# EPIC Online Technology Meeting on 3D Printed Optics: State of the Art and Applications

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft_FH7BRnu0

[00:00] three o'clock here in the netherlands in
[00:02] north pike next to the sea and i must
[00:04] say that today we're addressing one of
[00:07] the hottest topics
[00:08] in the story of photonics where we are
[00:11] talking about 3d printed optics for the
[00:14] tens of people in the zoo room the
[00:16] hundreds the 120 companies who
[00:18] registered and gave input for the
[00:20] meeting today and the thousands of
[00:22] people who are joining this meeting from
[00:24] youtube and they're gonna watch now or
[00:27] later at any time before we start the
[00:29] meeting i have to tell you one thing
[00:31] i've been traveling again like crazy
[00:33] i've been talking to many companies many
[00:35] epic members the scarcest material in
[00:38] your industry is not titanium platinum
[00:42] gold or tungsten the scarcest material
[00:44] in your industry is people is talent so
[00:48] i hope that all of you
[00:50] are either employees that are happy at
[00:53] their job or employers that provide a
[00:56] safe and happy place for people to work
[00:59] because this is an employee's market if
[01:02] any of you is not happy with their
[01:03] position find another job this industry
[01:06] is desperate for having you and i'm
[01:08] desperate to start a meeting today
[01:11] ladies and gentlemen
[01:12] 3d printed optics
[01:16] asml is the biggest success story in
[01:19] europe in equipment manufacturing for
[01:22] semiconductor production if you want to
[01:24] see how they took the market away from
[01:27] canon and nikon i recommend watching
[01:31] this video but today i want to tell you
[01:34] about what i believe could be the next
[01:36] success story in manufacturing equipment
[01:39] and that is
[01:41] 3d printing of optics
[01:43] creativity is indeed the engine behind
[01:46] technological evolution wise words from
[01:49] fenton princio nicoleta casanova
[01:53] the trend in smart devices is smaller
[01:57] cheaper with an exponential increase in
[02:00] complexity it's done by integrating
[02:02] fluidics optics mechanics and
[02:05] electronics into a smaller volume but
[02:08] there is a paradox to produce small
[02:11] things you need large high maintenance
[02:14] infrastructure up to 95 percent of the
[02:17] energy budget of a clean room is simply
[02:20] to control the air that's incredible or
[02:23] maybe not on monday november 15th we
[02:26] addressed a booming field of 3d printed
[02:29] optics and it really is booming now
[02:31] nanoscribe was acquired by ceiling a
[02:34] pharmaceutical bioprinting company
[02:36] multiphoton optics was acquired by
[02:38] heidelberg instruments in a smart move
[02:41] having both additive and substructive
[02:44] manufacturing for micro printing of
[02:47] optics under the same roof vanguard
[02:49] photonics thanks the collaboration with
[02:52] pikontek and the pixa pilot line moved
[02:55] the technology forward for the packaging
[02:57] of photonic integrity circuits and even
[03:00] newcomers such as the italian app nano
[03:04] have attracted major interest
[03:07] and when it comes to optamic optics
[03:10] another huge breakthrough happened in
[03:12] europe in 2021
[03:15] dutch company lux excel started
[03:18] production of 3d printed prescription
[03:21] glasses today they are the only company
[03:24] in the world that can't do this but in
[03:26] the same way that esml success story was
[03:29] built around cooperation with strong
[03:31] partners think about the twin scan the
[03:35] immersion process or the early move to
[03:37] extreme uv
[03:39] these companies in 3d printing optics
[03:41] also need powerful partners to enable
[03:44] the next generation and here are some of
[03:47] my thoughts
[03:48] and in the two photon polymerization
[03:50] process there are two secret ingredients
[03:53] in the recipe the polymer material and
[03:56] the femtosecond laser used for locally
[03:58] scribing the structures tunability of
[04:01] the pulse length and accurate bin
[04:03] shaping having always items in their
[04:06] santa claus christmas list
[04:09] and for the 3d printed optics by looks
[04:11] excel part of their success is because
[04:14] of the smart integration with
[04:16] electronics look at these electrochromic
[04:19] lenses turning your glasses into
[04:22] sunglasses instantly or the integration
[04:26] with augmented reality enabled optical
[04:28] waveguides so you can have for the first
[04:31] time prescription glasses with augmented
[04:34] reality
[04:35] partners are essential for success and
[04:38] when industry needs partnerships is when
[04:41] epic really is epic
[04:43] do you need faster turnaround time
[04:46] regular production or prototyping of
[04:48] optics or micro optics do you want to
[04:51] propose your photonic technology as
[04:53] enabler of this success do you want to
[04:56] integrate your electronics or fluidics
[04:59] with the next generation optical
[05:01] elements or do you want to invest in the
[05:04] next big thing in manufacturing
[05:06] equipment do not forget to register
[05:09] online at the epic website i'll be
[05:11] watching out for you on 15 november at 3
[05:14] p.m
[05:16] ag it is 15 november at 3 p.m you know
[05:18] many people are asking me are you acting
[05:20] do you really feel that excited about
[05:22] optics and microptics i'm a really
[05:24] really really bad actor i think i'm a
[05:27] better scientist and actor and i no
[05:29] longer need her but i'm a really bad
[05:31] actor do not hire me for a position at a
[05:33] movie company today we are talking to
[05:36] 750 epic members for the next generation
[05:40] micro optics from equipment to
[05:41] manufacturing thank you very much all of
[05:44] you and what i do with all of you and
[05:46] the rest of the epic stuff 15 people we
[05:49] welcome elyseenda our new marketing
[05:51] manager 50 people dedicating their life
[05:53] to this industry is to know each of you
[05:56] individually and many of you already
[05:57] know epic organized events provide
[05:59] access to your network help you raise
[06:00] capital we have the biggest question to
[06:02] find you in photonics job symphony.com
[06:04] and thanks to our market strategist trey
[06:06] sivany we provide you with exclusive
[06:08] market data today we are at the almost
[06:10] by the end already of season five time
[06:13] flies i can already tell you as a
[06:15] teacher season six will be announced
[06:18] later on this week but today we are
[06:20] talking about 3d printed optics have a
[06:22] special attention to the meeting on the
[06:24] 6th of december medical device
[06:27] manufacturing in europe that's going to
[06:28] be fantastic but also for those of you
[06:31] who are active in quantum technologies
[06:33] on the 1st of december we talk about
[06:35] large scale cubitty generation with
[06:37] psych quantum and companies alike in the
[06:40] room do not miss that one today i would
[06:42] like to first of all acknowledge the
[06:44] sponsorship of two sponsors today first
[06:48] coming all the way from finland modulity
[06:51] you're looking for a supplier of
[06:53] semiconductor lasers modular provides
[06:55] growth packaging and only way to provide
[06:58] finance solution to the end users
[07:00] success story in finland in europe and
[07:03] second shoes micro optics all the way
[07:06] from new shuttle they provide advanced
[07:08] micro optics manufacturing free form
[07:10] optics at wafer scale success stories
[07:13] european micro optics revolution i would
[07:16] like to also acknowledge your
[07:17] cooperation or strategic cooperation
[07:20] with uk metamaterials network at last
[07:22] but definitely at least our media panel
[07:25] electro optics thank you very much for
[07:26] promoting everything that we do at epic
[07:30] today i'm going to be co-chairing this
[07:31] event with our experience optics
[07:33] manufacturing dr panos vergiris and we
[07:36] have a fantastic agenda look at that
[07:38] agenda director technologist a ceo cso
[07:43] co-founder with we talk to the companies
[07:47] at the highest possible level because
[07:48] this meeting is about cooperation these
[07:51] people come to the meeting to find
[07:53] potential cooperation with the rest of
[07:55] you today 120 companies registered for
[07:59] this meeting 120 companies and panels
[08:02] and i took the time to separate them
[08:04] into different parts of the supply chain
[08:06] so we have the entire supply chain here
[08:08] system integrators equipment
[08:10] manufacturer laser developers process
[08:12] suppliers materials everybody is here
[08:15] please make sure that on the next two
[08:17] hours on the next two hours you scout at
[08:19] least one or two business leads that
[08:21] will make this meeting helpful and for
[08:23] those of you who are watching this
[08:25] meeting in youtube
[08:26] i have to say that if you want to get in
[08:28] touch with any of the participants today
[08:30] what you have to do is send me an email
[08:32] jose.epicdustassa.com and i will make
[08:34] sure that you are formally introduced
[08:36] and this of course also valid for people
[08:39] with me in the zoom room 120 companies
[08:42] registered for the meeting today if you
[08:44] want to get in touch with any of them
[08:45] please contact me and i will make the
[08:47] introduction but most important
[08:49] definitely most important if you are
[08:52] here at the meeting you you're here
[08:53] meeting to find new friends we have an
[08:55] internal chat so use it abuse it i want
[08:57] to see you typing i want you to get in
[08:59] touch with each other on the next two
[09:01] hours we are here not only to find out
[09:03] our technology trends but to answer the
[09:06] epic question what can you do for the
[09:07] others and what can they do for you and
[09:09] to start the meeting i want to welcome
[09:11] to the room a new friend of mine i
[09:13] talked to her already for a few months
[09:16] because she wants to bring the entire
[09:17] industry together in the uk for the
[09:20] materials manufacturing and she's
[09:22] engaging end users and i said to ania
[09:24] well we had the same job you have to
[09:26] come here tell us what to do and bring
[09:28] one of your end users to see if what are
[09:30] their met needs i welcome to the room
[09:32] for the first time in many many many
[09:34] times when we talk about metamaterials
[09:36] he's going to be honest with us anya
[09:38] rudin director of the uk metamaterials
[09:41] network all the way from the uk anya
[09:44] good afternoon tell us what you do and
[09:46] introduce the end user that came with
[09:49] you to talk about 3d printed optics
[09:53] thank you very much for having us today
[09:56] i am so delighted to be here it's a huge
[09:58] pleasure um i just noticed that one of
[10:01] my technical speakers actually did not
[10:03] receive the invitation to this meeting
[10:05] so um i'm all on my own um let's see how
[10:07] that goes
[10:08] um
[10:10] right let me share my screen with you
[10:12] just to introduce meta materials to you
[10:14] um
[10:19] there we go
[10:23] hold on
[10:24] no
[10:25] oh i'm so sorry technology issues in the
[10:28] background i'm sure you can manage oh
[10:31] it'll be all right
[10:32] so
[10:33] well let's
[10:37] have another obsess share screen press
[10:39] it i think you are in business already
[10:41] yes perfect there we go okay marvelous
[10:43] so um the uk meta materials network is a
[10:46] very new initiative we only started in
[10:48] march this year and i don't know whether
[10:50] any one of you is familiar with the
[10:52] concept of metamaterials yet um but meta
[10:55] materials um are basically structured
[10:57] materials
[10:59] that
[11:00] are technology enablers so they are made
[11:02] from metals or plastics and they derive
[11:04] their specific functionality um to
[11:07] control waves energy and information
[11:09] through the way they are arranged so
[11:11] their shape their geometry the size
[11:13] orientation their density
[11:15] um
[11:16] why they are important
[11:18] you may or may not be interested in
[11:19] these figures and obviously you know
[11:21] with all market reports take them and
[11:22] you're sold
[11:24] but the meta materials market is due to
[11:26] increase massively in the next five
[11:28] years so um there is a huge huge
[11:31] opportunity here to utilize this these
[11:34] technologies enablers to make for
[11:36] example um
[11:38] antennas lighter smaller faster to
[11:41] help with holographic displays this
[11:43] place um
[11:45] to make materials very very strong for
[11:47] um
[11:49] use in harsh environments
[11:52] to utilize noise measurement here's for
[11:54] noise control and high resolution
[11:56] imaging
[11:57] so they have huge application potential
[12:00] um and we decided in the uk that we need
[12:03] to have a
[12:05] network that brings together academia
[12:07] and industry to really um
[12:10] build the bridge to get the metro
[12:12] materials out of the labs into
[12:15] the technology applications
[12:17] um
[12:18] so what we would like to do
[12:21] in this forum is we just raise awareness
[12:23] that metric hairs are out there if
[12:25] you're not already aware of them it
[12:26] probably may be an idea to talk to us or
[12:30] talk to metamaterials experts in your
[12:32] vicinity and understand how they may be
[12:35] able to help you
[12:37] with your scientific challenges so let
[12:39] me just check very quickly if um quang
[12:42] is here um
[12:44] narendra have you seen quang by any
[12:46] chance
[12:49] or technical
[12:51] expert of electronic assistance at the
[12:53] mbda the market leader in in missiles
[12:57] and he's gonna join the meeting later
[13:00] because they have some challenges in
[13:02] their supply chain that they want to
[13:04] enchange with the rest of the supply
[13:06] chain but before we do that we don't we
[13:08] introduce the topic today we are talking
[13:10] about micro optics and
[13:12] larger optics manufacturing in 3d and we
[13:15] have some of the top companies in the
[13:17] world that actually are in europe with
[13:20] that topic we want to find potential
[13:22] cooperations for them so let's start and
[13:24] to start i want to go to the beautiful
[13:26] karlsruhe i want to go to carl to meet
[13:30] the ceo and founder of the company i
[13:33] already talked to them about them a lot
[13:35] the company nanda scribe let's me let's
[13:37] meet martin hermansviller martin thank
[13:40] you very much for being with us this
[13:42] beautiful afternoon congratulations on
[13:44] all the amazing business negotiations in
[13:46] the last months by nanoscribe i'm
[13:49] looking forward to june you know why
[13:51] martin because on june organizer epic
[13:53] meeting on advanced optics and
[13:55] nanoscribe finally present everybody
[13:57] there but first we want to hear from you
[13:59] martin the floor and the attention of
[14:01] everyone today we are global goes to you
[14:05] thanks a lot jose for for having me
[14:08] it's really a pleasure to be with you so
[14:11] let me just give a brief introduction
[14:14] into nanoscribe or say you mentioned it
[14:16] before nanoscribe
[14:18] is now meanwhile a baiko company we have
[14:21] been acquired in june of this year
[14:22] belong to a company to a group with more
[14:25] than one thousand employees nanoscribe
[14:28] itself has about 80 employees we invest
[14:30] a lot into research and development we
[14:33] have more than 3 000 system operators
[14:36] outside distributed over more than 30
[14:39] countries and meanwhile
[14:41] we're in the 14th year of operation with
[14:44] many many publications done with our by
[14:46] our marvelous customers
[14:49] so i invite you to have a look at our
[14:51] key enabling technology two-photo
[14:53] polymerization we have two white papers
[14:56] that go into the details thereof both of
[14:58] them are more than 20 pages long so i
[15:01] will keep it short here but i just want
[15:03] to make one point maybe um
[15:05] something that is unique with our
[15:07] products is the ability to do two-photon
[15:10] grayscale lithography not just two
[15:12] photon polymerization but two photon
[15:14] grayscale the talk lithography and
[15:16] that's based on the fact that you can
[15:18] tune the
[15:20] the laser focus and the size by
[15:23] increasing or decreasing the laser
[15:26] intensity and the laser focus and if you
[15:28] do that
[15:30] electronically well controlled you can
[15:32] do this on a hundred nanometer grid as
[15:35] we do it and this results in the ability
[15:37] to
[15:39] to form
[15:40] for instance a curved surface with just
[15:43] one slice and this reduces the print
[15:45] time excessively and it results in
[15:48] optically smooth surfaces
[15:51] you can for instance get rid of
[15:54] concentric rings that you typically find
[15:57] when you no matter how fine you slice an
[15:59] object if you have a hemisphere in the
[16:02] center zone which is the most important
[16:04] zone of a micro optic you will always
[16:06] find concentric rings
[16:08] but two photon grey skeletography you
[16:10] can completely get rid of it and this
[16:13] results in baby smooth surfaces so
[16:15] subtenan with the surface
[16:20] so um there are two topics that i would
[16:22] like to talk about today so mastering of
[16:25] micro optics is of specific importance
[16:28] it's not just 3d printed micro optics
[16:30] but also two and a half dimensional
[16:32] surfaces
[16:34] so the design freedom translates into
[16:37] superior performance because of a high
[16:41] like higher filling factor sharp edges
[16:45] smooth surfaces and at the same time you
[16:48] can also realize hybrid optics so
[16:50] diffractive and refractive combined
[16:53] and not only can you do this on wafer
[16:54] level but you can also do it
[16:57] well aligned on fiber tips
[16:59] on chips or on the wafer
[17:02] and because it's so easy to use and in
[17:04] most cases you do not even use spin
[17:06] coating and other complex processes you
[17:09] can realize uh prototypes easily iterate
[17:12] fast and the few process steps involved
[17:15] result in
[17:16] high quality of your structures high
[17:18] yields
[17:20] and great performance
[17:22] so i have brought three examples with me
[17:25] so on the left side you see such an
[17:27] arrangement of a hybrid optics it's a
[17:29] hemisphere and on top of it you see fine
[17:32] ripples that diffract the light
[17:34] or you can even go beyond the economical
[17:36] compromise of diffractive optical
[17:38] elements where you typically have only
[17:41] eight diffractive optical element levels
[17:44] in our case due to the
[17:46] um superior design freedom you can go to
[17:49] more than four thousand levels this then
[17:51] results in quasi continuous profile
[17:54] profiles
[17:56] or you can even implement um a certain
[17:59] designer angle in order to get rid of
[18:02] the zeroed order of diffraction so
[18:04] diffractive optical elements
[18:07] which are
[18:08] blazed
[18:11] and our process is also fully compatible
[18:13] with standard
[18:15] manufacturing processes so if you think
[18:17] about
[18:18] mass fabrication of structures you can
[18:20] either create a nickel shim or you take
[18:23] a soft mode based from a polymer master
[18:26] and then you do either injection molding
[18:28] or hot embossing or you do nano imprint
[18:31] lithography
[18:32] and as one exemplified uh structure you
[18:36] see here an eight-inch wafer this has
[18:38] been done in collaboration with evg as
[18:41] collaboration partner this is based on
[18:44] nano imprint replication
[18:49] the second aspect is not just printing
[18:52] on wafer level but printing
[18:55] optical devices at the point of
[18:57] destination
[18:59] for photonic packaging and here
[19:01] nanoscribe provides the two major routes
[19:04] one is to put to print optomechanical
[19:06] aligners so that you can easily click
[19:10] for instance
[19:12] a fiber optic to a certain mechanical
[19:14] alignment element or you go the optical
[19:17] route and you print the optics at the
[19:19] edge of a chip or at the facet of a
[19:22] fiber or onto
[19:24] an optical chip at the top surface
[19:28] this is how it looks like if you take
[19:29] our quantum x system the two photon
[19:32] polymerization masterless lithography
[19:34] system and 3d printer in one unit
[19:37] and you can see
[19:39] in the camera directly where you want to
[19:41] print and the alignment allows you to
[19:44] precisely anchor your structure with
[19:46] plus minus 100 nanometer precision to
[19:49] at the point of destination
[19:51] so no complex gluing it's just printing
[19:55] one example is from
[19:58] customers from the university of munster
[20:01] the world from pernice group they for
[20:03] instance print things like complex
[20:07] taper structures
[20:09] um in order to couple light into this
[20:11] waveguide then they have a total
[20:14] internal reflection that reflects the
[20:16] light out of plane and then the focusing
[20:19] um hemisphere with eight micrometer
[20:22] uh radius
[20:24] and that focuses the light into an
[20:26] optical fiber or vice versa
[20:29] this is very broadband it spans uh the
[20:32] complete visible range at low losses
[20:35] or you can print
[20:36] on fibers and fiber arrays here you see
[20:39] a v-groove and our system allows for
[20:42] automatic recognition of the fiber core
[20:45] alignment and printing thereof in order
[20:47] to print hemi
[20:49] micro optics which relax the mode field
[20:52] diameter
[20:54] so to summarize
[20:56] with nanoscribe you have the ability to
[20:58] do
[20:59] two photon polymerization additive micro
[21:01] fabrication for micro optics
[21:04] which results in superior performance
[21:07] the ability to rapidly prototype
[21:09] to do this in a robust and cost saving
[21:12] manner and it's also mass scalable by
[21:14] nano imprint lithography and injection
[21:16] molding
[21:17] and in photonic packaging
[21:20] you can achieve good coupling
[21:22] efficiencies on surface and edges
[21:25] that
[21:26] relax alignment tolerances enabled by
[21:29] larger mode field diameters result in
[21:31] low losses and a high coupling
[21:34] reliability
[21:36] and it's also versatile our products
[21:38] allow to print not just on
[21:41] wafers but on on fiber tips and on chips
[21:44] and it's also very time saving if you
[21:47] think about
[21:49] the alignment task and the gluing task
[21:51] that
[21:52] you can completely skip
[21:54] so it's a very versatile technology and
[21:57] if you wish to evaluate our technology
[22:01] please just send us an email inquire us
[22:04] for
[22:05] with your design ideas for feasibility
[22:07] thank you very much
[22:09] thank you very much martin for a great
[22:10] presentation i really have to say that i
[22:13] really look up to you and to your team
[22:15] for the amazing things that you are
[22:17] doing michael tilly you are watching
[22:19] hello you are one of the people i look
[22:20] up to the most in this industry it is
[22:22] amazing what you are doing and i want to
[22:25] i want to bring epic members in contact
[22:28] with you to it can help you doing even
[22:30] better so you're prepared for this the
[22:33] epic question what are your new
[22:35] challenges what can you do for the
[22:36] others and what can the others do for
[22:38] you
[22:40] so what we can
[22:41] do for others is to do a feasibility
[22:43] study so whenever you have something you
[22:46] would like to evaluate please come to us
[22:48] do not hesitate
[22:49] um
[22:50] if you have specific photo resist if you
[22:53] are a photoresist manufacturer please
[22:56] consult us we would love to to test your
[22:58] materials
[23:00] what we can do for you is
[23:03] we can
[23:05] print micro optic masters for innovative
[23:08] replication techniques so if you have
[23:10] anything that you would like to test we
[23:12] printed for you and you can test the
[23:14] replication or if you want
[23:18] we can print complex micro optics to
[23:20] qualify maybe your measurement your
[23:23] techniques that you have for meteorology
[23:25] instrumentation for instance
[23:28] we have many people in the room that i
[23:29] want you to meet but i'm gonna start up
[23:32] there i'm gonna start on the space
[23:34] market we have one of the companies who
[23:35] making a difference in the industry for
[23:37] the spec technologies we have in the
[23:39] room le ontios representing leo space
[23:43] photonics i wanted him to be here
[23:45] because in the previous meetings we'll
[23:46] talk about optics for free for fso for
[23:49] free space optical communication and
[23:51] he's one of the key companies in the
[23:53] nano satellite business bringing that
[23:55] industry forward today leontes we are
[23:57] talking about 3d printed optics what is
[24:00] your interest in that particular topic
[24:02] and what challenges do you have for your
[24:04] space applications okay so thanks jose
[24:08] for giving me the opportunity so
[24:10] basically for for space we are looking
[24:12] into
[24:12] on our end space transceivers for
[24:15] for satellite optical communications
[24:17] either these are fso or even
[24:20] inside the satellite
[24:22] now the challenge
[24:24] um
[24:25] here is to have you know for space you
[24:27] need to have very simple builds
[24:29] and very robust build modules so the 3d
[24:32] printed objects i think it is in the in
[24:33] the right direction because you can have
[24:35] you can eliminate
[24:37] a lot of interfaces inside the module
[24:38] and make it more robust
[24:40] at the same time the challenge would be
[24:42] and this is to be to be presented to the
[24:45] to the vendors here
[24:47] um the wide
[24:49] temperature operating range so the
[24:52] modules are going to be cycled over
[24:53] minus 40 to plus 85 degrees c for
[24:55] example so the robustness of these three
[24:58] dependent optics in such a wide range of
[25:00] temperature is is one thing and the
[25:02] other important thing is that for space
[25:03] you know there's no air
[25:05] and there's a lot of uh outgassing due
[25:07] to the vacuum um
[25:09] to the vacuum environment so
[25:12] the robustness
[25:13] against the viking operation is is
[25:15] another thing to be to be considered in
[25:17] order to have at the end a space
[25:19] compatible or
[25:20] a process for me for making 3d printed
[25:23] objects for for space photonics
[25:25] martin when it comes to space for me
[25:27] idea ideally was the first application
[25:30] that came to mind when i met your
[25:31] company
[25:33] 12 years ago oh my god we are old when i
[25:35] made your company the first time that
[25:37] was the first application i asked about
[25:38] what is the current state of the art for
[25:41] 3d printed optics with two photon
[25:43] polymerization in space applications
[25:47] space applications i think is still a
[25:49] relatively new topic to to photon
[25:51] polymerization but it's there's a
[25:53] growing demand that is what we sense so
[25:56] space applications also in terms of
[25:58] microfluidics we we send a lot of
[26:00] requests to that so um the materials
[26:04] since they do photopolymerize very
[26:07] efficiently
[26:08] they do not outgas a lot so therefore um
[26:11] i can imagine that even for space
[26:13] application we can qualify two two
[26:16] photon polymerase polymerized optics for
[26:19] space
[26:20] we have a comment right now coming all
[26:23] the way from beautiful buildings in
[26:25] lithuania leontios listen to this
[26:28] girdas thank you very much being with us
[26:31] what's on your mind
[26:34] laser research center at billions
[26:36] university
[26:37] you're asking me
[26:38] yes yes okay so there is a way how to
[26:41] make these 3d printed optics inorganic
[26:44] and this makes them much more
[26:47] transparent resilient
[26:49] and
[26:50] well resilient to everything to high and
[26:52] low temperatures to pressure variations
[26:55] uh to acidic or whatever environment
[26:58] also for mechanical
[27:01] effects so just like glass
[27:04] 3d printed at microscale with all the
[27:07] possibilities uh
[27:10] to integrate or to print on chip just
[27:12] like
[27:13] martin has shown us so
[27:14] the same
[27:16] the same devices can be converted from
[27:18] polymer to uh
[27:20] in organic substance glass glasses like
[27:23] uh materials as well as ceramics and
[27:26] even uh
[27:27] crystalline inorganics
[27:29] so i think it's enhancing and
[27:31] specifically targeting these space
[27:33] applications
[27:35] and and of course the method this is
[27:36] compatible with all the 3d printing
[27:38] machines as spartan already showed so
[27:41] it's widespread
[27:46] sorry for a question by leontios
[27:49] mangildas how can we access this
[27:51] inorganic free-form micro-optics is
[27:53] there a way that we can test this
[27:55] already for the nanosatellites work or
[27:58] level space photonics
[28:00] uh for the material you should ask
[28:01] another participant who's online here so
[28:04] dr maria for sorry for
[28:07] so at least one exam example module uh
[28:10] material as a standard one works with it
[28:13] fine
[28:14] but
[28:15] at the same time it's not limited to
[28:17] only
[28:18] this specific material if you want some
[28:20] um
[28:21] tunable refractive index or whatsoever
[28:24] so there is a space for for research as
[28:26] well
[28:27] so this meetings are magical martin we
[28:30] have maria farsari all the way from
[28:32] greece from fort in the room maria
[28:35] professor for sorry good afternoon we
[28:37] are really excited now they started
[28:39] meeting really strong today martin how
[28:41] can we access this inorganic micro
[28:44] optics to put them in space applications
[28:47] okay so this is um
[28:50] this is not as straightforward as it
[28:53] sounds because you cannot directly print
[28:57] inorganic materials but
[28:59] there is a process so through pyrolysis
[29:03] where you can take
[29:04] organic inorganic hybrids and you can
[29:08] print them and then make them in organic
[29:10] via this process so um
[29:13] we can
[29:16] we have developed materials that burn
[29:18] very nicely
[29:21] as it sounds paradox but anyway so
[29:24] and mangudas has done some very nice
[29:26] work i think you're showing it all right
[29:28] on the screen on 3d printing of
[29:32] this micro micro optical components
[29:36] i i want to address this topic later but
[29:38] what a way to start the meeting martin
[29:40] really wants to comment on this martin
[29:42] what's on your mind i have two remarks
[29:44] um first of all
[29:46] we have just launched a material in july
[29:48] this year together with the company
[29:49] glaselmere
[29:51] it's a two photon polymerization
[29:53] material that has glass
[29:57] nanoparticles inside and after a sinter
[29:59] process you get pure fuel silica that's
[30:02] one thing the other thing is you can
[30:05] also take polymers and apply by atomic
[30:08] layer deposition for instance thin
[30:09] coatings and these thin coatings help to
[30:12] prevent the gassing outgassing of the
[30:14] structure and also they can be made on
[30:17] anti-reflective so if you want to have
[30:19] high performance optics in space i think
[30:22] atomic layer deposition might be
[30:24] interesting to look at
[30:26] we actually have in the room doroth this
[30:28] meeting is getting great we have
[30:30] dorothea helmer coming from the company
[30:32] glass summer you're looking for few
[30:33] silica 3d printed material like grass
[30:36] summer is really the key company for you
[30:38] to address dorothya you just were
[30:40] acknowledged by martin what did you do
[30:42] in this topic and telescope room for
[30:44] cooperation would you like to to start
[30:46] today
[30:47] yeah i completely thank you jose totally
[30:49] excited to be here and i totally agree
[30:51] that
[30:52] polymers in space is not ideal so glass
[30:54] is a really good material and after the
[30:56] calculation process you can be
[30:58] absolutely sure there will be nothing
[30:59] leaking out of the material and like
[31:02] martin said we have a really great
[31:04] explorer kit with nanoscribe so if you
[31:06] really want to print some nano optics on
[31:09] your nanoscribe machine then definitely
[31:11] you can buy the kit already at
[31:13] nanoscribe and at glassomer if you are
[31:16] interested we also sell some more
[31:19] exploratory kits for larger prints so if
[31:21] you have a regular printer maybe you
[31:23] don't have a nanoscribe and you want to
[31:25] print some objects on your regular
[31:27] printer then you can contact us and we
[31:29] can definitely sell you a nice composite
[31:32] material that you can get a really high
[31:33] purity fused silica optics from
[31:35] and you're looking for glass shaping at
[31:38] room temperature class summer is the
[31:40] company that you have to go to talk to
[31:42] andros you're doing a fantastic job i'm
[31:44] coming to you later but martin we have a
[31:45] lot of questions for you the first one
[31:48] is coming from one of the offer key
[31:49] consultants in the epic network duval of
[31:52] fear is helping a lot of companies
[31:54] developing their supply chain jubal has
[31:56] a question for you martin jubal what's
[31:59] on your mind
[32:03] i don't think we can hear you balofield
[32:05] so i'm gonna read this question what are
[32:08] the highest refractive index materials
[32:10] that you offer today
[32:12] at the moment it's uh 1.62 so we have uh
[32:16] well characterize these materials and
[32:18] provide
[32:19] all the n k values uh throughout the
[32:21] visible and in the near infrared um for
[32:24] all materials so 1.62 is at the moment
[32:27] the limit but
[32:28] that can be overcome in the future
[32:31] the the
[32:32] the next question in the room is coming
[32:34] from the company mbda kung mang thank
[32:38] you very much for being with us today
[32:40] you are one of foreign users tell us
[32:42] what's on your mind
[32:47] kron i think you are muted yes
[32:51] hi sorry i hope you can hear me um no
[32:54] the question i had was what uh what wave
[32:56] band are your optics designed for it
[32:58] sounds like you're looking at working in
[32:59] the visible and the infrared can you go
[33:01] out to the mid infrared and long wave in
[33:03] for it
[33:06] maybe dort here knows better how
[33:10] few silica performs in the
[33:13] in the longer wavelength regime i'd say
[33:15] that probably the polymers will not be
[33:17] good for for the infrared and
[33:20] but maybe
[33:21] you know better
[33:23] so around the 2.7 micron where the
[33:26] weight group usually absorb a lot
[33:29] we have very low
[33:33] values because we do vacuum sintering so
[33:36] we don't have a lot of oh groups left
[33:38] there so and in the longer uv is it's
[33:40] the same as regular uh longer infrared
[33:42] it's like the same as the regular um
[33:45] silica glass so at some point in the uv
[33:47] you have a cut-off and at some point in
[33:49] the ir you will also have a cut-off
[33:50] definitely
[33:53] the the next question in the room more
[33:54] than a question is perhaps a challenge
[33:56] or room for cooperation is coming all
[33:58] the way from the united states of
[34:00] america and this company is nanobox a
[34:02] person who's meant a lot to the online
[34:04] technology meetings is james field james
[34:07] good morning for you good afternoon for
[34:08] me what's on your mind
[34:11] good morning jose we're well caffeinated
[34:13] here in the northwest
[34:15] um one of the questions i have is we're
[34:18] trying to scale our high and low index
[34:21] monomers
[34:22] for
[34:23] gradient refractive index printing they
[34:26] have to be incredible but we're trying
[34:28] to get out of the
[34:30] small batch mode so we're looking for
[34:32] partners
[34:33] to help us scale our production um as we
[34:36] get to uh
[34:38] volume levels we have a customer that
[34:40] needs to make uh 24 million optics in a
[34:44] year
[34:45] and to do that we have to have those
[34:48] materials scale
[34:50] so
[34:51] anyone who is uh
[34:54] interested in talking to us about
[34:56] scaling our monomers please call
[34:58] so you're looking for a partner to scare
[35:00] your monomers we are talking about high
[35:02] and low refractive index monoliths
[35:05] monomers
[35:06] for 3d inject printing
[35:09] yes
[35:10] so they have to have the viscosity to
[35:12] inkjet print um also they have to work
[35:16] together well because they we blend them
[35:19] uh during the printing and we add nano
[35:21] composites to uh
[35:23] to sculpt the light through the uh
[35:25] through the monomer um i wanna say that
[35:28] we've been
[35:29] leo qualified so we've gone through
[35:31] radiation testing
[35:33] and we are doing some optics for nasa in
[35:36] both mid and long wave ir so we have
[35:39] some some
[35:41] different skill sets
[35:43] across the pond but we we hope to
[35:46] collaborate with europe in the future
[35:49] you have to get in touch with leo space
[35:51] photonics by the way james i think there
[35:53] has to be a nice meeting there and i
[35:56] want to have the the final question for
[35:58] you martin is coming from ntu we go to
[36:01] matthias parrot matias thank you very
[36:03] much for being with us today what's on
[36:04] your mind
[36:06] so hello everyone so i was wondering
[36:08] about the smallest voxel volume
[36:10] achievable by nanoscribe printers using
[36:14] um
[36:14] two photon polymerization and also the
[36:18] smallest
[36:19] thickness of a stealth standing wall
[36:21] achievable
[36:24] yeah a great question um
[36:26] though so the smallest features
[36:28] typically go down to about 100
[36:30] nanometers and then of course things get
[36:33] tricky so mechanical stability becomes
[36:36] an issue and if you think about uh some
[36:39] wall uh that should be minimum in size
[36:42] but it should also not fall over so
[36:43] mechanically still stable um then often
[36:46] a lot of tricks are involved like super
[36:48] critical point drawing in order to keep
[36:50] it stable and if you think about
[36:53] replicating some geometry by injection
[36:56] molding or by nano imprint lithography
[36:58] then often it's not the two-photon
[37:00] polymerization mechanism that limits um
[37:03] the performance but it's mostly the
[37:05] injection and
[37:07] imprint methods that are the limit so
[37:10] roughly said hundred nanometer smallest
[37:12] features um and let's say the mechanical
[37:17] uh
[37:18] robustness depends a lot on the geometry
[37:21] itself so one has to look at it
[37:23] at the case individually
[37:26] thank you but yes let's look at your
[37:27] case this is this is a business meeting
[37:30] you come all the way from mtu this is
[37:31] the nanian technology university in
[37:34] singapore i visited the university
[37:36] myself
[37:37] why did you ask that very good question
[37:39] agreed with martin what challenge what
[37:41] application are you targeting well there
[37:43] is obvious applications in uh so
[37:45] especially com like in
[37:47] conjugation with uh this technology of
[37:50] um so offered by glassman now but which
[37:53] was uh basically um studied in uh the
[37:57] 2017 paper by cuts
[37:59] in nature but i'm pretty sure a lot of
[38:01] people here read and that
[38:02] kind of brought
[38:04] i mean to me it was like a shock like oh
[38:06] this thing is possible and so i got a i
[38:09] had a lot of interest in um
[38:11] in printing uh guided optics using this
[38:13] technology so that's why i'm interested
[38:15] in all these printers and
[38:18] these new um resins which
[38:21] hopefully are good optically
[38:23] and good enough for
[38:26] printed optical circuits
[38:28] and other guided optics so it's a really
[38:31] interesting topic i i'm very impressed
[38:34] with the activities that ntu is doing in
[38:36] silicon photonics in biosensing i
[38:37] visited your lab myself i didn't see any
[38:40] to photon polymerization machine there
[38:42] is there no exchange not today yeah
[38:44] let's do that today after this meeting
[38:46] let's continue this fantastic meeting we
[38:48] go from nanoscribe to a person to a
[38:51] company and a person that means a lot to
[38:54] epic we go to the company fento print
[38:57] and we're gonna meet andrea lover the
[38:59] chief scientific officer of fentoprint
[39:02] they joined this meeting with certain
[39:04] challenges for the supply chain after
[39:06] the presentation i want to go to mbda
[39:09] understand the reason why they're at
[39:10] this meeting and try to make some
[39:12] connections within the members before
[39:14] andrea alovera chief science officer of
[39:16] fento print through the floor and the
[39:18] attention of everyone comes to you
[39:21] thank you very much jose for the
[39:23] invitation for the introduction
[39:25] so i'm gonna talk about glass which is a
[39:28] nice trendy transition compared to the
[39:30] discussion we just had so we were
[39:31] talking about princess glass optics and
[39:34] this is actually what we can offer
[39:37] so a few words about the company
[39:39] femtoprint we are a swiss-based company
[39:41] it's a small company today but nicely
[39:43] growing we are about 30 people and we
[39:47] sell all around the world micro devices
[39:50] printed out of glass for many different
[39:52] markets from life science
[39:55] to automotive aerospace watch industry
[39:58] and of course
[40:00] optics
[40:02] our technology is actually the opposite
[40:05] of what we have just heard so we are not
[40:08] really growing material but on the other
[40:10] side we are removing material from a
[40:11] substrate
[40:13] and
[40:14] the fabrication is done using a two-step
[40:16] process
[40:18] first of all we expose the material with
[40:21] our laser machines
[40:23] to inscribe an image of the object we
[40:25] want to fabricate like in the left
[40:27] and then we go into a chemical etching
[40:29] solution that selectively dissolve the
[40:31] material that we have exposed
[40:33] and in this way
[40:35] because we exploit only the voxel to
[40:37] modify the material we can build
[40:39] things that cannot be produced with
[40:41] standard
[40:42] for example lithography or fabrication
[40:44] technologies
[40:46] like this connector which has a channel
[40:48] which are plugged into the volume
[40:52] our main material for optics is fuel
[40:54] silica and there are many advantages for
[40:56] using fuel silica in the optics because
[40:58] it's for example uv transparent and
[41:00] there is transparency windows which goes
[41:03] uh very nicely to the to the ir it's
[41:06] stable can go to very harsh environment
[41:09] it's biocompatible therefore
[41:11] elements can also go into a human body
[41:13] or being used in labonchi for example
[41:17] and the fabrication can be of course
[41:19] done at wafer level scale
[41:22] here we see an 8 inch wafer
[41:24] these are just holes but
[41:26] in the same area and surface we can
[41:29] basically
[41:30] produce any type of components and what
[41:33] is also i think amazing of what we do is
[41:35] that we can achieve very very thick
[41:38] parts here uh
[41:40] we
[41:41] we can reach 20 millimeter in thickness
[41:46] aside of the main technology
[41:48] we are building the time many other
[41:50] post-processing that helps us in uh in
[41:53] tackles different markets like uh the
[41:56] surface polishing method that allows us
[41:58] to really reach the optical
[42:00] market by decreasing the
[42:03] while improving the surface quality of
[42:05] the produced components
[42:07] then we have
[42:08] encapsulation technologies we can modify
[42:11] the refractive index of the materials
[42:14] drill holes and more recently we are
[42:16] also handling metals to create
[42:19] electrodes in three dimension
[42:21] and other type of functionalization
[42:23] through partners
[42:27] this is an example
[42:29] of the glass components that we have
[42:31] produced for sierra letting grenoble
[42:33] it's a complex monolithic
[42:36] fabricated piece that includes out of
[42:39] plain lenses in the center and then
[42:41] freeform mirror on the side the whole
[42:44] idea was to build a
[42:46] particulate matter sensor
[42:48] but integrated with
[42:52] pre-treatment
[42:54] optical imaging
[42:55] in the device
[42:58] then other possibilities that
[43:01] can be offered by the technology of
[43:02] course are
[43:03] true free form fabrication
[43:06] and this is another example of a
[43:09] commercial part that can be purchased
[43:10] from torla website
[43:12] that we have tried to reproduce with our
[43:14] machine
[43:16] and without going into the detail uh
[43:19] here on the left we see an image of the
[43:21] parts produced
[43:23] with a laser and etching that of course
[43:25] needs some post processing to decrease
[43:27] the surface roughness
[43:29] and on the right the same shape
[43:32] after
[43:33] surface roughness smoothing with our
[43:36] process
[43:39] so um
[43:41] because i knew that you were going to
[43:42] ask the question what can you do for us
[43:45] i think we are really looking from the
[43:47] market
[43:48] we are really looking for partners bring
[43:50] ideas and devices at the table to
[43:53] develop together with us
[43:55] and what we can what we can bring here
[43:58] is our expertise in producing
[44:02] from micrometer to several millimeter
[44:05] size component
[44:06] we are really comfortable now to work
[44:08] with typical feature size in between 20
[44:10] micron and one millimeter
[44:12] we can decrease the surface roughness
[44:14] below
[44:15] lambda 10 average roughness below 20
[44:18] nanometer
[44:19] we can keep a shape accuracy belong wipe
[44:22] 1.5 micrometer
[44:24] compared to the 3d model
[44:26] and we are comfortable in
[44:29] producing curved shape for the moment
[44:32] using our localized polishing
[44:34] process and what we really hope
[44:38] at the end of this meeting but also for
[44:40] the future is to really find the good
[44:42] partners and customers to co-develop
[44:44] know-how and new products
[44:47] and
[44:48] what can we do for you
[44:51] well we offer a flexible 3d technology
[44:54] which really allows us to
[44:56] operate in different markets
[44:59] and our main offer today
[45:01] can go from fabrication of master i
[45:03] think we we heard a lot about master in
[45:06] the previous presentation
[45:07] [Music]
[45:08] we have demonstrated uh with few
[45:11] selected customers that also our
[45:12] technology is compatible with
[45:14] replication for injection molding
[45:17] machines and other technologies
[45:19] but in the same time we can offer fast
[45:22] prototyping
[45:23] small volume production till to meet
[45:25] volume production of optical components
[45:28] and other
[45:30] and with this i'd like to thank you for
[45:31] your attention
[45:34] thank you very much for a great
[45:35] presentation and i'm still puzzled about
[45:38] going to use glass i'm going to use
[45:40] polymer i to be honest i there's so many
[45:43] industry trends that is hard for me to
[45:45] do to summarize that in a sentence i
[45:47] don't think there is a clear
[45:49] sentence for that luckily we have lots
[45:51] of different end users with different
[45:53] challenges when it comes to what
[45:54] material to use so i want to bring to
[45:57] the attention a few end users that we
[45:59] have in the room we're going to go first
[46:00] to mbda
[46:03] a good afternoon all the way from the uk
[46:06] nvda is a company the defense sector we
[46:08] all know the company nvda and you know
[46:10] what is your business what is your
[46:12] interest in 3d printed optics and when
[46:15] do you target polymer or plastic and
[46:18] when do you target glass as the material
[46:20] to those optics
[46:23] if you have any slides to share with us
[46:26] now it is also a good time yes i'm gonna
[46:28] i'm just gonna share that i've only got
[46:30] a single slide but hopefully you should
[46:32] be able to
[46:33] see that right now can you see that
[46:36] let's see yes you go slice show mode
[46:40] excellent okay that's burnt um
[46:42] so nba's interest in meta materials um
[46:45] we've only started engaging with you
[46:46] guys uh with information materials
[46:48] recently but as a brief description mbda
[46:52] is a european complex weapon prime
[46:55] so it is uh
[46:57] my name's quang man and i'm the eo
[46:59] census technical expert in mbta
[47:01] so mbd is the primary missiles company
[47:04] in europe
[47:05] um so we use imaging infrared technology
[47:08] predominantly in missile seekers but
[47:10] also we're interested in the technology
[47:12] for signature control
[47:15] as we develop systems for the future the
[47:16] requirement for our systems become more
[47:18] demanding and requires increased design
[47:20] flexibility this could be fitting this
[47:23] could be to fit into smaller spaces
[47:24] where the overall size of the missile is
[47:26] reduced or to fit into
[47:28] unconventional spaces as in the case of
[47:30] multi-mode seekers
[47:32] so messy materials can help us deliver
[47:33] this challenge
[47:35] where metamaterials have the potential
[47:36] to reduce the number of lens elements
[47:38] and operate in confined spaces
[47:40] a metal lens has a sub-wavelength
[47:42] meta-surface pattern
[47:44] manufactured on the optical substrate to
[47:46] convert a optical input wavefront into a
[47:48] desired optical wavefront
[47:51] by manipulating the scaffold phase
[47:53] across the surface component some of
[47:55] this you've seen
[47:56] under previous talks
[47:58] so it sounds like there's some good
[48:01] collaboration there that could be
[48:02] possible
[48:04] missile domes can also introduce the
[48:06] significant operations into the image
[48:08] form image forming beam
[48:10] and it is possible to correct correct
[48:12] for this using asymmetric conformal
[48:14] surfaces a metal lens optical component
[48:17] could achieve optical compensation for
[48:19] imaging through conformal surfaces
[48:22] with more cost effectiveness than
[48:23] typical conventional free-form optical
[48:25] designs
[48:27] and the other feature which i'm more
[48:29] interested in for myself is the
[48:32] is the survivability uh so there's also
[48:35] the need for our systems to operate in
[48:36] more difficult environments where the
[48:38] systems need to become less detectable
[48:40] or more resilient to the adversary's
[48:42] capability to increase the survivability
[48:45] of our systems
[48:46] metamaterials could be used to control
[48:48] the materials emissivity reflectivity
[48:50] and absorptivity using
[48:53] using technologies such as the graphics
[48:55] scene as nano resonators
[48:59] so most infrared images operate in
[49:01] specific
[49:02] main wave bands due to the attenuation
[49:04] of our atmosphere
[49:05] these include short wave ir medium wave
[49:07] ir and non-wave ir
[49:09] so material metamodels could be designed
[49:12] to promote and limit
[49:14] emissions of light in defined wave bands
[49:16] and if these can be designed to admit
[49:18] outside the wave bands of detection and
[49:20] to reduce emissions within the wave
[49:22] outlet detection this increases our
[49:24] chances of survivability
[49:27] another avenue is the
[49:28] directed energy weapons that should be
[49:30] used against our systems such as
[49:32] laserjew or high rf energy
[49:34] uh use meta materials you could use you
[49:36] could design these uh these metal these
[49:39] features so that you can reflect the
[49:41] wave brands of interest and again
[49:42] increase our survivability
[49:44] another factor is um so other forms of
[49:47] detection use reflected energy to detect
[49:49] our systems such as radar
[49:51] again metamaterials could be used to
[49:53] specifically absorb these wave bands so
[49:56] again reducing uh their return signal
[49:58] and increasing so our survivability
[50:01] and there are fields that uh so these
[50:03] are the fields that the eo census
[50:04] department imagine that metamaterials
[50:06] can provide some benefit for the future
[50:08] there may be other
[50:09] areas that metamodels could be applied
[50:11] and other technologies and departments
[50:13] if you have any thoughts about this or
[50:14] any questions you can contact me
[50:16] directly
[50:17] that's all i have for now uh if you have
[50:19] any other questions please let me know
[50:21] well you have a lot i love when an end
[50:23] user comes to the meeting with a
[50:25] particular challenge so nvda wants to
[50:27] start strategic cooperations in a step
[50:30] change
[50:31] in ir seeker design step change optics
[50:35] meta surface lenses this is a very hot
[50:37] topic in the industry right now we
[50:39] already saw the success stories that are
[50:40] coming out from every corner i know that
[50:43] the nil technologies is listening to
[50:45] this meeting eh who can help
[50:49] let me see i have some hands up
[50:52] james phil from nanobox how can you help
[50:56] well we've made uh imagers for
[50:59] uh missiles
[51:01] uh where we've printed right on the
[51:03] image sensor itself um that was
[51:07] a field trial
[51:09] uh going through shock and vibration um
[51:11] the heat humidity
[51:13] um so that they're uh
[51:16] they're used
[51:18] in
[51:19] the services
[51:20] uh or or beginning to be
[51:22] uh used in the services over here um so
[51:26] in and we do do uh we do control uh
[51:29] permittivity and uh permittivity uh of
[51:33] material sets for um cloaking uh radar
[51:37] images and and the like so i i will send
[51:40] you some presentations
[51:44] that's great thank you
[51:45] i want to also have a look at this slide
[51:48] i will share it with everyone have a
[51:50] look at this meta surface lens i think
[51:52] many of you already telling me that they
[51:53] want to help but they don't want to talk
[51:55] publicly so i think it is
[51:58] okay that that we leave this as in the
[52:01] us
[52:02] introductions of lying i know that the
[52:04] topic is is the top the topic is the
[52:06] defense and it's better to to have the
[52:08] introduction discussions online so don't
[52:10] worry how many you want to help let's do
[52:12] the introductions later i want to
[52:14] comment i want to bring to the
[52:15] discussion because we have a person from
[52:17] the automotive sector we had lionel
[52:19] gigiot he told me it is too early to to
[52:22] speak out my challenges so i just want
[52:24] because this is of course this is a
[52:26] meeting not a webinar i want leonard to
[52:28] say hello to us and i want to to ask him
[52:32] uh what brought him to this meeting
[52:34] lionel gigger representing the company
[52:36] automotive company renault
[52:38] leonard good afternoon hello
[52:40] good afternoon
[52:42] thank you for
[52:43] giving
[52:44] micro uh just uh to say this is an early
[52:47] participation today and
[52:50] my interest is for uh functional
[52:52] surfaces
[52:53] uh whether it's for optical aspects or
[52:56] or uh photocatalytic aspect and
[53:01] any aspect that we could imagine in a
[53:04] in a
[53:05] in a car
[53:06] for uh functional surfaces
[53:09] so uh today i'm i'm learning i'm
[53:12] listening and learning to you and uh
[53:14] that's uh very interesting and i i thank
[53:16] you a lot for for these uh
[53:18] speeches thank you very much leonard for
[53:21] that i i am sorry that i brought you to
[53:23] the room like this but i think it's very
[53:25] important people get to know you and i
[53:26] want to talk to you maybe later today at
[53:28] another meeting about how the automotive
[53:30] industries is the glass versus polymer
[53:33] i've been told that this requires a
[53:34] separate meeting and we are trying to
[53:36] arrange it uh leona thank you very much
[53:38] for that we have some questions in the
[53:40] room for the companifento print dorothea
[53:44] from glasomer what's on your mind
[53:47] yes hi thanks for the really nice
[53:49] presentation i really love the
[53:51] femtoprint images makes glass looks so
[53:53] nice so i was wondering uh you you have
[53:56] this great technology of smoothening out
[53:58] so which looks really good so you as i
[54:01] remember make also channels on the
[54:03] inside of glass can you also smooth them
[54:05] on the inside or is that a smoothing
[54:08] exclusively on the outside of the glass
[54:10] basically
[54:11] i know unfortunately we cannot smooth on
[54:13] the inside we can always move on the
[54:15] outside
[54:16] and then what what did you say the
[54:18] roughness parameters were roughly when
[54:20] they're unsmoothed
[54:22] so as and surfaces can be in the best
[54:25] case 80 nanometer uh which is happening
[54:28] on the vertical side wall and in on the
[54:30] 3d shapes in general we are around 200
[54:33] 250 nanometers
[54:35] okay i have another quick question if i
[54:37] may so how how fast for this really nice
[54:40] um so this really nice uh complex device
[54:43] that you showed so how long does it
[54:44] really take to make such a you know a
[54:47] channel or a like
[54:49] structure like that
[54:51] so for that for a part like that uh the
[54:53] typical time is maybe half an hour to
[54:56] one hour something like that
[54:58] and that's all on waiver scale so you
[55:00] have thousands of them at the same time
[55:02] well maybe not thousand of those but a
[55:05] lot uh yeah we can feel the wafer
[55:08] okay and that's with smoothening so half
[55:10] an hour the whole thing is you know
[55:11] laser on etching smoothening everything
[55:14] no that's the laser part then the
[55:15] etching is a parallel and even if it's a
[55:18] bit longer it doesn't matter because all
[55:20] the devices are go to the etching one by
[55:23] one
[55:24] while the the laser processing is single
[55:26] so we produce one after the other
[55:28] okay cool thank you very much really
[55:30] impressive
[55:31] yeah it is really impressive but also
[55:33] very impressive what dorothea is doing
[55:34] and a huge fan of class summer it's so
[55:36] great to have you here but we have
[55:38] another question in the room but this
[55:40] question is for nbda and it's coming
[55:43] from nts optel in nightmaking in the
[55:46] netherlands frank ernst you're a system
[55:49] integrator and tester of optical
[55:51] instruments what's on your mind what
[55:53] question and suggestion do you have for
[55:55] nvda
[55:57] um actually i have more a question
[56:00] we are
[56:01] building uh
[56:03] machines for uh the
[56:06] mass production of these meta structures
[56:09] so do you do you need those yes or no
[56:13] that's how i i in the chat said the link
[56:16] um uh so this is maybe more a question
[56:19] to everybody if you if you need these we
[56:21] uh i think we are market leader
[56:24] of these these
[56:27] of these testers for for mass production
[56:31] we are talking about optical testers for
[56:34] mass production of course then the
[56:35] question was enough for for mbda who is
[56:39] a mass production luckily
[56:41] it is not in the missile sector yet but
[56:43] there are many others so let's discuss
[56:46] it
[56:47] offline with anybody who has suggestions
[56:50] today on the testing i'm going to look
[56:51] at all the optics manufacturers today we
[56:53] have so many so from the premium
[56:55] ams synoptic all of you a chrome asus
[56:59] micro optics
[57:00] please make sure that you tell us later
[57:02] maybe i will make a round q a later on
[57:05] your needs for testing so wilfred from
[57:07] suse micro optics stay alert to
[57:09] answering the question later we have
[57:11] another question in the room is coming
[57:15] from my very good friend and top
[57:17] consultant in the industry ruth hubert's
[57:20] from think made engineering and
[57:22] consulting and a person that we all know
[57:24] and love in the micro of this community
[57:26] ruth
[57:27] what's on your mind
[57:29] actually i do not know what what kind of
[57:32] question i just posed i just gave you an
[57:34] information
[57:36] so you told me that you are a you know
[57:38] you just give an invited talk a bessler
[57:40] start going this year and you talk about
[57:43] the glass or plastics can you give us
[57:45] your first insights how is that when it
[57:47] comes to micro optics how is the market
[57:50] looking at glass versus plastics yeah so
[57:53] so when it comes to when it comes to
[57:55] very small optics typically plastics are
[57:57] the best better choice so you have much
[58:00] much high performance many high
[58:01] performance plastic materials
[58:04] i would not call them plastic because
[58:06] it's it sounds a little bit you know but
[58:08] but the question was was actually glass
[58:10] or plastic so whatever is below 500
[58:13] micron could be a challenge for for
[58:15] glasses but i also mentioned glossomer
[58:18] which which have uh basically a um
[58:22] a formulation of of glass particles in
[58:26] in polymer matrix but you need high high
[58:28] temperature processes for them in order
[58:31] to remove the the organics right so so
[58:33] that you get the performance of the
[58:35] material and
[58:37] i haven't seen actually
[58:40] not of
[58:41] not good enough data so i'm looking
[58:44] forward to to receive some data of them
[58:47] to to take that into account also for
[58:49] many many customers asking me for advice
[58:52] thank you so much thank you very much
[58:55] ruth ruth and i went last week to the
[58:57] peak international conference we also
[58:59] met other people that are in the in the
[59:01] room and we are very happy to see how
[59:04] two-photon polymerization is making a
[59:05] room in the packaging of photonic
[59:07] internet circuits the topic that they
[59:08] want to discuss after the next
[59:10] presentation before that seuss micro up
[59:12] this will renewl you have something to
[59:14] share with us
[59:16] yes thank you uh jose for giving me the
[59:18] floor um well we look of course at all
[59:21] different materials and
[59:22] the difficulty with glass is always um
[59:26] and and who just said it it's it's the
[59:29] high temperature that's one problem and
[59:30] the other is um
[59:32] is the high shrinkage which makes it
[59:34] actually very difficult in to get the
[59:36] shape right so when we
[59:38] so it really depends on the application
[59:40] if you go to imaging optics you need the
[59:42] perfect aceric shape and and to get this
[59:45] right polymers are still much more
[59:47] suitable in micro optics at least than
[59:49] than glasses glasses shrink so much that
[59:52] they deform so much that it's very
[59:53] difficult to compensate this forms in in
[59:56] the masters and the master ring process
[59:59] the origination process process is a
[01:00:01] very expensive process as we all know
[01:00:03] so that's why people opt for for
[01:00:05] plastics
[01:00:06] and um
[01:00:08] so so that's why what things that
[01:00:10] frontal brand do are great because or
[01:00:12] it's directly in the right material so
[01:00:14] this is
[01:00:15] where their strength is obviously
[01:00:18] and we also have to talk about the
[01:00:20] functionalization of the material which
[01:00:22] is uh far more mature in glass than in
[01:00:24] polymer but before that dorothy you have
[01:00:27] something to share with us as well yes i
[01:00:29] just uh what so what's a high shrinkage
[01:00:31] factor and then again if you have an
[01:00:34] isotropic shrinkage then it really is
[01:00:36] not that big of a problem so what's high
[01:00:39] for you when you say high shrinkage
[01:00:53] laser sintering of metals you end up
[01:00:55] having six seven eight nine percent of
[01:00:57] yeah and it's very i'm not saying it's
[01:00:59] impossible it's just very difficult to
[01:01:02] compensate so this is uh and there are
[01:01:05] definitely applications for these glass
[01:01:07] i'm not saying it's not working but but
[01:01:09] we do imaging optics micro lenses below
[01:01:12] way below one millimeter half a
[01:01:14] millimeter in size and and they still
[01:01:16] have to be perfect asus very low rms
[01:01:18] deviations
[01:01:20] and and and i haven't seen these
[01:01:23] these glasses
[01:01:24] it takes a lot of iterations until you
[01:01:26] get that i'm not saying that it doesn't
[01:01:28] work it's just much more difficult to
[01:01:30] get get it under control yeah evil
[01:01:34] i can tell you i can tell you even with
[01:01:36] polymers with low shrinkage factors it
[01:01:39] still takes three to four iterations
[01:01:41] until you get the right length shape and
[01:01:43] this is a very expensive and lengthy
[01:01:45] process
[01:01:46] definitely i mean we do injection
[01:01:47] molding so it's a question also of the
[01:01:49] design it's not only a question of the
[01:01:51] material definitely but isotropic
[01:01:52] shrinkage so you can really
[01:01:55] know what the part will look like in the
[01:01:56] end
[01:01:58] okay thank you well we should talk again
[01:02:01] you have to talk and you have to know
[01:02:03] that both of you are really successful
[01:02:05] stories so you have to find room for
[01:02:07] cooperation do it for me do it for me
[01:02:09] work together for me i want to continue
[01:02:11] with the program i already talked about
[01:02:13] the photonic and treated circuit
[01:02:14] packaging nanoscribe is pushing this to
[01:02:17] the limit vanguard photon is pushing
[01:02:19] this to a living multiphoton optics
[01:02:20] pushing this to the limit you guys are
[01:02:22] doing an amazing job i want to
[01:02:24] understand where this market is going
[01:02:25] and this is one of the key applications
[01:02:27] of our next speaker today we are going
[01:02:30] to
[01:02:30] a beautiful city we are going to castro
[01:02:33] to meet philip gertrich the co-founder
[01:02:36] of vanguard automation philippe good
[01:02:40] afternoon i think casrucka is a
[01:02:41] fantastic city i can't wait to visit it
[01:02:44] the floor and the attention of everyone
[01:02:46] goes to you
[01:02:47] yeah thank you jose for slay show mode
[01:02:50] so we can see the quality that you
[01:02:51] deserve yes of course i'm going in
[01:02:54] yes oh i'm in field mode
[01:02:56] thanks for the kind introduction all the
[01:02:58] energy you bring to this english is much
[01:03:01] appreciated
[01:03:02] all right i'm talking about 3d
[01:03:04] lithography for photonic integration and
[01:03:06] and there is a big big focus on photonic
[01:03:09] integration we're not a 3d printing
[01:03:11] company we're we're using 3d printers to
[01:03:14] do for running integration that's what's
[01:03:16] special about this
[01:03:18] what's our key challenge
[01:03:20] we're looking into solve the following
[01:03:22] challenge we're having two components
[01:03:25] um the prototype system is a
[01:03:27] semiconductor laser and the soi chip and
[01:03:30] we want to interconnect them and what
[01:03:32] would you do usually you would use
[01:03:34] active alignment and and that that
[01:03:36] obviously works nice in some situation
[01:03:38] but it's a very tedious time consuming
[01:03:40] and less expensive process i mean it
[01:03:43] takes up for the majority of all costs
[01:03:45] of assembly that's like if you build a
[01:03:47] car and you spend all the effort just on
[01:03:49] assembling the pipes together and we
[01:03:52] want to solve this challenge we're
[01:03:54] solving it by the following process
[01:03:57] 3d print a freeform waveguide between
[01:04:00] optical components you can see that here
[01:04:02] in green we call it photonic wirebond
[01:04:05] and the photonic wire bond you can
[01:04:07] compensate misalignment of the chips so
[01:04:10] if you're using a high-speed die bond
[01:04:13] like you know from electronics may has
[01:04:15] 10 20 micrometer accuracy so you you
[01:04:18] have a misalignment of say 20 micrometer
[01:04:21] our photonic wire bond can compensate it
[01:04:23] so you have a simple task to assemble
[01:04:26] the chips you can do this really fast
[01:04:28] and we're then solving the assembly
[01:04:30] challenge by 3d printing something to it
[01:04:32] at the same time matching the mode fill
[01:04:34] and doing all the rest
[01:04:36] in the subsequent step we're collecting
[01:04:39] these interfaces with the low index
[01:04:41] polymer that's
[01:04:43] first of all for single mode operation
[01:04:45] all we do is in single mode operation
[01:04:47] and secondly to be reliable to positive
[01:04:51] coordinate tests and so on i'm going to
[01:04:52] talk about this in the end again i'm
[01:04:54] going to come back to this
[01:04:56] so how does it work
[01:04:58] at the
[01:04:59] let's say it's the engine of our process
[01:05:01] but it's just just a small part it's
[01:05:04] just a part let's say that way it's a 3d
[01:05:06] printing process it's also two photon
[01:05:08] polymerization so what we do we take
[01:05:11] objective lens up here and we have a
[01:05:14] second laser beam that can hook it into
[01:05:16] a resistant polymerizer and with this
[01:05:18] objective lens we we look at our laser
[01:05:21] we look at output we localize it with
[01:05:24] 700 nanometer accuracy we automatically
[01:05:27] calculate the trajectory that connects
[01:05:30] these two tips and then the machine does
[01:05:32] everything else itself and that can go
[01:05:35] in quite attractive cycling times for
[01:05:37] many applications and we supply the
[01:05:40] whole process we we don't supply we
[01:05:42] don't give you a 3d printer we sell the
[01:05:45] process that connects optical
[01:05:48] chips to give you an example on the left
[01:05:51] side you can see that here in green is
[01:05:53] the photonic wire bond connecting soi
[01:05:56] chip here on the top with a laser
[01:05:59] so this is 20 micrometer so it's maybe
[01:06:00] 250 micrometers long and you can see if
[01:06:03] you can look carefully it's compensating
[01:06:06] from lateral mid alignment which would
[01:06:08] otherwise lead to well incredible high
[01:06:11] coupling loss and we can do with this we
[01:06:13] can do typically let's say qdb that's a
[01:06:15] very reasonable value we can go lower
[01:06:17] and play uh some specifications um
[01:06:20] so uh so the performance is really
[01:06:22] attractive i believe of course our
[01:06:25] technology can be also applied to any
[01:06:27] other optical component like a uh plc
[01:06:31] 420 uh tip here uh that is connected to
[01:06:34] a single mode fiber and and and and if
[01:06:37] you look at the uh if you look at the
[01:06:39] tip here at the signal match five you
[01:06:41] see it's paper structure the point where
[01:06:44] i bond is getting bigger you can have
[01:06:46] nice mode matching to pretty much
[01:06:48] anything
[01:06:49] and that gives you very low coupling
[01:06:51] loss
[01:06:52] now with that said we cannot only print
[01:06:54] photonic wire once of course we can
[01:06:56] print 3d lenses for example you can see
[01:06:58] them here and our main value proposition
[01:07:01] is there their reliability test so i'm
[01:07:05] absolutely a polymer person in this
[01:07:07] polymer
[01:07:08] uh class discussion that is because we
[01:07:10] can make polymers reliable and they have
[01:07:13] the key advantages that if you print
[01:07:15] them on something they don't shrink
[01:07:17] we can we can have teleported tests and
[01:07:20] have
[01:07:21] shrinkage well below one percent like
[01:07:23] 0.5 so so it's really really accurate we
[01:07:27] can have plus minus 50 100 nanometers
[01:07:30] surface accuracy we have we can have sub
[01:07:33] 10 nanometer
[01:07:34] surface roughness so the performance is
[01:07:37] really superior and at the same time
[01:07:39] very stable even for the application
[01:07:42] we're close to another specs to not
[01:07:45] operate guessing space
[01:07:46] now this is our
[01:07:48] key product that's the sonata that's a
[01:07:51] 3d printing machine it can handle big
[01:07:53] wafers 12 inch
[01:07:55] and it's a fully automated system
[01:07:58] now that's not the only thing that we
[01:08:00] sell we actually actually sell the whole
[01:08:01] package
[01:08:02] so we also have a system which takes
[01:08:06] over the dispensing the development and
[01:08:10] and and the cladding of of the photonic
[01:08:13] wireborn
[01:08:14] so this um this device is called the
[01:08:16] reprise and this allows you to actually
[01:08:20] insert chips
[01:08:21] sample chips of course we do the 3d
[01:08:24] printing we do the resist dispensing we
[01:08:27] do the development we do the cladding we
[01:08:29] go through we give you the whole process
[01:08:32] you do not you do not need to establish
[01:08:34] the process of 3d printing the optical
[01:08:37] elements we give that to you so you can
[01:08:40] start fabrication with our devices
[01:08:43] and uh just to give you an idea how the
[01:08:46] file interface can look like here you
[01:08:48] have a filmmate 5 array on the bottom
[01:08:50] left it doesn't peel
[01:08:52] the machine does the cladding you can
[01:08:54] see that here and it automatically
[01:08:57] encapsules everything and make sure your
[01:08:59] devices are reliable
[01:09:01] to sum up our product is an assembly
[01:09:04] line or a is a
[01:09:07] is a combined combination of machines
[01:09:10] processes material software everything
[01:09:13] you need to connect optical chips we
[01:09:16] have typical performance of say rgb we
[01:09:18] have minus 30 db reference reflection
[01:09:21] that's important for lasers and we have
[01:09:23] tested um
[01:09:25] knee devices for 85 85 we've tested them
[01:09:28] for minus 40 80 difficult 85 actually
[01:09:32] typical cardiac specs
[01:09:35] actually lenses have gone through high
[01:09:36] acceleration reflux or during um
[01:09:40] gold solving ants on cryo operation and
[01:09:42] even high power operation
[01:09:44] so now uh to actually answer the most
[01:09:48] important question of the targets what
[01:09:50] we offer is a laser
[01:09:52] single mode fiber integration without
[01:09:54] active alignment so solving a huge
[01:09:57] challenge i believe what we're looking
[01:09:59] for obviously customers that are willing
[01:10:01] to adapt our technology we are demanding
[01:10:04] on rethinking your fabrication process
[01:10:07] but i think we can solve very very
[01:10:10] important challenges of photonic
[01:10:11] integration
[01:10:15] thank you so much for the presentation i
[01:10:17] have to ask you because
[01:10:20] we've been talking to you and to
[01:10:21] christian course already for for many
[01:10:24] years about how to bring the photonic
[01:10:26] internet circuit a community to interact
[01:10:30] with i i know that the collaboration
[01:10:32] with ficon tech and your your
[01:10:34] introduction in the pixel pyro link have
[01:10:35] made a difference uh what is the current
[01:10:38] scenario what is the call you define the
[01:10:41] technology readiness level for packaging
[01:10:44] photonic integrated circuits with
[01:10:47] to photon polymerization
[01:10:49] so
[01:10:50] so what we can have is we have
[01:10:53] demonstrator assemblies reference
[01:10:55] assemblies that show how the technology
[01:10:57] works
[01:10:58] so that's uh that also has undergone um
[01:11:01] telecoordinate
[01:11:02] tests and that's a typical trl6 level so
[01:11:05] that's that's the level until uh we
[01:11:08] qualify products of course customers
[01:11:10] that already have our machines are going
[01:11:12] further on this so we've given them that
[01:11:15] uh the process and they're implementing
[01:11:17] it into their their product their
[01:11:19] building system office and and this is
[01:11:21] then moving uh away from uh from six so
[01:11:25] but but but six is is like um i i think
[01:11:28] that's uh uh a test um or a um a
[01:11:32] prototype in uh in the relevant
[01:11:34] environment so that's what we can
[01:11:37] what we can give you
[01:11:39] hi i've been to the debate martin from
[01:11:41] nanoscribe and willie from multiphoton
[01:11:44] optics
[01:11:45] uh
[01:11:46] what is the current scenario is this a
[01:11:49] technology for prototyping or do we
[01:11:52] believe that we can go into production
[01:11:54] for the for the packaging and fiber to
[01:11:57] chip assembly of photonic internet
[01:11:59] circuits
[01:12:02] let's start since you're the three of
[01:12:03] you very polite let's start with martin
[01:12:06] ferenoscribe
[01:12:08] clear we go for production that's the
[01:12:10] clear target
[01:12:12] there's no excuse it will go forward
[01:12:15] until mass production of optics i'm
[01:12:18] pretty certain
[01:12:19] for many other applications silicon
[01:12:21] photonics for example a transceiver the
[01:12:23] the rocket photonics in in in wearables
[01:12:27] or even the technology for free space
[01:12:29] communication in nanosatellites we are
[01:12:30] targeting
[01:12:32] large volume manufacturing we are
[01:12:34] talking about millions per year is that
[01:12:37] a a volume that we can target with to
[01:12:40] photon polymerization
[01:12:41] yes yes definitely
[01:12:44] it's the fastest let's say if you think
[01:12:47] about the technologies on the market in
[01:12:49] 3d printing
[01:12:51] in additive microfabrication if you take
[01:12:53] the volume
[01:12:54] pixel the smallest building block into
[01:12:57] account then two-photon polymerization
[01:12:59] is the fastest technology on the market
[01:13:02] and integrated photonics is a perfect
[01:13:04] example where both the shape accuracy as
[01:13:07] well as the volume are ideal for two
[01:13:09] photon polymerization it's inevitable
[01:13:11] that it needs to succeed
[01:13:14] i i am as positive as you are asking the
[01:13:16] questions because i want to hear what
[01:13:17] you're saying hey willie from
[01:13:19] multiphoton optics say don't be too
[01:13:21] quiet by the way really i'm a huge fan
[01:13:23] of you as a person for how fantastic you
[01:13:26] are in what you do but also a big fan of
[01:13:28] multiphoton optics
[01:13:30] how did you see this photonic integrity
[01:13:32] circuit packaging this is still the
[01:13:33] eternal promise or the reality for this
[01:13:36] technology yeah thank you um so that is
[01:13:39] very interesting topic and um it is a
[01:13:41] target for us to bring this to the
[01:13:43] production so right now it is not really
[01:13:46] at a production um level but we are
[01:13:49] hoping to get this done pretty soon
[01:13:52] we have sorry a i think bruce wanted to
[01:13:54] comment bruce who wears something mate
[01:13:59] i um
[01:14:00] i i think i think both are right but i
[01:14:03] think they miss uh one really major
[01:14:06] point is that you need to integrate that
[01:14:08] in a whole
[01:14:10] sphere of different technologies so uh
[01:14:14] what we demonstrated like in in 2007 or
[01:14:17] so before i founded this company was
[01:14:20] that that this is possible and we had
[01:14:22] like a raid which was like 12 centimeter
[01:14:25] wave guides
[01:14:27] and and a huge
[01:14:30] data transfer rate but still you need to
[01:14:33] implement that into a
[01:14:35] real environment meaning each customer
[01:14:38] has a certain design and each customer
[01:14:41] wants to have something different
[01:14:43] meaning the
[01:14:44] the flexibility of the tool of the let's
[01:14:48] say two photo lithography
[01:14:51] is
[01:14:52] tremendous but
[01:14:54] you need to adapt that and you need to
[01:14:56] implement that into the mouse process
[01:14:58] and i never would have founded
[01:15:00] multiphoton
[01:15:02] at that time when i would not have been
[01:15:04] sure that this is possible and i still
[01:15:06] think
[01:15:07] you just need to do the right things
[01:15:10] so it's up to the to the guys to do the
[01:15:14] right things
[01:15:15] i also bring to the discussion henry
[01:15:18] henry jackson which is also the founder
[01:15:20] of app nano a newcomer in this industry
[01:15:23] thank you very much henry for being with
[01:15:25] us today you have seen the initial
[01:15:27] discussions we talked already about
[01:15:28] glass versus polymer we talked about 3d
[01:15:30] printing being only not for polymer that
[01:15:33] was the first crashing
[01:15:35] argument that we had today how you see
[01:15:37] this industry and what is the piece in
[01:15:39] the puzzle that you cover and for the
[01:15:41] others there's a couple of questions in
[01:15:42] the room and gonna come afterwards
[01:15:44] hendrik sure sure so thank you very much
[01:15:46] for the the questions first i'm not a
[01:15:48] founder of up nano i i worked with
[01:15:51] martin just until last year so
[01:15:54] but yes i see absolutely as previously
[01:15:57] said
[01:15:58] the smaller the lenses the more the
[01:16:01] polymer comes into its play
[01:16:03] um
[01:16:04] i would say absolutely so of course i'm
[01:16:07] a polymer guy um just as we've been
[01:16:10] talking about earlier on uh two photon
[01:16:13] polymerization is an excellent tool for
[01:16:16] um
[01:16:17] polymer optics
[01:16:19] and of course up nano and the difference
[01:16:22] to the the previous speakers is the app
[01:16:24] nano makes a high speed two photon
[01:16:26] pronunciation printer for example for
[01:16:28] doing meta lenses and so on i will just
[01:16:30] show you my today's single slide
[01:16:34] please show us
[01:16:36] and i'm very very very amazed on how
[01:16:38] fast app nano has made the machines
[01:16:41] already available for for a
[01:16:43] manufacturing please tell us henrik
[01:16:46] exactly so um of course we work with
[01:16:48] glass we work with glassomer we work
[01:16:50] with polymer and not only the
[01:16:53] non-fluorescent transparent material
[01:16:55] with high and low
[01:16:57] refractive index and so on but what i
[01:16:59] want to show today just quickly is the
[01:17:02] equally important
[01:17:04] aspect which is the possibility to block
[01:17:06] light right so we have the glass
[01:17:09] material we have the polymer material
[01:17:11] but we also see a great request for
[01:17:14] being able to block materials so in this
[01:17:16] case we printed a polymer lens with a
[01:17:19] lens barrel
[01:17:21] 1.4
[01:17:22] millimeter in diameter and of course
[01:17:25] this can be holders for large
[01:17:28] metal lenses and can use the other way
[01:17:31] just wanted to introduce just quickly
[01:17:33] while we're here um and this material is
[01:17:35] super super black it blocks light from
[01:17:39] 100 micron thickness basically
[01:17:42] super black
[01:17:44] and i want to come back to you later but
[01:17:46] now we have to address a few questions
[01:17:47] that we have in the room the first one
[01:17:49] is coming from switzerland a micro
[01:17:51] optics manufacturer who has been
[01:17:53] introducing micro optics into
[01:17:55] instrumentation of course i'm talking
[01:17:57] about fispa withy thank you very much
[01:17:59] for being with us today tell us what's
[01:18:01] on your mind i think you have a question
[01:18:02] for bangword and also for multiphoton
[01:18:06] well my question was a very simple one
[01:18:09] so as to my knowledge most of this
[01:18:12] photonic wire bonding is used in
[01:18:14] telecommunication
[01:18:16] if you would bring this
[01:18:18] up a level in power
[01:18:20] can you tell me is there a limitation
[01:18:23] you know by today for polymer or i think
[01:18:26] multi-photon is even working on almost
[01:18:28] as uh
[01:18:30] how far you can drive the power up by
[01:18:32] still keeping some lifetime yeah so we
[01:18:35] have tested that actually um we've used
[01:18:39] fiber to fiber connect as a simple task
[01:18:42] system because there you can increase
[01:18:44] the power to sufficient level to
[01:18:46] actually see failure
[01:18:47] and the power levels to which we can go
[01:18:50] reliably is minus 27 dbm
[01:18:54] if you go higher high you see some thumb
[01:18:57] effects you see some heating which
[01:18:59] causes
[01:19:00] deformation or whatever and and
[01:19:02] eventually actually um also failure
[01:19:06] for for lenses it's a bit higher it goes
[01:19:09] from the 30 dbm region
[01:19:11] but but it's quite similar i'm both
[01:19:13] talking about c band o band we haven't
[01:19:15] casted but it should be a bit better
[01:19:17] because absorption is lower and now
[01:19:20] transferring this to the dial places we
[01:19:22] haven't tested these power levels on on
[01:19:24] diet lasers yet but i would expect that
[01:19:27] we can easily go into the same breach
[01:19:29] and the reason is the reason is we
[01:19:31] wouldn't 3d print the lenses directly on
[01:19:33] the faucet because they have incredibly
[01:19:35] high intensities but we would offset
[01:19:37] them by pillars
[01:19:38] and then you have the beam expanded a
[01:19:40] bit that intensity is not that high and
[01:19:44] and and i i think you can you can go
[01:19:46] into such politics eventually that that
[01:19:49] must be tested so if you want approaches
[01:19:51] we can have there an evaluation project
[01:19:54] i have a suggestion for a suitable test
[01:19:56] um system and and
[01:19:59] we can demonstrate that this works
[01:20:04] did a fantastic job bringing all these
[01:20:06] companies who are
[01:20:08] competitors but at the same time amazing
[01:20:11] friends i really want to organize a
[01:20:12] meeting somewhere maybe in jenna or
[01:20:14] somewhere like that in a switzerland of
[01:20:16] optics and and talk about a polymer
[01:20:19] versus versus glass because that will be
[01:20:23] you know and we're going to get t-shirts
[01:20:24] i'm a polymer guy i'm a class guy
[01:20:26] panagiotis you brought all these
[01:20:27] companies i want to understand how they
[01:20:29] compare to each other i understand there
[01:20:32] is one company who didn't show their one
[01:20:34] slide yet to bring the whole puzzle
[01:20:36] together
[01:20:37] yes yes it's true jose
[01:20:39] this is amazing today where it's
[01:20:40] happening we have a lot of speakers
[01:20:42] covering all the on the supply chain
[01:20:44] and uh
[01:20:46] we have a lot of participants and i'm
[01:20:48] very happy for that and the there is
[01:20:50] it's true that uh uh moody photon optics
[01:20:52] really would like to present also some
[01:20:54] things uh to the rest of the
[01:20:56] participants so please really if you
[01:20:57] want
[01:20:59] okay thank you i will
[01:21:02] okay
[01:21:03] i hope you can see my slide so i'm
[01:21:05] willie from multi-photon optics and uh
[01:21:08] we are
[01:21:09] developing and two photon polymerization
[01:21:11] equipment and with this you can
[01:21:13] structure land stacks you can structure
[01:21:15] devices you can structure um lenses on
[01:21:18] devices and waveguides the practical
[01:21:20] optical elements and so on and most of
[01:21:22] the time we use the industrial reliable
[01:21:25] material class of almost sales and the
[01:21:28] applications are in the structuring of
[01:21:30] function components and in mastering
[01:21:33] there are many mastering applications
[01:21:35] out there and for example you have here
[01:21:38] in a picture of an electro plated
[01:21:41] replication to it then we have some
[01:21:42] paramedic structures replicated in a
[01:21:45] very
[01:21:46] huge area um going back to the function
[01:21:49] components so the material class of
[01:21:51] omozer has a very high optical
[01:21:53] resistivity making them ideal for
[01:21:55] functional components
[01:21:57] this test
[01:21:58] is a micro lens fabricated on a dfb
[01:22:01] laser and the optical power is at a
[01:22:03] megawatt per square centimeter and since
[01:22:06] now they are running for over two years
[01:22:08] and looks quite good that they will run
[01:22:10] on it on
[01:22:11] and the scalability of this technique is
[01:22:14] the resolution down to 100 nanometer so
[01:22:17] on the right side you see a metal lens
[01:22:19] and this consists of different pillar
[01:22:21] sizes down to 100 meter and up to 459
[01:22:25] meter
[01:22:26] and also the scan speed so we showed up
[01:22:29] to 1 000 millimeters per second which
[01:22:31] you can see on the bottom wide picture
[01:22:33] and these structures are up to in
[01:22:36] millimeter times the millimeter times
[01:22:37] the millimeter so what are the questions
[01:22:40] what can we do for you we provide an
[01:22:43] equipment and processes for advanced 3d
[01:22:45] micro fabrication and since we are part
[01:22:48] of hyderback instruments we have more
[01:22:50] technologies available like masterless
[01:22:52] uv lithography or like thermostating
[01:22:55] probe lithography machines and what can
[01:22:58] you do for us you can get us involved at
[01:23:00] an early stage in your technology
[01:23:02] program that would be really great and
[01:23:04] i'm thanking you for the possibility to
[01:23:06] talk to you
[01:23:08] hey willie what you have done and what
[01:23:11] the what ruth
[01:23:12] hoover has done in the previous years
[01:23:14] and the acquisition by color the
[01:23:16] instruments are a success beautiful
[01:23:19] story epic thank you very much for that
[01:23:22] and i also would like to understand a
[01:23:23] bit uh what kind of partners and what
[01:23:27] strategic partnerships would you be
[01:23:28] looking for from this network in essence
[01:23:30] the epic question what can you do for
[01:23:31] them what can they do for you
[01:23:34] so
[01:23:35] don't repeat what is written give us a
[01:23:37] bit more meat there are you looking for
[01:23:39] any material suppliers are you looking
[01:23:40] for some particular challenges how do
[01:23:42] you see the bio market is higher
[01:23:43] liability one target tell us
[01:23:46] yeah so right now you can give us um you
[01:23:48] can give us applications and you can
[01:23:50] give us different kind of structures for
[01:23:52] these applications to test because we
[01:23:54] have already tested a quite variety of
[01:23:57] different applications and we would we
[01:23:59] would like to go further to different
[01:24:01] application and also um what we can
[01:24:04] offer you is the synergy we have with
[01:24:06] heidelberg instruments so um yeah so we
[01:24:09] are right now making a new product
[01:24:12] okay so let's talk about applications
[01:24:14] i'm gonna come to you you give me a
[01:24:15] challenge and i will address it we have
[01:24:17] a company that is doing
[01:24:19] in vivo monitoring in the room i'm
[01:24:22] talking about the company river the
[01:24:24] diagnostics when the company river dnos
[01:24:26] is presented by ah
[01:24:29] do you know when you make this meeting's
[01:24:30] life
[01:24:31] the at the last minute when you're
[01:24:32] introducing the person his connection
[01:24:34] drops that's what just happened so
[01:24:36] liberty diagnostic is not here
[01:24:38] unfortunately maybe they will join a bit
[01:24:40] later before we give the floor to the
[01:24:42] presentation that you all are waiting
[01:24:44] for the presentation for luke's excel i
[01:24:46] want to understand a bit from the end
[01:24:48] user side what other challenges we have
[01:24:50] in the room widow groot julia medak
[01:24:52] thank you very much joining it's
[01:24:54] fantastic to have you in the room i love
[01:24:56] what you're doing i want to introduce
[01:24:58] you properly to introduce you properly
[01:25:00] i'm going to introduce two people who
[01:25:02] really told me i want to be here because
[01:25:04] looks excel is here so the first person
[01:25:07] that i want to introduce is the ceo of a
[01:25:10] company in the
[01:25:11] segment ralph noel good afternoon
[01:25:15] beautiful beautiful background the one
[01:25:16] that you have ralph er tell us why you
[01:25:18] were so excited about how it looks
[01:25:20] excellent in the room and what kind of
[01:25:22] preliminary question do you have for
[01:25:23] them
[01:25:24] yeah sure um well if it's a preliminary
[01:25:28] question um first of all um
[01:25:34] what we do is
[01:25:36] we produce eyewear for the ar industry
[01:25:40] it looks like this this is the first
[01:25:41] prototype so
[01:25:43] um it has
[01:25:44] an an outer glass and it has a
[01:25:48] lcd shutter element inside and we send
[01:25:51] sandwich these both um components
[01:25:56] and
[01:25:57] my first question would be
[01:25:59] how how many minutes would it take for
[01:26:02] you
[01:26:03] to print
[01:26:04] a lens and how much will it cost we
[01:26:08] don't answer that question yet we are
[01:26:09] going to answer it after your
[01:26:11] presentation but this is the first one
[01:26:14] because i
[01:26:15] i'm asking this question because we are
[01:26:17] doing this sandwiching thing we are
[01:26:19] buying simply triwex or polycarbonate
[01:26:23] from the usual suspects like um
[01:26:26] alcom hoya optispace etc and then we add
[01:26:30] an lcd and the lens cost is just six
[01:26:34] euros roughly speaking
[01:26:36] and then we add a shutter which is maybe
[01:26:38] 10 euros
[01:26:40] so we end up with 16 euros only per
[01:26:43] glass and we have a fully fledged
[01:26:45] anti-glare system for the end user and
[01:26:49] therefore it's very interesting to see
[01:26:52] how the competitive landscape is
[01:26:54] developing in the future and therefore
[01:26:57] this question i'm going to come back to
[01:26:58] you of course ralph with the right
[01:27:00] answer before that widow i'm so happy
[01:27:02] that you're here there is somebody else
[01:27:03] who is very excited about this we have
[01:27:05] harold pierre from the company ceno gent
[01:27:08] harold good afternoon
[01:27:10] good afternoon everybody are you so
[01:27:11] excited of having luke's excel in the
[01:27:12] room
[01:27:14] yeah yes i would like to to learn about
[01:27:16] the current status of
[01:27:18] 3d printed optics because it's an
[01:27:21] important tool for prototyping for
[01:27:23] testing
[01:27:25] maybe for mass manufacturing i think we
[01:27:27] will hear about it and cost of course
[01:27:29] that's important and also because it's
[01:27:31] uh maybe a very useful tool to tackle um
[01:27:36] the issue of light pollution in outdoor
[01:27:38] lighting because
[01:27:40] i think we need a lot more
[01:27:42] and a lot more precise
[01:27:45] tools to shape light output
[01:27:49] in outdoor to avoid
[01:27:51] sending light to locations where it
[01:27:53] shouldn't go especially towards the sky
[01:27:56] and
[01:27:57] i wonder what
[01:28:00] 3d printed individualized optics can do
[01:28:02] or even micro optics can help and
[01:28:04] support in
[01:28:06] bet in in getting better cut offs better
[01:28:09] shaping of light we have in the room
[01:28:11] companies like renault companies like
[01:28:13] leica like shot we are all really
[01:28:16] excited i had the honor and pleasure to
[01:28:18] introduce a success story in europe
[01:28:20] right now a company that switched their
[01:28:22] business line to towards of talmik
[01:28:25] lenses with a truly belief that often
[01:28:27] can be printed on site and now they're
[01:28:29] looking for partnerships to bring
[01:28:31] additional intelligence all the way to
[01:28:33] arvr they are already the only producers
[01:28:36] in the world in the world of customers
[01:28:39] of termini lenses that can actually do
[01:28:41] at the same time augmented reality i had
[01:28:44] the honor to introduce a person that i
[01:28:46] know already for many years who i met
[01:28:48] with the group the floor and the
[01:28:50] attention of everyone i'm so excited to
[01:28:52] say this goes to looks excel
[01:28:55] [Music]
[01:28:57] it's a pleasure talking to you again
[01:28:59] we've known each other for years so
[01:29:01] i have prepared a few slides
[01:29:04] that will answer some of your questions
[01:29:06] the first thing i'm going to see you was
[01:29:07] like a decade ago i saw the laboratories
[01:29:09] the printer they are in ghost things
[01:29:11] have moved so so much and so fast in the
[01:29:14] last years i love when great things
[01:29:16] happen to great people the floor is
[01:29:17] yours
[01:29:19] okay thank you
[01:29:21] so maybe for people who do not know us
[01:29:24] we
[01:29:24] we are a dutch company and we have
[01:29:27] developed over many years the technology
[01:29:29] to 3d print lenses
[01:29:30] and
[01:29:32] as you might know we started off
[01:29:34] by printing all types of different
[01:29:36] lenses
[01:29:37] and
[01:29:38] over the years we've really focused on
[01:29:40] ophthalmic lenses and why ophthalmic
[01:29:43] lenses
[01:29:44] and well the main reason is it's huge
[01:29:46] markets right three out of four people
[01:29:48] need to wear prescription and you can
[01:29:50] see it in every all the participants
[01:29:52] here it's about the three out of four
[01:29:54] people need prescription and secondly
[01:29:56] all of these lenses are different which
[01:29:58] is of course great for 3d printing
[01:30:00] because that's what we do right we can
[01:30:02] make volume products
[01:30:04] individually customized and so um
[01:30:09] our focus today is um
[01:30:12] of course prescription lenses but we
[01:30:14] also found that we have something unique
[01:30:16] to offer to the smart highway space
[01:30:18] which is what our sweet spot is today
[01:30:20] we have
[01:30:21] partnerships with pretty much every big
[01:30:24] tech company that is looking at smart
[01:30:26] classes
[01:30:28] and all of them rely on our technology
[01:30:31] uh to make those smart classes with
[01:30:33] prescription and coming to your comment
[01:30:35] from earlier wealth i'll explain you why
[01:30:37] it makes sense to use our technology to
[01:30:40] do that
[01:30:41] so the first question everybody asked us
[01:30:43] so why do you want to 3d print a lens
[01:30:45] well there's many many reasons but if
[01:30:48] you put them all in buckets i think
[01:30:50] there's two main reasons the first one
[01:30:52] is
[01:30:53] with our technology you can make smart
[01:30:55] lenses look like smart glasses i should
[01:30:58] say look like normal glasses so we all
[01:31:00] know the smart irish space everybody
[01:31:03] used to wear helmets
[01:31:04] well we're not in the helmet business
[01:31:06] we're in the eyewear business so with
[01:31:08] our technology you can actually make
[01:31:10] these smart glasses look like normal
[01:31:12] blouses because we make them thin
[01:31:14] light with prescription and fully
[01:31:16] integrated so that's a major benefit of
[01:31:18] our technology
[01:31:20] and the second point is it's a lot
[01:31:22] simpler to 3d print the lens than to use
[01:31:24] traditional lens manufacturing
[01:31:26] technologies i know there's a lot of
[01:31:28] people here who are very familiar with
[01:31:30] traditional lensmaking technologies but
[01:31:32] to make traditional eyewear lenses takes
[01:31:35] about 30 plus process steps that goes
[01:31:37] from injection molding to
[01:31:40] to cnc
[01:31:41] polishing blocking edging i mean you can
[01:31:44] name it there's so many process steps
[01:31:46] it's a very complex process with long
[01:31:49] supply chains and a lot of inventory and
[01:31:52] with our technology you print the lens
[01:31:54] and it's ready when it comes out of the
[01:31:55] printer so
[01:31:57] the two main reasons print lenses is you
[01:31:59] can make thin light fully integrated
[01:32:02] prescription lenses and you can do it
[01:32:05] with one processor
[01:32:07] um
[01:32:08] how do you 3d print the lens
[01:32:10] well
[01:32:11] i simplified it here
[01:32:13] so basically we start with a bottle of
[01:32:15] ink
[01:32:16] the machine makes tiny little droplets
[01:32:18] very very small in pico liter range
[01:32:21] we deposit them exactly where they are
[01:32:23] needed and then we cure them in place
[01:32:26] and we don't cure them fully we
[01:32:27] partially cure them so that they
[01:32:28] integrate with the other droplets so
[01:32:30] that you get a fully transparent lens
[01:32:32] that does not require any polishing
[01:32:35] and
[01:32:36] is ready to be used once it comes out of
[01:32:37] the printer
[01:32:39] um yeah in a nutshell that's what we do
[01:32:42] we make very small droplets
[01:32:44] [Music]
[01:32:46] so
[01:32:48] the reason we're so precise is we use
[01:32:50] very very small droplets the reason we
[01:32:53] achieve
[01:32:54] high speed
[01:32:55] and coming to your point ralph how long
[01:32:57] does it take well to print a batch of
[01:33:00] lenses takes about depending on the
[01:33:01] prescription and some more variables but
[01:33:03] roughly between half an hour and an hour
[01:33:05] to print the batch of lenses so it goes
[01:33:08] very fast for 3d printing and that is
[01:33:10] because we massively parallel deposit
[01:33:13] these droplets
[01:33:15] the other thing that's
[01:33:17] great about the technology it's because
[01:33:18] we use droplets we let them flow you can
[01:33:21] imagine that it become perfectly smooth
[01:33:23] so we achieve a service roughness and
[01:33:25] the five nanometer range so it's very
[01:33:28] smooth without any polishing
[01:33:30] which
[01:33:31] is a great benefit not only because it
[01:33:33] simplifies things but also because it
[01:33:35] doesn't damage
[01:33:36] for example
[01:33:38] a smart device that you integrate into a
[01:33:39] lens because there's no force of light
[01:33:42] um
[01:33:43] and also because we use these droplets
[01:33:45] and we don't we do this at um close
[01:33:48] route to room temperature there's also
[01:33:50] no
[01:33:51] no no stress applied to the lens and so
[01:33:54] um it's it's a very usable end straight
[01:33:56] out of the printer
[01:33:58] we are compatible our technology our
[01:33:59] material is compatible with all kind of
[01:34:01] industry coating processes but we can
[01:34:03] even print
[01:34:05] coatings
[01:34:07] we can make of course all the usual
[01:34:09] shapes and many others with our
[01:34:11] technology because we build the shape as
[01:34:13] we go
[01:34:14] and we have a
[01:34:15] family of materials that we that apply
[01:34:17] to different applications
[01:34:21] how do you integrate smart devices well
[01:34:23] what we do is we print the front with
[01:34:25] the power back with the right optical
[01:34:27] powers we can even create air gaps if
[01:34:30] the application requires an air gap or
[01:34:33] we can print straight on the on the wave
[01:34:35] guide if that is possible
[01:34:38] we can print the mountings for the light
[01:34:39] engine and so we can provide the fully
[01:34:42] integrated device
[01:34:44] straight out of the printer ready to be
[01:34:47] uh to click the the light engine on
[01:34:49] uh which is really our biggest benefit
[01:34:52] our biggest benefit is um
[01:34:54] that is really that with our technology
[01:34:56] you can make a thin
[01:34:58] lightweight small device ready to be
[01:35:00] used without any stress with the
[01:35:02] mounting attached and what you get from
[01:35:05] that
[01:35:06] are for example here are examples of
[01:35:08] waveguides we have integrated on the
[01:35:10] left top
[01:35:11] you see a waveguide from wave optics
[01:35:13] that we have integrated you see the
[01:35:15] waveguide sitting in the middle you see
[01:35:16] it printed the mounting for the
[01:35:18] projector to click on this one actually
[01:35:20] has a prescription of minus one diopters
[01:35:23] and plus one diopters on the front
[01:35:25] and you can see how we create a device
[01:35:27] and that you see the bottom right corner
[01:35:29] that you can click straight into a frame
[01:35:32] and it's a very lightweight
[01:35:34] the thinnest
[01:35:35] the back side of the waveguide for
[01:35:37] example we can print at 550 microns
[01:35:39] thickness which with traditional lens
[01:35:41] technology if you glue them together you
[01:35:43] will not be able to achieve 50 micron
[01:35:45] thickness
[01:35:46] on the left bottom you see another
[01:35:48] waveguide from lumos which is a
[01:35:49] reflective waveguide that we've
[01:35:51] integrated
[01:35:52] you can see how we kept the entry pupil
[01:35:55] the entry prism free of any um deposits
[01:35:58] uh we can also print all kind of other
[01:36:01] shapes of course like these micro lenses
[01:36:03] that you should you see on the right top
[01:36:06] so
[01:36:07] with our technology you can really
[01:36:09] integrate anything you like into a lens
[01:36:11] which is of course a great benefit for
[01:36:13] smart ira
[01:36:17] so
[01:36:17] our technology is really a turnkey
[01:36:19] solution it's one printer and materials
[01:36:21] and software that comes with it to bring
[01:36:23] together the process
[01:36:26] we work like i mentioned earlier with
[01:36:28] all the big tech companies that are
[01:36:29] looking to make smart classes we have
[01:36:31] customers that produce this in volume
[01:36:34] with our technology
[01:36:35] so it's a proven volume technology
[01:36:38] it's certified which for ophthalmic lens
[01:36:40] is of course an important aspect and we
[01:36:43] can integrate of pretty much anything
[01:36:45] you guys can come up with but maybe i
[01:36:47] shouldn't say it in this audience
[01:36:49] because i'm sure you guys can come up
[01:36:50] with something that
[01:36:52] offers additional challenges
[01:36:54] and uh yeah as far as we know we're the
[01:36:56] only ones able to do it in the in this
[01:36:58] way
[01:37:00] like like you were saying earlier you
[01:37:01] can of course glue together
[01:37:02] traditionally manufactured lenses
[01:37:04] absolutely that's possible but i believe
[01:37:06] you cannot achieve the same thickness
[01:37:08] and weight and integration that you can
[01:37:10] do with our technology
[01:37:12] that's in a nutshell what i wanted to
[01:37:14] tell you guys and
[01:37:15] i'll be happy to take uh take your
[01:37:17] questions
[01:37:19] from the bottom of my heart
[01:37:21] congratulations
[01:37:23] congratulations this is a success story
[01:37:25] in europe and you have been for many
[01:37:28] years interacting with many companies to
[01:37:31] make it happen today you have the
[01:37:34] services and through very strategic
[01:37:36] cooperations
[01:37:37] you have actually managed to reach some
[01:37:39] of the markets some of these strategic
[01:37:40] corporations are actually public uh so i
[01:37:44] i don't know you want to mention some of
[01:37:46] them it's a strategic operation that you
[01:37:47] are
[01:37:48] exchanging to address this huge market
[01:37:51] which is of thermology well i cannot
[01:37:53] disclose the names for our customers um
[01:37:57] these are the big let me just say these
[01:37:59] are you're all familiar with the names
[01:38:01] and they're all the big tech companies
[01:38:02] working in smart eyewear
[01:38:04] and they're at the same time extremely
[01:38:06] secretive and they um ask us your child
[01:38:09] in uh
[01:38:10] as a security not just disclose their
[01:38:12] name so we cannot disclose the names of
[01:38:14] our customers
[01:38:15] however
[01:38:16] on the supply side we work together with
[01:38:19] a number of wave guides companies and
[01:38:22] other companies that work in this space
[01:38:26] the only customers you're right because
[01:38:28] the only customer can disclose is up
[01:38:29] this way
[01:38:30] absolutely sorry you're absolutely right
[01:38:33] and the optivist is of course an
[01:38:34] opthalmic lab in switzerland that we
[01:38:36] work with
[01:38:37] and they use our technology to actually
[01:38:40] help some of our customers with
[01:38:43] prescription smart lenses
[01:38:45] we have a lot of discussion to do with
[01:38:47] you in the next 20 minutes so please be
[01:38:50] ready let me start there's a company in
[01:38:52] the room that is in stealth mode and
[01:38:53] they asked me to read the question for
[01:38:55] them
[01:38:56] so without what is the maximum
[01:38:58] resolution you can print that and can
[01:39:00] you print blazed gratings on a what
[01:39:04] scale
[01:39:05] okay
[01:39:07] that's a very specific question so
[01:39:11] we can print very small features um
[01:39:14] we have an application today for a
[01:39:16] customer that needs very small
[01:39:19] like i say can i say dots on top of a
[01:39:21] lens and they can be in the nano in the
[01:39:24] 20 30 nanometer range so that's the
[01:39:27] smallest we can go and still achieve a
[01:39:29] good um
[01:39:30] a good optical quality
[01:39:32] um
[01:39:34] we
[01:39:35] can print all kind of different features
[01:39:38] of course with this technology
[01:39:40] we
[01:39:42] our strength of course is to make lenses
[01:39:44] that are bigger and look like ophthalmic
[01:39:46] lenses our goal is not to make the
[01:39:48] smallest possible lens our goal is
[01:39:50] really to make
[01:39:52] um ophthalmic prescription lenses and
[01:39:55] integrate smart devices into them
[01:39:58] um i you you well i will discuss this
[01:40:02] with him later on late but i i want to
[01:40:05] understand a bit uh you are doing only
[01:40:07] of tamology or are you considering
[01:40:10] perhaps to to open up a new area of
[01:40:13] activities
[01:40:15] we can print any lens well not any lens
[01:40:17] we can print many different types of
[01:40:18] lenses
[01:40:20] and we have customers actually that also
[01:40:22] want to use our technology for example
[01:40:23] for camera lenses and we can absolutely
[01:40:25] do that
[01:40:27] we try to be a little bit selective in
[01:40:29] which things we print because in our
[01:40:31] experience
[01:40:32] um
[01:40:33] every application has a different
[01:40:35] challenge
[01:40:36] and we try we try to be very
[01:40:39] we see that smart we believe smart
[01:40:41] eyewear is going to be a major major
[01:40:43] application of
[01:40:45] of lenses and of photonics if you like
[01:40:47] so therefore we want to be successful in
[01:40:49] smart eyewear but of course we can print
[01:40:52] any type of lens
[01:40:53] however like i said you know we are not
[01:40:56] at the level that we can take on 10
[01:40:58] different projects we're not a mega
[01:41:00] company at this time at this time so we
[01:41:02] want to be successful in smart eyewear
[01:41:04] for now
[01:41:06] even though we sometimes take on little
[01:41:07] side projects before a in the early part
[01:41:10] of the meeting we wanted to address a
[01:41:12] topic we didn't address very well yet
[01:41:14] and it's a topic of testing and in in
[01:41:17] the markets that you are targeting very
[01:41:19] often you have to go to high volume
[01:41:21] production we have in the room somebody
[01:41:23] from the company nts octel
[01:41:25] frank are you with us
[01:41:28] frank ernst yes i'm here yes so we just
[01:41:31] heard that they are targeting they are
[01:41:32] very selective they on the applications
[01:41:34] they are targeting because they have to
[01:41:36] enable high volume production uh what
[01:41:39] you bring to a table and also we do what
[01:41:41] is
[01:41:42] the activities that you do
[01:41:44] for the volume testing so first frank
[01:41:46] and widow
[01:41:48] um
[01:41:50] well we build testers let me maybe
[01:41:54] share my screen
[01:41:56] yes please go ahead
[01:41:59] let me see if i can find it that way
[01:42:03] i like the epic member so who's ready to
[01:42:05] share the screen like
[01:42:07] this no this wasn't prepared widow he
[01:42:09] wasn't expected to talk and now he's
[01:42:10] gonna
[01:42:12] share what they do can you see my screen
[01:42:15] crystal clear go to slideshow mode so
[01:42:16] you can see it even bigger yeah but i'm
[01:42:19] maybe loose then
[01:42:21] did i share the screen
[01:42:25] okay go ahead it's fine yeah so what we
[01:42:28] basically do is
[01:42:30] the meta lenses doughies or anything
[01:42:35] on a wafer
[01:42:37] yeah we can basically test the tester of
[01:42:40] course in details is very complicated in
[01:42:43] basic structure it's actually very
[01:42:45] simple
[01:42:46] so it's an xy stage that
[01:42:48] basically positions every uh
[01:42:51] lens or or doei or whatever
[01:42:54] on the right position for uh for the
[01:42:56] laser this is a
[01:42:58] very specific
[01:42:59] designed laser
[01:43:00] uh
[01:43:01] basically for every specific uh
[01:43:05] meter lens so the wavelength but also
[01:43:07] the beam shape
[01:43:09] collimated not collimated etc is all
[01:43:12] adapted to the specific needs of that
[01:43:15] metastructure from there of course the
[01:43:17] metastructure
[01:43:19] makes its pattern
[01:43:22] if it's a doughy of course multiple
[01:43:24] beams
[01:43:25] we use a projection screen
[01:43:28] to
[01:43:29] basically use it as an integrator make
[01:43:31] an image of it
[01:43:32] and
[01:43:34] process this image according the quality
[01:43:37] of quality requirements of the of the
[01:43:39] customer and then you basically get a uh
[01:43:42] a a good good or not good
[01:43:45] product of course it's a little bit more
[01:43:47] complicated than that but that's
[01:43:49] basically what what we do
[01:43:51] we do this for passive elements like
[01:43:54] here but we actually also do it for
[01:43:56] active elements for instance
[01:43:59] projectors that are in the augmented
[01:44:01] reality cameras they also have these
[01:44:04] these
[01:44:10] number of beams that needs to be tested
[01:44:12] [Music]
[01:44:14] basically individually
[01:44:17] so we also do this for the active
[01:44:18] elements and then of course instead of
[01:44:19] the laser we have an electrical
[01:44:21] connection to to that active element
[01:44:25] so yeah we basically do a lot of these
[01:44:27] these things we have
[01:44:28] yeah
[01:44:30] i think more than 30 of these machines
[01:44:32] out and basically shipping them
[01:44:35] on a kind of a regular basis for
[01:44:38] a lot of big big customers
[01:44:41] and that was great
[01:44:44] because i want to go now to widow
[01:44:46] and with a hoisted current status on the
[01:44:50] volume testing i know you cannot share
[01:44:51] everything i don't expect you to share
[01:44:53] everything with us but is there
[01:44:55] especially an edc you are open to target
[01:44:57] new applications on doing the volume
[01:44:59] testing
[01:45:01] well
[01:45:02] um i should know today
[01:45:05] the smart there are no real smart
[01:45:07] consumer smart glasses on the market
[01:45:09] today i mean everybody's trying and you
[01:45:12] know i don't consider the microsoft
[01:45:14] hololens consumer product since i don't
[01:45:16] see anybody here wearing it so
[01:45:19] i guess there are still some issues
[01:45:22] as you know a lot of these people are
[01:45:24] working on introducing these products to
[01:45:25] market and we all know the big names and
[01:45:28] i expect that towards them next year
[01:45:30] probably the end of next year and the
[01:45:31] year after we'll see the first products
[01:45:33] introduced and then the volume
[01:45:35] manufacturing starts so we're setting up
[01:45:37] production lines for a number of these
[01:45:38] customers
[01:45:40] and we will there also be
[01:45:42] [Music]
[01:45:43] of course quality checking for now we
[01:45:46] test the quality the same way we test
[01:45:47] the quality as in ophthalmic industry
[01:45:50] meaning we checked for optical power we
[01:45:52] lens map
[01:45:53] and currently uh there's a number of
[01:45:55] companies out there that have a
[01:45:56] measurement equipment for that
[01:45:58] i assume that at some point in this
[01:46:00] process there's going to be a need also
[01:46:02] to check whether the integrated wave
[01:46:04] guide still performs as it should
[01:46:06] we have not reached that stage yet but
[01:46:08] i'm sure there's going to be a moment
[01:46:09] where we need to set in line with our
[01:46:12] production lines also wave guide testing
[01:46:14] even though that's not necessarily our
[01:46:15] competence
[01:46:17] all right widow we have one more
[01:46:18] question in the room for you and this
[01:46:19] one you already know is coming from
[01:46:21] harald pierre from cenogen harald what's
[01:46:23] on your mind
[01:46:27] yes
[01:46:28] yes so i was uh wondering whether
[01:46:32] you could print on non-planar services
[01:46:34] as well
[01:46:36] and what are the limitations there
[01:46:38] with respect uh
[01:46:40] for example aspect ratio
[01:46:43] trenches and so on
[01:46:45] how do you kill that
[01:46:46] so first of all yes we can print on
[01:46:48] non-planar services
[01:46:51] in the smart ios space today
[01:46:54] the most demands we get for planar
[01:46:56] surfaces because wave guides typically
[01:46:58] tend to be flat at least quality wave
[01:47:00] guides tend to be flat
[01:47:01] we can print on non-planar surfaces
[01:47:05] where of course we need to um there's
[01:47:08] not really
[01:47:10] um
[01:47:11] a problem in the aspect ratio typically
[01:47:14] those lenses tend to be curved we
[01:47:16] typically do not like to throw the
[01:47:18] droplets
[01:47:19] at too big of a distance because it
[01:47:21] becomes unpredictable
[01:47:24] so
[01:47:25] it depends a little bit on the diameter
[01:47:27] of course of the lens because that of
[01:47:29] course determines how big the
[01:47:31] the flight
[01:47:32] the flight of the droplet is but we can
[01:47:35] print on normal curved surfaces you know
[01:47:39] in regular prescriptions so that's not
[01:47:41] an issue in itself
[01:47:43] um
[01:47:44] the only thing that often we need to
[01:47:46] tune a little bit is if you want very
[01:47:49] sharp
[01:47:50] points or very
[01:47:52] sharp trenches you know with a sharp in
[01:47:55] the trench because of course we use
[01:47:56] droplets so you need to we need to tune
[01:47:59] the process a little bit to achieve the
[01:48:01] right
[01:48:02] pointiness if you like of the structures
[01:48:04] that's something we typically need to
[01:48:07] work on a little bit
[01:48:08] yeah we know there is of course one
[01:48:11] slide that i really need you to see
[01:48:12] because in epic we have a company who is
[01:48:14] developing an entire roadmap to
[01:48:17] add a new technology to the arvr market
[01:48:19] i'm of course talking about inop tech
[01:48:21] this is a clear partnership the two you
[01:48:23] have to work together please do it for
[01:48:24] me draft please show us a slide and see
[01:48:27] how we can bring together this beautiful
[01:48:29] puzzle
[01:48:30] yeah thanks a lot uh jose and
[01:48:33] congratulations to you uh hido um well
[01:48:36] done i i like your technology very much
[01:48:38] and uh maybe in the future we can
[01:48:41] cooperate in certain areas maybe not in
[01:48:43] all areas because we have also um a
[01:48:46] coverage for six diopter and beyond so
[01:48:50] we are talking about really steep um
[01:48:53] lenses and curved lenses like curvature
[01:48:55] six which is a requirement from
[01:48:58] um
[01:48:59] the sports industry and um even military
[01:49:02] etc
[01:49:03] and i know from your colleagues they
[01:49:06] told me that this may be a little bit
[01:49:08] difficult to make steeper curves because
[01:49:10] you're using droplets so i don't know
[01:49:14] let's see i i would like to share
[01:49:15] quickly a slide just to show you what we
[01:49:18] are doing um i already showed these
[01:49:20] glasses you see there's a standard glass
[01:49:23] in front and there's a shutter glass
[01:49:25] inside and we stack them let me quickly
[01:49:28] share the screen then it becomes
[01:49:31] instantly clear
[01:49:34] i put this on
[01:49:36] full screen
[01:49:38] i hope you can see it crystal clear
[01:49:41] this was the initial idea to
[01:49:44] use a very much curved small teeth glass
[01:49:48] this is here from uvex
[01:49:50] famous company
[01:49:52] and we
[01:49:53] thought about how would it be if we
[01:49:56] implement lcd shutters
[01:49:58] and instead of the lcd shutter it could
[01:50:00] be also
[01:50:01] a waveguide for augmented reality it
[01:50:04] doesn't matter so it's in any case a
[01:50:06] flat device
[01:50:08] and our requirement which were given to
[01:50:11] us by the sports industry even by
[01:50:14] military was to say look we need
[01:50:16] peripheral vision of more than 60
[01:50:19] degrees so we are talking about
[01:50:21] a field of view
[01:50:23] greater than
[01:50:24] 120 degrees
[01:50:26] and here in this solidworks um
[01:50:30] diagram we actually calculated that it
[01:50:33] is possible to combine the lcd or the
[01:50:37] augmented reality
[01:50:39] display doesn't matter this is here
[01:50:42] where the mouse is it's a flat device we
[01:50:45] tilted it a little bit like 15 degrees
[01:50:47] so that we can incorporate this flat
[01:50:50] thing into a sexy fashionable roundish
[01:50:54] design and here you can see the outer
[01:50:57] glass and that could be any diopter
[01:51:01] um it could be neutral like plano or
[01:51:04] could be minus plus minus six um diopter
[01:51:08] it doesn't matter and for us it was
[01:51:11] extremely important to address the
[01:51:14] fashion aspect because we really wanted
[01:51:17] to have a as i already said a roundish
[01:51:19] sexy device and um of course there is a
[01:51:23] little gap you can see it here but this
[01:51:25] is only a few millimeters and we can
[01:51:27] seal it so that there is no dust in
[01:51:30] between and this um we call a sandwich
[01:51:34] structure we we can employ even huge
[01:51:37] batteries and it's all light tight light
[01:51:40] tight is another big topic and now this
[01:51:42] is
[01:51:43] our latest design so light tide is
[01:51:46] another thing to ensure the best
[01:51:49] visibility um and and therefore we
[01:51:52] decided to have this um beautiful um
[01:51:55] curved design
[01:51:57] so um my my to to put it in the question
[01:52:00] now um what do you think what is your
[01:52:02] first impression is that something also
[01:52:04] you you might be interested in
[01:52:07] well if i understand correctly ralph
[01:52:09] your wave guide is flat correct
[01:52:12] um yes um they're usually delivered flat
[01:52:15] and also the fastest lcd shutters are
[01:52:18] usually also flat yeah so for us it's no
[01:52:20] problem integrating them in the lens and
[01:52:22] print
[01:52:23] the powers that you need with it
[01:52:29] we can we we print optical powers many
[01:52:32] different types of optical powers we can
[01:52:34] align the optical center because in this
[01:52:36] case i think you'll have a slightly
[01:52:38] known standard optical design because of
[01:52:40] course people will be looking not
[01:52:42] straight through the center center of
[01:52:44] the lens right situation oh yeah we have
[01:52:46] to spoke um mathematics to recalculate
[01:52:49] the diopter if you have a for example uh
[01:52:51] 2d after but you shift the lens 5
[01:52:54] millimeters to the front and it's
[01:52:55] suddenly 1.8 or 1.2 or something so we
[01:52:59] recalculate the values that is correct
[01:53:01] um but we thought maybe i i can put this
[01:53:04] into a question um
[01:53:06] can you ar code your lenses under
[01:53:10] whatever 10 to the minus eight nine bars
[01:53:13] um and and how do you do the anti
[01:53:16] scratch and how do you do the curvature
[01:53:18] six this is
[01:53:19] maybe um where we have different systems
[01:53:22] i don't know i'm just speculating here a
[01:53:25] little bit um
[01:53:27] so so maybe there are two routes here
[01:53:29] right
[01:53:30] well
[01:53:31] okay let me try answering all your
[01:53:33] questions in a row here as many
[01:53:34] questions in your
[01:53:36] statement here so
[01:53:38] yes our lenses can be ar coated we
[01:53:40] cannot print the ar coating because of
[01:53:42] the thickness at the moment we're
[01:53:44] working on it we're not there yet so ar
[01:53:46] coating we use traditional vacuum or
[01:53:48] sputtering solutions and there we go
[01:53:50] thereby we apply air coatings how do we
[01:53:53] apply the anti-scratch coating we can
[01:53:54] either use traditional industry
[01:53:56] processes or we can even print it so we
[01:53:58] can print down to scratch coating so
[01:54:01] typically what we do is we print the
[01:54:02] lens
[01:54:03] we print the anti-scratch coating and
[01:54:05] all the other tins or filters that you
[01:54:07] need we can print those too and then we
[01:54:09] send it off to a vacuum ar coated
[01:54:12] somewhere
[01:54:13] um
[01:54:14] our lenses are very resistant to
[01:54:16] pressure i think it's more question can
[01:54:18] your the device that you put inside
[01:54:20] resist the pressure and of course our
[01:54:23] lens protects the device but i can
[01:54:25] imagine if the force becomes too big you
[01:54:27] might damage the device that's inside
[01:54:29] but our material is perfectly resistant
[01:54:31] to pressure to force all those things so
[01:54:35] yeah i don't see i don't see any major
[01:54:37] issues and yes we can print more than
[01:54:38] plus six diopters
[01:54:40] wow interesting i want to ask a couple
[01:54:43] of final questions to you and to the
[01:54:45] other speakers but before that we though
[01:54:47] there is a company that i want you to
[01:54:49] meet the company is called print optics
[01:54:51] we have a company here niels farbach who
[01:54:53] is offering already services or 3d
[01:54:56] printing of micro optics in europe and i
[01:54:58] think there could be some room for
[01:54:59] cooperation to add your technology to
[01:55:01] these services nils tell us a bit of
[01:55:03] print optics what do you do
[01:55:05] hi uh thank you jose
[01:55:07] um
[01:55:08] yeah well actually
[01:55:11] one of the first speakers uh martin
[01:55:13] herman schweiler we're using his
[01:55:14] machines so we're
[01:55:17] just using nanoscribe machines and
[01:55:19] offering the whole service behind that
[01:55:21] so if you don't want to
[01:55:23] get into all the parameters that are
[01:55:25] needed to actually print really high
[01:55:28] quality
[01:55:29] complex micro optics then we can do that
[01:55:33] we have
[01:55:34] researched this topic for over seven
[01:55:36] years now
[01:55:38] and we have extensive expertise
[01:55:40] especially in highly complex micro
[01:55:43] optics so on a scale from 10 microns up
[01:55:46] to two millimeters
[01:55:47] multi-length systems tilted systems uh
[01:55:51] deeply into the freeform optics
[01:55:55] i've prepared this uh this one slider
[01:55:57] let me just share my screen please show
[01:55:59] it and i want to go to widow and to the
[01:56:01] others to see if there is an interest in
[01:56:04] offering your technology as 3d printing
[01:56:06] manufacturers as a service to companies
[01:56:10] who could actually address more
[01:56:11] customers in the prototyping phase nils
[01:56:14] show us
[01:56:15] uh
[01:56:16] can you see my screen already yes this
[01:56:18] is pd yes go slide show more so you can
[01:56:20] see it bigger
[01:56:21] so i i think you can see it in
[01:56:23] presentation mode now yes you have to
[01:56:24] switch and uh
[01:56:27] yes switch the display and say hey
[01:56:33] okay can you can you see you're sharing
[01:56:34] the wrong screen with us you're sharing
[01:56:36] the other screen so you're going to
[01:56:37] display settings
[01:56:40] let me switch the screens in place
[01:56:42] settings so the other one very good
[01:56:44] so now you should see it
[01:56:46] so yeah what what we actually do um is
[01:56:49] we started the optical design the the
[01:56:51] wave optical simulation if necessary so
[01:56:53] um we actually we incorporate the
[01:56:57] advantages and the possibilities of 3d
[01:56:59] printing our optics already in the
[01:57:01] design because there is some
[01:57:03] some specs the typical optic designer
[01:57:05] would never even think of in designing
[01:57:08] their optics and we already incorporate
[01:57:10] that into our design then we have the
[01:57:12] structural design and there goes a lot
[01:57:15] into that because we have developed some
[01:57:17] steps for post processing like
[01:57:19] we can get apertures and mirrors and
[01:57:22] stuff like that into the systems at as
[01:57:25] far in the sub millimeter
[01:57:27] scale
[01:57:29] or for example the system you see on the
[01:57:31] bottom right
[01:57:32] that's just not possible to manufacture
[01:57:35] in any other way
[01:57:37] so
[01:57:39] looking at the previous discussion i'm
[01:57:41] also very much team polymer
[01:57:44] because uh just the degrees of freedom
[01:57:47] we have and the little shrinkage that's
[01:57:48] just awesome and uh yeah we we can we
[01:57:52] can
[01:57:53] offer the whole process from start to
[01:57:55] finish we can measure the optics and
[01:57:57] supply you with for example
[01:57:59] optics directly on chips on fibers on
[01:58:02] just glass substrates on the wafers all
[01:58:04] that so that's what we do and to answer
[01:58:08] the typical two questions in this round
[01:58:10] what we can do for you is
[01:58:13] we can take your ideas and make real
[01:58:16] systems out of your ideas we just need
[01:58:18] the specs you want to have and we do all
[01:58:20] the rest
[01:58:21] and what you can do for us we are
[01:58:24] actively looking for partners especially
[01:58:26] in medical technology and the optical
[01:58:28] chip communication fiber communication
[01:58:31] technologies to develop cool new
[01:58:33] products and get our technology into
[01:58:36] your product roadmap in the early stages
[01:58:40] and i think we could help each other out
[01:58:42] in in pretty cool ways
[01:58:44] you are already having a successful
[01:58:45] collaboration with nanoscribe i would
[01:58:47] really like to see there is a potential
[01:58:48] cooperation with others but we do i want
[01:58:51] you to discuss this of course not in
[01:58:52] public we have another company in the
[01:58:54] room that is the first time they come to
[01:58:56] an epic meeting and i would like to give
[01:58:58] them the last word of the meeting i'm
[01:59:00] obviously talking about the company that
[01:59:02] is in the end user side buckler bryce
[01:59:05] touring kane as a spectator he wanted to
[01:59:07] learn a listing about 3d printed optics
[01:59:10] price we've been talking about 3d
[01:59:11] printed optics for two hours as an end
[01:59:13] user in the process industry
[01:59:16] what is your take
[01:59:18] maybe you have some questions suggest
[01:59:20] your room for cooperation with any of
[01:59:21] the participants today
[01:59:24] good afternoon thank you for let me talk
[01:59:27] yeah i was more joining this meeting to
[01:59:30] for curiosity at first um
[01:59:32] we are mostly interesting into
[01:59:35] the
[01:59:36] uh kind of lighting application and
[01:59:38] freeform optics in lighting applications
[01:59:41] and so relatively large optics
[01:59:44] and
[01:59:45] so and we are not like large volume
[01:59:48] manufacturing companies so we would like
[01:59:51] the the 3d printing aspect was is
[01:59:54] interesting for us in terms of
[01:59:57] rapid prototyping or uh
[01:59:59] eventually illuminations instead of
[02:00:02] going to
[02:00:03] have a tool made for molded optics and
[02:00:06] so that's something i was quite
[02:00:08] interesting to see if they were already
[02:00:10] technology available for for this type
[02:00:12] of hot speed prototyping for
[02:00:14] illumination application mostly bryce
[02:00:17] thank you very much for being here and
[02:00:18] it is five o'clock so you want to go to
[02:00:20] widow for the final comment uh with as
[02:00:23] you can see in epic we have the entire
[02:00:24] supply chain to add further
[02:00:26] functionality for looks excel
[02:00:28] illuminate us tell us
[02:00:30] what is the next big thing coming in
[02:00:34] looks excel
[02:00:35] the next what the next
[02:00:37] the next big thing the next the next
[02:00:39] growth heading
[02:00:40] well um
[02:00:42] [Music]
[02:00:43] for now what we want to do is we want to
[02:00:45] help our customers bring smart
[02:00:47] prescriptions smart eyewear to market
[02:00:50] and that is what we're focused on very
[02:00:52] much and we think
[02:00:54] we think smart eyewear is going to
[02:00:56] change the world
[02:00:58] we think the whole
[02:00:59] everybody now has a phone in this pocket
[02:01:01] i think you're alpha we're on the same
[02:01:03] page
[02:01:05] so we think that everybody who has a
[02:01:07] phone in his pockets will be wearing
[02:01:08] smart glasses because what's the point
[02:01:10] of walking around with the phone in your
[02:01:12] hand if you have a glass in your head
[02:01:14] so we think smart eyewear is going to
[02:01:16] change the world exactly i see everybody
[02:01:18] agrees with me here
[02:01:19] and
[02:01:20] therefore we need to add prescription we
[02:01:22] need to make them look
[02:01:24] make comfortable thin smart light and
[02:01:27] most importantly fashionable and that's
[02:01:29] where
[02:01:30] we want to help our customers do that
[02:01:32] and we know that there's a lot of
[02:01:34] interest from all the big tech companies
[02:01:36] in this space and we know that pretty
[02:01:38] much every big tech company has this
[02:01:42] vision
[02:01:43] and so look at for example
[02:01:45] mata for example we changed their name
[02:01:47] from facebook to meta to make to make
[02:01:49] clear what their objective is and
[02:01:51] they're not the only ones we think smart
[02:01:54] eyewear is going to be the biggest
[02:01:55] change
[02:01:56] in computing that we have seen in the
[02:01:59] past since the internet came along
[02:02:00] probably i should say
[02:02:03] and uh so therefore we want to be a part
[02:02:05] of it we're going to help our customers
[02:02:06] do that and that's going to be a major
[02:02:07] thing and it will change the photonics
[02:02:09] industry we started meeting at 3 o'clock
[02:02:11] we finished at 5 o'clock we start to
[02:02:13] finish some time we started with micro
[02:02:14] optics we finished with large chop this
[02:02:16] quad a fantastic couple of hours i hope
[02:02:19] you had as much fun and also as much
[02:02:22] lead generation as i did until the next
[02:02:24] time thank you very much this was joseph
[02:02:26] on behalf of the european photonic
[02:02:28] industry consortium
[02:02:30] and that concludes the public part of
[02:02:33] today's meeting if you are in our zoom
[02:02:35] room or informal private discussion is
[02:02:39] about to start i call it virtual drinks
[02:02:42] with friends and we all know follow-up
[02:02:46] is important but for now if you are
[02:02:48] watching on youtube that's where we
[02:02:50] leave you for today thanks to the epic
[02:02:53] production crew and all the sponsors for
[02:02:55] making today's event possible more
[02:02:57] details about upcoming meetings at our
[02:02:59] website and if you want to get in touch
[02:03:02] with any of the participants all you
[02:03:04] have to do is contact me directly and i
[02:03:06] will make sure you get introduced it is
[02:03:09] all about connections thanks for being a
[02:03:12] pick