# EPIC Online Technology Meeting on Moulded Optics

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uOydl8gTkY

[00:00] 3 p.m. in the Netherlands here in North Pike.
[00:02] It's sunny, it's spring, it's May.
[00:04] We are all excited to talk about a topic that is booming in the Optics community.
[00:07] That is booming in optics.
[00:09] We are excited to talk about molded optics.
[00:11] On Monday, May 3rd at 3 p.m., we're going to address the most traditional and right now the fastest growing market for optics.
[00:22] This is where demands for high performance meet the need for cost effectiveness.
[00:24] No wonder it is a major driver in automotive lighting.
[00:28] Have you seen the new award-winning headlamps by Balo or Marelli?
[00:37] However, during your previous meeting on automotive lighting, Volvo shared their unmet needs in terms of power, field of view, and their vision on having both a low and high beam maximizing the illumination of the road.
[00:43] And this adds to the upcoming demand for better.
[01:01] interior lighting in automotive so we are bringing back Volvo and its supply chain to discuss how molded Optics need to adapt to their new challenges.
[01:13] we certainly can't have a successful meeting on molded Optics without Lea in the room.
[01:18] they've spent 107 years developing camera solutions that capture the memories of five generations.
[01:24] I want to engage with them about the need for high resolution features in the Optics.
[01:32] which implies high resolution features in the mold itself.
[01:34] what new materials are needed and what new manufacturing techniques for the molds such as direct laser writing nanometer scale 3D printing or the development of flexible molds.
[01:48] let's wait for the answer to our famous epic question.
[01:51] the two hour discussion will also examine room for cooperation with the manufacturers or the pl PlayStation 5 Sony dadc the
[02:03] entertainment world is in a constant flux.
[02:06] the need for Noel Optics in augmented reality as well as high quality streaming to The Gamers themselves has opened up new challenges for the Optics manufacturers.
[02:15] these are just three examples if you want to propose your company's molding solution sign up right now.
[02:23] see you on May 3rd at 300 p.m. the 3 at 3.
[02:27] when is the PS5 going to be back in stock.
[02:36] we definitely need the PS5 backing stock and we also would like to say that today today we have a really one of the future gasel in this industry Kura technologist accepted to come here to discuss their challenges in supply chain.
[02:51] we are talking about the 120 field of view.
[02:53] we are talking about 4K 4K Pro projection in the AR gole.
[02:57] this is something fantastic.
[02:59] thank you everyone.
[03:02] thank you everyone for registering I see
[03:03] many people in the zoom room also many people in our YouTube channel.
[03:07] it is great we keep getting the support of all the industry.
[03:08] we are now 700 I don't know how many but we know every one of you individually and that is never going to change.
[03:15] this is just a number we are still a small Association because every company for us is a universe.
[03:22] we just need to know what everyone does and here my name is Jose I'm talking on behalf of a fantastic group of people and together with then organize events.
[03:29] we provide access to a network we help you raise Capital.
[03:33] we have the biggest website to find a job in photonics YY phonic.com check it out and every epic member you know this very well.
[03:39] every member has access to a long long list of market reports which she we give all of them to you with extra payment just for the membership fee.
[03:45] today it we are in the middle of the season 4 I think s you know this.
[03:52] we are already more than 100 online meetings since the pandemic started more than 100 online meetings today season 4 me season 4 mul optics.
[03:59] for those of you active in the medical domain check the one next week on Urology.
[04:03] we are extremely excited about
[04:05] it but every topic here is addressed.
[04:07] there is something for every epic member.
[04:09] please register for these meetings as soon as humanly possible but today today.
[04:15] molded Optics and first of all thank you.
[04:17] or media partner photonics views we couldn't make this without you thank you very much.
[04:20] but this meeting wouldn't be possible with the support of or ex sponsor today all the way from Berlin.
[04:24] micro resist technology they are the providers photo resist and photopolymers for the manufacturing ohen molded Optics.
[04:33] thank you for being with us today but all the way from Finland we have opch.
[04:34] opl is our company manufacturing cost effective nonisothermal molding method based prod prisms lenses light guides.
[04:45] nonimaging for nonimaging and for Imaging applications thank you very much for being with us.
[04:49] aaall all the way from Jenna the manufactur frenel Optics they started on the solar but now they cover all the applications especially the Machine Vision industry.
[04:59] all the way from Aken we have enolly inite is a company who can provide turning systems but also the molds for the molded Optics.
[05:07] you for being with us and finally we're finishing Austria evg floran aning is representing today for evg the manufacturer the semiconductor equipment that go from n imp liography all the way from step and repeat liography system.
[05:20] thank you EV for being with us and thank you to the person who made this meeting possible the one who worked the hardest in this room to make everyone here happy today Dr s paika or expert in Optics Manufacturing Santa what's going to happen in the next two hours.
[05:35] thank you so much Jose great introduction I love the energy in the room everybody's here ready to speak and we have of course a nice list of speakers we we hear from Volvo we will hear Volvo cars from Lea CA from Kura technology as you said and from NOA IP mro realus but also I would like to show you the list of the people who signed up for this meeting.
[05:55] we see a very nice representation of the the supply chain from the endusers to the system integrators uh the optical designer photonic component polymer material the people responsible for
[06:09] Optics and micro Optics like also the representation from the pilot line fabulous for free form microoptics there.
[06:16] is people um presenting Noel material glass material uh of course at touring and master generation Technologies and very important are the equipment um from rooll to playay laser laser scribing.
[06:31] cting deposition we have we have a very nice uh list of guests today and I can't wait for this meeting to start.
[06:38] if you're missing your logo here there is only one reason.
[06:42] yeah there's only one reason because this slide only represents the companies who register for the meeting today.
[06:47] so you you're not there it's because you forgot to register.
[06:50] please don't let it happen again and this meeting is also live stream in YouTube.
[06:54] so hello YouTubers if you have any question please write it in the chat.
[06:57] I will read it in the room if you want to get touch with any of the participants today that's important business here.
[07:03] if you want to get in touch with any of the participants today write me an email.
[07:04] epic.com and I will make sure I make the
[07:09] Introduction, if you have a nice business proposition for them.
[07:11] Also, I would like to remind everyone that this is so valid in the Zoom room.
[07:14] We have the internal chat here, use it, use it, get in touch with each other.
[07:19] Chat, I don't mind if you are typing during the meeting because that means you are doing business.
[07:23] But you have a, you want to get in touch with, you know, the participants after the meeting.
[07:27] All you have to do is drop me an email, drop me an email, and I will make sure I make the introduction.
[07:30] Let's get the meeting started.
[07:33] And as I said in my introduction video, we cannot have this meeting without Volvo being back in the room.
[07:39] After the low and high being challenged at the previous meeting, we want to find out what are the main challenges in molded optics and what business connections we can have.
[07:49] And today we have with us Paul Henry Mata, technical leader for exterior lighting of Volvo.
[07:53] The floor and the attention of everyone goes to the Volvo from Sweden, the safest car in the world.
[08:00] The floor is yours.
[08:03] Yes, thank you very much for the introduction.
[08:09] yeah.
[08:11] so so I hope you see my screen very clear.
[08:14] yeah so I have done small slide so just to introduce the topic for automotive lighting inside and just to to see and to show you the stakes yeah.
[08:26] so I think it is a slide already presented uh in one Epic meeting but it is a usage of optical Parts in in exterior lighting.
[08:36] so we have in lamp from the front we have in rear lamp from the rear and we have also interior lighting so a lot of components with a lot of optical system and different Technologies.
[08:47] so what are the Stak for us.
[08:51] so it is for signaling function so you see for example on this picture the DRL function so the daytime running light what we call invol tors Hammer which is the Volvo signatures and also we use it for lighting function.
[09:03] so for lighting function I have seen your video from postar so it is for for example the
[09:10] postar to where where you see the headlamp and when you see what we have inside indeed we have the LED with the pcbs but we have also Optical system with a silicone part component we have also the the lens which is in plastic and we have a lot of other components all these things are part of the optical system also when we develop some Optical component especially for signaling function so we have some technology like reflector light guide inner lens frel concept and so on and each time we combine a different Optical system between the LED which is the input and the output with light guide combined with reflector and so on all the signaling function are done like this for automotive lighting signaling function when what is the main stake for car makers today so you know with electrification it is especially the power consumption so you can see on this slide.
[10:12] on the left you have what we have when we are in in daytime running light when we have some bulb it was around 50 wat per car.
[10:18] if you design an optical system very efficient with Optical efficiency around 50% so you will have between 10 and 20 watt.
[10:30] so this is very efficient we have no topic for this for this but when you want to design something very nice like the Volvo signatures then the power consumptions can be between 30 60 wat per car and the optical efficiency will be very very low and sometimes we will have a power consumption which is more powerful than a bu function.
[10:50] we have exactly the same topic with the low beam power consumption so when we are by night so when we have some bulb in the past it was 140 watt per car with an efficient LED system which is quite big what we see for example of this Reno capture the power efficiency is also quite good and the power consumption is quite low.
[11:13] around 20 40 wat per car but when you want to go to an very efficient system with a very thed Lum what you can see on the Volvo S90 for example then the power efficiency is less good and the power efficiency at the end can be at the same level of allogen BU and this is today what is very very important for car makers so just if you want to have some figures what when we speak about power consumption so when we have 50 wat power consumption it is equivalent to 1 gram CO2 when we speak about internal combination engine so what we have in the past with the gasoline and the engine this is the value during wltp homologation in Europe and when we speak about electrical car so what we call Battery electrical car so Bev it is around 1% of the range so it will it will depends on the size of the battery but 1% of the range is a good value for 50 wat and then to be
[12:14] able to work on that we have to work with you about the Lumen output per watt.
[12:18] so the Lumen per wat of the Candela output per watt and what we have seen just previously is that for lighting function we are between 20 and 50% and for signaling we have around 10%.
[12:31] so this is not good or it could be improved and what we need is if we want to reduce the power consumption then to be able to to reduce the size of the battery or to increase the range of the battery of the car then we have to develop more efficient solution so less what for the same amount of flumen.
[12:51] and the idea is to be able to multiply by two the efficiency of the system and then I put on the right what are the action and what we are waiting for epic remember it is to be able to work on the light source to work on the optical system to work on the plastic material on the injection tool on the tool design on the optical concept by itself or all the other things we can.
[13:14] Develop so this was my last slide.
[13:17] It was just to do an introduction to show you what we need to want if we want to improve optical efficiency for automotive lighting.
[13:23] Thank you, thank you so much POI for this very nice talk.
[13:29] Can you clearly know the spirit of Epic?
[13:31] You prepared what you need from the community.
[13:32] But as we have today the meeting on molded optics, I would like to uh while waiting for uh um our guest today to rise hand and ask a question.
[13:43] Um, let me maybe ask you about the some specifications maybe on the plastic raw material or injection process.
[13:48] Is there any uh specific need there or something you can share um with us in more details?
[13:55] For example, for the material uh you can specify on the temperature tolerance, for example, or so on.
[14:05] Yes, perhaps not for what is important for the material is the transmission, especially when we have a material with a thickness of 1 mm.
[14:11] Transmission is not very important, but
[14:15] when you put the light and the length of the part is 50 cm then the transmission the light transmission is very very important.
[14:22] so for example today pmma is better than polycarbonate than PC but perhaps we can improve the the PC to have the same properties than PMA PMA.
[14:32] we have some problem with temperature especially because we use LED at 150 for example and then it is it can be difficult to use pmma because PMA limitation is around 110 degree.
[14:44] so that's why we need to improve the raw material for example to increase the transparency and the efficiency uh and when it comes to Optical design.
[14:53] Optical design I've just mentioned just some some design just here for example sorry with a reflector solution with inner lens with light guide it is not very efficient.
[15:08] so perhaps we have to create new new design we have seen some MLA so microl lens concept we have a diffractive optic.
[15:15] have new design but for the moment it is only research.
[15:17] we have not seen in predevelopment and we have not seen in development.
[15:21] so I think it is something which seem to be very good but we have to to move forward and we have to be able to do the industrialization and the development of this technology.
[15:32] thank you so much uh let me see if we have any comment from the room.
[15:34] please unmute and uh there are there are many comments in the room which I'm going to voice them out because they are telling me in private.
[15:39] the first comment that I get here is that they everybody sees that there is a huge push for for plastic ER.
[15:43] is there any anything going on on glass base optics for I know very heavily on interior but for exterior lighting is there any activity on that.
[15:51] is there challenge that we cover with glass.
[15:58] yes the glass is good but after with the glass we have the problem with the weight.
[16:03] so but um yes glass is good no no issue for that.
[16:05] so we work for example in the past with aoan in France it is a good supplier we have do Optics so we
[16:16] have a lot of supplier with glass so it's not it's not a problem if we have some good properties with glass we can use it
[16:22] I understood that we have limitation with the shape so especially for the designers glasses always a question and always it could be a problem you know what is the problem here
[16:32] where I see from from all these meetings I realize that end users come here and there is they have a challenge and the challenge is always cost is a challenge weight is a challenge the materials are a challenge
[16:42] how do I make this Optics come through and then we have the suppliers who tell to tell you my Optics are the best my material is the best my moldes are the best my Nano imp liography is the best
[16:50] I really sh we've been thinking about how to solve this issue and last two weeks ago I came up with
[16:58] I met Oliver Oliver from Panda and he told me I think I have a solution for this
[17:05] panda is a new epic member welcome Oliver to to Epic and most important fandal is the company that in my opinion can solve this challenge to answer while the end user is asking to what price what volume what Le time and
[17:18] Even what machines can generate it?
[17:20] Oliver, please unmute yourself because I want you to meet Paul Henry, but also for the rest to meet also the rest of the people in the room.
[17:27] You are muted. I have a Mac to celebrate such event.
[17:30] All right.
[17:33] Yes, no, I'm not muted. I'm here. I'm in the last minute jumped in. Thank you very much.
[17:38] Uh, I, I'm from Panda. What the heck is Panda in Switzerland? Sounds like Chinese and that's weird things I want to show you in just a second.
[17:46] Um, I share my screen, which is very, very dangerous.
[17:49] I do look. This is Pand. We have a software tool. What is the software tool doing?
[17:58] Because it just asked glass or plastics?
[18:01] So the question is, what, what, what type of material you use or what type of technology you use?
[18:05] Optics designers design design systems and then they have to be built and how do you know?
[18:13] And we have zMAX and and osw and and code 5 to support them with software to find the best uh optical system design, but
[18:21] there's no software for the best Optical fabrication chain design and this is Panda doing.
[18:25] we I I will show you we point you you read in the lens design uh General informations like lens diameter Center thickness and how much how much do you want to produce also the material we can handle Plastics to Glass to cylinders to to crystals to calcium fluoride T carbide and then what we do is we we read in isorm Cent uh shape accuracy type type a sphere no a sphere and so on and so on and then with one click ask now get for this case it's a 4 million 4 million pieces you want to produce it's a pmma material and it's a it's a quite small weird a spere in plastic so can do that the best replication chain in this case is injection molding wonder why if you now play you now the Optics designer can play around with tolerances and see life what will happen or maybe more
[19:22] straightforward if I have only two minutes to do we reduce the number of pieces and there's poing up uh turning.
[19:30] if you don't know what this is you can move your mouse and you get some nice references on there.
[19:36] now we just be very weird change the design to class if we do class with this and we see and and we we enable emerging Technologies the new stuff around you are all interested in then we see hey there a stand a traditional fabrication chain jumping in with fluid CH in the end.
[19:51] if you don't know what it is read it up here if we if you go to numbers again in glass then you see and then I'm already done maybe some zero too much it doesn't matter it's a life event so here when we are down to prision Glass molding which is the counterpart to injection molding for the glass huh.
[20:11] if you are now very weird you want to have your lighting not in glass and not in in Plastics but I do want a germanium lens stupid I'm not a designer last click for the day then you
[20:24] see turning comes in because you can't
[20:27] mold germanium as as far as I know thank
[20:30] you very much for your attention and the
[20:31] opportunity to to present you know I am
[20:34] very impressed with this because you
[20:36] calculate lead time and you calculate
[20:38] price um how do you come up with these
[20:41] numbers are my friends for for sus micro
[20:44] Optics are going to be very upset when
[20:46] you are telling their customers exactly
[20:48] how much they have to
[20:49] charge ah well what we are doing is we
[20:52] point to the process you still need a
[20:54] guy uh like Wilfried who who who who
[20:57] optimizes the machine
[20:59] to serve the optimum of the process not
[21:02] always you need the state-of-the-art
[21:04] process for a certain applicability
[21:07] application then it's enough to have 60%
[21:10] of the quality to run so you need guys
[21:12] like Engineers to set up the injection
[21:14] molding machine we don't set up your
[21:16] injection molding machine but we tell
[21:18] you if you choose injection molding
[21:20] that's what's possible and this and it
[21:22] will cost that if you end up with double
[21:24] fabrication cost there's some somebody
[21:26] doing something wrong okay we have
[21:29] Wilfred in the room and you have been
[21:30] just directed mentioned so what is your
[21:33] take on this how do you feel that this
[21:35] software exist great so no this is great
[21:37] so I mean I I know Oliva fer of course
[21:41] where the Swiss Community is very small
[21:42] no this is great to have such a website
[21:44] where you can see immediately what are
[21:46] your options what we do at Zeus is not
[21:49] is not uh molded lenses we make
[21:51] injection or imprint so it's a little
[21:53] bit different technology and it's very
[21:57] excuse me it's very um complementary to
[21:59] molded Optics so it's imprint so where
[22:02] you use wafer level Optics basically so
[22:04] you have but for we have a very similar
[22:07] supply chain like the molded lenses so
[22:09] for the Masters and the and the optical
[22:11] design so the supply chain and the
[22:13] design is very similar but the product
[22:15] in the end will be very different so I
[22:17] the more we push microoptics the better
[22:19] for everyone in the community so I I'm
[22:22] not upset at all it's just the opposite
[22:24] oliv is completely agnostic of the
[22:26] manufacturing process made so actually
[22:28] actually he's also implementing even two
[22:30] Photon polymerization here we discussed
[22:32] this this is just the beginning of
[22:34] something that is huge and I fully agree
[22:36] with Wilfred here Oliver the industry
[22:38] the industry needs this I have a lot of
[22:40] questions and comments in the room I'm
[22:42] going to go to them but first I want to
[22:44] go back to Paul Henry Mata the reason
[22:46] why I want to go back to you Paul is
[22:47] because I'm a huge fan huge fan of f Fel
[22:51] Optics and I was very excited to hear
[22:54] that you mention fernel Optics in your
[22:56] presentation H could you check with us
[22:59] some some light on this what are the
[23:01] what are the key applications and what
[23:03] kind of challenges maybe you want to
[23:05] solve with Fel Optics FAL Optics it is
[23:08] very efficient so this is a good so in
[23:10] the past we use it a lot for I mounted
[23:12] stop lump especially because we need a
[23:14] lot of flux in the axis also for re fog
[23:18] for example but after homogeneity with
[23:20] frel Optics is not very good so when you
[23:23] want to design a signaling function
[23:25] because you know we want to have some
[23:26] very nice signature so you cannot use
[23:29] the frel Optics because homogeneity will
[23:31] not be good because you want to spread
[23:33] the light you do not want to focus the
[23:35] light so then we use now the fral Optics
[23:38] to cimate the light for example for the
[23:40] low beam and for an ey beam and then
[23:42] after you have another Optical module to
[23:44] spread the light but then we we use it
[23:46] just to cimate the light at the light
[23:48] source fantastic PA Henry I don't know
[23:50] you know Juran zosel the CEO of aaall
[23:53] the way from Jenna market leader Fel
[23:55] Optics Jurgen tell us what's on your
[23:57] mind maybe you have a question for po
[24:00] Henry uh oh we can't hear you this is
[24:03] the problem of doing the show live can
[24:05] we see we can maybe hear you H
[24:09] maybe let's try
[24:11] again unplug the headset just unplug it
[24:14] pull the
[24:16] cable and we can't hear you because you
[24:18] are not muted I think it's more H
[24:20] difficult problems before we go to Jan
[24:22] so he my my team is going to give you
[24:24] some instructions hear me yes we got
[24:26] hear yes okay
[24:28] every time if I'm not in teams to change
[24:32] so yeah we are uh working with the Fel
[24:35] Optics also for automotive and in the
[24:38] last two to three years uh we also did
[24:41] work uh for lightings and uh did start
[24:45] to bring in the first
[24:47] falces for this kind of lightings and in
[24:50] the last year we had also a lot of
[24:53] communication for example this uh
[24:55] material supplier company room
[24:58] and from them the det uh that they
[25:02] developed a new Plexi glass based to the
[25:04] 8N material which is uh now the optical
[25:10] HT sure if you know this material and
[25:14] it's completely developed for example
[25:16] for automotive areas uh which uh allows
[25:20] a temperature of 100 I think
[25:23] 105° so and this material is meanwhile
[25:26] also very interesting to to use it for
[25:29] example for friend Allens for this kind
[25:31] of
[25:32] applications and I think at this point
[25:35] we should start a short internal
[25:38] discussion to find out how we are able
[25:41] to support you so I I this is called
[25:44] things start after this meeting I want
[25:46] the two of you to speak and I will make
[25:47] it possible but Paul Henry before we go
[25:49] to the next speaker stay with us because
[25:52] there is something very big in Europe
[25:53] right now already sus micro Optics told
[25:55] us will FR that microoptics is growing
[25:57] like crazy
[25:58] and the biggest activity the legal
[26:00] entity fabulous the company fabulous has
[26:02] a CEO here in the room and is Rolando
[26:04] ferini Rolando what's on your
[26:06] mind thank you co I was also me
[26:10] messaging Oliver because I like very
[26:13] much what panda is offering because it's
[26:15] very close to what we want to realize on
[26:17] the on the pilot plan with our
[26:19] Marketplace so to build the entire
[26:21] production value chain and to help
[26:23] people to find the right producers when
[26:25] they need a micro Optical components in
[26:27] this case are free for microoptical
[26:29] components so I will try to explore
[26:31] which kind of synergy there can be
[26:33] between the pilot line and and Panda
[26:36] also because we are also all in
[26:38] Switzerland so it's easy also to
[26:41] discuss fantastic I'm also very excited
[26:44] of Pand actually I'm asking everyone in
[26:45] the chat to tell me privately or
[26:47] publicly as they prefer what they think
[26:49] about panda because I really think this
[26:51] is a huge opportunity for this industry
[26:54] Paul Henry stay with us we are going to
[26:56] come back to you but before we do that I
[26:58] want to move to the next speaker to have
[26:59] a bigger picture already painted in this
[27:01] fantastic meeting so we're going to go
[27:03] now all the way to one beautiful city we
[27:07] go to Aken in Germany we have Fran Hofer
[27:10] IP represented in the room by the head
[27:12] of Optics manufacturer in the health the
[27:14] department of Optics team gral team
[27:16] thank you very much for being with us
[27:18] from Fran Hofer IP the floor on the
[27:20] attention of everyone goes to you the
[27:23] floor is yours so thank you very much I
[27:27] was uh I was pretty glad that I wasn't
[27:29] the first speaker because I still had to
[27:31] recover from your from your Vivid
[27:34] introduction and and it also gave me the
[27:36] opportunity to put one very important
[27:39] bch still on the slides I hope you can
[27:40] see them uh this member of Epic I didn't
[27:44] appear in the first uh version but now
[27:46] it is on all right um today I'm going to
[27:51] talk about a little bit uh looking
[27:52] beyond the borders of precision class
[27:54] modeling so this is what what we are
[27:56] here in aen are dealing with and also
[27:58] Oliver from P also mentioned it that it
[28:01] is the best process that you can have I
[28:04] think that was the message that he
[28:05] wanted to
[28:06] deliver um so I think all of you might
[28:10] know frown Hofer we are 30,000
[28:12] researchers dealing with a lots of
[28:14] topics in terms of engineering and and
[28:16] life science and so on and uh another
[28:19] small margin is dealing with Optics and
[28:21] we in aen uh we deal with glass molding
[28:25] uh and just for recapitulation and just
[28:28] just want to show you how glass molding
[28:29] works that means we have got some
[28:31] dedicated glass uh preforms we put them
[28:34] into very pre precisely manufactured
[28:37] moldes we heat everything up together uh
[28:40] and then we have got these Pistons that
[28:41] move to each other and they will uh yeah
[28:45] cause the deformation of the glass
[28:48] preforms and and will lead them into
[28:51] their final shape so what we usually do
[28:55] uh every day in our department is that
[28:57] we start from an optical design and
[29:00] based on that we make a first simulation
[29:02] in order how how it will look like and
[29:05] how the cost will be in the end if it is
[29:07] feasible and so on uh and the main point
[29:10] that the simulation can tell us is how
[29:12] does or how should the tools look like
[29:15] the tools that will later uh on be
[29:18] manufactured in house um by means of
[29:22] ultra Precision grinding for example
[29:25] subsequently they will be coated
[29:28] and uh yeah afterwards the molding will
[29:30] take place and uh one aspect that is
[29:34] that is uh covering the whole process
[29:35] chain is actually Metrology and in the
[29:37] end we can say that we have got a ready
[29:39] to code optic or a ready to use
[29:42] optic so in this is this is as I said
[29:45] what we do every day but of course we
[29:46] are also facing yeah facing some some
[29:49] challenges uh that are mostly coming
[29:51] from industry and the first thing is
[29:54] that we want to increase in efficiency
[29:57] uh it is very obvious that glass will be
[29:59] always more expensive than polymer but
[30:03] we try to do something that even glass
[30:05] gets gets more and more cheaper so that
[30:08] means we can do yeah more more glass
[30:11] Optics in one shot for example two or we
[30:13] uh do even more like MTI cavity mod and
[30:16] here you can see uh I think these are
[30:19] nine nine cavities and we can also step
[30:22] uh to wafer lever glass moding where we
[30:24] just put a glass wafer into the molds
[30:26] and then we can uh manfacture hundreds
[30:29] of lenses in one shot but this is
[30:31] actually not what I'm going to talk
[30:33] about today I want to talk about another
[30:36] challenge which is called the increase
[30:37] in Precision so for just some
[30:40] impressions for you here you can see
[30:41] some some air spheres or some free forms
[30:44] or some micro Optics and we are already
[30:47] within fractions of a micrometer if you
[30:50] take a closer look at the peak to valy
[30:52] error and also the uh the roughnesses
[30:54] are in the single digit nanometer
[30:56] range um but we think that glass balling
[30:59] has got the potential to do even more in
[31:02] terms of precision more than for example
[31:04] grinding and
[31:05] polishing uh but before I come to that I
[31:08] will just tell you what what the problem
[31:09] actually is so if we just have a bigger
[31:12] picture in terms of object production we
[31:14] always have to take into consideration
[31:16] Optical design then the fabrication the
[31:19] Glass mod for example the coating and
[31:21] the assembly so and how does it normally
[31:23] work we start from an an idea we come to
[31:26] a specification sheet where everything
[31:28] is wrote down what we want to have we go
[31:30] to Optical design and the optical design
[31:32] tells exactly how much micrometer or
[31:35] nanometer we have in terms of tolerances
[31:38] in glass molding and assembly for
[31:40] example so that goes into uh the the
[31:43] manufacturing part and we start that
[31:45] with a Manu manufacturing report we do
[31:48] the assembly I've got inspection and so
[31:50] on and then we have got our usage phace
[31:52] and can trace everything backwards but
[31:54] as you might see the information volume
[31:56] is always decreasing and condensed to a
[32:00] very very small set of parameters they
[32:02] actually have nothing to do uh with the
[32:05] actual function of the vents so today
[32:07] I'm just going to explain you in in two
[32:09] minutes what we think could be the
[32:11] solution and later on this will be the
[32:12] discussion whether you think this is
[32:14] also feasible or actually uh worth being
[32:17] developed so actually uh glass molding
[32:20] is good for this approach because we uh
[32:23] can assess many things for example the
[32:26] dimensional deviations but also
[32:27] structural deviations we can calculate
[32:30] them in our simulation before and then
[32:33] if we go one step further for the
[32:34] coating we have got coating wall pitch
[32:37] and so on and everything of them we can
[32:40] put into our simulation and know how
[32:42] they will behave for example and if we
[32:45] know how they will behave we can
[32:46] directly Trace them back to the racing
[32:49] rate tracing software that we usually
[32:51] use in Optical design and another thing
[32:54] for example the alignment errors from
[32:55] the assembly they will also be trackable
[32:58] in the rate tracing software so that
[33:00] means we have got everything in one
[33:02] digital environment and this is what we
[33:03] would call the digital twin of the
[33:05] manufacturing system so that means if we
[33:08] have got everything in a digital
[33:10] environment uh we know already how the
[33:12] subsequent process steps will behave and
[33:15] we can anticipate them and the main
[33:17] benefit from that is that we don't need
[33:19] tolerances like nanometers or whatever
[33:22] anymore so what our goal will be is that
[33:26] this man uring system will directly give
[33:29] us the tool geometry the process
[33:31] parameters for molding and coating and
[33:34] not not a angular tolerance for the
[33:37] assembly but a light distribution
[33:38] directly and what we want to do with
[33:40] that is we do not want to have a a
[33:44] overall tolerance and all the
[33:47] differences have to all the different
[33:49] processes have to fit into this General
[33:51] tolerance we want to flip those
[33:53] tolerances and capabilities of the
[33:55] processes to the side and we will lay
[33:57] all those processes on one line so that
[34:00] even one if one process is not as
[34:02] accurate as the other we can still have
[34:05] got a perfectly working system in the
[34:07] end so this is basically what I just
[34:09] wanted to tell you and of course uh we
[34:13] are at Epic and now we always have to
[34:15] discuss what we can do for you and what
[34:17] you can do for us and that's what is
[34:19] displayed on this slide so what we can
[34:21] do for you is uh everything that has to
[34:23] deal with glass molding process
[34:25] development for example feasibility and
[34:27] cost St studies and optimization and
[34:29] digitalization and on the other hand we
[34:32] are a research uh Institute we do not
[34:34] have a running production so it would be
[34:36] very interesting for us to have got uh
[34:39] some some real life test STS in
[34:40] companies for example and we are always
[34:42] looking for industrial partners for
[34:44] publicly funded projects and of course
[34:47] we like to know what are the next level
[34:49] challenges that you um are facing and
[34:55] what you would like to uh have developed
[34:57] for example and that
[35:00] means if we talk I just presented to you
[35:02] something about digitalization and
[35:04] actually I would like to know from you
[35:06] now is that already a topic uh that you
[35:09] want to address in the next yeah few few
[35:13] month or years or whatever your short
[35:15] shortterm Horizon will be so thank you
[35:18] very much and now I'm open to questions
[35:20] of course thank you so much Tim for this
[35:23] very nice talk and uh the technology you
[35:26] showed us right now or dig
[35:28] digitalization technology you showed us
[35:30] right now did you specify a material
[35:32] there or what are the materials you
[35:34] think it's applicable for or just a
[35:36] glass yeah so we are right now uh um
[35:41] focusing on glass um but there are no
[35:44] limitations to to what type of glass
[35:47] maybe maybe of course fused silica is
[35:49] still a bit limited because it has got a
[35:51] very high forming temperature uh but
[35:53] going from shellite glasses to soda lime
[35:57] to low G and whatever this is all
[35:59] possible and of course we have got a
[36:01] department at frof for IP that is also
[36:03] dealing with injection
[36:05] molding and this is also possible in the
[36:08] future to expand this this model to this
[36:10] uh U similar
[36:13] process yeah thank you so much so um let
[36:16] me introduce you to micro resist in the
[36:18] room uh
[36:23] hi hello everyone I hope you can hear me
[36:26] so would you like to answer the question
[36:28] of
[36:31] Tim or or tell us also about micro
[36:34] resist yes we can hear you well what I
[36:36] can say is that micr technology is a is
[36:40] a material supplier for the polymers you
[36:41] know I don't know if if polymer and
[36:43] glass if we should compare
[36:45] the the number of the of the money you
[36:48] spend for the for the materials but what
[36:50] I would like to point out is that micro
[36:52] resist is offering rather intelligent
[36:54] raw materials right so we are not a
[36:56] supplier for the uh for the raw
[36:58] materials for injection molding rather
[37:00] than for the folks of uh sus who already
[37:03] spoke or orando felini from fabulous
[37:05] project and I think Neil also is in the
[37:08] room so we are supplying um intelligent
[37:10] photo resists which are used in micro
[37:12] nanop patterning technique so this this
[37:15] is a little bit different from what Tim
[37:16] just mentioned but whenever a micro and
[37:19] nanofabrication process comes into play
[37:21] Within the process chain then micro
[37:24] Technology based on its uh portfolio
[37:27] would be a right partner to talk to but
[37:29] we also here to learn about you know the
[37:32] the application requirements down the
[37:34] road what is needed by the partners of
[37:37] of v and of course also our region
[37:40] Partners such as forover
[37:43] institutes that would be my my quick
[37:45] answer to to that S without having a
[37:48] immediate let's say interaction to
[37:51] Tim okay there is here the place to make
[37:54] more interaction with them and there is
[37:56] always the chat that you can
[37:57] um use of course thank you for your
[38:00] comment uh we have also when we speak
[38:02] about material we have stepan from Dow
[38:04] stepan I have to hear your comment on
[38:07] this yeah hi thank you um yeah um
[38:11] similar to micro resist technology D
[38:14] also offers polymers not really related
[38:17] to class um and also not really
[38:20] comparable as we all know this is kind
[38:21] of a different universe but still uh we
[38:24] have some some advantages compared class
[38:27] and let me share my screen real quick so
[38:30] um what Dow does is we we not only offer
[38:32] um also Optical materials for
[38:34] replication which are TAA made in terms
[38:36] of the optical properties and can be
[38:38] used in the in the wafer level process
[38:40] um as as a rather large company we also
[38:44] offer adhesives which is our main
[38:47] business um for bonding of such
[38:50] components as for example micr lens
[38:52] arrays for active alignment and and
[38:55] headlamps um which are Reflow stable we
[38:58] also offer scattering materials we one
[39:00] step back for Led packaging um in in
[39:04] different areas we offer um materials
[39:06] for lens bonding frame bonding for diet
[39:09] um um electrically conductive AIS and
[39:12] you all get the stuff out of one hand so
[39:15] this is our expertise um everything out
[39:17] of one hand it's it's uh yeah it depends
[39:22] always on the application what you need
[39:23] and DOW is there to make a customer um
[39:26] specific um yeah solution just for you
[39:31] thank you thank you stepan I think it's
[39:33] nice to Jose would you like to go back
[39:35] to Volvo yes but before that I for me
[39:39] the materials are a key challenge I want
[39:40] to go back to team first Tim ER I think
[39:43] here is when we have to look at your
[39:45] Santa Claus Christmas letter we need to
[39:47] find out what is your wish list in terms
[39:49] of material tell us a couple of items
[39:52] there and we'll find them for you this
[39:54] is when we Excel but tell us what you
[39:55] really need what you really want
[39:59] yeah oh yeah I'm still I'm still unmuted
[40:03] okay yeah so my my my um my Christmas
[40:07] wish list it's very early for that so I
[40:09] didn't think about that in terms of
[40:11] Christmas um yeah of course we we are
[40:14] interested in in uh in in companies that
[40:17] are using glass Optics uh for I don't
[40:20] know also Automotive lightings we had a
[40:22] couple of project with that uh but also
[40:24] for for camera systems or for laser
[40:26] systems or whatever you can think of but
[40:29] we're also interested in um in some some
[40:32] polymer Technologies like exactly for
[40:34] example these these kind of of
[40:36] structuring yeah because there were
[40:37] always some possibilities maybe to
[40:39] transfer that uh one day to to those um
[40:43] higher melting materials like for
[40:45] example us and today today team when we
[40:48] were actually defining the supply chain
[40:50] you can see here that we actually Define
[40:52] separately the materials for for a glass
[40:55] and for polymer the reason for that we
[40:58] have two different sets of challenges
[41:00] and I think it's the best time to
[41:01] address them now because I had the best
[41:03] companies in the world on that first I'm
[41:05] gonna go to Finland I'm gonna go to
[41:06] Finland because I have here op Tech when
[41:09] it comes to Glass molding in my opinion
[41:11] they are the best H Kimo what brought
[41:13] you to this meeting and most important
[41:15] most important we have the presentation
[41:17] already from Volvo very interested on
[41:19] glass from IP very interesting
[41:21] partnership on glass what do you bring
[41:23] to the
[41:23] table yes we have a with op take a
[41:28] special kind of glass molding method
[41:31] this is called uh non-isothermal molding
[41:35] uh frown Hofer knows this very well
[41:37] because they have stud studying this
[41:40] this method for a long time this is not
[41:42] exactly a uh Precision molding so if you
[41:47] Google a glass molding you probably end
[41:50] up finding a lot of precision molding
[41:52] methods uh this is not that so uh I can
[41:56] immediately say that our tolerances will
[41:59] not be comparable to Precision molding
[42:02] but this is a really cost efficient way
[42:05] of of doing uh molded glass elements so
[42:10] what what is N nonisothermal means that
[42:12] the mold and the glass are at different
[42:15] temperatures so you don't need to heat
[42:18] up uh the mold as as for as high
[42:22] temperature as in in Precision molding
[42:24] so it's the cost efficiency is the key
[42:27] and I'm I'm really uh looking forward to
[42:30] to deepen our discussion with with crown
[42:33] Hofer uh in the in the in view of of uh
[42:37] doing more uh fully
[42:40] automated uh glass molding line most of
[42:44] the our process steps are already
[42:46] automated but it's not like like whole
[42:49] process is automated and here it it
[42:51] would be interesting interesting to to
[42:54] deepen our collaboration and and I know
[42:57] that in in Europe and in in Epic uh
[43:00] portfolio there are other ways that we
[43:03] can combine for example I I raise here
[43:06] leop pil and and and the various casting
[43:09] methods available so that uh because we
[43:12] don't have the really highend uh kind of
[43:16] a dimensional to tolerances but we can
[43:20] advance our our uh kind of a uh
[43:25] tolerances with the help of other
[43:27] techniques here in the table thank you
[43:30] very much Kimo and I also want to
[43:31] address right now with the people who
[43:33] spoke already and the ones who are about
[43:34] to speak the topic of turning systems we
[43:39] have the reason why I want to address
[43:40] this topic is because we do want to
[43:42] match what Panda told us in the
[43:44] beginning all the different
[43:45] manufacturing processes we have two of
[43:47] the key companies in Europe on that
[43:49] topic we have inite Christian Christian
[43:52] all the way from Aken I know team knows
[43:54] you very very well so it's not for team
[43:56] you are neighbors is for the others can
[43:58] you tell us a bit how you saw in the
[44:00] last years the development of of turning
[44:03] systems and how you see a growth on the
[44:06] different materials and different
[44:08] applications that you are actually
[44:09] taking to the
[44:11] market Christian is muted doing an honor
[44:15] to the Mac I got ordered on one hand you
[44:17] are muted on the other 700 members thank
[44:19] you Christian but you need to unmute
[44:22] yourself yes let me see we can unmute
[44:25] you bottom left to the zoom window
[44:27] there's a mute button just click on it
[44:30] there you go here now you can hear me
[44:32] I'm sorry I was talking to
[44:34] myself so uh this is about mold making
[44:37] and we've been talking about the
[44:38] replication but of course there's the
[44:40] question on how to to generate the mold
[44:42] and uh the diamond turning is a key
[44:45] process for the standard molded Optics
[44:48] mold
[44:49] manufacturing and uh as Tim has
[44:51] mentioned the uh the molds for polymer
[44:54] Optics can be made out of steel they can
[44:57] be made out of nickel phosphor they can
[44:59] also be made out of brass if there's low
[45:01] volume and all these materials can be
[45:03] Diamond turned quite easily um brass and
[45:06] and nickel phosphor directly steel there
[45:09] is there is good technology with
[45:10] Ultrasonics to
[45:12] cut um for the glass molding there is
[45:15] the uh the tungsten carbide that is
[45:17] usually being used as a mold insert and
[45:20] there's a lot of work in this field to
[45:22] actually enable
[45:24] also uh Diamond turning of tungsten
[45:27] laser assisted in order to substitute um
[45:30] the grinding technology the grinding
[45:32] technology is I would say it's a
[45:34] limitation in geometrical Freedom um the
[45:38] grinding is is a very complex process
[45:40] and the front over IP is developing
[45:43] grinding in a great way and they're
[45:45] experts in the field and nevertheless
[45:47] you have a a bigger radius just by the
[45:51] by the approach itself compared to a
[45:53] Diamond Tool and for new cell phone
[45:56] applic ations for example cell phone
[45:58] lenses made out of class there is the
[46:00] need for small small mold inserts made
[46:03] out of tungsten carbide and turning
[46:05] technology will have to answer these
[46:07] questions uh for the future that's my
[46:09] understanding thank you very much do you
[46:11] have a challenge for this room we have
[46:13] from the end users all the way to
[46:15] material suppliers everyone is here a
[46:18] challenge an itting a room for
[46:19] cooperation so I can make an
[46:20] introduction and do my job and sleep
[46:22] well tonight well the the challenge
[46:24] we've been talking about the materials
[46:26] for the Optics but there's also the
[46:27] challenge for the materials for the
[46:28] molds and these tungsten carbides or
[46:32] tungsten carbide Alloys behave very
[46:35] differently um if exposed to laser
[46:37] radiation and being treated by Diamond
[46:39] turning so uh I think there is a big
[46:41] challenge to have a new material class
[46:44] that allows for high productivity as Tim
[46:47] said in Machining High Precision um and
[46:51] high mechanical and thermal stability
[46:53] during the replication process so that's
[46:55] my my contribution to the wish wish list
[46:58] for for Christmas let's have new tanks
[47:00] and C materials that can be turned into
[47:02] great molds oh that's that's that's a
[47:04] good one and we're going to come to you
[47:06] on that but now before we go to Leica
[47:09] and I know you are all waiting to hear
[47:10] from Leica I need to go back to Paul
[47:13] Henry from Volvo because we have a
[47:14] question from you all the way from the
[47:16] YouTube channel all the way from Tokyo
[47:19] Sumitomo
[47:21] electric he's wondering does a smart
[47:24] high beam need a special op SS and have
[47:28] something to be solved he's talking
[47:30] about the challenges for your
[47:32] highbeam yeah yes I think I haveed I
[47:35] thinko is speaking about the HD
[47:37] technology with what we call Micro LED
[47:40] with 20,000 pixels something like this
[47:42] so I think the main issue for optical
[47:44] design is to to have a good contrast
[47:47] between the different pixel because we
[47:50] we should Define a cut of line so where
[47:52] we have light and where we have no light
[47:54] and the contrast is very important and
[47:56] when we have so many small pixels so
[47:59] this contrast can be difficult so we
[48:01] know we need a very good accuracy in the
[48:04] optical
[48:05] design thank you very much Paul Henry
[48:08] and I think you're gonna have to have a
[48:09] discussion with my friend joshan from
[48:11] sumito offline but there a company in
[48:14] Denmark a company is called Neil
[48:16] Technologies I think we have nichlas
[48:18] with us in the room nichlas what you
[48:20] have manag to do a business office to
[48:22] make to in the beginning being a company
[48:23] that make Masters but you manag to do
[48:25] wafer level nanooptics based on
[48:28] replications here we have the the the
[48:30] concerns of George saying okay we have
[48:32] to go to address other markets that are
[48:34] very targeted to to go from Individual
[48:37] lenses to waer level Optics what is your
[48:39] take on that what kind of room for
[48:41] cooperation could there be
[48:43] here um hello everyone so it's it's um
[48:48] it's a great question um when I heard
[48:51] you speak here uh Jor I I directly
[48:54] thought about one of our product
[48:57] categories the The Meta Optics because
[48:59] this is when you have a really Advanced
[49:01] absolutely optic element and you want to
[49:06] produce that on a wafer level scale
[49:08] that's really when when you can go to
[49:10] The Meta Optics so it basically solves
[49:14] this this problem and and the reason is
[49:17] that with metaoptics the complexity is
[49:21] the same no matter if it's a simple lens
[49:24] or if it's a difficult lens it's a the
[49:26] same level of complexity so once you
[49:28] master the uh production route of metal
[49:32] Optics you can make simple lenses and
[49:36] you can make advanced lenses and the uh
[49:39] the level of difficulty is the same I I
[49:43] also want to mention we we do uh
[49:46] diffractive Optics regular diffractive
[49:47] Optics that we do a wa level scale uh in
[49:51] UV curable materials from for example
[49:53] micro resist or Delo that would do
[49:56] diffusers fan outs cators and regular
[49:59] lenses and we can combine these
[50:02] different functionalities on the same
[50:04] chip we also work with future displays
[50:08] where we do slanted and blazed
[50:10] gratings um since this is about
[50:13] molding Optics I also want to mention
[50:16] that we have capability to apply micro
[50:19] Nano structures on curved surfaces so
[50:22] here's a steel insert where we have
[50:23] applied a micro Nano structure um um and
[50:27] you can also see here some examples of
[50:30] how these structures turn out after
[50:33] being injection molded so first example
[50:36] is a four level refractive optic with a
[50:38] minimum feature size around half a
[50:41] micron so this really small features and
[50:44] despite that they actually come out okay
[50:47] in the mold molded copy you do lose some
[50:49] Integrity in the structures but it's not
[50:52] that far from from being a solution then
[50:55] when it comes to mlas we have an example
[50:57] here with an MLA which has a nanor
[50:59] roughness and you can see an injection
[51:01] mold copy here with where the MLA comes
[51:04] out um but the nanor roughness is lost
[51:08] then we also tried this with with yui
[51:10] molding and um there the accuracy is
[51:13] much higher so this is an MLA on a
[51:15] curved surface um that was molded with
[51:20] u thank you nas wonderful yeah George
[51:24] this one Neil is one of the ones to
[51:26] watch George we're going to have a drink
[51:28] in five years and you will see that I
[51:30] was right this is one of the ones to
[51:32] watch in the Europe right now but I want
[51:34] to address another topic you talk very
[51:37] quickly about the glass touching the
[51:39] mobile phone market and on that we have
[51:41] Henrik mson from
[51:43] spio Henrik thank you very much joining
[51:45] the meeting today what's on your mind uh
[51:48] I just want to mention that um there has
[51:51] been some news on the W level Optics or
[51:54] W level production of mobile phone
[51:57] lenses I know that ASC and K just
[52:00] announced that they now producing W
[52:02] objects for mobile
[52:04] phones um but that's from my previous uh
[52:08] employment on on kollider um we are in
[52:12] Sp system we are doing wer level
[52:15] microoptics not in glass but on
[52:18] polymers
[52:19] I could show
[52:22] you small um go ahead we all went to
[52:26] know because we want to work with you
[52:27] George is as excited as I am okay yes
[52:31] absolutely let let let me say before you
[52:33] start yeah just in the me let me say a
[52:35] few a quick word to Nicholas yeah
[52:37] Nicholas I mean it would be wonderful to
[52:39] have like a doe or a meta surface for
[52:42] color correction yeah and so so if you
[52:44] have state-ofthe-art technology just
[52:46] please talk with us yeah and let's I
[52:49] will reach out to you
[52:50] through so SP yeah let's let's talk
[52:53] about that yeah okay SP is in young
[52:57] company we are doing our aim is to do W
[53:01] Optics but not only one layers but
[53:03] multiple layers so we want to Stack M
[53:06] Wafers into a stack so our idea is to
[53:09] make very Compact and very complex
[53:11] Optics on wafer level um in in
[53:15] polymer
[53:17] um so that that's our aim and now we are
[53:20] producing U single layers and we do true
[53:24] integrated objects we can do both lenses
[53:28] mirrors polarizations grings in in in
[53:32] one layer so so we we aiming doing very
[53:36] complex Optics in in in wer level um and
[53:39] also do stacking of w so we have yeah
[53:43] multiple layer
[53:46] optic processing on on wer level that's
[53:49] our aim and that's what we're working on
[53:53] um so that's the short uh message from
[53:57] from our
[53:59] side but tell me what kind of challenge
[54:01] what kind of cooperation you could see
[54:03] with the company so far in the room this
[54:04] is what I like this is a collaboration
[54:06] meeting Henrik okay we have we have a
[54:09] good source of of mastering we uh we we
[54:12] get masterings from from mpon Optics
[54:15] also in Denmark um The Challenge would
[54:18] be to to have it glue it together so we
[54:21] are searching for glue manufacturing of
[54:24] gluing components also uh we know that
[54:28] the the market has no uh stacking
[54:31] capabilities or equipment for stacking
[54:33] so uh anybody has experience in in in do
[54:38] multiple layers of waivers stacking
[54:40] alarming um that we are searching for
[54:44] for capabilities on that but also W
[54:48] level mity Ware level Metrology Ware
[54:52] level stacking we're going to make a lot
[54:53] of introductions there George back to
[54:56] back to you H we talk very quickly in
[54:59] your slide in your in the beautiful
[55:00] slide that s me like so much about the
[55:03] activities on on lens assembly and here
[55:06] when we talk about Ware level Optics
[55:08] people are very very very happy with
[55:10] passive alignment when you talk about
[55:11] micro lenses individual alignment we are
[55:13] very happy with active alignment could
[55:15] you share with us one one challenge one
[55:17] room for cooperation one thing that we
[55:19] could do maybe here
[55:22] together well well I mean I think the
[55:26] the the Big Challenge in the assembly
[55:27] will come when it goes to hybrid when we
[55:30] combine Plastics and glass lenses
[55:32] together and that could well come
[55:35] because the the industry requires more
[55:38] compact lenses yeah and when it goes to
[55:40] more compact then we usually talk about
[55:43] higher aspheric
[55:44] ratios and when we talk about higher
[55:46] aspheric ratios maybe at some lenses uh
[55:50] you will not manufacture in glass
[55:52] anymore maybe you then at the point will
[55:54] manufacture in Plastics is that the
[55:56] Plastics is durable and reliable and
[56:00] doesn't change in color and all these
[56:01] things
[56:03] yeah and there is one more company
[56:05] George that I want you to meet there is
[56:06] a company called glomer and glomer is
[56:10] here for the first time at an epic
[56:11] meeting Frederic welcome to the family
[56:13] Frederick H glommer was very interested
[56:15] in looking for partners and identify
[56:18] likea as a potential partner for them
[56:20] tell us here what you want to do you
[56:23] have end users from Volvo all the way to
[56:25] Glass manufacture ERS like shot many
[56:27] companies who can help you tell us what
[56:29] you do and most important how we can
[56:31] help you doing it even better thanks
[56:33] very much and thanks very much for
[56:35] having me here um very happy we we
[56:37] discussed so much already about classes
[56:39] which have these amazing material
[56:41] properties for Optics transparency
[56:43] stability and we have Plastics on the
[56:46] other side which are super easy to mold
[56:48] where we can get the high resolutions
[56:49] where we have scalable processes like
[56:51] injection molding and that's basically
[56:53] where we come in we are startup from
[56:55] Germany and we are class component
[56:57] manufacturers who found a way to make
[56:59] class structuring as simple and uh as
[57:03] efficient as polymer shaping therefore
[57:06] we have developed new materials which we
[57:08] term closomers which come for example as
[57:11] thermoplastic solids as a granulate we
[57:13] also have liquids photocurable
[57:16] liquids uh which are basically a mixture
[57:18] of a really high amount up to 85 weight
[57:21] perc uh of silica within a bindo matrix
[57:25] and you can shape these materials using
[57:27] classical polymer shaping Technologies
[57:31] so for example injection molding on an
[57:32] hour workg machine or uh two Photon
[57:35] polymerization on a nanoscribe system or
[57:37] up Nano
[57:38] system what you get out of the shaping
[57:41] process is a polymer component which is
[57:43] called the so-called creen part and then
[57:45] these components are put into an oven
[57:47] and are converted into class what you
[57:49] get in the end is high Purity highly
[57:52] transparent fuse silica glass with the
[57:54] same material properties of commercial
[57:56] fuse silica glass here down here I just
[57:59] want to show you some U of the
[58:01] Technologies which we recently have
[58:03] shown on the right side you for example
[58:05] see a 200 on 200 3D
[58:09] microoptical U lens which we have
[58:12] printed using two Photon polymerization
[58:14] and then turned into few silica class
[58:16] and this is our latest technology high
[58:19] throughput injection molding so in in
[58:21] the back you can basically see the green
[58:23] Parts which were injection molding with
[58:25] cycle times of a few seconds uh so we
[58:27] could make thousands of these within an
[58:29] hour and then they are basically
[58:31] converted all at once in a batch process
[58:34] to class within 20 hours um what we're
[58:38] currently looking for are Partners in
[58:40] the field of Optics photonics who have
[58:42] Innovative new products Innovative new
[58:46] components which they want to fabricate
[58:47] in classes and really specifically what
[58:50] I want to ask also today is we're
[58:53] currently in the application for
[58:56] project uh which uh where we want to
[58:59] roll out new Innovative Optical
[59:02] components for sensor applications so if
[59:04] you want to join if you're a European
[59:06] company and you want to join in that I
[59:09] would be happy if you send me an email
[59:10] or contact me uh yeah my email address
[59:14] and that's it thanks a loty to take
[59:17] question sensor
[59:19] manufacturer European sensor
[59:21] manufacturer who would like to take this
[59:23] to the next level that's correct right
[59:25] yeah
[59:27] Optical components micro Optical
[59:29] components everything around that so the
[59:31] the main topic is sensors but can be
[59:34] Optical components too fantastic because
[59:35] you know Wilfred from sus micro Optics
[59:38] has a question for you Wilfred what's on
[59:40] your mind um thank you for uh calling me
[59:44] up say I wonder what is the shrinkage
[59:46] typically of these materials so when you
[59:47] have a mold and uh so first of all it
[59:51] has to demold easily so that's more the
[59:53] chemical problem or CH chemical
[59:55] situation better and then and then the
[59:57] other thing is when you have shrinkage
[59:59] you have to do a lot of compensation
[01:00:00] Form compensation beforehand so we have
[01:00:03] the materials we use have in our imprint
[01:00:06] process typically have typically low
[01:00:08] shrinkage but the form compensation can
[01:00:12] already be challenging so if you have
[01:00:14] more than five or 10% it might be very
[01:00:17] challenging to pre-compensated those
[01:00:18] shapes in a single teration just wonder
[01:00:21] what your experience is yeah so I think
[01:00:23] it's two questions right so the mold is
[01:00:26] basically we can use stainless steel
[01:00:28] molds for the process for injection
[01:00:29] molding we also worked a lot what you
[01:00:31] can see up here with soft molds pdms
[01:00:33] molds um for UV casting processes during
[01:00:37] the shrinkage we have we have a
[01:00:38] shrinkage during the cing process but
[01:00:40] the shrinkage is extremely isotropic
[01:00:42] because we have ccal particles within uh
[01:00:45] the M Matrix so it's a little bit
[01:00:47] different from the classical ceramic
[01:00:48] injection molding um so shrinkage is
[01:00:51] isotropic our standard formulations have
[01:00:53] around 60 volume perc which then
[01:00:55] correlates to
[01:00:56] 15.6% linear shrinkage um but you can go
[01:01:00] up to 85 volume perc then you only have
[01:01:03] around nine 9% linear shrinkage but uh
[01:01:07] as we found so we did already defra of
[01:01:09] Optics refractive Optics with that uh
[01:01:12] diffractive Optics with a layer height
[01:01:13] of 250 nanometers for example using
[01:01:16] thermal Nano
[01:01:17] imprint I happy to discuss that further
[01:01:20] uh where you need an extremely high
[01:01:22] precise uh shrinkage compensation and
[01:01:25] that's quite easy because it's it's an
[01:01:27] isotropic shrinkage okay now we should
[01:01:29] keep talking another question in the
[01:01:31] room for you coming from T system maker
[01:01:34] and mold maker will he gmbh Andrea
[01:01:37] Shaffer what's on your mind um I was
[01:01:40] wondering during the cering process do
[01:01:43] you get any internal stress or things
[01:01:45] like this which might produce micro
[01:01:47] cracks because always when we have these
[01:01:49] postes where we go from for example from
[01:01:52] silica to glass with a during or
[01:01:57] physical process we always get topics of
[01:02:00] microcracks no so we don't have any
[01:02:02] microcrack processes for the I mean our
[01:02:05] standard material is Fus silica class
[01:02:07] that's also some because we have that
[01:02:08] low thermal expansion it's 0.5 to 10us 6
[01:02:12] you can basically heat it up as fast as
[01:02:13] you want and cool it down the fast your
[01:02:15] oven can go uh we even did microwave
[01:02:18] cing of that and you never will face any
[01:02:20] issues of basically internal stresses H
[01:02:23] if you make multicomponent classes you
[01:02:25] have the same as for all uh classes you
[01:02:28] basically have to temper at some point
[01:02:30] no I was wondering during the cing
[01:02:32] posess because during the cing poses of
[01:02:34] course you have normally some areas
[01:02:36] which are already uh of glass and some
[01:02:40] are still of the old polymer and there I
[01:02:43] thought could result internal stress
[01:02:47] Yeah so basically the the main trick
[01:02:48] behind our technology is we found a way
[01:02:50] to get rid of this binder which is
[01:02:53] before the centering process you have a
[01:02:54] debinding step where you remove the
[01:02:56] binder and we can do that either by a
[01:02:59] two-o step where you moove one component
[01:03:01] first you create a paracity but only a
[01:03:04] paracity in the binder through which you
[01:03:05] can afterwards burn off the organic uh
[01:03:08] this is mandatory because as as you said
[01:03:10] if you would use a Pure polymeric binder
[01:03:12] and you heat it up you turn a solid into
[01:03:15] a gas and that's normally called an
[01:03:18] explosion thank you very much this your
[01:03:20] first appearance I'm going to go back to
[01:03:22] George George it was your first ever
[01:03:24] epic meeting there's many people who ask
[01:03:26] me to be in contact with you there is a
[01:03:28] question in YouTube somebody saying can
[01:03:30] you consider laser Machining for
[01:03:32] prototyping of free form Optics don't
[01:03:34] answer that question yet I want you to
[01:03:36] see the next presentation by mik before
[01:03:39] you answer it we go all the way from to
[01:03:41] beautiful beautiful beautiful Barcelona
[01:03:43] Raul is here with us the CEO Michael R
[01:03:46] to tell us most important how we can
[01:03:48] help you do what you do even better than
[01:03:50] you already do
[01:03:51] it hello Jose thank you so much for for
[01:03:56] this presentation it's always a pleasure
[01:03:58] to be here can you see my screen very
[01:04:02] well go to a slideshow mode so we can
[01:04:04] see the quality that this Des perfect
[01:04:08] okay thank you so much okay I will I
[01:04:11] will speak today about the in this
[01:04:14] online technology meeting on molded
[01:04:16] Optics about the ftoc laser engraving is
[01:04:21] the job that we are doing in this kind
[01:04:22] of molds okay as said I am rul Garcia
[01:04:26] the general M manager of micro and I
[01:04:29] will explain in this presentation just
[01:04:31] one minute about who we are and what we
[01:04:34] do what a fc Laser Technology is as well
[01:04:36] just one minute and then we are going to
[01:04:38] focus directly on the mold micr
[01:04:41] structuring for lighting and mold
[01:04:44] texturing so that's our company we are
[01:04:47] based in Barcelona we are a workshop we
[01:04:50] are a service provider for industry so
[01:04:52] what we do is industrial engraving laser
[01:04:55] texture and laor micr structuring we are
[01:04:58] in the market since
[01:05:00] 1983
[01:05:02] and this presentation is based in the
[01:05:05] ftoc laser so what a second laser is FC
[01:05:09] laser is an ultra short PS duration
[01:05:12] laser There is almost no thermal effect
[01:05:14] over the material and thanks to this
[01:05:17] cold
[01:05:19] ablation H we can achieve micro
[01:05:21] engraving micro structuring texturing
[01:05:24] absolutely B free so absolutely under
[01:05:28] control we have here an sketch a
[01:05:30] comparison against the Nan laser where
[01:05:34] there are some uh some affection so H in
[01:05:38] terms of micr structurings we can create
[01:05:41] micro structures and free form micro
[01:05:43] Optics in temperate steel inserts both
[01:05:46] in flat surface or 3D shape benefits to
[01:05:51] obtain smaller details in a conventional
[01:05:53] mold so new design and functional
[01:05:56] possibilities regarding texturing we can
[01:05:59] texture inserts to achieve different
[01:06:01] properties like light diffusion for
[01:06:06] example so because of this cold ablation
[01:06:09] of the laser that we spoke before we can
[01:06:11] engrave micr structures absolutely
[01:06:13] birree with very good tolerances high
[01:06:16] quality surface finishing and with very
[01:06:20] sharp edges if we compare with the
[01:06:22] minimum size we can achieve using
[01:06:24] conventional Technologies like mailling
[01:06:25] machine we can achieve radius less than
[01:06:28] 10 times smaller than using those
[01:06:31] Technologies and because we are working
[01:06:35] from a cat file there are Limitless
[01:06:37] design possibilities we can engrave free
[01:06:40] form micro Optics and micr structures on
[01:06:43] mold inserts here we can see an example
[01:06:46] of those microspheres in high relief
[01:06:49] that's the finishing we can
[01:06:51] leave and even smaller here we can see
[01:06:55] some pyramids with a pitch 200
[01:06:58] Micron and not just on flat but also on
[01:07:02] big 3D shape inserts here we can see a
[01:07:05] lot of micro ovals from bigger to
[01:07:08] smaller
[01:07:11] sizes this is a this is a project we did
[01:07:15] for our customer daisa looks a very nice
[01:07:19] and Innovative company in the B country
[01:07:22] and in this case they designed this H
[01:07:25] free form micro Optics here H for their
[01:07:30] specific purpose so we engraved the mold
[01:07:33] insert using the ftoc laser you can see
[01:07:36] here an image of the insert and the
[01:07:39] final product injected and the
[01:07:41] comparison of simulated value versus the
[01:07:44] measured value value and photometry
[01:07:47] after the plastic injected part as an
[01:07:50] example of possibilities in the Seton
[01:07:53] 2020 for the signal mirror indicator
[01:07:57] customer wanted to achieve some specific
[01:07:59] texture in the blinker so we H engraved
[01:08:03] the pmma Prototype so because of this
[01:08:06] cold ablation of the laser we can
[01:08:08] engrave over any material so we work a
[01:08:11] lot for prototyping as well directly on
[01:08:13] pmma or PC then we textured the final uh
[01:08:17] inserts and we here can see the the
[01:08:21] product which is in the market in the SE
[01:08:24] Leon regarding a texturing functional
[01:08:27] texturing and regarding light diffusion
[01:08:30] 3 years ago with a project H trying to
[01:08:33] avoid the hot spot of the LED so H
[01:08:36] texturing the mold and injecting
[01:08:38] transparent pmma so we had some problems
[01:08:42] in terms of repetitivity and so on
[01:08:43] because we used nanc laser but two years
[01:08:46] later we began to study the possibility
[01:08:49] to create some Ruess in the mold using
[01:08:52] the ftoc laser to achieve this
[01:08:53] homogeneity
[01:08:55] for this purpose to achieve this light
[01:08:58] homogeneity okay so the important points
[01:09:00] we took into consideration for the
[01:09:02] design of textures was diffusion quality
[01:09:04] and luminance but also repeti ility and
[01:09:07] stability of the texture that's why we
[01:09:09] used the ftoc laser so bur is having no
[01:09:13] influence on the diffusion so it is a
[01:09:15] very controlled process and textures
[01:09:17] over any material and conditions here we
[01:09:21] can see the fusion in One Direction two
[01:09:23] direction or the homogeneous one
[01:09:27] and here we can see a comparison between
[01:09:29] the nanc laser and the ftoc laser so
[01:09:32] even we can see to micr structur that
[01:09:34] seems to be the same when we analyze
[01:09:36] with confocal microscope we see big
[01:09:38] deformation on the shape and the profile
[01:09:40] when using nond and very good definition
[01:09:43] when using ftoc the same here where we
[01:09:46] can see the difference in very sharp
[01:09:48] edges and very good definition of the
[01:09:50] sphere in the
[01:09:52] fenter to finalize with examples this a
[01:09:56] a test for our customer weight plus and
[01:09:59] they wanted to obtain a for a light
[01:10:02] guide application using micr structuring
[01:10:05] so for this light homogeneity all across
[01:10:08] or along uh the area so here we can see
[01:10:11] three textures engraved High Relief and
[01:10:14] three engraved low relief for this
[01:10:16] propose with very good homogeneous
[01:10:18] homogeneity as we can see in the images
[01:10:21] so to finalize we have confocal
[01:10:23] microscope and small photometry
[01:10:26] laboratory to obtain basic measurements
[01:10:28] because we are just um we are an
[01:10:30] engraving Workshop but to be able to
[01:10:34] deliver H the quality of the customer
[01:10:36] requires and to gain more knowledge all
[01:10:39] about this lighting ER possibilities so
[01:10:42] that's H that's everything thank you so
[01:10:45] much for your attention and please feel
[01:10:47] free to ask whatever I'm extremely
[01:10:49] impressed extremely impressed on how
[01:10:51] many success stories you have of of
[01:10:54] building High end Optics to customers
[01:10:58] all the way for the automotive so I want
[01:11:00] to go back to Leica as promise I want to
[01:11:02] go back to George and ask you the
[01:11:04] question that was with for you in the
[01:11:05] chat but after this presentation have
[01:11:07] you considered Ultra fast laser process
[01:11:10] for the manufacturing of free form
[01:11:12] Optics
[01:11:14] George I have you muted which is
[01:11:17] unfortunate H bot on left corner or the
[01:11:20] yes there you go so now that's it's good
[01:11:22] yeah uh no no we haven't that actually
[01:11:25] yeah uh it's it's really good uh to to
[01:11:28] consider this yeah I mean we we need to
[01:11:30] say we need to see whether in terms of
[01:11:33] accuracy in terms of hazing or so this
[01:11:36] is appropriate for the optical quality
[01:11:39] that we need uh but but let's give it a
[01:11:43] try huh why not
[01:11:46] absolutely that's the perfect answer
[01:11:48] right Raul now let me go back to you r i
[01:11:50] want to understand a bit we all heard
[01:11:53] already in the beginning from Volvo
[01:11:55] about about their challenges and we
[01:11:56] heard also from Hofer IP ER what kind of
[01:12:00] room for cooperation let me see if Paul
[01:12:02] Henry Mata is with us still for Henry is
[01:12:04] here with us as well let me see what
[01:12:06] kind of room for cooperation could we
[01:12:08] have with these companies tell us about
[01:12:10] the Epic
[01:12:11] question well finally what we can offer
[01:12:14] is this new technique of Engraving molds
[01:12:19] uh so there are new design and
[01:12:21] functional possibilities and what I
[01:12:24] would ask to the companies what you can
[01:12:27] do for us is finally Comm communicate
[01:12:31] with us just tell us the the problems
[01:12:35] your new proposes because maybe could be
[01:12:39] a a good solution for for that and maybe
[01:12:42] we can help you you know today we have
[01:12:44] in the room a company that offers like a
[01:12:45] One-Stop shop for all plastic Molding
[01:12:47] Solutions this compan is called it's
[01:12:49] called all in Optics and we have Lars
[01:12:51] nakot with us Lars what's on your mind
[01:12:53] what kind of room for cooperation can we
[01:12:55] do in this matching between macro and
[01:12:57] alling
[01:12:58] Optics yeah thank you uh very
[01:13:01] interesting also these main topics that
[01:13:03] were introduced so uh my question um was
[01:13:07] what what kind of limitation are there
[01:13:09] to the overall size um to the parts that
[01:13:13] you can engrave and maybe again some
[01:13:16] more details on let's say the the the
[01:13:18] smallest possible feature size that that
[01:13:21] you guys are able to do
[01:13:25] okay so regarding the smallest H details
[01:13:29] that we can achieve H we are comfortable
[01:13:32] in the range of dozens of microns so
[01:13:36] this is not comparable with some other
[01:13:38] technologies that H were before or like
[01:13:42] some companies that I can see here in
[01:13:43] the screen because we are comfortable
[01:13:46] working in the range of 100 200 300 400
[01:13:51] microns okay of P of structure for
[01:13:53] example we canot speak about nanometers
[01:13:57] and we cannot speak about a sphere of 10
[01:14:01] Micron diameter for example and
[01:14:03] regarding the biggest size of part that
[01:14:07] we can engrave it's a machine movement
[01:14:10] is 600 mm per 400 MM but we can stack
[01:14:16] the part in different ways so we have
[01:14:18] engra Parts bigger than one meter 1,000
[01:14:22] mm so it depends a little bit on each
[01:14:24] case
[01:14:26] thank you thanks thank you so much lar
[01:14:29] thank you rul uh when it comes to the
[01:14:32] material of the mold itself uh what type
[01:14:35] of molds you can produce as well because
[01:14:37] earlier we heard that the material of
[01:14:38] the mold itself is a challenge
[01:14:41] right well in our case we most of the
[01:14:45] cases 99% I would say we engrave
[01:14:48] directly on steel stainless or not
[01:14:51] stainless tempered not with coaching
[01:14:54] without it so there are a lot of
[01:14:56] variants but most of them are from steel
[01:15:00] and we have no problem to to engrave to
[01:15:02] engrave
[01:15:03] them thank you so much Raul let me see
[01:15:06] if we don't have another question in the
[01:15:08] room then there is another very large
[01:15:11] application of molded Optics is in the
[01:15:14] glasses and the wearables and we are
[01:15:16] very happy to have for the first time um
[01:15:19] as a speaker Shaq from cor Technologies
[01:15:22] Shaq
[01:15:25] you can unmute and we are looking
[01:15:27] forward to he about hear about the
[01:15:29] success story of
[01:15:31] Kur hi yeah hi good good yeah um I'm
[01:15:36] really happy to be here um I've learned
[01:15:39] so much already just today uh this this
[01:15:41] forum has really become uh you know a
[01:15:45] play a go-to for me to to learn new
[01:15:48] things and get get current with the
[01:15:50] industry um I'm uh
[01:15:55] why don't you just start sharing your uh
[01:15:58] your presentation we are very happy to
[01:15:59] we see that you join other meetings
[01:16:01] which is really good and today we want
[01:16:03] to hear your your success story and see
[01:16:05] how we can find collaborations with
[01:16:07] other members in the
[01:16:11] room okay I'm trying to get
[01:16:15] oh Sor I think we have maybe meanwhile
[01:16:19] Jose why don't you share with us loudly
[01:16:21] your comment that seems very interesting
[01:16:23] no no I just get excited this is one of
[01:16:25] the ones to watch the CEO got the pro
[01:16:28] the the the award of 30 under 30 it's a
[01:16:32] company is raising a lot of attention
[01:16:33] worldwide 150 degrees field of view 4K
[01:16:36] resolution I can't wait anymore the
[01:16:39] floor is yours thank you so um this is
[01:16:43] this is a kind of an exclusive Jose this
[01:16:46] is the first time we've showed this uh
[01:16:49] Concept in uh a you know outside a very
[01:16:52] narrow community so I'd be happy to have
[01:16:54] your feedback on how it looks okay wow
[01:16:59] excellent um let
[01:17:05] me there we go um this is the target of
[01:17:09] our uh of our um our device we call it
[01:17:14] gallium 150 degree field of view uh very
[01:17:17] lightweight 80
[01:17:19] grams um it's uh very high transparency
[01:17:23] so that you can use it in daylight and
[01:17:26] uh in
[01:17:27] telepresence uh 8K
[01:17:30] resolution very um crisp and clear uh
[01:17:34] we're going for a very wide range uh
[01:17:36] depth of field and uh very high
[01:17:39] brightness I'll show you a little demo
[01:17:41] at the end here um we're really focused
[01:17:45] on uh you know using a a geometric wave
[01:17:48] guide I piece you'll see a little
[01:17:50] picture of the Optics uh and uh you you
[01:17:54] know some of the the folks we've talked
[01:17:57] to today um have uh given us some input
[01:18:00] and we are looking forward to
[01:18:01] collaborating with them on on uh helping
[01:18:04] to make this uh more effective and and
[01:18:06] more cost you know focus on cost uh for
[01:18:09] these consumer
[01:18:11] electronics
[01:18:13] um we have uh head tracking eye tracking
[01:18:16] all integrated this will also support
[01:18:20] tethered and untethered uh operation
[01:18:22] okay
[01:18:27] um our headset uh you can see there this
[01:18:30] geometric uh wave guide um very
[01:18:36] efficient and uh gives us a very large
[01:18:39] uh
[01:18:40] eyebox um you've seen some Concepts like
[01:18:43] this uh in in other places but ours uh
[01:18:47] uh as as uh we go forward here you'll
[01:18:50] see that this is quite
[01:18:52] unique um we we've developed a custom uh
[01:18:56] micro LED display engine uh with a a
[01:19:00] custom back plane and uh we're working
[01:19:03] with microed manufacturers to generate
[01:19:07] uh the light
[01:19:08] engine uh enabled you know our our
[01:19:13] microed driver chip uh can demonstrate
[01:19:17] uh 8K
[01:19:19] resolution and uh we're really trying to
[01:19:22] focus on established Manufacturing techn
[01:19:24] Technologies and move towards a you know
[01:19:28] a um very costeffective device you can
[01:19:31] see we've got a few prototypes here
[01:19:33] Kelly's there on the on the right my
[01:19:37] preco haircut there on the
[01:19:40] left um we've had a a number of
[01:19:44] different things where we've uh
[01:19:46] demonstrated these uh these capabilities
[01:19:49] and are moving towards volume
[01:19:53] production um
[01:19:55] our LED display is going to you know
[01:19:58] gives us really true blacks and very
[01:20:01] high
[01:20:01] brightness um you know I don't think I I
[01:20:05] think that the the community here
[01:20:07] understands the AR applications and how
[01:20:09] how uh important those things are
[01:20:13] um are um you
[01:20:18] know you know I I I think that you've
[01:20:21] seen a number of different uh offerings
[01:20:24] in the indust
[01:20:25] and we think that this um this set of of
[01:20:29] of features will be very
[01:20:31] competitive uh and uh we have
[01:20:35] also are are able to accommodate uh you
[01:20:39] know the the current state-of-the-art in
[01:20:42] the LED or
[01:20:44] microed
[01:20:45] um industry where uh there there are
[01:20:49] still a lot of optimization going on for
[01:20:51] yield for other applications where we
[01:20:53] think that we'll be able to use these uh
[01:20:56] these designs earlier than
[01:20:58] others um we're about 24 people right
[01:21:01] now uh we're expecting to grow we're in
[01:21:04] the middle of a funding round and um as
[01:21:08] as we come out of that uh we'll be
[01:21:10] doubling
[01:21:11] that that head count very quickly um our
[01:21:15] gallium
[01:21:16] headset uh that I showed you earlier is
[01:21:19] uh due to launch the end of this year in
[01:21:22] uh you know this the focus is is really
[01:21:24] a global tele presence platform um so
[01:21:28] hopefully we can do these meetings using
[01:21:30] gallium someday
[01:21:32] soon uh we'll be ramping up our
[01:21:35] production in 2022 next year and uh
[01:21:39] we've got a number of companies that are
[01:21:41] quite interested in uh in getting uh
[01:21:45] access to this um see this is a a
[01:21:50] demonstration that we shot through our
[01:21:53] uh our lenses
[01:21:55] you can
[01:21:56] see uh that we've accomplished some good
[01:22:00] stuff here this is this is really fun to
[01:22:02] play
[01:22:05] with
[01:22:07] okay so
[01:22:09] um thank you for the chance to talk um
[01:22:13] um like I said I I really uh have
[01:22:16] learned a lot just today in in my role
[01:22:19] in sourcing and uh you've already done a
[01:22:23] lot for me in in this uh this form Jose
[01:22:25] so I want to really thank you for it
[01:22:27] okay thank you so much sha thank you for
[01:22:30] this fantastic presentation but let me
[01:22:33] tell you a thing about epic once you
[01:22:34] present what you can do you have to also
[01:22:37] tell us what can the others do for you
[01:22:39] or what kind of collaborations uh you're
[01:22:42] looking for particularly that you're
[01:22:43] responsible for the supply chain should
[01:22:45] know yeah um you know like I said I
[01:22:48] think that
[01:22:48] we've we've had a lot from this forum
[01:22:51] already uh I've I've made a number of
[01:22:54] connections with uh with your you know
[01:22:57] with the sponsors and some of the people
[01:22:59] already in this room uh we're we're
[01:23:03] really looking at multiple generations
[01:23:06] of uh technology uh this particular
[01:23:09] version is our is our launch and uh
[01:23:13] we're looking at the next uh two or
[01:23:15] three uh versions of this of this
[01:23:19] product and this and this platform and
[01:23:21] so we're looking at how we can make this
[01:23:23] more uh efficient more cost effective
[01:23:25] and move to uh better and and more
[01:23:29] advanced technology so um you know all
[01:23:32] of these display engines uh have
[01:23:35] multiple elements and uh there are many
[01:23:38] opportunities for us to collaborate with
[01:23:40] uh all of the Technologies represented
[01:23:43] here so thanks again um you know I'm
[01:23:46] open for any any kind of suggestions or
[01:23:50] um be glad to hear from anybody who who
[01:23:53] uh feels like there's opportunity to
[01:23:56] reduce our cost and and uh improve the
[01:23:58] performance of our product thank you let
[01:24:01] thank you let's let's see about when it
[01:24:03] comes to glare how can you reduce that
[01:24:05] we have Ral here from inop Ral what do
[01:24:08] you have in
[01:24:09] mind yeah thanks uh for having me here
[01:24:12] today and congratulations to Kura I
[01:24:16] think the data sheet is very impressive
[01:24:19] um with the 8K and also with the six
[01:24:23] Dimension um but I'm not sure if you're
[01:24:26] aware of the um we have been busy for a
[01:24:30] couple of years in the field of anti
[01:24:33] glare systems so whenever you would like
[01:24:36] to try out your glasses Outdoors even
[01:24:40] against the Deep standing Sun we are
[01:24:43] able to distinguish between wanted light
[01:24:45] and unwanted light so in other words you
[01:24:49] could suppress the sunlight by
[01:24:51] 98% while seeing your content which is
[01:24:55] the essential content you you need to
[01:24:57] see you want to see if this is somehow
[01:24:59] interesting for you let's engage and and
[01:25:02] see what we can do for you sounds very
[01:25:05] good Rob thank
[01:25:06] you you thank you thank you so much does
[01:25:09] anybody else have that question I have a
[01:25:11] question from the YouTube Universe all
[01:25:13] the way again all the way coming from
[01:25:15] Tokyo again sumito electric they have a
[01:25:17] question for you does 8K images need
[01:25:21] data transmission by cable
[01:25:25] um well the short answer is yes there
[01:25:28] there's a number of different things
[01:25:29] that we're doing to uh you know to use
[01:25:32] video compression to make make the uh
[01:25:36] the driver efficient um I'd be glad to
[01:25:39] talk you with with you offline that's
[01:25:41] that's a pretty deep technical
[01:25:43] discussion to to get into
[01:25:45] here all right now for me this is I
[01:25:49] would like to tell you shakan this is
[01:25:51] this is the the core a know how of Kura
[01:25:54] on the on the video compression that
[01:25:56] they are doing and on that they had the
[01:25:58] golden egg and I'm quite amazed that you
[01:26:00] came here sharing looking for
[01:26:02] Partnerships here I would like to to ask
[01:26:04] you something else if you we are talking
[01:26:07] about multi Optics today uh one of the
[01:26:10] problems that we do normally have with
[01:26:12] this technology is the need for high-end
[01:26:15] filter Solutions is there any item in
[01:26:17] your Santa Claus Christmas list any any
[01:26:20] wavelength band that you would like to
[01:26:21] filter out and you would like to do this
[01:26:23] in a theme fing in a fantastic
[01:26:25] professional
[01:26:26] way um you know I I have to I'd have to
[01:26:30] you
[01:26:30] know push that question to our technical
[01:26:33] Team Jose um I you know they that that's
[01:26:40] a good question that that uh I you know
[01:26:42] we're we're looking at a number of
[01:26:44] different technologies that improve the
[01:26:47] performance of the this whole uh Optical
[01:26:51] staff um but you can see that we've made
[01:26:54] a a pretty good progress in simplifying
[01:26:57] the stack and getting it getting it down
[01:26:59] to the fewest number of interfaces so
[01:27:01] each of those interfaces become more
[01:27:03] important and so yeah there are um
[01:27:06] opportunities for for better codings and
[01:27:09] uh better um you know better Optics we
[01:27:14] have another question for you coming
[01:27:15] from ABC engineering sandip what's on
[01:27:18] your mind uh yeah uh it is nice to
[01:27:23] participate in this presentation uh the
[01:27:25] webinar uh quickly I just want to know
[01:27:28] we are into the field of LED lights we
[01:27:31] mostly use light housings with
[01:27:33] reflectors to focus or spread the light
[01:27:36] onto the task or the object now are
[01:27:39] there any specific advantages of using
[01:27:42] lens as office uh Vis is the
[01:27:47] reflectors um I don't know I couldn't I
[01:27:50] couldn't answer that I'm not sure I
[01:27:53] understood the question myself but maybe
[01:27:56] when it comes to to the to to this maybe
[01:27:59] we'll address it offline I would like to
[01:28:00] go to leop Ral LS from he's the CEO of
[01:28:04] lilon one of the companies who have
[01:28:05] helped many members in the optical
[01:28:07] design challenges Ralph when you saw the
[01:28:10] presentation from Kura Technologies of
[01:28:12] course I know some of your customers
[01:28:13] have developed weight guiding technology
[01:28:15] that is very very interesting but how
[01:28:17] how do you think we could help a very
[01:28:20] very promising company focusing on the
[01:28:22] 8K resolution but we're going to make AR
[01:28:25] goggles how can we help them Ralph a
[01:28:28] mute most important because I want
[01:28:29] everyone to hear your voice you're one
[01:28:32] of the biggest Optical experts I know so
[01:28:34] yes thanks yeah but well we haveen we
[01:28:37] haven't really um found the the the Holy
[01:28:41] Grail on how to get AR really moving but
[01:28:46] then um I I guess the the optical
[01:28:49] quality is a problem and and the and the
[01:28:52] field of view is always an issue so when
[01:28:54] you you you need to have Optics that are
[01:28:56] high quality and that's I think where we
[01:28:59] where we are all standing for that's
[01:29:01] what we can do you you have to have them
[01:29:03] shaped right which is which is something
[01:29:06] most people can't cannot yet do but I
[01:29:09] guess um with with um with processes
[01:29:12] like casting that that would be that
[01:29:15] would be uh easily
[01:29:18] possible you're already there right um I
[01:29:22] mean we we we can do we can do does on
[01:29:24] it if you need that no they don't need
[01:29:27] that but r Wait wait because Ralph and
[01:29:29] and chck I want the two of you to be
[01:29:31] here because now I'm gonna open a
[01:29:33] triangle I'm going to Ross Stanley from
[01:29:35] Opti Ross because this is the question
[01:29:38] Ross ask the question because I want to
[01:29:40] hear from the optic expert Ralph and
[01:29:42] from the success story Kura technologist
[01:29:45] if there is an answer for that yeah sure
[01:29:48] the the 150 degrees field of view is a
[01:29:51] real challenge particularly using weight
[01:29:54] guides because you have some fundamental
[01:29:56] limitations of how you're going to get
[01:29:58] that do you can you reveal how you're
[01:30:00] going to going to get
[01:30:01] there well you know all of all of this
[01:30:04] technology is is still pretty well uh
[01:30:07] protected and so we're not we're not
[01:30:10] sharing IP in this particular meeting um
[01:30:16] okay I I I fully fully understand that
[01:30:19] please please don't I don't want to have
[01:30:20] any issue but but okay but back to back
[01:30:24] to chck we talk about this technology
[01:30:27] being the the instrument of of of the
[01:30:30] future for me I am amazed of what you
[01:30:31] want to do but I would like to to tell
[01:30:33] us if we had this meeting maybe in three
[01:30:35] years what do you think what kind of
[01:30:38] things do you think you would have
[01:30:39] accomplished by by then the company's
[01:30:41] alive for six years and I cannot I
[01:30:43] cannot really tell you enough how
[01:30:44] impressed I am of the last six years but
[01:30:47] what is the next step and and tell us
[01:30:50] dream away with us what is going to
[01:30:51] happen I think you'll be seeing I think
[01:30:53] that if we were to present here in three
[01:30:54] years you're going to see you know two
[01:30:56] or three generations past this um that
[01:31:01] are on the drawing board and and uh
[01:31:03] being being developed in the background
[01:31:06] so we're taking this concept and
[01:31:08] continuing to develop it out into the
[01:31:10] future and there's a number of different
[01:31:12] degrees of freedom to exercise here um
[01:31:15] you know where where we see LED
[01:31:18] technology advancing where we see this U
[01:31:21] the micro Optics advancing and and uh we
[01:31:25] think the the fundamental concept is a
[01:31:26] good one and has uh long legs in terms
[01:31:29] of uh you know continued
[01:31:31] optimization um but I think you'll see
[01:31:34] us you know continue to to build on on
[01:31:37] this this capability make it lighter and
[01:31:40] stronger and uh and more cost effective
[01:31:43] I cannot say it enough we had the best
[01:31:45] the best microoptics technology
[01:31:48] worldwide right now in the AP Community
[01:31:50] we work very hard for that we build a
[01:31:53] fantastic Fant community on this Ralph a
[01:31:55] final comment for for Cura for the rest
[01:31:58] of the speakers yes um also to Charles
[01:32:01] um uh we have seen uh many layer
[01:32:05] structures nowadays because if you want
[01:32:07] to add um correction glasses to your um
[01:32:10] AR system some might need correction
[01:32:14] glasses um what we see is that we need
[01:32:18] better coachings as well um of course
[01:32:21] The Usual Suspects like
[01:32:24] size they know how to do anti anti
[01:32:27] scratch but I'm wondering if there's
[01:32:29] anybody here in the room who could offer
[01:32:32] something new on the future Horizon in
[01:32:35] the field of uh antifog and anti- coping
[01:32:39] this is a very underestimated field as
[01:32:42] you see even nowadays when you wear your
[01:32:45] mask your your glasses are immediately
[01:32:48] full of fog and you cannot see anything
[01:32:51] is is there anybody here who could offer
[01:32:53] new coaching for the
[01:32:57] future you know what for me I I am I am
[01:33:01] not aware of a solution for that but
[01:33:03] what aw is we have one of the best
[01:33:05] coding suppliers worldwide in the room
[01:33:07] we have Hoya Oliver post so Oliver is
[01:33:10] still here with us Congratulations by
[01:33:12] the way on your new job your first ever
[01:33:14] epic meeting on Hoya you are already an
[01:33:17] epic VIP for your previous position ER
[01:33:19] Oliver you heard a lot of stories in the
[01:33:22] last two hours and you also The
[01:33:24] Challenge from ATI falling coding from
[01:33:27] from inop Tech what do you bring to the
[01:33:29] table and what kind of cooperations can
[01:33:30] we do with
[01:33:33] you you are
[01:33:35] muted yes as a as Oliver from Pand is
[01:33:40] telling you are muted which is yes now
[01:33:42] we can hear you no we cannot hello now
[01:33:45] you can hear me yes I can but y thanks
[01:33:49] uh I I heard a lot of very interesting
[01:33:51] things usually say that but really mean
[01:33:54] that and what I what I my impression is
[01:33:57] at that the glass community and the
[01:34:00] Plastics with all the variety inside
[01:34:02] Community huh is merging not only in
[01:34:05] terms of nanometers with swimming
[01:34:08] silicon and Plastics but also in terms
[01:34:10] of applications and Technologies and for
[01:34:13] that I think it's it's worthwhile or
[01:34:16] it's very important to zoom out of all
[01:34:19] the technology details and start to
[01:34:22] discuss about the the the connecting
[01:34:24] field the overlap so to say huh what is
[01:34:27] the strength of this and that and and
[01:34:29] how can I as optic designer decide in
[01:34:32] which pool swimming pool I should jump
[01:34:35] Plastics or glass and and tools like we
[01:34:38] have are one step in that direction they
[01:34:40] don't go into too much detail but they
[01:34:43] the general rule in the beginning should
[01:34:45] I ask for a budgeted uh project in this
[01:34:49] direction or that direction this is the
[01:34:51] goal I think fantastic Oliver from
[01:34:54] Oliver FAL to Oliver Hoya we talk about
[01:34:58] one of the leading coating suppliers
[01:35:00] worldwide Hoya Oliver tell us do you
[01:35:03] have a a a solution for for Ralph on the
[01:35:06] anti falling counting and is there what
[01:35:08] do you bring to a table to this
[01:35:10] community actually not so but I
[01:35:14] participate in meing because we made
[01:35:16] last Lo l so I'm here to learn about
[01:35:18] that we make codings but these are
[01:35:21] interference codings for filters but no
[01:35:25] I'm sorry about that but but Ral I'm
[01:35:27] going to take your challenge it is five
[01:35:29] minutes to five I think it is time to
[01:35:32] close this meeting I would like to say
[01:35:33] that I always close the meeting with a
[01:35:35] with a summary of learning points from
[01:35:37] the meeting but today Leica made it very
[01:35:39] very easy for me because the fact that
[01:35:41] we they're coming here looking for
[01:35:43] expertise and help on all these four
[01:35:46] different sector from the optical design
[01:35:48] to lens manufacturing lens assembly and
[01:35:50] lens characterization from wafer level
[01:35:52] Optics to free form Optics from
[01:35:54] combining different Technologies and
[01:35:56] different materials that was gold to
[01:35:58] this huge room for cooperation that's
[01:36:00] why I'm going to dedicate the somebody
[01:36:02] slide to likea today was great to have
[01:36:04] you in the room and also all the others
[01:36:06] you were all fantastic you know what I
[01:36:07] want to say I always say the same thing
[01:36:09] the meeting looks like it's finished now
[01:36:11] because it is 5:00 it looks like it's
[01:36:13] finished now but it's not the most
[01:36:15] important part of the meeting starts
[01:36:18] right now it's when you follow up so you
[01:36:20] want to get in touch with any of the
[01:36:21] participants today drop me an email host
[01:36:23] adep aso.com and I will be so happy for
[01:36:27] making this introduction and also
[01:36:29] remember that today only M season of the
[01:36:32] Season 4 all the online technology
[01:36:35] meetings that we're organizing already
[01:36:37] 100 since the pandemic started 100 I
[01:36:40] want them to look at I want you to look
[01:36:42] at them and register as soon as possible
[01:36:44] to Optics next week is orology into Las
[01:36:47] micr Machining in four weeks we have
[01:36:49] human Centric lighting and application
[01:36:51] pixels we have beginning of June 14th of
[01:36:53] June
[01:36:54] surgery and in 28th of June we have
[01:36:56] different photonic Solutions we fin with
[01:36:58] laser cutting here on behalf of
[01:37:01] fantastic team of experts that work at
[01:37:03] Epic and dedicate our life to you to the
[01:37:06] Epic members stay healthy wash your
[01:37:09] hands wear a mask and get vaccinated
[01:37:11] even with asica because I can't wait to
[01:37:13] start traveling again see you soon
[01:37:16] byebye