# EPIC Online Technology Meeting on Photonics Packaging and Testing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMILKQ_6n7s

[00:00] hello everyone wow so many friends so
[00:02] they here Wow
[00:04] excellent the we ask are you doing good
[00:06] to see you and my campaign and what
[00:09] everybody Andres here okay let's get the
[00:11] thing started
[00:12] thank you very much all of you for
[00:14] taking the time this afternoon to talk
[00:17] about photonic packaging and testing we
[00:20] have in front of us the whole supply
[00:22] chain from the manufacturing of
[00:24] austerity to the circuits all the way to
[00:26] companies end users in different
[00:29] application fields so let's see how we
[00:31] can work together let's start my name is
[00:35] Jose I am a person who looks really
[00:38] really good in Underpants
[00:40] I was with an infertility in the US and
[00:44] we thought okay the world is really
[00:46] falling apart what can we do to at least
[00:49] at least continue the epic the epic
[00:51] spirit so we cannot with this online
[00:53] technology meeting so there you had the
[00:55] pleasure of attending the number line
[00:58] for the Republican and testing we
[01:00] designed first 15 meetings with hot topics in photonics and it's been so successful thanks to all the feedback that keep receiving for you.
[01:09] I am so happy with this that today I had the pleasure of announcing 15, 16 actually 16 new topics.
[01:15] We are going to have after the first 15, we are going to have a meeting or meeting ferrous photonics.
[01:19] We're gonna have a meeting also on 3D printing, quantum computing, beyond 400 a beam shaping, automotive lighting.
[01:30] Big cell technology and applications, medical lasers, micro LEDs, Co package optics are really extremely hot topic with our friends from the COPO alliance.
[01:41] Laser based semiconductor processing, structure light and computer vision.
[01:47] So the next stage for lighted to be used to revolutionize the industry and hopefully in the future to give eye sight to the blind.
[01:55] Meeting on environmental monitoring with a comparison spectroscopy or companies in Leiden see.
[02:02] how they can detect analyzed pollution
[02:05] whoever have medical endoscopy with
[02:08] difficult with different medical
[02:10] company's a meeting on laser beam welding
[02:12] and finally I'm meeting in a really hot topic these days with UV LEDs technology and applications
[02:18] from purification all the day to all the way to medical light treatment
[02:22] 500 companies with you
[02:27] it's so easy to make these kind of things because for any topic we have so many companies willing to speak
[02:31] I would like to thank all of you for the support we had no problem finding speakers
[02:35] finally made and this for any of the topic so far
[02:39] but please I would like to remind you if you want to speak or attend any of the upcoming meetings please let us know as soon as possible
[02:45] it is so many requests we are gonna happy about do we were so happy about this cause please please let us know in advance as soon as you want as soon as you can
[02:55] please it's an advance if you want to participate in any of their current meetings also when the situation goes back to normal when this common 19
[03:04] thing is the past we're gonna have lots of very interesting presence meetings.
[03:11] but key locations for example we are planning a very interesting meeting in Glasgow quantum photonics.
[03:18] we are coming a very thirsty meeting also at Bosch sensor tag on 3d sensor I'm smart glasses for a year.
[03:26] we are planning a different kind of meeting some I am T at Philips I take the Nano scribe.
[03:35] we really are looking forward for this coffee 19 story to pass.
[03:39] I also would like to remind you that all of you are the big members.
[03:42] you have access to a long list of work reports we use a lot of the money in your budget to buy these macro reports.
[03:50] your market analyst Joel Timothy is very limited and joining great great reports.
[03:55] please using are using and you have any questions about them please ask us to deeper example highlight here the macro people.
[04:01] we were recently on silicon photonics that compares the different platforms from
[04:05] mini unfortunately the way to legion I write for different application fields.
[04:09] and with this reminded you that we are making the biggest the biggest website in job scouting new photonics www dot Java Tony's comm.
[04:19] see you are looking for talent or you can person who is looking for a job you have scouted the job opening.
[04:29] so if I had the members of a peak and we are providing this information to any person looking for a job in photonics.
[04:33] I love working in photonics I've got more people to work in this fantastic technology and with this let's start with the meeting today on photonics packaging.
[04:42] I'm testing this is called a again that looks like pretty nice but I think it looks much better like this and it looks even better when my colleague other concerns shows us what is the framework of the meeting today.
[04:55] thank you very much Jose for this introduction I am very happy to be here today.
[05:01] you will agree with me that we have an amazing list of companies so of course I
[05:08] will always focusing on the end users needs.
[05:10] we will have we will have here the main application field representatives of the main application fields in which photonics optical photonics is optical packaging is key for example we have here Cisco also we have here a Weatherford talk about the different applications we have the packaging and paste services all companies that are part of accept photonic packaging pylon line that will be present by a meteor Brian next and also technologies we have a PTT we Philips innovation services a fix it's going to be it will be a great meeting also for that we need the material say for that we have also a representative of the epics a final line then we also have they they we need we need the software providers we also need optical design for this we will have the presentation of a PLC photonics.
[06:11] also from hopefully of will present
[06:12] about the packaging process and tools a sensation of P I so just a they will in
[06:15] the world a representation of the supply chain is here and also a for volume
[06:19] production production in which a we have they the main challenges so yes this is all from my side
[06:24] did I forget something nothing the world
[06:31] fantastic as usual gracias muchas gracias Anna I would like to remind two things
[06:34] the first one we have a lot of people watching us in the YouTube universe I would like to say hello youtubers
[06:37] if you have any question or you want to contact any of the speakers please send me an email
[06:41] Jose dot Porto and epic - Ahsoka's calm so you have any question or if any need to contact any other participants today to do business
[06:43] hosted a photo at epic - answers to calm my passion the passion of epic is to connect industry don't hesitate to ask a 10-8 the first speaker today and of course we have the honor of presenting the director the picks up
[07:13] Tyler line to open up the show, thank you.
[07:16] Peter for being with us this afternoon.
[07:17] How is the weather there in Cork?
[07:20] Pretty good, Jose, nice to talk to you all.
[07:22] Um, it's okay and we can't go very far.
[07:26] We've got kind of a bit of a lockdown here, but hopefully it'll be out back to normal soon.
[07:29] Beautiful view there, you have the gardening and the kids playing things.
[07:34] Come here, can be worth trying, yeah.
[07:36] Well, they were fighting a moment ago.
[07:39] I taught them to be quiet for the next couple of minutes, so I think they're very close.
[07:42] Thanks very much.
[07:45] So, um, nice to talk to everybody and it's great that we could kind of link up over Zoom.
[07:51] So hopefully to be no hair problems.
[07:53] You can see my screen, can you?
[07:58] Yeah, good, okay.
[08:00] So, and for those who do not know much about picks up there, really, it's a it's a European initiative and it's part of the European pilot line activity.
[08:07] You're across integrated photonics and they've we've been running for the past just over three years now.
[08:11] I mean, a large
[08:13] number of partners across Europe we've added new partners.
[08:15] and what I want to talk briefly about today is kind of give an update on where things are and also just to tell you kind of not who were working with but kind of like the numbers of companies were engaging with.
[08:28] and and tell me about a five minute of so presentation and so as you can see here we have a large number of partners and more recently we've added new partners Vanguard and from afar I see an soos micro optics are not described who are based in Scotland the new UK and what are the key kind of challenges we face is trying to coordinate this activity but because the way things were structured and you know in Europe it's quite fragmented and packaging still is relatively you know it's a growing industry of the tonics but relatively smaller sized companies in Europe.
[09:09] we worked towards standards so basically developing packaging standards and
[09:13] designs where we could kind of like work together and we could transfer development projects to scale up to manufacturing.
[09:21] so essentially what we have is a number of industrial partners who would take on the the transfer to larger volumes and larger volumes are whatever you want them to be from it from an end user.
[09:33] so typically from hundreds and thousands of parts and in some cases now we're working with companies who are looking at hundreds of thousands of parts per year.
[09:39] so it's starting to take off and you see a number of their research partners here as well.
[09:44] so they're involved in development activities but it's all towards standards and we're not currently developing any new processes although we're starting to feed those in and and basically it's coordinated here at Tyndall.
[09:58] so we've got an office we call it the Gateway and it's been very successful.
[10:02] so essentially companies come in want projects and we basically have a team here in Tyndall who will from a technological point of view work with them based on their standards so we kind
[10:14] of advise them and what we offer and then we've got a project management team.
[10:17] who will bend out at build out a kind of a process or a project chart and a timeline.
[10:22] so the current projects typically range from say four to six to maybe nine months long.
[10:29] and that would be maybe to develop all the process a packaging process and to evaluated.
[10:34] and there were a number of projects which have moved beyond a 2's scale up.
[10:38] so we transferred them to industrial partners.
[10:40] what you can see here is a selection of a menu if you will because it's quite complex.
[10:45] so we offer things like fibre packaging and micro optics integration.
[10:51] we even do photonic wire bonding now.
[10:54] the Vanguard we have laser integration hybrid laser integration flip-chip wire bonding and we can kind of develop those processes or mix and match if you will.
[11:04] and we can offer a variety of different you know application areas like telecoms and biosensing etc.
[11:09] and another another challenge we've grown up started to
[11:14] address is when we kind of get projects coming in.
[11:16] obviously we want to look at the standard design phase.
[11:18] we move that to a prototype phase and we've developed these kind of standard prototype kind of bench or open boards solutions and they're basically using our building blocks those standard processes and then what we do is we transfer those to standard package formats and let me go to our industrial partners to scale up.
[11:38] so here you can see kind of a quick selection of actual lab assemblies.
[11:40] this is an assembly for a daily comms device.
[11:43] so all our partners are pretty much contributed to nuts.
[11:47] so we have interposers or a from DC interposers.
[11:49] we do flip chip.
[11:52] we have I C's for amplifiers or modulator drivers and we have pluggable micro optics for pluggable fiber connectors.
[12:01] hybrid laser integration and wire bonding both ribbon and tap standard wire bonding and then we've got other processes I'm not particularly including this like microfluidic integration.
[12:11] so that's a
[12:14] nice example of what we do where are we standing right now.
[12:19] so and I mentioned our gateway companies come in.
[12:23] so it's typically you know we're getting better at kind of pushing this through the pipeline.
[12:28] so we've got about 140 validated inquiries.
[12:33] so these are inquiries where and they know they want to work with us and we usually then engage with a meeting just to understand the needs at a high level.
[12:42] we formulate an NDA and when that could be not just with ourselves at the gateway but our industrial partners who are going to help but not work and then we have basically work towards what we call a statement of work and that defines the contract.
[12:56] and as you can see we've been running for about a year or so these industrial projects.
[13:01] we're running the project itself picks up for about three years and we've got just over 20 projects in its growing.
[13:06] and these are some of these are quite sizable projects.
[13:08] so it's a global it's European point on but it's a global activity.
[13:12] so you can see the spread so it's across the across the world and and it's across different.
[13:17] application areas so I think that's really it from my point.
[13:21] so I know limited to six minutes so Jose I don't know if this people want to ask questions or do we wait till later on in.
[13:27] hello Peter thank you very much great presentation.
[13:31] I will moderate the questions for you that I am very sure that there are going to be quite a lot.
[13:35] one thing Peter how do you see the future of the Pixar file online.
[13:40] I mean what kind of collaborations are you looking for after these a funding period.
[13:45] and when when you know when it picks up becomes a legal entity what kind of companies.
[13:52] okay so what do you want to make clear is that and the idea of Pixar as a pilot line.
[13:59] I don't have too much fun to go into the details but ultimately we're here to serve our customers and our industrial partners especially in Europe.
[14:08] so the pilot line is not there to take away work from an industrial partners and we want companies to join our job is to support them.
[14:16] so really you know I mentioned
[14:19] about how we have an industrial partners.
[14:20] we transfer processes across to them.
[14:22] that's mainly our function one of the things we want to do and go forward is.
[14:26] we're bringing in new technologies so you might look at what I present you and say well I know people who can do that.
[14:32] yeah but we're developing standards around that and we're trying to make a global eyes you know global eyes those standards.
[14:37] what we're working on next is wafer level packaging so we're introducing more wafer level processes and things like npw runs so like a multi project wafer room for packaging so we want to develop that around wafer level processes.
[14:52] so the pilot wine that's the next phase we're already sustainable.
[14:56] we've got enough income now to support our team in tintal for example so after four years we will continue running but I want to emphasize we're there to support our industry partners not to take work away and do it within the pilot line that's a very important point.
[15:12] okay great Peter I think it's clear so okay any question any comment for Peter.
[15:22] okay if not em I would like to maybe this is momento to incorporate in the discussion and one of our special guests today a people from Cisco are you here
[15:38] okay I'm going to maybe I do have a question if we have some time Tobias you from Excel take so Peter very nice presentation
[15:48] so I understand that now picks up is going to be a continuous entity and my question would be how can we participate as an equipment supplier or machine tool supplier
[16:00] yes yes so we have a process now in place we just and it took a little bit of time and so currently the way it's all formulated with the European Commission so we've had add you know a number of partners join and the way it currently runs within our program within the Commission we have to run through these detailed engagement with the Commission it takes
[16:23] A long time once we move beyond out and we come our own independent entity.
[16:28] It's a much quicker process so that will be happening in the next couple of months.
[16:31] So we want to grow that so obviously it's not just the how can I say the processes but equipment and things like that are important as well.
[16:39] So we will be putting that in place once we move beyond the engagements with the commission.
[16:44] Because I think you understand we have you worked the new year projects that it takes a long time for partners to join through that mechanism.
[16:51] So once we become independent we be able to expand that and do it much quicker.
[16:56] Excellent yeah we'd be interested in getting more information on that.
[16:59] Sure okay excellent so nowadays people from this code so thank you very much for joining.
[17:09] I'm very very happy that you can meet here all our supply chain in photonics in Europe.
[17:18] Please could you tell us something about what are they and whether you're interested for joining this meeting whether if you.
[17:24] have any challenging which we can help you in Pisco?
[17:26] Yeah, so now from Cisco point of view, you guys are aware we you know acquired LightWire in 2012 and then we had Lux Terror as part of us now and we are in process of acquiring Acacia.
[17:42] It's not acquired yet, so silicon photonics is one of the very important area for Cisco.
[17:50] And in December 2019, Cisco management also made a presentation to Wall Street.
[17:58] And if you do research with the silicon one strategy of Cisco, you will find a lot of information on that, in which optics is one of the very key area for us.
[18:10] So we always look for all technology and all potential solutions.
[18:12] One of the biggest challenge we and I think the whole industry faces is that the volumes are still pretty low and some and supply chain is very, very fragmented, so we are.
[18:25] looking for things that you know.
[18:27] reliable supply chain basically at appropriate cost and eternal times.
[18:33] okay I think well this is what picks up is focusing on in how to how to scale up a production.
[18:40] so may we can I think that is room for collaboration here anymore.
[18:42] comment for Peter for people can I just like the finer points.
[18:51] so we're obviously European but I'd like to stress the global engagement ton you know we are reaching out to organizations like amethyst onyx and starting to work together on more standardization of processes and help to promote those balding Europe in the US and in Asia as well.
[19:08] so that's an important message and it's a European funded program but it's a global activity.
[19:13] okay great so are you also working with iMac and I am II and some of the other research.
[19:24] yes yes so
[19:26] Well, I make her involved in earth.
[19:27] They're an active partner on IMA and AMF.
[19:30] And other foundries as well, they were involved with those.
[19:32] Okay, yeah, so if we don't have more questions or comments for Peter, I think we can move forward in the program.
[19:45] And so next speaker is with you, Bang.
[19:48] It is the manager at BMC Photonics, so or OTO, if you want, you can share your screen.
[19:55] I can, I will mute. Can't. Yeah, okay.
[20:06] Okay, okay, thank you. Hello, everyone.
[20:11] Yes, I'm Rusty O'Banion's and I'm the test manager of PLC photonic.
[20:16] I would like to start the presentation with a short introduction to who we are.
[20:18] Busy Photonics was born, okay, yeah, was born in
[20:26] 2011 and in space in balance
[20:29] yes pain and currently our team is
[20:32] composed by 17 people with an extensive
[20:34] academic and industrial knowledge and
[20:36] have more than 13 years experience in
[20:39] the field of integrated optics and
[20:42] photonics but what we what do we do
[20:45] bill bill see photonics yeah I mean
[21:02] sorry
[21:04] ok but what do we do beauty photonic
[21:08] follows its follows a fabulous business
[21:12] model providing engineering service for
[21:13] the development of photonic intuitive
[21:15] tickets from the consultancy to the
[21:18] in-house design characterization and
[21:20] tests I'm broken for manufacturing and
[21:22] packaging through our stem safe network
[21:26] of partners but we are here today to to
[21:29] talk about pick testing so first start
[21:32] with the common development of photonic
[21:34] intuitive liquids it can be divided in
[21:36] three different stages first one is
[21:38] fabric design then we go for fabrication
[21:41] and last one would be packaging but
[21:44] before product goes to the to the market
[21:48] we need to to go over this cycle this
[21:51] cycle to do several iterations to of
[21:54] this I got to do to activate a design
[21:56] and to iterate and optimize the design
[21:58] we need to characterize at the
[22:00] fabrication and
[22:02] also taste at the packaging the captain
[22:05] say Shion can be done before or perform
[22:07] a there are building block level our at
[22:09] the thick resist 11 the system or the
[22:13] free quiz are composed by different
[22:15] building blocks and this building block
[22:17] are the design either by the foundry and
[22:20] included in epi decay or by the designer
[22:23] and depend dearly on the manufacturing
[22:26] processes seen the photonic
[22:28] manufacturing processes are usually not
[22:31] fully stable PD case are not as mature
[22:36] as the side building tick blocks need to
[22:39] be characterized at the fabrication why
[22:41] because we need to evaluate the
[22:43] performance and the tolerances of the
[22:45] manufacturing and also to evaluate the
[22:47] overall design of the of the the overall
[22:50] performance over design
[22:52] moreover the cat decision allow us to
[22:56] define the what we identify the the best
[22:59] known good dies to go later for
[23:02] packaging and then we we have to
[23:05] identify these dies we can go for
[23:08] packaging and test our component or
[23:10] assembly and at this point if necessary
[23:15] after evaluate or the result if
[23:17] necessary we should optimize the design
[23:19] by fitting all this information into the
[23:21] building block compact models but ok if
[23:25] we focus only in the component
[23:28] cartelization estate we can divide it in
[23:32] two levels let's say the wafer level or
[23:35] bar level testing characterization and
[23:38] the birthday level testing the wafer
[23:40] level cultivation is mostly done by the
[23:43] families to model to validate the wafer
[23:46] and building blocks and tends to be or
[23:50] aims to be fully automated it should be
[23:54] done on the tester structure when I
[23:57] place our own their wafer and it's and
[24:01] it also includes optical and electrical
[24:04] measurement but sometime the optical
[24:08] measurement is quite complex because
[24:11] unless we have a vertical rating
[24:14] couplers we require another
[24:16] like mirror or detecting light on tip
[24:20] etc so that's is one of the challenge
[24:23] for fully cut they say soon at water
[24:26] level on the other hand we had the
[24:28] bairdi level these calluses income is
[24:32] down mostly or by the end-user or by a
[24:35] test partner it's low automated and
[24:39] consists of the cutter he says you know
[24:42] building block but also the seat Queen
[24:45] at the secret or cistern level it
[24:48] includes not only optical and electrical
[24:51] measurement but also we need to perform
[24:54] environmental and burning tests since it
[24:58] spits it is photonic intuitive take
[25:01] which has different requirement and
[25:03] characteristics like coupling vertical
[25:07] coupling or as coupling
[25:09] sighs modify diameter of the waveguide
[25:13] and so on its peak requires a very
[25:16] customized setup and also a wide range
[25:21] of component and instrumentation and
[25:23] then know-how afford to do it the
[25:25] measurement so that is why VLC photonics
[25:29] which start at artists eyebrows start to
[25:33] offer many years ago characterization
[25:36] services either add eye level birthday
[25:39] level and also packet in testing
[25:43] currently we we are developing also the
[25:48] capabilities to provide wafer level
[25:50] testing including optical electrical
[25:53] services measurements and to do so
[25:56] overlap include digital and allow your
[25:58] testing equipment up to 40 G layers for
[26:01] complete set up for vertical and it's
[26:03] coupling to set up for elliptical wafer
[26:09] level testing and also thermal testing
[26:12] and cycling capabilities it's I mean I
[26:15] think it's obvious there that the cat
[26:19] occasional bird eye level is bird eyes
[26:22] it's very very complex it's a very
[26:26] complex task and required various
[26:29] see if and customized equipment so
[26:32] furthermore there are some Peaks that
[26:35] require not only optical and electrical
[26:38] signal but a lot of several of them like
[26:42] the the photographic we can see now in
[26:45] the field we have more than 40 DC signal
[26:49] at the same time so it becomes even more
[26:52] challenging to do the bird I cut a
[26:55] station so that is why also PLC
[26:58] photonics offer a kind of assembly twist
[27:04] the traffic characterization with this
[27:06] demo war to quit include the wire
[27:09] bonding and not only is the type of
[27:12] characterization but also provide a more
[27:15] robust handing of the chip have in mind
[27:20] that one of most of our customers do not
[27:22] have the capabilities to characterize
[27:24] the tips because they don't have the
[27:27] equipment in-house and they can not
[27:29] afford the the the investment on don't
[27:32] want to so this kind of approach will
[27:35] help also the customer to to get easier
[27:38] to to characterize their tips but I want
[27:42] to remain here that is only an assembly
[27:45] for for is the task of characterization
[27:48] we always rely on dedicated packaging
[27:52] partner for more advanced package but
[27:54] you can see we have different PCB an
[27:57] array an RF carrier to do it is a handli
[28:01] node electrical signal and also we are
[28:04] developing a very basic favor fiber and
[28:08] fiber repeat daily so that is all on my
[28:13] side and if you have any question thank
[28:20] you
[28:21] for a great presentation and great
[28:22] introduction is not your first ever epic
[28:25] meeting your undivided epic meeting at
[28:27] pieces so you know the trick here what
[28:29] can you do for them for the whole
[28:31] company's around you and what can they
[28:33] do for you
[28:35] Wow we are developing these the wafer
[28:39] level testing and it's very very
[28:42] challenging because we need to be
[28:44] flexible but at the same time the
[28:48] process need to be very customized for
[28:50] it's it's process so something we need
[28:55] to go in more detail with the
[28:58] appropriate companies it's got a quick
[29:01] discussion with the appropriate
[29:02] companies the first one is gonna be me
[29:04] advice juice Fe from
[29:05] lacs see me backs I believe you have a
[29:08] question for us here right yeah I thank
[29:10] you very much for giving at the time I
[29:12] actually wrote it down because a bit
[29:13] noise in the background let me try again
[29:15] so you showed some very nice layouts of
[29:18] how to do the assembly and the packaging
[29:20] and the testing especially especially
[29:21] with the multi probe scenario now put
[29:25] yourself in a scenario of a recruitment
[29:27] manufacturer what would be the ideal
[29:29] machine you would like to have to do
[29:31] this in an automated manner because one
[29:34] target is of course that the work of
[29:36] Peter O'Brien comes into play and
[29:38] there's a standardization but you also
[29:40] need from the other side a push from the
[29:42] equipment manufacturers such as Torsten
[29:44] for example here or phobia that try to
[29:47] build something for you can you give an
[29:49] overview
[29:49] thank you very much Jose but nobody a
[29:53] manufacturer knows a quiz Mary wish list
[29:56] let's put it a wish list is endless I
[30:02] mean we will need for example for the RF
[30:08] probes we will need we will need to
[30:11] standardize mainly and get provided to
[30:15] have like a backup of RF roof because
[30:18] with when we need to I'm very a customer
[30:21] or RF or we need to Sonos this equipment
[30:24] its daily time is very very high so it's
[30:27] delay the project a lot so maybe to have
[30:31] like various thunder and
[30:33] it's more on the design part they need
[30:35] to stick to this a standard maybe for
[30:39] their also for the top-line let's cut
[30:42] the fiber the fiber arrays we will need
[30:45] to equipment has to be able to do manage
[30:49] different type of coupling like it's not
[30:52] the same using a lens fiber or a fiber
[30:55] array or a unit or fiber array or so in
[30:59] terms of equipment when we have several
[31:02] thing to improve a week shopping list
[31:05] and I think many many companies who can
[31:07] satisfy that show beliefs are here I was
[31:09] in the YouTube channel
[31:10] you cover the question from Tobias Maxim
[31:13] deck yeah first thanks much that was a
[31:16] really good question I think and I have
[31:20] I have a question on top and that would
[31:23] be what would be your plan on well
[31:26] wrapping up your production house are
[31:30] you planning to do this yourself because
[31:32] it is a lot of equipment you need or are
[31:34] you planning to make well use of of
[31:38] providers basically chop-chop assembly
[31:40] providers for example goes from fix is
[31:43] here yeah we will rely in and still not
[31:47] provide it yeah so yeah and also I
[31:52] really like what you liked about what
[31:54] you said about the flexibility and
[31:58] basically standardization so I don't
[32:01] have a presentation a little bit later
[32:02] and I'm happy to show you our approach
[32:04] to well yeah to put this into about one
[32:09] solution so okay I cannot wait anymore
[32:12] guys and so I cannot wait anymore
[32:14] I discuss offline with my friend Bob
[32:16] clock mask about how long it would take
[32:19] for this meeting to deal with with
[32:21] standards it's not gonna take very long
[32:25] and he didn't take very long it was
[32:26] retreat in the first presentation by
[32:28] Peter O'Brien and the first question
[32:30] that was asked to wrote you definitely
[32:32] she said standards have been a key a
[32:34] book you welcome of the drivers of the
[32:36] European project which was one with the
[32:38] best the first project that was dealing
[32:39] with packaging standards what have you
[32:41] seen in the last years in the evolution
[32:44] of this packaging standards can I just
[32:46] ask Raymond
[32:47] yes you're going that was a really
[32:49] blending away some of you may be
[32:55] familiar with this this was the paradigm
[32:56] project they finished them six years ago
[32:59] and that was aimed at standardizing the
[33:03] packaging work possible and the project
[33:06] ended up with this package here this was
[33:08] the first package proposal the idea was
[33:10] it was a small but very flexible package
[33:13] had a lot of RF and a lot of DC
[33:17] connections and it would also support up
[33:21] to 12 single mode fibers in an array
[33:22] that was told with Kyocera and you can
[33:28] see the pricing not that's excessive
[33:30] about 40 or 50 euros for a package of
[33:33] this complexity was actually a very good
[33:35] price
[33:37] Tyndale Peter used this early on
[33:40] probably about four years ago now and
[33:43] it's also been used by Bay photonics for
[33:46] some design the package design itself is
[33:50] open source if anybody's interested in
[33:53] it but if this was the first attempt at
[33:56] looking at standardizing pick packaging
[33:59] to try and making this record as
[34:00] possible there was also a lot of effort
[34:03] went into standardize in the
[34:05] manufacturing technologies and what one
[34:09] of the most interesting things here is
[34:11] in the pic 10 overview one of the most
[34:14] expensive aspects of manufacturing is
[34:17] usually associated with the act of
[34:18] alignment not so much the equipment but
[34:21] it's the testing that you have to go on
[34:23] to optimize performance and with this
[34:27] particular package and the pigs we
[34:29] design where possible a little of domini
[34:32] SLA on one of the waveguides and all you
[34:35] had to do would just drive it and pick
[34:38] up the light and do the alignment
[34:39] obviously it's come it simplifies things
[34:42] from when you're trying to align a
[34:44] receiver
[34:45] whatever if you can have the light
[34:47] coming out so there are a lot of aspects
[34:49] on this and I think there are still
[34:51] reports available on the whole project
[34:54] so but I just wanted to summarize where
[34:57] we were looking to go with
[34:59] standardization on the package itself
[35:01] so we were the paradigm project made a
[35:03] difference with it was the first time
[35:05] that as you said very well we were
[35:07] looking at active alignment as a not a
[35:11] limiting factor but as a opportunity for
[35:13] decided the best possible packaging in
[35:16] certain production and that's why in my
[35:18] opinion you have made the perfect
[35:20] introduction to the next company
[35:22] presenting I have honored having hello
[35:25] now can I ask a question on is too late
[35:28] of course people Cisco can always ask
[35:30] questions yeah we are challenged that we
[35:33] have to do our packaging within the
[35:34] constraints so we are in business to do
[35:38] packaging either in a QFP or acoustic
[35:40] PPD or OSF P package right so how does
[35:42] this standardized and standardization of
[35:45] packaging helps with that so a deal that
[35:49] they use of P DV or OSP is it's a
[35:52] decision that is not for us to make but
[35:54] we are working directly with ideally 802
[35:57] the three and we have a meeting on going
[36:00] beyond 400 G only in two weeks in which
[36:03] is really all about this oedema today we
[36:05] are working with a team at Elias and
[36:07] Kobo to give us the standards and those
[36:09] will fit into picks up and picks up is
[36:12] the company we set up into the standard
[36:13] to design rules for the packaging of
[36:15] silicon photonics indium for silicon
[36:18] nitride so this is called supply chain
[36:19] works which the industry would make a
[36:22] decision already on qpv versus OSP
[36:25] as far as I understand the decision is
[36:27] still very far away from being taken
[36:29] yes surface mount because besides just
[36:38] the data comes market we see great
[36:40] interest and things like lighter and
[36:42] free space applications so the surface
[36:44] mount tight package and beyond the QSF
[36:47] these they're on board type bound like
[36:50] switch applications would be surface
[36:53] mounted potentially so it might be the
[36:55] next generation like BGA started
[36:58] packages with optics at the surface of
[37:01] the package
[37:02] much like with acacia has done at the
[37:05] some degree with the PGI style package
[37:07] to make before we're looking at a
[37:08] convert a broader sense as well be only
[37:10] just the telecoms harsh the answers your
[37:14] question I think it does that's the
[37:18] question that we got in the YouTube chat
[37:20] and somebody was asking actually
[37:21] gratefully it was asking if we have to
[37:23] diversify that really our stance at the
[37:25] question very well and with this way we
[37:27] move on unless the risk one more
[37:29] question from anyone regarding OSAP or
[37:31] case of pdb we have a whole meeting to
[37:34] talk about this so keep those questions
[37:35] for that meeting which is a really
[37:36] really cool cool topic we moved to a
[37:38] next presenter is my friend Thurston
[37:41] Valen come from Vikon Tech Thurston
[37:43] thank you very much for joining us from
[37:46] this beautiful beach and the attention
[37:49] 31 is yours thank you thank you for
[37:52] inviting me and thank you for giving me
[37:55] the opportunity in my heart in my chest
[37:58] there's actually two hearts beating one
[38:00] I lost standardization on the other hand
[38:01] I I really live from a non-standard
[38:04] world that the photonics so due to the
[38:07] fact that everybody do does everything
[38:09] different so we're selling a lot of
[38:10] machines so um
[38:12] so actually what we are doing flattened
[38:14] expense for fiber connecting technology
[38:15] are now 20 years in this industry was
[38:19] actually one of the first equipment
[38:21] manufacturers in that industry and no
[38:28] can you see my screen right now
[38:33] we can see crystal clear so um due to
[38:37] the fact that we are doing it already so
[38:39] long we went through all the different
[38:40] cycles so we we started with the first
[38:48] machines in the laser diodes area we
[38:52] were building stacking machines for the
[38:54] Wii stacking unstacking processes of
[38:58] laser diode bars for the cooling process
[39:00] fully automatic inspection machines
[39:03] laser diode testers then we went into
[39:07] the high precision die bonding area and
[39:10] we do that actually passive and active
[39:12] we do laser soldering processes epoxy
[39:16] attached processes of the of the laser
[39:19] chips but the main areas we are active
[39:22] in is the reactive attachment and
[39:26] alignment of the lenses and very complex
[39:30] optical service and race and the fire
[39:33] array and fiber attached to processes
[39:36] that's where every where the name
[39:38] originally come from fight or connecting
[39:39] technologies so this you can see in all
[39:42] different colors and way so people do
[39:45] optics assembly I think we have seen it
[39:48] all and there's they're becoming
[39:50] tremendously challenging going forward
[39:53] in all different application telecom
[39:55] datacom light house fire sensing all
[40:01] these different areas they are moving
[40:03] into photonics and we do a pretty new
[40:07] area and it's a very fast-growing area
[40:10] for us to see the trip testing has shape
[40:13] level or wafer wafer level with complex
[40:17] instrumentation so all these areas we
[40:21] are servicing with our machines so it's
[40:24] very diversified and the key point is
[40:29] really we build machines so for us is
[40:33] the Machine always the physical
[40:35] manifestation of the process so we are
[40:38] process experts and we are helping our
[40:41] customers to bring in process
[40:46] into a machine and that's what we do so
[40:49] we don't do any subcontracting we don't
[40:51] do any
[40:55] module assembly we are building machines
[40:57] to help our customers to do that and
[40:59] then involves a lot of different
[41:01] disciplines so the one is the the key
[41:03] part is the software and the software
[41:05] development in our software now there's
[41:07] a 20 years of experience of different
[41:10] methods and ways how to assemble these
[41:12] optical adds elements there's a huge
[41:15] part of mechanical design it's a
[41:17] flexible platform where over the last
[41:19] years which has building blocks but it
[41:22] can pull things together very quickly in
[41:24] order to build relatively customized
[41:27] machines which are flexible also in
[41:29] future a huge part of it is
[41:31] instrumentation because each module has
[41:33] to be driven differently each module has
[41:36] different readouts we have to drive the
[41:38] lasers differently so you have to know
[41:40] your instrumentation and for sure the
[41:43] process know-how process know-how you
[41:45] have to have in order to make sure that
[41:47] the machine is finally doing what you
[41:48] want to do you wanted to do we are
[41:51] supporting this activity with our laser
[41:53] and optic experts who are actually
[41:55] speaking the language of our customer so
[41:57] we are trying to be the machine builder
[41:59] who speaks optics so in the thing we
[42:01] have established that's pretty well over
[42:03] the last years
[42:07] machines to mass production when you see
[42:09] our machines we're building today we are
[42:11] really building one of machines for our
[42:13] customers they are located in usually
[42:16] either research institutes or they set
[42:20] standard their NPI lines of our
[42:21] customers and then we scale up once we
[42:25] understand the process on one of the lab
[42:28] systems we can easily scale to higher
[42:30] volume so there are slab systems with
[42:33] production capability production systems
[42:35] with development capability machines
[42:38] which are kind of feeder in feeder out a
[42:40] type of tray magazine handling and know
[42:44] already the first food production line
[42:47] where we have input in total it's like
[42:49] 14 individual systems hooked up to each
[42:53] other several feeders passive and active
[42:56] optical assembly in these lines and
[42:58] finally end of line testing laser
[43:00] marking so at the end of this line
[43:03] there's blisters coming out with the
[43:06] blisters ready to go to the customer
[43:08] side I just have to because it's usually
[43:10] something you don't see too often and
[43:12] that is a installed line of one of our
[43:14] biggest customer these customer has
[43:17] employed 102 is in a clean room that is
[43:20] one of the base where there is one
[43:22] machine after the other so I'm pretty
[43:24] proud of that
[43:25] that they have managed to support that
[43:28] for this kind of customers we can can
[43:31] ship today like up to I think four
[43:34] systems per week
[43:38] it's but it's very important that we
[43:40] keep our flexibility to do also one of
[43:42] machines so because each one of machine
[43:45] can turn into a large volume customer
[43:47] you never know that before and I quickly
[43:50] want to talk about this isn't very
[43:52] important for us what we have seen over
[43:54] the especially the last year and that
[43:56] started with the China American trade
[43:59] war and it becomes increasingly visible
[44:05] in the now in the corona crisis is that
[44:08] you have global arrangements of supply
[44:13] chains but people start to act very very
[44:15] local so that is a challenge for us
[44:18] because we ship machines everywhere and
[44:21] we have to be super flexible but we are
[44:23] seeing that the areas becoming isolator
[44:27] isolated and so for us
[44:31] is that the key we have to build up very
[44:34] strong local teams and you have to build
[44:37] very strong application engineering and
[44:38] I think it's a challenge for Europe
[44:40] because we have to make sure that we
[44:42] have and a lot of people already today
[44:46] online like tech Nobles fix there's I
[44:51] rotate there's many many partners in
[44:55] Europe do contract manufacturing and
[44:58] also very strong process with us very
[45:01] strong process background and I think we
[45:04] have your we have to make sure that in
[45:06] Europe we keep
[45:08] this capability and grow it faster in
[45:11] order to to be able to to compete in
[45:16] future we can't ship everything to to
[45:21] Asia so we have installed over 800
[45:24] machines 600 of these machines are
[45:27] currently in Asia and personally really
[45:29] would like to see more of them in Europe
[45:31] thank you
[45:34] thank you very much Thurston great
[45:36] presentation I have to tell you to tell
[45:38] you that we have been very very
[45:40] impressed with the evolution of your
[45:42] company in the next in the last year's
[45:45] and I think it points out the importance
[45:48] of the packaging no I'm going to large
[45:51] volumes of the car packaging so first of
[45:54] all I will offer to our people here in
[45:57] the - meeting - to ask a question for
[46:00] Thurston I have a question arose from
[46:04] fixed perfectest
[46:06] Thurston can you comment a bit on the
[46:11] let's say the ratio of machines that you
[46:14] sell to contract manufacturing companies
[46:17] versus vertically integrated product
[46:20] companies so it's I think for for most
[46:28] of the contract manufacturer
[46:30] manufacturers we are the necessary evil
[46:33] because we are working against their
[46:37] against their business model because
[46:41] what usually the contract managers are
[46:43] trying to sell his space and people and
[46:47] a logistic chain we are trying to put as
[46:50] less as little amount of people and very
[46:54] little space so but finally what our
[46:59] business model or how are we so on up to
[47:01] days that the contract manufacturers
[47:02] themselves they don't buy directly the
[47:04] big ones at least there's the customers
[47:06] installed at their site so um that is
[47:10] what we have seen very little and it
[47:11] might be different for equipment
[47:13] manufacturers we we don't have a lot of
[47:15] contract manufacturers which have their
[47:17] own NDI capabilities on our machines
[47:19] that is what I really like about what
[47:22] I'm seeing right now at your site or in
[47:24] techno base and so they they have the
[47:26] capability to develop process and turn
[47:28] that into a higher volume process so
[47:31] that is actually different from from the
[47:34] larger contract manufacturers we see
[47:35] okay so I have a question this is we
[47:38] pull from Cisco the hundred machines
[47:40] that you mentioned in a Bay are they in
[47:43] silicon photonics Syria or others area
[47:45] for silicon photonics
[47:47] thank you okay
[47:53] mucho good machine pretty nice so
[47:55] there's several process steps so there's
[47:59] the number of lines is not 100 okay just
[48:06] the maybe you can take this opportunity
[48:08] to introduce what the fix is doing yeah
[48:13] yeah we are a contract manufacturer but
[48:19] we indeed torsion already men's do offer
[48:22] also engineering services to our
[48:26] customers and we what we do see is that
[48:29] most of the customers that come with a
[48:32] product concept or a chip that needs to
[48:36] have a product designed around it and
[48:38] also have the processes to assemble at
[48:41] design so we do basically that entire
[48:45] process for our customers oh we did
[48:48] product development process development
[48:49] and at the end also the manufacturing
[48:51] and that's what we do in in the
[48:53] Netherlands okay and now let's go all
[49:00] the way to Philips innovation services
[49:03] and would you like to introduce what
[49:06] your company is doing yes hi I'm Jesse
[49:13] from Philips innovation services what we
[49:16] were doing we're in principle helping
[49:19] our customers customers to scale from
[49:21] from prototype to idea to market to
[49:24] production and we are active in
[49:28] electronics also - manufacturing we
[49:32] recently had more interest in in
[49:33] photonics so that's why we are here
[49:37] because we're also looking at
[49:39] possibilities of packaging photonic
[49:43] circuits and we are more focused on the
[49:46] process development so that's also at
[49:48] what Thurston mentions that engineering
[49:50] part of actually designing the
[49:54] production process also a volume
[49:56] production but that's also for the
[49:58] contract manufacturers
[50:00] okay do we have more questions for
[50:04] Thurston for any of the companies that
[50:08] have been introduced it now okay if not
[50:15] we are going to forward in the
[50:19] if not we are going to forward in the
[50:19] program so we are going to introduce the
[50:21] next speaker a Tobias acknowledge a
[50:24] product manager at gen optic what a
[50:27] great company so you can share your
[50:33] screen so okay okay I like to speak
[50:43] about today about an optical solution
[50:46] for high volume testing of photonic
[50:49] integrated circuit on May 11 so this
[50:52] solution we call you for probe you walk
[50:56] through and yeah it stands for
[50:59] ultra-fast optics Roenick pool card and
[51:01] as mentioned some thoughts before yeah
[51:06] your addressing the high volume part of
[51:10] the verify level testing and this
[51:13] solution is started especially for
[51:20] photonic integrated circuits for a
[51:21] transceiver that's a first application
[51:24] and my colleague Tim Lindsay
[51:28] he talked about on Wednesday about other
[51:34] production on micro lenses in the ICT
[51:39] market and from this market we learned
[51:42] that there is a certain demand on
[51:44] testing and so we looked into this
[51:48] market and she saw that the current
[51:53] commercially available solutions are all
[51:56] fiber based the neglect of alignment and
[51:59] all have support electrical and optical
[52:03] folks so mostly they use dedicated power
[52:06] equipment and if you're going to
[52:09] paralyze the measure
[52:12] that has only limited or sometimes no
[52:16] possibility to do that so since we are
[52:19] new from from this market we had yeah
[52:21] the luxury I would say to go back from
[52:24] and look on it from one sketch on and we
[52:28] thought about an ideal solution and how
[52:31] this would look like and we came up that
[52:34] in an ideal case it should work was plug
[52:38] plug and play ready was was a existing
[52:41] standard equipment equipment which is
[52:45] spread around the manufacturing floors
[52:48] and in yeah in the tabs ideally it would
[52:54] need no active alignment and we should
[52:57] be able to paralyze a qualification kind
[53:01] of multi-touch regime and on top of it
[53:05] you should the normal person at this
[53:10] using the standard IC equipment should
[53:12] work with this new optical solution as
[53:18] well so no special advanced training
[53:20] should be meted so we looked into some
[53:23] possibilities and developed an solution
[53:27] and TAC the first technical demonstrator
[53:31] it is based on an October interface it's
[53:35] a you a card or you through card format
[53:38] it has an analytic optical module that's
[53:43] situated here in the center and that
[53:46] sunglass based optical module with
[53:50] passive optical circuitries in waveguide
[53:56] semi so the current prototype has 16
[53:59] optical channels I also and it is
[54:03] completely integrated into the pro card
[54:06] you see here the cross section on it
[54:10] this pocket solution works currently was
[54:13] quite in copper so we need vertical
[54:16] light action with the wafer and the
[54:23] basic task
[54:25] of this module is to deal with the cause
[54:28] I see Provo are tolerances which are an
[54:32] area of some micrometers and and
[54:35] therefore we implemented an alignment in
[54:37] sensitive optical solution here by kind
[54:40] of beam shaping solution and in optical
[54:44] iOS and therefore this poke card can
[54:47] sympton see contact the electrical and
[54:51] optical contacts and yon lower-right you
[54:56] see in photo of our lab qualification it
[55:03] was a single die so and provides hard to
[55:06] take a picture so what did we achieve by
[55:10] now so we developed an scalable solution
[55:13] because these 16 channels is not the
[55:16] limit so we can even go up to 150
[55:19] millimeter diameter was a lot of more
[55:23] optical channels and it's fully
[55:26] integrated so lower solutions fully
[55:29] integrated in this we demonstrated it on
[55:33] the wafer level on an actual power so
[55:36] here together with HTT and the yes test
[55:39] on an aqua tech you have 200 l our robot
[55:43] that's this solution here and we showed
[55:47] that this solution can work was a cause
[55:51] forward tolerances and so we also found
[55:55] other partners where we can show there's
[55:59] this capability on a on the test how was
[56:02] flaws or was together was Microtech we
[56:05] showed capability on numerous systems
[56:08] and I could take you of 2004 for 3
[56:12] millimeter wafers and so this solution
[56:17] is ready for high-volume manufacturing
[56:20] and what we are doing now is
[56:22] establishing commercially available
[56:25] manufacturing chain it was partners and
[56:28] here for example together was HT t so I
[56:31] was HT t we created this
[56:35] poke card because we want to really want
[56:39] to focus on our optical expertise and we
[56:42] do not want to invent the electrical
[56:45] part again and therefore we cooperate
[56:48] was manufacturer and incorporate our
[56:52] optical resolution into the different
[56:56] solutions and together was my take it's
[57:02] it's it's a good thing because we always
[57:05] have a kind of optical element for
[57:08] testing they doing tests and the actual
[57:13] tests in their house and together we
[57:17] consume the our individual roadmaps and
[57:23] to bring this to a level to the market
[57:26] and yeah the next things you're focusing
[57:30] on is developing the platform because
[57:34] this concept is really invented as a
[57:37] platform design and we going to adapt
[57:40] this for different needle technologies
[57:42] different applications and also we're
[57:45] thinking in the direction of MEMS
[57:47] testing or what this solution is really
[57:50] capable of because of the i io account
[57:55] my account is for optical switching
[57:58] solutions instance so it's a short
[58:04] summary on what we're doing for the
[58:06] testing and yeah thank you thank you
[58:11] very much so yes we major colleagues at
[58:13] E and I was amazed by the amount of
[58:17] interest the cart
[58:18] has being attracting already of epic
[58:20] industry I know you tell me that you
[58:22] want to adapt it to particular
[58:24] applications and develop some probes
[58:26] customized to those applications so to
[58:27] satisfy the next stage which partners
[58:31] which companies do you want to
[58:32] collaborate with yeah so as I said yeah
[58:38] cooperating was okok manufacturers to
[58:42] really build and and sell this for cards
[58:45] but
[58:46] to most customers ask for a complete
[58:49] solution and therefore we it's good to
[58:52] also cooperate with 18 companies which
[58:55] are doing really actually test equipment
[58:59] also the the problem to plant companies
[59:03] I it wants so that would be a good
[59:11] solution to integrate it into the market
[59:14] and yeah in the end the customers which
[59:18] are actually doing test bike so yeah
[59:20] would be happy to talk to Leo see
[59:23] because I see that's a pretty good
[59:28] application what what they're talking
[59:30] and I see a good match yeah for me there
[59:35] is a company in epic that has made me
[59:37] very excited about because for many
[59:39] years we've been talking about packaging
[59:41] houses but the Roth micro tech which was
[59:45] already collaborating with an optic is
[59:47] here today and the offering testing
[59:48] services I really want to know what you
[59:50] can do for all these people or what
[59:52] these people can do for you and yeah ok
[59:54] yeah you say thank you I'm we are a test
[59:58] house providing test solutions from
[01:00:02] wafer level tests to our final test of
[01:00:06] package devices you're providing a
[01:00:09] lifetime tests that you in given
[01:00:12] atmospheric conditions like temperature
[01:00:14] humidity tests stress tests and and
[01:00:18] that's madness very conditions and of
[01:00:21] course we are providing a failure
[01:00:24] analysis and technology analysis so if a
[01:00:27] device is destroyed the customer
[01:00:30] typically typically wants to know why it
[01:00:33] is destroyed this we are doing also and
[01:00:37] to simplify the the developments of a
[01:00:43] basic wafer we are providing supply
[01:00:48] chain management so from start from the
[01:00:51] idea of a device that is to be built to
[01:00:56] the end product
[01:00:58] a for some some photonics devices we are
[01:01:01] cooperating with en optics to integrate
[01:01:07] this electro optic pro card in a
[01:01:12] existing and tests environment so we can
[01:01:16] go on with testing electro optic devices
[01:01:20] normally it's not only optics or not
[01:01:22] only electrics here it is electro optic
[01:01:24] so we need to have electric probes we
[01:01:26] need to have optic probes they need to
[01:01:28] be aligned and this can be done in lab
[01:01:32] is 'le for 5 or 10 or 100 devices but
[01:01:36] normally we are testing chance or
[01:01:39] hundred thousands of devices so they are
[01:01:41] an active element cost time and
[01:01:43] therefore it costs money for the
[01:01:46] customer so for me there is a company
[01:01:48] that needs to be talking to you quickly
[01:01:50] because we have been talking about the
[01:01:51] challenge ramping up into production
[01:01:53] volume testing yes that you know these
[01:01:57] guys beautiful max dealing what can you
[01:02:00] do for real micro tech hi andreas yeah
[01:02:03] and I think you're familiar with us I
[01:02:05] know your colleague godfrid quite well
[01:02:08] and yeah we are the winner manufacturers
[01:02:12] of the volume burnin and life test
[01:02:14] equipment and so we're testing that
[01:02:18] really volume at the base level and you
[01:02:22] know we yeah we always try to encourage
[01:02:25] any one device manufacturer someone
[01:02:28] using a laser and their application to
[01:02:30] speak to us about design fees we're
[01:02:34] always happy to help in that way we have
[01:02:36] been together with picks up making a bit
[01:02:38] of studies of the cost of the packaging
[01:02:40] versus the cost of the testing and we do
[01:02:42] realize that people really I
[01:02:43] underestimated the cost of testing in
[01:02:46] the volume production I think there is
[01:02:48] something that we need to push a bit
[01:02:49] more so they work with an optic Royal
[01:02:51] Microtech and yellow are a great but you
[01:02:54] need to work even more you're doing a
[01:02:57] lot but even more with companies like
[01:02:58] accent I'd like fine contact I think
[01:03:00] they are looking for cooperation survey
[01:03:02] the first thing the chat asking to
[01:03:04] cooperate on this we need to find this a
[01:03:06] stronger cooperation between the
[01:03:07] companies in the automation equipment
[01:03:08] like fine tech like
[01:03:10] they can expect the next speaker is from
[01:03:12] accent M it's a good friend of mine it's
[01:03:14] Tobias to be a smaller thank you very
[01:03:16] much for being with us this afternoon
[01:03:18] thank you for being such a nice strong
[01:03:22] advocated for epic I can never repay you
[01:03:24] for that the floor the impatient with
[01:03:26] everyone my eternal friendship are yours
[01:03:29] thank you so much for Z and maybe I'm
[01:03:32] speaking for everyone here if I say
[01:03:34] thanks for organizing these events they
[01:03:36] are really fantastic so and you'reyou're
[01:03:39] making life a little bit easier during
[01:03:42] the corona crisis and giving our brain a
[01:03:44] little bit of food
[01:03:46] so yeah it's also my great pleasure to
[01:03:50] say a few words on our company XM tech
[01:03:53] let me see am i sharing the screen right
[01:03:56] yes you're perfect
[01:03:59] all right yeah so I put together a set
[01:04:02] of slides to give you well a first idea
[01:04:05] of what XM click is doing and what we
[01:04:12] and we are a company from often focusing
[01:04:16] on assembly equipment assembly and
[01:04:17] testing machines and services so our
[01:04:20] technological and excellence mainly goes
[01:04:24] back to our flexible precision of
[01:04:26] assembly machine platform which we
[01:04:28] started to develop from scratch
[01:04:29] basically yeah about a little more than
[01:04:32] five years ago and our mission as we
[01:04:36] understand it is to enhance and
[01:04:37] accelerate our customers R&D and
[01:04:39] production from our perspective our us
[01:04:43] piece of machines and services okay and
[01:05:12] well basically what would be our
[01:05:13] customers benefits
[01:05:15] I nearly a short time to market with
[01:05:18] reduced or minimal technical and
[01:05:21] financial risk
[01:05:23] so re-entry system and yeah we we can
[01:05:45] implement all kinds of different tools
[01:05:47] like for example precision dispensers
[01:05:50] for yeah super precise dispensing
[01:05:54] routines bike optics handling and what
[01:05:57] we what we have to build ourselves we do
[01:06:00] what we can buy from stock of course we
[01:06:02] buy from from suppliers so in order not
[01:06:06] to waste too much of my precious time I
[01:06:11] would like to show you a little overview
[01:06:14] of the modules that we have so basically
[01:06:16] we have this machine platform where we
[01:06:19] can put in different process plates
[01:06:20] different tool heads and also
[01:06:22] reconfigure it within short time and
[01:06:25] that's very valuable in two special
[01:06:29] scenarios firstly for ourselves if we
[01:06:31] ramp up new process processes at our
[01:06:34] premises or of course for R&D labs and
[01:06:37] institutions where one machine can do
[01:06:40] different jobs like fiber assembly 4km
[01:06:43] fibers or optics assembly basically for
[01:06:46] all kinds of system like laser
[01:06:48] projecting imaging systems and so on
[01:06:52] yeah and so what we're trying to do is
[01:06:54] also to serve already and production in
[01:06:57] an efficient way and we invert
[01:07:02] [Music]
[01:07:05] configurability quick exchange of tools
[01:07:09] and we also do have a production line
[01:07:11] which is more cost effective so we leave
[01:07:14] out the the parts which well are not
[01:07:18] used for or not necessary in a
[01:07:20] production environment but yet we keep
[01:07:24] the last interface to the components for
[01:07:27] example the grip has or the fixtures
[01:07:28] that can be exchanged to reconfigure and
[01:07:31] the production machines to star behind
[01:07:33] its products
[01:07:34] yeah and down here you see a list of
[01:07:36] basically our well our ambitions to
[01:07:39] refine basically our customer value so
[01:07:42] that you try to have cost-effective
[01:07:44] solutions we are very open to do
[01:07:47] individual solutions yeah and basically
[01:07:51] another point what we're looking for is
[01:07:55] basically to provide short development
[01:07:57] cycles and quick replication of these
[01:07:59] production machines okay
[01:08:02] now let me give you a brief overview of
[01:08:04] all the markets we are already serving
[01:08:06] as a pretty young company started in
[01:08:08] 2016 well our first machine was launched
[01:08:12] in consumer electronics back in 2015
[01:08:16] actually before the company was founded
[01:08:18] that laser assembly so fast access
[01:08:22] collimators that's the core market where
[01:08:23] we start our activities
[01:08:25] photonic integrated circuits started in
[01:08:28] 2018 imaging system also 2018 automotive
[01:08:32] applications lidar systems have been
[01:08:35] 2019 activity maybe I want to say a few
[01:08:40] words on that system and that outlines
[01:08:42] basically how agile we are so that lidar
[01:08:45] project we build a machine that can
[01:08:47] assemble solid-state lighter systems
[01:08:50] and works actually really well and it
[01:08:53] was only six months after first contact
[01:08:55] that we developed new tools so we proved
[01:08:57] in our lab the feasibility of a new
[01:08:59] metrology setup and build a new machine
[01:09:03] tool put this into the machine and then
[01:09:05] ship it to the customer of course not
[01:09:07] with the process it's an an R&D machine
[01:09:11] but we gave him basically the process
[01:09:14] building blocks and he can now refine
[01:09:16] them and yeah create also his own IP
[01:09:19] yeah and now a few words on basically
[01:09:22] our combined business model so we want
[01:09:25] to really be a partner to help people
[01:09:27] launch new products or well automate
[01:09:30] their existing production environments
[01:09:33] so we can help with prototyping service
[01:09:36] also with eventually with partnering
[01:09:37] Institute's that have our machine we can
[01:09:40] also help with the market entry so
[01:09:42] bridging this gap between let's say the
[01:09:45] first prototypes and
[01:09:47] second amount of components by using our
[01:09:49] small series production on our machine
[01:09:52] park in Yahoo that has two advantages
[01:09:54] for us we can deliver it's very robust
[01:09:58] special purpose machines and also our
[01:10:01] customers they can first see what's the
[01:10:03] result and then if you want to scale you
[01:10:06] either get your own machine or and
[01:10:08] that's also something we want to look at
[01:10:10] are we looking at very neatly we want to
[01:10:14] enable also our customers to keep on
[01:10:17] producing fabulously so contract
[01:10:19] manufacturers we're very close
[01:10:21] discussion we got first machines in the
[01:10:24] field and one has really transformed
[01:10:27] senses from the R&D labs to the
[01:10:30] production environment and maybe one
[01:10:32] quick image how does such an R&D machine
[01:10:35] look like if you now think about the
[01:10:38] process development so you have all
[01:10:40] standard tools on the left side and then
[01:10:42] you can own customized setups in there
[01:10:47] and that's best for you I'm almost at
[01:11:15] the end so for production of assembly
[01:11:19] and test automation companies I think
[01:11:21] we're we have some strong acids in terms
[01:11:25] of high mix production and turnkey
[01:11:28] solution for high volume high mix and
[01:11:30] also we want to optimize for performance
[01:11:32] and ease of use and if we look at R&D
[01:11:36] environments well we offer full access
[01:11:40] to basically the code yet offering or
[01:11:44] making the key functionalities of the
[01:11:46] Machine callable from any higher
[01:11:48] programming language that makes it
[01:11:50] really
[01:11:51] reconfigurable really easy to use and
[01:11:54] yeah enables you to use for example -
[01:11:57] let you or any higher programming
[01:11:58] language you want
[01:12:00] and quickly find your developers and who
[01:12:02] are we looking for
[01:12:03] basically the producing company is
[01:12:05] looking for a strong and agile
[01:12:06] development and automation partner
[01:12:08] developing companies needing reliable
[01:12:11] and precise open access tools for their
[01:12:14] own development and prototyping and of
[01:12:17] course are any departments and
[01:12:18] Institute's looking to license their
[01:12:20] results for example develop new
[01:12:22] processes or new tools to put in a
[01:12:24] machine for automation like this probing
[01:12:26] hard to be asked now is just a present
[01:12:29] it looks really interesting and I think
[01:12:31] would be pretty fast and integrating it
[01:12:33] whenever someone would meet that okay
[01:12:35] and that's my last slide so thanks a lot
[01:12:38] I hope I didn't take too much more than
[01:12:41] six minutes and just a little eat but
[01:12:44] it's okay so thank you very much thank
[01:12:46] you the video was great they're very
[01:12:48] nice presentations so okay you already
[01:12:51] show your last slide what kind of
[01:12:54] collaborations you are looking for so if
[01:12:57] you see the list of participants today
[01:12:59] in the meeting what kind of companies
[01:13:01] with whom you would like to collaborate
[01:13:06] now that's really a good question
[01:13:09] there's a list is very long and I think
[01:13:11] we can work together pretty much with
[01:13:14] with everyone
[01:13:15] I think what's super interesting for us
[01:13:18] and where we see we can make really a
[01:13:20] difference is to work together with
[01:13:23] basically the job shop manufacturers and
[01:13:26] the contract manufacturers that can help
[01:13:29] people to scale basically and and also I
[01:13:33] think what would be really interesting
[01:13:35] is to work together with developing
[01:13:38] partners labs are in the labs that do
[01:13:41] the process development to enable novel
[01:13:44] applications because we have that well
[01:13:47] the machine has been built to serve or
[01:13:49] to provide all those tools you need to
[01:13:52] do new of new photonics assemblies and
[01:13:55] now we just need good chefs to use it
[01:13:57] and well get there and get their
[01:14:00] products running and yeah and that's I
[01:14:04] think this back end the other back end
[01:14:07] would be of course and well and we have
[01:14:10] elaborated a real structure and
[01:14:13] well structured way to automate existing
[01:14:16] productions so we combined feasibility
[01:14:19] studies in a very well dedicated way to
[01:14:22] prove the key enabling tools that we
[01:14:24] need to do and then convert them into
[01:14:26] modules which we then put into our
[01:14:28] machine and yeah I think so
[01:14:32] the range is broad also it's there's a
[01:14:35] lot of people we are already
[01:14:36] collaborating with in this in this room
[01:14:39] so this is really nice it's a little bit
[01:14:41] family meeting
[01:14:42] but yeah well that's that's basically
[01:14:47] probably do the first thing that come in
[01:14:50] my mind okay questions from the audience
[01:14:52] to the views it's not a few questions in
[01:15:00] get you in the unity of universe so
[01:15:03] let's start a MUX you know how mark said
[01:15:07] from epoch actually quality with epoch
[01:15:10] does the Machine need highly qualified
[01:15:12] staff to operate it well yes and no so I
[01:15:19] think when you go to the R&D expert mode
[01:15:23] and you want to do the higher level
[01:15:25] programming then of course you need
[01:15:28] really skilled people but if you operate
[01:15:30] it in the production mode well there's
[01:15:34] also been a lot of work we put in over
[01:15:37] the past year I would say to ease the
[01:15:39] use of the Machine basically and enable
[01:15:43] it for basically just trained operators
[01:15:46] so equip a machine with trace choose a
[01:15:48] recipe press Start
[01:15:50] that's basically the two operation mode
[01:15:51] in contrast to really the specialized
[01:15:55] higher-level mode but also there is two
[01:15:59] ways there is one but I would say
[01:16:02] reduced complexity mode where you can
[01:16:04] have buttons and control the machine
[01:16:07] operations singularly and then we give
[01:16:11] some some prepared recipes in Python for
[01:16:14] example that you can run certain
[01:16:18] routines and adjust those routines so
[01:16:21] yeah it's I would say the variation can
[01:16:24] be quite broad
[01:16:26] so if you have a very skilled person
[01:16:28] that can do the sophisticated
[01:16:30] programming that's of course a benefit
[01:16:32] but yeah we try to make it easy another
[01:16:35] question coming from an disagree he's
[01:16:37] won the request type of collaboration
[01:16:38] that's a very important he got the topic
[01:16:40] of a big good thing of collaboration are
[01:16:42] you looking as an automation partner
[01:16:45] well I would say the question it depends
[01:16:49] on what is our partner basically we're
[01:16:52] discussing this with so if it's an R&D
[01:16:54] Institute we could think of developing
[01:16:56] new tools new modules to put into our
[01:16:59] machine license them from the Army
[01:17:01] Institute and then bring them make them
[01:17:03] available to the market yeah or if it's
[01:17:08] basically a company an automation
[01:17:11] company sorry a job shop manufacturing
[01:17:14] company then of course our idea would be
[01:17:16] to put machines into their their work
[01:17:20] their their shop floor to them
[01:17:23] well maybe show the feasibility on our
[01:17:25] side make the process development maybe
[01:17:28] at a third-party site so some some
[01:17:32] components there are some some companies
[01:17:35] that really focus on this process
[01:17:36] development and then transfer it to well
[01:17:39] to the volume production facilities for
[01:17:42] now we do the process developing for
[01:17:44] ourselves but we really see and we're
[01:17:46] absolutely open to that to train the
[01:17:48] companies that buy our machines
[01:17:50] sometimes have them two months and our
[01:17:53] premises and then we train them on site
[01:17:56] they can start operating the machine in
[01:17:57] our machine hall and then they go out
[01:17:59] Nick Daman from is looking forward to
[01:18:02] collaborate with you he's also
[01:18:03] collaborating with many equipment
[01:18:04] manufacturers so good but I have another
[01:18:06] question in general no just for you
[01:18:08] comfort everyone but I'm gonna point
[01:18:09] that pink card because thinking has the
[01:18:11] answer we have the ax castellón from the
[01:18:14] Swiss Center of electronics
[01:18:16] microelectronics a good good guy hi hi
[01:18:18] Jax he's wondering about you hermetic
[01:18:21] packaging is their solutions offering
[01:18:24] vacuum hermetic packaging typically we
[01:18:32] are in the field of semi-automatic and
[01:18:34] hermetically packaging and aromatic
[01:18:38] packages is mostly
[01:18:40] youth in space application so it's low
[01:18:43] quantities but there are possibilities
[01:18:47] to complete hermetic sealed package so
[01:18:50] you can work also a lot in day in the
[01:18:52] automotive in the aerospace you think
[01:18:54] that hermetic solely only for space let
[01:19:04] me phrase it like this the real
[01:19:06] applications that are out there are in
[01:19:08] space but we are working on
[01:19:09] semi-automatic and the magnetic packages
[01:19:11] for the other markers and every market
[01:19:15] has has its own limits and its own
[01:19:19] qualification for emetic packages so it
[01:19:22] differs a little from from market to
[01:19:25] market
[01:19:25] automotive it is different from space
[01:19:27] they did the beautiful part of this
[01:19:29] meeting is that we have the whole supply
[01:19:30] chain here and we also have young
[01:19:32] McKenzie from the European Space Agency
[01:19:35] I don't know here me well yeah how are
[01:19:37] you doing today I think he's yes Ariane
[01:19:41] fine I'm fine young Emir in the same
[01:19:44] village in the Netherlands he's not like
[01:19:46] we have been discussing in the past
[01:19:48] quite a lot about the need for hermetic
[01:19:50] bucketing in space applications is there
[01:19:53] anything you can provide to the whole
[01:19:55] supply chain of photonic into the
[01:19:57] circuit packaging today on the need of
[01:19:59] the space when it comes to packaging
[01:20:00] solutions look I mean today we're
[01:20:03] interested to understand whether we do
[01:20:05] indeed need to romantic packaged
[01:20:07] components or whether we can we can
[01:20:09] exist with non magically packaged
[01:20:11] components because this can reduce the
[01:20:14] cost endlessly and we're interested in
[01:20:16] cost reduction as well so that tries to
[01:20:20] try and understand that we really do
[01:20:22] need these dramatic packaged components
[01:20:23] you know today we are pushing the new
[01:20:26] space which is to try to approach the
[01:20:29] feeling of using technology from down
[01:20:31] under all the way up there and for that
[01:20:34] we have a whole separate online
[01:20:35] technology meeting on photonics for new
[01:20:37] space in which we are gonna be low so
[01:20:39] with the hermetic packaging we have a
[01:20:41] question from Glen George from Bay
[01:20:44] photonics clinic are you doing Glen can
[01:20:49] you hear me I heard a sorry I had to
[01:20:52] unmute
[01:20:54] Yeah Yeah right yeah doing well thanks I
[01:20:58] was just just wanted to point out there
[01:21:00] that baby tonics have a hermetic vacuum
[01:21:03] packaging solution which is been
[01:21:05] developed for cryogenic quantum devices
[01:21:07] but it is obviously equally applicable
[01:21:10] to any space or other special solutions
[01:21:13] I think as as has been mentioned it's
[01:21:15] not a general high-volume solution
[01:21:19] specialist applications is very
[01:21:23] applicable when you talk about quantum
[01:21:26] devices to comic-con to cloves 1/2
[01:21:28] sensors this is being a small volume but
[01:21:32] there I had we had a meeting the first
[01:21:35] online technology meetings but some
[01:21:36] quantum sensors or her companies like
[01:21:38] plx talking about the volumes that they
[01:21:40] are demanding and these are very very
[01:21:42] high volumes do you have the supply
[01:21:44] chain to ramp up the hermetic packaging
[01:21:47] yes the package has been the this
[01:21:52] packaging solution is being devised as
[01:21:55] part of an innovate UK funded program
[01:21:58] which is aiming to provide
[01:22:03] commercialization of quantum devices
[01:22:05] therefore has been devised with
[01:22:08] scalability in mind there was blenders
[01:22:11] from Bay photonics an awesome company
[01:22:13] always looking for collaboration so
[01:22:15] you're looking for an ideal packaging
[01:22:17] partner on high-end solutions that's the
[01:22:20] way to go pay for an excellent thank you
[01:22:21] very much for being with us this
[01:22:23] afternoon and we move ahead with your
[01:22:25] program in the next person well the way
[01:22:26] from the ling a personal friend Herman
[01:22:28] Moss hey how are you doing today I am
[01:22:31] doing very good what about you
[01:22:33] I'm doing great when I see you smile
[01:22:35] like that I'm feeling even better the
[01:22:37] presentation of everyone is yours ok I
[01:22:40] hope I don't screw it up here ok I hope
[01:22:44] everybody can see it now so hello
[01:22:47] everybody and cozy and thank you very
[01:22:50] much for the invitation and organizing
[01:22:52] this very interesting online meeting ok
[01:23:01] ok I think most of you probably already
[01:23:03] know our company fine take
[01:23:07] know as yet actually we are a German
[01:23:09] company we are based in Berlin we were
[01:23:12] founded 28 years ago in 1992 basically
[01:23:16] it's a story like a typical yeah Silicon
[01:23:19] Valley story actually we started not in
[01:23:21] a garage but in an apartment today we
[01:23:25] have about 200 employees worldwide six
[01:23:29] subsidiaries on three continents our
[01:23:33] business is as you already so or
[01:23:37] probably can see we are developing and
[01:23:40] producing advanced micro assembly
[01:23:43] systems mainly submicron bonding systems
[01:23:47] for photonics packaging as well as
[01:23:49] advanced rework system for high end
[01:23:51] applications such as for example a mini
[01:23:54] LED which is currently very hot topic
[01:23:56] these days so far we have ships and
[01:24:00] install about 3200 systems worldwide in
[01:24:04] over 40 different countries and from our
[01:24:08] product range when we are talking about
[01:24:09] micro assembly this is what we can see
[01:24:11] here we have it from what I am puts a
[01:24:13] total manual system up to a high-volume
[01:24:17] production system which is fully
[01:24:19] automatic of course as you can see see
[01:24:23] placement echo AC is in accordance what
[01:24:26] see photonics industry typically once
[01:24:28] usually 0.5 micrometer or even better
[01:24:33] systems are available as I said as a
[01:24:35] total manual system which you see here
[01:24:38] on the left side you see lambda which is
[01:24:40] our entry-level model so this is very
[01:24:43] interesting for companies that are
[01:24:45] invoice R&D you are startups that you
[01:24:47] have to make their own demonstrators
[01:24:48] it's a very beginning so next system
[01:24:51] sign would be already says a signal this
[01:24:53] is what I would say semi automatic
[01:24:55] system as it already has a vision system
[01:24:58] so is the operator King Freyne says the
[01:25:01] vision system and sensor Basin system is
[01:25:03] guiding the operator to see place
[01:25:05] positions this little smile is so in the
[01:25:10] next system which is already for
[01:25:13] prototype to production or a small
[01:25:16] volume production would be safe enter to
[01:25:18] this placement a crazy
[01:25:21] of point three micrometer you can pick
[01:25:24] and place the eyes from Revit XG of X
[01:25:27] wafers and it has multi chip
[01:25:29] capabilities offers all the technologies
[01:25:32] you can imagine and for aya volume
[01:25:35] production it is one of our latest
[01:25:37] models it's a fine x6 ps3 which has a
[01:25:40] you can place a crazy of 3 micrometer it
[01:25:46] offered it offers different modes for
[01:25:48] for speed and accuracy as most photonic
[01:25:52] packages have dies that need to be
[01:25:54] placed very precisely such as pixel
[01:25:57] arrays for the die the race and dies
[01:25:59] actually where speed is probably more
[01:26:00] important such as LEDs or tears of
[01:26:03] course it has full multi chip capability
[01:26:06] a very large work area
[01:26:07] and you can choose from a variety of
[01:26:12] modules right this set can operate for
[01:26:24] example cz lambda or as a Sigma or the
[01:26:27] fender tools you can operate flexibility
[01:26:35] and can develop actually from tabletop
[01:26:38] models into volume production so very
[01:26:43] interesting for our commercial customers
[01:26:46] probably as a technologies method
[01:26:48] processes and components technologies
[01:26:51] and methods we offer basically
[01:26:52] everything from and he's if bonding
[01:26:55] including you be sewing or even most
[01:26:58] legal Jim but we also have it for the
[01:27:01] high frequency we also have it
[01:27:04] there's no no foil for example if you're
[01:27:08] talking about laser bars
[01:27:11] we have several compression bonding
[01:27:14] bonding and active alignment active
[01:27:19] alignment here means by an external
[01:27:21] positioning control set basically tells
[01:27:24] the Machine in which direction it should
[01:27:27] move then from the processes everything
[01:27:29] what you know actually from face up face
[01:27:31] down depending on you on your package
[01:27:33] and your type
[01:27:34] multi-chip of course chip on suspects up
[01:27:37] Mount and Chippewa sent from the
[01:27:41] component side actually we can process
[01:27:43] or have already processed almost
[01:27:45] everything you can imagine so from the
[01:27:48] smallest little finger place relative to
[01:27:51] each other to large arrays or the more
[01:27:56] exotic components like pixels or leaders
[01:28:00] you also a very good when it comes to
[01:28:03] page two lenses but no active alignment
[01:28:05] but this passive alignment so I prepared
[01:28:08] a short video clip in the hopes that
[01:28:10] this works this is what you can see I
[01:28:15] know it lets me down very good this is
[01:28:18] what I was expecting
[01:28:29] so let's make it this way I hope you can
[01:28:31] see that so I hear you have to recognize
[01:28:33] in the lens the eyes of the land
[01:28:36] basically I think I'm a cheat you may
[01:28:55] need to change the sharing screen I'm
[01:28:58] currently trying to do that it's not the
[01:29:05] same that maybe you can explain what we
[01:29:07] go see at the video
[01:29:08] well basically the video I can probably
[01:29:11] share it in a different way later on
[01:29:15] shows how to pick up al to look at the
[01:29:20] lens to recognize see you see eyes with
[01:29:27] in the lens so can you see it now datian
[01:29:40] stops sharing screen reaches screen okay
[01:29:53] let me try to fix it and probably show
[01:29:55] it to you later
[01:29:56] basically it shows how to recognize the
[01:29:59] eyes of the lens and then it should see
[01:30:04] my screen again how the system is
[01:30:09] recognizing actually see excellent photo
[01:30:13] diet bars dispensing CUV epoxy adjusting
[01:30:18] the lens accordingly and you will like
[01:30:25] to use the adhesive precise labeling so
[01:30:32] the best coping arity intercept
[01:30:34] micrometer range so repeatability is
[01:30:38] about 16 meters high
[01:30:40] ability control it's not important for
[01:31:01] us and King Barrett okay good so it's
[01:31:14] the basic question which Jose is always
[01:31:17] asking what we can do for you what you
[01:31:19] can do for us basically what we can do
[01:31:22] for you is we can bond your samples very
[01:31:25] often startups have to show some payment
[01:31:29] writers to the to say investors but they
[01:31:34] don't have the funds at the beginning to
[01:31:35] buy the equipment so we can do that for
[01:31:37] them of course we also came upon samples
[01:31:41] they're very interested in in buying see
[01:31:47] equipment
[01:32:01] it's great no you can see them hmm
[01:32:06] okay I'm sorry this is somehow didn't
[01:32:09] work as they wanted so you can see
[01:32:11] actually a recognition of Vic's
[01:32:13] lymphedema ray it just things a lens on
[01:32:15] the bone tool accordingly or actually in
[01:32:17] this case we are adjusting the table to
[01:32:20] place the lens switch on your you being
[01:32:24] light 2qz adhesive and after minimum
[01:32:34] time actually which is determined by the
[01:32:35] adhesive it's done what we can do for
[01:32:45] you and again we can Co develop a
[01:32:59] process together means customers if they
[01:33:01] have something totally new in mind and
[01:33:03] we also offer to produce small lots of
[01:33:08] devices in our own clean rooms on our
[01:33:11] demo equipment so next to our die attach
[01:33:15] and micros family systems we also have a
[01:33:17] wire bond there many viable knife to say
[01:33:21] all gone there and she first tested so
[01:33:24] we can basically makes a basic assembly
[01:33:27] of photonic components from from start
[01:33:31] to end and do for us please in once at
[01:33:37] an early stage if you want to work with
[01:33:39] us it is very helpful if we team up as
[01:33:43] early as possible because if you develop
[01:33:46] your component over say one or two years
[01:33:49] or even longer than that and you will
[01:33:56] come to us and say hey can you offer us
[01:33:58] an equipment probably have to say yeah
[01:34:01] okay can you come back I don't know
[01:34:02] seven months or probably even years
[01:34:04] later so it's better to develop set hand
[01:34:08] in hand it's the same actually it's also
[01:34:09] when it comes to to where process
[01:34:13] developments
[01:34:14] which you want us to do for you and of
[01:34:18] course very much welcome to come to us
[01:34:21] if you're looking for a tailor-made
[01:34:22] solution basically something's that you
[01:34:24] cannot find anywhere else in the market
[01:34:26] so that's basically the end of my
[01:34:29] presentation
[01:34:30] I'm very sorry said I screwed up this is
[01:34:33] a little bit in the middle meeting was
[01:34:37] great thank you very much for a nice
[01:34:39] presentation Herman
[01:34:40] okay so then from the companies that are
[01:34:42] now in the storeroom
[01:34:44] whether they the group of companies say
[01:34:47] with which you would like to work I
[01:34:50] wouldn't say I want to address it to a
[01:34:52] special group of course we a little bit
[01:34:56] hesitating to workers competitors but
[01:35:00] everybody who is interested and who
[01:35:01] wants to balance photonic components is
[01:35:06] very welcome to talk with us a question
[01:35:12] I'm hearing today from your from Manor
[01:35:15] sky your maybe you want to ask did it me
[01:35:21] yes hello mr. Moss hello my main
[01:35:24] question is you have some different
[01:35:26] alignment Precision's so I suppose it
[01:35:29] with the alignment and it's active
[01:35:31] alignment that there is also a time
[01:35:33] related to this well the active
[01:35:36] alignment as I said this is using
[01:35:37] outside control we don't have it within
[01:35:39] our machine in this case the outside
[01:35:44] controller is telling our machine where
[01:35:49] it wants a bond head or in this case a
[01:35:50] table to move for a passive alignment it
[01:35:55] is very fast as you could see the video
[01:35:59] was taken actually with some dummy
[01:36:01] material as we cannot show customer
[01:36:03] material but the timing actually is is
[01:36:07] the same so long as this basically to to
[01:36:11] snap using adhesive to recognize the
[01:36:14] lens to adjust see excellent photo diet
[01:36:18] to the lens because we have a moving
[01:36:21] table not a moving head is a matter of
[01:36:24] well it doesn't take
[01:36:28] much longer Sims and one or two seconds
[01:36:30] at most it also depends on how many
[01:36:33] channels you have you can wait for
[01:36:35] example if you want to have more
[01:36:37] emphasis on the whistles you can do that
[01:36:40] by for example recognizing two or four
[01:36:42] bears on the photo diet site maybe only
[01:36:45] one or two so it's up to you what you
[01:36:47] want to do with it you are free to
[01:36:49] program that okay thanks okay thank you
[01:36:55] very much and maybe now is a good moment
[01:36:57] talking about the optical alignment to
[01:37:00] introduce a one of the disc ears here
[01:37:03] Carlos from icon photonics maybe it's a
[01:37:09] good moment for you to introduce
[01:37:10] yourself and what your company is doing
[01:37:12] yeah thank you thank you all for the
[01:37:17] nice nice interesting talks we are a
[01:37:21] spin-off company startup company in
[01:37:24] Paris east of Paris in France and we we
[01:37:28] do a monolithic integrated micro optics
[01:37:31] and also to to help to fiber copying
[01:37:35] issues our vision is to bring somehow
[01:37:39] optics directly through the aperture
[01:37:42] level of the chip such as pixels or or
[01:37:44] detectors and then somehow provide a
[01:37:48] vertical taper waveguide on the top of
[01:37:51] these devices in order to do two things
[01:37:54] one is to to allow to shrink down active
[01:37:58] areas on the detection side make it
[01:38:01] high-speed devices without losing the
[01:38:03] tolerance that we need for four or five
[01:38:06] a company so I think you can become
[01:38:08] somehow complementary solution to the to
[01:38:12] the to these nice equipments and nice
[01:38:14] nice tools that we we are discussing
[01:38:16] right now okay thank you very much
[01:38:20] Carlos and also I told you that I that
[01:38:23] we we have here a very nice
[01:38:25] representation of the supply chain and
[01:38:26] regarding foundry say I would like now
[01:38:30] Michael from Lyon pick from Switzerland
[01:38:34] a Michael would you like to spring what
[01:38:37] do you say like enlighten tech doing
[01:38:39] yeah a large tech we we are
[01:38:42] manufacturing pardon to to manufacture
[01:38:46] photonic integrated circuits based on
[01:38:48] silicon nitride material and as this
[01:38:52] material itself is it's a passive
[01:38:56] platform we're also highly interested in
[01:38:59] in optical packaging especially in in
[01:39:02] hybrid integration like how can we
[01:39:05] combine the the very good performances
[01:39:08] of passive platform with with active
[01:39:12] elements and and we have we do have
[01:39:17] components in our platform that that
[01:39:19] make that easier for example bonding
[01:39:21] windows or spot size converters at at
[01:39:24] the edge of the chip but in the end we
[01:39:27] we always need a partners who who
[01:39:31] package the chips in the end for the
[01:39:33] customer okay thank you Michael
[01:39:37] so ok plenty of a collaboration
[01:39:39] potential collaborations here let's move
[01:39:42] in the program so I would like to
[01:39:44] announce the next speaker George from
[01:39:46] first sensor all oh ok so dirty if you
[01:39:51] can share your screen
[01:39:52] yep I disconnected all the other screens
[01:39:56] so hopefully everything checks out in
[01:39:58] this case let me know if you see
[01:40:03] everything yes perfect ok perfect so
[01:40:06] thank you all for the invitation
[01:40:08] obviously
[01:40:09] so I'm gigabyte from first sensor a
[01:40:11] German company I'm just a brief overview
[01:40:14] we our headquarters are in Berlin we're
[01:40:17] having close to a thousand employees
[01:40:19] what our colleagues in Berlin are doing
[01:40:21] is they have a semiconductor wafer fab
[01:40:24] for photo diodes and pressure sensors
[01:40:26] and we're I'm speaking from is the
[01:40:29] packaging site in Dresden where we focus
[01:40:33] on packaging of image sensors as one
[01:40:36] part of our business and therefore we're
[01:40:40] operating in the cleanroom
[01:40:41] we're having customers from all over the
[01:40:44] world we're collaborating with our
[01:40:45] regional teams in order to be as close
[01:40:48] as we can to to our customers
[01:40:51] our focus markets are industrial
[01:40:53] automotive and medical and then on the
[01:40:57] on the other side as what first Center
[01:40:59] offers as customer specific or
[01:41:01] off-the-shelf products is pressure
[01:41:04] sensors flow sensors inertial sensors
[01:41:06] and various optical sensors we're quite
[01:41:10] strong in automotive lida applications
[01:41:13] with our own receivers which can be
[01:41:15] tailor-made for customer specific
[01:41:17] applications so to focus on what do we
[01:41:21] do here in racing everything we do is
[01:41:24] well focused on on the customer we're
[01:41:28] offering four core technologies
[01:41:32] it starts with dicing the wafer which
[01:41:35] comes from the customer or sometimes
[01:41:37] from first sensor itself there we go
[01:41:40] from two inch wafer dicing up to twelve
[01:41:42] inch wafer dicing we have a special
[01:41:45] cleaning process in in the equipment to
[01:41:48] make sure that you know there's always
[01:41:50] residue and when you want to take your
[01:41:52] wafer out of the wafer dicing you want
[01:41:54] to make sure that it remains clean so
[01:41:56] you don't have a debris coming through
[01:41:59] the process and eventually hindering
[01:42:01] then the performance or you have a drop
[01:42:03] in yield
[01:42:04] once the wafers been diced and inspected
[01:42:07] we go forward to do die bonding which we
[01:42:10] do on various forms so you can be on
[01:42:13] ceramic packages you can be on organic
[01:42:16] fo4 materials sometimes metal it depends
[01:42:19] on the customer requirements this is
[01:42:22] done in a clean class 100 for the
[01:42:25] ceramics clean class 1000 for the FFO
[01:42:28] material so we like to keep the separate
[01:42:30] in order to avoid cross contamination
[01:42:32] from the material itself what can we do
[01:42:35] really well is our dye placement
[01:42:37] accuracy is pretty good we found a way
[01:42:41] to do yeah low warpage die bonding so
[01:42:45] what you see here in this demo image is
[01:42:47] on the top of these two pictures it was
[01:42:52] a simulation we did the customer want
[01:42:54] you to have many more flatness tests and
[01:42:56] I think 30 microns peak to peak on the
[01:42:58] sensor which is like 80 by 10
[01:43:01] millimeters a little bit bigger than
[01:43:03] that and on an organic
[01:43:05] so you can imagine the PCB is warped and
[01:43:09] the customer didn't want to have a
[01:43:10] warped sensor at the end so we had to
[01:43:12] develop a special dye bonding process
[01:43:15] with various adhesives and combinations
[01:43:18] of these Center curing regime in order
[01:43:20] to make sure that the sensor remains
[01:43:21] flat not only at you know zero hour but
[01:43:24] also under temperature load when the
[01:43:27] camera is working in this case wire
[01:43:30] bonding there is not too much to say it
[01:43:32] works we have experts on the case to
[01:43:36] make you know small loops long loops a
[01:43:38] lot of wire bonds on the sensor we have
[01:43:42] aluminum and gold wire bonding and we
[01:43:44] make sure that we stay out reliable
[01:43:46] through the process so we do you know
[01:43:48] the regular protests and reliability
[01:43:52] research in order to make sure that even
[01:43:54] when the substrates are a little bit
[01:43:57] difficult at some times that the wire
[01:44:00] bond connection remains as stable as it
[01:44:02] can be and then you have your die and
[01:44:04] wire bonded censor everything is optical
[01:44:07] inspected and yeah then you attach a
[01:44:11] copper glass this can be done either
[01:44:13] with with the sensory tests upfront to
[01:44:15] make sure that the cover glass which is
[01:44:18] inspected by operators is yeah free of
[01:44:22] any intakes any scratches and it takes
[01:44:24] any particle counts you don't want to
[01:44:26] have on your sensor and then you attach
[01:44:30] it either on the ceramic substrate or
[01:44:32] you do that with a frame glass
[01:44:34] combination so you essentially built
[01:44:35] inverted cavity to have the sensor
[01:44:39] closed off and this is also tested
[01:44:43] obviously the process developed and once
[01:44:46] you you have this finished you have a
[01:44:48] relatively cost-effective approach to
[01:44:50] have an image sensor board ready for the
[01:44:53] customer to be highly integrated for the
[01:44:55] camera so obviously they have the
[01:44:57] advantages over ceramics while in some
[01:44:59] other cases you need to do ceramics what
[01:45:01] we can do is we have a conformal coating
[01:45:04] equipment for for some equipment which
[01:45:07] requires conformal coating and once this
[01:45:11] has been done we're able to do customer
[01:45:13] specific sensor tests the test equipment
[01:45:16] is either developed by ourselves or
[01:45:19] in combination with with the customer to
[01:45:22] them provide a final tested image sensor
[01:45:24] board or an image sensor itself
[01:45:27] so as a as a quick quick wrap-up
[01:45:31] everything we do is customer specific so
[01:45:34] we offer the range of technologies which
[01:45:37] the customers obviously utilizing on our
[01:45:39] end we like to work with the customers
[01:45:41] early as we can
[01:45:43] you know usually the customers see the
[01:45:46] sensor design hours or a camera
[01:45:48] manufacturer or someone in between so
[01:45:51] the target is we know how to package
[01:45:54] sensors the customers usually likes
[01:45:57] either to build a camera or to design a
[01:45:59] sensor and we like to bring our
[01:46:00] expertise in because you know there are
[01:46:02] certain design rules and certain things
[01:46:04] you can adjust in order to have a very
[01:46:07] effective build at the end of the day as
[01:46:11] we also do automotive we automotive
[01:46:14] certified eitf 16949 since since a very
[01:46:18] long time now
[01:46:19] and at the end of the day if the
[01:46:22] relationship with the customer the
[01:46:24] interaction with our engineers and
[01:46:26] experts who work out really well yeah we
[01:46:29] usually succeed with high yields the
[01:46:32] reliability is also usually on the top
[01:46:35] end and that actually results in a cost
[01:46:37] effective way to built the sensor that's
[01:46:40] the seven minute you can't don't die
[01:46:44] which is great everybody was paying a
[01:46:47] lot of attention which is fantastic and
[01:46:48] the first time that we deal with the
[01:46:50] with the back end which is great because
[01:46:52] we didn't deal with that until now the
[01:46:55] question to start this of course what
[01:46:58] can you do for them for you what can we
[01:47:01] do for them oh we can work with them to
[01:47:04] integrate their test equipment on our
[01:47:06] site to have a one hand approach
[01:47:08] essentially or they can build custom
[01:47:13] specific sent test equipment to utilize
[01:47:17] the stand for the and test essentially
[01:47:20] okay so we have a few questions in the
[01:47:24] audience but first I want to give the
[01:47:27] floor to a few of the companies from in
[01:47:29] the back end and one of those is Ivana
[01:47:31] take
[01:47:32] knowledge ease you have a fantastic
[01:47:34] background behind you the says if we
[01:47:36] can't make no meat a silicon wafer cut
[01:47:38] what did you guys do whatever now we are
[01:47:42] developing processing of hard and
[01:47:45] brittle materials generally for
[01:47:49] semiconductor materials here we have our
[01:47:51] last achievement silicon dicing with any
[01:47:59] thickness in fact for quality as you see
[01:48:04] this is SEM image actually this is
[01:48:06] really much better the light animation
[01:48:10] but in fact optical image also not so
[01:48:14] that and we get almost I can show some
[01:48:19] background if you allow me I can give
[01:48:25] you a few seconds of course yes okay
[01:48:27] yeah okay you can see them at the moment
[01:48:35] you can screen yeah okay you can see
[01:48:42] left side after dicing and right side
[01:48:47] after breaking yeah surface of the
[01:48:51] silicon almost no any no any damage on
[01:48:59] the on the surface you can see here here
[01:49:06] is different thicknesses 200 backside
[01:49:11] 200 side view 200 also here more
[01:49:20] magnification also also this is some
[01:49:24] kind of up to seven hundred micrometers
[01:49:31] silicon die sink results and we now
[01:49:41] oh I have followed your company ready
[01:49:43] for for a few years we actually had
[01:49:45] dinner together
[01:49:46] you have actually been making fantastic
[01:49:49] fantastic great work on the silicon
[01:49:51] ascribing let's hear from vomiting
[01:49:52] potential customers partners
[01:49:55] I'm deck thank you very much for being
[01:49:57] with us this afternoon you can with the
[01:50:00] key partners in epic in the back end
[01:50:02] process what did you think of the
[01:50:04] meeting so far and what kind of
[01:50:05] companies can you cooperate thank you
[01:50:08] very much for the introduction so my
[01:50:11] name is andreas Freitag and I just
[01:50:13] started to work with M Tech a half year
[01:50:15] ago so I'm pretty new to the business I
[01:50:20] saw from the talks
[01:50:23] many of our we have some suppliers in
[01:50:26] the group we have some customers in the
[01:50:28] group also some competitors so it's a
[01:50:31] broad range of companies very
[01:50:33] interesting talks very thank you very
[01:50:35] much for me my paying attention to be
[01:50:37] honest was to get an overview about the
[01:50:41] processes which we partially integrate
[01:50:45] or which we costly work with my
[01:50:49] background also is I was working before
[01:50:51] switching to two M Tech I was working
[01:50:55] for EMU in in Dortmund in the field of
[01:50:58] micro objects called our lasers so I'm
[01:51:02] also a little familiar with with
[01:51:05] photonic applications and I'm trying to
[01:51:08] get out a bad idea where we can also
[01:51:12] find new customers new applications for
[01:51:15] technologies I'm taking is the key
[01:51:17] company having epic for the market
[01:51:18] process but at this moment I really
[01:51:21] wanted to give the floor to the key
[01:51:23] company having a peak on linking the
[01:51:25] semi and the photon is born and thus a
[01:51:27] AC and that for that we have Brad factor
[01:51:29] with us my friend Brad thank you very
[01:51:32] much for being with us this afternoon
[01:51:33] for having so many people waiting to
[01:51:36] tell us for you to tell us what did you
[01:51:38] don't know what the meeting so far and a
[01:51:39] complete like you see a giant like I see
[01:51:41] what kind of collaborations can you make
[01:51:42] with this community okay first of all
[01:51:45] can you hear me okay loud and clear okay
[01:51:48] thank you for allowing me to say a short
[01:51:53] word first of all I really have
[01:51:54] that epic has made the turn to web-based
[01:51:58] seminar so quickly and it's been very
[01:52:01] interesting and useful although somewhat
[01:52:04] difficult to do at home when you have
[01:52:05] the kids at home and other other
[01:52:08] distractions so ase actually finds
[01:52:12] itself at a at a juncture where we're
[01:52:15] seeing a lot of demand in the photonics
[01:52:18] area especially for data center
[01:52:22] transceiver there's some big players in
[01:52:24] the market we're in contact with several
[01:52:27] of them they're actually not in my in my
[01:52:30] area but I follow the technology and I
[01:52:33] would like to say that one of the big
[01:52:34] challenges for us is to get to the point
[01:52:39] where can you hear me okay comes in yes
[01:52:42] yes okay good
[01:52:43] there are everybody else can can you
[01:52:45] hear me get to wake up get your really
[01:52:47] wet yeah get to the tipping point where
[01:52:51] if we're going to make large investments
[01:52:54] in automated equipment for wafer probing
[01:53:00] so wait for level probing of optical
[01:53:03] devices automated alignment and this
[01:53:06] kind of thing we really need to be sure
[01:53:08] that a multi-million dollar investment
[01:53:10] is going to be robust in a high-volume
[01:53:14] manufacturing environment and today I
[01:53:18] can say that from a Rd perspective yes
[01:53:22] everyone is is behind it
[01:53:24] but from the perspective of an executive
[01:53:27] that has to sign a large check they're
[01:53:30] thinking hmm am I sure that I'm gonna
[01:53:32] get a return on investment and so this
[01:53:35] is a given the current environment and
[01:53:38] the co-created and things like that this
[01:53:40] is something that yeah makes I think
[01:53:44] executives a little bit as it hesitant
[01:53:46] to release a lot of money in in
[01:53:50] high-volume manufacturing investment in
[01:53:54] this particular sector in the sector of
[01:53:56] packaging of photonic devices I have to
[01:53:59] say that pre coordinating of course I
[01:54:01] have to say that have seen a lot of
[01:54:04] invest
[01:54:05] coming I have seen a lot of success
[01:54:07] stories I have seen a lot of big
[01:54:08] acquisitions by by companies like
[01:54:11] rosenberger that acquire eyeful tech so
[01:54:13] I think we are in a in the right path I
[01:54:16] don't think we we have to always be a
[01:54:17] bit concerned I think we are okay I'm
[01:54:19] not criticizing anything that's
[01:54:21] happening it's just giving a point of
[01:54:23] view from a company that has the
[01:54:27] semiconductor background but not
[01:54:29] necessarily the photonics background the
[01:54:34] other thing that I found really exciting
[01:54:35] and I'll leave my comments at that is
[01:54:38] that other applications such as lidar
[01:54:43] other sensing applications are going to
[01:54:46] be lets say an offshoot of silicon
[01:54:49] photonics that could lead to a lot of
[01:54:51] future devices and future business so so
[01:54:55] we're excited about that I do expect
[01:54:57] that it's going to take another few
[01:54:58] years for the the echo system to develop
[01:55:02] bone on that but that's something that
[01:55:04] we're excited and you would see a bright
[01:55:08] future there as well for the companies
[01:55:10] who are looking at a at the volume
[01:55:12] testing solutions Brad is the key entry
[01:55:14] point for the semi market so this is a
[01:55:16] key person that they want to introduce
[01:55:18] to many of you and the interactions of
[01:55:20] line and when we get the floor to the
[01:55:22] success story of photonic either the
[01:55:24] circuits outside telecom that I know of
[01:55:27] PIM thank you very much ring with us
[01:55:29] this afternoon you look happy
[01:55:31] you look a little bit tongue you look
[01:55:33] healthy I think they did the regression
[01:55:35] at home is fitting you really won then
[01:55:39] where are you yeah thank you for saying
[01:55:41] yeah I'm sitting in there with my back
[01:55:43] in the Sun in the kitchen actually you
[01:55:49] look fantastic
[01:55:50] the floor and the attention of everyone
[01:55:52] is yours tell us about technologies you
[01:55:57] sure the most delicate touch at the
[01:55:59] bottom of the screen share screen yes
[01:56:10] okay it's not on screen no yet you go to
[01:56:15] screen mode
[01:56:17] total left presentation mode yeah I know
[01:56:22] but there's this bar with you your heads
[01:56:26] in boob us move our heads we don't want
[01:56:31] to be on the way I am very excited to
[01:56:33] have Tecna be with us today
[01:56:37] huge huge advance returning to the
[01:56:40] circus I started working with with with
[01:56:42] beam already over the decade ago and we
[01:56:44] were talking to two different foundries
[01:56:46] with the smart photonics looking for the
[01:56:48] size that he managed to be patient
[01:56:50] enough to be one of the first ones to
[01:56:52] put on in 3d photo any device in the
[01:56:54] market then he couldn't find packaging
[01:56:56] any worse okay he made his sole
[01:56:58] packaging company and now he put
[01:57:01] everything together and he managed to
[01:57:02] have a very big smile because of the
[01:57:04] recent acquisition or recent sale of the
[01:57:07] company beam you can go to I think it
[01:57:10] you go in the bottom of the screen do
[01:57:11] you have two screens I have two screens
[01:57:14] here just like the other one but you're
[01:57:20] on my second screen so they will all be
[01:57:24] on the first one you'll be your first
[01:57:26] priority today when you when you do that
[01:57:33] I think for those of you who do you have
[01:57:35] the chance to go to Alma and you will be
[01:57:37] amazed
[01:57:38] oh how fast yes here we are we're in
[01:57:42] business
[01:57:44] okay thanks for your help today and I'm
[01:57:48] going to try to be the only one that
[01:57:50] does it in six minutes now so we're
[01:57:52] trying to tell you what we do in micro
[01:57:54] assembly and testing of integrated
[01:57:56] photonics for large volumes and we are
[01:58:02] packaging big packaging now we're and
[01:58:04] scaling up the business to lower the
[01:58:08] cost per unit and we are ramping up the
[01:58:12] series production at this moment from
[01:58:15] the small series that we do at this
[01:58:18] moment for a lot of customers to
[01:58:23] capabilities to in the 50 packages a
[01:58:26] year per production line and means
[01:58:30] a lot of investment at a time but okay
[01:58:34] we have to do it because the markets are
[01:58:36] really cooling and we focus on the
[01:58:39] markets up to now for our own devices
[01:58:41] for aerospace space medical devices and
[01:58:44] automotive and we set up the test or the
[01:58:50] production and test facility for after
[01:58:53] manual some most prototyping and small
[01:58:56] series universities and startup
[01:58:59] companies and at this moment I think we
[01:59:04] do about 20% of our products for our own
[01:59:07] sensing devices and about 80% for
[01:59:11] third-party companies and qualifications
[01:59:15] that we have we are ISO 13485 medical
[01:59:18] certified and we are now working on
[01:59:21] aerospace qualification and then has to
[01:59:25] happen this year
[01:59:28] what we do as a company we do our own
[01:59:32] basic chip designs we have designers to
[01:59:36] do the final chip design the design
[01:59:38] houses that we all know we bring these
[01:59:42] designs to the found risks that most
[01:59:44] people probably know they do the full
[01:59:47] wafer run or the MTW runs for us and
[01:59:50] what we when we get the chips in we do
[01:59:53] testing mostly manual testing but the
[01:59:56] first automatic digester is coming in
[01:59:59] this year and I hope even next month and
[02:00:04] [Music]
[02:00:05] we do the complete packaging of the chip
[02:00:09] after after testing of course so the
[02:00:13] equipment that we have fiber alignment
[02:00:15] fiber array alignment advanced fibers
[02:00:18] wire bonding die bonding oven curing and
[02:00:22] thermal management and you see well the
[02:00:25] green things is what we do ourselves and
[02:00:28] for our own devices fiber optics fencing
[02:00:32] or basically it is integrated photonics
[02:00:36] sensing what we do it's not only with
[02:00:38] fibers it's about 20% of the the volume
[02:00:43] that we do but all the other systems
[02:00:46] like lidar RF our fiber
[02:00:49] telecom datacom that's the other 80% of
[02:00:52] what we do in packaging and there are
[02:00:55] some examples shown on this picture one
[02:00:58] of the examples or the red box is our
[02:01:02] Gator interrogator system the gray one
[02:01:06] the large one with the antenna on top is
[02:01:08] special device that we developed for
[02:01:11] adverse helicopters and it's now in
[02:01:13] flight test and what you see and the
[02:01:17] things that look like transceivers are
[02:01:22] not transceivers in our case but are the
[02:01:25] smallest interrogators that you can
[02:01:27] think of and they are packaged in in in
[02:01:31] the telecom mat packages that you can
[02:01:32] see here you can see the nice example of
[02:01:36] a complete system in the package it's
[02:01:38] hermetically sealed package the pics
[02:01:41] have
[02:01:42] moderator system having a lot of
[02:01:46] functionality optical integrated
[02:01:49] photonic functionality inside but also
[02:01:53] the complete electronics so front end
[02:01:56] analog electronics and back end FPGA
[02:02:00] like functions in in the package itself
[02:02:03] and the Pegasus you can see the bluish
[02:02:06] small thing next to that is the package
[02:02:08] that we developed for Airbus it's a dual
[02:02:12] interrogator system in a very small
[02:02:15] package with two complete systems in one
[02:02:19] small package I think this package is 4
[02:02:22] by 4 centimeters or so
[02:02:25] so this is what we do you can see on top
[02:02:27] the the line that we have for
[02:02:29] prototyping in a small series production
[02:02:34] and we are now filling up the series of
[02:02:37] volume production the first line that we
[02:02:39] have and you can see that there is a
[02:02:43] parallel path somewhere we need
[02:02:46] automatic fiber align and well that's
[02:02:49] fire we're on line attachments that we
[02:02:52] do it with fiber building and we also
[02:02:56] are investing now in fiber array aligner
[02:02:59] and then it all comes back to couple of
[02:03:03] machines to do the functional testing of
[02:03:06] the of the complete module and mathy
[02:03:09] reliability and I know that you will
[02:03:14] come up with a question what can people
[02:03:16] do for us in the end but I can already
[02:03:18] say it does those those steps all after
[02:03:23] all on their own time so sometimes you
[02:03:27] only need a couple of seconds to do it
[02:03:29] like an automatic wire bonding but fiber
[02:03:31] alignment takes a very long time a
[02:03:33] 5-year array alignment is something
[02:03:35] taking minutes so getting this on the
[02:03:39] same sequence for the same time lines
[02:03:41] instead of making a lot of parallel
[02:03:43] machines would help us tremendously so
[02:03:47] it means that some of the machines has
[02:03:49] to be much much faster than what I ought
[02:03:51] to be now yeah well this is this is
[02:03:57] basically what we do it so you can see
[02:03:58] some examples of test results probing
[02:04:03] testing fiber aligning you can see the
[02:04:07] lens 5 but also the next machines that
[02:04:11] we are investing in our automatic bar
[02:04:13] type on the wire pounder and fiber array
[02:04:16] aligners the range that we have for some
[02:04:21] examples you can see the gold box on top
[02:04:23] that's very standard package that almost
[02:04:26] everybody is using and there are two
[02:04:29] examples here of what we call the
[02:04:30] generic test package it's it's a square
[02:04:35] block of aluminium with the Peltier
[02:04:38] cooller underneath the sub mount and you
[02:04:41] can choose whatever printed circuit
[02:04:45] boards you want to put around it so you
[02:04:47] have RF connections identity and low
[02:04:51] density DC and it's it's produce it's
[02:04:55] made to do testing very quick so we
[02:04:57] receive a lot of bear buys from from
[02:05:00] foundries or startup companies or
[02:05:02] universities and we put them in those
[02:05:04] generic test packages and they can play
[02:05:07] with it the thing the the green thing is
[02:05:11] one of the first ideas that we did in
[02:05:13] last quantities and it's the standard
[02:05:15] package from Gator systems
[02:05:20] some examples this is this this is a an
[02:05:24] example of a package of six light
[02:05:27] sources in one package it is used in in
[02:05:31] an aircraft temperature sensing we call
[02:05:33] it the distributed 10% temperature
[02:05:35] sensing it's basically FBG distributed
[02:05:40] sensing couple of thousand sensors in
[02:05:42] one fibre and they are fed with six
[02:05:46] types of laser light and this is
[02:05:50] something that that it at this moment
[02:05:52] semi hermetically sealed but this
[02:05:57] question is still and that depends on
[02:06:00] the exact position of the system in the
[02:06:02] air in the aircraft if it's if it really
[02:06:05] needs hermetic sealing at the end and
[02:06:09] the last example is landing gear load
[02:06:13] monitoring this is a package with the
[02:06:15] dual analog sensing system inside and on
[02:06:20] the main on the big board you can you
[02:06:22] can see the parts with the pillars on
[02:06:25] top of cooling pillars and there are six
[02:06:29] interrogators in those packages in three
[02:06:32] light sources and this is a complete
[02:06:34] unit to do redundant measuring of the
[02:06:38] forces on the landing gears on our
[02:06:42] aircraft and that's basically what I
[02:06:47] wanted to say this time thank you thank
[02:06:50] you very much beam I mean very nice
[02:06:52] technology very nice presentation as
[02:06:54] always okay so then theme aim I would
[02:06:57] like to ask you you already said what
[02:06:59] the the companies here can do for you
[02:07:01] but if you if you think about the
[02:07:04] perfect customer for you from what
[02:07:08] market will be this perfect customer and
[02:07:10] also it can be can be him or her in the
[02:07:14] room I mean okay well the perfect
[02:07:19] customer is a customer they're the ramps
[02:07:22] up inside entices that we are doing
[02:07:24] because what we see in the market is
[02:07:26] that people come with with their first
[02:07:29] chip it's one shape or three chips
[02:07:32] asked us to package it we can do it for
[02:07:34] them but basically they tell us if this
[02:07:39] chip is successful it will be end of the
[02:07:41] year 200,000 packages a year there is
[02:07:45] not a switch on my machines that they
[02:07:47] can go from one or five packages to
[02:07:50] 200,000 in one step one of the reasons
[02:07:54] that we are doing a project in RF of a
[02:07:57] fiber is because the application is only
[02:08:01] ramping up to a couple of thousand
[02:08:03] packages this year next year a couple of
[02:08:06] ten thousand and then to the 100,000
[02:08:08] units and yeah actually I think we need
[02:08:12] a time and we need the experience to
[02:08:14] ramp up from hundreds or maybe thousands
[02:08:16] of packages that we can do now to the
[02:08:18] extreme what we call an extreme arrive
[02:08:22] volume 250,000 and after that we are
[02:08:27] doing a couple of projects now on
[02:08:28] automotive and yeah if you can be so
[02:08:34] unlucky to be successful there because
[02:08:36] if they really demand their systems in
[02:08:38] the quantities that they are talking
[02:08:40] about I don't think there are machines
[02:08:42] capable of doing that or
[02:08:46] not even taking the skin to death okay
[02:08:50] yes automotive is a very attractive
[02:08:52] market yes but they're directly talking
[02:08:55] about extreme volumes and nobody's ready
[02:08:59] for that I think
[02:09:01] well questions comments about these four
[02:09:04] pin okay so if not I think that it will
[02:09:11] be a very nice a moment doing something
[02:09:14] for a bear from a hobby Erica Saudis are
[02:09:20] you here where maybe it's a good moment
[02:09:22] for you to introduce yourself what the
[02:09:24] castle is doing
[02:09:27] yeah I love this belt do you understand
[02:09:29] me yes yes okay yeah I'm with Cazalas
[02:09:36] cause alice is a company doing equipment
[02:09:41] for the camera lidar of the electronics
[02:09:46] industry yeah we are part of cable
[02:09:50] optics which is yeah also part of your
[02:09:57] organization so it's a member of the
[02:09:58] organization and so what we are offering
[02:10:01] we're offering not only systems for for
[02:10:04] manufacturing but also service like
[02:10:07] engineering service and manufacturing
[02:10:09] service for industry so we offer a full
[02:10:13] scale from real life if you want to have
[02:10:15] a system installed in your place you do
[02:10:18] your own manufacturing or you want to
[02:10:20] have us to help you with the engineering
[02:10:23] or at the end to actually that we
[02:10:26] manufacture your part in high-volume do
[02:10:31] you have any talent or any unmet need
[02:10:34] for the companies here in the meeting
[02:10:37] yeah we do have so we are also looking
[02:10:40] into exactly photonics simply so that
[02:10:45] solves in the second step of our second
[02:10:48] part of our company and we are yeah we
[02:10:50] are happy to talk to anybody who is who
[02:10:54] needs active alignment well because we
[02:10:56] are really facing an active element this
[02:10:58] is our well I'll be rich so whenever you
[02:11:03] guys need to have some active element
[02:11:05] equipment or process you need to help me
[02:11:10] help on then just let us know we're
[02:11:13] happy to serve you talk to you yeah okay
[02:11:16] thank you so and also I would like to
[02:11:19] introduce now a to you do a
[02:11:21] Dejima a Sanders okay a sander maybe
[02:11:27] it's a good moment for you to introduce
[02:11:29] what they team is doing
[02:11:30] yes sure yeah suit AHIMA we are a system
[02:11:33] integrator we are focusing on production
[02:11:36] performance and we have developed a
[02:11:39] machine platform
[02:11:40] is quite capable of quite flexible and
[02:11:43] we are now looking into the photonics
[02:11:47] industry whether our machine platform is
[02:11:49] capable of meeting some specific
[02:11:51] requirements as spin just mentioned is
[02:11:55] that the speed of the processes of key
[02:11:57] in photonics integration and we came up
[02:12:00] at a concept where we couldn't go down
[02:12:02] to 30 seconds cycle time for photonic
[02:12:05] packaging so what we are looking for is
[02:12:09] for partners who are interested in that
[02:12:11] in that cycle time in issue and then we
[02:12:16] would like we are looking into feedback
[02:12:17] on our machine concept so there is any
[02:12:25] moment so if not I will give the because
[02:12:32] there is so much going on here in UT we
[02:12:33] are having this such as such a fun side
[02:12:35] debate about today the most disgusting
[02:12:39] material in the history of packaging
[02:12:41] which is epoxy and I would like to ask
[02:12:43] the material the good manufacturers the
[02:12:46] Hamer
[02:12:46] fine tag so I can take an exome tech but
[02:12:49] we are discussing sunder hilum from MPs
[02:12:51] of myself which is to what extent is the
[02:12:54] time for curing for UV curing epoxy a
[02:12:57] limiting factor in the overall
[02:12:59] production both in the active or in the
[02:13:01] passive alignments under you just talk
[02:13:04] about 30 second which is really really
[02:13:05] cool to what this thing is the UV curing
[02:13:07] time of epoxy a limiting factor it's
[02:13:10] about half of the cycle time so that's
[02:13:12] the limiting factor so we have yeah so
[02:13:17] it of course it depends for only what
[02:13:18] type of epoxy you're using but typically
[02:13:21] the faster you cure the more shrinkage
[02:13:22] you have so you have to balance the
[02:13:25] different the cure time to the
[02:13:27] accuracies you would need but there are
[02:13:30] some very good epoxy in the market will
[02:13:32] show very low shrinkage and short curing
[02:13:37] time so what do you think about the
[02:13:43] curing time of epoxy is that the
[02:13:46] limiting factor mmm yeah well as you
[02:13:48] could see in the video actually
[02:13:51] took most of the time to snap your poxy
[02:13:54] so it's basically up to the customer to
[02:13:57] choose the best epoxies they can find we
[02:14:00] have some experience we probably can
[02:14:02] give some recommendations but in the
[02:14:06] very end actually has just mentioned it
[02:14:08] takes most of the time for the for the
[02:14:10] whole alignment process that's a matter
[02:14:13] of fact and I don't see any other good
[02:14:15] solution set would be able to replace it
[02:14:18] in this particular moment Thurston you
[02:14:20] have been with having discussing this
[02:14:22] topic also flying many exhibitions you
[02:14:24] have been looking at different ways sort
[02:14:26] of a very very carefully the post in the
[02:14:29] epoxy is there anything that we can do
[02:14:31] to reduce this curing time this is like
[02:14:34] we're working together with some of the
[02:14:37] major approximate effectors to exactly
[02:14:42] tackle this problem but it's always a
[02:14:44] it's not only the the cure time and it's
[02:14:47] also the the other parameters like TG
[02:14:48] and there's so many many other
[02:14:50] parameters which we need to take into
[02:14:51] consideration there's there's assemblies
[02:14:54] where we have like five six different
[02:14:56] boxes in one assembly so it's it's a
[02:14:59] quite complex topic and it's definitely
[02:15:02] one of the major contributors just like
[02:15:04] a time table yes you can be so worried
[02:15:06] about the epoxy that you leaving
[02:15:07] actually put put cameras to monitor how
[02:15:09] the droplet changes is there anything we
[02:15:12] can do yeah well actually maybe
[02:15:17] sometimes when I will not be so busy I
[02:15:19] finished my PhD on this but we actually
[02:15:22] we did a lot of work on the shrinkage
[02:15:27] behavior characterization of the
[02:15:29] adhesives and well one one answer we can
[02:15:32] give and basically to reduce cycle time
[02:15:34] is basically to use some assemblies so
[02:15:38] to characterize optics individually see
[02:15:42] what's there working distance put them
[02:15:43] into a package with a certain recess and
[02:15:46] thus minimize the you gap width and then
[02:15:49] you have you end up with a smaller
[02:15:51] geometric the size of the that you get
[02:15:54] which cures faster actually and also
[02:15:56] what we do is we integrate up hearing
[02:15:58] equipment locally into the into the
[02:16:01] micro manipulator so to keep it low
[02:16:04] at time and also thus during the
[02:16:08] transportation time we came here while
[02:16:10] we were holding the objects in the place
[02:16:14] and also one last thing maybe we what we
[02:16:18] also do is visualize shrinkage over time
[02:16:21] so we can really characterize the
[02:16:24] shrinkage behavior and tailor cycle time
[02:16:27] to a minimum and so we sometimes end up
[02:16:29] below two seconds if well everything
[02:16:32] comes together this is the biggest
[02:16:33] challenge that we have in the list in my
[02:16:35] opinion in reducing the processing time
[02:16:38] of this package so anybody in YouTube
[02:16:42] has solutions for this challenge these
[02:16:44] people are really welcoming
[02:16:45] collaborations of this field
[02:16:47] thank you very much about you for this
[02:16:48] quick debate Nikko all the way from
[02:16:51] beautiful Finland PTT how are you doing
[02:16:53] today I'm good
[02:16:55] your last Bhagavan speaker the floor is
[02:16:57] yours okay screen generate no villages
[02:17:16] so good afternoon for me too
[02:17:19] I am a carpenter and I'm from vtt
[02:17:23] Technical Research Centre of Finland we
[02:17:26] do a lot of packaging on photonics and
[02:17:31] and generally photonics is very much
[02:17:38] activity at vtt we have roughly 150
[02:17:43] persons working on photonics and today I
[02:17:49] talk about our photonics in the crease
[02:17:52] and unpackaging services
[02:18:02] it's not moving
[02:18:04] laughter switch okay
[02:18:08] so first about the generally an overview
[02:18:13] of our our photonics integration
[02:18:15] technologies a tweety we do variety of
[02:18:19] photonics integration and packaging
[02:18:22] technologies from module packaging with
[02:18:27] fiber pigtailed modules which include
[02:18:31] high precision photonics assembly then
[02:18:35] we we have inter in-house processes for
[02:18:38] ceramic packaging substrates and
[02:18:44] interposers we do silicon photonics
[02:18:48] technology polymer photonics and and
[02:18:54] printed electronics with hybrid
[02:18:56] overmolding and this means that we we
[02:19:02] have experience on a wide variety of
[02:19:04] applications from consumer devices to
[02:19:07] harsh environments in photonics
[02:19:11] integration one area which I wish to
[02:19:20] present today is the use of ceramics
[02:19:25] interposers in photonics packaging we
[02:19:28] have been working on this area for a
[02:19:31] long time and applying applying
[02:19:35] especially multi-layer ceramics in
[02:19:38] advanced photonics and our of packaging
[02:19:42] the the advantages include applicability
[02:19:49] to very high frequencies up to
[02:19:52] millimeter waves hundred gigahertz and
[02:19:55] beyond even and and in photonics it
[02:20:01] enables miniaturized packaging of for
[02:20:04] instance fiber optic transceivers
[02:20:07] sensors
[02:20:08] and generally Peak speaking system on
[02:20:11] package approach here on the on the
[02:20:16] right side you see this do you see my
[02:20:21] pointer probably not on the right side
[02:20:25] you see the these ceramics carriers that
[02:20:29] we fabricate in in-house process we do
[02:20:36] prototyping pilot production and small
[02:20:40] volume manufacturing of a very advanced
[02:20:45] multi-layer ceramic substrates with
[02:20:48] quick and flexible development cycles
[02:20:51] and customer specific fabrication runs
[02:20:58] here you see this some examples of 3d
[02:21:03] structures that you can make within the
[02:21:07] TCC multi-layer process and here you see
[02:21:13] under on the left you see some examples
[02:21:15] of assembly modules photonic modules my
[02:21:22] perfect eight hermetically sealed window
[02:21:27] and and for instance PTA assembly on the
[02:21:33] board a couple of more detailed examples
[02:21:41] of LTCC multi-layer ceramics is applied
[02:21:46] in photonics packaging at VT t the first
[02:21:51] one here is miniaturized atomic clock
[02:21:57] packaging of it with the flat form
[02:22:02] factor and for ultra low low power
[02:22:05] application so this is really an and
[02:22:08] system on package approach with a very
[02:22:13] advanced thermal management
[02:22:16] with several electronic and photonic and
[02:22:21] MEMS devices which are very sensitive to
[02:22:25] the temperature and this also includes
[02:22:29] vacuum-sealed a TCC ceramics cavity and
[02:22:34] it's aromatic and mechanically stable
[02:22:39] another area as an example where we have
[02:22:44] applied for knowledge packaging is his
[02:22:46] optical transceiver development for very
[02:22:51] harsh environments specific for
[02:22:55] intrastate alight applications we have
[02:22:57] developed high betrayed fiber-optic
[02:23:01] transceivers with the Hermetic he throws
[02:23:07] suitable for 4y temperature reigns and
[02:23:12] and other other Earth's environment
[02:23:15] requirements including radiation this
[02:23:23] was one one area another field I want to
[02:23:27] introduce today is photonic integrated
[02:23:31] circuits packaging and hybrid
[02:23:34] integration we do a tweety team we have
[02:23:42] in-house fab to make silicon photonics
[02:23:47] Peaks using thick SOI technology where
[02:23:53] we also are studying or have studied to
[02:23:57] use wafer level testing and and we can
[02:24:02] do hybrid integration of three five
[02:24:05] active devices on the silicon we also do
[02:24:11] do big packaging and assembly fiber or
[02:24:16] epic tailing and and all the how the
[02:24:20] bonding process is due to build build
[02:24:24] functional modules of weeks may that a
[02:24:29] treaty and and outside we are also part
[02:24:32] of this big SAP consortium and and where
[02:24:40] we apply this or provide especially this
[02:24:44] ceramic packaging approach for for very
[02:24:48] high frequency applications and here is
[02:24:54] an example of one ongoing activity in on
[02:25:02] silicon photonics hybrid in decoration
[02:25:05] and packaging we we have developed weak
[02:25:09] sell it across on on on silicon using a
[02:25:14] break picked up reflecting mirror
[02:25:17] technology and in in passing project
[02:25:22] recently or or currently very high high
[02:25:28] performance transmitter is built using
[02:25:31] this technology
[02:25:39] so we TT offers expert services from
[02:25:47] designer prototyping to manufacturing we
[02:25:51] have unique and tailored research and
[02:25:56] innovation services with wide technology
[02:25:58] and IP our portfolio and extensive
[02:26:03] research facilities in-house and
[02:26:07] together with partners we are operating
[02:26:12] in technical readiness level typically
[02:26:16] between the research and product
[02:26:22] producing companies developing products
[02:26:26] with certified management systems and
[02:26:34] abilities is very active player also in
[02:26:37] in many national and you especially
[02:26:40] european level research programs here
[02:26:44] are some examples of our micro
[02:26:47] technologies presented so I
[02:26:55] I can say that that what we are looking
[02:26:58] for is is advanced packaging photonics
[02:27:04] packaging needs so customers who who
[02:27:08] have challenging requirement for for our
[02:27:14] our integration and assembly and
[02:27:18] packaging capabilities thank you thank
[02:27:27] you very much for this work and well
[02:27:30] thank you very much for commenting about
[02:27:32] the passion for me it's very interesting
[02:27:34] how this project is initiative has
[02:27:38] managed to make this packaging with the
[02:27:40] picture integrated with the silicon
[02:27:42] photonics maybe can you comment about
[02:27:45] the Challenger the Challenger say in DSA
[02:27:48] but that's where all about other
[02:27:50] challenges that you have a when when
[02:27:52] packaging your devices
[02:27:54] you mean this person case the the the
[02:28:00] two to repeat transmitter yes I mean
[02:28:05] that one of course it's a it's a very
[02:28:09] large peak what is is built and there
[02:28:13] are a lot of a lot of electrical iOS in
[02:28:18] addition to to to optical components so
[02:28:22] from the assembly point of view is this
[02:28:24] certainly it has it needs pushing the
[02:28:30] limits of them of the the flip tip
[02:28:36] accuracy and and also the the the
[02:28:41] density of the of the high speed I oh
[02:28:47] okay any any question any comment for me
[02:28:51] go from the audience okay
[02:29:01] if not I would like to to introduce you
[02:29:04] maybe some point introduced you Eric
[02:29:07] Raphael hey yesterday would you like to
[02:29:12] talk a little bit about what do you say
[02:29:15] from hopefully overdoing in the field of
[02:29:17] packaging well thank you so towards the
[02:29:20] end of the meeting a little chance for
[02:29:23] me we are developing here from Ohio s
[02:29:26] assembly technologies for optical in
[02:29:29] particular micro optical technologies we
[02:29:32] deal with fiber processing technologies
[02:29:35] cleaving stripping surprising and
[02:29:40] tempering fibers by means of co2 lasers
[02:29:42] we have precision assembly or alignment
[02:29:46] technologies active passive alignment
[02:29:49] and we are focusing very much on bonding
[02:29:51] technologies for very harsh environments
[02:29:53] like space automotive and medical also
[02:29:58] apply these technologies very new fields
[02:30:02] is quantum technology is kind of
[02:30:04] communication imaging something like
[02:30:06] that ok thank you very much Eric
[02:30:11] and was there any question in YouTube
[02:30:14] that do you want to comment I have a
[02:30:17] really really good idea which is that
[02:30:18] we're gonna have an event don't want to
[02:30:21] technologies actually of quantum
[02:30:22] computing and I want to have a whole set
[02:30:25] of technologies that me I've needed for
[02:30:27] the maturity of photonics in quantum so
[02:30:30] I'm gonna get offline with Glenn we from
[02:30:32] Froyo F and with any other company
[02:30:34] question into prior to this market
[02:30:35] please contact me online
[02:30:36] you guys go to the YouTube universe
[02:30:38] hosted oz+ PETA's a SOCOM send me an
[02:30:41] e-mail because i think we can put
[02:30:42] something great together back to Anna ok
[02:30:45] thank you very much hosting for this
[02:30:46] comment then let's move to the next and
[02:30:49] last but not least the speaker from bi
[02:30:52] is good thank you yes can you hear me
[02:31:01] everybody in the room excellent very
[02:31:04] good first I want to say how utterly
[02:31:09] delightful it is to see everybody here
[02:31:12] Jose Anna thank you so much for putting
[02:31:15] this together it's been a very
[02:31:20] a few weeks we are just now beginning
[02:31:23] our sixth week of shelter at home here
[02:31:27] in I'm in California greetings by the
[02:31:30] way what I would like to do is first
[02:31:35] share my screen and put this into a of
[02:31:41] course I'm not on the correct slide here
[02:31:43] so let's see I'd like to first touch on
[02:31:51] something that Brad factor said just a
[02:31:52] few minutes ago about investment in the
[02:31:56] technology routing big checks which I
[02:32:00] think we would all welcome I'm reminded
[02:32:04] of the early years of my career back in
[02:32:07] the 1980s and I realize I'm dated myself
[02:32:10] here I would visit IBM in their labs in
[02:32:15] Fishkill New York and today you can
[02:32:18] establish you can build a fab just by
[02:32:21] writing purchase orders back then you
[02:32:23] could not you had to build your own
[02:32:26] equipment because the ecosystem of
[02:32:30] semiconductor manufacturing that we take
[02:32:32] for granted today just did not exist
[02:32:35] them so when I visited IBM's facilities
[02:32:37] it was custom machine after custom
[02:32:39] machine because they they needed to do
[02:32:44] this but they saw the demand they saw
[02:32:46] the applications emerging this was the
[02:32:49] the early years of the personal computer
[02:32:51] there were no super computers in
[02:32:53] anyone's pockets there was no streaming
[02:32:56] media none of the things that that we
[02:32:58] see today and so I see parallels in the
[02:33:02] photonics industry in that we are just
[02:33:05] getting started and we have to be
[02:33:07] mindful of the applications the fact
[02:33:11] that what we are doing here is very
[02:33:13] important work we are keeping the world
[02:33:16] connected we are keeping the world
[02:33:19] entertained we are trading information
[02:33:21] this pandemic that we are in the middle
[02:33:24] of right now the therapies the inner
[02:33:26] workings of the virus itself it all
[02:33:29] involves immense amounts of data being
[02:33:31] conveyed continue
[02:33:33] around the world and so what we're doing
[02:33:36] is is quite important for the recovery
[02:33:39] of the world as we reboot in the coming
[02:33:43] weeks photonics is going to be more
[02:33:45] important than ever so let me just dig
[02:33:50] right in we only have six minutes for
[02:33:52] this and I would like to get through as
[02:33:54] quickly as possible it's wonderful to
[02:33:56] say that photonics is going to play a
[02:33:58] dominant role in the post recovery
[02:34:01] period but the blunt of fact of the
[02:34:04] matter is as we all know it is costly
[02:34:07] especially the alignment portion of
[02:34:10] building and testing photonic devices
[02:34:13] and other electro-optic assemblies such
[02:34:16] as lasers cameras things like that there
[02:34:18] are precise alignments that need to be
[02:34:21] performed and the technologies that I've
[02:34:24] worked with for example the first
[02:34:27] digital grading and search technology
[02:34:28] that I developed back in the late 1980s
[02:34:31] is too slow just today's devices have
[02:34:35] multiple channels multiple elements
[02:34:37] multiple inputs and outputs that all
[02:34:39] need to be aligned in multiple degrees
[02:34:41] of freedom and this is an expensive
[02:34:44] process and it's not just me saying so
[02:34:46] as you look at this slide right here you
[02:34:49] see studies performed by IBM that shows
[02:34:52] such an immense cost that packaging
[02:34:56] which involves multiple alignment steps
[02:34:58] requires and then if you were to be
[02:35:01] older paper from 2006 published in
[02:35:05] library technologies and the lower right
[02:35:08] hand corner of my slide here you'll see
[02:35:11] that alignment is something that is
[02:35:13] actually embedded and repeated in
[02:35:15] multiple process and test steps so the
[02:35:19] fact is alignment itself is painful but
[02:35:22] then it is repeated so many times in the
[02:35:25] process of testing and manufacturing
[02:35:28] devices from the wafer level on up to
[02:35:30] the final package it's expensive so what
[02:35:33] we've done our contribution to the field
[02:35:36] has been to address this issue of high
[02:35:40] production costs and high test costs
[02:35:44] because of
[02:35:47] we're trying to reduce the pain of
[02:35:49] alignment and we have done so our
[02:35:51] signature technology that has worked
[02:35:54] very very well for our customers is a
[02:35:56] parallel alignment technology that
[02:35:59] allows all of those multiple alignments
[02:36:02] that I've described across inputs and
[02:36:04] outputs and elements and channels and
[02:36:07] degrees of freedom to all be done in as
[02:36:11] few as one step so that instead of these
[02:36:14] time-consuming repetitive alignments
[02:36:17] where everything depends on everything
[02:36:19] else we have addressed the mathematical
[02:36:23] underpinnings of that to allow them to
[02:36:26] all proceed in parallel and allow the
[02:36:29] alignment to occur instead of in minutes
[02:36:31] in typically less than a second maybe
[02:36:34] two seconds it depends on the device it
[02:36:37] depends on how complex the that the
[02:36:40] alignments are it depends on the figure
[02:36:43] of Merit being being optimized because
[02:36:48] this is a generic alignment technology
[02:36:52] that has been embedded in a variety of
[02:36:55] our products here ranging from nano
[02:36:58] positioners for which B is known to
[02:37:01] hexapods and now our largest industrial
[02:37:04] stages this technology has been built so
[02:37:09] that we can offer a modular solution to
[02:37:12] our customers and it's working quite
[02:37:14] well both for those customers who are
[02:37:16] building their own solutions in-house
[02:37:18] and for our OEMs here in the lower right
[02:37:21] hand corner of my screen you see an edge
[02:37:24] coupling arrangement from form factor to
[02:37:28] Gamma just mentioned the technologies
[02:37:31] that they are leveraging to provide
[02:37:33] higher throughput and in a more compact
[02:37:36] form factor using leveraging parallelism
[02:37:39] techniques I think this is something
[02:37:41] that's very very important not just for
[02:37:44] photonics for telecommunications but
[02:37:46] also for things that that we haven't
[02:37:49] mentioned for example well quantum
[02:37:51] computing has been mentioned that is
[02:37:54] becoming very important it's already big
[02:37:56] business big business for us and for
[02:37:57] others as well
[02:37:59] just about a week or two ago a company
[02:38:03] here in Silicon Valley named SCI optics
[02:38:06] took off its cloak they were they were a
[02:38:10] stealth company prior to this and now no
[02:38:13] longer stealth and if you look at their
[02:38:15] website if you look at their press
[02:38:18] releases you'll find they're probing
[02:38:20] wafers using the technology that you see
[02:38:23] here they're talking about 1 million
[02:38:26] cubits
[02:38:27] that's orders of magnitude more more
[02:38:29] compute power that has previously been
[02:38:32] introduced by the other major players in
[02:38:34] the field just recently it was big news
[02:38:37] when one company IBM or Google or
[02:38:39] someone like that came up with 48 qubits
[02:38:42] and then they were eclipsed a few days
[02:38:44] two weeks later with 52 qubits and so
[02:38:47] forth so 1 million 1 million is just a
[02:38:50] well if I'm could be forgiven for saying
[02:38:53] so it's a quantum leap in capability but
[02:38:57] other things aren't happening as well
[02:38:59] there's been no mention yet of consumer
[02:39:02] optical cables you're finding consumer
[02:39:05] and business applications are
[02:39:06] confronting the same physical limits
[02:39:10] that the data centers have confronted
[02:39:13] the ability the the challenge of
[02:39:16] conveying the data throughput and the
[02:39:19] volume of the data from one end of a
[02:39:21] cable to another is becoming difficult
[02:39:25] over practical lengths of cables so
[02:39:27] consequently within the past six months
[02:39:29] I have seen my customers showing me
[02:39:32] prototypes of optical USB optical USB
[02:39:36] for optical HDMI optical Thunderbolt
[02:39:40] even optical lightning and this is being
[02:39:43] driven by the world's appetite for data
[02:39:45] the fact that we are walking around with
[02:39:47] super computers in our pockets partaking
[02:39:51] of streaming media social networks
[02:39:53] benefiting from the research that's
[02:39:56] being done in personal medicine and
[02:39:59] genomics and waiting for a cure waiting
[02:40:02] for therapies for this virus that has
[02:40:04] attacked the world it's all being driven
[02:40:06] by photonics so what we're doing again
[02:40:08] to come full circle is important that
[02:40:12] takes me to
[02:40:13] my very last slide I ran a little bit
[02:40:15] over but I hope that we can now move to
[02:40:20] a period where we all work together to
[02:40:22] build these applications and to make the
[02:40:25] world a better place going forward as we
[02:40:28] reboot and reconstruct again great to
[02:40:31] see you folks please let's stay in touch
[02:40:33] and let's work together and we will be
[02:40:36] that because in November we all go to
[02:40:39] pass through head to the epic meeting on
[02:40:41] packaging and testing automation from
[02:40:43] manufacturing hosted by P I the
[02:40:45] beautiful beautiful building we have had
[02:40:47] so many discussions and I really want to
[02:40:50] hear from not a packaging company what I
[02:40:53] hear from a liner company it looks
[02:40:55] similar Joseph II you have heard so many
[02:40:57] pieces there's so much information in
[02:40:59] your head what do you get out of this is
[02:41:01] the supply chain ready for a company
[02:41:03] look see going into production thanks by
[02:41:07] the way thanks Jose so yeah I memorize
[02:41:08] user fee from Luke's in Denmark now
[02:41:11] first of all it's been very interesting
[02:41:13] talks all the way from equipments to
[02:41:16] individual modules like P is right now
[02:41:18] and and the whole supply chain all the
[02:41:21] way from let's say we TT for example
[02:41:22] showing you all what's the latest we
[02:41:25] work very close to the markets though
[02:41:27] our our drivers are very simple cost
[02:41:30] size and and and power yeah on top of
[02:41:34] this also the volume the amount of
[02:41:36] numbers because we're trying to go for
[02:41:38] the larger markets um my demands I asked
[02:41:42] somebody for a wishlist let me do a
[02:41:43] wishlist
[02:41:44] very simple and my wishlist is on lasers
[02:41:46] optic and and upped electronic
[02:41:49] integration they get back to the same
[02:41:51] scenario it asked quick alignment but
[02:41:55] what I have heard today all the building
[02:41:57] blocks are there some but we need now
[02:42:00] it's our building make up into I think
[02:42:03] exome text said it nicely into modules
[02:42:06] assemble these module collect these
[02:42:08] modules and build bigger system based on
[02:42:10] this and go and this is how all systems
[02:42:14] are built if you look inside your mobile
[02:42:15] phone is consist of different modules
[02:42:17] and each modules individually perfection
[02:42:19] ated so recycling of modules recycling
[02:42:23] of products are recycling of a frequent
[02:42:26] recycling
[02:42:27] that's the only way to reach the market
[02:42:29] so that's the only way to answer you
[02:42:31] what have I seen I have seen all the
[02:42:33] seeds but I'm still missing the plants
[02:42:36] so hopefully I will start building some
[02:42:38] of those plants
[02:42:39] yeah thank you I'm amazed by what you
[02:42:45] are doing lately but you managed to to
[02:42:47] create this company the company is such
[02:42:49] a successful story in Europe we are so
[02:42:51] happy to have you in epic and many many
[02:42:54] other companies here really happy
[02:42:55] because you are setting up a supply
[02:42:57] chain with epic members-only and that's
[02:43:00] amazing just to say just to advertise
[02:43:07] all my friends and the public you know
[02:43:09] you have to do a shout out also most of
[02:43:11] my suppliers are here at this group so
[02:43:13] thank you fellows very optics you are
[02:43:17] the company who has been leading the
[02:43:20] cointegration of electronics and
[02:43:22] photonics photonics on PCB for different
[02:43:25] niche markets in in Europe what did you
[02:43:26] learn from this meeting on what kind of
[02:43:28] connections you think we need to start
[02:43:30] making for making this question even
[02:43:31] stronger as first of all thank you for
[02:43:35] this excellent conference it tells us
[02:43:38] over to come over this critical phase
[02:43:41] here this Corona crisis no it was a very
[02:43:47] interesting conference for me we are
[02:43:51] supplying electro optical circuit ports
[02:43:56] which can be used for a substrate for
[02:44:00] for photonic packages it was not new to
[02:44:08] me but I think the whole assembly
[02:44:10] process and all the equipment influences
[02:44:14] also our technology development and and
[02:44:18] I think towards our end customer which
[02:44:24] some of them are here in the meeting
[02:44:27] they the whole ecosystem has to exist
[02:44:31] and and for me it was good to see all
[02:44:33] these different approaches for example
[02:44:36] from the different assembly
[02:44:40] machine providers these active
[02:44:46] assembly machine providers these active
[02:44:46] alignment processes which have been
[02:44:48] shown that clearly influence also the
[02:44:52] solutions which can beit's on our
[02:44:55] technology and I think it gave me a very
[02:44:58] good outlook into our neighbor
[02:45:00] technologies to the ecosystem around us
[02:45:05] and towards the customers I also learned
[02:45:08] a lot today I was you know what doing
[02:45:10] the YouTube chat and chatting with you
[02:45:12] and what's up and in the bike lane in
[02:45:14] Baghdad at the same time was taking
[02:45:15] notes so that's how many things I can do
[02:45:17] the same time sorry because those times
[02:45:19] you could hear me typing yeah no it's
[02:45:21] perfect here but what I can tell you is
[02:45:23] that I learned quite a few things and I
[02:45:24] put this slide together on the kind of
[02:45:26] challenges that I think we need to
[02:45:28] communicate to the different people
[02:45:29] outside this working group on one hand
[02:45:32] it was clearly stated in the beginning
[02:45:34] that we need to have a more linked
[02:45:35] connection with the people who are
[02:45:37] driving the OCSP and kiss appeal the
[02:45:39] form factors pluggable transceivers we
[02:45:41] are working on that but we need to have
[02:45:43] different entities drug crafting this
[02:45:46] design rules translating the fun factor
[02:45:49] in recent rules for the future companies
[02:45:51] like like Sequoia Oracle photonics cool
[02:45:53] while making a big difference this in
[02:45:56] the suspect the biggest thing I heard to
[02:45:58] date for me was the maturity of the
[02:46:00] standard testing boards the presentation
[02:46:02] from gen optic the work of rod micro
[02:46:04] tech I think that's something that is a
[02:46:06] new step in the maturity of the supply
[02:46:09] chain now we can do this volume testing
[02:46:11] on that I think yellow has something
[02:46:14] unique to offer we need to put these
[02:46:15] companies together does something really
[02:46:17] pretty bit less strongly big because we
[02:46:19] really have been on looking at testing
[02:46:21] in the world of Jacques that especially
[02:46:23] at eye level another one which for me
[02:46:25] was so great was the ramp up to
[02:46:27] production we have finally assets in
[02:46:30] Europe if I contact touch the bar in
[02:46:33] Courvoisier one more machines in Europe
[02:46:34] we need to make this oceans grow and we
[02:46:36] need to have more we have no success
[02:46:38] stories from fix from technology VPS I
[02:46:40] think we need more of those in Europe
[02:46:41] but is great we already have production
[02:46:44] to highest and to high volume in Europe
[02:46:47] and it does permission that we need to
[02:46:48] keep pushing the biggest challenge today
[02:46:51] was the
[02:46:52] so basically we really still talk about
[02:46:55] the disgusting epoxy thing which I hate
[02:46:59] and I will never stop hating but we need
[02:47:01] to find a way of reducing this this
[02:47:04] effect in the curing time and I think
[02:47:06] there is the big challenge for the
[02:47:07] community outside and the companies in
[02:47:09] the automation here are looking for the
[02:47:11] standard collaborations we talked a bit
[02:47:12] about hermetic packaging and it was for
[02:47:15] me something quite quite eye-opening
[02:47:17] when the european space agency said we
[02:47:19] don't want it so you're making it for us
[02:47:21] we don't want it we is too expensive for
[02:47:23] us and that was something interesting
[02:47:25] for me too - to see how we can study
[02:47:27] whether to make travel Department
[02:47:28] cheaper or whether to actually make
[02:47:30] suitable non hermetic package suitable
[02:47:33] for space and the final one was the
[02:47:35] volume the volume testing had to
[02:47:37] reincorporate distal cordilla standards
[02:47:40] is automation standards to this
[02:47:41] beautiful supply chain presented by an
[02:47:43] optic we need to be able to collaborate
[02:47:45] with those who have the next stage into
[02:47:47] automation for testing of photonic
[02:47:50] devices if it was truly truly great I
[02:47:52] really enjoyed myself I hope you also
[02:47:54] had a nice enjoyful afternoon it is
[02:47:57] Friday
[02:47:58] it is after 5:30 so we also go to have a
[02:48:01] drink with our families inside the house
[02:48:03] so I would like to ask you three things
[02:48:04] the first of all stay home
[02:48:06] very importantly stay home the second
[02:48:08] one stay healthy and look at scale
[02:48:10] yesterday he looks so healthy today and
[02:48:12] the final one keep being a picky come
[02:48:15] into the online meetings and keep making
[02:48:17] us so happy and so happy today another
[02:48:19] smiley like crazy she can't play lebombo
[02:48:22] guitarist is fascinating until the next
[02:48:24] time see you soon have a nice weekend
[02:48:26] bye see you soon thanks weekend