Full Transcript
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MoyWUe0VfQ
[00:00] Well, Andrew Jones, you are with Noah's Ark Scans, and you came on last year with me to talk about evidence for Noah's Ark, and you have been in the headlines though this past week quite a bit.
[00:11] The New York Post, a number of other outlets.
[00:13] You were on Fox News, I believe, as well, um talking about this issue.
[00:17] Now, you believe that you have evidence that could back Noah's Ark, which obviously as Christians, we believe the story is true, and for a long time people have been looking for evidence of the Ark, and they have been, you know, there've been expedition after expedition.
[00:31] Can you talk generally, from a 30,000 ft view, about the evidence that you believe uh does back the existence of the Ark?
[00:40] And by the way, you are on site right now, right in front of the place where you believe some of this evidence is.
[00:46] Thank you for having me back on.
[00:48] Yes, I am here in the mountains of Ararat, we're just beside the Iranian border here in eastern Turkey.
[00:52] And in this area, many expeditions have been have gone here in the past from looking
[01:00] have gone here in the past from looking on the big mountain, which is right over on the big mountain, which is right over here, actually, the big Mount Ararat.
[01:04] here, actually, the big Mount Ararat, and then, of course, the uh Durupınar boat formation here that Ron Wyatt and others investigated in the 1980s.
[01:11] And so, uh we're back in the news because of the evidence, this the soil analysis, the GPR scans being re-analyzed by professionals.
[01:22] And again, it just brings more and more data to this site, that's why we're excited to share it.
[01:26] Um so, to give you the big picture, well, the site was first discovered, for those who don't know, in 1959 by a Turkish army captain.
[01:32] He saw this boat formation.
[01:36] He was a cartographer in the army uh here in uh Turkey, and they just joined NATO that year, so this area was bordering the the then Soviet Union, and they were mapping out their territory, and he discovered this boat formation.
[01:51] Uh about uh 1 month later, it was in the news around the world.
[01:53] The photograph was released by the Turkish military, and then 1 year later, in June of 1960, an American-Turkish expedition came out
[02:00] an American-Turkish expedition came out here.
[02:01] here.
[02:01] They had an archaeologist, they had reporters, they had a business person,
[02:05] but they also had the Turkish military, and Captain Durupinar came out.
[02:09] They came back with one of the guys who was a photogrammetry expert from Ohio State University.
[02:16] He was actually Swiss, and he had worked in Turkey in the past on some of these type of surveys.
[02:19] He really believed that after a 2-day quick expedition to the site, that they could not determine what it was.
[02:27] He said, you know, he didn't have enough time.
[02:29] Others thought it was just a natural formation.
[02:32] So, it died down.
[02:32] You know, no nothing was done here scientifically.
[02:35] They just came and looked at it and took pictures.
[02:38] About 17 years later, it was 1977.
[02:41] That's when Ron Wyatt, an explorer from Tennessee, got involved.
[02:45] And throughout the '80s and early '90s, he was in the news a lot cuz he was trying to do work out here, and he did.
[02:52] He did soil testing initially, then he did the first radar they were using in Turkey was at the site.
[02:59] The analog radar that printed out on paper the results.
[02:59] And then they did
[03:02] On paper the results.
[03:04] And then they did metal detector scans, and they got metal detector scans, and they got enough interest that the Turkish government in 1987 built a visitor center, which I'm standing in front of right here.
[03:10] So, that tourists could come see it.
[03:12] And that's then it died down again.
[03:15] I came out here in 19 '97.
[03:18] I was in college.
[03:19] I came out here as a tourist just to see it myself.
[03:22] I got interested, really wanted to pursue more than just taking pictures.
[03:24] I met up with Dr. Salih Bayraktutan, who's a retired now professor of geology from Ataturk University at that time.
[03:31] And he had been studying this site even up to today cuz he's still around.
[03:36] He's been studying this region and site for many decades.
[03:40] And he really believed that this is the best possible candidate for Noah's Ark.
[03:44] So, I asked him some of the questions about the geology and why people say it's a rock or it's a syncline, or mud that's go went around a rock and things like that.
[03:54] And he gave me the the details about, you know, what's going on at the site, and why he thinks it's more than that.
[04:02] than that.
[04:06] And so then in 2019, with the history actually the Science Channel was here.
[04:08] And with permission from the Turkish government, we were out here scanning for a Science Channel documentary film.
[04:15] And that's when we did the GPR at that time.
[04:21] And we did two different types of scanning that would go at different depths.
[04:23] That material initially the the report that was coming from that expedition showed right angles and some parallel lines.
[04:32] And it was American archaeologist who was not part of our team who analyzed that.
[04:36] And he said, "Look, if you were to do an excavation, I would say do it right here cuz I'm seeing a series of right angles about 7 m down or 21 ft."
[04:46] So that was interesting, but it wasn't until I reconnected with Dr. Byron Turchin during the pandemic.
[04:50] I think it was 2021 or 22, I I met with him again after my initial meeting 20 some years ago.
[04:58] And I told him, "Hey, we have this data, but I would like a third-party to look at it."
[05:02] would like a third-party to look at it.
[05:05] So we gave this raw data to an American geophysicist.
[05:07] She had 30 years experience and her own company doing these type of scans.
[05:11] And so we just she had nothing to do with Noah's Ark.
[05:12] We asked her and she said she'll do it for free.
[05:15] Said, "Okay."
[05:17] So we sent her the gigabytes and gigabytes of data.
[05:19] And within 6 months she had analyzed it.
[05:21] And this is what what's in the news right now cuz she had come back and she told us, "Look, I am finding she asked if we had dug a tunnel down the site."
[05:29] Said, "No, it's on a mountainside.
[05:30] There's no utility line or something."
[05:32] But she said, "Look, about 4 m down there is a tunnel, a series of voids that connects that goes from the pointed top end all the way to little past where the there's a big boulder in the middle."
[05:45] And she said, "It's following the center line of the boat formation."
[05:48] And then she saw a broken-up one on the inside edge of this boat parameter.
[05:54] And so, she said these are, you know, voids.
[05:56] This is something that hasn't filled in yet.
[05:57] And so, she thought that was very interesting.
[06:00] And then at the center of this boat formation, she found a almost square
[06:04] formation, she found a almost square shape.
[06:06] I call it central atrium, but the shape.
[06:06] I call it central atrium, but the center void that goes down almost 40 ft, 13 m below the surface.
[06:11] And that's actually where our data bottoms out.
[06:13] And so, we have this tunnel leading to a central cavity.
[06:15] And then we having right below that, this is what something we haven't even released yet.
[06:18] Right below where this the central hallway or corridor is, this tunnel, you're seeing this very faint series of parallel lines or right angles as if they're support beams for the floor.
[06:21] You could say if this was a natural object, I mean a man-made object, you know, something that's not just random.
[06:24] You're seeing this whole thing and it's going down in depth, so it's not a shallow feature.
[06:26] And so, we've had you know, we have plans with hopefully with the Turkish university.
[06:29] We're waiting on them that they could go out here and do some of the things we'd like them to do for the future, to go into the site with, you know, cameras, robots, whatever to keep you know, it's very fragile site.
[06:31] You can't just do a big hole in it. But
[07:06] You can't just do a big hole in it.
[07:08] Well, let me ask you cuz that that Let me let me ask you really quick on that because that's the question a lot of people have, you know, for so many years, you know, for so many years.
[07:15] years, you know, for so many years people obviously built a visitor center there.
[07:16] There's been speculation.
[07:19] Why has it taken so long to get in there and actually look, right?
[07:23] That's the question people have.
[07:24] Yeah, and we've asked, you know, ever since I first heard about it as a kid, and I course I couldn't communicate with the Turkish government.
[07:31] But then I come out here, you see the visitor center at that time it was 10 years old.
[07:34] And then when you three years later I met the geologist who'd been working at the site, Dr. Bayraktutan.
[07:38] And and it's always like, okay, when they do more than non-destructive scanning?
[07:45] You know, what can be done next?
[07:48] And um I've heard different answers.
[07:49] One answer is that it's so fragile, they'd rather have non-destructive techniques scan it cuz a traditional archaeology you put a big hole like 5 m by 5 m square and it's a destruction.
[08:01] You know, you you have now have a scar on the site and people come here they want to see the boat shape.
[08:05] And so
[08:07] they want to see the boat shape.
[08:09] And so now suddenly now suddenly this hole is there.
[08:11] this hole is there.
[08:13] And so that was one thing someone said is too fragile.
[08:14] is too fragile.
[08:17] Another one is it's very actually hard to find someone interested to study it.
[08:20] to find someone interested to study it.
[08:21] So you're looking at you're in Turkey, so you need to find a Turkish archaeologist under a Turkish university.
[08:23] so you need to find a Turkish archaeologist under a Turkish university.
[08:24] archaeologist under a Turkish university.
[08:25] university.
[08:27] And so they're basically putting their credentials on the line looking for Noah's Ark.
[08:28] credentials on the line looking for Noah's Ark.
[08:31] And in this environment, even though this is a country where you know, people do believe in the the story of Noah and the flood is in the Quran.
[08:33] even though this is a country where you know, people do believe in the the story of Noah and the flood is in the Quran.
[08:35] of Noah and the flood is in the Quran.
[08:37] You still have an academia people who would think you're looking at fairy tales.
[08:40] would think you're looking at fairy tales.
[08:42] You're looking for Santa Claus's home or something, you know, looking for Noah's Ark.
[08:43] tales. You're looking for Santa Claus's home or something, you know, looking for Noah's Ark.
[08:45] home or something, you know, looking for Noah's Ark.
[08:47] So why would they put the time and money uh
[08:49] time and money uh >> It's not legal to just go up there and start doing it, right?
[08:51] It's not legal to just go up there and start doing it, right?
[08:52] You need permission from the government.
[08:54] permission from the government.
[08:55] >> Yeah, in fact we're in a military zone, too.
[08:56] too. It's right the border's right there.
[08:58] This is a very special zone.
[09:01] We have a tourist site, but you also have this boat-shaped object that they're not going to allow.
[09:03] this boat-shaped object that they're not going to allow.
[09:04] That's why they actually designated it as a national park in the sense that they
[09:06] designated it as a national park in the sense that they
[09:08] a national park in the sense that they want it to to be preserved.
[09:10] They don't want it to to be preserved.
[09:12] They don't want villagers plowing it for a field or tourists to go down there and dig a hole.
[09:16] And you know, that's the very reason why there's at least a somewhat type of protection that way.
[09:19] But in regards to future work, it will require archaeologists, geologists, someone who can get who's you know, under a university in Turkey that we would then partner with.
[09:32] So it's not an easy thing.
[09:35] And things move very slowly here.
[09:35] Um >> [laughter]
[09:36] >> You know, I live out here most of the year.
[09:38] I should just say half the year.
[09:40] And so, when you're meeting with these officials, it's it's usually the same story or they say they'll talk to someone and then you're just kind of waiting around.
[09:49] Uh so, you know, we'll see what happens.
[09:51] So, okay, can you show people because you are standing in front of this mountain where you believe the ark could be?
[09:56] Can you show them right now where that formation is?
[09:59] I think they can probably see it, but can you kind of point it out so they can Yeah, let me turn my camera just a little bit more.
[10:04] So, um so, on right behind me.
[10:06] So, this is the There's a central boulder that people
[10:08] There's a central boulder that people mistakenly think it's bedrock, but the
[10:10] mistakenly think it's bedrock, but the ERT scans show that it's actually a huge
[10:12] ERT scans show that it's actually a huge boulder.
[10:14] And now, in this mudflow, this is a big earthflow that where the
[10:16] is a big earthflow that where the mountainside, you know, hundreds of
[10:17] mountainside, you know, hundreds of thousands or whatever it was, a thousand
[10:19] thousands or whatever it was, a thousand years ago, whatever, we don't know the
[10:20] date yet, but where it collapsed.
[10:22] And in this mudflow, you do see this boat formation and there's a lot of boulders
[10:24] formation and there's a lot of boulders in it.
[10:26] Uh this boulder actually it's the same type of rock that's found at the
[10:28] same type of rock that's found at the very, very top at this
[10:30] There's a kind of a saddleback crescent ridge there.
[10:32] It's limestone, full of fossils, um
[10:34] fossilized coral.
[10:36] But, when you see that boulder, this is the edge of it.
[10:39] This is the western side I'm standing on and it goes all the way there and then kind of
[10:42] draw looking at my camera, but that's the boat shape in the valley floor.
[10:43] So, that's about 6,500 ft elevation.
[10:45] We're about 1,500 ft off the valley floor here.
[10:47] And all this material around me, according to Dr. Salih Bayraktutan, this
[10:49] is sedimentary rock, so laid down by the flood.
[10:52] This is It's not There is mixed inside um like the mudflow itself, this
[10:55] earthflow around it is a melange of
[11:08] earthflow around it is a melange of different types of rocks.
[11:10] There are different types of rocks.
[11:12] There are basalt like volcanic rock inside, but most of it is sedimentary rock.
[11:14] You see even that red uh rock up there, it's sedimentary rock.
[11:19] Uh the boulder's limestone.
[11:21] And so, all of this is evidence for water being in this area.
[11:25] Of course, the fossils we found here.
[11:28] But, this is the formation that got everyone interested.
[11:30] And we keep hearing this thing that, "Oh, no, this is found all over the place in this area.
[11:33] So, why is this thing unique?"
[11:35] That's That is totally not true.
[11:37] This is the only one for First of all, what really got people interested was the boat shape and then measuring it to be 300 cubits.
[11:43] You know, if you find a boat shape anywhere in the world and you think it's Noah's Ark and it's like 1,500 ft long, then it is not matching the biblical record.
[11:50] So, if this thing didn't match the biblical record, it was just a you know, random shape out here, then no one would have gotten interested.
[11:55] But, because you have that exact length,
[11:58] that That's like a plus on your on the side that, "Hey, this is an interesting object here in the mountains of Ararat,
[12:03] you're not in China, and you're at a place that sedimentary material is laying on top of,
[12:10] laying on top of, and you have the exact length given the Bible.
[12:11] And so, the shape, this is the one that they found when they were scanning this whole area when they're making their their cartography maps back in the 1959 and '60s, when they're going through here mapping out Turkey, they didn't find a whole fleet of Noah's Ark.
[12:26] There was not um a whole bunch of lifeboat sized uh only this one.
[12:27] And so, this was the one that got everyone's attention.
[12:30] There was not another one on a nearby hill.
[12:32] Uh as you look at the original black and white photographs, especially before some of the earthquakes and seismic activity dropped the soil away and further exposed it, you have this really amazing shape just sitting there on the mountainside.
[12:45] You can see why people got excited about it back in the '60s.
[12:49] Yeah, you know, it's it's interesting looking at all this because you have devoted your life to this, right?
[12:54] I mean, you're there most of the year, as you were saying, you're living there mostly, and you've spent a lot of time researching this.
[12:56] You You have gotten some pushback.
[12:58] Obviously, you got apologist Wesley Huff and some other people.
[13:03] You know, he said that that these findings are not legit, that they're rooted in sensationalism.
[13:12] they're rooted in sensationalism.
[13:13] I know your organization, Noah's Ark Scans, responded, but what is your response to Wesley Huff and others who are questioning this?
[13:19] I have no problem with legitimate criticism.
[13:24] What I think people have done ever since the Is this Is this a back back up to when this boat was really in the news in the '80s?
[13:30] Cuz this has been in and out of the news and people have criticized it.
[13:34] So, this is The criticism today is not like it's some new argument.
[13:38] It's some of the same things, but they're repeating some of the past things that don't take into account what we're doing today.
[13:42] And here's one example.
[13:45] One of the criticisms they say is that we have a mudflow coming down the mountainside.
[13:50] That's true.
[13:53] And they claim that mud went around some type of structure.
[13:55] And obviously they see a big boulder in the middle and they say, "Well, then maybe that's that or some type of basement rock that's coming up from the valley floor and mud went around that and then forms this oval shape, this boat shape."
[14:06] And so for them it's a natural formation because the dirt went around it.
[14:10] So, to test that theory and what actually got us interested and this has
[14:13] actually got us interested and this has been in the news is that we did a randomized soil sampling, 88 samples from inside and outside of the formation.
[14:20] And the reason why we did that was in 2024 we had a soil scientist here from Australia and also the Turkish geologist, Dr. Barış Tütün.
[14:30] And I I told him, "Hey guys, look at the site.
[14:31] There's something going on and it's the first one I noticed it.
[14:34] Maybe it happens every year.
[14:36] We have yellow grass growing inside, but right outside the perimeter of this boat shape it's green.
[14:40] So, I I said, "There's something in the soil.
[14:41] Let's find out what it is.
[14:43] And at first they're like, "I don't know if you can figure that out.
[14:45] So, let's just find out.
[14:46] Let's just take samples.
[14:47] Take it to the lab and see if there's any difference between the inside and outside for the soil.
[14:52] And so they designed the soil survey to get four samples so you get a you know, a good mix cuz you don't want to get something like one sample that had high in iron.
[15:00] So, you got four samples from 22 locations, 88 samples, and at different depths.
[15:05] And then they sent it off We didn't tell the lab you know, what was what.
[15:07] And then we did the analysis the soil scientist We had two soil scientists, one not associated with our
[15:13] scientists, one not associated with our project, analyze it.
[15:15] And then we had the project, analyze it.
[15:15] And then we had the geologist.
[15:18] And I even I'm not a a soil geologist.
[15:18] And I even I'm not a a soil scientist, but I uploaded the results.
[15:19] You You you get they give you a spreadsheet and they tell you how much is in all the columns.
[15:22] They said, "Okay, for this location, you know, for the 22 sites, here's the values for pH, organic matter, you know, potassium, all that."
[15:32] And so, I uploaded it to even to Grok and I'm just a chat GPT just to see cuz math to see like, "Okay, can it identify the differences?"
[15:40] And they all matched.
[15:43] So, you know, what the AI chats matched with what the soil scientists and geologists found.
[15:47] And basically, what we found was that inside this site this supposedly is just the same soil that's all around here is three times more organic matter.
[15:55] Uh a high concentration of organic matter.
[15:57] And you're saying, "Okay, what does that mean?"
[16:00] Well, if this is a decayed wooden boat that thousands of years have sat here and then got covered with dirt, then you would expect that wood to do this to the soil.
[16:06] So, we have 38% more potassium.
[16:09] Decayed wood affects the potassium, it increases it.
[16:11] We have
[16:14] the potassium, it increases it.
[16:16] We have the on the pH scale eight times the on the pH scale eight times difference between inside versus outside.
[16:18] And so, it is distinct chemical in the chemistry for this soil versus right outside.
[16:24] Uh so, for me that says one thing and that is this is not regular soil that just came down the mountainside and went around a boulder.
[16:33] Uh so, then another criticism and this is even been peer peer-reviewed and published by a Turkish geologist a number of years ago and people like to quote from that.
[16:41] The guy says that this is a solid block of rock that then glaciers came down millions of years and formed it into a ship shape.
[16:50] Um when you're out here walking on it, the only rock is this thing right here, this boulder.
[16:54] And when you look at the scans the scans like the ERT scans and the GPR, none of that shows a solid big blob of rock.
[17:02] And again, you're walking around and it's all soil.
[17:04] It's an earth information, it's not folded sedimentary rock to form a syncline.
[17:09] And these are all things that Dr. Salih Bayraktutan, the geologist who's been studying this from 1984 or 85
[17:15] Who's been studying this from 1984 or 85 until now, this is stuff he's pointed out to me and stuff that you know, just someone with two eyes can walk out there and see.
[17:23] And so some of the initial criticism I think that's coming right now, it's from people who are repeating what someone heard, you know, 20, 30 years ago maybe and hasn't really, you know, contacted us to find out what the the new things we're doing at the site, what the soil results are.
[17:38] And the GPR, I I saw the criticism saying, "Well, you can't really determine what is out there with GPR."
[17:45] But it is a tool that archaeologists use.
[17:47] It's not the final step, it's one of the steps.
[17:49] And so if the GPR showed nothing, okay, it would have been nothing, you know.
[17:53] But it's actually showing these right angles, these parallel lines, and then these series of voids and a central cavity.
[18:00] So things that are interesting enough that to continue the research.
[18:03] Uh and I think even West made a point on his uh uh you know, not to go point by point with what he's saying, but he mentioned something about Mount Ararat and how the name came later and all.
[18:13] Well, we're not on Mount Ararat.
[18:14] I think that's some confusion from people who
[18:16] That's some confusion from people who haven't been out here.
[18:19] We're 19 mi south of the mountain, we're across the valley.
[18:20] Up in this sedimentary mountains here that we're at.
[18:23] Mount Ararat is a stratovolcano.
[18:25] Uh I think even Answers in Genesis who, you know, they don't think there's any Noah's Ark to be found right now and so they don't accept any site, but they may, you know, they have the big model in Kentucky.
[18:35] And they wrote a good article I thought about why Mount Ararat itself is a post-flood volcano.
[18:40] But yet you have people with PhDs and Ark Hunters and Adventurers still looking for the Ark up there.
[18:47] Uh so, you know, for us we we think we have the the better sites to keep investigating.
[18:51] We're not saying we have the final word yet, but we'll continue.
[18:57] All right, so final quick question for you.
[19:00] What is next?
[19:01] Because we're talking about, "Hey, we want to do more digging.
[19:03] We want to understand or actually do some digging.
[19:04] Potentially, you know, what are your next steps and how will you get there to maybe start really cuz the only way that this debate is settled is if you get a chance to get in there and actually look.
[19:14] So, what comes next?
[19:17] and actually look.
[19:17] So, what comes next?
[19:17] Well, there's a couple of things.
[19:19] Well, there's a couple of things.
[19:19] Without giving away everything we're trying to do.
[19:23] I only say that because you think this okay, it's a controversy, but you think people just say okay, I agree or disagree, but it even comes down to I've been out here in the past you know, a number of years ago and another team tried to stop me out of Turkey said I was American spy.
[19:38] So, you get really bad bad things trying to happen to you and you try to lay everything out you do and then people try to >> [laughter] >> stab you in the back so to speak.
[19:47] It's sad.
[19:47] But anyways, we know the goal is to get inside.
[19:53] Now, I mentioned how hard it is to get an excavation permit.
[19:55] I think what we proposed to the Turkish universities and we're seeing you know, who will who will do it is to core drill.
[20:01] Now, there was a core drill attempt in 1987 and some people who really know the history of the site have talked about it, but it has bad results.
[20:10] They use water cooling, it washed all the soil away.
[20:11] When they pulled up the bit, they had rubble like pieces of rock in it.
[20:15] So, we're looking at a dry cooling type of like sonic
[20:20] at a dry cooling type of like sonic drilling which uses a vibration to go
[20:21] drilling which uses a vibration to go through the rock and soil and it
[20:22] through the rock and soil and it preserves the whole
[20:24] preserves the whole chamber of the core. And so, that way we
[20:26] chamber of the core. And so, that way we can see what are these right angles?
[20:28] can see what are these right angles? What's inside these cavities? You know,
[20:30] What's inside these cavities? You know, what's at the bottom of this mountain
[20:32] what's at the bottom of this mountain side you know, in the valley floor?
[20:34] side you know, in the valley floor? Well, I so appreciate you breaking it
[20:36] Well, I so appreciate you breaking it all down. We're going to keep having you
[20:37] all down. We're going to keep having you back as new developments unfold and
[20:39] back as new developments unfold and thank you for being on site there so you
[20:41] thank you for being on site there so you can kind of show us and we can actually
[20:42] can kind of show us and we can actually see it and not just talk about it and we
[20:44] see it and not just talk about it and we appreciate your time today.
[20:47] appreciate your time today. Thank you for having me again.