# How One Man Built the Invisible Backbone of the AI Revolution: Aart de Geus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWnOOzHgfrs

[00:01] Hi, today we're going to get a bit personal with Dr. Art Deius, one of the storied pioneers of the semiconductor industry, having founded Synopsis in 1986 and leading it for nearly 38 years.
[00:13] He's also known as the father of EDA.
[00:16] EDA is electronic design automation and is one of the most critical supply chain partners in the semiconductor ecosystem.
[00:23] For those of you not in the industry who may not know Art, you're going to love this episode because it's going to break all stereotypes about who the leaders are that matter in Silicon Valley.
[00:34] In some ways, he is the soul and conscience of the semiconductor industry.
[00:36] He's one of those individuals who leads and lives by a set of deeply held values.
[00:44] Please join me in welcoming a soulful blues musician, a deepinking philosopher, and an actively deliberate philanthropist.
[01:13] Hey, hey, hey.
[01:27] Welcome to a bit personal art.
[01:30] Hey, thank you for being here.
[01:32] Thank you for inviting me into your recording studio.
[01:34] This is so cool.
[01:36] I hope it works for you.
[01:37] And there's music behind us.
[01:39] So, okay, here we go.
[01:39] Perfect.
[01:39] So, tell me a little bit about how often do you do you come in here?
[01:41] Well, I try whenever I'm home to at least play 15 minutes or so.
[01:47] You know, if you come super uh charged from work, nothing better than being able to crank a guitar up a bit and uh uh and the stress comes down, but I wish I could play way more.
[01:58] And you also perform.
[02:00] So, tell me about your band.
[02:00] Yeah, we have a band, Legally Blue, and we do about a dozen gigs per year or so.
[02:06] Uh but the gigs are like two and a half hours, two times an hour, 15 minutes, which is a lot of material to actually get on top of.
[02:12] So, where do you play?
[02:14] Oh, a lot of uh things are outdoors.
[02:16] Okay.
[02:17] And you know, some of our favorites are,
[02:18] for example, in Sunnyvale closes uh Main Street and then they put uh table so people can eat there and a stage and then we play the evening.
[02:27] Okay.
[02:28] Yeah, it's really cool.
[02:29] Yeah, it is really cool.
[02:30] So fun.
[02:31] So, you and I have had the opportunity to know each other for roughly 20 years.
[02:35] That long? Really? Okay.
[02:37] Which means we both started as teenagers.
[02:39] Yeah. I was thinking kindergarten, but Okay. Yeah, that's fine.
[02:43] Teenage prodigy.
[02:44] Oh, yeah.
[02:45] So, anyway, so during that time, I've learned a lot of lessons from you, and some of them have been things that I've observed, but some of them have been point blank lessons that you've taught me, things that you've told me.
[02:55] Well, some of that material has come back to me, so it's cool.
[02:59] That's nice. So, you have to tell me about that some.
[03:01] Okay.
[03:02] So, I want to start there with with sort of your um your philosophical leanings.
[03:07] Okay. So, you're you're a pretty deep thinker. So yes, you are the father of EDA and everybody knows you're a super smart guy, but it goes deeper than that.
[03:14] I mean, you're really quite a deep thinker on both business side as well, I think, as the the personal side.
[03:23] So, one of the things that you championed at Synopsis was this mind frame of yes if rather than no butt.
[03:33] No, because no because Okay.
[03:36] No.
[03:37] All right.
[03:37] No, but works pretty well, too, actually.
[03:40] Okay. All right. So that's my new saying.
[03:40] Anyway, so tell me a little bit about why you adopted that and what does it really mean and how did you see sort of a transformation within synopsis just because of a different mindset.
[03:53] Yeah, you know actually it started I think 2017 18 I had noticed that uh the company had become more stodgy and maybe the reality is I had become more stodgy.
[04:03] Uh and oh yes yeah no no no it's very easy to become more more u no no change oriented
[04:11] and and essentially we were doing fine but yeah our profitability had not
[04:16] really grown and so somehow it occurred to me that there were so many reason that we couldn't do this no because because because and so on and suddenly one day I realized hey we have an enemy.
[04:30] it's no because and what's our friend yes if and you know the ifs and the causes are actually sort of the same.
[04:38] but the mindset change to go to a yes if from a no because is actually extremely fundamental because it opens doors whereas every no because essentially closes them and so uh I sort of announced to the company that I'm going to try to do this change sounded a little bit esoteric maybe but then for the entire 2019 I did tours and uh roundts with small groups of employees in front of let's say 100 or 200 other employees and I would pick people that were sort of lower middle management but that had a little you know little spark.
[05:14] okay and essentially asked them hey what do
[05:16] you think of this and and it was completely improvised uh there were there was no nothing to read or so and very quickly it started to take some form and I knew the first little success was when somebody reported hey you know I talked with my kids at dinner about it and they got it immediately and they also immediately diagnosed us the parents as being so no because and kids are like that of course because kids are open-minded to many many uh uh ideas and uh from there it moved forward pretty quickly.
[05:53] Uh maybe the second moment that I knew we had something was when somebody one of it was a a young lady, a young manager who was in one of those groups of three or four people and she reported that oh they had a group meeting on some project that didn't go anywhere and it wasn't this didn't work and that didn't work and they were completely stuck and she said and I know
[06:16] that when she told me that she was a little insecure if she could do that.
[06:21] She said, well, and then somebody at the table said, "Let's try this stupid art thing."
[06:26] You know, that's that yes if.
[06:28] And she said, "Exactly."
[06:32] I loved it because a it showed that she had courage for starters.
[06:35] But more importantly what she said afterwards is we tried it and suddenly the dynamics changed.
[06:40] and that's when I learned a lesson is that the no cause to yes if transition is not just a personal thing or a project one or it is a group one.
[06:52] because very often we are all stuck in our own no causes but when you tell somebody else on a yes if basis the other person often can solve some of the ifs and that's when it started to take off.
[07:02] right any specific ific concrete examples of something that happened that.
[07:07] there's a there's a massive concrete example because we coupled it with uh what we called at that time the rule of 40 and the rule of 40 was the addition.
[07:17] of the the the growth rate of revenue and the profitability.
[07:21] and we were well below 40 and said oh we're going to move in that direction.
[07:25] which is a very measurable uh thing and if you look at our results starting literally in 2019 you can see a break in the curve of profitability and and align that for many years then continue to go up.
[07:39] and you know of course this was the work of many many people that all had their own yes iff uh change vectors to to execute on but that mindset change for me it turned into an insight that I've had the opportunity to use with so many people and by the way you know I meet a very no because person almost every Hey, right early on.
[08:03] It's called the mirror.
[08:05] And there the guy is with yet another set of no because I've somewhat learned to say no no today not I'm going to be yes.
[08:12] I'll figure it out.
[08:14] Practice what you preach. Uh and
[08:17] preaching is is you know it's really role model ultimately.
[08:19] Right.
[08:21] Right.
[08:21] And what about applying it to your personal life?
[08:24] It it very much applies because uh when you are a CEO as you know there are so many things that are fundamentally conflicting uh in urgency in importance in who to deal with in what what decisions uh to make and consistently asking oneself the question is what is actually between the yes and the if.
[08:48] Yes, we can do this if and by the way it's not just if right it's if if if ever.
[08:57] There's always a slew of those.
[08:57] And by daring to look a little bit more like a child towards the future, anything is possible.
[09:05] One actually comes in with an energy level that actually opens doors.
[09:10] Right.
[09:10] Right.
[09:10] Energy being very important in our ind industry.
[09:14] Right.
[09:14] Now, especially in
[09:15] I'm sure we'll get back to that later.
[09:17] Yes.
[09:17] More than one meaning there.
[09:18] Yeah.
[09:19] Okay.
[09:22] So another quote that I love from you is that if you have the brains to understand, you should have the heart to lead.
[09:28] And you've recently added and the courage to act.
[09:30] So what does that triage look like?
[09:34] Well, here too, you know, uh it it's it's an old history in many ways.
[09:39] uh partially because uh one of the the great benefits I got by being early in in synopsis other people actually essentially pushed and told me that caring for others in the community is actually important you know.
[09:58] uh I I grew up as parents that yeah they would give some money to people but we were not you know we didn't have much money and it was not really learned right and suddenly I I discovered as as a CEO, you not only have the opportunity, but you also in my opinion have a necessity and a responsibility to look at the circles
[10:20] around the company, which initially were think such as simple as, you know, a second harvest in Silicon Valley.
[10:28] You know, the very fact that today there are many hundreds of thousands of people in Silicon Valley that have not enough to eat is is is a surprising situation.
[10:38] you would say and it was sort of a surprise to me too at that time.
[10:41] But out of that came sort of this notion of think beyond yourself.
[10:46] And uh I I must have heard or or or coined this terminology of they who have the brains to understand should have the heart to help.
[10:56] And that was really through all of these years became gradually a mantra because I saw here is this super intense industry the high-tech industry and specifically of course in our case semiconductors and actually there are a lot of brains and in all fairness for top leaders there's no time because we're sitting on this exponential of change that you need
[11:21] to constantly be on and still if you have the brains you should do some helping.
[11:26] And so I used that within the company and it's then years later that I realized there was also there also other force fields and we have seen this uh in the last seven eight years in the global situation that suddenly there's scary things happening around us and then suddenly it becomes well you should also have the courage to act and courage has to come with some wisdom.
[11:49] There's no point in sort of making some claims and then be shut down or so.
[11:53] uh but it is necessary for uh people that have this fantastic uh responsibility of leading a company or an organization to say you know we think for the long term we think broader in ourselves.
[12:08] right and we'll we'll talk a little bit more in a few minutes about your philanthropy but obviously you take this again and apply it to your personal life that we we do have a big responsibility as individuals.
[12:22] We we do and you know over time obviously synopsis has done well.
[12:26] Therefore we have done well as a family.
[12:29] Uh and and there too you know uh in philanthropy over time becomes important to actually realize there are many many many great causes.
[12:40] Uh the question is and I I think one should give broadly but at the same time if you have the opportunity to give more or or even participate in certain things it's useful to understand which ones will have the biggest long-term impact.
[12:50] And therefore it's also in useful to understand who are the leaders and how do they act.
[12:58] Because you know uh leading an NGO a non-government organization is a really tough job and I can tell you I've met some people that are just extraordinarily good.
[13:09] Fantastic.
[13:10] Yeah I have as well and I think that what you were saying earlier about that you didn't really learn it necessarily as a child.
[13:16] Um, I mean it was one of the the number one priorities for me when I was um raising children.
[13:22] Yes.
[13:23] And we started going to to Haiti when um when my kids were like 9 years old, nine and 11.
[13:30] Yes.
[13:31] Started going.
[13:31] So do you what about your family?
[13:33] Do you did you really try to breed that into your children in a milder form?
[13:38] Uh early on actually uh I took uh both of our young daughters at that time to a uh the distribution of food of uh second harvest.
[13:47] Uh and what they saw they were very quiet afterwards because it was I think one of those moments of realizing oh yeah yeah there there other challenges in the world.
[13:59] Uh the training is not over for for our uh children who are adults now because over time they have to participate more and they will and they're learning well.
[14:12] Right yeah no it's a it's a good lesson.
[14:14] So one of the the other lessons that I remember um and actually was something that you told me um and I I have used this so often and I've quoted you and I
[14:24] I give you credit any wondering what it is.
[14:29] No, that is that people determine the value of a meeting by how often they hear their voice.
[14:35] And for my job, when I'm managing a group of CEOs, that has played an incredibly important role.
[14:41] And I think about it all the time.
[14:44] And it's not just it's not hearing their voices for the sake of hearing their voices, right?
[14:49] It's not an ego thing.
[14:50] People want to be heard.
[14:52] So, do you still believe that?
[14:55] Do you remember that?
[14:56] Do you remember telling me that?
[14:57] Yeah, I I remember that.
[14:59] And it's it's quite a while ago uh because my thinking has evolved a little bit uh because I realize a uh often people are very uh stressed when they have to speak up in an environment that that has maybe other great people and so on and so so there's a reason they remember only what they said because that's the highest intensity moment.
[15:20] Right.
[15:20] Uh I would add something to that now which is that uh in any group and that
[15:26] includes the two of us the listening part is just as important.
[15:31] And then the third thing is can you make the other person feel an inch taller by the time the the the meeting is over.
[15:39] And you know in in music and and sometimes jazz gets stereotype too and you you hear sentence like you know really work well on the silences.
[15:47] What the hell does that mean?
[15:49] Well, actually listening in a band is a fantastic thing and it's just as hard because you know I'm concentrated on making sure I make do no mistakes and why I do that I'm not listening to the other band members.
[16:03] But when I'm relaxed enough so that I'm not worried about my own mistakes and let's say for argument sake I'll put you as the drummer and suddenly you do a little thing and I hear that the organ player picks up that same little accent.
[16:17] Suddenly everybody wakes up and if then I can do something that increases that accent now suddenly the band is cruising right call it being in the pocket and
[16:26] that that means suddenly you're together.
[16:28] and whenever you can do that in a meeting and again yes if works with that.
[16:34] because solving a bad if is a really big yes.
[16:38] and and and if it's clear that you know we solved it together.
[16:40] I brought up a problem.
[16:42] I really didn't know what to do.
[16:44] And you say, "Yeah, but go left instead of right."
[16:45] And suddenly it's, "Oh, wow. I hadn't thought about that."
[16:50] The very fact that I recognize that you just gave me a little gift is a gift back to you, right?
[16:54] And so the the dynamics of groups can be so improved if one were just a best better listener and you know, no to self become still a better listener.
[17:07] Right. Right. Yeah. I know. I I think I remember uh I don't know if you remember who Bob Pepper Bob Pepper was level one great leader.
[17:14] and he told me very early on, Jody, I think your superpower is listening.
[17:19] I was like, really?
[17:21] That's what I mean.
[17:23] I was so disappointed that that was my superpower and maybe ultimately he's right.
[17:27] Yeah. And do listen and then do something with it that makes Bob Pepper proud that he told you something.
[17:32] That's right. That's right.
[17:35] Um, so you you're in um a position that you get to be around a lot of CEOs, uh, myself as well.
[17:40] And what are some of the traits that you've seen consistently in very effective and very successful CEOs and leaders in general?
[17:50] Well, you know, that that is an unbelievably broad topic, right?
[17:55] One of the characteristics that that people don't often recognize is just the word perseverance.
[18:00] You know, it it I'm always surprised that somebody who maybe was not the super smart one, was not the super well-placed one, but who didn't give up actually became successful.
[18:13] And so perseverance is actually one of the key characteristics of being successful.
[18:18] Now, defining CEO by sort of the job attributes, I always start with the values and and and the foundation of the
[18:28] values is integrity.
[18:31] And integrity is a big, you know, three uh uh syllable word, but it can be easily translated in do what you say and say what you do.
[18:40] I if you're there, you have the foundation of trust uh building and sometimes what you do ends up not being so great and then you have to say that too, right?
[18:49] And so in in in my value pyramid that is that is absolutely the foundation.
[18:56] Now at the top I put something very different which is passion.
[18:58] The the the passion for what you do and probably that's also one of the reason that gives people a drive to move forward.
[19:09] But uh passion is contagious and the people that have that and then can surround themselves with not only compliment to themselves but but also people that that can build each other up is one of the characteristics that really great CEOs have.
[19:26] And you know earlier when you say
[19:28] oh Art you did this or that with the company.
[19:29] it is it is always we it is always we and and actually earlier.
[19:35] didn't we not briefly discuss how important it is to have somebody who is a contrarian right?
[19:40] somebody who who actually say hey real mirror here you watch this thing here.
[19:45] you're truth tellers.
[19:46] you're truth tellers and you there's some that are sort of always sort of on the no because side but even that the skill is to take their their because thing and turn it in a positive if and then do whatever yes we can uh around that.
[20:01] But we all have limited capabilities.
[20:03] And so you become really who you surround yourself with.
[20:08] And if you're willing to have opposites or people that think more broadly or have different skills, they're a gift.
[20:17] They're absolutely fantastic gift.
[20:18] Right.
[20:18] Right.
[20:21] So, were there any traits that you found important as a leader that you really didn't have naturally that you had to either earn or learn over time?
[20:29] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[20:30] You know, I I always feel and still feel
[20:33] right now that I've been a fraud that I
[20:36] know so much less than I wish I had. Uh
[20:41] I wish I had done some MBA. I wish I'd
[20:44] actually pay attention in engineering
[20:45] class. uh uh I wish I had spend spent
[20:50] more attention earlier to health. Uh uh
[20:54] but at the same time can say no no
[20:56] that's not a good attitude. This is old
[20:58] stuff that by being confronted in in in
[21:02] high responsibility or high leverage
[21:04] situations hopefully you learn how to
[21:07] how to do better. But uh I've heard from
[21:10] a number of other people that are uh
[21:15] very intense in their domain this this
[21:17] notion of you know deep down time I'm a
[21:19] fraud you know I'm faking it until I
[21:21] know how to do it real for real and you
[21:24] can also say hey that's the courage to
[21:26] to do some bets to to try something
[21:29] >> right yeah I think it's interesting
[21:30] because you know you often hear about
[21:32] women having imposttor syndrome
[21:34] >> oh yeah that's what it's called right
[21:35] >> yeah so now I'm talking to one of the
[21:37] most successful CEOs in the world who
[21:39] also had
[21:41] >> imposter syndrome. So I it's very
[21:42] interesting because it's it can be
[21:44] debilitating for some people.
[21:46] >> Are you an imposter?
[21:47] >> No. Maybe. I mean please I'm sitting in
[21:49] a room of people that you know are twice
[21:52] as educated as I am. Three times as
[21:54] smart. So of course I'm like the real
[21:56] imposttor. But you know what? It's it's
[21:59] still fun.
[21:59] >> So here's here's why I will argue that
[22:02] you're not. It has not much to do with
[22:04] education. It has not uh much to do with
[22:07] all these other skills. People may have
[22:09] other skills than you have or in some
[22:11] areas better in some areas not. But you
[22:14] have passion. You have passion for
[22:16] excellence. You have passions for
[22:18] learning, for improving things. That is
[22:20] what matters. That's what matters.
[22:22] >> Yeah. Well, at least I have that.
[22:24] >> Not at least. That's a lot. There's a
[22:26] lot to have. So you went through a
[22:29] transition at Synopsis where you um
[22:33] handed over the role of CEO to Cassine
[22:35] Gazi and you're now the executive chair
[22:37] at Synopsis.
[22:38] >> What's the name of the guy again?
[22:39] >> Uh Sassim. Sassim.
[22:40] >> It sounds familiar. Sounds familiar.
[22:42] Yeah.
[22:43] >> So he must have those characteristics.
[22:47] Okay. So that's you know maybe um go
[22:50] through the criteria that you know that
[22:54] you went through in choosing him to
[22:56] basically you know trust him with your
[22:58] life's work and then maybe how did you
[23:00] know it was time
[23:01] >> okay I don't trust him it's my life's
[23:03] work because it wasn't my life it was
[23:05] ours's life's work and actually 25 years
[23:08] he was part of that to build build this
[23:10] but uh yeah how do you you trust
[23:14] somebody with the future of the company
[23:16] And uh you know I mentioned some of the
[23:19] criteria from from the from the values
[23:22] point of view but u actually let me use
[23:25] sort of the definition of um uh vitality
[23:29] that I like to use and I like to define
[23:31] vitality in three lines. The first one
[23:33] is both the ability and the drive and
[23:36] you can replace the word drive with
[23:37] persistence or energy. It takes actually
[23:40] hard work and literally also physical
[23:43] persistence uh to do this. So ability
[23:45] and drive to learn,
[23:48] adapt, and collaborate. Without
[23:52] learning, you're nowhere in our field.
[23:54] And actually in many fields, you're
[23:56] nowhere because we know not only do we
[23:59] still live on exponential, we live on a
[24:01] whole bunch of exponentials right now.
[24:03] And so the speed of learning and the
[24:05] quality of learning is absolutely
[24:06] essential. Secondly, you can learn a lot
[24:09] academically. Then decide, well, I've
[24:11] learned it. The adaptation is really
[24:14] turning it into the the the practice of
[24:16] things. And then third one is
[24:18] collaboration.
[24:19] What we do is not possible as
[24:21] individuals.
[24:23] Everything we do is a team and it's not
[24:25] an additive team. It's a multiplicative
[24:27] team. A single person fails on something
[24:30] important. We all fail together. And you
[24:32] know great example is just in
[24:33] semiconductors. It doesn't matter if
[24:35] synopsis made a mistake in the tool or
[24:37] the designer made a mistake in using the
[24:39] tools or the the manufacturing made a
[24:42] mistake in manufacturing the thing the
[24:45] three of us we all fail right
[24:47] >> and that's a multiplication not an
[24:49] addition right and once one understands
[24:51] this notion of multiplication there's
[24:53] something very profound which is most of
[24:55] the things we deal with are not scale
[24:57] complexity issues they are systemic
[25:00] complexity issues many things are
[25:02] interwoven and so in the in this ability
[25:05] to learn, adapt and collaborate. Those
[25:08] three words try to capture both that
[25:10] sophistication and the necessity to
[25:12] continually be on the ball. And you of
[25:15] course we do learn, adapt and uh
[25:17] collaborate in order to survive and
[25:19] thrive and a lot of CEO work is
[25:22] surviving in so many way personally uh
[25:26] as a team as a company as as
[25:28] circumstances change as geopolitics
[25:30] hammers one whatever it is you're still
[25:33] there. So that's the vitality and um I
[25:37] would consider the the learning the the
[25:39] the the principle one because it's a
[25:42] starting point and it what was very
[25:44] clear to me already many years ago about
[25:47] 15 years ago was clear that Ceine was a
[25:51] an outstanding learner and you know just
[25:53] looking at now the last 18 months he has
[25:56] had to learn a lot of stuff that that
[25:58] was yet different than anything we had
[26:00] done before.
[26:01] >> Yeah. Yeah. And he I mean obviously a
[26:03] lot of uh regulatory and geopolitical
[26:05] complexities when he was trying to get
[26:07] the ANC deal done and so what did you
[26:10] you know teach not necessarily to Cine
[26:13] but teach the the culture and the
[26:15] leadership at synopsis of how to handle
[26:17] that kind of pressure. Well, uh, and
[26:19] it's sort of synopsis, but it's also in
[26:21] in specific case of Cine is that, uh, I
[26:24] had thought about succession a long time
[26:26] ago and, uh, and was always looking for,
[26:29] you know, where's their potential talent
[26:32] and, uh, and preferably from the inside
[26:34] because it reduces risk substantially.
[26:36] And so part of not so much the teaching
[26:39] as the enabling teaching was to over
[26:42] time help him be in different positions
[26:45] in the company. And at some point in
[26:46] time, you know, so he he was sort of
[26:48] spiraling gradually up and by the time
[26:50] he became uh COO and then later uh COO
[26:54] and president, it became clear and
[26:57] clear, hey, you know, something's
[26:58] happening here. And uh and all of those
[27:01] steps was learning partially with you my
[27:04] advice, but a lot of that was also just
[27:06] no, put him in the situation and
[27:08] actually don't say much. And that was
[27:11] actually difficult for me to step back
[27:13] because a number of people started think
[27:14] oh you know art has nothing to say
[27:15] anymore and and so on. That was
[27:17] unbelievably difficult to not say oh the
[27:20] answer is this or we should do this and
[27:23] but but let him speak first and drive
[27:26] things. Uh but having said that in the
[27:29] process it was clear that to me that he
[27:32] was a fantastic choice. that doesn't
[27:34] mean that that there's not a lot more he
[27:36] has to learn and as you said you know uh
[27:39] the geopolitical challenges started well
[27:42] before that about six seven years ago
[27:43] with was challenges uh between the US
[27:46] and China and then there was other form
[27:48] of geopolitical or geoperiod issues
[27:51] which was of course covid uh that was a
[27:53] big big challenge in many ways but
[27:56] that's a great example of systemic
[27:58] complexity becoming even more systemic
[28:01] and so the one of my criter area is can
[28:05] people understand systemic complexity
[28:07] somewhat intuitively and and deal with
[28:10] it without being overwhelmed.
[28:12] >> This episode is brought to you by Needam
[28:14] and Company. George needed founded
[28:17] Needam and Company with the vision to be
[28:18] one of the leading investment banks to
[28:20] the semiconductor industry. Most
[28:22] founders pivot, but for more than 40
[28:25] years, NEM has been part of the fabric
[28:27] of the semiconductor industry and has
[28:29] partnered for decades with industry
[28:30] leaders like applied materials, Intel,
[28:33] Lamb Research, and Synopsis. Having had
[28:36] a front row seat for numerous cycles,
[28:38] NEM has never felt stronger about the
[28:40] industry's short and long-term prospects
[28:42] and looks forward to continued
[28:44] partnering with today's and tomorrow's
[28:46] industry leaders. Let's get back to the
[28:48] episode. Right. Right. Yeah. I mean
[28:51] that's a perfect lead into the sort of
[28:53] the next topic which is sort of the
[28:55] state of the world today.
[28:56] >> Okay.
[28:57] >> And you know how you know whether
[29:00] whether it is the geopolitics
[29:03] whether it is our consumption of social
[29:05] media or our consumption of news and it
[29:08] seems that technology has created
[29:13] so many benefits for humanity
[29:16] >> but there are challenges. Yes. both
[29:18] unintended and maybe in some cases
[29:20] intended unintended consequences when
[29:22] you think about social media for
[29:23] example.
[29:24] >> Yeah.
[29:24] >> So what's your advice on you know how we
[29:28] can live a more soulful existence with
[29:31] all this chaos and turmoil and all the
[29:33] white noise?
[29:35] >> Yes. I think it's extraordinarily
[29:36] difficult question that you're asking
[29:38] here because uh many of the the forces
[29:41] that you're describing are much bigger
[29:43] than individuals. They're also much
[29:45] bigger than even groups that don't know
[29:46] what they have unleashed and and where
[29:49] it's going. Although I must say, hey, uh
[29:52] if I look at my parents when uh the Cuba
[29:57] crisis happened, which was the early
[29:58] 60s, that sounded overwhelmingly big too
[30:02] and it could have been, right? And you
[30:05] know uh every generation has had
[30:08] essentially these certainly in the last
[30:10] 200 years these waves of technology or
[30:13] new capabilities or warfare that have
[30:16] shocked uh humanity and some of the
[30:19] shocks were ended up being positive. Uh
[30:22] but many things change is painful in
[30:25] general even if it's positive change if
[30:27] you take you know the the steam engine.
[30:29] Well, for all the people that had, you
[30:31] know, uh horses to to to drive some some
[30:36] some stuff or so, suddenly the train
[30:38] destroyed that. And over time, you say,
[30:40] well, it's more efficient and there's
[30:42] advances, but the the transition is
[30:44] what's actually most difficult. And
[30:47] we're seeing this right now. There's an
[30:49] unbelievably high degree of hunger for
[30:51] more energy. And yet we all know that
[30:53] right now a large amount of the energy
[30:56] uh produces emissions that are
[30:58] catastrophic for humanity. And so
[31:00] there's a transition that's needed. Well
[31:02] transition I think it was Maggie Tatcher
[31:05] even that said you oh it has to get
[31:06] worse before it gets better. And all all
[31:09] CEOs know the simple question uh never
[31:11] let a good crisis go unused. And there's
[31:13] some truth to that but also never forget
[31:16] of the people that in the crisis are
[31:19] actually the ones that get hurt. And I
[31:21] if one sees it that way now one can
[31:24] start turning it to a yes if you know if
[31:26] we understand that this transformation
[31:28] will lead to these people or these these
[31:31] entities to be harmed what can we do
[31:34] preemptively about it and just by
[31:36] putting it into the ifs set we have
[31:38] broadened our own systemic uh
[31:41] understanding to something where
[31:43] leadership is actually worthy.
[31:46] >> Right. Right.
[31:48] So when one of the things again that
[31:51] that social media has um one of the
[31:54] problems that it has caused is this kind
[31:56] of constant comparison versus
[31:59] contribution. But the other thing is is
[32:01] that you're you're pigeonholed into
[32:05] believing one thing and then you're fed
[32:06] that information sort of over and over
[32:08] again. and we've heard about the you
[32:10] know these algorithms doing that and so
[32:13] it becomes very difficult to change
[32:15] one's mind about something in our
[32:17] industry we're pretty used to changing I
[32:19] mean we have to be flexible about
[32:20] everything you change on a dime I mean
[32:22] this year doesn't look anything like
[32:24] last year and it certainly doesn't look
[32:25] like it did five or 10 years ago so
[32:28] maybe what's something that you've
[32:29] changed your mind about that actually
[32:31] took persuasion from either someone else
[32:34] or some other group that you know that
[32:38] you're proud proud that you were mature
[32:40] enough and progressive enough to sort of
[32:42] change your mind about it.
[32:48] Yet another one of those very difficult
[32:50] questions because when do you know it's
[32:53] just learning versus when do you know no
[32:56] I actually was fundamentally stuck on a
[33:00] model that was too simplistic uh of the
[33:02] world and so you know
[33:05] just maybe reusing an example that we we
[33:08] talked about earlier this this notion of
[33:12] uh how is it possible that Silicon
[33:14] Valley needs uh uh multiple services
[33:17] that provide food. You know, was that
[33:20] just being blind? uh was it just well
[33:24] you know I had not seen that or was it
[33:27] actually a uh naive version of
[33:31] understanding of the world and you know
[33:34] if if I look uh at let's say the the the
[33:38] great American adventure since World War
[33:40] II uh the immense success of the country
[33:45] uh in actually bringing up one of the
[33:48] highest standard of living is somewhat
[33:51] uh touched by the fact that there are a
[33:54] lot of people in this country that are
[33:56] below the an acceptable standard of
[33:59] living and that one of the most
[34:01] remarkable countries in the history of
[34:03] certainly the last h 100red years uh has
[34:06] not been able to deal with that and I'm
[34:09] part of that I'm part of the industry
[34:11] that's been successful that has been
[34:13] changing all of these things and and all
[34:15] of these questions by the way now are
[34:17] greatly amplified through the whole
[34:18] question so what's AI going to do about
[34:21] this and and well there's some
[34:24] remarkable great successes and there's
[34:25] some remarkable awful stories already
[34:28] about what it could do but at the end of
[34:30] the day it's us it's us that decide us
[34:34] humans that decide how we deal with the
[34:37] world and so I think the increase of uh
[34:42] saying it's our responsibility actually
[34:44] that's that's another way of adding you
[34:46] know the brain's too hard to courage to
[34:49] action right into action,
[34:51] >> right?
[34:51] >> Uh I I think I'm still learning. I'm
[34:54] still learning and the question is
[34:56] learning how to be effective in this.
[34:58] >> Right. So, we were talking earlier about
[35:02] um that I had recently reread Clayton
[35:04] Christensen's book, How to Measure Your
[35:06] Life, and it I mean, it's a great book,
[35:09] but one of the things that he brings up
[35:11] is that where you spend your time and
[35:15] resources that reflects what your real
[35:17] values are. Like we may think we believe
[35:19] one thing, but if you're not spending
[35:21] your time or resources on it, then you
[35:22] probably really don't believe that. So
[35:25] what do you spend your time and
[35:27] resources on that you believe that you
[35:29] fundamentally believe aligns with your
[35:31] values?
[35:33] >> Well, you know, and I I look at the the
[35:35] this uh synopsis time and the now
[35:40] different synopsis time because at the
[35:42] beginning there was almost no choice. uh
[35:45] you know as as a young CEO and then as a
[35:48] not so young CEO who was the same who
[35:50] was like no choice on time uh I think
[35:54] you and I remember vaguely uh E times
[35:57] which was a newspaper at that time
[35:59] before the internet
[36:00] >> about our industry right of
[36:02] semiconductors and you know that thing
[36:04] would arrive I forget which day of the
[36:05] week and the first thing I would go very
[36:07] quickly through it you know what uh
[36:10] horrible thing has just happened that
[36:12] could endanger us as a company was
[36:14] always this paranoia of tomorrow and you
[36:16] know I've never lost that and you know I
[36:18] think only the paranoid survive was Andy
[36:20] Grove's gift to uh to bookdom I guess
[36:23] >> yes and there's some truth to that and
[36:26] so the reality is how much choice do you
[36:29] have over your time and so if Christian
[36:31] says yeah but you have to take choice
[36:33] you have to make choices he's absolutely
[36:36] right about that and I would say oh well
[36:37] you know I have to spend better time
[36:39] with my family and you know I'm I'm
[36:42] thankful the fact that both of our now
[36:45] grownup u daughters have become really
[36:49] good people. But you know, at some point
[36:51] in time was like, "Okay, here's the
[36:53] little uh tag I have on my shirt when I
[36:55] come home from yet another trip." Say,
[36:56] "Your dad. I'm your dad. Just remember
[36:59] that." Right? And and the the stress and
[37:02] the the the jet lag and all of that were
[37:05] were difficult. Now, in in in the next
[37:08] phase now where I'm uh essentially
[37:10] really the top supporter of Cine by
[37:13] being chair, um uh I spend the rest of
[37:17] my time on a whole new quest. And the
[37:19] whole new quest is actually to
[37:21] understand uh the systemic complexity of
[37:24] energy and climate. Now I'm already
[37:27] starting to modify it and wanting to say
[37:29] AI, energy and climate because AI is
[37:32] such a forcing function of change right
[37:34] now which is both a potential issue and
[37:38] potential opportunity to use that to to
[37:40] drive different energy considerations.
[37:43] And the reason I'm I'm so vested in that
[37:46] is because I can easily see why what's
[37:50] happening on the emission side is
[37:52] heading straight to a massive uh human
[37:55] catastrophe and therefore we have to
[37:58] find a way to bend that curve in a
[38:00] different direction. That's back to the
[38:02] earlier talk. It's so difficult to
[38:04] actually transition things right because
[38:06] gets worse before it gets better. And so
[38:09] uh trying to dedicate as much time I can
[38:13] on that is in in the category of the
[38:15] topics. But the other angle to your
[38:18] question is or Christensen's uh
[38:21] assessment is not just which time is
[38:23] which people and and that goes back to I
[38:27] think lessons that I wish I had learned
[38:29] earlier but at the end of the day often
[38:31] people let's say that want to go to
[38:34] college you know they have all these
[38:36] expectations you have to write an essay
[38:37] on what you're going to do with your
[38:39] life and why it's worthy to come to our
[38:41] university and stuff like that and they
[38:43] have no clue. They have no clue and
[38:45] they're they're almost panicky. And I've
[38:47] I've changed my advice there towards
[38:51] saying, "Hey, you know, just pick the
[38:53] people you really like, people that you
[38:55] respect, the professor that was able to
[38:57] make you an inch taller
[38:59] >> just because you're excited about
[39:01] something."
[39:02] >> A and until you know what your passion
[39:04] is going to be and how you may or may
[39:06] not make a difference around you, align
[39:10] yourself with people you think are
[39:12] great. And I think that is really good
[39:14] advice.
[39:15] >> Yeah. I think that you know I think it
[39:18] was Tom Freriedman many years ago at the
[39:21] US executive forum said that you know
[39:23] this generation would have like seven
[39:25] different occupations in their lifetime.
[39:28] >> Okay. Yeah.
[39:28] >> Okay. And if you do then that means that
[39:30] you can miss on the first couple of
[39:32] them.
[39:33] >> Yeah. And I I I would and Tom is really
[39:36] good at at putting it in very tight uh
[39:40] uh little sentences. Right. I I would
[39:42] say don't use the word miss on a few of
[39:44] them. If you could really learn and
[39:47] experiment, right? And and it's actually
[39:50] our fear of being a miss that stops us
[39:54] from being open-minded and learning.
[39:57] >> Just like my fear of playing the wrong
[39:59] note makes me not listen to what our
[40:02] keyboard player just did.
[40:04] >> Yeah, I think that's a perfect analogy.
[40:06] So, okay. So, I want to touch a little
[40:08] bit more on on fatherhood. Okay. So, you
[40:11] know, because I think that, you know, I
[40:13] hear kids now and both men and women
[40:17] >> say, you know, I don't even want to have
[40:18] children because, you know, just the
[40:20] kinds of choices that have to be made.
[40:24] Um, again, men and women. So, how did
[40:28] you sort of protect fatherhood and what
[40:30] advice do you have for someone sort of
[40:31] starting their career on how you manage
[40:34] that and still have a close relationship
[40:37] with your children and have an impact?
[40:39] Well, there's sort of the stuff I did,
[40:40] but even more the stuff I wish I did,
[40:43] right?
[40:43] >> And and I wish in hindsight that I had
[40:46] more often at dinner talked about what I
[40:50] actually do. At the same time, I look
[40:52] back and I say I had no ability to do
[40:55] that because after I don't know 12 half
[40:58] hour or 14 half hour meetings, you're
[41:02] completely zapped. And uh and still the
[41:07] few stories I told, the few things they
[41:10] did pick up, right? And of course they
[41:12] look like they're not listening at all,
[41:13] right? But they still hear it. They
[41:16] still hear it. And so and you know, I
[41:19] have the the the good fortune to have as
[41:21] a spouse somebody who is equally
[41:24] passionate about her work. She works in
[41:27] in cancer epidemiology
[41:30] and is is a researcher and publishes
[41:32] papers. And so she has an understanding
[41:34] for what it's like when she is under
[41:36] stress and and yet another grant
[41:38] proposal or or paper is due, you know,
[41:42] uh next Monday and you know essentially
[41:45] no sleep and just finish those things.
[41:47] And so we we have been able to support
[41:49] each other. But I think what our kids
[41:52] learned out of that is a certain degree
[41:53] of intensity and uh and passion uh and
[41:59] in different forms they have found their
[42:01] own way uh to say oh I don't want to be
[42:04] like my parents for starters they're
[42:05] working way way too hard but at the same
[42:08] time be very balanced and good people
[42:11] and so uh I don't know that that I knew
[42:14] the recipe
[42:15] >> but there's no question in my mind that
[42:18] you know children are the greatest gift
[42:20] you can get and and sometimes it's not
[42:23] your own children. Sometimes if you you
[42:25] don't have children, there's some other
[42:27] child arounds that that can be helped
[42:29] and that can uh uh greatly benefit from
[42:32] uh some act of love or attention.
[42:35] >> This episode is brought to you by GSME.
[42:38] GSME is a leading global provider of
[42:41] tailored silicon solutions dedicated to
[42:44] empowering semiconductor and system
[42:45] companies with cutting edge technology
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[43:17] generation applications. GSME gives full
[43:21] visibility of the supply chain to its
[43:22] customers. Now, back to the episode.
[43:26] >> Yeah, I like this whole idea of sort of
[43:28] the integration of both your
[43:30] professional life and your personal life
[43:32] so that your children do have some
[43:34] understanding. I I see people doing that
[43:36] more now.
[43:37] >> So then, you know, um again to get a bit
[43:41] personal.
[43:41] >> So tell me a little bit about how you
[43:44] made it work with two ambitious people
[43:46] in the home, highly successful, highly
[43:48] passionate about what they do. How did
[43:50] you maneuver that? I remember the um the
[43:52] CEO of PepsiCo. I recently listened to a
[43:55] podcast that she did and she said that
[43:57] her husband thought PepsiCo children my
[44:00] mother then all these things and she
[44:03] came the husband came dead last and so
[44:05] you know it's easy to put your spouse
[44:08] dead last. So how did how did you guys
[44:09] avoid that? You're still married so you
[44:11] must have avoided it.
[44:12] >> Yeah. Well but but you just send me into
[44:14] the ultimate guilt trip of all the
[44:16] things that I could have and should have
[44:18] done uh better. And so, you know, let me
[44:21] just highlight first that uh the the my
[44:24] wife is maybe the greatest gift that uh
[44:27] I got and not always appreciated
[44:29] sufficiently for that because he somehow
[44:32] found found an understanding of you know
[44:36] this guy whatever he does he he won't
[44:38] stop because that's who he is. And it's
[44:41] it's more over time that I've gotten to
[44:43] appreciate how many steps she took to to
[44:47] make that possible and put herself on a
[44:50] back burner that once the kids were out
[44:53] of the house suddenly I saw the
[44:54] intensity that she had
[44:57] >> and and so in in hindsight I wish had
[45:00] been able to be more supportive of her
[45:02] career earlier on
[45:05] but you know she made our family
[45:07] successful and uh uh you
[45:11] I don't want to go too far into the
[45:13] guilt trip because you know flowers
[45:16] won't do. Right. This is this is much
[45:18] deeper than that.
[45:19] >> Right. Well, I'm Does she get to spend
[45:22] more time with you now or it's equally
[45:24] as challenging?
[45:25] >> You know, actually in a weird way, one
[45:27] of the best experiences as I look back
[45:29] was co.
[45:30] >> Yes.
[45:31] >> We were in the same house and we met 17
[45:34] times in at crossing at the kitchen. We
[45:37] had
[45:37] >> Were your children here too?
[45:38] >> No, they were not. Okay.
[45:39] >> They were not uh uh they in their 30s
[45:42] and so so co was 5 years ago. So and so
[45:46] uh and suddenly we had um brief lunches
[45:50] together just sitting outdoors and uh I
[45:54] think it it matured maybe matured just
[45:58] me. I probably needed more maturing but
[46:01] uh uh it it was actually a way to learn
[46:04] how to do things differently.
[46:07] >> Right. Yeah. Yeah. I think that if
[46:09] something good came of co it was a
[46:11] family time in many cases
[46:12] >> for some and for some it was the
[46:14] opposite right it was the the big
[46:15] challenge.
[46:16] >> Yeah.
[46:17] >> So let's switch gears and talk a little
[46:19] bit um more about jazz. Okay. So you've
[46:22] already given a few um examples of how
[46:24] >> it influenced your leadership,
[46:28] >> but maybe a little bit more about how
[46:31] you know how it has impacted your life
[46:34] and how you lead and
[46:36] >> well you know uh sometimes I I joke or
[46:39] maybe don't joke and say hey leading a
[46:42] band is a lot harder than leading a
[46:43] company and partially it's it's not a
[46:46] joke because uh creative people uh have
[46:51] an ability ability to turn a corner when
[46:53] you don't expect it to happen. And
[46:55] actually one of the the coolest thing
[46:57] and we're still learning that as a band
[46:59] is and we're we're interesting and this
[47:01] is now management from Synopsis coming
[47:03] into the band saying oh let's talk about
[47:06] this and and let's make it sort of uh
[47:09] clear that one of the rules is if
[47:12] somebody makes a a mistake while we're
[47:15] we're playing
[47:18] a gig, the role of the rest of the band
[47:21] is to make that mistake go away. not
[47:23] look at, you know, why did you do that?
[47:26] And, you know, we all make mistakes. And
[47:28] interesting enough, the singer is the
[47:31] person that needs to be protected most.
[47:33] You know, it's sort of like the queen in
[47:35] chess or something like that. And and
[47:38] and I would never say that she makes
[47:40] mistakes. I just say, "Oh, she made a
[47:42] decision to not go to the chorus, but to
[47:44] what's called the bridge or
[47:47] and and the whole band goes, did we just
[47:49] go to the bridge? What happened? What
[47:50] happened here?" Right? Our job is to in
[47:54] zero time redo the chords, figure out
[47:58] what to do so that she sounds great. A
[48:02] and
[48:04] being able to voice that explicitly. A
[48:06] brought many jokes about it and and the
[48:09] singer said, "Do you mean I make
[48:10] mistakes?" No, we all make those. But
[48:14] but this is the playing together. This
[48:17] is the notion of we're a multiplication,
[48:19] not an addition. Mhm.
[48:21] >> And it's been cool to see how how the
[48:24] band has done well with that. And uh and
[48:28] we all make mistakes like this from time
[48:30] to time. And the more we we can do that
[48:34] together, that's not any different than
[48:37] a good exact team. An exact team shines
[48:41] when somebody not somebody when we are
[48:45] in a bad spot and we t all Yes. If as
[48:49] hard as we possibly can on each other,
[48:51] >> right? Yeah, I get that. So you when you
[48:55] were young, you met um one of your um
[48:58] jazz idols.
[48:59] >> Yeah. Barney Kessle. Is that the story?
[49:01] >> Yes, that's the story. So tell us about
[49:04] meeting him and maybe how it impacted
[49:06] and changed
[49:07] >> your thought process.
[49:09] >> Well, so so I'm uh in undergrad uh in
[49:13] Switzerland that I grew up mostly in
[49:15] Switzerland. I was undergrad and nearby
[49:18] a town called Montro which is well known
[49:20] for his jazz festival. Mucho Jazz
[49:21] Festival on the Lake of Geneva.
[49:23] >> And I had been to a couple of concerts
[49:25] there uh before and I had learned one
[49:28] thing which is hey you know when they
[49:30] open the doors if you're close to the
[49:32] doors you run like crazy because it's
[49:35] open seating.
[49:36] >> Okay.
[49:37] >> And if you if you're really fast you can
[49:39] make it to the first or second row.
[49:40] Don't go for the first row because if
[49:42] you're on the first row you will
[49:43] suddenly find it's all reserved. Go for
[49:46] the second row. That's as close as you
[49:48] can get, right, to the musicians.
[49:51] >> So then there was this guy um Barney
[49:54] Kessle who was really a great jazz
[49:56] guitar player from the very first
[49:58] generation. So his first records were
[50:00] like 1940s that far back and he was
[50:03] going to play and I needed to go see
[50:05] that and I had one record by him and I
[50:07] had read the back cover like you know 40
[50:09] times while listening to it and so I
[50:12] went so early so early that the doors
[50:15] were not closed yet and so it was sort
[50:18] of dark and I can still today see it
[50:21] towards the left along a hallway there
[50:24] was some some light and some some sounds
[50:27] and I sort of just mos to eat in. And to
[50:30] my great surprise, it turned out it was
[50:32] a cocktail party. Not that I knew at
[50:34] that time what a cocktail party was, but
[50:36] people standing around with some glass
[50:38] talking to each other. And it turns out
[50:40] it was the release cocktail party of a
[50:44] record by Barney Kessle. So, it was the
[50:47] the recording company had organized
[50:49] that. And so, I'm sort of looking around
[50:51] and suddenly right there, right there, I
[50:54] see him. And and at that point in time,
[50:56] my whole body changed. sort of I started
[50:59] to do sort of this random walk you know
[51:01] interesting ceiling and meanwhile my
[51:03] internal laser I'm laser guided to get
[51:06] closer and closer and closer to the to
[51:08] this guy and so I'm sort of standing
[51:11] there and suddenly our eyes meet and and
[51:14] he had dark very
[51:17] forceful eyes
[51:18] >> okay
[51:19] >> and I just blurted out and I I couldn't
[51:21] speak English very well at that time I
[51:23] just blurted out Mr. Kessle, how do you
[51:26] practice?
[51:28] And he he he was so magnanimous.
[51:31] Oh, that's easy. You find some people
[51:34] that are better than you. You play with
[51:36] them, and you practice, and you practice
[51:38] until you're just as good. And then you
[51:41] find some people that are better than
[51:43] you, and you practice, and you practice
[51:45] until you're just as good. And then a
[51:48] third time, you find some people that
[51:50] are still better than you, and you
[51:52] practice, and you practice until you're
[51:54] just as good. And then when you cannot
[51:57] find anybody, you come see me and you
[52:01] teach me.
[52:03] >> I love it.
[52:04] >> And the reason I know exactly about 15
[52:07] 18 years or so ago, I found in one of my
[52:10] notebooks little, you know, like like
[52:12] you do when you you're adolescent, you
[52:14] you glue stuff in, you write things
[52:17] down, little poem, that kind of stuff. I
[52:19] had written down exactly what he said,
[52:21] the three times. A and to me the magic
[52:25] of his closure all these years later was
[52:29] sort of the essence of learning combined
[52:32] with the essence of humility.
[52:35] >> Such beautiful center and then you teach
[52:38] me
[52:38] >> right
[52:39] >> and uh and I think that for me suddenly
[52:43] sealed the whole notion of what learning
[52:45] is all about. It is actually cherishing
[52:49] the fact that one is not as good as what
[52:51] could be that there are other people
[52:53] that are so fantastic around one and it
[52:56] also consolidated this whole notion of
[52:59] just don't look for your own passion.
[53:01] The passion will come at an unexpected
[53:04] moment. Surround yourself by people that
[53:07] are great, people that are humble
[53:09] themselves, people that are generous
[53:13] role models.
[53:14] >> That's what I've done. Look who I get to
[53:16] be around. Oh,
[53:18] >> it's great.
[53:18] >> It's mutual. It's mutual.
[53:20] >> So, I want to end by asking you when
[53:22] it's all said and done, you know, how do
[53:24] you want to be remembered? You know, how
[53:26] do you want the industry to remember
[53:28] you? How do you want your family and
[53:31] humanity to remember you?
[53:32] >> Well, I don't think humanity is going to
[53:35] matter so much.
[53:36] >> Make a big difference on climate. So,
[53:38] >> Well, no, I haven't. See, that's the
[53:40] problem with that's the
[53:42] >> But you still have time.
[53:43] >> We still have time. Well, I'll I'll I'll
[53:45] I'll work hard on it. But, uh, you know,
[53:47] and
[53:48] >> I don't know if if I'm worth
[53:50] remembering, but it's a difficult
[53:52] question because if if I think what I
[53:55] actually cherish most is if if I hear
[53:59] later and sometimes I do hear that that
[54:02] I inspired somebody, it is sort of the
[54:04] and and also I love discussions like
[54:07] this because we're both learning, right,
[54:09] at the same time. And yes, you have put
[54:11] the focus a little bit too much on me.
[54:13] But but but the fact is it's in
[54:16] discussions like this that one sharpens
[54:18] one own understanding while hopefully
[54:21] making the other person find oh there's
[54:24] something I that changes my life that
[54:26] that and so you know inspiring people
[54:29] making them an inch taller. Uh, and I'm
[54:32] I'm I feel horrible to say I've many
[54:35] times made them an inch smaller and not
[54:38] always been great at this, but
[54:40] nonetheless,
[54:41] doing something that inspires people to
[54:44] be bigger and better in some form or
[54:46] other is probably uh the one thing that
[54:49] I would be most thankful if that was the
[54:51] epitap on the stone or whatever at the
[54:54] end.
[54:55] >> Well, you have one person you've
[54:56] inspired. So,
[54:57] >> well, thank you. Thank you.
[54:58] >> Thank you for doing this with me. This
[55:00] has been fun. So, let me ask you this. I
[55:04] want to I'm going to get to this last
[55:06] portion which we call the last tape out.
[55:08] So, I'm going to
[55:08] >> The last tape out.
[55:09] >> The last tape out.
[55:11] >> Yeah. The tape better be good.
[55:13] >> That's right. And I'm going to ask you
[55:16] some questions. You quick answer. But
[55:17] before I do that,
[55:18] >> think about a question for one of our
[55:21] future uh guests on the show. So, one of
[55:24] them is going to be Lisa Sue.
[55:26] >> Okay.
[55:26] >> So, what should I ask Lisa Sue? What
[55:29] would you like to ask Lisa Sue? Maybe
[55:32] they're the same.
[55:34] Well, Lisa is a person I I greatly
[55:37] admire and and so
[55:41] yeah, one wants to ask somebody about
[55:43] something that's actually difficult uh
[55:46] to um and I I want to say she has done
[55:49] two very great things already which is a
[55:52] she essentially uh restored a company
[55:56] that was heading from disaster to utter
[55:59] disaster i.e. down the drain and and in
[56:02] that sense she became the CEO that that
[56:05] fixed it to being viable. Then she
[56:09] became the CEO that established a whole
[56:12] new position for that company back in
[56:14] industry where it was no longer a number
[56:17] two player or distant number two player
[56:20] but became a real player. That is an
[56:22] unbelievable accomplishment in its own.
[56:25] uh and build essentially had rebuild the
[56:28] company to be viable and then build it
[56:30] to became a to become a very strong
[56:32] company. So strong actually that with
[56:35] that comes an immensely difficult
[56:38] challenge which is now the whole world
[56:41] is changing again partially helped but
[56:43] what she and a number of other great
[56:46] leaders in our industry have done which
[56:47] is enable this whole AI++
[56:50] uh world and with it comes all the
[56:53] questions about energy all the questions
[56:55] that you had about you know um media
[56:59] influencing us the AI now maybe tricking
[57:02] and what have you.
[57:04] >> Uh but most importantly,
[57:06] how will she learn when there are no
[57:10] teachers?
[57:11] >> There are no people that that are are
[57:13] that far ahead. Of course, she can learn
[57:15] from competitors and so on and and that
[57:18] is a way to learn,
[57:20] >> but how will she learn or is it no the
[57:23] the specifics don't matter as much as
[57:26] the fundamentals, which she has many of.
[57:29] >> Okay. All right. Well, we will let her
[57:31] know that. So, okay. Okay. So, I'm going
[57:32] to ask you these quick questions and
[57:33] Okay. You you can take as long as you
[57:35] want to answer them, by the way.
[57:36] >> Okay. Okay. Well,
[57:37] >> all right. So, the first is, who's the
[57:39] smartest person you ever met?
[57:42] >> Well, smart is not the same as
[57:43] intelligent. And you know, one person
[57:46] comes up to mind I spent uh as an
[57:49] adolescent every summer on a farm. And
[57:52] uh you know, the farmer who was also a
[57:54] bit of an entrepreneur in that village
[57:56] uh was maybe 15 years older than I am.
[57:58] So he was it was sort of more of a big
[58:00] brother or a second father if you like
[58:03] and he was pretty down to earth on
[58:07] things including the vocabulary that
[58:09] when it rained it was not a little rain
[58:12] it was always a catastrophe of rain and
[58:14] so on because people that that work on
[58:16] real farms on on real things that have
[58:20] to do with with feeding a village the
[58:22] animals and all that they really know
[58:25] about reality and and I've learned
[58:28] probably more on that farm on management
[58:30] than any other place uh certainly before
[58:33] I became a manager.
[58:34] >> Okay. I love that. I love that. So what
[58:37] is a misconception that people have
[58:40] about you?
[58:42] >> Well, you know, often people ask me
[58:44] about are you not proud of this and that
[58:47] and achievements and so on and and the
[58:50] misconception is I am completely focused
[58:53] on tomorrow,
[58:55] >> not not yesterday. I'm always interested
[58:58] by by moment a problem sort of semi goes
[59:01] away I'm already on onto the next thing
[59:04] and you know actually I learned this
[59:06] lesson one more time uh during the the
[59:09] the pass the passing the baton to the
[59:12] scene because once I announced it there
[59:14] were so many people that were uh
[59:17] humbling so uh thankful and and letters
[59:20] and phone calls and some some people say
[59:23] can I meet you one last time and I was
[59:26] thinking Have they talked to my doctor?
[59:27] Do they know that you know am I dying or
[59:29] what's what's happening? And it it
[59:32] became in in all the this so humbling
[59:36] thank yous.
[59:38] I was more and more depressed until I
[59:40] understood something. Every single one
[59:42] speaks in passive voice passes in past
[59:46] tense. You did this, you had that. You
[59:48] worked this. Thank you for and so on.
[59:50] And the very few that look at and what's
[59:53] next sort of it's so great that now you
[59:55] don't have to work so hard and you can
[59:57] go play golf or something that for me is
[01:00:00] horrible but okay nothing wrong with
[01:00:02] golf but
[01:00:04] I am was so interested in so no I want
[01:00:07] to be doing something that's newly
[01:00:10] challenging and and not you know be on a
[01:00:13] zillion boards or so but but something
[01:00:15] truly where you don't know what the
[01:00:16] outcome is going to be.
[01:00:17] >> Right. Right. Okay.
[01:00:19] So, what is your vac favorite vacation
[01:00:22] spot?
[01:00:24] >> Well,
[01:00:26] you know, I think favorite what a
[01:00:28] vacation spot what makes my vacation
[01:00:30] spots favorite is the people I'm with.
[01:00:33] >> It's the people I'm with. And and
[01:00:35] frankly, any spot can become favorite
[01:00:38] because some stupid little
[01:00:41] restaurant somewhere where we just talk
[01:00:43] to the night is just as great as being
[01:00:45] on the highest mountain and and have the
[01:00:48] world around us, which is fantastic,
[01:00:51] too. It's all who you do it with.
[01:00:53] >> Okay. Yep. Makes sense. So, what is your
[01:00:55] pet peeve?
[01:00:57] >> No, because that is pretty easy.
[01:00:59] >> Yes.
[01:01:00] >> I cannot stand that.
[01:01:02] >> Okay. So, what is your go-to coffee
[01:01:04] order?
[01:01:06] >> You do coffee?
[01:01:06] >> Well, the uh uh my adult daughters would
[01:01:11] think of me as as a coffee neander toler
[01:01:14] because I go instant coffee, some
[01:01:16] creamer, and some sweetener. Okay, done.
[01:01:20] >> Okay,
[01:01:21] >> that's a level of sophistication.
[01:01:23] >> All right. Okay. So, this is an
[01:01:25] interesting question. If you had to be
[01:01:26] 20 again,
[01:01:28] would you choose to be 20 today or would
[01:01:31] you do wish to be 20 when you were
[01:01:33] growing up?
[01:01:34] >> It's not if you had to. I am 20 again. I
[01:01:37] am absolutely
[01:01:39] >> I always say that I have age dysmorphia.
[01:01:41] No,
[01:01:42] >> this is more uh I am 20 partially
[01:01:45] because being 20 means trying and doing
[01:01:48] stuff where you actually don't know what
[01:01:50] the outcome is going to be where where
[01:01:52] where uh uh it may be crazy to even hope
[01:01:56] for it. There is a a timeline that's
[01:01:59] sticking backwards from from life. Uh
[01:02:03] and but you know I'm still looking my
[01:02:06] driver's essence and I want to scratch
[01:02:08] out the number. So, I am 20 right now
[01:02:10] this minute.
[01:02:11] >> Well, I'm 20 with you.
[01:02:13] >> Fantastic.
[01:02:13] >> Just fun 20-year-olds. So, thanks for
[01:02:16] doing this with me.
[01:02:17] >> Oh, thanks for the the honor of of
[01:02:20] having this done.
[01:02:20] >> Good. It's been fun.
[01:02:22] >> Thank you.
[01:02:22] >> Thanks.