# THE PCB COMPANY THAT RANG THE NASDAQ BELL AND IS NOW REWRITING THE RULES OF PHOTONICS INTEGRATION

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdmQYQfSwNg

[00:00] I think in general, you have to be so
[00:02] close to your customers. And not to
[00:03] let's say just listen and and and do
[00:05] what they say. No, you have to come up
[00:08] with solutions. I hate to go to
[00:10] customers let's just with a PowerPoint.
[00:12] I like to go with it let's say with a
[00:13] board with an optical, you know, an
[00:15] optical channel with with all these
[00:17] things and show to the customers what
[00:19] you can do. So, as long as we stay close
[00:22] to these end markets and every end
[00:23] market needs another solution by the
[00:25] way. They it's it's there there is some
[00:27] commonality but every end market
[00:30] requires certain dedicated solutions.
[00:33] That makes it so attractive and that's
[00:34] what what our teams are doing. We have
[00:37] 20,000 people here. We have a lot of
[00:39] engineers, 2,000 engineers. We're
[00:41] growing even more in optical design and
[00:44] optical interconnect. So, we're we're
[00:46] we're we're we're ready for it
[00:49] Jose. And and again, the Optica
[00:51] organization will help us also, you
[00:53] know, it will help us with that with
[00:54] that network. So, I'm so happy to be
[00:56] part of that.
[01:01] >> The printed circuit board is one of the
[01:03] most important objects in modern
[01:05] technology. It's in every device, every
[01:08] server, every defense system. And right
[01:11] now, it's at the center of the biggest
[01:14] technology build out in a generation.
[01:17] In this edition of Masters of Change, we
[01:20] speak with the CEO of one of the world's
[01:23] largest manufacturers of advanced
[01:26] printed circuit boards,
[01:28] Dr. Edwin Rocks, president and CEO of
[01:31] TTM Technologies.
[01:34] Edwin is also a founding member of the
[01:37] Optica executive team of trustees and
[01:40] has spoken twice at the Optica Global
[01:43] Photonics Economic Forum in Malaga.
[01:46] So, he understands the photonics
[01:48] industry from both sides of the table.
[01:51] But where on the planet is he today?
[01:53] >> You know, I'm I'm currently here Santa
[01:55] Ana at our headquarters, and
[01:58] we have some really, really exciting
[02:00] times happening right now, and and you
[02:03] know, the future will be good, and the
[02:04] timing of our interview is really,
[02:06] really, really good. We have There's a
[02:07] lot of excitement going on.
[02:09] >> If this is your vision of a modern
[02:11] printed circuit board, then it's time
[02:13] for a reality check.
[02:15] This example is from the 1980s, which we
[02:17] used in the lab to connect our
[02:19] components, route our signals, and test
[02:22] our ideas.
[02:24] What TTM makes today is something
[02:26] completely different. They produce
[02:28] boards with 80, 100, sometimes 120
[02:32] layers,
[02:33] extremely high density, tiny pitches,
[02:36] power on one side of the board, signal
[02:39] on the other.
[02:40] So, how did the PCB evolve from the
[02:43] board on a lab bench to the most complex
[02:46] manufactured object inside an AI data
[02:49] center?
[02:50] >> Indeed, I have the same background, of
[02:51] course, cuz I I also also grew up with,
[02:53] let's say, the the the four layers on a
[02:55] board, and the six layers on a board.
[02:57] So, it's indeed 120, and and by the way,
[03:01] it's 150 layers we do now. 150 layers.
[03:04] So, it's really, really
[03:07] really becoming very, very difficult.
[03:09] I have a I have a semiconductor
[03:11] background. I'm used to, let's say,
[03:12] five, six layers, yeah? Of course, at a
[03:14] much higher definition, but this is
[03:16] getting to 150 layers, and the
[03:18] interesting thing is that history is
[03:21] repeating itself. You and I grew up with
[03:24] the PAS 5500, you know, steppers. They
[03:27] are now used in the in the PCB industry.
[03:30] They came from the semiconductor
[03:31] industry and now being used in the PCB
[03:33] industry.
[03:34] So, this is a very exciting time.
[03:37] We Although PCB sounds a bit
[03:40] old-fashioned, we use the word, let's
[03:42] say, advanced interconnect, which is
[03:44] really, really helping. Also getting the
[03:47] areas of heterogeneous packaging, where
[03:49] optics plays a very important role, like
[03:51] all the other components. So, that
[03:54] integration aspect, that interconnect
[03:56] aspect, and then on top of that our
[03:58] integration aspect is very very
[03:59] important for TTM.
[04:02] >> I can tell you I agree that 2026 is
[04:04] being beyond my biggest expectations. At
[04:07] Optica, we had the the goal of bringing
[04:09] our members as close as possible to the
[04:12] AI boom.
[04:14] Um back in January, when Alphabet
[04:15] announced up to 185
[04:18] billion dollars in AI data center
[04:20] spending, TTM share price jumped more
[04:23] than 7% in a single day. That is a
[04:26] direct read-through from a hyperscaler
[04:28] capex announcement to a printed circuit
[04:30] board manufacturer.
[04:32] What does that tell us about where TTM
[04:34] sits in the AI infrastructure chain? And
[04:36] is that a connection structural
[04:39] connection, or could it shift as
[04:41] computing architectures change?
[04:44] >> Yeah, so if if you look in the data
[04:46] centers and and networking, which is
[04:48] which is only 1/3 of our business. By
[04:50] the way, it I I think it will be much
[04:52] bigger at the end of this year, but at
[04:55] currently it's one only 1/3 of our
[04:57] business, but a very important 1/3 of
[04:59] our business. So, all these chips used
[05:02] in these data centers, they they don't
[05:04] float, correct? They have they they need
[05:06] to be put on something, and that can be
[05:09] a substrate, it can be a PCB. And to be
[05:11] honest, it doesn't matter. It's it's
[05:12] it's all about material science here,
[05:15] what that exact structure is. But it
[05:18] isn't it is a PCB, they don't float. So,
[05:21] we are part of that of that network. We
[05:24] we call ourselves, let's say, we're the
[05:25] nervous system. So, if you consider the
[05:27] chips the brains, you know, we connect
[05:30] the brains. We are the nervous system.
[05:32] It's it's a nice analogy, yeah? If you
[05:34] look at data centers and all the
[05:35] investments in data centers, 75%
[05:38] is still hardware. Only 25% is software.
[05:42] What means hardware? Hardware means
[05:44] energy and interconnect. So, that's
[05:47] basically and we play of course in the
[05:49] interconnect part of the of the
[05:51] business. So, this is a huge boost for
[05:54] us.
[05:54] This is also the main reason that that
[05:57] you see the the value of TTM as as one
[05:59] of the key players being in the US of
[06:02] course, being in Asia, being in let's
[06:04] say non-China
[06:06] China plus one as we call it, but also
[06:08] being soon in Europe. So, so that's
[06:11] that's very very exciting
[06:14] very exciting.
[06:14] >> Back in January 2026 when Alphabet
[06:17] announced up to 185 billion dollars in
[06:21] AI data center spending,
[06:24] TTM's share price jumped more than 7% in
[06:28] a single day.
[06:29] What does that tell us about where TTM
[06:31] sits in the AI infrastructure chain?
[06:34] >> It is absolutely a very important thing
[06:37] of our road map and and even beyond the
[06:39] road map I would say. We already showed
[06:41] the first PCB with optical interconnect
[06:44] and and we work very close with with
[06:47] other optical players because it is part
[06:49] of our road map it's part of our future.
[06:51] That doesn't mean by the way that copper
[06:53] is disappearing. There is a long tail
[06:55] with copper. There is a long tail and it
[06:58] is might this might last even decades,
[07:00] you know,
[07:01] that that's that happens in
[07:02] technologies, but we are fully prepared
[07:05] on optical
[07:06] devices. We are fully prepared let's say
[07:09] to look at wave guides. You know, my
[07:11] background is optics as well. So, it's
[07:13] it's very close to my heart as well.
[07:16] But beyond that it's it's it's so so
[07:19] important that we treat these optical
[07:22] devices just as any other device. So, I
[07:25] told you about let's say the
[07:27] interconnect part of of TTM which is 75%
[07:30] of our business. 25% of our business is
[07:34] already going up the chain. Where we use
[07:37] our interconnect and made integrated
[07:39] systems. And that can be radar systems,
[07:42] that can be all kind of sensing systems,
[07:44] and that's also where we use a lot of
[07:46] optical elements, let's say, photonics
[07:49] devices.
[07:50] So, that's that's that's a great spot to
[07:52] be.
[07:52] >> Let's look at a very specific challenge.
[07:55] Optica recently visited SABIC in the
[07:58] Netherlands, one of the leading material
[08:01] science companies in the world.
[08:03] And one of the things they stressed was
[08:06] the development of new optical polymer
[08:08] materials specifically designed to
[08:11] withstand reflow soldering. On the
[08:14] standard PCB assembly process, reflow
[08:17] soldering operates at temperatures up to
[08:20] 260 Celsius.
[08:23] Most photonics packaging has simply
[08:25] never been designed to survive that
[08:28] thermal excursion.
[08:30] SABIC is working on that problem from
[08:32] the material side.
[08:34] But how is TTM approaching it from the
[08:36] manufacturing side?
[08:38] >> First of all, that that's the right
[08:39] company to visit. By the way, we know
[08:41] them very well. By the way, Jose, we are
[08:43] we are visiting them in the in the over
[08:45] over the coming weeks again. So, we we
[08:47] already have relations with them. So,
[08:49] that that that's good. But we do also
[08:51] our own material science. It's all about
[08:53] material science, and that is has a lot
[08:55] to do with power, it has a lot to do
[08:57] with with heat sinks, it has a lot to do
[08:59] with interconnect, with with all these
[09:01] type of things, signal integrity. All
[09:04] these things are important. And you hit
[09:06] a really, really important point here.
[09:08] That's reflow soldering. So, of course,
[09:11] we like to be compliant with all these
[09:13] the normal processes in PCB and PCBA.
[09:17] But
[09:18] reflow soldering, yeah, it can be solved
[09:20] in different ways. Yeah, we we can have
[09:22] a different way of, let's say, attaching
[09:24] the optical components. We can find,
[09:26] let's say, ways where we
[09:29] put these components at a later stage.
[09:32] There are different different
[09:33] approaches. By the way, Jose, we we are
[09:35] we are developing some IP on that aspect
[09:38] which we which we can discuss let's say
[09:41] in the in the in the foreseeable future.
[09:43] But there's some very nice IP being
[09:45] developed on how to solve these things.
[09:47] But I can tell you these optical
[09:48] components will be very very very
[09:50] critical for our for our solutions.
[09:53] >> There are several architectures on the
[09:55] table for bringing optics onto boards,
[09:58] direct wave guide integration,
[10:00] co-package optics, interposers, and
[10:03] on-board optics.
[10:05] From TTM's position as the substrate and
[10:08] integration layer, what will dominate
[10:11] over the next 5 years?
[10:13] >> So so it starts it starts I think with
[10:15] with the interconnect and and and yes,
[10:18] data centers and networking is
[10:19] absolutely probably the number one for
[10:22] us right now. But don't underestimate
[10:25] let's say these mission systems. And
[10:26] those can be mission systems in the
[10:28] defense side. It can be mission systems
[10:30] in the medical side. It can be So making
[10:33] compact devices where the PCB is always
[10:36] let's say sort of the outer dimensions.
[10:39] This is not my quote by the way, but I
[10:41] heard somebody saying "Hey, PCBs are the
[10:43] wafers of the future."
[10:45] I'm not sure if that's completely
[10:48] correct, but but again, I get his point.
[10:50] I get his point because in the outer
[10:52] dimensions is always a sort of PCB. So
[10:55] if you make a compact mission system and
[10:59] size, weight, and power is always very
[11:00] important as you as you know, then
[11:03] optics is just a part of that. There
[11:06] needs to be optical interconnect. There
[11:08] needs to be optical sensing. There needs
[11:10] to be all kinds of optical communication
[11:13] in that compact compact configuration.
[11:15] So
[11:16] super super important. Not only for the
[11:19] data centers where we get want to get
[11:21] rid of the cables. We want to get let's
[11:23] say a very very high-speed interconnect
[11:27] and looking at the 3.2 terahertz.
[11:30] All these type of things or terabit,
[11:31] sorry.
[11:32] All these type of things, but uh beyond
[11:35] that, I would say.
[11:36] >> The real challenge is, of course,
[11:37] integration. It always has been, right?
[11:39] I mean, in your case, you're combining
[11:41] CMOS electronics, temperature control,
[11:43] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[11:44] >> and optical stability system into a
[11:46] single autonomous board level device.
[11:49] So, the how does TTM manage that
[11:51] integration challenge? And where does
[11:53] the responsibility sit? With the PCB
[11:56] manufacturer, with the photonics
[11:58] component supplier, or maybe with the
[12:00] end customer?
[12:01] >> We we are always focused on the end
[12:03] customer. Always focused. In the end, we
[12:05] have to provide a solution for the end
[12:06] customer. And that's that's that's
[12:09] that's our real focus. That's why we
[12:10] have we are so tight with our customers,
[12:12] so tight. Also, a road map alignment.
[12:14] But then it comes back to, let's say,
[12:16] what is the IP we have? What is the
[12:18] expertise we have? And there's a lot on
[12:20] interconnect, and a lot on RF systems, a
[12:23] lot on radar systems,
[12:25] a lot of sensing systems. But then there
[12:28] are sort sort of gaps in in our, let's
[12:30] say, in our
[12:32] IP.
[12:33] And we can we can partner, or we can
[12:36] acquire. And we do we do acquisitions.
[12:39] >> Today, TTM is an interconnect and
[12:41] integration advanced technology leader,
[12:43] in addition to being a trusted and
[12:46] highly strategic partner with blue chip
[12:48] customers across some of the most
[12:50] important industries in the world.
[12:52] Our most recent quarter was a record for
[12:55] TTM. Revenues grew 30% year-on-year,
[12:58] driven mainly by a combination of strong
[13:00] demand across a healthy balance between
[13:03] our AI infrastructure and our
[13:05] networking, aerospace and defense, and
[13:08] medical, industrial instrumentation
[13:09] customers.
[13:10] >> TTM's strategic direction will be a move
[13:13] towards integrated modules, combining
[13:16] chips, RF components, sensors, and
[13:19] photonics into complete subsystems.
[13:22] How far along is TTM on that transition
[13:25] today?
[13:26] And what does completing it require in
[13:28] capability, partnerships, or
[13:31] acquisitions?
[13:32] >> Jose, here here it's so so important
[13:34] that we think about the end game. You
[13:36] know, where TTM is now, where TTM will
[13:39] be in 3 years from now, where TTM will
[13:41] be in 7 years from now, in 10 years from
[13:42] now. It is so important that we go up
[13:47] the chain and make these modules
[13:49] continue to make these which now only
[13:51] 25% of the business, it will become a
[13:53] much bigger part of the business.
[13:55] Because again, everything will be more
[13:57] compact.
[13:58] We are we are pretty good in sensing. We
[14:01] are pretty good, let's say, in making
[14:02] the analog world make it get it into
[14:05] bits and whatever we need for that.
[14:07] These can be optical components, these
[14:09] can be radar components, RF components,
[14:11] all kinds of components. So, we love
[14:13] that. So, it will be it's part of our
[14:16] road map. It will be very important. At
[14:18] the same time, we will continue to work
[14:20] on very efficient interconnect solutions
[14:23] as well. So, interconnect and
[14:25] integration are basically the two axes
[14:27] we our strategy is built on. So, that's
[14:30] that's basically what we do.
[14:31] >> Hey Wim, we we know each other for for a
[14:34] couple of years. You are a founding
[14:35] member of the Optica executive team of
[14:38] trustees.
[14:39] And actually, I must say that that is an
[14:41] unusual place for the CEO of a PCB
[14:43] manufacturer to sit. So, what brought
[14:46] you to that role and what do you think
[14:48] the photonics community does not yet
[14:50] fully understand about the PCB
[14:51] manufacturers and their need from them
[14:54] to integrate at scale?
[14:56] >> By the way, I'm so proud to be part of
[14:58] to be involved, let's say, with Optica.
[15:00] I'm so proud to be part of that and to
[15:03] help there. Then I think it should be at
[15:05] CEO level. By the way, all these
[15:07] technology companies, yeah, their CEOs
[15:10] are technical people. I'm an engineer,
[15:11] okay? So, and it's all the engineering
[15:14] is always is always the solution.
[15:16] >> TTM is a global company, of course.
[15:18] >> Yeah.
[15:19] >> TTM has a very is presence in Europe.
[15:21] And Europe has real strengths in
[15:22] photonic,
[15:24] particularly in defense, industrial
[15:25] sensing,
[15:27] in optical communications. At the same
[15:29] time, European NATO members are under
[15:31] real pressure to build more domestic
[15:33] defense electronics capacity.
[15:35] So, my question to you is Europe a
[15:37] strategic growth priority for TTM under
[15:39] under your leadership?
[15:41] And where does photonic integration fit
[15:43] into that specifically?
[15:45] >> Yeah, absolutely. Europe Europe is is is
[15:47] is will be key for us. Of course, we
[15:49] have we have about 25 sites globally
[15:52] right now. We have 18 sites in North
[15:54] America, which is which is very
[15:56] important. We have we have about four
[15:58] sites in in China, one in in in Penang
[16:01] in Malaysia.
[16:03] And then the rest will be will be in in
[16:05] Europe. Europe will be very very
[16:07] important. So, we're looking at
[16:09] acquisitions right now because that's
[16:11] the best way to to move forward in in
[16:13] Europe. And we're looking at at at in
[16:15] the in two directions. One, let's say
[16:18] interconnect companies, and those can be
[16:20] let's say PCB companies, can also be
[16:22] other companies. And the other angle is
[16:24] let's say everything
[16:26] up the chain, let's say modules,
[16:28] subsystems, systems. And it can be in
[16:31] the defense, it can be on the defense
[16:32] side, but it can also be on the on the
[16:34] medical side. And we love long cycle
[16:37] businesses where entry barriers are
[16:39] high. So, we're looking at all of that
[16:42] Jose. And then I'm I'm I'm so happy that
[16:44] we have some very very good discussions
[16:47] happening right now,
[16:49] which I'm You will be the first to hear
[16:51] when the when we have something when we
[16:53] close something there.
[16:58] >> [music]