stamper and then
[02:01:01] hit the stamper properly with your um uh
[02:01:05] with your uh cartridge, your your
[02:01:08] needle, and then use like what Norm at
[02:01:11] AV room services, isolation, whether it
[02:01:14] be equipment, whether it be room
[02:01:16] acoustics, those three things. You do
[02:01:19] not need to buy a 20,000 or $200,000
[02:01:22] turntable. Let's get your turntable set
[02:01:26] up the right way to play the stamper. So
[02:01:29] that's me. Uh and and if I come across,
[02:01:31] you know, know it all that I had to
[02:01:33] learn all this through books.
[02:01:36] >> And the same thing with ultrasonics.
[02:01:38] >> Yeah.
[02:01:38] >> Simple question. How many cabins or
[02:01:41] watts per square centimeter
[02:01:44] is generated? You don't need any of the
[02:01:46] other stuff that I have here. Just ask
[02:01:49] and you'll be surprised.
[02:01:52] It's
[02:01:54] >> and I love the spin clean. I love the
[02:01:56] spin clean. So, we need to face the
[02:01:57] veggomite.
[02:01:58] >> Yes.
[02:01:59] >> Oh, wait. Let me get you on the big
[02:02:01] screen, Charles. Hold on. There we go.
[02:02:03] >> Okay. You know what I'm going to do?
[02:02:06] >> Okay. For for uh could you explain,
[02:02:08] Shane, uh to all the others that are not
[02:02:11] Australians what this is?
[02:02:13] >> This is um this is what they make roads
[02:02:16] out of. Um this is uh this is uh this is
[02:02:19] this is Australian bumen essentially.
[02:02:21] This This is Well, it it the the the
[02:02:25] Chinese and the Japanese like to call
[02:02:27] this umami because it has a uh Oh, come
[02:02:31] on, Charles. Now, I'm going to do Look
[02:02:32] at this.
[02:02:34] Ah.
[02:02:36] Oh.
[02:02:37] >> Oh my god.
[02:02:37] >> Just eat it straight off your finger. If
[02:02:39] you're an Aussie, you will love this
[02:02:41] stuff.
[02:02:41] >> You know what?
[02:02:43] >> You'll love it.
[02:02:43] >> You know what?
[02:02:46] >> Oh, there you go.
[02:02:47] >> It ain't bad.
[02:02:48] >> There you go.
[02:02:50] Oh, look at that. I'll turn him into an
[02:02:53] Australian before I'm done with him yet.
[02:02:56] >> Oh, this is I think the rye bread made
[02:02:59] the difference.
[02:03:00] >> There you go. There you go. So, look
[02:03:03] everybody, thank you so very very much
[02:03:04] for for um for being here today. We've
[02:03:07] had a ball bringing this show to you. Uh
[02:03:09] we can't wait. We're going to start
[02:03:11] planning our second one pretty quick,
[02:03:12] smart Lou, because this was lots of fun.
[02:03:14] We want to build our audience. We want
[02:03:16] to get you guys involved. Again,
[02:03:18] Charles, from the bottom of our hearts,
[02:03:21] um we we are very grateful to you
[02:03:23] sharing your knowledge around this
[02:03:26] topic, this is what this show is all
[02:03:28] about. And I think we can both I can
[02:03:30] speak for Louie when I say we are v both
[02:03:33] very very proud to have had you as our
[02:03:35] very first guest on the uh audio file
[02:03:38] show. vinyl rules and everyone spin
[02:03:43] those records,
[02:03:45] sit down, turn the lights down, have a
[02:03:48] nice supper and enjoy it with friends.
[02:03:51] >> Love it.
[02:03:52] >> Absolutely. Well said. So, we'll see you
[02:03:55] next