# From Outsourcing to Outcomes: Decoding the BPM 3.0 Revolution

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sETH08F9q3Y

[00:01] [music]
[00:15] Hello everyone and welcome to this very special session business transformation through BPM.
[00:23] BPM has of course been one of those industries which has powered the modern global economy for decades.
[00:27] It's been associated of course with outsourcing, with operational excellence, and with managing large-scale services.
[00:35] And now the industry finds itself in an interesting new phase at the convergence of AI, automation, and intelligent systems.
[00:44] So what does this transformation really look like for the BPM industry?
[00:48] Not just in theory, but on the ground.
[00:51] And where does the industry actually go from here?
[00:54] Well, there's a lot of questions to be answered and a lot to look forward to in more ways than one because there is a lot to look forward to with the BPM.
[01:01] industry.
[01:04] And we've got a really stellar panel who are joining us today to talk us through this road map ahead.
[01:09] And I'm very thrilled to introduce and welcome to our panel today, Jatin Singh Kang, managing partner and global head business process services Wipro.
[01:19] Gaurav Iyer, senior vice president and global leader for AI solution EXL.
[01:24] Sreekanth Srinivasan, vice president and head membership and outreach NASSCOM.
[01:29] Gentlemen, thank you so much for being here with us today.
[01:33] We're really looking forward to your perspectives because I mean, you know, you are our veterans and leaders in our midst.
[01:40] But before we go forward, I find it's always helpful to take a step back.
[01:44] You know, I think all of us 80s and 90s kids, of course, giving away my age while I say that.
[01:49] You know, remember that great outsourcing wave of the 90s.
[01:53] So you know, tell me a a bit about this is a big question, but if you could give me your perspective on what is the evolution really been between that.
[02:02] Outsourcing wave and of course what it is today BPM 3.0?
[02:06] I guess go across to you first.
[02:09] Okay, sure.
[02:09] Thank you, Beverly.
[02:11] Thank you very much and happy to be on this podcast and uh so, I think you're right.
[02:17] I think it's good to kind of, you know, go back and see in time how this industry has been, right?
[02:21] I mean, uh, from a NASSCOM point of view, I think NASSCOM has always been at the forefront of this industry and if you really recall, this BPM industry used to be called ITES once upon a time.
[02:31] It used to be called IT enabled services.
[02:35] So, it was in any way an integral part of the larger technology industry for the last three and a half plus decades or close to four decades now.
[02:44] Uh, what started off, uh, and and this industry has metamorphosed a lot in the last so many years.
[02:49] Uh, it of course started like an outsourcing.
[02:51] It started off as cost optimization.
[02:53] Then it became a process optimization or a process management platform.
[02:57] But today, I think this, uh, it, it's actually come to a process, a point where it is now a process.
[03:02] Transformation platform.
[03:05] So, that's the kind of journey that this industry has seen over the last three and a half plus decades.
[03:11] Absolutely.
[03:13] And, uh, Jessy and Gaurav, if you could jump in, where does AI do you feel fit into this transformation at the moment?
[03:19] So, Beverly, thank you for having us on the show.
[03:24] I think, uh, I'd like to first add a little bit on what Srikant has said, being involved and engaged with industry right since its inception.
[03:32] Um, I can tell you that we are moving from doing processes to owning outcomes.
[03:37] So, there is, in many ways, a huge shift that is happening in the industry as a part of BPM 3.0.
[03:44] Um, where does AI fit into our industry?
[03:46] It's integral.
[03:49] The way the services are being, uh, delivered today, and if you look at the shift that has happened in the last 12 months, I think I am not aware of any service where we don't have AI integrated.
[04:03] Completely and the offerings that we are selling in the market every single deal has AI enmeshed in it.
[04:11] So, it is completely integrated and it's actually quite fascinating to see the speed at which it has got integrated into our BPO or BPM offerings.
[04:22] Absolutely.
[04:22] And Gaurav, coming to you, I mean if you could also add to the nostalgia part of it, you know, what have you seen as the biggest transformation and also the fact that, you know, what what can actually BPM 3.0 actually do now which was just not even something you thought of, you know, back in the day.
[04:41] So, if you could give it to us from that perspective.
[04:43] Yeah, sure.
[04:44] First of all, thank you for having me on the podcast, Lavanya.
[04:47] Nice to meet all of you.
[04:48] So, you know, to the fundamental question of how the industry's evolved, so, you know, in my view, we started off doing as Srikanth and Jagjit said, we started off doing process transformation, process reimagination.
[05:01] As we ran processes for
[05:04] Our clients, we understood that decisions driven by data was a big gap.
[05:09] So, I think a lot of the industry then invested in data and analytics to drive decisions in a process that made it effective.
[05:18] But we were still dependent on technology and code, which we never did.
[05:21] With the advent of AI, actually that barrier has also been broken.
[05:26] So, now actually we know how to reimagine the process, we know how to make data-driven decisions and by the way, we can execute on that decision and transformation to deliver an outcome as Jagjit said, because we have AI which has broken the barrier of, you know, developing, deploying software, right?
[05:43] So, I think actually the evolution of the industry and technology has actually converged in a really nice way.
[05:48] Right?
[05:50] So, I think that's point one, which actually gives us a huge tailwind.
[05:54] Uh to your second question on how, you know, what AI can help us do, I think it goes to the last point I made, right?
[06:03] Uh today with AI, right?
[06:05] Uh when we thought about automation, when
[06:05] We thought about process reimagination,
[06:07] We were always constrained with legacy systems, access to data to really drive that outcome, which Jasjit said, right?
[06:14] So, we wanted to deliver the outcome, we knew how to deliver the outcome, but we were constrained by data and technology.
[06:21] With AI, which is now the connective tissue in an organization, that barrier is broken, right?
[06:28] So, so for now, we can not only run a process, which is a customer service process, or a, you know, customer onboarding process, we can actually help clients launch new products.
[06:35] We can design products.
[06:38] We can service the products, right?
[06:39] Uh so, that's the kind of outcome and problem we can solve today.
[06:43] So, that's a fundamental shift in what we can do, and it's a shift to the better.
[06:48] Absolutely.
[06:50] And you know, the fact that, you know, obviously BPM at one point was known for cost efficiency, it was known for process standardization, and now it's entering a new phase, you know, the whole industry is entering a new phase, and you've touched upon this already, but um what do you feel are really the driving factors now to make
[07:07] BPM actually a very strategic transformation partner, and what are the new real metrics of success that enterprises are also looking for?
[07:16] Jasjit, if I could come across to you.
[07:18] Sure, sure, Beverly.
[07:20] Uh so, if you look at the current AI era, I think domain becomes the differentiator.
[07:26] Mhm.
[07:27] As core processing gets commoditized, and it will, so value shifts to deep industry context that drives superior outcomes, not just faster execution.
[07:36] So, it has the expectation has shifted.
[07:38] So, BPM brings the domain expertise, we all know that.
[07:43] Embedding it into AI-driven operations, delivering differentiated outcome-led solutions rather than just efficient execution.
[07:50] So, that's how I see it.
[07:52] I also think that our industry is actually uniquely positioned at the cross-section of data and domain, and Gaurav alluded to that in his response.
[08:01] So, we are the ones actually carrying out a large part of transformation programs on the ground, re-working processes, embedding
[08:08] Technology, and making change real at scale.
[08:11] Mhm.
[08:12] Enterprises are increasingly recognizing this, which is why BPM leaders are now being invited into growth and transformation conversations also, not just cost discussions.
[08:20] Yeah.
[08:21] Yeah.
[08:21] And I'm sure you've seen today's article in Economic Times about how this quarter has actually been a bumper quarter for uh Mhm.
[08:28] Industry.
[08:29] Yeah.
[08:29] Yeah, absolutely.
[08:32] And and Gaurav, do you want to add to that?
[08:34] I think you also made an interesting point when we were chatting offline about how BPM is actually, you know, an interesting layer connecting ROI of AI and enterprises also.
[08:44] So, if you could elaborate on that as well.
[08:46] That was an interesting point.
[08:47] Yeah.
[08:47] Absolutely, right?
[08:50] So, I think to add to what Jagjit said, right?
[08:52] So, today, you know, everybody's investing in AI technology, cloud, etc., right?
[08:57] I think, you know, the investment is immense, the investment has been done.
[09:01] Everybody's looking for ROI.
[09:03] And ROI depends on three things.
[09:06] One is, as Jagjit said, it depends on understanding
[09:08] The context of a particular industry and within the industry, a certain client.
[09:13] The second is how do you really drive adoption of a technology, right?
[09:20] So, the adoption which actually sits squarely with operations and the BPM world.
[09:25] And the third is do you really know what are the outcomes that your client wants to deliver?
[09:30] A lot of technology companies don't understand the outcomes, right?
[09:32] That an insurer has to deliver or a health care payer has to deliver or even a retailer has to deliver.
[09:37] It is this combination of context, uh adoption or change management and outcome that, you know, allows us to be at the forefront.
[09:46] Let me give you an example.
[09:48] So, for example, think about underwriting in insurance, right?
[09:50] Typically, in the past, uh in the BPM world, we would have done, you know, cleaning of data, you know, massaging, transforming of data, and then we would hand it off to an underwriter at the client to make a decision on whether to write a particular risk.
[10:03] Right?
[10:03] And, you know, you would typically charge on, you know, the effort and time that was taken.
[10:06] Today, when we think about it
[10:09] With the use of AI and because we understand what are the underwriting metrics, how does a How does a particular client write a risk?
[10:16] We can actually automate that entire injection of data, enrichment of data, and even give like a risk-based decision, which the underwriter at the client says yes or no, right?
[10:28] But, we can do today 80% of that work versus 30%.
[10:31] What that means is today clients can hold us to saying, you know, we will give you a per submission or a per quote kind of outcome, and that's where we will charge you and that's where you can charge us, and that's the outcome.
[10:43] So, from time and material, you actually become a strategic partner who's looking at how much premium was written, right?
[10:49] You know, what was the risk?
[10:51] And actually, as you move up that ladder, right?
[10:53] You become a much more trusted partner, and that's the journey we're seeing the industry is on.
[10:58] Absolutely.
[11:00] Uh Justy, would you like to add that was a great tangible example, Gaurav.
[11:03] So, thank you for giving us that because I think sometimes a lot of this gets lost in jargon, but I think those tangible examples help.
[11:10] Like to jump in in case you have any examples across verticals of, you know, the kind of transformation that you're seeing that is really, you know, impressing you as well, you know?
[11:19] So, I'll I'll share one of the examples, Beverly.
[11:21] So, instead of saying we process thousands of claims, we now talk about outcomes.
[11:29] So, for a major healthcare client, transformed their document intake and processing work.
[11:35] Now, it sounds very normal, but this enabled 34 million dollars, US dollars, reduction in their administrative and servicing cost.
[11:44] And this is a real example.
[11:45] Wow, okay.
[11:46] So, that is how the value being delivered to the client is actually increasing exponentially.
[11:52] Absolutely.
[11:54] Well, those are some, like I said, very tangible figures and I think that's what brings this whole, you know, because sometimes people think about, "Okay, you talk about AI just in, you know, it sounds like hype, things like that."
[12:05] But this actually brings it home to us the kind of transformations that are being made.
[12:09] And we we've spoken about other industries as well, how it's
[12:11] Impacting, like the examples that you've given us.
[12:13] I'd like to also know, what have you felt about how AI can actually, the transformation that's happening within the BPM industry itself, in terms of how is it making it more nimble, more agile?
[12:25] I know we've touched upon this a little bit already, but if you could gather your thoughts and and give me a perspective on that.
[12:30] As well, Gaurav, if we could come back to you for that.
[12:33] Yeah, I know, absolutely, right?
[12:34] So, like, as you correctly said, Beverly, you know, like every industry is adopting AI.
[12:40] Uh, the BPM industry also has to change or disrupt the way we we actually do work.
[12:44] So, you know, from my own experience and what we are doing, right?
[12:49] So, we, if you think about the BPM industry, you know, we have five big uh, parts of operations we run, right?
[12:55] So, we recruit our talent, we train our talent, uh, we actually, you know, performance manage, coach, you know, impart knowledge to our to our talent, we, you know, manage the entire process or the outcome, and we also run compliance and audit so that, you know, we do everything within a
[13:12] Certain risk framework, right?
[13:13] These are the five things we do.
[13:16] Now, all of these five would typically have been done in a very manual manner, where we have playbooks, processes, certified, you know, it's a very well-run, well-oiled machine, which is the BPM industry, right?
[13:28] But what we've done today is we've actually put AI in all the five.
[13:30] So, today when we hire and recruit, we have AI to scan the whole right CVs.
[13:35] We have the first round actually taken by an AI, you know, assistant.
[13:40] We actually also help AI scan a much wider range of CVs, you know, get better skill sets.
[13:44] So, that's one.
[13:46] Second is when we train our people, the speed to competence uh was typically 4 to 6 months before somebody became proficient at the work they were asked to do.
[13:55] Today with, you know, AI trainers, AI simulations, right?
[13:58] And AI coach, that has gone from 4 to 6 months to 2 to 3 months.
[14:03] So, our people are getting more proficient.
[14:05] There are lesser people who are struggling.
[14:09] Our attrition is lower, right?
[14:10] And there's a much better [clears throat] environment within teams.
[14:11] Then third, we have something.
[14:13] You know, when you manage performance and knowledge, today our supervisors actually can look at a much wider range of data.
[14:18] They can query it, get insights on who are the top performers, what are the top performers actually doing better.
[14:24] That's a big insight, right?
[14:26] What are the kinds of, you know, operational decisions they are making which someone at the lower end is not making and can you coach, right?
[14:32] So, there is automated, you know, insights.
[14:35] There is automated, you know, uh I would say nudges, knowledge this thing.
[14:41] So, all of that we've done and then even audit compliance, as I said, you know, we have AI in that.
[14:46] We have a 100% audit which the AI does.
[14:48] So, again, we used to do sample-based audits.
[14:50] The clients used to be worried whether there is something we don't know about our operations.
[14:53] All of that is gone.
[14:55] So, I I just think, you know, now our operational fabric itself is AI-enabled.
[15:01] And I think that's a big shift.
[15:02] It allows us to be more efficient, uh allows us to deliver better service, and frankly allows us to be more scalable, right?
[15:08] Which is always a struggle.
[15:09] Absolutely.
[15:11] Uh Sreekanth, I I see you nodding along uh with with a lot of.
[15:13] Enthusiasm.
[15:16] So, uh, what are you? What are your points on this, you know, how AI is really actually transforming the industry also from within to make it more nimble and more agile and more efficient?
[15:26] So Beverly, I think the way I would look at it, and I think both Jessi and Gaurav have given very, very tangible examples, right?
[15:33] I mean, industry-specific examples.
[15:34] So the way it's moving is, I think the impact of AI is all about an intelligence-led model.
[15:42] It's an intelligence-led value creation model.
[15:45] Today, it is not about doing a process efficiently, but also doing it intelligently, right?
[15:52] That is important.
[15:52] The second is, even if the efficiency is going up, I think if the efficiency is definitely going up for sure, but it is also coming in with a lot of data, a lot of insights, a lot of domain-specific information, which will only make things better as you go along.
[16:09] See, today, earlier it was all the everything that you had was at a point of time.
[16:13] But today, that multiple...
[16:16] Points of time, the sigma of all of that is adding into an intelligent output.
[16:21] Which the AI is using for better decision making in the future.
[16:27] So I think that's that way the whole experience that you're giving to the end customer is changing or rather if I may call it, you are actually not only impacting your customer, you're actually impacting your customer's customer.
[16:39] So that's eventually the final customer, right?
[16:43] The person the organization where the final impact is felt, seen, heard.
[16:49] So that's the impact that AI is doing today.
[16:50] Absolutely.
[16:53] And Jessi, any any thoughts that you would like to add to this?
[16:55] Yeah, sure Beverly.
[16:57] So you know, we are also client zero for the solutions that we are creating.
[17:01] And that's how internally we are consuming a lot of AI solutions.
[17:06] And even solutions that we are co-creating with our clients or with our partners, we like to consume those internally.
[17:12] So our internal processes or the value chain that we within the organization is seeing a huge shift.
[17:19] Like Gaurav said, right from the stage when we hire, who do we hire, how do we train, how much time does it take for us to get a person proficient, what tools or accesses are we giving these individuals as they start working on production systems for our clients, what kind of controls are we putting in place.
[17:38] What can the data tell us proactively so that we avoid a situation from occurring?
[17:45] So it's actually there's a complete shift that we are seeing across the board.
[17:47] Absolutely.
[17:49] So I mean we've said data quite a few times in the last couple of seconds basically.
[17:54] So you know, obviously data is very crucial.
[17:57] Why was operationalizing data so difficult in the past?
[18:00] What was really the biggest challenge around it?
[18:03] And what do you feel has changed the game now?
[18:06] I know there may be a bit of a crossover, but if you could elaborate a little bit on that.
[18:11] Gaurav, if I could come to you.
[18:12] Yeah.
[18:13] So absolutely.
[18:15] So the typical challenge with data has been that you know, data resides in many legacy
[18:19] Systems, right?
[18:22] So that's point one.
[18:22] A lot of companies and our clients have moved on a data modernization to move the cloud, build data lakes.
[18:29] Those have all been very time consuming.
[18:31] So while some of them have brought the data in one place, there's a second problem of actually linking the data and building context around it, right?
[18:39] To what Jasjeet said, right?
[18:41] So you can have many variables, but what is the right variable, which is the risk variable to, you know, figure out what is the probability of default for a customer?
[18:48] If you ask a bank, they will not have an answer, right?
[18:52] So there is first get the data in the right spot, then do you have context in the data, right?
[18:55] These are the two things which have always and then surface it to the user or an operations or a BPM team.
[19:02] These are the three problems that have been there.
[19:03] Today with AI, right?
[19:06] You actually have AI agents who are doing that data modernization.
[19:08] You have AI agents who are actually building knowledge graphs, context graphs, right?
[19:15] To actually say so to the point about about claims that Jasjit mentioned.
[19:18] So, you have claims.
[19:20] Data, but today with graphs, you can actually say whether Gaurav had had a similar claim in the past, right?
[19:27] And if so, what was the outcome?
[19:29] You can also say that, you know, whether such claims are typically likely to be fraudulent.
[19:33] And if, you know, what is the typical time for such a claim to actually get processed so that you can manage Gaurav's expectations.
[19:40] So, all of this is actually now getting built within the, you know, context layer, which is, you know, knowledge graph, data lineage.
[19:46] Again, because AI is there, right?
[19:48] And when you put this in the hands of a user, a claims adjuster, then the kind of experience that we can offer to someone who's actually filing a claim is much better, right?
[19:58] A claims which used to take 300 days to get done takes 80 days, right?
[20:04] The decisions are much more data-led versus something which is the adjudicator or the claims adjuster thinks is the right word, which means there is less litigation, there is less customer, you know, dissatisfaction, and hence there's a customer renewal which will happen, right?
[20:18] So, that's just what AI is enabling, you know, the, you know.
[20:21] the entire data-led context and hence
[20:24] decisioning. Uh and the interesting
[20:27] thing is a lot of us in the BPM industry
[20:29] are involved in actually doing that data
[20:32] work, right? In the past, that was
[20:33] fundamentally an IT company or an
[20:34] internal company. Today, you see a lot
[20:36] of us, right? Because
[20:38] it's not good enough to have the right
[20:39] data. You need the context, as Jasjit
[20:42] said, and that context has to be used in
[20:44] a decision, and guess who makes the
[20:45] decision? The BPM industry.
[20:48] Absolutely. And, you know, talking about
[20:49] it's not just enough to have the the
[20:51] data, you have to contextualize it also.
[20:53] It's not also enough sometimes to just
[20:55] have the technology to actually bring
[20:58] fragmented enterprises together, and
[20:59] that's where I think BPM acts as that
[21:02] connective tissue. So,
[21:04] how is that still very relevant and
[21:06] important even though there is a lot of
[21:08] talk about technology, a lot of talk
[21:10] about AI. If we could get back to that
[21:12] connective tissue part of it, that would
[21:14] be great if you could elaborate on that.
[21:16] Just if I could go across to you for
[21:18] that.
[21:18] Sure. Um
[21:20] I think in today's world as we see this
[21:23] shift happening in technology, um
[21:26] if you leave people the technologies
[21:30] technologies separately and the
[21:32] operations team separately as was in the
[21:34] conventional world
[21:36] uh results are very slow.
[21:38] It takes a lot of time for those two two
[21:40] teams to come together and start
[21:42] delivering something for the customer.
[21:44] In today's age with AI actually, you are
[21:47] putting technology in the hands of the
[21:48] user.
[21:49] So what it's doing is for the industry,
[21:51] we are we have the ability to directly
[21:54] boost revenues and speed up time to
[21:56] market for our clients. And I'll give
[21:57] you a couple of examples, Beverly.
[22:00] In telecom, one of our large telecom
[22:01] clients, we helped them streamline a
[22:03] critical delivery process so which
[22:05] overall improved the impact by about 38%
[22:08] the turnaround times.
[22:10] And the client could launch services
[22:11] faster, pull forward roughly 127 million
[22:14] dollars in revenue. This is real. These
[22:15] are real numbers that I'm sharing with
[22:17] you.
[22:18] So that's not just an ops tweak, it's a
[22:20] direct financial impact. And unless you
[22:24] have someone who understands the domain
[22:26] and now has the ability to use
[22:27] technology to say, "Why can't I just
[22:30] reimagine this entire process rather
[22:32] than improving pieces of it and try and
[22:34] improve it incrementally? Let me
[22:36] reimagine what is the input and what is
[22:38] the desired outcome? And can I use AI to
[22:41] streamline this and make it much more
[22:43] efficient and quality-wise at a much
[22:46] higher level?"
[22:47] This is the kind of impact that you can
[22:49] have. Similarly for a media company, we
[22:51] used AI to automate about 70% of the ad
[22:54] scheduling workflow. It's highly
[22:56] manually intensive. The ad scheduling
[22:58] workflow and the invoicing that we do
[23:01] after the the ad is ad. Uh and that this
[23:05] is speeding up confirmation, freeing up
[23:06] staff, creating more work more
[23:09] productive work for people, and driving
[23:12] much more value for the customer.
[23:14] So, with the help of AI, when you enable
[23:17] it and give it in the hands of the user,
[23:18] somebody who understands the domain,
[23:21] BPM can actually completely reimagine
[23:23] the process and unlock a lot of real
[23:25] value for the clients.
[23:27] Absolutely. Those are some great points
[23:28] that you brought up. Ashish, would you
[23:30] like to jump in there?
[23:32] Yeah. So, you talked about this whole
[23:34] connective tissue, right? That's what
[23:35] you tried to brought in. See, if you
[23:38] really look at a large enterprise, there
[23:39] are multiple functions in the
[23:40] organization. And Gaurav touched upon
[23:43] the whole issue of, you know,
[23:45] transformation from legacy to what it is
[23:47] today, right? The age of digital. So,
[23:49] organizations also,
[23:51] if you really look at large
[23:52] organizations, multiple parts of the
[23:54] organization also admit multiple points
[23:57] of maturity on this curve. And I think
[23:58] what a BPM organization with the power
[24:01] of AI is doing today is trying to pull
[24:03] them up the value chain to the same
[24:06] level. So, that's the connective piece
[24:08] they are building in. And today, if you
[24:09] really look at the customer side of it,
[24:12] right? Today, most of these customers
[24:15] are not looking at these organizations
[24:18] as a service provider or a partner. Yes,
[24:20] they are a partner. We are not denying
[24:21] that, but it is way beyond. Today, these
[24:25] organizations have become an
[24:27] orchestrator of kinds, right? They are
[24:29] trying to bring together various pieces
[24:31] of the organization, and
[24:33] it's a win-win kind of a model that it's
[24:36] being built. And that's the that's what
[24:38] is actually making it work better and
[24:40] actually giving in all the efficiency.
[24:42] And today, if you really look at it in
[24:44] any BPM organization, uh if you look at
[24:47] an I'm I'm kind of, you know, going into
[24:49] a report of the past an NASSCOM report
[24:51] of last year, where we talked about a
[24:54] BPM shifting gears. If you really look
[24:56] at an organization and the savings or
[24:59] the the impact that it was making to the
[25:00] organization before the use of AI and
[25:03] after the use of AI, across four key
[25:05] metrics, the the the benefits have
[25:08] almost doubled. Whether it is cost
[25:10] savings or it is productivity or
[25:13] improvement of CSAT or even revenue. In
[25:15] all of these parameters, wherever it was
[25:18] in the past, it's kind of, you know,
[25:19] gone up
[25:23] to X. So, I mean, the the numbers can be
[25:25] slightly different to 20%, 25%,
[25:27] whatever. But every which way, all the
[25:29] four parameters, it's kind of doubled.
[25:31] So, that's the impact that we are able
[25:32] to
[25:32] that perspective. And talking about
[25:34] impact, I mean, we've spoken about a lot
[25:36] of positive impact at the moment. You
[25:38] know, but a lot of people, you know,
[25:40] when they hear about AI, it's not always
[25:42] a positive response to it. You know,
[25:44] people wonder, okay, is this a
[25:46] challenge? Is this an opportunity? Uh
[25:48] you know, is it a chance for us to
[25:50] reimagine and redefine as, you know, as
[25:52] we've discussed also in this in this
[25:54] conversation. So, you know, with regards
[25:56] to I mean, with AI, you're literally
[25:58] hearing a new development every day. Uh
[26:00] you know, we we talked about AI agents
[26:02] as well. What do you feel overall? I
[26:04] mean, we've we've discussed this uh a
[26:06] fair bit now.
[26:08] What do you feel overall? Is this an uh
[26:10] a challenge or an opportunity overall
[26:13] for the BPO industry? And if there are
[26:15] challenges, how does one tackle them?
[26:17] The opportunities, I think we've we've
[26:19] touched on because we've spoken about
[26:20] how we've taken the opportunities and
[26:22] run with them. But uh Gaurav, any uh
[26:24] thoughts on that?
[26:25] Yeah, absolutely. And you know, if I
[26:28] may, Beverly, I just want to also give
[26:29] an example of the connective tissue
[26:31] because, you know,
[26:32] Sure. Sure. Of course. Yes.
[26:33] something I'm very passionate about. So,
[26:35] you know, uh Jagjit gave excellent
[26:37] examples. One example which has stuck
[26:40] with me. So, you know, we as a BPO
[26:42] industry do a lot of customer service
[26:43] work, right?
[26:44] We've been doing customer service work
[26:46] for retail. In the past, our
[26:48] automations, our transformations have
[26:50] been focused on the call, right? That we
[26:52] do. So, how do you make the customer
[26:54] experience better? How do you, you know,
[26:56] equip your agents with knowledge assist,
[26:59] next best action, so that the call goes
[27:01] well and everything does, right? So,
[27:02] that's one efficiency, you know, saying
[27:05] 20-30% call efficiency.
[27:07] With AI agents, what we are seeing is
[27:09] that, you know, all the calls get
[27:11] transcribed. You actually know why a
[27:13] customer called in, why they were
[27:15] unhappy. So, one example that I want to
[27:17] share is when we did work for a
[27:19] retailer, we actually saw that there
[27:21] were 50% calls, uh you know, of a return
[27:25] of a particular SKU, which was a sofa,
[27:27] right? Now, in the past, you know, this
[27:29] would just be an insight we would give
[27:31] somebody and, you know, somebody might
[27:32] take action or not. Today with an AI
[27:34] agent, we actually give that feedback in
[27:37] an automated manner to the warehouse.
[27:39] Now, the warehouse sees that actually,
[27:41] you know, this SKU, which is a black
[27:42] sofa, on the e-commerce website, which
[27:45] is what customers are ordering, is
[27:46] actually a brown sofa which is getting
[27:48] shipped or a dark brown.
[27:49] [clears throat]
[27:50] So, you know, dark brown sofas are
[27:51] getting shipped to customers who want a
[27:52] black sofa, and guess what happens? The
[27:54] customer is calling for a return, and it
[27:56] happens. Now, with AI agents, you can
[27:59] give that feedback to the warehouse. The
[28:01] warehouse takes an action. You can
[28:02] actually give a signal to the logistics
[28:04] provider to stop the shipment, come
[28:06] back, right? And you actually, instead
[28:09] of saving two or three pounds on the
[28:11] call, you save the 100 pound of the
[28:14] logistics of a truck going, shipping,
[28:16] taking it back. So, the impact is much
[28:19] wider.
[28:20] We are connecting customer service,
[28:23] warehouse, logistics, and e-commerce
[28:26] within a retailer, right? So, this
[28:28] connection that is getting made within a
[28:30] retailer was not possible. This is the
[28:33] connective tissue enablement that AI can
[28:36] drive, right? So, it makes us from a run
[28:39] a contact center
[28:40] to actually help me, you know, make my
[28:42] entire e-commerce operations more
[28:45] efficient and effective.
[28:47] And I think that's really powerful.
[28:49] Right? Now Now to your second question
[28:51] so good. That's all I wanted to say.
[28:54] But let's come to your point about or
[28:55] your main question on the challenges,
[28:57] right? Now, this is all what I'm saying
[28:59] is great, right? This is what's going
[29:01] well. Uh
[29:02] the issue is, you know, in this kind of
[29:05] a design, you do need very strong
[29:08] engineering muscle, right? And the BPM
[29:11] industry has had to invest where we've
[29:13] invested in data analytics, but
[29:15] engineering is something that we've had.
[29:17] So, that's on getting it all together.
[29:20] The part that, you know, about outcomes,
[29:23] we need to retrain and re-pivot our
[29:26] operations team from people who do
[29:28] manage a process
[29:29] to actually people who manage an
[29:30] outcome, right? Because that's what
[29:32] Jasjit and I said. So, that's a very
[29:34] different mindset, right? It's a mindset
[29:36] where you say, "Look, I have all the
[29:38] tooling, right? It's just about how do I
[29:39] do the right thing for the customer. I
[29:41] don't do A and B, I can do A, B, C, or
[29:44] even, you know, something else, right?"
[29:45] So, it's a very different mindset. We
[29:47] have to change the goals. We have to
[29:49] change the way we train our people. So,
[29:51] that's another thing which is on
[29:52] boarding, but it's something that I
[29:54] think only we can do, right? So, that's
[29:55] a big pivot that we are making. And I
[29:58] would say the third thing is that, you
[30:00] know, there is a brand and there is a
[30:02] certain kind of credibility uh to do
[30:05] this end-to-end transformation which,
[30:07] you know, has always not always been
[30:09] with the BPM industry, which again, with
[30:11] the help of NASSCOM, is what we want to
[30:13] change, right? Because uh I think it
[30:15] does the industry and a lot of us a big
[30:18] disservice.
[30:19] Mhm. All right. Well, I I love what you
[30:22] said about it's not just a wing about
[30:23] managing the processes, it's about
[30:25] managing the outcomes as well. And I
[30:26] think that sort of uh summed up a lot of
[30:28] what we spoke about in the kind of pivot
[30:30] and the kind of mindset shift that is
[30:32] actually happening. And Jasjit, would
[30:33] you like to uh add anything to what
[30:35] Gaurav said?
[30:36] Sure. I mean, I agree with everything
[30:38] that Gaurav said, but I also
[30:39] see that, yeah.
[30:40] I don't see it as a threat, Pebbly.
[30:42] Uh I think it's in in many ways coming
[30:45] of age for the BPM industry.
[30:47] So, it's more like an evolutionary leap,
[30:51] if I may call it. And it's giving BPM
[30:54] new power to deliver better outcomes.
[30:56] So, it's going to change the way the BPM
[30:58] industry has been viewed in the past.
[31:00] Now, in the short term, it could be a
[31:01] little bumpy for some people.
[31:03] Upskilling yourself is extremely
[31:05] important. So, I I see more opportunity
[31:07] than threat. There is a misconception
[31:09] that this might be the end. I mean, this
[31:11] is the third time the obituary for the
[31:12] industry has been written. I don't see
[31:14] if we are anywhere close to the end. I
[31:16] think this this is this will eventually
[31:17] lead to many more opportunities for the
[31:19] industry and for the people who are
[31:21] engaged
[31:22] in our industry. So, it's going to be
[31:25] it's going to be a combination of
[31:27] consulting-led, AI-powered,
[31:29] outcome-driven. Platform is going to
[31:31] play an extremely important part. Gaurav
[31:33] has spoke about engineering being
[31:35] integral to it. So, it will change the
[31:38] form and shape of how we deliver
[31:40] services is going to change
[31:41] significantly, but it's going to be it's
[31:43] going to look really good at the end of
[31:45] it.
[31:46] Great. So, the thing is, you know, I
[31:47] mean, like you said, it may be a bit
[31:49] bumpy initially. I actually wanted to
[31:51] ask about, you know, what happens in if
[31:55] there's an employee who wants to know
[31:56] what the future is going to look like or
[31:58] people who want to get into this
[31:59] industry. What should they be upskilling
[32:02] themselves with? What will the workforce
[32:05] in BPM really look like? What will
[32:06] people really want? What are the kind of
[32:08] skill sets that will be in demand? Is
[32:10] that something that you can shed some
[32:12] light on?
[32:14] Srikanth, if if you have some thoughts
[32:16] on that?
[32:17] Okay. So, I I
[32:19] see, I think one important piece that we
[32:22] should look at it and I think to the
[32:23] point that just Jake made, right?
[32:26] The whole transformation of the talent
[32:27] also is happening from a process to an
[32:29] outcome-driven model. First piece that
[32:32] we need to train our people on is the
[32:33] mindset.
[32:35] Mhm. very important, right? I mean, I I
[32:37] I know for sure that, you know, I can't
[32:38] get away by doing something just because
[32:40] I'm told to do, but how can I do it
[32:42] better? How can How am I using the power
[32:44] of technology that's given to me? And
[32:46] today, the power of technology is
[32:48] democratized. It's no more the
[32:50] the private of a few people in the
[32:51] organization. Today, it's in the hands
[32:53] of everybody. How do you use it best is
[32:55] in your hands. That's one. The second, I
[32:57] think, which most of the organizations
[32:59] are doing and as NASSCOM went with the
[33:02] BPM council, we're doing a lot of work
[33:03] today we're giving to do a lot of work
[33:05] today
[33:06] is about how do we also equip people not
[33:08] only to do their job, but also on the
[33:10] domain. Because today, domain becomes
[33:12] extremely critical. The
[33:15] It's the era of having good domain
[33:17] knowledge to do your job better and more
[33:19] efficiently. So, how do we equip people?
[33:22] So, one is to equip them today. Second
[33:24] is, since you asked about talent, it's
[33:26] also about going to the organic talent,
[33:30] the talent of the future,
[33:32] the colleges, the universities, and
[33:33] trying to catch that talent early on,
[33:36] catch them young, and try to embed all
[33:39] this in the talent early so that we get
[33:42] a reasonably ready-made talent when they
[33:45] come to the industry. So, these are the
[33:46] things that we need to do. It's all
[33:48] about It's not just about the use of
[33:49] technology, but the understanding of
[33:51] domain, the attributes, the various
[33:53] other attributes that come with it about
[33:56] Now, whether it is
[33:57] cognitive thinking and so on and so
[33:59] forth. All of that together will make
[34:01] the talent of the future. So, multiple
[34:03] pieces of things get added to it here.
[34:06] Right. Absolutely. Gaurav, if I could
[34:07] come across to you for your thought.
[34:09] Yeah, you know, so
[34:11] Srikanth is right. I just add a couple
[34:13] of things which I would give as, you
[34:14] know, piece of advice to anybody who
[34:16] wants to join our industry.
[34:19] One is, as, you know,
[34:21] Srikanth and Jagjit said, domain is
[34:22] important. So, someone who wants to make
[34:24] a career in insurance, in banking, in
[34:28] retail, in telecom, right? And really
[34:31] wants to understand how these industries
[34:32] and you know, enterprises function. I I
[34:34] think there's no better place than the
[34:37] BPM industry.
[34:39] I'll just take one, you know, I think
[34:40] Jagjit said in the beginning that this
[34:41] is probably the most cross-functional
[34:43] team. So, there is, you know, a domain
[34:45] SME, there's a data engineer, there's an
[34:47] AI engineer, there's a, you know,
[34:49] business analyst, a PM. The quarterback
[34:52] of all this is still the domain SME,
[34:54] right? The quarterback who delivers
[34:55] enough. The quarterback is from our
[34:57] industry. So, if you want to be the
[34:58] quarterback, right, of how our industry
[35:01] or enterprise transforms, join us.
[35:04] Second, right?
[35:06] I just think that, you know, we are
[35:08] multi-skilling people, as Srikanth said,
[35:10] right? We have, you know, people are
[35:12] getting skilled on how to use AI, how to
[35:14] understand data-led decisions. So, if
[35:15] you want to really get skilled across
[35:18] multiple technologies, right? Then
[35:20] again, this is the right industry,
[35:21] right? You can go to, you know,
[35:23] specific, you know, technology companies
[35:25] and be really good at one, but if you
[35:27] want a broader view of what technologies
[35:29] and data can do, then multi-skilling
[35:31] happens in BPM, right? So, I think
[35:32] that's the second reason why you would
[35:34] want to actually join us, right? So, you
[35:36] are at the forefront of transformation
[35:38] and you're getting skilled on the latest
[35:40] and greatest. I think these are two very
[35:42] powerful things,
[35:43] which, you know, you will not get in all
[35:44] the industries.
[35:46] Absolutely. Well, that was very
[35:48] inspirational words for the youth. I
[35:50] think in times of a lack of clarity, I
[35:52] think you provided some really great
[35:54] clarity. So, thank you so much for that.
[35:56] Jagjit, any final thoughts on this
[35:58] particular aspect of it?
[36:00] Yeah, so I I'd like to say something
[36:03] that I say very often, Beverly, that AI
[36:05] is not going to take your job away. Mhm.
[36:08] People who know how to use AI will take
[36:10] your jobs away.
[36:12] So, my advice is get used to using AI,
[36:15] get familiar with it. Domain is not
[36:17] going anywhere. Domain is extremely
[36:18] important, will be relevant in the
[36:20] future. So, learn domain, be clear about
[36:22] what you want to do, and then learn how
[36:25] how use AI effectively.
[36:27] Absolutely. And my final question to all
[36:29] of you gentlemen, you know, India has
[36:31] been such a big part of this entire
[36:33] story. You know, I think like what Jessy
[36:36] said, you know, the BPM industry has
[36:38] been written off many times, but perhaps
[36:40] it's not a closed book. It is a whole
[36:42] new chapter, a whole new page we're
[36:43] entering into. What personally excites
[36:46] each one of you about this chapter going
[36:48] forward and India's part in this whole
[36:51] story as well?
[36:54] Shrikant, if we can come to you first.
[36:56] Okay, sure. So So I I think Jessy said
[36:59] this, right? I mean, the the the
[37:01] write-off has been done many many times
[37:02] and the very fact that it has been
[37:03] resilient to come back every time, I
[37:05] think at least this part of the story
[37:08] should stop. I I don't think it needs to
[37:10] be written off anymore. I mean, it's now
[37:12] loud and clear that it'll continue.
[37:14] What excites me today is I think I
[37:16] talked about it, is about the whole
[37:18] democratization piece. I think today
[37:20] with the power of technology and the
[37:22] kind of talent that the industry
[37:23] attracts, it's no more private to a
[37:25] particular kind of STEM talent or so and
[37:28] so forth. So I think the best part is
[37:31] today this is an industry which goes far
[37:34] and wide in the country. And I think
[37:36] it's able to impact the economy, it's
[37:38] able to impact the industry from
[37:40] wherever it is. It does not matter
[37:42] whether you're in in a metro city or
[37:44] within a small city. It does not really
[37:46] matter. It really matters on how you're
[37:49] able to deliver this. And that's the
[37:51] biggest piece of the BPM industry is
[37:52] doing today, their ability to go to a a
[37:56] so-called small town or a tier two or a
[37:59] tier three city and still make the
[38:01] impact to the global customer or the
[38:02] global enterprise is something that's
[38:04] really exciting. It'll contribute to the
[38:07] industry, it'll contribute to the
[38:08] country in every which way.
[38:10] All right, thank you for those thoughts.
[38:12] Very hopeful, you know, thought process
[38:15] there. And Gaurav, if you'd like to add
[38:17] in there, what exactly are you most
[38:18] excited about going forward?
[38:20] So So clearly, Beverly, I've talked
[38:22] about all the excitement. So, you know
[38:25] That's true. I'm sure you have a little
[38:27] left over.
[38:28] Yeah, yeah, [laughter] yeah.
[38:29] So, you know look
[38:31] in my mind there are three things,
[38:32] right? First, at least as
[38:35] Jashjit said, right? There's a lot of
[38:36] noise in the market. But, the reality is
[38:39] that all of us in the BPO industry are
[38:41] growing, right? So, first of all, the
[38:42] fact is that we are growing, which means
[38:45] we are delivering value to our customers
[38:48] and we are relevant, right? So, that's
[38:49] point one, which makes me very very
[38:51] very, you know,
[38:52] you know, optimistic. Second is at the
[38:56] base foundation of delivering ROI from
[38:59] AI, right? Is a deep understanding of
[39:02] your customer,
[39:04] a deep embedding of a customer service
[39:06] DNA, right? To solve the last mile and
[39:10] uh
[39:11] a very clear understanding of the
[39:12] outcome we have to deliver.
[39:13] Mhm.
[39:14] I don't think any technology company,
[39:16] with all due respect, has, you know,
[39:18] apart from, you know, clients obviously
[39:20] have their internal teams have, but no
[39:21] other industry has these three in
[39:24] abundance because we've done it for the
[39:25] last 40 years as the BPO industry,
[39:27] right? So, if anybody can do it, and it
[39:30] has to be done because otherwise there
[39:31] is a lot of investment for no ROI and
[39:33] that is not sustainable, it cannot be
[39:35] sustained. So, I think we are in the
[39:36] right spot and we have a great tailwind.
[39:39] And third, I'll just give you, you know,
[39:41] it certainly increases the target
[39:43] addressable market for all of us, right?
[39:44] I'll give you one example and then I'll
[39:46] end, right? In the past, let's say for a
[39:49] bank, right? If they wanted to launch a
[39:50] new product, a lending product, they
[39:52] would have come to the BPO industry, set
[39:55] up a customer service, you know, set up
[39:57] a team for back office, and we, you
[39:59] know, would have done that and would
[40:00] have done it well.
[40:01] Today they come to us and say, you know,
[40:02] we want to launch this lending product,
[40:05] but because you have a full suite
[40:06] offering, why don't you also bring in
[40:08] the technology to actually onboard the
[40:10] customer? Yes, you can do customer
[40:12] service with people, maybe with agents,
[40:15] maybe with a combination, we leave it to
[40:17] you. We also have audit, regulation and
[40:19] compliance which again you can do with
[40:21] your AI and your people and you can also
[40:23] do collection. So the full suit they
[40:26] give us the mandate to drive, right? So
[40:28] the conversation has shifted from do
[40:30] this piece of work
[40:32] to solve this entire, you know, new
[40:35] product launch for me and by the way you
[40:36] run it with people, AI and how you do it
[40:39] is up to you because by the way you know
[40:41] my outcome, you know my context and you
[40:43] know how I work, right? And I think
[40:45] that's the opportunity which clearly you
[40:48] can see is much wider than what we had
[40:50] in the past and so I think our
[40:52] opportunity set is at least 4-5 X which
[40:55] is also, you know, what makes me really
[40:57] optimistic.
[40:58] Absolutely. Well, your enthusiasm is
[41:00] very contagious, I must say. So thank
[41:02] you for sharing that with us and
[41:04] Jasteet, any final thoughts? I know it
[41:07] might be tough to top Gaurav's
[41:09] enthusiasm, but
[41:11] I'm sure you can give it a shot.
[41:12] I won't even try and follow that. He's
[41:14] amazing, Beverly, but
[41:16] I think firstly I'm excited because I
[41:19] get to be a part of this change. So I
[41:21] think it's a huge opportunity for
[41:22] everyone to re- learn new things,
[41:24] reinvent the industry
[41:26] and take it up. So that means a lot.
[41:29] I also think India is extremely
[41:31] relevant, has been, is, will be.
[41:34] Not just because of demographics, but
[41:37] also if you look at the talent and the
[41:38] usage of AI today and if you look at the
[41:41] data,
[41:42] it tells you a very different story that
[41:44] India has suddenly become a huge
[41:46] consumer of AI.
[41:48] So people are learning, they're very
[41:51] keen and curious. So they're picking up
[41:53] new skills at a very rapid pace. Human
[41:55] in the loop is going to be there no
[41:57] matter how much AI you bring in, even
[41:59] for autonomous cars you need somebody to
[42:01] monitor whether things are going fine,
[42:02] they're stuck in a traffic jam which
[42:04] can't be resolved and you need human
[42:05] intervention. So and what Gaurav said, I
[42:08] think the addressable market changes
[42:10] completely. There will be new skills,
[42:13] new capabilities that we will see emerge
[42:16] in the industry over the next 12 to 24
[42:19] months.
[42:20] And those people will continue to bring
[42:22] in more growth as we progress. So,
[42:25] sovereign is one side. We understand the
[42:27] emotion and the sentiment given the
[42:28] geopolitics today.
[42:30] But where does the talent sit? Where can
[42:32] you get accessible talent to enable the
[42:35] whole transition or transformation?
[42:38] Absolutely. Well, you know, we've spoken
[42:40] a lot today about adding value and how
[42:42] the human in the loop will always be
[42:44] necessary. So, thank you all gentlemen
[42:47] for keeping us in the loop about what is
[42:49] happening with the BPM industry and of
[42:52] course the transformation with AI and
[42:54] how the BPM industry is really using AI,
[42:56] I would say to elevate its position, you
[42:59] know. So, thank you so very much for
[43:01] that and for giving us such tangible
[43:02] examples going forward and for sharing
[43:05] your enthusiasm to reimagine and
[43:08] reinvent the BPM industry. Thank you so
[43:10] very much to each and every one of you.
[43:13] Thank you. Thank you.
[43:14] What a pleasure.
[43:15] Thank you.
[43:16] Thank you.
[43:22] [music]