# Intro to Vedanta part 15: Reality: Ishvara and Maya

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0nBCl46xFs

[00:32] Very good.
[00:35] Welcome back.
[00:35] I think last week's class was one of our, I think, most interesting ones, but it's a topic that I think baffles many people.
[00:44] I tried to recapture it very briefly before we move on today.
[00:49] And the class really was spent the whole class answering one vexing problem.
[00:57] How does one non-dual Brahman become a world of duality?
[01:04] Good question.
[01:06] And after last class, you can answer that question now.
[01:13] How did the one non-dual Brahman become a world of duality?
[01:19] Last week you understood it never happened.
[01:22] From the standpoint of Brahman, there is no universe.
[01:27] From the standpoint of clay, there's no pot.
[01:30] It's only clay.
[01:38] From the standpoint of clay, I'm sorry, from the standpoint of the pot, we can explain how the pot came into existence.
[01:46] We know there was some potter in India who got some clay and made this.
[01:51] In the same way, from the standpoint of the universe, we can discuss how the universe was created.
[01:59] But, we have no explanation that bridges both that paramarthika satta and vyavaharika satta.
[02:15] We have used two unique and term I used was mutually exclusive orders of reality.
[02:21] And you can't have one foot in each.
[02:23] They have one foot of each in each should be like having one foot in the waking state and one foot in the dream state.
[02:32] How can you do that?
[02:34] You're either awake or you're in a
[02:35] dream.
[02:37] So, in the waking world, we have these laws that the universe works according to.
[02:44] In your dream, the rules are all different.
[02:46] In a dream, you can fly.
[02:49] In a dream, you can get killed and come back to life.
[02:53] So, dream world is mutually exclusive from the waking world and vice versa.
[03:01] So, here we're saying that this empirical world, vyavaharika satta, is mutually exclusive and the absolute reality, paramarthika satta, is mutually exclusive.
[03:19] A lot of confusion comes when we mix up these two.
[03:25] When we try to embrace both perspectives simultaneously, it doesn't work.
[03:31] Any discussion will be from one perspective or another.
[03:34] So, that summarizes
[03:36] Last week's discussion almost summarizes.
[03:41] So, coming now to introduce today's class, if Brahman never became the universe, because Brahman remains one non-dual Brahman, just as clay never became the pot, even now there is only clay.
[03:59] Now we can shift our perspective.
[04:01] We can say from the standpoint of the pot, how did the pot come into existence?
[04:06] We can talk about that.
[04:07] And what we're going to talk about today is from the standpoint of Vyavaharika Satta, from the standpoint of this empirical world, how did the universe come into existence?
[04:21] That we can explain perfectly fine.
[04:23] In fact, we have an abundance of very wonderful, powerful teachings to help us understand how Ishvara created this universe.
[04:33] Ishvara created this universe?
[04:34] Absolutely.
[04:36] Brahman created this universe?
[04:38] Absolutely not.
[04:42] So, Ishvara is from our empirical standpoint.
[04:46] And that led to that interesting discussion.
[04:48] I we won't get into it again today, but in Vedanta, Ishvara is not the highest reality.
[04:58] Brahman is the highest reality.
[05:02] Ishvara is not the highest reality, but as we discussed at some length in the last class, it doesn't mean Ishvara got demoted, as we discussed, but rather Ishvara is as real as you and me.
[05:17] Thank goodness.
[05:18] We can only have a personal relationship with this with an Ishvara who's as real as we are.
[05:25] If Ishvara were more real than we are, we would have no way of understanding who and what that was, or communicating with Ishvara.
[05:37] Prayer would be
[05:39] Doctrine of karma would be meaningless.
[05:44] All of that.
[05:44] So, Ishvara is as real as you and me.
[05:48] That Ishvara is the creator of the universe and that's what we're going to discuss.
[05:52] When we say Ishvara is the creator, sustainer, and destroyer of the universe, exactly what does that mean?
[06:01] And that's today's discussion.
[06:03] It's a discussion in which we really analyze what is involved in the act of creation.
[06:12] So, for example, in the act of creating this pot, what is required?
[06:19] And we want to in this case come down to the bare essentials.
[06:24] So, there are two fundamental essentials.
[06:28] There are many auxiliary things which could be involved.
[06:34] For example, there are primary means and secondary means.
[06:37] In a secondary means.
[06:41] would be like the a potter's wheel.
[06:44] Can you make a pot without a wheel?
[06:47] You can.
[06:49] You make it by hand.
[06:51] Sure.
[06:53] So, the potter's wheel is not a primary thing.
[06:56] The potter has a stick and all this other stuff.
[07:00] So, all of that stuff is secondary.
[07:02] We want to identify two fundamental factors without which this pot could not have been brought into existence.
[07:13] So, potter's wheel can't be counted among those two because you can make a pot without a wheel.
[07:18] You can't make a pot without clay or some material.
[07:23] So, clay counts as one of those two fundamental factors.
[07:28] And another factor is well, I suppose the potter.
[07:37] So, there you have [laughter].
[07:39] There you have it.
[07:41] Those are the two fundamental factors involved in the uh
[07:45] Creation of this pot.
[07:47] Other factors could be there, but, but yeah.
[07:49] Actually, in in the commentary, they they like to go on very interesting um analyses of some of this.
[08:01] So, to trace it back the two not only the potter is a cause, but the potter's father.
[08:12] [laughter]
[08:12] Because the potter's father is the cause for the potter, who's the cause for the pot.
[08:22] They get into all [laughter]
[08:25] These commentators are crazy.
[08:27] They just love this analysis and going on and on.
[08:30] We fortunately, we need not go that far.
[08:34] So, let us introduce some important nomenclature.
[08:38] Certain Sanskrit terminology is really crucial.
[08:41] Uh gives us a tremendous amount of clarity, even though the words may
[08:47] Seem a little bit cumbersome,
[08:49] It ends up being really important.
[08:52] So, the two factors, the first of all, the clay, I'll give you the English first.
[08:58] We'll call it the material cause.
[09:05] Which we have this nice fancy Sanskrit name.
[09:09] Mhm.
[09:16] Upadana karana.
[09:18] Please don't mix up the words karana and karana.
[09:24] This is a karana.
[09:27] Right?
[09:32] Karana means cause.
[09:32] Upadana means that from which it comes,
[09:35] Literally means material cause.
[09:40] So, clay is the upadana karana for the pot.
[09:45] Threads are the upadana karana for this cloth.
[09:51] Wood is the upadana karana for this table.
[09:56] Etc. Very easy concept.
[09:58] But, it's only one of the two.
[10:01] So, we said there's a second factor, which we identified as the potter, who is the
[10:13] You know, the I'm just choosing the English word.
[10:16] The standard I'll give you both.
[10:19] The standard English word, and this is a word drawn from Western philosophy, and I'm I'm not very satisfied with it, but it's what's often
[10:30] Not often, it's always used by Western philosophy.
[10:36] First we call it an efficient cause.
[10:41] Now, to say that the potter is the efficient cause is not to say that the potter makes a lot of pots in a short period of time, which is true.
[10:52] This pot was made in about 30 seconds.
[10:57] Actually, this is a little fancy.
[10:58] You'll see all those squirrely things.
[11:01] But, a simple pot that you would have drunk tea from takes about 5 seconds.
[11:06] Honestly, if you watch it.
[11:08] [laughter]
[11:09] So, the point I'm making is while the potter might be efficient, this is a technical usage of the word efficient in the sense the one who has the efficacy, the capacity, in particular, the intelligence, the knowledge.
[11:30] And sometimes I would substitute the word intelligent cause it's technically incorrect, but that more kind of more accurately gives us a sense of what it is.
[11:44] The standard word is efficient cause.
[11:45] We can call it an intelligent cause as well.
[11:52] Notice intelligent means if the potter
[11:56] doesn't make any sense.
[11:58] Suppose the potter doesn't know anything about pots.
[12:01] Then he's then he's not a potter, obviously.
[12:05] But the point is a person you can't just have a person who's responsible for the pots.
[12:11] It has to be a person who knows how to make pots.
[12:17] There's knowledge involved and skill.
[12:20] So knowledge and skill are implied here.
[12:23] In fact, we will add those words.
[12:30] And those are that's what's intended by this Western philosophical word efficient cause.
[12:39] Course, we're just going to ignore all of that and use a the proper Sanskrit term, which is nimitta.
[12:48] Nimitta means efficient cause.
[12:51] That which is the nimitta, that which is the agent.
[12:55] Agentive cause, I'm making up words.
[12:59] [clears throat] So these are the two factors.
[13:03] As we said, we can identify other factors, the potter's wheel, the stick he uses, the potter's father, etc., etc., etc., but the main two causes are the upadana karana, the clay, and the nimitta karana, which means the potter who possesses the knowledge of pots and skill to make pots.
[13:29] Okay, enough said.
[13:30] Now, we can proceed by by asking the question, is Ishvara like a potter?
[13:38] So, like a potter creates a pot, Ishvara creates the universe.
[13:43] There's a huge problem there.
[13:45] And that is before the potter creates to the pot, the pot the potter goes out into the countryside and digs a bunch of clay.
[13:56] Brings the clay back and uses that
[13:59] Supply of clay to make the pots.
[14:03] [snorts] In the beginning, before the universe existed, where could Ishvara have gone for the raw material, the upadana karana, of which the universe was made?
[14:19] And I'm pretty sure in our last class I quoted the Chandogya Upanishad where it says Sadeva Saumya Idam Agra Asit.
[14:27] I quoted that last time, right?
[14:29] So, it said, "In the beginning, before the universe existed, the only thing that existed was Ishvara."
[14:38] Ishvara alone existed.
[14:42] If our potter alone existed, could he make pots?
[14:46] No.
[14:47] So, here we have a different situation.
[14:50] In the beginning, Agre, before the universe came into existence, the only reality that was, that existed, was
[14:59] Ishvara.
[15:01] And Ishvara could not E- Ishvara could certainly be the nimitta karana,
[15:06] but what about the upadana karana?
[15:10] Look at the difference.
[15:13] The potter himself was the nimitta karana, and the upadana karana was separate from the potter.
[15:25] Obviously, that's where Ishvara is different.
[15:27] Ishvara indeed is the Nimitta Karana for the universe.
[15:33] But, the Upadana Karana cannot be separate from Ishvara cuz there's nothing else.
[15:42] There's no choice.
[15:45] Logically, you're pushed into a corner.
[15:49] The only possibility is that Ishvara himself, by the way, himself is only because the word Ishvara in Sanskrit happens to be in a masculine gender.
[15:57] That's the only reason.
[16:00] Ishvara
[16:00] Is neither male nor female, or better said, Ishvara is both male and female.
[16:05] But, grammatically, Ishvara is in the masculine gender.
[16:11] So, that that Ishvara himself must also be the Upadana Karana.
[16:19] No.
[16:22] What does that mean?
[16:22] How can that work?
[16:26] Well, the I I I think it's the Mundaka Upanishad gives us wonderful wonderful metaphor.
[16:32] I've just been delighted every time I think about it every since I was I came into this tradition when I was quite young.
[16:39] And the the statement is Yatha Urnanabhihi Srijate Grhnate Cha.
[16:49] Urnanabhi.
[16:52] Does that word even come in Hindi or no?
[16:54] Doesn't come?
[16:55] Nabhi does.
[16:55] So, you know you know Nabhi as as navel.
[16:59] Urna is wool.
[17:05] Huh?
[17:08] Wool navel.
[17:13] It's an expression for a spider from whom a thread emerges, not exactly from the navel, but [laughter] from some part of the spider's anatomy, the thread is excreted or spit out, whatever, however you want to understand that.
[17:33] So, urnanabhi is a then becomes a word for a spider who's capable of spinning thread and weaving a web.
[17:46] And this is just a wonderful metaphor.
[17:51] Yata urnanabhi, just as that spider srijati, spins out a web.
[17:58] And pretty amazing when you look at the complexity and size of those webs.
[18:04] Spiders are not very big, they spin.
[18:07] These big webs, but something that fascinates me more is how big is a spider's brain?
[18:16] And yet look at the complexity of the webs that they spin.
[18:21] Something remarkable there.
[18:24] So, that spider definitely has the intelligence and skill to make the web.
[18:32] Just like the potter has the intelligence and skill to make the pot, our spider, urnanabhi, has the intelligence and skill to make that web, but the difference between the potter and spider is clear.
[18:47] That is the potter has to go outside for the source of the material, the upadanakarana, whereas from the spider itself the material cause is produced.
[19:03] The urna, the wool thread.
[19:07] So, the spider is both the nimitta and upadana karana,
[19:15] unlike the potter who was only the uh the nimitta karana and had to go outside for the upadana karana.
[19:25] The metaphor goes on and says "Yatha urnanabhih srijate, just as a spider spins out the web, grhnate cha."
[19:36] Grhnate means to eat.
[19:38] And I I don't know if you've ever watched, but apparently a um a spider will eat the threads of his of a damaged web.
[19:49] So, if the web is spun out and they get damaged, and then the spider is doing his his home repairs like some of you do.
[19:58] But, the spider doesn't have a hammer and nails, what does a spider do to repair his web?
[20:04] He eats the the uh strands of the damaged part, and then he spins out new
[20:09] Threads.
[20:11] So, a little interesting insight, I don't know, might be a silly insight, is apparently the ancient rishis must have spent some time watching spiders.
[20:22] [laughter]
[20:22] Obviously, otherwise, how would they have come up with this metaphor?
[20:27] So, we know the ancient spider, the ancient rishis watched spiders.
[20:32] Okay.
[20:34] That we know.
[20:38] But, what a great metaphor.
[20:38] The web comes from the spider.
[20:44] And when the web is destroyed, where does the fibers end up?
[20:49] The spider consumes the web, and the thread returns to the spider.
[20:55] The upadana comes from the spider and is returned to the spider by the act of eating.
[21:06] Just as this universe is issued forth from Ishvara.
[21:10] And when the universe reaches the end of
[21:13] its lifetime,
[21:15] when the karma runs out by the way it's
[21:17] karma.
[21:18] It's another topic, but when the karma
[21:21] of every living being in the universe
[21:24] is exhausted at exactly the same moment.
[21:29] So you have to imagine what are the
[21:30] likely when will that happen? So we all
[21:33] have our individual karmas and which all
[21:36] are expiring at different times.
[21:40] Suppose we lived at such a time when the
[21:44] karma of every living creature
[21:47] lined up.
[21:49] And that all the karmas were exhausted
[21:53] at exactly the same time.
[21:55] That's how the dissolution of the
[21:58] universe is explained according to the
[22:00] doctrine of karma. The karmas run out
[22:03] for all living creatures. There's no
[22:06] reason for the universe to continue to
[22:08] be sustained. The universe undergoes
[22:10] dissolution, returns to its source.
[22:14] Ishvara.
[22:15] Okay. So now we have this great second
[22:18] metaphor. We're building up these
[22:19] metaphors. We start with the spider with
[22:21] the potter metaphor. Then we see the
[22:25] defect of that metaphor and then we move
[22:27] on to a better metaphor. In Sanskrit we
[22:31] use the word drishtanta.
[22:33] Drishtanta means metaphor and something
[22:36] to bear in mind. I'm pretty sure I
[22:38] mentioned this before. Every drishtanta
[22:41] is defective.
[22:44] If the drishtanta weren't defective, it
[22:47] wouldn't be a metaphor. It would be the
[22:49] thing itself.
[22:51] So by definition a metaphor is not the
[22:55] thing. And the metaphor therefore has
[22:59] some defects. It doesn't quite get
[23:02] there. So, we see the defect in the
[23:04] potter dṛṣṭānta is the fact that the
[23:08] upādāna kāraṇa is outside. Then, we look
[23:11] at the the spider dṛṣṭānta, ūrṇanābhi
[23:16] uh example. That metaphor is also
[23:19] flawed.
[23:22] We have to figure out where is the flaw.
[23:26] Think about it for a moment.
[23:29] So, where is the flaw?
[23:31] Have you ever seen
[23:33] a spider web
[23:36] without a spider?
[23:39] Many times.
[23:42] So, what happened?
[23:44] The spider created the web
[23:48] and he left.
[23:50] So, how is that? Īśvara created the
[23:53] universe
[23:54] and he went on a holiday.
[23:56] [laughter]
[23:58] That's not it all.
[24:00] How
[24:01] How we understand the universe
[24:05] in fact, to use the language of Advaita
[24:08] Vedānta,
[24:10] we say the universe is non-separate
[24:14] from Īśvara.
[24:16] The web is certainly separate from the
[24:19] spider.
[24:20] Have one spider and one web. That looks
[24:23] like duality.
[24:26] But, we cannot count one Īśvara plus
[24:31] one universe.
[24:34] And
[24:35] why we have to explain. So, we're just
[24:38] building this up. The according to the
[24:40] ancient By the way, just understand what
[24:42] we're doing here is
[24:44] the ancient rishis have this vision
[24:48] and we're trying to
[24:50] go step by step, climbing up a ladder,
[24:54] trying to reach that vision. The first
[24:57] rung of our ladder was this potter
[24:59] drishtanta.
[25:01] The next rung of our ladder is the
[25:03] spider drishtanta. So, we're working our
[25:06] way up to reach the grand vision of the
[25:09] ancient rishis.
[25:11] So,
[25:12] having seen the defect
[25:15] of the spider metaphor, which is that
[25:19] the web is separate from its creator,
[25:24] you can have a web without a spider, the
[25:26] spider can abandon its web, the the web
[25:30] is separate and distinct from its
[25:32] creator, all of these don't apply to
[25:36] Ishvara.
[25:37] So, all of these points are then defects
[25:40] in the spider drishtanta.
[25:43] So, at this point, we're ready to
[25:46] take the next step. Notice, we're not
[25:48] saying each one is wrong.
[25:51] If you're climbing a ladder, is that
[25:53] each rung the prior rung is not wrong.
[25:57] Each rung is a step to your goal. So,
[26:00] we're not saying the potter metaphor is
[26:02] wrong, it's a step to the goal. We're
[26:05] not saying the spider metaphor is wrong,
[26:07] it's a step to the goal, but we have to
[26:09] make that next step.
[26:11] And to make that next step, we need
[26:13] another drishtanta.
[26:16] And we have a wonderful drishtanta,
[26:19] which we use extensively.
[26:22] It's used in many scriptures.
[26:25] Gaudapada, who was Shankaracharya's
[26:28] paramaguru, uh was especially fond of
[26:32] the dream metaphor, svapna drishtanta.
[26:37] And we'll spend some time talking about
[26:39] that right now.
[26:41] When you have a dream,
[26:47] you're the creator for that dream world,
[26:49] right?
[26:53] Okay, let's take it step by step.
[26:55] You are the nimitta karana for your
[26:59] dream world.
[27:00] Why?
[27:01] You have the knowledge. Can you dream
[27:04] about something
[27:05] of which you have no knowledge
[27:08] whatsoever?
[27:10] Or isn't it true that all of our dreams
[27:14] are born of
[27:17] the impressions left over from prior
[27:20] experiences? We call them memories. In
[27:23] the Sanskrit, they use the word
[27:25] samskara.
[27:26] So, every experience we've had from
[27:28] childhood onwards has left an impression
[27:31] in our mind called a samskara or simply
[27:34] memory.
[27:35] And what happens while we're dreaming is
[27:39] from those samskaras, from those
[27:41] memories, different events and things
[27:45] and situations come forth.
[27:48] Um can you You know,
[27:51] this is Pujya Swamiji like like this
[27:53] example. He said, "Can you dream about
[27:58] gaga bugai?"
[28:04] [laughter]
[28:06] So, gaga bugai was a nonsense word he
[28:08] made up
[28:09] [laughter]
[28:10] for
[28:11] for this
[28:13] [snorts]
[28:13] exact purpose. So, it's impossible to
[28:16] have a dream about gaga bugai because
[28:18] you have no idea what it is. What is
[28:21] gaga bugai? You can only have a dream
[28:24] based on your
[28:26] knowledge.
[28:28] So, now we said that the nimitta karana
[28:32] had knowledge and skill. By the way, you
[28:35] also are pretty skillful in creating a
[28:37] dream. We have that capacity.
[28:40] It's wired into our brains
[28:44] to dream. By the way, modern neuro
[28:47] science is doing a lot finding out a lot
[28:49] of fascinating things about what happens
[28:52] in sleep and what happens in dream.
[28:55] Some very important stuff we know and
[28:58] it's not relevant to us, but it's uh
[29:00] turns out that the
[29:02] uh dream is not only important for our
[29:04] discussion, but dream is important for
[29:06] being healthy.
[29:07] Uh that's what the neuroscientists are
[29:09] are discovering.
[29:10] Okay.
[29:12] So, when you dream
[29:14] your dream requires nimitta and upadana
[29:18] karana.
[29:19] You, the dreamer,
[29:22] are the nimitta karana because you
[29:26] possess the knowledge and the skill
[29:30] because of which that dream creation can
[29:34] take take form can take shape.
[29:37] And bear in mind inside your dream
[29:39] creation, there's a there's a lot of
[29:41] complex stuff. You dream of
[29:44] Suppose your dream You dream that you're
[29:46] on an aircraft. You're flying someplace.
[29:48] You're flying to India.
[29:50] Do you know it it takes
[29:52] it it takes thousands of workers a year
[29:56] to make a jet aircraft.
[30:00] You close your eyes.
[30:03] [laughter]
[30:04] And you walk on the on the jet.
[30:07] And the point is is that our skill, our
[30:11] capacity
[30:13] coupled with our knowledge, our memories
[30:15] is capable really of of creating
[30:18] anything. It's a very powerful capacity.
[30:21] So,
[30:23] for your dream creation, you, the
[30:26] dreamer,
[30:28] not the one sitting in your chair right
[30:29] now,
[30:31] but you, the dreamer,
[30:34] are the nimitta karana for your dream
[30:37] world.
[30:39] Then, what about upadana karana?
[30:42] The potter had to go someplace else for
[30:44] the clay.
[30:45] But when you dream, you don't go
[30:48] anywhere and you can't get material.
[30:51] And the the um
[30:54] the spider metaphor.
[30:58] Now you can see how see where the dream
[31:02] metaphor is different because
[31:05] the spider's creation
[31:08] is separate from the spider.
[31:12] Your dream creation
[31:16] is not separate from you.
[31:19] That's the essence of the difference
[31:22] between these two drishtantas.
[31:25] The spider's creation web is separate
[31:28] and distinct
[31:30] from its creator, the spider, but your
[31:34] dream world is not in any way separate
[31:39] or distinct from you, the dreamer.
[31:44] Now we'll take the next step
[31:46] and say
[31:47] well, the
[31:49] pot is made of clay.
[31:52] The web is made of threads spun out from
[31:56] the spider's body.
[31:59] What is your dream world made of?
[32:04] Kind of an odd question, but we have to
[32:06] This is what we have to inquire into.
[32:10] Suppose in your dream world there's a
[32:13] tree.
[32:15] So what is the dream tree made of? Well,
[32:21] I suppose you could use that Remember we
[32:23] went through that with the cloth. You
[32:25] could say, "Oh, Swamiji, my dream tree
[32:28] is made of dream wood."
[32:32] Here we go.
[32:33] [laughter]
[32:34] Okay, then what is the dream wood made
[32:36] of? And then
[32:38] we can go on and on and on and on like
[32:40] that.
[32:42] But ultimately, that dream tree
[32:47] must have some substance, some content
[32:51] because of which it can exist and be
[32:55] experienced by you.
[32:56] By the way, it does exist.
[33:00] Right? The dream tree
[33:02] is not a non-existent tree.
[33:05] Because if it were non-existent,
[33:08] you couldn't experience it.
[33:11] The dream tree, remember our four terms?
[33:15] The dream tree is not to chum.
[33:20] To chum means what? Absolutely
[33:23] non-existent like the elephant in my
[33:25] hand.
[33:26] If the dream tree were to chum, it
[33:29] couldn't be experienced any more than
[33:32] the elephant in my hand.
[33:34] That dream tree, however, is
[33:37] experienced.
[33:39] But the you say, "But Swamiji, it's not
[33:40] as real as a real tree." Exactly.
[33:44] That's why we call it a dream tree.
[33:47] Remember we had those four orders of
[33:49] reality. Starting at the bottom, to
[33:51] chum, no existence whatsoever. What was
[33:54] the next one?
[33:56] Pratibhasika.
[33:57] Very good. Projected reality. That
[34:01] describes the tree.
[34:03] Which is less reality than Vyavaharika,
[34:07] the tree is outside.
[34:09] Which is less real than Brahman, the
[34:12] non-dual existence because of which
[34:15] everything else
[34:16] uh can can exist.
[34:19] So,
[34:21] that dream tree
[34:24] is experienced. That dream tree
[34:28] has existence, Pratibhasika Satta.
[34:33] And so, we still have to come to that
[34:35] answer. What is that dream tree made of?
[34:41] In very loose terms, we can make we can
[34:43] say it's made of your dream stuff.
[34:48] It's made of the dreamer.
[34:53] Really, it's made of you.
[34:55] Doesn't come from anyone else.
[34:58] It comes from you, your dream
[35:01] consciousness, if we can use that term.
[35:04] And what a wonderful metaphor.
[35:06] When you dream, your dream world comes
[35:10] from you.
[35:11] Then you dream for a while, your dream
[35:14] world is sustained by you.
[35:16] And when you wake up,
[35:18] your dream world
[35:20] returns
[35:21] to you.
[35:23] So, for your dream creation,
[35:27] you are the srishti karta, the creator.
[35:31] You are the sthiti karta,
[35:34] the sustainer.
[35:35] And you are the samhara karta, the one
[35:39] who receives the universe the dream
[35:43] creation at the end of time.
[35:46] So, this is perfect.
[35:49] The dream creation
[35:52] is made of you.
[35:55] It comes forth from you. It's sustained
[35:58] by you. It returns to you. And while it
[36:02] exists,
[36:04] is that dream creation
[36:06] separate from you in any sense?
[36:11] It's in you.
[36:13] It is non-separate from you.
[36:17] Think of what Think of the implications
[36:20] of this.
[36:22] Now,
[36:23] it would be wrong to say
[36:27] that this is Ishvara's dream.
[36:29] Because it's not Ishvara's dream, and
[36:33] that would be a wrong interpretation, a
[36:35] wrong application. But this dream
[36:37] metaphor is still very meaningful.
[36:40] Just as your dream creation comes from
[36:44] you, is sustained by you, returns to
[36:46] you, in the same way the universe comes
[36:48] from Ishvara, sustained by Ishvara,
[36:50] returns to to Ishvara. And just as you
[36:55] are the very stuff
[36:58] out of which the dream world is made, in
[37:02] the same way Ishvara is the very stuff
[37:07] out of which the uh universe is made.
[37:12] The dream tree
[37:16] is made of you.
[37:19] The vyavaharika tree outside is made of
[37:26] Ishvara is the right answer. Why do we
[37:28] say made of Ishvara? Well, Ishvara
[37:31] happens to be the upadana
[37:34] karana.
[37:35] So just as
[37:37] the pot is made of clay,
[37:42] the dream tree is made of you,
[37:45] and the real tree is made of Ishvara.
[37:50] You know,
[37:52] you've heard it said
[37:54] so many times
[37:56] that Ishvara is in everything.
[38:02] That that's and this the you know the
[38:05] This is kind of like Hinduism 101.
[38:07] Everything is divine. Why is everything
[38:10] divine? Ishvara is in everything. Then
[38:13] you see these really cute pictures. I
[38:15] think ISKCON likes these pictures.
[38:17] They'll show a human being with this
[38:19] glowing divinity within.
[38:22] Then they'll show a dog glowing divinity
[38:25] within. Then they show a cat glowing
[38:28] divinity within. Anything that they
[38:31] show.
[38:32] So whatever living Oh, it's that that
[38:35] glowing divinity.
[38:37] Do you see the defect with that
[38:40] presentation?
[38:43] Ishvara is like some entity that got
[38:46] inside of me?
[38:49] There's a big confusion here.
[38:51] [clears throat]
[38:52] Is Ishvara
[38:54] I'll introduce this. This is a funny
[38:57] funny thing of of uh
[38:59] explaining this.
[39:00] When I was a uh
[39:03] child growing up in the Roman Catholic
[39:07] uh tradition.
[39:09] And we had uh nuns teaching us religion
[39:12] all the time. And [snorts]
[39:14] it didn't you know, they taught a lot.
[39:16] It didn't make sense. They have to say
[39:18] that a lot of uh of the uh biblical
[39:21] theology is just really full of
[39:24] problems. Even a kid
[39:26] you know, stupid kid like I was I could
[39:28] figure out that that this doesn't make
[39:30] sense.
[39:31] And they said that the
[39:33] the uh term used by the Roman Catholic
[39:36] Church in those days was they spoke of
[39:38] three aspects of God.
[39:41] That's interesting right there.
[39:43] You know, they they say that that that
[39:46] uh the biblical religions are monistic.
[39:49] God is one. But then they And and
[39:52] definitely no polytheism here. But then
[39:55] our Christian friends talk about God the
[39:57] Father,
[39:58] His Son, Jesus Christ,
[40:01] and the Holy Spirit.
[40:04] And if you say, "Oh, you got three
[40:06] gods." They say, "No, no, no, no. We
[40:08] don't have three gods." You ask them to
[40:10] explain it.
[40:13] They can't.
[40:15] They can't explain it. You'll be
[40:17] surprised to know that the official
[40:20] doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church is
[40:23] that it is a mystery. That's what they
[40:27] say.
[40:28] They admit they can't explain it and
[40:31] they get around it by saying
[40:33] that's the way that it's inexplicable.
[40:36] How can God made it inexplicable, so how
[40:40] can you explain it? This is not
[40:42] theology, it's just anyway, let me not
[40:45] let me not get off off on a tangent. So,
[40:47] this was being taught to me as a little
[40:50] child.
[40:51] And the language used in those days, now
[40:54] generally they use the term Holy Spirit
[40:56] nowadays. In those days they used the
[40:59] term Holy Ghost.
[41:01] And it turns out that at that very time,
[41:04] this would be the early 1960s,
[41:07] um there was a cartoon. I used to love
[41:10] his cartoons on TV, but even they were
[41:12] black and white TVs in those days, early
[41:15] 60s, late 50s.
[41:17] And but there was a a particular cartoon
[41:20] which had a character who was a ghost.
[41:24] A friendly ghost.
[41:27] Called Casper.
[41:30] Casper the Friendly Ghost.
[41:33] And as a child I would watch this
[41:35] friendly ghost go right through walls.
[41:39] I thought that's cool.
[41:41] And so I assumed that when what the nuns
[41:44] were teaching us that God is like this
[41:47] friendly ghost.
[41:49] [laughter]
[41:52] Go through things and and you know, so
[41:55] therefore
[41:57] when you see these now Hindu, now we
[41:59] have to look back to a Hindu tradition.
[42:02] So, when you see these pictures of the
[42:05] human being with this little four-armed
[42:08] Narayana standing inside here,
[42:11] that's like Casper
[42:14] [laughter]
[42:14] standing there
[42:17] inside of you.
[42:20] How absurd is that?
[42:24] Ishvara is like some Casper who can
[42:27] stand inside of you. Only difference is
[42:29] Casper had two arms, this one has four.
[42:33] Casper was white, this one is blue.
[42:39] I'm I'm having some fun with this, but
[42:43] this is a pretty common Hindu belief.
[42:48] Right?
[42:49] God dwells inside of you. That's why
[42:51] you're every human being is divine.
[42:55] That's one of the reasons you shouldn't
[42:57] hurt anyone because God is inside.
[42:59] You're hurting that
[43:01] [laughter]
[43:03] that that little one that little 6-in
[43:06] tall Narayana and who's who's God inside
[43:09] of you.
[43:10] [snorts]
[43:11] I I I never watched those movies, but
[43:14] there was some
[43:16] some science fiction I I'd really I I
[43:19] don't I don't watch all the I don't like
[43:20] science fiction.
[43:22] Um but there was some movie about some
[43:24] kind of alien creature that got inside
[43:27] of people's bodies
[43:29] and then would kind of burst out and all
[43:31] this really nasty stuff. I don't know.
[43:34] [snorts]
[43:34] It's just really ugly, terrible stuff.
[43:37] Anyway, this is obviously not
[43:39] not what we're describing here. Okay.
[43:42] So, let us
[43:44] try to undo
[43:48] the confusion
[43:50] caused by this imagery.
[43:52] So, the image is a human being
[43:55] with his little 6-in tall Narayana
[43:58] shining very nicely inside because
[44:02] Ishvara is in you.
[44:06] Ishvara is in everything. Ishvara in
[44:08] you.
[44:09] So, where is the flaw here? The flaw is
[44:13] Ishvara is in you
[44:16] as you.
[44:21] Not Not as a little 6-in tall critter.
[44:25] Ishvara is in you
[44:28] as you.
[44:31] Clay
[44:32] is in the pot.
[44:40] Your dream stuff
[44:44] is in the tree.
[44:49] You are following this?
[44:50] Clay is in the pot.
[44:53] Your dream stuff
[44:56] is in the tree.
[45:00] To say that Ishvara is in us
[45:05] is to say
[45:07] it's only Ishvara. There's only clay.
[45:11] There's only dream stuff in your dream.
[45:14] There's only Ishvara.
[45:17] Every cell, every particle
[45:21] it's all a manifestation of Ishvara.
[45:25] It's all divinity. It's all non-separate
[45:28] from Ishvara.
[45:29] So, this
[45:31] the problem is is that this imagery and
[45:34] it's but you know, they're nice
[45:35] pictures. I don't I don't you know, it's
[45:38] they're
[45:39] They convey a very nice feeling, a very
[45:42] nice mood. But
[45:44] it sustains the sense of duality.
[45:49] Because you see the person
[45:51] and you also see the little Ishvara
[45:54] inside too.
[45:57] One One person
[45:59] and one Ishvara. By the way, isn't it a
[46:00] little ironic that the person is bigger
[46:03] than the little Ishwara?
[46:07] And they're a lot Anyway, it's artwork.
[46:09] So, it's not theology, it's artwork.
[46:13] But
[46:15] it does convey that sense of duality.
[46:19] That there is a human being and then
[46:22] there is also an Ishwara who comes along
[46:27] and like Casper the ghost gets inside of
[46:30] you. We have to give up that thinking
[46:33] entirely
[46:34] to understand when we say Ishwara is in
[46:39] you
[46:41] like clay is in the pot.
[46:45] Like your dream stuff is in the dream
[46:50] tree.
[46:51] In that way, Ishwara is in you
[46:56] because it's only Ishwara.
[46:59] You are only Ishwara. What based on
[47:03] what? Ishwara being the upadana
[47:08] karana.
[47:09] That's it.
[47:11] So, just as clay is the upadana
[47:14] for the pot
[47:17] so when we say clay is in the pot
[47:21] is nothing but clay.
[47:24] In the same way, Ishwara is the upadana
[47:27] karana for you and me which is to say
[47:30] Ishwara is in us.
[47:34] But that's all there is. It's only
[47:38] Ishwara. The pot is nothing but clay.
[47:41] You and I and the entire universe
[47:44] sentient and insentient
[47:47] nothing but
[47:48] Ishwara. All this is Ishwara. There's
[47:53] nothing but Ishwara.
[47:57] Pujya Swamiji was fond of saying, "In
[48:00] Hinduism,
[48:01] it's not complete to to say that there
[48:04] is one God is correct, but according to
[48:08] him," he said, "to say there is only God
[48:12] is more correct."
[48:14] One God is correct.
[48:17] Only God is far more correct. Why?
[48:20] Because one God could be like the
[48:21] spider, right?
[48:25] One spider created the web. Where is it
[48:27] Where is the spider? Who knows?
[48:30] So, there's a duality there.
[48:34] The biblical traditions are one God.
[48:38] But notice in the biblical traditions,
[48:40] the universe is completely separate
[48:43] from God. And that has huge
[48:46] consequences.
[48:48] Because
[48:49] you know, the the English word God is
[48:52] not surprisingly related to the English
[48:54] word good.
[48:57] God is
[48:58] good.
[49:01] What is not God
[49:03] is not so good.
[49:06] The universe, by definition, is not
[49:10] God.
[49:11] God is good. The universe is The word
[49:15] they use, evil.
[49:18] This is the basis of biblical theology.
[49:23] As soon as you make that division, that
[49:26] duality
[49:27] between creator and creation,
[49:32] you now have a good God and an evil
[49:36] creation.
[49:40] It's a very sad, difficult theology.
[49:44] Fortunately, the ancient rishis didn't
[49:47] go down that blind alley.
[49:50] So, they Why?
[49:52] They watched a spider.
[49:54] [laughter]
[49:56] [gasps]
[49:57] That can't be the only reason.
[50:00] It's one reason.
[50:02] They watched spiders and and other they
[50:04] meditated and prayed anyway.
[50:08] Okay, let's let's see where we want to
[50:10] take this tonight.
[50:11] There's there's there's quite There's
[50:13] quite a bit more to to work with to to
[50:15] do on this. So, let's see what we want
[50:17] to do here.
[50:18] Um
[50:27] That would That would be good. Um this
[50:29] is a a favorite metaphor I've used.
[50:33] Um suppose
[50:37] this is your dream.
[50:39] Whatever we see around us right now is
[50:41] your dream. So, you dreamt getting up
[50:44] this morning. You dreamt going to work
[50:46] or whatever you did. You dreamt coming
[50:48] to the ashram this evening. And now
[50:50] you're dreaming
[50:53] that we're in this class and you're
[50:54] dreaming that Swami Tadatmananda is is
[50:57] teaching. Which means
[51:00] Excuse me.
[51:01] Which means I am a character in your
[51:03] dream, right?
[51:06] So, now look at it from my standpoint.
[51:08] This is your dream creation.
[51:12] And I
[51:14] one of your By the way, you did a pretty
[51:16] good job. Look at this. You
[51:18] [laughter]
[51:19] You made this. You invented this. It's
[51:21] your dream. We do We dream of people all
[51:25] the time.
[51:26] So,
[51:28] I am your dream character.
[51:30] And being a Swami, I go on inquiring. I
[51:34] wonder where all this came from.
[51:36] What is this made of?
[51:38] What is this world made of? Now, to me,
[51:42] your dream character
[51:44] seems very real
[51:46] to me.
[51:48] Because I'm inside your dream,
[51:51] I am part of that prathibhasika
[51:55] satta. So, to me, everything in the
[51:59] dream seems absolutely real and solid.
[52:04] And suppose I were to ask, "Huh,
[52:07] I wonder what that's made of?"
[52:12] But what is What is it made of?
[52:16] It's your dream.
[52:18] It's made of you. It's made of your
[52:20] dream stuff.
[52:23] What is this made of?
[52:26] Same. Dream stuff.
[52:29] So, now suppose I'm a very devotional
[52:31] person, so I say, "Well, there is a God.
[52:35] There is a creator
[52:37] of this universe.
[52:39] That creator of the universe is
[52:43] in
[52:44] this wall.
[52:46] The creator of this dream universe
[52:48] is in
[52:50] this body.
[52:54] Suppose I ask This is one of the the
[52:56] questions that's always asked in the in
[52:59] every tradition.
[53:01] And that is
[53:02] if I were to ask the question,
[53:04] "Where
[53:06] is God?"
[53:07] Remember, I'm your dream character.
[53:10] "Where is God?
[53:13] Where should I look?"
[53:17] Isn't it true
[53:18] that everything I experience
[53:22] is nothing but God? As Pujya Swami said,
[53:25] not one God, only
[53:28] God, only Ishvara. Not one Ishvara, only
[53:31] Ishvara. So, everything I experience
[53:36] is you,
[53:39] the dreamer.
[53:40] This is the typical story. You know, the
[53:43] the uh uh
[53:45] somebody comes to the uh the uh Swami
[53:47] and says, "Swami Ji, have you seen God?"
[53:51] And the Swami says,
[53:52] "Of course."
[53:54] And the person says, "Where?"
[53:58] And the Swami replies, "I'm looking at
[54:00] God right now."
[54:04] [laughter]
[54:05] Perfect.
[54:07] Absolutely
[54:09] perfect.
[54:11] So,
[54:13] if Now now we're starting to get the
[54:15] distinction
[54:17] on and how this Casper idea is so
[54:20] ridiculous.
[54:22] When we say,
[54:24] "Ishvara is in everything."
[54:28] not as a separate entity.
[54:30] There's only Ishvara.
[54:33] So, therefore, everything
[54:36] Go back to the uh the example. This is
[54:39] your dream.
[54:40] I am a a character in your dream.
[54:43] Everything I experience is nothing but
[54:46] Ishvara. Do I have to go to Mount
[54:49] Kailash to find
[54:51] Ishvara or do I have to go to a mandir?
[54:55] You know, where where
[54:56] where should I go
[54:59] for the sake of having an intimate
[55:02] relationship with Ishvara?
[55:04] All this is Ishvara. The intimacy is
[55:07] born of proper understanding.
[55:11] And um
[55:13] that's another that's another whole
[55:14] topic, which we're going to stay away
[55:15] from. Devotion is a is a huge topic. Um
[55:19] but it's not not for right now.
[55:21] Um
[55:23] Go back to that question. Where
[55:27] is God?
[55:29] We say,
[55:31] "Ishvara."
[55:32] And we we use the fancy term sarva
[55:35] vyapaka, all pervasive.
[55:39] Ishvara is all pervasive.
[55:42] That means
[55:43] Ishvara pervades the universe, just as
[55:45] you, the dreamer,
[55:48] you pervade your dream world, right?
[55:50] You are inside that dream tree, you're
[55:53] inside the dream wall, you're inside the
[55:57] dream Swami.
[56:00] So, you pervade your dream world, not
[56:04] like this Casper the ghost, you pervade
[56:07] the dream world because you are the
[56:10] upadana
[56:11] karana for the dream world. Got it? In
[56:15] the same way, Ishvara pervades the
[56:18] universe, not because he's a Casper the
[56:20] ghost, but Ishvara pervades the universe
[56:23] because Ishvara is the upadana karana.
[56:28] Now,
[56:30] take it another step. We say then,
[56:32] Ishvara pervades
[56:35] the universe. There's so
[56:38] as as
[56:39] profound as it sounds,
[56:42] there's a huge defect in that statement.
[56:46] Consider this.
[56:48] Space
[56:50] fills this room.
[56:53] Space pervades
[56:56] this room. Right?
[57:00] But, space doesn't stop at the walls of
[57:04] the room.
[57:05] Space is in the wall, space is beyond
[57:09] the walls.
[57:11] Suppose we shift our perspective,
[57:13] certainly we can say that space is in
[57:16] the room and pervades the room,
[57:20] but wouldn't it be more correct to say
[57:24] that the room is in space?
[57:29] Nice twist.
[57:32] To say space is in the room is correct.
[57:35] To say the room is in space is much more
[57:39] correct.
[57:43] You see where this is going?
[57:45] To say Ishvara pervades the universe is
[57:49] correct.
[57:52] To say the universe is in Ishvara
[57:56] is far more correct, far more
[57:58] meaningful.
[58:01] So,
[58:02] Ish- the universe exists
[58:05] within Ishvara
[58:08] just as your dream world exists
[58:14] within you.
[58:16] Perfect. This dream metaphor is it's
[58:21] we can always find some flaws,
[58:24] but so far it really, really helps to
[58:29] understand who and what is Ishvara.
[58:34] So, what we want to do here.
[58:42] So, I'm I'm trying to make some
[58:44] decisions. Just a a heads-up, we're not
[58:46] going to meet for the next two weeks,
[58:49] right?
[58:50] Because next two Mondays are Christmas
[58:54] Day and New Year's Day.
[58:56] So, I'm kind of planning what what to to
[58:59] include now and what to defer till after
[59:03] that break and and I don't want to split
[59:05] too much too much material
[59:08] on on both sides.
[59:11] Okay. There there's
[59:13] more and including more use of the dream
[59:17] metaphor, but but let's set that aside
[59:20] now so we can come back to it at a nice
[59:22] nice breaking point. We now have the
[59:24] basis of all three of these metaphors,
[59:26] the pot metaphor, the spider metaphor,
[59:29] the dream metaphor.
[59:32] And now, [clears throat] set that aside
[59:34] and and let's just reflect a little bit
[59:36] on tonight's discussion. We've been
[59:39] talking for more than an hour about
[59:42] Ishvara.
[59:43] In 1 hour of discussion about Ishvara,
[59:46] what have I asked you to believe?
[59:50] Isn't that interesting?
[59:54] We've been talking about Ishvara for an
[59:56] hour
[59:58] and you weren't asked to believe a
[01:00:00] thing.
[01:00:03] That's something remarkable about this
[01:00:05] tradition.
[01:00:06] This is a tradition which
[01:00:09] invites you to understand who and what
[01:00:13] is Ishvara and doesn't
[01:00:16] force any particular belief down your
[01:00:20] throat. I'll just share a quick anecdote
[01:00:23] with you.
[01:00:25] When I was When I was a young man, I was
[01:00:27] I I said before, I was raised in a Roman
[01:00:29] Catholic tradition. By the time I was a
[01:00:31] teenager, I was allergic to religion as
[01:00:34] many teenagers uh become.
[01:00:37] And then in my early 20s, this is when
[01:00:40] my spiritual quest began.
[01:00:42] And
[01:00:44] when I when I came to the teachings of
[01:00:47] Advaita Vedanta, actually in the early
[01:00:49] days through the um
[01:00:51] Ramakrishna Mission. In this country,
[01:00:53] they call it Vedanta Society. So, I was
[01:00:55] attending classes
[01:00:57] uh that their their Swamis taught. And
[01:01:00] one thing very remarkable for me as a
[01:01:02] young spiritual seeker is
[01:01:05] they weren't telling me what to believe.
[01:01:09] And how refreshing that was to me
[01:01:12] because I was totally turned off by the
[01:01:15] religion of my childhood that told me
[01:01:18] what to believe but gave me these
[01:01:20] ridiculous things to believe.
[01:01:23] You know, God is one and then Father,
[01:01:25] Son, Holy Spirit and and Casper and all
[01:01:29] of this stuff.
[01:01:31] Or one thing that drove me crazy, some
[01:01:33] of the things they taught me
[01:01:36] that my non-Catholic
[01:01:38] friends would not go to heaven.
[01:01:42] I could I just couldn't get that. Not
[01:01:46] only non-Christian friends.
[01:01:49] Non-Catholic friends.
[01:01:54] I suppose they assumed I didn't have any
[01:01:56] non-Christian friends. I don't know.
[01:02:01] But anyway,
[01:02:03] had there been
[01:02:05] a system of beliefs that were thrust
[01:02:09] upon me as a young man, I would have
[01:02:13] walked away from that at that time. I
[01:02:16] certainly wouldn't be sitting here.
[01:02:18] This
[01:02:20] is one of the absolutely unique features
[01:02:24] of the of Vedanta in particular and the
[01:02:27] Hindu tradition in general.
[01:02:30] It's absolutely true that religion for
[01:02:33] the vast majority of Hindus is based on
[01:02:36] belief. Absolutely true.
[01:02:39] And that's okay.
[01:02:40] It's it works for them.
[01:02:42] The beliefs at at least I have to
[01:02:45] I suppose I'm a little biased. If you're
[01:02:48] going to believe in something, should
[01:02:50] you believe in something that's silly or
[01:02:53] should you believe in something that's
[01:02:55] at least reasonable?
[01:02:57] So,
[01:02:58] from my biased perspective,
[01:03:01] some other religious traditions, their
[01:03:04] beliefs are just silly.
[01:03:06] So, here at least we have a a tradition
[01:03:08] which has reasonable beliefs,
[01:03:12] but they're they're still beliefs.
[01:03:14] You know, to believe Brahmaji as creator
[01:03:17] and
[01:03:18] Vishnu sustainer, Shiva destroyer. And
[01:03:21] then And then they also believe that the
[01:03:22] three are one. And
[01:03:24] if you ask the the simple Hindu, how how
[01:03:27] is it that you say God is one, but
[01:03:29] you're praying to Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva,
[01:03:31] you're praying to Lakshmi, Saraswati,
[01:03:34] you know, Rama, Krishna, you're praying
[01:03:35] all this. And you ask the the simple,
[01:03:38] not educated Hindu, and he said, "Yeah,
[01:03:41] God is one. I pray God in all these
[01:03:42] ways."
[01:03:44] It's fine.
[01:03:45] [laughter]
[01:03:46] There's
[01:03:47] There's no problem. There's no problem
[01:03:49] because it's a matter of belief.
[01:03:52] And And at that level, there's no
[01:03:54] problem. But
[01:03:56] for those who want, or I should say for
[01:03:59] those who need, for those like me who
[01:04:03] could not settle with belief, belief
[01:04:06] didn't work for me at all. And that's
[01:04:08] [snorts] true for a great number of
[01:04:09] modern educated people.
[01:04:12] We can no longer in modern times, we can
[01:04:16] no longer depend on belief and belief
[01:04:19] alone to be the basis for religion and
[01:04:24] prayer life. So, here we have a
[01:04:26] tradition
[01:04:29] which says
[01:04:31] you don't have to believe.
[01:04:33] You do have to sincerely inquire and be
[01:04:38] ready to understand.
[01:04:40] That is remarkable. That is unique. To
[01:04:43] be honest, I don't know of any other
[01:04:46] religious tradition that has this
[01:04:48] particular approach. It's very much
[01:04:51] underappreciated, the uniqueness of this
[01:04:54] approach to If we call If we want to
[01:04:56] call it theology, it's a unique approach
[01:05:00] to theology that presents a series of
[01:05:04] reasonable beliefs
[01:05:07] and simultaneously
[01:05:10] presents teachings like [snorts] what
[01:05:13] we've seen tonight that go beyond these
[01:05:16] beliefs and invite us to actually
[01:05:19] understand who and what that that
[01:05:22] Ishwara is.
[01:05:24] We'll end with a joke. Um
[01:05:27] years ago when I was traveling around,
[01:05:30] I would sometimes be invited to these
[01:05:32] Unitarian churches. Unitarian is a very
[01:05:36] interesting group. They're
[01:05:38] they're not exact they're not really
[01:05:40] speaking they're not Christian.
[01:05:42] And many Christians will go to Unitarian
[01:05:44] churches, but they're not Christian.
[01:05:46] That really
[01:05:47] it's not a Christian faith. And so
[01:05:49] they're interested in all religions. So
[01:05:51] when they find out the Swami is around
[01:05:53] and they invite me to come and give a
[01:05:55] talk. Anyway, in this in here's the
[01:05:59] interesting thing with the Unitarians is
[01:06:03] [clears throat]
[01:06:04] um they kind of reject all beliefs.
[01:06:09] But at the same time, they're interested
[01:06:12] in learning about who and what is God
[01:06:15] and that's why they invite different
[01:06:17] people from different traditions.
[01:06:20] Anyway, the this this is I need this
[01:06:22] introduction cuz the joke is sarcastic,
[01:06:25] but it's their joke. So don't blame me.
[01:06:29] This is their joke.
[01:06:32] And the joke is how does a Unitarian
[01:06:36] begin her prayers?
[01:06:39] This is their joke. So she begins her
[01:06:42] prayers
[01:06:43] [clears throat]
[01:06:45] to whom it may concern.
[01:06:50] Now
[01:06:51] [laughter]
[01:06:55] you know, that that
[01:06:57] that shows the dilemma of modern times
[01:07:01] because belief has ceased to be
[01:07:05] operative for them.
[01:07:07] So if you think, you know, several
[01:07:08] hundred years ago, you know,
[01:07:11] we were all all Western and Eastern
[01:07:13] cultures, it was all 100% belief.
[01:07:17] Even Western Europe was was rabidly
[01:07:20] Christian until just several hundred
[01:07:24] years ago,
[01:07:25] until the Enlightenment.
[01:07:27] So, I mean, you know, it was just pure
[01:07:30] blind faith. In what In European
[01:07:33] culture, as it was in India, as it was
[01:07:35] in China, as it where it was in every
[01:07:37] corner. Course, now in the last few
[01:07:40] hundred years, our cultures have changed
[01:07:42] dramatically, and this reliance on just
[01:07:47] belief has crumbled.
[01:07:50] But, now the problem is,
[01:07:52] what will take its place?
[01:07:56] And the Unitarian church is a little bit
[01:07:59] of an example to show how
[01:08:03] Western culture is in a little bit of
[01:08:05] trouble.
[01:08:07] Cuz as their beliefs crumble,
[01:08:11] what will take its place?
[01:08:15] Difficult.
[01:08:16] Extremely difficult.
[01:08:18] As opposed to,
[01:08:20] let's take
[01:08:21] Indian culture, Hindu culture. So, as
[01:08:25] Hindus become more and more educated and
[01:08:28] Westernized and skeptical,
[01:08:31] then these beliefs will continue to
[01:08:32] crumble.
[01:08:35] Is it a problem?
[01:08:37] It's not a problem.
[01:08:39] That's amazing. That's something really
[01:08:42] unique. Okay, we'll we'll end here
[01:08:45] and pick it up when we continue.
[01:08:49] Om Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinaha
[01:08:54] Sarve Santu Niramayaha
[01:08:59] Sarve Bhadrani Pashyantu
[01:09:03] Ma Kaschit
[01:09:05] niramayah, sarve
[01:09:07] bhadrani
[01:09:08] pashyantu, ma kashchit
[01:09:10] duhkha bhag bhavet. Asato ma
[01:09:14] sad gamaya,
[01:09:15] tamaso ma
[01:09:17] jyotir
[01:09:18] gamaya, mrtyor
[01:09:20] ma
[01:09:21] amrtam gamaya. Om
[01:09:25] shanti
[01:09:26] shanti shantihi.