# The Real Bottleneck in OCS Isn't in Space — It's on the Ground - Jean-Francois Morizur, CAILABS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od9NMdl7224

[00:12] Hello, [music] I'm Jose Pozo with
[00:13] another deep tech interview. Back in
[00:15] February ESA, [music] Airbus, Tesat, and
[00:18] TNO announced something that what they
[00:20] described as the world's first 2.6
[00:23] gigabit per second laser link between an
[00:25] aircraft and a geostationary satellite.
[00:28] That was an [music] important milestone
[00:29] for optical communications. It suggested
[00:33] that high capacity optical links are in
[00:35] the air and are moving closer to real
[00:38] operational use.
[00:40] But it also raises a bigger question. If
[00:42] optical links are improving rapidly in
[00:45] the air and in space, where is the next
[00:47] bottleneck? My guest today argues that
[00:50] the answer is on the ground.
[00:52] Jean-François Morissure is the CEO of
[00:55] Cailabs, an optical corporate member
[00:57] focused on optical ground stations and
[01:00] laser communications. Cailabs Silva ELT
[01:03] was recently named one of Time's best
[01:05] innovations of 2025.
[01:08] Jean-François, welcome. Thank you very
[01:11] much for your time today. When you saw
[01:13] the Tesat, ESA, Airbus, and TNO
[01:15] announcement about the 2.6 gigabit per
[01:18] second laser link between an aircraft
[01:20] and a geostationary satellite, what do
[01:23] you think it proved to the industry? Is
[01:25] this an impressive demonstration or are
[01:27] we now crossing into something
[01:28] operational?
[01:30] It is It is impressive demonstration
[01:33] um
[01:34] for many many reasons. And when you
[01:36] you're in that field, you know all the
[01:38] challenges uh related to
[01:40] dealing with, you know, example is the
[01:42] vibration of the aircraft or dealing
[01:44] with, you know, the uh the pointing
[01:46] accuracy uh from the geo satellite to
[01:48] the ground and vice versa.
[01:50] Uh and the link budgets um because it's,
[01:53] you know, geo is far,
[01:56] 36,000 km.
[01:57] So, all of that means that you
[02:00] you do have um it's a very challenging.
[02:03] Uh delivering 2.6 gig is is very um is a
[02:07] very impressive thing.
[02:09] This is part of like a ray
[02:12] multiple demos, multiple validations of
[02:16] um of optical.
[02:17] Um I mean, optical between satellites,
[02:20] it's deployed in very high volume today.
[02:22] Uh
[02:23] most of the large constellations today,
[02:25] they are working with optical
[02:27] inter-satellite links.
[02:29] Um
[02:30] And and this is here to stay. This is
[02:32] This is already industrial. And now, if
[02:35] you start to give access, optical access
[02:37] to uh an aircraft
[02:39] uh suddenly, you have multiple impacts.
[02:42] You have the impact that the the
[02:43] aircraft gets more connectivity. So, you
[02:45] know, you can have more in-boat Wi-Fi.
[02:48] It gets better uh just obviously. Uh but
[02:50] beyond this, it also gives you I mean,
[02:53] it means you also need more data
[02:55] transfer within the satellites because
[02:57] anything that goes comes up at some
[02:59] point, you need to transfer it around.
[03:00] And then you need to bring it down.
[03:03] And that's another challenging aspect.
[03:04] How do you bring uh you know, data down
[03:07] to the ground because that's where your
[03:08] Netflix uh video is or that's where the
[03:12] drone information you're capturing needs
[03:14] to come come back to.
[03:15] And uh yeah.
[03:16] >> most interesting parts of your
[03:18] argumentation is that once you get out
[03:20] the atmosphere, optical links become
[03:23] much more attractive. Like the
[03:24] turbulence, the weather distortion, and
[03:26] all this ugliness are really
[03:28] concentrated in the path back down to
[03:30] Earth. Exactly.
[03:32] >> audience today, why is the airborne to
[03:35] space part becoming easier to scale than
[03:38] the final space to ground connection?
[03:41] So, it's interesting is that General
[03:43] Atomics also did a demonstration
[03:45] recently where they did um airborne to
[03:47] space um
[03:49] airborne to space, you're above the
[03:51] turbulence. You don't You have less
[03:52] impact of the atmosphere. So, you can
[03:55] use uh smaller terminals
[03:57] uh because you Yeah, because the the
[04:00] turbulence the effect of the atmosphere
[04:02] is less strong uh on your beam of light.
[04:05] Indeed, the going through the atmosphere
[04:08] to the ground requires not only dealing
[04:11] with the pointing and stuff like that,
[04:13] which you already also need to deal with
[04:15] between satellites. I mean, now you
[04:16] know, it's the same very long distance
[04:18] and the laser beam that are very narrow.
[04:20] But you also need need your laser goes
[04:22] through the atmosphere.
[04:24] And one of the effect um that you can
[04:27] actually see with your own eyes is a
[04:28] twinkling. So, if if my eye I'm looking
[04:31] at I'm looking at the star, I see the
[04:32] stars twinkle. A star doesn't twinkle.
[04:35] The The power emitted by the star is
[04:37] extremely flat. It's more like the
[04:38] twinkling is the result of the
[04:39] interaction between the the beam of
[04:42] light that is
[04:43] deformed basically by the atmosphere and
[04:45] my own eye. And you've got the same
[04:47] thing basically for a laser beam. And
[04:49] this twinkling is what kills you uh when
[04:52] you go satellite to ground, when you go
[04:54] aircraft to ground. Basically, when you
[04:56] need to go up I mean, when you need to
[04:58] go down to the data center. So, of
[05:00] course, you've got people that say we're
[05:02] going to put data centers in space.
[05:04] That's an option. Um
[05:06] but even if you do that, you need to be
[05:07] able to connect those data center back
[05:09] to ground because this is where all the
[05:11] volumes of data is. Um so, this
[05:14] bottleneck, if you keep using radio for
[05:16] that, you've got a big problem. Um
[05:17] today, some of large architecture we see
[05:20] are using this. And this is why there's
[05:22] so much pressure to get optical down to
[05:24] the ground. And recently, um you had
[05:27] SpaceX announcing this.
[05:30] Um that they would uh they would do Elon
[05:32] Musk tweeted that they would do uh
[05:34] optical space to ground. Um you had uh
[05:37] Terrawave announcing that they would do
[05:38] optical space to ground also. That was
[05:40] part of the architecture. And most of
[05:43] the all all the other all large
[05:45] constellation are basically saying,
[05:46] "Yes, we need optical space to ground on
[05:48] the line." And it's it's a challenge. Uh
[05:50] it's a very interesting challenge. It's
[05:52] a It's a very It's both technical
[05:54] business challenge. It's It's very
[05:55] interesting one.
[05:56] I I I agree with you. Actually, I
[05:58] believe that we have had satellite
[06:00] communication, I think, for about 70
[06:02] years. In the last years, we have we
[06:04] have invested heavily on optical
[06:06] communication with satellites. And I
[06:08] believe that industry has spent really a
[06:11] long time treating the atmospheric layer
[06:13] as a as a technical nuisance when it
[06:16] really is the the central system
[06:18] problem. And I believe right now, I
[06:20] can't believe that everybody sees that
[06:22] this is the place to concentrate.
[06:24] Cailabs is solving that. Yeah, yeah. So,
[06:27] I'm not sure it's the place to
[06:28] concentrate because there's so many
[06:30] things in that field where you need
[06:33] effort. So,
[06:34] I mean, today, for example, being able
[06:36] to scale optical terminals in space is
[06:39] also another point. Like they need so
[06:40] many because you need multiple units of
[06:43] optical multiple optical terminals per
[06:45] satellite. And then you've got these
[06:47] large constellations where we're
[06:48] talking, you know, 8,000, 10,000
[06:51] satellites. So, this actually is a lot
[06:54] of volume of equipment. And this is
[06:56] another challenge. It's like, how do you
[06:57] make,
[06:59] you know, 80,000 or like basically
[07:02] space-qualified optical terminals,
[07:06] not just one or two, but 80,000. And
[07:09] then those are LEO constellations. And
[07:11] so, they need to be replenished every,
[07:13] you know, 10 years. And 10 years is kind
[07:15] of a next kind of a optimistic um time
[07:18] frame. And so, basically, it means that
[07:20] every year, you need It's not just
[07:22] 10,000. Every year, another thousand
[07:25] on top of the growth. So,
[07:27] I think this is like there's a challenge
[07:29] in every part of that ecosystem. But
[07:30] yes, I agree with you. There's a
[07:32] challenge between satellite and ground.
[07:34] Um
[07:35] and the the challenge of the atmosphere.
[07:37] So, saying it's a central, I don't like
[07:38] because it's It's like there's
[07:40] challenges everywhere. The technical
[07:41] challenge is The challenges are
[07:42] different. Um and um at Cailabs, we
[07:45] focused on dealing on making optical
[07:48] ground stations. And so, we are focused
[07:50] on dealing with that. So, 200 people
[07:52] dedicated to making sure that we've got
[07:54] a solution for that, a solution that can
[07:56] scale, a solution that can be, you know,
[07:57] provided high volume. And we are rolling
[08:00] out those ground stations. We're
[08:01] deploying those. And yes, it it's it's
[08:03] basically like our single-minded focus
[08:06] is on going through the atmosphere. Um
[08:09] and I think it's like um
[08:10] And it's because of that focus that we
[08:13] are we are able to provide something. It
[08:14] It did It was a technical a a very big
[08:17] technical challenge.
[08:19] Let's talk about use cases now,
[08:21] Jean-François. When when
[08:23] when you can move multi-gigabit data
[08:25] streams from drones, aircrafts, ISR
[08:28] platforms, ISR is intelligence,
[08:30] surveillance, and reconnaissance
[08:32] platforms in real time, this is no
[08:35] longer just a communication upgrade.
[08:37] What we are doing is enabling systems to
[08:39] do things they couldn't do before. Yeah.
[08:41] What becomes possible when a single
[08:43] airborne platform can generate and move
[08:46] two to 2.6 gigabit per per second
[08:49] reliably? And where do existing RF
[08:52] architectures start to break? Okay. So,
[08:56] when you when you think about, you know,
[08:58] you scale up the um the aircraft to
[09:01] satellite, the the one that was
[09:02] demonstrated. And you say, "Well, it's
[09:03] not just one aircraft."
[09:05] How many aircrafts do you have above the
[09:07] Atlantic? A lot.
[09:09] So, all of those need those this kind of
[09:12] data rate.
[09:13] Then you aggregate all of that. And then
[09:15] you need to bring it down from the
[09:16] satellite to the ground. And the
[09:17] aggregation You cannot afford to have
[09:19] one satellite per aircraft. The same way
[09:21] you cannot afford to have one satellite
[09:22] per drone. So,
[09:25] you're asking when do does it break? It
[09:27] breaks at the aggregation level. It
[09:29] breaks at the point where you need to
[09:30] share a satellite with multiple assets.
[09:34] And so, if you come up to the satellite
[09:36] at one gig, at 10 gig, um then you need
[09:40] to bring down the data at 100 gig, 200
[09:42] gig, 400 gig. And that's that's a
[09:44] challenge.
[09:45] Um and this is where that that breaks.
[09:48] Um
[09:49] in K band for earth observation, you can
[09:51] get to multiple gigabit per second in
[09:53] radio
[09:54] um from a satellite to the ground. Um
[09:57] but
[09:59] you can go beyond that. You can go to
[10:01] 10, you can not you cannot go to 100.
[10:03] And I think what we're seeing today is
[10:05] people coming with a need for 100
[10:07] gigabits per second downlink, for
[10:09] example, from earth observation
[10:10] satellite back to the ground. Um or as
[10:12] you as I just said like aggregation of
[10:14] data uh flow from multiple drones or
[10:17] multiple airplanes back to the ground
[10:19] and through that. I mean, you can
[10:21] describe situations where you could go
[10:23] multiple tens of gigabits per second
[10:25] with radio, but that requires
[10:27] complicated radio. It's not simple and
[10:29] it also require the ability to get that
[10:31] spectrum. So, you you you and these
[10:34] these spectrums are expensive today. If
[10:35] you you you you've seen the transaction
[10:38] of Globalstar being bought by Amazon
[10:40] Leo. Part of the price of the 12 billion
[10:42] price was the the spectrum. You've seen
[10:44] the acquisition of um EchoStar spectrum
[10:47] to um by SpaceX. I mean, part of the 17
[10:50] billion price tag was or actually I
[10:52] think that for that one it was 100% was
[10:54] for the spectrum. So,
[10:57] if you don't own the spectrum, how do
[10:58] you do it? You know, you've got to have
[11:00] a solution for that. So, the optical
[11:02] part allows you to get high bandwidth
[11:05] without spectrum. Which is kind of the
[11:07] the challenge very very big challenge
[11:09] there. Um if I don't have a 17 billion,
[11:12] then I still have a solution to bring
[11:13] down 100 gigabits of data with um with
[11:17] my for my earth observation satellite.
[11:19] And now the question is why would you
[11:21] want to do that? Consider the fact that
[11:23] today for earth observation satellite
[11:26] I'm taking a picture. My maximum if I'm
[11:29] if I'm using the X-band is 600 megabits
[11:32] per second.
[11:33] But my pass above a radio antenna is,
[11:36] you know, 8 minutes, 10 minutes.
[11:39] So, I'm going to be able to communicate.
[11:41] I'm going to pump as much as I can
[11:42] during those 10 minutes.
[11:44] But it's not going to be
[11:46] able to downlink the full memory that
[11:48] I've got on my satellite. Typically,
[11:50] you've got 100 gigabyte of of memory on
[11:52] your satellite. You're not able to
[11:54] you're just going to need to wait for
[11:55] the next antenna and then the next
[11:57] antenna and the next antenna. You may
[11:58] need multiple orbits to actually bring
[12:00] down the full memory you've got. So,
[12:02] what it means is that if I'm taking
[12:04] multiple pictures of say the Red Sea or
[12:07] the almost straight or the border in
[12:10] Ukraine or the border between the
[12:11] Koreas,
[12:13] you basically have a big issue on how
[12:15] fast you can bring that that that data.
[12:17] And if I'm bringing back that data 8
[12:19] hours later, it has far less value than
[12:22] if I bring that, you know, 10 minutes
[12:23] later. This is why bringing that fast
[12:25] the data and going to optical unlocks so
[12:28] many things. The the optical means that
[12:31] you can go 10 gig, you can go 100 gig.
[12:33] This is massive this has massive impact
[12:36] on earth observation. It's not science
[12:37] fiction. It's really like just dumping
[12:40] the memory.
[12:41] It's simple. Very very simple.
[12:44] This is where your argument really
[12:45] really gets interesting because the
[12:46] public tends to focus on the spectacular
[12:49] parts, the link in the sky. But we are
[12:52] seeing a real bottleneck on the ground
[12:54] segment. So, so what is what is actually
[12:57] missing in the ground today? Is it
[13:01] terminal density, network architecture,
[13:03] cost, weather reliance?
[13:05] There's I think we need to look at the
[13:07] market in two different ways. There's
[13:08] the earth observation market and then
[13:10] there's a satcom market. Um
[13:13] and and both are the dynamics of those
[13:15] markets are going to be different. Earth
[13:17] observation market,
[13:19] there's a need for sufficient
[13:21] optical ground infrastructure
[13:24] that justifies the investment for the
[13:28] earth observation satellite to put
[13:30] optical terminals in space.
[13:33] So,
[13:34] today if I'm if I'm I've I've got a
[13:36] fleet of earth observation satellites
[13:40] and I have to choose between RF and
[13:42] optical,
[13:43] my concern is going to be well, there's
[13:45] not that many optical ground station on
[13:46] the ground to to to connect. So, I'm
[13:49] going to have an asset with an optical
[13:51] terminal in there and I'm going to have
[13:52] to wait one, two, three orbits, four
[13:54] orbits before I bring down the data.
[13:57] That's a no-go because you you I mean,
[13:59] as I just mentioned, you want speed.
[14:01] So, even if it's faster during the
[14:02] moment you're above it, well, it takes
[14:04] so long. So, you need basically like the
[14:07] critical mass is about the once per
[14:10] orbit. You know, you need to have ground
[14:11] station that is once per orbit you
[14:14] you're going to be able to dump the dump
[14:15] your data. And if you can get more than
[14:17] that, it's even better and so on and so
[14:19] on.
[14:20] So, it's not that many, but you need
[14:21] more than what you've got today and you
[14:23] need to it needs to be
[14:25] like a consistent experience. You like
[14:27] you like the you need to be able to say
[14:29] yes, it's going to work all the time.
[14:31] It's not going to be exceptional. It's
[14:32] not going to be So, that's kind of a
[14:34] kind of a more professional situation.
[14:37] Um and a lot of people are going in that
[14:38] direction.
[14:40] Um so, we're partnering with some of
[14:42] those and we we are we want we Kayrros
[14:43] is also contributing in that in that
[14:45] direction also.
[14:46] Um and this is this is something we we
[14:49] strongly believe in like having this
[14:50] critical mass triggers the um the um the
[14:53] adoption of optical. And
[14:56] um and this is from the discussions we
[14:57] had with multiple constellations that is
[14:59] something that is they clearly they
[15:00] clearly told us. For the satcom, it's
[15:02] different because it goes in lockstep.
[15:05] For satcom, people they they tend to own
[15:08] their ground or use it 100% all the time
[15:10] so they they have a strong influence on
[15:12] what ground they're using, at least for
[15:13] the gateway side. Um what ground they're
[15:16] using and then what satellite they roll
[15:18] out and what they put in the satellite.
[15:20] So, in this situation, more like
[15:21] architecture discussion. When do you do
[15:24] a trade-off between an RF on one side
[15:25] and optical on the other? When do I move
[15:28] what do I want to do this generation
[15:30] with RF, this generation with optical?
[15:32] What do you want to hybrid and stuff
[15:34] like that? And so, a lot of the
[15:36] challenge here is to basically
[15:39] it deals with risk. So,
[15:42] it deals with the idea that
[15:44] going very high capacity with radio also
[15:47] carries a risk. It's it's still very
[15:49] complicated. Like you're you're you're
[15:51] reaching the edges. You're reaching the
[15:53] high complexity situation. Um and but at
[15:56] the same time, it's a familiar
[15:57] technology so people feel familiar with
[15:59] radio. They feel ah yeah, it's going to
[16:00] be okay. So, the more we demonstrate
[16:03] like what we did with Kepler like with,
[16:05] you know, years worth of passes, routine
[16:07] passes with with Kepler. Um
[16:10] the more we demonstrate that with the
[16:11] more you reduce the risk of optical
[16:13] versus the you know, the
[16:15] the crazy radio or like the high-speed
[16:17] radio. And then suddenly it becomes like
[16:19] a more like a trade-off. Which one is
[16:21] best? Um and then you start to see like
[16:25] maybe you don't put all your eggs in the
[16:26] same basket. Maybe you start to do
[16:27] hybrid architecture. You don't put like
[16:29] a massive bet on one and not zero on the
[16:32] other. And so, that's kind of what
[16:34] what's up what we see happening in the
[16:36] in the market today. It's like
[16:38] it's not the same dynamic in the satcom
[16:40] and the earth observation markets.
[16:43] You're really making a an end-to-end
[16:44] argument. I love this because you
[16:46] realize when when I listen to you, I
[16:48] realize that it's not enough to solve
[16:49] satellite to aircraft, it's not enough
[16:51] to to solve satellite to ground. The
[16:54] full chain needs to has to work sort of
[16:56] as a coherent optical backbone. So, what
[16:59] does that backbone look like in
[17:01] practice? I mean, if you were advising
[17:03] governments, space primes, satellite
[17:06] operators, what would you tell them to
[17:08] build first so that this does not become
[17:10] a fragmented set of optical demos with
[17:13] no scalable downlink architecture behind
[17:15] it? My recommendation would be it's what
[17:18] I on the satcom part is
[17:21] don't put all your eggs in the same
[17:22] basket. You need to change from um
[17:26] a question of binary 0 1 to uh a
[17:31] question of hybrid.
[17:32] And I'm going to give you a specific
[17:33] example that I I find very interesting
[17:36] is
[17:37] when we talk to some of the government
[17:38] you were you were mentioning
[17:39] governments. Optical access,
[17:42] you know, it's impaired by by clouds.
[17:45] It's well known. There's no no no way
[17:46] around that. Well, maybe there are some
[17:48] ways moving to crazy wavelengths, but
[17:50] then the rest of industries is not
[17:51] there. So, that's an impairment, but so
[17:53] then you you sometimes you have people
[17:54] that say, well, actually that means the
[17:56] optical cannot be used because, you
[17:57] know, clouds.
[17:59] And then
[18:00] when I talk to some of the government we
[18:02] we talked to and they basically say,
[18:03] well, yeah, but my enemy knows how to
[18:05] jam my radio.
[18:07] So, in that case, it's it's more like
[18:10] yeah, well, I've got no radio in some
[18:11] cases.
[18:13] And so, if I've got no radio, then
[18:14] optical is better than than than just no
[18:16] nothing.
[18:17] >> [laughter]
[18:18] >> And so so suddenly it becomes a question
[18:20] of how do I make a hybrid system? And so
[18:22] in in in defense, there's this PACE kind
[18:25] of architecture with primary, alternate,
[18:27] contingency, emergency. And and
[18:29] basically it's like okay, I'm going to
[18:30] put in some optical as one of those
[18:33] links as one of the probably not the
[18:35] primary. Primary might be a radio, but
[18:37] the alternate or the contingency might
[18:39] be optical depending on the on the
[18:40] configuration because with this will
[18:42] have a different threat vector than the
[18:45] the the than that it would be sensitive
[18:47] to different things than than the radio
[18:48] part. And so, my my point there is
[18:51] basically saying
[18:52] yes, it's more complex, but at the same
[18:54] time it creates a lot of value. And if
[18:56] you're a prime, then you used to dealing
[18:58] at system level. You used to dealing at
[19:00] at those kind of, you know, having that
[19:03] those trade-off, those architecture
[19:04] trade-off. And so, you used about you
[19:06] used to work with that complexity.
[19:08] They're already working with very high
[19:10] complexity in radio field like multiple
[19:13] bands and multiple satellites and and
[19:15] networks that can actually jump from one
[19:17] orbit to the like some antennas today
[19:20] they are they're hybrid. They can
[19:21] connect to a a Leo satellite if it's
[19:23] available or geo satellite if it's not.
[19:25] And so, that is kind of thing that, you
[19:28] know,
[19:29] this kind of hybridization is already in
[19:31] embedded in in the system we see and I
[19:34] think this is something that's going to
[19:35] go you know, grow basically with
[19:38] optical. And it creates value add
[19:40] actually for the primes for the guys who
[19:42] make the systems because if you're able
[19:44] to incorporate optical as a one of the
[19:48] links of the satcom,
[19:50] make it as transparent as possible for
[19:52] your client for your government client,
[19:54] well, the government loves you.
[19:57] If we talk about the entire end-to-end,
[20:00] where do you think we are maybe under
[20:02] investing? It's very known that you when
[20:04] you when when you're invest things
[20:08] in space, you tend to focus on the
[20:10] spacecraft and not enough not enough on
[20:12] the ground. Um, I do believe there's a
[20:14] little bit of that. Um,
[20:16] but you know, that's how it is.
[20:18] Especially for some of the government
[20:20] programs,
[20:21] um, or like national programs because
[20:24] building the spacecraft is something
[20:25] that is uh, also that has a very strong
[20:28] symbolic value.
[20:30] Uh, while the ground is more like, um,
[20:32] you know,
[20:33] I'm not going to say dirty, but it's,
[20:35] you know, that's that's how that's a
[20:36] little bit how it comes across. Uh, I
[20:38] think that some of the supply chains,
[20:40] for example, needs to solidify.
[20:42] Um, so as I mentioned the scaling part,
[20:44] like the, um, high volume of uh,
[20:47] laser communication terminals in space,
[20:50] this actually creates a lot of pressure
[20:52] on the supply chain, and I think that's
[20:54] one place where there needs to be
[20:56] investment. And it's difficult for, you
[20:58] know, like for investors to actually
[21:00] look at that because it's difficult for
[21:01] them to know, yes, this thing is is a
[21:03] bottleneck.
[21:04] So, you're feeling the the urgency from
[21:06] the customer. It's
[21:08] I'm pretty sure your conversations are
[21:09] technical performance, but now there is
[21:12] industrial readiness and deploying
[21:14] deployment speed as a key challenge. It
[21:17] is so it's interesting. It's like not
[21:18] every customer has urgency.
[21:21] Uh, but the some of like, I mean, some
[21:24] of the customer they all value speed
[21:26] also as a signal of maturity. So,
[21:30] when you come in and say, yes, I can
[21:32] deliver a ground station in 12 months,
[21:34] sorry, in 18 months, in 24 months,
[21:37] in like
[21:38] more, basically what you're saying is I
[21:41] can I can I can sell you a research
[21:43] project. Um, and then maybe I'm going to
[21:46] deliver a ground station at the end. Um,
[21:49] or I'm going to deliver something. I'm
[21:50] not sure that something will be a ground
[21:52] station, and then we'll try to work
[21:53] together to make it work.
[21:55] That's not what the that's not what we
[21:57] provide. We provide something that has
[21:59] already been working, and that's
[22:00] something we can deliver in a shorter
[22:02] time. And the shorter time basically
[22:04] signifies that we we are not looking
[22:06] around. We are not trying to figure out
[22:08] which part to use. We already know what
[22:10] we're going to be using. Some of the
[22:12] some of those things we already have in
[22:13] stock. And so we're able to deliver in a
[22:16] very like deterministic deterministic
[22:18] time with deterministic performance the
[22:21] product. And I think that's something
[22:23] that more and more people are looking
[22:25] for that that type of of of support of
[22:28] of of provider. And this is where we
[22:30] are. Yeah.
[22:31] >> This is obviously obviously not just a
[22:33] telecom story. This has very clear
[22:36] implications on on defense, on
[22:38] sovereignty, on secure data transport.
[22:41] Do you think policy makers and
[22:43] procurement agencies fully understand
[22:45] that optical communications are now
[22:47] becoming infrastructure? The short
[22:49] answer is um,
[22:51] and the long answer is like there's so
[22:53] many parts where optical com comes in
[22:55] and then suddenly it has an indirect
[22:57] impact on some other parts of of the way
[22:59] we regulate things. Um, and so, um,
[23:03] so suddenly for policy makers there's
[23:05] this realization that, oh, oh, we didn't
[23:07] know that. Um, so we are part of those
[23:09] discussions, some of those discussions,
[23:10] especially in in France and Europe.
[23:13] Uh, some a little bit in the US. Um, but
[23:16] it's yeah, it's just we're starting to
[23:18] open that door. One of the example I got
[23:20] for you is, um, spectrum.
[23:22] So, today, uh, one way to kind of
[23:24] regulate satellites is spectrum because
[23:27] you need a license to operate your
[23:29] satellite if if if you if you're using
[23:32] RF basically. I'm going to use RF above
[23:34] this country and then so I need I need
[23:36] some filings. This actually creates a
[23:37] way to regulate satellites.
[23:40] If you have a satellite, like
[23:41] theoretical exercise, if I got a
[23:43] satellite that doesn't use radio at all,
[23:46] I'm just using lasers. Who regulates
[23:48] that satellite? How do you regulate it?
[23:50] Oh, there's no spectrum. There's no ITU,
[23:52] there's no FCC involved. Okay. So, what
[23:55] if what what's what's the next And then
[23:56] so basically, if you look at it, then
[23:58] the regulation becomes in Europe at
[24:00] least is the EU space act that basically
[24:02] says, I want to I need to build my
[24:04] satellites that it doesn't blow up.
[24:05] Obviously, like you know, it's that's
[24:07] kind of important. Um, but then this is
[24:11] like, uh, it's it's
[24:13] if I go to a well-known, uh, platform
[24:16] vendor, you know, then they make
[24:18] satellites that don't blow up. So,
[24:20] basically it means that
[24:22] in theory, this is not regulated. I can
[24:24] launch it without, you know, asking
[24:26] anybody's permission. Of course, I'm
[24:28] I'm, you know, I'm stretching the
[24:29] boundaries. It's a little bit more
[24:30] complicated than that. But that has a
[24:32] massive impact on the, you know,
[24:35] independent access to space, what you
[24:37] can do, like the the friction that you
[24:39] see on spectrum today actually gets away
[24:41] from that. And
[24:43] it it's I mean, it's amazing. Like this
[24:45] is kind of thing that of course it's
[24:47] going to be regulated, but it will
[24:48] create needs for different types of
[24:50] regulations.
[24:51] Um, and that's going to be interesting
[24:53] to see how it evolves in the future.
[24:55] Uh, we are right now in a situation in
[24:57] which talking about Europe and about the
[25:00] EU space act, um, we're in a in a
[25:02] momentum in which we are going to see
[25:04] the the increase on data traffic
[25:07] everywhere, and the demands on latency
[25:09] everywhere multiply and divide by by
[25:12] factors we never never thought before.
[25:15] So, you could advise, and you are doing
[25:17] it. You could advise the EU space act
[25:19] and the entire Europe, what does Europe
[25:22] need to get right if we want to continue
[25:24] remaining credible in the secure optical
[25:26] communication space?
[25:28] I think one of the thing we we need to
[25:31] do
[25:33] is recognize that we already have a very
[25:35] strong industry on this.
[25:37] Um,
[25:37] not feel threatened. So, EU has very
[25:41] strong industry on the equipment.
[25:45] Um,
[25:46] we don't have the concentration of
[25:49] capital that enables us to make
[25:52] uh, constellation,
[25:54] uh, like, you know, a SpaceX-like
[25:56] constellation with tens of thousands of
[25:58] satellites, maybe a million satellites.
[26:00] This is something that
[26:02] we don't have the concentration of the
[26:04] capital in Europe today to to do that.
[26:06] It it's it would require an enormous
[26:09] effort. Um, but on the other hand, we do
[26:12] have very good skills on the supply
[26:14] chain. We we know how to make um, ground
[26:17] stations, we know how to make optical
[26:19] terminals,
[26:20] um, we know how to make satellites,
[26:23] um,
[26:24] and we know how to make those in
[26:25] volumes.
[26:27] This is a strength, and this is
[26:30] something we need to keep. This is
[26:31] something we need to nurture. This is
[26:32] something we need to to support. And in
[26:35] order to support that, basically, um, we
[26:38] we need to be
[26:40] able to say, well, if you've got kind of
[26:42] a
[26:44] you know, like
[26:46] make sure there's no protectionist, um,
[26:49] situation where, you know, Europeans buy
[26:51] the service from the US because service
[26:54] is already there, but the US decide not
[26:57] to buy equipment from Europe. Well,
[26:59] guys, there's a problem. Like, you know,
[27:00] the the the
[27:02] it flows one way. We should it should be
[27:03] able to flow the other way. Um, so
[27:05] that's kind of free trade kind of
[27:07] defending free trade is very important
[27:08] on this.
[27:09] Um,
[27:10] so that's that's one of the element that
[27:11] Europe needs to do can do on this is
[27:14] make sure that if we buy service, then
[27:16] we need to be able to sell equipment.
[27:18] Um, and
[27:21] um, and I think the the other part is
[27:22] like
[27:23] on on the defense side or like on the
[27:26] sovereignty side is like creating their
[27:29] own, um, constellations that not don't
[27:31] need to be as big as capable as, you
[27:34] know, Amazon Leo or as as Starlink, but
[27:36] they need to be sovereign. They need to
[27:38] be, you know, each country it can be
[27:40] each country it can each can it can be
[27:41] at the European level. Like it doesn't
[27:43] matter. It can be all of those and then
[27:45] we combine a little bit. Um,
[27:48] I don't see each country setting out,
[27:49] you know, 10,000 satellites, but, you
[27:52] know, for country giving country to say
[27:53] I'm I'm going to provide a little some
[27:55] level of service to my armed forces and
[27:57] then be able to share that service to
[27:59] other countries in Europe, that why not?
[28:01] You know, that's kind of so that's the
[28:03] strength we've got in Europe. So, I
[28:04] think this is something that we we need
[28:06] to recognize we can do that. We've got
[28:08] the ability to do that, and then we need
[28:10] to be consider we we are a good player
[28:12] in that, um, overall space ecosystem.
[28:15] Yeah, Franz, I'm loving this interview.
[28:17] Last question, if this aircraft-to-GEO
[28:21] milestone marks really the point where
[28:23] optical in the air is no longer
[28:25] experimental, let's play the crystal
[28:27] ball game. What should happen in the
[28:29] next 5 years so we can move from this
[28:31] impressive records to real operational
[28:34] networks?
[28:36] What would you like to happen? What
[28:37] would you like industry to react to
[28:39] this? It's about scale. When we do the
[28:41] trade-off discussions, uh, with
[28:43] architectures,
[28:45] we need to factor in all those new
[28:49] results that are more recent, but that
[28:51] basically I is they're all pointing in
[28:53] the same direction, which is that
[28:54] overall the industry is is not more and
[28:57] more knowledgeable about optical com. It
[28:59] is something that we need to include in
[29:02] all architectures, including to the
[29:04] ground. So, one of the good example is
[29:05] Aris Squared. Aris Squared has optical
[29:08] between satellites, doesn't have optical
[29:09] to the ground, but having optical access
[29:12] is actually possible with the existing
[29:14] terminals because you do multiple orbits
[29:16] and then basically pointing down to the
[29:17] ground when you go from Yeah, anyway.
[29:19] So, it it is possible. And then so
[29:21] basically including that in our
[29:22] thinking, in our collective thinking,
[29:23] and say, yes, this is something we want
[29:25] to see. This is something we want to
[29:26] deploy. For me, that is that is
[29:28] extremely important. Yeah, Franz, I
[29:30] thank you very much. You know what I
[29:31] like about this discussion is that it
[29:34] shifts the debate. The spectacular
[29:36] milestone is the laser link in the sky,
[29:38] but the real industry question happens
[29:41] next. Once those links begin generating
[29:44] continuous high-capacity data flows that
[29:46] need to reach Earth reliably and at
[29:49] scale. And that is where the next
[29:51] competition will be won or lost. [music]
[29:53] I'm Jose Puerto from Optica. Thank you
[29:55] for watching.