# EPIC Online Technology Meeting on 3D Printed Optics: State of the Art and Applications

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft_FH7BRnu0

[00:00] Three o'clock here in the Netherlands in North Pike next to the sea.
[00:04] And I must say that today we're addressing one of the hottest topics in the story of photonics.
[00:09] Where we are talking about 3D printed optics for the tens of people in the zoo room.
[00:16] The hundreds, the 120 companies who registered and gave input for the meeting today.
[00:20] And the thousands of people who are joining this meeting from YouTube.
[00:25] And they're gonna watch now or later at any time.
[00:29] Before we start the meeting, I have to tell you one thing.
[00:31] I've been traveling again like crazy.
[00:33] I've been talking to many companies, many epic members.
[00:39] The scarcest material in your industry is not titanium, platinum, gold, or tungsten.
[00:45] The scarcest material in your industry is people, is talent.
[00:48] So I hope that all of you are either employees that are happy at their job or employers that provide a safe and happy place for people to work.
[00:59] Because this is an employee's market if
[01:02] any of you is not happy with their position find another job.
[01:03] this industry is desperate for having you and i'm desperate to start a meeting today.
[01:11] ladies and gentlemen.
[01:12] 3d printed optics.
[01:16] asml is the biggest success story in europe in equipment manufacturing for semiconductor production.
[01:25] if you want to see how they took the market away from canon and nikon i recommend watching this video.
[01:31] but today i want to tell you about what i believe could be the next success story in manufacturing equipment.
[01:39] and that is 3d printing of optics.
[01:43] creativity is indeed the engine behind technological evolution.
[01:46] wise words from fenton princio nicoleta casanova.
[01:53] the trend in smart devices is smaller, cheaper with an exponential increase in complexity.
[02:00] it's done by integrating
[02:02] fluidics optics mechanics and electronics into a smaller volume.
[02:08] but there is a paradox to produce small things you need large high maintenance infrastructure.
[02:14] up to 95 percent of the energy budget of a clean room is simply to control the air that's incredible or maybe not.
[02:23] on monday november 15th we addressed a booming field of 3d printed optics and it really is booming now.
[02:31] nanoscribe was acquired by ceiling a pharmaceutical bioprinting company.
[02:36] multiphoton optics was acquired by heidelberg instruments in a smart move having both additive and substructive manufacturing for micro printing of optics under the same roof.
[02:49] vanguard photonics thanks the collaboration with pikontek and the pixa pilot line moved the technology forward for the packaging of photonic integrity circuits and even newcomers such as the italian app nano.
[03:04] have attracted major interest.
[03:07] and when it comes to optamic optics,
[03:10] another huge breakthrough happened in europe in 2021.
[03:15] dutch company lux excel started production of 3d printed prescription glasses.
[03:21] today they are the only company in the world that can't do this.
[03:26] but in the same way that esml success story was built around cooperation with strong partners think about the twin scan the immersion process or the early move to extreme uv.
[03:39] these companies in 3d printing optics also need powerful partners to enable the next generation.
[03:44] and here are some of my thoughts.
[03:48] and in the two photon polymerization process there are two secret ingredients in the recipe.
[03:53] the polymer material and the femtosecond laser used for locally scribing the structures.
[03:59] tunability of the pulse length and accurate bin shaping having always items in their.
[04:06] santa claus christmas list.
[04:09] and for the 3d printed optics by looks.
[04:11] excel part of their success is because of the smart integration with electronics.
[04:17] look at these electrochromic lenses turning your glasses into sunglasses instantly or the integration with augmented reality enabled optical waveguides so you can have for the first time prescription glasses with augmented reality.
[04:35] partners are essential for success and when industry needs partnerships is when epic really is epic.
[04:43] do you need faster turnaround time, regular production or prototyping of optics or micro optics?
[04:48] do you want to propose your photonic technology as enabler of this success?
[04:53] do you want to integrate your electronics or fluidics with the next generation optical elements or do you want to invest in the next big thing in manufacturing?
[05:06] equipment do not forget to register online at the epic website.
[05:11] i'll be watching out for you on 15 november at 3 p.m.
[05:16] ag it is 15 november at 3 p.m.
[05:18] you know many people are asking me are you acting do you really feel that excited about optics and microptics.
[05:25] i'm a really really really bad actor.
[05:27] i think i'm a better scientist and actor and i no longer need her but i'm a really bad actor.
[05:31] do not hire me for a position at a movie company.
[05:33] today we are talking to 750 epic members for the next generation micro optics from equipment to manufacturing.
[05:41] thank you very much all of you and what i do with all of you and the rest of the epic stuff 15 people.
[05:49] we welcome elyseenda our new marketing manager.
[05:51] 50 people dedicating their life to this industry is to know each of you individually.
[05:56] and many of you already know epic organized events provide access to your network help you raise capital.
[06:02] we have the biggest question to find you in photonics job symphony.com.
[06:04] and thanks to our market strategist trey
[06:06] Sivany, we provide you with exclusive market data.
[06:08] Today, we are at the almost by the end already of season five.
[06:11] Time flies.
[06:13] I can already tell you as a teacher, season six will be announced later on this week.
[06:15] But today, we are talking about 3D printed optics.
[06:20] Have a special attention to the meeting on the 6th of December, medical device manufacturing in Europe.
[06:22] That's going to be fantastic.
[06:24] But also for those of you who are active in quantum technologies on the 1st of December, we talk about large scale qubit generation with Psi Quantum and companies alike in the room.
[06:27] Do not miss that one.
[06:29] Today, I would like to first of all acknowledge the sponsorship of two sponsors today.
[06:31] First, coming all the way from Finland, Modulighty.
[06:33] You're looking for a supplier of semiconductor lasers, Modulight provides growth packaging and only way to provide finance solution to the end users.
[06:35] Success story in Finland and in Europe.
[06:37] And second, Shoes Micro Optics, all the way from New Shuttle.
[06:40] They provide advanced.
[07:08] micro optics manufacturing free form optics at wafer scale success stories.
[07:13] european micro optics revolution i would like to also acknowledge your cooperation or strategic cooperation with uk metamaterials network.
[07:22] at last but definitely at least our media panel electro optics thank you very much for promoting everything that we do at epic.
[07:30] today i'm going to be co-chairing this event with our experience optics manufacturing dr panos vergiris and we have a fantastic agenda look at that agenda director technologist a ceo cso co-founder.
[07:43] with we talk to the companies at the highest possible level because this meeting is about cooperation.
[07:49] these people come to the meeting to find potential cooperation with the rest of you today.
[07:55] 120 companies registered for this meeting 120 companies and panels and i took the time to separate them into different parts of the supply chain so we have the entire supply chain here.
[08:08] system integrators equipment manufacturer laser developers process suppliers materials everybody is here.
[08:15] please make sure that on the next two hours on the next two hours you scout at least one or two business leads that will make this meeting helpful and for those of you who are watching this meeting in youtube.
[08:27] i have to say that if you want to get in touch with any of the participants today what you have to do is send me an email jose.epicdustassa.com and i will make sure that you are formally introduced.
[08:37] and this of course also valid for people with me in the zoom room 120 companies registered for the meeting today if you want to get in touch with any of them please contact me and i will make the introduction but most important definitely most important if you are here at the meeting you you're here meeting to find new friends we have an internal chat so use it abuse it i want to see you typing i want you to get in touch with each other on the next two hours we are here not only to find out our technology trends but to answer the epic question what can you do for the others and what can they do for you and
[09:09] to start the meeting i want to welcome to the room a new friend of mine.
[09:13] i talked to her already for a few months because she wants to bring the entire industry together in the uk for the materials manufacturing and she's engaging end users and i said to ania well we had the same job you have to come here tell us what to do and bring one of your end users to see if what are their met needs.
[09:30] i welcome to the room for the first time in many many many times when we talk about metamaterials he's going to be honest with us anya rudin director of the uk metamaterials network all the way from the uk anya good afternoon tell us what you do and introduce the end user that came with you to talk about 3d printed optics.
[09:53] thank you very much for having us today.
[09:56] i am so delighted to be here it's a huge pleasure.
[09:58] um i just noticed that one of my technical speakers actually did not receive the invitation to this meeting so um i'm all on my own um let's see how that goes.
[10:09] um
[10:10] right let me share my screen with you
[10:12] just to introduce meta materials to you
[10:15] um
[10:19] there we go
[10:23] hold on
[10:24] no
[10:25] oh i'm so sorry technology issues in the background
[10:28] i'm sure you can manage oh
[10:31] it'll be all right
[10:32] so
[10:33] well let's have another obsess share screen press it
[10:39] i think you are in business already
[10:41] yes perfect there we go okay marvelous
[10:43] so um the uk meta materials network is a very new initiative
[10:46] we only started in march this year
[10:48] and i don't know whether any one of you is familiar with the concept of metamaterials yet
[10:52] um but meta materials um are basically structured materials
[10:57] that are technology enablers
[11:00] so they are made from metals or plastics and they derive their specific functionality um to control waves energy and information through the way they are arranged so
[11:11] their shape their geometry the size.
[11:13] orientation their density.
[11:16] why they are important.
[11:18] you may or may not be interested in these figures and obviously you know.
[11:21] with all market reports take them and you're sold.
[11:24] but the meta materials market is due to increase massively in the next five years.
[11:28] so um there is a huge huge opportunity here to utilize this these technologies enablers to make for example um antennas lighter smaller faster.
[11:41] to help with holographic displays this place um.
[11:45] to make materials very very strong for um use in harsh environments.
[11:52] to utilize noise measurement here's for noise control and high resolution imaging.
[11:57] so they have huge application potential um and we decided in the uk that we need to have a network that brings together academia and industry to really um build the bridge to get the metro.
[12:12] materials out of the labs into the technology applications.
[12:17] um, so what we would like to do in this forum is we just raise awareness that metric hairs are out there.
[12:25] If you're not already aware of them, it probably may be an idea to talk to us or talk to metamaterials experts in your vicinity and understand how they may be able to help you with your scientific challenges.
[12:37] So let me just check very quickly if um Quang is here.
[12:44] Um, Narendra, have you seen Quang by any chance?
[12:49] or technical expert of electronic assistance at the MBDA, the market leader in in missiles.
[12:57] And he's gonna join the meeting later because they have some challenges in their supply chain that they want to exchange with the rest of the supply chain.
[13:06] But before we do that, we don't we introduce the topic today.
[13:08] We are talking about micro optics and larger optics manufacturing in 3D and we
[13:15] Have some of the top companies in the world that actually are in Europe.
[13:17] With that topic, we want to find potential cooperations for them.
[13:22] So let's start, and to start, I want to go to the beautiful Karlsruhe.
[13:27] I want to go to Carl to meet the CEO and founder of the company.
[13:33] I already talked to them about them a lot.
[13:35] The company Nanda Scribe, let's meet Martin Hermansviller.
[13:37] Martin, thank you very much for being with us this beautiful afternoon.
[13:42] Congratulations on all the amazing business negotiations in the last months by Nanoscribe.
[13:46] I'm looking forward to June, you know why Martin?
[13:51] Because on June, organizer Epic meeting on advanced optics and Nanoscribe finally present everybody there.
[13:55] But first, we want to hear from you, Martin.
[13:57] The floor and the attention of everyone today, we are global goes to you.
[14:01] Thanks a lot Jose for for having me.
[14:05] It's really a pleasure to be with you.
[14:08] So let me just give a brief introduction into Nanoscribe, or say you mentioned it.
[14:16] before nanoscribe is now meanwhile a baiko company we have been acquired in june of this year.
[14:23] belong to a company to a group with more than one thousand employees.
[14:25] nanoscribe itself has about 80 employees we invest a lot into research and development.
[14:31] we have more than 3 000 system operators outside distributed over more than 30 countries and meanwhile we're in the 14th year of operation with many many publications done with our by our marvelous customers.
[14:49] so i invite you to have a look at our key enabling technology two-photo polymerization.
[14:53] we have two white papers that go into the details thereof both of them are more than 20 pages long so i will keep it short here but i just want to make one point maybe um something that is unique with our products is the ability to do two-photon grayscale lithography not just two photon polymerization but two photon grayscale the talk lithography and
[15:16] that's based on the fact that you can tune the the laser focus and the size by increasing or decreasing the laser intensity and the laser focus and if you do that electronically well controlled you can do this on a hundred nanometer grid as we do it and this results in the ability to to form for instance a curved surface with just one slice and this reduces the print time excessively and it results in optically smooth surfaces you can for instance get rid of concentric rings that you typically find when you no matter how fine you slice an object if you have a hemisphere in the center zone which is the most important zone of a micro optic you will always find concentric rings but two photon grey skeletography you can completely get rid of it and this results in baby smooth surfaces so subtenan with the surface.
[16:20] So um there are two topics that I would like to talk about today.
[16:22] So mastering of micro optics is of specific importance.
[16:25] It's not just 3D printed micro optics, but also two and a half dimensional surfaces.
[16:34] So the design freedom translates into superior performance because of a high design freedom.
[16:41] Like higher filling factor, sharp edges, smooth surfaces, and at the same time you can also realize hybrid optics, diffractive and refractive combined.
[16:50] And not only can you do this on wafer level, but you can also do it well aligned on fiber tips, on chips, or on the wafer.
[16:59] And because it's so easy to use and in most cases you do not even use spin coating and other complex processes, you can realize uh prototypes easily, iterate fast, and the few process steps involved result in high quality of your structures, high yields, and great performance.
[17:22] So I have brought three examples with me.
[17:25] So on the left side you see such an arrangement of a hybrid optics.
[17:27] It's a hemisphere and on top of it you see fine ripples that diffract the light.
[17:34] Or you can even go beyond the economical compromise of diffractive optical elements where you typically have only eight diffractive optical element levels.
[17:44] In our case due to the superior design freedom you can go to more than four thousand levels.
[17:49] This then results in quasi continuous profiles.
[17:56] Or you can even implement a certain designer angle in order to get rid of the zeroed order of diffraction.
[18:02] So diffractive optical elements which are blazed and our process is also fully compatible with standard manufacturing processes.
[18:15] So if you think about mass fabrication of structures you can either create a nickel shim or you take
[18:23] a soft mode based from a polymer master.
[18:26] and then you do either injection molding.
[18:28] or hot embossing or you do nano imprint lithography.
[18:32] and as one exemplified uh structure you see here an eight-inch wafer.
[18:38] this has been done in collaboration with evg as collaboration partner.
[18:44] this is based on nano imprint replication.
[18:49] the second aspect is not just printing on wafer level but printing optical devices at the point of destination.
[18:57] for photonic packaging and here nanoscribe provides the two major routes.
[19:04] one is to put to print optomechanical aligners so that you can easily click for instance a fiber optic to a certain mechanical alignment element.
[19:14] or you go the optical route and you print the optics at the edge of a chip or at the facet of a fiber or onto.
[19:24] an optical chip at the top surface.
[19:28] this is how it looks like if you take our quantum x system the two photon polymerization masterless lithography system and 3d printer in one unit.
[19:37] and you can see in the camera directly where you want to print and the alignment allows you to precisely anchor your structure with plus minus 100 nanometer precision to the point of destination.
[19:51] so no complex gluing it's just printing at the point of destination.
[19:55] one example is from customers from the university of munster.
[20:01] the world from pernice group they for instance print things like complex taper structures.
[20:09] um in order to couple light into this waveguide then they have a total internal reflection that reflects the light out of plane and then the focusing um hemisphere with eight micrometer uh radius.
[20:24] and that focuses the light into an
[20:26] optical fiber or vice versa
[20:29] this is very broadband it spans uh the
[20:32] complete visible range at low losses
[20:35] or you can print
[20:36] on fibers and fiber arrays here you see
[20:39] a v-groove and our system allows for
[20:42] automatic recognition of the fiber core
[20:45] alignment and printing thereof in order
[20:47] to print hemi
[20:49] micro optics which relax the mode field
[20:52] diameter
[20:54] so to summarize
[20:56] with nanoscribe you have the ability to
[20:58] do
[20:59] two photon polymerization additive micro
[21:01] fabrication for micro optics
[21:04] which results in superior performance
[21:07] the ability to rapidly prototype
[21:09] to do this in a robust and cost saving
[21:12] manner and it's also mass scalable by
[21:14] nano imprint lithography and injection
[21:16] molding
[21:17] and in photonic packaging
[21:20] you can achieve good coupling
[21:22] efficiencies on surface and edges
[21:25] that
[21:26] relax alignment tolerances enabled by
[21:29] larger mode field diameters result in
[21:31] low losses and a high coupling
[21:34] reliability
[21:36] and it's also versatile our products
[21:38] allow to print not just on
[21:41] wafers but on on fiber tips and on chips
[21:44] and it's also very time saving if you
[21:47] think about
[21:49] the alignment task and the gluing task
[21:51] that
[21:52] you can completely skip
[21:54] so it's a very versatile technology and
[21:57] if you wish to evaluate our technology
[22:01] please just send us an email inquire us
[22:04] for
[22:05] with your design ideas for feasibility
[22:07] thank you very much
[22:09] thank you very much martin for a great
[22:10] presentation i really have to say that i
[22:13] really look up to you and to your team
[22:15] for the amazing things that you are
[22:17] doing michael tilly you are watching
[22:19] hello you are one of the people i look
[22:20] up to the most in this industry it is
[22:22] amazing what you are doing and i want to
[22:25] i want to bring epic members in contact
[22:28] with you to it can help you doing even
[22:30] better so you're prepared for this the
[22:33] epic question what are your new
[22:35] challenges what can you do for the
[22:36] others and what can the others do for
[22:38] you
[22:40] so what we can
[22:41] do for others is to do a feasibility
[22:43] study so whenever you have something you
[22:46] would like to evaluate please come to us
[22:48] do not hesitate
[22:49] um
[22:50] if you have specific photo resist if you
[22:53] are a photoresist manufacturer please
[22:56] consult us we would love to to test your
[22:58] materials
[23:00] what we can do for you is
[23:03] we can
[23:05] print micro optic masters for innovative
[23:08] replication techniques so if you have
[23:10] anything that you would like to test we
[23:12] printed for you and you can test the
[23:14] replication or if you want
[23:18] we can print complex micro optics to
[23:20] qualify maybe your measurement your
[23:23] techniques that you have for meteorology
[23:25] instrumentation for instance
[23:28] we have many people in the room that i
[23:29] want you to meet but i'm gonna start up
[23:32] there i'm gonna start on the space
[23:34] market we have one of the companies who
[23:35] making a difference in the industry for
[23:37] the spec technologies we have in the
[23:39] room le ontios representing leo space
[23:43] photonics i wanted him to be here
[23:45] because in the previous meetings we'll
[23:46] talk about optics for free for fso for
[23:49] free space optical communication and
[23:51] he's one of the key companies in the
[23:53] nano satellite business bringing that
[23:55] industry forward today leontes we are
[23:57] talking about 3d printed optics what is
[24:00] your interest in that particular topic
[24:02] and what challenges do you have for your
[24:04] space applications okay so thanks jose
[24:08] for giving me the opportunity so
[24:10] basically for for space we are looking
[24:12] into
[24:12] on our end space transceivers for
[24:15] for satellite optical communications
[24:17] either these are fso or even
[24:20] inside the satellite
[24:22] now the challenge
[24:24] um
[24:25] here is to have you know for space you
[24:27] need to have very simple builds
[24:29] and very robust build modules so the 3d
[24:32] printed objects i think it is in the in
[24:33] the right direction because you can have
[24:35] you can eliminate
[24:37] a lot of interfaces inside the module
[24:38] and make it more robust
[24:40] at the same time the challenge would be
[24:42] and this is to be to be presented to the
[24:45] to the vendors here
[24:47] um the wide
[24:49] temperature operating range so the
[24:52] modules are going to be cycled over
[24:53] minus 40 to plus 85 degrees c for
[24:55] example so the robustness of these three
[24:58] dependent optics in such a wide range of
[25:00] temperature is is one thing and the
[25:02] other important thing is that for space
[25:03] you know there's no air
[25:05] and there's a lot of uh outgassing due
[25:07] to the vacuum um
[25:09] to the vacuum environment so
[25:12] the robustness
[25:13] against the viking operation is is
[25:15] another thing to be to be considered in
[25:17] order to have at the end a space
[25:19] compatible or
[25:20] a process for me for making 3d printed
[25:23] objects for for space photonics
[25:25] martin when it comes to space for me
[25:27] idea ideally was the first application
[25:30] that came to mind when i met your
[25:31] company
[25:33] 12 years ago oh my god we are old when i
[25:35] made your company the first time that
[25:37] was the first application i asked about
[25:38] what is the current state of the art for
[25:41] 3d printed optics with two photon
[25:43] polymerization in space applications
[25:47] space applications i think is still a
[25:49] relatively new topic to to photon
[25:51] polymerization but it's there's a
[25:53] growing demand that is what we sense so
[25:56] space applications also in terms of
[25:58] microfluidics we we send a lot of
[26:00] requests to that so um the materials
[26:04] since they do photopolymerize very
[26:07] efficiently
[26:08] they do not outgas a lot so therefore um
[26:11] i can imagine that even for space
[26:13] application we can qualify two two
[26:16] photon polymerase polymerized optics for
[26:19] space
[26:20] we have a comment right now coming all
[26:23] the way from beautiful buildings in
[26:25] lithuania leontios listen to this
[26:28] girdas thank you very much being with us
[26:31] what's on your mind
[26:34] laser research center at billions
[26:36] university
[26:37] you're asking me
[26:38] yes yes okay so there is a way how to
[26:41] make these 3d printed optics inorganic
[26:44] and this makes them much more
[26:47] transparent resilient
[26:49] and
[26:50] well resilient to everything to high and
[26:52] low temperatures to pressure variations
[26:55] uh to acidic or whatever environment
[26:58] also for mechanical
[27:01] effects so just like glass
[27:04] 3d printed at microscale with all the
[27:07] possibilities uh
[27:10] to integrate or to print on chip just
[27:12] like
[27:13] martin has shown us so
[27:14] the same
[27:16] the same devices can be converted from
[27:18] polymer to uh
[27:20] in organic substance glass glasses like
[27:23] uh materials as well as ceramics and
[27:26] even uh
[27:27] crystalline inorganics
[27:29] so i think it's enhancing and
[27:31] specifically targeting these space
[27:33] applications
[27:35] and and of course the method this is
[27:36] compatible with all the 3d printing
[27:38] machines as spartan already showed so
[27:41] it's widespread
[27:46] sorry for a question by leontios
[27:49] mangildas how can we access this
[27:51] inorganic free-form micro-optics is
[27:53] there a way that we can test this
[27:55] already for the nanosatellites work or
[27:58] level space photonics
[28:00] uh for the material you should ask
[28:01] another participant who's online here so
[28:04] dr maria for sorry for
[28:07] so at least one exam example module uh
[28:10] material as a standard one works with it
[28:13] fine
[28:14] but
[28:15] at the same time it's not limited to
[28:17] only
[28:18] this specific material if you want some
[28:20] um
[28:21] tunable refractive index or whatsoever
[28:24] so there is a space for for research as
[28:26] well
[28:27] so this meetings are magical martin we
[28:30] have maria farsari all the way from
[28:32] greece from fort in the room maria
[28:35] professor for sorry good afternoon we
[28:37] are really excited now they started
[28:39] meeting really strong today martin how
[28:41] can we access this inorganic micro
[28:44] optics to put them in space applications
[28:47] okay so this is um
[28:50] this is not as straightforward as it
[28:53] sounds because you cannot directly print
[28:57] inorganic materials but
[28:59] there is a process so through pyrolysis
[29:03] where you can take
[29:04] organic inorganic hybrids and you can
[29:08] print them and then make them in organic
[29:10] via this process so um
[29:13] we can
[29:16] we have developed materials that burn
[29:18] very nicely
[29:21] as it sounds paradox but anyway so
[29:24] and mangudas has done some very nice
[29:26] work i think you're showing it all right
[29:28] on the screen on 3d printing of
[29:32] this micro micro optical components
[29:36] i i want to address this topic later but
[29:38] what a way to start the meeting martin
[29:40] really wants to comment on this martin
[29:42] what's on your mind i have two remarks
[29:44] um first of all
[29:46] we have just launched a material in july
[29:48] this year together with the company
[29:49] glaselmere
[29:51] it's a two photon polymerization
[29:53] material that has glass
[29:57] nanoparticles inside and after a sinter
[29:59] process you get pure fuel silica that's
[30:02] one thing the other thing is you can
[30:05] also take polymers and apply by atomic
[30:08] layer deposition for instance thin
[30:09] coatings and these thin coatings help to
[30:12] prevent the gassing outgassing of the
[30:14] structure and also they can be made on
[30:17] anti-reflective so if you want to have
[30:19] high performance optics in space i think
[30:22] atomic layer deposition might be
[30:24] interesting to look at
[30:26] we actually have in the room doroth this
[30:28] meeting is getting great we have
[30:30] dorothea helmer coming from the company
[30:32] glass summer you're looking for few
[30:33] silica 3d printed material like grass
[30:36] summer is really the key company for you
[30:38] to address dorothya you just were
[30:40] acknowledged by martin what did you do
[30:42] in this topic and telescope room for
[30:44] cooperation would you like to to start
[30:46] today
[30:47] yeah i completely thank you jose totally
[30:49] excited to be here and i totally agree
[30:51] that
[30:52] polymers in space is not ideal so glass
[30:54] is a really good material and after the
[30:56] calculation process you can be
[30:58] absolutely sure there will be nothing
[30:59] leaking out of the material and like
[31:02] martin said we have a really great
[31:04] explorer kit with nanoscribe so if you
[31:06] really want to print some nano optics on
[31:09] your nanoscribe machine then definitely
[31:11] you can buy the kit already at
[31:13] nanoscribe and at glassomer if you are
[31:16] interested we also sell some more
[31:19] exploratory kits for larger prints so if
[31:21] you have a regular printer maybe you
[31:23] don't have a nanoscribe and you want to
[31:25] print some objects on your regular
[31:27] printer then you can contact us and we
[31:29] can definitely sell you a nice composite
[31:32] material that you can get a really high
[31:33] purity fused silica optics from
[31:35] and you're looking for glass shaping at
[31:38] room temperature class summer is the
[31:40] company that you have to go to talk to
[31:42] andros you're doing a fantastic job i'm
[31:44] coming to you later but martin we have a
[31:45] lot of questions for you the first one
[31:48] is coming from one of the offer key
[31:49] consultants in the epic network duval of
[31:52] fear is helping a lot of companies
[31:54] developing their supply chain jubal has
[31:56] a question for you martin jubal what's
[31:59] on your mind
[32:03] i don't think we can hear you balofield
[32:05] so i'm gonna read this question what are
[32:08] the highest refractive index materials
[32:10] that you offer today
[32:12] at the moment it's uh 1.62 so we have uh
[32:16] well characterize these materials and
[32:18] provide
[32:19] all the n k values uh throughout the
[32:21] visible and in the near infrared um for
[32:24] all materials so 1.62 is at the moment
[32:27] the limit but
[32:28] that can be overcome in the future
[32:31] the the
[32:32] the next question in the room is coming
[32:34] from the company mbda kung mang thank
[32:38] you very much for being with us today
[32:40] you are one of foreign users tell us
[32:42] what's on your mind
[32:47] kron i think you are muted yes
[32:51] hi sorry i hope you can hear me um no
[32:54] the question i had was what uh what wave
[32:56] band are your optics designed for it
[32:58] sounds like you're looking at working in
[32:59] the visible and the infrared can you go
[33:01] out to the mid infrared and long wave in
[33:03] for it
[33:06] maybe dort here knows better how
[33:10] few silica performs in the
[33:13] in the longer wavelength regime i'd say
[33:15] that probably the polymers will not be
[33:17] good for for the infrared and
[33:20] but maybe
[33:21] you know better
[33:23] so around the 2.7 micron where the
[33:26] weight group usually absorb a lot
[33:29] we have very low
[33:33] values because we do vacuum sintering so
[33:36] we don't have a lot of oh groups left
[33:38] there so and in the longer uv is it's
[33:40] the same as regular uh longer infrared
[33:42] it's like the same as the regular um
[33:45] silica glass so at some point in the uv
[33:47] you have a cut-off and at some point in
[33:49] the ir you will also have a cut-off
[33:50] definitely
[33:53] the the next question in the room more
[33:54] than a question is perhaps a challenge
[33:56] or room for cooperation is coming all
[33:58] the way from the united states of
[34:00] america and this company is nanobox a
[34:02] person who's meant a lot to the online
[34:04] technology meetings is james field james
[34:07] good morning for you good afternoon for
[34:08] me what's on your mind
[34:11] good morning jose we're well caffeinated
[34:13] here in the northwest
[34:15] um one of the questions i have is we're
[34:18] trying to scale our high and low index
[34:21] monomers
[34:22] for
[34:23] gradient refractive index printing they
[34:26] have to be incredible but we're trying
[34:28] to get out of the
[34:30] small batch mode so we're looking for
[34:32] partners
[34:33] to help us scale our production um as we
[34:36] get to uh
[34:38] volume levels we have a customer that
[34:40] needs to make uh 24 million optics in a
[34:44] year
[34:45] and to do that we have to have those
[34:48] materials scale
[34:50] so
[34:51] anyone who is uh
[34:54] interested in talking to us about
[34:56] scaling our monomers please call
[34:58] so you're looking for a partner to scare
[35:00] your monomers we are talking about high
[35:02] and low refractive index monoliths
[35:05] monomers
[35:06] for 3d inject printing
[35:09] yes
[35:10] so they have to have the viscosity to
[35:12] inkjet print um also they have to work
[35:16] together well because they we blend them
[35:19] uh during the printing and we add nano
[35:21] composites to uh
[35:23] to sculpt the light through the uh
[35:25] through the monomer um i wanna say that
[35:28] we've been
[35:29] leo qualified so we've gone through
[35:31] radiation testing
[35:33] and we are doing some optics for nasa in
[35:36] both mid and long wave ir so we have
[35:39] some some
[35:41] different skill sets
[35:43] across the pond but we we hope to
[35:46] collaborate with europe in the future
[35:49] you have to get in touch with leo space
[35:51] photonics by the way james i think there
[35:53] has to be a nice meeting there and i
[35:56] want to have the the final question for
[35:58] you martin is coming from ntu we go to
[36:01] matthias parrot matias thank you very
[36:03] much for being with us today what's on
[36:04] your mind
[36:06] so hello everyone so i was wondering
[36:08] about the smallest voxel volume
[36:10] achievable by nanoscribe printers using
[36:14] um
[36:14] two photon polymerization and also the
[36:18] smallest
[36:19] thickness of a stealth standing wall
[36:21] achievable
[36:24] yeah a great question um
[36:26] though so the smallest features
[36:28] typically go down to about 100
[36:30] nanometers and then of course things get
[36:33] tricky so mechanical stability becomes
[36:36] an issue and if you think about uh some
[36:39] wall uh that should be minimum in size
[36:42] but it should also not fall over so
[36:43] mechanically still stable um then often
[36:46] a lot of tricks are involved like super
[36:48] critical point drawing in order to keep
[36:50] it stable and if you think about
[36:53] replicating some geometry by injection
[36:56] molding or by nano imprint lithography
[36:58] then often it's not the two-photon
[37:00] polymerization mechanism that limits um
[37:03] the performance but it's mostly the
[37:05] injection and
[37:07] imprint methods that are the limit so
[37:10] roughly said hundred nanometer smallest
[37:12] features um and let's say the mechanical
[37:17] uh
[37:18] robustness depends a lot on the geometry
[37:21] itself so one has to look at it
[37:23] at the case individually
[37:26] thank you but yes let's look at your
[37:27] case this is this is a business meeting
[37:30] you come all the way from mtu this is
[37:31] the nanian technology university in
[37:34] singapore i visited the university
[37:36] myself
[37:37] why did you ask that very good question
[37:39] agreed with martin what challenge what
[37:41] application are you targeting well there
[37:43] is obvious applications in uh so
[37:45] especially com like in
[37:47] conjugation with uh this technology of
[37:50] um so offered by glassman now but which
[37:53] was uh basically um studied in uh the
[37:57] 2017 paper by cuts
[37:59] in nature but i'm pretty sure a lot of
[38:01] people here read and that
[38:02] kind of brought
[38:04] i mean to me it was like a shock like oh
[38:06] this thing is possible and so i got a i
[38:09] had a lot of interest in um
[38:11] in printing uh guided optics using this
[38:13] technology so that's why i'm interested
[38:15] in all these printers and
[38:18] these new um resins which
[38:21] hopefully are good optically
[38:23] and good enough for
[38:26] printed optical circuits
[38:28] and other guided optics so it's a really
[38:31] interesting topic i i'm very impressed
[38:34] with the activities that ntu is doing in
[38:36] silicon photonics in biosensing i
[38:37] visited your lab myself i didn't see any
[38:40] to photon polymerization machine there
[38:42] is there no exchange not today yeah
[38:44] let's do that today after this meeting
[38:46] let's continue this fantastic meeting we
[38:48] go from nanoscribe to a person to a
[38:51] company and a person that means a lot to
[38:54] epic we go to the company fento print
[38:57] and we're gonna meet andrea lover the
[38:59] chief scientific officer of fentoprint
[39:02] they joined this meeting with certain
[39:04] challenges for the supply chain after
[39:06] the presentation i want to go to mbda
[39:09] understand the reason why they're at
[39:10] this meeting and try to make some
[39:12] connections within the members before
[39:14] andrea alovera chief science officer of
[39:16] fento print through the floor and the
[39:18] attention of everyone comes to you
[39:21] thank you very much jose for the
[39:23] invitation for the introduction
[39:25] so i'm gonna talk about glass which is a
[39:28] nice trendy transition compared to the
[39:30] discussion we just had so we were
[39:31] talking about princess glass optics and
[39:34] this is actually what we can offer
[39:37] so a few words about the company
[39:39] femtoprint we are a swiss-based company
[39:41] it's a small company today but nicely
[39:43] growing we are about 30 people and we
[39:47] sell all around the world micro devices
[39:50] printed out of glass for many different
[39:52] markets from life science
[39:55] to automotive aerospace watch industry
[39:58] and of course
[40:00] optics
[40:02] our technology is actually the opposite
[40:05] of what we have just heard so we are not
[40:08] really growing material but on the other
[40:10] side we are removing material from a
[40:11] substrate
[40:13] and
[40:14] the fabrication is done using a two-step
[40:16] process
[40:18] first of all we expose the material with
[40:21] our laser machines
[40:23] to inscribe an image of the object we
[40:25] want to fabricate like in the left
[40:27] and then we go into a chemical etching
[40:29] solution that selectively dissolve the
[40:31] material that we have exposed
[40:33] and in this way
[40:35] because we exploit only the voxel to
[40:37] modify the material we can build
[40:39] things that cannot be produced with
[40:41] standard
[40:42] for example lithography or fabrication
[40:44] technologies
[40:46] like this connector which has a channel
[40:48] which are plugged into the volume
[40:52] our main material for optics is fuel
[40:54] silica and there are many advantages for
[40:56] using fuel silica in the optics because
[40:58] it's for example uv transparent and
[41:00] there is transparency windows which goes
[41:03] uh very nicely to the to the ir it's
[41:06] stable can go to very harsh environment
[41:09] it's biocompatible therefore
[41:11] elements can also go into a human body
[41:13] or being used in labonchi for example
[41:17] and the fabrication can be of course
[41:19] done at wafer level scale
[41:22] here we see an 8 inch wafer
[41:24] these are just holes but
[41:26] in the same area and surface we can
[41:29] basically
[41:30] produce any type of components and what
[41:33] is also i think amazing of what we do is
[41:35] that we can achieve very very thick
[41:38] parts here uh
[41:40] we
[41:41] we can reach 20 millimeter in thickness
[41:46] aside of the main technology
[41:48] we are building the time many other
[41:50] post-processing that helps us in uh in
[41:53] tackles different markets like uh the
[41:56] surface polishing method that allows us
[41:58] to really reach the optical
[42:00] market by decreasing the
[42:03] while improving the surface quality of
[42:05] the produced components
[42:07] then we have
[42:08] encapsulation technologies we can modify
[42:11] the refractive index of the materials
[42:14] drill holes and more recently we are
[42:16] also handling metals to create
[42:19] electrodes in three dimension
[42:21] and other type of functionalization
[42:23] through partners
[42:27] this is an example
[42:29] of the glass components that we have
[42:31] produced for sierra letting grenoble
[42:33] it's a complex monolithic
[42:36] fabricated piece that includes out of
[42:39] plain lenses in the center and then
[42:41] freeform mirror on the side the whole
[42:44] idea was to build a
[42:46] particulate matter sensor
[42:48] but integrated with
[42:52] pre-treatment
[42:54] optical imaging
[42:55] in the device
[42:58] then other possibilities that
[43:01] can be offered by the technology of
[43:02] course are
[43:03] true free form fabrication
[43:06] and this is another example of a
[43:09] commercial part that can be purchased
[43:10] from torla website
[43:12] that we have tried to reproduce with our
[43:14] machine
[43:16] and without going into the detail uh
[43:19] here on the left we see an image of the
[43:21] parts produced
[43:23] with a laser and etching that of course
[43:25] needs some post processing to decrease
[43:27] the surface roughness
[43:29] and on the right the same shape
[43:32] after
[43:33] surface roughness smoothing with our
[43:36] process
[43:39] so um
[43:41] because i knew that you were going to
[43:42] ask the question what can you do for us
[43:45] i think we are really looking from the
[43:47] market
[43:48] we are really looking for partners bring
[43:50] ideas and devices at the table to
[43:53] develop together with us
[43:55] and what we can what we can bring here
[43:58] is our expertise in producing
[44:02] from micrometer to several millimeter
[44:05] size component
[44:06] we are really comfortable now to work
[44:08] with typical feature size in between 20
[44:10] micron and one millimeter
[44:12] we can decrease the surface roughness
[44:14] below
[44:15] lambda 10 average roughness below 20
[44:18] nanometer
[44:19] we can keep a shape accuracy belong wipe
[44:22] 1.5 micrometer
[44:24] compared to the 3d model
[44:26] and we are comfortable in
[44:29] producing curved shape for the moment
[44:32] using our localized polishing
[44:34] process and what we really hope
[44:38] at the end of this meeting but also for
[44:40] the future is to really find the good
[44:42] partners and customers to co-develop
[44:44] know-how and new products
[44:47] and
[44:48] what can we do for you
[44:51] well we offer a flexible 3d technology
[44:54] which really allows us to
[44:56] operate in different markets
[44:59] and our main offer today
[45:01] can go from fabrication of master i
[45:03] think we we heard a lot about master in
[45:06] the previous presentation
[45:07] [Music]
[45:08] we have demonstrated uh with few
[45:11] selected customers that also our
[45:12] technology is compatible with
[45:14] replication for injection molding
[45:17] machines and other technologies
[45:19] but in the same time we can offer fast
[45:22] prototyping
[45:23] small volume production till to meet
[45:25] volume production of optical components
[45:28] and other
[45:30] and with this i'd like to thank you for
[45:31] your attention
[45:34] thank you very much for a great
[45:35] presentation and i'm still puzzled about
[45:38] going to use glass i'm going to use
[45:40] polymer i to be honest i there's so many
[45:43] industry trends that is hard for me to
[45:45] do to summarize that in a sentence i
[45:47] don't think there is a clear
[45:49] sentence for that luckily we have lots
[45:51] of different end users with different
[45:53] challenges when it comes to what
[45:54] material to use so i want to bring to
[45:57] the attention a few end users that we
[45:59] have in the room we're going to go first
[46:00] to mbda
[46:03] a good afternoon all the way from the uk
[46:06] nvda is a company the defense sector we
[46:08] all know the company nvda and you know
[46:10] what is your business what is your
[46:12] interest in 3d printed optics and when
[46:15] do you target polymer or plastic and
[46:18] when do you target glass as the material
[46:20] to those optics
[46:23] if you have any slides to share with us
[46:26] now it is also a good time yes i'm gonna
[46:28] i'm just gonna share that i've only got
[46:30] a single slide but hopefully you should
[46:32] be able to
[46:33] see that right now can you see that
[46:36] let's see yes you go slice show mode
[46:40] excellent okay that's burnt um
[46:42] so nba's interest in meta materials um
[46:45] we've only started engaging with you
[46:46] guys uh with information materials
[46:48] recently but as a brief description mbda
[46:52] is a european complex weapon prime
[46:55] so it is uh
[46:57] my name's quang man and i'm the eo
[46:59] census technical expert in mbta
[47:01] so mbd is the primary missiles company
[47:04] in europe
[47:05] um so we use imaging infrared technology
[47:08] predominantly in missile seekers but
[47:10] also we're interested in the technology
[47:12] for signature control
[47:15] as we develop systems for the future the
[47:16] requirement for our systems become more
[47:18] demanding and requires increased design
[47:20] flexibility this could be fitting this
[47:23] could be to fit into smaller spaces
[47:24] where the overall size of the missile is
[47:26] reduced or to fit into
[47:28] unconventional spaces as in the case of
[47:30] multi-mode seekers
[47:32] so messy materials can help us deliver
[47:33] this challenge
[47:35] where metamaterials have the potential
[47:36] to reduce the number of lens elements
[47:38] and operate in confined spaces
[47:40] a metal lens has a sub-wavelength
[47:42] meta-surface pattern
[47:44] manufactured on the optical substrate to
[47:46] convert a optical input wavefront into a
[47:48] desired optical wavefront
[47:51] by manipulating the scaffold phase
[47:53] across the surface component some of
[47:55] this you've seen
[47:56] under previous talks
[47:58] so it sounds like there's some good
[48:01] collaboration there that could be
[48:02] possible
[48:04] missile domes can also introduce the
[48:06] significant operations into the image
[48:08] form image forming beam
[48:10] and it is possible to correct correct
[48:12] for this using asymmetric conformal
[48:14] surfaces a metal lens optical component
[48:17] could achieve optical compensation for
[48:19] imaging through conformal surfaces
[48:22] with more cost effectiveness than
[48:23] typical conventional free-form optical
[48:25] designs
[48:27] and the other feature which i'm more
[48:29] interested in for myself is the
[48:32] is the survivability uh so there's also
[48:35] the need for our systems to operate in
[48:36] more difficult environments where the
[48:38] systems need to become less detectable
[48:40] or more resilient to the adversary's
[48:42] capability to increase the survivability
[48:45] of our systems
[48:46] metamaterials could be used to control
[48:48] the materials emissivity reflectivity
[48:50] and absorptivity using
[48:53] using technologies such as the graphics
[48:55] scene as nano resonators
[48:59] so most infrared images operate in
[49:01] specific
[49:02] main wave bands due to the attenuation
[49:04] of our atmosphere
[49:05] these include short wave ir medium wave
[49:07] ir and non-wave ir
[49:09] so material metamodels could be designed
[49:12] to promote and limit
[49:14] emissions of light in defined wave bands
[49:16] and if these can be designed to admit
[49:18] outside the wave bands of detection and
[49:20] to reduce emissions within the wave
[49:22] outlet detection this increases our
[49:24] chances of survivability
[49:27] another avenue is the
[49:28] directed energy weapons that should be
[49:30] used against our systems such as
[49:32] laserjew or high rf energy
[49:34] uh use meta materials you could use you
[49:36] could design these uh these metal these
[49:39] features so that you can reflect the
[49:41] wave brands of interest and again
[49:42] increase our survivability
[49:44] another factor is um so other forms of
[49:47] detection use reflected energy to detect
[49:49] our systems such as radar
[49:51] again metamaterials could be used to
[49:53] specifically absorb these wave bands so
[49:56] again reducing uh their return signal
[49:58] and increasing so our survivability
[50:01] and there are fields that uh so these
[50:03] are the fields that the eo census
[50:04] department imagine that metamaterials
[50:06] can provide some benefit for the future
[50:08] there may be other
[50:09] areas that metamodels could be applied
[50:11] and other technologies and departments
[50:13] if you have any thoughts about this or
[50:14] any questions you can contact me
[50:16] directly
[50:17] that's all i have for now uh if you have
[50:19] any other questions please let me know
[50:21] well you have a lot i love when an end
[50:23] user comes to the meeting with a
[50:25] particular challenge so nvda wants to
[50:27] start strategic cooperations in a step
[50:30] change
[50:31] in ir seeker design step change optics
[50:35] meta surface lenses this is a very hot
[50:37] topic in the industry right now we
[50:39] already saw the success stories that are
[50:40] coming out from every corner i know that
[50:43] the nil technologies is listening to
[50:45] this meeting eh who can help
[50:49] let me see i have some hands up
[50:52] james phil from nanobox how can you help
[50:56] well we've made uh imagers for
[50:59] uh missiles
[51:01] uh where we've printed right on the
[51:03] image sensor itself um that was
[51:07] a field trial
[51:09] uh going through shock and vibration um
[51:11] the heat humidity
[51:13] um so that they're uh
[51:16] they're used
[51:18] in
[51:19] the services
[51:20] uh or or beginning to be
[51:22] uh used in the services over here um so
[51:26] in and we do do uh we do control uh
[51:29] permittivity and uh permittivity uh of
[51:33] material sets for um cloaking uh radar
[51:37] images and and the like so i i will send
[51:40] you some presentations
[51:44] that's great thank you
[51:45] i want to also have a look at this slide
[51:48] i will share it with everyone have a
[51:50] look at this meta surface lens i think
[51:52] many of you already telling me that they
[51:53] want to help but they don't want to talk
[51:55] publicly so i think it is
[51:58] okay that that we leave this as in the
[52:01] us
[52:02] introductions of lying i know that the
[52:04] topic is is the top the topic is the
[52:06] defense and it's better to to have the
[52:08] introduction discussions online so don't
[52:10] worry how many you want to help let's do
[52:12] the introductions later i want to
[52:14] comment i want to bring to the
[52:15] discussion because we have a person from
[52:17] the automotive sector we had lionel
[52:19] gigiot he told me it is too early to to
[52:22] speak out my challenges so i just want
[52:24] because this is of course this is a
[52:26] meeting not a webinar i want leonard to
[52:28] say hello to us and i want to to ask him
[52:32] uh what brought him to this meeting
[52:34] lionel gigger representing the company
[52:36] automotive company renault
[52:38] leonard good afternoon hello
[52:40] good afternoon
[52:42] thank you for
[52:43] giving
[52:44] micro uh just uh to say this is an early
[52:47] participation today and
[52:50] my interest is for uh functional
[52:52] surfaces
[52:53] uh whether it's for optical aspects or
[52:56] or uh photocatalytic aspect and
[53:01] any aspect that we could imagine in a
[53:04] in a
[53:05] in a car
[53:06] for uh functional surfaces
[53:09] so uh today i'm i'm learning i'm
[53:12] listening and learning to you and uh
[53:14] that's uh very interesting and i i thank
[53:16] you a lot for for these uh
[53:18] speeches thank you very much leonard for
[53:21] that i i am sorry that i brought you to
[53:23] the room like this but i think it's very
[53:25] important people get to know you and i
[53:26] want to talk to you maybe later today at
[53:28] another meeting about how the automotive
[53:30] industries is the glass versus polymer
[53:33] i've been told that this requires a
[53:34] separate meeting and we are trying to
[53:36] arrange it uh leona thank you very much
[53:38] for that we have some questions in the
[53:40] room for the companifento print dorothea
[53:44] from glasomer what's on your mind
[53:47] yes hi thanks for the really nice
[53:49] presentation i really love the
[53:51] femtoprint images makes glass looks so
[53:53] nice so i was wondering uh you you have
[53:56] this great technology of smoothening out
[53:58] so which looks really good so you as i
[54:01] remember make also channels on the
[54:03] inside of glass can you also smooth them
[54:05] on the inside or is that a smoothing
[54:08] exclusively on the outside of the glass
[54:10] basically
[54:11] i know unfortunately we cannot smooth on
[54:13] the inside we can always move on the
[54:15] outside
[54:16] and then what what did you say the
[54:18] roughness parameters were roughly when
[54:20] they're unsmoothed
[54:22] so as and surfaces can be in the best
[54:25] case 80 nanometer uh which is happening
[54:28] on the vertical side wall and in on the
[54:30] 3d shapes in general we are around 200
[54:33] 250 nanometers
[54:35] okay i have another quick question if i
[54:37] may so how how fast for this really nice
[54:40] um so this really nice uh complex device
[54:43] that you showed so how long does it
[54:44] really take to make such a you know a
[54:47] channel or a like
[54:49] structure like that
[54:51] so for that for a part like that uh the
[54:53] typical time is maybe half an hour to
[54:56] one hour something like that
[54:58] and that's all on waiver scale so you
[55:00] have thousands of them at the same time
[55:02] well maybe not thousand of those but a
[55:05] lot uh yeah we can feel the wafer
[55:08] okay and that's with smoothening so half
[55:10] an hour the whole thing is you know
[55:11] laser on etching smoothening everything
[55:14] no that's the laser part then the
[55:15] etching is a parallel and even if it's a
[55:18] bit longer it doesn't matter because all
[55:20] the devices are go to the etching one by
[55:23] one
[55:24] while the the laser processing is single
[55:26] so we produce one after the other
[55:28] okay cool thank you very much really
[55:30] impressive
[55:31] yeah it is really impressive but also
[55:33] very impressive what dorothea is doing
[55:34] and a huge fan of class summer it's so
[55:36] great to have you here but we have
[55:38] another question in the room but this
[55:40] question is for nbda and it's coming
[55:43] from nts optel in nightmaking in the
[55:46] netherlands frank ernst you're a system
[55:49] integrator and tester of optical
[55:51] instruments what's on your mind what
[55:53] question and suggestion do you have for
[55:55] nvda
[55:57] um actually i have more a question
[56:00] we are
[56:01] building uh
[56:03] machines for uh the
[56:06] mass production of these meta structures
[56:09] so do you do you need those yes or no
[56:13] that's how i i in the chat said the link
[56:16] um uh so this is maybe more a question
[56:19] to everybody if you if you need these we
[56:21] uh i think we are market leader
[56:24] of these these
[56:27] of these testers for for mass production
[56:31] we are talking about optical testers for
[56:34] mass production of course then the
[56:35] question was enough for for mbda who is
[56:39] a mass production luckily
[56:41] it is not in the missile sector yet but
[56:43] there are many others so let's discuss
[56:46] it
[56:47] offline with anybody who has suggestions
[56:50] today on the testing i'm going to look
[56:51] at all the optics manufacturers today we
[56:53] have so many so from the premium
[56:55] ams synoptic all of you a chrome asus
[56:59] micro optics
[57:00] please make sure that you tell us later
[57:02] maybe i will make a round q a later on
[57:05] your needs for testing so wilfred from
[57:07] suse micro optics stay alert to
[57:09] answering the question later we have
[57:11] another question in the room is coming
[57:15] from my very good friend and top
[57:17] consultant in the industry ruth hubert's
[57:20] from think made engineering and
[57:22] consulting and a person that we all know
[57:24] and love in the micro of this community
[57:26] ruth
[57:27] what's on your mind
[57:29] actually i do not know what what kind of
[57:32] question i just posed i just gave you an
[57:34] information
[57:36] so you told me that you are a you know
[57:38] you just give an invited talk a bessler
[57:40] start going this year and you talk about
[57:43] the glass or plastics can you give us
[57:45] your first insights how is that when it
[57:47] comes to micro optics how is the market
[57:50] looking at glass versus plastics yeah so
[57:53] so when it comes to when it comes to
[57:55] very small optics typically plastics are
[57:57] the best better choice so you have much
[58:00] much high performance many high
[58:01] performance plastic materials
[58:04] i would not call them plastic because
[58:06] it's it sounds a little bit you know but
[58:08] but the question was was actually glass
[58:10] or plastic so whatever is below 500
[58:13] micron could be a challenge for for
[58:15] glasses but i also mentioned glossomer
[58:18] which which have uh basically a um
[58:22] a formulation of of glass particles in
[58:26] in polymer matrix but you need high high
[58:28] temperature processes for them in order
[58:31] to remove the the organics right so so
[58:33] that you get the performance of the
[58:35] material and
[58:37] i haven't seen actually
[58:40] not of
[58:41] not good enough data so i'm looking
[58:44] forward to to receive some data of them
[58:47] to to take that into account also for
[58:49] many many customers asking me for advice
[58:52] thank you so much thank you very much
[58:55] ruth ruth and i went last week to the
[58:57] peak international conference we also
[58:59] met other people that are in the in the
[59:01] room and we are very happy to see how
[59:04] two-photon polymerization is making a
[59:05] room in the packaging of photonic
[59:07] internet circuits the topic that they
[59:08] want to discuss after the next
[59:10] presentation before that seuss micro up
[59:12] this will renewl you have something to
[59:14] share with us
[59:16] yes thank you uh jose for giving me the
[59:18] floor um well we look of course at all
[59:21] different materials and
[59:22] the difficulty with glass is always um
[59:26] and and who just said it it's it's the
[59:29] high temperature that's one problem and
[59:30] the other is um
[59:32] is the high shrinkage which makes it
[59:34] actually very difficult in to get the
[59:36] shape right so when we
[59:38] so it really depends on the application
[59:40] if you go to imaging optics you need the
[59:42] perfect aceric shape and and to get this
[59:45] right polymers are still much more
[59:47] suitable in micro optics at least than
[59:49] than glasses glasses shrink so much that
[59:52] they deform so much that it's very
[59:53] difficult to compensate this forms in in
[59:56] the masters and the master ring process
[59:59] the origination process process is a
[01:00:01] very expensive process as we all know
[01:00:03] so that's why people opt for for
[01:00:05] plastics
[01:00:06] and um
[01:00:08] so so that's why what things that
[01:00:10] frontal brand do are great because or
[01:00:12] it's directly in the right material so
[01:00:14] this is
[01:00:15] where their strength is obviously
[01:00:18] and we also have to talk about the
[01:00:20] functionalization of the material which
[01:00:22] is uh far more mature in glass than in
[01:00:24] polymer but before that dorothy you have
[01:00:27] something to share with us as well yes i
[01:00:29] just uh what so what's a high shrinkage
[01:00:31] factor and then again if you have an
[01:00:34] isotropic shrinkage then it really is
[01:00:36] not that big of a problem so what's high
[01:00:39] for you when you say high shrinkage
[01:00:53] laser sintering of metals you end up
[01:00:55] having six seven eight nine percent of
[01:00:57] yeah and it's very i'm not saying it's
[01:00:59] impossible it's just very difficult to
[01:01:02] compensate so this is uh and there are
[01:01:05] definitely applications for these glass
[01:01:07] i'm not saying it's not working but but
[01:01:09] we do imaging optics micro lenses below
[01:01:12] way below one millimeter half a
[01:01:14] millimeter in size and and they still
[01:01:16] have to be perfect asus very low rms
[01:01:18] deviations
[01:01:20] and and and i haven't seen these
[01:01:23] these glasses
[01:01:24] it takes a lot of iterations until you
[01:01:26] get that i'm not saying that it doesn't
[01:01:28] work it's just much more difficult to
[01:01:30] get get it under control yeah evil
[01:01:34] i can tell you i can tell you even with
[01:01:36] polymers with low shrinkage factors it
[01:01:39] still takes three to four iterations
[01:01:41] until you get the right length shape and
[01:01:43] this is a very expensive and lengthy
[01:01:45] process
[01:01:46] definitely i mean we do injection
[01:01:47] molding so it's a question also of the
[01:01:49] design it's not only a question of the
[01:01:51] material definitely but isotropic
[01:01:52] shrinkage so you can really
[01:01:55] know what the part will look like in the
[01:01:56] end
[01:01:58] okay thank you well we should talk again
[01:02:01] you have to talk and you have to know
[01:02:03] that both of you are really successful
[01:02:05] stories so you have to find room for
[01:02:07] cooperation do it for me do it for me
[01:02:09] work together for me i want to continue
[01:02:11] with the program i already talked about
[01:02:13] the photonic and treated circuit
[01:02:14] packaging nanoscribe is pushing this to
[01:02:17] the limit vanguard photon is pushing
[01:02:19] this to a living multiphoton optics
[01:02:20] pushing this to the limit you guys are
[01:02:22] doing an amazing job i want to
[01:02:24] understand where this market is going
[01:02:25] and this is one of the key applications
[01:02:27] of our next speaker today we are going
[01:02:30] to
[01:02:30] a beautiful city we are going to castro
[01:02:33] to meet philip gertrich the co-founder
[01:02:36] of vanguard automation philippe good
[01:02:40] afternoon i think casrucka is a
[01:02:41] fantastic city i can't wait to visit it
[01:02:44] the floor and the attention of everyone
[01:02:46] goes to you
[01:02:47] yeah thank you jose for slay show mode
[01:02:50] so we can see the quality that you
[01:02:51] deserve yes of course i'm going in
[01:02:54] yes oh i'm in field mode
[01:02:56] thanks for the kind introduction all the
[01:02:58] energy you bring to this english is much
[01:03:01] appreciated
[01:03:02] all right i'm talking about 3d
[01:03:04] lithography for photonic integration and
[01:03:06] and there is a big big focus on photonic
[01:03:09] integration we're not a 3d printing
[01:03:11] company we're we're using 3d printers to
[01:03:14] do for running integration that's what's
[01:03:16] special about this
[01:03:18] what's our key challenge
[01:03:20] we're looking into solve the following
[01:03:22] challenge we're having two components
[01:03:25] um the prototype system is a
[01:03:27] semiconductor laser and the soi chip and
[01:03:30] we want to interconnect them and what
[01:03:32] would you do usually you would use
[01:03:34] active alignment and and that that
[01:03:36] obviously works nice in some situation
[01:03:38] but it's a very tedious time consuming
[01:03:40] and less expensive process i mean it
[01:03:43] takes up for the majority of all costs
[01:03:45] of assembly that's like if you build a
[01:03:47] car and you spend all the effort just on
[01:03:49] assembling the pipes together and we
[01:03:52] want to solve this challenge we're
[01:03:54] solving it by the following process
[01:03:57] 3d print a freeform waveguide between
[01:04:00] optical components you can see that here
[01:04:02] in green we call it photonic wirebond
[01:04:05] and the photonic wire bond you can
[01:04:07] compensate misalignment of the chips so
[01:04:10] if you're using a high-speed die bond
[01:04:13] like you know from electronics may has
[01:04:15] 10 20 micrometer accuracy so you you
[01:04:18] have a misalignment of say 20 micrometer
[01:04:21] our photonic wire bond can compensate it
[01:04:23] so you have a simple task to assemble
[01:04:26] the chips you can do this really fast
[01:04:28] and we're then solving the assembly
[01:04:30] challenge by 3d printing something to it
[01:04:32] at the same time matching the mode fill
[01:04:34] and doing all the rest
[01:04:36] in the subsequent step we're collecting
[01:04:39] these interfaces with the low index
[01:04:41] polymer that's
[01:04:43] first of all for single mode operation
[01:04:45] all we do is in single mode operation
[01:04:47] and secondly to be reliable to positive
[01:04:51] coordinate tests and so on i'm going to
[01:04:52] talk about this in the end again i'm
[01:04:54] going to come back to this
[01:04:56] so how does it work
[01:04:58] at the
[01:04:59] let's say it's the engine of our process
[01:05:01] but it's just just a small part it's
[01:05:04] just a part let's say that way it's a 3d
[01:05:06] printing process it's also two photon
[01:05:08] polymerization so what we do we take
[01:05:11] objective lens up here and we have a
[01:05:14] second laser beam that can hook it into
[01:05:16] a resistant polymerizer and with this
[01:05:18] objective lens we we look at our laser
[01:05:21] we look at output we localize it with
[01:05:24] 700 nanometer accuracy we automatically
[01:05:27] calculate the trajectory that connects
[01:05:30] these two tips and then the machine does
[01:05:32] everything else itself and that can go
[01:05:35] in quite attractive cycling times for
[01:05:37] many applications and we supply the
[01:05:40] whole process we we don't supply we
[01:05:42] don't give you a 3d printer we sell the
[01:05:45] process that connects optical
[01:05:48] chips to give you an example on the left
[01:05:51] side you can see that here in green is
[01:05:53] the photonic wire bond connecting soi
[01:05:56] chip here on the top with a laser
[01:05:59] so this is 20 micrometer so it's maybe
[01:06:00] 250 micrometers long and you can see if
[01:06:03] you can look carefully it's compensating
[01:06:06] from lateral mid alignment which would
[01:06:08] otherwise lead to well incredible high
[01:06:11] coupling loss and we can do with this we
[01:06:13] can do typically let's say qdb that's a
[01:06:15] very reasonable value we can go lower
[01:06:17] and play uh some specifications um
[01:06:20] so uh so the performance is really
[01:06:22] attractive i believe of course our
[01:06:25] technology can be also applied to any
[01:06:27] other optical component like a uh plc
[01:06:31] 420 uh tip here uh that is connected to
[01:06:34] a single mode fiber and and and and if
[01:06:37] you look at the uh if you look at the
[01:06:39] tip here at the signal match five you
[01:06:41] see it's paper structure the point where
[01:06:44] i bond is getting bigger you can have
[01:06:46] nice mode matching to pretty much
[01:06:48] anything
[01:06:49] and that gives you very low coupling
[01:06:51] loss
[01:06:52] now with that said we cannot only print
[01:06:54] photonic wire once of course we can
[01:06:56] print 3d lenses for example you can see
[01:06:58] them here and our main value proposition
[01:07:01] is there their reliability test so i'm
[01:07:05] absolutely a polymer person in this
[01:07:07] polymer
[01:07:08] uh class discussion that is because we
[01:07:10] can make polymers reliable and they have
[01:07:13] the key advantages that if you print
[01:07:15] them on something they don't shrink
[01:07:17] we can we can have teleported tests and
[01:07:20] have
[01:07:21] shrinkage well below one percent like
[01:07:23] 0.5 so so it's really really accurate we
[01:07:27] can have plus minus 50 100 nanometers
[01:07:30] surface accuracy we have we can have sub
[01:07:33] 10 nanometer
[01:07:34] surface roughness so the performance is
[01:07:37] really superior and at the same time
[01:07:39] very stable even for the application
[01:07:42] we're close to another specs to not
[01:07:45] operate guessing space
[01:07:46] now this is our
[01:07:48] key product that's the sonata that's a
[01:07:51] 3d printing machine it can handle big
[01:07:53] wafers 12 inch
[01:07:55] and it's a fully automated system
[01:07:58] now that's not the only thing that we
[01:08:00] sell we actually actually sell the whole
[01:08:01] package
[01:08:02] so we also have a system which takes
[01:08:06] over the dispensing the development and
[01:08:10] and and the cladding of of the photonic
[01:08:13] wireborn
[01:08:14] so this um this device is called the
[01:08:16] reprise and this allows you to actually
[01:08:20] insert chips
[01:08:21] sample chips of course we do the 3d
[01:08:24] printing we do the resist dispensing we
[01:08:27] do the development we do the cladding we
[01:08:29] go through we give you the whole process
[01:08:32] you do not you do not need to establish
[01:08:34] the process of 3d printing the optical
[01:08:37] elements we give that to you so you can
[01:08:40] start fabrication with our devices
[01:08:43] and uh just to give you an idea how the
[01:08:46] file interface can look like here you
[01:08:48] have a filmmate 5 array on the bottom
[01:08:50] left it doesn't peel
[01:08:52] the machine does the cladding you can
[01:08:54] see that here and it automatically
[01:08:57] encapsules everything and make sure your
[01:08:59] devices are reliable
[01:09:01] to sum up our product is an assembly
[01:09:04] line or a is a
[01:09:07] is a combined combination of machines
[01:09:10] processes material software everything
[01:09:13] you need to connect optical chips we
[01:09:16] have typical performance of say rgb we
[01:09:18] have minus 30 db reference reflection
[01:09:21] that's important for lasers and we have
[01:09:23] tested um
[01:09:25] knee devices for 85 85 we've tested them
[01:09:28] for minus 40 80 difficult 85 actually
[01:09:32] typical cardiac specs
[01:09:35] actually lenses have gone through high
[01:09:36] acceleration reflux or during um
[01:09:40] gold solving ants on cryo operation and
[01:09:42] even high power operation
[01:09:44] so now uh to actually answer the most
[01:09:48] important question of the targets what
[01:09:50] we offer is a laser
[01:09:52] single mode fiber integration without
[01:09:54] active alignment so solving a huge
[01:09:57] challenge i believe what we're looking
[01:09:59] for obviously customers that are willing
[01:10:01] to adapt our technology we are demanding
[01:10:04] on rethinking your fabrication process
[01:10:07] but i think we can solve very very
[01:10:10] important challenges of photonic
[01:10:11] integration
[01:10:15] thank you so much for the presentation i
[01:10:17] have to ask you because
[01:10:20] we've been talking to you and to
[01:10:21] christian course already for for many
[01:10:24] years about how to bring the photonic
[01:10:26] internet circuit a community to interact
[01:10:30] with i i know that the collaboration
[01:10:32] with ficon tech and your your
[01:10:34] introduction in the pixel pyro link have
[01:10:35] made a difference uh what is the current
[01:10:38] scenario what is the call you define the
[01:10:41] technology readiness level for packaging
[01:10:44] photonic integrated circuits with
[01:10:47] to photon polymerization
[01:10:49] so
[01:10:50] so what we can have is we have
[01:10:53] demonstrator assemblies reference
[01:10:55] assemblies that show how the technology
[01:10:57] works
[01:10:58] so that's uh that also has undergone um
[01:11:01] telecoordinate
[01:11:02] tests and that's a typical trl6 level so
[01:11:05] that's that's the level until uh we
[01:11:08] qualify products of course customers
[01:11:10] that already have our machines are going
[01:11:12] further on this so we've given them that
[01:11:15] uh the process and they're implementing
[01:11:17] it into their their product their
[01:11:19] building system office and and this is
[01:11:21] then moving uh away from uh from six so
[01:11:25] but but but six is is like um i i think
[01:11:28] that's uh uh a test um or a um a
[01:11:32] prototype in uh in the relevant
[01:11:34] environment so that's what we can
[01:11:37] what we can give you
[01:11:39] hi i've been to the debate martin from
[01:11:41] nanoscribe and willie from multiphoton
[01:11:44] optics
[01:11:45] uh
[01:11:46] what is the current scenario is this a
[01:11:49] technology for prototyping or do we
[01:11:52] believe that we can go into production
[01:11:54] for the for the packaging and fiber to
[01:11:57] chip assembly of photonic internet
[01:11:59] circuits
[01:12:02] let's start since you're the three of
[01:12:03] you very polite let's start with martin
[01:12:06] ferenoscribe
[01:12:08] clear we go for production that's the
[01:12:10] clear target
[01:12:12] there's no excuse it will go forward
[01:12:15] until mass production of optics i'm
[01:12:18] pretty certain
[01:12:19] for many other applications silicon
[01:12:21] photonics for example a transceiver the
[01:12:23] the rocket photonics in in in wearables
[01:12:27] or even the technology for free space
[01:12:29] communication in nanosatellites we are
[01:12:30] targeting
[01:12:32] large volume manufacturing we are
[01:12:34] talking about millions per year is that
[01:12:37] a a volume that we can target with to
[01:12:40] photon polymerization
[01:12:41] yes yes definitely
[01:12:44] it's the fastest let's say if you think
[01:12:47] about the technologies on the market in
[01:12:49] 3d printing
[01:12:51] in additive microfabrication if you take
[01:12:53] the volume
[01:12:54] pixel the smallest building block into
[01:12:57] account then two-photon polymerization
[01:12:59] is the fastest technology on the market
[01:13:02] and integrated photonics is a perfect
[01:13:04] example where both the shape accuracy as
[01:13:07] well as the volume are ideal for two
[01:13:09] photon polymerization it's inevitable
[01:13:11] that it needs to succeed
[01:13:14] i i am as positive as you are asking the
[01:13:16] questions because i want to hear what
[01:13:17] you're saying hey willie from
[01:13:19] multiphoton optics say don't be too
[01:13:21] quiet by the way really i'm a huge fan
[01:13:23] of you as a person for how fantastic you
[01:13:26] are in what you do but also a big fan of
[01:13:28] multiphoton optics
[01:13:30] how did you see this photonic integrity
[01:13:32] circuit packaging this is still the
[01:13:33] eternal promise or the reality for this
[01:13:36] technology yeah thank you um so that is
[01:13:39] very interesting topic and um it is a
[01:13:41] target for us to bring this to the
[01:13:43] production so right now it is not really
[01:13:46] at a production um level but we are
[01:13:49] hoping to get this done pretty soon
[01:13:52] we have sorry a i think bruce wanted to
[01:13:54] comment bruce who wears something mate
[01:13:59] i um
[01:14:00] i i think i think both are right but i
[01:14:03] think they miss uh one really major
[01:14:06] point is that you need to integrate that
[01:14:08] in a whole
[01:14:10] sphere of different technologies so uh
[01:14:14] what we demonstrated like in in 2007 or
[01:14:17] so before i founded this company was
[01:14:20] that that this is possible and we had
[01:14:22] like a raid which was like 12 centimeter
[01:14:25] wave guides
[01:14:27] and and a huge
[01:14:30] data transfer rate but still you need to
[01:14:33] implement that into a
[01:14:35] real environment meaning each customer
[01:14:38] has a certain design and each customer
[01:14:41] wants to have something different
[01:14:43] meaning the
[01:14:44] the flexibility of the tool of the let's
[01:14:48] say two photo lithography
[01:14:51] is
[01:14:52] tremendous but
[01:14:54] you need to adapt that and you need to
[01:14:56] implement that into the mouse process
[01:14:58] and i never would have founded
[01:15:00] multiphoton
[01:15:02] at that time when i would not have been
[01:15:04] sure that this is possible and i still
[01:15:06] think
[01:15:07] you just need to do the right things
[01:15:10] so it's up to the to the guys to do the
[01:15:14] right things
[01:15:15] i also bring to the discussion henry
[01:15:18] henry jackson which is also the founder
[01:15:20] of app nano a newcomer in this industry
[01:15:23] thank you very much henry for being with
[01:15:25] us today you have seen the initial
[01:15:27] discussions we talked already about
[01:15:28] glass versus polymer we talked about 3d
[01:15:30] printing being only not for polymer that
[01:15:33] was the first crashing
[01:15:35] argument that we had today how you see
[01:15:37] this industry and what is the piece in
[01:15:39] the puzzle that you cover and for the
[01:15:41] others there's a couple of questions in
[01:15:42] the room and gonna come afterwards
[01:15:44] hendrik sure sure so thank you very much
[01:15:46] for the the questions first i'm not a
[01:15:48] founder of up nano i i worked with
[01:15:51] martin just until last year so
[01:15:54] but yes i see absolutely as previously
[01:15:57] said
[01:15:58] the smaller the lenses the more the
[01:16:01] polymer comes into its play
[01:16:03] um
[01:16:04] i would say absolutely so of course i'm
[01:16:07] a polymer guy um just as we've been
[01:16:10] talking about earlier on uh two photon
[01:16:13] polymerization is an excellent tool for
[01:16:16] um
[01:16:17] polymer optics
[01:16:19] and of course up nano and the difference
[01:16:22] to the the previous speakers is the app
[01:16:24] nano makes a high speed two photon
[01:16:26] pronunciation printer for example for
[01:16:28] doing meta lenses and so on i will just
[01:16:30] show you my today's single slide
[01:16:34] please show us
[01:16:36] and i'm very very very amazed on how
[01:16:38] fast app nano has made the machines
[01:16:41] already available for for a
[01:16:43] manufacturing please tell us henrik
[01:16:46] exactly so um of course we work with
[01:16:48] glass we work with glassomer we work
[01:16:50] with polymer and not only the
[01:16:53] non-fluorescent transparent material
[01:16:55] with high and low
[01:16:57] refractive index and so on but what i
[01:16:59] want to show today just quickly is the
[01:17:02] equally important
[01:17:04] aspect which is the possibility to block
[01:17:06] light right so we have the glass
[01:17:09] material we have the polymer material
[01:17:11] but we also see a great request for
[01:17:14] being able to block materials so in this
[01:17:16] case we printed a polymer lens with a
[01:17:19] lens barrel
[01:17:21] 1.4
[01:17:22] millimeter in diameter and of course
[01:17:25] this can be holders for large
[01:17:28] metal lenses and can use the other way
[01:17:31] just wanted to introduce just quickly
[01:17:33] while we're here um and this material is
[01:17:35] super super black it blocks light from
[01:17:39] 100 micron thickness basically
[01:17:42] super black
[01:17:44] and i want to come back to you later but
[01:17:46] now we have to address a few questions
[01:17:47] that we have in the room the first one
[01:17:49] is coming from switzerland a micro
[01:17:51] optics manufacturer who has been
[01:17:53] introducing micro optics into
[01:17:55] instrumentation of course i'm talking
[01:17:57] about fispa withy thank you very much
[01:17:59] for being with us today tell us what's
[01:18:01] on your mind i think you have a question
[01:18:02] for bangword and also for multiphoton
[01:18:06] well my question was a very simple one
[01:18:09] so as to my knowledge most of this
[01:18:12] photonic wire bonding is used in
[01:18:14] telecommunication
[01:18:16] if you would bring this
[01:18:18] up a level in power
[01:18:20] can you tell me is there a limitation
[01:18:23] you know by today for polymer or i think
[01:18:26] multi-photon is even working on almost
[01:18:28] as uh
[01:18:30] how far you can drive the power up by
[01:18:32] still keeping some lifetime yeah so we
[01:18:35] have tested that actually um we've used
[01:18:39] fiber to fiber connect as a simple task
[01:18:42] system because there you can increase
[01:18:44] the power to sufficient level to
[01:18:46] actually see failure
[01:18:47] and the power levels to which we can go
[01:18:50] reliably is minus 27 dbm
[01:18:54] if you go higher high you see some thumb
[01:18:57] effects you see some heating which
[01:18:59] causes
[01:19:00] deformation or whatever and and
[01:19:02] eventually actually um also failure
[01:19:06] for for lenses it's a bit higher it goes
[01:19:09] from the 30 dbm region
[01:19:11] but but it's quite similar i'm both
[01:19:13] talking about c band o band we haven't
[01:19:15] casted but it should be a bit better
[01:19:17] because absorption is lower and now
[01:19:20] transferring this to the dial places we
[01:19:22] haven't tested these power levels on on
[01:19:24] diet lasers yet but i would expect that
[01:19:27] we can easily go into the same breach
[01:19:29] and the reason is the reason is we
[01:19:31] wouldn't 3d print the lenses directly on
[01:19:33] the faucet because they have incredibly
[01:19:35] high intensities but we would offset
[01:19:37] them by pillars
[01:19:38] and then you have the beam expanded a
[01:19:40] bit that intensity is not that high and
[01:19:44] and and i i think you can you can go
[01:19:46] into such politics eventually that that
[01:19:49] must be tested so if you want approaches
[01:19:51] we can have there an evaluation project
[01:19:54] i have a suggestion for a suitable test
[01:19:56] um system and and
[01:19:59] we can demonstrate that this works
[01:20:04] did a fantastic job bringing all these
[01:20:06] companies who are
[01:20:08] competitors but at the same time amazing
[01:20:11] friends i really want to organize a
[01:20:12] meeting somewhere maybe in jenna or
[01:20:14] somewhere like that in a switzerland of
[01:20:16] optics and and talk about a polymer
[01:20:19] versus versus glass because that will be
[01:20:23] you know and we're going to get t-shirts
[01:20:24] i'm a polymer guy i'm a class guy
[01:20:26] panagiotis you brought all these
[01:20:27] companies i want to understand how they
[01:20:29] compare to each other i understand there
[01:20:32] is one company who didn't show their one
[01:20:34] slide yet to bring the whole puzzle
[01:20:36] together
[01:20:37] yes yes it's true jose
[01:20:39] this is amazing today where it's
[01:20:40] happening we have a lot of speakers
[01:20:42] covering all the on the supply chain
[01:20:44] and uh
[01:20:46] we have a lot of participants and i'm
[01:20:48] very happy for that and the there is
[01:20:50] it's true that uh uh moody photon optics
[01:20:52] really would like to present also some
[01:20:54] things uh to the rest of the
[01:20:56] participants so please really if you
[01:20:57] want
[01:20:59] okay thank you i will
[01:21:02] okay
[01:21:03] i hope you can see my slide so i'm
[01:21:05] willie from multi-photon optics and uh
[01:21:08] we are
[01:21:09] developing and two photon polymerization
[01:21:11] equipment and with this you can
[01:21:13] structure land stacks you can structure
[01:21:15] devices you can structure um lenses on
[01:21:18] devices and waveguides the practical
[01:21:20] optical elements and so on and most of
[01:21:22] the time we use the industrial reliable
[01:21:25] material class of almost sales and the
[01:21:28] applications are in the structuring of
[01:21:30] function components and in mastering
[01:21:33] there are many mastering applications
[01:21:35] out there and for example you have here
[01:21:38] in a picture of an electro plated
[01:21:41] replication to it then we have some
[01:21:42] paramedic structures replicated in a
[01:21:45] very
[01:21:46] huge area um going back to the function
[01:21:49] components so the material class of
[01:21:51] omozer has a very high optical
[01:21:53] resistivity making them ideal for
[01:21:55] functional components
[01:21:57] this test
[01:21:58] is a micro lens fabricated on a dfb
[01:22:01] laser and the optical power is at a
[01:22:03] megawatt per square centimeter and since
[01:22:06] now they are running for over two years
[01:22:08] and looks quite good that they will run
[01:22:10] on it on
[01:22:11] and the scalability of this technique is
[01:22:14] the resolution down to 100 nanometer so
[01:22:17] on the right side you see a metal lens
[01:22:19] and this consists of different pillar
[01:22:21] sizes down to 100 meter and up to 459
[01:22:25] meter
[01:22:26] and also the scan speed so we showed up
[01:22:29] to 1 000 millimeters per second which
[01:22:31] you can see on the bottom wide picture
[01:22:33] and these structures are up to in
[01:22:36] millimeter times the millimeter times
[01:22:37] the millimeter so what are the questions
[01:22:40] what can we do for you we provide an
[01:22:43] equipment and processes for advanced 3d
[01:22:45] micro fabrication and since we are part
[01:22:48] of hyderback instruments we have more
[01:22:50] technologies available like masterless
[01:22:52] uv lithography or like thermostating
[01:22:55] probe lithography machines and what can
[01:22:58] you do for us you can get us involved at
[01:23:00] an early stage in your technology
[01:23:02] program that would be really great and
[01:23:04] i'm thanking you for the possibility to
[01:23:06] talk to you
[01:23:08] hey willie what you have done and what
[01:23:11] the what ruth
[01:23:12] hoover has done in the previous years
[01:23:14] and the acquisition by color the
[01:23:16] instruments are a success beautiful
[01:23:19] story epic thank you very much for that
[01:23:22] and i also would like to understand a
[01:23:23] bit uh what kind of partners and what
[01:23:27] strategic partnerships would you be
[01:23:28] looking for from this network in essence
[01:23:30] the epic question what can you do for
[01:23:31] them what can they do for you
[01:23:34] so
[01:23:35] don't repeat what is written give us a
[01:23:37] bit more meat there are you looking for
[01:23:39] any material suppliers are you looking
[01:23:40] for some particular challenges how do
[01:23:42] you see the bio market is higher
[01:23:43] liability one target tell us
[01:23:46] yeah so right now you can give us um you
[01:23:48] can give us applications and you can
[01:23:50] give us different kind of structures for
[01:23:52] these applications to test because we
[01:23:54] have already tested a quite variety of
[01:23:57] different applications and we would we
[01:23:59] would like to go further to different
[01:24:01] application and also um what we can
[01:24:04] offer you is the synergy we have with
[01:24:06] heidelberg instruments so um yeah so we
[01:24:09] are right now making a new product
[01:24:12] okay so let's talk about applications
[01:24:14] i'm gonna come to you you give me a
[01:24:15] challenge and i will address it we have
[01:24:17] a company that is doing
[01:24:19] in vivo monitoring in the room i'm
[01:24:22] talking about the company river the
[01:24:24] diagnostics when the company river dnos
[01:24:26] is presented by ah
[01:24:29] do you know when you make this meeting's
[01:24:30] life
[01:24:31] the at the last minute when you're
[01:24:32] introducing the person his connection
[01:24:34] drops that's what just happened so
[01:24:36] liberty diagnostic is not here
[01:24:38] unfortunately maybe they will join a bit
[01:24:40] later before we give the floor to the
[01:24:42] presentation that you all are waiting
[01:24:44] for the presentation for luke's excel i
[01:24:46] want to understand a bit from the end
[01:24:48] user side what other challenges we have
[01:24:50] in the room widow groot julia medak
[01:24:52] thank you very much joining it's
[01:24:54] fantastic to have you in the room i love
[01:24:56] what you're doing i want to introduce
[01:24:58] you properly to introduce you properly
[01:25:00] i'm going to introduce two people who
[01:25:02] really told me i want to be here because
[01:25:04] looks excel is here so the first person
[01:25:07] that i want to introduce is the ceo of a
[01:25:10] company in the
[01:25:11] segment ralph noel good afternoon
[01:25:15] beautiful beautiful background the one
[01:25:16] that you have ralph er tell us why you
[01:25:18] were so excited about how it looks
[01:25:20] excellent in the room and what kind of
[01:25:22] preliminary question do you have for
[01:25:23] them
[01:25:24] yeah sure um well if it's a preliminary
[01:25:28] question um first of all um
[01:25:34] what we do is
[01:25:36] we produce eyewear for the ar industry
[01:25:40] it looks like this this is the first
[01:25:41] prototype so
[01:25:43] um it has
[01:25:44] an an outer glass and it has a
[01:25:48] lcd shutter element inside and we send
[01:25:51] sandwich these both um components
[01:25:56] and
[01:25:57] my first question would be
[01:25:59] how how many minutes would it take for
[01:26:02] you
[01:26:03] to print
[01:26:04] a lens and how much will it cost we
[01:26:08] don't answer that question yet we are
[01:26:09] going to answer it after your
[01:26:11] presentation but this is the first one
[01:26:14] because i
[01:26:15] i'm asking this question because we are
[01:26:17] doing this sandwiching thing we are
[01:26:19] buying simply triwex or polycarbonate
[01:26:23] from the usual suspects like um
[01:26:26] alcom hoya optispace etc and then we add
[01:26:30] an lcd and the lens cost is just six
[01:26:34] euros roughly speaking
[01:26:36] and then we add a shutter which is maybe
[01:26:38] 10 euros
[01:26:40] so we end up with 16 euros only per
[01:26:43] glass and we have a fully fledged
[01:26:45] anti-glare system for the end user and
[01:26:49] therefore it's very interesting to see
[01:26:52] how the competitive landscape is
[01:26:54] developing in the future and therefore
[01:26:57] this question i'm going to come back to
[01:26:58] you of course ralph with the right
[01:27:00] answer before that widow i'm so happy
[01:27:02] that you're here there is somebody else
[01:27:03] who is very excited about this we have
[01:27:05] harold pierre from the company ceno gent
[01:27:08] harold good afternoon
[01:27:10] good afternoon everybody are you so
[01:27:11] excited of having luke's excel in the
[01:27:12] room
[01:27:14] yeah yes i would like to to learn about
[01:27:16] the current status of
[01:27:18] 3d printed optics because it's an
[01:27:21] important tool for prototyping for
[01:27:23] testing
[01:27:25] maybe for mass manufacturing i think we
[01:27:27] will hear about it and cost of course
[01:27:29] that's important and also because it's
[01:27:31] uh maybe a very useful tool to tackle um
[01:27:36] the issue of light pollution in outdoor
[01:27:38] lighting because
[01:27:40] i think we need a lot more
[01:27:42] and a lot more precise
[01:27:45] tools to shape light output
[01:27:49] in outdoor to avoid
[01:27:51] sending light to locations where it
[01:27:53] shouldn't go especially towards the sky
[01:27:56] and
[01:27:57] i wonder what
[01:28:00] 3d printed individualized optics can do
[01:28:02] or even micro optics can help and
[01:28:04] support in
[01:28:06] bet in in getting better cut offs better
[01:28:09] shaping of light we have in the room
[01:28:11] companies like renault companies like
[01:28:13] leica like shot we are all really
[01:28:16] excited i had the honor and pleasure to
[01:28:18] introduce a success story in europe
[01:28:20] right now a company that switched their
[01:28:22] business line to towards of talmik
[01:28:25] lenses with a truly belief that often
[01:28:27] can be printed on site and now they're
[01:28:29] looking for partnerships to bring
[01:28:31] additional intelligence all the way to
[01:28:33] arvr they are already the only producers
[01:28:36] in the world in the world of customers
[01:28:39] of termini lenses that can actually do
[01:28:41] at the same time augmented reality i had
[01:28:44] the honor to introduce a person that i
[01:28:46] know already for many years who i met
[01:28:48] with the group the floor and the
[01:28:50] attention of everyone i'm so excited to
[01:28:52] say this goes to looks excel
[01:28:55] [Music]
[01:28:57] it's a pleasure talking to you again
[01:28:59] we've known each other for years so
[01:29:01] i have prepared a few slides
[01:29:04] that will answer some of your questions
[01:29:06] the first thing i'm going to see you was
[01:29:07] like a decade ago i saw the laboratories
[01:29:09] the printer they are in ghost things
[01:29:11] have moved so so much and so fast in the
[01:29:14] last years i love when great things
[01:29:16] happen to great people the floor is
[01:29:17] yours
[01:29:19] okay thank you
[01:29:21] so maybe for people who do not know us
[01:29:24] we
[01:29:24] we are a dutch company and we have
[01:29:27] developed over many years the technology
[01:29:29] to 3d print lenses
[01:29:30] and
[01:29:32] as you might know we started off
[01:29:34] by printing all types of different
[01:29:36] lenses
[01:29:37] and
[01:29:38] over the years we've really focused on
[01:29:40] ophthalmic lenses and why ophthalmic
[01:29:43] lenses
[01:29:44] and well the main reason is it's huge
[01:29:46] markets right three out of four people
[01:29:48] need to wear prescription and you can
[01:29:50] see it in every all the participants
[01:29:52] here it's about the three out of four
[01:29:54] people need prescription and secondly
[01:29:56] all of these lenses are different which
[01:29:58] is of course great for 3d printing
[01:30:00] because that's what we do right we can
[01:30:02] make volume products
[01:30:04] individually customized and so um
[01:30:09] our focus today is um
[01:30:12] of course prescription lenses but we
[01:30:14] also found that we have something unique
[01:30:16] to offer to the smart highway space
[01:30:18] which is what our sweet spot is today
[01:30:20] we have
[01:30:21] partnerships with pretty much every big
[01:30:24] tech company that is looking at smart
[01:30:26] classes
[01:30:28] and all of them rely on our technology
[01:30:31] uh to make those smart classes with
[01:30:33] prescription and coming to your comment
[01:30:35] from earlier wealth i'll explain you why
[01:30:37] it makes sense to use our technology to
[01:30:40] do that
[01:30:41] so the first question everybody asked us
[01:30:43] so why do you want to 3d print a lens
[01:30:45] well there's many many reasons but if
[01:30:48] you put them all in buckets i think
[01:30:50] there's two main reasons the first one
[01:30:52] is
[01:30:53] with our technology you can make smart
[01:30:55] lenses look like smart glasses i should
[01:30:58] say look like normal glasses so we all
[01:31:00] know the smart irish space everybody
[01:31:03] used to wear helmets
[01:31:04] well we're not in the helmet business
[01:31:06] we're in the eyewear business so with
[01:31:08] our technology you can actually make
[01:31:10] these smart glasses look like normal
[01:31:12] blouses because we make them thin
[01:31:14] light with prescription and fully
[01:31:16] integrated so that's a major benefit of
[01:31:18] our technology
[01:31:20] and the second point is it's a lot
[01:31:22] simpler to 3d print the lens than to use
[01:31:24] traditional lens manufacturing
[01:31:26] technologies i know there's a lot of
[01:31:28] people here who are very familiar with
[01:31:30] traditional lensmaking technologies but
[01:31:32] to make traditional eyewear lenses takes
[01:31:35] about 30 plus process steps that goes
[01:31:37] from injection molding to
[01:31:40] to cnc
[01:31:41] polishing blocking edging i mean you can
[01:31:44] name it there's so many process steps
[01:31:46] it's a very complex process with long
[01:31:49] supply chains and a lot of inventory and
[01:31:52] with our technology you print the lens
[01:31:54] and it's ready when it comes out of the
[01:31:55] printer so
[01:31:57] the two main reasons print lenses is you
[01:31:59] can make thin light fully integrated
[01:32:02] prescription lenses and you can do it
[01:32:05] with one processor
[01:32:07] um
[01:32:08] how do you 3d print the lens
[01:32:10] well
[01:32:11] i simplified it here
[01:32:13] so basically we start with a bottle of
[01:32:15] ink
[01:32:16] the machine makes tiny little droplets
[01:32:18] very very small in pico liter range
[01:32:21] we deposit them exactly where they are
[01:32:23] needed and then we cure them in place
[01:32:26] and we don't cure them fully we
[01:32:27] partially cure them so that they
[01:32:28] integrate with the other droplets so
[01:32:30] that you get a fully transparent lens
[01:32:32] that does not require any polishing
[01:32:35] and
[01:32:36] is ready to be used once it comes out of
[01:32:37] the printer
[01:32:39] um yeah in a nutshell that's what we do
[01:32:42] we make very small droplets
[01:32:44] [Music]
[01:32:46] so
[01:32:48] the reason we're so precise is we use
[01:32:50] very very small droplets the reason we
[01:32:53] achieve
[01:32:54] high speed
[01:32:55] and coming to your point ralph how long
[01:32:57] does it take well to print a batch of
[01:33:00] lenses takes about depending on the
[01:33:01] prescription and some more variables but
[01:33:03] roughly between half an hour and an hour
[01:33:05] to print the batch of lenses so it goes
[01:33:08] very fast for 3d printing and that is
[01:33:10] because we massively parallel deposit
[01:33:13] these droplets
[01:33:15] the other thing that's
[01:33:17] great about the technology it's because
[01:33:18] we use droplets we let them flow you can
[01:33:21] imagine that it become perfectly smooth
[01:33:23] so we achieve a service roughness and
[01:33:25] the five nanometer range so it's very
[01:33:28] smooth without any polishing
[01:33:30] which
[01:33:31] is a great benefit not only because it
[01:33:33] simplifies things but also because it
[01:33:35] doesn't damage
[01:33:36] for example
[01:33:38] a smart device that you integrate into a
[01:33:39] lens because there's no force of light
[01:33:42] um
[01:33:43] and also because we use these droplets
[01:33:45] and we don't we do this at um close
[01:33:48] route to room temperature there's also
[01:33:50] no
[01:33:51] no no stress applied to the lens and so
[01:33:54] um it's it's a very usable end straight
[01:33:56] out of the printer
[01:33:58] we are compatible our technology our
[01:33:59] material is compatible with all kind of
[01:34:01] industry coating processes but we can
[01:34:03] even print
[01:34:05] coatings
[01:34:07] we can make of course all the usual
[01:34:09] shapes and many others with our
[01:34:11] technology because we build the shape as
[01:34:13] we go
[01:34:14] and we have a
[01:34:15] family of materials that we that apply
[01:34:17] to different applications
[01:34:21] how do you integrate smart devices well
[01:34:23] what we do is we print the front with
[01:34:25] the power back with the right optical
[01:34:27] powers we can even create air gaps if
[01:34:30] the application requires an air gap or
[01:34:33] we can print straight on the on the wave
[01:34:35] guide if that is possible
[01:34:38] we can print the mountings for the light
[01:34:39] engine and so we can provide the fully
[01:34:42] integrated device
[01:34:44] straight out of the printer ready to be
[01:34:47] uh to click the the light engine on
[01:34:49] uh which is really our biggest benefit
[01:34:52] our biggest benefit is um
[01:34:54] that is really that with our technology
[01:34:56] you can make a thin
[01:34:58] lightweight small device ready to be
[01:35:00] used without any stress with the
[01:35:02] mounting attached and what you get from
[01:35:05] that
[01:35:06] are for example here are examples of
[01:35:08] waveguides we have integrated on the
[01:35:10] left top
[01:35:11] you see a waveguide from wave optics
[01:35:13] that we have integrated you see the
[01:35:15] waveguide sitting in the middle you see
[01:35:16] it printed the mounting for the
[01:35:18] projector to click on this one actually
[01:35:20] has a prescription of minus one diopters
[01:35:23] and plus one diopters on the front
[01:35:25] and you can see how we create a device
[01:35:27] and that you see the bottom right corner
[01:35:29] that you can click straight into a frame
[01:35:32] and it's a very lightweight
[01:35:34] the thinnest
[01:35:35] the back side of the waveguide for
[01:35:37] example we can print at 550 microns
[01:35:39] thickness which with traditional lens
[01:35:41] technology if you glue them together you
[01:35:43] will not be able to achieve 50 micron
[01:35:45] thickness
[01:35:46] on the left bottom you see another
[01:35:48] waveguide from lumos which is a
[01:35:49] reflective waveguide that we've
[01:35:51] integrated
[01:35:52] you can see how we kept the entry pupil
[01:35:55] the entry prism free of any um deposits
[01:35:58] uh we can also print all kind of other
[01:36:01] shapes of course like these micro lenses
[01:36:03] that you should you see on the right top
[01:36:06] so
[01:36:07] with our technology you can really
[01:36:09] integrate anything you like into a lens
[01:36:11] which is of course a great benefit for
[01:36:13] smart ira
[01:36:17] so
[01:36:17] our technology is really a turnkey
[01:36:19] solution it's one printer and materials
[01:36:21] and software that comes with it to bring
[01:36:23] together the process
[01:36:26] we work like i mentioned earlier with
[01:36:28] all the big tech companies that are
[01:36:29] looking to make smart classes we have
[01:36:31] customers that produce this in volume
[01:36:34] with our technology
[01:36:35] so it's a proven volume technology
[01:36:38] it's certified which for ophthalmic lens
[01:36:40] is of course an important aspect and we
[01:36:43] can integrate of pretty much anything
[01:36:45] you guys can come up with but maybe i
[01:36:47] shouldn't say it in this audience
[01:36:49] because i'm sure you guys can come up
[01:36:50] with something that
[01:36:52] offers additional challenges
[01:36:54] and uh yeah as far as we know we're the
[01:36:56] only ones able to do it in the in this
[01:36:58] way
[01:37:00] like like you were saying earlier you
[01:37:01] can of course glue together
[01:37:02] traditionally manufactured lenses
[01:37:04] absolutely that's possible but i believe
[01:37:06] you cannot achieve the same thickness
[01:37:08] and weight and integration that you can
[01:37:10] do with our technology
[01:37:12] that's in a nutshell what i wanted to
[01:37:14] tell you guys and
[01:37:15] i'll be happy to take uh take your
[01:37:17] questions
[01:37:19] from the bottom of my heart
[01:37:21] congratulations
[01:37:23] congratulations this is a success story
[01:37:25] in europe and you have been for many
[01:37:28] years interacting with many companies to
[01:37:31] make it happen today you have the
[01:37:34] services and through very strategic
[01:37:36] cooperations
[01:37:37] you have actually managed to reach some
[01:37:39] of the markets some of these strategic
[01:37:40] corporations are actually public uh so i
[01:37:44] i don't know you want to mention some of
[01:37:46] them it's a strategic operation that you
[01:37:47] are
[01:37:48] exchanging to address this huge market
[01:37:51] which is of thermology well i cannot
[01:37:53] disclose the names for our customers um
[01:37:57] these are the big let me just say these
[01:37:59] are you're all familiar with the names
[01:38:01] and they're all the big tech companies
[01:38:02] working in smart eyewear
[01:38:04] and they're at the same time extremely
[01:38:06] secretive and they um ask us your child
[01:38:09] in uh
[01:38:10] as a security not just disclose their
[01:38:12] name so we cannot disclose the names of
[01:38:14] our customers
[01:38:15] however
[01:38:16] on the supply side we work together with
[01:38:19] a number of wave guides companies and
[01:38:22] other companies that work in this space
[01:38:26] the only customers you're right because
[01:38:28] the only customer can disclose is up
[01:38:29] this way
[01:38:30] absolutely sorry you're absolutely right
[01:38:33] and the optivist is of course an
[01:38:34] opthalmic lab in switzerland that we
[01:38:36] work with
[01:38:37] and they use our technology to actually
[01:38:40] help some of our customers with
[01:38:43] prescription smart lenses
[01:38:45] we have a lot of discussion to do with
[01:38:47] you in the next 20 minutes so please be
[01:38:50] ready let me start there's a company in
[01:38:52] the room that is in stealth mode and
[01:38:53] they asked me to read the question for
[01:38:55] them
[01:38:56] so without what is the maximum
[01:38:58] resolution you can print that and can
[01:39:00] you print blazed gratings on a what
[01:39:04] scale
[01:39:05] okay
[01:39:07] that's a very specific question so
[01:39:11] we can print very small features um
[01:39:14] we have an application today for a
[01:39:16] customer that needs very small
[01:39:19] like i say can i say dots on top of a
[01:39:21] lens and they can be in the nano in the
[01:39:24] 20 30 nanometer range so that's the
[01:39:27] smallest we can go and still achieve a
[01:39:29] good um
[01:39:30] a good optical quality
[01:39:32] um
[01:39:34] we
[01:39:35] can print all kind of different features
[01:39:38] of course with this technology
[01:39:40] we
[01:39:42] our strength of course is to make lenses
[01:39:44] that are bigger and look like ophthalmic
[01:39:46] lenses our goal is not to make the
[01:39:48] smallest possible lens our goal is
[01:39:50] really to make
[01:39:52] um ophthalmic prescription lenses and
[01:39:55] integrate smart devices into them
[01:39:58] um i you you well i will discuss this
[01:40:02] with him later on late but i i want to
[01:40:05] understand a bit uh you are doing only
[01:40:07] of tamology or are you considering
[01:40:10] perhaps to to open up a new area of
[01:40:13] activities
[01:40:15] we can print any lens well not any lens
[01:40:17] we can print many different types of
[01:40:18] lenses
[01:40:20] and we have customers actually that also
[01:40:22] want to use our technology for example
[01:40:23] for camera lenses and we can absolutely
[01:40:25] do that
[01:40:27] we try to be a little bit selective in
[01:40:29] which things we print because in our
[01:40:31] experience
[01:40:32] um
[01:40:33] every application has a different
[01:40:35] challenge
[01:40:36] and we try we try to be very
[01:40:39] we see that smart we believe smart
[01:40:41] eyewear is going to be a major major
[01:40:43] application of
[01:40:45] of lenses and of photonics if you like
[01:40:47] so therefore we want to be successful in
[01:40:49] smart eyewear but of course we can print
[01:40:52] any type of lens
[01:40:53] however like i said you know we are not
[01:40:56] at the level that we can take on 10
[01:40:58] different projects we're not a mega
[01:41:00] company at this time at this time so we
[01:41:02] want to be successful in smart eyewear
[01:41:04] for now
[01:41:06] even though we sometimes take on little
[01:41:07] side projects before a in the early part
[01:41:10] of the meeting we wanted to address a
[01:41:12] topic we didn't address very well yet
[01:41:14] and it's a topic of testing and in in
[01:41:17] the markets that you are targeting very
[01:41:19] often you have to go to high volume
[01:41:21] production we have in the room somebody
[01:41:23] from the company nts octel
[01:41:25] frank are you with us
[01:41:28] frank ernst yes i'm here yes so we just
[01:41:31] heard that they are targeting they are
[01:41:32] very selective they on the applications
[01:41:34] they are targeting because they have to
[01:41:36] enable high volume production uh what
[01:41:39] you bring to a table and also we do what
[01:41:41] is
[01:41:42] the activities that you do
[01:41:44] for the volume testing so first frank
[01:41:46] and widow
[01:41:48] um
[01:41:50] well we build testers let me maybe
[01:41:54] share my screen
[01:41:56] yes please go ahead
[01:41:59] let me see if i can find it that way
[01:42:03] i like the epic member so who's ready to
[01:42:05] share the screen like
[01:42:07] this no this wasn't prepared widow he
[01:42:09] wasn't expected to talk and now he's
[01:42:10] gonna
[01:42:12] share what they do can you see my screen
[01:42:15] crystal clear go to slideshow mode so
[01:42:16] you can see it even bigger yeah but i'm
[01:42:19] maybe loose then
[01:42:21] did i share the screen
[01:42:25] okay go ahead it's fine yeah so what we
[01:42:28] basically do is
[01:42:30] the meta lenses doughies or anything
[01:42:35] on a wafer
[01:42:37] yeah we can basically test the tester of
[01:42:40] course in details is very complicated in
[01:42:43] basic structure it's actually very
[01:42:45] simple
[01:42:46] so it's an xy stage that
[01:42:48] basically positions every uh
[01:42:51] lens or or doei or whatever
[01:42:54] on the right position for uh for the
[01:42:56] laser this is a
[01:42:58] very specific
[01:42:59] designed laser
[01:43:00] uh
[01:43:01] basically for every specific uh
[01:43:05] meter lens so the wavelength but also
[01:43:07] the beam shape
[01:43:09] collimated not collimated etc is all
[01:43:12] adapted to the specific needs of that
[01:43:15] metastructure from there of course the
[01:43:17] metastructure
[01:43:19] makes its pattern
[01:43:22] if it's a doughy of course multiple
[01:43:24] beams
[01:43:25] we use a projection screen
[01:43:28] to
[01:43:29] basically use it as an integrator make
[01:43:31] an image of it
[01:43:32] and
[01:43:34] process this image according the quality
[01:43:37] of quality requirements of the of the
[01:43:39] customer and then you basically get a uh
[01:43:42] a a good good or not good
[01:43:45] product of course it's a little bit more
[01:43:47] complicated than that but that's
[01:43:49] basically what what we do
[01:43:51] we do this for passive elements like
[01:43:54] here but we actually also do it for
[01:43:56] active elements for instance
[01:43:59] projectors that are in the augmented
[01:44:01] reality cameras they also have these
[01:44:04] these
[01:44:10] number of beams that needs to be tested
[01:44:12] [Music]
[01:44:14] basically individually
[01:44:17] so we also do this for the active
[01:44:18] elements and then of course instead of
[01:44:19] the laser we have an electrical
[01:44:21] connection to to that active element
[01:44:25] so yeah we basically do a lot of these
[01:44:27] these things we have
[01:44:28] yeah
[01:44:30] i think more than 30 of these machines
[01:44:32] out and basically shipping them
[01:44:35] on a kind of a regular basis for
[01:44:38] a lot of big big customers
[01:44:41] and that was great
[01:44:44] because i want to go now to widow
[01:44:46] and with a hoisted current status on the
[01:44:50] volume testing i know you cannot share
[01:44:51] everything i don't expect you to share
[01:44:53] everything with us but is there
[01:44:55] especially an edc you are open to target
[01:44:57] new applications on doing the volume
[01:44:59] testing
[01:45:01] well
[01:45:02] um i should know today
[01:45:05] the smart there are no real smart
[01:45:07] consumer smart glasses on the market
[01:45:09] today i mean everybody's trying and you
[01:45:12] know i don't consider the microsoft
[01:45:14] hololens consumer product since i don't
[01:45:16] see anybody here wearing it so
[01:45:19] i guess there are still some issues
[01:45:22] as you know a lot of these people are
[01:45:24] working on introducing these products to
[01:45:25] market and we all know the big names and
[01:45:28] i expect that towards them next year
[01:45:30] probably the end of next year and the
[01:45:31] year after we'll see the first products
[01:45:33] introduced and then the volume
[01:45:35] manufacturing starts so we're setting up
[01:45:37] production lines for a number of these
[01:45:38] customers
[01:45:40] and we will there also be
[01:45:42] [Music]
[01:45:43] of course quality checking for now we
[01:45:46] test the quality the same way we test
[01:45:47] the quality as in ophthalmic industry
[01:45:50] meaning we checked for optical power we
[01:45:52] lens map
[01:45:53] and currently uh there's a number of
[01:45:55] companies out there that have a
[01:45:56] measurement equipment for that
[01:45:58] i assume that at some point in this
[01:46:00] process there's going to be a need also
[01:46:02] to check whether the integrated wave
[01:46:04] guide still performs as it should
[01:46:06] we have not reached that stage yet but
[01:46:08] i'm sure there's going to be a moment
[01:46:09] where we need to set in line with our
[01:46:12] production lines also wave guide testing
[01:46:14] even though that's not necessarily our
[01:46:15] competence
[01:46:17] all right widow we have one more
[01:46:18] question in the room for you and this
[01:46:19] one you already know is coming from
[01:46:21] harald pierre from cenogen harald what's
[01:46:23] on your mind
[01:46:27] yes
[01:46:28] yes so i was uh wondering whether
[01:46:32] you could print on non-planar services
[01:46:34] as well
[01:46:36] and what are the limitations there
[01:46:38] with respect uh
[01:46:40] for example aspect ratio
[01:46:43] trenches and so on
[01:46:45] how do you kill that
[01:46:46] so first of all yes we can print on
[01:46:48] non-planar services
[01:46:51] in the smart ios space today
[01:46:54] the most demands we get for planar
[01:46:56] surfaces because wave guides typically
[01:46:58] tend to be flat at least quality wave
[01:47:00] guides tend to be flat
[01:47:01] we can print on non-planar surfaces
[01:47:05] where of course we need to um there's
[01:47:08] not really
[01:47:10] um
[01:47:11] a problem in the aspect ratio typically
[01:47:14] those lenses tend to be curved we
[01:47:16] typically do not like to throw the
[01:47:18] droplets
[01:47:19] at too big of a distance because it
[01:47:21] becomes unpredictable
[01:47:24] so
[01:47:25] it depends a little bit on the diameter
[01:47:27] of course of the lens because that of
[01:47:29] course determines how big the
[01:47:31] the flight
[01:47:32] the flight of the droplet is but we can
[01:47:35] print on normal curved surfaces you know
[01:47:39] in regular prescriptions so that's not
[01:47:41] an issue in itself
[01:47:43] um
[01:47:44] the only thing that often we need to
[01:47:46] tune a little bit is if you want very
[01:47:49] sharp
[01:47:50] points or very
[01:47:52] sharp trenches you know with a sharp in
[01:47:55] the trench because of course we use
[01:47:56] droplets so you need to we need to tune
[01:47:59] the process a little bit to achieve the
[01:48:01] right
[01:48:02] pointiness if you like of the structures
[01:48:04] that's something we typically need to
[01:48:07] work on a little bit
[01:48:08] yeah we know there is of course one
[01:48:11] slide that i really need you to see
[01:48:12] because in epic we have a company who is
[01:48:14] developing an entire roadmap to
[01:48:17] add a new technology to the arvr market
[01:48:19] i'm of course talking about inop tech
[01:48:21] this is a clear partnership the two you
[01:48:23] have to work together please do it for
[01:48:24] me draft please show us a slide and see
[01:48:27] how we can bring together this beautiful
[01:48:29] puzzle
[01:48:30] yeah thanks a lot uh jose and
[01:48:33] congratulations to you uh hido um well
[01:48:36] done i i like your technology very much
[01:48:38] and uh maybe in the future we can
[01:48:41] cooperate in certain areas maybe not in
[01:48:43] all areas because we have also um a
[01:48:46] coverage for six diopter and beyond so
[01:48:50] we are talking about really steep um
[01:48:53] lenses and curved lenses like curvature
[01:48:55] six which is a requirement from
[01:48:58] um
[01:48:59] the sports industry and um even military
[01:49:02] etc
[01:49:03] and i know from your colleagues they
[01:49:06] told me that this may be a little bit
[01:49:08] difficult to make steeper curves because
[01:49:10] you're using droplets so i don't know
[01:49:14] let's see i i would like to share
[01:49:15] quickly a slide just to show you what we
[01:49:18] are doing um i already showed these
[01:49:20] glasses you see there's a standard glass
[01:49:23] in front and there's a shutter glass
[01:49:25] inside and we stack them let me quickly
[01:49:28] share the screen then it becomes
[01:49:31] instantly clear
[01:49:34] i put this on
[01:49:36] full screen
[01:49:38] i hope you can see it crystal clear
[01:49:41] this was the initial idea to
[01:49:44] use a very much curved small teeth glass
[01:49:48] this is here from uvex
[01:49:50] famous company
[01:49:52] and we
[01:49:53] thought about how would it be if we
[01:49:56] implement lcd shutters
[01:49:58] and instead of the lcd shutter it could
[01:50:00] be also
[01:50:01] a waveguide for augmented reality it
[01:50:04] doesn't matter so it's in any case a
[01:50:06] flat device
[01:50:08] and our requirement which were given to
[01:50:11] us by the sports industry even by
[01:50:14] military was to say look we need
[01:50:16] peripheral vision of more than 60
[01:50:19] degrees so we are talking about
[01:50:21] a field of view
[01:50:23] greater than
[01:50:24] 120 degrees
[01:50:26] and here in this solidworks um
[01:50:30] diagram we actually calculated that it
[01:50:33] is possible to combine the lcd or the
[01:50:37] augmented reality
[01:50:39] display doesn't matter this is here
[01:50:42] where the mouse is it's a flat device we
[01:50:45] tilted it a little bit like 15 degrees
[01:50:47] so that we can incorporate this flat
[01:50:50] thing into a sexy fashionable roundish
[01:50:54] design and here you can see the outer
[01:50:57] glass and that could be any diopter
[01:51:01] um it could be neutral like plano or
[01:51:04] could be minus plus minus six um diopter
[01:51:08] it doesn't matter and for us it was
[01:51:11] extremely important to address the
[01:51:14] fashion aspect because we really wanted
[01:51:17] to have a as i already said a roundish
[01:51:19] sexy device and um of course there is a
[01:51:23] little gap you can see it here but this
[01:51:25] is only a few millimeters and we can
[01:51:27] seal it so that there is no dust in
[01:51:30] between and this um we call a sandwich
[01:51:34] structure we we can employ even huge
[01:51:37] batteries and it's all light tight light
[01:51:40] tight is another big topic and now this
[01:51:42] is
[01:51:43] our latest design so light tide is
[01:51:46] another thing to ensure the best
[01:51:49] visibility um and and therefore we
[01:51:52] decided to have this um beautiful um
[01:51:55] curved design
[01:51:57] so um my my to to put it in the question
[01:52:00] now um what do you think what is your
[01:52:02] first impression is that something also
[01:52:04] you you might be interested in
[01:52:07] well if i understand correctly ralph
[01:52:09] your wave guide is flat correct
[01:52:12] um yes um they're usually delivered flat
[01:52:15] and also the fastest lcd shutters are
[01:52:18] usually also flat yeah so for us it's no
[01:52:20] problem integrating them in the lens and
[01:52:22] print
[01:52:23] the powers that you need with it
[01:52:29] we can we we print optical powers many
[01:52:32] different types of optical powers we can
[01:52:34] align the optical center because in this
[01:52:36] case i think you'll have a slightly
[01:52:38] known standard optical design because of
[01:52:40] course people will be looking not
[01:52:42] straight through the center center of
[01:52:44] the lens right situation oh yeah we have
[01:52:46] to spoke um mathematics to recalculate
[01:52:49] the diopter if you have a for example uh
[01:52:51] 2d after but you shift the lens 5
[01:52:54] millimeters to the front and it's
[01:52:55] suddenly 1.8 or 1.2 or something so we
[01:52:59] recalculate the values that is correct
[01:53:01] um but we thought maybe i i can put this
[01:53:04] into a question um
[01:53:06] can you ar code your lenses under
[01:53:10] whatever 10 to the minus eight nine bars
[01:53:13] um and and how do you do the anti
[01:53:16] scratch and how do you do the curvature
[01:53:18] six this is
[01:53:19] maybe um where we have different systems
[01:53:22] i don't know i'm just speculating here a
[01:53:25] little bit um
[01:53:27] so so maybe there are two routes here
[01:53:29] right
[01:53:30] well
[01:53:31] okay let me try answering all your
[01:53:33] questions in a row here as many
[01:53:34] questions in your
[01:53:36] statement here so
[01:53:38] yes our lenses can be ar coated we
[01:53:40] cannot print the ar coating because of
[01:53:42] the thickness at the moment we're
[01:53:44] working on it we're not there yet so ar
[01:53:46] coating we use traditional vacuum or
[01:53:48] sputtering solutions and there we go
[01:53:50] thereby we apply air coatings how do we
[01:53:53] apply the anti-scratch coating we can
[01:53:54] either use traditional industry
[01:53:56] processes or we can even print it so we
[01:53:58] can print down to scratch coating so
[01:54:01] typically what we do is we print the
[01:54:02] lens
[01:54:03] we print the anti-scratch coating and
[01:54:05] all the other tins or filters that you
[01:54:07] need we can print those too and then we
[01:54:09] send it off to a vacuum ar coated
[01:54:12] somewhere
[01:54:13] um
[01:54:14] our lenses are very resistant to
[01:54:16] pressure i think it's more question can
[01:54:18] your the device that you put inside
[01:54:20] resist the pressure and of course our
[01:54:23] lens protects the device but i can
[01:54:25] imagine if the force becomes too big you
[01:54:27] might damage the device that's inside
[01:54:29] but our material is perfectly resistant
[01:54:31] to pressure to force all those things so
[01:54:35] yeah i don't see i don't see any major
[01:54:37] issues and yes we can print more than
[01:54:38] plus six diopters
[01:54:40] wow interesting i want to ask a couple
[01:54:43] of final questions to you and to the
[01:54:45] other speakers but before that we though
[01:54:47] there is a company that i want you to
[01:54:49] meet the company is called print optics
[01:54:51] we have a company here niels farbach who
[01:54:53] is offering already services or 3d
[01:54:56] printing of micro optics in europe and i
[01:54:58] think there could be some room for
[01:54:59] cooperation to add your technology to
[01:55:01] these services nils tell us a bit of
[01:55:03] print optics what do you do
[01:55:05] hi uh thank you jose
[01:55:07] um
[01:55:08] yeah well actually
[01:55:11] one of the first speakers uh martin
[01:55:13] herman schweiler we're using his
[01:55:14] machines so we're
[01:55:17] just using nanoscribe machines and
[01:55:19] offering the whole service behind that
[01:55:21] so if you don't want to
[01:55:23] get into all the parameters that are
[01:55:25] needed to actually print really high
[01:55:28] quality
[01:55:29] complex micro optics then we can do that
[01:55:33] we have
[01:55:34] researched this topic for over seven
[01:55:36] years now
[01:55:38] and we have extensive expertise
[01:55:40] especially in highly complex micro
[01:55:43] optics so on a scale from 10 microns up
[01:55:46] to two millimeters
[01:55:47] multi-length systems tilted systems uh
[01:55:51] deeply into the freeform optics
[01:55:55] i've prepared this uh this one slider
[01:55:57] let me just share my screen please show
[01:55:59] it and i want to go to widow and to the
[01:56:01] others to see if there is an interest in
[01:56:04] offering your technology as 3d printing
[01:56:06] manufacturers as a service to companies
[01:56:10] who could actually address more
[01:56:11] customers in the prototyping phase nils
[01:56:14] show us
[01:56:15] uh
[01:56:16] can you see my screen already yes this
[01:56:18] is pd yes go slide show more so you can
[01:56:20] see it bigger
[01:56:21] so i i think you can see it in
[01:56:23] presentation mode now yes you have to
[01:56:24] switch and uh
[01:56:27] yes switch the display and say hey
[01:56:33] okay can you can you see you're sharing
[01:56:34] the wrong screen with us you're sharing
[01:56:36] the other screen so you're going to
[01:56:37] display settings
[01:56:40] let me switch the screens in place
[01:56:42] settings so the other one very good
[01:56:44] so now you should see it
[01:56:46] so yeah what what we actually do um is
[01:56:49] we started the optical design the the
[01:56:51] wave optical simulation if necessary so
[01:56:53] um we actually we incorporate the
[01:56:57] advantages and the possibilities of 3d
[01:56:59] printing our optics already in the
[01:57:01] design because there is some
[01:57:03] some specs the typical optic designer
[01:57:05] would never even think of in designing
[01:57:08] their optics and we already incorporate
[01:57:10] that into our design then we have the
[01:57:12] structural design and there goes a lot
[01:57:15] into that because we have developed some
[01:57:17] steps for post processing like
[01:57:19] we can get apertures and mirrors and
[01:57:22] stuff like that into the systems at as
[01:57:25] far in the sub millimeter
[01:57:27] scale
[01:57:29] or for example the system you see on the
[01:57:31] bottom right
[01:57:32] that's just not possible to manufacture
[01:57:35] in any other way
[01:57:37] so
[01:57:39] looking at the previous discussion i'm
[01:57:41] also very much team polymer
[01:57:44] because uh just the degrees of freedom
[01:57:47] we have and the little shrinkage that's
[01:57:48] just awesome and uh yeah we we can we
[01:57:52] can
[01:57:53] offer the whole process from start to
[01:57:55] finish we can measure the optics and
[01:57:57] supply you with for example
[01:57:59] optics directly on chips on fibers on
[01:58:02] just glass substrates on the wafers all
[01:58:04] that so that's what we do and to answer
[01:58:08] the typical two questions in this round
[01:58:10] what we can do for you is
[01:58:13] we can take your ideas and make real
[01:58:16] systems out of your ideas we just need
[01:58:18] the specs you want to have and we do all
[01:58:20] the rest
[01:58:21] and what you can do for us we are
[01:58:24] actively looking for partners especially
[01:58:26] in medical technology and the optical
[01:58:28] chip communication fiber communication
[01:58:31] technologies to develop cool new
[01:58:33] products and get our technology into
[01:58:36] your product roadmap in the early stages
[01:58:40] and i think we could help each other out
[01:58:42] in in pretty cool ways
[01:58:44] you are already having a successful
[01:58:45] collaboration with nanoscribe i would
[01:58:47] really like to see there is a potential
[01:58:48] cooperation with others but we do i want
[01:58:51] you to discuss this of course not in
[01:58:52] public we have another company in the
[01:58:54] room that is the first time they come to
[01:58:56] an epic meeting and i would like to give
[01:58:58] them the last word of the meeting i'm
[01:59:00] obviously talking about the company that
[01:59:02] is in the end user side buckler bryce
[01:59:05] touring kane as a spectator he wanted to
[01:59:07] learn a listing about 3d printed optics
[01:59:10] price we've been talking about 3d
[01:59:11] printed optics for two hours as an end
[01:59:13] user in the process industry
[01:59:16] what is your take
[01:59:18] maybe you have some questions suggest
[01:59:20] your room for cooperation with any of
[01:59:21] the participants today
[01:59:24] good afternoon thank you for let me talk
[01:59:27] yeah i was more joining this meeting to
[01:59:30] for curiosity at first um
[01:59:32] we are mostly interesting into
[01:59:35] the
[01:59:36] uh kind of lighting application and
[01:59:38] freeform optics in lighting applications
[01:59:41] and so relatively large optics
[01:59:44] and
[01:59:45] so and we are not like large volume
[01:59:48] manufacturing companies so we would like
[01:59:51] the the 3d printing aspect was is
[01:59:54] interesting for us in terms of
[01:59:57] rapid prototyping or uh
[01:59:59] eventually illuminations instead of
[02:00:02] going to
[02:00:03] have a tool made for molded optics and
[02:00:06] so that's something i was quite
[02:00:08] interesting to see if they were already
[02:00:10] technology available for for this type
[02:00:12] of hot speed prototyping for
[02:00:14] illumination application mostly bryce
[02:00:17] thank you very much for being here and
[02:00:18] it is five o'clock so you want to go to
[02:00:20] widow for the final comment uh with as
[02:00:23] you can see in epic we have the entire
[02:00:24] supply chain to add further
[02:00:26] functionality for looks excel
[02:00:28] illuminate us tell us
[02:00:30] what is the next big thing coming in
[02:00:34] looks excel
[02:00:35] the next what the next
[02:00:37] the next big thing the next the next
[02:00:39] growth heading
[02:00:40] well um
[02:00:42] [Music]
[02:00:43] for now what we want to do is we want to
[02:00:45] help our customers bring smart
[02:00:47] prescriptions smart eyewear to market
[02:00:50] and that is what we're focused on very
[02:00:52] much and we think
[02:00:54] we think smart eyewear is going to
[02:00:56] change the world
[02:00:58] we think the whole
[02:00:59] everybody now has a phone in this pocket
[02:01:01] i think you're alpha we're on the same
[02:01:03] page
[02:01:05] so we think that everybody who has a
[02:01:07] phone in his pockets will be wearing
[02:01:08] smart glasses because what's the point
[02:01:10] of walking around with the phone in your
[02:01:12] hand if you have a glass in your head
[02:01:14] so we think smart eyewear is going to
[02:01:16] change the world exactly i see everybody
[02:01:18] agrees with me here
[02:01:19] and
[02:01:20] therefore we need to add prescription we
[02:01:22] need to make them look
[02:01:24] make comfortable thin smart light and
[02:01:27] most importantly fashionable and that's
[02:01:29] where
[02:01:30] we want to help our customers do that
[02:01:32] and we know that there's a lot of
[02:01:34] interest from all the big tech companies
[02:01:36] in this space and we know that pretty
[02:01:38] much every big tech company has this
[02:01:42] vision
[02:01:43] and so look at for example
[02:01:45] mata for example we changed their name
[02:01:47] from facebook to meta to make to make
[02:01:49] clear what their objective is and
[02:01:51] they're not the only ones we think smart
[02:01:54] eyewear is going to be the biggest
[02:01:55] change
[02:01:56] in computing that we have seen in the
[02:01:59] past since the internet came along
[02:02:00] probably i should say
[02:02:03] and uh so therefore we want to be a part
[02:02:05] of it we're going to help our customers
[02:02:06] do that and that's going to be a major
[02:02:07] thing and it will change the photonics
[02:02:09] industry we started meeting at 3 o'clock
[02:02:11] we finished at 5 o'clock we start to
[02:02:13] finish some time we started with micro
[02:02:14] optics we finished with large chop this
[02:02:16] quad a fantastic couple of hours i hope
[02:02:19] you had as much fun and also as much
[02:02:22] lead generation as i did until the next
[02:02:24] time thank you very much this was joseph
[02:02:26] on behalf of the european photonic
[02:02:28] industry consortium
[02:02:30] and that concludes the public part of
[02:02:33] today's meeting if you are in our zoom
[02:02:35] room or informal private discussion is
[02:02:39] about to start i call it virtual drinks
[02:02:42] with friends and we all know follow-up
[02:02:46] is important but for now if you are
[02:02:48] watching on youtube that's where we
[02:02:50] leave you for today thanks to the epic
[02:02:53] production crew and all the sponsors for
[02:02:55] making today's event possible more
[02:02:57] details about upcoming meetings at our
[02:02:59] website and if you want to get in touch
[02:03:02] with any of the participants all you
[02:03:04] have to do is contact me directly and i
[02:03:06] will make sure you get introduced it is
[02:03:09] all about connections thanks for being a
[02:03:12] pick