# Mock Interview Berenice | 19 May 2026

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4SjNNd-6o0
Translation: es

[00:16] See?
  ¿Ves?

[00:21] No.
  No.

[00:35] See,
  Mira,

[00:51] that's like
  eso es como

[01:05] Okay.
  Okay.

[01:06] Okay.
  Okay.

[01:10] Okay. So, um, welcome to this interview, B.
  Okay. Entonces, eh, bienvenido a esta entrevista, B.

[01:13] Okay. So, um, welcome to this interview, B.
  Okay. Entonces, eh, bienvenido a esta entrevista, B.

[01:15] Today, the idea is for me to understand your previous experience up
  Hoy, la idea es que yo entienda tu experiencia previa hasta

[01:17] understand your previous experience up until now.
  Entiendo tu experiencia previa hasta ahora.

[01:19] I see you're based in Chile, until now.
  Veo que resides en Chile, hasta ahora.

[01:19] I see you're based in Chile, in Santiago.
  Veo que resides en Chile, en Santiago.

[01:22] Is that correct?
  ¿Es correcto?

[01:22] Yes.
  Sí.

[01:22] Uh hi Patrick uh thank you for this opportunity of uh participating on this recruitment process and yes I'm from Venezuela but I have been living in Chile for more than 10 years.
  Eh hola Patrick, eh gracias por esta oportunidad de eh participar en este proceso de reclutamiento y sí, soy de Venezuela pero he estado viviendo en Chile por más de 10 años.

[01:37] Um yeah interesting.
  Eh sí, interesante.

[01:39] So yes Ben if you can please guide me through your previous experience.
  Entonces sí Ben, si puedes por favor guiarme a través de tu experiencia previa.

[01:43] I see you have a lot of experience.
  Veo que tienes mucha experiencia.

[01:45] You've had different roles.
  Has tenido diferentes roles.

[01:46] Super interesting.
  Súper interesante.

[01:46] So I would just like to understand what brought you here today.
  Así que me gustaría entender qué te trajo aquí hoy.

[01:50] What's been your experience up until now?
  ¿Cuál ha sido tu experiencia hasta ahora?

[01:52] Which studies do you have?
  ¿Qué estudios tienes?

[01:53] if you can just give me some context please.
  si puedes darme un poco de contexto por favor.

[01:54] Yeah,
  Sí,

[01:57] sure.
  claro.

[01:57] Well, I'm a full tech engineer with more than 10 years of experience.
  Bueno, soy un ingeniero full stack con más de 10 años de experiencia.

[02:02] Um, currently I'm working at grouppasia that is an educational tech and my main responsibility there is to uh maintain and make possible the evolution of the lead management platform.
  Eh, actualmente estoy trabajando en grouppasia, que es una tecnología educativa y mi principal responsabilidad allí es eh mantener y hacer posible la evolución de la plataforma de gestión de leads.

[02:15] uh the current tech stack that I have been using there
  eh la pila tecnológica actual que he estado usando allí

[02:17] tech stack that I have been using there is ReactJS, Nex.js, Prisma and I have been also interacting with AWS as a as a cloud provider.
  la pila tecnológica que he estado usando allí es ReactJS, Nex.js, Prisma y también he estado interactuando con AWS como proveedor de la nube.

[02:28] Um previous to that I spent eight years working at FORS where I had the opportunity to participate on uh several uh high impact projects.
  Um, antes de eso, pasé ocho años trabajando en FORS, donde tuve la oportunidad de participar en varios proyectos de alto impacto.

[02:40] uh for example uh I was uh in a couple of times at Lata Maryland.
  por ejemplo, estuve un par de veces en Lata, Maryland.

[02:47] The first the first opportunity was making a migration uh from a legacy system uh to uh a new application with uh a new tech stack that actually is my my current text stack.
  La primera oportunidad fue hacer una migración de un sistema heredado a una nueva aplicación con una nueva pila tecnológica que, de hecho, es mi pila de texto actual.

[03:00] the one that I have been using for the last six years that that is the same one that uh that I'm using now at at Spasia company.
  la que he estado usando durante los últimos seis años, esa es la misma que estoy usando ahora en la empresa Spasia.

[03:10] Um and there uh the main challenge was this migrations from the legacy system to uh an application that was on premise and one of the the the
  Y allí, el principal desafío fueron estas migraciones del sistema heredado a una aplicación que estaba en las instalaciones y uno de los

[03:21] was on premise and one of the the the purposes that they had latan at this.
  estaba en las instalaciones y uno de los propósitos que tenían en Latan era este.

[03:23] purposes that they had latan at this point was to migrate this Google at Google cloud platform and also to uh.
  los propósitos que tenían en Latan en este punto era migrar esto a Google, a la plataforma de Google Cloud y también a uh.

[03:32] uh pass the PCI certification uh PCI compliance certification.
  uh pasar la certificación PCI, uh la certificación de cumplimiento PCI.

[03:37] uh PCI compliance certification. and everything was possible.
  uh certificación de cumplimiento PCI. y todo fue posible.

[03:41] Uh that was an amazing uh project because also was the first time where I uh start um handling uh KPIs on a dashboard and.
  Uh ese fue un proyecto increíble uh porque también fue la primera vez que uh comencé a uh manejar uh KPIs en un dashboard y.

[03:52] making observability uh focus on on the business outcomes and this this kind of approaches that I consider are very important for every product and every company.
  haciendo que la observabilidad uh se centre en los resultados del negocio y este tipo de enfoques que considero son muy importantes para cada producto y cada empresa.

[04:02] And the the second opportunity at Latan was as a deops engineer.
  Y la segunda oportunidad en Latan fue como ingeniero de DevOps.

[04:09] That was the the first experience uh under this role.
  Esa fue la primera experiencia uh bajo este rol.

[04:11] And um uh uh there I started gaining practical experience uh building infrastructure components uh uh.
  Y um uh uh allí comencé a ganar experiencia práctica uh construyendo componentes de infraestructura uh uh.

[04:23] infrastructure components uh uh infrastructure as a code and there I
  componentes de infraestructura uh uh infraestructura como código y allí

[04:27] infrastructure as a code and there I built uh uh several environments like
  infraestructura como código y allí construí uh uh varios entornos como

[04:31] built uh uh several environments like development, testing, staging and
  construí uh uh varios entornos como desarrollo, pruebas, staging y

[04:33] development, testing, staging and production for every product team
  desarrollo, pruebas, staging y producción para cada equipo de producto

[04:35] production for every product team because uh the main idea there was that
  producción para cada equipo de producto porque uh la idea principal allí era que

[04:39] because uh the main idea there was that LATAM was creating a new platform to
  porque uh la idea principal allí era que LATAM estaba creando una nueva plataforma para

[04:42] LATAM was creating a new platform to handle build the the tracking tools uh
  LATAM estaba creando una nueva plataforma para manejar construir las las herramientas de seguimiento uh

[04:47] handle build the the tracking tools uh for for the uh airplanes and yeah until
  manejar construir las las herramientas de seguimiento uh para para los uh aviones y sí hasta

[04:52] for for the uh airplanes and yeah until that point the the was a very process a
  para para los uh aviones y sí hasta ese punto el el era un proceso muy un

[04:56] that point the the was a very process a very manual process and there this this
  ese punto el el era un proceso muy un proceso muy manual y allí esto esto

[04:59] very manual process and there this this was opportunity to to make this digital
  proceso muy manual y allí esto esto fue una oportunidad para hacer esta transformación digital

[05:02] was opportunity to to make this digital transformation and also here um I
  fue una oportunidad para hacer esta transformación digital y también aquí um yo

[05:06] transformation and also here um I participated in a creation of the
  transformación y también aquí um yo participé en la creación de la

[05:09] participated in a creation of the observability strategy with graphana on
  participé en la creación de la estrategia de observabilidad con Grafana en

[05:12] observability strategy with graphana on Prometheus for every product team uh for
  estrategia de observabilidad con Grafana en Prometheus para cada equipo de producto uh para

[05:15] Prometheus for every product team uh for this platform and that's that was very
  Prometheus para cada equipo de producto uh para esta plataforma y eso eso fue muy

[05:18] this platform and that's that was very interesting as well and previous to this
  esta plataforma y eso eso fue muy interesante también y antes de esto

[05:21] interesting as well and previous to this one I participated in different
  interesante también y antes de esto participé en diferentes

[05:24] One I participated in different industries like uh telecommunication.
  Participé en diferentes industrias como telecomunicaciones.

[05:26] Industries like uh telecommunication industry more specifically the company.
  Industrias como la industria de las telecomunicaciones, más específicamente la empresa.

[05:29] Industry more specifically the company was Telus where I was Telus where I was for the first time feature lead in a project initiative.
  La empresa fue Telus, donde por primera vez fui líder de características en una iniciativa de proyecto.

[05:36] So I follow up the project initiative so I follow up the the whole initiative in that moment that was a campaign focused on back to school.
  Así que seguí la iniciativa del proyecto, seguí toda la iniciativa en ese momento, que fue una campaña centrada en el regreso a clases.

[05:44] And the idea was to change uh all the prices uh for this uh for that week.
  Y la idea era cambiar todos los precios para esa semana.

[05:52] Uh it's like a Black Friday or this kind of of uh events.
  Es como un Black Friday o este tipo de eventos.

[05:56] Um and yeah, what was very challenging for me because was uh uh the the fact of having conversations with the stakeholders.
  Y sí, lo que fue muy desafiante para mí fue el hecho de tener conversaciones con los interesados.

[06:07] Then translating all these ideas to the development team and finally uh slicing all the tickets.
  Luego traducir todas estas ideas al equipo de desarrollo y finalmente dividir todas las tareas.

[06:17] Following up all the blockers that we could have from the technical point of view and from the uh uh team.
  Hacer seguimiento de todos los bloqueos que pudiéramos tener desde el punto de vista técnico y del equipo.

[06:24] view and from the uh uh team interactions and And yeah, I I can continue but I think it's a lot.
  vista y de las interacciones del equipo y Y sí, puedo continuar pero creo que es mucho.

[06:33] Okay. Feedback. Feedback.
  De acuerdo. Comentarios. Comentarios.

[06:36] So here my advice is first of all you need to tell your experience as a story.
  Así que aquí mi consejo es, en primer lugar, que necesitas contar tu experiencia como una historia.

[06:38] Why? Because like the CB already tells me what I want to know.
  ¿Por qué? Porque como el CV ya me dice lo que quiero saber.

[06:41] Like the CB already tells me.
  Como el CV ya me dice.

[06:43] Okay. Yes, I was a feature lead.
  De acuerdo. Sí, fui líder de una característica.

[06:45] Okay. Yes, I also worked on a migration.
  De acuerdo. Sí, también trabajé en una migración.

[06:47] Yeah, I know that from your CV.
  Sí, eso lo sé por tu CV.

[06:49] But what I want is a story.
  Pero lo que quiero es una historia.

[06:50] So what I want is you to tell me why.
  Así que lo que quiero es que me digas por qué.

[06:53] Why did for example Yes.
  ¿Por qué, por ejemplo, sí?

[06:56] So I initially listen let me do it like let's do a role play.
  Así que inicialmente escucho, déjame hacerlo como si hiciéramos un juego de roles.

[06:59] Yes.
  Sí.

[07:01] So I'm Ben.
  Así que soy Ben.

[07:03] I'm originally from Venezuela.
  Soy originario de Venezuela.

[07:05] Uh actually I I've always loved computers.
  Eh, en realidad, siempre me han encantado las computadoras.

[07:07] So I back in the day even though I was a woman and it was rare for me to study computer science.
  Así que en aquel entonces, aunque era mujer y era raro para mí estudiar informática.

[07:09] I did because I was super interested in tech and like I thought yeah it was like the the opportunities were endless.
  Lo hice porque estaba súper interesada en la tecnología y pensé que las oportunidades eran infinitas.

[07:11] I was super interested in building things just with a laptop.
  Estaba súper interesada en construir cosas solo con un portátil.

[07:13] Right.
  Correcto.

[07:15] So that's why I I studied computer science.
  Así que por eso estudié informática.

[07:17] I got the opportunity to start working as a
  Tuve la oportunidad de empezar a trabajar como un

[07:25] opportunity to start working as a consultant for a very a consulting consultant for a very a consulting company called Deoit.
  oportunidad de empezar a trabajar como consultor para una consultora llamada Deoit.

[07:31] company called Deoit. I was able to start working in Deoid in Chile as a Java developer.
  empresa llamada Deoit. Pude empezar a trabajar en Deoid en Chile como desarrollador Java.

[07:35] Java developer. That's where I learned how to build APIs, how to work with software, how to work as part being part of a of an agile team.
  desarrollador Java. Ahí aprendí a construir APIs, a trabajar con software, a formar parte de un equipo ágil.

[07:42] of a of an agile team. Then I got the opportunity to join thought works which is which is a very big engineering company in Latam.
  de un equipo ágil. Luego tuve la oportunidad de unirme a Thoughtworks, que es una empresa de ingeniería muy grande en Latam.

[07:49] company in Latam. There I had like multiple roles.
  empresa en Latam. Allí tuve varios roles.

[07:51] Initially I worked as a fully stack developer in a few projects for LATAM airlines which was a very big client for thought works and then I changed roles.
  Inicialmente trabajé como desarrollador full stack en algunos proyectos para LATAM airlines, que fue un cliente muy grande para Thoughtworks, y luego cambié de rol.

[08:00] changed roles. I kept on uh working in fully stack development.
  cambié de rol. Seguí trabajando en desarrollo full stack.

[08:02] I also worked as a feature lead for multiple projects that I can explain later on if you want.
  También trabajé como líder de funcionalidades para múltiples proyectos que puedo explicar más adelante si quieren.

[08:07] that I can explain later on if you want. I also worked as a DevOps engineer and as a front-end developer also the reason that the reason why I changed roles and I didn't stay as a developer is because I thought that if I worked in DevOps and front end I would have like a broader picture of how building projects and building software means like what
  que puedo explicar más adelante si quieren. También trabajé como ingeniero DevOps y como desarrollador front-end. La razón por la que cambié de rol y no me quedé como desarrollador fue porque pensé que si trabajaba en DevOps y front-end tendría una visión más amplia de lo que significa construir proyectos y software.

[08:25] building software means like what actually takes to build a piece of software.
  construir software significa cómo se construye realmente una pieza de software.

[08:27] how to lead a feature.
  cómo liderar una característica.

[08:29] how to implement the software I just enjoy the whole life cycle.
  cómo implementar el software, simplemente disfruto de todo el ciclo de vida.

[08:30] I love building software so yeah that's pretty much what I've done about till today.
  me encanta construir software, así que sí, eso es prácticamente lo que he hecho hasta hoy.

[08:35] thank you.
  gracias.

[08:38] Yeah, that's the change that I need.
  Sí, ese es el cambio que necesito.

[08:41] Actually, everything that you just said is tr is the truth.
  De hecho, todo lo que acabas de decir es la verdad.

[08:43] I'm a fullstack developer and thinking about that I was just chasing all these opportunities about being deops and this all these roles that I could uh.
  Soy un desarrollador fullstack y pensando en eso, simplemente estaba persiguiendo todas estas oportunidades de ser deops y todos estos roles que podría eh.

[08:54] yeah and one one piece one piece of advice before the interview before the interview.
  sí, y una una pieza una pieza de consejo antes de la entrevista antes de la entrevista.

[08:56] the first the minutes before you put some music on and you play like a music that makes you very happy cheerful and you jump and you dance if you need to.
  los primeros minutos antes de poner algo de música y poner música que te haga muy feliz, alegre y salta y baila si es necesario.

[09:05] Yeah.
  Sí.

[09:08] Yeah.
  Sí.

[09:10] Trust me.
  Confía en mí.

[09:10] Trust me.
  Confía en mí.

[09:12] Yeah.
  Sí.

[09:13] Just like release the tension.
  Solo como que libera la tensión.

[09:14] Release the tension.
  Libera la tensión.

[09:16] like talk to a friend.
  como hablar con un amigo.

[09:19] Trust me.
  Confía en mí.

[09:22] Yeah.
  Sí.

[09:24] Yeah.
  Sí.

[09:25] Okay.
  Okay.

[09:27] And so then, yeah, introduction.
  Y entonces, sí, introducción.

[09:29] Don't go deep.
  No profundices.

[09:30] Like don't talk about the details.
  Como no hables de los detalles.

[09:32] Don't worry about that.
  No te preocupes por eso.

[09:33] Just tell your story.
  Solo cuenta tu historia.

[09:26] worry about that.
  No te preocupes por eso.

[09:26] Just tell your story.
  Solo cuenta tu historia.

[09:28] Listen, I come from Venezuela.
  Escucha, vengo de Venezuela.

[09:28] I'm super passionate.
  Soy súper apasionada.

[09:31] I love tech.
  Me encanta la tecnología.

[09:31] Even though I'm a woman, I've always enjoyed it.
  Aunque soy mujer, siempre lo he disfrutado.

[09:33] Like I love building the whole life cycle.
  Me gusta construir todo el ciclo de vida.

[09:35] I love DevOps.
  Me encanta DevOps.

[09:35] I love front end.
  Me encanta el front end.

[09:37] I truly enjoy I I this is my first experience in a product company which is Groupia.
  Realmente disfruto, esta es mi primera experiencia en una empresa de productos que es Groupia.

[09:39] It's a Spanish company, but my dream has always been to go to Europe.
  Es una empresa española, pero mi sueño siempre ha sido ir a Europa.

[09:44] Listen, I love London.
  Escucha, amo Londres.

[09:46] Every time I I hear about London.
  Cada vez que oigo hablar de Londres.

[09:48] I feel so passionate like I I I've always um felt um drawn by Europe,
  Me siento tan apasionada que siempre me he sentido atraída por Europa,

[09:56] I've always been interested.
  Siempre he estado interesada.

[09:58] So, this is why I'm really really interested in this position.
  Así que, esta es la razón por la que estoy muy, muy interesada en este puesto.

[09:59] I've been referred directly by Jordi because um a mentor of mine told me about this position.
  He sido referida directamente por Jordi porque un mentor mío me habló de este puesto.

[10:05] And the first time she told me about it, I was like, "Yes, no question.
  Y la primera vez que me habló de ello, le dije: "Sí, sin duda.

[10:09] I'm I'm really interested in interviewing here and that's
  Estoy, estoy realmente interesada en entrevistar aquí y eso es

[10:10] >> I have a question there Patrick because uh sometime a long time ago someone told me that the if if I said like I'm very interesting on on being relocated to another country it's like don't don't uh say that at the
  >> Tengo una pregunta ahí Patrick porque hace mucho tiempo alguien me dijo que si decía que estaba muy interesada en ser reubicada a otro país, era como que no dijera eso en el

[10:29] it's like don't don't uh say that at the beginning because it's like this this.
  es como no no uh digas eso al principio porque es como este este.

[10:31] beginning because it's like this this shouldn't be like the the main.
  principio porque es como este este no debería ser como el el principal.

[10:33] shouldn't be like the the main target for you is like the focus is on your on the company.
  no debería ser como el el principal objetivo para ti es como el enfoque está en tu en la empresa.

[10:37] target for you is like the focus is on your on the company. What do you think about that?
  objetivo para ti es como el enfoque está en tu en la empresa. ¿Qué piensas de eso?

[10:39] Because the truth is yes I want to to move to one.
  Porque la verdad es que sí quiero mudarme a uno.

[10:42] want to to move to one. Yeah. Yeah. No. So okay good point. So you start Exactly.
  quiero mudarme a uno. Sí. Sí. No. Entonces, está bien, buen punto. Entonces empiezas Exactamente.

[10:45] you start Exactly. They haven't asked you why, right?
  empiezas Exactamente. No te han preguntado por qué, ¿verdad?

[10:47] They haven't asked you why, right? So you start telling your story.
  No te han preguntado por qué, ¿verdad? Entonces empiezas a contar tu historia.

[10:49] So you start telling your story. You say why you love tech, what you've done up until now.
  Entonces empiezas a contar tu historia. Dices por qué te gusta la tecnología, lo que has hecho hasta ahora.

[10:51] You say why you love tech, what you've done up until now. You worked in multiple projects with multiple clients with multiple tech.
  Dices por qué te gusta la tecnología, lo que has hecho hasta ahora. Trabajaste en múltiples proyectos con múltiples clientes con múltiples tecnologías.

[10:52] worked in multiple projects with multiple clients with multiple tech stacks or you're an actual engineer.
  trabajaste en múltiples proyectos con múltiples clientes con múltiples pilas tecnológicas o eres un ingeniero real.

[10:54] multiple clients with multiple tech stacks or you're an actual engineer. You're not a builder. You're an engineer.
  múltiples clientes con múltiples pilas tecnológicas o eres un ingeniero real. No eres un constructor. Eres un ingeniero.

[10:55] stacks or you're an actual engineer. You're not a builder. You're an engineer. So that's what you say.
  pilas tecnológicas o eres un ingeniero real. No eres un constructor. Eres un ingeniero. Entonces eso es lo que dices.

[10:57] You're not a builder. You're an engineer. So that's what you say. And then they're going to ask you at the end.
  No eres un constructor. Eres un ingeniero. Entonces eso es lo que dices. Y luego te van a preguntar al final.

[10:58] engineer. So that's what you say. And then they're going to ask you at the end of the interview they're going to ask you.
  ingeniero. Entonces eso es lo que dices. Y luego te van a preguntar al final de la entrevista te van a preguntar.

[11:00] then they're going to ask you at the end of the interview they're going to ask you why are you interested in this position?
  entonces te van a preguntar al final de la entrevista te van a preguntar por qué estás interesado en este puesto?

[11:02] of the interview they're going to ask you why are you interested in this position? Why London? Why flock? Like why?
  de la entrevista te van a preguntar por qué estás interesado en este puesto? ¿Por qué Londres? ¿Por qué Flock? ¿Por qué?

[11:03] you why are you interested in this position? Why London? Why flock? Like why? And that's when you say, "Listen, I'm going to be transparent.
  tú por qué estás interesado en este puesto? ¿Por qué Londres? ¿Por qué Flock? ¿Por qué? Y ahí es cuando dices, "Escucha, voy a ser transparente.

[11:05] position? Why London? Why flock? Like why? And that's when you say, "Listen, I'm going to be transparent. I've always wanted to live in London.
  puesto? ¿Por qué Londres? ¿Por qué Flock? ¿Por qué? Y ahí es cuando dices, "Escucha, voy a ser transparente. Siempre he querido vivir en Londres.

[11:07] I'm going to be transparent. I've always wanted to live in London. It's a dream of mine.
  voy a ser transparente. Siempre he querido vivir en Londres. Es un sueño mío.

[11:09] It's a dream of mine. It's my favorite. It's like to me being a Latin American, to me, London is like the dream.
  Es un sueño mío. Es mi favorito. Es como para mí, siendo latinoamericano, para mí, Londres es como el sueño.

[11:11] It's my favorite. It's like to me being a Latin American, to me, London is like the dream. It's like for you Europeans, New York, right?
  Es mi favorito. Es como para mí, siendo latinoamericano, para mí, Londres es como el sueño. Es como para ustedes los europeos, Nueva York, ¿verdad?

[11:12] to me being a Latin American, to me, London is like the dream. It's like for you Europeans, New York, right? Like for me is London.
  para mí, siendo latinoamericano, para mí, Londres es como el sueño. Es como para ustedes los europeos, Nueva York, ¿verdad? Como para mí es Londres.

[11:14] is like for you Europeans, New York, right? Like for me is London. So, I'm super interested and also I'm particularly interested in Flock.
  es como para ustedes los europeos, Nueva York, ¿verdad? Como para mí es Londres. Entonces, estoy súper interesado y además estoy particularmente interesado en Flock.

[11:17] is London. So, I'm super interested and also I'm particularly interested in Flock because of the stage that the you can say the stage of the company.
  es Londres. Entonces, estoy súper interesado y además estoy particularmente interesado en Flock por la etapa que se puede decir la etapa de la empresa.

[11:19] So, I'm super interested and also I'm particularly interested in Flock because of the stage that the you can say the stage of the company. I know
  Entonces, estoy súper interesado y además estoy particularmente interesado en Flock por la etapa que se puede decir la etapa de la empresa. Sé

[11:29] Can say the stage of the company.
  Puedo decir la etapa de la empresa.

[11:31] I know you're hiring actively and I really want you're hiring actively and I really want to be part of a product company also.
  Sé que están contratando activamente y realmente quiero quiero ser parte de una empresa de productos también.

[11:33] to be part of a product company also.
  ser parte de una empresa de productos también.

[11:34] It's international.
  Es internacional.

[11:34] So I'm super interested as well and I particularly interested as well and I particularly enjoy what's the niche um is it insurance
  Así que estoy súper interesada también y particularmente disfruto ¿cuál es el nicho um es seguro

[11:36] enjoy what's the niche um is it insurance
  disfruto ¿cuál es el nicho um es seguro

[11:40] insurance >> insurance fleet uh it's about insurance
  seguro >> seguro de flota uh se trata de seguro

[11:44] >>> insurance fleet uh it's about insurance fleet that the same thing guess that
  >>> seguro de flota uh se trata de seguro de flota que lo mismo supongo que

[11:47] fleet that the same thing guess that they are focused on insurance fleet and
  flota que lo mismo supongo que están enfocados en seguro de flota y

[11:50] they are focused on insurance fleet and the idea for them is like uh they don't
  están enfocados en seguro de flota y la idea para ellos es como uh no quieren

[11:53] the idea for them is like uh they don't want the people purchase the insurance
  la idea para ellos es como uh no quieren que la gente compre el seguro

[11:55] want the people purchase the insurance just because it's required but also
  quieren que la gente compre el seguro solo porque es requerido sino también

[11:57] just because it's required but also because they want the people love the
  solo porque es requerido sino también porque quieren que a la gente le encante

[12:00] because they want the people love the product because they feel safer.
  porque quieren que a la gente le encante el producto porque se sienten más seguros.

[12:02] product because they feel safer.
  producto porque se sienten más seguros.

[12:03] Actually
  De hecho

[12:05] I was investigating about >> minimize vehicle interested
  estaba investigando sobre >> minimizar vehículo interesado

[12:07] >>> minimize vehicle interested >> okay downtime okay so you can say listen
  >>> minimizar vehículo interesado >> de acuerdo tiempo de inactividad de acuerdo así que puedes decir escucha

[12:10] >>> okay downtime okay so you can say listen even though I don't have experience in
  >>> de acuerdo tiempo de inactividad de acuerdo así que puedes decir escucha aunque no tengo experiencia en

[12:11] even though I don't have experience in this niche I worked for airlines before
  aunque no tengo experiencia en este nicho trabajé para aerolíneas antes

[12:14] this niche I worked for airlines before so I kind of know some bits about the
  este nicho trabajé para aerolíneas antes así que sé algunas cosas sobre la

[12:16] so I kind of know some bits about the transport industry I have to be and you
  así que sé algunas cosas sobre la industria del transporte tengo que ser y tú

[12:20] transport industry I have to be and you can even be transparent that say listen
  industria del transporte tengo que ser y puedes ser incluso transparente al decir escucha

[12:22] can even be transparent that say listen I just what I like the most is ah wait
  puedes ser incluso transparente al decir escucha lo que más me gusta es ah espera

[12:24] I just what I like the most is ah wait wait wait this is important they told me
  lo que más me gusta es ah espera espera espera esto es importante me dijeron

[12:26] wait wait this is important they told me they have an engineering blog and
  espera espera esto es importante me dijeron que tienen un blog de ingeniería y

[12:28] they have an engineering blog and they're trying to grow the community so
  tienen un blog de ingeniería y están tratando de hacer crecer la comunidad así que

[12:30] They're trying to grow the community so you can say you can mention that you can.
  Están tratando de hacer crecer la comunidad, así que puedes decir que puedes mencionar que puedes.

[12:33] You can say you can mention that you can mention that you read the blog the.
  Puedes decir que puedes mencionar que puedes mencionar que lees el blog el.

[12:35] Mention that you read the blog the engineering blog and that you actually.
  Menciona que lees el blog el blog de ingeniería y que tú realmente.

[12:38] Engineering blog and that you actually or maybe I have it but I haven't yet.
  Blog de ingeniería y que tú realmente o tal vez lo tengo pero aún no.

[12:41] Or maybe I have it but I haven't yet I think I sent it to you um I look for it.
  O tal vez lo tengo pero aún no lo he enviado, creo que te lo envié, um, lo busco.

[12:45] You can say you can say I actually read the website and I I read that you.
  Puedes decir que puedes decir, de hecho, leí el sitio web y leí que tú.

[12:47] Read the website and I I read that you have an engineering blog and I felt.
  Leí el sitio web y leí que tienes un blog de ingeniería y me sentí.

[12:49] Interested about it because what I want.
  Interesado en ello porque lo que quiero.

[12:51] Is not only to work in like a product based company but also to to use.
  No es solo trabajar en una empresa de productos, sino también usar.

[12:54] Is not only to work in like a product based company but also to to use engineering in good engineering.
  No es solo trabajar en una empresa de productos, sino también usar la ingeniería en buenas prácticas de ingeniería.

[12:56] Engineering in good engineering practices and because I checked your.
  Ingeniería en buenas prácticas de ingeniería y porque revisé tu.

[12:59] Practices and because I checked your blog I see that you you do something like that.
  Prácticas y porque revisé tu blog, veo que haces algo así.

[13:01] Blog I see that you you do something like that.
  Blog, veo que haces algo así.

[13:03] Like that.
  Así.

[13:06] Yeah, this is.
  Sí, esto es.

[13:08] Yeah, this is actually they have a lot of material in their invite.
  Sí, en realidad tienen mucho material en su invitación.

[13:08] Actually they have a lot of material in their invite.
  En realidad tienen mucho material en su invitación.

[13:11] Their invite.
  Su invitación.

[13:12] Yeah.
  Sí.

[13:14] Yeah.
  Sí.

[13:15] There we go.
  Ahí lo tienes.

[13:17] And and there I was checking their mission but I couldn't find this but.
  Y allí estaba revisando su misión pero no pude encontrar esto pero.

[13:19] Mission but I couldn't find this but okay amazing.
  Misión pero no pude encontrar esto pero, está bien, increíble.

[13:20] Okay amazing.
  Está bien, increíble.

[13:22] Yeah. So you can say that you are interested in London in a product company and in the blog they also.
  Sí. Así que puedes decir que estás interesado en Londres en una empresa de productos y en el blog también.

[13:24] Interested in London in a product company and in the blog they also mentioned that they work with AI powered workflow.
  Interesado en Londres en una empresa de productos y en el blog también mencionaron que trabajan con flujos de trabajo impulsados por IA.

[13:27] Mentioned that they work with AI powered workflow. So you can say I'm interested.
  Mencionaron que trabajan con flujos de trabajo impulsados por IA. Así que puedes decir que estoy interesado.

[13:30] So you can say I'm interested.
  Así que puedes decir que estoy interesado.

[13:31] workflow. So you can say I'm interested in working with AI.
  Flujo de trabajo. Así que puedes decir que estoy interesado en trabajar con IA.

[13:33] I'm actually in working with AI.
  En realidad estoy trabajando con IA.

[13:36] I'm actually interested in like uh growing my skills there to actually contribute in that space.
  En realidad estoy interesado en, eh, desarrollar mis habilidades allí para contribuir en ese espacio.

[13:39] You don't need to say because you know transportation no one is interested in trans you know what I mean the niche is so niche that it would be a bit fake to say yeah I'm interested in transport you know but it's the same with everything right like it's like yeah so don't need to lie you don't need to lie that's my point you can tell the truth yeah
  No necesitas decir porque sabes transporte a nadie le interesa en trans sabes a qué me refiero el nicho es tan nicho que sería un poco falso decir sí estoy interesado en transporte sabes pero es lo mismo con todo verdad como es como sí así que no necesitas mentir no necesitas mentir ese es mi punto puedes decir la verdad sí

[13:59] yeah >> makes sense >>
  sí >> tiene sentido >>

[13:59] okay cooler so we start with your story don't go deep don't go into much detail tell your story be passionate and be cheerful And that's it.
  bueno más genial empezamos con tu historia no profundices no entres en mucho detalle cuenta tu historia sé apasionado y sé alegre y eso es todo.

[14:11] You don't complicate it. Okay. >> Perfect. >>
  No lo compliques. De acuerdo. >> Perfecto. >>

[14:15] So great. Now let's let's drive into the technical aspect of it.
  Entonces genial. Ahora vamos a adentrarnos en el aspecto técnico.

[14:16] So I'm going to ask you. Okay. So I've seen your experience. Uh super interesting your work with multiple clients.
  Así que te voy a preguntar. De acuerdo. He visto tu experiencia. Uh súper interesante tu trabajo con múltiples clientes.

[14:22] Can you please guide me through the most challenging or technical project that you've led end to end and how did you approach building it? Yeah. >>
  ¿Puedes guiarme a través del proyecto más desafiante o técnico que has liderado de principio a fin y cómo lo abordaste para construirlo? Sí. >>

[14:31] Yeah. I can mention the opportunity
  Sí. Puedo mencionar la oportunidad

[14:34] Yeah.
  Sí.

[14:34] I can mention the opportunity where I was working on Telus and as I where I was working on Telus and as I was telling you before um at some point was telling you before um at some point the tech lead was asking me like hey I the tech lead was asking me like hey I need some help with this project need some help with this project initiative.
  Puedo mencionar la oportunidad en la que estaba trabajando en Telus y como te decía antes, en algún momento el líder técnico me preguntó, como, oye, necesito ayuda con este proyecto, necesito ayuda con esta iniciativa de proyecto.

[14:45] So uh will be a a very great opportunity for you to start uh uh playing this role.
  Así que, eh, será una muy buena oportunidad para que empieces a desempeñar este rol.

[14:52] And then I started uh playing this role.
  Y entonces empecé a desempeñar este rol.

[14:56] And then I started being a fit for lead about a campaign that in this case uh that in this case uh uh Telus is a a platform that uh sells uh different mobile devices and these kind of things.
  Y luego empecé a ser apto para liderar una campaña en la que en este caso, eh, Telus es una plataforma que vende diferentes dispositivos móviles y este tipo de cosas.

[15:10] And the idea was uh to to deliver a campaign for back back into school.
  Y la idea era, eh, lanzar una campaña para la vuelta al cole.

[15:16] And there um the to to understand all the details about this this business.
  Y allí, eh, para entender todos los detalles sobre este negocio.

[15:23] uh I went with the stakeholders and clarify all the uh all the business uh context and then I translate this to the
  Fui con los interesados y aclaré todo el contexto de negocio y luego lo traduje a

[15:35] and then I translate this to the development team and uh with the BA help.
  Y luego traduzco esto al equipo de desarrollo y, con la ayuda del BA.

[15:40] development team and uh with the BA help I start slicing all the tickets and uh.
  el equipo de desarrollo y, con la ayuda del BA, empiezo a dividir todas las tareas y.

[15:45] I start slicing all the tickets and uh uh in in the middle of the day I uh.
  empiezo a dividir todas las tareas y, eh, a mitad del día, eh.

[15:48] uh in in the middle of the day I uh follow up uh all the this development.
  eh, a mitad del día, eh, hago seguimiento de todo este desarrollo.

[15:52] follow up uh all the this development and what I found is that it it sometimes.
  hago seguimiento de todo este desarrollo y lo que encontré es que a veces.

[15:56] and what I found is that it it sometimes what is more difficult is to handle the.
  y lo que encontré es que a veces lo más difícil es manejar el.

[15:59] what is more difficult is to handle the the human interactions because we were.
  lo más difícil es manejar las interacciones humanas porque estábamos.

[16:02] the human interactions because we were working on on different uh small teams.
  las interacciones humanas porque estábamos trabajando en diferentes equipos pequeños.

[16:05] working on on different uh small teams and most of the time each team have.
  trabajando en diferentes equipos pequeños y la mayor parte del tiempo cada equipo tiene.

[16:08] and most of the time each team have different priorities.
  y la mayor parte del tiempo cada equipo tiene diferentes prioridades.

[16:10] different priorities. So the the way that you can handle this conversation to.
  diferentes prioridades. Así que la forma en que puedes manejar esta conversación para.

[16:13] that you can handle this conversation to get what you need to to to continue.
  que puedes manejar esta conversación para obtener lo que necesitas para continuar.

[16:16] get what you need to to to continue working on on your on your project is is.
  obtener lo que necesitas para continuar trabajando en tu proyecto es.

[16:19] working on on your on your project is is what is the fact that I found that was.
  trabajando en tu proyecto es lo que encontré que fue.

[16:23] what is the fact that I found that was the most challenging for me.
  lo que encontré que fue lo más desafiante para mí.

[16:26] the most challenging for me. And but on the other hand um was very amazing to to.
  lo más desafiante para mí. Y por otro lado, fue muy asombroso para.

[16:32] the other hand um was very amazing to to understand that I could handle the.
  por otro lado, fue muy asombroso para entender que podía manejar el.

[16:34] understand that I could handle the people that I could unblock them from.
  entender que podía manejar a las personas, que podía desbloquearlas de.

[16:36] people that I could unblock them from the technical point of view as well.
  personas que podría desbloquearlas desde el punto de vista técnico también.

[16:39] and the technical point of view as well.
  y desde el punto de vista técnico también.

[16:42] and finally we could deliver this uh this campaign on time on production.
  y finalmente pudimos entregar esta campaña a tiempo en producción.

[16:45] this campaign on time on production.
  esta campaña a tiempo en producción.

[16:47] Okay. Interesting. So you mentioned you talked to stakeholders like how were the meetings like were you on your own with clients?
  De acuerdo. Interesante. Mencionaste que hablaste con los interesados, ¿cómo fueron las reuniones, estuviste solo con los clientes?

[16:51] How how was the procedure like?
  ¿Cómo fue el procedimiento?

[16:53] Yeah. Uh yeah, most of the of the meetings were with the product owner and um at the beginning uh she just started uh um talking about what what she wanted to see on this campaign and then my my main role there was to understand the details about uh how we were going to uh uh handle this on the UX point of view.
  Sí. Uh sí, la mayoría de las reuniones fueron con la propietaria del producto y al principio ella empezó a hablar sobre lo que quería ver en esta campaña y entonces mi rol principal allí fue entender los detalles sobre cómo íbamos a manejar esto desde el punto de vista de UX.

[17:20] uh handle this on the UX point of view.
  manejar esto desde el punto de vista de UX.

[17:23] for example. So I uh also got some help from the UX with some Figma uh uh some Figma um designs
  por ejemplo. Así que también recibí ayuda de UX con algunos diseños de Figma.

[17:37] Designs and then uh with this uh that.
  Diseños y luego eh con esto eh eso.

[17:41] Designs and then uh with this uh that that was uh so much easier to understand.
  Diseños y luego eh con esto eh eso eso fue eh mucho más fácil de entender.

[17:44] That was uh so much easier to understand every idea.
  Eso fue eh mucho más fácil de entender cada idea.

[17:49] And what I also asked to to the team uh was to give me some some.
  Y lo que también le pedí al equipo eh fue que me dieran algunas algunas.

[17:54] The team uh was to give me some some small uh recordings uh to to show them.
  El equipo eh era darme algunas algunas grabaciones pequeñas eh para mostrarles.

[18:00] Small uh recordings uh to to show them to the owner to see if we were uh delivering.
  Pequeñas eh grabaciones eh para mostrarles al propietario para ver si estábamos eh entregando.

[18:04] If we were uh building what uh they were they they were expecting.
  Si estábamos eh construyendo lo que eh ellos estaban esperando.

[18:08] Uh they were they they were expecting.
  Eh ellos estaban esperando.

[18:12] Mhm. Okay. Interesting. And so what was the architecture of this project?
  Mhm. De acuerdo. Interesante. Y entonces, ¿cuál fue la arquitectura de este proyecto?

[18:16] Can you describe to me what was your technical contribution specifically?
  ¿Puede describirme cuál fue su contribución técnica específicamente?

[18:19] Yeah.
  Sí.

[18:22] Uh well uh this was an initiative that was like to add new requirements for uh uh a project that was uh already created.
  Eh bueno eh esta fue una iniciativa que fue como para agregar nuevos requisitos para eh eh un proyecto que ya estaba creado.

[18:34] Uh in this case in this case it was a monolith uh where in the in the.
  Eh en este caso en este caso era un monolito eh donde en el en el.

[18:40] was a monolith uh where in the in the front end we were working with React and Nex.js JS and and Typescript.
  era un monolito uh donde en el front end estábamos trabajando con React y Nex.js JS y Typescript.

[18:47] And on the back end side we were using uh REST APIs and we were connecting uh we were uh making possible the communication between front end and back end with Axios and um so the main idea there was to check uh the starting from the end points and the contracts uh where were the the the fields that were missing or what we had that we had to change to make all this possible.
  Y en el lado del back end estábamos usando uh REST APIs y estábamos conectando uh estábamos uh haciendo posible la comunicación entre front end y back end con Axios y um así que la idea principal allí era verificar uh comenzando desde los puntos finales y los contratos uh dónde estaban los campos que faltaban o lo que teníamos que cambiar para hacer todo esto posible.

[19:16] We were tracking this in every ticket and then uh uh we try to to think about that on on very small task that we can deliver on production quickly to to get feedback uh in uh as soon as possible.
  Estábamos rastreando esto en cada ticket y luego uh uh intentamos pensar en ello en tareas muy pequeñas que podemos entregar en producción rápidamente para obtener retroalimentación uh lo antes posible.

[19:35] But also in the meantime of the development process, I was asking for this uh recordings to
  Pero también mientras tanto en el proceso de desarrollo, estaba pidiendo estas uh grabaciones para

[19:41] I was asking for this uh recordings to to have an even faster feedback.
  Estaba pidiendo estas grabaciones para tener una retroalimentación aún más rápida.

[19:46] So to have an even faster feedback.
  Así que para tener una retroalimentación aún más rápida.

[19:49] So yeah, that was mainly the approach and and in also the owner was participating.
  Así que sí, ese fue principalmente el enfoque y además la propietaria estaba participando.

[19:53] And in also the owner was participating in all the dailies.
  Y además la propietaria participaba en todas las reuniones diarias.

[19:57] So uh she was also following up all the the the process and giving us their feedback in on time.
  Así que ella también estaba siguiendo todo el proceso y dándonos su retroalimentación a tiempo.

[20:03] So that that was very good.
  Así que eso fue muy bueno.

[20:06] On time. So that that was very good.
  A tiempo. Así que eso fue muy bueno.

[20:06] Mhm. Okay. Thank you.
  Mhm. De acuerdo. Gracias.

[20:09] And so I see you mentioned also that in group Apacasia that you actually reduced production.
  Y veo que también mencionó que en el grupo Apacasia redujo la producción.

[20:14] That you actually reduced production production incidents by 25%.
  Que en realidad redujo los incidentes de producción en un 25%.

[20:17] Production incidents by 25%.
  Incidentes de producción en un 25%.

[20:19] Why was that? Like what were those incidents? Why was the reason? Yeah.
  ¿Por qué fue eso? ¿Cómo fueron esos incidentes? ¿Cuál fue la razón? Sí.

[20:22] Incidents? Why was the reason? Yeah.
  Incidentes? ¿Cuál fue la razón? Sí.

[20:24] Well, um most of them were like uh from uh like from user experience like for example um.
  Bueno, la mayoría de ellos fueron de la experiencia del usuario, por ejemplo.

[20:29] Most of them were like uh from uh like from user experience like for example um they had uh different errors uh that were blocking the the final user but.
  La mayoría de ellos fueron de la experiencia del usuario, por ejemplo, tenían diferentes errores que estaban bloqueando al usuario final, pero.

[20:37] Were blocking the the final user but they were very technical in in a very.
  Estaban bloqueando al usuario final, pero eran muy técnicos en un muy.

[20:44] they were very technical in in a very technical language. So for example, one

[20:46] technical language. So for example, one of my contributions there was uh to

[20:50] of my contributions there was uh to translate uh exactly to to the costume

[20:54] translate uh exactly to to the costume language what was happening what she or

[20:56] language what was happening what she or what they can uh do instead. And uh for

[21:01] what they can uh do instead. And uh for doing this what I did was uh like taking

[21:06] doing this what I did was uh like taking the the permission names that they were

[21:10] the the permission names that they were missing for example and from the from

[21:13] missing for example and from the from the database and putting the in the

[21:16] the database and putting the in the messages and in this in this case if uh

[21:21] messages and in this in this case if uh they they can say to the admin hey I'm

[21:24] they they can say to the admin hey I'm I'm not allowed to to to to do this task

[21:28] I'm not allowed to to to to do this task because uh missing this this this

[21:31] because uh missing this this this permission and then uh in this way we

[21:33] permission and then uh in this way we were able to to handle all this issue in

[21:37] were able to to handle all this issue in a in a faster way.

[21:38] a in a faster way. >> Okay.

[21:39] >> Okay. >> For example,

[21:40] >> For example, >> okay, perfect. And now let's talk about

[21:42] >> okay, perfect. And now let's talk about your backend and API uh design

[21:45] your backend and API uh design experience, right? Because this role for

[21:47] experience, right? Because this role for example, we here at Flog, we use

[21:49] example, we here at Flog, we use TypeScript. Uh so that's why we're

[21:51] TypeScript. Uh so that's why we're interested in your profile, but we also

[21:53] interested in your profile, but we also use Posgress, right? So I would like to

[21:56] use Posgress, right? So I would like to know um um if you can guide me through I

[22:00] know um um if you can guide me through I don't know your API layer experience if

[22:02] don't know your API layer experience if you've ever worked with rest endpoints

[22:05] you've ever worked with rest endpoints authentication how was the process like

[22:07] authentication how was the process like how did you manage to tackle this tasks

[22:11] how did you manage to tackle this tasks yeah

[22:13] yeah >> just to to understand do you want me to

[22:16] >> just to to understand do you want me to to

[22:18] to tell you about a process that where I

[22:20] tell you about a process that where I handle Typescript postgress and and

[22:23] handle Typescript postgress and and which kind of process Yes, I can I can

[22:26] which kind of process Yes, I can I can >> no if you can guide me through some

[22:28] >> no if you can guide me through some examples of where you've worked with

[22:30] examples of where you've worked with REST APIs and how was the workflow like

[22:33] REST APIs and how was the workflow like which tasks did you have to implement

[22:35] which tasks did you have to implement like authentication for example

[22:37] like authentication for example endpoints like how was the procedure?

[22:39] endpoints like how was the procedure? Yeah.

[22:40] Yeah. >> Okay. Um well yeah uh

[22:45] >> Okay. Um well yeah uh I I haven't worked now with an

[22:48] I I haven't worked now with an authentication but we if I would do it

[22:51] authentication but we if I would do it what I would do is uh I'm I'm going to

[22:55] what I would do is uh I'm I'm going to evaluate for example uh if if it's for a

[23:01] evaluate for example uh if if it's for a for a kind of business where I need to

[23:04] for a kind of business where I need to to like remove the the permissions

[23:08] to like remove the the permissions because you are Um maybe someone stole

[23:13] because you are Um maybe someone stole stole your your mobile phone and then uh

[23:17] stole your your mobile phone and then uh you are you have your bank account there

[23:20] you are you have your bank account there and in this case for example I would uh

[23:24] and in this case for example I would uh um use uh session cookies because even

[23:29] um use uh session cookies because even when it's a stateful approach it's going

[23:32] when it's a stateful approach it's going to take memory from the service is the

[23:35] to take memory from the service is the the faster way to to remove uh this

[23:41] the faster way to to remove uh this cookie and with this anyone is going to

[23:43] cookie and with this anyone is going to have permission about your your bank

[23:45] have permission about your your bank account and on the other hand if the

[23:49] account and on the other hand if the kind of business is not so critical like

[23:51] kind of business is not so critical like this one maybe I would suggest to use

[23:55] this one maybe I would suggest to use JWT token because in this case uh is uh

[24:00] JWT token because in this case uh is uh stateless uh it means that we're not

[24:02] stateless uh it means that we're not going to need uh service memory except

[24:05] going to need uh service memory except sorry server memory and then Uh the the

[24:10] sorry server memory and then Uh the the the idea here is that uh for one side

[24:14] the idea here is that uh for one side you're not going to need this server

[24:16] you're not going to need this server memory but on the other side it will be

[24:19] memory but on the other side it will be uh more difficult to to remove this

[24:22] uh more difficult to to remove this token uh in case we are in a critical

[24:25] token uh in case we are in a critical situation that we need to remove

[24:27] situation that we need to remove permissions or something.

[24:29] permissions or something. Um

[24:31] Um also um when um in the middle of a

[24:35] also um when um in the middle of a process of developing an API

[24:38] process of developing an API uh let's say that we have to to

[24:43] uh let's say that we have to to introduce a breaking change like uh

[24:46] introduce a breaking change like uh we're going to remove a field and so I

[24:49] we're going to remove a field and so I would say that the process the right

[24:50] would say that the process the right process uh uh is to

[24:55] process uh uh is to to um handle in the header all the

[24:58] to um handle in the header all the stages starting with deprecation that is

[25:02] stages starting with deprecation that is like uh adding a a new field in the

[25:05] like uh adding a a new field in the header deprecation through to let the

[25:08] header deprecation through to let the all the consumers of this API that soon

[25:10] all the consumers of this API that soon this is going to this API is going to be

[25:13] this is going to this API is going to be changed and then uh what I'm going to do

[25:17] changed and then uh what I'm going to do is to have uh both uh versions uh

[25:23] is to have uh both uh versions uh running in parallel uh the old one and

[25:26] running in parallel uh the old one and new one and the idea There is uh the the

[25:30] new one and the idea There is uh the the process is going to continue then uh

[25:34] process is going to continue then uh changing the state uh from from

[25:36] changing the state uh from from deprecation to sunset uh and we just

[25:40] deprecation to sunset uh and we just change to sunset when we uh we are uh

[25:46] change to sunset when we uh we are uh pretty sure that almost any consumer is

[25:50] pretty sure that almost any consumer is using this this uh API and we finally

[25:53] using this this uh API and we finally remove the old version when we actually

[25:57] remove the old version when we actually know that we are anyone is using it and

[26:01] know that we are anyone is using it and this point is important because uh if

[26:04] this point is important because uh if you don't follow this cycle you are

[26:07] you don't follow this cycle you are going to lose the trust of your

[26:09] going to lose the trust of your consumers and this is not what we want

[26:11] consumers and this is not what we want to to do in any case

[26:13] to to do in any case >> um what else I can tell you also uh

[26:16] >> um what else I can tell you also uh talking about the API versioning that is

[26:20] talking about the API versioning that is uh the sorry there are three approaches

[26:22] uh the sorry there are three approaches and uh that is the URL versioning the

[26:28] and uh that is the URL versioning the query param versioning and uh

[26:33] query param versioning and uh I don't remember now if that is the

[26:34] I don't remember now if that is the right name heather heather

[26:37] right name heather heather uh version the thing is that the in the

[26:40] uh version the thing is that the in the most cases what I would use uh probably

[26:45] most cases what I would use uh probably more frequently will be URL versioning

[26:48] more frequently will be URL versioning because it's like the the easiest to

[26:52] because it's like the the easiest to first of all you can see the version in

[26:54] first of all you can see the version in the URL from one side Yes, you're going

[26:57] the URL from one side Yes, you're going to see your dirty URL with this. But on

[27:00] to see your dirty URL with this. But on the other hand, you're going to have uh

[27:03] the other hand, you're going to have uh a better or easiest catching and

[27:06] a better or easiest catching and debugging and all these processes that

[27:08] debugging and all these processes that you you would need in this in that's

[27:12] you you would need in this in that's while you are uh adding changes to an

[27:15] while you are uh adding changes to an API. um

[27:18] API. um uh about the query parent approach is

[27:21] uh about the query parent approach is the I wouldn't recommend to use it

[27:24] the I wouldn't recommend to use it because is uh query parents are for

[27:28] because is uh query parents are for filtering and pagination and not for uh

[27:31] filtering and pagination and not for uh versioning uh applications and in

[27:33] versioning uh applications and in general um

[27:36] general um when a API is well designed is is is

[27:40] when a API is well designed is is is designed in a good way we're not going

[27:42] designed in a good way we're not going to need most of the time doing breaking

[27:45] to need most of the time doing breaking changes because uh if we talked in the

[27:48] changes because uh if we talked in the right way at the beginning all the

[27:50] right way at the beginning all the changes are going to be compatible with

[27:52] changes are going to be compatible with this uh

[27:55] this uh original version of the the API.

[27:58] original version of the the API. >> Um

[27:59] >> Um >> okay let's let's stop here. Um if they

[28:02] >> okay let's let's stop here. Um if they ask you about like API design or

[28:04] ask you about like API design or experience, you don't need to go that

[28:06] experience, you don't need to go that deep. It's better if you talk on a high

[28:08] deep. It's better if you talk on a high level about a project and you guide them

[28:10] level about a project and you guide them through how you build it and you you say

[28:12] through how you build it and you you say like yes I've worked with APIs uh for

[28:15] like yes I've worked with APIs uh for example for this specific project

[28:17] example for this specific project because of this like I implemented this

[28:19] because of this like I implemented this this this and this features using REST

[28:21] this this and this features using REST APIs and yes creating endpoints handling

[28:24] APIs and yes creating endpoints handling the authentication the the gateways etc

[28:26] the authentication the the gateways etc and then if they ask you to okay and how

[28:28] and then if they ask you to okay and how do you handle the versioning of the APIs

[28:31] do you handle the versioning of the APIs that's when you answer but you don't

[28:33] that's when you answer but you don't need to give descriptions if they don't

[28:34] need to give descriptions if they don't ask ask you You just like tell the the

[28:38] ask ask you You just like tell the the high level story. Let's say you go as

[28:40] high level story. Let's say you go as deep as they want you to be to you know

[28:42] deep as they want you to be to you know what I mean?

[28:43] what I mean? >> Yes. They are going to guide the

[28:45] >> Yes. They are going to guide the conversation.

[28:46] conversation. >> Exactly. Okay. And so Okay. Great. Then

[28:49] >> Exactly. Okay. And so Okay. Great. Then regarding event ingestion, have you ever

[28:52] regarding event ingestion, have you ever worked with SQSQs or like with async

[28:55] worked with SQSQs or like with async processing for example or with cues in

[28:58] processing for example or with cues in general?

[28:59] general? Look, I I haven't had experience

[29:02] Look, I I haven't had experience creating this on on my own, but uh right

[29:06] creating this on on my own, but uh right now at grouppasia uh I'm working with a

[29:09] now at grouppasia uh I'm working with a teammate that is working on that and I

[29:11] teammate that is working on that and I was following all these process closely.

[29:15] was following all these process closely. So yeah, I'm familiar with all these

[29:18] So yeah, I'm familiar with all these concepts

[29:20] concepts uh because of this.

[29:23] uh because of this. >> I can tell you.

[29:24] >> I can tell you. >> Can you just give me a brief description

[29:26] >> Can you just give me a brief description of what driven means? Yeah.

[29:29] of what driven means? Yeah. >> Well, an event driven is the approach

[29:32] >> Well, an event driven is the approach that you can use when

[29:35] that you can use when uh

[29:38] uh when the the amount of frequency you're

[29:40] when the the amount of frequency you're that your application is going to

[29:43] that your application is going to receive is not uh continuously. is not

[29:49] receive is not uh continuously. is not uh you're going to uh receive

[29:55] this request in in a way that you cannot

[29:58] this request in in a way that you cannot uh predict. It's like

[30:02] uh predict. It's like uh for example uh you you get a request

[30:07] uh for example uh you you get a request now and then in one hour more and then

[30:10] now and then in one hour more and then in two hours more. For these kind of uh

[30:13] in two hours more. For these kind of uh approaches, it's better to use as as an

[30:16] approaches, it's better to use as as an event-driven approach, a serverless uh

[30:20] event-driven approach, a serverless uh architecture. And in the case of of AWS,

[30:25] architecture. And in the case of of AWS, we can use more specifically lambda

[30:27] we can use more specifically lambda lambda function where uh the main idea

[30:31] lambda function where uh the main idea there is that each time that you get an

[30:34] there is that each time that you get an event uh this architecture is is going

[30:37] event uh this architecture is is going to like awake and start uh uh

[30:43] to like awake and start uh uh receiving and getting all the process

[30:46] receiving and getting all the process that you are going to need for for your

[30:48] that you are going to need for for your business.

[30:50] business. >> Mhm. Okay. I have to say be careful

[30:52] >> Mhm. Okay. I have to say be careful because event driven is not when um

[30:56] because event driven is not when um that's it's a correct answer but it's

[30:57] that's it's a correct answer but it's not complete right so event driven

[30:59] not complete right so event driven architecture is for a synchronous

[31:00] architecture is for a synchronous systems so that means many things uh you

[31:04] systems so that means many things uh you can use lambda functions but you can

[31:06] can use lambda functions but you can also use kafka you can use Amazon SQSQS

[31:09] also use kafka you can use Amazon SQSQS whatever there's many tools and event

[31:11] whatever there's many tools and event driven is what it means is just that the

[31:13] driven is what it means is just that the architecture is asynchronous and it also

[31:16] architecture is asynchronous and it also allows architecture to scale much more

[31:18] allows architecture to scale much more easily because it's independent for

[31:20] easily because it's independent for example Microservices force you to have

[31:23] example Microservices force you to have like if you use a rest API they need to

[31:25] like if you use a rest API they need to have the same schema they need to be

[31:27] have the same schema they need to be compatible you need to do the versioning

[31:29] compatible you need to do the versioning so that's complicated event driven isn't

[31:32] so that's complicated event driven isn't event driven allows you to scale

[31:33] event driven allows you to scale completely because like each service is

[31:35] completely because like each service is handled differently each Q handles on

[31:38] handled differently each Q handles on their own and they just consume it so

[31:40] their own and they just consume it so for example in IQ you send it is first

[31:42] for example in IQ you send it is first in first out right so you send the data

[31:44] in first out right so you send the data and then you read it

[31:45] and then you read it >> that's it but then with CFKA CFKA is

[31:48] >> that's it but then with CFKA CFKA is kind of like an asynchronous database is

[31:50] kind of like an asynchronous database is because it handles the it's handled on

[31:53] because it handles the it's handled on its own. Sorry. So, Kafka stores the

[31:55] its own. Sorry. So, Kafka stores the data with these different streams and

[31:57] data with these different streams and then you consume them. So, it doesn't

[31:58] then you consume them. So, it doesn't affect the code of your services. It

[32:00] affect the code of your services. It just stores the data. So, be careful

[32:02] just stores the data. So, be careful that just make sure you read what event

[32:04] that just make sure you read what event driven means. Just have it on your mind

[32:06] driven means. Just have it on your mind like okay this is event driven. That's

[32:08] like okay this is event driven. That's it. Like don't worry too much.

[32:10] it. Like don't worry too much. >> Okay.

[32:13] >> Okay. Then regarding you mentioned lambda

[32:14] Then regarding you mentioned lambda functions h we're particularly

[32:16] functions h we're particularly interested because we do leverage AWS.

[32:18] interested because we do leverage AWS. Uh when would you say that it's not

[32:20] Uh when would you say that it's not smart to use lambda functions?

[32:24] smart to use lambda functions? >> When you're gonna you

[32:27] >> When you're gonna you for a critical service where you're

[32:29] for a critical service where you're pretty sure you're going to get requests

[32:32] pretty sure you're going to get requests uh in a very frequent way and in a very

[32:36] uh in a very frequent way and in a very predictable way.

[32:37] predictable way. >> Mhm.

[32:40] >> Mhm. Okay. So the the correct answer could be

[32:42] Okay. So the the correct answer could be I I also I haven't worked with Lambda

[32:44] I I also I haven't worked with Lambda functions but uh the correct answer

[32:47] functions but uh the correct answer would be okay when we work with a heavy

[32:49] would be okay when we work with a heavy memory system because Lambda functions

[32:51] memory system because Lambda functions are very how do you say they're great uh

[32:54] are very how do you say they're great uh for your system to be lightweight right

[32:57] for your system to be lightweight right because like you send data like you

[32:58] because like you send data like you don't need to build the back end first

[33:00] don't need to build the back end first you can just like use predefined

[33:01] you can just like use predefined functions and also when you have high

[33:04] functions and also when you have high concurrency that's not when you that's a

[33:07] concurrency that's not when you that's a situation where you shouldn't precisely

[33:09] situation where you shouldn't precisely because of this problem, right? Like

[33:10] because of this problem, right? Like lambda functions are like predefined

[33:12] lambda functions are like predefined functions. They allow you to scale

[33:14] functions. They allow you to scale quickly. They're lightweight and stuff,

[33:15] quickly. They're lightweight and stuff, but if we have heavy systems with lots

[33:18] but if we have heavy systems with lots of data, that might not be a great

[33:19] of data, that might not be a great scenario to use lambda functions.

[33:22] scenario to use lambda functions. >> Okay.

[33:22] >> Okay. >> So, yeah, another question. Yes, because

[33:24] >> So, yeah, another question. Yes, because you know why I say because the system is

[33:26] you know why I say because the system is serverless and they use AWS, so they

[33:28] serverless and they use AWS, so they might make use some AWS questions.

[33:31] might make use some AWS questions. >> Sure. Yeah, I was studying about this

[33:35] >> Sure. Yeah, I was studying about this and yeah, but I'm going to pay attention

[33:38] and yeah, but I'm going to pay attention about this part. Uh-huh. Then regarding

[33:41] about this part. Uh-huh. Then regarding monitoring, uh they also use AWS, right?

[33:44] monitoring, uh they also use AWS, right? So have you worked with cloudatch with

[33:46] So have you worked with cloudatch with metrics? Can you just describe it

[33:48] metrics? Can you just describe it briefly to me how you work with that?

[33:50] briefly to me how you work with that? Yeah.

[33:51] Yeah. Well um as I was telling you telling you

[33:56] Well um as I was telling you telling you um I'm following what the team have been

[33:59] um I'm following what the team have been working but I haven't

[34:02] working but I haven't focus on this uh actually but what I

[34:05] focus on this uh actually but what I thought is that they are using cloudatch

[34:08] thought is that they are using cloudatch for managing the logs

[34:10] for managing the logs >> and yeah uh so during all the process uh

[34:15] >> and yeah uh so during all the process uh they are sending uh the logs to this uh

[34:19] they are sending uh the logs to this uh tool from AWS

[34:21] tool from AWS >> directly I don't have so much. It's not

[34:24] >> directly I don't have so much. It's not the the what I think is that the handle

[34:26] the the what I think is that the handle about code watches is simple. So that's

[34:30] about code watches is simple. So that's why I don't anything else to say

[34:33] why I don't anything else to say >> don't have it.

[34:34] >> don't have it. >> And so how do you have you ever worked

[34:36] >> And so how do you have you ever worked with login tools monitoring? How do you

[34:39] with login tools monitoring? How do you identify a mistake for an error in

[34:41] identify a mistake for an error in production for example? What's the first

[34:42] production for example? What's the first thing you do?

[34:45] thing you do? Um well,

[34:47] Um well, first to to to be able to identify uh a

[34:52] first to to to be able to identify uh a log that is an error, uh um make sure

[34:55] log that is an error, uh um make sure always that uh I make this the

[35:01] always that uh I make this the I use the the error tags or warning tags

[35:04] I use the the error tags or warning tags in in the logs to to pay attention on on

[35:07] in in the logs to to pay attention on on the on this while I'm following up this

[35:11] the on this while I'm following up this on the on on felt watch more

[35:13] on the on on felt watch more specifically.

[35:14] specifically. And

[35:16] And uh after that uh I start following the

[35:21] uh after that uh I start following the all the stack trace and I look for for

[35:25] all the stack trace and I look for for actually for the last one because

[35:27] actually for the last one because actually it's like this this line is is

[35:32] actually it's like this this line is is the the first one that was run that was

[35:35] the the first one that was run that was run and then I start like uh watching

[35:39] run and then I start like uh watching the next ones that are that are uh below

[35:43] the next ones that are that are uh below this lines and and so on. Um because

[35:47] this lines and and so on. Um because this is like uh the most of the the

[35:52] this is like uh the most of the the process are going to print their their

[35:55] process are going to print their their steps in this way. So yeah, it's like

[35:59] steps in this way. So yeah, it's like they are going to tell you story uh but

[36:01] they are going to tell you story uh but it's like everything is upside down and

[36:04] it's like everything is upside down and you have to know how to read it.

[36:07] you have to know how to read it. >> Mhm. Okay. Perfect. Perfect. And so

[36:10] >> Mhm. Okay. Perfect. Perfect. And so regarding Posgress or SQL um one of the

[36:14] regarding Posgress or SQL um one of the two so do you know what is an index in

[36:17] two so do you know what is an index in Postgress? Yes, that's like uh when you

[36:21] Postgress? Yes, that's like uh when you have a book and you have a book index is

[36:26] have a book and you have a book index is kind of the same uh let's say that this

[36:30] kind of the same uh let's say that this index book index tell tell you that uh

[36:33] index book index tell tell you that uh the information about

[36:36] the information about transactions are in the page uh 100 101

[36:41] transactions are in the page uh 100 101 and 103 and it's the same here they are

[36:44] and 103 and it's the same here they are telling you the the data base

[36:48] telling you the the data base uh where exactly you're going to find

[36:51] uh where exactly you're going to find this information and uh there are some

[36:55] this information and uh there are some cases when it's useful and other ones

[36:58] cases when it's useful and other ones where it's not so useful to to use it.

[37:02] where it's not so useful to to use it. >> If you want me to go deeper, I can go.

[37:04] >> If you want me to go deeper, I can go. >> Okay. Make sure when you talk about

[37:06] >> Okay. Make sure when you talk about indexes to mention that they are meant

[37:09] indexes to mention that they are meant to be built when you need to read data

[37:11] to be built when you need to read data more easily because the problem with

[37:14] more easily because the problem with indexes is like yes they make they allow

[37:16] indexes is like yes they make they allow you for example you have a table and

[37:18] you for example you have a table and then every time you you have the

[37:20] then every time you you have the accounts table and every time you read

[37:22] accounts table and every time you read the accounts table there's two features

[37:23] the accounts table there's two features that are used all the time which is like

[37:25] that are used all the time which is like reading accounts by creation date and

[37:28] reading accounts by creation date and reading accounts by uh I don't know what

[37:31] reading accounts by uh I don't know what this company does but whatever other

[37:34] this company does but whatever other attribute like last name. So if those

[37:37] attribute like last name. So if those attributes are used all the time, you

[37:39] attributes are used all the time, you create two indexes to be able to read

[37:40] create two indexes to be able to read the data ordered by the index by those

[37:43] the data ordered by the index by those columns. The problem and you can say it

[37:45] columns. The problem and you can say it you can say the problem here is that

[37:46] you can say the problem here is that indexes make writing data might be

[37:50] indexes make writing data might be slower. So sometimes it might be tricky.

[37:53] slower. So sometimes it might be tricky. So it's something you need to consider

[37:54] So it's something you need to consider depends on the case. I don't have a

[37:56] depends on the case. I don't have a fixed answer but usually you would

[37:58] fixed answer but usually you would create indexes to read data more um

[38:01] create indexes to read data more um fastly sorry faster faster. Yeah.

[38:06] fastly sorry faster faster. Yeah. Great. So, regarding Postgress, um,

[38:11] Great. So, regarding Postgress, um, okay, another question.

[38:14] okay, another question. What if a DB migration in production uh

[38:17] What if a DB migration in production uh has a problem? Um, how would you roll

[38:20] has a problem? Um, how would you roll back the changes? How would you approach

[38:22] back the changes? How would you approach it?

[38:26] If you have an issue in production and

[38:28] If you have an issue in production and you have to roll back um

[38:32] you have to roll back um honestly I don't know

[38:34] honestly I don't know >> that's fine

[38:35] >> that's fine >> it's the situation before so what you

[38:37] >> it's the situation before so what you would say in this case

[38:39] would say in this case >> uh what I would say is that because when

[38:41] >> uh what I would say is that because when you deploy when you merge a branch right

[38:44] you deploy when you merge a branch right to the main branch and then you deploy

[38:47] to the main branch and then you deploy it to production right uh first of all

[38:50] it to production right uh first of all the way I would avoid it is because in

[38:52] the way I would avoid it is because in the QA environment I would I would test

[38:54] the QA environment I would I would test everything so I make sure to test this

[38:56] everything so I make sure to test this feature in the testing environment. But

[38:59] feature in the testing environment. But if it gets deployed to production and it

[39:01] if it gets deployed to production and it happens, I would make sure to roll back

[39:04] happens, I would make sure to roll back the changes. So in order for me to do

[39:07] the changes. So in order for me to do that, there's multiple options. The

[39:08] that, there's multiple options. The first one that comes to mind is actually

[39:10] first one that comes to mind is actually I could create a new DBS script because

[39:12] I could create a new DBS script because I usually try my DB changes using GitHub

[39:16] I usually try my DB changes using GitHub with like yeah with the query files like

[39:19] with like yeah with the query files like with technologies like Flywell, liquase

[39:22] with technologies like Flywell, liquase all these flyway sorry and liquase. So

[39:24] all these flyway sorry and liquase. So basically what I would do is like to

[39:26] basically what I would do is like to create a new um DB change with the new

[39:29] create a new um DB change with the new versioning

[39:31] versioning uh changing roll like making a roll back

[39:33] uh changing roll like making a roll back of the previous changes. So literally

[39:35] of the previous changes. So literally just adding again the changes but

[39:37] just adding again the changes but rolling back and then making sure I fix

[39:40] rolling back and then making sure I fix it. And if I need to rewrite some data I

[39:44] it. And if I need to rewrite some data I I can even do manually although I always

[39:46] I can even do manually although I always try to make sure I don't do that in

[39:47] try to make sure I don't do that in production just because it's very risky.

[39:49] production just because it's very risky. But yeah those are the first two ideas.

[39:51] But yeah those are the first two ideas. First of all, I would make sure to test

[39:52] First of all, I would make sure to test properly in QA or staging and if it

[39:55] properly in QA or staging and if it happens, okay, in that case, yes, we

[39:57] happens, okay, in that case, yes, we need to roll back and that's it.

[40:00] need to roll back and that's it. >> Okay. Okay. Makes sense.

[40:01] >> Okay. Okay. Makes sense. >> Okay. Hope I I explained myself

[40:03] >> Okay. Hope I I explained myself properly. Yeah.

[40:06] properly. Yeah. >> I shouldn't add that maybe I will need

[40:08] >> I shouldn't add that maybe I will need to add a new migration

[40:10] to add a new migration correcting the the the table or the

[40:14] correcting the the the table or the >> Yeah. So some sometimes what happens the

[40:16] >> Yeah. So some sometimes what happens the problem with production DBs is that

[40:18] problem with production DBs is that sometimes exactly you might accidentally

[40:20] sometimes exactly you might accidentally delete data or create data or you change

[40:23] delete data or create data or you change it right and it's an accident that's why

[40:25] it right and it's an accident that's why um for you to fix it you deploy again

[40:28] um for you to fix it you deploy again and the new deployment contains the roll

[40:31] and the new deployment contains the roll back of the query changes and it may has

[40:34] back of the query changes and it may has to manually add the rows. So manually in

[40:37] to manually add the rows. So manually in the script of the DB changes you

[40:39] the script of the DB changes you literally say insert table with this

[40:42] literally say insert table with this sorry insert row with this data. You

[40:44] sorry insert row with this data. You literally insert it manually but you can

[40:47] literally insert it manually but you can never touch the database. You can you

[40:49] never touch the database. You can you should never do in production. It's

[40:51] should never do in production. It's non-negotiable because it can literally

[40:53] non-negotiable because it can literally mess up with all the data.

[40:55] mess up with all the data. >> Don't change manually the database ever.

[40:59] >> Don't change manually the database ever. >> That's like horrible practice. Yeah.

[41:03] >> That's like horrible practice. Yeah. So that's just one question that might

[41:04] So that's just one question that might make you like oh so with SQL what if in

[41:07] make you like oh so with SQL what if in production it breaks or and first thing

[41:11] production it breaks or and first thing I would always make sure to say no I

[41:13] I would always make sure to say no I make sure I test it properly in a

[41:14] make sure I test it properly in a staging with a QA or on my own I spend

[41:17] staging with a QA or on my own I spend loads of time testing each cases

[41:19] loads of time testing each cases scenarios but if even in that situation

[41:22] scenarios but if even in that situation it happens I will roll back and if if

[41:24] it happens I will roll back and if if necessary I will create a script that

[41:26] necessary I will create a script that actually inserts the data back again or

[41:30] actually inserts the data back again or changes whatever needs to be changed

[41:32] changes whatever needs to be changed creating the queries.

[41:33] creating the queries. >> Got it.

[41:34] >> Got it. >> Yeah. Okay. Last questions and I think

[41:38] >> Yeah. Okay. Last questions and I think that's it. So, regarding testing, um you

[41:42] that's it. So, regarding testing, um you mentioned that you achieve 90% of test

[41:44] mentioned that you achieve 90% of test coverage uh in one of your projects.

[41:46] coverage uh in one of your projects. Which kind which types of tests have you

[41:49] Which kind which types of tests have you built your yourself?

[41:54] Well uh in most of all the projects that

[41:59] Well uh in most of all the projects that where I have been contributing I apply

[42:02] where I have been contributing I apply the the pyramid test that it basically

[42:07] the the pyramid test that it basically consists on have in at the

[42:10] consists on have in at the at the top at the bottom of a pyramid uh

[42:15] at the top at the bottom of a pyramid uh unit test because it's the the large

[42:18] unit test because it's the the large amount of test that you're going to have

[42:20] amount of test that you're going to have in most of the projects be Because if

[42:23] in most of the projects be Because if you apply testdriven development uh the

[42:27] you apply testdriven development uh the actually the thing that you're going to

[42:28] actually the thing that you're going to do first is to create the the test

[42:30] do first is to create the the test before the functionality that you're

[42:32] before the functionality that you're going to add and uh when the in the

[42:36] going to add and uh when the in the cases where I achieve this kind of

[42:38] cases where I achieve this kind of percentage that is very high is because

[42:40] percentage that is very high is because I I was applying this approach and uh

[42:44] I I was applying this approach and uh one thing to keep in mind on this is

[42:46] one thing to keep in mind on this is that it's not just a matter of adding a

[42:49] that it's not just a matter of adding a lot of unit test but the quality of this

[42:52] lot of unit test but the quality of this one should be uh the one that allow us

[42:55] one should be uh the one that allow us to ensure that we're going to uh

[42:59] to ensure that we're going to uh protecting every functionality with this

[43:01] protecting every functionality with this and also um following with the idea of a

[43:05] and also um following with the idea of a pyramid. Uh once we have this we can

[43:07] pyramid. Uh once we have this we can decide in the middle of a pyramid if

[43:09] decide in the middle of a pyramid if we're going to add integration test or

[43:12] we're going to add integration test or contract tested. Most of the time it's

[43:14] contract tested. Most of the time it's kind of the same but it's like an

[43:15] kind of the same but it's like an agreement of every team and there the

[43:19] agreement of every team and there the main idea is to make sure that we are

[43:22] main idea is to make sure that we are not breaking any contract with any

[43:24] not breaking any contract with any service that we are consuming or or that

[43:27] service that we are consuming or or that we are uh serving.

[43:30] we are uh serving. And after that we have the top of a

[43:32] And after that we have the top of a pyramid where uh we have the end to end

[43:35] pyramid where uh we have the end to end test. And the reason why we are at the

[43:38] test. And the reason why we are at the top and they are small amount of test is

[43:42] top and they are small amount of test is because they consume a lot of resources

[43:45] because they consume a lot of resources and at some point if you are a lot of

[43:47] and at some point if you are a lot of them you're going to see that they are

[43:49] them you're going to see that they are going to consume uh all their memory and

[43:52] going to consume uh all their memory and they are going to start failing when

[43:53] they are going to start failing when actually maybe your functionality is

[43:56] actually maybe your functionality is working correctly. So uh they start they

[44:01] working correctly. So uh they start they start being like flaky flaky test and at

[44:05] start being like flaky flaky test and at this when when you when you find

[44:08] this when when you when you find yourself at this point you you

[44:10] yourself at this point you you understand that this is not working as

[44:12] understand that this is not working as as you as you need in the product. Um

[44:15] as you as you need in the product. Um yeah, basically that's

[44:16] yeah, basically that's >> I I love this answer. You know why?

[44:19] >> I I love this answer. You know why? Because uh it's something I said in the

[44:22] Because uh it's something I said in the in the workshop like you start talking

[44:24] in the workshop like you start talking about testing and then you say how you

[44:26] about testing and then you say how you approach testing based on your

[44:27] approach testing based on your experience. That's what they want to

[44:29] experience. That's what they want to hear. They don't want you to know

[44:30] hear. They don't want you to know everything. It's impossible. None of us

[44:32] everything. It's impossible. None of us do. No one that knows everything. And I

[44:34] do. No one that knows everything. And I don't know. I've never worked with

[44:35] don't know. I've never worked with Lambda functions for example, you know.

[44:37] Lambda functions for example, you know. And wait.

[44:40] And wait. >> Yeah. So I've never worked with like

[44:42] >> Yeah. So I've never worked with like Lambda functions or like with but they

[44:44] Lambda functions or like with but they don't want you to know everything. is

[44:46] don't want you to know everything. is literally you can say so for example

[44:49] literally you can say so for example I've never worked with I don't know

[44:50] I've never worked with I don't know spring boot mock

[44:53] spring boot mock mock testing unit testing spring boot

[44:56] mock testing unit testing spring boot and you can say listen I actually never

[44:58] and you can say listen I actually never wor with mock testing but with

[45:00] wor with mock testing but with typescript the way I approach testing is

[45:02] typescript the way I approach testing is I build end to end test why because in

[45:05] I build end to end test why because in the front end the way we do testing is

[45:06] the front end the way we do testing is because we test the scenarios so we

[45:09] because we test the scenarios so we build test based on different scenarios

[45:10] build test based on different scenarios and we make sure the tests are thorough

[45:12] and we make sure the tests are thorough and like they test different features so

[45:15] and like they test different features so we want want to make sure we cover all

[45:16] we want want to make sure we cover all the edge cases possible. We want to make

[45:18] the edge cases possible. We want to make sure the tests are also quick and don't

[45:21] sure the tests are also quick and don't block the deployment of new features. So

[45:23] block the deployment of new features. So this is how we approach it. We use the

[45:25] this is how we approach it. We use the pyramid model blah blah blah. So you

[45:28] pyramid model blah blah blah. So you don't need to know everything. Don't

[45:29] don't need to know everything. Don't worry, don't worry about that. Okay?

[45:31] worry, don't worry about that. Okay? It's like it's more about how you

[45:33] It's like it's more about how you understand what they're saying. It's

[45:34] understand what they're saying. It's like, okay, yes, wait, this is similar

[45:36] like, okay, yes, wait, this is similar to what I've done with this other

[45:37] to what I've done with this other technology and I use it this way and

[45:40] technology and I use it this way and blah blah blah. Okay? So don't worry.

[45:42] blah blah blah. Okay? So don't worry. Don't worry. like don't worry about not

[45:44] Don't worry. like don't worry about not knowing everything. It's literally and

[45:46] knowing everything. It's literally and something I'm I'm learning as well is

[45:48] something I'm I'm learning as well is when when I interview you, I'm reading

[45:49] when when I interview you, I'm reading the job description. So that's why I'm

[45:51] the job description. So that's why I'm changing the questions. So another

[45:53] changing the questions. So another question when they talk about testing

[45:54] question when they talk about testing here in the job description, they say

[45:56] here in the job description, they say you need to have a thoughtful approach

[45:58] you need to have a thoughtful approach about testing and the full development

[46:00] about testing and the full development life cycle and they also say about

[46:03] life cycle and they also say about maintenance and operational runbooks. So

[46:05] maintenance and operational runbooks. So do you know what is an operational

[46:07] do you know what is an operational runbook?

[46:08] runbook? >> No. No, I don't. So when you do have you

[46:11] >> No. No, I don't. So when you do have you ever done

[46:13] ever done uncleas

[46:19] okay so make sure you say yes actually

[46:22] okay so make sure you say yes actually when I need to maintain the services yes

[46:24] when I need to maintain the services yes we do create runbooks because what if

[46:26] we do create runbooks because what if something happens at 2 am right I don't

[46:28] something happens at 2 am right I don't know everything I don't know I don't

[46:29] know everything I don't know I don't have the whole context of the project so

[46:31] have the whole context of the project so yes we do create a runbook we write down

[46:33] yes we do create a runbook we write down the procedures based on different mis

[46:35] the procedures based on different mis errors why because the errors repeat

[46:37] errors why because the errors repeat themselves all the time so we just want

[46:39] themselves all the time so we just want to save time for the for the team,

[46:40] to save time for the for the team, right? So, I want to make sure the

[46:42] right? So, I want to make sure the runbook is updated. So, I write down the

[46:44] runbook is updated. So, I write down the new errors that appear. I fix the these

[46:47] new errors that appear. I fix the these errors so that they don't repeat

[46:48] errors so that they don't repeat themselves and and the system doesn't

[46:50] themselves and and the system doesn't become an bottleneck. And yes, I do read

[46:52] become an bottleneck. And yes, I do read the RAM book because it's important,

[46:54] the RAM book because it's important, right? What if what if um Exactly. I'm

[46:57] right? What if what if um Exactly. I'm on my own. It's 2 a.m. and I need to

[46:59] on my own. It's 2 a.m. and I need to actually know how to fix it. I first

[47:01] actually know how to fix it. I first thing I do is I go to the RAM book and I

[47:03] thing I do is I go to the RAM book and I read it.

[47:04] read it. >> That's ugly.

[47:04] >> That's ugly. >> So, they just want to know how how you

[47:06] >> So, they just want to know how how you work. Okay. Don't worry. about the about

[47:09] work. Okay. Don't worry. about the about the technical parts.

[47:11] the technical parts. Great. Uh okay, more questions. More

[47:14] Great. Uh okay, more questions. More questions. Yeah. So, last questions.

[47:16] questions. Yeah. So, last questions. Tell me now let's talk about product and

[47:19] Tell me now let's talk about product and teamwork. So, tell me about a time where

[47:22] teamwork. So, tell me about a time where you weren't sure about the requirements.

[47:25] you weren't sure about the requirements. How did you approach it? How did you

[47:27] How did you approach it? How did you make sure you understood what was meant

[47:29] make sure you understood what was meant to be built? Yeah. Well, uh what I like

[47:32] to be built? Yeah. Well, uh what I like to do uh most of the time uh to make

[47:35] to do uh most of the time uh to make sure that I understood that the the

[47:38] sure that I understood that the the requirements is to have to start every

[47:41] requirements is to have to start every requirement with a kickoff. Uh if I have

[47:45] requirement with a kickoff. Uh if I have the opportunity to to talk with the UX

[47:48] the opportunity to to talk with the UX if we are talking about a front end

[47:50] if we are talking about a front end change for example that's amazing. uh

[47:53] change for example that's amazing. uh also having the

[47:56] also having the business point of view of a business

[47:58] business point of view of a business anal analyst if we have this role in in

[48:01] anal analyst if we have this role in in the project and uh I previous to to the

[48:05] the project and uh I previous to to the to to this kind of meetings I prepare my

[48:08] to to this kind of meetings I prepare my questions in a notion and uh highlight

[48:12] questions in a notion and uh highlight all the points that I consider I need

[48:14] all the points that I consider I need more clarification and also after this

[48:19] more clarification and also after this during the development process I used to

[48:22] during the development process I used to take recordings or screenshots to to

[48:25] take recordings or screenshots to to send the the the people uh that that I

[48:29] send the the the people uh that that I know they they can give me feedback

[48:31] know they they can give me feedback about that quickly and not to wait for

[48:35] about that quickly and not to wait for for or have all the changes in an

[48:38] for or have all the changes in an environment because sometimes I have

[48:40] environment because sometimes I have work in in places where they don't have

[48:43] work in in places where they don't have pipelines they have to move the changes

[48:47] pipelines they have to move the changes manually and the feedback is going to be

[48:49] manually and the feedback is going to be very late. So

[48:52] very late. So >> in in those cases most it's most

[48:55] >> in in those cases most it's most important to have this

[48:58] important to have this quick quick fast ways to to get

[49:01] quick quick fast ways to to get feedback. Yes.

[49:02] feedback. Yes. >> Mhm. Interesting. And so for example,

[49:05] >> Mhm. Interesting. And so for example, let's say the product manager pushes you

[49:07] let's say the product manager pushes you and is rushing you but they don't

[49:09] and is rushing you but they don't understand what it means to build a

[49:10] understand what it means to build a feature. How would you appro approach

[49:12] feature. How would you appro approach the conversation? Have you ever faced

[49:14] the conversation? Have you ever faced these situations? How do you work with

[49:15] these situations? How do you work with product?

[49:16] product? >> Yeah. Well um in this case uh uh one

[49:22] >> Yeah. Well um in this case uh uh one thing that is common in those cases is

[49:24] thing that is common in those cases is that most of the time we are uh pending

[49:27] that most of the time we are uh pending technical depth and in those cases it's

[49:30] technical depth and in those cases it's very difficult to make them understand

[49:32] very difficult to make them understand that a very small fix that you can see

[49:36] that a very small fix that you can see very small from the business point of

[49:37] very small from the business point of view. But actually to to to

[49:43] do that in the in the base code is kind

[49:46] do that in the in the base code is kind of difficult because of this technical

[49:48] of difficult because of this technical depth. Uh I try to start uh from from an

[49:54] depth. Uh I try to start uh from from an with an analogy to make them understand

[49:57] with an analogy to make them understand what's happening with the base code to

[50:00] what's happening with the base code to and why why why we are in in in this

[50:03] and why why why we are in in in this state now. how we can avoid this in the

[50:06] state now. how we can avoid this in the in the near future and yeah it's it's a

[50:10] in the near future and yeah it's it's a it's a very challenging situation but

[50:12] it's a very challenging situation but also it's very common and that's why I

[50:15] also it's very common and that's why I developed some tools to handle it and

[50:18] developed some tools to handle it and what I try to maintain all the time is

[50:20] what I try to maintain all the time is like a a very simple language because uh

[50:25] like a a very simple language because uh sometimes the the business teams doesn't

[50:28] sometimes the the business teams doesn't uh handle the same technical language

[50:30] uh handle the same technical language like a developer

[50:32] like a developer >> perfect look in the job description One

[50:34] >> perfect look in the job description One of the key essential skills they ask is

[50:38] of the key essential skills they ask is comfortable collaborating with product

[50:39] comfortable collaborating with product and business stakeholders and

[50:41] and business stakeholders and translating needs into technical scope.

[50:43] translating needs into technical scope. So it's important that you think about

[50:45] So it's important that you think about this answer because they literally going

[50:47] this answer because they literally going to ask you about how to talk to product.

[50:49] to ask you about how to talk to product. And this is what Jordi told me by the

[50:51] And this is what Jordi told me by the way. This is what matters the most to

[50:52] way. This is what matters the most to them.

[50:58] >> Analogy analogy is perfect. So yeah.

[51:01] >> Analogy analogy is perfect. So yeah. Yeah. This one is important like if you

[51:04] Yeah. This one is important like if you mention it's important that you talk

[51:06] mention it's important that you talk about your leadership experience about

[51:08] about your leadership experience about you building the the whole life cycle of

[51:10] you building the the whole life cycle of a product and making product decisions

[51:11] a product and making product decisions making product decisions and translating

[51:13] making product decisions and translating business decision into tech. How do you

[51:16] business decision into tech. How do you translate that? This is what matters the

[51:18] translate that? This is what matters the most to them.

[51:22] >> I will be focus on looking for my

[51:25] >> I will be focus on looking for my experience on this.

[51:26] experience on this. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So a very quick

[51:30] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So a very quick uh key question and then I'll just ask

[51:31] uh key question and then I'll just ask you about the your motivation for this

[51:34] you about the your motivation for this role. How do you balance technical

[51:36] role. How do you balance technical quality and delivery speed because this

[51:39] quality and delivery speed because this is a common problem in tech right? How

[51:40] is a common problem in tech right? How do you handle that?

[51:44] do you handle that? Um,

[51:46] Um, one thing, the first thing is to from my

[51:49] one thing, the first thing is to from my point of view is to start with an MVP uh

[51:53] point of view is to start with an MVP uh uh to get uh faster feedback and then uh

[52:00] uh to get uh faster feedback and then uh we can think about what what is better

[52:04] we can think about what what is better from the technical point of view to add

[52:07] from the technical point of view to add to to the code base that we're handling

[52:09] to to the code base that we're handling because in with all these

[52:12] because in with all these inside work on understand better what

[52:14] inside work on understand better what the business needs and also

[52:18] the business needs and also uh I I cannot remember the question can

[52:21] uh I I cannot remember the question can you repeat that

[52:22] you repeat that >> how do you balance okay technical

[52:25] >> how do you balance okay technical delivery wait

[52:27] delivery wait >> yeah yeah I I remember

[52:28] >> yeah yeah I I remember >> yeah technical quality and delivery

[52:30] >> yeah technical quality and delivery speed yeah

[52:32] speed yeah >> it's it's common that you have to you

[52:36] >> it's it's common that you have to you have hard deadlines and at some point

[52:40] have hard deadlines and at some point you you have to decide that uh you're

[52:43] you you have to decide that uh you're going to take some I don't know how I

[52:46] going to take some I don't know how I don't know how to say atos but you're

[52:48] don't know how to say atos but you're going to take

[52:48] going to take >> shortcuts

[52:51] >> shortcuts >> shortcuts

[52:53] >> shortcuts >> but what what we should do in those

[52:56] >> but what what we should do in those cases is uh um to create the ticket to

[52:59] cases is uh um to create the ticket to leave all the details about what we are

[53:02] leave all the details about what we are avoiding to to approach uh in in this

[53:05] avoiding to to approach uh in in this moment and once the the critical

[53:09] moment and once the the critical deadline is is is is

[53:12] deadline is is is is passed and we deliver all the

[53:15] passed and we deliver all the functionalities. Uh we are going to take

[53:18] functionalities. Uh we are going to take this ticket. We're going to uh pay

[53:21] this ticket. We're going to uh pay attention to all the bullet points that

[53:22] attention to all the bullet points that we left there to to leave the base code

[53:25] we left there to to leave the base code in a in in a

[53:28] in a in in a maintain in a better state that could be

[53:31] maintain in a better state that could be maintainable.

[53:32] maintainable. >> Mhm. Okay. Good. And then this question

[53:35] >> Mhm. Okay. Good. And then this question is really important because it literally

[53:37] is really important because it literally describes how you think, right? how you

[53:39] describes how you think, right? how you approach building software because this

[53:41] approach building software because this is our job our job is managing timelines

[53:44] is our job our job is managing timelines with quality like right you feel like

[53:47] with quality like right you feel like sometimes it's a chaos so important and

[53:49] sometimes it's a chaos so important and here what I would say is like that you

[53:51] here what I would say is like that you just describe that you try to be

[53:52] just describe that you try to be pragmatic and you and that you make sure

[53:55] pragmatic and you and that you make sure that everyone is on the same page so I

[53:58] that everyone is on the same page so I handle communication on a daily basis

[54:00] handle communication on a daily basis and you need to even though we all like

[54:02] and you need to even though we all like to work as synchronously and we don't

[54:04] to work as synchronously and we don't like meetings you need to say that you

[54:06] like meetings you need to say that you do like meetings it's important like try

[54:09] do like meetings it's important like try to fake it like try to say yeah yeah

[54:10] to fake it like try to say yeah yeah yeah I love to communicate every day

[54:12] yeah I love to communicate every day because everyone needs to be in the same

[54:13] because everyone needs to be in the same page I make sure they all understand

[54:16] page I make sure they all understand what's need and that they understand

[54:17] what's need and that they understand what the timelines are going to be so I

[54:20] what the timelines are going to be so I make sure I talk to the product manager

[54:21] make sure I talk to the product manager every single day in the daily meetings

[54:23] every single day in the daily meetings and I stay as long as I need because

[54:25] and I stay as long as I need because they need to understand what is

[54:26] they need to understand what is necessary because otherwise we're going

[54:28] necessary because otherwise we're going to have a future problem so I make sure

[54:30] to have a future problem so I make sure I explain listen I can't handle this in

[54:33] I explain listen I can't handle this in two weeks or if it needs to be done okay

[54:35] two weeks or if it needs to be done okay I'm going to need to take a shortcut and

[54:38] I'm going to need to take a shortcut and build like a specific fix for you to

[54:40] build like a specific fix for you to demo the product. But this is not the

[54:42] demo the product. But this is not the long-term fix. It's just something for

[54:43] long-term fix. It's just something for you to be able to demo. Then we need to

[54:45] you to be able to demo. Then we need to handle the technical implementation. So

[54:47] handle the technical implementation. So I just make sure the product manager

[54:49] I just make sure the product manager understands. I educate product because

[54:51] understands. I educate product because they need to understand. They need to

[54:53] they need to understand. They need to understand because they're going to work

[54:54] understand because they're going to work with us all the time. So yes, I try to

[54:57] with us all the time. So yes, I try to balance it. To be honest with you, this

[54:59] balance it. To be honest with you, this is a challenge that all of us have. It's

[55:01] is a challenge that all of us have. It's part of our job. But I make sure

[55:03] part of our job. But I make sure everyone is on the same page. I make

[55:05] everyone is on the same page. I make sure I communicate every day. Just say

[55:08] sure I communicate every day. Just say that you love communicating like they

[55:10] that you love communicating like they they they look for it.

[55:12] they they look for it. >> Amazing. What what if I I mention that

[55:16] >> Amazing. What what if I I mention that >> depending on the kind of information

[55:18] >> depending on the kind of information that I have to communicate, I decide

[55:20] that I have to communicate, I decide what channel is better like not all the

[55:22] what channel is better like not all the time we need meetings. Sometimes we have

[55:24] time we need meetings. Sometimes we have a a specific chat where I know all the

[55:27] a a specific chat where I know all the people that is involved is there. So I'm

[55:30] people that is involved is there. So I'm going and maybe we decided that we're

[55:32] going and maybe we decided that we're going to communicate there just critical

[55:34] going to communicate there just critical things. Um, is that valuable or you

[55:36] things. Um, is that valuable or you think that all the time we should use

[55:38] think that all the time we should use medians or

[55:39] medians or >> it is val valuable but they might say

[55:41] >> it is val valuable but they might say yes but listen everyone is so busy this

[55:43] yes but listen everyone is so busy this company right now we're so busy we're

[55:45] company right now we're so busy we're scaling honestly people can't read the

[55:48] scaling honestly people can't read the messages they need to go to a meeting so

[55:50] messages they need to go to a meeting so how do you make sure like you know they

[55:52] how do you make sure like you know they will tell you they will tell you like

[55:54] will tell you they will tell you like they will say no no this is is horrible

[55:56] they will say no no this is is horrible because it's so messy whatever it

[55:58] because it's so messy whatever it depends yeah okay and so just to finish

[56:03] depends yeah okay and so just to finish um have you ever mentored some junior

[56:05] um have you ever mentored some junior engineers.

[56:06] engineers. >> Yes, of course. I I

[56:11] >> Yes, of course. I I follow up the the career path for a

[56:14] follow up the the career path for a couple of of coaches and that's that's a

[56:18] couple of of coaches and that's that's a a very learning path for me to how to to

[56:21] a very learning path for me to how to to help someone else to to grow up in in

[56:24] help someone else to to grow up in in their career. And yeah, basically there

[56:28] their career. And yeah, basically there what we use is to define uh what are

[56:32] what we use is to define uh what are their motivations?

[56:34] their motivations? How do you see them in the near future

[56:37] How do you see them in the near future if they want to change the role for

[56:39] if they want to change the role for example? uh we start uh mapping all the

[56:43] example? uh we start uh mapping all the abilities that they are missing to to

[56:47] abilities that they are missing to to make possible this change and uh we

[56:51] make possible this change and uh we start looking for uh resources uh to to

[56:56] start looking for uh resources uh to to start learning these skills if that is

[56:58] start learning these skills if that is the case. Sometimes the the like the

[57:03] the case. Sometimes the the like the need is not

[57:05] need is not that it's not a technical one like this

[57:07] that it's not a technical one like this one but it's sometimes it's like the

[57:10] one but it's sometimes it's like the people is is not feeling well in the

[57:13] people is is not feeling well in the project where they are contributing. So

[57:16] project where they are contributing. So uh we start some

[57:19] uh we start some difficult conversations like

[57:21] difficult conversations like understanding what's the what's the

[57:24] understanding what's the what's the reason if it's something that we can

[57:26] reason if it's something that we can handle inside the project or if

[57:28] handle inside the project or if definitely not uh we think how to start

[57:32] definitely not uh we think how to start this conversation with with a staffing

[57:34] this conversation with with a staffing team to to make this change to another

[57:38] team to to make this change to another project but most of the time what what

[57:40] project but most of the time what what we I was in a consulting company for for

[57:44] we I was in a consulting company for for a long time so what what we tried was to

[57:47] a long time so what what we tried was to solve this in the same environment

[57:49] solve this in the same environment because uh what we have to learn one of

[57:52] because uh what we have to learn one of the things is that we have to be

[57:55] the things is that we have to be resilient because not all the time we're

[57:57] resilient because not all the time we're going to have like the perfect situation

[57:58] going to have like the perfect situation to be so

[58:01] to be so >> all right and so why flock why this role

[58:05] >> all right and so why flock why this role >> well um uh um

[58:09] >> well um uh um I I would say that is a a very

[58:11] I I would say that is a a very challenged kind of business I have

[58:15] challenged kind of business I have worked specifically with insurance fleet

[58:17] worked specifically with insurance fleet but at the same time the way the the way

[58:22] but at the same time the way the the way I think flock is impacting on the

[58:24] I think flock is impacting on the society uh it makes me feel like very

[58:29] society uh it makes me feel like very motivated to be part of this team

[58:32] motivated to be part of this team because I think I can contribute with um

[58:36] because I think I can contribute with um my experience not just the technical one

[58:38] my experience not just the technical one but also the collaboration skills that I

[58:41] but also the collaboration skills that I have and yeah it's like uh uh win-win.

[58:46] have and yeah it's like uh uh win-win. I'm I'm going to learn from your uh

[58:49] I'm I'm going to learn from your uh business because it's something new for

[58:51] business because it's something new for me. Uh but but also I can contribute

[58:55] me. Uh but but also I can contribute with you with all the experience that I

[58:57] with you with all the experience that I just have told you

[58:59] just have told you >> and what about what I said about London

[59:01] >> and what about what I said about London and like the and product and and and

[59:04] and like the and product and and and also say listen I love the culture that

[59:07] also say listen I love the culture that you have because I read your blog super

[59:09] you have because I read your blog super cool and I also see that you work with

[59:10] cool and I also see that you work with AI you work with AI and product and I'm

[59:13] AI you work with AI and product and I'm super interested honestly in working in

[59:15] super interested honestly in working in a product environment I particularly

[59:16] a product environment I particularly like London because this has been a

[59:18] like London because this has been a dream of mine for ages so I really

[59:21] dream of mine for ages so I really really interested

[59:22] really interested Yeah.

[59:23] Yeah. >> Okay.

[59:26] >> Okay. >> Sure to add it.

[59:27] >> Sure to add it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Be transparent. Don't like

[59:29] >> Yeah. Yeah. Be transparent. Don't like people want to work with people. Don't

[59:31] people want to work with people. Don't worry too much. Like trust me. Yeah.

[59:33] worry too much. Like trust me. Yeah. Yeah.

[59:33] Yeah. >> Amazing. Amazing.

[59:35] >> Amazing. Amazing. >> Okay.