# The 12 Bloodlines of Human Nature (corruption points, wiring, & destinies)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hVYLpAPe_40

[00:00] Our first enemy that we have to deal
[00:01] with is not the devil and it's not some
[00:04] demon and it's not culture. Our first
[00:07] enemy is ourselves. It comes in before
[00:10] we were born from our bloodline from our
[00:12] parents. What degree did the apostle
[00:15] Peter have following the god of the
[00:17] universe around for a while. Not a
[00:19] degree, right? This is the main shadow
[00:21] of the judge. They begin to judge things
[00:23] correctly, but because they have catered
[00:26] to the idolatry of their own intellect,
[00:30] they're now gathering a tribe of people
[00:31] who are united only by the things that
[00:33] they hate. The Levites are the ones who
[00:35] side with Moses and then kill 3,000 of
[00:36] the Israelites. So, they're the ones
[00:38] that come in and they're like, "You're
[00:39] wrong and you're dead." You have a
[00:41] pastor who was saying that there's one
[00:42] thing that I will not tolerate. I will
[00:44] fire them immediately. And it's
[00:45] disloyalty. Who does this sound like?
[00:47] King Saul, who was a Benjamite. You're
[00:49] having a rough day and finances are
[00:51] tight. and somebody comes up to you and
[00:52] said, "The Lord said that you're
[00:54] supposed to give me $1,000." We would
[00:56] just straight up be like, "You're a
[00:57] false prophet." Most of us judge whether
[00:59] someone's a prophet by whether we like
[01:01] what they say or not. The tribe of
[01:02] Judas, they tend to lead conquest all
[01:04] the time. They're built for it. So, they
[01:06] have a fear, the shadow of
[01:07] insignificance. The most offended people
[01:10] who are offended by other people being
[01:12] apostles or prophets is because they
[01:14] went through all the work to get their
[01:16] credentials as this or that or the
[01:17] other, but God never credentialized
[01:19] them. The enemy knows what your
[01:20] predispositions are and he's probably
[01:22] going to throw things right at you to
[01:23] try to trigger your own weaknesses.
[01:25] Knowing that you will probably blame the
[01:27] devil for your own screw-ups.
[01:31] Everyone wants to get to the high
[01:32] places, but if you want to go high, you
[01:34] first have to go deep.
[01:35] >> What's up? Welcome back to deep pants.
[01:37] What's up, dude? Are you okay? Are you
[01:39] in like a new drug today?
[01:40] >> Dude, I got the craziest supplement
[01:43] stack of my life. You look like it.
[01:45] Honestly,
[01:47] >> I feel like I'm flying.
[01:50] >> Are
[01:50] >> But pretty much all day I've I've been
[01:52] feeling that way.
[01:53] >> Uh a full stack. So I like ran it
[01:57] through one of my doctors and there's
[01:59] this Eboo treatment that I've been
[02:01] doing. Have you heard about that?
[02:02] >> Mhm.
[02:04] >> Did I show you how much stuff they
[02:06] pulled out of my blood?
[02:07] >> No.
[02:08] It's a canister like this big of
[02:12] >> just metals, mold, uh, plastic.
[02:16] >> Was that unusual compared to the normal
[02:17] person?
[02:18] >> Nope.
[02:18] >> That's normal.
[02:19] >> Pretty much what they pull out of
[02:20] people.
[02:22] And so my blood is like so oxygenated.
[02:25] It's crazy. And then I'm taking some u
[02:29] some stuff for like
[02:31] dopamine
[02:32] uh glutathione but precursors like
[02:36] glutathione precursors which makes your
[02:38] body and your mind produce more of the
[02:40] thing that's naturally good for you.
[02:42] >> Okay,
[02:42] >> which is different than taking like just
[02:44] downstream. You can take glutathione but
[02:47] I'm taking some supplementation to make
[02:49] my body create more glutathione which is
[02:51] more natural so it it's going to absorb
[02:52] more of it.
[02:54] >> Okay. Epic, dude.
[02:56] >> It sounds really cool.
[02:57] >> Epic. And it's the afternoon and I have
[03:00] I'm just lit, bro.
[03:01] >> I can tell. I love it.
[03:03] >> I'm lit. And I'm so over
[03:06] people's opinions.
[03:08] >> Before you go into the opinions, do you
[03:10] want to just give like a heads up where
[03:12] we're going? If there's something you
[03:13] want to hit real quick.
[03:14] >> Yeah. So, this is what I think the
[03:16] mission of today's show is. Okay.
[03:18] >> You like how I did that? I'm fitting
[03:19] into your frame.
[03:20] >> Wow.
[03:20] >> Are you proud of me?
[03:21] >> Very. Thank you.
[03:24] Jake wants me to put everything together
[03:25] perfectly just in the perfect story from
[03:29] the very beginning.
[03:30] >> Okay, that's what I'm that's what I'm
[03:31] trying to
[03:32] >> if that's how you would like to
[03:33] interpret it. Sure, we'll call it that.
[03:35] >> Our first enemy that we have to deal
[03:36] with is not the devil and it's not some
[03:41] demon and it's not culture. Our first
[03:46] enemy is ourselves
[03:50] and it comes in when we are it comes in
[03:53] before we were born. It's it comes from
[03:56] our bloodline. It comes from our
[03:57] parents. It comes from uh the
[04:01] generational line that we're inserted
[04:02] into. And so my my mission for today's
[04:07] episode is that we would understand
[04:11] if we are going to fall
[04:14] not because the devil's tempting us. We
[04:16] got to stop blaming the devil for
[04:17] everything. But if we're going to fall
[04:18] because of our own flesh, where are our
[04:21] predispositions
[04:23] and our inherent weaknesses
[04:26] that we need to watch out for? M cuz if
[04:28] you're going to fall, it's going to be
[04:30] because of the type of person that you
[04:31] are and the things that you are drawn to
[04:35] and the things that you are afraid of.
[04:37] So, we're going to go through some
[04:38] really cool like almost psychoanalysis
[04:41] of the different archetypical
[04:46] personality type giftings and bloodlines
[04:48] that God's still using to this day.
[04:51] >> That's sick. And I think that this is
[04:54] the the oversight actually for the types
[04:57] of the five offices. You know, like the
[05:00] people in church are obsessed with these
[05:01] like what are you a prophet or pastor?
[05:03] Cuz you can't have a conversation unless
[05:05] you know somebody's office.
[05:07] >> It's impossible
[05:09] today.
[05:10] >> You can't talk to a pastor if they're an
[05:11] apostle. It doesn't work. You'll make
[05:13] yourself irrelevant. But anyways,
[05:15] they're so obsessed. But Paul was giving
[05:16] us B basically like here's an org chart,
[05:20] but I have I have you know all these
[05:22] different staff and it's not just the
[05:24] org chart that matters. It's also like
[05:25] what's the skill set that I'm hiring
[05:27] for? What's the experience that I need
[05:29] in this role? What's the energy profile
[05:31] for this person? psychometrics. If you
[05:33] look at predictive index or culture
[05:36] index or MyersBriggs, it's like there's
[05:39] a there's a formative pattern with this
[05:42] person that makes them better at certain
[05:45] things and makes other things harder.
[05:49] >> Which is why like I profiled even you a
[05:52] while ago not to see what you were good
[05:54] or bad at. I know what you're good at. I
[05:56] know what you're bad at. But what are
[05:58] you good at that is so hard for you that
[05:59] you don't like it and you shouldn't be
[06:01] doing it?
[06:02] >> It's an energy profiling. So, it's
[06:04] almost like there's a psychrometric
[06:07] viewpoint I want to give people from
[06:11] scripture that I think is really cool
[06:14] and it will help you if you find
[06:17] yourself relating with one or two or
[06:18] three. It'll show you. The enemy knows
[06:21] what your predispositions are and he's
[06:24] probably going to throw things right at
[06:25] you to try to trigger your own
[06:26] weaknesses knowing that you will
[06:29] probably blame the devil for your own
[06:30] screw-ups and then he's like off the
[06:33] hook.
[06:35] Do you know what's crazy about what you
[06:36] just said?
[06:38] >> You're making me realize something I
[06:40] have never ever considered. It seems
[06:43] like, at least in my experience of life
[06:45] so far, that the only one of the
[06:48] five-fold that you can truly know how to
[06:50] train for is the pastor. And the pastor
[06:53] is responsible for training the
[06:55] apostles, the prophets, the evangelists.
[06:58] He's in charge of all of them. But it
[07:01] doesn't look like that was anywhere in
[07:02] the New Testament. And I just had this
[07:05] feeling. I was like,
[07:07] I'm not trying to put you on a pedestal
[07:09] cuz I know how much you don't like that.
[07:11] But I'm like, is God having to tell
[07:13] Taylor Welch some of this stuff so
[07:16] people can learn what to do to almost in
[07:18] a way self-regulate and inform the
[07:21] people who are in power? Because is God
[07:24] having to tell Taylor Welch that?
[07:26] Because we don't actually know how to
[07:28] train those offices if it's not a pastor
[07:31] who's in charge of a church who we don't
[07:32] even know how they're certified.
[07:36] Like what do they know? What makes them
[07:37] even qualified to be a pastor? But
[07:40] because they have the term passer,
[07:41] suddenly they're the expert on training
[07:43] you in everything and they're the
[07:45] arbiter of everything.
[07:47] I've never considered that.
[07:50] Yeah, that's such a disservice even to
[07:52] the pastor to put them into a position
[07:54] where we're like, of course, you're the
[07:56] expert on everything and it's like
[07:58] they're just a pastor, but you don't
[08:01] know what type of pastor they are. What
[08:03] does a pastor do
[08:06] >> based on like Bible stuff or based on
[08:09] >> Yeah,
[08:09] >> it seems like the point of the pastor is
[08:11] supposed to be the one that provides the
[08:14] like the care essentially, the the one
[08:17] who does the counseling, the one that uh
[08:20] takes care of the flock. like uh a
[08:23] friend of ours uh was saying like Aaron
[08:26] Sanders, he was like, "Man, it's so
[08:28] funny that the 11 tribes like the one
[08:30] person in the one tribe is doing the
[08:31] work of all 11 tribes." And so we give
[08:33] the term pastor, but the pastor is so
[08:35] busy doing all the things that the 11
[08:38] tribes should be doing that they don't
[08:39] get to do what they're supposed to do.
[08:41] The pastor is supposed to be the one
[08:42] that takes care of people. That's not
[08:44] supposed to be the thing they barely
[08:45] have time for. And it's either that or
[08:47] time with their family.
[08:49] >> Yeah, that's Wow. You have different
[08:51] types of you have but you have different
[08:54] types of pastors. So they shouldn't all
[08:55] be doing the same thing.
[08:56] >> Yeah.
[08:57] >> So like you can have two vocational
[08:58] offices that are going to do it totally
[09:01] different.
[09:03] And if they try to do it the same way,
[09:05] one's going to fall because it's a
[09:08] different archetype.
[09:10] >> And so if you have a pastor who is like
[09:12] you can almost you can almost look at
[09:14] what the fall line is. Like if if a
[09:16] pastor is going to fall, they're going
[09:19] to fall maybe for like 10 different
[09:20] reasons, but that's going to come from
[09:22] like the types of things they're already
[09:25] susceptible to. You got a pastor who
[09:27] falls due to sexual immorality. Judah.
[09:30] >> What do you mean when you say Judah?
[09:31] What are you referring to?
[09:32] >> That's his archetype. You You abused
[09:35] power to take something and you consumed
[09:38] what wasn't yours.
[09:40] Well, we can sort of see that because we
[09:42] can see how the house of Judah fell into
[09:46] that.
[09:47] >> You have a pastor who, you know, I I
[09:49] watched this Instagram video a couple of
[09:52] weeks ago and I just thought this guy
[09:54] was like completely full of hot air.
[09:56] Like so stupid. And it's unfortunate
[09:59] that he's a pastor at all. It's
[10:01] unfortunate that this person even has
[10:02] staff that report to him because they're
[10:05] all going to go through therapy to fix
[10:07] what he is gonna inevitably do to them.
[10:09] >> What was he saying?
[10:10] >> He was saying that there's one thing
[10:12] that I will not tolerate. I will fire
[10:13] them immediately and it's disloyalty
[10:17] >> for real.
[10:18] >> That's exactly what he said.
[10:19] >> Like seriously?
[10:20] >> Seriously.
[10:20] >> When he says
[10:21] >> it was some big conference Benjamin.
[10:23] That's Benjamin. That's the thing of
[10:25] Benjamin Benjamin. You will eat your own
[10:27] house. you'll you'll literally start
[10:29] destroying your own house because who
[10:30] does this sound like? King Saul
[10:33] who was a Benjamite.
[10:36] So there's that's what we're going to go
[10:37] into is these there are archetypes that
[10:39] kind of determine
[10:41] and it's not it's not like thus sayaith
[10:44] scripture. It is more like a psychoan
[10:46] it's like the deep end. It's like how we
[10:48] do things. So there are going to be
[10:49] people who watch this and they're like
[10:50] man I'm just not getting that inference
[10:53] from the Bible. And it's like well
[10:55] there's two options here. First, maybe
[10:56] you don't read the Bible, but let's say
[10:57] that you do. The second might be because
[11:00] we're sort of psychoanalyzing the
[11:02] different tribes and we're
[11:03] psychoanalyzing the I think 12
[11:05] represents government and governmental
[11:07] systems. 12 represents the number 12
[11:09] represents order at a governmental
[11:12] level. This is a fully encompassing
[11:14] system that can run a country or that
[11:16] can run an an empire or that can run a
[11:18] kingdom. So if there are 12 tribes, what
[11:22] we sort of can infer from that is this
[11:24] is an oversight governmental structure
[11:26] that you can still use to run a kingdom,
[11:29] the kingdom of heaven.
[11:31] >> Okay. So basically the five-fold if it
[11:34] was inside of a business, it would
[11:35] create the perfect business
[11:38] as long as you have representation
[11:40] amongst the different archetypes.
[11:42] >> Okay?
[11:43] >> If not, they're all going to it's just
[11:45] like a team. Like it's let's say you
[11:46] have a position that's CEO, CMO, CRO,
[11:50] COO,
[11:52] CTO. Okay.
[11:53] >> Can you explain what those are? I don't
[11:55] even know what all of those are.
[11:56] >> Chief executive oper officer, chief
[11:58] revenue officer, chief marketing
[12:00] officer, chief operating officer.
[12:02] >> What's that person in charge of
[12:03] operating?
[12:04] >> COO, all the operations and usually
[12:06] people.
[12:06] >> Okay.
[12:07] >> And then chief technology officer.
[12:11] >> What does that person do?
[12:13] every like
[12:14] >> like they just take care of all the
[12:16] tech.
[12:16] >> Yeah.
[12:18] >> You know, the the real estate company
[12:19] that I worked with back in the day when
[12:22] I was learning how to, you know, how to
[12:23] count and stuff in 2014,
[12:26] we had a CTO because Salesforce was a
[12:29] little bit newer and coming up, HubSpot
[12:31] was brand new. All these technologies
[12:33] that are pretty easy easier to use now,
[12:36] you had to have a programmer to run
[12:37] them. And so a CTO is the one who's
[12:39] responsible for like it
[12:42] do data security. So if you have a big
[12:44] company, data security is kind of a big
[12:46] deal at this point. Like you get sued
[12:47] for data data breaches and you you'll
[12:50] lose for some of that. So a CTO, but you
[12:53] have these five positions. But what if
[12:55] they all have the same MyersBriggs and
[12:57] the same personality?
[12:59] >> Nothing's going to get done probably. U
[13:02] they're just all going to sit and agree
[13:04] on everything and you're going to have
[13:06] no one's going to have your six. No one
[13:07] can have your six. No one can have your
[13:09] back because you're all looking at the
[13:10] same things and you all have blind spots
[13:12] on the same things.
[13:13] >> So, you want to have diversity in in
[13:16] whatever you're building that is that
[13:17] needs to survive pressure and survive
[13:20] the changing of seasons and times.
[13:22] You've got to have representation on
[13:24] different viewpoints, different energy
[13:26] profiles, everything that I don't like
[13:28] to do,
[13:31] which is a lot.
[13:33] There are other people that love it.
[13:36] They wake up in the morning, they think
[13:37] about it, they're like, I can't wait to
[13:39] do this. And I'm like, I would rather
[13:41] suffer than do that. And so my
[13:44] responsibility is to give those people
[13:47] opportunity to do what they love to do
[13:48] and I stay in my lane to do what I love
[13:50] to do. It's not 100%. I still have to do
[13:52] things I don't like. But you want to you
[13:54] want to scatter your teams around so
[13:57] that there's proper
[13:59] diversity amongst viewpoints. Dude,
[14:03] this is making so much sense. You have
[14:05] no idea right now
[14:06] >> really.
[14:06] >> Yeah. Because like so I think for like I
[14:10] want to I want to point the ball back to
[14:12] you in a second but like in my
[14:13] experience of life what I always saw
[14:15] growing up was like if you are not like
[14:17] the evangelist
[14:19] you are like out of place like you're
[14:22] you're like a lukewarm Christian and you
[14:25] don't really serve a function to the
[14:26] body of Christ because you don't love
[14:27] love Jesus enough to make people
[14:28] uncomfortable.
[14:30] >> Yeah. which you know like you should
[14:33] uncomfortable but that doesn't mean that
[14:35] every person you encounter you have to
[14:37] like you know give them the conversion
[14:39] like what I'm realizing what with what
[14:42] you're saying is that essentially if we
[14:45] took the same model that we have in
[14:46] churches and brought it into businesses
[14:48] we'd have only sales people and no
[14:50] marketing people.
[14:52] >> Yeah.
[14:52] >> And we'd be like everybody be the sales
[14:54] guy but nobody be the marketing guy. And
[14:57] so like the someone even functions in
[14:58] the role of almost an evangelist as a uh
[15:01] like a salesperson
[15:03] or a marketing person. So how does that
[15:06] fit into like that gives me almost a new
[15:09] perspective on how the five-fold works?
[15:12] Like do you see it as like a bit of like
[15:15] is there like isn't the apostles the one
[15:17] that's supposed to be kind of like
[15:18] almost like the oversight for some of
[15:20] it? Like how do you see each piece of
[15:23] those going together?
[15:25] >> Yeah. not necessarily oversight but
[15:27] their function. So think about think
[15:29] about um the five offices more as like
[15:33] what responsibility is God trusting with
[15:35] your
[15:37] office. So just try to contain
[15:41] an apostle
[15:43] to just what they what their
[15:45] responsibilities will likely look at.
[15:47] And usually it's ordering
[15:49] ordering and assembling
[15:51] >> like a CEO
[15:53] >> kind of like that. And that doesn't mean
[15:55] that they're like always at the top of
[15:57] the totem pole.
[15:59] >> Sometimes
[15:59] >> like when they're not
[16:01] >> an adviser.
[16:03] So like a a consultant, you know, when
[16:06] when people when people hire me as a as
[16:10] a consultant or like I we they want me
[16:12] to work with their teams oneonone or
[16:14] whatever the profile like the market and
[16:16] whatever. I'm not in charge of
[16:17] everything, but it's pretty apostolic
[16:21] because we got to order everything the
[16:24] right way. Like usually apostolic
[16:26] offices require some sort of just
[16:29] ordering of capital, people,
[16:32] initiatives.
[16:34] So it's not a hierarchy. It's more of
[16:35] like what what's the responsibility?
[16:38] What's the responsibility of the
[16:40] evangelist? Well, that's like the growth
[16:41] hormone of of the body of Christ. This
[16:45] the growth hormone. Like you've got to
[16:47] you've got to expand. there's there's
[16:50] musculature that you c we can't support
[16:52] unless there's growth inside of the
[16:54] organization. So you've got like almost
[16:57] you know those people are typically more
[16:59] more interested because of they have to
[17:02] be they're more their responsibility is
[17:05] typically like adding to the body
[17:08] >> but you can have an extroverted
[17:09] evangelist and you can have an
[17:11] introverted evangelist.
[17:14] You could have a personality, an evang
[17:16] Okay, so John G. Lake was an evangelist.
[17:19] >> Who's that?
[17:20] >> Evangelist.
[17:21] >> Oh, literally. Okay.
[17:23] >> Billy Graham.
[17:24] >> Yeah. Yep.
[17:25] >> But these personalities are wildly
[17:27] different.
[17:28] They're both evangelists, but one is
[17:30] like almost like a combat veteran,
[17:33] revivalist.
[17:34] Uh like um
[17:37] dude, uh
[17:40] I hate to use people's names. We already
[17:42] use Aaron Sanders.
[17:44] I'm not going to say his name, but one
[17:46] of our friends one of our friends is a
[17:47] revivalist.
[17:48] >> Okay.
[17:49] >> And dude, he's got like a combat. He's
[17:51] >> He's always getting in trouble because
[17:52] >> Yeah.
[17:54] he's just saying exactly what is true
[17:56] and no not really like politically
[18:00] correct. It's just like this is what is
[18:02] true. Then you have Billy Graham who's
[18:04] who's way different. And Billy Graham's
[18:07] personality is less combative. It's it's
[18:10] more existential. It's kind of like this
[18:14] bigger picture thing.
[18:17] It's he's not directly going after you
[18:20] for different things.
[18:21] >> Does that make sense?
[18:22] >> Mhm.
[18:23] >> Um
[18:24] and he's he's he was obsessed with just
[18:26] salvation, salvation, salvation,
[18:28] salvation. So these are two evangelists.
[18:31] They have the same responsibility, but
[18:32] the way they do them is totally
[18:33] different.
[18:34] >> One's got more of like a like dude John
[18:38] G. Lake. It's like very Benjamiteish
[18:41] like this is just slap slap you say
[18:46] crazy stuff and then leave and Billy
[18:49] Graham is more like you know Judahish
[18:52] well that's we have to get into them to
[18:55] people are like what does that mean what
[18:56] is Judah we'll talk about it um but
[18:59] that's the goal for today is to organize
[19:01] it up people make a big mistake I think
[19:03] when they overobsess on the office and
[19:07] they don't understand into the
[19:08] archetype. They don't understand which
[19:10] archetypes kind of tend to suck in grace
[19:13] gifts, you know, where there's this
[19:14] obsession with grace gifts, which comes
[19:16] from Paul in the New Testament. Um, and
[19:19] then there's like manifestation gifts,
[19:21] which are a little bit different.
[19:23] And they all swirl around the archetype
[19:28] and the office. Like to have a certain
[19:30] responsibility requires a certain set of
[19:33] giftings. But the way those giftings run
[19:35] through you and the way that they're
[19:36] interpreted from the world around you is
[19:38] going to probably come from just the the
[19:41] the archetype, the bloodline, the type
[19:44] of person that God made you to be.
[19:46] >> Mhm. So what about the the teacher, the
[19:51] pastor? How do those people fit inside
[19:54] of like even like the business world?
[19:57] Yeah, they're just jobs. Um they're just
[20:00] responsibilities, right?
[20:02] >> So pastor usually is going to be more
[20:05] shephering. They're going to be more,
[20:08] you know, interested in making sure
[20:10] people are taken care of.
[20:13] >> That's why I'm like, I'm not a pastor.
[20:14] People are like, "Pastor Taylor." I'm
[20:16] like, "It's funny,
[20:17] >> but it's not true. It's
[20:19] >> Are they trying to say You think they're
[20:21] trying to say teacher or Apostle Taylor?
[20:23] Maybe in a certain way.
[20:24] >> Maybe. But probably for this for deep
[20:28] end, I'm probably more
[20:32] teacherish.
[20:34] But I'm not a pastor because honestly, d
[20:36] I really I don't really I don't really
[20:38] care about shephering you unless you
[20:41] work for me. But you're red but it seems
[20:43] like you're is your goal to redefine it
[20:45] because people are defining it the wrong
[20:46] way? Sort of. But I think people think
[20:48] that pastors just means you talk about
[20:49] God. It's like, right. Yeah. I think
[20:51] >> that's not all there is to it. Yeah.
[20:54] >> You're you are very pastoral. You're way
[20:56] more pastoral than I am.
[20:57] >> You'll sit and you'll listen to somebody
[20:59] just talk
[21:00] >> and you'll try to really make sure that
[21:03] they get what they need.
[21:04] >> And um I don't want to indict myself. I
[21:09] don't want people to think like
[21:11] >> you don't hate people, right? I don't
[21:12] hate people. No, I just don't have I
[21:14] just don't really have time for them. So
[21:18] unless you know you're at an event and
[21:20] it's like God's given me an assignment
[21:22] specifically for something, you see me,
[21:25] I will slow down. I'm in. I'm not going
[21:27] to leave.
[21:28] >> Y
[21:28] >> uh but it's not my personality. It's not
[21:30] my archetype. It's not and it's not the
[21:32] responsibility that really God's given
[21:33] me in my life macro
[21:35] >> because I don't it doesn't matter to me.
[21:38] I got in trouble because you I think you
[21:40] put a short online. Dude, you're the
[21:42] king of shorts. So, I just wanted to
[21:43] tell you that you are the the king of
[21:48] taking something, giving just enough
[21:49] context
[21:51] so that it slaps hard, but not enough
[21:53] context so people don't get offended and
[21:55] then just dropping it on the internet.
[21:58] And it's incredible. We're in the middle
[22:00] of that right now. It's a giant swirl,
[22:01] dude, cuz there's not enough context.
[22:03] But I think I said something to the
[22:05] effect, maybe this wasn't a short, it
[22:06] was YouTube, of like, I don't care if
[22:09] you go to heaven or hell. Do you
[22:11] remember this? Mhm.
[22:15] Yeah. It was It was recent.
[22:17] And yeah, people want me to check my
[22:19] heart on it.
[22:21] And so I did and I still don't care.
[22:26] It's not my role right now. When you say
[22:29] you don't care, what do you what do you
[22:30] mean by like
[22:31] >> I have nothing to gain and nothing to
[22:33] lose by somebody deciding that Jesus is
[22:36] who Jesus is.
[22:38] If somebody wants to be if somebody
[22:42] wants to like go fact check it, I
[22:44] encourage them to fact check it. I will
[22:46] not offer them any like data to try to
[22:49] con scare them or convince them that
[22:51] hell is a real place. I don't have any I
[22:54] sleep like a baby at night whether you
[22:56] decide that Jesus is for you or whether
[22:58] you decide that Jesus is not. And I
[23:00] still want to hang out with you if you
[23:01] don't decide that Jesus is not for you.
[23:03] And I'll probably at some point stop
[23:04] bringing it up if you're not open to it.
[23:06] I don't I don't have this obsessive
[23:08] compulsive desire to just like get as
[23:11] many people into the to the body of
[23:13] Christ as possible. That doesn't mean
[23:15] that I don't want people to go to heaven
[23:17] or want people to know Jesus. It's the
[23:19] secret to everything. Like your your
[23:21] your life is not not complete until you
[23:24] have this part. But that combative edge
[23:28] of like it doesn't matter to me, it
[23:31] matters to you. It's your destiny that
[23:34] you're bartering with, not mine. Thank
[23:36] God for that because if it was mine, I
[23:38] would take care of business. But if you
[23:40] don't want to take care of business and
[23:41] you want to land in a place that is the
[23:45] seed of terror, then you can choose to
[23:48] do that. There is the way that ch that
[23:50] leads to life and a way that leads to
[23:53] death.
[23:54] And I feel bad for your family if you
[23:56] choose death.
[23:58] But that is your choice because you are
[24:00] the head of your house. That's what I
[24:02] mean. That's that's more like that's my
[24:05] function right now.
[24:08] An evangelist or pastor probably would
[24:10] be a little bit less likely to say that
[24:14] unless they have the archetype.
[24:16] Yeah.
[24:19] Yeah. I guess you didn't really see you
[24:20] didn't see Jesus chasing down the rich
[24:23] young ruler afterwards.
[24:26] No. No one ever talked about him again.
[24:28] The dude became a zero. nothing. That
[24:32] was his legacy. His legacy is like, "Oh,
[24:35] better not be that guy." And it served
[24:37] his purpose. So some people that watch
[24:39] this, maybe, dude, maybe your destiny is
[24:42] to serve as a warning for every
[24:45] generation that comes after you that if
[24:47] they can just avoid being you, they'll
[24:50] make it.
[24:51] >> Why would I interfere with that?
[24:54] It's going to be used.
[24:57] >> I wouldn't want to be that person. But
[25:00] if you choose to to bear that burden,
[25:03] then go for it.
[25:06] Okay. I mean, there is literally
[25:08] something going on right now where they
[25:10] have there's a Only Fans model that's
[25:12] blown up and they're calling her the uh
[25:14] the epitome of of feminism. Have you
[25:16] seen this?
[25:17] >> No.
[25:18] >> Like she's slept with a thousand guys in
[25:20] one day.
[25:21] >> And she's like proud of it and like
[25:23] totally good. And people are like
[25:25] they're pumped about it cuz they're like
[25:26] you took feminism to its farthest extent
[25:30] and you're showing like what it really
[25:33] means to be a feminist. Like they're
[25:35] people are like man you're like actually
[25:36] doing a good job of like showing what
[25:38] this is and she's proud of it and it's
[25:40] interesting like they're not I don't
[25:42] think people are as upset about it.
[25:43] They're just kind of like wow you
[25:44] actually kind of get to see like what is
[25:46] the what's the fruit of it? What does it
[25:48] lead to? And it's leading to some really
[25:50] interesting conversations online of like
[25:52] do you follow Jesus or do you follow
[25:53] hedonism? Cuz like to its farthest
[25:55] extent like what does it really look
[25:57] like to go after that? So I've never
[26:00] considered that from that viewpoint. Um
[26:04] this is start bro making her way
[26:08] into the US. I'm personally really
[26:10] curious and I know it's messy. I'm I
[26:12] know it's a really messy question, but
[26:15] when I look at the church today, and at
[26:17] least my experience of it, like just
[26:20] personally, like what I have seen is
[26:21] that if you're a pastor, it's really
[26:24] easy to call yourself a pastor, be a
[26:25] self-appointed pastor, and no one's
[26:27] really going to question you, say
[26:28] nothing, and everyone's going to respect
[26:30] you and be like, "Wow, he must be like a
[26:32] good dude." Or like based on church her
[26:34] stuff, they might be like, "No, like
[26:36] maybe maybe not. Who knows?" But then
[26:38] when it comes to or I guess pastor and
[26:40] teacher both. But when someone says,
[26:42] "Hey, I'm a prophet. Hey, I'm an
[26:43] apostle. I'm uh like if it's one of
[26:46] those two offices, people get really
[26:48] like in my experience like very just
[26:51] like freaked out. They're like, "What's
[26:52] your qualification?"
[26:54] But it's like we kind of avoid the
[26:56] prophetic and we don't respect the
[26:57] apostolic. At least in my experience. I
[27:00] know I my experience is mine, but I'm
[27:04] curious like what you see at a societal
[27:07] level has gotten out of place in terms
[27:10] of like how do you determine if someone
[27:12] really is an apostle or really is a
[27:14] prophet? Like did they or even really is
[27:16] a pastor, really is a teacher, really is
[27:17] an evangelist, like all those things.
[27:20] I'm just curious on even we can just
[27:21] call it your opinion like on what's
[27:23] gotten out of order and maybe some
[27:25] things that need to come back into order
[27:26] because someone who you might not be
[27:29] like as far as I know an ordained
[27:30] apostle but dude you're the closest
[27:32] thing I've seen to like one and you kind
[27:35] of just do it for the internet like
[27:36] under the radar and so I'm just curious
[27:39] in your opinion if you'll share it
[27:42] gangster
[27:44] under the radar on the internet.
[27:47] Um, yeah, I think we have gotten a
[27:49] little bit out of line. I think people
[27:51] there's too much self-anointing
[27:53] that's happening. What does that look
[27:55] like? Oh, I just am going to self-anoint
[27:57] myself as an apostle or I'm going to
[28:00] selfanoint myself as a prophet. And um
[28:04] God doesn't really do that. Um, there's
[28:06] always going to be someone else or some
[28:10] other there's the the something someone
[28:12] else is going to find it and start
[28:15] calling it out.
[28:16] So, and and being ordained as a pastor,
[28:19] too, is
[28:23] I don't know if I should go there or
[28:25] not.
[28:25] >> That's why I'm asking for your opinion.
[28:28] >> Okay. Everything's my opinion. Okay. I
[28:31] can't I have extreme.
[28:33] >> You're not an ordained. Thank you. Okay.
[28:36] Um
[28:36] >> Right. You're not.
[28:37] >> No, I not an ordained anything. All
[28:39] right.
[28:39] >> I'm not an ordained consultant.
[28:42] >> Uh so, but here you are. One of my This
[28:45] is a place of like I think part of this
[28:48] is God's actually allowing me to sit in
[28:50] some seats that I'm not actually
[28:54] um
[28:57] academically
[29:00] accepted in or theologically
[29:05] trained in like I don't have the
[29:07] credentials to feel confident and I
[29:11] think that's by design. So when you come
[29:13] to like but you've seen it like our
[29:15] novos workshops and and I'm talking
[29:17] about the way that God
[29:22] built the nervous system to to store
[29:26] memory capacity. But there's there's
[29:28] sometimes glitches in the hippoc campus
[29:31] blah blah blah this that this people
[29:33] like oh my god it's like whatever. But I
[29:34] feel so stupid sometimes because I can I
[29:37] don't want to be that guy that's just
[29:39] like God told me this. I'm somewhat
[29:44] embarrassed by that because I am sort of
[29:47] like an intellectual person.
[29:50] I'll never forget in August of last
[29:52] year, we had two neuroscientists
[29:57] and like a PhD in like complex
[30:01] PTSD
[30:03] therapy, psychotherapy stuff. And they
[30:05] were at a belief architecture workshop.
[30:06] You paid money to come hear me talk
[30:08] about the brain. And I sort of knew that
[30:12] they were there. And I was just sort of
[30:13] insecure the whole day, the first day,
[30:15] because I'm not a neuroscientist.
[30:18] And the way I found out
[30:21] that my hormones were off
[30:24] and it was connected to my
[30:25] neurochemistry was because the Holy
[30:27] Spirit told me on a prayer walk. And I
[30:30] don't know how to tell people that
[30:31] because I sounded like a looney tune.
[30:34] And so I just went through the thing,
[30:35] but I I was insecure the whole day. And
[30:38] uh someone the one of the
[30:39] neuroscientists came to me afterwards
[30:40] and he was like, "When did you study so
[30:42] and so?" And I was I had never heard of
[30:44] this person before. And he was like,
[30:45] "How have you not heard of him?" And I
[30:46] was like, "I don't know. I don't read I
[30:48] I don't have I don't have like a
[30:50] doctorate in this stuff. And he was
[30:51] like, you're quoting you're quoting word
[30:53] for word
[30:56] one of his recent papers that came out
[30:58] just a couple of years ago. And he's
[30:59] like, you would have to He's like, oh,
[31:01] you would have had to have like four or
[31:02] five different levels of degrees and
[31:04] certifications to connect the dots that
[31:06] you're connecting. And it didn't make me
[31:08] feel prideful. It just made me sort of
[31:10] look at God and be like, "Thanks for
[31:12] that." Because I think, you know, God
[31:14] knew that I was feeling really insecure
[31:15] and so I was going to pull my punches.
[31:16] And so all of this stuff, I don't know.
[31:20] I just have my opinion from prayer. But
[31:23] the culture of church has really gone
[31:26] off the rails because we have too many
[31:28] self-anointed, self-appointed prophets,
[31:31] self-anointed, self-appointed
[31:33] apostles. Self-anointed, self-appointed
[31:36] pastors. Why do they call themselves
[31:38] pastors? Because they went to school and
[31:39] got a degree. But they're ne they were
[31:42] never called to be that. So, what degree
[31:44] did the Apostle Peter have?
[31:48] >> Following the God of the universe around
[31:50] for a while.
[31:51] >> Yeah. Not a degree, right? It's not he
[31:53] he didn't have that. He wasn't installed
[31:54] in there. Okay. Here's a better example.
[31:56] Matthew was trained in the wrong thing.
[32:01] So, he was trained in like extremely
[32:04] pred predatory commerce.
[32:07] And yet, he goes and he writes part of
[32:10] the gospels and he starts he's an
[32:11] apostle.
[32:12] God doesn't necessarily
[32:15] uh God doesn't necessarily need you to
[32:17] credentialize yourself, but other people
[32:19] will credentialize you and they will
[32:22] appoint you and that you have to submit
[32:24] to the process of why of how it's
[32:26] supposed to work. And so Paul had to be
[32:28] checked out. They had to literally meet
[32:30] about him and be like, "Is this dude
[32:31] legit or is he not?" And they're like,
[32:33] "Okay, he is legit." How do you think
[32:35] they determined that?
[32:36] >> God.
[32:39] Yeah. How else would you
[32:43] God?
[32:44] >> And then
[32:46] you know, even in in eras like church
[32:50] today,
[32:52] um,
[32:54] dude, I've lost I've lost track of how
[32:56] many people in my personal life have
[32:57] told me that I'm prophetic. And at first
[32:59] I'm like, screw that. I don't want
[33:01] anything to do with the prophets, you
[33:02] know? But it's very it's obvious now.
[33:05] People are like, they keep saying it
[33:06] over and over. And so I'm like, okay,
[33:08] maybe I am. But I never self-appointed
[33:10] myself as that. And I never
[33:12] self-appointed myself as like the
[33:13] internet teacher for spiritual. I don't
[33:15] care about any of that. But that's the
[33:18] problem with today's five-fold offices.
[33:20] You can't just pick one, bro. Okay? Like
[33:22] you can't just be like, I want to pick I
[33:24] want to pick that. It nobody cares. You
[33:26] can't do that. Someone else is going to
[33:28] have to call you into it and call you up
[33:30] into it.
[33:34] And I don't think you even should want
[33:36] to.
[33:38] I think there may be something wrong
[33:39] with you.
[33:41] If you are
[33:43] wanting to just be in front of people
[33:46] all of the time and teach them about God
[33:47] and call yourself a pastor, let God
[33:50] entice you into that.
[33:52] >> We have way too many people that I think
[33:54] are serving in vocational positions at
[33:56] church and it's it's just because they
[33:59] don't want to do anything else.
[34:04] It's not because God pushed them into
[34:07] it. M now I'm taking like I'm throwing
[34:10] rocks at things, but I think we need if
[34:13] if you're a real apostle, man, go into
[34:16] the business world.
[34:18] Help us.
[34:20] Prophets, stop bothering the church.
[34:24] You know, every king in the Old
[34:25] Testament had a prophet standing next to
[34:26] them. All of the kings had a prophet.
[34:30] Prophets should be in government.
[34:31] Prophets should be in businesses. Like
[34:34] for the love of God, leave the church
[34:36] alone for a second and go help us create
[34:39] real influence in the world, bro. We
[34:41] need you in government. We need you in
[34:42] business. Like, come come to our events
[34:46] and talk to me about stuff. Like, I
[34:48] would love to know what's going to
[34:49] happen in 2030. That'd be amazing. But
[34:52] no, all we want to do is talk about the
[34:53] church and give words to the church and
[34:55] try, but there's no like the influence
[34:58] is upstream. It's like it's way upstream
[35:01] from all of that. So, I love the
[35:04] audience that we have for Deep In
[35:05] because most of the audience for Deepend
[35:07] is like doing real stuff and they're
[35:11] working in the world. And I don't mean
[35:12] to say that if you're working in church
[35:14] vocationally, you're not doing real
[35:15] stuff. Maybe you're called to it, but
[35:17] the the lion's share of influence that
[35:21] God is creating on the earth right now.
[35:23] Is this Are you seeing it coming from
[35:26] church?
[35:27] >> Not really.
[35:28] >> At all?
[35:30] >> Hardly at all. Yeah. It's not where it's
[35:32] at. Revival's spinning and shifting into
[35:37] culture.
[35:39] >> That's where it's going. But then we're
[35:42] we're going to we're going to like cut
[35:43] our leg off at the knees here, too,
[35:45] because we're like, "Wow, he can't. No,
[35:48] that person can't talk to God. She was a
[35:50] prostitute."
[35:52] You're we're so dumb. M
[35:55] >> and so not only are we blocking the
[35:57] revelation that's supposed to fill out
[35:59] and spill out of the church because
[36:02] we're not doing it the right way, but
[36:04] we're also trying to then attempt to cut
[36:05] off the revelation that's spilling out
[36:06] in culture because we're judging them
[36:09] too. And I think it would be actually
[36:12] great for everyone to just like actually
[36:13] develop the skill set of not having an
[36:16] opinion for a while.
[36:19] Just delet command delete your opinions
[36:24] and then let the spirit fill you with
[36:27] his opinions
[36:31] >> which is discipline. You have to
[36:33] discipline yourself to do that.
[36:35] >> Okay. So question for you. I'm sorry I
[36:38] didn't even answer your question.
[36:39] >> No great.
[36:41] I feel like one of the things that can
[36:43] come from whether it's evangelists or
[36:46] pastors or teachers, which I think is
[36:48] normal for anybody in life is like we're
[36:50] all pretty, including myself, like I
[36:52] think sometimes I like wish there was
[36:53] more of me in the world sometimes, which
[36:56] what a silly like narcissistic question
[36:58] and like me being God question, but like
[37:01] when I hear that on stage, it's often
[37:03] like, hey, you should be more like me.
[37:06] And I know that you give a lot of things
[37:07] to a lot of thought to things. So I'm
[37:09] curious on like how do you encourage
[37:11] people to become who they were called to
[37:14] be not more like you? And in the
[37:17] apostolic the goal I don't think the
[37:19] goal is necessarily probably probably
[37:21] from your opinion is like not to raise
[37:23] up more apostles. It's probably to
[37:25] encourage people to do their job better
[37:27] and to like flourish where they're
[37:29] supposed to flourish which I know you're
[37:31] going to the weaknesses and the
[37:32] strengths at some point but like in life
[37:35] where have you screwed this up? Like
[37:37] seriously, where have you screwed this
[37:38] up? And like where have you done it
[37:39] really well?
[37:40] >> Oh dear.
[37:40] >> Like what's been working well?
[37:41] >> I've screwed up my whole life. My whole
[37:44] life until probably like a year ago and
[37:47] then even in the last year I've screwed
[37:48] it up.
[37:49] >> We I just apologize to you about this
[37:52] yesterday because there have been course
[37:54] corrections that I've made that probably
[37:56] weren't even good for you, you know? So,
[37:59] I mean, I screw it up all the time. I
[38:00] think I'm I think everyone, first of
[38:02] all, everyone is a little bit
[38:03] narcissistic. Um, if you're not
[38:05] narcissistic at all, um, then you're a
[38:10] psychopath.
[38:10] >> Is it because we all think we're right?
[38:12] >> We all think about ourselves
[38:15] >> and we orient around our points of views
[38:17] first. That's how we get an anchoring
[38:19] for the world around us. Like there's
[38:20] nothing. If you don't have your
[38:22] consciousness, you have nothing. So then
[38:24] you're floating and you're aimless and
[38:25] you're kind of you're a psychopath. You
[38:27] feel, you know, completely nothing. So
[38:30] everyone's a little bit narcissistic.
[38:31] But clinical narcissism is when you have
[38:33] a detachment from yourself and you start
[38:36] to obsess about yourself almost in the
[38:39] third person. And I don't think most
[38:42] people watching this are narcissistic. I
[38:44] don't think you're narcissistic. But I
[38:46] have
[38:49] I always I always thought that because
[38:51] of it was my idea then it it's the right
[38:53] idea. So that's pretty normal especially
[38:58] growing up and whenever
[39:00] >> growing up was that normal?
[39:02] >> Uh cuz for me that was normal.
[39:04] >> It was normal growing up for me to think
[39:06] that. Yeah.
[39:07] >> Why? How did that pro how does that
[39:08] programming get again?
[39:10] >> Uh because our brains are have this
[39:13] basian pred. So our brains don't care
[39:15] about what is real. Our brains care
[39:18] about prediction accuracy.
[39:20] That's all like the the brain wants its
[39:23] predictions to be proven as valid and
[39:25] vindicated. So our brains are naturally
[39:28] programmed evolutionarily to have like a
[39:31] vindication of prediction like always we
[39:33] want to be accurate but that is the
[39:36] thing that creates
[39:38] distortions blind spots. So even as kids
[39:42] we have this we have this brain inside
[39:44] of us that's programmed
[39:47] to predict the world correctly. If and
[39:48] if it doesn't predict the world
[39:49] correctly and it misses it too many
[39:51] times, we'll die.
[39:53] >> And it knows that if in a simple dumb
[39:56] example,
[39:58] if if you're walking across the street,
[40:02] your brain needs a prediction about
[40:04] what's going to happen if you do that.
[40:07] And so what do we teach our kids to do
[40:09] before you cross the street? Look both
[40:10] ways.
[40:11] >> Everyone knows it. Look both ways. But
[40:14] if we summed this down to the core root
[40:18] system, the reason we want our kids to
[40:20] look both ways and nobody explains it
[40:22] this way is like we make sure you pause
[40:24] so that your brain retains prediction
[40:26] accuracy.
[40:28] Kate, make sure your brain can predict
[40:30] accurately using its basian models
[40:33] system so that it doesn't accidentally
[40:36] die. This is what we're teaching the
[40:38] kids.
[40:39] >> Wow.
[40:39] >> How to do. So now we now we have a
[40:41] template. Let's run with that. If you're
[40:43] going to stand up and give a sermon
[40:47] now, how do you predict accurately?
[40:51] >> You prepare and you stay on your notes
[40:54] as much as you possibly can.
[40:55] >> Yeah.
[40:56] >> And then you rate it based off of were
[40:59] you rejected? Did people enjoy it? Did
[41:01] they think it was good? Did you sound
[41:03] confident? Seem confident, all the
[41:05] above. Yeah. Because you're looking for
[41:07] the outcome. And then if your brain
[41:10] doesn't want to suffer the consequence
[41:12] of predicting accurately which costs it
[41:14] something then you will distort the data
[41:18] and then you think that it was good even
[41:20] though other people are telling you that
[41:21] it wasn't. It all comes back down to
[41:23] this programming in the brain. It wants
[41:24] to be accurate. So it's a good thing
[41:26] when you think that your idea is the
[41:28] best idea. What's the opposite of this
[41:30] game? Yeah. Chronic insecurity analysis
[41:33] paralysis. So in a like everybody would
[41:37] just be like well that's not healthy for
[41:38] you to always think your idea is the
[41:40] best. Okay, ma'am. What do you think is?
[41:42] Let's go to the opposite of that. Is
[41:43] that healthy? No, no, that's not what I
[41:46] meant. Okay, well, what are you saying
[41:47] then? You know, when people are like,
[41:49] that's not healthy. That's just another
[41:50] prediction. That's your own prediction,
[41:53] you know, coming through.
[41:54] >> So, that's why it happens as a kid. And
[41:57] this has been my whole life. And so, I
[41:59] unfortunately have a very strong
[42:01] personality. And so the stronger your
[42:03] personality is, the the more force you
[42:07] put behind making your your predictions
[42:09] accurate, which can really turn off the
[42:12] the diversity of opinions around you.
[42:15] And
[42:18] the church does this too. The five-fold
[42:20] does this too. You want people who will
[42:22] disagree with you. If you put if you put
[42:24] um a pastor, an an evangelist, a
[42:27] teacher, a prophet, and an apostle in a
[42:29] room together and they're not arguing
[42:32] about how to do something, you have a
[42:34] bad team. It's a bad team. It's a bad
[42:37] It's a bad staff because it means they
[42:39] all have the same if everyone agrees
[42:41] they have the same blind spots and the
[42:43] same biases and the same distortions.
[42:45] So, what you want is them to agree. But
[42:47] what we've made a mistake at doing in
[42:49] the church and in the in the world is we
[42:52] don't stop at disagreements. We turn our
[42:54] disagreements into character flaws and
[42:57] character indictments. And it's no
[42:59] longer like, "Dude, I disagree with you
[43:01] on how we should do the YouTube episode.
[43:02] I don't think that that's right." All of
[43:04] the sudden, it becomes like,
[43:07] you don't think the right way ever, and
[43:10] this is probably why you're stuck in
[43:12] life.
[43:14] And where else have you really missed
[43:16] the boat?
[43:18] >> And now it's like a character.
[43:20] >> Yeah. Wow.
[43:21] >> indictment thing. you know, the the
[43:22] short today, which is the part the video
[43:25] from um
[43:26] >> Bory's where I'm talking about like
[43:30] church is is inherently a flawed idea
[43:35] because we're not talking about the
[43:37] ecclesia, the we're not we're talking
[43:39] about a location uh uh we're we're
[43:42] assigning permanence to a place that we
[43:45] were abused and we were hurt. But you
[43:47] know people go to a hospital and there
[43:49] are staff in the hospital that are bad
[43:51] staff and we don't now we don't indict
[43:53] the hospital all hospitals are bad. So
[43:57] if you just think it through for a
[43:58] little bit you'll kind of get what I'm
[44:00] trying to say. It's not gym hurt. It's
[44:02] not hospital hurt. It's it's it might be
[44:05] spiritual abuse. It might be sexual
[44:07] abuse. It might it might be narcissistic
[44:11] manipulative. But it's not church hurt.
[44:15] That's a really bad label.
[44:19] And dude, people in the comments like,
[44:21] "Well, this is an idiotic idea and it
[44:24] proves that you've never been hurt at
[44:25] church."
[44:28] Okay,
[44:29] >> I think you should just say it. I've
[44:31] been really hurt by church. Yeah. I've
[44:34] been like abandoned, betrayed, cheated
[44:37] on.
[44:38] >> By who? by the person that I was going
[44:41] to marry who slept with a pastor and
[44:44] then I was manipulated and gas lit at
[44:47] church and then the next church and I
[44:49] was like I've rolled through like all
[44:52] these scenarios at a church that were
[44:56] just dude super emotionally abusive
[44:59] people that I loved were wrapped up in
[45:02] it. But for somebody to get on my
[45:05] comments and basically
[45:08] indict me
[45:10] as,
[45:12] you know, like a narcissistic,
[45:14] predatory, never experienced anything is
[45:16] like we're we're going way past just
[45:18] like I disagree with this, which is
[45:20] healthy discourse. People should push
[45:22] back on me if they disagree. I disagree.
[45:24] I think that somebody commented like, I
[45:27] think that this might have been
[45:29] communicated a little bit arrogantly and
[45:31] I would check your heart. accepted,
[45:34] received. That's valid disagreement.
[45:36] Now, part of it's cuz it was chopped,
[45:38] but whatever. I'll take it.
[45:39] >> I'll take that.
[45:40] >> I'll take that. But to indict a person's
[45:44] character because you disagree.
[45:47] What it shows and this is my heristic.
[45:49] It shows that this person is so addicted
[45:53] to their ability to remain offended that
[45:55] they cannot get past the idea and they
[45:57] must demoralize and villainize me for
[46:01] them to feel comfortable sitting in
[46:03] their their offense.
[46:07] This is what it actually means. When
[46:08] somebody jumps to that extreme that
[46:10] quickly, it means that you are breathing
[46:14] in and breathing from your offense.
[46:16] You're drinking it like water and
[46:18] somebody had the audacity to touch your
[46:21] your idol.
[46:23] And now you have you must villainize
[46:25] that person because no one will take
[46:27] your idol away from you. And we do that
[46:30] in the five-fold all of the time where
[46:32] we're just like we're not just
[46:34] disagreeing. We're like that's a false
[46:35] prophet.
[46:39] How do you know? Because they said
[46:41] something I didn't agree with.
[46:44] But you know the the the you know the
[46:46] person who has said the most things that
[46:48] I disagree with in my entire life.
[46:51] >> But God.
[46:52] >> God.
[46:58] We am I going to indict him as a false
[46:59] prophet?
[47:05] How arrogant are we going to be?
[47:11] So, yeah, I'm interested in the
[47:14] strengths and the weaknesses of each of
[47:15] these people of the tribes. I'm
[47:17] interested in that.
[47:18] >> Trying to put us back on the rails right
[47:20] now.
[47:20] >> No, I'm not actually. I actually
[47:22] >> Taylor's off his rocker.
[47:23] >> No, I actually just have more questions.
[47:25] I I'm just trying to I'm trying to tell
[47:26] you that I'm still interested in that,
[47:27] but I have more questions on this.
[47:29] >> Okay.
[47:30] Can you speak to
[47:33] like the thought that keeps going on in
[47:34] my head is like what happens to the
[47:35] world if the apostle, the pastor, the
[47:39] evangelist, the prophet, the teacher all
[47:42] understand to a degree how their roles
[47:45] work together and how to respect them
[47:49] without intellectualizing it? Because
[47:52] like can you speak to the
[47:54] intellectualism that goes on in terms of
[47:55] like well you're not certified in this
[47:56] and like you haven't gone to the seminar
[47:58] you haven't done that like I know once
[48:01] again it's a very very messy question
[48:03] but I don't know how else to ask it.
[48:04] It's like how do we work together
[48:06] without intellectualizing be like well
[48:07] verse 16 says this and like the
[48:10] prophet's saying this and the prophet's
[48:11] got a revelation the pastor doesn't
[48:12] agree because of their seminary degree
[48:13] and this thing like and it's so
[48:16] intellectual all the time and like Jamie
[48:18] said he's like Jesus was an in
[48:20] intellectual guy like he was but he was
[48:24] intuitive first that governed the
[48:26] intellect.
[48:26] >> Yeah. So what does it look like if one
[48:31] all those work together but then what
[48:34] does it look like for them to stay out
[48:35] of the intellect and stay into the
[48:38] intuitive mind and sync with Holy Spirit
[48:39] like what does that actually look like
[48:40] and what does it do to the world it's
[48:43] same thing happens that happened when
[48:45] the Holy Spirit came upon upon men and
[48:49] they all disagreed with each other but
[48:52] they were so obsessed with the word not
[48:56] the not the Bible.
[48:58] They were obsessed with the word that
[49:01] they
[49:03] they pushed forward the message of the
[49:05] kingdom and it it took over a third of
[49:08] the known world with no internet.
[49:11] Very little correspondence. You know, to
[49:14] be a part of the early church, you
[49:16] couldn't just walk into a a church. It
[49:19] didn't work that way. You had to be
[49:20] invited.
[49:20] >> Why?
[49:21] >> Because they were being persecuted.
[49:24] And so you had to hide and you couldn't
[49:27] just advertise. You couldn't take out
[49:29] Facebook ads. You couldn't rent
[49:31] billboards and be like, "Come to our
[49:32] Easter service." That that didn't exist.
[49:34] You had to know somebody. It was very
[49:36] safe. It was guarded and it was kind of
[49:40] kept protected.
[49:42] And then you could come to church, but
[49:44] you couldn't um you couldn't participate
[49:49] and you couldn't get baptized. And you
[49:51] would have to meet with some the person
[49:52] who brought you for a couple of weeks
[49:55] and learn the creed, learn the belief
[49:58] system. What did Jesus do? They didn't
[50:00] talk about evangelism at all. Zero. We
[50:04] don't have hardly any letters on
[50:05] evangelism from the early church. They
[50:07] talked about the patience of Jesus. They
[50:09] talked about Jesus's ability to suffer
[50:12] and not lose their their minds. And
[50:16] after you were trained, then you can
[50:18] make a decision.
[50:20] And then once you made a decision after
[50:23] like another month you could be
[50:25] baptized. I mean it took like three
[50:26] months. Two two to three months. And yet
[50:29] the church took over like a third of the
[50:31] whole world.
[50:33] How?
[50:36] And we have internet and YouTube and
[50:38] email and text campaigns
[50:41] and we have big buildings and we have no
[50:44] persecution. Americans, you are not
[50:46] persecuted at all. We have none. No
[50:49] persecution.
[50:50] I know Sean Fut's like, "Oh, they
[50:52] wouldn't let me lead worship, dude. It
[50:54] don't m You're not persecuted at all.
[50:56] We're making a spectacle of ourselves.
[51:00] We're not getting along. We're acting
[51:02] like everything's some big pity party.
[51:04] There's drama everywhere." And we're
[51:07] basically just going out to the world
[51:08] and inviting them to our pity party. Who
[51:11] wants to come to that? Hey Jake, next
[51:14] Friday we're having a really cool thing.
[51:16] Come over. We're all going to sit and
[51:17] sulk and feel sorry for ourselves
[51:18] because we're persecuted.
[51:20] Would you like to come?
[51:24] That's what we do online. That's what we
[51:26] do on the internet. Whereas before it
[51:28] was like, man, even in death, there is
[51:31] life. Everything that you've ever
[51:33] wrestled with in your entire life, you
[51:36] can crucify it. And no one will ever be
[51:38] able to steal anything from you again
[51:40] because you're going to give it to them.
[51:42] And that gives you power. And there's
[51:45] the this this thing that was at the
[51:49] beginning that created everything that
[51:51] you know and he's actually now obsessed
[51:53] with you and you've been restored into
[51:55] the order of the kingdom of heaven. And
[51:58] if you just choose to belong,
[52:00] no one will ever take from you again.
[52:03] That's a better that's a pretty cool
[52:04] message.
[52:05] I would sign up for that like and now
[52:08] we're like yeah just come to our pity
[52:11] party where we all fight and if you step
[52:13] one foot out of line we will cannibalize
[52:15] you and eat you. Would you like to join
[52:17] our gang?
[52:20] Well, that's not what that's why it's
[52:22] not working.
[52:26] What would happen if we did it right?
[52:29] It's starting to happen. It's just not
[52:31] happening inside the church. Where do
[52:33] you see it happening? happening in the
[52:36] communities of the world that are
[52:37] actually the macro church and it's being
[52:41] rebuilt. The organizational church is
[52:44] being rebuilt. It's exactly what we said
[52:46] was going to happen a year and a half
[52:48] ago. Politicians will come to Jesus and
[52:50] prostitutes will come to Jesus and
[52:53] songwriters and superstars and movie
[52:55] stars will come to Jesus, but they don't
[52:57] have any audience inside of the church
[52:59] because the church just wants to use
[53:00] them for advertising. It's not real. And
[53:03] so what they'll end up doing is they'll
[53:04] put their own groups together the same
[53:06] way the organic way that the early
[53:08] church did and then the whole world will
[53:10] come they'll come to know the truth.
[53:13] We should hop on that bandwagon. We
[53:15] shouldn't be hating and throwing rocks
[53:16] on it being like you're theologically
[53:17] incorrect cuz your ex Jesus wasn't
[53:19] perfect.
[53:21] >> Also, what are you getting delivered in
[53:23] your yard right now? I'm so sorry.
[53:24] >> Dude, there's a lot being delivered in
[53:25] our yard.
[53:26] >> Is that mulch?
[53:27] >> Mulch?
[53:27] >> It's just going on in the background.
[53:29] They chopped up a bunch of trees.
[53:31] >> Okay. and they're carrying it out. We we
[53:34] don't have to worry about this for very
[53:35] much longer because we'll be moving
[53:37] video, but yeah, we have people taking
[53:39] care of the
[53:39] >> Oh, yeah.
[53:40] >> the the farm.
[53:42] Understood. Understood.
[53:45] Um,
[53:47] so I guess my question before moving
[53:49] forward that it's really helpful. My
[53:53] question is like to the people that just
[53:54] heard that and they're like, "Okay, got
[53:57] it. Understood. Didn't expect to hear
[53:59] that today." like what could I do
[54:02] better? Whether it's those that are in I
[54:06] you can be as general or as specific as
[54:08] you want, but like whether it's the
[54:10] pastor that's listening to this show
[54:11] going like, "Honestly, Taylor, like
[54:14] you're right. Like, I want to change
[54:15] things." Like, what would you say to
[54:18] that person? What would you say to the
[54:20] person that's like, "Honestly, like I'm
[54:22] pretty prophetic, but like I've just
[54:24] kind of shut my gifts down because it
[54:25] doesn't seem like the church really
[54:27] wants them anywhere and I don't really
[54:29] have the connection to business owners."
[54:31] Like what does what do those people do
[54:33] with this information? Like how do they
[54:36] make better choices moving forward?
[54:39] Like if you had that opportunity to make
[54:40] that much impact, what would you say? I
[54:43] would say that
[54:50] I want to answer this correctly. Uh,
[54:57] all I can do is tell you what I did when
[54:58] I had this moment with God.
[55:01] I can't tell other people what to do. I
[55:03] don't know. Actually, I was trying to
[55:05] think through if like I could come up
[55:07] with an answer, but I think part of
[55:11] part of what makes this unique is like
[55:12] I'm not just going to make something up.
[55:14] I don't I don't know. But I can tell
[55:16] from my story, I can tell people what I
[55:18] did
[55:21] because I left vocational ministry and I
[55:23] felt like a failure because I couldn't
[55:25] hack it. And it's not that I wasn't good
[55:28] enough to hack it. It was because I just
[55:31] lost love for the
[55:35] uh the little C church, you know. I I
[55:37] lost love for it. I lost my passion for
[55:39] it. Um,
[55:43] and it took me probably seven or eight
[55:45] years of being on my own and doing my
[55:47] own thing before I started to have like
[55:48] these
[55:50] healing encounters with God cuz I
[55:53] carried a chip on my shoulder and I just
[55:55] built something that I was that I could
[55:57] use to replace the mission that I had
[55:58] from working at church.
[56:01] And one day some lady
[56:06] texted me and said she had a prophetic
[56:09] word for me and I ignored her. Was at
[56:12] the old house cuz I have a very bad
[56:15] experience or growing up with prophets
[56:18] and I don't like I didn't like them. She
[56:21] texted me again. I ignored her again.
[56:23] And finally she she called me and I
[56:25] answered and I was sitting in the
[56:26] driveway in my old NSX. Remember that
[56:29] car? Mm-
[56:30] >> Yeah. So, I've got had the one of the
[56:32] new Acura NSXs and then I flipped it and
[56:35] gotten into Porsches. Porsches are way
[56:37] better. So, if you're wondering, nothing
[56:39] against Acura, but Porsches are better.
[56:41] So, I'm sitting in the car and she says,
[56:42] "God told me to tell you that you were
[56:46] not removed from the church and you were
[56:49] not removed from the mission field, but
[56:51] you were promoted into the largest
[56:53] mission field on the earth, which is the
[56:55] business community." And it wasn't a
[56:58] failure.
[56:59] And something about that like made me
[57:02] feel something. And I was like all my
[57:03] feelings were turned off.
[57:06] And I started to ask God if that was
[57:08] like something that I should pursue, but
[57:10] I didn't know how to I didn't really
[57:11] know how to hear him. And when when we
[57:13] got into the deep end at the beginning,
[57:16] um
[57:18] you remember how hard I struggled
[57:19] against wanting to not be a pastor and
[57:22] not labeled as a pastor and I didn't
[57:23] want people to think that I was. And I
[57:26] finally dealt with it in this chair in
[57:27] that corner one day and I just said,
[57:29] "Look, I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry that
[57:32] I've made my obedience conditional
[57:35] because I'm I'm I don't want to fit into
[57:37] something that isn't right. I I'm sorry
[57:40] that I have
[57:42] labeled
[57:44] your plans good or bad based on whether
[57:47] I agree with them or understand them.
[57:49] Would you show me? Would you show me
[57:51] what I'm supposed to be?" because it's
[57:53] not a pastor and it's it's not an
[57:56] apostle and it's not a teacher and it's
[57:59] not a I don't care at all about these
[58:02] five offices.
[58:04] All I care about is like there's there's
[58:06] something that God wants me to say and I
[58:08] want to figure out how to say it better.
[58:11] Would you activate me
[58:14] and put me into the rooms and the
[58:17] positions and in front of the people
[58:18] that I need to be put in front of? I
[58:21] would be very careful trying to just
[58:23] intellectually understand where God has
[58:25] you right now because you won't
[58:28] understand it until you're looking
[58:29] backwards on it. But it it the root code
[58:31] is an apology.
[58:33] It's repentance as everything else is. I
[58:36] mean, how many times we talk about that?
[58:38] So, if somebody's listening to this,
[58:39] man, you're right. I really understand
[58:40] this, but I want to do something fresh.
[58:42] Cool. Here's where we start. Go find a
[58:44] place to get on your knees where no one
[58:46] can see you
[58:48] and get on your knees and ask God that
[58:50] if he that that he'll change your mind.
[58:54] >> Can I ask you just for curiosity sake,
[58:56] when was the last time you did that?
[58:58] >> Asking God to change my mind.
[59:00] >> Yeah.
[59:00] >> Sunday night.
[59:02] >> Okay. It's a good example.
[59:05] >> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I thought some things
[59:07] about God's plan that were pro that were
[59:09] incorrect and I needed him to change my
[59:11] mind on it. So, hey, you got me really
[59:14] deep, dude. Now, we got to come back
[59:15] over air.
[59:16] >> Okay. Well, I think it could be fun to
[59:19] go into a little bit. You said uh before
[59:21] that people are not always just like one
[59:24] or the other. You're like, I feel like
[59:25] even for me, like sometimes I'm I feel
[59:27] like I'm a little bit more evangelistic.
[59:29] Sometimes I can be prophetic. I can be
[59:32] this. But for me personally, man, like I
[59:34] have no idea what I fit into. I don't
[59:36] know if that matters. I've never really
[59:38] cared. I've just been like for most of
[59:41] my life I've just been filling the role
[59:42] of like the worship leader which is like
[59:45] don't get me started there but it's like
[59:48] like that's just been what I've been
[59:49] doing. So it's like
[59:50] >> worship leader Jake
[59:52] >> Jake Bryan is his worship leader name
[59:54] Jake Supoupe is his
[59:56] >> married name
[59:57] >> his evangelistic name.
[59:58] >> You want to know something about Jake
[59:59] Sup versus Jake Bryan?
[01:00:00] >> Yeah.
[01:00:00] >> I have officially decided I'm not going
[01:00:02] to Jake Supoupe for branding. You know
[01:00:04] why?
[01:00:04] >> Why?
[01:00:05] >> Cuz Mr. freaking Thomas Rhett. That's
[01:00:08] not his last name. That is his middle
[01:00:10] name. So when he goes on podcast, it is
[01:00:12] Thomas Rhett and Lauren Akins. But
[01:00:15] Thomas Rhett's last name is Akens, bro.
[01:00:17] Like
[01:00:18] >> he just goes by Thomas and when his wife
[01:00:20] when his wife's on the podcast, he's
[01:00:21] like when Thomas Rhett goes on tour, I'm
[01:00:23] like I like that. I'm sticking with Jake
[01:00:26] Bryan. I'm not changing. It's not going
[01:00:28] anywhere.
[01:00:29] >> It's a good brand.
[01:00:30] >> It's not going anywhere. But anyways,
[01:00:32] when it comes to Cuz you're about to
[01:00:34] talk about tribes. Yeah.
[01:00:35] >> Which is if you're going to find out the
[01:00:37] strength and the weakness,
[01:00:39] >> does it matter what you are as part of
[01:00:40] the fivefold? Is there a magic age that
[01:00:42] you hit where you're all of a sudden
[01:00:44] qualified or you have the ability to be
[01:00:47] qualified for a prophet evangelist? Like
[01:00:49] before we started filming, I was I think
[01:00:50] I can't remember if I asked you before
[01:00:51] we started filming. I was like like do
[01:00:53] you have to have a certain level of
[01:00:54] experience to be a prophet? Like how
[01:00:56] long is that? Is that just arbitrary? Is
[01:00:58] it just made up? Like
[01:01:01] like does it matter what you are? Like
[01:01:03] it how do you identify? How do you
[01:01:06] properly use that to identify? Uh no,
[01:01:10] there's not an age. Okay.
[01:01:12] >> No. In the end times, old men uh will
[01:01:18] have dreams and and young men will
[01:01:20] >> have visions.
[01:01:21] >> Have visions or prophesy. I may have
[01:01:23] gotten that backwards. Whatever the
[01:01:24] verse is,
[01:01:24] >> it's actually accurate.
[01:01:26] >> Um so yeah, children children will
[01:01:29] children can be prophets.
[01:01:31] >> Yeah. Um, children can be teachers. How
[01:01:33] old was Jesus when he was caught
[01:01:35] teaching?
[01:01:35] >> Wasn't like 12
[01:01:37] >> 12 years old.
[01:01:38] >> And they were, the Bible says they were
[01:01:39] amazed at his understanding. They were
[01:01:41] amazed at his dua. He was so intimate
[01:01:43] with the material. They were like, "How
[01:01:44] did you figure this out? You're telling
[01:01:46] us things that we didn't even infer from
[01:01:47] the text." Um, so, okay, I'm probably
[01:01:50] not a
[01:01:51] >> That's cool. There's probably not a age
[01:01:53] bracket because that means Jesus was a
[01:01:55] teacher at the age of 12.
[01:01:57] >> But he wasn't credentialized at the age
[01:01:59] of 12,
[01:02:00] >> but he was still a teacher.
[01:02:02] >> What do you mean credentialized?
[01:02:02] >> Credentialized. He wasn't a rabbi at the
[01:02:04] age of 12. He wasn't through school. He
[01:02:06] wasn't like
[01:02:08] branded and certified to the to the
[01:02:11] people of Israel as a teacher.
[01:02:12] >> Okay. Can we talk about that for a
[01:02:14] second? Like
[01:02:14] >> Oh, man. You're on a you're on one
[01:02:16] today, dude.
[01:02:16] >> Because like I'm trying to get the
[01:02:18] identity down. Basically, I'm I'm just
[01:02:20] like, dude, like who
[01:02:23] like Jesus? One of the things, okay,
[01:02:25] maybe this is just cuz I'm reading the
[01:02:26] Bible this way right now. I'm reading
[01:02:28] through John as I was told to. Someone
[01:02:31] told me to I need to read through it. I
[01:02:33] was like, okay, fine. But I'm asking
[01:02:34] like how how how that's what I asked
[01:02:36] Holy Spirit like what how am I supposed
[01:02:38] to read John through right now? He said,
[01:02:40] ask how? And I'm just stuck here like
[01:02:43] how did Jesus get to be like when did he
[01:02:47] qualify as rabbi? You were like he
[01:02:48] wasn't credentialed until he was rabbi.
[01:02:50] But like who credentialed Jesus besides
[01:02:53] God?
[01:02:55] Well, he was a I think he was that that
[01:02:58] begs the question of are we doing it the
[01:03:00] right way? Thank you. That's that's what
[01:03:03] I'm like cuz we can only get into the
[01:03:05] traps if we can understand the
[01:03:07] identities. Like I don't know how to
[01:03:08] self assess my own identity stuff. Like
[01:03:11] I'm like how do I look at that and I
[01:03:13] don't know what to do with it. The only
[01:03:15] one trustworthy is God. that is the only
[01:03:18] one that is trustworthy.
[01:03:19] >> And there is a um there's a problem even
[01:03:24] then the credentialization of prophets
[01:03:26] or apostles when you could have a
[01:03:30] legitimate prophet
[01:03:33] call out another legitimate prophet
[01:03:38] and that secondary prophet is actually
[01:03:41] not credentialized by God. They were
[01:03:43] credentialized by a prophet and now we
[01:03:45] have a glitch in the matrix. Okay,
[01:03:48] >> we have a serious glitch in the matrix
[01:03:50] because
[01:03:51] we don't know where that prophet's
[01:03:53] getting their revelation from.
[01:03:57] So when even when Jesus was talking to
[01:04:00] the rich young ruler, the rich young
[01:04:02] ruler was like, "You're good. You're a
[01:04:03] good teacher." And he was like, "Why are
[01:04:05] you calling me good?" No one is good
[01:04:07] except for God. No one has the requisite
[01:04:10] repository of trustworthiness except for
[01:04:12] God. Don't ascribe that to any man, any
[01:04:16] person.
[01:04:18] We We have all of these weird ways of
[01:04:20] like that person is trustworthy, this
[01:04:22] person is not. When it comes to like the
[01:04:25] vocational stuff or the offices, I think
[01:04:27] we're doing the best we can, but there's
[01:04:30] too many glitches inside of it. And so
[01:04:33] what what I want is I don't want the
[01:04:35] credentialization of man. Okay.
[01:04:43] Keep going.
[01:04:46] This is a very apostolic thing to say as
[01:04:48] well, which is why most of Yeah. This is
[01:04:52] why
[01:04:54] Paul would be a gangster example. Paul
[01:04:56] was an apostle.
[01:04:58] And Paul's on record for being like,
[01:05:00] "You're not the judge of me. You don't
[01:05:03] determine whether I'm an apostle or not.
[01:05:06] I'm an apostle of Jesus. He's the one
[01:05:08] that ordained me. to go eat rocks
[01:05:11] and decide whether you want to listen or
[01:05:13] not. That's basically Paul's like
[01:05:15] personality. Decide whether you want to
[01:05:17] listen or not. That sounds like a big
[01:05:19] deal.
[01:05:19] >> Yeah.
[01:05:22] Yeah. So, but this is like one of the
[01:05:25] main OG apostles, dude. Who's teaching
[01:05:27] the other First of all, man, like you
[01:05:30] have the apostles who literally walked
[01:05:32] with Jesus and sometimes Paul's having
[01:05:33] to fix them. He's fixing Peter. Sure.
[01:05:36] He's fixing Peter. He's like wasn't even
[01:05:38] in the crew.
[01:05:39] >> He wasn't a disciple of Jesus Christ.
[01:05:40] >> That's a mark of Peter's humility.
[01:05:43] >> And it's also a sign of Peter's
[01:05:45] willingness to fail and look like an
[01:05:46] idiot because how did how did he get
[01:05:49] that to the level of humility? Because
[01:05:51] he's not a humble personality type. He's
[01:05:55] obnoxious. He's in your face and loud.
[01:05:57] But he got that because he failed his
[01:05:59] whole life. And so he's like figured out
[01:06:01] that I just need to like receive, you
[01:06:03] know, correction. But m most of our
[01:06:12] dude this pro this podcast is going to
[01:06:14] give me so much trouble. Dude, I feel
[01:06:16] like I'm being baited by you. I'm not
[01:06:18] being bro. I promise you I'm not baiting
[01:06:19] this for anybody. I'm personally You
[01:06:21] have no idea how many questions I have
[01:06:23] on this. There are some people that God
[01:06:25] won't credentialize you because too many
[01:06:26] men have.
[01:06:30] And it's just like, well, you got what
[01:06:32] you wanted.
[01:06:34] You wanted other people to you wanted
[01:06:36] other people to vindicate you. So I
[01:06:38] don't need to. And you've selected what
[01:06:40] you what you really needed in your
[01:06:42] heart. What you craved above everything
[01:06:44] else is for people to recognize you and
[01:06:46] anoint you and to call you. And you got
[01:06:49] it. So I'm not I don't need to.
[01:06:52] And I'm terrified of that. I don't want
[01:06:54] that. I want God to anoint me, vindicate
[01:06:57] me, and call me. I want God to place me.
[01:07:00] And there's a hesitancy. There's a
[01:07:02] hesitancy that I have even when people
[01:07:03] sometimes and I'm not saying that you
[01:07:05] you should feel bad for doing this but
[01:07:07] when
[01:07:09] you know an addict is always an addict
[01:07:12] you're if you've been an addict of of
[01:07:15] alcohol had an alcohol addiction
[01:07:18] if you've had um addiction to narcotics
[01:07:23] you never your your mind never forgets
[01:07:25] what it's what it was like to have that
[01:07:28] ever. And so you just don't drink
[01:07:30] anymore.
[01:07:32] Just don't because your mind will
[01:07:34] remember. And it just takes one drink to
[01:07:35] go back because you're always an addict.
[01:07:38] Once an addict, always an addict. Now
[01:07:40] people were like, "No, God can save you
[01:07:42] from addiction." Yeah. Yeah. But your
[01:07:44] mind is going to remember.
[01:07:46] I have I have a previous addiction to
[01:07:50] validation from men.
[01:07:53] I do. And I'm I'll always be an addict
[01:07:56] of I have to protect myself from that.
[01:07:59] People like talk about the alcohol.
[01:08:01] Alcohol is nothing to me. But but too
[01:08:03] many people
[01:08:05] telling me that I'm the real deal.
[01:08:10] I remember it starts to make me
[01:08:14] pull my punches and tune my message
[01:08:16] because it's like I really want that.
[01:08:17] Like I really want I want the approval
[01:08:20] and the credentials. And I've had to
[01:08:22] just God will give you a rehab period
[01:08:24] just like if you're an alcoholic you
[01:08:26] just go to rehab or if you're if you're
[01:08:28] addicted to narcotics what do they do
[01:08:29] they lock you in a freaking building
[01:08:31] where there's no and you think you're
[01:08:33] dying but there's no supply you can't
[01:08:35] get any supply in the same way when we
[01:08:38] have an addiction to approval. Thank God
[01:08:41] he gives us a rehab period where no one
[01:08:44] sees you, no one approves of you, no one
[01:08:46] validates you, and no one even cares.
[01:08:50] And you you begin to rehab out of it.
[01:08:52] And that's what happened with me
[01:08:55] >> is I lost my reputation. I lost my
[01:08:57] businesses. I lost the money. Everything
[01:09:00] I was addicted to that told me I was
[01:09:02] safe, I was secure, and I was a good
[01:09:04] person. I had to go through a rehab
[01:09:06] period of those things just like an
[01:09:08] addict.
[01:09:10] And the only way for me to fully stay
[01:09:12] like free from that is just like a
[01:09:14] full-on locked in on I want credential
[01:09:16] from God, not from other people. And
[01:09:20] that's Jesus's thing. Other people will
[01:09:22] still like they'll still like call you
[01:09:25] into it, but you know, Jesus was Jesus
[01:09:29] was approved and anointed and called by
[01:09:31] by God. That's incredible. That's what I
[01:09:33] would like to have. I would like to have
[01:09:35] that, you know, and other people saw it,
[01:09:37] too. He had John the Baptist. He had his
[01:09:40] apostles. He had all of the people
[01:09:41] seeing hosana. Hosanna is the son of
[01:09:43] David. But none of by the time he got
[01:09:46] there, none of it was really filling his
[01:09:48] tank up. He wasn't like, "You're right.
[01:09:51] I am, you know, I am the Messiah." He
[01:09:53] already was God told him that he already
[01:09:55] knew. So,
[01:09:58] uh, what were you asking? Sorry. No,
[01:10:00] you're answering the question. I think
[01:10:01] one of the so one of the things that
[01:10:03] you're answering as a result of it is
[01:10:04] like what does it look like to be
[01:10:08] healthy in that and you said Paul was
[01:10:11] like here's my stuff listen to me or
[01:10:14] don't.
[01:10:16] It sounds like you were like it sounds
[01:10:18] like the I don't know if this is just
[01:10:19] the apostolic office or all of them, but
[01:10:22] it sounds like there's a level of
[01:10:23] control that ends up having to be
[01:10:25] released in a heart posture that changes
[01:10:26] from I have to do my job as in like I'm
[01:10:30] going to control I'm going to make all
[01:10:31] this work versus I'm a servant and if
[01:10:34] you don't want to listen then don't
[01:10:36] listen.
[01:10:39] Yeah, let's read that where Paul says
[01:10:42] that. 1 Corinthians, I think it's 1
[01:10:44] Corinthians 4.
[01:10:52] A person should think of us in this way
[01:10:55] as servants of Christ and managers of
[01:10:57] the mysteries of God.
[01:11:01] Mysteries of God.
[01:11:05] You know exactly what I'm talking about.
[01:11:07] In this regard, it is required that
[01:11:09] managers be found faithful. Verse three,
[01:11:12] it is of little importance to me that I
[01:11:14] should be judged by you or by any human
[01:11:17] court. In fact, I don't even judge
[01:11:19] myself, for I am not conscious of
[01:11:21] anything about myself, but I am not
[01:11:22] justified by this. It is the Lord who
[01:11:24] judges me. So don't judge anything
[01:11:26] prematurely before the Lord comes who
[01:11:28] will both bring the light to light what
[01:11:31] is hidden in darkness and reveal the
[01:11:32] intentions of the heart and then praise
[01:11:34] will come to each one from God. So he's
[01:11:37] saying little importance. This is such a
[01:11:40] like a this is such a like a head,
[01:11:43] you know, like it's it's of little
[01:11:46] importance to me that I would be judged
[01:11:47] by you or any of you or any human court.
[01:11:52] So don't judge prematurely cuz one day
[01:11:54] God's going to show up and he's going to
[01:11:55] reveal the intentions of the heart and
[01:11:57] then there will be praise from God. So
[01:11:59] he's basically being like, you get to
[01:12:00] pick the side that you're going to be on
[01:12:02] and then God will judge you for judging
[01:12:04] me and he'll judge me in the process. So
[01:12:06] I do not care what you think about my
[01:12:09] revelation. And the most offended people
[01:12:12] who were offended by other people being
[01:12:14] apostles or prophets is because they
[01:12:16] went through all the work to get their
[01:12:18] credentials as this or that or the
[01:12:20] other, but God never credentialized
[01:12:21] them. So they're offended at the people
[01:12:22] that God credentialized.
[01:12:26] There's the bitterness.
[01:12:29] >> But then you have the Bereans. You
[01:12:32] familiar with them?
[01:12:32] >> Oh yeah.
[01:12:33] >> But at the same time, they're not
[01:12:34] judging Paul. They're just going, "Hey,
[01:12:36] we're going to fact check all your
[01:12:37] stuff.
[01:12:37] >> Fact check it away, dude. Fact."
[01:12:38] >> So, what does it look like to have that
[01:12:40] unhealthy system? Cuz there's that piece
[01:12:41] with the Bereans. And then I just
[01:12:43] thought of something you said the other
[01:12:44] week that I was like, I should probably
[01:12:46] ask him about more in depth on this and
[01:12:48] balancing that with the Bereans is like
[01:12:50] a couple weeks ago. I think it was it
[01:12:52] might have been the rejection episode,
[01:12:53] but you were like, it's not all about
[01:12:55] like I just need to know what God thinks
[01:12:57] of me. But like with Jesus, that's
[01:12:59] pretty much all he had. Like like I know
[01:13:01] what my father thinks about me and I
[01:13:03] don't care what you say about me. So it
[01:13:05] was like that's all that Jesus had and
[01:13:08] >> he had way more than that.
[01:13:10] >> Okay, that's why I'm asking. I think it
[01:13:12] might be worth elaborating on that to
[01:13:13] some extent to how that applies here
[01:13:16] when God's asked you to do something and
[01:13:18] no one's validating it.
[01:13:20] Yeah, but everyone else every a lot of
[01:13:23] people. Okay, so that's okay. But check
[01:13:25] if you go into a if you go into an arena
[01:13:28] and then everyone is missing legs and
[01:13:31] then they all leave the arena with legs.
[01:13:35] >> What?
[01:13:36] >> They're healed.
[01:13:37] >> Yeah.
[01:13:38] >> That seems to sort of presuppose that
[01:13:41] you're being validated.
[01:13:42] >> Yeah.
[01:13:43] >> But then there's also the fruit of a
[01:13:45] person's life. So
[01:13:46] >> the manifestation manifestation, but
[01:13:48] manifestation includes fruit. It's not
[01:13:50] just miracles. It includes fruit. Mhm.
[01:13:53] >> So, what's the fruit? I think the fruit
[01:13:55] of my life is pretty validating right
[01:13:58] now. But it it wasn't always that way.
[01:14:01] >> Sure.
[01:14:02] >> But Jesus had way more than just like
[01:14:05] knowing what God thinks about him. But
[01:14:06] none of it's making its way to this to
[01:14:09] this reality. It was all making its way
[01:14:10] to this reality. It was showing up as
[01:14:12] fruit that he could look at and point
[01:14:14] to. Also, Jesus had no sin. So there was
[01:14:18] >> sure
[01:14:18] >> there was no corruption inside of the
[01:14:21] way that the brain views itself. So
[01:14:23] Jesus had a a physical brain.
[01:14:25] >> Yeah.
[01:14:25] >> And so inside that physical brain you
[01:14:27] have self-efficacy. You have an ACC that
[01:14:29] judges your behaviors. You have a you
[01:14:32] know you have a part of the brain that
[01:14:34] tracks memory and context. You have
[01:14:36] trauma
[01:14:37] and what is that trauma for? And sin had
[01:14:40] not broken the functionality of what the
[01:14:43] what God designed the brain to do which
[01:14:45] is primarily and almost exclusively to
[01:14:48] make meaning.
[01:14:50] And so while the brain might be obsessed
[01:14:53] with prediction, the mind is mostly
[01:14:55] doing that so it can create meaning.
[01:14:56] >> Mhm.
[01:14:57] >> And nothing was breaking Jesus's ability
[01:14:59] to make meaning. So he was very
[01:15:00] traumatized in different areas, but it
[01:15:03] all meant something and you see that.
[01:15:04] But for the glory that was before him,
[01:15:06] that was the meaning.
[01:15:08] So we have a lot we have a lot to learn
[01:15:10] from Jesus because even if if we just
[01:15:12] take one thing from one part of Jesus's
[01:15:14] life, we can see that he didn't worship
[01:15:16] his pain and he didn't stay stuck in
[01:15:18] trauma cuz there was something next. So
[01:15:21] what if we would do that in these five
[01:15:24] offices and in the tribes and all of the
[01:15:25] stuff? What if we would get healed from
[01:15:27] our trauma? What if we would give our
[01:15:29] trauma to God?
[01:15:32] And what if we would let go of our need,
[01:15:34] our addiction to make it even and make
[01:15:38] it right and make it fair? Well, then
[01:15:41] now we're starting to tap into the upper
[01:15:43] realms of of spiritual power. But we we
[01:15:46] are sometimes in in unable to do this
[01:15:50] because we live in a culture that really
[01:15:52] praises
[01:15:55] and promotes victimization and
[01:15:57] victimhood.
[01:15:59] And so God can't use us.
[01:16:03] It doesn't matter how much you know. You
[01:16:04] know, if you're if you're obsessed with
[01:16:05] what who has hurt you and you're
[01:16:07] obsessed with what has happened to you,
[01:16:10] that's all you can see. You have a
[01:16:11] massive distortion of your eyes and the
[01:16:12] enemy doesn't even need to play with you
[01:16:13] anymore. He doesn't have to do anything
[01:16:15] because he knows that you'll just you'll
[01:16:16] just self-destruct and you'll victimize
[01:16:19] yourself and you'll never be will you'll
[01:16:21] never be able to forgive
[01:16:23] which means you'll never be trusted with
[01:16:25] power.
[01:16:27] Got it. So what do you do with what do
[01:16:29] you think the healthy system knowing
[01:16:31] what you know about Paul knowing what
[01:16:33] you know about Jesus but primarily about
[01:16:34] Paul because Paul did have sin so it's a
[01:16:36] little bit more relatable to the rest of
[01:16:38] us cuz you could definitely see I feel
[01:16:41] like I could see the Apostle Paul's
[01:16:42] words being used today but the system
[01:16:45] not in place to where someone says I was
[01:16:48] ordained by God you can let judge God
[01:16:51] judge you and then you create a cult of
[01:16:54] someone who's like if you're not on this
[01:16:56] on this apostle or this pastor's side,
[01:16:58] you're on the wrong side of God, bro.
[01:17:01] But then you've got the Bereans, which
[01:17:02] it seems like that actually is the check
[01:17:04] and balance that brings balance. It
[01:17:07] takes away the cult side of the system.
[01:17:08] Like, I won't name any church names, but
[01:17:11] there are like, dude, there are
[01:17:12] literally churches that are having that
[01:17:13] problem because checks and balances
[01:17:15] aren't allowed. Basically, there's no
[01:17:18] system. So, what do you see as like
[01:17:21] you've got the healthy Bereans who are
[01:17:23] fact-checking everything Paul's saying
[01:17:25] through the Torah, through what Jesus is
[01:17:27] saying, things like that. What do you
[01:17:29] see as that healthy system? And like
[01:17:31] what would that probably more what it
[01:17:32] probably look like back then? How do you
[01:17:34] think Paul would have received it and
[01:17:35] probably what it would look like today?
[01:17:36] That might take a second to chew on and
[01:17:38] get out, but like no, you need what
[01:17:39] we're talking about in this episode,
[01:17:40] which is you need diversification. You
[01:17:42] need the 12 tribes, the archetypes. You
[01:17:44] need them split in the in the functions.
[01:17:48] You need a Dan
[01:17:50] who is a judge
[01:17:52] who Samson came from who was a judge
[01:17:56] >> whose job was to judge right and wrong
[01:18:00] and hold it to a moral standard. You
[01:18:02] need a judge. You also need someone who
[01:18:05] can learn how to uh
[01:18:10] prioritize things that are like when
[01:18:12] you're in the middle of war. We're not
[01:18:15] going to judge
[01:18:17] all of the little details. We're we're
[01:18:18] in war. You Benjamite who knows how to
[01:18:21] like push through
[01:18:24] difficult situations and difficult
[01:18:25] walls. But then you need uh you know a
[01:18:30] naughty who can heal
[01:18:34] and create beauty out of ashes
[01:18:38] because that's part of the function as
[01:18:40] well. Mhm.
[01:18:41] >> And then you also need a
[01:18:45] Judah who can organize it all together
[01:18:48] because if everyone's obsessed with
[01:18:50] healing and expression, no one can fight
[01:18:52] the war. But if everyone's fighting the
[01:18:54] war, then no one can judge right and
[01:18:57] wrong. So this Judin needs to organize
[01:18:58] everything. So, you've got these
[01:19:00] different houses that I'm actually
[01:19:03] suggesting we we get more familiar with
[01:19:06] so that we know how to diversify the
[01:19:08] body of Christ so that we don't end up
[01:19:10] with the five offices that are all of
[01:19:12] the same personality.
[01:19:14] They're doing all of the things the same
[01:19:16] way. Okay. It doesn't totally answer my
[01:19:20] question though on like what the system
[01:19:22] looks like. And just for context, like
[01:19:24] this is coming from Acts 17:11. says uh
[01:19:26] now the Bereans were of noble character
[01:19:28] for they received the message with great
[01:19:29] eagerness and examined the scriptures
[01:19:31] every day. This wasn't just like one
[01:19:34] tribe or one person. It was like a whole
[01:19:37] area. These were the people who lived in
[01:19:39] the city of Berea which is uh modern day
[01:19:42] Greece is an area of Greece. Um, but
[01:19:45] like basically like the way the chat's
[01:19:48] summing it up is that they were open,
[01:19:49] but they weren't gullible and they
[01:19:50] verified everything with scripture,
[01:19:52] which is probably where you get some of
[01:19:54] these people online that are like
[01:19:55] they're coming from a pure place and
[01:19:57] they're like, "Where do you see that in
[01:19:58] scripture?" Like they're trying to back
[01:19:59] it up. They're like, "How are you
[01:20:01] backing up these claims that you're
[01:20:02] putting out there?" So, what I'm asking
[01:20:04] for is like,
[01:20:06] maybe I'm just trying to avoid conflict.
[01:20:08] Maybe I'm trying to avoid disagreement,
[01:20:09] but I am trying to figure out how do we
[01:20:10] create unity through this and unify the
[01:20:12] body of Christ through it.
[01:20:14] >> What does unity mean though?
[01:20:17] >> Unity in terms of
[01:20:20] we can agree on
[01:20:23] how Jesus wants to move his church
[01:20:25] forward. No, that's not what unity
[01:20:28] means. So that's why we're talking past
[01:20:30] each other.
[01:20:30] >> Okay?
[01:20:32] >> Unity doesn't mean we agree on how.
[01:20:35] Unity agree means we agree on on the end
[01:20:38] and where we're going and what we're
[01:20:39] gonna do.
[01:20:40] >> That's a way better. Yep.
[01:20:41] >> Yeah. So, but but you and you didn't do
[01:20:44] this on purpose, but this is a
[01:20:45] subconscious thing that I think is good
[01:20:47] we talk about because if we always
[01:20:49] believe that unity is we all agree on
[01:20:51] how, then we'll always bicker and fight
[01:20:52] and disagree on how and call it
[01:20:55] disunityity, but that's not true. So,
[01:20:57] yeah, throw a couple Bereans in the mix.
[01:20:59] They don't get a tribe, though. They're
[01:21:01] just intellectual hippies and I love
[01:21:03] them. Okay? like read the scripture
[01:21:05] every day and put your theology into
[01:21:07] lectures and put them on the on the
[01:21:08] internet. We need we would I would like
[01:21:10] to read your lectures. I would like to
[01:21:12] read what you say about your
[01:21:14] interpretation of the text. That's a
[01:21:16] good thing. But you do not see the Holy
[01:21:20] Spirit fall and descend on a like a dove
[01:21:24] on Jesus because he fact checked the
[01:21:27] lurggical rhythm of the scriptural text.
[01:21:31] You don't see that. So, what unlocked it
[01:21:34] was not a Berean personality. That
[01:21:38] doesn't mean I don't like Bereans. I
[01:21:39] would probably say that a Berean would
[01:21:42] be a more probably apostolic type
[01:21:44] personality trait anyways because you're
[01:21:47] going to be like, "Yeah, I don't care.
[01:21:48] Is that true or false? Let me go find
[01:21:50] the proof for it."
[01:21:51] >> Mhm.
[01:21:51] >> But that's not an issue of unity.
[01:21:53] >> It goes back to the same thing. How do
[01:21:55] we fix the system? Let's call back to
[01:21:57] previous earlier in the episode. We stop
[01:22:00] going past disagreements into character
[01:22:03] judgments.
[01:22:04] >> Just because we disagree doesn't mean
[01:22:06] that the person is a false prophet or a
[01:22:08] Satanist or a a planted asset from the
[01:22:11] government. We're so we're we're looking
[01:22:13] stupider and stupider by the minute cuz
[01:22:16] we don't need to identify someone as
[01:22:17] right or wrong. We just need to identify
[01:22:19] them as different.
[01:22:19] >> Yeah, it's diff I don't agree with that.
[01:22:21] So I'm I don't agree with what you're
[01:22:23] saying. I think that this is actually a
[01:22:24] different, you know, one of u
[01:22:28] one of the guys that I really respect,
[01:22:31] he runs a podcast and he's a pastor and
[01:22:33] we look at things different and I went
[01:22:36] out and did a podcast with him and we
[01:22:38] just got into it at dinner the night
[01:22:41] before and he was he's so he's confident
[01:22:45] and I'm confident so we're close enough
[01:22:46] to the same personality archetype that
[01:22:48] we're just like, you know, bulls
[01:22:51] tangling horns.
[01:22:53] And I was like, "Wow, I learned a lot
[01:22:55] from that." He's like, "Me too." And I
[01:22:57] looked over because I was at his house
[01:22:58] eating dinner and his wife was like
[01:23:00] looked a little scared.
[01:23:03] And I was like, "I'm Would you apologize
[01:23:06] to your wife for me for like doing
[01:23:08] that?" And he was like, "No, she's
[01:23:09] good." But we have me and him are the
[01:23:12] same personality. And so we learn by
[01:23:14] wrestling
[01:23:16] >> and t but that doesn't mean we're not in
[01:23:17] unity.
[01:23:18] >> Mhm. That means that we just disagree on
[01:23:20] one verse out of like hundreds of
[01:23:23] thousands of them. And there's no point
[01:23:27] to me being like, "Dude, you shouldn't
[01:23:29] be a pastor because you disagree with my
[01:23:30] interpretation of one verse. That's so
[01:23:32] stupid. That's what we do, though. And
[01:23:36] that's that's how we fix the system. If
[01:23:39] you want to do it, if you disagree with
[01:23:41] this the way that it's that the way that
[01:23:43] it's written and you disagree with the
[01:23:44] way that it should be done, you might
[01:23:46] have a different assignment." Oh, but
[01:23:48] we're both pastors. Well, that's bad
[01:23:50] teaching. That's just bad teaching and
[01:23:52] it's making you dumber. Just because you
[01:23:55] have the same office doesn't mean that
[01:23:56] Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg are the
[01:23:59] exact same humans and have the same
[01:24:00] personalities. Oh, but they have the
[01:24:02] same positions.
[01:24:04] Yeah, but we're not that dumb in the
[01:24:05] real world. Like, we don't do that. We
[01:24:06] only do that in church.
[01:24:09] They're both CEOs, but they're totally
[01:24:11] different. And and they argue and they
[01:24:15] disagree with each other and they want
[01:24:16] to fight. They want to go. They for a
[01:24:18] while they were going to do this
[01:24:19] Brazilian jiu-jitsu thing or something.
[01:24:21] >> Yeah. This like they just disagree and
[01:24:22] then now they're fine, you know, just
[01:24:24] just dudes just move on. But you have
[01:24:26] two prophets do different assignments,
[01:24:29] different vocational functions
[01:24:32] >> because you're in different parts of the
[01:24:33] world.
[01:24:34] >> We should stop fighting with each other
[01:24:36] and trying to say that that person
[01:24:37] disagrees because they're wrong or
[01:24:39] they're a bad person. That would fix
[01:24:41] most of our issues. I think I think that
[01:24:42] would fix most of our issues. Okay, last
[01:24:44] question before we get into the This is
[01:24:47] longest intro ever, dude. This isn't
[01:24:49] even an intro, bro. This is like This is
[01:24:52] the It all goes together. This is not an
[01:24:54] intro. So, what would your What's your
[01:24:57] advice to me personally around like what
[01:25:00] does Jake do with the five-fold stuff?
[01:25:01] If you're saying it's kind of a blend,
[01:25:03] like how much do I prioritize like what
[01:25:06] the office is? Like, am I old enough for
[01:25:08] it? Like, how do what does Jake do with
[01:25:11] it or how does Jake see it? Like what
[01:25:14] what does it mean to me? What
[01:25:15] >> Okay, let me ask you a question.
[01:25:16] >> Yeah.
[01:25:17] >> What's your on paper official title for
[01:25:20] the deep end?
[01:25:21] >> Producer.
[01:25:22] >> Okay. Do you do more than most
[01:25:24] producers?
[01:25:25] >> Yes.
[01:25:26] >> How much sleep have you lost or how much
[01:25:29] intellectual bandwidth have you invested
[01:25:32] into trying to reconcile and rectify the
[01:25:34] fact that your paper title and your job
[01:25:37] function are slightly different? Zero.
[01:25:40] Why?
[01:25:42] Because the title can mean whatever you
[01:25:44] want on the inside of it. It can just
[01:25:46] but it just means the primary function
[01:25:48] at the end of the day is one thing and
[01:25:51] if I if everything else if anything else
[01:25:53] gets in the way of doing that then I
[01:25:54] failed. So however much time you've
[01:25:57] invested into solving that problem is
[01:25:59] the same amount of time that you should
[01:26:00] invest in trying to nail down the five
[01:26:02] offices. Wow. That's really good. It's
[01:26:05] really helpful. Keep them equal. Okay.
[01:26:07] For most of us it's going to be zero.
[01:26:09] For some of us who is like a hardcore
[01:26:12] teacher, it's just like you're just
[01:26:15] laboring over it. You can't figure it
[01:26:16] out. Well, it's because you're a
[01:26:17] teacher. You need to figure it out to
[01:26:18] teach it. But it doesn't matter. It
[01:26:19] matters for maybe your tribe. It's a
[01:26:21] codification, not something that we need
[01:26:23] to take on as a piece of an identity.
[01:26:25] >> Yeah. I don't think that Paul meant for
[01:26:28] that verse to blow up in 2025 and 2026
[01:26:31] is like us looking and being like,
[01:26:34] >> "What's your office? What's your
[01:26:35] office?" Yeah. I don't think he meant
[01:26:36] that. I think he was trying to organize
[01:26:39] people the same way that we would
[01:26:41] organize functions. To some you have the
[01:26:43] gift of of managing money. To some you
[01:26:46] have the gift of sales and to some you
[01:26:47] have the gift of marketing
[01:26:49] >> and to some you have the gift of of of
[01:26:52] leadership development. But that's the
[01:26:54] beauty of the organization is that it's
[01:26:56] one body but many parts and he's
[01:26:58] literally just rattling off. Here's how
[01:27:01] to place everything. And now we're just
[01:27:04] hyperfixating on like what does an
[01:27:06] apostle do?
[01:27:07] >> Right. Right.
[01:27:08] >> Well, I don't know that it matters that
[01:27:11] much to be honest.
[01:27:12] >> You said something yesterday that stuck
[01:27:13] with me. You were like, basically, you
[01:27:16] were like, I just don't care if you call
[01:27:17] yourself an apostle. Cuz we had to, this
[01:27:19] is the second time we're recording this
[01:27:20] episode. But the first time we recorded,
[01:27:22] you were like, I don't care if you're an
[01:27:24] apostle. If I don't see Jesus in your
[01:27:26] eyes, I don't really have a lot of
[01:27:27] respect for you, basically. Which I'm
[01:27:30] not going to
[01:27:31] >> Yeah. Like you can make you can make a
[01:27:33] dead man stand up and a a real like
[01:27:38] apostolic type function
[01:27:41] is not going to be like oh my god you
[01:27:44] must be like you must have the the
[01:27:47] manifestation gift of healing. It's
[01:27:48] going to be like where which god are you
[01:27:51] getting that power from? And this is why
[01:27:54] maybe the Bereans topic might be uh
[01:27:57] relevant. But
[01:27:59] Paul did not Paul did not validate a
[01:28:02] person based on their gift or based on
[01:28:05] their miracles or based on whether they
[01:28:09] did something that was impossible or
[01:28:10] not. He didn't put people into these
[01:28:12] different things based on what he saw
[01:28:13] with his eyes. And you can tell because
[01:28:16] so he goes to this in Acts, I think it's
[01:28:18] Acts 12 or 13, which we were talking
[01:28:20] about yesterday. He goes to this
[01:28:22] governor and next to the governor is a
[01:28:24] prophet or a sorcerer. They're the same
[01:28:26] thing. So the the old worlds had
[01:28:28] prophets and sorcerers as one.
[01:28:32] >> Prophet's just a term. Okay. It's it's
[01:28:35] just a word
[01:28:36] >> almost like saying uh like a mystic
[01:28:38] these days like you've got
[01:28:40] >> or an oracle or a sage or like whatever
[01:28:43] >> because they had the oracle lid and they
[01:28:45] had the oracles who saw the future and
[01:28:46] then prophets were seeing the future and
[01:28:49] and so and then you also have uh you
[01:28:52] have prophets that are exhortation
[01:28:53] prophets that are not predicting the
[01:28:55] future but it's words of knowledge to
[01:28:56] help certain people. So, it's just a
[01:28:58] category of a term. And so, this this
[01:29:01] governor has a prophet or a sorcerer
[01:29:03] standing next to him.
[01:29:06] That'll break your religion box, too,
[01:29:08] because uh like
[01:29:12] what is sorcery? But anyways, we can't
[01:29:15] go there.
[01:29:15] >> Oh, boy. Um so, he goes to this governor
[01:29:19] and did not get the guy's name. His the
[01:29:22] name he had chosen for himself for his
[01:29:24] title, not his real name. Psychamus was
[01:29:26] his real name. But his title he had
[01:29:28] taken for himself was bar Jesus. Son of
[01:29:30] Jesus. And Paul looks at him and says,
[01:29:32] "You're not a son of Jesus. You're a son
[01:29:34] of the devil."
[01:29:37] Very subtle. You're going to go blind.
[01:29:40] Dude goes blind. Everybody gets saved.
[01:29:41] So Paul's not going, "Wow,
[01:29:46] you're a prophet.
[01:29:49] Would you like to go with me and we can
[01:29:51] prophesy over a bunch of people?
[01:29:54] I would like to credentialize you as a
[01:29:56] prophet. He says, "You are a prophet,
[01:29:58] but you're getting your gift from Satan.
[01:30:02] You're going to go blind." Then he has
[01:30:04] another example where this woman who was
[01:30:07] an oracle prophet,
[01:30:10] he's just attracting all the prophets
[01:30:12] and and she's like prophesying a lot of
[01:30:16] really good things over him.
[01:30:20] Can I pause on this and go deeper?
[01:30:22] >> Yeah.
[01:30:24] How do we tell whether somebody is
[01:30:26] prophetic
[01:30:28] or not in today's day and age?
[01:30:31] >> When you say prophetic, do you just mean
[01:30:33] they can predict the future or they're a
[01:30:34] prophet of God?
[01:30:36] >> Just one prophetic cuz most people
[01:30:39] aren't there.
[01:30:40] >> Probably just what they say comes to
[01:30:42] pass and it's multiple times, right? If
[01:30:46] you're saying fruit, validation,
[01:30:47] manifestation of the truth, like
[01:30:50] I would imagine you'd see something.
[01:30:52] Let's say that I go up to you and you're
[01:30:54] having a rough day. Maybe money is
[01:30:56] tight. I would fix one thing about what
[01:30:57] I just said, though. Okay, that's not
[01:30:59] necessarily true because there are
[01:31:00] definitely plenty of prophets, even
[01:31:02] historically that prophesied things that
[01:31:04] didn't come to pass for hundreds, if not
[01:31:05] thousands of years later or ever. So,
[01:31:07] that's actually not a completely true
[01:31:08] definition. Anyway, it's not I'm glad
[01:31:10] you caught that. Let's say you're having
[01:31:12] a rough day
[01:31:13] >> and finances are tight and some random
[01:31:15] person comes up to you and said, "The
[01:31:16] Lord told me that
[01:31:21] I need to give you $1,000."
[01:31:23] Yeah.
[01:31:26] Most likely, most people would be like,
[01:31:28] "Oh my god, you are so prophetic." M
[01:31:33] let's say you're having a rough day and
[01:31:36] finances are tight and somebody comes up
[01:31:38] to you and said, "The Lord said
[01:31:41] that you're supposed to give me $1,000."
[01:31:45] What would we say? Let me go check with
[01:31:47] God first. Or we would just straight up
[01:31:49] be like, "You're a false prophet."
[01:31:52] H.
[01:31:54] So, if we're being honest, most of us
[01:31:57] judge whether someone's a prophet by
[01:31:59] whether we like what they say or not.
[01:32:05] Mhm. I already tell you're going to clip
[01:32:07] this thing up, man, and get me haters.
[01:32:11] So, this is where Paul deviates and he
[01:32:13] sets a really good example because he's
[01:32:14] being prophesied. The things are being
[01:32:16] prophesied over him that he that are
[01:32:18] that are good that he would that you
[01:32:19] would like. If somebody came up to you
[01:32:21] and was like, "The Lord told me that you
[01:32:23] are a man of God and you are a prophet
[01:32:26] of the most high." You'd be like, "Wow,
[01:32:28] I think you are a prophet. I agree with
[01:32:30] you."
[01:32:33] >> If I don't know the voice of Holy
[01:32:34] Spirit, well,
[01:32:35] >> if you don't if you don't have the
[01:32:36] discernment of spirits, which is a which
[01:32:38] is a gift, it's a manifestation gift. Or
[01:32:42] if you don't know how Holy Spirit sounds
[01:32:44] and he doesn't talk to you or you don't
[01:32:45] know how to listen. But what Paul does
[01:32:47] is he goes, "What's wrong with this
[01:32:50] person? I don't
[01:32:52] It's true, but the spirit's wrong.
[01:32:55] Something's wrong here." And he gets
[01:32:57] annoyed. He's like, "Come out of her."
[01:32:58] He figures it out at some point. He just
[01:33:00] kind of snaps and figures it out. This
[01:33:02] person's an oracle. They're an oracle
[01:33:04] and they're getting they're getting
[01:33:05] wisdom from some satanic principality or
[01:33:09] something. And it turns out to be it is
[01:33:10] linked to Python because Pythona Pythona
[01:33:15] spirit is the spirit of the oracle which
[01:33:17] is the spirit of false prophecy today.
[01:33:20] So yeah you take two people both of them
[01:33:22] are seeing the future accurately. Both
[01:33:25] of them are predicting the future
[01:33:26] accurately. One of them they're getting
[01:33:29] prophecy from the spirit of Lelon and
[01:33:31] the other is getting prophecy from the
[01:33:32] spirit of Python.
[01:33:34] And they're not both to be invited in.
[01:33:37] Well, how do you do that? What are we
[01:33:39] going to convince the lies on? You know,
[01:33:41] like did their prophecy come true?
[01:33:43] Maybe. Do I like what they said? That's
[01:33:45] even worse. No, it's got to be like
[01:33:47] God's got to sort of give you wisdom.
[01:33:51] You know what I just realized? You're
[01:33:53] having so many epiphanies today.
[01:33:55] Paul had to write so much behavior
[01:33:57] modification because it was probably so
[01:33:59] freaking implied that you were supposed
[01:34:02] to pray and be close to the Holy Spirit
[01:34:04] that Paul had to focus so much on
[01:34:05] behavior modification versus telling
[01:34:07] people to talk to God because maybe he
[01:34:08] thought it was obvious.
[01:34:10] >> Yeah, he did probably. I think he
[01:34:12] didn't. That's why he sort of bragged
[01:34:13] about it.
[01:34:17] >> So when you talk about on the show, how
[01:34:18] do you live your life without the Holy
[01:34:19] Spirit? Like no duh. Like how do you
[01:34:21] survive? It's like well you're gonna get
[01:34:23] eaten alive. That's how you do it. If
[01:34:25] you don't have that, you're going to
[01:34:26] eaten alive.
[01:34:27] >> Yeah.
[01:34:30] >> Yeah.
[01:34:30] >> Okay.
[01:34:32] So, basically, get to know the voice of
[01:34:34] God.
[01:34:35] >> Yeah.
[01:34:36] >> Like,
[01:34:37] >> that's it.
[01:34:38] >> That's it.
[01:34:40] >> That's what we Yeah.
[01:34:43] >> Every single thing I feel like I've ever
[01:34:45] spoken about on the show is worthless if
[01:34:48] you can't hear the voice of God. Which
[01:34:49] is why I'm pushing everyone to like go
[01:34:51] pray about it. you have an episode on
[01:34:53] it. You've talked about it more. Okay.
[01:34:56] So, with that being said,
[01:34:59] the biggest thing is
[01:35:01] you don't even you can when it comes to
[01:35:04] the tribe stuff, you I know you're going
[01:35:05] to give some preface to that, but like
[01:35:07] the biggest thing is like just let don't
[01:35:10] have part of the fivefold become part of
[01:35:12] your necessarily your identity. No, cuz
[01:35:15] there's not even five of them. There's
[01:35:17] more. Sure. Okay. There's more than
[01:35:19] five. Okay. Like Yeah. He's just he's
[01:35:23] literally just writing it so people will
[01:35:25] like go into their lanes and be and be
[01:35:27] leave other people alone and just sit in
[01:35:29] their function. There's not just people
[01:35:31] are like even seven mercy gifts. No,
[01:35:34] there's way more than that.
[01:35:36] >> Eight manifestation gifts, whatever. No,
[01:35:38] there's way more than that. First
[01:35:39] Corinthians, he's basically like there's
[01:35:40] a variety of gifts. It's all the same
[01:35:41] spirit. Here are are some of them. And
[01:35:44] he rattles them off. And thousands of
[01:35:45] years later, we're like there's only
[01:35:47] six. No, that's just the ones that he
[01:35:50] got to. There's way more. He's said
[01:35:51] there are varieties of gifts, but it's
[01:35:54] all the same spirit. Here are a couple.
[01:35:57] That's the context of how he's writing
[01:35:59] it. Okay. But 12 is 12 because 12 is a
[01:36:03] government number.
[01:36:05] And so these there's got to be a little
[01:36:07] bit more weight placed on this because
[01:36:08] it's more structural. Okay. Got it.
[01:36:11] So, you want to go into tribes and stuff
[01:36:13] because there are different
[01:36:15] >> tribes that you feel like everyone fits
[01:36:17] into in terms of just naturally how
[01:36:19] their character fits in and people will
[01:36:21] kind of hear them and go,
[01:36:23] >> "Oh, yeah, that's probably me. That is
[01:36:25] one of my strengths. Oh, I could see
[01:36:26] that's how my one of my weaknesses so
[01:36:28] that
[01:36:29] they can just figure out like how to let
[01:36:31] God almost essentially be like, "Hey,
[01:36:33] God, these are the things I need to
[01:36:34] submit to you to work on
[01:36:36] >> that." And this is where I know I'm
[01:36:37] probably I'm heightened. I have to have
[01:36:40] heightened awareness over this thing
[01:36:41] >> because this is this is where my natural
[01:36:44] default. So when when people think about
[01:36:47] >> like temptation temptation most of our
[01:36:50] temptation is coming from inside of us.
[01:36:52] We have a predisposition to it.
[01:36:54] >> Most temptation is not external. It's
[01:36:56] internal.
[01:36:58] >> Gotcha.
[01:36:59] >> Yeah. Okay. Like dude, if I if I see um
[01:37:02] if if if someone is like on the side of
[01:37:05] the street offering me like meth, I
[01:37:08] don't I don't feel any sort of
[01:37:10] temptation for that at all.
[01:37:12] >> Sure. Same. Um if somebody is like
[01:37:16] dancing around in front of me and trying
[01:37:19] to be like seductive, I don't really
[01:37:22] respond to that. I'm not I don't have a
[01:37:26] strong predisposition to
[01:37:30] >> not really.
[01:37:31] >> Okay.
[01:37:32] >> Lust over the flesh.
[01:37:34] >> No. If you dangle power in front of me,
[01:37:39] >> lust
[01:37:41] >> for that. Wow. Interesting. That's my
[01:37:43] predisposition. Okay.
[01:37:46] Do you feel like it's important to hit
[01:37:48] like how you discovered this, like how
[01:37:49] you learned it, like or do you feel like
[01:37:51] it just you just want to go like
[01:37:52] straight into it? People should already
[01:37:54] sort of know like unless you have zero
[01:37:56] self-awareness and you've never thought
[01:37:58] about it, but maybe you should sit and
[01:37:59] think about it and
[01:38:00] >> about what
[01:38:00] >> about what do you struggle with? I'm
[01:38:02] going to give you a long list of of
[01:38:03] things you could also do.
[01:38:05] >> I'm asking how you discovered the tri 12
[01:38:06] tribes and how they relate to people.
[01:38:08] >> Oh yeah.
[01:38:10] >> We have time to go into that or
[01:38:11] >> I would say if you feel like it's
[01:38:13] important because it's pretty new like
[01:38:16] it's interesting to know like how you
[01:38:17] even got there. I will say this, I study
[01:38:20] a lot, dude. I could not find very much
[01:38:22] on this. So, I couldn't find I could not
[01:38:25] find a lot of resources on on someone
[01:38:28] breaking down the 12 tribes from an
[01:38:30] archetypical standpoint, even though
[01:38:32] that's the main way the Bible explains
[01:38:34] them.
[01:38:36] And I was very confused why no one's
[01:38:39] done it.
[01:38:41] >> Just like Alter's episodes.
[01:38:43] >> Yeah, I'm sure somebody's done it. I I
[01:38:44] guarantee you somebody's done it. It's
[01:38:46] just on a tape. It's on a cassette tape
[01:38:48] somewhere or it's like but I couldn't
[01:38:50] find it like I couldn't find it on
[01:38:51] YouTube. I couldn't find any books on
[01:38:53] it. Uh what I do have is a lot of
[01:38:55] scripture from it and I have like what
[01:38:59] Holy Spirit has told me about my
[01:39:02] predispositions that I sort of was able
[01:39:05] to expand out to include the others cuz
[01:39:08] you have the 12 tribes and then you have
[01:39:10] their offspring
[01:39:12] >> and the Bible's sort of it's tracking
[01:39:14] their offspring through history. But how
[01:39:16] did you know attracted back to a tribe?
[01:39:18] Where where did they come from? I just
[01:39:21] assumed that when the Bible says that
[01:39:24] David is from the the tribe of Judah,
[01:39:29] where else where else would we go to
[01:39:31] find out about the tribe of Judah?
[01:39:32] >> I'm just saying I think you might need
[01:39:33] to share the wolf the wolf cloak thing.
[01:39:35] So
[01:39:35] >> yeah. Okay.
[01:39:36] >> Cuz I'm people are like, well, how the
[01:39:38] heck did somebody draw? This is why
[01:39:40] people are like, how does Taylor Welch
[01:39:41] study? cuz the no one in the freaking
[01:39:42] world is going to go, "Man, how did God
[01:39:44] make me let me study the 12 tribes?"
[01:39:46] Like,
[01:39:47] >> yeah, got it.
[01:39:48] >> You didn't even do that.
[01:39:49] >> I didn't do that. That is that is not
[01:39:51] what happened. What happened is what had
[01:39:53] happened was someone invited me to a
[01:39:56] prayer group with a bunch of guys, which
[01:39:59] is my worst case scenario.
[01:40:01] >> People? Yeah.
[01:40:04] And a bunch of guys like being
[01:40:06] vulnerable.
[01:40:08] I'm like not about that at all. I don't
[01:40:10] like that. I just I'm not into that. Um
[01:40:13] I'm vulnerable with my wife and I'm
[01:40:15] vulnerable I somehow I've figured out
[01:40:18] how to be vulnerable with all of these
[01:40:19] people but not with like sitting in a
[01:40:21] room with a bunch of dudes. It's not my
[01:40:23] thing. So I finally went because I
[01:40:26] because Lindsay was like I think God
[01:40:27] wants you to go. And I was like okay
[01:40:28] I'll go. So I went to this thing and it
[01:40:30] was really good and they prayed over me
[01:40:31] and it was awesome. But one of the guys
[01:40:33] there, I sort of know him and I he's
[01:40:35] super prophetic
[01:40:37] and he just has a really good hit rate
[01:40:40] and I I feel the pleasure of the Holy
[01:40:42] Spirit when I'm around him. So notice
[01:40:44] it's not about the hit rate. I'm not but
[01:40:46] that is a part of it.
[01:40:48] >> He does have a hit rate but more than
[01:40:50] anything else I felt the peace and the
[01:40:51] joy of the Lord when I was around him.
[01:40:54] So he's certified to me. if God feels
[01:40:57] joy and peace, which is like a safety
[01:41:01] thing, then I'm going to listen to him.
[01:41:03] And so he asked me after the prayer
[01:41:05] thing, he's like, "Hey, have you ever
[01:41:06] dealt with uh like old Native American
[01:41:10] sorcery type stuff?" It's like, "No."
[01:41:14] It's like, "Does the the imagery of
[01:41:17] Native American bring anything up to
[01:41:19] you? Does it mean anything to you?"
[01:41:22] Um,
[01:41:24] and I was like, I mean, I'm I'm part I
[01:41:26] have Native American
[01:41:29] blood because of my dad and grandfather,
[01:41:31] great-grandfather and great
[01:41:32] great-grandfather was tied back to
[01:41:33] Cherokee Indian, but no, not really.
[01:41:37] He's like, "Did you ever practice
[01:41:38] sorcery or witchcraft or talking to
[01:41:41] spirits?" I was like, "Bro, what are you
[01:41:43] talking to?
[01:41:44] >> What do you get?" Cuz that's
[01:41:46] >> that feels weird. I'm like, "What do you
[01:41:48] see?" Like I don't want to
[01:41:51] if if Blake Healey came in and was
[01:41:54] looking around and was like, "Dude, have
[01:41:55] you like been
[01:41:57] Have you been talking to the dead?" I'd
[01:41:58] be freaked out, you know? I'd be a
[01:42:01] little bit weirded out by that.
[01:42:02] >> Yeah.
[01:42:02] >> So, I'm kind of like, "What do you see?
[01:42:04] I can you just skip to the point where
[01:42:05] it matters to me cuz I don't I don't
[01:42:07] this whole like
[01:42:09] >> I don't understand." And he said, "I see
[01:42:11] a giant wolf head over your head."
[01:42:13] >> And wolves are typically not good, but I
[01:42:16] don't sense that it's necessarily bad.
[01:42:18] Mhm.
[01:42:18] >> I just trying to figure out what it
[01:42:20] means and I don't have that intelligence
[01:42:21] right now. So maybe go ask the Lord
[01:42:24] about what this means. So I was like,
[01:42:26] "Okay." So the next morning
[01:42:30] I was praying about it and I felt the
[01:42:33] Holy Spirit be like,
[01:42:36] "It's not a big deal. It could hurt you,
[01:42:40] but it could also help you."
[01:42:43] And that's what he told me. And I didn't
[01:42:45] get this like voice of the Lord or
[01:42:47] anything like that. But then I called
[01:42:48] another one of my friends. This is
[01:42:50] sometimes how it works. You get one
[01:42:52] little hint and then you have to sort of
[01:42:54] go seek the Lord and then God will point
[01:42:55] you to other people. And so this this
[01:42:58] person's name came to my mind. And I was
[01:43:00] in a prayer session. So I was like, I
[01:43:02] think that this might be the Lord
[01:43:03] wanting me to call this person. So, I
[01:43:04] called this other person who's like
[01:43:08] hardcore prophetic, but also like
[01:43:11] revivalist and intense and kind of
[01:43:13] insane, but I've known him for a while.
[01:43:16] And so, I called him and I said, "Hey,
[01:43:17] does the
[01:43:19] does the wolf have anything to do with
[01:43:22] me?" He said, "Oh, yeah. You're from the
[01:43:24] tribe of Benjamin."
[01:43:26] I said, "What? What does that mean?" And
[01:43:28] he's like, "Yeah, you have a you have a
[01:43:30] high percentage of Benjamite
[01:43:32] bloodline archetype." How do you know
[01:43:34] that? How do you know that? He's like,
[01:43:36] "As soon as I walked in, I saw it and I
[01:43:38] felt it." And you've also got this. And
[01:43:41] And so he and I was like, "Okay, well, I
[01:43:42] need to go study." So
[01:43:43] >> he's saying like your personality traits
[01:43:44] resemble that of someone from the tribe
[01:43:46] of Benjamin back in the Old Testament.
[01:43:47] >> No, he's crazy. He didn't say that. He
[01:43:49] He doesn't He didn't
[01:43:50] >> He thinks like you have Benjamite in
[01:43:51] your physical blood. He was saying like
[01:43:53] you literally have a Benjamite bloodline
[01:43:56] that I can that he's like you can track
[01:43:57] it back.
[01:43:58] >> I saw No. No, you can't. Not in the
[01:44:00] natural.
[01:44:01] >> Okay. Yes.
[01:44:02] >> Not in the natural.
[01:44:02] >> Yes. Okay.
[01:44:03] >> But in the whatever he was,
[01:44:05] >> he said he saw it in the in the spirit.
[01:44:06] And so I was like, "Okay, well, okay."
[01:44:08] >> Mhm.
[01:44:09] >> So I go back and I start studying and it
[01:44:10] says, "Yeah, the two the tribe of
[01:44:11] Benjamin you are as a ravenous wolf."
[01:44:14] >> And said, "Okay, that makes sense." So,
[01:44:16] I call one of my other mentors who's
[01:44:18] actually on our on my board for like
[01:44:20] making sure that we don't get
[01:44:21] >> your own accountability.
[01:44:22] >> Yeah. Like, make sure I don't say
[01:44:23] anything stupid and publish it on the
[01:44:25] internet.
[01:44:25] >> And if you do, they talk to you about it
[01:44:26] >> and they correct me and then I fix it.
[01:44:28] And I got a ton of accountability. If I
[01:44:30] wanted to destroy someone's life, I
[01:44:32] would I would try to give them more
[01:44:34] influence than accountability.
[01:44:36] >> I'm never going there.
[01:44:38] >> I'm never going there.
[01:44:40] >> So, my accountability will need to stay
[01:44:42] ahead or in lock step with my influence.
[01:44:44] And so the more we grow, the more I kind
[01:44:46] of just make sure like I'm submitted to
[01:44:50] different things in people.
[01:44:51] >> Sure.
[01:44:51] >> So I called this other guy who's on my
[01:44:53] board and he he he said, "Yeah, that
[01:44:55] checks out. I'm feeling confirmation
[01:44:58] about that." And I think that what the
[01:45:01] what Holy Spirit was telling you is it
[01:45:02] can be good or bad is because a ravenous
[01:45:04] wolf can both be good or bad. So you
[01:45:06] might want to go study what Benjamin did
[01:45:08] wrong. What happened in his what
[01:45:10] happened in the offspring of Benjamin?
[01:45:11] Because it'll give you a picture. And so
[01:45:13] notice even this one example has one guy
[01:45:17] who's prophetic, me getting it sort of
[01:45:19] confirmed by the Holy Spirit and then
[01:45:21] him sending me to some person. So I call
[01:45:23] that person, he confirms it, but he's a
[01:45:25] little wild with it. And then I needed
[01:45:28] that fact checked. So I called someone
[01:45:30] who I know can hear from the Lord as
[01:45:31] well. And I'm I'm using the body.
[01:45:34] >> Mhm.
[01:45:35] >> I'm using the different tribes
[01:45:37] without knowing that I'm using the
[01:45:38] different tribes.
[01:45:39] >> Yeah. I'm using the body of Christ to
[01:45:41] make sure that I'm not just on an island
[01:45:44] alone by myself
[01:45:46] um making stuff up.
[01:45:48] >> So then I started studying and you have
[01:45:51] uh all these people who do different
[01:45:52] things and it comes from Genesis 49
[01:45:56] but then you see it later. You see it in
[01:45:57] 1 Chronicles, you see it in Judges. Um
[01:46:00] you see it in 1 Samuel. You see it in
[01:46:02] the New Testament because Jesus was from
[01:46:04] the tribe of the line of Judah, but he
[01:46:06] was also sort of he he predates the
[01:46:08] tribes as well because of Melkisedc.
[01:46:11] >> Oh yeah. So he's this everything's like
[01:46:14] an im imagery
[01:46:16] overload when you start reading the
[01:46:17] Bible and you really make it connect
[01:46:19] itself. You've got
[01:46:21] the alpha and the omega and then you
[01:46:24] have in the beginning was the word and
[01:46:26] the word was with God and the word was
[01:46:27] God and the word made flesh, put on
[01:46:29] flesh and dwelt among us. And so you see
[01:46:31] the same you see a microcosm of the
[01:46:33] macro text in Jesus's life.
[01:46:35] >> M
[01:46:36] >> anyways that's a different episode.
[01:46:38] That's how I started studying and this
[01:46:40] was 6 months ago. Okay.
[01:46:42] >> This was a long time ago to me.
[01:46:44] >> Got it. It's a long time. So I've had a
[01:46:45] lot of time to flesh this out and sort
[01:46:47] of try to pray about it and figure out
[01:46:51] what's going on. And essentially what it
[01:46:53] is is it will give if if you're going to
[01:46:56] fall,
[01:46:58] you're likely going to fall to a
[01:47:00] predisposition you have from the
[01:47:01] archetype that your personality fits
[01:47:03] into. Layman's terms. Say that again.
[01:47:07] If you're going to fall
[01:47:10] or fail,
[01:47:12] it's going to be connected
[01:47:15] to the archetype that you belong to.
[01:47:21] Is that more simple?
[01:47:22] >> Change the word archetype.
[01:47:24] >> Okay. Uh, have you ever done a
[01:47:26] personality test?
[01:47:27] >> Yes.
[01:47:28] >> Okay. So, you What inagram are you?
[01:47:30] >> Eight.
[01:47:30] >> Okay.
[01:47:31] >> Unfortunately, that you don't agree
[01:47:32] with.
[01:47:33] >> I don't care anymore. If you're an
[01:47:36] eight, it gives you a unhealthy eight
[01:47:38] and a healthy eight. Yes.
[01:47:40] >> Yep.
[01:47:41] >> So, you have a you have strengths and
[01:47:43] you have shadows, not weaknesses, but
[01:47:46] shadows. The inverse of those strengths.
[01:47:48] >> Yep. which can hurt you.
[01:47:51] >> And so if you know your personality,
[01:47:54] MyersBriggs, I'm an INTJ. Do you know
[01:47:56] what you are?
[01:47:58] >> Uh I think the last time I took it was
[01:48:00] uh I used to be an ENFJ and then it
[01:48:02] switched to an INFJ.
[01:48:04] >> Okay.
[01:48:04] >> But I don't know what I am now. It's
[01:48:06] been
[01:48:06] >> Okay. MyersBriggs, if you go really deep
[01:48:08] into these
[01:48:10] uh personality types, what you have is
[01:48:12] you have things that an INTJ is really
[01:48:15] good at, but you have ways that they can
[01:48:17] misuse that and they can fall because of
[01:48:19] that.
[01:48:19] >> Y
[01:48:20] >> but I don't want this to become you also
[01:48:22] have like okay stag
[01:48:25] >> human design which comes from astrology.
[01:48:28] >> Um
[01:48:29] is astrology real? Is it not real? Yeah,
[01:48:33] it's totally real. It's legit and it's
[01:48:35] 100% legit, but it's being used and it's
[01:48:38] often used
[01:48:40] for the wrong things apart from the
[01:48:42] source and so really can trap you. I
[01:48:45] don't want you to do that with Inagram
[01:48:47] just because or MyersBriggs did. You can
[01:48:50] take the disc personality and you're
[01:48:52] using it the way that newagers use
[01:48:54] astrology, but you think it's not bad
[01:48:55] cuz it's not the moon.
[01:48:59] Personally, I think astrology is kind of
[01:49:00] funny cuz I'll walk into a room and
[01:49:01] people like, "What sign are you?" And
[01:49:03] I'm like, I'm a Leo. Not knowing which
[01:49:04] one I am. They're like, that makes total
[01:49:06] sense. I'm like, I'm like, no, no.
[01:49:09] Actually, I'm just I was in mess with
[01:49:10] me. I'm a Taurus. They're like, I
[01:49:11] actually suspected that. And then the
[01:49:12] other ones you do it one more time. And
[01:49:14] they're like, oh, that makes so much
[01:49:15] sense now. And then I'm like, just
[01:49:17] kidding, guys. I was born in January.
[01:49:18] I'm an Aquarius. And they're like, what?
[01:49:20] That makes so much sense. Like,
[01:49:23] >> not once has it ever ever made sense.
[01:49:26] They're like, you have a passion for
[01:49:27] music. I'm like, I know the people who
[01:49:29] are the least musically inclined and
[01:49:32] they're like, I've always considered it,
[01:49:34] man. And
[01:49:35] >> you are an eight, dude.
[01:49:36] >> I know
[01:49:36] >> you are an aid.
[01:49:37] >> I know. When it comes out, it comes out.
[01:49:39] >> You're also a terrorist.
[01:49:40] >> I know,
[01:49:41] >> right? You're terrorizing these people.
[01:49:43] >> I have tested it. It's just kind of
[01:49:44] funny to me. Okay. I'm I Trust me, I
[01:49:47] have questions for you that I've asked
[01:49:49] you behind the scenes that I want to
[01:49:50] know about astrology. I hope we talk
[01:49:52] about it cuz you said it came from
[01:49:53] Abraham. I'm just saying the horoscopes
[01:49:55] and stuff right now is kind of funny to
[01:49:57] me personally is all I'm saying.
[01:50:00] >> It is. It is funny. It's just as funny
[01:50:02] as using the MyersBriggs to determine
[01:50:04] what your destiny is.
[01:50:05] >> Sure. Okay.
[01:50:06] >> It's all funny.
[01:50:07] >> Point taken.
[01:50:08] >> It's all funny.
[01:50:09] >> But there's legitimacy to different
[01:50:10] things. But when you use it to replace
[01:50:12] God for the maker of like your
[01:50:14] decisions, that's the problem. So, I
[01:50:16] don't want people to turn this into like
[01:50:18] a the same because dude, astrology is
[01:50:21] not just bad because you're using the
[01:50:24] placement of the stars and moons.
[01:50:26] >> Yeah.
[01:50:27] >> Because the wise men were astrologers.
[01:50:30] >> Mhm.
[01:50:30] >> Who used the moon and they discovered
[01:50:32] Jesus. I mean, Abraham wasn't had an
[01:50:34] astrology background. So, it's not bad
[01:50:36] because you're using some It's bad
[01:50:37] because you if people replace God with
[01:50:39] it, but we do that with MyersBriggs and
[01:50:41] we do that with social media and we do
[01:50:43] So, we're all guilty of it. And you
[01:50:46] could be guilty of this. So, I'm going
[01:50:47] to give people I'm going to give us a
[01:50:49] rundown. What are the tribes? Who are
[01:50:52] they? What did they do? Where did they
[01:50:54] fall? There's a there's a strength that
[01:50:57] each of these personalities have. So, we
[01:50:59] just sum them up as personalities.
[01:51:01] That's an easy way to do it instead of
[01:51:03] using archetype. Archetype is a
[01:51:04] psychological word, but personality
[01:51:06] works as well. Strengths, there are
[01:51:09] shadows or weaknesses.
[01:51:11] And then there's when I in my study,
[01:51:16] there's a third category that shows up
[01:51:19] as a uh
[01:51:22] a practice or a presence of some
[01:51:25] ingredient that is going to make the
[01:51:28] person feel more in line or make them
[01:51:32] operate better. So we call it like a
[01:51:34] lubricant. Like if you take a if you
[01:51:36] take a vehicle, what's the lubricant in
[01:51:38] a vehicle?
[01:51:38] >> Oil.
[01:51:39] >> Oil. If you don't have any oil, does it
[01:51:42] cease to be a vehicle?
[01:51:43] >> No.
[01:51:44] >> Does it cease to function as a vehicle?
[01:51:47] >> No.
[01:51:47] >> No. But it has to expend and create more
[01:51:51] energy to do the same thing. And so it
[01:51:53] could blow up.
[01:51:54] >> Basic task becomes harder than it needs
[01:51:55] to.
[01:51:56] >> Yeah. That's bad. And it blows up. That
[01:51:57] we don't want to blow up.
[01:51:58] >> So what we do is we put a lubricant
[01:52:00] inside so that it can do its job
[01:52:03] smoother,
[01:52:05] more efficiently, more effortlessly. And
[01:52:07] we have the same things in a person's
[01:52:09] life based on your personality. There's
[01:52:11] different lubricants that it's like
[01:52:12] without this lubricant, without this
[01:52:14] thing,
[01:52:16] life feels harder than it should. And
[01:52:17] when you add this thing, it's not like
[01:52:19] your life is getting easier. It just
[01:52:20] feels better. It feels easier.
[01:52:22] Talking about like this is why like back
[01:52:24] in the day when we did sales, you were
[01:52:25] like you have to have hobbies.
[01:52:27] >> Yes.
[01:52:28] >> Yeah.
[01:52:28] >> Even though we kind of got punished for
[01:52:30] having hobbies, but yes, having hobbies
[01:52:31] made life easier.
[01:52:32] >> Okay. Well, from the past. There we go.
[01:52:34] I'm sorry.
[01:52:35] >> Let the trauma out of your body, bro.
[01:52:37] It's true. I'm I'm good now.
[01:52:38] >> Let it out. But okay, so basically when
[01:52:40] you have certain things for you, it
[01:52:44] makes other This is like um it's like
[01:52:46] John Bevere when he said like he noticed
[01:52:47] the most common thing among pastors that
[01:52:50] fell as he didn't have a hobby and so he
[01:52:52] just started getting pastors into
[01:52:53] playing golf. He was like just play
[01:52:56] golf. Like just get good at something
[01:52:57] outside of like being in church. Is that
[01:53:00] kind of what you're saying?
[01:53:00] >> Yeah. Nonvocational types of things that
[01:53:04] >> when you do them. So, I was having lunch
[01:53:06] with um with a pastor about eight months
[01:53:08] ago, and we were talking about music
[01:53:10] because I've started I've gotten back
[01:53:12] into music for myself. I've played at
[01:53:14] church forever since I was a baby
[01:53:16] basically, but for myself, by myself,
[01:53:19] with myself, and he's a Grammy
[01:53:22] award-winning, you know, songwriter. And
[01:53:24] so, we were talking about music. And I
[01:53:26] was like, I just feel better when I sit
[01:53:28] and play piano. And he was like, "Dude,
[01:53:32] it's crazy because it's one of those
[01:53:34] things where we feel like we don't have
[01:53:35] time to do that,
[01:53:37] but then when we don't take time to do
[01:53:40] that, we run out of time to do
[01:53:41] everything else."
[01:53:43] >> Then he probably said it, "You don't
[01:53:44] have time to not do it.
[01:53:45] >> You don't have time to not do it." I was
[01:53:46] like, "Oh my god, that makes so much
[01:53:47] sense. It's a lubricant. It's like this
[01:53:50] thing that makes me feel better."
[01:53:53] >> Mhm.
[01:53:53] >> About everything else. You're probably
[01:53:55] the exact same way.
[01:53:56] >> Mhm.
[01:53:57] >> Um
[01:53:58] >> Yeah. So, I'm going to give the shadows.
[01:54:01] I'm going to give the strength. I'm
[01:54:02] going to give the the the the lubricant,
[01:54:04] the thing that you need
[01:54:06] >> to function well if you belong to this
[01:54:08] personality. Now, you're not. The
[01:54:11] temptation is people be like, "Well, I'm
[01:54:13] all of these." You're definitely not all
[01:54:15] of them. I'm sorry. You're just not.
[01:54:17] There's no way you are. But you can also
[01:54:20] rotate through them. So, it's not
[01:54:23] everything in the Old Testament is
[01:54:24] locked linearly. Everything in the New
[01:54:27] Testament becomes unlocks.
[01:54:30] So you can rotate through these. So you
[01:54:32] can be in a season of your life where
[01:54:33] you're really resonating with one.
[01:54:35] >> It's okay. So what you probably need to
[01:54:37] do is you need to watch out for the
[01:54:38] shadows. You need to to lean into your
[01:54:41] strengths and you need to make sure that
[01:54:42] the lubricant is present. If you relate
[01:54:45] with it,
[01:54:45] >> got it.
[01:54:46] >> If you relate with everyone's strength,
[01:54:49] it means that you are probably a little
[01:54:52] bit immature in how you view yourself.
[01:54:55] M
[01:54:56] >> so look for the shadow and relate with
[01:54:58] the shadow.
[01:54:58] >> Yeah.
[01:54:59] >> Because to the degree that that you know
[01:55:01] self-inherent narcissism has been worked
[01:55:03] out of you, you won't relate with
[01:55:04] everyone's strengths anymore.
[01:55:06] >> So if you can't if you can't get
[01:55:08] yourself pinned in based on the
[01:55:09] strength, look for the shadow and the
[01:55:11] shadow can help you narrow it down.
[01:55:13] Okay, ready? Makes sense.
[01:55:14] >> Boom. Judah. This is the first one.
[01:55:16] >> Yeah.
[01:55:16] >> Judah
[01:55:18] um is where the Messiah comes from. It's
[01:55:20] the tribe of Judah.
[01:55:22] >> This worship song.
[01:55:25] D.
[01:55:27] Sing it. What is it? Is it a song called
[01:55:29] Days of Elijah? It's a song of the Lion
[01:55:32] of Judah. It's the Was it the the Lion
[01:55:35] of Judah? It's that song. Every time you
[01:55:38] say it, it's just stuck in my head.
[01:55:39] >> I just want you to keep singing.
[01:55:40] >> I forgot what it I can't That's all I
[01:55:42] can remember. Wait, there's a sound of
[01:55:43] the fear in the enemy's camp. You know
[01:55:45] what song I'm talking about?
[01:55:46] >> Nope.
[01:55:47] >> No.
[01:55:47] >> Nope.
[01:55:48] >> Oh my gosh. Wow. Well, I'm not going to
[01:55:50] keep singing it for copyright reasons,
[01:55:51] but you've never heard that? No,
[01:55:54] >> it's like an I think it's a bit of an
[01:55:55] oldie.
[01:55:56] >> Maybe it's cuz my friend Scott sent it
[01:55:57] to me. Maybe that's why.
[01:55:59] >> Scott, we love Scott. Okay. The the
[01:56:02] tribe of Judah. This is the lion. This
[01:56:05] is the call sign for Judah, the lion.
[01:56:07] >> Mhm.
[01:56:08] >> And the the strength for lion. So when
[01:56:11] you look at when you look at how Judah's
[01:56:15] treated,
[01:56:16] they are they are treated with um honor,
[01:56:20] courage, authority. They're typically
[01:56:22] going to be very good and built for like
[01:56:25] public burdenbearing
[01:56:27] office
[01:56:29] and so they're the ones organ I think
[01:56:31] they're organizational. I think they're
[01:56:33] um they're an organizational template
[01:56:35] for like you're kind of like a
[01:56:36] leadership function forward- facing and
[01:56:39] it's not all good because when you are
[01:56:43] built for public burdenbearing what are
[01:56:45] we what are we inferring
[01:56:48] leadership? typically a lot of
[01:56:50] sacrificial leadership involved in this.
[01:56:52] And so the tribe of Judah, they're going
[01:56:53] into Canaan. The tribe of Judah's kicked
[01:56:55] to the front, but who kicks them to the
[01:56:56] front? God does. They don't volunteer
[01:56:58] for it.
[01:56:59] >> Mhm.
[01:57:01] >> God says they're going to go to they're
[01:57:03] going to go to the front. You're like,
[01:57:04] what? That's where everyone dies. Yep.
[01:57:06] You're going to go to the front. So,
[01:57:07] it's it's burdenbearing
[01:57:10] uh leadership. At the same time, what's
[01:57:12] what's interesting about this this
[01:57:14] personality and this this people group
[01:57:17] is they tend to like lead conquests all
[01:57:19] the time. They're they're they're built
[01:57:22] for it. So, they have a fear, the shadow
[01:57:24] of of insignificance.
[01:57:27] They fear being insignificant.
[01:57:29] >> They fear loss of influence. They're
[01:57:34] tempted towards dominion. They're
[01:57:37] tempted towards vanity. They're tempted
[01:57:40] towards confusing
[01:57:42] visibility with obedience. So, we can
[01:57:45] all sort of see ourselves in this
[01:57:47] sphere. But some of us have it really
[01:57:49] hard, really hardcore. And you're and
[01:57:53] you can tell like the number one thing
[01:57:54] in your life that you're afraid of is
[01:57:57] being insignificant, dying,
[01:57:58] insignificant. And therefore, every time
[01:58:00] you get a taste of visibility, it is
[01:58:01] like the filling up of So, this is where
[01:58:04] you have to be careful. Sounds like
[01:58:06] control over and over and over keeps
[01:58:08] coming up in this episode. Like
[01:58:10] >> visibility more than control.
[01:58:13] >> It's not trying to control staying
[01:58:15] within visibility.
[01:58:16] >> It's No, that's a meta. That's super
[01:58:19] meta.
[01:58:20] >> Okay.
[01:58:21] >> So may maybe, but it's more if you're in
[01:58:25] if you if you're in front of people, you
[01:58:26] feel good about yourself. And if you're
[01:58:28] not, you don't.
[01:58:29] >> Okay.
[01:58:30] >> But why?
[01:58:31] For someone like me, it's it's likely
[01:58:33] because visibility equals security.
[01:58:38] >> So I that's control,
[01:58:40] >> right?
[01:58:41] >> But for somebody that's like true,
[01:58:43] they're like they're in this archetype
[01:58:44] hardcore visibility doesn't mean
[01:58:46] security. It means significance.
[01:58:48] >> Okay.
[01:58:49] >> Different motives are pointing them
[01:58:50] different ways.
[01:58:51] >> Got it.
[01:58:53] >> The lubricant for this personality is
[01:58:55] going to be responsibility and weight.
[01:58:57] So if you feel good when when heavy
[01:58:59] stuff is on your shoulders and you have
[01:59:00] a lot of responsibility,
[01:59:02] you come alive.
[01:59:05] When you don't have a lot of heavy
[01:59:07] weight on your shoulders,
[01:59:09] you I'm not I'm I'm insignificant.
[01:59:11] Nothing matters. I don't
[01:59:12] >> So these are like the people where it's
[01:59:13] like, man, just give them something to
[01:59:15] do and they like they're like they love
[01:59:17] to serve.
[01:59:17] >> Yeah. Give me something important. I
[01:59:19] want the ball at the fourth quarter at
[01:59:20] the very final five seconds. Like I want
[01:59:22] weight.
[01:59:23] >> I want to carry the team. Now it makes
[01:59:25] sense what you're saying earlier in the
[01:59:26] episode. If we've been looking at people
[01:59:27] the wrong way because if we assume
[01:59:29] everybody is just like us, then we
[01:59:32] create a bit of a problem. Yeah. What
[01:59:33] happens if you have a pastor, a prophet,
[01:59:35] evangelist, a teacher, and a possibly
[01:59:37] who are all lions?
[01:59:42] Is that possible?
[01:59:43] >> Oh yeah.
[01:59:43] >> Yeah. Okay. That still happen. Okay. Oh
[01:59:45] yeah. Okay.
[01:59:47] >> Heck yeah, dude. Like and they're all
[01:59:48] trying to steal the ball from each other
[01:59:50] at the exact same time. So, it's not a
[01:59:52] very good not only are they trying to
[01:59:54] steal the ball from each other, but they
[01:59:55] all think that the only way for them to
[01:59:56] reach the world is to run the biggest
[01:59:58] conferences that they can find because
[02:00:00] visibility, visibility, visibility,
[02:00:01] that's all that matters. And they all
[02:00:03] got all the blind spots of a typical
[02:00:07] >> typical Judah personality. Um, is there
[02:00:10] a duty and like while you're there like
[02:00:11] is there a duty and a responsibility to
[02:00:13] balance that out then? Like if you got
[02:00:14] >> So,
[02:00:15] >> okay. Cuz it's like if you got everybody
[02:00:16] who's concerned about visibility, it's
[02:00:18] not that visibility is bad, but if it's
[02:00:20] like visibility and then like the
[02:00:22] worship is performative and built for
[02:00:25] visibility, maybe that's a shadow thing,
[02:00:26] but like does what do you do with the
[02:00:29] responsibility to balance out? Like is
[02:00:31] it that you have accountability above
[02:00:33] you? Cuz like let's say let's say uh you
[02:00:35] and me were all the same like every
[02:00:37] single person in that deep end was the
[02:00:38] same.
[02:00:39] >> All Judas. Does that mean we just have a
[02:00:41] is it as simple as like we have a duty
[02:00:42] and responsibility have people above us
[02:00:44] that are maybe don't even have to be
[02:00:45] directly involved. It's just people
[02:00:47] above us that are not that way that can
[02:00:49] keep us focused and more balanced and
[02:00:50] well grounded. I don't think that'll
[02:00:52] work because if the top of the totem
[02:00:54] pole doesn't know how to organize a a a
[02:00:59] team according to their giftings and
[02:01:01] their identities cuz these these are
[02:01:04] kind of like you're talking about some
[02:01:05] identity level stuff.
[02:01:06] >> Yeah.
[02:01:07] >> Your identity organizes your fears. It
[02:01:09] organizes your passions. It organizes
[02:01:11] your weaknesses. It's that's we're not
[02:01:14] talking about identity. So, if you don't
[02:01:16] know how to staff something according to
[02:01:18] the identities of the people on you and
[02:01:19] you're just putting them into paper
[02:01:20] titles like the five-fold offices.
[02:01:24] >> Mhm.
[02:01:24] >> Then it's just you're you're not a good
[02:01:27] you don't understand how people work.
[02:01:29] >> Okay.
[02:01:30] >> And that's probably why like Yeah. You
[02:01:32] know, your church is probably not going
[02:01:33] to grow. your business is probably not
[02:01:35] going to grow or it'll grow and then
[02:01:36] disseminate and then it'll grow and then
[02:01:38] it'll self-destruct and it'll grow and
[02:01:39] you have this repeat cycle cuz you keep
[02:01:41] hiring people just like you. You're
[02:01:43] staffing everyone. You could have a
[02:01:45] pastor who's a lion
[02:01:48] and if somebody shows up who's not a
[02:01:49] lion, they don't think they're talented.
[02:01:52] Go for it. So they're just hiring people
[02:01:54] just like them.
[02:01:56] Oh,
[02:01:58] is that a problem? Is that a pretty big
[02:02:00] problem right now, do you think? In like
[02:02:02] >> Well, it's a problem in business. So I
[02:02:03] don't I haven't done I haven't done deep
[02:02:05] studies on church.
[02:02:07] Um but it's oh yeah that's a big problem
[02:02:09] in business but we have other tools in
[02:02:12] business that help us circumn this. Like
[02:02:15] we have we actually take we take my
[02:02:17] psychometrics seriously in business.
[02:02:19] >> Mhm.
[02:02:20] >> So I know my team based on the
[02:02:22] psychometric side and we're all
[02:02:23] different. We're all very different.
[02:02:25] >> But I would imagine it's a statement in
[02:02:26] church but this is a level deeper than
[02:02:28] just psychometrics because this is like
[02:02:30] heart level identity. Okay. what you
[02:02:32] relate with. I think it's a problem. Do
[02:02:33] you?
[02:02:35] >> I've definitely seen it for sure. But it
[02:02:37] also just explains more of what you said
[02:02:38] that at the beginning about the pastor
[02:02:39] that said uh the most important thing to
[02:02:41] him is loyalty because he assumes that
[02:02:42] everybody's just like him, which
[02:02:44] therefore if people are not just like
[02:02:46] him, they probably won't be loyal to him
[02:02:48] because that's what he would do. Well,
[02:02:49] we're going to get into that in a
[02:02:50] second, but that's not that is because
[02:02:52] of a of the of the personality he has
[02:02:55] that fits onto this list.
[02:02:57] >> Okay. Yeah. And not necessarily the
[02:02:59] bloodline. I don't know what his
[02:03:00] bloodline is and I don't care what his
[02:03:01] bloodline is, but that he fits into the
[02:03:03] archetypical personality of a Benjamite.
[02:03:07] Okay. The fall line here is usually
[02:03:10] going to be
[02:03:13] abuse of power
[02:03:15] and sexual immorality.
[02:03:18] Like David, David, when a Judah when a
[02:03:21] when a lion stops carrying weight,
[02:03:24] they'll consume what belongs to other
[02:03:26] people.
[02:03:29] There's so much raw firepower in this
[02:03:31] person
[02:03:33] >> that when when that lubricant is
[02:03:35] removed, that weight is removed
[02:03:38] >> then they start to use the power that
[02:03:40] they have in their personality to take
[02:03:42] from others.
[02:03:44] >> So cool.
[02:03:46] >> Not that that's a good thing.
[02:03:48] >> No, no, but it's really that is bad.
[02:03:50] >> No, it's very bad. But the actual
[02:03:52] understanding of like because I can't
[02:03:55] tell you how many times in my life I've
[02:03:57] just been like all I need is the
[02:03:59] presence of God and like worship
[02:04:00] wouldn't fix the problems that I was
[02:04:01] trying to fix. Not I don't relate with
[02:04:03] Judah. That's not what I relate with.
[02:04:05] But like just the um realization that
[02:04:09] like sometimes just sitting in the
[02:04:11] presence of God isn't fixing everything
[02:04:13] for me in the moment.
[02:04:14] >> Yeah.
[02:04:14] >> It convicts me and but I also have to do
[02:04:17] my life. I have to do things that he's
[02:04:19] asked me to do.
[02:04:20] >> Yeah. But that is fascinating to realize
[02:04:22] like no you probably are just you might
[02:04:24] be missing this like God's asked you to
[02:04:26] do this like you can find some way to
[02:04:27] bear this in some way even if it's
[02:04:29] small.
[02:04:30] >> Yeah. If you and if you are in this
[02:04:33] position, if you relate with this and
[02:04:36] you are being like convicted or you're
[02:04:38] starting to notice things, the
[02:04:40] temptation to
[02:04:42] just whether it's lust or whether it is
[02:04:46] um using your power to make yourself
[02:04:48] feel more significant.
[02:04:51] Just ratchet some weight up.
[02:04:54] M
[02:04:55] >> make some sac make some sacrificial
[02:04:57] leadership decisions and pay the price
[02:05:00] of your of your archetype
[02:05:02] >> and then that will start to go away.
[02:05:04] >> Yeah.
[02:05:05] >> Uh Levi the priest
[02:05:10] you remember these in the Bible.
[02:05:11] >> Mhm.
[02:05:13] >> What did they do? Uh from what I
[02:05:16] remember about Levis is their mainly
[02:05:19] main job was being a priest and taking
[02:05:21] care of the temple of God.
[02:05:23] >> Yeah. They did a they had like as far as
[02:05:25] I remember they had some of the most
[02:05:26] functions like they had a lot of diverse
[02:05:28] functions like some was music some was
[02:05:31] literally just I think one of them was
[02:05:33] like literally like kind of cleaning up
[02:05:34] the temple and just making sure like it
[02:05:35] looked nice like stuff like that. They
[02:05:36] had a lot of responsibilities.
[02:05:38] >> Yeah.
[02:05:38] >> Within the temple of God.
[02:05:40] >> There's some weird things about this
[02:05:42] archetype too and they tend to always
[02:05:45] sort of be a bit of outsiders.
[02:05:49] >> Okay.
[02:05:49] >> So, and here's where we take this from
[02:05:51] in Numbers 147. The Levites are Levi is
[02:05:55] counted separately.
[02:05:57] >> Really?
[02:05:58] >> Yeah. He's counted off on the side. Um
[02:06:00] in Numbers three, the Levites are taken
[02:06:03] instead of the firstborn.
[02:06:06] >> H
[02:06:07] >> so they're This is the
[02:06:09] >> set apart.
[02:06:10] >> Yeah.
[02:06:11] >> Okay.
[02:06:11] >> Yeah. But to be set apart, what does
[02:06:13] that mean? If you're not an insider,
[02:06:15] you're an
[02:06:15] >> outsider.
[02:06:16] >> Yeah. So they have a lot of people who
[02:06:18] will relate with the Levite, the priest
[02:06:19] type personality
[02:06:22] is almost like a desire to be an
[02:06:24] outsider.
[02:06:25] >> You kind of are on the outside a little
[02:06:28] bit. And that's because of the
[02:06:31] lubrication, the the lubricant. The
[02:06:33] thing that makes a Levite
[02:06:36] feel like life is better is when they
[02:06:37] know that they're just different.
[02:06:40] They're set they're consecrated. They're
[02:06:42] set apart. They're different. So we
[02:06:44] could we could infer from this that
[02:06:48] there's an element where a a Levite
[02:06:51] personality who is like a priestly type
[02:06:53] personality is usually going to actually
[02:06:55] have a a slight confirmation bias to
[02:06:58] being set apart and so they're going to
[02:07:00] actually enjoy it.
[02:07:02] >> At the same time they're going to
[02:07:03] complain about being an outsider but
[02:07:05] they're going to secretly want to be an
[02:07:06] outsider. Is a tell of who they are
[02:07:08] sometimes the ones that take their own
[02:07:10] personal convictions and put them on
[02:07:11] everybody else?
[02:07:12] >> Yes. because their shadow is legalism.
[02:07:15] >> Oh, great. So, me.
[02:07:17] >> Yeah. Spiritual elitism, legalism,
[02:07:20] severity, phariseaical type. Like,
[02:07:24] we're the image bearers of the rule of
[02:07:26] law.
[02:07:27] >> And because we do this, everyone else is
[02:07:29] expected to do this. Um, the Levites are
[02:07:31] the ones who side with Moses and then
[02:07:33] kill 3,000 of the the Israelites. So,
[02:07:35] they're the ones that come in and
[02:07:36] they're like, "You're wrong and we
[02:07:38] you're dead."
[02:07:40] >> Great. Um, and at the same time, because
[02:07:45] they have the desire to be consecrated
[02:07:47] and set apart,
[02:07:50] the the fear that they always have is
[02:07:53] that they're going to compromise. And
[02:07:56] because they're afraid of compromise,
[02:07:58] they look for compromises in everyone
[02:08:00] else.
[02:08:01] >> Oh, which is where spiritual elitism
[02:08:03] comes from. Their strengths though is
[02:08:04] like, man, they're ruthless about
[02:08:06] guarding what is holy and they are
[02:08:08] ruthless about it.
[02:08:12] You're seeing yourself in this one, not
[02:08:13] more than Judah, aren't you?
[02:08:15] >> Well, I thought I identify a little bit
[02:08:17] more with Benjamin, but we haven't
[02:08:18] gotten there yet.
[02:08:19] >> Yeah.
[02:08:19] >> I I do identify somewhat with Judah, but
[02:08:22] a lot with Levi.
[02:08:24] >> Yeah.
[02:08:24] >> Yeah.
[02:08:25] >> Worship typically because worship is
[02:08:27] mediation between heaven and earth.
[02:08:29] >> Yeah.
[02:08:29] >> And so there the teaching is also
[02:08:31] something that Levites are typically
[02:08:33] pretty drawn to because
[02:08:34] >> education.
[02:08:35] >> Yeah. They want to The Levites were in
[02:08:36] charge of education. But education for
[02:08:38] what? Um, from what I remember reading,
[02:08:41] it was just like the history of God.
[02:08:43] Like what did God done? Like who is God?
[02:08:46] How is he supposed to be?
[02:08:47] >> Here's how you here's how you can
[02:08:48] understand God.
[02:08:49] >> Who is God and what does he want?
[02:08:51] >> Yeah.
[02:08:51] >> Yeah.
[02:08:51] >> Um, which is is necessary if you want to
[02:08:54] >> please God.
[02:08:55] >> Please God, you have to understand what
[02:08:56] pleases him,
[02:08:57] >> right? Um,
[02:08:59] >> and then if they're going to fall,
[02:09:00] they're going to fall because of
[02:09:02] harshness and religion. And they're
[02:09:06] going to use the Bible as a weapon. And
[02:09:10] they're going to use their consecrations
[02:09:11] as a weapon. They're going to gatekeep
[02:09:13] access to God. And if you don't follow a
[02:09:15] Levites consecration just from a
[02:09:18] personality standpoint, then you can't
[02:09:19] know God. And they're going to abuse
[02:09:22] people because they're going to try to
[02:09:24] gatekeep them away from God.
[02:09:28] Yeah.
[02:09:30] Okay.
[02:09:30] >> They're the ones who will often times
[02:09:33] put a price
[02:09:35] on being
[02:09:37] godly that God himself doesn't even put
[02:09:40] the price on like that.
[02:09:44] >> Wow.
[02:09:45] >> They're saying this is what you have to
[02:09:46] do to enter the Holy of Holies. And
[02:09:48] God's like, "No, you don't." After the
[02:09:51] new covenant
[02:09:52] >> after Yeah, you don't have to do that.
[02:09:54] But they didn't get the memo. still were
[02:09:56] like trying to gatekeep
[02:09:57] >> and that is that why do you think uh
[02:10:00] whoever wrote Hebrews updated us from
[02:10:02] Levitical to the order of Mkisedc?
[02:10:04] >> Mhm.
[02:10:05] >> What is that? What what else does that
[02:10:07] unlock?
[02:10:08] >> Access. Okay.
[02:10:12] >> Which is everything
[02:10:15] >> that makes Okay.
[02:10:17] >> So if you have a pastor who is a strong
[02:10:20] like Levi personality that's awesome.
[02:10:23] Yeah. They they are going to take you
[02:10:25] straight to the throne room of heaven.
[02:10:27] >> When these people speak, it's like you
[02:10:30] feel God and they're teaching how to
[02:10:33] mediate God unless they begin to
[02:10:36] participate in
[02:10:39] the shadow of a Levite. And then they
[02:10:42] start to sound different and they start
[02:10:44] going like, you have to fact check what
[02:10:47] God tells you through your pastor.
[02:10:53] I didn't hear that for you, so that must
[02:10:55] not be God.
[02:10:57] >> Okay, you're a Levite.
[02:10:58] >> Wow.
[02:10:58] >> But you're actually participating in
[02:11:00] gatekeeping. God really doesn't like
[02:11:01] that. And he'll get on to you for it.
[02:11:04] >> Right.
[02:11:05] >> Then that turns into a form of pride
[02:11:06] because you're wanting to take the place
[02:11:08] of God. And then you're like all of a
[02:11:09] sudden
[02:11:09] >> spiritualism. All of a sudden you can't
[02:11:11] hear God because hates pride. Okay.
[02:11:13] Nice. That's wonderful.
[02:11:15] >> Yep. Issachar the sage.
[02:11:17] >> But hold on. But but God still speaks
[02:11:21] through pride. He'll still speak to you
[02:11:22] if you have pride, right?
[02:11:24] >> Yeah. But with his fist
[02:11:27] instead of his mouth. I feel like that
[02:11:30] was an important note.
[02:11:32] >> Oh yeah. He'll totally speak to you
[02:11:33] through pride. But it it usually results
[02:11:35] in like, "Wow, I just got flattened out
[02:11:37] by God speaking to me." It doesn't mean
[02:11:40] he's mean. It just is like there's one
[02:11:42] thing in the Bible where God is like,
[02:11:43] "Man, if you have this, we kick you off
[02:11:45] your horse. Pride.
[02:11:48] It's not adultery, not lying, not
[02:11:50] stealing, not any of the, you know, the
[02:11:52] taboo things. Yeah. Not astrology, not
[02:11:55] witchcraft. The Bible doesn't say God
[02:11:57] resists those who participate in
[02:12:00] witchcraft.
[02:12:01] No, he actually will walk right up to
[02:12:03] you. The witches are they are easy to
[02:12:05] get to Jesus. Like they're not hard to
[02:12:08] reach for Jesus at all. They don't even
[02:12:09] want to be witches. They want to be
[02:12:10] safe. That's what they want. And they
[02:12:12] couldn't get to God. So they try to
[02:12:15] figure out a way to get to God somewhere
[02:12:16] else, which now we have witchcraft.
[02:12:18] >> So they're super easy. And it's just
[02:12:20] like,
[02:12:22] "Hey, I love you so much."
[02:12:26] And God loves you so much and he thinks
[02:12:28] about you every second of every day.
[02:12:31] And there are ways that you can be safe
[02:12:33] that don't involve being trapped in what
[02:12:35] you're trapped in. M
[02:12:36] >> usually it's what
[02:12:39] really
[02:12:41] or they'll try to curse you and then
[02:12:43] they just run away but you they
[02:12:44] eventually get get to the they get to
[02:12:46] it.
[02:12:47] >> Prideful people impossible to reach,
[02:12:50] dude. Like impossible.
[02:12:52] >> And so this is where like God's like the
[02:12:54] safest way for me to reach this prideful
[02:12:56] person is to kick them off of their
[02:12:58] horse.
[02:13:00] um makes them crazy and they eat grass
[02:13:03] for seven years and then I can restore
[02:13:05] them to kingship. It's Nebuchadnezzar, I
[02:13:07] believe. Right.
[02:13:08] >> Yep.
[02:13:09] >> And so he's making an image to himself.
[02:13:11] God's like, "Dude, you're so prideful.
[02:13:12] I'm going to turn you into an animal for
[02:13:14] seven years and then we're going to
[02:13:15] crush it.
[02:13:16] >> You don't want to be prideful. You don't
[02:13:17] want the pride. Spiritual elitism is
[02:13:19] terrifying. You're
[02:13:21] >> going to Issakar. Are we Is Benjamin
[02:13:22] after that?"
[02:13:23] >> Nope.
[02:13:24] >> Okay.
[02:13:24] >> Isachar the sage.
[02:13:26] >> The sage. Isscars are obsessed with
[02:13:29] moments and reading the moments and
[02:13:31] timing. Timing. Okay. 1st Chronicles
[02:13:34] 12:32. The minute of Issachar, the ones
[02:13:35] who understood the times, Israel was in
[02:13:37] trouble. They understood the times so
[02:13:39] that they can tell Israel what to do.
[02:13:40] So, it's wisdom for the times. It's not
[02:13:43] just necessarily prophecy. It's like
[02:13:45] here's what to do because of the times.
[02:13:47] So these people have a an typically a an
[02:13:50] attraction to understanding history and
[02:13:52] understanding cycles and understanding
[02:13:56] patterns, pattern recognition.
[02:13:59] They want to know what this means. Is it
[02:14:01] directly affected to the prophetic or is
[02:14:03] it more of an intellectually putting
[02:14:05] together or is it both at once?
[02:14:07] >> All of the above. Okay.
[02:14:08] >> Yeah, all of the above. But that's the
[02:14:10] what is a sage? Can a sage be prophetic?
[02:14:12] Yep. Can they be intellectual? Yep. Can
[02:14:14] they be a student of history?
[02:14:15] Absolutely. Can they be a student of
[02:14:18] energy? Absolutely. But why are they
[02:14:20] studying it?
[02:14:21] >> So, so the archetypes are telling you
[02:14:22] why, not what.
[02:14:24] Why?
[02:14:25] >> Okay.
[02:14:25] >> So, the difference between a Benjamite
[02:14:27] wanting visibility and a Judah wanting
[02:14:29] visibility is not the what, it's why
[02:14:31] they want it. It's fulfilling different
[02:14:33] desires for those people. M
[02:14:35] >> this is why the, you know,
[02:14:36] psychrometrics comes back into play
[02:14:38] because you can have two sales people
[02:14:40] that are doing the same job, doing it
[02:14:41] really well,
[02:14:42] >> but the way they're doing it isn't
[02:14:45] necessarily because of what they've been
[02:14:48] taught. It's because of what they want.
[02:14:51] >> Okay.
[02:14:51] >> Yeah. Um the shadow for this is they
[02:14:54] tend to uh they tend to drift into o
[02:14:57] overanalysis and and honestly we got a
[02:15:00] lot of our our new age friends are
[02:15:03] actually sages. They're sage
[02:15:05] personalities. They will understand the
[02:15:07] times no matter what. They'll go
[02:15:10] anywhere they need to to understand the
[02:15:11] times. Does astrology help me? Yep.
[02:15:13] Okay, I'm going to do it. Does human
[02:15:14] design help me? Yep. Does this or that
[02:15:16] or that? Well, God says don't do that.
[02:15:18] They're like well I have to know the
[02:15:20] times. This is a shadow is like an over
[02:15:24] uh obsession with understanding the
[02:15:27] cycle. Who are you because of when you
[02:15:30] were born? I have to know. I have to
[02:15:31] understand. There's got to be this I
[02:15:35] need to understand you. Take these seven
[02:15:37] personality tests. I'm not going to pray
[02:15:38] about it. I just want to know the psych
[02:15:40] the psychometrics.
[02:15:42] >> That's I just need to know. This is like
[02:15:44] shadow. This is a temptation. Where did
[02:15:46] this pop up in the Bible? Like were
[02:15:48] there any characters that popped up
[02:15:49] specifically that were like this that
[02:15:50] you can learn more about?
[02:15:52] >> Uh I don't think so.
[02:15:54] >> The only I don't know if this is
[02:15:55] accurate. I don't know if it's just cuz
[02:15:57] he cares about a lot, but like the only
[02:15:58] person I can think right now in like
[02:15:59] modern times has two people. You've got
[02:16:01] Alberino and John Bevere. Do they fit
[02:16:03] into the archetype or No.
[02:16:05] >> For Isachar, I don't know.
[02:16:07] >> No, I don't I don't know. Um it's just
[02:16:10] fascinating to study. Like for people
[02:16:11] that I don't understand, I could go
[02:16:12] study how they think. So in Genesis
[02:16:14] 49:14, Issachar is pictured as a strong
[02:16:16] donkey who sees that the land is
[02:16:18] pleasant, then bows his shoulder to the
[02:16:20] bear and becomes a servant to forced
[02:16:22] labor. So they labored and became a
[02:16:25] slave to something they did not have to
[02:16:27] become a slave to because they wouldn't
[02:16:29] they didn't go to God for the
[02:16:31] understanding of the times. So it's not
[02:16:33] like they had this dramatic fall.
[02:16:36] >> But when you're addicted to
[02:16:37] understanding everything, it's not going
[02:16:39] to be a dramatic fall. It's going to be
[02:16:41] a slow drip of like God's not going to
[02:16:44] give you all the answers you want right
[02:16:45] now. So, you're going to slowly go
[02:16:47] around God and get other things. Okay?
[02:16:51] And but the lubricant is actually like
[02:16:53] partnering with God to understand,
[02:16:56] asking God for understanding. And uh I
[02:16:59] think like Apostle is
[02:17:02] just this profound understanding of the
[02:17:04] times like she knows what 2026 means for
[02:17:07] the whole world. And I'm often times
[02:17:09] like, "How do you know that God?" I
[02:17:11] mean, obviously God told you, but where
[02:17:13] did you come up? Where did that how did
[02:17:15] you get that? How did you infer? And
[02:17:17] she'll she'll answer be like, "Well, God
[02:17:19] told me this."
[02:17:21] >> I'm like, "That doesn't answer my
[02:17:22] question because that doesn't mean
[02:17:23] what?" But to her, it makes sense. And
[02:17:26] it and it fact checks out with
[02:17:27] scripture, but she's never going
[02:17:30] anywhere else but God to get that.
[02:17:33] >> But she wants to understand the time so
[02:17:35] she can equip the people to know what to
[02:17:36] do.
[02:17:38] This is a this is a personality, you
[02:17:41] know.
[02:17:41] >> Yeah.
[02:17:42] >> And they they tend to have a fall line
[02:17:45] at cowardice where they see and
[02:17:50] understand but they do not speak.
[02:17:53] They see what is wrong but they say
[02:17:56] nothing.
[02:17:59] And the temptation comes from this fear
[02:18:02] of misdiagnosing the moment or
[02:18:05] misreading the moment or being wrong.
[02:18:09] Get like a clear prophecy from God and
[02:18:12] you don't want to say it because you
[02:18:13] don't want to be wrong. There are
[02:18:14] consequences to being wrong. Um or you
[02:18:18] have to back it up a thousand different
[02:18:20] ways before you share it. And so your
[02:18:22] obedience becomes like
[02:18:25] transactionally
[02:18:26] oriented around this has got to be risk-
[02:18:28] free or I'm not doing it.
[02:18:31] >> So if you have a pastor, a prophet, a
[02:18:33] teacher, apostle, an evangelist who are
[02:18:35] all this,
[02:18:37] they're going to know where the world is
[02:18:39] going, but the chances are that they're
[02:18:40] not going to they're not going to all
[02:18:42] have the necessary boldness to stand on
[02:18:44] their on their own against culture. Can
[02:18:47] I ask just for a training moment since
[02:18:49] it sounds like it's pretty important?
[02:18:51] >> Yeah.
[02:18:51] >> Like so like with the prophetic I mean I
[02:18:54] think we've kind of seen the the adverse
[02:18:57] effects of people just being like God
[02:18:58] told me this and they're like I'm just
[02:18:59] trying to operate in the office of a
[02:19:00] prophet. It's like you kind of mess
[02:19:02] someone's life up because they had no
[02:19:03] idea what you were talking about. They
[02:19:04] took your word seriously and now their
[02:19:06] life is a mess versus being like hey you
[02:19:10] should go talk to the Holy Spirit about
[02:19:11] this and check in but I think this is
[02:19:13] what he's saying. And you don't hear
[02:19:15] that from someone who's mature. You hear
[02:19:17] it from someone who's immature, but
[02:19:18] someone who's hearing this and going
[02:19:20] like, "Hey, I do have that cowardice
[02:19:22] around it." What do you feel like is
[02:19:23] probably some good like healthy training
[02:19:26] and things to install in place? If you
[02:19:29] don't have an answer, that's okay. But
[02:19:30] I'm just I'm
[02:19:31] >> Is the question repeat it in one
[02:19:33] sentence for me so I'm not distracted.
[02:19:35] >> How do you train that gift if you're
[02:19:37] immature in it? Oh, other people who
[02:19:40] have that gift. What if you don't know
[02:19:42] anybody who doesn't have
[02:19:43] >> then then you you got to go find some
[02:19:45] people or you have to really let the
[02:19:47] Holy Spirit train you. Preferably you
[02:19:49] just kind of like God will give you. So
[02:19:53] part of this is is God a good trainer.
[02:19:56] >> Absolutely.
[02:19:56] >> Are you sure?
[02:19:58] >> Yes. Even though I haven't experienced
[02:20:00] it enough to be able to like
[02:20:02] experientially be like I have truly
[02:20:04] experienced that a lot.
[02:20:05] >> Do you always agree with how God trains
[02:20:07] you?
[02:20:08] >> Heck no.
[02:20:09] >> No. But he's a good trainer, right? Yes.
[02:20:11] >> Okay. Are there times when God has
[02:20:13] trained you on a way to not do something
[02:20:15] that are very painful for you?
[02:20:17] >> Mhm.
[02:20:17] >> Okay. Well, this is the same thing. How
[02:20:19] do I train in this gift? You either find
[02:20:21] people who are already trained who can
[02:20:23] mentor you and teach you. But when
[02:20:25] you're like, what if you don't know
[02:20:26] anybody? Well, do you go to church? Are
[02:20:28] you
[02:20:29] >> are do you live by yourself in in the
[02:20:32] middle of the desert? Where are you?
[02:20:34] >> How is that possible, Jake? Like, tell
[02:20:36] me how that would be possible. um just
[02:20:38] because I've seen at least like I said
[02:20:40] it might be my bubble it might be my
[02:20:42] experience in my experience there wasn't
[02:20:43] a lot of room for that anywhere like to
[02:20:46] be honest there was a lot of things that
[02:20:48] I never got to experience until I came
[02:20:49] to Tennessee okay but you found someone
[02:20:52] in Tennessee and how did you get access
[02:20:54] >> uh
[02:20:57] to Tennessee or or those people
[02:20:59] >> to me because I'm training you
[02:21:01] >> um
[02:21:03] I actually got access to you by working
[02:21:05] for you served D and then I paid to be
[02:21:09] your client to stay in this.
[02:21:11] >> Well, hold on. I don't want you to go
[02:21:12] into the weeds. I want you to stay
[02:21:12] macro.
[02:21:13] >> Okay.
[02:21:14] >> You served and you offered value.
[02:21:16] >> Okay.
[02:21:16] >> That's how you got access to me, right?
[02:21:18] >> That's true.
[02:21:19] >> Okay. So, if you wouldn't have never
[02:21:20] served and offered value and you were
[02:21:21] just moaning online about how you
[02:21:23] couldn't find anybody, would anybody be
[02:21:24] attracted to that?
[02:21:25] >> No one.
[02:21:26] >> No one. So, I don't think it's really
[02:21:28] feasible. It's like, I can't find
[02:21:30] anyone. Well, are you serving anywhere?
[02:21:32] Are you adding value to anyone's life?
[02:21:34] >> Yeah, that's a great point. If you're by
[02:21:36] yourself and not adding value to
[02:21:38] anybody, of course, you're not going to
[02:21:38] have a mentor anywhere. You're not
[02:21:40] unless unless like
[02:21:43] >> God brings an Elijah, but that's going
[02:21:45] to be costly and painful, more costly
[02:21:47] and painful than you just serving and
[02:21:49] offering value. That's a lot cheaper
[02:21:52] than when God has to bring an Elijah to
[02:21:54] you because then it's like burn
[02:21:55] everything you have, go with nothing,
[02:21:57] and you're going to be my like servant
[02:21:58] for a couple years. Wow.
[02:22:00] >> So, that's what we want though, you
[02:22:01] know? We want somebody to come find us.
[02:22:04] Do you really?
[02:22:06] Cuz we do have a pattern for that as
[02:22:08] well. Do you really want that or would
[02:22:11] you rather just plug into your your
[02:22:15] church and serve or like find a business
[02:22:16] owner who you know is gifted and offer
[02:22:18] value? That's a lot easier, bro, to to
[02:22:20] get in the door
[02:22:22] >> than God being like, "Find
[02:22:26] Taylor. Go find this person." Cuz that's
[02:22:28] going to be like the Lord woke me up at
[02:22:30] night and I'm I'm slightly annoyed that
[02:22:32] he did that. And so you need to stop
[02:22:34] what you're doing and you need to move
[02:22:35] to Tennessee. That's going to be a more
[02:22:37] painful conversation.
[02:22:38] >> Yeah.
[02:22:38] >> Make sense?
[02:22:39] >> That's a great that's a great way of
[02:22:40] looking at it.
[02:22:41] >> You want to keep going?
[02:22:42] >> Yes.
[02:22:43] >> Uh Zebulun, the merchant. The merchant.
[02:22:45] We have the lion, the priest, the sage,
[02:22:47] and the merchant. The merchant is uh
[02:22:51] someone who was gifted in this person
[02:22:53] was gifted in prosperity
[02:22:55] >> and the the prosperity the kind of
[02:22:57] prosperity that created influence. Um
[02:23:00] this was the person who
[02:23:03] had resource mobilization and
[02:23:07] um the ability to create expansion.
[02:23:11] Right.
[02:23:12] >> Mhm.
[02:23:12] >> Let me find you a scripture reference
[02:23:15] for Zebulun.
[02:23:19] This person was
[02:23:23] blessed by Moses to go out and create
[02:23:26] abundance and draw people in. Um, whoa.
[02:23:31] >> Yeah. Draw people in through abundance
[02:23:33] and prosperity.
[02:23:34] >> Please, I want all the context.
[02:23:37] Genesis 49,
[02:23:40] Deuteronomy 33:18,
[02:23:44] Joshua 19:10,
[02:23:49] but then it starts going sideways.
[02:23:52] >> Okay? Because through the allure of
[02:23:54] expansion, the this personality begins
[02:23:58] to be tempted towards
[02:24:01] half obedience. I can have a little bit
[02:24:03] of the gift of what my personality is
[02:24:06] good for, but greed begins to sort of
[02:24:09] rewrite the narrative. So Zebulun, it
[02:24:12] was the tribe of Zebulun that failed to
[02:24:13] drive out all of the Canaanites. They
[02:24:14] just stopped.
[02:24:15] >> Okay.
[02:24:16] >> But Canaanites was the land of merchants
[02:24:17] and abundance and prosperity. So I would
[02:24:20] I would infer that there was some
[02:24:22] complacency that happened due to the
[02:24:24] greed that is it can be inherent. If
[02:24:27] you're gifted really gifted in
[02:24:29] enterprise
[02:24:31] resource allocation, resource
[02:24:33] mobilization, prosperity, there can be a
[02:24:35] temptation here for you to sort of start
[02:24:38] to sell out to that expansion.
[02:24:41] And what God will often do if you're
[02:24:43] getting close to that line is he'll
[02:24:45] start telling you to give stuff away.
[02:24:46] And as if you decide no, then you've
[02:24:48] sold out. You're starting to hoard what
[02:24:51] is yours. The lubricant for this person
[02:24:53] is momentum. So if you are someone if
[02:24:55] you're not moving, if you're not
[02:24:57] expanding something, if you don't have
[02:24:58] something to touch and try to multiply
[02:25:00] it, you start going crazy and you're
[02:25:03] like, I don't know what to do. And it's
[02:25:06] like, bro, what's your problem? They're
[02:25:07] like, I'm just not moving forward. It's
[02:25:08] like, this is a tellt tell of this type
[02:25:12] of personality. You need like big
[02:25:15] vision, open horizons, and you need to
[02:25:17] be tracking your progress through it.
[02:25:19] And if if you're if you go too long
[02:25:20] without being able to say like I'm
[02:25:22] making progress, you're like, I'm doing
[02:25:25] nothing my whole life is pointless and
[02:25:26] nothing matters. And so this is a
[02:25:28] lubricant. You need something that you
[02:25:30] can multiply and you should ask God for
[02:25:33] it. God can bring God knows who God
[02:25:35] knows what he's built you for. The the
[02:25:37] fall line is going to become greed and
[02:25:40] selling out because
[02:25:43] there's a lot of ways that you could use
[02:25:45] your gift. God wants it to fund the
[02:25:48] kingdom and you're funding your
[02:25:49] helicopter. It's like not the same, bro.
[02:25:52] Like not the same. Um,
[02:25:55] so I got a little bit of this. They'll
[02:25:58] monetize what should be not monetized.
[02:26:02] They will see everything through charts
[02:26:04] and money. And is that part of the
[02:26:06] reason you haven't taken any sponsors
[02:26:08] for this show or like you haven't really
[02:26:10] compared to what you could do with deep
[02:26:12] end you've hardly monetized it. Is that
[02:26:14] why?
[02:26:15] partially, but partially because I want
[02:26:17] to
[02:26:19] uh
[02:26:23] it goes back to that addiction thing. I
[02:26:25] don't want to necessarily see
[02:26:29] what it could do. I want it to grow to
[02:26:32] do what God wants it to do. I have a lot
[02:26:35] of things that I could be like, well,
[02:26:36] this could really fund this and that
[02:26:37] would be awesome. But I don't it's like
[02:26:39] it would be like I think it would feel
[02:26:41] like uh drinking alcohol if I hadn't had
[02:26:44] alcohol in 5 years.
[02:26:45] >> I don't know what it would do. It may be
[02:26:47] fine.
[02:26:48] >> It may be fine. I may just be like a
[02:26:50] little uptight about it and kind of
[02:26:51] grumpy grumpster,
[02:26:53] >> you know, cuz there's been many
[02:26:54] opportunities and we've I've kind of
[02:26:56] been like, "No, not going to
[02:26:58] >> do that." But maybe a little bit. Yeah,
[02:27:02] that makes sense. Um, Joseph
[02:27:07] the bull. Ah, dude, we got Baal. I was
[02:27:10] about to say Bale.
[02:27:12] >> We got the bull. But here's the thing.
[02:27:14] The enemy doesn't want to take you and
[02:27:16] kill you necessarily or necessarily like
[02:27:18] he will kill you if he could, but he
[02:27:20] doesn't want to strip your gifts from
[02:27:21] you. He wants to buy them. You can think
[02:27:24] about the adversary this way. He's
[02:27:26] >> Does he do that because he can't take
[02:27:28] the gift?
[02:27:29] >> Ye. Yes.
[02:27:31] >> Right. And also, if you don't have the
[02:27:33] ability to create gifts and put them in
[02:27:35] people, what's the only way you can get
[02:27:37] gifted people?
[02:27:39] >> Giving them something that makes them
[02:27:40] want to
[02:27:41] >> steal them.
[02:27:42] >> Yeah. Like if he can't he can't
[02:27:45] manufacture spirit,
[02:27:48] he can't put a spirit and a soul and a
[02:27:50] body together and create diplomatic
[02:27:53] dominion on earth. So the only way for
[02:27:55] him to control anything is to take
[02:27:57] yours. So he's got to take your
[02:27:59] passport. He can't make passports. So
[02:28:01] that's why he would run out of resources
[02:28:03] if he couldn't steal people's gifts. So
[02:28:06] he doesn't want to he doesn't want to
[02:28:07] destroy them. He wants to take them and
[02:28:10] corrupt them and sort of divert them
[02:28:12] >> into other places. So Joseph, we we
[02:28:15] infer Joseph through Joseph's offspring.
[02:28:18] >> And this is a little bit of this is
[02:28:20] looser, but this is where Jacob is
[02:28:21] talking about
[02:28:23] Joseph's offspring. And we can also
[02:28:25] infer this from Joseph. So, we take
[02:28:27] Joseph, Ephraim, and Manasseh, we put
[02:28:28] them into one type of thing, and we get
[02:28:30] like a new
[02:28:32] >> archetype. Make sense?
[02:28:34] >> Mhm.
[02:28:35] >> Um, resilience, their strengths. They
[02:28:38] have this ability to maintain fortitude
[02:28:42] inside of extremely difficult, sometimes
[02:28:46] predatory
[02:28:47] environments. They have the ability to
[02:28:50] control administration at large scales.
[02:28:52] Order. They love creating order. But you
[02:28:54] often find Joseph as a second in
[02:28:56] commands. We're not talking about a
[02:28:58] Judah who controls through being in
[02:29:02] front. Joseph has the same type of
[02:29:04] giftings, but they typically lead from
[02:29:06] the second in command.
[02:29:08] >> Yeah.
[02:29:09] >> And so order, administration, large
[02:29:10] scale. They can organize. You have a lot
[02:29:12] of apostles who are Joseph
[02:29:14] personalities. They're just not on the
[02:29:17] internet.
[02:29:18] They're connected to something and
[02:29:20] they're behind the scenes. You know what
[02:29:22] I mean?
[02:29:23] >> Mhm. is a good thing.
[02:29:25] >> Yeah.
[02:29:25] >> Okay.
[02:29:26] >> It just depends on who it is. Like
[02:29:27] >> some people really love they're just
[02:29:29] they they love being like
[02:29:33] you know uh
[02:29:35] >> Caleb Caleb like they love being the
[02:29:38] second they love being behind the
[02:29:39] scenes. They love supporting someone
[02:29:41] else's mission and calling and it's
[02:29:43] because God made them that way to
[02:29:44] support that thing. Calebs are in
[02:29:47] instrumental. We have to have Caleb's.
[02:29:50] Not everyone can be a Joshua either. Do
[02:29:52] you see that as when you say that do you
[02:29:54] see that as part of the I don't want to
[02:29:57] say the risk but part of the damage that
[02:29:59] incurs when you say people who are like
[02:30:01] if you want to get the dream and you
[02:30:03] want to hold the mic blah blah blah like
[02:30:05] they're only appealing to one type of
[02:30:07] person but if everybody has the
[02:30:09] microphone then like there's no one to
[02:30:10] sit down.
[02:30:13] Yeah. And if if people knew the cost of
[02:30:15] holding the microphone nobody would want
[02:30:16] to touch it.
[02:30:18] >> Thank you.
[02:30:19] >> Yeah. I like my favorite place to be in
[02:30:22] the whole world. The whole world is not
[02:30:25] with a microphone. It's behind a
[02:30:28] keyboard
[02:30:29] >> in the back of the stage.
[02:30:31] >> Mhm.
[02:30:32] >> Where I'm heard but not seen.
[02:30:34] >> Mhm.
[02:30:35] >> That's my favorite place in the whole
[02:30:36] world to be. Um
[02:30:39] >> and as soon as the a microphone is put
[02:30:41] in my hands, I'll do it. But the
[02:30:44] introverted side of me is kind of like
[02:30:46] whatever, I have to. But now there's
[02:30:48] liability. Now there's extreme
[02:30:50] liability. And so I have to be a little
[02:30:52] careful. Even my nervous system sort of
[02:30:54] adjusts to it. And I'm more in like a
[02:30:56] fight orflight
[02:30:58] situation. Here's the here's the shadow
[02:31:01] though of a of this archetype.
[02:31:05] Maybe you are resilient and maybe you do
[02:31:08] have the ability to create order at
[02:31:09] large scale. But there's typically an
[02:31:12] extreme amount of how does how do you
[02:31:14] know somebody's resilient? They go
[02:31:15] through a lot of pain.
[02:31:17] No one is trained in resilience without
[02:31:19] pain. And so the shadow here is that you
[02:31:22] misuse pain and you become cold,
[02:31:26] disattached, bitter, cynical.
[02:31:31] And in order to prevent being betrayed
[02:31:32] in the future, you start to control
[02:31:37] because you don't ever want anybody to
[02:31:38] do what they did to you. And you're
[02:31:40] resentful of what they did
[02:31:42] >> and you can't let it go. And all of a
[02:31:45] sudden, you're playing games with God
[02:31:47] because you know that God wants you to
[02:31:49] do something, but unless you can control
[02:31:52] it, you're not going to do it.
[02:31:54] >> So, you're just asking God to make sure
[02:31:55] that you never become resilient
[02:31:57] >> pretty much.
[02:31:59] >> Yeah. You you defect out of the training
[02:32:01] program.
[02:32:02] >> Emotional armor makes you like sort of
[02:32:04] not feel anything. You shut your
[02:32:05] feelings down. And out of that
[02:32:08] bitterness,
[02:32:10] the the fall for this type of person
[02:32:12] becomes just cold detachment.
[02:32:15] >> And so there's no blood running through
[02:32:17] your veins and there's no power running
[02:32:19] through you anymore except for the power
[02:32:20] of your intellect, but you have no power
[02:32:22] to connect with the spirit of God.
[02:32:25] Make sense?
[02:32:26] >> Yep.
[02:32:27] >> Now we get to Benjamin. You ready?
[02:32:29] >> Were you saving this one for last?
[02:32:30] >> Nope.
[02:32:30] >> Oh, okay.
[02:32:31] >> Nope. There's There's a lot, dude.
[02:32:33] That's why we're rushing through them.
[02:32:35] I'm You can't archetype 8 billion people
[02:32:38] into four.
[02:32:39] >> More than that,
[02:32:40] Which one are we on right now? 7
[02:32:42] 8 9 1 2 3 4 5 six.
[02:32:46] >> We're on six. We're halfway.
[02:32:47] >> Six. We're halfway there.
[02:32:48] >> Oh, dear God. My wife is
[02:32:50] >> You can let me speed up if you want me
[02:32:52] to.
[02:32:52] >> The wolf. The wolf. This is Benjamite.
[02:32:54] The tribe of Benjamin. That will be a
[02:32:56] ravenous wolf. Their strength is they
[02:32:59] are fierce and they are intense. They
[02:33:01] have the ability. You can drop them in
[02:33:02] front of um the hardest obstacle in the
[02:33:05] world and they light up and are filled
[02:33:07] with life. They're going to beat through
[02:33:09] that wall. They're going to break into
[02:33:11] culture. They're going to be a rock that
[02:33:15] people are going to have to decide what
[02:33:16] to do about. They're fiercely protective
[02:33:20] as well, not necessarily of guarding
[02:33:22] holiness, but of protecting people.
[02:33:25] So, you see there's a dove tail between
[02:33:27] some of these. They connect in.
[02:33:29] >> You have both. You are fierce and
[02:33:32] intense about protecting holiness, but
[02:33:33] you're also extremely protective of
[02:33:35] people.
[02:33:37] >> They see everything as winnable.
[02:33:42] >> Yikes.
[02:33:43] >> Everything.
[02:33:45] Even the things that God didn't tell
[02:33:47] them to go fight.
[02:33:49] And so they get dragged into wars that
[02:33:52] God didn't want them to get into because
[02:33:54] they see
[02:33:56] prizes. It's like a piece of them that
[02:33:58] are like, I want to go fight that. Their
[02:34:01] their weakness, their shadow, per se, is
[02:34:04] a fear of vulnerability.
[02:34:06] They they don't want to expose
[02:34:09] vulnerability. They don't want to come
[02:34:10] across as weak or silly or stupid or
[02:34:13] dumb. Um, and they become extremely
[02:34:16] intimidating and impulsive because
[02:34:18] they're constantly fighting war.
[02:34:22] And uh if if you look at what is the
[02:34:25] fall line for this person, if they're
[02:34:27] going to fall, they are going to devour
[02:34:29] what is good
[02:34:31] because
[02:34:33] they couldn't turn the the warrior off.
[02:34:39] This is Saul. Soul is a Benjamite. They
[02:34:42] tend to attach to people
[02:34:45] and they're protective of those people,
[02:34:47] but then they begin to devour those
[02:34:49] people when they're threatened.
[02:34:53] This is why that pastor though was
[02:34:54] talking about total Benjamite
[02:34:56] personality, but not a Benjamite that is
[02:34:58] submitted to serving the Lord. He's a
[02:35:00] Benjamite committed to serving his own
[02:35:02] empire.
[02:35:04] >> And so if you're disloyal, he'll devour
[02:35:05] you. Doesn't matter how long you've been
[02:35:07] with him. It doesn't matter if you're
[02:35:08] like, "Dude, I'm really concerned about
[02:35:10] you." He'll fire you. He'll confront
[02:35:11] you. He'll devour you. If you disagree
[02:35:14] with Saul, Saul was so protective of his
[02:35:16] kingdom that he be to devour allies.
[02:35:22] And then the end point of this is total
[02:35:24] destruction that God has to then build
[02:35:26] it back up with someone new. Judges 19,
[02:35:28] you see the end point of Saul and you've
[02:35:30] got people like a kingdom that's
[02:35:32] fractured, broken, and Saul's literally
[02:35:34] just like ruined all of it because he
[02:35:36] was like,
[02:35:38] I am anointed.
[02:35:41] You can't take what is mine. So their
[02:35:43] lubricant is they a Benjamin type person
[02:35:46] needs like a clear enemy like a clear
[02:35:49] war a clear charge like a clear big
[02:35:51] mission and they have to have something
[02:35:53] to fight for. If they don't have
[02:35:54] something to fight for then their
[02:35:56] intensity will turn to allies and
[02:35:58] they'll start to fight them.
[02:36:02] Something that stands out with Saul is
[02:36:03] that like he's saying things like or
[02:36:06] even thinking things like I am anointed,
[02:36:08] but the truth is that he was anointed
[02:36:10] and then he's taken out by God basically
[02:36:13] like his death is predicted.
[02:36:17] Do you see that now where people were
[02:36:19] anointed and they're trying to operate
[02:36:21] in like an old anointing and so they no
[02:36:23] longer have the grace and the power that
[02:36:24] they once did because they quote unquote
[02:36:26] messed it up?
[02:36:27] >> Heck yeah.
[02:36:28] >> Okay. Well, how do you balance that with
[02:36:29] like you can't mess up the will of God?
[02:36:31] Like I guess maybe that maybe those two
[02:36:33] those two are probably actually both
[02:36:34] true simultaneously. But like
[02:36:37] what do you do at that point? You just
[02:36:38] repent and hope it's not too late.
[02:36:39] >> What do you mean?
[02:36:40] >> What do I mean by what?
[02:36:41] >> I I don't understand the question.
[02:36:44] >> If that's true that you can lose your
[02:36:46] anointing um or you could be anointed
[02:36:48] for something and God was like you were
[02:36:50] but you disqualified yourself. Is your
[02:36:53] basically only hope to just repent and
[02:36:55] hope it's not too late?
[02:36:57] And is there a good chance that God will
[02:36:58] restore you or is it pretty much like
[02:37:00] there's a good chance you're getting
[02:37:01] reset?
[02:37:02] >> There's a good chance you're going to be
[02:37:04] reset.
[02:37:05] >> Yeah.
[02:37:07] Yeah. I would say there's a 99% chance
[02:37:09] you're going to be reset. Okay. What do
[02:37:13] you consider being disqualification
[02:37:15] though? Like we talked recent I forget
[02:37:16] which episode we talked about, but you
[02:37:18] were like, "Man, it takes a lot for God
[02:37:19] to disqualify a person." So, what do you
[02:37:22] feel like that looks like in the area of
[02:37:23] like you were anointed for this, you
[02:37:25] disqualified, maybe it's a different
[02:37:27] maybe it's a different aspect of life
[02:37:29] where you're just you're not
[02:37:30] disqualified as a person, but
[02:37:32] disqualified from what you were asked to
[02:37:33] do and so you no longer have grace and
[02:37:35] power on it. Um, well, I think I think
[02:37:38] you can disqualify yourself according to
[02:37:40] the New Testament. The way that Paul's
[02:37:42] writing to Timothy and he's talking
[02:37:43] about like the qualifications for an
[02:37:46] elder and
[02:37:48] >> which were covering them all right now.
[02:37:50] >> People just need to go to google.com.
[02:37:52] Okay.
[02:37:52] >> Look for Paul's qualifications.
[02:37:53] >> I was just asking for me. I'm sorry.
[02:37:56] >> I don't know. We'd have to look it up.
[02:37:58] But dude, you have to go on a date.
[02:37:59] >> I do have to go on a date.
[02:38:00] >> We're rushing through.
[02:38:01] >> I know. And I wasn't going to ask the
[02:38:02] question, but I'm here. I am. I'm I'm
[02:38:04] asking because I'm curious.
[02:38:06] >> What's What's the difference
[02:38:08] what's the difference between um God
[02:38:11] disqualifying Elijah and God
[02:38:14] disqualifying Saul?
[02:38:18] >> What's the difference in what aspect? I
[02:38:19] want to have a chance answering the
[02:38:20] question.
[02:38:22] >> How did their stories play out
[02:38:23] differently?
[02:38:24] >> Cuz God doesn't slaughter Elijah and the
[02:38:26] people don't rise up against him and
[02:38:27] kill him.
[02:38:27] >> Yeah.
[02:38:28] >> So, he's disqualifying both of them.
[02:38:30] They're both disqualified at the end.
[02:38:33] People will hate that, but they just got
[02:38:34] to read the Bible and learn how God
[02:38:37] spoke about Elijah and to Elijah. That
[02:38:39] doesn't mean Elijah sucked. And it
[02:38:40] doesn't mean he wasn't a prophet of the
[02:38:42] most high. But when you're told to find
[02:38:44] your replacement because you won't obey,
[02:38:45] that is that kind of smells like a
[02:38:47] disqualification.
[02:38:49] >> What was the difference between how
[02:38:51] Elijah handled it and how Saul handled
[02:38:52] it?
[02:38:54] >> Elijah obeyed and found and got the
[02:38:56] replacement and Saul tried to kill it.
[02:38:58] >> Yes. And that's really where the crux
[02:39:01] comes down to play.
[02:39:02] >> Got it?
[02:39:03] >> Yeah, you can be disqualified. However,
[02:39:06] if you will not let go and allow
[02:39:09] yourself to be humbled and reset by God,
[02:39:12] then it's going to get a lot worse. A
[02:39:15] lot worse. So, I don't think I'm talking
[02:39:17] to any I don't think I'm currently
[02:39:19] talking to anybody who knows that
[02:39:20] they've disqualified themselves and
[02:39:21] they're trying to figure out how to
[02:39:22] handle it. If you are watching this and
[02:39:24] you're that, you need to call someone
[02:39:25] that you are submitted to. If you can't
[02:39:27] find somebody that you're submitted to,
[02:39:28] wrap your church up and get rid of it.
[02:39:31] >> Okay?
[02:39:32] >> If you have no accountability, what are
[02:39:33] you doing? But if you do have
[02:39:35] accountability, call them now. Confess
[02:39:37] that and talk it and work it out and
[02:39:39] submit to whatever they tell you to do,
[02:39:41] right? Or you're going to be Saul and
[02:39:43] you're going to get slaughtered,
[02:39:46] absolutely destroyed, and you're going
[02:39:48] to get destroyed on the internet and
[02:39:50] you're going to get destroyed in your
[02:39:51] reputation and everything that you once
[02:39:53] held dear is going to be taken from you.
[02:39:56] That sucks. It will be a lot better to
[02:39:59] just submit to the process and
[02:40:02] throw your life into the mercy of God.
[02:40:07] All right. Well, I'm excited for the
[02:40:08] fear of the Lord episode coming up soon
[02:40:09] on the deep end.
[02:40:10] >> Yeah, dude. Even um
[02:40:13] even uh what was that story about the
[02:40:17] this was in the Elijah episode about the
[02:40:19] person who was judged and repented to
[02:40:22] God and God said, "Okay, I won't kill
[02:40:23] you.
[02:40:26] I think that was in the Elijah.
[02:40:27] >> Was that one of the kings that
[02:40:29] >> Yeah.
[02:40:29] >> Yeah. Okay.
[02:40:30] >> Now he took it out on his kids, which is
[02:40:32] dangerous.
[02:40:33] >> Oh, remember that? Yeah. You're talking
[02:40:35] about changing God's mind, probably.
[02:40:36] >> Yeah. But anyways, the wolf, dude, the
[02:40:39] wolf can survive with no one. The wolf
[02:40:42] can survive by itself. They say that the
[02:40:44] wolf is a pack animal, but you also have
[02:40:47] the term lone wolf for a reason. So
[02:40:50] psychologically, you can sort of figure
[02:40:52] out a way to keep your toys,
[02:40:56] which is what Saul was trying to do, but
[02:40:58] God's not going to play around with that
[02:41:00] forever. So we have to have we have to
[02:41:02] have proper accountability. And what
[02:41:03] I've learned from knowing that like I
[02:41:04] have a strong Benjamin type of
[02:41:06] personality like the wolf.
[02:41:09] What's hilarious, dude, is there's a
[02:41:11] there's a series called Lanius
[02:41:14] and it's super good. It's James.
[02:41:17] you don't have time to read it until
[02:41:19] you're 40 years old, so we'll just wait
[02:41:20] for that. But the main character is a
[02:41:23] wolf. And so me and my brother, I was
[02:41:24] like, you got to read the series. But I
[02:41:27] was I've been obsessed with wolves for
[02:41:29] like 15 years.
[02:41:32] >> When I was building TF, my lock screen
[02:41:34] on my phone was a wolf.
[02:41:36] It was really interesting to me that I
[02:41:38] was like, interesting.
[02:41:39] >> That's interesting, actually.
[02:41:40] >> Very interesting. I don't know what that
[02:41:41] means. Huh.
[02:41:42] >> Maybe it means nothing, but I've always
[02:41:44] had a sort of like a
[02:41:46] >> I just think wolves are gangster, man.
[02:41:47] >> Relate to it.
[02:41:48] >> Yeah, they're gangster. Like, you ever
[02:41:50] seen a fool? Like how big a full grown
[02:41:52] wolf is. Freaking massive, dude. And
[02:41:55] they're smart and they're cunning.
[02:41:59] And they're just awesome.
[02:42:01] But they're also they're also really
[02:42:05] stupid when they become
[02:42:08] bloodthirsty. M
[02:42:11] >> they'll kill themselves. You won't kill
[02:42:13] a wolf is the old Eskimo story. Like you
[02:42:16] dip a knife in blood and the wolf begins
[02:42:17] to lick it and it doesn't notice when it
[02:42:20] transitions from the blood on the knife
[02:42:21] to its own blood and it will bleed
[02:42:23] itself out drinking its own blood.
[02:42:25] >> Mhm.
[02:42:27] >> You might be a Benjamin if you relate to
[02:42:29] that. If you cannot stop, you do not
[02:42:34] know what it's like to stop. You are
[02:42:36] addicted to war and chaos. And whenever
[02:42:40] God is like, "I didn't ask you to fight
[02:42:42] that battle." You're like, "Well, I'm
[02:42:43] doing it anyways, but you're going to
[02:42:45] bleed yourself and you're going to die."
[02:42:50] >> Dan, the serpent.
[02:42:52] The serpent. This is what the Bible
[02:42:54] calls Dan. A serpent or a viper. Dan was
[02:42:57] the actually the tribe of judges. So the
[02:43:00] Bible says that Dan will judge his
[02:43:02] people. Mhm.
[02:43:03] >> The judge, one of the main judges that
[02:43:04] we're most familiar with in the Bible is
[02:43:06] also the offspring of Dan, which is
[02:43:08] Samson.
[02:43:09] Let's look at what we can find about
[02:43:11] Dan, shall we?
[02:43:12] >> Mhm.
[02:43:13] >> They fear the perversion of truth. They
[02:43:16] fear being deceived, and if they're not
[02:43:19] careful, they will become cynics,
[02:43:21] accusatory,
[02:43:23] and they will begin to deliver verdicts
[02:43:25] that are correct with the wrong spirit.
[02:43:28] Now, this is interesting because a lot
[02:43:30] of what I see on the internet today with
[02:43:32] the people who are running exposure
[02:43:33] campaigns might actually be right,
[02:43:38] >> but you will know them by their what?
[02:43:40] >> Fruit.
[02:43:41] >> Fruit. And when I look at some of the
[02:43:42] bigger channels and I look at the
[02:43:43] comments of these videos, what I see is
[02:43:46] disgusting predatory little internet
[02:43:49] terrorists. I see no fruit of the
[02:43:51] spirit. I see no one that resembles
[02:43:53] Jesus. I see people who are rallying
[02:43:56] with the commonality of their
[02:43:58] bitterness.
[02:44:00] Oh, you're bitter. I'd like to agree
[02:44:02] with you and get to know you. Birds of a
[02:44:04] feather flock
[02:44:06] >> together. Together. Is this really what
[02:44:09] you want? You might be delivering the
[02:44:12] correct verdicts, but have you paused to
[02:44:13] look at the fruit of your ministry? Have
[02:44:16] you paused to see the birds that are
[02:44:17] flocking to your fruit?
[02:44:21] It's nasty. This is the main shadow of
[02:44:24] the judge is they begin to judge things
[02:44:26] correctly, but because they have kind of
[02:44:29] catered to the idolatry of their own
[02:44:34] intellect, they're now gathering a tribe
[02:44:36] of people who are united only by the
[02:44:38] things that they hate.
[02:44:41] If you take all of the people in Israel,
[02:44:44] when Pilate gave them the option,
[02:44:47] Jesus or
[02:44:50] Barabbus, and the crowd shouts, "Give us
[02:44:54] Barabbus. Give us Barabus." That's your
[02:44:59] YouTube comments.
[02:45:02] We might need to fact check a little bit
[02:45:03] of the spirit behind your judgment.
[02:45:07] What's interesting that I I just keep
[02:45:09] hearing this in my head is that it's the
[02:45:11] culture that's being created that's
[02:45:12] incorrect.
[02:45:13] >> Yeah. It's the fruit that's being built.
[02:45:15] It's the culture. And I I Dustin said
[02:45:17] this at church a few weeks ago. He was
[02:45:19] basically just like I can't remember
[02:45:20] what the third thing was. Maybe you'll
[02:45:21] fill in the blank. Basically, he was
[02:45:23] like culture is what you tolerate and
[02:45:25] celebrate. And one other thing, forget
[02:45:27] what it is.
[02:45:28] >> But
[02:45:31] which goes in to tolerate or oh correct,
[02:45:34] tolerate and celebrate. Maybe I'm
[02:45:36] missing one of them, but like if you saw
[02:45:38] if those three things were in place, I
[02:45:41] don't think we'd have a problem with
[02:45:42] exposure ministry. I think we'd be like,
[02:45:44] where's like the videos of like, man,
[02:45:46] this dude repented. This was awesome.
[02:45:47] Like, this is really great. You don't
[02:45:49] really see that super often. It's kind
[02:45:51] of rare. And then we move on and then I
[02:45:54] guess the the toleration like what do
[02:45:56] they tolerate? Like they're fine. Maybe
[02:45:58] it's because they're fine tolerating the
[02:45:59] people who are willing to crucify
[02:46:01] people. They just tolerate it. I think I
[02:46:02] think the the way that they talk about
[02:46:04] it and some of them do have a legitimate
[02:46:06] gift of judging right and wrong, but
[02:46:08] they're like, "Well, Paul called other
[02:46:09] people out." But dude, honestly, I'm
[02:46:11] going to tell you what Paul would do if
[02:46:13] he were alive today. Okay? Fact check
[02:46:15] this however you want. I don't freaking
[02:46:17] care. Paul, if he had a YouTube channel,
[02:46:19] he would have to stop. He would have to
[02:46:21] stop going after people. And then he
[02:46:22] would turn to you and he would fix the
[02:46:25] comments. He would say, "This is not how
[02:46:27] we treat people who fall." cuz he would
[02:46:30] he would be so disgusted by the rotten
[02:46:31] fruit of everybody bandwagoning
[02:46:34] that he wouldn't even be able to expose
[02:46:36] people publicly anymore because he'd
[02:46:37] have to deal with the people that are
[02:46:39] cheering for it.
[02:46:40] >> He wouldn't be tolerating it anymore.
[02:46:41] >> No, he'd go he would literally turn on
[02:46:43] you and go after the comments. So,
[02:46:45] >> wow.
[02:46:46] >> And this is because Dan falls to
[02:46:49] idolatry every time.
[02:46:51] >> They fall to idolatry. When you have the
[02:46:53] right judgment with the wrong spirit,
[02:46:54] that's an idol. There's a counterfeit
[02:46:56] wisdom that's coming in. It's idolatry.
[02:46:58] We're we're not going to worship Jesus
[02:47:00] anymore. We're going to worship
[02:47:03] theology.
[02:47:06] Your theology is incorrect. And so
[02:47:07] that's all we care about. Well, we we
[02:47:09] don't even now we're not even pausing to
[02:47:11] see where Jesus is. We're just like,
[02:47:12] "Oh, bad theology." And that is now the
[02:47:16] compass for whether somebody knows Jesus
[02:47:18] or doesn't. And this is right on brand
[02:47:20] with with Dan. Dan in um Judges 18, he
[02:47:25] migrates up north.
[02:47:27] He sets up a false priesthood
[02:47:30] and he builds an alternative worship
[02:47:32] system and he leads people into
[02:47:34] idolatry.
[02:47:36] Now,
[02:47:39] I'm going to say this really quick and
[02:47:40] then I want to move on.
[02:47:44] There's a reason that Dan is absent from
[02:47:48] Revelation.
[02:47:54] This one is worse.
[02:47:57] This shadow is worse. You better be you
[02:47:59] better be careful. If God's going to put
[02:48:02] you into a position as a judge and you
[02:48:05] judge with the wrong spirit,
[02:48:08] that's that's bad. Uh Nefali, the deer,
[02:48:12] it's too heavy. You good?
[02:48:13] >> This is great.
[02:48:14] >> The deer.
[02:48:16] Um,
[02:48:18] I was just on a coaching call with
[02:48:20] someone and uh I'm already starting to
[02:48:23] like learn how to use some of this
[02:48:24] because I'm asking God like what is this
[02:48:27] person? What's what are they called? And
[02:48:29] I'm trying to fact check it against
[02:48:31] their history and what they tell me.
[02:48:33] >> But the deer fears captivity and
[02:48:37] heaviness. And and the reason is because
[02:48:40] like a Joseph, they go through such
[02:48:43] dysfunction often times because they
[02:48:45] have to be taught healing. The the best
[02:48:48] healers, if you've noticed this, the
[02:48:50] best healers are the ones who were sick.
[02:48:53] You will never find somebody with a with
[02:48:55] the level of faith for barrenness as
[02:48:57] somebody who was barren and could not
[02:48:58] figure it out. You'll never figure out
[02:49:00] somebody with as much faith for God to
[02:49:02] heal cancer as somebody who almost died
[02:49:03] from cancer. So they go through
[02:49:06] sometimes the very thing that they're
[02:49:07] called to unlock for other people. And
[02:49:10] this one's frustrating and it's sad
[02:49:12] because Nali is usually marked by a fall
[02:49:16] and darkness and difficulty. But when
[02:49:19] they finally surrender to God's plan,
[02:49:22] promoted back up into bringing freedom
[02:49:25] to other people. And so their strengths
[02:49:27] are obviously
[02:49:30] uh oftentimes not obviously um freedom.
[02:49:35] They are they love bringing freedom to
[02:49:36] other people and they're they're really
[02:49:38] obsessed with beauty and expression. And
[02:49:40] I think a lot of times if you have
[02:49:44] experienced abuse before um once your
[02:49:47] heart heals from this you can see beauty
[02:49:50] like no one else can see. When you've
[02:49:53] gone through suffering like at this
[02:49:54] level at the hands of other people and
[02:49:57] you heal everything's has you everything
[02:50:00] has this different tone you can see
[02:50:02] beauty everywhere they have um the
[02:50:04] ability to to encourage to speak and
[02:50:08] really what they are is I think a lot of
[02:50:10] this personality is like they bring uh
[02:50:14] transition they're usually called into
[02:50:17] moments of transition once you heal like
[02:50:19] they're called into moments of
[02:50:20] transition to oversee and to what is the
[02:50:23] transition? It's when you're leaving one
[02:50:25] season and entering another one and you
[02:50:26] have to have freedom from the old to get
[02:50:27] into the new.
[02:50:28] >> Their fall line is going to be escapism
[02:50:30] and self-expression. So when you look at
[02:50:33] these pastors who are uh
[02:50:36] they're like LGBTQ pastors and they're
[02:50:40] no one has any lines and there's no
[02:50:42] right or wrong and they're just like
[02:50:43] everyone is walk you usually see like a
[02:50:45] deer type of personality who is they've
[02:50:47] been through suffering and abuse and
[02:50:48] they are so afraid of heaviness and
[02:50:51] drawing a line that they'll escape
[02:50:53] through avoidance. Freedom is used
[02:50:55] irresponsibly. It is for freedom that
[02:50:57] Christ set us free. But there are some
[02:50:59] things that you you can't just accept
[02:51:03] because you want freedom so bad, like
[02:51:05] sin.
[02:51:08] >> So it's not out of a place of being
[02:51:10] rejected. They're not afraid of being
[02:51:12] rejected necessarily.
[02:51:13] >> It's it's more of a fear of
[02:51:17] rejecting other people because they were
[02:51:19] rejected.
[02:51:20] >> Oh, okay. So it's learning the wrong
[02:51:22] lesson from the wrong thing.
[02:51:23] >> Yeah. It's freedom used in an
[02:51:25] irresponsible way.
[02:51:26] >> Wow. It's it's freedom that wasn't it's
[02:51:28] not actual freedom. It's just they don't
[02:51:30] they're avoiding any thing that looks
[02:51:33] like or smells like what they had to
[02:51:34] walk through and they usually require if
[02:51:39] they don't heal from it they they're
[02:51:40] these are the people that require um
[02:51:43] pain to move forward. So they become
[02:51:45] they develop crisis identities because
[02:51:46] they uh they begin to re relate more
[02:51:49] with their crisises than they do their
[02:51:51] victories.
[02:51:53] This sounds like this is where you
[02:51:54] probably, correct me if I'm wrong, is
[02:51:55] this where you get like victimhood from
[02:51:57] and gentle parenting from? Probably.
[02:51:59] >> Yeah. Nice. Okay, that helps. That
[02:52:01] explains a lot.
[02:52:01] >> Yeah. Asher, the olive tree. This person
[02:52:05] is uh known from scripture for
[02:52:10] nourishment. So, Asher talked about like
[02:52:12] you basically have food in abundance,
[02:52:15] but not abundance of prosperity, but
[02:52:16] abundance of food. So, nourishment,
[02:52:18] generosity, hospitality. These guys are
[02:52:20] epic at hospitality. I think Lindsay has
[02:52:23] a lot of some of this in here. Um cuz if
[02:52:26] you know my wife, she's like she'll she
[02:52:28] makes every party better. She makes
[02:52:30] everything better and everyone feels
[02:52:31] better when she's around. She just can
[02:52:33] see what you need. You you have a little
[02:52:35] bit of this, I think, too.
[02:52:36] >> Interestingly enough, because you're
[02:52:38] always scoping the room for what someone
[02:52:39] needs.
[02:52:40] >> Always. Is that true?
[02:52:43] >> Yes. And it comes back to even some of
[02:52:45] the Neptally thing that you were just
[02:52:46] talking about where is that what No. Was
[02:52:47] that the previous one? Yep.
[02:52:48] >> Yeah. is like cuz that was me when I was
[02:52:50] a kid. Like I was the one that was
[02:52:52] completely like not really noticed that
[02:52:54] much.
[02:52:54] >> Yeah. The fear of Asher is scarcity.
[02:52:58] Scarcity. And the shadow is an addiction
[02:53:00] to comfort and overindulgence and uh
[02:53:03] passivity and people pleasing. And you
[02:53:06] tend to but you're not people pleasing
[02:53:08] because you don't want to reject them.
[02:53:09] You're people pleasing because it makes
[02:53:10] you feel good about yourself.
[02:53:13] >> The why is different. The lubricant here
[02:53:15] is is going to be atmosphere and
[02:53:17] abundance. You're very con you're very
[02:53:18] concerned at all times with is the
[02:53:20] atmosphere enriching, nourishing, is the
[02:53:22] atmosphere good. There's a lot of
[02:53:24] discernment can come into this person as
[02:53:26] well because they can feel the
[02:53:27] atmosphere.
[02:53:29] They can feel it. I think you do have
[02:53:30] more of this.
[02:53:31] >> I have more than I realized. Yeah,
[02:53:32] >> you have more of this than you think.
[02:53:34] But but when resources feel scarce, they
[02:53:36] they tend to retreat into
[02:53:39] self-medication and self-comfort.
[02:53:41] There's things that they do that feel
[02:53:42] good.
[02:53:44] And it's when they feel scarcity that
[02:53:46] they retreat into those things. They
[02:53:48] become deeply insecure when scarcity is
[02:53:51] present.
[02:53:51] >> Oh, great. Um,
[02:53:54] and when they become insecure, they
[02:53:56] avoid friction at all costs. They don't
[02:53:58] want to rock the boat at all. It's a
[02:54:00] slow fall.
[02:54:03] >> Yeah.
[02:54:04] >> Did you see that coming?
[02:54:06] >> No.
[02:54:06] >> Neither did I.
[02:54:07] >> But this is the way that it's designed
[02:54:08] to work. This is good.
[02:54:09] >> Yeah.
[02:54:10] >> This is validating the
[02:54:11] >> Yeah. Cuz yesterday you were like, I
[02:54:12] don't know what any of this means. And I
[02:54:14] think we're starting to get like the
[02:54:15] current Gad. The Raider. This is another
[02:54:18] tribe. The Raider. This is frontline
[02:54:20] grit. Persistence. These people are um
[02:54:24] are these people are the ones that
[02:54:26] survive longer than everyone else. Are
[02:54:28] we running out of time on the cameras?
[02:54:30] >> Yeah.
[02:54:30] >> Holy cow.
[02:54:31] >> That's okay.
[02:54:31] >> This is our first one, isn't it? That
[02:54:33] we've run out of space.
[02:54:34] >> Yeah, we're past 3 hours.
[02:54:35] >> Gad is uh You wanted it to be long. If
[02:54:38] you like longer episodes, let us know.
[02:54:41] Yeah, we could do part one and part Z.
[02:54:43] Gad is the one that just doesn't quit.
[02:54:45] Doesn't quit. You never quit. You're
[02:54:48] you're like dying and you won't quit.
[02:54:51] This is your shadow. You fear being
[02:54:53] overwhelmed because you frequently put
[02:54:55] yourself into situations that are
[02:54:57] overwhelming.
[02:55:00] You you fear collapse because you're
[02:55:02] always carrying weight when no one else
[02:55:05] is carrying the weight. And you you're
[02:55:08] necessarily afraid of collapse. And so
[02:55:09] you have a hypervigilance,
[02:55:11] just a survivalism,
[02:55:14] rugged survivalism. And the reason is
[02:55:17] because you'd never rest and you are
[02:55:21] drawn to things that
[02:55:24] no one else is doing. Everyone else has
[02:55:28] quit. So these people are typically
[02:55:29] like, if no one else has been able to
[02:55:31] fix the problem,
[02:55:33] sign me up.
[02:55:36] >> Nice.
[02:55:36] >> All right. You can see why you want this
[02:55:38] person on your team, though.
[02:55:39] >> Yeah.
[02:55:40] >> Because they're absolutely gifted at
[02:55:41] rebuilding under pressure when no one
[02:55:43] else could do it.
[02:55:45] >> But the m the problem is is if all the
[02:55:47] five offices are raiders,
[02:55:50] >> every volunteer is going to burn out
[02:55:52] every 3 months.
[02:55:52] >> Yeah.
[02:55:53] >> You know, but you need one or two
[02:55:56] because if not, you're not going to do
[02:55:57] any hard things. You got to have this
[02:55:58] archetype on your team
[02:56:00] >> somewhere. So, here's the lubricant
[02:56:02] here, and you're not going to like it if
[02:56:03] this is your personality type, is rest.
[02:56:06] understanding rest. Take a Sabbath.
[02:56:08] Everyone should take a Sabbath, but you
[02:56:10] more than anyone else need to fight all
[02:56:12] of the time for the way that it makes
[02:56:15] your energy production work. It's not a
[02:56:17] psychological thing. It's like in your
[02:56:18] body. And so, you need a rhythm of
[02:56:20] fighting than resting. You need to learn
[02:56:22] how to rest. You need to learn how to
[02:56:24] not accept the project because you
[02:56:26] already have seven other projects and
[02:56:28] you've committed to those seven other
[02:56:30] things. So, stop creating new
[02:56:31] businesses.
[02:56:32] Don't do that. Stop signing up. stop
[02:56:35] accepting the roster for a second. Like,
[02:56:37] let yourself settle down. The fall line
[02:56:41] for this person, and I think a lot of
[02:56:43] pastors relate with this one, is you
[02:56:47] become burnout. You become the fight.
[02:56:50] You never take moments of rest because
[02:56:52] it feels like you're dying. Peace feels
[02:56:54] like you're stealing. Resting feels like
[02:56:57] you're letting people down. How many
[02:56:59] pastors do you know that will not take a
[02:57:01] break because they're afraid of what
[02:57:02] what will happen to people? They'll
[02:57:04] leave or let them down. So, you burn
[02:57:07] yourself out. You have full-on PTSD from
[02:57:10] trying to rest. That's this person.
[02:57:12] Then, Reuben, this is the firstborn.
[02:57:15] This person is he forfeits through
[02:57:18] sexual immorality. And you know, the
[02:57:21] only strength of a Reuben is high
[02:57:22] potential.
[02:57:24] So, this is a straight warning. you
[02:57:26] should study Reuben because they're
[02:57:27] impulsive instabil and sta unstable and
[02:57:31] they end up giving away their authority
[02:57:33] through lack of restraint. So there's
[02:57:34] not a lot of like great things about
[02:57:36] this person and then Simeon which is the
[02:57:38] blade. And so you have you have one
[02:57:43] who is
[02:57:45] unrestrained and then you have the other
[02:57:47] that falls the exact same way due to
[02:57:49] zeal overzealousness. There's no
[02:57:51] container around it. In Genesis 34, they
[02:57:55] talk about this that like Simeon
[02:57:57] basically is like uh something bad
[02:58:00] happened and Simeon is like genocide
[02:58:02] everyone, kill everyone.
[02:58:05] >> Why?
[02:58:06] >> Because he's the blade. Is
[02:58:08] >> he like a purist?
[02:58:10] >> He's just a zealot.
[02:58:11] >> Oh, okay.
[02:58:12] >> But there's no balance.
[02:58:14] >> Oh,
[02:58:14] >> with with that.
[02:58:16] >> So, we see sometimes people like this
[02:58:18] that are newly saved. They kind of just
[02:58:20] got into the faith and they began to
[02:58:22] become so zealous
[02:58:24] and there's no mercy.
[02:58:27] Okay. Well, you you're going to stay the
[02:58:28] blade and you will fall as the blade and
[02:58:30] you'll fall on your own blade.
[02:58:32] >> U so this is where we have a warning
[02:58:33] here of like you need governance. You
[02:58:36] need structure. What determines whether
[02:58:39] there is judgment or mercy because what
[02:58:42] God desires all times is mercy.
[02:58:47] So how do you fit into that? Like what?
[02:58:51] He's just going to kill everyone. Like
[02:58:52] is that is that it? These are the people
[02:58:54] who are unfortunately deconstructing.
[02:58:57] Throw up the whole church. The baby
[02:59:00] needs to go out with the bathwater. But
[02:59:02] it's a real human being. We don't care.
[02:59:03] Throw it out. We don't want the bath
[02:59:05] water anymore. And we don't even care
[02:59:06] about the baby because the whole thing
[02:59:08] is broken. Burn it and we'll build
[02:59:10] something else later. Okay. God's not
[02:59:12] going to use that.
[02:59:15] What's it good for?
[02:59:17] >> Nothing. Oh. Okay. Nothing. Zeal has to
[02:59:20] be contained. It's got to move into a
[02:59:22] Benjamin. It's got to move into a Judah.
[02:59:24] It's got to move into something with
[02:59:25] real understanding of the heart of God.
[02:59:28] So, this is the person who understands
[02:59:29] the the rules and the ways of God, but
[02:59:32] not the heart of God. That's why it's
[02:59:34] usually like new Christians, new people
[02:59:35] who convert into the faith or you're
[02:59:37] raised in an environment where this is
[02:59:38] how it is. So, what is it good for?
[02:59:40] Well, Simeon is disqualified, too. So,
[02:59:42] nothing good comes from that either. So,
[02:59:44] nothing. I think these two are like,
[02:59:46] don't stay stuck here.
[02:59:48] Don't say stuck where you're you uh
[02:59:51] forfeit away what God's asking you to do
[02:59:54] because you can't control your appetite.
[02:59:57] Don't say stuck where you control your
[02:59:58] appetite appetite but you kill everyone
[03:00:01] else who doesn't control theirs. So we
[03:00:03] have the dichotoies of the two who fall.
[03:00:06] Can you speak to just I know I'm so
[03:00:08] sorry. I I've
[03:00:09] >> This is long because of you, bro.
[03:00:10] >> I know. I know it's my fault. I'm not
[03:00:12] blaming you when I'm on date night. I
[03:00:13] promise.
[03:00:14] >> But Heather's gonna kill me. Well, and
[03:00:16] me too. Um, but don't worry, we have
[03:00:18] Habachi coming, but we're going to it so
[03:00:20] I can learn. But, um, can you speak to
[03:00:24] just for a second the weird celebration
[03:00:28] towards zealousness? I personally I feel
[03:00:32] like I've seen it a lot as a kid growing
[03:00:33] up, but I still I'm still seeing it
[03:00:35] online. It's still very common for
[03:00:37] people to either be like newly saved or
[03:00:39] they're like really young and so they're
[03:00:41] like like, "Yeah, he's in training." But
[03:00:43] that zealousness is then like it's
[03:00:46] platformed to such a degree that it's
[03:00:48] like it's it's like yeah we should just
[03:00:51] like it just becomes like this extremism
[03:00:54] thing and I don't know to me it feels
[03:00:57] like we're just trying to take the easy
[03:00:58] way out. Like do you have thoughts on
[03:01:00] that that you feel like are helpful to
[03:01:02] share?
[03:01:02] >> Yeah. So all of there's Levi has a lot
[03:01:06] of zeal.
[03:01:07] >> Yeah.
[03:01:07] >> Um Benjamin has a lot of zeal. Gad has a
[03:01:10] lot of zeal. Dan has a lot of zeal. But
[03:01:12] we can look at the ones that are
[03:01:14] disqualified. So Simeon is disqualified
[03:01:16] and Gad uh Dan is disqualified. So that
[03:01:18] leaves us with Benjamin, Levi, and
[03:01:21] Judah.
[03:01:23] These are the main. So we have five that
[03:01:25] are like known for their zeal. Two of
[03:01:27] them are disqualified.
[03:01:28] >> Mhm.
[03:01:28] >> Why are they disqualified?
[03:01:31] Dan is disqualified because it's zeal
[03:01:33] that turns into idolatry.
[03:01:36] Simeon is disqualified because there's
[03:01:38] no mercy ever. There's no restoration.
[03:01:41] Like God's heart's not even in the
[03:01:42] picture.
[03:01:43] >> And so you have these three.
[03:01:45] >> Levi, great zeal for God's house. Let it
[03:01:49] consume me.
[03:01:50] >> It's great. David had this.
[03:01:52] >> It's redirected is what you're saying.
[03:01:53] >> It's redirected to heaven.
[03:01:55] >> So David was extremely like what you're
[03:01:58] talking about, which is like prominent
[03:02:00] zeal. David had a ton of that. Let I
[03:02:03] will put nothing unclean before my eyes.
[03:02:07] Nothing.
[03:02:10] But then he sleeps with a naked woman
[03:02:12] who's not his wife.
[03:02:14] And how what is what's what's handled?
[03:02:16] Does he kill himself?
[03:02:19] Does he disqualify himself? No. He
[03:02:21] submits to what God's opinion is about
[03:02:23] it about the matter. You have the the
[03:02:26] Levites who are fierce protectors of
[03:02:29] holiness
[03:02:31] and unfortunately they're put into
[03:02:33] positions where they have to protect God
[03:02:36] and his place. Even if that means they
[03:02:39] have to make really difficult decisions
[03:02:41] with the 3,000 people at the golden calf
[03:02:43] and all that stuff, they have to they're
[03:02:45] put into a rough spot, but they have to
[03:02:47] they have to follow their their their
[03:02:50] commission to do that. They don't
[03:02:52] genocide all of the people of Israel.
[03:02:54] They just take out what needs to be
[03:02:55] removed. I think people like
[03:03:00] the
[03:03:02] return to like when you pendulum swing,
[03:03:04] you have this pendulum swing that's
[03:03:05] happening and we've gotten so loose
[03:03:06] culturally that it pendulum swings like
[03:03:08] God will forgive you and everything is
[03:03:09] fine and
[03:03:10] >> too tame. It's it's it's just fake. It's
[03:03:12] it's it's um
[03:03:16] you have a responsibility to live the
[03:03:18] way God wants you to live and I'm sorry
[03:03:20] about that. like
[03:03:22] what you do
[03:03:24] and there's going to be correction and
[03:03:26] consequences if you don't. But then that
[03:03:29] doesn't necessarily disqualify you from
[03:03:31] salvation because if salvation doesn't
[03:03:33] cover that, it's not really salvation.
[03:03:35] And so it's this very complicated type
[03:03:37] of situation. And what we're trying to
[03:03:39] get to is the heart. But it's a lot
[03:03:41] easier intellectually to just be like,
[03:03:43] if you don't follow all of the rules all
[03:03:45] of the time, then you're going to die
[03:03:46] and go to hell. And that's where you
[03:03:48] have the Simeon type thing.
[03:03:51] Okay? Yes, the New Testament says to
[03:03:53] hate what is evil and to love what is
[03:03:55] good. But what if God loves somebody
[03:03:57] with a heart that is wicked?
[03:04:01] Then you're in an impossible situation
[03:04:04] because it can't conform to your
[03:04:05] intellectual worldview. So what God is
[03:04:08] now, he's going to break your capacity
[03:04:10] to understand because he's going to
[03:04:12] select both. He's going to go after the
[03:04:14] one person whose heart is desperately
[03:04:15] wicked and deceptive. That's what the
[03:04:17] Bible says about our hearts. It's can it
[03:04:20] can it's it can self-contaminate a
[03:04:22] person. But he'll leave the 99 to go
[03:04:24] after that. So he'll leave the holy to
[03:04:26] go after the wicked.
[03:04:29] Put that in your pipes. Smoke on it for
[03:04:30] a couple of days. And you tell me what
[03:04:32] it means.
[03:04:34] But it's too hard, man. It's too hard
[03:04:36] because now we have to I have to walk
[03:04:39] and I have to chew gum. And I just can't
[03:04:41] do it. I have to like pause and chew gum
[03:04:43] or I can walk and not chew. And it's
[03:04:45] like, well, we've got no nuance. We
[03:04:47] can't walk and chew gum. That we now the
[03:04:50] Bible contradicts itself is. So, we have
[03:04:53] just lazy intellectual people who can't
[03:04:56] hold both at the same time. And really,
[03:04:58] it comes down to like God, what do you
[03:04:59] want to do about this situation? You
[03:05:01] know what I mean?
[03:05:02] >> Mhm. Okay. I don't know the pastors or
[03:05:04] the people you're talking about or the
[03:05:05] influencers, but um yeah, maybe maybe
[03:05:10] what they're maybe it's a Levite who God
[03:05:12] has called them to consecrate everything
[03:05:14] and give it away. And if they're not
[03:05:16] careful, they could go online and be
[03:05:18] like, "If you don't give everything
[03:05:19] away, you're going to hell." And you
[03:05:22] don't necessarily have a Simeon, you
[03:05:23] just have a really immature Levite.
[03:05:26] >> That makes sense.
[03:05:28] >> Yeah,
[03:05:29] >> that's really helpful.
[03:05:30] >> Cool. We got to get you to date night.
[03:05:32] God, thank you for teaching us. Thank
[03:05:36] you for teaching me. I will never take
[03:05:38] for granted uh even while I'm talking
[03:05:40] about this stuff, the things that you
[03:05:42] give me, Holy Spirit, that are actually
[03:05:43] really applicable for me. And I just
[03:05:45] don't take that for granted. Thank you
[03:05:46] for showing up and for giving us your
[03:05:48] wisdom. We don't have to go out and and
[03:05:50] experience uh hardship to get wisdom.
[03:05:53] The Bible says it's a gift and we can
[03:05:54] ask for it. And so we ask for some
[03:05:56] wisdom. We ask that you would give us
[03:05:58] more wisdom. Would you help us to
[03:06:00] discern the times and would you help us
[03:06:02] to understand what your opinions are
[03:06:04] about the matters that we have to deal
[03:06:06] with? I pray that you would give us your
[03:06:08] opinion about everything that we're
[03:06:10] involved with, whether it's politics or
[03:06:11] business or ministry or music or
[03:06:13] entertainment. Give us your opinion. We
[03:06:16] we would rather have your opinion than
[03:06:17] our opinion. But first to do that, we
[03:06:20] have to humble ourselves. And we have to
[03:06:22] say that that our opinions are not the
[03:06:23] the top of the totem pole. Your opinion
[03:06:25] is the top of the totem pole. And so we
[03:06:28] submit to you and we submit to what you
[03:06:30] say about things and to what you are
[03:06:32] wanting to do in every moment that we
[03:06:34] live. Please help us understand this
[03:06:36] material.
[03:06:38] Please protect us from getting lost and
[03:06:42] trying to understand all of the the
[03:06:44] different ways that you are moving on
[03:06:45] the earth. We want to know what you want
[03:06:47] to tell us and we want to know what you
[03:06:49] want us to know and we'll stay focused
[03:06:51] on that. Thank you for your son. Thank
[03:06:52] you for Jesus. Thank you for the
[03:06:54] sacrifice. We will honor it and we will
[03:06:56] trust you. Amen.