# Intro to Vedanta part 11: Three States of Experience

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVGKsu4LmsE

[00:18] They just shanty shanty.
[00:29] Very good.
[00:29] Welcome back.
[00:33] We continue our current inquiry which we'll call atma vichara as we've called it before.
[00:38] Vichara means inquiry.
[00:45] Atma in is into one's own self into one's own true nature.
[00:48] Um that's not the only practice in advant but it is a prominent one and maybe the most important one.
[00:55] So we're spending a good deal of time on it.
[01:00] It needs a good deal of time on it of on it.
[01:03] It's a very important topic.
[01:05] But there are a number of approaches to this topic.
[01:09] We've taken several already to distinguish atma
[01:14] through that uh dria.
[01:17] va to distinguish between subject and object was a very important approach or technique.
[01:24] We applied that to distinguishing the three sharas stool shar.
[01:31] We also applied that to distinguishing the pancha koshas as being separate as being independent as being as we said they were each uh kosha became a locus of identification.
[01:46] Tonight we're going to take up another approach to this inquiry.
[01:53] It's like there are I guess if you're going up the uh mountain side, there are uh several roots up that mountain side.
[02:00] You get up on the top any way you go, but you can taking different routes will give you different uh scenery I suppose.
[02:11] So, um, having taken several roots, the route
[02:16] we're taking today has a special name and we're going to be talking about the Aasta tria.
[02:28] Pro you probably recognize tria as three.
[02:35] Aasta means state of experience.
[02:40] And by state of experience we specifically mean one of three.
[02:46] Jagrat the waking state.
[02:53] swapna the dream state.
[03:02] That's good.
[03:06] All right.
[03:10] We'll do a little better than that.
[03:10] My Sanskrit is spelled nicely and sushupti
[03:17] is deep sleep, dreamless sleep.
[03:21] All right.
[03:24] So these three states are more or less familiar to you all.
[03:28] Jagr is what we're experiencing right now.
[03:31] Swapna is your dreams and sushupti refers to the deep dreamless sleep that you also experience each night.
[03:42] Every night most of you know we go through cycles dream and deep sleep dream and deep sleep and waking up also go to the bathroom or whatever you so every night is is a cycle like that.
[03:54] So in fact we cycle between all three of these.
[03:57] Right now we're in Jagrat.
[03:59] In a few hours we'll be in Swapna and Sushukti and tomorrow morning we'll be back to Jagrat.
[04:04] So we want to talk about about this.
[04:06] Um before we dive in let let's be very clear about one one thing.
[04:13] Any any experience you can have will fall
[04:20] into one of these three categories.
[04:25] Any experience you've had from childhood on and to the end of your life, it that experience will either be in the waking state, the dream state, or the deep sleep state.
[04:37] Um, if somebody says, "What about um samadhi?"
[04:44] Well, if you're awake in meditation, then samadhi would definitely be included in chakrat.
[04:50] If on the other hand your samadei is some people's samadei is kind of like like what we call sushupti then we call it what it is.
[05:02] If it's sushupti, it's sushupti.
[05:06] Um, any kind of so-called mystical experience, again, probably jagrat.
[05:08] Um, although could be a swapna if you have a mystical experience while you're dreaming.
[05:17] Um, some of you have have heard terms like a
[05:23] transcendental state of experience, a state that transcends these three.
[05:32] And we're actually going to get into that topic quite deeply today.
[05:37] And what we're going to learn is that which transcends these three is not a state of experience at all.
[05:47] There is something that transcends these three, but it's not something that you experience.
[05:53] All of these terms, describe kinds of experience.
[06:00] Well, you've probably figured out by now that what's left out is atma, the true self consciousness, which is the one who well actually we're going to develop that right now.
[06:12] So, so just just to uh hold as an as an opening point for our inquiry.
[06:17] Is there a fourth state of
[06:24] experience transcending these three beyond these three as is commonly held commonly but incorrectly held for reasons that we're going to see by the end of the class.
[06:40] Okay.
[06:40] So let's begin by identifying your relationship to these three and we can Sanskrit the terminology of Sanskrit allows us a great deal of so with regard to you we can say that you are the aasta this forms a long compound word sakshi we've used this word sakshi before to mean a wearful witness witness.
[07:11] You are the sakshi, the con conscious observer is a fine translation.
[07:14] A wearful witness is a fine translation.
[07:17] I you can make up others if you can.
[07:21] Um you are the one.
[07:26] We've already discussed in several prior classes how you are the unchanging consciousness by whom the changing conditions of your mind are known.
[07:37] We've gone into that in great deal.
[07:40] You are the unchanging consciousness who is the sakshi, the awareful witness of the changing conditions of your mind.
[07:51] One way of categorizing the changing conditions of your mind is to say sometimes your mind is in jagraasta waking state.
[07:55] Sometimes your mind is in swapna.
[07:59] Sometimes your mind is in sushupa.
[08:02] It's your mind that goes through these different states of experience.
[08:05] And who you are is the aasta sakshi that conscious observer awareful witness revealing whatever is happening in your mind in jagrit and swapna and
[08:27] revealing the absence of activities in sushuti.
[08:32] You are that unchanging consciousness.
[08:35] Again, Sakshi is you.
[08:37] We've discussed at length how you don't have consciousness.
[08:39] You are that consciousness.
[08:42] You are that observer.
[08:45] So, right now, you observe whatever is happening in the waking state.
[08:47] The mind is very active.
[08:49] All kinds of things are going on.
[08:51] Everything that happens in your mind is revealed by your consciousness.
[08:54] Tonight, when you're dreaming, your dream experiences will be revealed by that same consciousness.
[08:59] And then in deep sleep, the same unchanging consciousness reveals the absence of activity in your mind.
[09:08] Now one way of seeing this is look look we've had several discussions to establish how you remain fully conscious in deep sleep.
[09:21] Sushupti here's another another point of support.
[09:28] How during the day, how many visi how many mental events would you estimate that are witnessed by you Sakshi?
[09:42] Couldn't even even begin to count.
[09:45] I mean, it would be not in the thousands.
[09:48] It would be many more than, you know, certainly more than a thousand.
[09:52] Many, many thousands of mental events.
[09:55] Remember mental events includes everything you perceive, everything you see, hear, taste, smell or touch, includes all of your thoughts, all of your cognitions, includes all of your emotions.
[10:04] So let's that that will certainly number in the thousands each day.
[10:10] So each day during jagrat austa you observe thousands of vis in your dream in your dreams you'll also witness thousands of uh vis during a dream during any number of dreams and
[10:30] Consider this consciousness is alert.
[10:36] To thousands of in the waking state.
[10:40] To further thousands of vis.
[10:46] Doesn't it sound unreasonable to say that after having observed so many thousands of visi mental changes that suddenly this consciousness flips off?
[10:57] Doesn't that begin to seem unreasonable?
[11:00] And this is logical support for what what the ancient rishies taught.
[11:02] What the ancient rishies taught is that consciousness is unchanging and doesn't flip off.
[11:09] So that which is absolutely present, continuously present during the waking and dream states, it's unreasonable to conclude that it doesn't continue in the deep sleep state or to make it a positive sentence.
[11:27] Is perfectly reasonable to assume that the continuity
[11:32] of consciousness is maintained in the state of deep sleep.
[11:34] There's a nice Sanskrit expression you don't need to worry about expression but I want to share it with you.
[11:38] It's called alupa dri.
[11:43] We've already used the word dick as seer you knows my joke [laughter]
[11:50] actually this is pa swami dianandanda's joke alupta means that which is never lost.
[11:57] La means something that gets lost.
[12:00] Alupa that which is never lost.
[12:03] So alupa refers to a conscious observer which never blinks off which never loses continuity.
[12:10] And the reason Gita was was laughing is I shared in a class many must have been more than a few years ago uh when Puja Swami gi taught this very topic he likes to illustrate things in unique ways.
[12:25] One of the unique things that he did in this particular class is he created a mudra to demonstrate alupa
[12:37] you just as dakshina morti has this this nana mudra which he which puja swam gi would explain so nicely so now in this one class this was during our our three-year course in Pennsylvania in the 1980s so he he demonstrated to us the alupa mudra which means unceasing seeing seeing which never.
[13:04] So he demonstrated like this.
[13:08] [laughter]
[13:11] and we all roared.
[13:14] [laughter]
[13:15] you know this very serious looking swami suddenly w
[13:20] [snorts]
[13:21] so it's nice it's an image that will get burnt into your mind which is a nice image to help us understand this aasta sakshi this aasta triaakshi the awareful witness of the three states of
[13:38] experience as this alupadric unseen releasing consciousness that which never turns off, never blinks off.
[13:49] Now what about this fourth?
[13:54] So the fourth comes from uh a teaching in the famous Mandukia upanishad.
[14:00] Of all the upanishads, this manduka is unique in several ways.
[14:07] One is it's probably the shortest.
[14:10] It's only 12 mantras.
[14:14] Tiny, tiny, tiny.
[14:17] But in those 12 mantras, it unfolds something of really staggering importance having to do with this austraa and it introduces what it calls chhatura the fourth.
[14:35] So it talks about a vast sakshi and then
[14:38] it talks about the three states jagratna sushupti and it talks about a of fourth
[14:44] let's see let's see what it what it what
[14:47] it refers to the the basic idea of the
[14:50] mandukia upanished is it uses the sound
[14:55] as a symbol to help us understand this
[15:00] topic and let me show you how that
[15:01] works.
[15:08] There's a grammatical rule which says
[15:12] that uh plus u is o.
[15:18] The grammatical rule uh plus u is o.
[15:23] That is an an uh followed by an u necessarily in the
[15:26] Sanskrit combine and form uh
[15:32] o.
[15:36] And the reason this is important is we can then grammatically deconstruct
[15:40] om into three parts a u and m.
[15:47] Now please don't get the wrong idea.
[15:50] I see people writing om like this nowadays
[15:53] which is absolutely incorrect.
[15:55] I just said uh and u if they're side by side
[15:58] they must coalesce.
[16:01] They can't remain separate.
[16:04] Sanskrit doesn't allow that.
[16:04] So to write a to write in this fashion
[16:07] is absolutely incorrect.
[16:09] There's abs it's you know for anyone who knows
[16:11] Sanskrit this is abhorren because it violates certain important rules.
[16:17] But this is a grammatical
[16:20] deconstruction
[16:22] done for symbolic reasons.
[16:26] And maybe people see this and then they pick up on it.
[16:28] They like the way it looks like the way it sounds.
[16:30] Anyway, it's it's not meant to represent M.
[16:32] It's meant for this grammatical uh deconstruction.
[16:38] And the reason for this grammatical deconstruction is the
[16:43] uh is assumed to is assigned to Jagrat astar.
[16:47] The U is assigned to swapna
[16:53] and the m is assigned to sushupi astar.
[16:59] This is following the methodology of
[17:00] that mandukia
[17:02] upanishad.
[17:05] And the basis for this is when you're chanting om you start uh
[17:08] when you start chant om the sound starts down here which is an h sound.
[17:11] Then very quickly it gets rounded off into the o
[17:15] and then of course it ends with h begins with uh has u or o in the middle and
[17:21] ends with m.
[17:25] That's the sequence as you're chanting it.
[17:29] Well, that sort of represents our sequence.
[17:32] We talked about going through this cycle each day.
[17:34] Right now, we're cycled into jagrat.
[17:36] Later, we'll cycle into swapna and later into
[17:43] sushupti.
[17:46] Then tomorrow morning again jagrat.
[17:50] So if you think about this cycle of of jagrat swapna and sushupti followed by jagrat swapna and sushupti that can be represented by chanting om or really in chanting it's when you chant om.
[18:15] So every recitation of Om then represents one cycle through jagrat swapna and sushupti.
[18:25] Now where does the fourth come in and that's the important topic of the mandukya upanishad and it's a trick and that's why this upanishad is so important.
[18:40] If [snorts] you're chanting om
[18:45] By the way, there's a traditional teaching that says you shouldn't chant Om om unless you're ready for the consequences.
[18:54] Om is said to be the sasa mantra.
[19:00] So they warn you if you go on chanting om you'll want to leave everything behind.
[19:05] I don't think that's necessarily true but anyway that's a traditional teaching.
[19:10] So when you're chanting om the observation is between the end of this m and the beginning of the uh remember this o gets deconstructed into a and u so before after the end of one ohm and before the beginning of the next ohm there's a gap.
[19:38] Once again after the end of one ohm before the beginning of the next tone.
[19:43] There is a gap.
[19:43] We might say it's a gap
[19:47] of silence.
[19:49] But silence implies nothing.
[19:55] And what do they say?
[19:58] Nature abhores a vacuum.
[19:59] There is no nothing.
[20:04] There's no nothing in the vacuum of space.
[20:09] And in fact even from this I don't bore you with all this science even in the vacuum of space you know vidantan would say there's Brahman is still there consciousness is still there even modern modern uh quantum physics now says empty space is not empty
[20:28] it's buzzing with uh quantum particles they use all this language so there is no nothing
[20:37] odd statement but It's very true.
[20:40] Which means in this gap between ohms, there's no nothing.
[20:44] There's a something.
[20:48] here's how the mandukia upanishad
[20:52] describes it.
[20:54] When you are chanting,
[20:57] first of all, we presume you're going to
[20:59] be doing this silently in your mind as
[21:02] japa is is meant to be done. And you can
[21:06] do it out loud or softly. There are the
[21:08] three kinds of japa. To do it out loud,
[21:11] to do it softly, to do it silently, but
[21:13] to do it silently is the goal. So when
[21:17] you're chanting om silently,
[21:21] each m arises
[21:24] in your mind.
[21:27] The uh arises in your mind.
[21:31] The uh is sustained in your mind.
[21:37] And then the m resounds
[21:42] back in
[21:43] a arises.
[21:46] Uh is sustained
[21:48] and with m we find resolution. It arises
[21:54] and resolves.
[21:56] A arises oo is maintained.
[22:00] M resolves.
[22:03] Uh arises from what?
[22:06] U is maintained by what?
[22:10] Ma resolves
[22:12] into what? I think you can answer that.
[22:15] Consciousness. Sakshi you
[22:18] uh arises in your consciousness.
[22:22] U is maintained in your consciousness.
[22:27] M resolves into your
[22:30] consciousness.
[22:33] So from consciousness uh arises
[22:37] in consciousness u is maintained and in
[22:41] back into consciousness m resolves
[22:46] that consciousness
[22:48] is a fourth.
[22:52] But do you see the problem? It is it is
[22:55] fourth but it's not four it's not four
[23:01] in addition to three but rather it is
[23:06] the one because of which the other three
[23:10] exist.
[23:12] Does that make sense?
[23:14] So the fourth is consciousness.
[23:19] Waking, dream and deep sleep are states
[23:21] of experience
[23:23] and there is one consciousness by which
[23:27] all three states are known. So how do we
[23:30] count? One state of experience jagrat.
[23:33] Two states of experience swapna. Three
[23:36] states of experience
[23:39] sushupti. And then finally consciousness
[23:43] which is not a state of experience but
[23:47] is that because of which the other three
[23:49] exist. So here's the problem. You know
[23:53] people like to as soon as we get numbers
[23:56] people like to be mathematical.
[23:59] And so here we have one, two, three.
[24:01] Three pieces of a pie.
[24:05] And they say, "No, no, there are four."
[24:09] There are four.
[24:11] One, two, three,
[24:15] four. [laughter]
[24:18] No problem.
[24:20] There are four.
[24:23] But notice the this is the one because
[24:28] of which the other three exist.
[24:32] So now do you see the confusion when
[24:35] people talk of a fourth state of
[24:39] experience?
[24:40] We don't have a fourth state of the
[24:42] fourth slice of pie.
[24:45] We don't have a fourth in addition to
[24:48] these three. We said any experience you
[24:50] have will find its way into one or the
[24:53] other. Coma I suppose you can put down
[24:56] here dementia maybe partially in swapna
[25:00] partially in jagura any state of
[25:02] experience will be in one or the other
[25:05] of these of these three. There is no
[25:09] fourth state of experience.
[25:13] There is only
[25:16] three states of experience
[25:19] revealed by one consciousness and that
[25:24] one consciousness is what the famous
[25:27] mandukia upanished refers to as the
[25:30] fourth. Unfortunately this is often
[25:34] misunderstood. In fact, this is one of
[25:37] the uh teachings, I'm afraid, where the
[25:40] misunderstandings
[25:42] outnumber the correct
[25:44] understandings. It seems like that
[25:46] sometimes. You see these expressions so
[25:48] often. And here's the problem.
[25:52] If if somebody tells you there is a
[25:55] transcendent state of experience when
[25:59] you hear this there's a transcendent
[26:02] experience
[26:04] in deep meditation
[26:07] you can have this transcendent
[26:10] experience. You hear that it sounds
[26:14] really cool, really interesting, really
[26:16] intriguing and then you meditate and
[26:19] meditate.
[26:20] So when you're told there is a
[26:23] transcendent state of experience and you
[26:26] must experience that for the sake of
[26:28] enlightenment, you are now put on a path
[26:34] which never is fruitful.
[26:38] Look at this. If you're seeking a
[26:40] transcendent experience
[26:43] based on what we've just discussed, all
[26:46] experiences are either jagrat swap,
[26:49] sushupti. There is no fourth kind or
[26:52] category of experience. There is no
[26:57] transcendent
[26:59] experience. There is samadhi but samadhi
[27:02] is part of jagraasta.
[27:05] Absolutely. In fact, Patanjali gives
[27:09] seven different kinds of samadi, not
[27:12] one. So, samadhi is a fact and samadhi
[27:16] is extremely helpful. But samadhi is
[27:19] part of jagrat of vista. You when you're
[27:22] meditating, you have to be awake. But
[27:25] look what happens when people are told
[27:27] you have to have this transcendent
[27:30] experience. You have to transcend the
[27:32] mind.
[27:35] You see the problem with that statement?
[27:37] All experience takes place where?
[27:41] In the mind.
[27:43] So the moment you transcend the mind,
[27:46] experience comes to an end.
[27:49] What does that mean then?
[27:52] These are very very common problems in
[27:57] vdanta today. In fact, his problems have
[28:00] become so prevalent that some people
[28:03] have coined the term neoant
[28:07] to refer to this distorted form of
[28:11] adwita vanta that's become quite popular
[28:15] as it were lots of books and lots of
[28:18] teachers who are who are teaching this
[28:21] and I'm not criticizing them. They're
[28:23] all well intended. They just
[28:25] unfortunately didn't study properly.
[28:27] they didn't have access to proper
[28:30] scriptures and proper teachers and they
[28:33] basically they didn't get it quite
[28:35] right.
[28:37] So the consequence though for us when we
[28:39] hear these teachings and read these
[28:41] teachings if we hear that term
[28:44] transcendent experience and transcend
[28:47] the mind and if we take that seriously
[28:50] then well now what I just want to check
[28:54] and it just came back no
[28:58] it's back
[29:02] nuts
[29:03] all right
[29:06] It can put you on this neverending
[29:10] search. By the way, I
[29:14] I did talk about Puja Swami G's search,
[29:17] right? This was crucial in his search.
[29:21] He started off with this idea that I
[29:26] have to have this transcendent
[29:28] experience and he meditated and
[29:30] meditated. He said he also did lots of
[29:33] pranayyama and he did all this so
[29:35] intensely and if you remember this I did
[29:38] tell you the story right I told you he
[29:40] was ready to give it all up he was so
[29:44] frustrated after 10 years of dedication
[29:47] exclusively to this vanta he was ready
[29:50] to walk away from it that's the kind of
[29:53] harm that can be caused if our search is
[29:58] misdirected Our
[30:01] search, let's be very clear, our search
[30:04] is not for any kind of experience
[30:09] because experience comes and goes.
[30:13] For the sake of argument, suppose you
[30:15] were to have a transcendent experience,
[30:17] if there is such a thing, and there
[30:19] isn't. But if if you have some kind of
[30:22] unique experience, how long does it
[30:25] last?
[30:26] A while. Then when it's over then what?
[30:30] It's gone. [laughter]
[30:33] So what will you if if enlightenment
[30:36] depends on a transcendent experience
[30:39] then you're enlightened while you're
[30:42] having a transcendent experience and
[30:44] when the transcendent experience is over
[30:48] you say I used to be enlightened.
[30:51] [laughter]
[30:54] How ridiculous is that?
[30:57] All right.
[30:58] Okay. Are we are we done with this? Uh
[31:00] fourth.
[31:03] So no fourth state of experience. No
[31:07] transcendent experience. What uh what
[31:10] are we after? We're not after an
[31:13] experience. All experience is trans is
[31:16] transient.
[31:18] The value of an experience is only what
[31:20] we can learn from an experience. If we
[31:24] have an experience and we learn nothing
[31:26] from it and then the experience is gone,
[31:31] what have we accomplished?
[31:34] And
[31:36] we we've accomplished nothing. So
[31:40] what we seek in adwita vanta is a
[31:45] particular kind of knowledge
[31:49] that can remove that veil of ignorance
[31:52] that covers your true nature as such an
[31:58] you understand yourself to be conscious
[32:00] and existent but you don't understand
[32:02] your consciousness to be unchanging
[32:05] unborn uncreated. You don't understand
[32:09] your consciousness to be boundaryless,
[32:11] limitless. Part of it is covered by that
[32:15] veil. Remember the the uh the rope in
[32:18] the alley was partially obscured by
[32:20] darkness. In the same way, your true
[32:23] nature is partially obscured by the veil
[32:25] of ignorance. And our goal is to remove
[32:28] that veil of ignorance. To reveal your
[32:31] true nature fully and completely. To
[32:33] remove ignorance doesn't take an
[32:35] experience.
[32:37] Because you can have an experience and
[32:39] not know what you experienced.
[32:42] You can have an experience and not learn
[32:45] from it. So our goal is not experience.
[32:49] Our goal is knowledge. Can experience
[32:52] help us gain that knowledge? Sure,
[32:54] anything. So many things can help us
[32:57] gain knowledge. But let's be very clear.
[32:59] experience even some kind of mystical
[33:02] experience or samadhi cannot be the goal
[33:07] because all experience is transient on
[33:10] the other hand the removal of ignorance
[33:12] once ignorance is removed it doesn't pop
[33:15] up again you know with those dolls that
[33:19] you see in India with the round bottom
[33:20] you push it over and it pops up push it
[33:23] over and it pops up
[33:26] Ignorance isn't like that. [laughter]
[33:29] So these dowels pop up but once you
[33:32] destroy ignorance what's destroyed is
[33:34] destroyed. What's gone is gone. So our
[33:38] our pursuit then is not a pursuit of
[33:41] experience. It's a pursuit of knowledge.
[33:44] And this mandukia
[33:47] we've just been through is and its use
[33:51] of m in this uh in this way is very
[33:55] helpful. It's one of our main teaching
[33:58] methodologies that that uh we use.
[34:03] So
[34:05] to we're we're coming now towards the
[34:07] end of this part of the topic on atma
[34:10] vichada and there's yet more to consider
[34:17] part we've discussed this already in
[34:20] part let me let me uh remind you of the
[34:22] discussion we've had so far I think in
[34:25] one class I asked you where is
[34:28] consciousness located did we have that
[34:31] discussion No. Yes, I think so. Yeah.
[34:35] Where where is consciousness located?
[34:37] And you know, we we tend to have this
[34:40] feeling it's behind our eyeballs because
[34:44] we're very visual as people, but it's
[34:49] kind of silly to think it's behind, you
[34:52] know, if if your eyes were located in
[34:55] your knees,
[34:57] then
[34:59] your consciousness would be located in
[35:01] your knees. I suppose is all silly and
[35:04] we had this discussion where because
[35:07] we're such visual people we may get that
[35:10] sense but if we want to identify where
[35:14] consciousness is located location
[35:18] requires dimensions and this is the
[35:20] discussion we had before. So to be
[35:23] located in space, do you remember some
[35:26] math class had you talked about this
[35:28] cartisian
[35:29] system, coordinate system, there's an x
[35:32] and a y and a z. Remember that to locate
[35:37] any object in space, you have to define
[35:40] its cartisian coordinates. How boring.
[35:44] Gosh.
[35:46] Anyway, to locate something in space,
[35:48] you have to tell tell where is it? left
[35:51] to right, up and down, and front to
[35:53] back. And here's the problem. So, left
[35:58] to right refers to the dimension of
[36:01] width. Up and down refers to the
[36:04] dimension of height. Front to back
[36:07] refers to the dimension of depth. So,
[36:11] with regard to anything that has width
[36:13] and height and depth, we can talk about
[36:15] location.
[36:17] And then we had this interesting
[36:19] discussion when I when I asked you how
[36:21] tall
[36:23] is consciousness?
[36:26] How wide?
[36:28] And that led us very quickly
[36:31] to this rather startling conclusion. And
[36:34] if you think about it, it it's really
[36:36] quite startling.
[36:38] If consciousness has no dimensions,
[36:42] remember the consciousness we're talking
[36:44] about is the one who knows what's
[36:47] happening right now. Talking about you,
[36:50] the essence of who you are. So if
[36:53] consciousness has no dimensions like
[36:56] height, width, and depth, having no
[36:58] dimensions means having no edge.
[37:03] Having no edge means having no boundary.
[37:08] Having no boundary means boundaryless.
[37:12] Having no edge means having no limit.
[37:16] Having no limit means limitless.
[37:21] Boundaryless
[37:22] and limitless are words that mean the
[37:27] same as all pervasive.
[37:30] Right? Space has no edge, has no
[37:35] boundary, has no limit. Therefore, space
[37:39] is all pervasive.
[37:41] Consciousness has no edge, has no
[37:43] boundary, has no limit. Therefore,
[37:46] consciousness is all pervasive. Now, we
[37:50] get into some interesting stuff.
[37:55] My consciousness is all pervasive
[37:58] and your consciousness is all pervasive.
[38:02] That seems confusing.
[38:06] If my consciousness is all pervasive, it
[38:10] must be simultaneously present in my
[38:13] body and your body.
[38:16] If your consciousness is all pervasive,
[38:18] it must be simultaneously conscious in
[38:20] your body and mine.
[38:24] If that's true, then you should feel
[38:27] this [laughter]
[38:29] and I should feel the seat in which
[38:32] you're sitting. That's silly. We don't
[38:35] feel that. So how is it? If if your
[38:39] consciousness is all pervasive and my
[38:42] consciousness, it means pervading each
[38:45] other's bodies. Why don't we feel
[38:47] sensations in in each other's bodies?
[38:50] Well, to answer that question, we have
[38:52] to go back to what we discussed about
[38:55] sensation itself. We had a lot remember
[38:58] we talked about eyesight was such
[39:00] tremendous detail [snorts] and uh the
[39:03] the bottom line of that whole process
[39:06] was that your eyes are an instrument
[39:09] connected to your brain which give rise
[39:13] to vis
[39:15] in your mind right we don't need to go
[39:18] through that whole complicated process
[39:20] again but your eyeballs are instruments
[39:23] connected to your brain and the result
[39:25] of that complic licated mechanism is
[39:29] images arise in your mind. We
[39:32] distinguished images don't arise in your
[39:35] brain. What is in your brain is
[39:37] electrochemical activity.
[39:40] But an image of me right now arises in
[39:45] your mind. Which means your sense of
[39:50] sight
[39:52] culminates in creating an image in your
[39:56] mind of vi in your mind. Your all and
[39:59] not just your sense of sight. All five
[40:02] of our senses have the same function of
[40:05] creating vis in our minds. So your
[40:09] senses of sight, hearing, taste, touch
[40:11] and smell create vutis in your mind. My
[40:14] senses of sight, hearing, taste, touch
[40:17] and smell create vis in my mind. And now
[40:20] we can answer the question.
[40:26] My sensation
[40:28] creates vis.
[40:32] Your sensations create vis in your mind.
[40:36] Even though consciousness even though my
[40:39] consciousness pervades your body and
[40:41] your body per your consciousness
[40:43] pervades my body the vis are created in
[40:46] our minds
[40:48] and your mind is certainly different and
[40:52] separate from my mind. So that one is
[40:56] easy. Next one is not so easy.
[41:01] Here's here's the next part. Not only
[41:04] does my consciousness pervade your body,
[41:08] my consciousness is also present
[41:14] in your brain,
[41:17] present behind your mind.
[41:23] Your consciousness is also present in my
[41:26] brain, present behind my mind. Actually,
[41:30] I'm going to retract that. that's not
[41:33] going to be a helpful mode of
[41:35] explanation. So I'll come to the point
[41:38] in just in a little different way. There
[41:40] are several different ways of presenting
[41:42] that. Let me withdraw that statement.
[41:44] It's not going to prove useful. And
[41:47] remember the whole trick of these not
[41:50] trick the whole point of these teachings
[41:52] is a methodology meant to lead you
[41:56] someplace. So what I just started to
[41:59] pick up looks to me to be like a
[42:01] defective path methodology. So let us
[42:05] set it aside. Let's adopt a more
[42:07] traditional and proper methodology.
[42:11] How to distinguish two things
[42:15] which for all intents and purposes are
[42:19] identical. If we have two apples
[42:22] here, even if the apples are identical,
[42:27] it's easy to tell them apart.
[42:29] One is here, the other is
[42:33] there.
[42:35] The consciousness we're talking about is
[42:38] everywhere.
[42:41] Not only is it everywhere,
[42:44] but it has the same definition as being
[42:49] boundaryless,
[42:52] unccreated, unborn. By the way, notice
[42:55] these attributes.
[42:58] Boundaryless means without boundary.
[43:01] Uncreated means without creation.
[43:05] Unborn means without birth. Not affected
[43:09] by the mind means without any effect of
[43:11] the mind. Have you noticed that all
[43:14] these are negatives?
[43:17] We're saying what what con what atma is
[43:21] not.
[43:23] We're saying basically that atma
[43:28] has no specific qualities.
[43:32] A quality is something like red or blue,
[43:36] thin or thin or wide, etc., heavy,
[43:41] light. These are qualities. But doesn't
[43:45] make any sense to apply qualities like
[43:48] that to atma. In fact, in more technical
[43:52] terms, we would probably say that atma
[43:55] is nirona. Niruna meaning without
[43:58] qualities, without all these detailed
[44:00] qualities.
[44:02] So if you had two apples,
[44:05] this is just this will really stretch
[44:07] your mind. Suppose you had two apples,
[44:10] but they're nera apples.
[44:17] [laughter]
[44:18] Silly, I know, but you get the point. If
[44:21] the apples have no qualities whatsoever,
[44:24] you have nothing to refer to to tell one
[44:27] from the other. So if consciousness, if
[44:31] atma is nironuna, if it has no
[44:34] qualities, everything we use to describe
[44:38] consciousness is negative. When we say
[44:40] consciousness is such an s means unborn,
[44:46] uncreated, right?
[44:48] Chit means not juda like a chair.
[44:54] Ananda means boundaryless, limitless,
[44:57] full, complete. It turns out on analysis
[45:01] all the words we use to describe atma
[45:04] surupa the true nature of atma they're
[45:07] all negating words which is not
[45:09] surprising because the whole tradition
[45:12] has this approach ni
[45:16] it's all negation
[45:19] and why is that okay because all we're
[45:22] trying to do is negate something right
[45:25] all we're trying to do is negate the
[45:28] ignorance ance that covers atma.
[45:32] Remember we don't have to reach atma. We
[45:34] don't have to gain atma. We don't have
[45:36] to
[45:38] realize
[45:40] except to the extent that we have to
[45:43] remove the ignorance which partially
[45:46] covers our true nature. So the whole of
[45:49] vanta is removal. Negation
[45:53] negation ultimately of ignorance. But in
[45:56] our current context, we're negating any
[45:59] attributes or qualities associated with
[46:02] atma. And
[46:07] if atma if your consciousness is
[46:10] nironuna and all, let's just take two
[46:13] words nironuna and all pervasive. By the
[46:17] way, even the word all pervasive is a
[46:19] negative term, right? Why? All pervasive
[46:23] means having no boundaries.
[46:27] So even though it's a positive sounding
[46:30] word, it gets its meaning through
[46:33] negation. So let's just take these two
[46:35] words so we can get a little bit more uh
[46:37] concrete clear. So if your atma is
[46:41] nurguna, it's not green or blue. Oh, is
[46:45] your is your atma Indian and mine is
[46:47] American?
[46:49] It's silly, right?
[46:51] >> [snorts]
[46:52] >> Okay.
[46:53] Your atma's near. My atma's near. Your
[46:57] atma is all pervasive. My atma is all
[47:00] pervasive. How are we going to tell them
[47:02] apart?
[47:06] You can answer that question.
[47:08] They're not apart.
[47:12] There can if your consciousness is near
[47:16] and all pervasive and my consciousness
[47:19] is near and all pervasive, we're talking
[47:23] about exactly the same thing.
[47:27] And you might and what that leads us to
[47:30] is the fact that there is no your
[47:34] consciousness and my consciousness at
[47:38] all. There is only
[47:41] consciousness,
[47:43] one consciousness.
[47:47] This is also described in the manduka.
[47:53] This one consciousness
[47:57] being all pervasive
[48:00] is simultaneously
[48:02] manifest or reflected by your mind and
[48:07] my mind. The same consciousness which
[48:10] reveals your thoughts is the same
[48:14] consciousness that reveals my thoughts.
[48:17] One consciousness
[48:19] illumining the activities in your mind,
[48:22] the same consciousness illumining the
[48:25] thoughts in my mind. leading to the
[48:28] question of course well if the same
[48:31] consciousness reveals your thoughts and
[48:33] the same consciousness reveals my
[48:35] thoughts why don't I know your thoughts
[48:38] did we do this one before no okay then
[48:42] we have to do it now so first of all if
[48:46] we if we raise this question the same
[48:49] consciousness that reveals your thoughts
[48:51] is the same consciousness that reveals
[48:53] my thoughts then why don't I know your
[48:56] thoughts Why don't you know my thoughts?
[48:59] Before we answer the question, let's
[49:00] acknowledge that it's a really good
[49:02] thing
[49:05] that we can't know each. Can you imagine
[49:07] what life would be like if we
[49:09] immediately knew what everyone was
[49:11] thinking? You know, practically
[49:13] speaking, dealing with our own minds is
[49:15] a big enough challenge. [laughter]
[49:18] Can you imagine dealing with everyone
[49:21] else's minds as well? Anyway, this is
[49:23] just all silliness. Um, here's here's
[49:25] the way we answer the question.
[49:30] Who is asking the question, why don't I
[49:35] know your thoughts?
[49:38] Is consciousness asking the question or
[49:42] does that question arise in your mind?
[49:46] Right?
[49:48] Consciousness doesn't have questions.
[49:50] Your mind has questions
[49:53] and your mind has this this silly
[49:56] question. Why don't I know your
[49:57] thoughts? Well, your mind is certainly
[50:00] separate from my mind and that's why the
[50:04] question arises. Our minds are separate.
[50:08] Consciousness is not. And that means
[50:11] [clears throat] it's a good time to
[50:12] return to our bucket metaphor. Remember
[50:15] we saw the bucket metaphor when we
[50:17] talked about um uh reincarnation.
[50:22] So the uh wooden bucket representing
[50:25] your stool shar the water in a bucket
[50:28] representing your sukchma shar and we
[50:32] talked about that water leaking out of
[50:34] the old bucket and being poured into a
[50:36] new baby bucket. You remember all of
[50:38] that. [snorts] By the way, if you miss a
[50:40] class, just go listen online and you can
[50:42] you can catch up. And so here let us
[50:47] change the story a little bit. Still we
[50:49] have one sun
[50:51] and now suppose we have a bunch of pots.
[50:54] I think we just had one or two before.
[50:56] Suppose we have um 25 pots.
[51:04] Okay. 25 pots. Each of the 25 pots
[51:11] reflects the light
[51:13] of the one sun.
[51:20] So remember in this metaphor the bucket
[51:23] represents your stool shar the water
[51:27] represents your sukchma shar in general
[51:31] little helpful to think of it just as
[51:32] mind because that'll help us uh get the
[51:35] metaphor better. So the water represents
[51:39] your mind. Your thoughts are in your
[51:43] bucket.
[51:45] Yeah. No, your water is in your bucket.
[51:49] My water is in my bucket. Okay. Now,
[51:54] these ripples are vis
[52:00] your your go with the metaphor. Your
[52:03] ripples are in your water.
[52:06] My ripples are in my water. What in the
[52:08] world does that mean? Your your vis
[52:13] are in your mind.
[52:16] My vis are in my mind. No problem.
[52:24] One consciousness
[52:27] shining on every mind. 25 minds and 25
[52:34] minds
[52:35] reflecting that same sun but reflecting
[52:40] it a little differently
[52:43] because the ripples in your mind are
[52:46] different from the ripples in my mind.
[52:49] Therefore the reflection
[52:51] is going to be different.
[52:55] This reflection is simply what we know
[52:58] as experience.
[53:04] Even though consciousness is one,
[53:08] our experience right now
[53:13] our experience is unique. What I
[53:15] experience is different from what you
[53:17] experience. Why?
[53:20] Our ripples are different. The vis in
[53:23] our minds are different.
[53:27] Suppose we got uh we got 25 uh buckets.
[53:33] You got you can have all kinds of
[53:35] different you have small buckets and
[53:37] little ponds of water and whatever it is
[53:40] any here's the point. Wherever there is
[53:44] water
[53:45] there's a possibility of reflection.
[53:48] Have you been up in a plane and you get
[53:50] right at the exact right angle and you
[53:52] start getting all the reflections off of
[53:54] lakes and rivers below you? It's just a
[53:57] lovely lovely thing to see. Wherever
[54:00] there is water,
[54:03] the sunlight gets reflected. Water
[54:06] represents sukchma.
[54:08] Wherever there is life, there is a
[54:10] sukchma.
[54:12] Wherever there is life, consciousness is
[54:16] reflected. Consciousness is manifest.
[54:20] Wherever there is life, there's life in
[54:22] a mosquito.
[54:25] Not.
[54:26] So, the mosquito
[54:29] reflects manifests consciousness. Does a
[54:32] mosquito behave intelligently?
[54:34] They're smart enough to [laughter]
[54:37] suck your blood.
[54:43] So even that tiny insect has
[54:45] intelligence. How about plants? Are
[54:48] plants alive?
[54:50] Absolutely.
[54:53] That sunflower is smart enough to turn
[54:55] its head and face the sun.
[55:00] You know, it's not a lot of
[55:01] intelligence.
[55:03] I mean, I can turn my head. [laughter]
[55:07] You know, that's the the intelligence.
[55:09] But this is this intelligence what we
[55:13] call intelligent behavior
[55:17] is due to the manifestation of
[55:20] consciousness
[55:22] as
[55:24] experience. This is the basis for what
[55:27] we call intelligent behavior. All
[55:31] intelligent behavior is based on a
[55:35] reflection of that one sunlight. one son
[55:39] many reflections
[55:41] this is done
[55:44] so I I thought we would spend more time
[55:46] on these topics let's let me give me a
[55:49] moment to see if there's what else we
[55:50] want to include because we're pretty
[55:53] much wrapping up this first phase of our
[55:57] inquiry
[55:58] which is an inward turned inquiry
[56:04] where we started was just Just to
[56:08] summarize some of it, we started with
[56:09] where
[56:11] this is it. This is my edge. And then we
[56:15] we analyze sensation. We analyzed all
[56:18] five of our senses. And then we took the
[56:22] larger step into distinguishing between
[56:25] dri and dishia, seer and seen. And now
[56:29] we've taken one more big step to
[56:32] establish that consciousness is one.
[56:37] Consciousness
[56:38] is unchanging.
[56:40] Consciousness is boundless, limitless
[56:43] and therefore all pervasive. Meaning
[56:46] your consciousness was there before your
[56:48] body was before your um conception.
[56:52] Consciousness was already there. Then
[56:55] what does it mean to be born? If
[56:58] consciousness is already there before
[57:00] your conception,
[57:02] who gets born?
[57:05] not consciousness.
[57:08] Who gets born is a bucket full of water.
[57:13] The bucket is born
[57:16] with water in it. Meaning your physical
[57:20] body was born filled with life.
[57:25] And if we uh connect this further to
[57:28] reincarnation as we used this uh bucket
[57:30] metaphor before that if there's anything
[57:33] that travels from one life to the next
[57:35] it's the water. The water is removed
[57:39] from an old leaky bucket finds its way
[57:41] into a new bucket according to the uh
[57:44] laws of karma. So consciousness doesn't
[57:48] get born consciousness doesn't die. What
[57:53] what happens to consciousness when you
[57:55] die?
[57:58] That's the right answer.
[58:00] Absolutely nothing. What happens to your
[58:03] body? We know. What happens to the
[58:06] sukma? We've discussed in some detail.
[58:09] According to the laws of karma, it is
[58:11] driven to acquire another physical body
[58:14] for the sake of exhausting karmas which
[58:16] have not yet fractified. And in that
[58:20] whole process, what happens to
[58:22] consciousness?
[58:23] Not a thing.
[58:28] And that consciousness is you.
[58:32] Suppose you really get it that your
[58:35] consciousness is
[58:40] perfect
[58:42] immune to being affected by anything.
[58:47] Full and all pervasive means what? As
[58:51] big and full as anything can possibly
[58:54] be.
[58:58] What?
[59:00] Why then if that's the truth of who we
[59:04] are,
[59:06] why would we feel inadequate,
[59:10] incomplete,
[59:12] fearful,
[59:13] anxious,
[59:16] sad.
[59:18] That's the power of ignorance, right?
[59:22] Because we fail to recognize the true
[59:26] nature
[59:28] of atma as suchandha
[59:31] that ignorance is enough to cause us to
[59:36] identify. We went through that whole
[59:38] punch kosha thing. How many different
[59:40] levels of identification? And at every
[59:44] level of identification we saw
[59:46] suffering.
[59:48] suffering from identification with the
[59:51] starting with the roles we play then to
[59:53] the physical body the prana the mind
[59:56] buddy all of that wherever there's
[59:59] identification there is the roots of
[01:00:02] suffering what are we trying to do with
[01:00:04] the help of these teachings of vanta is
[01:00:07] to remove that ignorance to recognize
[01:00:11] that yes there is a body there is a mind
[01:00:15] but I am the consciousness
[01:00:18] which is utterly unaffected
[01:00:22] by anything that happens to the body and
[01:00:25] mind. And when that understanding
[01:00:29] becomes fully assimilated,
[01:00:32] you'll find that your perspective
[01:00:35] changes dramatically.
[01:00:37] If nothing happens to consciousness at
[01:00:39] death, why should we be afraid of death?
[01:00:46] This is the vision of the ancient
[01:00:48] rishies and extremely
[01:00:50] not just profound but because profound
[01:00:53] sounds like philosophy. Notice this
[01:00:57] teaching can directly address the root
[01:01:02] cause for suffering.
[01:01:05] The root cause for suffering is
[01:01:08] identification
[01:01:09] due to ignorance.
[01:01:12] Due to ignorance of your true nature,
[01:01:14] you identify with any of the five
[01:01:17] koshas, all that other stuff. And as we
[01:01:19] just said, wherever there's
[01:01:21] identification, there's suffering. So
[01:01:23] vdanta is absolutely unique in going to
[01:01:28] the core of the problem of suffering
[01:01:31] which is to use Buju Swami's term self
[01:01:36] nonrecognition
[01:01:38] which then causes identification and
[01:01:41] identification leads to suffering. So
[01:01:44] this is how vdanta works. And that's
[01:01:46] just half.
[01:01:49] That's half of vanta. And why would I
[01:01:52] say something silly like half of vanta?
[01:01:55] Well, I I started a moment ago to say
[01:01:58] that we're concluding our first part of
[01:02:00] our inquiry, which is an inquiry within
[01:02:04] ourselves.
[01:02:06] Next part of our inquiry is going to be
[01:02:08] flip around and we'll say, "Okay, I'm
[01:02:10] such an Ananda. So what is all of this?
[01:02:15] So our discussion will be is what is the
[01:02:17] nature of the world? Where did it come
[01:02:19] from? Who and what is its creator? We
[01:02:23] have a lot of big big topics to discuss.
[01:02:27] Who and what is? How did I create the
[01:02:31] universe? Is this all a matter of belief
[01:02:34] or is there some reason behind all of
[01:02:37] that? And this is what we'll be working
[01:02:40] on in the coming coming classes. So
[01:02:42] we'll we'll say this concludes the first
[01:02:46] part of our inquiry which is an inward
[01:02:49] turned inquiry. And from next week's
[01:02:51] class onwards we'll we'll flip our
[01:02:54] direction so to speak and start
[01:02:56] inquiring into the world around us and
[01:02:59] that from whom the world came forth.
[01:03:03] Ishwara will be our discussion. Okay.
[01:03:06] We'll end with a prayer.
[01:03:09] Omukaya
[01:03:41] Om shanty shanty shanty.