# Exclusive: US and Iran 'genuinely want the ceasefire', says Turkish Foreign Minister | On The Record

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdcG0IRCm6A

[00:09] Your Excellency, thank you so much for joining me on the record.
[00:11] Thank you for having me.
[00:13] So, yesterday we heard from President Trump at the NATO summit saying the deal with Iran is over and now it seems as if he's walking that back.
[00:19] Walk me through what you're hearing from the Iranians.
[00:23] Well, uh I think uh you know to be honest when uh we heard President Trump, you know, it was I think this is our understanding he doesn't really mean that you know the ceasefire is over.
[00:36] I think he was basically referring that there is a retaliation actually to what was happening between Iran and United States.
[00:43] Uh I think uh there was a lack of communications and misunderstanding between both sides uh in terms of how to implement the passage through the straight of Hermus and I had a phone call uh today uh with my Iranian counterpart.
[00:57] I think uh uh I have had a deeper understanding of the root of the uh problem.
[01:05] Uh so um they need to have better communications and better deconlicting.
[01:10] Mechanisms.
[01:11] Yeah.
[01:11] In your mind, are we going to see an end to this conflict anytime soon given these kinds of lack of communication?
[01:18] Well, I think at the same time they are learning from the uh mistakes.
[01:22] This is for sure.
[01:23] And uh and the good thing is both sides they genuinely want to have a ceasefire and to move ahead with the peace agreement.
[01:33] So this is what we uh rely on actually.
[01:37] Uh but uh nevertheless there is always a percentage of uh accident uh you know uh possible and uh because of miscommunications or uh provocations and retaliations.
[01:52] So we have to be very careful.
[01:55] So uh not only Turkey but the international community and the regional countries uh they are a little bit worried about uh what will happen again because nobody would like to see the restart of the war.
[02:07] Yeah.
[02:07] Uh because those things were taking place just in the middle of NATO.
[02:11] Summit here and we were witnessing the reactions of the world leaders, the European leaders and the alliance because their economies are hurting quite a bit.
[02:21] Absolutely.
[02:21] Absolutely.
[02:21] Because the markets have already bought that the peace is coming and the straight is open.
[02:28] So the prices have just started stabilizing.
[02:31] So nobody would like to go back to a stress position.
[02:34] Yeah.
[02:34] No doubt.
[02:34] Tell me this.
[02:34] Turkey is beginning to play even a larger role perhaps in sort of not just being a conduit of information but also finding ways to communicate, be the sort of the notch in the belt if you will between the United States and Iran.
[02:51] Yeah.
[02:51] Well certainly I mean we are trying to do our best really because we really believe that peace is the only way not only for the war on Iran but in Ukraine, in Gaza, in Lebanon, elsewhere in our region and beyond our region.
[03:03] We need a quiet time, we need peace for our region.
[03:10] So we are trying to do our best.
[03:12] Together with our friends and President Erdogan and his government members, you know, we've been working with our neighborhood over 20 years and we know everybody; we know the dynamics of every conflict.
[03:28] So I think we are best positioned to really understand and how to help stop that.
[03:35] So in your mind, um, the US European partners, NATO allies, really understand it's important to scale back, turn the temperature down.
[03:44] Absolutely.
[03:45] Absolutely.
[03:46] Yeah.
[03:46] Tell me.
[03:47] Except for Israel.
[03:48] Yeah.
[03:49] I was going to ask you about that.
[03:49] So the rhetoric between Turkey and Israel has been rather tense of late.
[03:57] In your mind, will this lead to an open conflict between Turkey and Israel?
[04:00] Well, I think there is no reason to have an open conflict, just since you are asking, because you know, but as I've been telling, whenever I hear this.
[04:14] Rhetoric coming from the Israeli politicians, especially as they uh get closer to the upcoming elections, uh from both some opposition figures—not all the opposition figures, thanks God, that are still very sane and uh good people with wisdom and strategic mind in Israel.
[04:33] Not all of them like Netanyahu and his people.
[04:35] Uh, but Netanyahu and some people, as they get closer to the elections, they they need enemy because after they wage war on Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran, they need another enemy to get somebody pity them and to, you know, uh.
[04:53] And you think they're trying to do that to Turkey?
[04:55] Absolutely.
[04:55] Absolutely.
[04:56] Put you in the firing line, if you will.
[04:57] Yeah.
[04:58] Well, uh, but uh what we've been telling uh Netanyahu, the policies of Netanyahu government is not only problem for us; we are not shy away this is saying from this.
[05:13] His policies and his government is a.
[05:15] Burden for Israel is a burden for region and is a burden and threat for the international security.
[05:21] We've been telling this for a long time, not because everybody believes this.
[05:27] You know, everywhere you go, everybody agrees with the fact that Netanyahu and his policies is a security threat for international security and economic security.
[05:38] Do you think Trump gets that?
[05:41] I think so.
[05:42] Yeah.
[05:43] Yeah.
[05:43] And it's been an evolving process, evolving process.
[05:45] And his leadership has a way of, you know, dealing with this phenomenon.
[05:52] Yeah.
[05:52] When you think about what happens next, god forbid there would be an open conflict between your country and Israel.
[05:58] I asked Secretary General Rut here at the NATO summit about whether that would trigger Article 5.
[06:03] Um, and he said the president of Turkey is a very wise leader and I think he wouldn't be baited into anything.
[06:11] But that wasn't an answer.
[06:14] Would you expect Article 5 to be?
[06:18] Well, for Article 5 the conditions are very clear.
[06:20] The provisions are very clear.
[06:24] An attack on one NATO member is an attack on all.
[06:27] And but our president is a leader of peace and wisdom.
[06:30] You know, when you look at his policies in the region for more than 20 years that he's been ruling this country, it has been demonstrated again and again.
[06:43] Apart from fighting against terrorism, he has always developed best ways of cooperating with regional government and international community because he's coming from you know he's been a mayor of Istanbul in early '90s.
[07:04] Now he knows the importance of serving people.
[07:07] He knows how people are suffering.
[07:09] If there's a destabilization, if there is a insecurity, so he understands the importance of peace.
[07:17] So then we can work on development.
[07:20] Regional cooperation, regional development and financial stability.
[07:25] So during his term, it has been demonstrated over the years this pattern.
[07:32] But when you look at Netanyahu, look at his term, almost the same years always were.
[07:41] Do you feel that European leaders, that their eyes are open when it comes to the leadership in Israel today?
[07:48] I hope so.
[07:48] I think many of them, you know, they realize the danger that Netanyahu policies of the Netanyahu government is posing.
[07:57] They understand this, but they need to develop ways of dealing with this problem.
[08:04] Yes.
[08:04] Well, they're afraid.
[08:06] Yeah.
[08:06] Yeah.
[08:06] When you think about what happens next in the region, what is your outlook?
[08:11] Are we going to see the temperature turned down in the near term?
[08:14] Because it's been very tough on the GCC countries with all of the conflict in the Strait of Hormuz and.
[08:21] Then conversely, it's actually put Turkey in an incredible position to really be a conduit of economic diplomacy.
[08:28] Mhm.
[08:28] Well, when you look at the uh the powerful countries of GCC, uh they may disagree on many things, but they agree on one thing.
[08:36] Peace is needed.
[08:38] Nobody is warmongering.
[08:41] Nobody is after the stabilization in the region.
[08:43] They understands the importance of the peace especially you know after this last episode of the uh war uh on Iran.
[08:56] So they understand it and uh so why this is important especi if everybody in the region has the same opinion so they can have the same uh policies to act upon it.
[09:10] This is important.
[09:11] So when we come together actually uh we really uh discuss how to have a new order in our region based on peace.
[09:21] Uh, and this is beyond the GCC.
[09:24] Yeah.
[09:24] Beyond GCC.
[09:24] Yeah.
[09:24] Beyond it covers uh uh the entire region.
[09:29] Yeah.
[09:30] Uh so because um most of the time in the past the region was uh expecting all the solutions from outside powers from the haman.
[09:39] Yes.
[09:39] Uh so I think it is time for the region to have uh to burden the problems of our uh to shoulder the problems of our region and to show ownership and I think this is what is happening.
[09:55] You are working with Pakistan, Egypt, um and Saudi Arabia.
[09:59] Yeah and Saudi Arabia, um, but that does leave out some of these other GCC countries.
[10:03] Do you think that inevitably they'll be a part of this group of four nations?
[10:07] Well, in a way they are part of the uh discussions.
[10:09] Because when Saudi Arabia is talking to us, it's not only Saudi Arabia is talking to us, it's the rest of the GCC.
[10:18] Because Saudi Arabia is in constant communications with the others and so.
[10:22] Are we?
[10:22] You know, we talk to each other.
[10:24] It's not only...
[10:25] You don't feel like Qatar and UAE are left out of the process?
[10:28] No, no, no, no, no.
[10:28] We are just four countries from different regions from different ethnicities of the uh Muslim world coming together defining the problem to see how we can own the problem in a very informal and practical way and then disseminate these views and information with the other regional countries to see what they think how they feel to get feedback then start discussions again this an evolving process.
[10:54] Yeah.
[10:54] And this is something in your mind that's going to be more effective frankly than the organizations we've had before, Arab League, GCC etc.
[11:01] Well, they are too formal.
[11:02] Uh so uh to have a you know good decision or permanent decision from a formal organization is very difficult and it may not be that much effective.
[11:11] So these are working conversations, working groups if you will.
[11:13] Absolutely.
[11:14] Yeah.
[11:15] Tell me this.
[11:16] Um it's an ongoing conversation I know about um the future of Syria.
[11:20] Obviously the United States is
[11:22] Very heavily invested in Mr. Alshara.
[11:25] Um, but just a few days ago, Mr. McCron was visiting and you know there were explosions under his hotel room.
[11:31] How do you gauge the security of Syria today?
[11:34] Well, um, there might be some minor security problems overall, but when you look at how things are evolving in Syria, uh, this is not only my assessment or our Turkey assessment, but when you look at the other regional powers and international powers, I think they agree on certain things that I am going to tell, which is uh Syria is on the right direction in terms of consolidating the things inside the country and healing the wounds of the country and trying to revive the economy and trying to attract the people back to country and trying to address the problem of YPGs and the rights of the Kurds and what's happening, uh, what will happen with the minority and the problems in the south.
[12:23] I think the mindset and the policy framework is more or less on the right track but in terms of implementation it is taking time.
[12:29] Uh none of the problems for the time being uh is uh that big.
[12:41] Mhm.
[12:41] So uh I think with the help of the intern regional uh governments and international community the Syrian government will be able to overcome all these existence issues because it is the interest of the region as well.
[12:53] There is one risk though uh for Syria is the uh policies of Israel.
[13:03] Yes.
[13:04] So we are not sure if Israel wants to see a stable, good, powerful, evolving, developed Syria.
[13:13] Do you believe they're actively trying to destabilize them now?
[13:16] Uh when you look at the past and current patterns of the Israeli government towards the regional uh countries, yes.
[13:23] Yeah.
[13:23] Is that something you're afraid of?
[13:26] This is something that we don't want to see.
[13:27] This is something that we want to communicate to the Israelis together with the regional governments.
[13:32] Look, stop a strategy that sees your security should come from someone's else in security and division.
[13:45] Mhm.
[13:46] Let's change this.
[13:46] You know in the region, other countries in the region when they developed uh stable and secure, that might also work good for you too.
[14:01] But since they are in the business of occupation all the time, they know that the occupied people have uh feelings and connections from heart to heart to the uh people of the region.
[14:16] So that's why they are afraid of the fact that that feeling, that connection is always dangerous for Israel as long.
[14:23] As they maintain this occupation policy.
[14:26] Tell me about what's happening in Gaza because obviously Turkey was a major signatory to President Trump's um peace advisory board, if you will.
[14:34] We talked about it when we spoke in Davos several months ago.
[14:36] Where is that today?
[14:40] Gaza peace plan supported by um and led by President Trump and supported by us and uh as a result we have had a board of peace and I think it was very much instrumental in stopping the genocide.
[14:57] So in that regard it played an historical role.
[14:59] But in terms of seeing the deliverables that has been uh promised by the plan itself especially seeing the people uh that they are getting enough uh humanitarian assistance.
[15:15] Mhm.
[15:16] Shelter and medicine.
[15:20] Uh I think in that part um the plan has.
[15:25] Not fully uh success succeeded yet.
[15:28] Mhm.
[15:28] So we need to get more pressure from international community to put on Israel uh to let Palestinians get more uh international humanitarian aid.
[15:42] Unfortunately, the war in the Gulf was um distracted the attention of regional and international uh community from Gaza toward itself.
[15:53] Mhm.
[15:55] So hopefully when there is a agreement or long-term ceasefire between the parties, then they can refocus on Gaza problem and the humanitarian tragedy that that is still taking place in Gaza because we cannot forget about the fate of 2 million people.
[16:12] Now they are in the middle of heat and summer.
[16:16] Yes.
[16:17] In open air and they will go to another winter without shelter.
[16:20] In your mind, is there a way to do that without sanctions on Israel?
[16:25] Well, as I said, this is subject to diplomacy of international community and international organizations and alliances like EU, like OIC, like Arab League, like United Nations.
[16:36] Yes.
[16:36] Who've all been largely unsuccessful?
[16:38] Is it going to have to be President Trump who rolls that final dice?
[16:43] Well, certainly the US leadership historically plays vital role in on Israel.
[16:50] Um, we'll see.
[16:52] We'll see how it evolves.
[16:55] In your mind, um what's the other potential hot spot?
[16:57] Because we're talking about Syria and the potential for the Israelis um to undermine that country's security and undermine that country's leadership.
[17:05] What about Iraq?
[17:08] Where are they today?
[17:08] Now we have new prime minister and elected government in Iraq which we um openly support uh as we have supported the previous governments because whoever Iraqi people elect is very uh sacred for us too but uh they have some structural uh problems that they had inherited from the um previous.
[17:28] Decades.
[17:28] So um and most of the Iraqi leaders they recognize the existence of those problems although they cannot acknowledge publicly because some of the things should be dealt with you know behind the scenes.
[17:42] If they being publicly acknowledged it well it might cause bigger problems.
[17:47] So um but uh we need to talk to the Iranians uh to about the stability of uh and sovereignty of Iraq together with other countries as well, because um Iraq has great potential.
[18:05] If they can release themselves from the Iranian yoke, they have great potential.
[18:10] Uh but last two decades, as you know, they haven't seen anything but war, occupation, uh destruction, uh death.
[18:23] Mhm.
[18:23] But now, um they've been going through some quite time.
[18:26] Um.
[18:29] I think it is time now to correct the things and the Iraqi politicians they recognize this but we need to have a quiet time.
[18:41] They shouldn't go back to the war mode.
[18:44] Yeah.
[18:44] Do you feel that the Iranians can be convinced to back off?
[18:49] Well, if we have enough quiet time, if we have quiet time, we can have a better conversation with the Iranians.
[18:54] Yeah.
[18:54] When I had the chance for an exclusive interview with the new prime minister just a few weeks ago, um, you know, he told me about his plans, you know, to cut down on corruption.
[19:03] We've seen him already beginning that across the country in recent days.
[19:06] He also talked to me about the potential, um, to suspend membership in OPEC in order to make sure that they could, you know, produce oil at the capacity that they need to for their economy.
[19:16] Um, and I understand that those plans are in place.
[19:18] In your mind, um, is this a prime minister that the Iraqi people can get behind because he has big ideas and he says he's not going to be controlled by Iran?
[19:30] Well, as I said, I mean, if we have new vision for our region, I think the actors in the region, they will not act with the old way.
[19:40] Yeah.
[19:41] So that's why we need new vision for new action.
[19:44] Yeah.
[19:44] So with the old vision you'll get to see the old action all the time which is not helping us much.
[19:51] So you're cautiously optimistic about?
[19:53] No, I am just trying to tell what we need actually because we need to recognize what we need collectively first then we need to act upon it.
[20:02] Yes.
[20:02] Uh this is how we would like to move forward.
[20:04] So um if Iran feels it safe because they've been sanctioned and attacked for the last three decades.
[20:14] So I think it is time to have a fundamental change for everybody in the region towards what end?
[20:20] Towards peace, stability, uh sovereignty and territorial integrity of every country in the region.
[20:31] This should be our uh objective
[20:33] collectively. This is what we are now
[20:36] discussing with other uh countries uh in
[20:39] the region. Otherwise with the old
[20:41] understanding
[20:43] uh we will get old implementations and
[20:46] policies.
[20:46] In your mind is there an opportunity um
[20:49] or possibility that Iran will perhaps
[20:52] abandon its child which is Hezbollah
[20:54] because proxies aren't addressed at
[20:56] least publicly yet in this conversation
[20:58] between the United States and the
[20:59] Iranians.
[21:00] You are asking very direct questions.
[21:02] [laughter] This is your job but uh
[21:04] it's my reputation. I know I know um you
[21:07] know uh it's better to ask this to
[21:10] Iranians but if you ask me
[21:13] how I see things uh in a way that should
[21:16] be u addressed in a better as I said we
[21:19] need to go back
[21:21] a situation where the sovereignty and
[21:25] integ territorial integrity of every
[21:27] nation is fully recognized accepted and
[21:32] safety and security because Iran uh has
[21:35] claimed for a long time that uh it was
[21:37] like a preemptive uh security uh
[21:42] policies that they've been taking by
[21:44] having these uh they call it friends in
[21:46] those countries. So it's a
[21:48] [clears throat] part of the wider
[21:49] security arrangement just like the
[21:51] Israelis are occupying the rest of the
[21:54] region uh as part of the security uh but
[21:58] if we get a new security understanding
[22:00] which will guarantee safety, security,
[22:04] political uh sovereignty and territorial
[22:06] integrity of every party in the region
[22:08] with a new understanding. I think
[22:11] it should tell them look we can go back
[22:14] to our corners.
[22:15] Yes. and let them be where they are and
[22:18] start cooperating in a like a proper
[22:20] nation states because we are in the age
[22:22] of nation states and these countries
[22:24] they have their own borders including
[22:26] Palestine
[22:28] they have their borders internationally
[22:29] recognized and they have their
[22:32] administrations elected leadersh
[22:35] so um of course the degree of
[22:38] cooperation among the nations and uh
[22:41] people no one can interfere that
[22:44] they are free to have
[22:46] ultimate relations among ourselves as
[22:48] long as it doesn't constitute a threat
[22:51] to the other party in the region.
[22:52] [clears throat]
[22:53] My belief Iran is mature enough uh to
[22:56] understand all these realities. M so uh
[22:59] hopefully if we reach a peace agreement
[23:02] between United States and Iran then uh
[23:06] we can really start having a healthy
[23:08] discussions even with Iran with the
[23:10] regional countries because there has
[23:12] been some uh
[23:14] you know ongoing problems.
[23:16] Yes. uh in the region uh that has been
[23:18] overlooked for a long time but uh it was
[23:22] always there and it created irritants uh
[23:24] between the parties that will prevented
[23:26] them to advance their cooperation in a
[23:29] with a mutual trust that way. So I think
[23:32] we have to be uh frank, transparent and
[23:35] sincere in defining and communicating
[23:39] our problems at this time and finding
[23:41] them a solution. In your mind, are we
[23:43] going to get a peace for Lebanon?
[23:45] For that, we need to change the security
[23:48] perception of Israel
[23:50] and how do you do that?
[23:52] Well, we need to have a good discussion
[23:54] with regional and international
[23:56] partnersh
[23:57] about that.
[23:58] Mhm. Is that a conversation you can have
[24:00] with Netanyahu?
[24:02] [sighs]
[24:03] Well,
[24:06] let's hope that uh we have a better
[24:08] government.
[24:08] Yeah. totally
[24:11] tell me the United States and Turkey
[24:14] ongoing conversations about the F-35s.
[24:16] How quickly do you think we're going to
[24:18] see that issue resolved because we know
[24:19] that the president has said there
[24:21] shouldn't be any problem about
[24:22] reinstating the F-35 program? Well, as
[24:25] you said, I mean the political is will
[24:26] there. I mean uh the President Trump and
[24:29] President Erdogan when they came
[24:31] together last year uh in September in
[24:33] Washington DC even you know before this
[24:37] meeting they decided to remove all the
[24:40] obstacles about uh F35 project. So, ever
[24:47] since that we've been working on that
[24:49] and uh I think uh we will reach um
[24:53] solution um soon enough.
[24:55] So, um there will be no problem for
[24:58] Turkey to get
[25:02] uh F35 that we had paid for long before
[25:06] five six years ago. We had paid we paid
[25:08] for those uh for those F35s. They've
[25:12] been sitting in a hungar.
[25:14] Yeah. uh to be picked up by us.
[25:16] Yes.
[25:17] But the American Congress introduced an
[25:21] NDA act specifically describing Turkey
[25:24] uh you know uh prohibiting uh from doing
[25:28] that. So, but there's a a provision
[25:30] there and um I think u will
[25:32] you see that being resolved? Yeah.
[25:34] Um would we potentially see S400s going
[25:37] to the UAE for example?
[25:40] Well, as I said, this is an uh ongoing
[25:42] process and uh there has been
[25:45] discussions, talks uh within the
[25:47] government. So, there has to be a
[25:49] healthy discussion with the Russians as
[25:50] well because uh
[25:52] yeah, I cannot name any country or
[25:54] process or type of solution at this
[25:57] moment because as I said there is a
[25:59] political will between two president. So
[26:02] um Russia should be part of the uh uh
[26:05] discussions as well because uh this is
[26:08] where S400 is bought from.
[26:12] Yeah. Um I was just in Russia been
[26:15] traveling to Russia quite a bit since
[26:16] the war began. Um and you see a very
[26:19] different Russia today to be quite
[26:20] honest. Um the economics are difficult.
[26:23] Um the hits from Ukrainian drones are
[26:25] very real. Um and it's just difficult
[26:28] for people to live now. um particularly
[26:30] even communications um have become
[26:32] difficult in your mind. Do you see that
[26:34] the Russians are in a much more fragile
[26:36] position than they have been in the
[26:38] past?
[26:40] I was in Russia uh last month. Um you
[26:43] know I had uh meetings with my um
[26:45] counterparts and u and some intelligence
[26:49] and security officials and I was also
[26:51] received by uh President Putin. And um I
[26:56] do this every year. Um you know we have
[26:59] bilateral issues and we have regional uh
[27:02] issues that we need to uh synchronize
[27:04] some views uh to see where we stand on
[27:07] those issues especially south caucuses
[27:09] and middle east where those and the war
[27:12] on Ukraine. I think um you know um Mr.
[27:15] Putin has uh made it public uh couple
[27:19] times that uh and he also uh said uh
[27:24] during our meeting that he is committed
[27:26] to uh uh the Alaska meeting uh the so
[27:32] the the understanding that they reached
[27:34] in Alaska. Uh but uh again uh it
[27:39] requires two to tango. So um unilateral
[27:43] commitment to one understanding may not
[27:46] be that much successful unless you get
[27:48] the other party namely the Ukrainians to
[27:50] agree on the same very thing.
[27:52] So um
[27:54] you think we're closer to getting a deal
[27:56] there
[27:58] again? I mean, uh, [sighs]
[28:00] once we, uh, get over with the Iranian
[28:02] deal and war, I think we need to refocus
[28:06] on the, uh, the mediators from the
[28:08] American side. We need them to refocus.
[28:10] Yeah. Your excellency, thank you so much
[28:13] for joining us. Thank you very much. I
[28:14] appreciate it. Thank you for your time.
[28:16] Thank you.