# Nischa Shah: They’re Lying To You About Buying a House! My 652510 Rule Built $200K Passive Income!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxTsA72O5x0

[00:00] We put a lot of pressure on people today
[00:01] that as soon as they start working, they
[00:03] need to get onto that property ladder.
[00:04] But there's ways to build wealth that
[00:06] don't require you to be in the real
[00:08] estate game, including three numbers
[00:09] that everyone should know when it comes
[00:10] to their personal finance 65 20. Just
[00:14] knowing that creates a better life for
[00:16] yourself.
[00:16] Nisha Shaw is the former high-profile
[00:18] investment banker turned financial
[00:20] mentor
[00:21] whose content has helped millions
[00:23] rethink their relationship with money,
[00:24] break free from crippling debt,
[00:26] and take the first steps toward building
[00:28] lasting wealth. Everything is trying to
[00:30] pull you away from your money. Cost of
[00:31] living going up, prices going up,
[00:33] fighting against marketing to keep your
[00:35] money in your pocket.
[00:36] You earned this.
[00:37] So, it's becoming harder and harder. And
[00:39] I've gone through this. I followed
[00:40] society's version of money until I
[00:42] realized that if I continue living this
[00:44] way, the freedom, the choice, the
[00:46] options that I want aren't going to
[00:47] exist.
[00:49] Um, hold on, give me a second.
[00:53] And I felt really trapped at times, but
[00:55] I don't know how to escape. And I know a
[00:58] lot of people are probably hearing this
[00:59] and thinking I'm also in that place. And
[01:01] so I really feel like my purpose is to
[01:04] help as many people to go from feeling
[01:06] trapped to freeing themselves and using
[01:09] money to do that.
[01:11] Wasn't expecting that.
[01:13] Okay. So people are hungry for easy
[01:16] money tips and these stay the same
[01:18] regardless of how much you earn. So we
[01:20] could talk about the peace of mind fund
[01:21] and doing that puts you ahead of 59% of
[01:24] Americans. Then there's building your
[01:25] emergency buffer and this does more for
[01:28] your emotional well-being than earning
[01:30] over 200k. But with the way cost of
[01:32] living is going, you cannot save your
[01:34] way to retirement. So this is when you
[01:35] want to move on to investing. That is
[01:37] the easiest way to make money. And my
[01:39] principle with investing is very very
[01:41] simple and it's just
[01:45] listen to my regular listeners, I know
[01:47] you don't like it when I ask you to
[01:48] subscribe at the start of these
[01:49] conversations. I don't like saying I
[01:50] don't like it being in there. None of us
[01:51] like it. It's frustrating. Do you know
[01:54] what's also frustrating? It's also
[01:55] frustrating when I go into the back end
[01:56] of a YouTube channel and I see that 56%
[01:59] of you that listen frequently to this
[02:01] podcast haven't yet subscribed. And so
[02:02] many of you don't even know that you
[02:03] haven't subscribed because I see in the
[02:05] comment section you say to me, you go,
[02:06] "I didn't even realize I didn't
[02:07] subscribe." And that actually fuels the
[02:09] show. It's basically like you're making
[02:10] a donation to the show. So that's why I
[02:12] ask all the time because it enables us
[02:13] to build and build and build and build
[02:15] and we're going for the long term here.
[02:17] So all I'd ask you is if you've seen the
[02:19] show before and you like it, help me
[02:21] help my team here. Hit the subscribe
[02:22] button and we'll continue to build this
[02:24] show for you. That's my promise. Thank
[02:26] you to all of you guys that do
[02:27] subscribe. Means the world to me. Let's
[02:29] get on with the show.
[02:33] Misha Sha with your YouTube channel
[02:36] which has accumulated almost 2 million
[02:39] subscribers in a incredibly short period
[02:41] of time. What is the goal? What is the
[02:45] mission that you're on? What is it
[02:46] you're trying to do?
[02:47] Money touches almost every part of our
[02:50] life and impacts so many choices from
[02:53] where we choose to live, uh what we
[02:55] choose to do for a living, what our
[02:57] weekends even look like. So my mission
[02:59] is really simple. It's take the
[03:01] complicated financial jargon and turn it
[03:04] into easy, practical, actionable money
[03:08] tips that anyone can implement and
[03:10] understand.
[03:11] And what kinds of people and what kinds
[03:13] of financial situations? Because
[03:14] obviously we've got millionaires on one
[03:16] end and then we've got people like me at
[03:17] 18 years old that are struggling to even
[03:20] get a couple of quid together to feed
[03:22] myself.
[03:23] The principles of money stay the same
[03:25] regardless of how much you earn. And
[03:27] although my mission is to help make
[03:31] money more accessible, the principles,
[03:33] the underlying thinking, the mindset can
[03:35] be applied whether you're making 50,000,
[03:37] 500,000 or more.
[03:39] And we don't really learn about money.
[03:41] We don't.
[03:42] We don't. Nobody in school was teaching
[03:43] me about money. My parents didn't teach
[03:44] me about money growing up either. So
[03:48] someone like you who can simplify some
[03:51] of these big complicated words or terms
[03:53] or strategies I think is um is of the
[03:56] moment but also more needed now than
[03:57] ever because people are complaining
[03:59] about cost of living crises and prices
[04:01] going up and inflation and all these
[04:03] kinds of things. Is that is that what
[04:05] you're seeing?
[04:06] Absolutely. And at the same time, it's
[04:08] becoming harder and harder to save our
[04:10] hard-earned money
[04:12] because everything,
[04:15] whether it's marketing, whether it's
[04:17] needs going up, everything is trying to
[04:20] pull you away from your money.
[04:22] And who are you?
[04:23] I'm a qualified accountant. So I I
[04:26] studied finance at university initially,
[04:28] then I qualified as a chartered
[04:30] accountant, and then I spent nine years
[04:32] in banking. And do you do you think your
[04:35] sort of psychological or emotional or I
[04:38] don't know trauma response to money
[04:40] plays a role in our relationship with
[04:42] money?
[04:42] Absolutely. We definitely all have our
[04:44] unique relationship with money. And a
[04:47] lot of it comes from our upbringing.
[04:49] It's like an invisible backpack that we
[04:51] carry that we don't even realize that
[04:52] we're carrying it. And it could be fed
[04:55] through us through what we've
[04:56] experienced firsthand or whether we've
[04:58] just been on a a fly on a wall. Hearing
[05:00] a conversation between our parents
[05:03] and what might feel invisible at the
[05:05] time has such a big impact on the way
[05:08] you see money, how you use it, how you
[05:10] earn it, grow it, spend it, save it,
[05:12] everything.
[05:13] But that said, you can understand what
[05:17] to do to start making it and turning it
[05:19] into your favor.
[05:20] What was your relationship like with
[05:21] money when you went to university? I
[05:22] didn't understand what money meant to
[05:24] me. So I followed society's version of
[05:27] money. So I bought all the things to
[05:32] make me look better. All the things to
[05:34] make my lifestyle look better. And I did
[05:36] that after graduating for years and
[05:39] years and years. That was the path that
[05:41] I followed for a very long time until I
[05:44] realized that if I continue living this
[05:47] way and spending my money this way, the
[05:50] freedom, the choice, the options I'm
[05:52] have or that I want aren't going to
[05:53] exist.
[05:55] Was there like a catalyst moment where
[05:56] you realized that or was it just an
[05:58] accumulated feeling?
[06:00] So for a long time I believed in this
[06:03] blueprint. Go to school, get a job,
[06:05] climb the ladder and security will
[06:06] follow. And I did that to the tea for
[06:10] almost a decade,
[06:11] nine years in banking. And I'll say I
[06:13] was about halfway into my career where I
[06:17] was
[06:19] we me I met this amazing woman. She was
[06:21] basically my mentor. And we were working
[06:23] on multi-billion dollar transactions
[06:25] late into the nights for weeks in a row
[06:29] at times. And we were in the middle of
[06:32] one of the largest deals that we've
[06:33] done. And overnight she lost her job.
[06:37] Overnight she was made redundant and the
[06:39] very next day I was asked to replace
[06:41] her.
[06:43] And I remember thinking at the time that
[06:45] this person believed in financial
[06:46] security. This person believed in the
[06:49] blueprint and it was taken from her. And
[06:52] now I'm in her shoes. What's to say that
[06:54] the same won't happen to me? And that
[06:57] was the first time I saw a crack in the
[06:58] system and I realized
[07:01] if you give someone else the power to
[07:04] feed you, you're also giving them the
[07:06] power to starve you. And that's when I
[07:08] really understood, okay, I need to learn
[07:10] about money. I need to stop spending it
[07:12] in the way that I'm spending it. I need
[07:13] to stop having this mindset around money
[07:16] because what it's done right now is it's
[07:18] kind of trapped me. So what I did is
[07:20] took it took the power back in my own
[07:21] hands. did everything I needed to learn
[07:23] how to save, spend, invest, budget. And
[07:25] it came very easily to me because I was
[07:27] in banking. That was it was financial
[07:29] lingo and I could simplify it very very
[07:31] easily for me. And that's really where
[07:35] my mindset or my change in thinking
[07:37] around money changed. And that's the
[07:40] same moment where I started my YouTube
[07:41] channel.
[07:42] Oh, okay.
[07:43] That was it.
[07:44] Cuz a lot of people bury their heads in
[07:46] the sand. I was looking at some stats
[07:48] earlier on that said the vast majority
[07:49] of people just have this sort of
[07:50] avoidant relationship with their
[07:52] financial situation, with financial
[07:54] literacy, with their bills, with their
[07:55] bank statements. I mean, there's like
[07:57] long-standing jokes from the internet
[07:58] that
[07:59] people just don't open their banking
[08:00] apps. They just don't look at it.
[08:02] Yeah. Yeah. There's there's even a
[08:04] terminology for this and it's called the
[08:05] uh ostrich effect and it's a cognitive
[08:08] bias that explains people will avoid
[08:11] looking at negative financial
[08:12] information because of the fear of how
[08:14] it makes them feel. It's the same reason
[08:16] why we don't check our bank account
[08:18] after a night out or we don't open
[08:20] there's a a pile of bills on our table
[08:23] and we don't check them.
[08:25] But it's that thing avoiding it thinking
[08:28] that oh it's just going to disappear if
[08:30] I don't look at it. It's that thing that
[08:31] keeps you stuck. It's that thing that
[08:34] makes you realize I don't even know
[08:35] which direction I'm going. It's a
[08:37] disorganized finances. Yeah.
[08:39] So someone's listening to this right now
[08:40] and they resonate with this idea of
[08:43] they're slightly avoidant. They don't
[08:44] really have a plan. and they're kind of
[08:45] just they get paid, they they they
[08:47] answer their bills, and then they wait
[08:49] till the next payday. They're not being
[08:51] intentional with their money. Is there a
[08:53] step one in taking back control?
[08:56] The very first thing number one that I
[08:58] would say to do is build a peace of mind
[09:00] fund.
[09:02] A peace of mind fund.
[09:04] This is not about maths. It's not the
[09:06] mathematically optimal thing to do, but
[09:08] it is the psychological because as we've
[09:10] discussed, money is as much about
[09:12] emotions as is it as as it is about
[09:14] numbers.
[09:17] So, what I'll say is go through the last
[09:20] 30 days of your bank statements and
[09:23] calculate exactly how much it costs for
[09:26] one month of your living. So, mortgage,
[09:30] rent, utilities, bills, minimum debt
[09:33] payments, car payments, whatever that
[09:35] total is, that's the amount that you
[09:37] want to saved up for your peace of mind
[09:38] fund.
[09:40] Okay. So, I go through my last uh 30
[09:42] days of my bills. I find out that it's
[09:44] cost me, let's say, $1,000.
[09:47] Okay. That's one month of your core
[09:49] living expenses.
[09:50] Yeah. So, I need to save $1,000.
[09:52] You don't need to invest it. You don't
[09:55] need to save it. You don't need to It's
[09:56] not for a holiday. The reason why you
[09:58] want to save this is because when life
[10:01] does what it does best, which is throw
[10:02] curve balls, you want to make sure that
[10:05] you have it handled. If a boiler broke,
[10:07] breaks, your car dies on a Monday
[10:09] morning, the last thing you want on top
[10:10] of the stress of dealing with that thing
[10:12] is the financial stress of how you're
[10:14] going to pay for it.
[10:15] That's what this thing covers. It tells
[10:17] you, I've got peace of mind. Whatever
[10:19] life throws at me, I can handle it. And
[10:22] saving that one month of living costs
[10:25] puts you ahead of 59% of Americans and
[10:29] 30% of people living in the UK. 59% of
[10:32] Americans unfortunately can't pay for a
[10:35] $1,000 expense.
[10:38] And 30% of people in the UK can't cover
[10:40] one month of their living expenses if
[10:42] something happened.
[10:43] What is what is step two in that regard?
[10:45] Step two, this is where we do move into
[10:46] the mathematical optimal thing. This is
[10:48] you cut the financial bleeding.
[10:51] Okay.
[10:52] And what I mean by that is I get so so
[10:54] many times people ask me, Nisha, I have
[10:57] 4,000 5,000 sitting in my bank account.
[10:59] What should I do with it? And my first
[11:00] question back to them is, do you have
[11:02] any high interest rate debt? Because if
[11:05] you have savings of $2,000 earning 4%,
[11:10] but you also have credit card debt at
[11:12] 20%. You're leaking money more than
[11:15] you're making it. It's like pouring
[11:17] water into a bucket with holes in it and
[11:18] wondering why it's not going to fill up.
[11:20] So, what you want to do is you want to
[11:21] take all of your debt that you have,
[11:23] rank it from highest to lowest
[11:25] in terms of interest,
[11:26] in terms of interest rate, and then
[11:28] everything above 8%. You you want to
[11:30] make minimum payments across everything
[11:32] first. And then everything above 8%, you
[11:33] want to throw your extra savings into
[11:36] the highest interest rate first, the
[11:38] debt with the highest interest rate, and
[11:39] then move down in that order.
[11:41] And interest rate, is that paid monthly
[11:42] or yearly?
[11:43] It's paid monthly. So, if I have a
[11:46] £1,000 loan on a credit card and the
[11:49] interest rate is 10%. I'm paying
[11:51] £100
[11:53] paid monthly over the year they're going
[11:54] to pay 100. Okay.
[11:55] But that's split out into monthly
[11:57] payments assuming that they're not
[11:58] drawing down more on that credit card.
[12:00] And are you against credit cards?
[12:03] Credit cards are good if you're using
[12:05] them the right way. Really good if
[12:06] you're using them in the right way. And
[12:08] that means the points that you're using,
[12:10] the rewards that you get for it, the
[12:11] bonuses that you get from it, all really
[12:13] helpful. only if you're paying them off
[12:15] in full every single month. If you're
[12:17] not using that or if you're not doing it
[12:19] in that way, which is kind of what they
[12:21] want you to do because they want you to
[12:22] miss these payments because that's how
[12:24] credit card companies make money by your
[12:26] missed payments. If you're not doing
[12:28] that, then the benefits just don't weigh
[12:29] up.
[12:30] Okay?
[12:30] It doesn't make sense. Use credit cards,
[12:32] but use it in a way that stacks up in
[12:34] your favor, not in the credit card
[12:35] company's favor.
[12:36] It's almost paradoxical that you'd use a
[12:38] credit card, but only if you can afford
[12:39] to use a credit card.
[12:41] Yeah, that's exact. Yeah, you got to you
[12:43] got to think about it. Can I can I pay
[12:44] for this thing outright in cash?
[12:46] If I can, then I can ship put it on my
[12:48] credit card.
[12:48] And that's the the anomaly is property.
[12:50] If you're using it to make money,
[12:52] healthare, education, but for anything
[12:54] else, unless it's making you money,
[12:56] yeah, you that's the way you want to
[12:58] think about it because it does encourage
[13:00] extra spending otherwise.
[13:01] Okay. So, I'm going to pay off my high
[13:03] interest debts first with any spare cash
[13:05] that I have.
[13:06] Yeah.
[13:07] What's number three? Number three is
[13:09] build your emergency buffer.
[13:12] Okay,
[13:13] so this this is your core living
[13:15] expenses that we've already calculated
[13:17] in step one. And you want to times that
[13:19] by three if you are single, you have um
[13:24] mortgage, you have unpredictable income.
[13:26] Mhm.
[13:27] Or you want to times it by six if you
[13:28] are head of household, you have a
[13:32] That's your emergency cushion and it
[13:34] protects you from the bigger life
[13:36] things. It's a very It's the third thing
[13:38] you want to do. It's protects you if you
[13:39] lose your job, if you have a health
[13:41] scare, if there are dependents that you
[13:43] need to care for. This kind of buys you
[13:45] that time. But there's really
[13:48] interesting research from Vanguard that
[13:50] actually showed saving 3 to six months
[13:53] of your living expenses
[13:55] does more for your emotional well-being
[13:57] than earning over 200k.
[14:00] So, just the peace of mind again,
[14:02] it's that breathing room. Yeah. 3 to 6
[14:04] months of breathing room in your bank
[14:05] account. It just moves the needle. It's
[14:07] the peace of mind. It's the security.
[14:08] It's the stability.
[14:11] One of the core human needs. And it's
[14:13] interesting because we we're kind of
[14:14] looking at making more money and earning
[14:16] more. And we're chasing the next number.
[14:19] And actually, the thing that's going to
[14:20] have the biggest impact or move the
[14:22] needle on our financial well-being is
[14:25] at this stage having that 3 to six
[14:26] months of living expenses saved up.
[14:28] It's all relative, right, at the end of
[14:30] the day. So if and it's it's incredibly
[14:33] stressful and I've been there when you
[14:34] don't know if you can pay this month's
[14:36] rent if you don't know if you can feed
[14:37] yourself. Um but also the sort of un
[14:41] back of the mind knowledge that if
[14:42] something were to happen you'd be
[14:45] screwed. It's incredibly stressful way
[14:47] to live and you might not even realize
[14:48] the stress consciously but you might
[14:50] just feel it. It might just be an angst
[14:51] in your life.
[14:52] Yeah. And I I this applies at any income
[14:54] level. Even people earning six figures
[14:56] who are living paycheck to paycheck
[14:57] who don't have that emergency buffer in
[15:00] place. They have that anxiety. And also
[15:02] that same report showed that having that
[15:04] 3 to six months with the the people that
[15:06] they surveyed their productivity at work
[15:08] was better just from knowing that they
[15:10] didn't have that financial stress. I
[15:12] know millionaires, people that have a
[15:14] lot of money that are in a similar
[15:16] position in the sense of they are
[15:18] stressed and anxious because their
[15:19] overheads are also in the millions every
[15:22] month and there's a lot of money coming
[15:24] in but there's a lot of money going out.
[15:25] So they're still sometimes just one or
[15:26] two months away from being at zero.
[15:29] Yeah.
[15:29] Um it's a different type of stress
[15:31] because their sort of subjective
[15:32] experience and lifestyle is better on a
[15:34] dayto-day. But it's interesting that
[15:36] it's it's really relative to your your
[15:38] outgoings.
[15:39] Exactly.
[15:40] What's the what's the fourth point then?
[15:41] So, I've got so far I've got have a
[15:43] peace of mind fund um which is one
[15:45] month's expenses. Number two is pay off
[15:48] high interest rate debt. Number three is
[15:50] build an emergency fund which is three
[15:52] times your monthly expenses if you're
[15:54] single and six times if you're in a
[15:55] relationship and and there's people
[15:57] depending on you.
[15:58] Yeah, most people actually stay here.
[16:01] Okay.
[16:01] A lot of people just save save. And I
[16:03] just want to before we move on to step
[16:04] four, I want to say that if you're
[16:05] saving, you only want to save for one of
[16:07] two things. the emergency fund and the
[16:09] piece of fund mage fund that we spoke
[16:11] about. And the second thing is for any
[16:13] goals that you have in the next five
[16:15] years, whether that's a house deposit,
[16:17] car pay, car deposit. Other than that,
[16:20] you don't want to be saving that money.
[16:22] It's going to be
[16:25] the value is going to be eaten away
[16:26] quicker with inflation if you're just
[16:28] keeping it saved in a bank account. So
[16:30] that's when you want to move on to step
[16:31] four and that is investing.
[16:33] Okay? So you don't want to save, you
[16:35] You don't want to oversave. know when to
[16:37] stop saving and start investing.
[16:40] And when does one start investing and
[16:42] stop saving?
[16:43] After they've saved the three to six
[16:44] months of the living expenses. Okay,
[16:46] that's the third step. At that point,
[16:47] once they've done step one to three,
[16:49] this is the point. And the reason why I
[16:50] say this, Stephen, is because if you
[16:52] start investing before you've got from
[16:53] steps one to three and you don't have
[16:55] your savings set aside and the market
[16:57] goes down and you have an emergency,
[17:00] you're going to have to pull that money
[17:01] out at a loss.
[17:03] Yeah. or you're going to have to go into
[17:05] debt, which is why that was step two,
[17:07] cut the financial bleeding.
[17:08] So, it's really important to have steps
[17:10] one to three done before you even think
[17:13] about investing.
[17:14] Okay?
[17:15] Those 3 to six months, it's your core
[17:16] living expenses. So, it's forget all
[17:20] your spending on the things that you
[17:22] love or the things that make make life
[17:23] good. It's just the things that you need
[17:25] to absolutely survive because if you do
[17:27] job lose your job, you're not going to
[17:29] be out partying and spending loads of
[17:31] money. You're going to think, okay, how
[17:33] do I pay my bills for the next 3 months?
[17:35] How do I survive for the next month?
[17:37] That's the thing that's going to cover
[17:38] that off.
[17:39] Okay. Right.
[17:40] Yeah.
[17:40] So, it's not like the season ticket at
[17:42] Manchester United or the Louis Vuitton
[17:43] jackets. It's
[17:44] No. No.
[17:45] It's just your your your heating, your
[17:46] bills, your food, survival.
[17:49] Yeah.
[17:49] So, number four is investing.
[17:51] Number four is investing. For a while,
[17:53] we've heard of the phrase save for
[17:56] retirement.
[17:57] Yeah.
[17:58] Saving for retirement. You cannot save
[17:59] your way to retirement with the way cost
[18:01] of living is going, with the way
[18:03] inflation is going, with the price
[18:05] retirement is going to cost by the time
[18:07] you get there. Saving is just not
[18:08] enough. You have to be investing your
[18:10] money. And there are two main ways that
[18:15] you can invest. But before I even say
[18:17] that, most people know that they should
[18:18] be investing, but they don't do it. They
[18:22] say, "I'll do it tomorrow or next week
[18:23] or next year
[18:24] or when I'm rich." And then by the time
[18:27] they do start, they've missed out on the
[18:29] most powerful lever that they had going
[18:31] for them, which is time. That is one of
[18:34] the most important things when it comes
[18:35] often when it comes to investing,
[18:38] because of the way when you start
[18:40] investing with small recurring amounts,
[18:41] it just compounds over time. So early
[18:45] there's two avenues to invest through.
[18:47] The first is through your employer
[18:49] sponsored retirement account
[18:52] and the second is through your own
[18:53] individual
[18:55] uh tax advantaged account.
[18:57] What are those two things?
[18:59] The first is done through your employer.
[19:02] So what they do is they invest on behalf
[19:04] of you. In the UK, you're automatically
[19:06] enrolled into it. In the US, you'll have
[19:08] to check check with your HR and get
[19:10] yourself enrolled into it. And what this
[19:11] does is your company before you it pays
[19:14] you or puts money into your bank
[19:15] account. It takes a small percentage you
[19:17] could decide how much and it puts it
[19:19] towards investments
[19:21] for you on behalf of you pre-tax. So
[19:23] you're not paying tax on that amount.
[19:25] You're putting into an investment
[19:26] account and then that money is
[19:27] compounding for you pre-tax.
[19:29] Do all employees do this?
[19:31] Most employers do it. Not all employers
[19:32] do it. And some employers have a match
[19:35] which means if you put some money in,
[19:37] they will also match that amount that
[19:38] you're putting in. So, how do I know if
[19:40] my employee does this?
[19:41] Check with your HR.
[19:42] And is there a cap?
[19:43] There is a cap to how much they will
[19:45] match.
[19:45] Yeah.
[19:46] Um, so say if they match up to 3%, then
[19:49] you want to put in the 3%. But then you
[19:50] could keep going, but at this stage, you
[19:52] don't even need to go over the match at
[19:54] this point of the the steps. You just
[19:56] want to put in enough to meet that match
[19:58] because you're getting the tax benefit
[20:00] and then you're also getting free money
[20:02] from your sponsored plan on top of that.
[20:04] You don't want to leave that on the
[20:05] table.
[20:05] And when can I pull that money out? when
[20:08] you retire at retirement. So, this is
[20:10] for your retirement. You're looking
[20:12] after your future self. It's today's you
[20:14] planting seeds for future you. That's
[20:16] what this is about.
[20:17] What about people that say, "Listen,
[20:18] retirement's a long way away."
[20:20] Yeah.
[20:20] You know, I'm going to be what, 65, 75.
[20:24] It's just a long way away. I want to
[20:25] live a good I want to live it up now,
[20:29] I don't want to be putting money in a
[20:30] box that I can't open for 50 years.
[20:32] And you want to spend the money now to
[20:34] live the good life.
[20:36] I the most important thing when it comes
[20:39] to money is understanding what you want
[20:41] and then making sure your money backs
[20:43] those decisions. And I say this because
[20:45] when I was in the graduate scheme, there
[20:47] were two very different people who
[20:48] worked in my team. And the first person
[20:51] who sat opposite me on the bank of seats
[20:53] in front of me, he used to come in in
[20:55] his Ferrari and he on Monday morning
[20:58] when we were talking about what we did
[20:59] over our weekend, what we did on the
[21:01] weekend, he would talk about the
[21:02] Michelin star restaurants he tried, the
[21:04] last minute trip to Italy and his
[21:05] computer screen was the next car that he
[21:07] wanted. And on my left was Phil, who
[21:11] later become my mentor. And he came in
[21:13] with his pack lunch. He wore the same
[21:16] shirt tie combo that I could probably
[21:18] remember it and sketch it from memory.
[21:20] And he had his holidays, he had his
[21:23] vacations, but he was a lot more
[21:24] selective about them.
[21:27] And I didn't see it at the time, but now
[21:30] it's so clear to me that they were
[21:32] chasing very different things. The
[21:34] person opposite of me, he was chasing
[21:36] this good life, the stories, the status,
[21:39] the memories, and that was important to
[21:40] him, and he went for it. But Phil, and I
[21:44] visited him just before I came to LA,
[21:46] him, his wife, um, his two kids, dogs in
[21:49] their countryside home, and he was
[21:51] enjoying the retired life. He was
[21:55] loving life. He bought what he wanted,
[21:57] which was early retirement, freedom,
[21:59] time, choice.
[22:02] Neither path is wrong, but both paths,
[22:05] both people required taking a series of
[22:07] trade-offs.
[22:10] Both had to make some sacrifices. And I
[22:12] think that's the thing that people miss.
[22:13] Sometimes it's so easy to say yes to the
[22:15] thing right in front of you because the
[22:17] benefit is there. The benefit is
[22:18] immediate. You don't realize what you're
[22:20] going to miss out on later on in life.
[22:22] So the guy that was sat opposite you
[22:24] with the Ferrari, what was the
[22:25] trade-offs he was making?
[22:26] He was probably going to be end up
[22:28] working for the until he had retirement
[22:31] money to spend. He was going to spend
[22:33] his life at banking, but he was going to
[22:34] live it big, but he wouldn't have the
[22:36] freedom, the choice, the time because
[22:38] his spending and his income matched each
[22:41] other.
[22:42] And so what I want to just say is for
[22:44] anyone saying, "Oh, I just want to live
[22:46] it big. I want to enjoy the money." Find
[22:48] out what is the thing that's most
[22:50] important to you. And make sure your
[22:52] your money choices stack that decision
[22:55] because the wrong choice isn't choosing
[22:57] the wrong path. It's just not knowing
[22:59] that you even had a choice in this whole
[23:00] thing. Do you think the guy that's sat
[23:02] opposite you with the Ferrari was in any
[23:05] way insecure? Was there an element of
[23:08] seeking validation?
[23:10] There might have been. Yeah, there might
[23:11] have been. That's that that might been
[23:13] what made him happy. But I think it's
[23:14] also not having the self-awareness to if
[23:17] that made him happy, then by all means.
[23:19] But if it didn't make him happy, and a
[23:21] lot of people do that do this, me
[23:23] included. I've I've gone through this.
[23:25] I've done it. When you don't know what
[23:26] makes you happy, you end up just doing
[23:28] things that gets you that external
[23:30] validation. And for some people, it
[23:32] might mean, okay, you know what? I
[23:33] actually do enjoy this new car. It does
[23:35] bring me happiness. But for others, it
[23:38] might just be a facade. And later on,
[23:40] they later on in life, they just
[23:41] realized that actually no one really
[23:42] cared. The only person who cared was me.
[23:44] And although I did it for other people,
[23:47] it's uh now I realize that all the
[23:49] trade-offs I had to make as a result of
[23:51] it. Because happiness and external
[23:53] validation, they're like cousins.
[23:56] Yeah.
[23:56] But they're not the same guy. Do you
[23:59] know what I mean? They're like they look
[24:00] they're kind of like of the same family,
[24:02] but one of them's they're like
[24:03] dysfunctional sibling,
[24:05] but they kind of look the same. You
[24:07] know, you look at that guy in his in his
[24:08] Ferrari, you go, "Oh, must be happy."
[24:10] And he comes in and he's probably got a
[24:12] smile on his face because he's talking
[24:13] about his Ferrari.
[24:14] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what he's built
[24:16] himself on, I guess.
[24:18] But I don't know if that's happiness.
[24:19] You know, the guy without the Ferrari
[24:21] might be.
[24:22] I think universally most people what
[24:24] they want is
[24:26] the freedom and the choice and the time.
[24:28] I think more people are after that and
[24:31] that can make more people happier than
[24:34] any status symbol
[24:36] because when you do end up going down
[24:37] the route of buying something to make
[24:39] your make you happy, you're on a hedonic
[24:42] treadmill. you're then buying the next
[24:43] thing and the next thing and the next
[24:44] thing and you get those spikes of
[24:47] happiness. There never is really long
[24:49] lasting fulfilling happiness.
[24:51] So investing strategy number one is
[24:52] asking your employer about their
[24:54] investment scheme.
[24:55] Finding out if your employer has yeah an
[24:57] retirement plan and making sure that
[24:59] you're invested into it enough to cover
[25:02] the match that they offer.
[25:03] What's strategy number two?
[25:05] The strategy number two is your own
[25:07] individual tax advantaged investment
[25:09] account. This is ISA in the UK and this
[25:12] is where you put your own money after
[25:14] tax into an investment account and then
[25:18] the money grows over time taxfree. So
[25:22] when you pull it out at the end you
[25:24] could with um the UK you could pull it
[25:26] out in 5 years and 10 years or in
[25:29] retirement then you could withdraw that
[25:31] money taxree. So both of them have
[25:33] taxable advantages. One is when you put
[25:35] the money in, you're getting the tax
[25:36] advantages. The other one's when you
[25:37] draw the money out, but they both have
[25:38] tax advantages. And so you're putting
[25:40] the money in and it's growing taxfree.
[25:42] That's really a big deal. That's huge.
[25:44] That's that's money that's compounding
[25:45] for you and you're not paying tax on
[25:47] that.
[25:48] But there's a limit.
[25:49] There's a limit uh annually it's 20,000.
[25:52] But
[25:52] in the UK and the US,
[25:53] it changes um year. at the moment I
[25:56] believe at $7,000 but with a quick
[25:58] Google search you could stay on top of
[25:59] whatever the current limit is for the
[26:01] account or the taxable advantage account
[26:03] that you're investing in.
[26:04] So I get paid I put it into my in the UK
[26:06] it's called an ISA.
[26:08] Yeah.
[26:08] And the the limit is 20k. So if I put
[26:11] 20k in let's say
[26:12] Yeah.
[26:13] If it goes to a 100k because the
[26:15] investments go really well is the whole
[26:18] 100k taxree.
[26:19] Yeah. You're not paying capital gains
[26:20] tax. You're not paying interest. I mean
[26:23] sorry dividends tax. So pretty much
[26:25] that's the first place everyone should
[26:26] really be investing if they want an
[26:28] alternative to investing in their
[26:29] pension.
[26:30] Yeah, that's the first thing you want to
[26:31] cap out because of the taxable benefits
[26:33] that come with it.
[26:35] Is it called a Roth IRA in the US?
[26:37] That's right.
[26:38] So it's max contribution is $7,000 to
[26:41] $8,000 a year if you're 50 or older.
[26:46] Yeah. The specific amounts depending on
[26:48] who you are. Standard employee
[26:49] contribution limit of $23,000.
[26:51] Interesting.
[26:52] Whereas in UK it's just a flat
[26:54] 20,000 is the current.
[26:57] And with my ISA, this taxfree ISA that
[27:00] everyone is eligible to invest in, do I
[27:02] then have to pick the things it invests
[27:05] in?
[27:06] Yes.
[27:06] Okay.
[27:07] This is the next Oh, we could talk about
[27:08] this now actually. Yeah. So, when you
[27:10] are deciding what to invest in, this is
[27:13] with the employer sponsored account, the
[27:14] employee sponsored retirement account,
[27:16] you actually just choose what risk
[27:18] profile you have and it will do that
[27:20] investing for you. So you'll say I'm I
[27:22] feel really risky or I'm not very risky
[27:24] at all. Yeah.
[27:25] And it does it for you
[27:25] and it does it will invest on behalf of
[27:27] you.
[27:28] Yeah.
[27:28] And so most people don't even realize
[27:29] that they're investing but they are
[27:30] investing through their company if they
[27:31] have that employer sponsor plan.
[27:34] Then the individual account is you doing
[27:37] the investing yourself. You're picking
[27:39] what to invest in.
[27:40] Yeah.
[27:41] And what shall I invest in?
[27:42] My principle with investing is very very
[27:45] simple and it's just keep it keep it
[27:48] simple and do it for the long term. So I
[27:49] say index funds and target date
[27:51] retirement funds is what you want to
[27:53] invest in.
[27:53] What's that?
[27:54] An index fund. Let's put it out. An
[27:56] index, think of it as a list of
[27:59] companies. So the S&P 500 is a list of
[28:03] the largest the top 500 companies to
[28:05] keep this really simple. Footsie 100 is
[28:08] the top 100 companies in the on the
[28:10] London Stock Exchange. The fund is a pot
[28:14] of money that invests in the companies
[28:17] on that list.
[28:19] So by investing in an S&P 500, you've
[28:22] invested in a small piece of the top 500
[28:24] companies in the US. That's what an
[28:27] index fund is. And so even if one
[28:29] company goes down, you're diversified.
[28:32] And so there'll be another company that
[28:34] will and the other companies will bring
[28:36] it back up again.
[28:38] And what kind of performance can I
[28:39] expect from investing in the S&P 500?
[28:42] Historically speaking, um the long-term
[28:45] average has been 8 to 10% per year
[28:48] depending on the years and the time
[28:50] frame that you're looking at. That is
[28:53] different to a one-year holding period.
[28:55] It could go up, it could go down, you
[28:57] just don't know. So, the longer you
[28:58] invest for, the chances of you getting
[29:01] that 8 to 10% on average increase.
[29:04] Is 8 to 10% going to make me rich
[29:06] though, Nisha?
[29:07] How long are you doing it for?
[29:09] You tell me. If you have a lumpsum
[29:12] amount that you're like, "Okay, you know
[29:12] what? I have 2,000 that I want to
[29:14] invest. What should I do with it and
[29:16] it's taking me five years to invest
[29:18] this?"
[29:19] I would say 1,900 of that. Don't invest
[29:24] it. 100 of it. Invest. And I'll I'll say
[29:28] why I'm saying this. 100. I want you to
[29:31] invest it for anyone listening. I want
[29:32] you to listen. I want you to invest that
[29:33] because I want you to see and feel the
[29:37] emotions when you see your money go up
[29:39] over time. Sure, it's going to be small.
[29:41] It's not going to make you rich
[29:43] investing that, but you're going to
[29:45] instill that good habit early on. And
[29:47] you're going to remember that because
[29:49] the remaining amount, you're going to
[29:51] put that towards increasing your income.
[29:54] That's the first thing you're going to
[29:55] do. Think of your income as a river and
[29:59] your specific milestones, life
[30:01] milestones, as buckets across the river.
[30:03] So, you have retirement, you have your
[30:05] house deposit, you have your car payment
[30:08] that you're all saving up for. Those
[30:11] buckets will fill up faster the quicker
[30:14] and wider that river is. That is your
[30:16] income that's coming through. If you
[30:18] don't have much of an income coming
[30:19] through, those buckets are going to take
[30:21] ages to fill up. That's why I say if
[30:22] it's taken you a long time to save that
[30:24] amount, I actually would recommend you
[30:26] putting that money towards increasing
[30:27] your income first before investing it.
[30:31] If however you have disposable income,
[30:34] you have an reoccurring amount that you
[30:36] can invest monthly,
[30:39] use that to your advantage. Harness the
[30:42] power of long-term compounding growth
[30:44] because that is the thing that is going
[30:45] to make you rich. Sure, it will take 25,
[30:48] 30 years, but that is leverage that you
[30:50] don't get through your day job. It's
[30:51] your money working for you without you
[30:53] having to be there. So you would suggest
[30:56] if you're really at that early level to
[30:58] focus on increasing your income,
[31:00] investing in increasing your income.
[31:01] Yeah, that's the first thing. If you're
[31:03] figuring out, okay, I need to increase
[31:04] my income. It's taking me a while to
[31:06] earn this amount and I only have a lump
[31:09] sum of 2,000 5,000. Focus on increasing
[31:11] your income. Yeah, that's what I would
[31:13] say.
[31:14] And how does one focus on increasing
[31:15] their income?
[31:16] There are a couple of ways to do this.
[31:18] So the easiest way to increase your
[31:22] income is asking for a pay rise,
[31:26] increasing your responsibility, the work
[31:28] that you do, your contributions, and
[31:31] saying to your boss or your manager,
[31:33] this is the value that I've bought. This
[31:35] is the responsibility that I've taken
[31:36] on. This is what the market is paying
[31:38] for a similar role, and this is why a
[31:40] pay rise is fair.
[31:43] The other option,
[31:44] did you ever ask for a pay rise?
[31:45] Multiple times. multiple multiple times
[31:48] when you're in investment banking.
[31:49] Yeah. It's one of those things where
[31:54] if you don't ask, you don't get. Of
[31:56] course, you'll get, but you sitting
[31:59] there and thinking the hard work is
[32:00] going to show without you asking for it.
[32:03] It's unlikely. You're going to have to
[32:06] build a case and say, "Okay, these are
[32:08] the things I've done. These are the
[32:10] things that we said we were going to do
[32:12] or I wanted to work on in my performance
[32:14] review," which is what I had. get to the
[32:16] end of the performance review and these
[32:17] are the things that I actually did and
[32:18] this is where I went above and beyond.
[32:20] So if I'm your boss Nisha. Yeah. If we
[32:21] just replay one of those conversations
[32:23] you had.
[32:24] Yeah.
[32:24] You were sat in a performance review and
[32:27] what did you say to me?
[32:29] I would say hey Stephen. Hey,
[32:32] 3 months ago or 6 months ago, we spoke
[32:35] about um the things that I needed to do
[32:38] to get promoted or to get a pay rise.
[32:42] And we mentioned XY Z and I've done all
[32:45] of those things here and here is the
[32:48] feedback that I've got. Here is where
[32:50] I've gone above and beyond. And this is
[32:52] some extra things that other people or
[32:55] the 360 feedback that I've done. And
[32:56] that this is what it says.
[33:00] Yeah. And that's when I was like, do you
[33:02] think that this is the bracket that we
[33:03] discussed? Do you think that's fair?
[33:05] Research shows that women are much less
[33:08] likely to ask for a pay rise and when
[33:11] they do, they are less likely to get one
[33:13] compared to men.
[33:15] Is that kind of what you found?
[33:17] Yeah, I've seen those facts and I think
[33:19] it's really such a shame that when a
[33:22] woman asks for a pay rise, it may not be
[33:23] seen in the same way as when a male
[33:26] counterpart asks for the payriseise. And
[33:30] the factors that we can control are the
[33:34] being prepared,
[33:35] having the book of all the things that
[33:37] you've done. But I recommend and this is
[33:39] things that I done when I was in an
[33:40] organization or when I felt like even I
[33:43] was being paid less than my male
[33:45] counterpart is speaking firstly if
[33:48] there's a HR team in your department
[33:51] speaking to them and asking am I online
[33:53] or am I aligned to the average for my
[33:56] department and for what my role is. they
[33:59] can give you a really good guideline as
[34:00] to whether you are underpaid or whether
[34:02] you deserve a bump to be more aligned to
[34:06] the general pay in in that role. And the
[34:10] second thing is have an ally or have
[34:12] someone in your workplace that you'd
[34:13] always speak to, whether it's a mentor,
[34:15] whether it's a colleague. And it's worth
[34:18] always speaking to other people about
[34:20] money. It's such a taboo topic.
[34:22] Yeah,
[34:23] we hate it. We hate talking to someone
[34:25] else about their salary, what they're
[34:27] making, but the more financial
[34:29] transparency that we encourage, the more
[34:32] we can learn from each other.
[34:33] Yeah.
[34:34] Openly ask the person next to you, hey,
[34:36] this is what do you get paid? As much as
[34:38] hard as that is, open up that
[34:40] conversation. But the other way to
[34:43] increase your income is actually through
[34:44] switching jobs, switching companies.
[34:48] Because there's so much research that's
[34:50] been done,
[34:52] and the most popular one is actually one
[34:54] cited by Forbes that says
[34:58] people who stay at the same company for
[35:00] two years or more on average earn 50%
[35:03] less over their lifetime.
[35:06] And I've made a video on my salary year
[35:10] by year over the last over the nine
[35:13] years I spent in banking. And the
[35:15] biggest pay jumps that I saw were from
[35:18] switching
[35:20] companies.
[35:22] So those are the the two ways that I
[35:24] would actually say yeah increase your
[35:25] income by asking for more by switching.
[35:28] I do think one of the most effective
[35:29] ways that I've seen as well is just
[35:30] looking at the industry as well and
[35:33] presenting a case from the industry and
[35:34] people have done that to me several
[35:35] times. They've over the last 10 years
[35:37] they've come to me and said the industry
[35:39] pay for my role and my seniority level
[35:42] in this part of the world in this city
[35:44] is this I'm currently on this um is can
[35:47] we have a conversation about about this
[35:50] to rectify it and
[35:53] I can't think of an instance where I
[35:54] haven't been receptive to that
[35:56] especially if it's justified you know
[35:57] because actually sometimes the employee
[35:58] doesn't know the employee doesn't know
[36:00] that they might be underpaying you um
[36:01] that's a a genuine possibility I know
[36:04] that sounds like crazy talk But
[36:05] sometimes employees don't know because a
[36:07] lot of roles that we're hiring for these
[36:09] days are new roles. They're not roles
[36:10] that existed 10 years ago. Even in
[36:13] podcasting, like there's it's hard to
[36:15] find benchmarks for what people were
[36:16] paid in podcasting 10 years ago for
[36:18] different roles that now exist in our
[36:20] industry. So it's worth having a convers
[36:22] an honest conversation. And I do think I
[36:25] do think from the employer standpoint
[36:27] it's worth leading with the value that
[36:31] you've brought like you've said versus
[36:34] blunt demands because humans are human
[36:37] beings and you can turn someone's nose
[36:40] up or their backup by the way in which
[36:42] you deliver your message but delivering
[36:43] it from an evidence-based perspective
[36:46] and saying this these are kind of the
[36:47] accomplishments that I've made and these
[36:49] are the responsibilities I've taken on
[36:51] and this is like the industry um average
[36:54] and I love being here and I want to stay
[36:56] here. Um so I was wondering if it'd be
[36:57] possible to have a conversation about
[36:59] my salary. I'd receive that very very
[37:02] well.
[37:03] And even aligning it to your company's
[37:05] objectives. This is what I was doing.
[37:07] Yeah. Exactly. Here is what I've done
[37:09] aligned to your objectives that you're
[37:11] looking for.
[37:12] Exactly.
[37:12] And you talked about um saving for a
[37:15] house as well. Is do you see buying a
[37:18] house as a good investment? Because it
[37:20] is it is the first thing most people do,
[37:21] right? It's like the first thing we're
[37:23] told as part of the like script of life.
[37:25] When you get some money, save it up, get
[37:28] a mortgage.
[37:29] A lot of our view about buying or
[37:31] renting or buying a house is actually
[37:34] formed from what we saw our parents do
[37:36] and what we saw the generation before us
[37:37] do. And so even looking at my life
[37:43] formed from the way my parents thought
[37:46] they came to the UK as immigrants and
[37:48] when they bought their first house it
[37:50] was like the epitome of success.
[37:54] They had this thing that they can
[37:58] that represented wealth for them that
[38:01] they could touch, they could see, they
[38:02] could feel. It represented stability,
[38:04] security. And then when we moved out of
[38:07] that terrace home into another home, it
[38:09] was between two stations in a catchment
[38:11] area. So me and my sisters got access to
[38:13] better schools. That was then their
[38:14] happiness. That was then their goal and
[38:17] the milestone achieved.
[38:20] And for the previous generation
[38:25] and still the way people see it today
[38:27] when people say, "Oh, we need to build
[38:29] buy a house for wealth building." It's
[38:31] because a big factor of it is that it
[38:34] was a forced mechanism of saving.
[38:38] So when you're buying a house or paying
[38:40] for a mortgage, that's not optional. You
[38:42] have to pay it. You then can't then
[38:45] spend that money on anything else. And
[38:47] so as a result, those monthly payments
[38:50] are going towards building your equity
[38:52] and building this house's value. And as
[38:55] a byproduct, it's building wealth for
[38:57] you. So for someone listening to this,
[39:00] if they're hearing this conversation,
[39:01] they say, "Okay, you know what? I have I
[39:03] have a goal to buy and they run the
[39:05] numbers, it makes sense for them,
[39:07] they're doing it for the long term."
[39:10] Then I would say that's a really good
[39:11] goal to have. Go for it. But I think we
[39:15] put a lot of pressure on people today
[39:17] that they need to buy a house and as
[39:19] soon as they start working that they
[39:21] need to get onto that property ladder.
[39:23] So, if you're listening to this and
[39:24] thinking that I don't have a goal to buy
[39:27] a house, then there are also ways to
[39:30] build wealth that don't require you to
[39:32] be in the real estate game.
[39:33] I think there's something psychological
[39:35] about paying rent that you never see
[39:36] again. That makes you think that it's a
[39:39] terrible idea.
[39:39] Yeah.
[39:40] And sometimes when you look at the
[39:41] mortgage payment versus the rental
[39:42] payment, you go, "Well, they're the same
[39:44] and I'll end up owning this chunk of
[39:46] concrete,
[39:47] so I might as well go for the chunk of
[39:48] concrete."
[39:49] Yeah. But if you are choosing to rent
[39:51] and actually there's been studies that's
[39:53] done on this almost nine out of 12
[39:56] regions in the UK and the same applies
[39:58] for other areas in the world as well.
[40:00] It's renting is or can be cheaper than
[40:03] buying in that equivalent neighborhood.
[40:04] And so if you are renting and you're
[40:07] saving money on that difference then
[40:09] you've got to be disciplined and
[40:11] sensible enough to know that
[40:14] you need to invest the difference.
[40:16] What you mean? So, if your rent is 1,500
[40:20] and to get that mortgage and you've
[40:22] checked the mortgage payments and you've
[40:23] realized that with the interest that
[40:25] you're going to be paying on the
[40:26] mortgage, all the other things that come
[40:27] into buying a house, so the stamp duty
[40:29] that you're paying, the property tax,
[40:31] the repairs, the maintenance, the
[40:32] insurance, if you factor in the cost of
[40:34] both, and you do run the numbers and you
[40:37] say, "Okay, renting is cheaper than
[40:39] buying than getting a home." That
[40:41] difference is what you want to be able
[40:44] to invest. It's kind of a way for you to
[40:47] say, "I'm creating my own forced
[40:49] mechanism of saving. This is my own
[40:51] version of a mortgage. I'm the man I'm
[40:53] saving. I'm going to set up an
[40:54] investment account and I'm going to
[40:56] automate it and I'm going to put money
[40:57] into it every single month."
[40:58] Mhm.
[40:59] And that's the way you're going to build
[41:00] wealth. That's just as legitimate. And
[41:03] actually, I've I've went onto the
[41:05] property ladder and the money that I put
[41:07] in towards that flat
[41:10] hasn't grown as near as much as the
[41:13] money that I made through the stock
[41:14] market
[41:15] by investing in the S&P 500.
[41:18] So, tell me about that. So, you you
[41:20] bought a property in London or somewhere
[41:22] in the world
[41:22] in North London.
[41:23] Okay.
[41:24] Um to live in.
[41:25] Okay.
[41:26] And I bought it in 2017.
[41:29] Okay.
[41:29] Yeah.
[41:30] and it's gone up in value I'd say about
[41:34] 10%.
[41:35] Okay,
[41:36] I've had about eight years. Then you
[41:39] compare that to the stock market. So
[41:41] sure, there's a numbers side of it where
[41:42] people think, okay, I need to buy a
[41:44] house to build wealth, but that's what
[41:45] I'm trying to explain that actually if
[41:48] you save that money and you invested it,
[41:49] you might be better off financially. But
[41:51] coming back to your point, yes, there's
[41:52] that psychological thing of okay, do I
[41:55] want to pay that money on rent or do I
[41:57] want to buy? The other psychological
[42:00] part of it is also
[42:02] the comfort of knowing that you have
[42:04] somewhere. And this is a big reason as
[42:06] to why I bought. The comfort of knowing
[42:08] that no matter what happens, you have
[42:10] this place. It's yours. The landlord
[42:13] can't serve you notice. You can do
[42:15] whatever you want to the
[42:17] flat within certain restrictions and
[42:20] rules. And you have this piece of the
[42:22] earth that belongs to you. And so that's
[42:24] the psychological comfort that came from
[42:25] it. Sure, we could talk about the
[42:26] numbers and what investing will do and
[42:28] how much you can make on that, but the
[42:29] bit that often gets forgotten about is
[42:31] the invisible side, which is
[42:34] the peace of mind, the psychological
[42:36] comfort of just owning a home.
[42:39] So, can I ask how much did your
[42:42] apartment cost in London?
[42:44] 530.
[42:47] So, you spent 530k on it? Yeah.
[42:49] Um, presumably on like a mortgage or
[42:51] something at the time.
[42:52] Yeah, it was on a mortgage. Yeah.
[42:53] So, 530K. It's gone up 10%.
[42:56] Yeah, it's gone up about 50k.
[42:59] About 50k. So, it's now worth 580.
[43:02] But if you'd put that amount of money
[43:04] into the S&P 500.
[43:06] Well, the thing with the house in a flat
[43:08] is you could use the mortgage, you
[43:10] wouldn't put that full amount in it
[43:11] because you had the mortgage. But if you
[43:13] put that deposit amount into it.
[43:14] Yeah. The deposit amount. Yeah.
[43:16] Yeah. The the amount that you would have
[43:17] put on just a down payment. Um the stamp
[43:19] duty that I would have also paid. If I
[43:21] saved that amount and then put it put
[43:22] that amount whatever it was and invested
[43:25] that that's the comparison that I would
[43:27] have made.
[43:28] So how much was that in total that you
[43:29] paid into the
[43:31] um
[43:31] property?
[43:33] I put about
[43:35] 50 I think K.
[43:38] 50k and probably the net return on that
[43:42] if it's gone up
[43:45] 10%.
[43:45] Yeah. So tank
[43:46] 55k.
[43:47] Yeah. And the S&P 500 in the same time
[43:51] has delivered roughly 10 to 12% per year
[43:54] on average. It has more than doubled in
[43:58] value since 2017.
[44:01] So you would have probably got
[44:03] there you go.
[44:04] Pretty incredible return on the S&P 500.
[44:06] Even in the last 5 years, the S&P 500
[44:08] has grown 90%.
[44:09] Yeah, makes sense.
[44:10] So it's almost doubled in the last 5
[44:11] years alone, which which means you would
[44:12] have basically doubled your money just
[44:14] investing it in an index fund.
[44:15] Are you looking at that from the lows of
[44:17] the co? Yeah, it says even with the co
[44:19] lows, it says so um it has more than
[44:21] doubled in value since 2017 driven by
[44:23] strong growth in technology despite the
[44:25] co crash and 2022 pullback
[44:29] last years.
[44:30] Case in point that we we're we're
[44:34] looking at building wealth just through
[44:36] one mechanism
[44:38] that feels like it's urgent and needs to
[44:40] be done by everyone. But actually, if
[44:43] you're looking at it purely from a
[44:45] numbers and building wealth perspective,
[44:46] there are other ways to do that.
[44:49] My brother is was an investment banker.
[44:51] He now works full-time um helping with
[44:54] my money and helping in my my companies.
[44:56] He went to LSC. He's a very smart guy.
[44:58] He's always been like the buffin in the
[45:00] family. He always talked to me about
[45:02] this ter opportunity cost. So, when I
[45:05] told him I said, I want to buy this
[45:06] house in Cape Town. He was like, you
[45:08] know, this is going to cost you X
[45:09] millions. Um, think about the
[45:11] opportunity cost.
[45:12] Yeah.
[45:12] And he always every time I say I want to
[45:14] do this, he's like, think about the
[45:15] opportunity cost. And he he basically
[45:16] stands in the way of it. What is
[45:18] opportunity cost? And why should why
[45:20] should people be thinking about this
[45:21] when they're spending their money?
[45:24] So every pound or dollar that we spend
[45:26] is one less that we could use on
[45:28] something else. And that is the
[45:30] opportunity cost in essence.
[45:33] And we often
[45:35] don't think about life in terms of
[45:36] opportunity costs because we only look
[45:38] at the thing that is in front of us. So
[45:40] your brother was telling you about how
[45:42] you can make more money investing
[45:45] somewhere else. But what you saw is this
[45:46] one thing in front of you and you
[45:47] thought no, I don't even know if I'm
[45:49] going to make this money elsewhere. I
[45:50] don't know if that's going to happen.
[45:51] This thing is right in front of me.
[45:53] And that's the thing with the with
[45:54] opportunity cost is always a a trade-off
[45:56] of what you can see and what you can't
[45:58] see. But with every decision you make,
[45:59] there's something else that you're
[46:00] saying no to. is coming at the cost of
[46:02] something else.
[46:03] I was thinking about that as you you
[46:04] were talking and just to give a bit of
[46:06] color to this for people at home and a
[46:09] good example of opportunity cost. So
[46:10] like yesterday I bought lunch for the
[46:12] team, right? And the lunch cost $100. It
[46:14] was like the salad bar in in Los Angeles
[46:16] cost me $100. Fine. $100, who cares? But
[46:19] then when I think about the numbers you
[46:21] shared earlier on, if I'd taken that
[46:23] $100 and put it into the S&P 500 in 40
[46:26] years, assuming I got 10% return a year,
[46:28] which is like the average of the S&P,
[46:30] that is almost $5,000.
[46:33] So in terms of opportunity cost, buying
[46:34] the team lunch for $100 has effectively
[46:37] cost me in opportunity $5,000 that I
[46:40] would have had um presuming that return
[46:43] in 40 years from now. So that lunch
[46:45] yesterday actually cost me potentially
[46:47] roughly $5,000.
[46:49] Yeah. And I guess for you it's
[46:52] that's the last time the team get lunch.
[46:54] But on the other side, you might have
[46:56] missed out on how the team felt
[46:58] going to that lunch and the invisible
[47:00] benefits that you might have got from
[47:02] that. Whether it was just the memories
[47:03] at that moment in time, whether it's the
[47:05] motivation,
[47:06] whether it's the culture that you're
[47:08] bringing in, that's the thing that you
[47:10] might miss out on if you choose that
[47:12] $5,000 in X years of time. And I guess
[47:15] it's a balancing act as well. Like you
[47:16] know, I was thinking about the guy you
[47:17] mentioned with a Ferrari and if he were
[47:19] to die today, one could argue that in
[47:23] fact he played life correctly.
[47:25] Absolutely.
[47:26] Because he lived it. He saw it. He did
[47:28] it.
[47:29] And this is I think the difference you
[47:30] see in people. Some people have that
[47:32] long-term view where they think, "No, I
[47:33] want my money when I'm 65 or 70 in my
[47:35] pension fund." And other people play a
[47:37] bit more short term in their life and
[47:38] go, I just want to have good experiences
[47:39] now.
[47:41] And so it's hard to understand who's
[47:43] right because we don't know how this
[47:44] story ends, I guess.
[47:45] Yeah. And I think there's a fine line,
[47:46] but there's also a way to balance living
[47:49] in the present with planning with for
[47:50] the future by understanding that you are
[47:53] going to allocate a specific amount of
[47:55] the money that comes in towards the here
[47:57] and now. And then the rest you are going
[48:00] to look use towards the future you
[48:02] because there's something very rewarding
[48:04] about spending now. When you know the
[48:07] future you has already been looked
[48:08] after, it makes you want to spend it
[48:12] without thinking, oh, what is this
[48:13] coming at the opportunity cost of?
[48:16] Do you think people should buy a house
[48:18] if their objective is to make money or
[48:20] do you think there are other
[48:23] opportunities like the S&P 500, like
[48:25] using your tax-free ISA? A lot of people
[48:28] listening probably don't have or on
[48:30] their way to building a deposit or
[48:32] working their way to have the money for
[48:33] a deposit. If they're putting themselves
[48:35] under pressure and they think that
[48:36] they're just buying a house to build
[48:38] wealth, I would say actually look into
[48:42] investing through that stocks and shares
[48:44] ISA as a start that is taxfree. If you
[48:47] haven't even started investing through
[48:48] that stocks and shares is which by the
[48:50] way 75%
[48:52] roughly of people in the UK aren't
[48:53] investing.
[48:55] So yeah, I would definitely say open
[48:57] that up first.
[48:59] And do you think one should split a
[49:01] proportion of their investments into
[49:03] different categories of risk
[49:06] because you got like crypto on the one
[49:08] side of it which sometimes feel like
[49:09] being at roulette table and then you've
[49:11] got things that are typically safe like
[49:12] the S&P 500.
[49:14] Yeah, I'm going to say with the stocks
[49:16] and shares actually when you invest in
[49:17] and a lot of people also want to invest
[49:19] in crypto but they also want to invest
[49:20] in individual stocks as well. Should I
[49:22] go after the next big winning company
[49:24] stock? Should I invest in this stock?
[49:26] Um, what I want to say is that there's
[49:28] two parts to think about the returns but
[49:33] also the behavioral concepts.
[49:35] How you feel when it comes to investing
[49:38] because
[49:39] your one of the biggest impacts on
[49:42] market performance
[49:44] is your contributions but also your
[49:47] behavior.
[49:49] So,
[49:52] Fidelity did a re found that
[49:59] people who invested in funds
[50:04] underperformed the fund that they were
[50:06] in.
[50:08] It sounds impossible.
[50:10] How can you be underperforming a fund
[50:12] that you're in? But then when they
[50:13] looked into it, they found that when
[50:17] fear and anxiety took over, when the
[50:18] market dropped, these people bought sold
[50:20] bought sold. They essentially danced in
[50:22] and out of the fund as a result
[50:25] underperforming the fund that they were
[50:26] already holding.
[50:28] Okay. So it went when it went down, they
[50:30] sold.
[50:30] Yeah. When it went down, they sold. When
[50:32] they went up, they bought. And so what
[50:34] you want to do is you want to invest in
[50:36] something that makes you buy and hold.
[50:38] Fidelity looked into the groups of
[50:41] people that had invested in their funds
[50:42] to see which group performed the best.
[50:46] And when they looked into it, they found
[50:48] one group significantly outperformed all
[50:50] other groups when it came to investment
[50:52] returns. And that was dead people. Dead
[50:56] people outperformed the living when it
[50:58] came to investment returns
[51:00] because they didn't touch their
[51:02] investment account. They just said it,
[51:05] forget it. They didn't chase the next
[51:07] company stock. They don't go after the
[51:08] thing that's going to go up really
[51:09] quickly and down really quickly. And
[51:11] that all ties into the behavior.
[51:14] You're not letting your emotions drive
[51:17] the investments. And by the way, this
[51:18] they found the second best performing
[51:20] group were the people who forgot that
[51:21] they had a fund in the first place. So
[51:23] when it comes to deciding what
[51:25] allocation you want your portfolio to
[51:26] be, it's understanding, okay, what is
[51:28] going to give you the returns, but also
[51:30] what is the thing that's going to help
[51:31] you stay the course even when the market
[51:34] goes and drops?
[51:37] What will make you feel like, okay, I
[51:39] could still stay and hold my position?
[51:41] That's how to decide what kind of
[51:43] percentage portfolio you want for
[51:44] yourself. And I've done that with my
[51:47] portfolio. There's with crypto, it's
[51:50] less than 2% of my overall portfolio.
[51:52] I've invested the amount that I feel
[51:53] like it won't make a difference if I
[51:56] lose it. And if it goes to the moon,
[51:57] great. And that's how when I say
[52:01] somewhere here, the last thing I want to
[52:02] do is encourage people before they've
[52:04] even set up the financial foundations to
[52:06] invest in something that can go up and
[52:09] come go down when 75% of the population
[52:11] isn't investing.
[52:12] Mhm.
[52:13] And the reason why they're not investing
[52:15] is because, and I keep hearing this from
[52:17] time and time again from the people I
[52:18] speak to, is either they're really
[52:19] scared they're going to lose money or
[52:22] they don't know where to start. And so
[52:24] when it comes to losing money, I always
[52:27] say do the foundations first, set up
[52:30] your portfolio there, and then move on
[52:32] to speculative assets should you want to
[52:34] go down that path. I remember the first
[52:36] time I invested and I I downloaded this
[52:38] app and I put some money in there and
[52:39] then I watched it and I was watching it
[52:41] so much and it was going up and down and
[52:43] up and down and like three four months
[52:44] later I sold it and I didn't really make
[52:47] a I think I lost a couple of a couple
[52:48] hundred quid or whatever and then I
[52:50] watched that same investment over the
[52:54] next five, six, seven years just go to
[52:57] the moon.
[52:57] Yeah,
[52:57] it went up and I remember thinking,
[52:58] I should have just kept it in
[53:00] there. And then the best investment I
[53:01] ever made correlates to what you were
[53:03] saying because I lost my password.
[53:05] I like lost the password to log in.
[53:07] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[53:08] And so I couldn't do anything about it
[53:10] anyway. And I watched it and it went
[53:11] down and up and down and up and down and
[53:12] up. But over 5 years it went really
[53:14] really high. And so when I first started
[53:16] investing in crypto and I invested in
[53:18] Ethereum and now Bitcoin, my strategy
[53:20] was the same. My strategy was get the
[53:22] the private keys and give half of them
[53:25] to one person that I trust and half of
[53:27] them to the other person that I trust.
[53:28] And even if I want to, I can't do
[53:30] anything about it. And that's proven to
[53:31] be one of my greatest returns in
[53:33] investing because I just
[53:35] I don't even know what's going on with
[53:36] it. I'm not paying attention.
[53:37] Yeah. And that's the thing, you've just
[53:39] taken the motions out of the equation.
[53:40] Yeah.
[53:41] There's no fear, greed. There's nothing
[53:42] else that controls your financial
[53:44] decisions other than logic.
[53:46] I think actually on that first
[53:48] investment I made when I was like must
[53:49] have been in my early 20ies, I needed
[53:52] the money.
[53:53] Like I didn't have the emergency fund or
[53:55] a peace of mind fund. So when it started
[53:56] to go down a little bit naturally you
[53:58] kind of panic. So I think in that the
[54:01] second season of life where I started
[54:02] investing in Ethereum and Bitcoin it
[54:03] didn't really matter if I lost the
[54:04] money. So it made it easier to hold my
[54:06] nerves. And I think nerves are such a
[54:07] huge part of investing. Um, it goes to
[54:10] what you said earlier, like it's worth
[54:11] taking $100 or £100 or whatever you can,
[54:14] which is a really inconsequential number
[54:15] of money, and putting it into some kind
[54:18] of S&P 500 or even a stock just to feel
[54:21] that almost to like train your
[54:22] psychology and emotions of like what the
[54:24] ups feel like and what the down feel
[54:26] like.
[54:26] Yeah, exactly.
[54:27] So, your investment strategy, your
[54:29] portfolio, you mentioned it there.
[54:30] Yeah.
[54:31] What does it look like?
[54:33] It's 40% funds.
[54:36] Okay. What kind of funds? index funds,
[54:39] S&P 500, uh I also do international
[54:41] markets, so UK um so emerging developed
[54:45] uh across all sectors I also do and I
[54:48] keep it very very diversified S&P 500
[54:51] target date retirement funds that
[54:54] automatically rebalance. So target date
[54:56] retirement fund for anyone who's
[54:57] listening and wondering what it is, it's
[55:00] essentially a fund that has different
[55:03] types of investments within it. So you
[55:07] could go on to a platform of your choice
[55:09] that you use to invest and you could
[55:11] type in target date retirement fund and
[55:12] at the end of every fund will have a
[55:14] year and so you want to pick the year
[55:16] that is the closest to the year that you
[55:18] plan to retire. So if you plan to retire
[55:20] in 2050, that's the year that you will
[55:22] pick. And what that fund does is it
[55:25] rebalances
[55:28] and the
[55:32] the percentage of different investments
[55:34] changes to become more conservative as
[55:36] you approach retirement.
[55:38] So it starts to protect you a little bit
[55:40] more.
[55:40] Exactly.
[55:40] So it goes risk off. it kind of goes
[55:42] less risky or
[55:43] it becomes less risky because you don't
[55:45] want to be investing the same when you
[55:46] don't have that much time as you if
[55:49] you're investing in your 20s 30s you
[55:50] have enough time to ride out the stock
[55:52] market waves
[55:53] so that's 40% of your portfolio
[55:54] that's 40% 30% is real estate
[55:57] okay in all parts of the world
[55:59] no just in the UK
[56:00] just in the UK
[56:01] yeah then I'll say about 25% I'm putting
[56:06] back into my business at the moment
[56:08] okay
[56:10] and then the remaining is between crypto
[56:12] to and cash cash and cash reserves.
[56:15] Okay. What about investing in yourself?
[56:18] Because because you know we think about
[56:20] education and skills and stuff like
[56:22] that. Should we be investing a small
[56:23] amount of money into our selves in some
[56:26] capacity?
[56:27] 100%. I think you just don't stop
[56:30] investing in yourself at any point in
[56:32] time. It goes down to increasing your
[56:35] income, increasing your skills,
[56:37] increasing your value, which then has a
[56:39] knock on effect on everything else that
[56:42] you're investing into.
[56:44] It's a really interesting time to be
[56:46] leading a business. New skills are
[56:47] constantly being invented, and ones that
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[56:50] all of a sudden essential. Our team at
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[57:34] code diary. You actually you made a
[57:37] video um about 40 books that you've read
[57:40] that improve your own financial
[57:42] literacy. If there was one book that you
[57:44] recommend people to read
[57:47] that you think is most accessible and
[57:48] will advance their financial literacy in
[57:50] the most profound way that did that for
[57:52] you, what book would you recommend?
[57:54] Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill.
[57:56] It's not actually about financial
[57:59] literacy, but it's around money mindset.
[58:02] And the other book to start with when it
[58:05] comes to financial literacy is also The
[58:07] Richest Man in Babylon. when people
[58:09] don't learn about money is because they
[58:12] find it quite boring
[58:14] and not very interesting. So, Richest
[58:16] Man in Babylon does a good job in
[58:18] intertwining a novel into financial
[58:22] literacy concepts.
[58:23] I've not read that book. I've heard a
[58:25] lot about it though.
[58:26] It's the underlying principles when it
[58:28] comes to money don't really change much
[58:30] and it's really starts at the basics
[58:32] when it comes to saving and spending.
[58:34] So, it's it's a good starting point. Are
[58:36] there any other principles of of
[58:38] building wealth that we haven't talked
[58:40] about? I mean, we we haven't talked
[58:41] about payday routines. Um, but I've
[58:45] heard you talk at length about what we
[58:47] should do when we get paid every single
[58:48] month. Some of the things we've talked
[58:50] about already, like uh knowing your
[58:53] reference point, which is was point one,
[58:56] right?
[58:57] That was your piece of mind fund. I
[58:58] guess knowing your reference point is
[59:00] essentially just
[59:02] understanding where your finances break
[59:04] down and what buckets they fall into.
[59:07] So I would
[59:10] actually say this is really important
[59:11] for anyone to know and it's the three
[59:14] numbers. It's called the 65205
[59:18] and it's three numbers that anyone
[59:19] should know when it comes to money and
[59:22] their own personal finance.
[59:24] Okay. 65205. Okay. And the way it works
[59:28] is you want to the idea of it is to take
[59:30] your
[59:32] net income. This is your take-home pay
[59:35] after you pay taxes, not the number on
[59:37] your job description,
[59:38] the number after you paid state
[59:40] contribution, all other taxes. And you
[59:42] want to split that into three buckets.
[59:45] The fundamental, which is your core
[59:47] living expenses, everything that is
[59:50] essential to your living costs. mortgage
[59:52] or rent, utilities, groceries, minimum
[59:56] debt payments,
[59:58] car payments, all of that should make up
[01:00:01] approximately 65% of your net income.
[01:00:05] Okay?
[01:00:07] The 20% that's for your fund spending.
[01:00:11] These are for the pottery painting that
[01:00:15] you booked last minute, the Glastonbury
[01:00:17] tickets, the Pilates class. That should
[01:00:19] make up about 20% of your take-home pay.
[01:00:22] And the remaining 15% that's for your
[01:00:25] future you. That's today's you planting
[01:00:28] seeds for tomorrow's you. And that
[01:00:30] should go to savings, investments, and
[01:00:32] extra debt payments. And those are three
[01:00:35] good numbers that I think everyone
[01:00:36] should know and understand as a good
[01:00:38] starting point to try and benchmark your
[01:00:41] numbers or your income against those
[01:00:45] spending categories. I would say however
[01:00:47] if you are someone who's living closer
[01:00:49] to paycheck to paycheck
[01:00:50] those numbers might look slightly
[01:00:51] different and it might be that you're
[01:00:55] you want to dial down that fund
[01:00:58] percentage to have enough saved over for
[01:01:00] the future you so you can continue
[01:01:02] contributing to your savings investments
[01:01:04] or if you're finding that your housing
[01:01:05] and mortgaging is higher than 80 90%
[01:01:10] start with when it comes to future you
[01:01:12] start with what you can whether it's
[01:01:14] saving 2% 3% % start somewhere. You just
[01:01:17] want to build that habit.
[01:01:20] And in terms of spending, should I, you
[01:01:22] mentioned cars earlier and we talked
[01:01:23] about houses briefly. Should I be buying
[01:01:25] a car? Should I be leasing a car?
[01:01:28] A car is, let me just say, it's one of
[01:01:31] the two areas that most people
[01:01:32] overspend.
[01:01:34] And it's because we don't just buy the
[01:01:37] numbers. We buy the emotions of the car.
[01:01:40] How the car might make us feel, how
[01:01:41] we'll look like in the car, the family
[01:01:44] memories we'll create in the car.
[01:01:46] And I know cuz I did this when I um
[01:01:51] got my first job. The very first thing I
[01:01:53] did was upgrade my car. I went into a
[01:01:55] car showroom, found a car that I thought
[01:01:57] I'd look cool in, walked out with the
[01:01:59] car an hour later, drove out with the
[01:02:01] car, and didn't run my numbers, didn't
[01:02:04] check if I could afford the monthly
[01:02:05] payments, and for the next couple of
[01:02:07] months was figuring out how I was going
[01:02:08] to make the rest of my finances meet.
[01:02:11] And car dealerships know this. So they
[01:02:13] will manipulate the monthly payments in
[01:02:15] a way that makes you buy more car than
[01:02:17] you can afford. And if you don't
[01:02:19] understand how the numbers work, this is
[01:02:22] probably one of the
[01:02:24] quickest ways to destroy your chance of
[01:02:27] building real wealth. The way I
[01:02:29] recommend buying a car is to buy
[01:02:31] something that's 3 to 5 years old
[01:02:33] straight.
[01:02:34] And I say 3 to 5 years old because at
[01:02:37] that point it's enough it's depreciated
[01:02:40] enough as someone else's expense and
[01:02:42] won't depreciate as much during the time
[01:02:44] that you have it. But if you are someone
[01:02:47] who is wealthy and you don't mind taking
[01:02:50] that hit on the depreciation or you want
[01:02:52] a nice car every couple of years and you
[01:02:54] want to trade it in and you don't mind
[01:02:56] that fact that it's not the best
[01:02:58] financial choice then lease. That's how
[01:03:00] I think of the buy the lease situation.
[01:03:02] Then you also want to think about how
[01:03:03] much can you reasonably afford as a
[01:03:05] monthly payment when it comes to um the
[01:03:07] proportion of your income that you're
[01:03:09] spending towards it.
[01:03:10] So what do you do you buy new cars or do
[01:03:12] you
[01:03:13] No, I actually at the moment it was more
[01:03:16] economical for me to get a taxi
[01:03:17] everywhere. So I don't have a car.
[01:03:18] So you've run the numbers and thought
[01:03:20] the amount I'm traveling away from home
[01:03:22] makes more sense just to
[01:03:23] get a taxi an Uber every time. Yeah. I'm
[01:03:25] saving on the for me and
[01:03:29] it makes sense for this point in my
[01:03:30] life. It might be in 5 years, 10 years
[01:03:32] time that I want a nicer car and I don't
[01:03:34] want to restrain myself from having it.
[01:03:36] But for now with the numbers, I can use
[01:03:38] that num that amount somewhere else.
[01:03:41] What about other things we spend money
[01:03:42] on? Where are the big sort of traps in
[01:03:44] spending that that we haven't mentioned?
[01:03:46] So we talked about cars, talked about
[01:03:47] houses. What about uh iPhones and iPads
[01:03:52] and technology?
[01:03:53] I think there's traps in spending in
[01:03:55] almost everything that we do that we
[01:03:56] don't even see. going to a grocery shop,
[01:03:59] which is a fundamental living cost for
[01:04:02] everyone. You're fighting against
[01:04:05] marketing to keep your money in your
[01:04:07] pocket. You walk to a shop, a grocery
[01:04:10] store, they have the eggs, the milk, the
[01:04:12] bread right at the back, which makes you
[01:04:14] walk through the the shop to get there.
[01:04:16] They have the premium products eye
[01:04:18] level,
[01:04:19] the sweets for the kids at the kids eye
[01:04:22] level. So these are also areas where you
[01:04:24] don't even realize that you're
[01:04:25] overspending because there's these
[01:04:27] subliminal marketing messages around
[01:04:29] you.
[01:04:29] Mh.
[01:04:30] So that's one area where people spend
[01:04:32] where it's just like spending on the
[01:04:33] necessities but not even realizing that
[01:04:35] there's a way to
[01:04:37] um save there.
[01:04:40] So what you suggest going in going into
[01:04:41] those supermarkets with a shopping list?
[01:04:44] Yeah, I mean that's one way shop going
[01:04:45] into going into the going into the
[01:04:47] supermarkets with shopping list. Also
[01:04:48] checking if you're shopping at the
[01:04:50] cheapest supermarket near you. I mean,
[01:04:52] shopping at M&S and Waitro is different
[01:04:54] to shopping at Audi if that's where you
[01:04:56] want to save your money and you're more
[01:04:57] paycheck to paycheck and you're thinking
[01:04:58] about where where to save your money.
[01:05:00] Other areas where people overspend is
[01:05:04] everything now can be bought as an
[01:05:06] impulse buy. You could buy now pay
[01:05:08] later. There's Apple Pay on your phone.
[01:05:11] There's so many debt financing methods
[01:05:14] that make you pay more. And so just
[01:05:17] understanding
[01:05:19] running this budget, running these
[01:05:21] numbers, understanding what you actually
[01:05:22] have available to spend towards these
[01:05:24] things is a really good way of fighting
[01:05:26] against everything else that is trying
[01:05:28] to take your money away from you.
[01:05:30] What about like iPhones and iPads and
[01:05:32] stuff like that? Do you think people
[01:05:33] should be getting new ones or
[01:05:35] The way I think about this is the law of
[01:05:37] diminishing returns. When you first get
[01:05:39] something, there's a really big impact
[01:05:42] on your happiness. When you first get
[01:05:45] like an iPhone and you don't have an
[01:05:46] iPhone, that's good. That's big. You're
[01:05:48] like walking around your iPhone, this is
[01:05:50] pretty cool. Then with every upgrade,
[01:05:53] that diminishing return starts to
[01:05:56] plateau.
[01:05:56] It's not as exciting. So actually
[01:05:58] thinking about, do I need the next
[01:06:00] upgrade or is that something I could
[01:06:03] pass up on? But always remembering that
[01:06:05] the first time you buy something is
[01:06:06] worth it. The upgrades after that, the
[01:06:08] happiness doesn't increase as much.
[01:06:11] And what about hair, nails,
[01:06:14] dying your hair, and all those kinds of
[01:06:16] things? Do you think people should be
[01:06:18] trying to sacrifice those kinds of
[01:06:19] things as well? Or
[01:06:20] I'm not in this camp of trying to save
[01:06:22] money on everything. I really do believe
[01:06:24] that you should have a percentage that
[01:06:26] you allocate towards the fun things in
[01:06:29] your life and not being restrictive
[01:06:30] about what it is that you love. If it is
[01:06:34] getting your nails done, getting your
[01:06:35] hair done, getting a new bag, go for it.
[01:06:38] Enjoy it. as long as on the other side
[01:06:41] that's not at the opportunity cost of
[01:06:44] you in five years or you in 10 years
[01:06:46] because you talk about this term
[01:06:47] lifestyle inflation.
[01:06:49] Yeah.
[01:06:49] Which I've never heard before. What is
[01:06:50] lifestyle inflation?
[01:06:52] Lifestyle inflation is when as your
[01:06:55] income increases, your spending also
[01:06:58] increases in a way that you think might
[01:07:03] be necessary, but actually they are all
[01:07:09] necessities being hidden away as just
[01:07:11] upgrades and luxuries. It's essentially
[01:07:14] your spending rising at the same place
[01:07:15] that your income is increasing. And what
[01:07:17] you want to do to counteract lifestyle
[01:07:20] inflation is you want to make sure that
[01:07:22] your spending increases. Sure, you want
[01:07:23] to treat yourself. You want to reward
[01:07:25] yourself, but not at the same pace that
[01:07:26] your income increases. You want to make
[01:07:28] sure that the gap between your income
[01:07:30] and your spending is getting wider as
[01:07:33] you earn more money, not narrower.
[01:07:35] What's the best way for someone to track
[01:07:36] their money? Because there's lots of
[01:07:37] figures here. Some people aren't
[01:07:39] mathematically literate.
[01:07:40] Yeah.
[01:07:41] Um, many people don't want to be in
[01:07:43] Excel documents. Are there simple tools
[01:07:45] or an app that I could use to track my
[01:07:48] spending and saving and income?
[01:07:50] So many bank accounts nowadays have
[01:07:52] categorized spending within them
[01:07:54] and it will tell you what you're
[01:07:55] spending and what you're spending on. So
[01:07:57] if you are someone that even me, I don't
[01:08:00] sit every single month and
[01:08:03] track every single transaction, but I do
[01:08:05] have a ballpark figure in my mind based
[01:08:07] on my banking apps about what I'm
[01:08:08] spending and where. And the key isn't,
[01:08:11] oh, should I be allocating this much
[01:08:13] here? I've over spent here. Oh, I spent
[01:08:15] a little bit more on my trip than I
[01:08:17] needed to. The key is, are you saving
[01:08:20] 10% minimum of your salary? Whatever you
[01:08:24] decide to do with everything else,
[01:08:26] that's up to you.
[01:08:27] And when you think about it that way,
[01:08:29] you think of this whole budgeting,
[01:08:31] managing finances is a lot more freeing
[01:08:33] than something that's restricting you.
[01:08:36] If you're someone who doesn't want to
[01:08:37] sit in the spreadsheets, spit in the
[01:08:39] numbers, just think, what am I saving
[01:08:40] and what am I spending? Am I sp saving
[01:08:42] the right percentage? Cool. Doesn't
[01:08:44] matter how I'm allocating the rest.
[01:08:46] That's what I recommend for those
[01:08:47] people.
[01:08:48] Oh, they're like budget trackers that
[01:08:49] are already built that I can use
[01:08:50] because, you know, my bank might tell me
[01:08:51] how much I'm spending, but it doesn't
[01:08:53] necessarily
[01:08:55] doesn't necessarily inform me in real
[01:08:56] time of how much money I have left.
[01:08:58] Yeah. I mean, I have a budget tracker
[01:09:00] which actually tells you in real time.
[01:09:01] It's not connected to your bank
[01:09:03] accounts, but when you put your numbers
[01:09:04] into it, it will tell you what you have
[01:09:06] left to spend for the remaining of the
[01:09:08] month.
[01:09:08] And what is that? Is that an Excel
[01:09:09] document?
[01:09:10] It is an Excel document. Yeah.
[01:09:12] Can I have your Excel document?
[01:09:13] Yeah, sure. I
[01:09:14] I'll link it below so people can use it
[01:09:16] if they want to use it.
[01:09:17] What about um money and love and how
[01:09:20] these two worlds collide? Because I I
[01:09:22] was speaking to Kevin Olri recently on
[01:09:24] the show and he was telling me that one
[01:09:26] of the reasons people end up in divorce
[01:09:27] is because of financial insecurities and
[01:09:30] pain and friction and arguments. Do you
[01:09:33] get a lot of messages from people about
[01:09:34] money, love, joint bank accounts and all
[01:09:36] these kinds of things? I have a lot of
[01:09:38] questions about from people asking
[01:09:41] firstly how to
[01:09:44] bring up the conversation of money and
[01:09:46] secondly how to manage their finances
[01:09:49] with a partner in a way that keeps the
[01:09:52] autonomy but still makes it feel like
[01:09:55] you have a shared life.
[01:09:57] What are those big questions
[01:09:58] when it comes to how to bring up a
[01:10:00] conversation? Yeah, I guess with your
[01:10:01] partner. This is really important
[01:10:03] because the top two reasons why people
[01:10:06] argue or why couples argue is money and
[01:10:09] sex. And when it comes to money, it's
[01:10:12] lack of transparency, lack of openness,
[01:10:16] and lack of shared goals together.
[01:10:21] And that's not to say, yeah, you should
[01:10:24] go on a first date and ask someone what
[01:10:25] their credit score or debt utilization
[01:10:27] is. But it is to say having those
[01:10:31] conversations, asking the right
[01:10:32] questions in a way that can help you
[01:10:35] understand someone else's money beliefs
[01:10:40] in a way that can
[01:10:42] help you create a financial life
[01:10:44] together.
[01:10:45] So, what should I be asking my partner?
[01:10:47] I'm your partner. Okay.
[01:10:48] What do you what do you say to me and
[01:10:49] when do you say it?
[01:10:51] I think there's levels of the questions
[01:10:53] that you could ask someone. Mhm.
[01:10:54] And if you're just getting to know
[01:10:55] someone, you can ask them something
[01:10:58] along the lines of if you found or if
[01:11:02] you won 10,000 tomorrow, how would you
[01:11:05] spend it?
[01:11:06] Lamborghini.
[01:11:07] That will tell you a lot about what they
[01:11:09] value. So then that that automatically
[01:11:11] tells you that they probably value
[01:11:12] status.
[01:11:14] If you say, "Oh, I'll probably save it."
[01:11:16] If I said Lamborghini, I'm going to rent
[01:11:18] a Lamborghini for for two months.
[01:11:19] Yeah.
[01:11:21] What should you then do about that? You
[01:11:24] take that information and you understand
[01:11:26] this is what the person values. Yeah.
[01:11:27] Because money is just a symbol for what
[01:11:29] the person values and if they if they
[01:11:31] want to spend it on a Lamborghini that's
[01:11:33] not to say you should then judge the way
[01:11:35] they're spending but you take that
[01:11:36] information you understand what do you
[01:11:37] want to do with it. Is this
[01:11:40] way of thinking something that you want
[01:11:42] to have a life with?
[01:11:44] Okay.
[01:11:46] Is there is there a good answer to that
[01:11:47] question? M
[01:11:48] I think it comes down to understanding
[01:11:49] because even if someone says I just want
[01:11:51] to save
[01:11:52] you might think okay this is great it's
[01:11:54] stability security but you might be
[01:11:56] someone who wants experiences you want
[01:11:58] to spend on flights to take your friends
[01:12:00] and family away around the world
[01:12:02] so it's just about understanding how
[01:12:04] your money values fit in with their
[01:12:06] money values and are they completely in
[01:12:07] conflict with each other or are they
[01:12:09] actually do they marry up and can you
[01:12:11] see yourselves creating a financial life
[01:12:14] together because if someone's like oh
[01:12:15] I'll spend all my money on
[01:12:19] like status symbols and not save
[01:12:22] anything and you're a saver, that is
[01:12:23] going to be a cause for arguments.
[01:12:25] Yeah. Especially if uh you get bad news
[01:12:28] and things get tight. You know, someone
[01:12:30] loses their job and then when things get
[01:12:33] tight, you're really going to be focused
[01:12:34] on the money or you have kids and you
[01:12:36] know any sort of pressure on the budget.
[01:12:38] Exactly. and like other questions and
[01:12:40] that those kind of questions come down
[01:12:41] further further down the line actually I
[01:12:43] guess as well when it comes to financial
[01:12:45] goal setting but I guess another
[01:12:47] question you could ask someone is and it
[01:12:49] comes back to what we spoke about at the
[01:12:50] start of the podcast is where did your
[01:12:52] beliefs about money come from
[01:12:55] because so much of the way we think
[01:12:56] about money is inherited through what we
[01:12:59] saw our parents do what we saw during
[01:13:01] our upbringings and it has an impact on
[01:13:04] the way we are with money it might be
[01:13:05] that we're an impulse spender as a
[01:13:07] result of it might be that we see debt
[01:13:09] in a certain way. It might be that we're
[01:13:10] really frugal. But what that does is it
[01:13:13] opens up a conversation of empathy and
[01:13:15] compassion rather than judgment. And
[01:13:19] that automatically can lead to more
[01:13:21] conversations about okay, how do you
[01:13:22] view debt? How can we manage our
[01:13:24] finances
[01:13:26] based on your views and my views and how
[01:13:28] can we work together as a whole to make
[01:13:31] this sustainable? And then the the next
[01:13:34] question is when it comes to family and
[01:13:36] kids and how you're going to manage your
[01:13:37] finances there. That's when it comes to
[01:13:39] like the third layer of questions where
[01:13:41] you ask asking someone what does our
[01:13:43] 2year, 5year, 10 year goal look like?
[01:13:45] And if we were to merge our finances
[01:13:47] together, what would that look like?
[01:13:49] Should we merge our finances together?
[01:13:50] Nisha,
[01:13:52] my straight answer to this is no. We
[01:13:56] have very unique individual money
[01:13:59] personalities and habits and we are
[01:14:02] getting married later in life where
[01:14:03] these personalities are really set in
[01:14:05] stone.
[01:14:06] And you know how they say opposites
[01:14:08] attract in a relationship. The same goes
[01:14:11] with money. Savers typically attract
[01:14:13] spenders and spenders typically attract
[01:14:15] savers.
[01:14:16] So if you have a saver saving and then a
[01:14:19] spender who's spending the savings,
[01:14:20] that's going to be a cause for arguments
[01:14:22] regardless of if there's financial
[01:14:23] shortcomings. Mhm.
[01:14:25] So, what I recommend is having a team
[01:14:28] fund and then a Mi fund.
[01:14:32] Team fund is for the grown-up adult
[01:14:35] stuff, the joint expenses, mortgage,
[01:14:39] rent, bills, council tax. And this isn't
[01:14:44] 50/50. You both pay into that
[01:14:46] proportionate of your income. 90% of
[01:14:49] your household income that you're
[01:14:51] making. You pay 90% of the expenses.
[01:14:54] You're bringing in 30% of the household
[01:14:56] income. You're paying for 30% of the
[01:14:57] expenses.
[01:14:59] That's a team fund. And then you have
[01:15:01] the MI fund. And this is for your own
[01:15:03] individual personality to stay alive.
[01:15:04] Your own money habits. No one else can
[01:15:07] see the way you're spending here. If you
[01:15:10] have a match addiction, go for it. If
[01:15:11] you want to buy that nice watch, go for
[01:15:13] it. You can do whatever you want. Spend
[01:15:16] this money however you want. If you want
[01:15:18] to save it, save it. But that way,
[01:15:20] you're creating that
[01:15:22] unity, but also having that autonomy.
[01:15:24] And I think this is really, really
[01:15:25] important for both parties, women and
[01:15:27] men, but specifically for women. They
[01:15:29] want to, you want them to have their
[01:15:31] independent access to their finances.
[01:15:34] And I've seen situations, I've spoken to
[01:15:36] people who have merged their finances,
[01:15:39] and
[01:15:41] it's when the relationship has turned
[01:15:43] sour unsafe. They haven't been able to
[01:15:49] know what to do because they haven't had
[01:15:50] the independent access to their money.
[01:15:52] Do you think people should be getting
[01:15:54] prenups?
[01:15:55] Did you get You're married, aren't you?
[01:15:57] I am. I think everyone has a prenup
[01:16:01] whether you know it or not.
[01:16:06] Prenups, you could either have your
[01:16:10] own customized prenup.
[01:16:12] Mhm. Or you could have what the state is
[01:16:17] telling you as what's going to happen if
[01:16:20] you decide to go your separate ways.
[01:16:23] Depending on where you are, the prenup
[01:16:27] holds different values. So some areas
[01:16:30] might not look beyond what the couple
[01:16:32] agree and they just say, "Okay, this is
[01:16:34] what the couple's agreed. this is how
[01:16:36] the finances are going to be split or
[01:16:40] the assets are going to be split in the
[01:16:42] UK and I'm not a divorce lawyer or
[01:16:45] anything. I don't believe that the
[01:16:46] prenup is fully legally binding.
[01:16:49] Mhm.
[01:16:50] So, it's useful to have in some
[01:16:52] circumstances, but it's the courts will
[01:16:56] still look past it and see what is fair
[01:16:58] as a couple.
[01:16:59] This term passive income is quite a
[01:17:01] popular term.
[01:17:02] What is passive income? The way I see
[01:17:04] passive income, it's money that you do
[01:17:07] not have to work
[01:17:10] or to invest time in to make. And in all
[01:17:16] honesty, I think the word passive income
[01:17:18] gets thrown around a lot and people
[01:17:20] forget that
[01:17:22] the things that you do see that might be
[01:17:25] passive income streams required a lot of
[01:17:28] work upfront to start with. What are
[01:17:32] some passive income ideas that you think
[01:17:33] some people could pursue? Like the the
[01:17:35] average person could potentially pursue
[01:17:37] on top of their their 9 toive job?
[01:17:41] I would go back to the easiest way for
[01:17:43] someone to pursue passive income is
[01:17:45] through investing
[01:17:46] from like the S&P 500 and stuff like
[01:17:47] that.
[01:17:48] That is the easiest way if you want to.
[01:17:50] Everything else and this is how I see
[01:17:52] it. Everything else requires some level
[01:17:54] of time or energy because you could
[01:17:55] increase your income through a couple of
[01:17:57] avenues if that's what you're looking to
[01:17:59] do. You can, like we spoke about, ask
[01:18:02] for a pay rise at work. You can, if
[01:18:04] that's not available to you, set up side
[01:18:06] businesses
[01:18:07] to increase your income. And there's two
[01:18:09] ways to do that. There's the tapand go
[01:18:12] that I like to call it, and it's ways to
[01:18:15] increase your income that you can do
[01:18:17] immediately. This isn't passive. This is
[01:18:20] things like putting a spare room on
[01:18:22] Airbnb or um an dog walking or Ubering.
[01:18:27] They require your time. M
[01:18:29] for money, but they are immediate. The
[01:18:32] downside is there is a cap to how much
[01:18:34] you could earn because it's not leaning
[01:18:36] into your unique advantages, your market
[01:18:39] advantage, your unique selling points.
[01:18:42] The other side is value and skill-based
[01:18:45] income. And this is where you lean into
[01:18:48] your individuality, your unique selling
[01:18:50] point. You tap into your skills and you
[01:18:54] create businesses around that that can
[01:18:56] scale. The downside with that, even if
[01:18:58] it is passive, say if you want to create
[01:19:01] um content and then through that sell
[01:19:04] products which you could then earn
[01:19:05] passively with that kind of income
[01:19:08] stream, there's always it always takes
[01:19:11] longer to make that money. And there's a
[01:19:13] time period where you are putting in
[01:19:15] more time or even more money before you
[01:19:17] start earning that. So when I talk about
[01:19:19] passive income, that's when I say sure,
[01:19:21] there are avenues for passive income,
[01:19:22] but the easiest one that's accessible to
[01:19:24] everyone is investing. Everything else
[01:19:26] does require some upfront time or
[01:19:28] energy.
[01:19:28] Yeah. I was we obviously we were talking
[01:19:31] before we started recording about
[01:19:32] Standtore, which is a company I've
[01:19:34] become a co-owner in, and that business
[01:19:36] allows you to sell digital products
[01:19:37] online. And we did this 30-day challenge
[01:19:39] and I was looking through the results of
[01:19:40] how much money people had made and also
[01:19:42] how much how much of a following they
[01:19:43] had because I think digital products are
[01:19:45] really like interesting entrepreneurial
[01:19:47] opportunity. And there was this one, I
[01:19:49] was going through all of them yesterday
[01:19:51] over in the studio and there was like so
[01:19:52] many people, but there's this one that
[01:19:54] stood in mind because she had a thousand
[01:19:55] followers and she's helping women to get
[01:19:58] control of binge eating and other sort
[01:20:01] of eating disorders by selling like
[01:20:03] digital products and information and
[01:20:05] really like a community. She had like a
[01:20:07] thousand followers or something. And in
[01:20:09] the last 30 days, she's made4 or 5,000
[01:20:12] doing that. She sold like 40 like
[01:20:14] digital products and like basically PDFs
[01:20:16] and stuff like that. I just thought this
[01:20:18] is a massive untapped opportunity for
[01:20:20] the vast majority of people who have
[01:20:21] spent 10 years, 20 years in a career and
[01:20:23] know something, have some kind of
[01:20:25] expertise.
[01:20:26] Yeah. Using what you've learning through
[01:20:27] your day job and turning it into a
[01:20:30] business on the side that can be
[01:20:31] scalable.
[01:20:32] Mhm.
[01:20:33] Not necessarily through creating
[01:20:34] content, which is what I think a lot of
[01:20:35] people think that they need to do. Mhm.
[01:20:37] Yeah.
[01:20:38] I imagine like everybody knows something
[01:20:40] and there's a demand now for people to
[01:20:42] buy that expertise that you know if
[01:20:44] especially if you've been in the working
[01:20:45] world for like a couple of years.
[01:20:47] Yeah. I'd say if you want to figure out
[01:20:49] what it is that that expertise is for
[01:20:51] you cuz sometimes we're sitting on a
[01:20:53] mountain of knowledge but we don't even
[01:20:54] know it until we kind of take a step
[01:20:55] back and then look to see what that
[01:20:57] thing is. Ask your friends what is it
[01:21:00] that you'd come to me for advice on?
[01:21:03] Because I know I have people in my life
[01:21:05] who I go to for advice on specific areas
[01:21:08] or if I want planning for an event, hey,
[01:21:11] what should I do? How should I do this?
[01:21:13] If I need help with Excel, hey, can you
[01:21:15] help me with this formula? If I've got
[01:21:16] back pain,
[01:21:18] just a quick message or WhatsApp to
[01:21:19] someone saying, hey, what can I do in
[01:21:20] this situation? Find out what are people
[01:21:22] coming to you for advice on. Mhm.
[01:21:24] That kind of will give you a signal as
[01:21:26] to what people want to know about you,
[01:21:28] what people want to learn from you, and
[01:21:31] see if there's a way to turn that into
[01:21:32] an income stream.
[01:21:33] I mean, it's very much what you did.
[01:21:35] Yeah, it is exactly what I did. It's
[01:21:37] turning the finance knowledge, which at
[01:21:40] the time my tagline was sharing
[01:21:41] everything I know and I'm learning along
[01:21:43] the way to create a life that I love.
[01:21:46] And it was me kind of doing it as an
[01:21:48] online diary, sharing this is what I'm
[01:21:50] learning, this is what I'm doing. And
[01:21:51] then it ultimately ended up into
[01:21:53] something that I do full-time.
[01:21:56] And that's changed your life in a pretty
[01:21:58] profound way.
[01:21:59] I wouldn't be here if I if I didn't take
[01:22:01] the bet.
[01:22:03] Every single one of you watching this
[01:22:04] right now, has something to offer,
[01:22:06] whether it's knowledge or skills or
[01:22:07] experience. And that means you have
[01:22:09] value. Stand, the platform I co-own, who
[01:22:11] are one of the sponsors of this podcast,
[01:22:13] turns your knowledge into a business
[01:22:15] through one single click. You can sell
[01:22:18] digital products, coaching, communities,
[01:22:19] and you don't need any coding experience
[01:22:21] either. Just the drive to start. This is
[01:22:24] a business I really believe in. And
[01:22:26] already $300 million has been earned by
[01:22:29] creators, coaches, and entrepreneurs
[01:22:30] just like you have the potential to be
[01:22:32] on Stan's store. These are people who
[01:22:33] didn't wait, who heard me saying things
[01:22:35] like this, and instead of
[01:22:36] procrastinating, started building, then
[01:22:38] launched something, and now they're
[01:22:40] getting paid to do it. Stan is
[01:22:41] incredibly simple and incredibly easy,
[01:22:43] and you can link it with a Shopify store
[01:22:45] that you're already using if you want
[01:22:46] to. I'm on it and so is my girlfriend
[01:22:48] and many of my team. So, if you want to
[01:22:49] join, start by launching your own
[01:22:51] business with a free 30-day trial. Visit
[01:22:53] stevenbartlet.stan.store
[01:22:56] and get yours set up within minutes.
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[01:23:46] intuitit.comexpert.
[01:23:48] I'll put that on the screen. That's
[01:23:49] intuitit.com/expert.
[01:23:53] Talk to me about that journey. Was it um
[01:23:55] was it faster than you expected? And was
[01:23:58] it are you in a place that is higher
[01:24:00] than you expected when you started?
[01:24:02] You've done 151 videos on YouTube.
[01:24:04] Yeah. And is it safe to say it's made
[01:24:08] you millions?
[01:24:09] Yeah.
[01:24:11] I would never have thought I was in the
[01:24:14] place that I am now
[01:24:17] through sitting in my spare bedroom and
[01:24:22] creating videos. Monday to Friday I'll
[01:24:24] be going to work glitz and glamour
[01:24:27] meeting clients. There was a kind of
[01:24:29] allure to it. And then the weekends I'll
[01:24:32] be spend spending in my spare bedroom
[01:24:35] googling what's a-roll, what's B-roll,
[01:24:38] how do I do color grading,
[01:24:40] which are all terms in terms of editing
[01:24:42] videos.
[01:24:42] It's all terms of editing videos cuz
[01:24:43] that's what I was doing on my weekends
[01:24:45] and evenings
[01:24:46] while you were still at work.
[01:24:47] Yeah, I quit my day job just over two
[01:24:49] years ago. And so for a very long time,
[01:24:53] this was just a creative outlet for me
[01:24:55] and I loved it. I found so much
[01:24:59] interest in it, but my purpose for it
[01:25:03] really grew as the channel grew. It grew
[01:25:06] very quickly from 1,000 to 50,000 within
[01:25:10] a few days and then 100,000 within a few
[01:25:14] weeks of that. And as the channel grew,
[01:25:18] I saw the comments that were coming in.
[01:25:19] Hey, I've just invested in this for the
[01:25:21] first time because of what you've said
[01:25:23] here or I've just asked for a pay rise
[01:25:26] at work because of this conversation.
[01:25:29] And
[01:25:30] when you see something like that come
[01:25:33] through, there is no amount of money
[01:25:36] that can be made through a day job that
[01:25:37] beats that. There is nothing. What was
[01:25:40] previously external fulfillment for me
[01:25:43] turned into internal fulfillment. So, it
[01:25:47] has been the best thing I've done, hands
[01:25:49] down, and it is the thing that I would
[01:25:52] continue to do, even if I wasn't making
[01:25:53] money from it.
[01:25:55] You made one video seven months ago
[01:25:56] about
[01:25:59] things you stop doing to waste your
[01:26:01] evenings after work. The video is
[01:26:02] titled, "Five things I did to stop
[01:26:03] wasting my evenings after work."
[01:26:05] Yeah.
[01:26:07] Because I had to be really disciplined
[01:26:09] with my time when I uh was working in
[01:26:11] banking.
[01:26:12] So, what is it what is the essence of
[01:26:14] that video? Is it telling people to use
[01:26:16] their their time as an asset more
[01:26:18] effectively? And
[01:26:20] so often we just are living in autopilot
[01:26:22] mode. We don't even think about the time
[01:26:24] that we're using and how we're using it.
[01:26:26] We are just coming home after work and
[01:26:29] turning on the TV and watching Netflix
[01:26:30] and sinking into the couch because we've
[01:26:32] done that the day before and the day
[01:26:33] before and it's comfortable.
[01:26:36] And the essence of that video is to say
[01:26:40] there there's probably more out there.
[01:26:43] If you're sitting there and you're in a
[01:26:45] place where you're thinking, I don't
[01:26:47] really like my job. I don't really like
[01:26:48] what I'm doing. I'm not really happy. I
[01:26:51] want to meet new people, but I'm not
[01:26:53] doing that. Then this video is about
[01:26:56] saying, "Hey,
[01:27:00] come out that autopilot mode that you
[01:27:02] might be in and you have hours maybe on
[01:27:06] the weekend, maybe in the evening that
[01:27:08] you can use to create a better life for
[01:27:10] yourself."
[01:27:11] It's almost like budgeting your time.
[01:27:12] It is budgeting your time. Exactly. That
[01:27:15] thinking about how you can spend each
[01:27:18] hour in a way that brings you closer to
[01:27:22] the version of the life that you want. I
[01:27:24] think about that a lot because
[01:27:26] ultimately our time is the center point
[01:27:28] of our influence. Like it's the thing
[01:27:29] that's going to determine our long-term
[01:27:30] outcomes pretty much more than anything
[01:27:32] else. Whether we spend it reading a book
[01:27:34] that's going to educate us or learn how
[01:27:35] to color grade for YouTube videos like
[01:27:37] you did or whether we spend it, you
[01:27:39] know, watching Love Island.
[01:27:41] Yeah.
[01:27:42] On the TV or something like in the same
[01:27:45] way that that $100 is going to compound
[01:27:46] at 10% a year in the S&P 500, that
[01:27:49] choice is going to compound.
[01:27:51] Like so let's play that out. So instead
[01:27:53] of watching Love Island, I decide to
[01:27:55] read that book you recommended about
[01:27:56] money. And then that means that I make a
[01:27:59] series of different decisions which
[01:28:01] change the trajectory of several areas
[01:28:03] of my life. I maybe stop spending as
[01:28:05] much. I start budgeting a little bit. I
[01:28:06] go and educate myself in a new skill.
[01:28:09] And if you zoom out on that as a graph
[01:28:11] over like 10, 20, 30 years, you're in an
[01:28:13] entirely different position because you
[01:28:14] used one hour differently 30 years ago,
[01:28:17] but you'll like never see the return
[01:28:18] because it's so compounding is so hard
[01:28:21] to see. It's invisible
[01:28:22] in the moment. But
[01:28:23] yeah,
[01:28:24] I really think about this a lot. I I try
[01:28:26] and remind myself on a frequent basis
[01:28:27] that like the actual currency I'm
[01:28:29] spending is these these hours that I
[01:28:30] have
[01:28:31] and how intentional and wellplaced and
[01:28:33] aligned they are to my long-term goals
[01:28:35] is maybe maybe the most important thing.
[01:28:38] And it's the most powerful thing that
[01:28:39] you have.
[01:28:40] Mhm.
[01:28:41] Exactly.
[01:28:41] What about your happiness? What is um
[01:28:43] what makes you happy, Nisha?
[01:28:45] The way I'm living right now, which is
[01:28:47] doing what I'm doing for a living is
[01:28:50] making me extremely happy. And it's the
[01:28:52] happiest I've been since starting a
[01:28:55] career in banking.
[01:28:57] It comes back to finding a meaning in a
[01:29:01] purpose in what you're doing. And to say
[01:29:04] that I make money from
[01:29:07] helping people get better with their
[01:29:09] finances.
[01:29:12] I don't think there there's stuff and
[01:29:14] you can't get much better than that. I
[01:29:16] don't think there's many jobs in life
[01:29:19] that are more rewarding than giving back
[01:29:21] in some way.
[01:29:23] However that looks like for you through
[01:29:26] your own skills, your own
[01:29:30] expertise, your own unique selling
[01:29:32] points.
[01:29:34] I can't imagine a like a better place
[01:29:36] for me myself to be in. And it's taken a
[01:29:40] long time to get to that. But it's been
[01:29:42] good. It's been a it's been a journey,
[01:29:43] but it's it's been a good one.
[01:29:45] AI is this, you know, the the topic of
[01:29:48] the moment because it's just impacting
[01:29:50] everything. It's impacting people's
[01:29:52] ability to get jobs. It's impacting how
[01:29:54] I'm hiring as a employer. It's impacting
[01:29:57] how I do my creative work and even me as
[01:29:59] a podcaster as well. I was wondering if
[01:30:01] you what you're doing, how you're
[01:30:03] thinking about AI.
[01:30:04] I'm seeing more and more people leaning
[01:30:06] into AI to get money tips and money
[01:30:09] advice. Mhm.
[01:30:10] And I think that's great because it's
[01:30:11] everything's at the expertise. If you're
[01:30:13] looking at what was available 20 years
[01:30:15] ago versus what was available 5 years
[01:30:16] ago versus what was available a year ago
[01:30:18] to what is available now, there's so
[01:30:20] much more information that is vastly
[01:30:22] available at your fingertips for you to
[01:30:23] learn financial literacy
[01:30:25] and be prepared for it.
[01:30:27] The thing that I'd always ask people to
[01:30:28] remember is
[01:30:30] don't forget the emotional side of money
[01:30:32] because greed, fear, that all comes into
[01:30:36] how you're managing your finances as
[01:30:38] well.
[01:30:38] Yeah. So, use AI, use it to your
[01:30:41] advantage. I think it's brilliant and I
[01:30:43] think you always need to lean into it.
[01:30:44] Um, but there's a there's the human
[01:30:47] component that can never be taken out of
[01:30:49] the equation, especially when it comes
[01:30:50] to money and finance.
[01:30:52] Could I not just go on like chat GPT and
[01:30:54] ask it to be my personal accountant
[01:30:56] every month and tell it my situation,
[01:30:58] tell it my goals, and then tell it to
[01:30:59] give me advice every every day, week,
[01:31:01] month on what I should be doing. I think
[01:31:04] that would be a great starting point to
[01:31:06] understand what do I need to do if I'm
[01:31:07] absolutely clueless.
[01:31:10] That's not to say cha cha GPT is always
[01:31:12] correct. Um, as you probably know,
[01:31:14] there's some errors in it. So, take it
[01:31:16] with a pinch of salt. But if you're
[01:31:17] starting from scratch, even saying,
[01:31:19] "Hey, this is my income. This is my
[01:31:22] spending. How do you recommend I budget?
[01:31:24] Give me three or four ways to consider
[01:31:26] it."
[01:31:27] Yeah, that would be a a way for you to
[01:31:31] take if that's a way for you to take
[01:31:32] that next step, then I definitely think
[01:31:34] that's a avenue to be explored.
[01:31:36] Jack, you were telling me um the other
[01:31:38] day that you're now using AI a lot for
[01:31:40] financial support and advice.
[01:31:42] Mhm.
[01:31:42] What are you What are you doing? Um, so
[01:31:45] I got like this prompt on on chat GPT
[01:31:48] where I've I've asked it to be the
[01:31:50] world's best financial adviser for me
[01:31:52] and uh I screenshotted all my bank
[01:31:55] statements and I every time I tell
[01:31:57] people this they kind of went because
[01:31:58] it's like a lot a window into your life
[01:32:00] and I don't kind of know the GDPR or
[01:32:02] whatever around it but it's been so
[01:32:04] useful. So, I've screenshotted
[01:32:05] everything on my bank statement, and
[01:32:08] then it tells me how much I spend a
[01:32:09] month, how much I can put into
[01:32:11] investments and stuff. And I also
[01:32:12] screenshotted this investment account I
[01:32:14] had, and it told me that I was
[01:32:15] overpaying on my investment account, and
[01:32:18] that I should switch to another one
[01:32:20] because the fees were better. And then
[01:32:22] it was like, you
[01:32:24] don't have enough in savings, so you
[01:32:26] should stop investing and put your money
[01:32:28] into savings.
[01:32:30] gave me a advice on a savings account to
[01:32:33] put it into with a high interest like 4%
[01:32:35] interest and it's actually been
[01:32:37] gamechanging because it's kind of a base
[01:32:38] knowledge that I wouldn't have had an
[01:32:40] understanding towards and I get very
[01:32:42] excited when I listen to these podcasts
[01:32:44] cuz I sit here and they tell you like
[01:32:46] ones to invest in and I think it was a
[01:32:49] particular guest we had on and she said
[01:32:51] you should invest in this kind of stock
[01:32:53] and I said like oh what do you think
[01:32:54] about this stock and it was just like
[01:32:55] don't be silly you're not this person
[01:32:58] and it's just been really helpful for me
[01:32:59] to kind of understand it's it's um
[01:33:02] advice changes and adjusts.
[01:33:04] Oh, was that Kathy Wood?
[01:33:05] Yeah.
[01:33:05] It was it was it Tesla?
[01:33:07] Yeah.
[01:33:07] Well, it told you to behave. It was like
[01:33:09] behave yourself.
[01:33:10] Cuz I asked it to be brutally honest
[01:33:11] about all the advice it gave me. And I
[01:33:13] was like, Kathy Wood had this advice.
[01:33:15] Tell me tell me should I put in should I
[01:33:18] put all my money into Tesla? And it was
[01:33:20] like, look, you're not Kathy Wood. Like,
[01:33:22] you don't have enough. It's kind of what
[01:33:23] you said about um having emergency
[01:33:25] funds. Yeah. It's like you don't have
[01:33:26] enough in your emergency funds. Top that
[01:33:28] up first. And that's like if you want to
[01:33:30] invest in Tesla, we'll have another pot.
[01:33:32] So the new one I've done trading 212.
[01:33:34] Yeah.
[01:33:34] And you can do pies. So I've got a safe
[01:33:36] one
[01:33:37] and a not so safe one and then a high
[01:33:39] interest account.
[01:33:40] That's really interesting, Jack, that
[01:33:42] that that you've done that. And I think
[01:33:44] that's that just shows the power of AI
[01:33:46] now. And there's two really interesting
[01:33:48] things that I picked up on then. first
[01:33:50] is that it's very tailored based on you
[01:33:54] which with AI it's probably understood
[01:33:58] who you are as a person from the
[01:34:00] information that you fed to it your risk
[01:34:02] profile your amounts the bank statement
[01:34:04] had your savings and from that it
[01:34:07] derived a profile and gave you the
[01:34:09] correct information based on
[01:34:13] your current situation
[01:34:15] and the second thing that probably
[01:34:17] doesn't get mentioned in maybe podcasts
[01:34:22] that you've done so far, Stephen, is the
[01:34:24] the savings, the putting it into a high
[01:34:26] interest savings account. It's a very
[01:34:28] easy basic personal finance tips that
[01:34:31] actually do make a difference when it
[01:34:33] comes to habits, but also it's easy.
[01:34:35] That's passive income for you, but it
[01:34:37] would get missed out on a lot of the
[01:34:38] advice if you're watching a specific
[01:34:40] investing focused YouTube video
[01:34:43] or podcast. So, it just harnesses the
[01:34:47] power of chat GPT. I don't know yet if
[01:34:51] or I don't know if we have any
[01:34:52] information about how much information
[01:34:53] we can actually feed into chat GPT and
[01:34:55] where that goes but it sounds like it's
[01:34:57] just you've given it the underlying
[01:34:58] framework or this is my current
[01:34:59] situation and it's given you the correct
[01:35:02] um initial guidance at least and then
[01:35:04] you've been able to say okay that makes
[01:35:06] sense for me or no I'm not going to
[01:35:08] listen to this.
[01:35:10] Yeah I think the the I keep asking it
[01:35:12] like am I on track and it changes its
[01:35:15] advice. So although it's been really
[01:35:17] good initially, I think I'm now with
[01:35:19] that base knowledge just going to go and
[01:35:21] sort of and everything I've learned on
[01:35:23] these podcasts as well, just kind of go
[01:35:24] and run with it.
[01:35:25] Yeah.
[01:35:25] Yeah. And that's really important thing
[01:35:27] because you know there's there's so much
[01:35:28] information online when it comes to
[01:35:30] money that you don't actually know who
[01:35:32] to listen to and who to get advice from
[01:35:35] and who to trust because you could be
[01:35:38] scrolling through Tik Tok and the first
[01:35:40] video you see is put all your money into
[01:35:42] Tesla or crypto or one asset or you
[01:35:46] could see another one that says, "Oh,
[01:35:47] stop buying lattes so otherwise you'll
[01:35:49] die broke." And then the next video
[01:35:50] might be mine and you might think, "Oh,
[01:35:52] the last two people just told me BS. Why
[01:35:54] should I listen to this person?
[01:35:56] And so finding a person who
[01:36:00] whose principles and philosophy align
[01:36:02] with your way of thinking is a way that
[01:36:04] will keep you motivated and inspired to
[01:36:07] want to keep getting better with
[01:36:09] finances. And so you've probably got
[01:36:11] that information from chat GPT and it
[01:36:14] said to you, hey, based on your profile,
[01:36:16] this is what's important. And you've
[01:36:19] kind of leaned into the leaned into that
[01:36:21] and thought, this is right for me.
[01:36:23] Actually, this makes sense. and you've
[01:36:24] probably actioned it. And so it's it's a
[01:36:27] um fine line between finding someone who
[01:36:28] you resonate with and also understanding
[01:36:30] that their principles align with yours,
[01:36:32] I would say to that.
[01:36:33] And how much do you think about credit
[01:36:34] scores? Because I absolutely butchered
[01:36:35] my credit score before I even realized
[01:36:37] it existed and my credit score was in
[01:36:39] the bin. I I got uh two CCJs, which are
[01:36:42] county court judgments, which is where
[01:36:43] you really up
[01:36:44] because I didn't know a thing about
[01:36:45] money when I was 18, 19 years old, and
[01:36:47] they gave me these credit cards and I
[01:36:49] had overdraft and defaulted and didn't
[01:36:51] pay them back and went to an ATM, put it
[01:36:53] in, it didn't come back out.
[01:36:54] Yeah.
[01:36:55] Um and then I found out that I had
[01:36:56] destroyed my credit rating before I knew
[01:36:57] what it was. And I hear this quite a lot
[01:36:59] from people. They don't understand the
[01:37:00] importance of it or, you know,
[01:37:03] you don't realize the importance of it
[01:37:04] until you're looking to buy something
[01:37:07] big.
[01:37:07] Yeah. because that's what it impacts the
[01:37:09] credit score. It two people can go into
[01:37:12] a car showroom and choose the same car
[01:37:14] and the amount they pay for it will be
[01:37:16] completely different based on the
[01:37:18] history.
[01:37:18] Yeah.
[01:37:19] The credit background and so there are
[01:37:21] it is something that you need to think
[01:37:23] about. It is something that you need to
[01:37:24] make sure you're paying off in time in
[01:37:26] full your credit card for instance. And
[01:37:28] it is definitely one of the main things
[01:37:30] or one of one of the things people
[01:37:32] should always look at and consider. And
[01:37:34] you can check your credit rating online
[01:37:37] for free.
[01:37:39] There are websites that do that and you
[01:37:41] can check it just make sure all of your
[01:37:42] details are correct. If there's any
[01:37:44] anomalies, correct that. But most
[01:37:47] importantly, just make sure and it
[01:37:49] really comes down to are you paying the
[01:37:50] things that are outstanding on time.
[01:37:53] I think most people, especially younger
[01:37:54] people, don't actually realize that they
[01:37:56] have a credit score and that they can
[01:37:57] check it right now for free. And they
[01:37:59] also probably don't realize that things
[01:38:00] like being registered to vote has an
[01:38:02] impact on their credit rating. Cuz I
[01:38:04] remember the first time I logged in to
[01:38:05] check my credit score and I was like
[01:38:07] 45 and it said the reason why one of the
[01:38:10] reasons why it's low is because you
[01:38:11] haven't registered to vote. I was like
[01:38:13] what the hell?
[01:38:13] Yeah. You register to vote that that's
[01:38:16] one of the things even something like
[01:38:17] you could call up your credit card
[01:38:18] company or your uh the company that you
[01:38:21] have a debt at and say hey can you
[01:38:22] increase the amount that I have
[01:38:24] available. What that does is it reduces
[01:38:27] your utilization when you're using debt.
[01:38:29] And by just saying, okay, you have
[01:38:31] instead of utilizing 50% of your credit
[01:38:33] available, you're now using 20%.
[01:38:35] What companies now see is, oh, okay,
[01:38:37] then they're being sensible, they're not
[01:38:40] really relying on this debt on their
[01:38:42] day-to-day living. So, there's a couple
[01:38:44] of things that you can take into
[01:38:46] account, but even if you do, and again,
[01:38:48] people don't realize this, even if you
[01:38:49] do have interest rates because you're
[01:38:52] not paying your debt off in time, you
[01:38:53] can negotiate that. You can call up the
[01:38:55] company and say, "Okay, this is the
[01:38:58] interest rate I'm paying, but this is
[01:39:00] what I have planned. This is how I plan
[01:39:02] to pay off my debt, and I want to do it
[01:39:04] over the next 12, 18 months. Can you
[01:39:07] reduce or can you look at reducing my
[01:39:10] interest rate?"
[01:39:12] I have these personas here. There's
[01:39:13] three of them. And I was wondering,
[01:39:15] there are three different people at
[01:39:16] three different stages of life. When you
[01:39:17] think about the advice you'd give these
[01:39:18] people, does it come back to this
[01:39:20] framework, this 65, 20, 15 framework
[01:39:24] really regardless of what stage they're
[01:39:26] at?
[01:39:26] You know what? Most things in finance do
[01:39:28] come back to that framework, the 65,
[01:39:30] 2015 or even a variation for it. With
[01:39:33] Andy, he's just started his job. He's
[01:39:35] early on in his career. He's making less
[01:39:38] now than he will in 10 years, 20 years
[01:39:40] time. So it may not be that his paycheck
[01:39:42] allows for 65% to go towards his rent
[01:39:45] and his car, which is what he wants
[01:39:47] something new of. It might be that it
[01:39:48] might be 70 or 75%. But the key is,
[01:39:52] especially at this stage, the most
[01:39:53] important thing that he has going for
[01:39:54] him is time. So save, invest early, do
[01:39:58] it recurringly, which is often, and
[01:40:00] harness the power of long-term growth is
[01:40:02] what I'll say to Andy. When it comes to
[01:40:03] the new phone, remember that there is a
[01:40:06] trade-off for every decision you're
[01:40:07] making. If it's not an absolute
[01:40:08] necessity or an urgency, that can be
[01:40:11] spent and the value of that maybe
[01:40:14] thousands today can be worth
[01:40:17] significantly more in 10 years or 20
[01:40:19] years time.
[01:40:19] Mhm.
[01:40:20] So balance that together. Again, if
[01:40:24] there's budget with his after he's put
[01:40:26] down the money for his savings
[01:40:27] investing, if he wants to spend that on
[01:40:28] the fund, then go ahead.
[01:40:30] With him though, do you think his risk
[01:40:31] appetite should be a little bit higher?
[01:40:32] Cuz I when I look at uh Andy here, he
[01:40:35] looks like he's early 20s, maybe late
[01:40:38] teens or something.
[01:40:39] Yeah.
[01:40:39] With him, I think you need to take risk.
[01:40:42] You need to go work at an AI startup
[01:40:45] because he wants to fill that bucket of
[01:40:48] knowledge with like really high
[01:40:49] yielding, relevant skill.
[01:40:52] Yeah.
[01:40:52] So, I don't know. I think of him. I go,
[01:40:54] "Bro, roll the dice. You got nothing to
[01:40:56] lose. You ain't got a mortgage yet. You
[01:40:57] ain't got kids."
[01:40:58] In your 20s, you can play the long-term
[01:41:00] game. Absolutely. Everything feels like
[01:41:02] it's urgent in your 20s. You feel like
[01:41:04] you need the promotion. You feel like
[01:41:05] you need to invest straight away. You
[01:41:06] feel like you need the pay rise
[01:41:07] immediately. But decades over dopamine
[01:41:11] and he's got a long time and the the
[01:41:13] things that he learns now, the things
[01:41:15] that he invests in, the skills and the
[01:41:17] risks that he take, he can bounce back
[01:41:19] from that.
[01:41:20] And even when it comes to investing,
[01:41:21] actually, when you're in your 20s, you
[01:41:23] can be more risk averse because you have
[01:41:25] the upward trend of the market
[01:41:28] that will see you through.
[01:41:30] Mhm. So 20s is the time to take the
[01:41:32] risk, take all the tiny experiments,
[01:41:35] and just be a sponge where you absorb
[01:41:38] everything.
[01:41:39] Yeah, that's what I'll take.
[01:41:41] What about Lisa in the middle, though?
[01:41:42] Lisa is she's got a mortgage, she's got
[01:41:46] an income, and she's got a good amount
[01:41:47] of savings, and she is keen to start
[01:41:51] investing, but she doesn't know where to
[01:41:52] start. And this is where a lot of people
[01:41:56] fall into. They have their savings
[01:41:58] setting aside. Um, and this is she's
[01:42:00] doing really well, someone like in
[01:42:02] Lisa's position. But if anyone listening
[01:42:06] to this is similar to Lisa's position,
[01:42:09] it chances are they're not investing
[01:42:11] because they are scared and fearful of
[01:42:15] what to do and they don't know where to
[01:42:17] start. So Lisa, I would say have your
[01:42:20] emergency fund in place. Pay off any
[01:42:23] debt. It doesn't look like you have any
[01:42:24] debt. If your mortgage isn't over 8%,
[01:42:27] you can make more from instead of paying
[01:42:30] down your debt, you can make more
[01:42:31] investing. So, you're great to start
[01:42:33] wanting to invest. And I would say keep
[01:42:35] it simple. Do it for the long term. Keep
[01:42:38] it simple. You want to if especially if
[01:42:40] you're just starting out, your emotions
[01:42:42] and the behavior is going to play a key
[01:42:44] part in your investing. So, 100% of your
[01:42:48] portfolio, stick to index funds and
[01:42:50] target date to retirement funds at the
[01:42:51] moment. And then if you are ready as you
[01:42:55] get more senior, you haven't increased
[01:42:57] your income, then you can dip into other
[01:42:59] assets should you want to.
[01:43:00] And we've got Matt over there who's a
[01:43:02] single parent earning about So Lisa was
[01:43:04] earning roughly 140,000 a year. Yeah.
[01:43:07] Matt's earning60,000 a year.
[01:43:10] Over over 50% of his income is going
[01:43:11] towards his rent. He has credit card
[01:43:13] debt of 1,500. The first thing I would
[01:43:15] say looking at someone in Matt's
[01:43:17] position is if you've already saved for
[01:43:19] your peace of mind fund, you the first
[01:43:21] thing you want to do is pay off that
[01:43:23] high interest rate debt. It is like
[01:43:26] running with weights on your ankles. You
[01:43:27] want to take them off so you can start
[01:43:30] moving on to the next path of your
[01:43:32] financial journey. So focus on paying
[01:43:34] off that credit card debt. He wants to
[01:43:36] increase income income sources but has
[01:43:37] little time outside of work and being a
[01:43:39] dad. So that says to me that he probably
[01:43:43] doesn't have time or energy to spend on
[01:43:47] trying to see if something's going to
[01:43:48] work and see what comes out of it. He
[01:43:50] wants to um make an immediate source of
[01:43:54] income. So the easiest way to increase
[01:43:57] your income is getting an increase in
[01:43:59] your current job,
[01:44:01] getting a pay rise, and if not switching
[01:44:04] companies to see if you get a pay rise
[01:44:05] that way. When I'm looking at my own
[01:44:06] career, when I stayed at the same
[01:44:08] organization, it was the increase was
[01:44:10] between
[01:44:11] 3% 5% sometimes a bit higher if I got
[01:44:14] promoted to 10%. And then when I
[01:44:16] switched companies, it was always
[01:44:17] between 20 and 30% when I moved. And I
[01:44:20] know that is I I was in a lucky place
[01:44:22] where I had the movement to get those
[01:44:24] pay jumps and to get that salary
[01:44:26] increase. And not everyone's in that
[01:44:28] position. Um but if you have or if
[01:44:30] you're in an industry which there is a
[01:44:33] there is more path to earn more then I
[01:44:35] would definitely say first and foremost
[01:44:36] increase your income. You don't have to
[01:44:38] put in any more time towards it given
[01:44:40] you also have uh children to look after
[01:44:42] as well.
[01:44:44] If you've
[01:44:46] stopped, if you've already exhausted
[01:44:48] those two avenues, then the next thing
[01:44:50] I'll say if you want an immediate income
[01:44:52] is picking up income streams that
[01:44:54] unfortunately might be tied to your
[01:44:56] time, but they will have an immediate
[01:44:58] impact on your income because that's
[01:45:00] probably what you might be looking to do
[01:45:02] because your rent and I'm guessing your
[01:45:04] other living expenses are taking up a
[01:45:05] lot of your take-home pay. So, you want
[01:45:06] to find out that extra buffer to start
[01:45:08] paying towards the debt that you have.
[01:45:10] things like
[01:45:11] so this could be things like uh selling
[01:45:13] secondhand stuff online um selling
[01:45:16] products online renting out a spare room
[01:45:18] if you have that on Airbnb um things
[01:45:21] that you don't actually need to put
[01:45:22] capital in to make money straight away
[01:45:25] from
[01:45:25] are there things you never spend money
[01:45:27] on
[01:45:28] at this point in my life me specifically
[01:45:30] I don't think I bought a designer
[01:45:32] item in two years which is a lot for me
[01:45:36] because I was dripped out in the
[01:45:37] designer wear beforehand I've found
[01:45:40] that my validation in life has come
[01:45:44] through by work and through internally
[01:45:46] and it took me on a journey to do that
[01:45:48] and I just don't believe in
[01:45:52] the premium prices that you pay for
[01:45:55] promoting another product or a brand
[01:45:58] if it's for utility. If you're buying a
[01:46:01] branded item or a designer for utility,
[01:46:03] i.e. this design or this brand
[01:46:07] works better, then go for it. But if
[01:46:10] you're doing it purely to show, then for
[01:46:13] me at this point in my life, it's just a
[01:46:15] no-go. I could spend that money in other
[01:46:17] ways that brings me a lot more um
[01:46:19] fulfillment in different ways.
[01:46:21] Do you spend on fast fashion instead of
[01:46:25] the luxury high-end stuff?
[01:46:26] Oh, that's a good question. No, I don't
[01:46:28] spend on fast fashion unless it's a
[01:46:29] really urgent last minute buy and I
[01:46:31] haven't found anything else. But I tend
[01:46:34] to have a capsule wardrobe which means I
[01:46:36] could play around. I spend
[01:46:37] a good amount on quality pieces
[01:46:39] and that's important to me. Quality
[01:46:41] pieces I could use time and time again
[01:46:43] and can switch in and out of. And I I
[01:46:45] think for me when it comes to clothing,
[01:46:48] it's more just okay
[01:46:50] with work. It's what can remove the
[01:46:52] decision- making for me.
[01:46:53] What about books?
[01:46:54] I think that is one area that I love
[01:46:57] spending money on. There's an infinite
[01:46:59] return. There really is. And actually
[01:47:00] some of the breakthroughs I've had have
[01:47:03] come from the books I've read. Even the
[01:47:06] first book I read which was Rich Dad
[01:47:08] Poor Dad that just that concept of
[01:47:10] understanding assets versus liabilities.
[01:47:14] Just knowing that from an early age can
[01:47:16] start changing your thinking in a way
[01:47:18] that you wouldn't be able to having a
[01:47:20] normal conversation because the people
[01:47:22] you hang around with, the people who you
[01:47:24] spend time with, they have a massive
[01:47:26] impact on where you end up. And I think
[01:47:32] it's easy to say just hang out with
[01:47:34] another crew or just hang out with a new
[01:47:36] crowd that pushes you. But actually for
[01:47:40] a lot of people, they don't have access
[01:47:42] to that. And that's where books,
[01:47:46] podcasts, YouTube videos, it almost has
[01:47:50] that averaging effect of the five people
[01:47:54] around you.
[01:47:55] It mirrors that effect. So even if you
[01:47:58] don't have access to the people who you
[01:48:00] want to learn from by reading their
[01:48:02] book, watching the videos, listening to
[01:48:04] the podcasts, you can still gain that
[01:48:06] knowledge and it's almost equivalent to
[01:48:08] you sitting with them for an hour.
[01:48:09] So you're saying people should
[01:48:10] definitely subscribe?
[01:48:12] Always
[01:48:14] subliminal messaging.
[01:48:15] You wear black a lot like me. Is that an
[01:48:18] intentional choice? It started off
[01:48:22] because when I was doing my YouTube
[01:48:23] channel alongside working in banking, I
[01:48:26] had to find every way possible to
[01:48:29] eliminate any sort of decision- making
[01:48:32] that will stop me from doing the thing.
[01:48:34] Yeah.
[01:48:35] And so it was a way for me to create a
[01:48:37] system, not rely on motivation. So there
[01:48:40] was about four outfits of black that I'd
[01:48:41] always change from and it made my life a
[01:48:44] lot easier. Now this has carried
[01:48:47] through. It's been a lot of just it just
[01:48:49] makes me think about things less. But
[01:48:51] no, I do also wear other colors just as
[01:48:53] much. It just happens to be that black
[01:48:55] is 60% of my wardrobe.
[01:48:57] Nisha, we have a closing tradition on
[01:48:58] this podcast where the last guest leaves
[01:48:59] a question for the next not knowing who
[01:49:01] they're leaving it for. And the question
[01:49:03] that's been left for you is who is the
[01:49:06] one person that was slash is responsible
[01:49:10] for the person that you are today and
[01:49:12] the reason why you are sitting here?
[01:49:15] It goes back to the person who when I
[01:49:18] started my YouTube videos
[01:49:21] and I got a lot of noise and a lot of
[01:49:24] people saying, "Oh, like what is she
[01:49:27] doing? Does this make sense?" The person
[01:49:29] who really kept me going was my dad.
[01:49:34] Yeah. He saw my videos and he said to
[01:49:37] me, "What you're doing is so good for
[01:49:39] the world. Your education is going to
[01:49:42] help so many people. don't stop.
[01:49:46] And I didn't.
[01:49:49] So,
[01:49:51] thanks, Dad, for believing me when there
[01:49:55] was like nine or 10 views on my videos.
[01:50:03] Wasn't expecting that.
[01:50:11] It's crazy how someone just saying a few
[01:50:14] words at the right moment can be so sort
[01:50:16] of pivotal to your like trajectory.
[01:50:21] Does he know how much he inspired all of
[01:50:24] this?
[01:50:26] I don't think he knows the extent to it.
[01:50:28] I sent him like a message maybe a few
[01:50:31] months ago
[01:50:33] um telling him like, "Hey, remember that
[01:50:36] day when I showed you my YouTube video
[01:50:38] and it was just me in my dining room and
[01:50:41] I couldn't even speak properly and it
[01:50:43] was set up in a weird lighting and it
[01:50:45] was getting nine or 10 views and you
[01:50:47] said, "Don't stop. Keep passing this
[01:50:49] education down." And I said to him, I
[01:50:52] did send that message to him and said,
[01:50:54] "I'm so glad you did that because I've
[01:50:55] continued because of that." And we're
[01:50:57] not really wordy with each other, but I
[01:51:00] think he heard it. I don't know if he
[01:51:02] knows the extent, but I think he'll be
[01:51:05] happy to know the extent of it now.
[01:51:09] You got the tissues, Jack.
[01:51:13] Thank you.
[01:51:15] Thanks. Yeah, I think we're good.
[01:51:20] Who is the one person that was is
[01:51:22] responsible for the person that you are
[01:51:23] today and the reason why you're sitting
[01:51:24] here now? And that is dad.
[01:51:27] That is dad.
[01:51:29] He must be pretty shocked to some
[01:51:32] degree. Like no one could have imagined
[01:51:33] and
[01:51:35] your channel would be this big and you'd
[01:51:37] be reaching this many people.
[01:51:38] He didn't expect it. I didn't expect it.
[01:51:41] I think he
[01:51:44] believed that
[01:51:46] for him he believed
[01:51:50] that a job was security for us. I'm one
[01:51:52] of three girls. I'm the middle sister.
[01:51:54] And all he wanted was for us to get a
[01:51:57] good job and be secure. And so whilst
[01:51:59] this is beyond I could ever expect, when
[01:52:00] I quit and I quit taking a big pay cut,
[01:52:04] that was hard for him.
[01:52:05] How big was the pay cut?
[01:52:06] 84%.
[01:52:08] So you were on
[01:52:10] 220.
[01:52:12] Yeah.
[01:52:12] Which is about $300,000.
[01:52:14] Yeah. And I was just about to get a a
[01:52:17] six figure bon. So I left before a six
[01:52:19] figure bonus. Just before the biggest
[01:52:21] bonus of my career. I negotiated it. I
[01:52:25] spent months negotiating it. And two
[01:52:27] months before that six figure bonus
[01:52:30] landed, I resigned.
[01:52:32] Why didn't you just wait?
[01:52:35] There's always going to be a carrot
[01:52:37] waved in front of your face. And that
[01:52:40] carrot's going to come in different
[01:52:41] shapes, sizes, forms,
[01:52:44] and it's going to be a distraction to
[01:52:47] keep you on the default path.
[01:52:51] The carrot for me was that bonus
[01:52:56] telling me, "Hey, just wait. Just wait
[01:52:59] another two months and then wait another
[01:53:00] year and another year and 5 years and 10
[01:53:03] years and just wait till you're 60." And
[01:53:05] I had this once in a-lifetime
[01:53:08] opportunity
[01:53:10] that was just exploding on the side.
[01:53:13] And with it came all these people
[01:53:16] saying, "Hey, I'm so thankful for all of
[01:53:19] this." And I was getting DMs from people
[01:53:22] just pouring their life story to me.
[01:53:25] And there is no monetary value that
[01:53:27] beats that. There really isn't. And so I
[01:53:30] like took a step back. I ran my numbers.
[01:53:33] It was 84% pay cut. I thought it still
[01:53:36] covers my mortgage. It covers my like
[01:53:38] basic living expenses.
[01:53:41] The biggest risk isn't quitting my job.
[01:53:43] The biggest risk is letting this once in
[01:53:46] a lifetime opportunity pass me by and
[01:53:48] never knowing where that path could have
[01:53:50] taken me. That was the biggest risk. And
[01:53:53] the hardest part was actually just
[01:53:56] letting go of the identity that I
[01:53:58] wrapped myself in.
[01:54:02] Yeah.
[01:54:03] What was identity?
[01:54:08] I
[01:54:10] my title was my identity. I'd worked in
[01:54:13] banking for nine years and I could sit
[01:54:15] at a dinner table, cling on to my title,
[01:54:19] say I worked in finance and feel
[01:54:20] externally validated.
[01:54:23] And so that move to quit at the time
[01:54:27] that I did from a career, a corporate
[01:54:29] career which I've worked so hard for,
[01:54:33] it's
[01:54:35] like it's what I wanted for so long. and
[01:54:38] then just let go of that and say
[01:54:43] I'm letting go of that identity. It took
[01:54:45] so much reframing in my mind and so much
[01:54:48] mind work and so many things I had to do
[01:54:51] to make myself feel comfortable to say
[01:54:53] okay I'm not letting anything else
[01:54:54] dictate the way my life goes from here.
[01:54:57] It was a lot of work. And I would say if
[01:55:00] anyone else is listening to this
[01:55:02] thinking,
[01:55:03] I'm in a place where
[01:55:06] I'm unhappy. I really want to do
[01:55:09] something new, but I'm scared and I
[01:55:10] don't know what other people are going
[01:55:11] to say and
[01:55:13] what's society going to say if I quit or
[01:55:16] take this other path.
[01:55:18] I could say the things that I did that
[01:55:20] really helped me.
[01:55:23] And the first is
[01:55:27] spend more time on
[01:55:30] the path that you want to go down than
[01:55:33] around the people that are telling you
[01:55:35] otherwise.
[01:55:37] Because so often we're half in half out.
[01:55:41] We're interested in something but we're
[01:55:43] not obsessed with it. And when you're
[01:55:45] interested, you just kind of just do
[01:55:46] whatever needs to be done. But when
[01:55:49] you're obsessed,
[01:55:51] you're going to do whatever it takes.
[01:55:53] And this applies to anything to
[01:55:56] changing your career to being a parent
[01:55:58] to being an entrepreneur.
[01:56:01] Become obsessed with that thing that you
[01:56:02] want to do cuz that will give you the
[01:56:04] courage to make the hard decisions when
[01:56:06] they come.
[01:56:08] The second thing,
[01:56:10] and I think I made a video on this too,
[01:56:12] I I wrote down on my phone on on an
[01:56:15] Apple notes,
[01:56:17] and I wrote down all the things people
[01:56:19] were saying to me, the external noise.
[01:56:22] And underneath it, I had what my inner
[01:56:24] voice was saying.
[01:56:27] And it's really easy when your inner
[01:56:30] voice isn't loud for it to be diluted by
[01:56:32] what everyone else around you is saying.
[01:56:36] that at that point if anyone said
[01:56:37] anything or if anyone is saying anything
[01:56:39] to plant seeds of doubt in your head
[01:56:41] look at what your inner voice is saying
[01:56:43] read it repeat it let that be louder
[01:56:45] than anything else that is happening
[01:56:48] around you
[01:56:50] and what was the external voices saying
[01:56:53] well when my channel started picking up
[01:56:56] it was
[01:56:58] being shared into um WhatsApp groups of
[01:57:02] people I know and friends of friends and
[01:57:04] friends and friends and it was just,
[01:57:07] you know, when you're just starting
[01:57:08] something new and someone is breaking
[01:57:09] barriers, it's just trying to
[01:57:11] pull them back.
[01:57:11] Pull them back a little bit. This isn't
[01:57:13] you.
[01:57:14] Mocking them subtly.
[01:57:15] Yeah. Why are you saying your numbers
[01:57:18] online? What are you doing? Lol. And
[01:57:22] you've just got to remember the reason
[01:57:23] why I'm saying my numbers online. That
[01:57:25] is hard to do. It's hard to sit there
[01:57:27] and say this is my salary over 9 years.
[01:57:30] It's hard to do that. But I I remind
[01:57:33] myself it's to be transparent. It's to
[01:57:37] help people make the decisions that help
[01:57:40] them with money.
[01:57:44] It's the same reason why I came back and
[01:57:46] said, "I want to say this because it's
[01:57:48] the transparency."
[01:57:50] And I think the third thing
[01:57:53] I think everyone should like kind of
[01:57:56] take into account when
[01:57:58] they're making um Hold on, give me a
[01:58:01] second.
[01:58:02] Where's where's this emotion coming
[01:58:04] from? It's very deep inside you.
[01:58:11] There was a lot of pain
[01:58:14] during my career
[01:58:18] and I felt really trapped at times but I
[01:58:20] don't know how to escape
[01:58:22] but also cuz I know a lot of people are
[01:58:24] probably hearing this and thinking I'm
[01:58:25] also in that place
[01:58:29] and so I really feel like my purpose is
[01:58:32] to help as many people to go from
[01:58:35] feeling trapped to
[01:58:38] freeing themselves and using money to do
[01:58:40] that. And so I guess that's why I'm
[01:58:42] feeling like
[01:58:44] it's bringing it all out because this is
[01:58:45] just alignment for me.
[01:58:50] And it's just like bringing back the
[01:58:52] memories of what where I was at that
[01:58:54] time and what I had to do to
[01:58:58] like just take that cup because at the
[01:59:01] end of the day, no one else has to deal
[01:59:02] with your
[01:59:05] with the decisions you make in life more
[01:59:07] than you. They have to deal with maybe
[01:59:10] the consequence of a moment. But only
[01:59:11] you have to deal with the consequences
[01:59:13] of all the decisions that you make in
[01:59:14] life. Only you have to go to a job and
[01:59:18] whe a company that you don't want to
[01:59:19] work in. Only you have to live that day.
[01:59:23] Only you have to
[01:59:26] be with a partner if that's the reason
[01:59:29] you chose. If if you chose because
[01:59:31] everyone else is saying it, only you
[01:59:33] have to do that. Only you have to grow
[01:59:36] old with the memories of what could
[01:59:38] have, should have, would have been
[01:59:43] and live with the what if. And that's
[01:59:45] why I I guess there's so many people
[01:59:47] that I know and that probably listening
[01:59:49] to this that know deep down there's
[01:59:50] something more out there. And I just
[01:59:54] want to if anything give them the
[01:59:55] courage to say
[01:59:58] take that risk. It's usually a
[02:00:01] calculated risk. And if it's to do with
[02:00:03] your money and finances, spend some
[02:00:06] time, make sure you have your emergency
[02:00:09] fund or whatever it is that's needed,
[02:00:11] but align your money to match your life
[02:00:14] decisions
[02:00:16] cuz it can really be freeing.
[02:00:20] Have you spoken much about the pain?
[02:00:24] Why?
[02:00:26] It's my content is personal finance.
[02:00:28] It's not really about me. It's about
[02:00:30] personal finance. I'm just trying to
[02:00:32] educate people. Um, yeah,
[02:00:36] I didn't
[02:00:39] I probably wouldn't have spoken about it
[02:00:40] here if you didn't ask me the question
[02:00:42] about
[02:00:43] where it's come from. It's taking me
[02:00:45] back to the start. And sometimes you go
[02:00:47] into a journey and you get tunnel vision
[02:00:48] and you forget why you did it and you
[02:00:50] forget why you started. And
[02:00:58] you forget all the people that helped
[02:00:59] you on that journey. And there was a lot
[02:01:01] of people that helped me and at
[02:01:02] different points.
[02:01:04] My partner, my mom, my dad, my sisters,
[02:01:06] like they've all helped me at different
[02:01:08] points. And the people I learned from,
[02:01:12] my mentors, like it's just all
[02:01:17] a reminder as to
[02:01:21] how it started and how different things
[02:01:24] have lined up.
[02:01:26] What was the hardest day when you look
[02:01:28] back through that transition that you've
[02:01:29] been on? What was was there a hardest
[02:01:30] day, a hardest moment?
[02:01:32] The hardest day was that morning when I
[02:01:37] emailed my manager to get on a Zoom call
[02:01:40] and I said, "I'm turning down that
[02:01:43] bonus.
[02:01:44] I'm leaving banking." That was the
[02:01:46] hardest.
[02:01:48] If I was a fly on the wall,
[02:01:50] yeah.
[02:01:50] What would I have seen that day?
[02:01:53] You'd see
[02:01:55] a girl in her late 20s
[02:01:59] taking or saying no to a path that could
[02:02:03] make money and that was very certain and
[02:02:06] that followed the default path
[02:02:09] to go to a path where she wasn't sure if
[02:02:11] she was going to make money. She didn't
[02:02:13] know how it would turn out, but she did
[02:02:15] it because it meant so much to her and
[02:02:17] she did it because she saw the impact
[02:02:19] she was having.
[02:02:21] And in her 10 years or nine years in
[02:02:23] banking, she's never felt like she's had
[02:02:26] that impact on individuals. It's been on
[02:02:28] for corporates or for sovereigns. It's
[02:02:30] never been for
[02:02:32] specific people or day-to-day people who
[02:02:34] need it.
[02:02:36] And she did it and she didn't know where
[02:02:39] it was going to lead her.
[02:02:42] Is there an element of
[02:02:45] being a first or second generation
[02:02:47] immigrant that ties into this? Because I
[02:02:49] hear so often when people come up to me
[02:02:51] in the in the gym and you know their
[02:02:53] their mother's African like my mother's
[02:02:54] African and and I was born in Africa and
[02:02:57] so my mother's Nigerian and put
[02:02:58] tremendous weight on you know going to
[02:03:01] university and becoming a success in the
[02:03:03] eyes of the public and then I hear a lot
[02:03:05] from sort of more Asian
[02:03:07] first generation immigrants or second
[02:03:08] generation immigrants that they feel you
[02:03:10] know the doctor lawyer can't remember
[02:03:12] what the third one was doctor lawyer
[02:03:13] something
[02:03:14] accountant I don't know
[02:03:15] maybe finance
[02:03:16] do you think that plays a role
[02:03:18] into why you go down a certain path.
[02:03:20] Yeah. In in terms of like if you're at
[02:03:22] home and you're you have first
[02:03:24] generation immigrant parents and they
[02:03:26] see success as like one of three jobs,
[02:03:29] it becomes harder to break out. Like
[02:03:32] breaking out is basically makes you a
[02:03:34] failure at home.
[02:03:35] I think there's two things. I think it's
[02:03:37] definitely that's a big part of it. but
[02:03:39] also seeing what your parents did and
[02:03:42] how hard they worked to get you onto a
[02:03:44] path of security, which is a job, and
[02:03:46] then saying, "Yeah, you worked really
[02:03:48] hard and I'm throwing that away."
[02:03:51] There's a lot of guilt that comes with
[02:03:52] that.
[02:03:53] Mhm.
[02:03:54] So, I think it's I think it's both. I
[02:03:56] think it's
[02:03:57] Did you feel that guilt?
[02:03:58] I did at the time. Massive guilt.
[02:04:02] Massive guilt. I couldn't tell anyone
[02:04:04] that I was quitting until after I quit.
[02:04:06] The only person who knew was my then
[02:04:08] boyfriend, now husband.
[02:04:09] Your parents didn't know.
[02:04:10] They didn't know till after I quit. I
[02:04:12] couldn't tell them.
[02:04:14] Why?
[02:04:15] Cuz I knew that if they said something,
[02:04:18] I might have just changed my decision.
[02:04:21] And you think they would have said
[02:04:22] something?
[02:04:24] I don't know. But when I told them, they
[02:04:27] supported it because they knew it was
[02:04:29] also too late. I think they might have
[02:04:32] just said, "Hey, this is secure." Well,
[02:04:35] maybe there's something in that. Maybe
[02:04:36] in those big decisions where, as you
[02:04:38] say, you're going to deal with the
[02:04:39] consequences yourself, both the upside
[02:04:41] and the regret. Maybe consensus and
[02:04:44] focus groups aren't needed in such a
[02:04:46] moment when we should be tuning into the
[02:04:48] voice inside. Because yeah, external
[02:04:51] voices will just complicate those
[02:04:52] things. But I also think, you know, I
[02:04:55] say this to people a lot when they come
[02:04:56] up to me and they say, "I'm in this
[02:04:58] situation. I'm in finance. I'm working
[02:04:59] in the city. I've got this dream of
[02:05:01] being a violin player in Peru."
[02:05:03] The first question I often ask them is
[02:05:04] like, could you go back if you're wrong?
[02:05:07] Because if you could go back if you're
[02:05:08] wrong, then that's what we call a I
[02:05:11] think it's a type one decision in
[02:05:12] business, which is a door that is
[02:05:14] reversible. And so many people spend one
[02:05:17] year, 3 years, 5 years, 10 years, 20
[02:05:19] years of their life stood in front of a
[02:05:22] type one decision, a door that they
[02:05:24] could walk back through if they're
[02:05:25] wrong. And actually, it's just like such
[02:05:27] a crazy shame not to make those type one
[02:05:29] decisions at speed
[02:05:30] if if it's reversible. And it's so crazy
[02:05:32] because like 95% of the time when I ask
[02:05:34] someone that question, they respond.
[02:05:36] They said, "Yeah, I could go back to
[02:05:37] investment banking if I was wrong."
[02:05:39] Yeah.
[02:05:39] I'm like, "Go do the violin thing then.
[02:05:40] Go up, fail. It might work out,
[02:05:42] whatever, but come back here if you're
[02:05:44] if you can." So
[02:05:46] yeah, you won't have that pain of what
[02:05:47] if anymore.
[02:05:48] The what if. Yeah. And I I remember
[02:05:49] reading that study from Bon Bronny
[02:05:51] Bronnyware.
[02:05:52] Yeah.
[02:05:53] Palative nurse who interviewed people on
[02:05:54] their deathbeds. And it was um I think
[02:05:56] the number one regret is not living the
[02:05:59] life that I think I could have lived.
[02:06:01] And I've always remembered that. I
[02:06:02] thought, okay, so if it's reversible,
[02:06:04] then maybe go through that door as fast
[02:06:05] as you can. Nisha, thank you so much for
[02:06:08] doing what you do. It's really um it's
[02:06:09] really incredibly important. And I think
[02:06:10] the very fact that your channel has been
[02:06:12] so resonant and so far reaching speaks
[02:06:14] to an unmet demand in people's
[02:06:16] understanding of finance, but also
[02:06:18] having a voice that they can very much
[02:06:20] relate to that um simplifies, makes
[02:06:23] things complicated things accessible,
[02:06:24] but also just a human being that is um
[02:06:28] relatable in many forms. your intentions
[02:06:30] of why you're doing what you're doing
[02:06:32] are so abundantly clear and I could see
[02:06:34] that in the emotion. I could see that
[02:06:36] you really really do care about other
[02:06:38] people and actually your decision to
[02:06:39] take a leap from the world of investment
[02:06:40] banking which was much more secure and
[02:06:42] high status in many people's eyes at
[02:06:44] that moment in time was one also
[02:06:46] inspired by the fact that you want to do
[02:06:49] good for the world and that is exactly
[02:06:50] what you're doing. So I highly recommend
[02:06:52] everybody goes and checks out your
[02:06:53] channel. and I'm going to link it below
[02:06:54] um if they want to continue this
[02:06:56] conversation because you make very
[02:06:57] actionable, concise, clear videos on all
[02:07:00] the subjects we've talked about, but
[02:07:01] many more. Um and also to go follow you
[02:07:03] on social media, which I'll also link
[02:07:05] everywhere else. Um but I just want to
[02:07:06] thank you for your time and hope
[02:07:08] hopefully we can talk again soon when
[02:07:10] you've uh written a book and the the
[02:07:11] book comes out.
[02:07:12] Thank you so much, Stephen. It's been a
[02:07:14] pleasure.
[02:07:16] This has always blown my mind a little
[02:07:17] bit. 53% of you that listen to this show
[02:07:20] regularly haven't yet subscribed to the
[02:07:22] show. So, could I ask you for a favor?
[02:07:24] If you like the show and you like what
[02:07:25] we do here and you want to support us,
[02:07:27] the free simple way that you can do just
[02:07:28] that is by hitting the subscribe button.
[02:07:30] And my commitment to you is if you do
[02:07:32] that, then I'll do everything in my
[02:07:33] power, me and my team, to make sure that
[02:07:35] this show is better for you every single
[02:07:37] week. We'll listen to your feedback.
[02:07:39] We'll find the guests that you want me
[02:07:40] to speak to and we'll continue to do
[02:07:42] what we do. Thank you so much. We
[02:07:44] launched these conversation cards and
[02:07:45] they sold out. And we launched them
[02:07:46] again and they sold out again. We
[02:07:47] launched them again and they sold out
[02:07:48] again because people love playing these
[02:07:50] with colleagues at work, with friends at
[02:07:52] home, and also with family. And we've
[02:07:54] also got a big audience that use them as
[02:07:55] journal prompts. Every single time a
[02:07:58] guest comes on the diary of a CEO, they
[02:08:00] leave a question for the next guest in
[02:08:02] the diary. And I've sat here with some
[02:08:03] of the most incredible people in the
[02:08:04] world. And they've left all of these
[02:08:06] questions in the diary. And I've ranked
[02:08:09] them from one to three in terms of the
[02:08:11] depth. One being a starter question. And
[02:08:14] level three, if you look on the back
[02:08:16] here, this is a level three, becomes a
[02:08:18] much deeper question that builds even
[02:08:20] more connection. If you turn the cards
[02:08:22] over and you scan that QR code, you can
[02:08:25] see who answered the card and watch the
[02:08:28] video of them answering it in real time.
[02:08:30] So, if you would like to get your hands
[02:08:31] on some of these conversation cards, go
[02:08:33] to the diary.com or look at the link in
[02:08:35] the description below.
[02:08:40] Heat. Heat. N.
[02:08:42] [Music]