# ODEON & HEDGE-IoT Workshop | Scaling Digital Innovation & Connectivity in Energy Services

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5H8nISmFm8

[00:10] Okay.
[00:12] So I think everyone uh it's already uh in.
[00:17] So good morning everyone and welcome to today's workshop towards a digital powered green transition scaling innovation and connectivity in energy services.
[00:28] Thank you very much for uh join joining us today.
[00:30] My name is Rael Castan, communication manager of Orian project and together with Lucasin Osik, we will co-odderate today's online workshop.
[00:41] This event is jointly organized by Orisan Europe projects Orium and H IoT uh and with the participation of other projects Tina and INCM.
[00:53] All these projects are funded by European Commission under the ORS Europe program and today's session will last around 1 hour and a half.
[01:00] So welcome everyone.
[01:06] So during this uh workshop we will explore how digital technologies can
[01:11] support the green energy transition in Europe.
[01:14] We will discuss topics such as uh uh artificial intelligence uh enabled energy services, interoperable digital platforms, a secure and trusted data sharing and challenges of connecting uh energy sorry connecting energy services across multiple uh stakeholders.
[01:39] Uh the goal of today's session uh is to exchange ideas, share experiences and promote collaboration between projects working on uh Europe's future energy ecosystem.
[01:50] We are very happy to have you with us today.
[01:56] So um before we begin uh let me briefly guide you through the today's agenda.
[02:00] We will start with uh an introduction from the represent a representative of DG connect at European Commission Mr. Eveet Esveettola followed by a live pool uh to
[02:15] get uh know our audience a little bit a little better.
[02:18] Then we will continue with uh appropriate presentations in CMA Oonu and HIO.
[02:23] So please note that you can submit uh your questions in the chat throughout the presentations and we will address them during the panel discussion.
[02:36] Following the presentations we will uh transition into a moderate um panel discussion with four speakers uh with our speakers and we will uh dive deeper into these topics and answer your questions.
[02:54] So as we mentioned today we are joined uh by representatives from four or Europe projects.
[03:00] uh representing the organizers of the event we have Mo Son uh from Odium project and also Nicolas Hides from Ho and also representing the guest uh projects we have uh also Elias
[03:18] Safo Polus from Tinu and York Hardness from INCM.
[03:25] So thank you very much for for participate in this project.
[03:32] So now uh we are very pleased to welcome Mr. Esveet Evetolaf policy officer of D connect at European Commission.
[03:40] Thank you very much uh for joining us today is the floor is yours.
[03:46] Yes, thank you. Good morning indeed.
[03:50] I'm very glad that I had the opportunity to speak at this event and as somebody personally involved from the commission site in all these projects.
[03:59] I'm u I'm probably the the best one to explain the vision of the commission in this respect and and how this these projects fit and how how this gathering of the projects and common work of the projects also fit into our vision and ambitions.
[04:17] So first of all of course always to say
[04:19] that we have our big guidelines within which we work and and that are defining our our direction and our actions initiatives.
[04:29] So of course here we're talking on one side for greening.
[04:31] So there we have the the big rock which is the European green deal and under it the different initiatives which I'm not going to list but things like F4 55 and all the others that are defining targets environmental and and energy targets.
[04:49] then we have also of course digital targets uh digital digitalization as a topic and then we have Europe people digital age and under it again different initiatives like the European strategy for data which evolved into a data union strategy recently.
[05:07] Then we have some legislation the data act and and other data governance acts etc.
[05:18] uh I'm going to go into
[05:22] The other topic of today AI, but before just to mention that also the two energy and digital meet and several of our communications that we have sent out and strategies and initiatives.
[05:38] Of course, one was the digitalization of energy action plan, and then another one is in the preparation now, it's the strategic open politization and AI in the energy sector.
[05:48] So they're working together to define how digital and AI will be used in the energy sector.
[05:57] And then if we look at on the side of AI, uh, we have a number of initiatives, legislations and actions.
[06:06] So already last year we started the initiative overarching initiative of the AI continent, which includes the so-called AI factories and AI giga factories.
[06:17] So the idea is to build AI capacity at
[06:24] scale in Europe which will provide compute data and tools to innovators and then again it's one of the topics today the innovators and then of course this idea is to reduce our dependence on non-EU infrastructure.
[06:38] I mean it's not a secret that the biggest players even in Europe nowadays are the American hyperscalers.
[06:45] So this of course not a very comfortable situation to be with for us and for our sovereignty.
[06:53] Then again last year we started the apply strategy.
[06:58] This is a bit different from the previous one that I described.
[06:59] it falls within it within the continent.
[07:04] But so it is about deploying AI to the different sectors have it perform in real sectors in real life in real workloads and we have piloted stuff.
[07:16] We're still piloting but it is to have real deployments in in commercial environment and then of course the idea is that this
[07:24] boost productivity in these key sectors.
[07:27] So not just to implement it but to have real value in these sectors and of course to support innovators such as memes and and other startups and public service etc within this sector.
[07:43] and I here of course the strategic road map for AI and digitalization sector also post and supports works together with the play strategy and then this year we had the cloud and AI development act which is about scaling up cloud and data centers in Europe again providing capacity.
[08:03] It should be sustainable and secure and enable AI deployments at scale.
[08:09] So another thing we shouldn't forget of course to always say that when we talk about digitization and AI and energy they are the two flows between them.
[08:20] So energy powers AI and digitalization
[08:25] and digitization AI supports the energy system by optimizing it by providing computing power connectivity etc.
[08:34] uh that allows you to deal with the increased complexity nowadays with all these distributed systems everywhere.
[08:41] Uh consumers, renewables, storage, you name it.
[08:45] It's completely different system which cannot be managed the managed the old ways.
[08:52] Um and of course when I mentioned renewables and so on we should remember that the goals is when we're doing all these things within the energy system we're using utilization is to achieve decarbonization to manage the decentralization to increase utilization etc.
[09:11] And of course they are already results to some extent.
[09:14] We have been doing this for years.
[09:16] Not necessarily in the most modern ways now with AI but it what was available before but of course it needs to go a lot further and that's why we're
[09:26] pushing with new initiatives etc.
[09:32] it is also to lower energy costs both for businesses in order to be to stay competitive and for the consumers so it's not to squeeze their purchasing power and and their wallets reduce emissions.
[09:48] So be able to integrate more renewables and to use more efficiently and more of their available capacity because we know that even now we have enough capacity renewables you know to power the whole system but we cannot because it's cartailed it's lost somewhere else this will help it to optimize it further and then we have of course the new thing of EVs coming which is a massive consumer and a massive storage and a massive flexibility possibility etc.
[10:18] But the network and the digital overlay on it need to be able to handle this.
[10:23] It's not just so simple to plug in.
[10:26] It's not like having two
[10:28] nuclear stations that you have to manage sending energy to an endpoint.
[10:33] And we want to empower consumers to use all these things.
[10:38] So within their home to have an energy management to use their vehicle as a flexible thing uh edge point in the the grid and the energy system.
[10:50] to have some tools to manage their efficiency cost savings.
[10:55] and for all these that I described we have had all these projects that you representing here are going to be presenting and they're forming different different aspects of this future edge system and we said we want to put them all together.
[11:10] They need to work together.
[11:11] So we have all their own hedge which are doing dealing with distributed energy system using AI for this or AI ad and machine learning and so on.
[11:24] So that's one aspect and we have the twin which has the the digital twin of the
[11:31] energy system the European energy system
[11:34] and then we also have the data space
[11:36] which allows to connect to exchange data
[11:41] uh between any two points within the energy system.
[11:47] Um so sometimes it will be connecting
[11:49] within this or system between two end points etc.
[11:53] So that's why we're talking this combined system together with AI
[11:58] also with it the possibility to use AI services generative AI services and so
[12:04] any new AI that is coming uh and this we call the so-called digital backbone or spine
[12:09] I mean we have to choose some name in order to represent what it is and and really needs to to advance to this kind of overlay digital system combining all these components that I just mentioned
[12:23] it can't do without any of them.
[12:26] They're all needed.
[12:28] They are all combined and we have developed them within this project
[12:31] projects that are talking today for for years now.
[12:37] They just have to mature into this common layer and it's not possible to continue the old way some card coded scatter system in the grid and then some other system somewhere else.
[12:52] No, it needs to be a completely overlay digital system based on digital principles very flexible to be able to connect all these end points.
[12:59] It's not about only grit and operators necessary etc.
[13:03] The flows will be in all directions.
[13:05] So when you have a consumer to consumer it's another flow that doesn't exist today at all.
[13:10] Not to mention that even consumer to grid is not that widely deployed etc.
[13:17] So all this is increased complexity that requires a new approach.
[13:19] But we have all the gradients, all the building blocks.
[13:23] There's nothing so new.
[13:26] What is new of it is of course AI and especially the the generative AI
[13:31] that needs to develop further.
[13:34] But the majority of the rest we have and then as you know or for the ones that don't know the commission is committed to this vision to this approach.
[13:44] So of course for this we have calls and upcoming projects in the pipeline.
[13:50] So there is a call for this first stage of digital backbone combining all these things and working together with them because you see the projects are still ongoing which is under evaluation and to start soon.
[14:04] and then they will be again without commitment in this stage because the commission cannot commit before it's published.
[14:12] but in the pipeline there are two more pro calls for proposals or projects on the same topic.
[14:18] So building up on this and further and of course building up of some other initiatives like what we had in the connected facility the operational digital platforms which is essentially as well part of this digital.
[14:32] it's kind of represented digital backbone as well.
[14:36] So that was a bit my uh introduction.
[14:43] Thank you for the opportunity and I hope to have that you're going to have a good workshop and I'll try to follow as much as possible.
[14:52] Thank you very much Mr. Steoslav uh for this uh insightful in um uh welcome introduction.
[15:00] Um uh actually it's very interesting to hear the European Commission's perspective on these challenges and opportunities and AA certainly appears to be the start of the show in the energy digitalization today even so we cannot leave anyone behind.
[15:17] Uh so now uh now before starting uh let's uh take a few minutes to get know to to each other a little better.
[15:31] So please scan this QR
[15:34] code on the screen and join the our live pool.
[15:37] It will only take a few minutes.
[15:40] So let's start with uh some questions.
[15:45] Give us some minutes.
[15:47] That's even though you can find here the code again.
[15:51] Okay.
[15:51] So, which sector do you represent?
[16:12] Okay.
[16:12] Most of you from the energy sector.
[16:16] sauce maybe
[16:20] let's wait a minute
[16:25] okay
[16:27] I think most of you are from the energy sector and distributor operators or research also
[16:35] Innovation.
[16:38] Okay.
[16:39] Interesting mix of participants today.
[16:43] Also administration.
[16:45] Digital transformation.
[16:45] Okay.
[16:45] So I go uh second one.
[16:50] So what do you see as the key uh digital enabler of the green energy transition?
[17:03] Okay.
[17:03] Unexpected.
[17:06] Artificial intelligent.
[17:27] Okay.
[17:27] Interpability.
[17:39] Okay.
[17:41] So mainly standardization, interoperability and also collaboration uh are the key digital enable energy transition.
[17:50] So next question.
[17:54] So what is the main barrier to escalating energy innovation?
[18:05] Yeah.
[18:35] Okay.
[18:39] Again, regulation, coordination, some boxes.
[18:55] Okay.
[18:59] So, let's go for the last one here.
[18:59] So, what is the biggest challenge in connecting energy data across multiple stakeholders?
[19:30] Okay.
[19:34] Definitely recurring theme today standards also.
[19:43] Okay.
[19:43] Standards interpretability.
[19:55] Okay.
[19:55] So very interesting results for this short live pool.
[20:03] So we come back to the presentation.
[20:06] Thank you very much for your participation.
[20:10] Uh so now let's officially begin today's session.
[20:16] So we will start with uh the uh insem project uh presentation by York partner uh York the floor is yours.
[20:27] Welcome and thank you.
[20:30] Thank you thank you Raquel and I don't want to be in yeah okay if you could mute yourself that would be good because then.
[20:39] Yeah okay so do you want me to show my own slides or are you showing them the
[20:45] ones that I sent
[20:50] Can you can you share the slides please?
[20:53] >> Oh yeah. Okay. Very good. Thank you.
[20:56] Um so uh about the NCMA project just
[21:00] briefly as you know the European
[21:03] Commission in their strategy for data in
[21:05] 2020
[21:06] uh have uh have uh decided recommended
[21:11] the like building uh data spaces for 14
[21:15] critical sectors health manufacturing
[21:18] agriculture finance uh mobility
[21:23] defense recently
[21:25] uh culture heritage and energy and um
[21:29] for us uh so what does that mean? It was
[21:32] defined in very high level terms. Uh
[21:35] it's basically an all about organizing
[21:39] creating common rules at a European
[21:41] level for how to exchange data in which
[21:43] sectors to allow for an EU digital
[21:46] single market and datadriven economies
[21:49] in these sectors. Next.
[21:55] So um in that sense you need to
[21:57] understand that we're operating in the
[21:59] project in SEMA. Project is uh we we do
[22:03] the coordination through University of
[22:05] Applied Sciences Upper Austria. The
[22:07] project started in 2025. It will end in
[22:11] March 2028.
[22:13] And um what INMA aims to do is to create
[22:17] a data space by the sector for the
[22:19] sector. So adopting all the research
[22:22] that has been done on data spaces but
[22:24] also as the dust has cleared up into
[22:27] what we need in terms of flexibleization
[22:30] allowing for citizen energy allowing for
[22:33] uh sharing of energy and uh tackling the
[22:38] critical topics that we see in that
[22:40] transition towards a volatile system
[22:44] um uh and and do a data space by the
[22:47] sector for the sector. So no theoretical
[22:50] uh a data space for a data space sake
[22:53] but a data space that helps that is a
[22:55] means to an end to solve the data
[22:57] integration that problems that we see.
[23:00] We are uh representing 54 partners from
[23:04] 15 member states have a budget of 16
[23:06] million euros out of which 8 million
[23:08] come from the digital euro program and
[23:10] we run more than 14 develop uh
[23:13] deployments in six more than 16 European
[23:16] countries. Next
[23:19] um in inside this strategy for data um
[23:24] it's more it's really remarkable to see
[23:27] how developments materialize. So if you
[23:30] think back to 2020 when the commission
[23:34] envisioned the operationalization of a
[23:37] common European energy data space by
[23:39] 2030.
[23:41] Um they said okay from 2022 to 2025
[23:45] there is the design and uh evaluation of
[23:48] critical data space components
[23:50] represented by projects like one and a
[23:53] share data seller Omega X and Synergies
[23:57] and also Eddi which was also u where we
[24:02] also played a very strong part then from
[24:06] 2025 to 2028 there's the NCMA project
[24:10] for the deployment and the final pilots
[24:12] for the seats. So we are digesting all
[24:15] the learnings from the previous projects
[24:17] and organize them into a uh data space
[24:21] operation model that allows for an EU
[24:24] digital single market for energy.
[24:27] Next.
[24:31] And with our project, we
[24:33] Next. And with our project, we
[24:33] accompanied accompany key legislative
[24:36] and regulatory activities like the
[24:38] network code on demand response which
[24:41] defines the what on how our system is to
[24:44] be flexibleized. Data interpability
[24:46] implementing acts following article 24
[24:49] of the directive. the ongoing data for
[24:52] energy expert group that tackles uh that
[24:56] that should pave the way on the on a
[24:58] stakeholder engagement and and
[25:00] identifies key gaps that we need to fill
[25:03] and uh as this is also a very big uh
[25:06] group in the NCMA project. We see our
[25:09] role into digesting these learnings and
[25:11] alignments and uh do deployments prove
[25:16] uh and reality check these things and
[25:18] feedback to improve the legislation and
[25:22] the regulation next.
[25:26] So these are the 54 partners as you can
[25:29] see very big ones Europe's biggest DSO
[25:31] entities or also Spanish energy
[25:34] association and a big group of like
[25:37] Austrian companies system operators
[25:40] transmission system operator
[25:42] distribution system operators but also
[25:44] businesses that dry that rely on the
[25:47] rich and reliable soil
[25:50] uh that the Austrian ecosystem provides
[25:53] with 150,000 Austrian being part of at
[25:57] least one of the more than 12,000 energy
[26:00] communities very dynamic ecosystem here
[26:03] but also players like Keno technology
[26:06] Volvo technology that are building
[26:08] electric heavy duty vehicles and are
[26:10] facing big challenges there uh Italian
[26:14] DSO Arti
[26:16] um very well known and engineering and
[26:19] and others next
[26:22] um we are covering uh seven key use case
[26:26] areas. Energy efficiency and flexibility
[26:29] management applications. So these
[26:31] classical energy savings applications
[26:33] that are currently uh
[26:37] chained to their home markets um and
[26:41] also u applications that are based on
[26:44] price signals for grid fees for energy
[26:46] tariffs. So they are
[26:50] so there uh we provide these
[26:54] applications a right once run anywhere
[26:56] scenario so that you can write them in
[26:58] one market and apply them in different
[27:01] markets. Same for uh collective self-
[27:04] consumption meaning energy communities,
[27:06] energy sharing uh in close conjunction
[27:09] with an implementation in the
[27:11] deployments for the things that come
[27:13] with the citizen energy package that was
[27:15] published three weeks ago by the
[27:17] commission. Then grid flexibility
[27:19] services realization of flexible
[27:21] connection agreement infrastructures in
[27:24] Austria in Spain in France in Italy
[27:27] together with market-based balancing and
[27:30] local services where we provide one
[27:32] European interface for market
[27:36] participants that want to engage in
[27:38] these flexibleization schemes.
[27:41] um electromobility also I've said that
[27:46] uh then renewables integration mainly
[27:48] about forecasting for big wind farms and
[27:51] uh big PV installations but also uh on
[27:55] the uh on the grid operator and networks
[27:59] and integration planning there we're
[28:01] building on the work of querva with the
[28:03] digital twins and in light AI mainly who
[28:07] are providing uh smart deep
[28:09] reinforcement learning based grid
[28:11] management measurement co-pilots for
[28:13] meshed transmission grids but also they
[28:15] are applying these technologies to the
[28:17] low voltage end and smart sector
[28:20] integration. What happens if we don't
[28:22] think just electricity but also gas
[28:25] district heating and others provide one
[28:28] common and streamlined data space for
[28:31] all these actors. Next.
[28:35] Um, yeah, we said our aim is always to
[28:38] serve for a common API.
[28:41] Uh, meaning that for all the
[28:43] functionalities that energy communities,
[28:45] consultants, system operators
[28:48] uh have, they can uh they should be able
[28:51] to utilize one common interface at
[28:55] different levels. And it should for us
[28:58] it should be as easy for service
[29:01] providers to provide solutions uh a
[29:04] matter of minutes for 5 minutes to uh in
[29:08] to build businesses on top of the
[29:10] possibilities of a participative energy
[29:13] system. And for active European
[29:16] customers, it should be as easy uh to to
[29:21] utilize these possibilities, benefit
[29:23] from them as if they would pay online
[29:26] via PayPal. Next
[29:30] and uh our project uh really aims to
[29:33] tackle the key problem that uh that
[29:36] there is a different degree and form of
[29:40] transposition in key European
[29:42] legislation. That means that uh that we
[29:47] build regulation and legislation in
[29:50] Brussels, very good and visionary uh
[29:54] legislation and then we see more and
[29:56] more that businesses try to utilize
[29:58] these possibilities at European scale
[30:01] but they are not transposed in many
[30:04] member states slowly transposed and very
[30:07] differently. And that is a thing that
[30:09] you can't credibly call an EU digital
[30:12] single market for for energy whilst
[30:15] allowing for principles like
[30:18] subsidiarity and realities political
[30:21] realities. Uh we see the seeds as an
[30:26] important
[30:27] means to an end to get to these things
[30:31] to clarify responsibilities to get to
[30:34] clear liabilities
[30:36] and to uh provide the digital soil that
[30:40] it takes for European companies to
[30:42] emerge and make use of that very good
[30:46] and and uh and uh
[30:52] Yeah. And and I think very um ahead of
[30:56] the time uh vision that comes with the
[31:00] flexibilization of our systems, market
[31:02] based flexibilities, birectional
[31:05] charging and so on. And I think my 10
[31:08] minutes are over now. Uh so I would like
[31:11] to skip the rest of my slides so that
[31:13] the others have
[31:18] >> Okay. Thank you very much y uh York
[31:22] welcome anyways the the session is
[31:25] recorded and also we will share with uh
[31:28] in the uh the the presentations of today
[31:31] so you are welcome to to check out the
[31:34] complete um uh presentation of INCMA
[31:38] thank you very much and now we continue
[31:40] with the project presentation by Moson
[31:44] Mes please
[31:45] >> yes thanks So as Rael has introduced me,
[31:50] I'm Mo San Anton Santon. I'm the project
[31:52] coordinator of of the of the aon project
[31:55] and today's session uh will be
[31:57] presenting how OON contributes mostly to
[31:59] this digital and green transition which
[32:02] is part of the main goal of this
[32:04] workshop focusing on how
[32:06] interoperability data sharing and
[32:08] scalable energy services play an
[32:10] important role in this change of of
[32:13] paradigma. So next please.
[32:18] So Odon brings actually a strong
[32:21] consortium of partner all across Europe
[32:23] combining combining mostly expertise
[32:26] from industry research and also counting
[32:29] with a lot of energy stakeholders.
[32:33] Uh next please
[32:36] just uh for you to be aware of some
[32:39] introductory data about
[32:42] uh we uh count with 35 partners across
[32:47] 13 different countries and this project
[32:49] uh is being run uh during four years and
[32:53] uh the main goal of of our project is to
[32:56] develop and validating AI
[32:59] IoT and edgecloud solutions to support a
[33:03] more resilient and flexible energy
[33:06] system.
[33:08] We are validating all of these sorry the
[33:11] previous
[33:13] uh these solutions through five pilot
[33:15] sites ensuring that uh all the work that
[33:17] we do is not only theoretical but also
[33:19] it's being deployed in real
[33:21] environments. Now yes next please.
[33:28] So as it was highlighted during this uh
[33:31] introduction for the workshop, the
[33:33] energy system is actually under uh
[33:36] undergoing uh profound transformation
[33:39] since we are moving from a centralized
[33:41] uh distributed uh systems.
[33:44] uh we are also moving from passive to
[33:47] active uh participation of the consumers
[33:49] and presumers and also we are seeing
[33:52] some changes across how we are moving
[33:55] from static uh infrastructure to a more
[33:58] datadriven system. This actually creates
[34:02] uh three major challenges highlighted in
[34:04] this slide which is the the scope also
[34:07] which is the expansion of the edge uh
[34:11] counting with uh all our optimizations
[34:14] all the distributed assets in the grid.
[34:17] also the need for a great observability
[34:19] meaning that uh we can have more data
[34:22] accesses from across the the system but
[34:26] also uh the need for coordination for
[34:28] different uh stakeholders in the energy
[34:32] value chain. So this actually plays a a
[34:37] risk uh what as we see it which is the
[34:39] the fragmentation of the system and um
[34:43] this standing risk led us to actually
[34:46] play an important uh attention of how we
[34:50] solution and how all these systems
[34:52] involved can can communicate and can
[34:55] scale up to to innovation. So next slide
[35:00] please.
[35:03] To address these challenges mostly uh
[35:06] Odon develops five um key innovations
[35:10] that uh we take them as the key aspect
[35:13] to uh encourages the digital
[35:15] transformation.
[35:17] So first uh we count with this cloud
[35:20] data uh platform that enables a
[35:22] reference implementation of data spaces.
[35:25] Secondly, uh we come with a catalog of
[35:28] AI artifacts
[35:30] uh which allow machine learning to be
[35:33] deployed and orchestrated across uh the
[35:36] the system. And thirdly, we also address
[35:39] um different energy services for for
[35:42] different ttors for distributed system
[35:44] operators for aggregators and energy
[35:47] communities enabling flexibility and
[35:49] autonomy of them but also to consumers
[35:52] enabling an active participation of the
[35:55] energy markets. So the key idea is that
[35:58] all these services are built on shared
[36:01] data interoperability and AI uh driven
[36:04] optimizations.
[36:05] Uh, next slide please.
[36:12] I think you have to. Yeah, one more
[36:15] time. Okay. So, yeah, no, the previous
[36:17] one. Yeah. Uh, I wanted also to give you
[36:20] an overview of the aon architecture
[36:23] since we work at different levels. So at
[36:26] the edge level um we work with the data
[36:29] generated coming from as mentioned
[36:31] before the all the distributed energy
[36:33] sources and IoT devices connected
[36:36] through our IoT gateway and this allow
[36:40] us actually to um get integrate all
[36:43] these systems while applying at the same
[36:46] time a data minimization principle since
[36:49] we are getting lot of data from
[36:50] different resources and we have to
[36:52] optimize uh this flow of data
[36:55] The key idea is that uh this data is
[36:58] processed locally at the edge uh which
[37:02] actually reduces uh this data
[37:04] transmission and improves efficiency at
[37:06] the same time and at the core of the
[37:08] system as specified before we come with
[37:11] the cloud edge infrastructure with where
[37:13] this orchestration happens.
[37:16] Through this uh cloud edge orchestration
[37:18] and operation management, we coordinate
[37:20] all the data app ops and AI ops through
[37:24] the entire cons continuum which allow us
[37:28] uh or to support uh different
[37:30] environments
[37:31] uh for instance the stakeholders that
[37:33] cannot host their own data space the
[37:36] near age environments but also edge
[37:38] environments at the same time. So the
[37:42] idea is that on top of that also we come
[37:44] with federated AI containers which allow
[37:47] us at the same time to train execute AI
[37:50] pipelines uh so that uh the continuum of
[37:54] this data is coordinated in a fruitful
[37:57] way.
[37:59] So the key value of this architecture is
[38:02] not only um the data management but
[38:05] enabling
[38:06] uh different datadriven energy services
[38:10] so that we can deliver for these uh
[38:13] modules these innovations
[38:16] uh correct uh orchestration data and I
[38:20] AI artifacts that can deliver different
[38:23] services such as flexibility management,
[38:26] predictive maintenance but also the
[38:28] optimization of to booster assets.
[38:31] Um, next slide please.
[38:37] So, uh, Odon as mentioned before is
[38:39] validated in five pilot sites across uh,
[38:43] Europe uh, across Europe. Greece, Spain,
[38:46] Denmark, Ireland and France are the
[38:48] places where we are holding our
[38:51] demonstration activities. So the key
[38:54] aspect of of that is that we have a a
[38:57] fruitful and and detail areas where we
[39:01] can ensure that our solutions are are
[39:04] tested and they can be replicable or
[39:07] across the different uh countries in in
[39:10] Europe.
[39:12] Next slide.
[39:18] So the idea is that uh within the lesson
[39:22] lens that we are actually right now we
[39:25] are in the demonstration phase of of the
[39:27] project that all these data all these
[39:30] results that we can gather from from
[39:32] this demonstration uh sites can be um um
[39:38] let's say extrapolated to to to some
[39:41] lessons that we have been uh gathering
[39:44] across this these few months. So um we
[39:50] have highlighted here several aspects
[39:52] but I just wanted to emphasize that
[39:54] across this uh first phases of the
[39:57] project we have uh identify some
[40:00] interoperability challenges especially
[40:02] when integrating different uh
[40:04] heterogeneous uh systems in the
[40:06] demonstration sites but also we have
[40:09] identified legacy
[40:12] integration
[40:14] uh as a challenge as well during this uh
[40:17] first uh months of of the demonstration
[40:19] activities but also not not to forget
[40:23] how um the regulatory fragmentation in
[40:26] the different countries is also uh
[40:29] playing some difficulties uh to have
[40:32] let's say more uniform
[40:34] European scenario but uh we are
[40:37] targeting these uh different regulatory
[40:39] aspects across the countries as as a way
[40:41] that how we can evolve to a more let's
[40:44] say uniform
[40:46] um uh regulatory
[40:49] framework and also uh how and that's
[40:53] something that we are also uh
[40:55] identifying how citizen engagement um is
[40:59] really important to uh showcase our
[41:02] solutions and to not be losing them on
[41:05] the pathway towards this transformation.
[41:08] Next slide.
[41:13] So uh as part of u the opportunities and
[41:16] synergies how to we can scale our
[41:20] project to uh let's say scale uh the
[41:24] impact the collaboration across the
[41:26] project. So we are and that's part of
[41:30] the today workshop as well how we can um
[41:35] build some synergies with other projects
[41:37] learning uh from them from edge IoT our
[41:40] sister project how they have been
[41:43] structuring the shared IoT
[41:45] infrastructure and the different edge
[41:47] infrastructure from twinu how we can
[41:50] learn from these digital twins and grid
[41:52] models and how it can be embedded also
[41:55] in our learnings.
[41:57] and from INCMA how the this
[42:00] interoperability and data space
[42:01] standards can contribute to our
[42:03] projects. So with that we hope to move
[42:06] from not isolated project and isolated
[42:09] pilot side but learn from this scalable
[42:12] elements and in order to build from aon
[42:16] a much better edge ecosystem but also
[42:20] how we can be improve the data
[42:22] spacebased platform. Next slide.
[42:27] So I I wanted just to to say that this
[42:30] green and digital transition that's the
[42:32] main goal of of this workshop cannot be
[42:35] achieved by isolated innovation. So it
[42:38] requires the help from interoperability,
[42:41] data sharing and collaboration across
[42:43] other projects so that um we can advance
[42:47] towards uh these challenges that were
[42:50] mentioned at the beginning of the
[42:52] presentation. So that's all on my end.
[42:54] Thank you.
[42:56] >> Okay.
[42:56] >> Thank you very much.
[42:58] Uh for presentation. So a rem a reminder
[43:02] for the participants, you can submit
[43:04] your questions in the chat throughout
[43:06] the presentation and we will address
[43:08] them during the panel discussion. So
[43:10] don't forget that. And next we move to
[43:13] Tina Project presentation by Ilas. Ilas.
[43:20] >> Thank you very much Raquel. Uh thank you
[43:23] very much for the invitation uh for this
[43:25] event.
[43:27] I'm Eliaopoulos the technical manager of
[43:29] Twin EU and uh I will present you the
[43:32] latest developments in the project.
[43:37] Next slide.
[43:39] Let's see a little bit the the main
[43:43] elements of TwinU project. Twin U is a
[43:46] project that leverages a unique set of
[43:49] competencies um coming from grid and
[43:51] market operators, technology providers,
[43:53] research centers to create a concept of
[43:56] a panuropean digital twin of the
[43:58] electricity grid. This um panuropean
[44:00] digital twin is based on the federation
[44:02] of local twins that aim to enable a
[44:05] reliable, resilient and safe operation
[44:07] of the grid electricity grid
[44:09] infrastructure while facilitating new
[44:11] business models that can accelerate the
[44:13] deployment of renewable energy sources
[44:15] across Europe. Uh the project
[44:20] is is delivered by a big consortium of
[44:23] approximately 70 let's say 75 partners.
[44:27] uh it has say eight pilots across Europe
[44:31] and is delivering 50 use cases.
[44:34] Next slide.
[44:39] Uh in this slide uh we briefly present
[44:42] the the conceptual architecture of the
[44:45] project. The digital twin federation
[44:48] which includes the layer of local
[44:50] digital twins, the layer of service
[44:52] orchestrator, the model sharing, the
[44:54] data sharing government governance and
[44:56] the data integration on home
[44:57] organization and also the services
[45:00] between new services workbench that goes
[45:03] across cyber physical grid resilience,
[45:06] advances of observability and
[45:07] validation, forecasting, smart
[45:10] coordinated planning and optimal grid
[45:12] control. and they provide access to
[45:14] several um legacy systems, data hubs,
[45:18] data spaces and multi-actor platforms.
[45:22] Next slide.
[45:25] Here we see um briefly the eight pilots
[45:30] um that have to that are dealing with
[45:32] several uh assets across Europe. Extra
[45:36] high voltage down to low voltage and
[45:38] behind the meter. uh EV chargers, uh
[45:42] heat pumps, uh wind energy plants, um
[45:45] HVDC links, um and also um they are
[45:49] several activities that cover the
[45:52] physical and the digital layer that has
[45:54] to do with forecasting, with demand side
[45:56] management, with asset management,
[45:58] capacity planning, flexibility
[45:59] management, and they involve several
[46:02] digital twin developments and cloud edge
[46:05] computing and machine learning
[46:06] activities. The eight pilots are are
[46:09] situated in Bulgaria in the eastern
[46:11] Mediterranean, Hungary, Slovenia, Italy,
[46:15] Netherlands, Germany, and the Iberia
[46:17] Peninsula with France. Next slide,
[46:20] please.
[46:24] So, uh the project is now running its
[46:27] third and final year. uh and we have
[46:30] let's say prepared we have um we have uh
[46:33] let's say um come up to specific
[46:36] challenges and opportunities during the
[46:38] first year and also we are running uh go
[46:42] now the pilots and the development of
[46:44] the technologies uh I would like to
[46:46] share with you some uh challenges that
[46:48] have been identified through our let's
[46:50] say literature review desktop research
[46:54] and also dedicated um interviews and
[46:57] interaction with all energy stakeholders
[47:00] and end users. Uh interoperability
[47:03] challenges uh data silos create
[47:07] challenges to integrate the digital
[47:08] systems um across different end users
[47:12] and stakeholders.
[47:14] We have identified
[47:16] a lack of the use of standardization.
[47:20] The use of standards um the lack of use
[47:22] of standards
[47:24] prevent a seamless communication
[47:26] cooperation among players.
[47:28] Um we have identified a need to
[47:30] coordinate the system planning
[47:32] methodologies for distribution and
[47:34] transmission network and this has been
[47:37] um let's say identified during the first
[47:40] years of the project. Currently there
[47:41] are some activities that are going on
[47:43] and also reports and uh efforts uh for
[47:47] flexibility needs assessment for um
[47:49] coordinated system planning for DSO and
[47:51] DSOS and this is let's say ongoing uh
[47:54] activity
[47:56] and also we have identified um not clear
[47:59] um
[48:01] regulation for incentives for investment
[48:04] incentives in digital technology. Um so
[48:07] um this is also let's say
[48:12] not helping very much into the
[48:14] integration of new um of innovative
[48:17] smart digital systems into the network.
[48:20] Next slide.
[48:25] Uh other barriers, opportunities and
[48:27] aspirations of of end users that have
[48:30] been identified is that all stakeholders
[48:32] require digital twins to be
[48:34] interoperable, modular and federated. So
[48:36] since several digital twins are
[48:39] developed across Europe, there is a need
[48:43] there is an a we an aspiration a need uh
[48:46] for them to be interoperable, modular
[48:49] and federated in order to be able to
[48:51] connect and valorize different um
[48:54] benefits across the countries
[48:57] and uh priority requirements that have
[49:00] been identified have been cyber security
[49:02] has been standards for crossber and
[49:04] cross actor communication
[49:06] alignment across national regulation of
[49:09] for the EU energy policies uh realtime
[49:13] system visibility especially in the low
[49:15] voltage and medium voltage network um
[49:18] that needs a a strong um investment in
[49:21] the smart grid technology
[49:24] and also strategic opportunities that
[49:26] appear uh is that digital twins that are
[49:30] developed can enable flex more
[49:31] flexibility more renewables to be
[49:33] connected and stronger TS DSO DSO
[49:36] coordination on a common basis of the
[49:38] digital twins. Um and also there is a um
[49:42] strong as we said demand from
[49:44] stakeholders to have a federated and
[49:46] non-monolithic architectures digital
[49:48] architectures. Next slide please.
[49:53] uh smart grid KPIs uh smart grid
[49:56] performance indicators is also a market
[49:58] expectation reflecting also the
[50:00] interoperability metrics cyber security
[50:03] resilience and decarbonization progress.
[50:06] Um and also these digital twin
[50:08] development initiatives should be
[50:10] favored by incentivesdriven regulatory
[50:12] frameworks. Uh promoting incentives for
[50:15] digital development and clear policy
[50:17] guidelines to stimulate um this
[50:20] innovation activities and ensure robust
[50:23] cyber security practices.
[50:25] And of course what we have identified is
[50:27] that there are many different approaches
[50:30] for digital twins. However, all these
[50:32] different approaches they they share
[50:34] some common b some common features which
[50:37] is the physical layer of the assets the
[50:39] virtual layer of their representation
[50:42] and the data measurements the services
[50:44] and the functionalities that the digital
[50:46] twins deliver and connections and the
[50:48] interactions with previous elements. Uh
[50:51] all these um are now being developed and
[50:55] um we are trying to enforce them with
[50:58] standards with interoperability and also
[51:01] with a framework that can support um the
[51:04] communication and the valorization
[51:06] across the energy stakeholders. Next
[51:09] slide please.
[51:12] A few um information about the pilot
[51:15] cases that are now running. Uh there are
[51:17] practically local digital twins use
[51:20] cases that include cyber physical grid
[51:22] resilience, digital twin developments in
[51:25] transmission distribution, grid, power
[51:27] system training simulators,
[51:29] um activities that um have to do with
[51:32] the detection and mitigation of uh
[51:36] measurements tampering, false data
[51:38] injection, abnormal market participation
[51:40] detection and protocol activation for
[51:42] mitigating risks and consequences. Also
[51:45] we have use cases for grid monitoring
[51:47] and state space estimation. We have use
[51:50] cases for grid capacity map. Um
[51:53] technologies for market coupling with
[51:55] dynamic line rating technologies and
[51:57] co-op optimized day ahead intraday and
[51:59] balancing market auctions.
[52:02] uh fast frequency response uh service
[52:04] design with extant system estimations,
[52:07] validating simulation, system defense
[52:09] plans, u implementation scenarios,
[52:12] design and validation of medium voltage
[52:14] and high voltage assess beam data models
[52:17] and several other use cases in total 50
[52:20] use cases. Next slide please.
[52:25] uh regarding now the federation. The
[52:27] federated infrastructure that is
[52:30] connecting all these local digital twin
[52:33] um the this federation includes a big
[52:36] data and AI marketplace that can offer
[52:39] interoperable data sources and services
[52:41] for the energy stakeholders. It follows
[52:43] the EU data space standards for enhanced
[52:46] data governance and interoperability.
[52:49] And um this federated infrastructure
[52:52] would be practically implemented and
[52:54] validated in real world scenarios
[52:57] connecting uh different end users
[53:00] through this federation in um let's say
[53:03] high level use cases that we name them
[53:06] pan European scenarios which is
[53:08] practically cross pilot exercises
[53:11] meaning that partners not initially
[53:13] involved in the pilots will be now
[53:15] connected through the federation and run
[53:18] some new scen scenarios, some new use
[53:20] cases that they can exchange data and
[53:24] models through the federation. Um, the
[53:26] panu scenarios that have been identified
[53:28] that are now running is a grid capacity
[53:30] map connecting partners from Germany and
[53:33] the Iberian Peninsula. The market
[53:35] coupling with dynamic line rating
[53:37] connecting partners um from Hungary and
[53:39] Romania. Um, single day at head market
[53:44] coupling scenario connecting Greece and
[53:46] Cyprus. security and stability scenarios
[53:48] connecting Slovenian and Hungarian
[53:50] pilots. Next slide, please.
[53:54] Thank you very much for your attention.
[53:57] And I will be very happy to answer to
[53:59] any questions and discussion later on.
[54:02] >> That was great. Thank you very much. And
[54:05] finally, we will hear from your team
[54:08] presented by Nicolola House.
[54:12] Is yours.
[54:14] >> Thank you.
[54:16] So uh I hope you can hear me. Hello,
[54:19] good morning. My name is Nicholas from
[54:21] European Dynamics. I'm the coordinator
[54:24] of HD IoT and today I'm going to give a
[54:26] short presentation about the project in
[54:28] general focusing also mainly on uh
[54:31] interoperability aspects that the
[54:33] project is introducing towards the
[54:35] digitalization of the power systems.
[54:38] Uh next slide please.
[54:41] So first of all some general details. Uh
[54:44] so heads IoT answer to the call that
[54:46] deals with supporting the green and
[54:47] digital transformation of the energy
[54:50] ecosystem and enhancing its resilience
[54:52] through the development and piloting of
[54:54] AI IoT edgecloud platform solutions. The
[54:58] same call was answered also by Odon
[54:59] which is our sister project and uh the
[55:02] project started in January of 2024 and
[55:05] it is going to run until uh June of
[55:07] 2027.
[55:09] Uh next slide please.
[55:12] So, Shedzo features a very extended
[55:14] consortium comprising uh 41 partners
[55:17] that cover the whole energy and ICT
[55:19] value chains. Uh the inter
[55:22] interdisciplinarity of uh this
[55:23] consortium is vital in order to address
[55:26] the diverse and challenging goals of the
[55:28] coal and also of the in general the
[55:30] European Commission. The consortium
[55:33] includes many European TSOs and DSOs,
[55:35] utilities, market operators,
[55:37] aggregators,
[55:39] energy asset manufacturers, IoT
[55:41] providers, a wide portfolio of end
[55:43] users, IT companies, AI experts,
[55:48] um research and academia partners,
[55:51] experts on standard standardization and
[55:53] regulation among others. Next slide
[55:56] please.
[55:58] So let's have a look at uh the main
[56:00] objectives. So, Hedge IoT proposes a
[56:03] novel digital framework which aims to
[56:05] deploy IoT assets at different levels of
[56:08] the energy system. Uh, starting from
[56:10] behind the meter and reaching up to the
[56:12] TSO level. Uh, it aims to add
[56:14] intelligence to the edge and cloud
[56:16] layers through advanced artificial
[56:17] intelligence and machine learning tools
[56:20] and to bridge the cloud edge continuum
[56:22] by introducing federated applications
[56:25] that are governed by advanced
[56:27] computational orchestration solutions.
[56:30] Um the hedge IoT framework will upgrade
[56:33] upgrade the renewable hosting capacity
[56:36] of the energy systems. It will unleash a
[56:38] previously untapped potent flexibility
[56:40] potential
[56:42] uh leveraging on IoT solutions and uh it
[56:44] will increase the resilience of the grid
[56:46] towards the digitalization of the energy
[56:48] sector. It also aims to enable extended
[56:51] service and semantical andological
[56:53] interoperability and interconnectivity
[56:55] among distributed open platforms,
[56:58] systems and uh edge devices through a
[57:01] decentralized data space compliant
[57:03] interoperability framework and it
[57:05] facilitates a market uptake of uh the
[57:07] proposed solutions uh contributing to
[57:10] the digitalization of energy action
[57:12] plan.
[57:14] Uh next slide please.
[57:17] So the heads IoT framework that uh we
[57:20] described before uh will be implemented,
[57:23] showcased and validated in uh a set of
[57:26] six uh diverse large scale field
[57:29] demonstrators
[57:30] uh which take place in six European
[57:32] countries then which feature uh
[57:35] versatile geographic climatic regulatory
[57:37] and social conditions
[57:40] and as you can see the pilots take place
[57:42] in Finland, in Greece, Italy,
[57:44] Netherlands, Portugal and Slovenia and
[57:46] cover a wide variety of uh use cases.
[57:50] Uh let's move on to the next slide.
[57:54] So diving into some uh more important uh
[57:57] first results. Uh the project recently
[58:01] finalized its uh reference architecture
[58:04] which is one of the most uh very
[58:06] important outcome both from a technical
[58:08] and uh an interoperability perspective.
[58:12] Uh the architecture provides a
[58:14] technology agnostic blueprint uh for how
[58:17] distributed digital energy systems can
[58:19] uh interoperate across the entire cloud
[58:22] edge continuum and um in practice it
[58:26] creates a common framework that is
[58:28] capable of connecting uh IoT devices,
[58:31] edge nodes, cloud platforms,
[58:34] um AI services, data spaces, energy
[58:38] applications in general and external
[58:41] legacy systems under a unified
[58:43] interoperable ecosystem.
[58:46] Uh it is structured as you can see in
[58:48] multiple layers. At the lower layer we
[58:50] have the physical energy assets and the
[58:52] IoT infrastructure. Above that uh heads
[58:55] IoT introduces edging fog computing
[58:59] capabilities where local intelligence
[59:02] can run closer to the field enabling uh
[59:05] low latency processing local
[59:07] observability
[59:09] uh faster control decisions and let's
[59:12] say more privacy preserving operations.
[59:15] The next layer focuses on orchestration
[59:17] and interoperability. This is a key part
[59:19] of the framework through semantic
[59:21] interoperability mechanisms,
[59:23] standardized interfaces, APIs and uh
[59:26] data space compliant data exchange uh
[59:29] services and database connectors. Uh
[59:32] through all these heterogeneous systems
[59:34] can communicate even when they use
[59:36] different technologies, vendors or data
[59:38] models. This helps us to break data
[59:41] silos that currently exist and vendor
[59:44] look in.
[59:46] uh and it is particularly important in
[59:48] uh in Europe's energy landscape where
[59:51] fragmentation remains one of the biggest
[59:53] barriers to scalability.
[59:56] Uh on top of this interoperable
[59:58] infrastructure, Hedge IoT supports
[01:00:00] advanced digital services such as uh
[01:00:02] artificial intelligence and machine
[01:00:04] learning applications for forecasting,
[01:00:06] flexibility management, uh federated
[01:00:09] learning, swarm intelligence,
[01:00:11] distributed optimization and uh others.
[01:00:15] Uh the important point is that these
[01:00:17] services are not tied to one specific
[01:00:19] platform or infrastructure. They can be
[01:00:22] deployed dynamically across edge or
[01:00:24] cloud environments depending on
[01:00:26] operational requirements. They all
[01:00:28] reside in uh our app store uh which is
[01:00:32] also database compliant and uh features
[01:00:35] uh connectivity through a data space
[01:00:36] connector and their uh execution in most
[01:00:40] cases where the interrelevant is
[01:00:42] governed by our computational
[01:00:45] orchestration which uh dynamically
[01:00:48] allocates uh the resources.
[01:00:52] Um,
[01:00:54] another important aspect is uh that the
[01:00:56] architecture was designed to be reusable
[01:00:58] and uh extensible and uh although it is
[01:01:02] validated through the six pilots of the
[01:01:04] project, the architecture is not pilot
[01:01:06] specific. It can serve as a reference
[01:01:08] blueprint for future smart grid smart
[01:01:11] building uh flexibility markets or
[01:01:13] energy community applications uh beyond
[01:01:16] the project.
[01:01:18] Uh finally, interoperability and
[01:01:20] standardization are at the core by being
[01:01:22] compliant with uh data space principles,
[01:01:24] the data, the new data space protocol uh
[01:01:27] standards such as SRF, the common
[01:01:29] information model and uh bridge uh
[01:01:33] recommendations that stem from uh brids
[01:01:35] from other projects. Uh we ensure that
[01:01:38] the solutions that are being developed
[01:01:39] can evolve into scalable and replicable
[01:01:43] European digital energy solutions.
[01:01:46] Uh let's go to the next slide.
[01:01:51] To strengthen the interoperability and
[01:01:54] alignment with the European energy
[01:01:56] ecosystem, uh the project has mapped the
[01:01:59] architecture that I showed before uh
[01:02:02] onto the bridge data exchange reference
[01:02:04] architecture, the the DRA and this is
[01:02:07] the result that you can see here. Uh the
[01:02:09] DA as you may know provides a common
[01:02:11] European reference framework by
[01:02:13] describing how energy data is exchanged
[01:02:16] uh across systems, organizations and
[01:02:19] services and through this alignment with
[01:02:21] DRA we ensure that our architecture is
[01:02:23] not developed in isolation but it
[01:02:26] follows a shared European approach. Uh
[01:02:29] the mapping demonstrates that hs IoT
[01:02:31] covers all major functional dimensions
[01:02:34] of uh the DRA model at the
[01:02:36] infrastructure level. The project
[01:02:38] supports distributed fog edge and cloud
[01:02:40] computing resources. At the
[01:02:42] interoperability level, we have semantic
[01:02:44] models, APIs, ontologies and data
[01:02:46] exchange mechanisms.
[01:02:48] Uh from the governance and data space
[01:02:50] perspective, we integrate data space
[01:02:52] compliant trusted uh data exchange
[01:02:55] mechanisms and connectors
[01:02:57] and uh we in general all this is highly
[01:03:00] aligned with the objectives of uh the
[01:03:02] European data spaces initiative and the
[01:03:05] digitalization of energy action plan.
[01:03:08] Uh the mapping also highlights how the
[01:03:11] project supports higher level digital
[01:03:13] services
[01:03:14] and uh so we try to show to prove that
[01:03:18] hedge IoT is not only simply developing
[01:03:22] isolated technical components. We are
[01:03:24] building a modular and standards aligned
[01:03:26] digital ecosystem.
[01:03:29] Uh next slide please. I will close by
[01:03:33] connecting uh heads IoT with the
[01:03:36] Europe's broader green and digital
[01:03:37] transition ambitions. From the
[01:03:39] beginning, the vision has been very
[01:03:41] clear to leverage IoT AI and uh
[01:03:45] interoperable digital technologies
[01:03:46] across the entire energy ecosystem.
[01:03:50] Uh the reference architecture, the
[01:03:52] interoperable data space, the
[01:03:53] orchestration framework, the six uh
[01:03:56] pilots are all concrete building blocks
[01:03:58] towards that uh vision.
[01:04:02] uh hedge IoT contributes
[01:04:05] to Europe's decarbonization goals by
[01:04:07] transforming IoT into a system level
[01:04:09] capability.
[01:04:11] Uh we are bridging the cloud edge
[01:04:13] continuum through AI federated learning
[01:04:16] and distributed orchestration which
[01:04:18] improves uh scalability and
[01:04:20] responsiveness and we aim to make this
[01:04:23] transformation repeatable and
[01:04:24] trustworthy. uh we are aligning with
[01:04:26] open standards with semantic
[01:04:28] interoperability approaches and we
[01:04:31] contribute valuable evidence towards
[01:04:33] European initiatives and policies such
[01:04:35] as uh the AI act, the data act which are
[01:04:38] all very relevant these days.
[01:04:41] Uh in summary, we deliver more than
[01:04:44] individual tools or pilot applications.
[01:04:46] Uh the project provides a usable digital
[01:04:48] framework and an interoperable ecosystem
[01:04:52] uh hoping that Europe can build upon to
[01:04:54] accelerate the greater digital
[01:04:55] transformation.
[01:04:57] Thank you. Uh happy to answer any
[01:05:00] questions.
[01:05:02] >> Thank you very much Leas for uh for
[01:05:06] diving deep into your your project. So
[01:05:11] well uh thank you very much for all the
[01:05:14] speakers for these very interesting
[01:05:16] presentations. Uh without doubt today we
[01:05:19] have seen that uh we have large
[01:05:22] constructions with common uh ground and
[01:05:25] also complimentary strengths. So now
[01:05:28] let's open it for uh open it up for
[01:05:31] discussion. Uh so moderated by our
[01:05:34] colleague
[01:05:36] from Ho
[01:05:39] >> the floor is yours.
[01:05:41] >> Thank you. Thank you.
[01:05:44] So as said let's now move to the panel
[01:05:46] discussion where we will explore uh some
[01:05:49] of the broader technical regulatory and
[01:05:53] societal questions linked to Europe's
[01:05:55] digitally powered green transition.
[01:05:57] Uh so uh let's start with uh
[01:06:00] interoperability.
[01:06:02] uh which is a recurring challenge across
[01:06:05] all of Europe digital energy projects
[01:06:08] and the first question is how can
[01:06:11] European digital energy projects ensure
[01:06:14] interoperability uh between IoT
[01:06:17] platforms data spaces uh digital twins
[01:06:20] and AIdriven services in order to avoid
[01:06:23] the fragmented innovation ecosystems
[01:06:26] uh so I would like to begin with aon so
[01:06:29] moes do do you want to start.
[01:06:33] >> Okay, thanks. So yeah, actually from the
[01:06:36] other perspective, we understand that
[01:06:38] interoperability needs to be actually
[01:06:41] built from the beginning of the project.
[01:06:44] That means that and that's what we did
[01:06:47] also in in Orion that all these um we
[01:06:51] need to align with all these existing
[01:06:52] European frameworks standards and
[01:06:54] reference architecture so that we can
[01:06:56] cover up the interoperability technical
[01:06:59] issues but we also understand that uh
[01:07:02] interoperability can also be understood
[01:07:06] as as not only technical because uh data
[01:07:09] for instance needs to be understood in
[01:07:11] the same way across different systems
[01:07:14] which at the end also requires this work
[01:07:16] and this alignment to existing
[01:07:18] ontologies uh and different data models
[01:07:21] where these data governance frameworks
[01:07:25] can be extrapolated to to the different
[01:07:28] projects. And also just to highlight
[01:07:31] that interoperability also is not built
[01:07:33] under the the same project but also uh
[01:07:36] among the collaboration uh with other
[01:07:39] projects as we have been uh highlighting
[01:07:42] during this this workshop. So sharing
[01:07:44] best practices even working towards
[01:07:48] interoperable uh use cases across
[01:07:50] different projects that's something that
[01:07:52] HD and Oon is is taking a look can can
[01:07:56] be enhancing this interoperability
[01:07:58] aspects and move towards um a truly
[01:08:02] interconnected system.
[01:08:05] >> Thank you. Thank you. Uh Julia, do you
[01:08:08] want to add something from the twin
[01:08:10] perspective?
[01:08:12] Um yes um I fully agree with what Moyes
[01:08:16] mentioned. I would I would only like to
[01:08:19] add that um it is important to include
[01:08:22] the end users in the development meaning
[01:08:24] that uh once um they are important
[01:08:26] elements because they have uh the topic
[01:08:29] is very big. There are several issues
[01:08:32] and legacy systems that have to be taken
[01:08:34] under consideration and several
[01:08:36] different services functionalities use
[01:08:38] cases problems that occur. So if the end
[01:08:42] users are included, they can provide
[01:08:44] their field experience and their real
[01:08:47] needs. This is the one element and also
[01:08:50] the developments are important to follow
[01:08:52] an agile uh approach of development
[01:08:54] meaning consecutive rounds of
[01:08:56] improvement in order to fine-tune uh in
[01:08:59] the end something that is really
[01:09:01] meaningful to be applied by the end
[01:09:04] users.
[01:09:06] >> Thank thank you Leah. Nicholas do you
[01:09:09] want to complement this from the HD
[01:09:11] perspective?
[01:09:13] >> Uh yes, thank you V. Uh so basically I
[01:09:16] totally agree with uh both Ilas and
[01:09:19] Moises. I see also let's say there are
[01:09:22] two pillars. There is the technical
[01:09:23] interoperability there is the semantical
[01:09:25] interperability.
[01:09:26] The first one as Moises also mentioned
[01:09:29] it's something that we need to work from
[01:09:31] the beginning of the projects. Uh we
[01:09:33] need to
[01:09:34] um to go into in very detail in the
[01:09:37] whole ecosystem what has been done in
[01:09:39] previous projects how we can build upon
[01:09:41] existing solutions and not create uh
[01:09:44] again new things, new platforms, new uh
[01:09:48] systems that are um let's say not
[01:09:52] connected with uh what has been done in
[01:09:55] the past. Uh for this we need synergies.
[01:09:59] We need uh initiatives such as bridge uh
[01:10:03] such as uh AIOTI
[01:10:05] and others. Uh also the use cases
[01:10:08] repository of bridge is something that
[01:10:11] can be very useful and uh building on uh
[01:10:16] the existing effort now that uh we have
[01:10:19] uh towards common data spaces a common
[01:10:21] energy data space which also inc
[01:10:25] uh working towards is very very critical
[01:10:28] as it will provide
[01:10:30] uh common practices both on uh the
[01:10:33] technical side but also on the semantic
[01:10:36] Right. So
[01:10:38] especially in the IoT domain there are
[01:10:40] many many different standards and
[01:10:42] protocols which create fragmentation. So
[01:10:44] we need to see how we can align uh so
[01:10:47] that many people most of the people will
[01:10:50] use the same vocabulary the same
[01:10:52] ontology
[01:10:54] uh so that everybody can speak the same
[01:10:56] language and finally also based on what
[01:10:58] I said uh creating trust uh for the end
[01:11:03] users to adopt new practices that may in
[01:11:07] some points be uh
[01:11:11] out of what they have uh they're used is
[01:11:14] also very important and the key to bring
[01:11:17] everything forward and to scale up.
[01:11:21] >> Thank you, Nikos. And uh last but not
[01:11:23] least, G, do you want to add something
[01:11:26] from NC perspective?
[01:11:28] >> Yes. So on the on the data space end I
[01:11:31] think our viewpoint is that we that we
[01:11:35] um that we are not so much focused on
[01:11:38] the interoperability between uh
[01:11:40] innovation ecosystems but in on the data
[01:11:43] space and uh we're nearing a point where
[01:11:46] we where the regulation clearly tells us
[01:11:49] what needs to be supported in many
[01:11:51] member states. If you look at the
[01:11:53] network code on demand response, if you
[01:11:55] look at uh different
[01:11:58] uh implementing regulations, they are
[01:12:01] bringing markets and uh real life
[01:12:04] settings into order. So what we do in in
[01:12:07] SEMA is we put forward the
[01:12:11] uh cooperation with uh with IC at 10
[01:12:16] engage with the with the industry that
[01:12:20] needs to support uh certain
[01:12:22] developments. So for example when we do
[01:12:24] flexible connection agreements through
[01:12:26] our uh data space IoT uh platforms we
[01:12:31] directly engage with outside partners
[01:12:34] with the ones with home energy
[01:12:36] management system vendors industrial
[01:12:37] energy management system vendors. We
[01:12:40] accept that the things and components
[01:12:42] that we built in an open-source manner
[01:12:45] that we built them as reference
[01:12:47] implementations to drive the standards
[01:12:49] but at the end of the day we are very
[01:12:52] much focused in driving the standards
[01:12:54] and not so much uh and providing good
[01:12:57] reference implementations as well. But
[01:12:59] really that focus on standardized
[01:13:02] interfaces
[01:13:03] and accepting that what we build might
[01:13:07] be integrated in a different manner by
[01:13:10] others
[01:13:11] um puts interperability first also and
[01:13:16] and that's the way that that how we see
[01:13:19] it.
[01:13:21] >> Thank you. Thank you G. So basically
[01:13:24] it's clear that inter interoperability
[01:13:26] is sort of becoming a prerequisite for
[01:13:29] scalability and not just the technical
[01:13:32] feature. Uh and now let's move on to the
[01:13:36] next question. U this one is for audio
[01:13:39] project. So one challenge many projects
[01:13:42] face is moving from successful pilots
[01:13:45] into real operational environments. And
[01:13:47] the question is uh what are the main
[01:13:50] technical and uh regulatory barriers
[01:13:52] that still prevent successful digital
[01:13:54] energy solutions from scaling beyond
[01:13:56] pilot environments into real operational
[01:13:59] energy systems. So Mo do you mind
[01:14:02] answering this one?
[01:14:04] >> Yeah. So actually um the name regulatory
[01:14:08] barriers is that uh at least we can see
[01:14:11] that from different countries we
[01:14:13] encountered different um codes,
[01:14:16] different uh laws, different uh ways to
[01:14:19] implement things and that as as as I
[01:14:21] mentioned during my presentation we see
[01:14:24] that it could be a a barrier that
[01:14:26] prevents implementation the
[01:14:28] implementation of a successful let's say
[01:14:30] uniform um solution and that's something
[01:14:34] that we are currently encountering in in
[01:14:37] in our project.
[01:14:40] What we can extract from that is that we
[01:14:42] can identify how these uh solutions in
[01:14:46] aon can be implemented in the different
[01:14:48] countries and what lessons learned we
[01:14:50] can have in terms of regulatory aspects
[01:14:52] so that we can say that they are there
[01:14:55] and let's work towards uh on the basis
[01:14:58] of of these different as country based
[01:15:01] aspects how we can uh work toward a more
[01:15:04] unified uh let's say solution
[01:15:10] Thank you. Thank you Moes. And now let's
[01:15:12] move on to the next question uh which
[01:15:15] talks about uh another important topic
[01:15:18] uh which is long long-term impact beyond
[01:15:22] the project lifetimes and I think that
[01:15:26] this topic be becomes more and more uh
[01:15:29] talked about from every year and uh the
[01:15:34] question is uh how can Horizon Europe
[01:15:37] projects collaborate more effectively to
[01:15:39] create reusable digital building blocks
[01:15:42] and the long-term impact beyond the
[01:15:44] lifetime of individual projects. Uh so
[01:15:47] uh I do you want to start with answering
[01:15:50] this question?
[01:15:53] >> Um yes uh I believe um this um there are
[01:15:57] several things that can be done and of
[01:15:59] course uh we can all discuss and there
[01:16:02] are also a lot of things that are
[01:16:03] happening already. I would remind the
[01:16:06] the bridge initiative which is something
[01:16:08] that really provides um a very good uh
[01:16:11] let's say environment to exchange ideas.
[01:16:14] Uh, one other thing I that could be also
[01:16:17] um support this activity is to um to
[01:16:20] include the the Horizon Europe projects
[01:16:24] in the uh in the definition of the
[01:16:27] future topics meaning that to have a
[01:16:30] stand to have a well definfined uh
[01:16:32] process a well- definfined environment
[01:16:34] that the Horizon Europe projects that
[01:16:36] are finalizing
[01:16:38] can uh provide their ideas and their
[01:16:41] aspirations for the future uh research
[01:16:43] topics.
[01:16:44] in a wellestablished let's say approach.
[01:16:47] Um I think this would also help in order
[01:16:49] to have a very good um chain of
[01:16:53] activities uh that can really complement
[01:16:56] and uh follow after the and valorization
[01:16:59] also of the of the results.
[01:17:03] >> Thank you. Thank you Leah. Nicholas
[01:17:05] would you like to complement this?
[01:17:08] >> Yes. So again there are many dimensions
[01:17:12] here. uh one is to try to push the
[01:17:15] projects to create open-source uh
[01:17:18] components, open source solutions which
[01:17:19] are easily sharable with the community.
[01:17:22] This helps definitely to create more
[01:17:24] impact and allows other projects to
[01:17:26] build upon uh what has been started in
[01:17:29] previous projects. uh definitely what I
[01:17:32] mentioned to have collaboration spaces
[01:17:35] such as the bridge initiative and uh uh
[01:17:39] and others. Uh also a very useful uh I
[01:17:43] think tool which um
[01:17:47] should be used and more and more by the
[01:17:49] project is the horizon results uh the
[01:17:52] booster the booster service uh which
[01:17:55] helps the exploitation of the components
[01:17:58] that we are creating
[01:18:01] and in general maybe one thing that we
[01:18:03] could do from our side is to many times
[01:18:06] we have to implement very complex
[01:18:08] solutions too much technical work and
[01:18:10] sometimes we place less emphasis on
[01:18:13] exploitation on dissemination
[01:18:16] uh which are very very crucial
[01:18:19] activities and help us achieve uh
[01:18:23] to maximize impact. So we should never
[01:18:25] forget this and uh we should try to
[01:18:28] place a lot of uh focus and work on
[01:18:32] transferring the results that we are
[01:18:34] creating towards the community.
[01:18:36] >> Uh thank you. Thank you Nicholas. Uh and
[01:18:39] next question is to inc project uh and
[01:18:44] uh all four projects work extensively
[01:18:47] with energy data and often across highly
[01:18:51] stakeholders and infrastructures. So the
[01:18:53] question is uh what is the biggest
[01:18:56] bottleneck you have encountered when
[01:18:58] accessing sharing or integrating energy
[01:19:00] data across multiple stakeholders and
[01:19:03] how are you addressing it and how are
[01:19:05] you how are you uh combating this
[01:19:07] problem?
[01:19:09] Yeah. Um, thank you. So, uh, first of
[01:19:13] all, we always say that we that we are
[01:19:15] not so much focused on on data sharing,
[01:19:18] but rather on data exchange, uh, in our
[01:19:21] projects because we we see uh, data
[01:19:25] exchange, data sharing also as a means
[01:19:28] to an end. Uh so there's uh there's a
[01:19:32] ton of critical processes that need to
[01:19:34] be um realized in our sector for
[01:19:39] different things like organizing energy
[01:19:41] sharing, participating
[01:19:44] um in markets and uh one big uh
[01:19:49] bottleneck is the lack of uh regulatory
[01:19:53] clarity because the uh especially the
[01:19:57] regulator domain system operators. They
[01:19:59] play a big role in uh clearing up the
[01:20:03] the dust um providing the digital
[01:20:08] infrastructure that it takes to
[01:20:12] for businesses to evolve and in many
[01:20:15] ways we're in a stage that this will
[01:20:18] take another year, one and a half years
[01:20:21] for the European level to come up with
[01:20:24] clear uh regulations
[01:20:27] and
[01:20:29] um and that would then allow for the big
[01:20:32] diversity that we see in national data
[01:20:35] exchange in infrastructures to to become
[01:20:39] better and more streamlined. So
[01:20:43] clearly what what what we do in Brussels
[01:20:46] at the moment is we write laws, we write
[01:20:49] requirements in four, five lines of
[01:20:51] legal text and then we expect all the
[01:20:54] member states to do uh to to solve these
[01:20:58] riddles that we give them at the
[01:21:00] European level in a similar manner and
[01:21:02] then we end up in very diverse
[01:21:04] infrastructures and here we need to
[01:21:07] think more in an end to end way. We we
[01:21:10] should leave uh freedom and degrees of
[01:21:14] freedom in national implementations but
[01:21:17] we should also give more streamlining
[01:21:19] and guidance and more emphasis on uh
[01:21:22] standardization
[01:21:24] and how do we address that? uh this is
[01:21:28] through the interactions with the legal
[01:21:30] activities and the evolvement of the
[01:21:33] European legal framework and with close
[01:21:36] interactions and cooperations with
[01:21:39] standards defining organizations.
[01:21:43] >> Thank thank you Ger for for answering
[01:21:45] this question. Next question is for
[01:21:48] team. So as energy systems become
[01:21:51] increasingly interconnected and
[01:21:53] digitalized resilience becomes
[01:21:54] essential. How do we ensure that
[01:21:57] digitalization not only provides
[01:21:59] visibility but also improves the
[01:22:01] physical and cyber resilience of the
[01:22:03] system?
[01:22:04] >> Yes. So uh let's say that digitalization
[01:22:09] should not be limited only to monitoring
[01:22:11] and uh data collection. It should uh
[01:22:14] definitely enable the intelligent but
[01:22:16] also the secure uh system operation. Uh
[01:22:20] resilience should be at the core of the
[01:22:23] design uh phase. Um so it should be
[01:22:28] embedded directly into the architecture
[01:22:30] design and um let's say that in projects
[01:22:35] like hedge IoT resilience comes from
[01:22:37] combining real time uh observability
[01:22:39] with AIdriven decision support with
[01:22:41] federated approaches with interoperable
[01:22:44] orchestration across the cloudex
[01:22:46] continuum and um
[01:22:50] let's say digital resilience means on to
[01:22:54] ensure that energy systems remain
[01:22:56] secure, adaptive and operational under
[01:22:58] cyber threats, data disruptions or
[01:23:01] rapidly changing grid conditions. So um
[01:23:06] having all these interconnected systems
[01:23:08] in a seamless manner allows for more
[01:23:11] data to be circulated to reach the
[01:23:13] relevant actors. This can help to
[01:23:18] uh mitigate events before they even
[01:23:21] happen before because the actors have
[01:23:22] more information on their hands so they
[01:23:24] can be proactive and uh also with the
[01:23:28] application of uh concepts like the data
[01:23:32] spaces. It's not only they do not only
[01:23:35] focus on the exchange of data but also
[01:23:37] provide a security dimension uh to the
[01:23:41] to how data are transmitted, exchanged
[01:23:44] uh etc. Also of course we always need
[01:23:47] cyber security mechanisms to be applied
[01:23:50] to everything that we are building to
[01:23:52] ensure that uh um the data are preserved
[01:23:57] to preserve the data sovereignity to be
[01:24:00] the data can be accessed only by actors
[01:24:02] who have the respective rights etc etc.
[01:24:05] So it's again two dimensions the how
[01:24:10] data are exchanged and how this uh
[01:24:13] provides more resilience to the grid
[01:24:15] when done in the correct manner.
[01:24:18] >> Uh thank you Nichos. Uh we have uh two
[01:24:21] more questions. Uh so the next question
[01:24:23] is for twin EU um and for in so if you
[01:24:28] could ask the European Commission for
[01:24:30] one single concrete action to accelerate
[01:24:32] the digital green transition uh what
[01:24:34] would it be?
[01:24:36] So IA do you want to to start?
[01:24:41] >> Um there are several things that can be
[01:24:43] done and there are several things that
[01:24:44] are already being happening and also
[01:24:47] there are ongoing activities. One thing
[01:24:50] that I in our opinion would help for the
[01:24:54] smart digitalization is to to provide
[01:24:57] clear incentives of um for the all the
[01:25:01] end users of all the energy stakeholders
[01:25:04] to go forward with a smart grid
[01:25:07] investments um to put it in um to
[01:25:10] provide a very welldefined and clear
[01:25:12] framework of um of the benefits that
[01:25:15] they will get once they go forward and
[01:25:18] also in this direction. I think it is um
[01:25:20] the activity of of smart grid
[01:25:22] performance indicators which is also
[01:25:23] something that is really going on and
[01:25:26] will provide this enabler will be an
[01:25:28] enabler for defining the incentives to
[01:25:31] go for uh for the smart digitalization
[01:25:33] of the energy sector.
[01:25:35] >> Thank you. Thank you. G I know that you
[01:25:39] have to leave but if you have question
[01:25:40] if you have time to to answer this
[01:25:42] question that would be great.
[01:25:43] >> Sure. Um yeah thanks IAS. I think from
[01:25:47] the viewpoint of digital for twin that's
[01:25:49] that's a different angle but super super
[01:25:51] much supported of course on our end
[01:25:54] where we build a data space more for the
[01:25:57] participative end of the of the of the
[01:26:02] of the energy system
[01:26:04] um I think what we need to learn is to
[01:26:07] go stage wise uh we we we are developing
[01:26:12] a data space we're developing digital
[01:26:14] twins we're developing
[01:26:17] uh AI
[01:26:19] and machine learning based solutions
[01:26:21] based on the data that the data space
[01:26:23] provides but from INCM side of things we
[01:26:26] hear more and more the voices that say
[01:26:28] why do we do another data data project
[01:26:31] or data integration project why do we
[01:26:34] see in so many activities new energy
[01:26:37] community projects whilst we don't have
[01:26:39] a common understanding and a common
[01:26:41] implementation of what an energy uh
[01:26:44] community or collective energy
[01:26:46] consumption actually is. So what we
[01:26:48] should learn to do is to accept that for
[01:26:52] certain parts of that digital spine or
[01:26:55] that digital infrastructure that that uh
[01:26:57] Swed mentioned in the beginning we are
[01:27:00] in a stage where we have done enough
[01:27:03] research and where it's more time to to
[01:27:08] apply instruments that are more focused
[01:27:10] on operationalization
[01:27:12] which also means that we need to learn
[01:27:14] to target other actors. So if we see
[01:27:17] things as a pipeline, we should support
[01:27:20] businesses, maybe system operators as
[01:27:23] well, but they will come anyhow instead
[01:27:25] of um like doing a next university
[01:27:29] driven project or a next researchdriven
[01:27:32] project because what we need to learn is
[01:27:34] to operationalize the findings, draw a
[01:27:36] line and then
[01:27:40] operationalize and institutionalize
[01:27:43] uh things allow for the regulated domain
[01:27:48] to to do and and formulate clear
[01:27:51] responsibilities to them, support them,
[01:27:53] but
[01:27:57] get out of research mode and get into
[01:27:59] operationalization mode for certain
[01:28:02] things where we did enough research
[01:28:04] already.
[01:28:08] >> Thank you. Thank you, G. And one last
[01:28:11] question. So let's close with a forward
[01:28:13] looking perspective. Let's imagine we
[01:28:16] are in 2030. What aspect of the European
[01:28:19] energy system will have changed
[01:28:20] radically thanks to the innovations
[01:28:22] you're developing today? Uh so I would
[01:28:25] like to ask this question to Moises from
[01:28:27] Odon.
[01:28:29] Yeah, actually uh by by that year there
[01:28:34] will be the continuation of the things
[01:28:35] we are actually looking and considering
[01:28:38] these four projects right now because
[01:28:40] we'll see this shift from a centralized
[01:28:42] infrastructure driven to a more user
[01:28:45] centric ecosystem
[01:28:47] as well. we will be seeing this
[01:28:49] integration of millions of distributed
[01:28:51] assets that will have a participation in
[01:28:53] the system and the will require this
[01:28:57] orchestration and this um let's say
[01:29:00] management as well as part of a
[01:29:03] flexibility source but equally also it
[01:29:07] really great to to highlight also this
[01:29:09] change in the role of the citizens as we
[01:29:13] are progressively seeing during the past
[01:29:16] few years moving towards these passive
[01:29:20] uh consumers to a much more active uh
[01:29:23] role of of of the participants. So the
[01:29:26] challenge overall is not technical per
[01:29:28] se but also it systemic uh so it
[01:29:31] requires this both ends to consider us
[01:29:35] as part of of this evolution of of the
[01:29:38] European energy system.
[01:29:42] Uh thank you uh thank you Moes. Uh this
[01:29:45] closes today's final discussion
[01:29:49] and uh yeah since we since we don't have
[01:29:52] the since we don't have any questions in
[01:29:54] the Q&A I think we are ready to close
[01:29:58] this session.
[01:30:00] So thank thank you everybody for for
[01:30:02] joining us today at the workshop called
[01:30:05] towards powered green transition scaling
[01:30:08] innovation and connectivity in energy
[01:30:10] services. Um as a reminder this session
[01:30:13] was organized by aon and casual projects
[01:30:15] with the participation of INCMA in three
[01:30:18] new projects. I thank uh all speakers
[01:30:21] for their participation.
[01:30:24] Uh and the recording of this session
[01:30:26] will be available on KT and audio
[01:30:29] YouTube channels. We will publish it in
[01:30:31] the upcoming uh in the upcoming days.
[01:30:34] And uh yeah, stay tuned. Follow us on
[01:30:36] social media because we'll definitely
[01:30:38] organize uh uh more events like this in
[01:30:41] the future.
[01:30:44] >> Thank you very much.
[01:30:46] >> Thank you very much. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.
[01:30:49] Bye.
[01:30:49] >> Bye.