# It's Never Just an Asset, Luxe Visionaries Vol. II

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc0mtTwx_fw

[00:01] [music]
[00:21] Hello everyone.
[00:21] Welcome to a new episode of Lux Visionaries, the podcast sponsored by Lux and Lux.
[00:28] My name is Rebecca Gabbay and I am vice president of the company.
[00:33] And as you know from the previous episodes, I have two amazing partners for this series, Lux and Lux and San Lorenzo Matt.
[00:41] Lux and Lux represented by Professor Dr. Phil Klaus, our head of insights, and the San Lorenzo Matt team that allowed us to experience this amazing lounge to record our episodes.
[00:54] So today we did decide to focus on a very specific niche, which is never just an asset.
[01:00] And we did decide to invite three amazing guests, all
[01:04] Representing different segments of the luxury industry.
[01:07] We have yachting, we have private aviation, and we have automotive.
[01:11] So starting from my right, we have Frederick D'or Moi, the COO of Hill Robinson Group.
[01:16] We have Dominique Trinque, the president of Woodson Aviation.
[01:22] And then Camilo Mecager Vogel, who's the CEO and founding partner of Asset Classic.
[01:31] And as you see, it's an amazing lineup and they can really bring us to the behind the scenes of the luxury industry.
[01:38] It's a very specific one because every asset comes with a lot of responsibilities and a big infrastructure.
[01:46] So this episode specifically will try to really investigate the sets and the networks around the ultra high net worth individuals that can eventually enjoy the assets.
[01:59] So, I want to start with understanding your role within this network, and we will start with Professor Klaus.
[02:05] Saying it's never just an asset actually implies that there's a study of the ultra-high-net-worth individuals, and we can say that it's never just an asset because we kind of know what's behind that.
[02:19] So, can you elaborate on this?
[02:22] Because the title actually was given by one of our clients that we interviewed, that came to us and said, "Well, it's actually never just an asset. It's a big mess."
[02:31] So, what's your point on that?
[02:34] Uh, my point is always driven by scientific evidence.
[02:36] So, I said, "Don't kill the messenger. It's just what we present, the data and the insights coming out of it."
[02:45] It's not just an asset because first we have to define what is an asset.
[02:48] Most people look at asset as something tangible, meaning something we can hold, we can touch.
[02:53] Be it be a private airplane, be it be a super yacht, be it be a beautiful old Ferrari or whatever it might be.
[03:04] But in this case, when we talk to ultra-high-net-worth individual, they...
[03:07] Say asset is not what's really describing it.
[03:09] It's what they perceive.
[03:13] And what they perceive is value.
[03:17] So, an asset in a way, it's just a facilitator, a mediator between what we believe it is, and what they're actually after.
[03:26] And what they're after is value.
[03:29] And the assets that you describe, and that you are responsible for, are just a vehicle to receive the kind of gratitude that they want to get with it, uh the value.
[03:41] Because speaking with over 300 and 400 of ultra-high-net-worth individuals, when I asked them, "What's their greatest asset, or what brings them the best value?
[03:53] It's not a super yacht.
[03:57] It's not a classic car.
[04:00] It's not a private plane, a Challenger, or whatsoever.
[04:04] It's time.
[04:04] Time is the most valuable asset for
[04:07] So, in a way, all three of you, and I know you're great examples, you also can demonstrate how you value the time of your clients.
[04:17] Because what they don't want, and what happens in this ultra-high-net-worth ecosystem quite a lot, is the waste of time.
[04:26] And that's even more prevalent when we look at the next generation of ultra-high-net-worth individuals, which have different values.
[04:38] So, unlike the wealth, I would say the trillion-dollar shift in 2030, when all the money goes to the next generation, meaning, for example, millennials will hold in 4 years five times the money on average that they hold today.
[04:54] That means for them, unlike the money, values are not inherited.
[04:56] So, they value different things, and that's something that we need to address working on them, because our old clients perceived one value, now we have to adjust to the new.
[05:10] Values, which is a challenge, but I'm sure these three gentlemen can tell us a word or two about how to address that.
[05:18] Yeah, they definitely can elaborate.
[05:20] So, Frederick, my first question is for you.
[05:22] Do you agree with what he just said?
[05:25] He's a professor, so I'm always going to agree with professor.
[05:28] I think I do agree, because the reality is the people at that level, they can have anything they want, but time you can't buy.
[05:36] I think there was a movie done on that, having a life on time, and it would deplete depending on what you're up to.
[05:40] So, I think it is, and I think it's for us to make sure that the time they have can be spent on the assets they have.
[05:45] In our case, super yachts, it's probably within the asset category.
[05:49] Planes take you from A to B very quickly.
[05:51] Cars the enjoyment factor.
[05:53] When you look at the superyacht, there's a lot of time spent on board.
[05:56] Either side of that, we need to make sure that things are done so that when it's ready, when the client says, "I need to go on, I want to go on.
[06:03] Can I go on and have the time, but enjoy the time?
[06:06] Not just go on and go, "My god, there's a problem.
[06:08] That should have been organized.
[06:09] Why wasn't that done?"
[06:10] The time frame that we've got on either side of the asset not being enjoyed is critical.
[06:14] So, when they do come on, that really is enjoyable time for them.
[06:16] So, yes, I do agree.
[06:18] Not just because you're a professor, but I really do agree.
[06:19] [laughter]
[06:20] I take it either way.
[06:24] And do [snorts] you see this shift that he was mentioning about the new generation?
[06:28] Massively.
[06:29] Massively.
[06:30] We're seeing, I think, from a wealth perspective, it going to the younger younger gurus who are amassing a fortune that in their heyday was with the older generation.
[06:39] So, we have a bit of both.
[06:40] I think we're in this crossover phase of still handling the older generation who might be passing their wealth to the youthful people in their sort of own families.
[06:48] But secondly, you're seeing this very fast rise.
[06:49] And handling them and understanding them, they're new to yachting.
[06:53] We're seeing first-time buyers buying 40-50 meter vessels.
[06:57] But hang on, first you would start with your Riva, then you'd get a little bit bigger with your Sunseeker, then you play through perhaps like the car market, you have your Minis, then you move to BMWs, then you get up.
[07:06] We're seeing people coming in going, "I have the amount of money straight into the 50-meter place."
[07:09] But they're coming in with naivety that
[07:11] We're having to also express and teach and guide because their their viewpoint on what is right or shouldn't that be done that way.
[07:16] Hang on a second, you haven't been in yachting.
[07:18] This is yachting.
[07:18] This is how it works.
[07:20] So, I'm seeing the shift, and it's I wouldn't say it's tough, but we have to adapt.
[07:23] We have to look and I try and understand it.
[07:26] And that I think that comes through also the people we have in the teams.
[07:28] When we have the younger people who are talking, I have no idea what Gen Z I am.
[07:32] I have no idea.
[07:33] Born in the '80s, that's all I can tell you.
[07:35] But it's nice to see the harmony of our youthful employees who are bringing to the table this kind of source that me at my age of being 46 is is almost struggling to capture.
[07:43] So, it's a different beast and we've got to be on top of it, yeah.
[07:45] Absolutely.
[07:48] And Dominique, what about you?
[07:50] Um these shifts, is it happening in private aviation as well?
[07:53] Definitely.
[07:54] And just going back to the first appraisal, and Professor, you said the right thing.
[07:59] You said time.
[07:59] I mean you're selling pleasure time.
[08:00] I'm selling business time.
[08:02] I mean, that's what we're selling at the end, you know.
[08:05] I think over the years we sold more than 400 aircraft with business aviation.
[08:09] I never sold an aircraft just to look.
[08:11] Nice, just to be having his own jet, you know.
[08:14] That does not exist.
[08:16] The guy buy an aircraft just for one thing.
[08:19] Fly, save time, and make money out of it.
[08:22] Of course, they use it for maybe 10% of the activity for their own needs, you know, but 90% of the time it's just for business purposes.
[08:29] Never sold an aircraft to someone who said I want to fly there just to to travel, see my kids, or going somewhere.
[08:35] Always was business orientation.
[08:37] And that's the key point I just said on the from the beginning.
[08:41] And back to the new generation customers and as you said, I'm from the '80s, you know.
[08:46] Even they show it.
[08:47] [laughter]
[08:48] From the '80s.
[08:49] But technically, I mean, I want you guys to be steady.
[08:51] It's it's amazing.
[08:52] As you said, they come straight to us.
[08:54] They have no clue about aviation.
[08:56] We have to educate them.
[08:58] You have to We have to drive them.
[09:00] It's very specific activity we're doing.
[09:02] I mean not only from you, but from aviation.
[09:04] We're not selling something you you go, you buy it, and it's done, you know.
[09:07] It's not It's not the way it goes.
[09:09] You have to go through a huge process, uh which is from
[09:12] From a, I would say, evaluation of their needs,
[09:15] Um, market trend,
[09:17] Uh, transaction-wise, meaning contract size.
[09:20] We have to deal with a lot of lawyers.
[09:23] I love lawyers, for sure.
[09:25] Not all the time.
[09:25] [snorts]
[09:26] We have to deal with bankers.
[09:27] Uh, we have to do, to deal with the maintenance side, which is huge in our industry, I mean.
[09:32] We're from a, we're lucky.
[09:34] We're from an industry where it's black or white.
[09:35] There's no gray side, you know, which is great because of aviation.
[09:40] And at the end, these guys we will support them just to bring them to get what they want.
[09:48] And the new generation, as you said, maybe the 35-year-old, 40-year-old, much younger than me.
[09:52] They make so much money from their business activity.
[09:56] And then they reach to new world.
[09:58] They reach to something that will help them to develop their activities or to help them to enjoy the time.
[10:04] Or sometimes, uh, not going to your market trend, but I have friends who bought a nice yacht just to do business, just to bring the guys.
[10:11] Okay, they would.
[10:13] Charter it.
[10:15] They would just get your people around and just to do business as well.
[10:19] So, our activity joining at some points.
[10:20] So, the new generation, yes, we have to deal with them.
[10:24] Uh, they're here.
[10:26] They're very — look at Monaco.
[10:26] I mean, yes.
[10:27] Yeah, new billionaires coming on a daily basis, you know, and they need this.
[10:30] They need this travel tool.
[10:33] They need this pleasure tool.
[10:35] And of course, they need something to drive them inside, which are for sure nice cars around you.
[10:40] Absolutely.
[10:42] And I think it's very interesting that you are mentioning the fact that you're almost becoming some sort of advisers, 'cause it's never just the transaction itself.
[10:52] You know, you are there — present myself Rebecca as a sales guy.
[10:56] Definitely not.
[10:58] No, I'm just supporting things, you know.
[11:01] We're selling support.
[11:03] And that's it, you know, it's not because you're in Monaco with a nice smile or whatever.
[11:07] It's not the job.
[11:08] It's not commercial job.
[11:10] It's just to support your clients from A to Z.
[11:12] That's it.
[11:14] Most of the time we have a buyer and a seller and just to get both parties happy.
[11:17] Of course.
[11:18] Of course.
[11:18] And in the automotive field, is it the same?
[11:25] Like your role, are you an adviser or is there a different angle to it?
[11:30] So, I guess as is the case in the other industries, people want to interact with a trusted partner.
[11:42] Especially the higher up you go in luxury, the more your client is by definition someone experienced, intelligent, who's seen it, done there.
[11:57] So, I think it's really a false myth the wild north the wealthy to whom you sell whatever.
[12:03] If anything to the contrary, they first want to ensure you are a trusted partner, someone they actually also enjoy spending time with, and then the transaction is a
[12:15] consequence.
[12:18] And it's a consequence of a long-term relationship in which um you earn the trust, and accordingly you also earn the business.
[12:28] That said, I was reflecting as you were discussing time.
[12:31] Think classic cars have an interesting connotation um of some of the time you spend with them being in the traditional perspective a waste of time, but the challenge is to transform the time into something people appreciate.
[12:54] So, for instance, the maintenance, the small traditions, prepping your car, checking the fluids every day.
[13:03] It is something which perhaps in aviation your client definitely wouldn't want to check the fluids of their airplane basis.
[13:08] They'd be very worried if you [laughter] didn't come and check the fluids on them.
[13:11] You need to check the fluids and make sure it's a
[13:14] It has to be a uh
[13:14] Probably in the yachting world, it's
[13:16] Very different if you're looking at the sailor or a motor yacht customer.
[13:21] So, there you might have on the sailors more of a classic car-like approach.
[13:27] In the classic car space, it's a lot about really educating them that once in a while doing the humble job of a mechanic is precious time you dedicate to yourself.
[13:37] And that said, we are also facing an extremely relevant impact from the generational shift.
[13:46] So, the younger customers must be educated to this because unlike the previous generation which learned how to drive on cars where you had to check the levels on a fairly regular base, they were raised driving cars which are perfect and so it takes some time to explain.
[14:07] Yeah.
[14:08] And also there is something very interesting happening in terms of what is perceived as a valuable good.
[14:15] I think
[14:19] The best example is probably the Ferrari F40, which is an iconic model, one which has risen a lot in value.
[14:28] But which the previous generation wouldn't have necessarily considered a high-end collectible model because it has a V8 engine instead of Ferrari's traditional V12, because they built 1,300 of them.
[14:47] So, by traditional perspectives, the important Ferraris were typically built in the dozens, not in the hundreds, definitely not over 1,000.
[15:00] But these days you have so many ultra-high net worth individuals for whom the supercar was the F40 when they were younger, that now the 1,300 available are actually a very limited number versus the market demand you get.
[15:20] I see.
[15:20] Is not the educational factor as well when you said the younger generation don't see that as a valued asset.
[15:25] It's also the education of educating the next GZ.
[15:30] Whatever.
[15:31] Whatever.
[15:33] Coming through to say actually this is this does have value.
[15:35] Let me explain why it's got value.
[15:37] A bit like again when we're educating on our side, let let us take you through this investment you're about to make in terms of its size, its preoccupations, it's you know we always talk about the fun parts.
[15:46] And tinkering on a yacht very difficult, but you've got to be truthful with them to say listen this is this is not only of pleasure but it has to go in and out of the water.
[15:55] There is a lot of people on board that you employ.
[15:57] You've got to get that right for your ambiance of you know enjoying your time in and around a very small area zone where people you don't necessarily know very well.
[16:05] So I think it's you know for us on the education but on our side is the after and the before.
[16:09] It's a huge amount that takes place but there will have to be a huge amount afterwards.
[16:14] Are you prepared?
[16:16] Is your family office prepared to take on that role that that sort of challenge because it is a big challenge?
[16:20] Especially if you're getting on the bigger boats.
[16:22] But if I may add on top, you know, our two industries — I mean, two industries are on top of it.
[16:27] You're dealing with two industries dealing with human factors.
[16:31] I mean, I love my yacht.
[16:33] I love the care.
[16:34] I'm passionate of it, you know.
[16:36] It's really — you have to deal with that.
[16:38] And of course, you have to support all the transaction process and educate them and, as you say, the family office being trained for the crew and everything.
[16:46] Aviation is slightly different.
[16:48] I mean, we've been selling a craft to guys — huge amount — never saw the aircraft.
[16:54] They don't care.
[16:56] No, it's just, "My tool will be coming soon.
[16:59] I'm going to take delivery, and that's it."
[17:01] So I don't have to deal with — it's blue, white, whatever, you know.
[17:04] Sometimes the colors — there's no emotion.
[17:06] No, no emotion.
[17:08] That's the difference between our two industries.
[17:10] And you deal a lot with passion from your side, from guys, you know.
[17:12] You don't have only guys who want to make a valuable purchase or an asset, you know.
[17:16] And you're dealing with people say, "I love it.
[17:18] I can afford it.
[17:19] That's what I want."
[17:19] Yeah, definitely.
[17:21] And I think it's, it's —
[17:22] Very nice to see that from one side,
[17:25] You're there to take the pain away from the experience,
[17:29] But you are trying to change the narrative and be like, "The pain of checking the levels, something I could never do, uh is actually something valuable that you will enjoy and gives value to what you're doing."
[17:42] The gentleman talk a lot about education.
[17:44] And as an educator, I know education is nothing we embrace.
[17:50] It's something normally we need to do in order to get somewhere.
[17:54] And one thing I see that ultra-high-net-worth individuals do not want to be educated,
[18:02] But what they want is what we call edutainment,
[18:05] Mhm.
[18:06] Meaning entertainment in combination with education.
[18:10] We work with a company that was traditionally serving ultra-high-net-worth and high-net-worth individuals through intermediary.
[18:20] So, they never knew who their end client
[18:22] was because they sell to resellers and gastronomy.
[18:26] So, they never knew it, but we told them you need to go back and get control.
[18:32] They're like, "How can we control this client experience?"
[18:36] And one thing we then told them and they immediately said, "We need to educate them."
[18:42] I said, "Education, forcing education will have exactly the opposite effect."
[18:49] What you can do is you offer education, but as an experience.
[18:55] And when you combine it in an experience, people are more open-minded towards it.
[19:01] And they don't see it as education because they perceive they're in control, rather than, "Oh, let me tell you about this, this, and this."
[19:11] And we have some um industries represented here who talk in terms that, uh, an owner of customer wouldn't even understand.
[19:18] And like, what the hell is cross edge tons?
[19:20] Can you not just
[19:23] Tell me how many square meters I have?
[19:25] And what is that, you know?
[19:28] It's, um, it has this kind of consumption or it's that fast.
[19:33] How quick it is it to get for me from London to New York?
[19:35] Can you tell me these things?
[19:38] Or how much time do I need to invest to get it to that point?
[19:40] So, I believe as an industry in itself, all industry need to learn to be more receptive and more open-minded to show the capabilities and then let the client decide.
[19:56] That's one thing I learned throughout my time, through 26 years of research, is never assume what your client wants.
[20:03] Just ask and they will tell you.
[20:06] So, I believe there's a great combination there when you put it into an experience where they learn interactive and enjoying it.
[20:16] Such as, um, I saw some people have, um, they always ask you with cars, go on the track.
[20:22] Yeah, how many people really want to go?
[20:24] on the track? Yeah, some people will do,
[20:26] but they're like, would you like to
[20:28] learn how your car actually works? Go in
[20:30] the garage with me and I tell you what's
[20:33] actually happening. You will find these
[20:35] are completely different people. But by
[20:37] saying we only have a track and not the
[20:39] other thing, we're going to leave people
[20:42] out, so we need to be more, how shall I
[20:44] say, exploratory
[20:46] and find out what does it actually mean
[20:49] for you education. What would you like
[20:51] to learn?
[20:52] The protect, not educate them. It's just
[20:54] to protect them. Yeah, absolutely. Just
[20:56] to protect them.
[20:57] Uh, you know,
[20:59] no one can buy such type of asset
[21:01] like this, you know, or if they do it,
[21:03] they will remember it remember it
[21:04] forever. I mean, we don't want to lose
[21:06] our clients on top of it, you know, we
[21:08] we don't want them to be after 3 years
[21:09] they cost me so much money and the the
[21:11] the pedigree, the maintenance was not
[21:13] good, etc. Yeah. So, just get it sold
[21:15] for aviation.
[21:17] Same with your two different clients.
[21:18] Yeah, and I think your asset class is
[21:19] very interesting because there's a real
[21:20] connection point with the client. It's
[21:22] client driving, it's hand behind.
[21:24] Sometimes in our case we don't
[21:25] necessarily deal with the client, we're
[21:26] dealing with the family offices, we're
[21:27] dealing with the person who's closest to
[21:29] the client and who want So, when we say
[21:31] educate as well or protect, it's
[21:32] actually protecting the client through
[21:34] the mechanism of trust who they've put
[21:36] in place to sort of say, "Listen, not a
[21:38] great idea." "Yes, but he wants to."
[21:40] "I appreciate he wants to, but the
[21:41] reason why we wouldn't advise it is
[21:43] perhaps, you know, that's then for them
[21:45] to go and sell that concept back up to
[21:47] the client to say, "Listen, that idea
[21:48] was great, but just to give you an
[21:50] understanding as to why we might be
[21:51] thinking that might not be possible." I
[21:52] give you an example, we have a a client
[21:54] at the moment, brand new, first time
[21:55] boat,
[21:56] very big boat,
[21:58] wants a whole name change.
[22:00] Now, in theory that's okay, but we it's
[22:01] currently called this, what would you
[22:02] like it to be called? And the reality is
[22:05] on the current vessel everything is
[22:07] embroidered or embedded with the name
[22:09] the name of the boat. The marble on the
[22:10] floors and the bathroom, everything has
[22:12] got this current name. So, when we go
[22:14] through, no problem on name change, it's
[22:16] out of the water again, we've got to put
[22:18] it into a yard, all the towels, all the
[22:21] things, everything has to be changed.
[22:24] Eventually that goes up, would you or
[22:25] won't you for them to decide, but at
[22:27] least they are being protected in the
[22:28] understanding of what that means because
[22:30] from their standpoint they're very
[22:31] educated, they know their thing. I want
[22:33] the name change, I can change my name,
[22:35] why can't I? It's not that you can't,
[22:37] but this is what we would need to do in
[22:38] order for that to happen, which means
[22:40] you're not going to be able to go here
[22:41] for the week that you want to go. So, I
[22:42] think I like that word protect.
[22:44] Yeah.
[22:45] And do you have people coming to you
[22:48] asking for something that they want and
[22:51] you suggest a model that might
[22:54] be the best fit for them, or do they
[22:56] come to you and just say, "I want that
[22:58] because I like it and I want that and
[23:01] that's it.
[23:03] So, typically people have an idea.
[23:10] Then once in a while they're open-minded
[23:12] enough to consider something else.
[23:15] Based upon the experience
[23:20] you managed to offer them.
[23:22] So, a challenge I suppose with all three
[23:26] of our areas is it is quite complicated
[23:30] to offer an actual first-hand
[23:32] experience.
[23:33] So, a friend who wants a Ferrari F50
[23:39] I know given his profile it wouldn't
[23:44] really be the right car for him.
[23:46] Point is it's not that easy for me to
[23:49] persuade another friend who's got one of
[23:51] those to let him drive it.
[23:52] Of course.
[23:53] So, he can understand. So,
[23:56] it really depends. Once again, it goes
[23:58] back to the relationship you develop
[24:00] with someone and how you manage to
[24:02] influence them. At the same time, also
[24:04] what's interesting is
[24:09] by effectively having them try
[24:12] something, you can also lose a sale, but
[24:14] you earn a customer. That has happened
[24:16] to me. I really care about
[24:20] ensuring people are happy with what they
[24:23] buy.
[24:24] It has caused quite some short-term
[24:27] damage to my business, but it's
[24:30] generated great long-term goodwill. So,
[24:33] once I was selling a Ferrari Testarossa,
[24:37] 150 to 200k,
[24:39] I really wanted the person to try it out
[24:41] because he'd never owned
[24:44] a manual Ferrari.
[24:46] Okay.
[24:46] We went for a ride and he was like,
[24:49] "Hey, the thing is
[24:51] horrible. I like pedals. I want an Enzo
[24:56] because that's got paddle shifts. And
[24:58] like back then answers were a little
[25:00] more approachable, but still we were
[25:02] speaking of 4 million instead of
[25:04] 200,000. I'm like, "Okay, you're looking
[25:06] at a slightly different budget." Okay,
[25:08] but that's not the issue. So,
[25:10] [laughter]
[25:10] there are opportunities and challenges
[25:14] in it. It's always a fine line. There is
[25:17] also point back to my earlier point
[25:19] typically who can afford these goods
[25:22] will have been extremely successful in
[25:24] life and business and so on. So, they
[25:27] also tend to be very sure about
[25:30] themselves
[25:31] to the point the gentleman were making
[25:34] about protection. So, I might not have
[25:39] been as successful as you in business,
[25:42] but I really know my cars. So, perhaps
[25:46] it's worth telling you stop for a
[25:48] second, consider that I might know what
[25:51] I'm talking about when I tell you this
[25:53] isn't the thing for you and you should
[25:56] rather go for something else.
[25:57] Because I'm protecting you after all.
[25:59] Like better you better say that no deal
[26:02] is a bad deal at the end.
[26:04] It's very difficult because we're not
[26:06] philanthropic on yourself. Philanthropic
[26:08] Philanthropic
[26:08] Philanthropic
[26:09] We're here to play the game and company
[26:11] to run etc. you know.
[26:12] Yes, of course.
[26:13] But it's very difficult to say no rather
[26:15] to say yes in our in our business
[26:17] industry.
[26:19] It's more complex to to to speaking to
[26:21] this kind of people you know telling
[26:22] them no. It's something you
[26:23] It's not amusing to them.
[26:25] I think
[26:26] that you were touring and then they
[26:27] would say, "Why? It's just a question of
[26:28] money." No, when you sell a Testarossa,
[26:30] you don't explain that they would need a
[26:31] new knee joint after
[26:33] [laughter]
[26:36] So, that's why
[26:38] So, the old generation coming and all
[26:40] this stuff.
[26:41] Presenting and educating
[26:43] That's another interesting point. I
[26:45] think we must always ensure we don't
[26:47] take it a notch too far because of
[26:49] course I have such an insane burning
[26:52] passion for classic cars.
[26:55] To me, they are life there. And I
[26:58] actually was raised like I started
[27:00] driving when I was eight. I started
[27:02] driving manuals when I was 12 with
[27:05] classic cars. So, to me it's
[27:07] supernatural. And we were recently in a
[27:08] conversation with a manufacturer
[27:11] of sports cars and we're like, "Yeah,
[27:14] our history is a bit complicated. Our
[27:17] cars are known to be difficult to
[27:19] drive." And I Who is the fool who
[27:20] doesn't manage to drive your cars? And
[27:23] my colleague was, "Okay, guys, speaking
[27:25] to Camillo about classic cars is like
[27:28] taking up a conversation with a
[27:29] terrorist. It is extreme." So, I once in
[27:32] a while have to remind myself to take a
[27:34] step back and actually embrace the view
[27:37] of the average person.
[27:44] Exactly. It's my deal.
[27:48] Even if I prefer the 512
[27:51] compared to the Testarossa. But I think
[27:53] one theme that I hear from all three of
[27:55] you is the importance of managing
[27:58] expectations
[28:00] for all the clients. And I believe this
[28:02] is also it's the M in the map of
[28:04] frameworks. So, where it all starts and
[28:06] I believe you're doing all with this
[28:08] example a very good job when it because
[28:11] if you don't manage or explore what
[28:13] expectations our clients have for we
[28:16] assume we had this conversation before.
[28:19] We're going in the wrong direction. I
[28:21] believe it's very encouraging to hear
[28:23] that you guys are taking that so
[28:25] seriously because it's
[28:27] it's the exception rather than the rule
[28:30] in your field. And this is probably why
[28:32] you're here, too.
[28:33] Technically, we're service providers.
[28:36] That's my my key job.
[28:37] Very good. We serve.
[28:40] That's that's what we we get the money
[28:42] at the end, you know.
[28:43] You never want a client at the end
[28:45] saying you didn't tell me about this
[28:46] part. You knew about it. You were
[28:48] managing it. You didn't tell me about
[28:50] it. I'm now disappointed."
[28:51] Whereas, I think if you go clear and you
[28:53] just say, "You know, and again, it's
[28:54] it's it's an asset that we want to
[28:55] enjoy. These are the reality of
[28:56] ownership."
[28:57] I mean, as Dominic said so correctly, he
[29:00] said we need to say no.
[29:02] And one thing our research clearly
[29:04] points out that the ultra high net worth
[29:05] individual, there's not a single one who
[29:08] says, "Oh, I wish they would have said
[29:10] less no." They said, "I wish I could
[29:13] have heard the no a little bit more
[29:15] often."
[29:16] I used to say yes when I was much
[29:17] younger. Now, it's much easier for me to
[29:19] say no.
[29:20] Now, we're experienced. We're mature.
[29:24] Absolutely. So, to close the episode,
[29:26] since we are
[29:28] mentioning the importance of saying no,
[29:30] I would like to ask you, to each one of
[29:32] you, an example, a real-life case where
[29:36] you said no
[29:38] and it became one of the best decisions
[29:40] you ever made in your life,
[29:42] business-wise, clearly.
[29:45] We don't explore first, so black.
[29:47] I don't want to open that can of worms.
[29:51] [laughter]
[29:53] [snorts]
[29:53] We're not ready for that yet.
[29:56] Um
[29:57] But
[29:58] Please. I think honestly, and this is
[30:00] this is brutal.
[30:02] We have said no to clients.
[30:04] We've said no to onboarding a client
[30:06] that is very complex,
[30:08] KYC negative, perhaps, or someone who we
[30:11] know is going to be too problematic down
[30:12] the chain
[30:13] through their misunderstanding, through
[30:15] their non-desire to want to understand,
[30:16] through whatever you want to be. I think
[30:18] there's a moment the business has to
[30:19] say, "You're not for us." It's not to
[30:21] refuse income or revenue. Absolutely
[30:23] not. But we already feel that this isn't
[30:25] going to work. This relationship isn't
[30:26] going to work. The understanding is not
[30:28] wanting to be here. Thank you very much.
[30:30] We have other people we can introduce
[30:31] you to." I think that is very extremity
[30:33] of a no.
[30:34] [snorts]
[30:34] But I think a a company, or any company,
[30:36] should have the
[30:37] confidence for its own business
[30:39] protection, as opposed to taking a
[30:41] problem on that would have been a
[30:42] problem from day one that continues to
[30:44] be a problem and to get out of that
[30:45] problem, the time you will spend to get
[30:46] out of it and everything else might be
[30:47] Lord, why did we not just say no at the
[30:48] beginning? So, I think part of the no
[30:50] from from our side even historically is
[30:53] if it doesn't fit, if it doesn't work,
[30:55] say say to people no, thank you very
[30:57] much.
[30:58] That's it.
[30:59] It's It's for sure that general, but if
[31:01] you want a specific uh
[31:04] uh
[31:06] issue as well. It It just from last
[31:07] week, you know, of a deal in in Middle
[31:09] East.
[31:10] The first one I did in the Middle East,
[31:11] is that still existing? Is it still
[31:13] there? Without Mr. Anton.
[31:15] [laughter]
[31:15] And
[31:16] uh they contracted me to buy a Global
[31:18] Express, you know, which nice aircraft
[31:19] long range cabin because have 2,500
[31:21] nautical miles. You can fly from here to
[31:23] New York or whatever, you know, so it's
[31:24] a very nice asset within the It was in
[31:26] between 10 and 20 million US dollar.
[31:29] And the guy was
[31:30] simply looking from the market scan we
[31:32] did to the the price. One of them was
[31:35] much lower than the other, but when it's
[31:37] much lower or lower that there is a
[31:39] reason. And the reason was the aircraft
[31:41] had a huge damage history in the past.
[31:43] It was in the US. That was fixed, you
[31:45] know, but at the end
[31:47] when we buy, we need to think resell.
[31:50] And with this damage history, despite
[31:52] the price was really good, it would take
[31:54] forever to resell it. I said, don't
[31:56] touch to this aircraft. I don't want to
[31:57] to even put an LRI, whatever.
[32:00] Forget it, you know? It's not because
[32:01] the price is right there that's good
[32:03] deal, you know? And otherwise
[32:05] you it would be a nightmare to resell it
[32:07] and you would be losing so much money at
[32:09] the end. So, it just from last week, you
[32:10] know, so very very very fresh.
[32:14] What about you?
[32:15] So, I very much agree with the examples
[32:17] they made.
[32:19] I couldn't agree more. So, I will add
[32:22] a third and additional perspective.
[32:25] It's the nose to yourself.
[32:28] So, I am in the privileged position of
[32:31] allocating capital to purchase some of
[32:34] the most beautiful cars in the world.
[32:36] Given immense extreme passion, of
[32:39] course, it hurts once in a while to say
[32:43] no. Of course, we're at this
[32:44] intersection.
[32:46] My business is successful because all of
[32:49] us have so much passion, but at the same
[32:51] time, it's a business. So, the business
[32:53] side must prevail on the passion.
[32:56] So, telling yourself no to your
[33:00] passionate side to only take data-driven
[33:02] decisions
[33:03] hurts.
[33:05] But, ultimately, it's always our
[33:07] responsibility towards our investors to
[33:10] act rationally in a data-driven manner
[33:13] rather than with the heart. The heart
[33:15] then comes in
[33:17] [laughter]
[33:22] So, the heart part then comes back in
[33:25] when I take
[33:27] a prospect client for a drive in a car
[33:30] and they see I love it so intensely that
[33:33] they feel like they're missing out on
[33:35] something if they don't have my same
[33:37] level of love for that car.
[33:39] But, the no came before. So,
[33:42] I see.
[33:43] Being rational when you when you're in
[33:44] love, difficult.
[33:46] [laughter]
[33:52] What about you? Your most important
[33:55] The most important no came from a huge
[33:58] client who wanted to have a global
[34:00] project for all their retail exploration
[34:04] that was about strategic advice.
[34:07] And they said, "Professor, you did such
[34:09] a great job. The strategy, could you
[34:11] implement it for us?"
[34:14] And it was um we worked in management
[34:16] consultancy for a poor professor like
[34:19] me. It was quite a significant amount.
[34:22] But, I said, "No, I cannot do it
[34:26] because I don't have the resources and
[34:27] capabilities
[34:29] to get it all the way through. So, I
[34:31] cannot have the same level of quality
[34:34] just like you and I recommended
[34:36] something else. So, my friend said you
[34:38] must be insane to wave this money off,
[34:41] but I said no, it's my responsibility
[34:43] towards my client.
[34:46] And at the end of the day, the client
[34:47] came back and say
[34:49] we would like you to do something else.
[34:51] And I said what was it? We have here all
[34:53] the offers of all the big consultancy
[34:55] companies. Would you like to come and
[34:58] look at them and tell us how you rate
[35:00] them and rate them? Which was again,
[35:03] there you can see they understood
[35:05] and it was a very good no for me because
[35:08] my nose are
[35:10] long-term. It's more important to say no
[35:12] and take care. Just like you take care
[35:15] of them even if it's not with you. If
[35:17] there's somebody else who do it better,
[35:19] I recommend them to go there because I
[35:22] take care of you.
[35:24] Trust.
[35:25] Yeah.
[35:25] And then they come back. Trust me.
[35:27] Correct.
[35:29] And to conclude, I just want to say
[35:31] thank you so much for being here. I
[35:33] really love this conversation and I'm so
[35:35] happy we managed to bring you all here
[35:38] cuz I know we all have crazy agendas.
[35:40] So, it's a it's really appreciated. And
[35:43] stay tuned for next episode.
[35:47] [music]