# Ex-Satanist Reveals DARK Secrets Behind Occult Rituals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HTZ7I6kmK8

[00:00] Why did this man, Satan, leave the satanic church behind to follow Jesus?
[00:06] So many people believe this lie that they've sold their soul to the devil.
[00:10] And I mean, it's one of the biggest lies that Satan tells people because your soul belongs to God.
[00:15] You've said you spent 20 years working for the devil.
[00:17] What does that actually mean?
[00:20] For the most of that 20 years, I wasn't even aware that I was working for the devil.
[00:25] I thought I was actually helping people.
[00:26] This is the thing that I think a lot of people don't understand.
[00:30] Wow.
[00:30] Is Satanism just a misunderstood belief system or something far more dangerous?
[00:36] We are being observed by the enemy and by demons constantly.
[00:41] What we have to understand is when you are negotiating with demons, you have to bring a currency to do that.
[00:49] So blood has a currency in the spirit world.
[00:52] The blood of animals, the blood of humans.
[00:56] Obviously, the more pure the soul is, the higher the currency of that blood.
[01:01] Today, former satanic church leader Rion Swiggelar gives us a rare look inside his former world and how in the middle of an occult ritual, everything changed.
[01:10] I was down on the floor and I I lit the second candle and the next moment, this whole room filled up with light.
[01:17] I stood up and I turned around and there was this man standing there and he said to me, "I'm Yeshua of Nazareth."
[01:25] And um in that moment, there's going to be no choice for me but to follow Jesus.
[01:37] Rian Swiggelar, brother, welcome to Maybe God.
[01:41] Thank you. Such an honor to be here.
[01:43] Thank you for the invite.
[01:44] Well, thank you for making the time all the way from South Africa.
[01:48] been wanting to talk with you for some time.
[01:51] Um, your story is incredible.
[01:52] We're going to get into it.
[01:53] First, I just want to name the reality that um, we were discussing before we even started rolling, which is the the inherent risk involved in talking about the topics we're going to
[02:02] be talking about.
[02:03] For everybody watching and listening, we're going to get into some pretty deep and dark um, spiritual topics today.
[02:09] That's just part of your story.
[02:11] Whenever we've roached these topics in the past, um me and my team just consistently seem to find ourselves in the enemy's crosshairs in the time leading up to it and the time following it.
[02:20] And um we didn't really we thought it was coincidence at first cuz we were naive.
[02:24] And it's just it's beyond coincidence.
[02:26] And um we're before we started rolling you uh led us in a prayer for everybody involved and for everybody listening and watching uh our conversation because you know as well as we do the inherent implied risks involved in this uh sort of topic.
[02:42] So tell us why specifically why prayer is important when getting into something like we're getting into today.
[02:49] Absolutely.
[02:52] So I think people and especially Christians underestimate the power of prayer completely because firstly it's so available and people think people take it for granted.
[03:04] What we have to understand is that the spirit world isn't really something or a place that is far removed from where we are.
[03:15] The spirit world is actually around us and we are being observed by the enemy and by demons constantly um each and every person actually on this planet.
[03:29] And again that doesn't mean we have to be fearful.
[03:31] It's just to be vigilant and aware of these things and then to know our authority in Christ, but to to declare um God's reign, God's the fact that Jesus has actually conquered the enemy.
[03:46] And many times praying and especially out loud is taking our authority in Christ, the the authority that Jesus gave us each and every follower.
[04:00] And for the enemy to be reminded that we
[04:05] actually know what our authority is.
[04:08] Because we have to understand that the the the war and warfare and spiritual warfare is a reality.
[04:16] And that warfare gets intensified.
[04:20] And certainly if we look at the world and the current state of things um massively intensified especially over the last 5 years and it is very biblical um if people read their Bible they will understand why things are happening and going around and if we look at the times we are in so most certainly um we need to be aware of it but again it's not about being fearful it's taking old authority up it's putting our armor on.
[04:51] It is standing in our identity and our authority.
[04:56] It is procla proclaiming God's word because God's word is the final authority on
[05:05] earth over hell.
[05:09] Um, it is also, and this is something beautiful that the Holy Spirit revealed to me just over 6 months ago, is the word of God is also a contract that the enemy is also bounded to.
[05:23] So, they don't necessarily want us to know that, meaning Satan and demons don't necessarily want us to know that, but they are very aware that they are also bound by that contract.
[05:35] And the more we know about the word of God and the more we incorporate that in prayer when it comes to things like deliverance and spiritual warfare, the more effective we are because we're just standing on our authority once again and on our rights.
[05:53] And when we remind the enemy of what his destiny is and the fact that Jesus actually conquering on the cross, we are we are victorious in Jesus.
[06:02] Man, I love how you you put it.
[06:05] We're I mean prayer
[06:07] is many things and one thing it is is putting the enemy on notice.
[06:11] like you're you're you're making him aware that you're aware that uh you hold the authority of God when you uh have the Holy Spirit in your heart and you speak from that authority.
[06:21] You also speak from your experience and your um your past is fascinating.
[06:26] The way you came to Christ is fascinating.
[06:27] We'll get into the details about what you did before Christ, but just generally for people that don't know you, you've said you spent 20 years uh working for the devil.
[06:37] What does that mean?
[06:38] Just briefly, just the 30,000 foot view.
[06:40] What does that actually mean?
[06:43] Hey, maybe God family, Eric Huffman here.
[06:45] I hope you're as fascinated as I am by Rion's story.
[06:48] If conversations like this make you pause and rethink your assumptions and look beyond what you've experienced in this physical world, be sure to subscribe.
[06:56] so you can keep exploring these topics with us.
[06:57] We focus on real people, honest dialogue, and big faith questions that many people are afraid to ask.
[07:04] So, please subscribe to Maybe God and turn on that notification bell.
[07:06] We
[07:09] would love for you to stay a part of this conversation.
[07:10] Now, let's hear more of Rion's story.
[07:12] For 15 years before I got involved in Satanism, I was already working in the holistic industry full-time as a psychic medium, as a shaman.
[07:23] Um and eventually that led me deeper into the oult and eventually Satanism.
[07:28] So um that time was a total of 20 years.
[07:33] So for for the most of that 20 years, I wasn't even aware that I was working for the devil.
[07:39] I thought I was actually helping people and giving people answers and things of that.
[07:44] Yeah.
[07:45] Yeah. Interesting.
[07:45] That's a common theme you hear with people that we've had on the show and folks that I I've gotten to know.
[07:51] just it starts out seemingly innocuous like you're trying to do the right thing and helping people and then before you know it you're serving the devil uh which is amazing and fascinating to think about how that works but we'll get more into details later but it didn't start for you there it started for you actually as
[08:09] far as I can tell in the church weren't you raised Christian?
[08:13] absolutely so both my parents um and especially like my mother but also my father until he passed um last year were always very devout Christians.
[08:26] So I grew up in a in a Christian home.
[08:29] I went to Sunday school literally every Sunday.
[08:35] I did that until the end of high school and then I actually went over to a more apostolic church.
[08:39] Um you know cuz I I thought at the time already there's something missing that I don't actually I'm not experiencing God.
[08:48] So I think I started looking for God um in other churches.
[08:54] What kind of church were you raised in though?
[08:56] So I was raised in the Dutch Reformed Church.
[08:59] Got it.
[09:00] And I went over to an apostolic church like I said just after I finished school for about another two years.
[09:07] And I certainly knew scripture very well and I
[09:10] knew church very well.
[09:11] I didn't know God.
[09:14] I I thought I did.
[09:14] Um, but today looking back at that time, I certainly didn't know God and I didn't know Jesus.
[09:22] And like I said, I had this deception.
[09:24] I I must must know God because I know the Bible so well.
[09:28] You knew about God, I guess.
[09:30] Yes.
[09:31] But you didn't know him personally like a relationship, I suppose.
[09:35] No.
[09:35] Yeah.
[09:36] I'd say that's a fairly common status for a lot of church-going people.
[09:39] Would you agree?
[09:41] like to know about God without intimately knowing him.
[09:47] Absolutely.
[09:47] And and that's what religion does.
[09:49] Yeah.
[09:50] We sometimes look at things quite often as religion versus relationship.
[09:56] So I can definitely agree with with that.
[09:58] Yes.
[09:59] What uh age were you when you started sort of uh cooling on the church and and walking away maybe from from that religion?
[10:08] So I was 20 years old.
[10:08] Um, this was in
[10:12] 2001.
[10:14] When I left the Christian church and when I turned my back onto religion.
[10:20] Yes.
[10:20] Okay. What were the reasons?
[10:23] I've heard hints in your other interviews about some church hurt or some uh heartbreak there.
[10:27] Can you go into that at all?
[10:30] Sure. So, there was a lot of hypocrisy um that I noticed.
[10:34] Um, I witnessed a lot of fake and staged miracles.
[10:41] I noticed a lot of, you know, the the hunt for money more than actually doing work for the kingdom.
[10:48] Um, I had many close friends at that time who were um, of other races um, and they were very much, I would say, discrimin because of the color of their skin.
[11:01] So, it was all sorts of things like that.
[11:04] Yeah. And yeah, very I was very deeply hurt by that.
[11:08] And at the time I thought, well, if this is who God is and how God
[11:14] is being, you know, represented and I don't want anything I don't want any part of that.
[11:19] Yeah.
[11:21] I mean, it's hard to argue with that when you're a idealistic young man and you think, you know, this church, this religion, whatever, has all the answers and has the truth but isn't acting like it.
[11:33] you know, you're saying one thing and doing another and excluding some people because of how they look.
[11:37] Like people walk away from churches for very good reasons sometimes, you know, and we Christians should recognize that and not um sometimes we get in the habit of disparaging people that deconstruct and sometimes we're giving them the tools to deconstruct with, you know, and the reason to do it.
[11:51] [laughter] We have to always be sensitive.
[11:53] I say that as a church church leader, you know, I'm I'm uh it's heartbreaking but makes sense in retrospect.
[12:00] I would guess also because you have this um sort of creative spiritual mystical side of you that's so important to you um that at least in uh your early church experience at the Dutch Reform uh religion I would guess
[12:15] but but even just church generally.
[12:17] sometimes we don't encourage people to ask questions about spiritual things and pursue the kinds of deeper mystical beautiful mysterious wonderful things about our faith.
[12:27] Did you ever find that about Christianity like it was kind of a boring disconnect rather than an encouragement spiritually?
[12:36] Yes, absolutely.
[12:36] But um recently um especially in the last 3 years in my walk with God, God has sh revealed so many things to me and and I think it's important that we understand that God created everything.
[12:52] Even the what people some people might label as the supernatural, the enemy corrupts that though so badly.
[13:01] And I can speak from experience and also from people that I'm ministering to at the moment is that in in the holistic industry and in the if you want to call it the occult communities, there's people with absolute beautiful
[13:16] hearts.
[13:17] Yeah.
[13:17] But they've so been so corroted and deceived by the enemy.
[13:24] And the enemy doesn't want people with certain um if you want to call them gifts and abilities.
[13:31] Not that I want to call one person more special than the next.
[13:35] But if you look at certain people's callings, that can be very effective for the kingdom.
[13:39] The enemy doesn't want people like that to actually be in the kingdom.
[13:43] So the enemy will deceive and corrupt that as much as possible.
[13:49] And [clears throat] what we also have to understand is that the devil doesn't always come to us with obvious lies.
[13:56] That's not how deception works.
[13:58] Deception is something that we really really have to understand and and use discernment with.
[14:07] So unfortunately and especially in this country many churches will say anything that is too spiritual or too supernatural is not from God and it completely discourages people and
[14:19] many people then venture out and they start delving into things like the new age and and like the occult and like Satanism where that's not God's heart for us.
[14:30] That that is actually not what what God wants for his children.
[14:34] Yeah.
[14:34] Um, God actually wants a very, very close relationship with us.
[14:39] God wants a covenant with his children.
[14:42] God knows us so well as individuals better than than we'll ever know ourselves.
[14:49] But God also wants us to turn our hearts to him and onto him to have that relationship.
[14:55] Yeah.
[14:55] Yeah.
[14:55] I I I admit uh as a pastor sometimes the pressure to build um an institution that's dogmatic and controlled is great.
[15:04] So great in fact that um creativity and spirituality and mystery become a threat of sorts to that.
[15:14] And um there is a tendency in churches that are growthminded to um
[15:20] sideline and marginalized people that uh that have that thin membrane spiritually, you know, that have um openness to spiritual things or are highly creative.
[15:30] And I just think we have to be very careful about that because those those people are uh high impact for the kingdom once they are in in the family in the fold.
[15:42] and and we shouldn't be threatened by the the questions or mystery that they are um that they are um raising up in the in the church.
[15:49] And sometimes we just sideline them.
[15:50] I'm I'm saying that from my own experience and I repent of that.
[15:54] And um because it's such a high impact um thing for the church to welcome and embrace people and it can be a high impact thing for darkness when they go out and serve him instead.
[16:05] That kind of brings us to the next part of your journey.
[16:07] Um, [snorts] you got involved in the occult.
[16:09] Uh, I it sounds like it was inadvertent, well-intentioned.
[16:14] Tell us a little bit about how that happened initially.
[16:16] When did you first start dabbling in what we
[16:21] would call the occult?
[16:23] Sure.
[16:23] So about 3 years after I left the Christian church, I was already doing psychic readings for people and I was doing healing sessions and all sorts of things and eventually that led to me doing what what is known as spell work or rituals for clients.
[16:44] Um so um you get so many different forms and and and you know aspects of that but um it basically started with me during these readings which were really getting information from familiar spirits although I thought at the time I'm seeing people to ancestors so accurately.
[17:08] Um not realizing that that these were demons um imitating but.
[17:14] At that point you thought it was God or.
[17:17] No, I actually thought um and I was deceived into thinking um these are you.
[17:23] know like angels and spirit um spirit guides and people's loved ones who have crossed over.
[17:28] Um but you know God actually only revealed to me about 3 years ago what that actually was.
[17:37] But so I had this illegal connection to the spirit world for for like I say 20 years of my life.
[17:43] Um so what I mean by that is when when we enter the spirit world without God's permission or without not in in accordance with God's will we we are entering into the spirit world illegally and there's so many various ways in which people do that
[18:02] but because of that is how I got involved into into doing witchcraft for people you know to solve their problems or whatever they really paid me to do at
[18:12] Why?
[18:17] So if you if you start delving into the oult, um a lot of people don't know this, but the the word oult is originally a Latin
[18:24] word which means hidden knowledge or um hidden wisdom.
[18:31] So you can read as many books as you want of the occult or or read things on the internet.
[18:34] It still doesn't give you the information.
[18:36] it it might tell you how to do certain rituals but the moment you start doing those things that's when you get the information and it's complete demonic doctrine.
[18:49] Yeah.
[18:50] And so that was my life.
[18:53] I mean literally from when I woke up in the morning till when I went to bed um that was my life almost 15 years.
[18:57] It was my career and that is just before I even got involved in Satanism.
[19:04] That's what I Yeah.
[19:07] But the transmissions, the information you were getting was uh somewhat true at least I guess because it was effective in
[19:14] of course.
[19:17] Yeah.
[19:17] Yeah.
[19:17] So I I think for clarification and it's maybe something we can talk about a minute.
[19:21] Um so when when we are born we
[19:29] automatically if you want to say automatically but there is a familiar spirit that is assigned to us.
[19:34] So that familiar spirit observes us the whole time and hears what we say with our mouth and sees our actions etc.
[19:46] So now let's say somewhere in your life you end up going to a psychic medium and why that information is so accurate is they will tell the medium that when she or he doesn't matter was 5 years old they he walked with his grandmother on the beach and they had ice cream that day.
[20:09] So that's where you start and that information certainly is accurate and the person sitting in front of you will agree to that.
[20:18] But then it becomes more dangerous when when you start actually speaking into that person's life and you start speaking about the future and you make you you you literally um speak into
[20:31] their life accordance to what these
[20:33] demons are telling you. and you as the
[20:37] as the medium or the person with with
[20:39] the heart to help people, you are
[20:41] deceived as well. So you really think
[20:44] you're helping people, but
[20:47] this is how deception works. And I've
[20:51] seen so many beautiful testimonies of
[20:53] people who is coming out of the oult and
[20:56] out of the holistic industry. And we're
[20:58] going to see a lot more of that in the
[21:00] times we are now because God is raising
[21:03] [snorts]
[21:03] >> the most unlikely people for his
[21:05] kingdom. And I think Christians should
[21:07] realize that God has his sons and
[21:11] daughters, but he also has his future
[21:13] sons and daughters.
[21:15] >> And we are being called and raised up
[21:18] for a time such as this that we are in
[21:20] at the moment. M. So at what point,
[21:23] Rion, did you go from sort of this uh
[21:27] vague occult practice to being outwardly
[21:31] satanic and a Satanist, let's say?
[21:36] >> Sure. So in 2016,
[21:39] um through one of my clients that um I
[21:42] was seeing at my practice um as a
[21:45] psychic medium. So this client came to
[21:48] me one day and he you know his wife and
[21:52] his girlfriend has been to me by then
[21:55] and he heard about how accurate the
[21:57] readings is etc. So he came to me for a
[22:00] session and at the end of that session
[22:01] he asked me have you ever read the
[22:03] satanic Bible?
[22:05] So I said no. And I I think important to
[22:09] mention here as well if if you would
[22:11] have asked me in 2001 or two when after
[22:15] I just left the church whether I would
[22:17] be interested to read this Bible, I
[22:19] would have said absolutely not.
[22:20] >> Yeah.
[22:21] >> But you see as as time goes on and as
[22:24] you are led down a path and deeper and
[22:26] deeper into bondage. Um you start
[22:28] believing things like there is no light
[22:30] and dark. There's no good and evil. It's
[22:32] all one thing and it's the universe. all
[22:34] those things. So by 2016 when when he
[22:38] asked me I I said no but I would be
[22:41] interested especially if this is going
[22:43] to take me to another level um in the
[22:46] oult and and certain ritual practices
[22:48] etc. Yeah.
[22:49] >> So he dropped off the Satanic Bible soon
[22:52] after that and about 3 months later
[22:56] um he came to see me again and then he
[22:58] asked me so why did you think about the
[23:01] Satanic Bible and I said to him well I
[23:05] am definitely a Satanist and I I didn't
[23:07] even realize it because you see the the
[23:10] Satanic Bible is written in such a way
[23:12] that any person who feels that they are
[23:17] a outcast or they don't belong in the
[23:19] status quo. There's a very much a reason
[23:22] for it and you are actually a Satanist
[23:24] and you're supposed to be and you're
[23:26] supposed to embrace those parts of
[23:28] yourself and that will guarantee certain
[23:31] success in the world etc. So that is how
[23:33] it's written.
[23:34] >> Okay. And so after I said that to him,
[23:38] he he then invited me to a social event
[23:41] u for Satanists
[23:43] and I went to that and and that's when I
[23:46] actually met other Satanist the first
[23:48] time. So this was towards the end of
[23:50] 2016.
[23:51] >> Okay.
[23:52] >> And I still remember till this day that
[23:57] I had this idea perception in my mind
[24:01] that Satanists, you know, all look a
[24:04] certain way. They dress it black and
[24:06] they have tattoos and things like that.
[24:08] And to my surprise, the day I walked
[24:11] into the evening actually that I walked
[24:13] into that event, I saw people that as a
[24:19] child, you know, watching television,
[24:21] these people were on television. These
[24:23] people were very successful
[24:26] um frontiers in in various forms of
[24:29] industry and business. These were people
[24:31] in parliament. These were people who
[24:34] were well-known sports um stars in this
[24:36] country etc. So it was quite a shock to
[24:39] me then to see who Satanist actually
[24:41] were.
[24:42] >> You saw celebrities and well-known
[24:44] figures at this gathering you went to.
[24:48] >> Yes.
[24:48] >> Wow.
[24:49] >> So that was really a pull for me. Um cuz
[24:54] I thought at the time if these are going
[24:56] to be my new friends, I'm definitely
[24:58] going to this is something I'm going to
[24:59] do.
[25:00] >> Yeah. And it was only almost 9 months
[25:04] after that when when I was initiated
[25:07] into Satanism.
[25:09] Now
[25:10] something I want to say and I think it's
[25:13] important for people to know this is
[25:14] that nobody knows and I've met thousands
[25:19] of Satanists in my life and I'm still
[25:21] meeting a lot of people who want to get
[25:23] out of the occult and Satanism in this
[25:25] ministry. We work with a lot of people
[25:27] like that. No person who ever got
[25:30] involved in Satanism knew what they
[25:33] actually getting involved in until they
[25:35] got initiated. Because
[25:38] if you read the Satanic Bible, it's
[25:40] going to tell you something and it's
[25:41] going to tell you about the dogma and
[25:44] the beliefs and stuff.
[25:45] >> It doesn't actually
[25:46] >> Oh, the dogma you said.
[25:48] >> Yeah.
[25:48] >> Yeah. Of Satanism. So, it doesn't
[25:50] actually tell you what you're going to
[25:52] have to do after you get initiated.
[25:56] And that is when things really start
[25:59] becoming very real after initiation.
[26:02] And so many people
[26:06] that is involved in that world actually
[26:09] believe that they can never get out
[26:11] because they they have this they believe
[26:13] this lie that they've sold their soul to
[26:15] the devil. And I mean it's one of the
[26:18] biggest lies that Satan tells people
[26:20] because you cannot sell your soul to
[26:22] begin with. Your soul belongs to God.
[26:24] Whether you're a Christian or not a
[26:25] Christian, whether you doesn't matter.
[26:27] Your soul belongs to God who created us
[26:30] all.
[26:31] >> That's such a common trope though, the
[26:33] idea that you can sell your soul to the
[26:35] devil.
[26:36] >> Correct. And the devil has used that lie
[26:40] to keep people in bondage for so long.
[26:44] >> And many people involved in the occult
[26:46] of Satanism don't even know that Jesus
[26:48] is an option for them.
[26:50] >> So, yeah. Wow, that's a mouthful.
[26:54] >> So, the the initiation ritual, what can
[26:57] you talk about what it was like? I don't
[26:58] know what the rules are, what you're
[27:00] able to say or whatever, but can you
[27:02] tell us what was involved in the
[27:04] initiation?
[27:05] >> Sure, I I can I can talk about it. I
[27:08] just don't want to teach people how to
[27:09] become better Satanists that
[27:11] >> Yeah, I appreciate that.
[27:13] >> Yes. Um, so I'm I'm very careful about
[27:16] Okay. But so the basics of it is that um
[27:21] you are initiated in front of other
[27:24] people. So you can decide whether you
[27:28] want to be initiated into a coven or a
[27:30] grotto which are two completely
[27:32] different things but they they each
[27:34] function um in satanism in terms of the
[27:37] network. Um there is um the cutting of
[27:41] yourself to um draw your own blood to
[27:44] sign a type of a contract in front of
[27:47] witnesses. There's the sharing of blood
[27:50] where you pass a chalice or a cup around
[27:53] that everybody put some of their blood
[27:56] in and you drink each other's blood in
[27:58] that initiation. So
[28:00] >> there's [snorts] a lot of soul ties
[28:02] >> and soul contracts that's that's fought
[28:06] if if you understand what I'm saying
[28:07] with with that. And then I think the the
[28:10] part that's also important to mention
[28:12] that you don't know before the time is a
[28:15] demon a control demon. It's that's the
[28:18] term used for it is assigned to you
[28:20] personally
[28:21] >> by name or just generally?
[28:25] >> No, by name.
[28:28] The demon has a name.
[28:30] >> No. No. By your name. Your name. Got it.
[28:33] >> Yes. Yes.
[28:35] >> Did you know all this going in to your
[28:37] ritual?
[28:37] >> No. No. No. So that's why I say many
[28:41] people don't know this. And this is the
[28:45] thing that I think a lot of people don't
[28:46] understand and especially when I talk at
[28:49] churches that one of the questions that
[28:52] that is often asked is that why is there
[28:54] blood sacrifices in the occult and
[28:57] satisiating
[29:03] with demons you have to bring a currency
[29:07] to do that. So blood has a currency in
[29:10] the spirit world. um the blood of
[29:13] animals, the blood of um humans
[29:16] obviously um the more pure the soul is,
[29:19] the higher the currency of that blood.
[29:21] So if you want to appease these demons
[29:24] and if you want to negotiate with them
[29:26] to have certain outcomes in the physical
[29:28] world, you have to bring a sacrifice.
[29:32] >> The blood the blood of Jesus is the
[29:34] highest currency in the spirit world.
[29:37] >> Okay? And the moment that you've been
[29:41] through that, the moment that you've
[29:42] you've been in the occult and you've
[29:44] been in Satanism and you've practiced
[29:46] rituals and you see obviously real
[29:50] things become very real and things
[29:52] happen and you can create a lot of
[29:54] things and some people are obviously
[29:57] very impressed with this and then you
[29:59] get to meet Jesus
[30:01] and then you get to know Jesus. So, not
[30:05] just the name of Jesus, but the blood of
[30:07] Jesus. It is the most powerful. It is
[30:10] the most, like I said, the highest
[30:13] currency in the spirit world.
[30:14] >> I see what you mean.
[30:15] >> And nothing compares to it. And I think
[30:18] for for us for for people who who've
[30:21] been in that um circles and and and has
[30:24] been in in that type of practices
[30:27] if if you know what what you can do and
[30:30] what is possible and then you get to
[30:32] meet Jesus one day and have the
[30:36] authority that Christ gives us after we
[30:38] give our hearts to him.
[30:41] It doesn't compare even
[30:43] >> so
[30:44] >> the occult and Satanism and witchcraft
[30:47] and it does not even compare and
[30:52] something that that I often tell
[30:54] survivors that that people who we help
[30:56] to get out of the cult of Satanism
[30:59] and and I've seen this even in
[31:01] Colossians 1 verse it's about verse 26
[31:04] 27 about the the glory of Christ that
[31:07] actually lives in us
[31:09] >> when we when we surren surrender our
[31:11] lives to God. So what the Holy Spirit
[31:14] revealed to me, even if you are a
[31:17] believer or a follower of Christ for a
[31:20] day, even if you come to Christ now, you
[31:23] have more authority in the spirit world
[31:26] than a witch, a warlock, a satanic
[31:28] priest that's been doing that for 30
[31:30] years. Wow.
[31:30] >> You have more authority because of who
[31:32] we are in Christ.
[31:34] >> Yeah. And whose blood you're under?
[31:36] >> Exactly. Because of that blood. Amen.
[31:39] That is that is such an eye openener and
[31:42] it makes me think about the the
[31:44] Christian practice of communion or
[31:46] Eucharist and what it must mean to
[31:48] someone like you, someone who's been
[31:49] through these other rituals. You know,
[31:51] somebody white bread like me, you know,
[31:53] never really been a Satanist. Uh, you
[31:55] know, at least not overtly, although I
[31:57] acted like it for a while. I never
[31:59] ingested someone else's blood, never
[32:00] shed my own for a negotiation with the
[32:03] demons, you know. Um, and then I just
[32:05] take the blood of Christ sort of
[32:06] half-hazardly like it's of course I
[32:09] >> [laughter]
[32:10] >> But in your case, it's got to take on so
[32:12] much more meaning.
[32:13] >> Well, like I said, nothing. And I've
[32:17] I've seen and I've witnessed so many
[32:20] miracles in the last 3 years in this
[32:22] ministry, all because of the name of
[32:25] Jesus, the blood of Jesus, the authority
[32:27] that we have
[32:29] >> because we are Christ. And like I said,
[32:32] there is no comparison.
[32:34] >> Yeah. It it doesn't. And so many people
[32:37] think of the devil and Jesus like they
[32:39] fighting on the same level. I'm like,
[32:41] "No. Do you know who Jesus is? Do you do
[32:45] you know what Jesus has done?" And I
[32:49] mean, Archangel Michael and Satan is
[32:52] maybe on the same level. Jesus is way
[32:55] above that. Jesus already conquered the
[32:57] enemy on the cross. Yeah. I mean, hello.
[33:00] >> Yeah. And so many people still think of
[33:02] this as you know um the God and the
[33:06] devil is is fighting on the No, God has
[33:10] won. Yeah.
[33:10] >> And spoiler alert.
[33:12] >> Um there's certain things that's playing
[33:14] out in the world in terms of where the
[33:17] enemy is very active and and we we have
[33:20] to be vigilant of these things and we
[33:22] have to fight and that's why we we we
[33:24] equip people with spiritual warfare. But
[33:27] at the very foundation, at at the end of
[33:29] the day, um God already won. Jesus has
[33:32] conquered the enemy on the cross.
[33:34] >> That's right. We often think that Jesus
[33:36] conquered just our sins on the cross,
[33:38] and he did do that. But uh you know, the
[33:40] main thing John says the main thing
[33:42] Jesus came to do was to destroy the
[33:44] devil and his works in the world. And
[33:47] that has been that has been finished
[33:48] too, just like our sin has been finished
[33:50] and all of that. But I want to um before
[33:53] we move on to your u to what happened
[33:55] after your time as a Satanist, I just
[33:57] want to um sort of flesh out so to speak
[34:00] this uh this idea of blood and your
[34:02] experience in this world beyond the
[34:05] initiation ritual. There were other
[34:07] rituals involving blood is that
[34:10] >> absolutely
[34:10] >> okay. Yes. And
[34:12] >> you're so y
[34:14] >> Well, there's a hierarchy of blood or
[34:16] different kinds of blood. I guess you
[34:17] mentioned Jesus's blood being the most
[34:20] valuable currency in the demonic realm.
[34:22] But is uh is there a hierarchy beyond
[34:24] that? Is is uh animal sacrifices, you
[34:28] know, they're worth something, but but
[34:30] there's human blood that may be worth
[34:32] more. Is there I'm imagining this being
[34:34] kind of a hierarchy. Is that accurate?
[34:37] >> Correct. Correct. So if you if you look
[34:40] at a baby um if you look at a a child
[34:43] that's innocent um that's obviously in
[34:46] terms of human form if you bring a type
[34:49] of sacrifice like that that would be
[34:51] considered the most precious blood that
[34:53] you can negotiate with the with the
[34:55] demonic
[34:56] >> because it's innocent.
[34:58] >> Correct.
[34:59] >> Interesting. So all that stuff is real
[35:02] like you know you have a lot of western
[35:03] thoughts that that are like well that's
[35:05] satanic panic stuff is just uh you know
[35:07] mythological kind of made up. You saw
[35:10] this stuff.
[35:12] >> So yes I I never and I thank God for
[35:16] that because I was never on the level of
[35:18] being a high priest in Satanism because
[35:20] that really takes years to get there.
[35:23] But I've never did human sacrifice
[35:26] personally.
[35:27] >> Yeah. Um but I have witnessed it in my
[35:30] time. I heard a lot about what other
[35:32] people were doing because we have to
[35:34] also understand that even in Satanism
[35:36] there's a hierarchy. So um as years go
[35:39] by you you can climb that hierarchy. And
[35:43] if you are thinking um of becoming a
[35:47] priest or a high priest of a covenant,
[35:48] you have to do those type of sacrifices.
[35:51] Yeah.
[35:51] >> In front of people who have done that as
[35:53] well as witnesses. So I and I like I
[35:57] said, I thank God for that. Um I never
[35:59] got to that level in Satanism. I I I did
[36:02] animal sacrifices most certainly. Um I
[36:06] practice SA. I don't know if I can say
[36:09] those words cuz they might cancel your
[36:12] episode.
[36:12] >> Uh we'll bleep them out if you need to
[36:14] say them. It's fine.
[36:15] >> No. So satanic ritual
[36:18] where where you torture people. Um so
[36:21] glad I did. I I was a perpetrator um in
[36:24] that
[36:25] >> where um people willfully take part in
[36:28] that but also where people get punished
[36:31] um they they are subjected to um satanic
[36:34] ritual. So um I did that but I never
[36:38] sacrificed um a human. And on that topic
[36:42] and and this is again what God revealed
[36:44] to me. Um in in our current ministry
[36:48] when we are assisting people to get out
[36:51] of Satanism, right?
[36:53] >> Yeah. So the people who were baptized or
[36:57] dedicated as babies
[37:00] in a church only get to a certain level
[37:04] in Satanism and they can't go higher.
[37:08] And they also get out easier.
[37:11] And when I spoke to God about it, it is
[37:14] because as I said earlier, the the
[37:16] physical world is observed
[37:18] by the spiritual the whole time. So if
[37:23] it is observed that people are
[37:26] dedicating a child, a baby to the throne
[37:29] of God, that child has a certain level
[37:34] or seal over their life because they've
[37:36] been dedicated to the kingdom.
[37:38] >> Wow.
[37:38] >> So whatever choices that child still
[37:41] makes, even if they get involved, they
[37:44] will only get to a certain level. And
[37:46] I've seen this with so many people that
[37:49] we are assisting to get out. So um it is
[37:53] completely different situation with
[37:55] generational Satanists, meaning people
[37:57] who were born into Satanism as children,
[37:59] >> right? But certainly people who chose to
[38:02] get involved in Satanism in their adult
[38:05] life, um the ones who were actually
[38:08] raised in Christian homes and the ones
[38:10] who had have praying parents, they only
[38:13] get to a certain level and like they
[38:14] can't go higher than that.
[38:16] >> Wow.
[38:17] >> So that definitely tells you something.
[38:19] >> Oh, it really does. And at my church, we
[38:22] baptize uh children, we baptize babies,
[38:24] and you know, some Christians disagree
[38:26] with that. And this isn't really an
[38:28] episode about that, but I never thought
[38:29] about that being another reason to
[38:32] baptize the little ones or at least
[38:33] dedicate them, you know.
[38:35] >> So, if I can share this, my my parents
[38:38] when they found out I was involved in
[38:41] Satanism, my my parents didn't go into a
[38:43] panic. They stood on those promises that
[38:46] they made when they dedicated me as a
[38:49] baby. And my mother said to the devil,
[38:51] "Sorry, you're not going to have my son
[38:52] because I already dedicated him to the
[38:55] kingdom. I'm just going to pray back
[38:56] into it.
[38:57] >> Oh my gosh, that is amazing. How did
[39:00] your mom and dad even find out about it
[39:02] for was it a sit down conversation?
[39:04] >> Newspaper in a newspaper.
[39:07] >> Oh, [laughter]
[39:08] you made a headline?
[39:09] >> That was
[39:11] Yes.
[39:12] >> Oh, and and the next conversation, what
[39:15] was that like with mom?
[39:17] So I remember at the time and you see I
[39:21] was already so possessed at that time
[39:23] but what I do remember about that is my
[39:26] parents and myself at that time we we
[39:28] already didn't have a good relationship
[39:30] and that was because of me
[39:32] >> but um so at that time we were speaking
[39:35] about once a month maybe on the phone
[39:37] and then the newspaper was literally
[39:40] delivered to their front door one Sunday
[39:42] and they they saw me on the cover and
[39:46] there's their son being the head and the
[39:48] leader of the sort of African satanic
[39:49] church. So my mother made her
[39:52] appointment to come and see me and I
[39:55] even invited her to the satanic church
[39:57] to come to the church office and both my
[40:00] father and her they came that day and my
[40:04] mother said to me that she only wants to
[40:06] ask me one question
[40:08] and I said okay and she she asked me
[40:11] this whole thing if this is real or am I
[40:16] involved in some publicity stunt or
[40:18] whatever. And I remember asking her,
[40:20] "What difference does it make?" And she
[40:22] said to me, "Cuz we want to know how to
[40:24] pray for you."
[40:26] >> And for 4 years, we didn't speak because
[40:30] I chose that it it wasn't them. And in
[40:33] that four years, like I said, she was
[40:36] the both of them, they they stood on the
[40:37] authority. They prayed. My mother wrote
[40:40] my name in her Bible and so many
[40:42] different scriptures that the the Lord
[40:44] gave her in that time. Mhm.
[40:46] >> So after I came to Christ, it was one of
[40:49] the first relationships that was
[40:51] repaired
[40:53] and so now we speak every day obviously.
[40:56] Um and yeah, my mother is a especially
[40:59] my mother, she's a very on fire
[41:02] Christian.
[41:03] >> Yeah, man. It's powerful to think about
[41:05] what her prayers might have kept you
[41:07] from or or led you to, you know, as the
[41:10] man you are today. But you you at at
[41:12] this point in your life uh you became
[41:16] the leader of the South African satanic
[41:19] church. Is that accurate? Did I say that
[41:22] right?
[41:23] >> Yes.
[41:23] >> Yes, you did. So the title that
[41:25] happened.
[41:27] >> So it was co-founder and leader. So um
[41:30] how that came about. So in 2018
[41:36] um I found myself in an office with six
[41:38] other people
[41:40] and we very much spoke about a lot of
[41:44] things about Satanism that was coming
[41:46] out in the media where Satanism was
[41:48] linked to certain crimes etc. So two of
[41:52] the people um that were also co-founders
[41:55] they said that their concern is is that
[41:57] some people in their um corporation and
[42:00] family is already suspecting that they
[42:03] are Satanists and they can't have this
[42:05] publicity. So why not
[42:09] register organization that speaks on
[42:11] behalf of Satanism?
[42:12] >> Mhm.
[42:13] >> So that was the one thing. The other
[42:15] thing was that we realized that around
[42:19] around South Africa around the country
[42:22] there were so many Satanists scattered
[42:25] in smaller towns and they didn't know
[42:27] how to connect to other Satanists
[42:29] because they didn't also want to be
[42:31] exposed. So
[42:32] >> we thought it a good idea that there's
[42:34] one organization where people can
[42:36] connect to and then we connect them to
[42:37] other people so that they can meet
[42:39] Satanist in their area for the practice
[42:42] of grotto rituals.
[42:44] satanic high days which which is
[42:46] something that happens twice a year. But
[42:49] so that was the idea and the reason why
[42:51] I was nominated was my background
[42:54] firstly in Christianity and and
[42:57] everybody knew I knew the Christian
[42:58] Bible so well as well as my experience
[43:02] in the occult. M
[43:04] >> um yeah, so there were certainly people
[43:07] um from the beginning that was way more
[43:10] involved in Satanism and for longer than
[43:12] me, but because I didn't have anything
[43:15] to lose at the time, they they thought
[43:18] it good for me to be the spokesperson
[43:20] and the leader.
[43:22] >> Um so we we put it through the
[43:26] Department of Social Development firstly
[43:28] to be registered as a religious
[43:29] organization. that went through very
[43:32] easy. Uh a building was obtained. Um we
[43:37] got church offices. So it was in full
[43:39] swing. Um and this was just before CO
[43:42] actually hit.
[43:43] >> Yeah. So then when when it was
[43:47] publicized
[43:48] um and it spread quite fast because
[43:50] there was also a lot of media contacts
[43:53] um that were involved in Satanism and
[43:55] certainly till today they are still
[43:57] involved
[43:58] >> um you know like journalists and people
[43:59] so they could get the marketing going
[44:02] quite easily
[44:04] >> um and it went international quite fast.
[44:07] So um yeah, my my name and my face was
[44:10] literally everywhere. And what I didn't
[44:13] realize at that time is that so many
[44:15] Christians were praying for my salvation
[44:18] already.
[44:19] >> Um
[44:20] >> even people that didn't know you
[44:21] personally, they just saw your name and
[44:22] lifted you up.
[44:23] >> Of course. Yeah.
[44:24] >> Of course. And God revealed to this to
[44:27] me only after I actually met Christ cuz
[44:30] there was a 6 month period where I
[44:32] didn't understand why me and why did God
[44:35] manifest in the way he did and and met
[44:38] me in the way he did and God showed me
[44:41] the prayers of the righteous. Thousands
[44:43] of people around the world were praying
[44:45] for me by my name.
[44:46] >> Wow. And
[44:49] then oh so because co hit a lot of the
[44:54] membership um move online so people
[44:57] could join online and rituals were were
[44:59] broadcasted
[45:01] and in the first year
[45:04] um of the the satanic church being being
[45:07] registered we got it to 12,000 people.
[45:10] >> Goodness.
[45:12] Yeah.
[45:12] >> A mega church.
[45:15] You were the leader of a mega church
[45:18] >> and you were seeing real uh you know bad
[45:21] fruit but fruit nonetheless. You were
[45:22] you were being productive. You were I
[45:25] assume accessing real spiritual power. I
[45:28] mean that's what the blood rituals are
[45:30] about in that world. Right. In
[45:32] Christianity we think about blood being
[45:33] a covering for like forgiveness of sins.
[45:36] In in that world it was about receiving
[45:39] power, spiritual power. Yes. And you
[45:41] were seeing
[45:42] >> and and mon monetary rewards and
[45:45] getting, you know, because one of the
[45:48] one of the statements um in Satanism is
[45:51] about indulgence and having everything
[45:53] that your want your fleshly desires
[45:56] needs,
[45:57] >> right?
[45:57] >> Um to celebrate that and to achieve that
[45:59] at any cost. Um, so I mean besides a
[46:05] very hefty salary that I was earning, I
[46:08] also like accumulated a lot of things.
[46:12] >> Yeah.
[46:12] >> Um, and I can honestly say today that at
[46:17] the time that I met Jesus, I wasn't
[46:20] looking for Christ. I actually thought I
[46:22] was a happy person. I thought that
[46:25] >> Yeah. I thought because I have all the
[46:27] the these things I had at that time um
[46:30] that I'm supposed to be happy because I
[46:32] had properties, I had two
[46:34] Harley-Davidsons, I had vehicles, I had
[46:37] all the drugs in the world. Um I mean I
[46:40] thought I was happy. So I wasn't looking
[46:43] for anything or thought I was unhappy.
[46:46] That that wasn't the experience at that
[46:48] time. It's interesting because you hear
[46:50] a lot of testimonies and that usually
[46:51] that's the that's the, you know, the
[46:53] trope is that somebody's just rock
[46:56] bottom. They they are at the end of
[46:58] themselves and they need something
[47:00] different. And you were just fine. It
[47:02] sounds or you thought you were just
[47:03] fine. Let's say you you Yeah. You felt
[47:05] >> I mean Yeah. I I didn't realize there
[47:08] was a Christsized hole in my heart like
[47:10] at all. I actually met Jesus.
[47:13] >> So, how did he pull you out of that?
[47:14] Let's let's move into that cuz that's a
[47:16] much more hopeful part of your story.
[47:18] How did Jesus rescue you from something
[47:20] you thought you didn't need rescuing
[47:21] from?
[47:23] >> Correct. So I think important to mention
[47:27] um about two weeks before I met Christ,
[47:31] I was doing a a interview at a radio
[47:35] station
[47:37] and
[47:39] this was a live interview and I remember
[47:42] during this interview um and I was doing
[47:44] it on behalf of the satanic church and I
[47:46] did a lot of interviews obviously but I
[47:50] remember there was someone who called in
[47:52] during the show and This person asked
[47:54] me, "Do you believe in Jesus
[47:57] or that Jesus ever existed?" And I
[47:59] remember this and I I mean I actually I
[48:01] was sent a copy of this interview the
[48:03] other day.
[48:04] >> And I said, "No, um Jesus is like this
[48:07] like the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus.
[48:09] It's, you know, something that people
[48:11] believe in because they were told."
[48:12] >> Yeah. And after this interview, there
[48:15] was a woman at the radio station who
[48:18] came to me and out of nowhere walked
[48:21] into the studio and she put her arms
[48:23] around me um and hugged me. And I
[48:27] remember this being one of the most
[48:29] amazing embraces that I experienced.
[48:32] >> And at that time of my life, I didn't
[48:34] allow people to come close to me at all.
[48:36] So she literally snuck in. And I
[48:39] remember the the warm of that hug. So
[48:43] this was the lady who organized um the
[48:46] interview and I only communicated with
[48:48] her on email
[48:50] and about 3 days later she contacted me
[48:55] through WhatsApp messenger and then I
[48:58] saw on her WhatsApp status this woman is
[49:00] a Christian.
[49:01] >> Oh.
[49:03] >> And do you know how that hit me? [sighs]
[49:06] And because here's the thing, despite
[49:10] what I said about Jesus in this
[49:12] interview, and she still did that, the
[49:14] other thing is I never experience that
[49:17] type of love from a Christian ever.
[49:21] But it left an impression with me, you
[49:23] see. So forward about 13 days after that
[49:29] um I was supposed to do a specific
[49:33] ritual for the satanic church and around
[49:38] the world um every satanic organization
[49:41] also appointed somebody in their
[49:42] organization to do the same ritual um to
[49:46] look at something specifically.
[49:49] So I I booked out a part of the satanic
[49:54] church um a very dark space where
[49:57] smaller ritual roles were being
[49:59] performed
[50:01] and this space was there was no
[50:03] artificial light there. So you always
[50:05] had to light it up with candles or some
[50:08] torches or whatever.
[50:09] >> Right?
[50:10] >> So I booked that out. It was the evening
[50:12] of the 24th of May 2022
[50:16] and I was by myself in this room and I
[50:19] was busy preparing for this ritual. And
[50:22] cuz in Satanism there is so much
[50:24] preparation
[50:25] >> for rituals. It's not as simple as you
[50:27] light a candle and there you are. It's
[50:29] there's literally so much you have to
[50:30] put out and lay out. And
[50:34] there there's five candles that you have
[50:36] to to to light on the floor. That's
[50:39] usually at the point of a of a fivepoint
[50:41] star. And
[50:43] >> I was down on the floor and I I lit the
[50:46] second candle
[50:48] and the next moment this whole room
[50:50] filled up with light.
[50:53] [clears throat]
[50:55] >> And I got up from the floor. I stood up
[50:57] and I turned around and there was this
[50:59] man standing there.
[51:02] And my initial thoughts were this is
[51:06] some type of homeless man that came in
[51:08] off the street. So I was very
[51:11] confrontational. I said who are you and
[51:14] what are you doing here?
[51:18] And he said to me, I'm Yeshua of
[51:20] Nazareth.
[51:23] [snorts]
[51:23] And
[51:26] I said, I'm sorry. I don't believe you
[51:29] and I don't believe in you. you're going
[51:31] to have to prove it.
[51:34] And the next moment,
[51:37] he flooded me with so much love.
[51:43] And I recognized it, you see, from that
[51:47] woman at the radio station because she
[51:50] had Jesus inside of her.
[51:54] And here's the thing. When that happens,
[52:00] you come up against all your sin. Number
[52:02] one, so I didn't even know I had sin at
[52:05] that time cuz I didn't believe in the
[52:07] concept,
[52:08] >> right? But I came up against all that
[52:10] sin and at the same time experienced
[52:12] that unconditional love
[52:17] and um
[52:20] suddenly
[52:22] in that moment and this wasn't even for
[52:24] 2 minutes this whole experience but I
[52:27] fell to my knees and it says in the word
[52:30] every knee shall bow
[52:33] and I knew that this is what I've been
[52:38] looking for all along my whole life.
[52:42] And I also knew in that moment there's
[52:44] going to be no choice for me but to
[52:46] follow Jesus. This is Jesus.
[52:50] >> And obviously Rachel never happened. So
[52:56] I I remember I walked out to my car. I
[52:58] thought I was going insane
[53:01] and like the sound of the world was
[53:03] gone. Like I couldn't hear. And I I
[53:07] remember driving home like I was playing
[53:10] with the radio at I couldn't hear
[53:12] anything. And when I got home I was
[53:14] exhausted. I I stayed in bed for 4 days
[53:18] and my phone was ringing because the the
[53:21] satanic church wanted to know what
[53:22] happened at the ritual.
[53:24] And
[53:26] one morning around 3:00 a.m. I I woke
[53:29] up. There was a voice and it said to me,
[53:31] "Go to the beach."
[53:34] And I thought, well, I'm already going
[53:36] insane, so I can just take the scenic
[53:38] route anyway.
[53:40] And um when I got to the beach, I I
[53:43] started having um real conversations
[53:46] with God for the first time.
[53:52] And I didn't still know that that time
[53:56] what is going to happen. and and
[53:57] especially the first year after that,
[54:00] how intense that was going to be and
[54:03] going through deliverance and resigning
[54:05] from the satanic church and
[54:07] >> having to face all sorts of legal things
[54:10] >> um until they got to be deregistered the
[54:14] organization. So for that first year, it
[54:17] was really intense, but
[54:20] >> I got to get to know God so much.
[54:25] And I'm still getting to know God every
[54:27] day more and more and more.
[54:29] >> I mean, for the last 3 and 1/2 years,
[54:33] with the exception of 12 days, I speak
[54:36] to God 4 hours in the morning. That's
[54:39] that's every day for me. And I I read
[54:42] the word. I write down what I don't
[54:45] understand about the scripture I get. I
[54:47] have conversations with God. I let the
[54:49] Holy Spirit show me things. I worship.
[54:52] Um so it is really about getting to know
[54:55] God's voice and getting
[54:57] >> that relationship.
[54:59] >> Yes.
[55:00] >> Yeah man. It's
[55:02] people have who haven't experienced it.
[55:04] you're people think it's Christians are
[55:07] um so zealous because of fear or um
[55:12] obligation and it's just the opposite of
[55:15] that when you experience that embrace of
[55:18] love. It is the exuberance is just a you
[55:23] feel
[55:25] like how can I not love back? How can I
[55:29] not respond
[55:31] to such?
[55:32] >> How can I not tell how can I not tell
[55:34] other people?
[55:35] >> Oh man. And that's the part I wish more
[55:38] people would talk about because
[55:39] >> Thank you.
[55:40] >> I experienced you know what?
[55:42] >> Yeah. Go ahead.
[55:44] >> I am the least deserving
[55:46] >> Yes.
[55:47] >> of what happened. I am the least
[55:50] deserving of God's love and grace. Yet
[55:56] he came down like water to where I was
[56:00] and he met me there.
[56:02] >> Yeah.
[56:03] >> And you know what?
[56:06] Testimonies is so important. And none of
[56:10] our testimonies is more important than
[56:12] the next person. And and we all need to
[56:16] share our testimonies because it's how
[56:17] we show the world that Jesus is alive
[56:21] right now at this moment.
[56:22] >> Yeah. And that that's how the works of
[56:26] the cross and the works of the
[56:28] resurrection will manifest in people's
[56:30] life. And and and that is how God will
[56:32] use us to reach people for his kingdom.
[56:35] And it says in Revelations 12:11 that
[56:39] >> by the blood of the lamb and the power
[56:41] of your testimony, you shall overcome
[56:42] the enemy. And it's so true.
[56:44] >> Yeah. Amen.
[56:46] >> That's why I tell people none of this is
[56:48] me. I'm not worthy. This is God. I'm I'm
[56:51] just telling the story.
[56:52] >> Yeah, that's right. And I mean, I I hear
[56:56] what you're saying, but I bet I'm less
[56:58] worthy than you, brother, because
[57:00] uh that's how I feel. And part of the
[57:03] part of my story is that for 13 or 14
[57:06] years, I I pretended to be a pastor. I
[57:09] was a Christian pastor in the Methodist
[57:12] church, ordained and preaching, but just
[57:14] preaching heresy and not convinced at
[57:16] all about I didn't believe in the
[57:18] resurrection. I didn't believe in
[57:19] supernatural things. I just believed in
[57:22] my politics and that's what my quote
[57:24] unquote ministry was all about. And I
[57:26] preached lies and I misled people and I
[57:29] was decrepit inside. I was I was using
[57:32] pornography and and other things for on
[57:35] a daily basis and uh just gross and
[57:38] pretending to be righteous. At least you
[57:39] were honest about being satanic. I just
[57:42] acted satanic and and put a cross around
[57:44] my neck. You know, it's like it was so
[57:46] gross. And yet
[57:50] God came to rescue me. And it was also
[57:53] on a uh you said on a beach is where you
[57:56] had your um your moment. I He likes to
[57:59] have conversations like that on beaches
[58:00] apparently. He had one with Peter once.
[58:02] >> Yes.
[58:03] >> He had one with [laughter] you had one
[58:05] with me and uh on the shoreline of the
[58:07] uh Sea of Galilee actually and um called
[58:10] me home. But but I had the same exact
[58:14] experience of being embraced by absolute
[58:17] perfect love and confronted with my
[58:20] filth at the same time.
[58:23] And it's horrifying and wonderful at the
[58:26] same time because you realize to the
[58:28] extent to which you've offended this
[58:31] perfect loving father
[58:33] >> and for how long and yet he's still
[58:35] hugging you and not tearing you to
[58:38] pieces like he should. and or like he
[58:41] deserves to and yet he's embracing me
[58:44] and and it's just
[58:46] >> it's the most inspiring thing in the
[58:47] world because you you talk about life
[58:50] change like how can I go back to doing
[58:52] what I was doing the way I was doing it
[58:54] and saying what I was saying and if this
[58:56] God loves me this much to know
[58:58] everything I've done and more
[59:01] how can I not love him back to the best
[59:04] of my ability and and and honor him and
[59:07] so everything changed you know it took a
[59:10] while though for me after I don't know
[59:12] if it was like that for you after I
[59:14] converted in my heart to fully convert
[59:16] in my life I dealt with a lot of push
[59:18] back and rejection from people I thought
[59:20] were my friends did you have any of that
[59:23] going I'm sure leaving the satanic
[59:25] church wasn't easy but but what about
[59:28] from Christians even [snorts]
[59:30] >> yeah I lost everything um like
[59:34] materially everything so that was that
[59:36] was hectic but today it really doesn't
[59:39] matter like if I if I can choose I'll s
[59:42] choose Jesus every day. Um because
[59:45] physical things fade. Um I had no
[59:50] I want to say you know real friends at
[59:53] the time standing cuz literally
[59:55] everybody turned their back on me. Um
[59:58] there was a lot of push back
[01:00:01] from Christians
[01:00:03] obviously from Satanists but I remember
[01:00:07] that first year especially
[01:00:09] cuz I also feared for my life at that
[01:00:11] time cuz I knew what these people were
[01:00:13] capable of. So for a year I left fear
[01:00:16] and I looked over my shoulder I carried
[01:00:18] a firearm
[01:00:20] um until God actually showed me like
[01:00:23] just over two years ago like real if you
[01:00:25] are obedient you are safe and that was
[01:00:28] the day I stopped being scared. Um but
[01:00:32] that first year was really intense and
[01:00:36] I'm so actually glad that in that time I
[01:00:39] didn't really engage you know on things
[01:00:41] like social media and I certainly wasn't
[01:00:43] doing interviews like this because
[01:00:45] >> Jesus very specifically told me don't do
[01:00:48] that focus on me just spend time with me
[01:00:51] >> and I did um I was very isolated
[01:00:54] >> for that first year and I'm so glad I
[01:00:57] mean I delve back into the word and for
[01:00:59] the first time also I read scripture
[01:01:02] after 21 years where the Holy Spirit
[01:01:04] broke it open for me as opposed to just
[01:01:07] reading.
[01:01:08] >> Yeah.
[01:01:08] >> So, I'm actually very grateful for that
[01:01:10] year. Um,
[01:01:12] >> did you have to officially Sorry to
[01:01:14] interrupt you. Did you have to
[01:01:15] officially leave the satanic church?
[01:01:18] >> Yes. Yeah. So, um I I had to resign. I
[01:01:23] had to give a month's notice. I also had
[01:01:24] to keep the whole um resigning thing
[01:01:28] quiet until they could prepare. certain
[01:01:30] things cuz for them it was a massive
[01:01:32] thing and I I remember even at a meeting
[01:01:35] that one person came up to me and said
[01:01:37] to me one of the the co-founders and um
[01:01:41] he was on the on the church council of
[01:01:43] the satanic church he actually came to
[01:01:44] me and said I will give you a million
[01:01:46] rand if you never speak about this
[01:01:50] >> um and I said well sorry no not after
[01:01:54] what I've exper my soul is not for sale
[01:01:56] sorry
[01:01:57] >> um but yeah So it it was intense. Um I I
[01:02:03] remember at the time a lot of media, a
[01:02:06] lot of journalists started contacting me
[01:02:08] cuz they they heard a rumor that I left
[01:02:11] and they wanted to know why. So I
[01:02:13] couldn't say anything until that month
[01:02:15] was was over. And then I remember this
[01:02:18] was quite interesting. I made a little
[01:02:20] video on my cell phone that I put out on
[01:02:24] social media just to say, "Listen, this
[01:02:26] is why I left. This is what happened.
[01:02:29] Leave me alone. You have your answers.
[01:02:30] Um, hello everyone that's watching this
[01:02:32] video. Hi. And that video became like a
[01:02:37] massive testimony that was shared. It
[01:02:39] went viral with within a week. This was
[01:02:41] my opportunity and I took it.
[01:02:45] I made the choice. I I choose light. I
[01:02:49] am living for light. And the beautiful
[01:02:52] thing that happened there is the name of
[01:02:54] Jesus was on the cover of newspapers.
[01:02:57] >> Yeah.
[01:02:58] newspapers around the world.
[01:03:00] >> Yeah.
[01:03:01] >> But I mean, I didn't know how to handle
[01:03:04] that type of exposure, you know, or or
[01:03:07] attention. And it's the same today. I
[01:03:10] mean, like I I'm I'm quite well known,
[01:03:13] but I always tell people it's it's
[01:03:16] Jesus. Jesus is the star of the show.
[01:03:18] I'm just telling the story. And I love
[01:03:21] to use my platforms to firstly [snorts]
[01:03:24] empower the body of Christ to actually
[01:03:26] show them this is who Christ is and this
[01:03:29] is why we're conquerors in him.
[01:03:32] >> But then also to give people who are in
[01:03:34] bondage hope that if I can get out and
[01:03:38] if I can be saved, anybody can be saved.
[01:03:41] [laughter] Like
[01:03:43] >> if the leader of the South African
[01:03:44] Church of Satan can be saved and speak
[01:03:46] for Jesus, who's beyond her?
[01:03:48] >> Amen. [laughter]
[01:03:50] Thank you. Because God can do anything.
[01:03:52] >> He can do anything.
[01:03:54] >> God loves working behind the scenes.
[01:03:57] >> Yeah, man. That is beautiful. That is
[01:04:00] awesome. Um, I know everything has
[01:04:02] changed, but if you could sum it up in
[01:04:04] terms of the change Jesus has wrought in
[01:04:06] your heart and life, how would you put
[01:04:07] it?
[01:04:09] >> Sure.
[01:04:11] I am literally a new creation. Um,
[01:04:17] just like I had a conversation with
[01:04:19] somebody the other day like if if I look
[01:04:22] back at that time of my life, even if I
[01:04:23] look at pictures of myself, I don't
[01:04:25] recognize myself.
[01:04:27] >> Yeah.
[01:04:27] >> And like being able to be used for the
[01:04:32] kingdom because you know what? If if we
[01:04:35] give our hearts to God, when we give our
[01:04:38] hearts to Jesus, our hearts doesn't
[01:04:40] actually belong to us anymore. It
[01:04:41] belongs to God. that God will use his
[01:04:44] Holy Spirit to work through our hearts
[01:04:47] to pull people into the kingdom. I still
[01:04:49] cry every time there's a salvation. And
[01:04:52] I mean, I see thousands of salvations. I
[01:04:55] I see people being free from bondage
[01:04:58] every day. And
[01:05:00] that is the meaning for me of my life.
[01:05:03] >> Yeah.
[01:05:03] >> Um to be in service.
[01:05:05] >> Yep.
[01:05:05] >> Um
[01:05:06] >> That's right. And I'm a little further
[01:05:07] out from my conversion than you are, but
[01:05:09] I have found it important to keep
[01:05:11] telling my story.
[01:05:13] >> Um, not not just for other people, but
[01:05:15] to remind myself because sometimes being
[01:05:17] a Christian can become normal in a way
[01:05:19] that it shouldn't. And because the stuff
[01:05:21] he saved me from, I need to remember,
[01:05:24] >> not to have shame about it, but just to
[01:05:26] to claim that victory again and again
[01:05:28] and remember where I was.
[01:05:30] >> Yeah. But for Jesus and where I would
[01:05:32] still be, you know. Um you've talked uh
[01:05:35] at length about the importance of
[01:05:37] deliverance in your in your life uh
[01:05:40] postcon conversion. Uh what is
[01:05:42] deliverance for people that may not know
[01:05:43] and why has that been so important to
[01:05:45] you?
[01:05:47] >> Okay. Um so firstly I want to say that
[01:05:50] it's part of the great commission.
[01:05:52] I also want to mention that a lot of
[01:05:54] Christians don't realize that, but a
[01:05:56] third of Jesus's ministry on earth was
[01:05:59] deliverance.
[01:06:01] >> And
[01:06:03] at the end of the day, it's not us who
[01:06:06] really does the deliverance. It's Jesus.
[01:06:09] So what happens in deliverance ministry
[01:06:12] is when a person is being afflicted or
[01:06:15] oppressed by the demonic by the enemy.
[01:06:19] They they come into a situation or
[01:06:21] experience where they can see firstly
[01:06:25] why because the Holy Spirit reveals to
[01:06:28] both the person that's facilitating and
[01:06:31] the person that's that's being oppressed
[01:06:33] why is this happening? Where did this
[01:06:35] start? so that they can repent for that,
[01:06:38] that they can close any open doors and
[01:06:41] then Jesus comes in and frees people and
[01:06:43] demons leave.
[01:06:45] >> Um, and it's amazing to witness that and
[01:06:48] what it does for people and their
[01:06:50] relationship with God who has been
[01:06:52] through that. I mean, I'm going to be
[01:06:54] honest with you today. Some of the most
[01:06:57] holiest,
[01:06:58] sanctified Christians I know today have
[01:07:01] been oppressed by demons in the past and
[01:07:03] have been through deliverance where
[01:07:04] where they've had to surrender
[01:07:06] everything to God.
[01:07:08] >> Yeah.
[01:07:08] >> And where they experience that freedom
[01:07:10] that that only Christ can bring. So I'm
[01:07:14] very careful when people claim that they
[01:07:18] are doing deliverance or they casting
[01:07:20] out demons because it's Jesus and and
[01:07:23] God saves people, God heals people, um
[01:07:27] Jesus is the one who frees us.
[01:07:29] >> Yeah. So, but so also interestingly um
[01:07:34] two years ago when I went into um
[01:07:37] full-time ministry with my current
[01:07:40] ministry partner Adele, I remember
[01:07:42] saying to her, you know, we're going to
[01:07:44] have so many people from the oult and
[01:07:46] Satanism contacting us for deliverance.
[01:07:50] And lo and behold, almost 2 and 1/2
[01:07:52] years later, more than 80% of people who
[01:07:56] come for deliverance are Christian. M
[01:07:59] >> and it is because Christians
[01:08:02] unfortunately
[01:08:04] engage in things that the Holy Spirit
[01:08:07] warns them not to, but but they do it.
[01:08:10] >> Mhm.
[01:08:11] >> And it gives it gives the enemy a
[01:08:14] foothold when when people open doors. It
[01:08:18] certainly doesn't give the enemy legal
[01:08:20] rights because as it says in the word,
[01:08:23] all legal rights have been nailed to the
[01:08:25] cross.
[01:08:26] >> Yeah.
[01:08:28] But it does give the enemy certain
[01:08:29] foothold and to the point of being
[01:08:32] oppressed. Um I've never seen a
[01:08:34] Christian being possessed though. Never
[01:08:37] never seen that. That's
[01:08:38] >> I've seen
[01:08:40] >> I've seen heretical oppression and
[01:08:42] demonic interference especially where
[01:08:44] Christians have held on to unrepented
[01:08:47] sin where they harbor anger and
[01:08:49] resentment in their heart for years
[01:08:52] where they've engaged in occult
[01:08:54] activities meaning you know going for
[01:08:56] like astrology readings or psychic
[01:08:58] readings um or partaking in certain
[01:09:01] rituals that again they shouldn't. So,
[01:09:04] and especially also Christians that have
[01:09:07] been walking around with unrepented sin
[01:09:10] sometimes for years because they they
[01:09:12] feel guilty. Yeah.
[01:09:13] >> So, instead of talking to God openly
[01:09:16] about these things, the enemy bangs on
[01:09:19] that, you see.
[01:09:20] >> And what kind of
[01:09:21] >> the enemy
[01:09:22] >> I'm sorry, what kind of oppression does
[01:09:23] that how does that manifest in the life
[01:09:25] of a Christian? there's a strain of
[01:09:27] thought that Christians aren't in any
[01:09:29] danger from this sort of thing that
[01:09:30] we're, you know, free and clear. But it
[01:09:32] sounds like I would agree with you that
[01:09:34] Christians can still be uh under attack.
[01:09:37] >> What do you see that manifesting like in
[01:09:39] someone's daily life?
[01:09:42] >> So um the first signs is like suddenly
[01:09:45] overnight there's a struggle to to read
[01:09:48] their Bibles to pray as effectively if
[01:09:50] they as they used to. um being pushed
[01:09:53] against the wall, being pushed um down
[01:09:56] on their bed. Um I've seen Christians
[01:09:59] with oppression being choked. Um then
[01:10:02] you get infestation in the house where
[01:10:06] there's physical things that start
[01:10:07] happening in a person's house. Um,
[01:10:11] but the beautiful thing is that once you
[01:10:14] see this for what it is and you address
[01:10:16] it and you take authority
[01:10:19] and you stand against the enemy and you
[01:10:23] stand again in that authority, it loses
[01:10:25] its hold completely. It's just that the
[01:10:27] enemy doesn't want us to actually have
[01:10:30] 2020 vision and see things for what it
[01:10:32] is.
[01:10:32] >> Yeah.
[01:10:33] >> Um, and the devil can keep people busy.
[01:10:35] Sure. With a lot of things.
[01:10:37] >> Yeah. I mean my my opinion, you can push
[01:10:40] back on this. My opinion is that
[01:10:42] deliverance ministries wouldn't be
[01:10:44] required if the church was doing its
[01:10:46] job. It's a little bit to me.
[01:10:48] >> I agree.
[01:10:48] >> Yeah. I think 100%. I agree.
[01:10:50] >> I just feel like the reason these these
[01:10:53] parurch ministries exist to help people
[01:10:55] with deliverance is because churches
[01:10:56] aren't integrating deliverance and
[01:10:58] dealing with the spiritual world into
[01:11:00] disciplehip, which is where I think it
[01:11:02] belongs. It's just in the disciplehip
[01:11:04] process. We should be teaching people
[01:11:06] and equipping them for for battle. Yeah.
[01:11:09] >> Including one other.
[01:11:10] >> Yeah. And churches seem to be punting on
[01:11:13] that. Pastors punt on that and try to
[01:11:14] outsource it. And you know, it it gets a
[01:11:17] little bit um we've all seen the
[01:11:19] deliverance ministries gone wrong. And I
[01:11:21] think you've talked about that some too
[01:11:22] where you know, deliverance ministries
[01:11:24] themselves aren't under any kind of
[01:11:25] guidance or accountability. And you can
[01:11:28] go all kinds of wrong in in that
[01:11:30] direction as well. My concern is filling
[01:11:32] people with such anxiety. It's almost
[01:11:34] like, not to throw our Catholic friends
[01:11:37] under the bus, but sometimes Catholics
[01:11:38] are in this cycle of guilt and shame and
[01:11:42] fear like, "Have I done enough to still
[01:11:44] be saved?" And I I feel that sometimes
[01:11:47] with um deliverance uh conversations
[01:11:50] that, you know, Christians that get
[01:11:52] delivered think they need more
[01:11:54] deliverance and more deliverance and
[01:11:55] more and it becomes a cycle of anxiety,
[01:11:57] right? How do you avoid that kind of
[01:11:59] thing in your work?
[01:12:00] >> We start with identity.
[01:12:04] So in all our courses, in all our
[01:12:06] teachings, even in our deliverance
[01:12:08] sessions, we start with identity in
[01:12:10] Christ. We we remind people on why they
[01:12:14] are saved in the first place, although
[01:12:16] this and this is going on. And also to
[01:12:18] give authority back to them and say this
[01:12:20] is what you can do even before you go
[01:12:23] through a process of deliverance. And
[01:12:25] because it just makes it so much easier
[01:12:28] when a person realizes that.
[01:12:30] >> Yeah. So um and again it shouldn't be
[01:12:33] about glorifying the devil or giving the
[01:12:36] devil air time or anything. It's about
[01:12:38] this is our authority. This is you know
[01:12:41] what's beautiful as well. Um and again
[01:12:43] this is not my wisdom. This this is
[01:12:45] God's wisdom. So I remember one day I
[01:12:49] was I was reading um it was in Luke 4 or
[01:12:52] 5 more or less and I wrote notes about
[01:12:54] it and it's specifically about the
[01:12:56] temptation of Christ in the desert by
[01:12:58] the devil by the enemy. Right.
[01:13:01] And the next minute this drops
[01:13:04] is that do you know how many Christians
[01:13:07] focus on the image of the devil as per
[01:13:11] the Christian Bible? But what they
[01:13:13] forget is that that version of Satan was
[01:13:18] muted by the cross.
[01:13:20] >> We are actually dealing with a muted
[01:13:24] version of the devil because of the
[01:13:26] cross. And the same spirit that rose
[01:13:30] Christ from the dead lives inside of us.
[01:13:33] >> Yeah. Amen.
[01:13:36] >> So you see this is where we start when
[01:13:38] when when we do when we facilitate
[01:13:40] deliverance for people. We don't start
[01:13:42] with oh the devil this, the devil that
[01:13:44] this. No. Who are you in Jesus?
[01:13:48] >> What does it mean when it says in Romans
[01:13:50] 8 that that Jesus is our advocate at the
[01:13:53] right hand of God right now? What does
[01:13:54] that mean? So that's where we start.
[01:13:57] Yeah,
[01:13:57] >> because again, this is the stuff the
[01:14:00] devil doesn't want people to know. The
[01:14:02] enemy doesn't want us to know our
[01:14:04] authority. The the the devil doesn't
[01:14:06] want us to know our Bibles. Um because
[01:14:09] if we did, we will know. This is where
[01:14:11] oppression can begin and start. We
[01:14:14] shouldn't even give it fear. Do you know
[01:14:16] how many times it says in the word not
[01:14:18] to fear? God doesn't God didn't call us
[01:14:20] for a sphere of fear.
[01:14:21] >> Yeah.
[01:14:22] >> So, these are all tactics that the enemy
[01:14:24] used to keep people busy. the fear, the
[01:14:26] shame, the guilt, doubting who they are
[01:14:29] in Christ, not knowing who Jesus is.
[01:14:32] >> Y
[01:14:32] >> not feeling worthy. You know what I'm
[01:14:35] saying? So,
[01:14:35] >> Oh, yeah. And the anxiety. Yep. Yep.
[01:14:38] >> Correct. So, that is where we start. Um,
[01:14:41] and that is we we partner with the Holy
[01:14:44] Spirit in what we do and we are led by
[01:14:47] the Holy Spirit in our teachings, in our
[01:14:49] deliverance, in our courses, in our
[01:14:51] workshops, in everything. It's it's so
[01:14:54] important.
[01:14:54] >> Yeah. Um, yes.
[01:14:56] >> Do you still find yourself uh dealing
[01:14:59] with spiritual attacks even now?
[01:15:02] >> I think I don't get any more spiritual
[01:15:05] attacks than any Christian.
[01:15:08] >> Yeah. And if someone's watching or
[01:15:10] listening right now, I know we need to
[01:15:12] kind of wrap up. I've kept you longer
[01:15:13] than I said, but if somebody's watching
[01:15:14] or or listening and they're concerned
[01:15:17] about something going on in their heart
[01:15:18] or mind or in their home family, um
[01:15:21] what's your first word of advice to them
[01:15:23] not having, you know, access to a
[01:15:25] one-on-one with them? What would you say
[01:15:26] to them right now as far as next steps
[01:15:29] they could take? Okay. I think the first
[01:15:32] thing is to realize that what Jesus did
[01:15:36] for us,
[01:15:38] the cross, as you said earlier, wasn't
[01:15:41] just about forgiving for God, forgiving
[01:15:44] our sins because of what Jesus did. What
[01:15:47] happened, that event around the
[01:15:50] crucifixion,
[01:15:51] the veil was torn for a reason. Yeah.
[01:15:54] >> So that we can have direct access to
[01:15:57] God. so that we can speak to our father
[01:16:01] directly because of Jesus and through
[01:16:03] what Jesus did. And
[01:16:06] I encourage people when they are dealing
[01:16:10] with those things, go and read Romans 8.
[01:16:13] Go and read about the fact that nothing
[01:16:15] can separate us from the love of God.
[01:16:17] Nothing in the sky, nothing on earth, no
[01:16:20] angels even, no structure, no nothing
[01:16:22] can separate us from the love of God
[01:16:26] when we are in Christ Jesus. And that
[01:16:29] Jesus sits at the right hand of the
[01:16:31] father right now
[01:16:33] >> advocating for us.
[01:16:35] >> Yes,
[01:16:35] >> he is interc and that when God looks at
[01:16:38] you and me, he sees his son because of
[01:16:42] that.
[01:16:43] >> So I want everybody to know that.
[01:16:45] >> Yeah. Amen. And from there you can
[01:16:48] tackle it and you will be a conqueror.
[01:16:51] >> That's right. And if they have somebody
[01:16:53] else that they're worried about, a son
[01:16:54] or a daughter or a husband, wife,
[01:16:56] whatever, it's just a good reminder as
[01:16:58] you told your story, the power of prayer
[01:17:01] uh to cover someone else in the blood of
[01:17:03] Christ. And and you were covered by your
[01:17:06] parents' prayers even when you were
[01:17:07] serving the devil outwardly. And yes,
[01:17:10] >> and that's what kept you tethered and
[01:17:12] protected in some ways. and and prayer
[01:17:14] is um underappreciated in the church
[01:17:17] these days and and the power of it is
[01:17:20] undervalued and and so keep praying. Get
[01:17:22] on your knees and pray for that person
[01:17:23] by name.
[01:17:24] Yeah.
[01:17:25] >> And and if you are a parent, I want you
[01:17:28] to think of how much you love your
[01:17:30] child. And I want you to know that Jesus
[01:17:33] loves your child even more
[01:17:35] >> than what you
[01:17:40] >> Jesus is constantly pursuing your child.
[01:17:44] >> Yeah, that's right. Don't be fearful. Be
[01:17:47] faithful. Trust him. Yeah. Uh, I got to
[01:17:50] ask before we close. That ritual you
[01:17:53] mentioned,
[01:17:54] uh, you were about to do a ritual when
[01:17:57] Jesus showed up when you were lighting
[01:18:00] the pentagram candles and all of that.
[01:18:03] Um, what was that? I just got to know
[01:18:05] what was that ritual supposed to be?
[01:18:08] >> So, at the time, um, there, like I said
[01:18:11] earlier, there's a satanic network
[01:18:13] around the world. um meaning leaders of
[01:18:16] each satanic organization around the
[01:18:18] world have um by yearly online meetings
[01:18:22] where they discuss certain things on the
[01:18:23] satanic agenda etc. But that ritual
[01:18:26] specifically was to see whether the
[01:18:28] antichrist has been born yet or not. Um
[01:18:32] yeah
[01:18:33] >> so okay let me get this straight. So uh
[01:18:35] Satanists are looking for the antichrist
[01:18:38] as well. They believe that that's
[01:18:40] happening.
[01:18:41] >> Yes. Yeah. So, Satanists believe that
[01:18:43] the Antichrist will usher the world into
[01:18:47] the new satanic age, the new satanic
[01:18:49] century, and that they will end up
[01:18:52] leading the physical world. So, their
[01:18:56] hope is in the Antichrist.
[01:18:59] >> Yes.
[01:19:01] >> Fascinating. You don't hear that every
[01:19:03] day that Satanists are also looking
[01:19:05] forward to what we would call the end
[01:19:07] times. Sounds like Satanists might call
[01:19:08] it the new beginning or something. Is
[01:19:11] that
[01:19:11] >> Yes. Correct. Wow. Yeah. Like I said,
[01:19:14] the ushering in of the satanic age. So,
[01:19:16] the start really of um rulership under
[01:19:20] Satan. That that that's really what they
[01:19:22] believe.
[01:19:23] >> What do they think that will happen to
[01:19:25] people of faith, Christians in
[01:19:26] particular in that age?
[01:19:30] So I think what's already starting to
[01:19:33] happen is severe prosecution, the
[01:19:36] killing of Christians, um wiping
[01:19:38] Christianity out of the world completely
[01:19:40] because we also have to understand that
[01:19:43] Satanism is a direct attack on the work
[01:19:46] of Jesus. So even though Satanists don't
[01:19:49] believe in Christ, they don't believe in
[01:19:50] the existence of Christ or God because
[01:19:52] they are under demonic deception. Um our
[01:19:56] our war is not against people. So um and
[01:19:59] it says it in the word um Paul writes it
[01:20:02] beautifully. Our war is not against
[01:20:03] flesh and blood. So our war is actually
[01:20:06] not against Satanist. It's against the
[01:20:08] demons that is controlling them and
[01:20:11] deceiving them.
[01:20:11] >> Mhm.
[01:20:12] >> Um but I was there. I was completely
[01:20:15] deceived.
[01:20:17] So um it's very difficult
[01:20:20] for Christians to look at Satanism
[01:20:24] through let's call it Christian lenses.
[01:20:28] And you know cuz they will never
[01:20:29] understand. So how can people believe in
[01:20:31] the devil but not in Jesus and Satanists
[01:20:33] don't see it that way. They they really
[01:20:36] don't they they believe um Christianity
[01:20:38] to be man-made. It's hypocrisy. It's to
[01:20:42] control people etc. Um where they
[01:20:44] believe that that Satan is sometime just
[01:20:47] an archetype. Um but again like I said
[01:20:50] after that initiation ritual the devil
[01:20:52] becomes very real. Um, and demons become
[01:20:55] very real, but then it's almost too late
[01:20:57] for them um to turn around.
[01:20:59] >> Wow. You would know, brother. You walked
[01:21:01] that journey, man. And God saved you.
[01:21:03] And man, his grace is so powerful. He
[01:21:06] can save anyone. And
[01:21:08] >> you're a testament to that. And I praise
[01:21:10] God for you. And I I I just thank you as
[01:21:12] well for your courage. I know it's all
[01:21:14] Jesus. And I just pray you you you'll
[01:21:16] keep going. I can't close the interview
[01:21:18] without asking you about the tattoos.
[01:21:21] Um, I got to know when when did those
[01:21:23] tattoos uh when did you get those and
[01:21:25] what do they mean to you now?
[01:21:28] [clears throat and snorts]
[01:21:28] >> So that I love that question. Um, so my
[01:21:32] tattoos I actually got before um my
[01:21:35] salvation. So um and after I met Christ
[01:21:39] and right about the time when I started
[01:21:41] with deliverance, I was on this mission
[01:21:44] right to have all my tattoos removed.
[01:21:47] So, I went for about three appointments
[01:21:51] over a 2-month period, and I didn't
[01:21:54] notice any difference, but yet there was
[01:21:57] all this blood coming out of my skin.
[01:21:59] [snorts] And I found out that that the
[01:22:02] woman doing this removal process is
[01:22:04] actually taking my blood to the satanic
[01:22:07] church.
[01:22:07] >> Oh my. What?
[01:22:09] >> And Yeah. And I was extremely upset
[01:22:12] about it. And I went to God and I I
[01:22:16] cried and I said, "God, I'm doing this
[01:22:19] for you. Why are you allowing this to
[01:22:21] happen?"
[01:22:23] And the very first thing God said to me
[01:22:25] is, "Riand, I ask you to remove your
[01:22:27] tattoos." [laughter]
[01:22:30] So I'm like, "No. Um, I should have
[01:22:33] probably discussed this with you. I just
[01:22:35] assumed it was religious Christians were
[01:22:38] telling me you have to have it removed."
[01:22:40] So God told me that if I allow him to
[01:22:44] use it, he will. And I remember at that
[01:22:46] time, so this was like over 3 years ago,
[01:22:49] I was still like, "No, I don't know if I
[01:22:51] if I can trust this this word that I'm
[01:22:53] getting." And 2 weeks after I went to a
[01:22:59] youth camp to go and speak um as a
[01:23:01] public speaker. And on my way there, I
[01:23:04] was actually late and I had to phone the
[01:23:07] lady organizing the youth camp to to ask
[01:23:10] her, can she swap me with somebody um
[01:23:13] that's already there? And she said, "No
[01:23:15] problem, but I'll have to give her some
[01:23:18] some scriptures and stuff that she can
[01:23:20] prepare the presentation and then the
[01:23:22] time I get there, we can just start."
[01:23:24] So I pulled over at this um petrol
[01:23:27] garage and I went in and I stood in
[01:23:32] front of these like a pie stand. I still
[01:23:35] love pies by the way. So I I I stood in
[01:23:38] front of these pies and I took the call
[01:23:41] and I spoke to her and I gave a
[01:23:42] scripture and I explained again about
[01:23:45] identity.
[01:23:47] So about 5 minutes. So the next minute I
[01:23:50] turned around and this massive like
[01:23:53] twice my size Hell's Angel biker stands
[01:23:57] there obviously waiting for the pies as
[01:23:59] well and I was blocking his way. So I'm
[01:24:03] very apologetic. I'm like look I'm so
[01:24:04] sorry and and he said to me you know
[01:24:07] what
[01:24:09] you sound just like any other Christian
[01:24:12] but you don't look like one. Would you
[01:24:15] help me? There you go.
[01:24:19] >> And we went outside
[01:24:22] into the parking lot and he gave his
[01:24:24] life to Jesus. And this was the first
[01:24:29] salvation I witnessed with my eyes of so
[01:24:32] many.
[01:24:34] And I got in my car and I repented. You
[01:24:37] have no idea that I didn't trust God.
[01:24:40] And like you have no idea how many
[01:24:43] people in the last three years start
[01:24:46] conversations with me about my tattoos
[01:24:50] and I get to minister to them and say
[01:24:52] yes I have this tattoo that too because
[01:24:54] I was a Satanist and Jesus saved me. Can
[01:24:56] I tell you how he did it and I I'm
[01:24:59] seeing beautiful things and how God is
[01:25:01] using it.
[01:25:01] >> Gosh. And so that is what my tattoos
[01:25:04] mean for me today is they're ministry
[01:25:06] tools. Y and God is not intimidated by
[01:25:09] tattoos. Trust me.
[01:25:10] >> Nope. Not at all. Some things he'll
[01:25:13] remove from our past and some things
[01:25:14] he'll just redeem and he redeemed those
[01:25:16] for his purposes.
[01:25:17] >> Amen.
[01:25:18] >> Wow.
[01:25:19] >> Yes.
[01:25:20] >> Praise God in so many ways. Um Rion,
[01:25:23] thank you for your testimony. Thanks for
[01:25:24] spending this time with us. I hope
[01:25:26] everybody watching will uh we'll look
[01:25:28] you up online and we'll put some links
[01:25:29] in the uh in the description of the
[01:25:31] episode. so people can find you. And I
[01:25:33] just pray God's blessings and protection
[01:25:35] upon you, brother. And I hope to talk to
[01:25:36] you again soon. God bless you.
[01:25:39] >> God bless. Thank you.
[01:25:40] >> Thanks.