# Ep. 21- Skin Cancer Awareness for Estheticians with Morag Currin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqI7GkbRV7g
Translation: ko

[00:00] Good day, everyone.
  여러분, 안녕하세요.

[00:02] Welcome to another episode of Collaborative Connections, a space for sharing and learning sponsored by the Society for Oncology Massage and the Society for Oncology Aesthetics.
  협업 연결의 또 다른 에피소드에 오신 것을 환영합니다. 이곳은 종양학 마사지 협회와 종양학 미용 협회의 후원을 받는 공유와 학습의 공간입니다.

[00:15] My name is Erica Clinton and I will be your host for this episode.
  제 이름은 에리카 클린턴이며 이번 에피소드의 진행을 맡겠습니다.

[00:20] Today's episode is the third in our skin cancer awareness series.
  오늘 에피소드는 피부암 인식 시리즈의 세 번째입니다.

[00:26] And we have with us today Morag Currin, oncology aesthetician, educator, and S4OM board member.
  그리고 오늘 저희와 함께 해주시는 분은 종양학 미용사, 교육자, 그리고 S4OM 이사회 멤버인 모라그 커린입니다.

[00:36] So, I'm going to start off by telling you a little bit about her and it's a lot of bit about her because she's an amazing person.
  그래서 그녀에 대해 조금 말씀드리면서 시작하겠습니다. 그녀는 놀라운 사람이기 때문에 그녀에 대해 할 말이 많습니다.

[00:42] With more than 30 years of practice, Morag Currin is one of the most recognized voices in oncology aesthetics.
  30년 이상의 경력을 가진 모라그 커린은 종양학 미용 분야에서 가장 인정받는 목소리 중 하나입니다.

[00:50] It's a field she helped define long before it had a name.
  그녀는 이름이 붙기 훨씬 전에 이 분야를 정의하는 데 도움을 주었습니다.

[00:55] As the founder of the Soul Spa she has built an integrated professional
  소울 스파의 설립자로서 그녀는 통합적인 전문적인

[01:00] ecosystem that weaves clinical rigor, nervous system science, and deep human presence into every aspect of aesthetics education and care.
  임상적 엄격함, 신경 과학, 그리고 깊은 인간적 존재감을 미학 교육 및 관리의 모든 측면에 엮어내는 생태계입니다.

[01:13] Morag pioneered oncology aesthetics education in 2007 and has been teaching it ever since, shaping how the profession understands and serves people living with and beyond cancer.
  모라그는 2007년에 종양학 미학 교육을 개척했으며 그 이후로 계속 가르치면서 전문가들이 암을 앓고 있거나 암을 극복한 사람들을 이해하고 봉사하는 방식을 형성해 왔습니다.

[01:27] Morag is an accomplished author and continuing education presenter.
  모라그는 숙련된 작가이자 지속적인 교육 강사입니다.

[01:32] Her aesthetics trainings help professionals to develop emotional regulation, embodied presence, and the nonverbal attunement that defines truly whole person care.
  그녀의 미학 훈련은 전문가들이 감정 조절, 체화된 존재감, 그리고 진정한 전인적 관리를 정의하는 비언어적 조율을 개발하도록 돕습니다.

[01:45] Her practice has been shaped by a lifetime of attuned nonverbal communication, including navigating a career with hearing impairment, giving her an exceptional ability to read the body's language and hold space for clients navigating the hardest.
  그녀의 실천은 평생 동안 조율된 비언어적 의사소통에 의해 형성되었으며, 여기에는 청력 장애를 가진 채 경력을 쌓아가는 것이 포함되어, 신체의 언어를 읽고 가장 어려운 상황을 헤쳐나가는 고객들을 위해 공간을 마련하는 탁월한 능력을 부여했습니다.

[02:02] chapters of their lives.
  그들의 삶의 장들.

[02:05] She is an unapologetic advocate for fair professional compensation in oncology aesthetics
  그녀는 만성 미용 분야에서 공정한 전문 보상에 대해 거리낌 없이 옹호하는 사람입니다.

[02:12] challenging the industry's tendency to treat skilled certified care as a donated service.
  숙련된 인증된 치료를 기부 서비스로 취급하려는 업계의 경향에 도전합니다.

[02:19] We are so so grateful to have you with us today.
  오늘 함께 해주셔서 정말 정말 감사합니다.

[02:22] Thank you, Morag, for taking the time to join us.
  모라그, 저희와 함께 해주셔서 감사합니다.

[02:24] How are you?
  어떻게 지내세요?

[02:26] Oh, you're welcome.
  오, 천만에요.

[02:28] Thanks for having me.
  불러주셔서 감사합니다.

[02:31] That was a glowing testimonial, by the way.
  그건 그렇고, 정말 멋진 추천사였습니다.

[02:32] Well, you are an impressive impressive person to be kind of the founder of something and the champion of a field that clearly deserved to be recognized is something we all should herald.
  글쎄요, 당신은 무언가의 창립자이자 분명히 인정받을 자격이 있는 분야의 챔피언이라는 점에서 정말 인상적인 사람입니다. 이는 우리 모두가 칭송해야 할 일입니다.

[02:52] And I oftentimes find that people like yourself kind of get lost in the history of the field and I'm glad we can kind of highlight you today as we talk
  그리고 저는 종종 당신과 같은 사람들이 그 분야의 역사 속에서 잊혀지는 것을 발견하는데, 오늘 우리가 이야기하면서 당신을 조명할 수 있어서 기쁩니다.

[03:03] about oncology aesthetics and skin cancer.
  종양학 미용 및 피부암에 관한 것입니다.

[03:06] Oh, that's awesome. Thank you.
  오, 정말 멋지네요. 감사합니다.

[03:08] You're welcome.
  천만에요.

[03:09] So, I always like to start off with a bit of education for our listeners.
  그래서 저는 항상 청취자들을 위해 교육으로 시작하는 것을 좋아합니다.

[03:13] Let's just assume everybody's kind of at the same place and want some clarity about oncology aesthetic and skin cancer.
  모든 사람이 같은 입장에 있다고 가정하고 종양학 미용 및 피부암에 대해 명확히 알고 싶어한다고 가정해 봅시다.

[03:23] So, why does skin cancer awareness belong in the aesthetician scope, not just the dermatologist?
  그렇다면 피부암 인식은 왜 피부과 의사뿐만 아니라 미용사의 범위에 속해야 할까요?

[03:31] This is something I've been fighting for right from the beginning.
  이것은 제가 처음부터 싸워온 것입니다.

[03:35] Look at what we do.
  우리가 하는 일을 보세요.

[03:37] Whether we're a massage therapist or an aesthetician, we have people coming into the spa voluntarily.
  우리가 마사지 치료사이든 미용사이든, 사람들은 자발적으로 스파에 옵니다.

[03:45] A person diagnosed with cancer goes to the hospital.
  암 진단을 받은 사람은 병원에 갑니다.

[03:49] It's not a volunteer your It's a visit that they're driven by because of the disease.
  자발적인 방문이 아니라 질병 때문에 가게 되는 방문입니다.

[03:55] It's invasive. It's very clinical. It's very medical. It's very intimidating.
  침습적입니다. 매우 임상적입니다. 매우 의학적입니다. 매우 위협적입니다.

[04:01] We have an environment for the most part
  대부분의 경우 우리는 환경을 가지고 있습니다.

[04:04] that is very welcoming, very much soft guy, yet has a clinical side to it.
  매우 환영받고, 매우 부드러운 사람이지만 임상적인 면도 있습니다.

[04:10] And we're uh opening up people from so many levels, from mental from the mental side.
  그리고 우리는 여러 수준에서, 정신적인 면에서, 정신적인 면에서 사람들을 열어주고 있습니다.

[04:17] So, we look at body, mind, spirit.
  그래서 우리는 몸, 마음, 영혼을 봅니다.

[04:19] We're not just focusing on a disease like a medical professional.
  우리는 의료 전문가처럼 질병에만 집중하는 것이 아닙니다.

[04:24] We're also looking at the outcomes for a person from a psychological perspective.
  우리는 또한 심리학적 관점에서 개인의 결과도 살펴보고 있습니다.

[04:29] Of course, people come to us for skin-related issues.
  물론 사람들은 피부 관련 문제로 저희를 찾아옵니다.

[04:31] Perhaps they're coming to us for relaxation.
  아마도 휴식을 위해 저희를 찾아올 것입니다.

[04:36] Some of them might be coming to us for symptom relief, which really falls more into the massage therapy side, but they're still massages done in aesthetic treatments as well.
  그들 중 일부는 증상 완화를 위해 저희를 찾아올 수도 있는데, 이는 실제로 마사지 요법에 더 가깝지만, 미용 치료에서도 마사지가 이루어지고 있습니다.

[04:45] So, people have a tendency to also share information with us more voluntarily.
  그래서 사람들은 우리와 정보를 더 자발적으로 공유하는 경향이 있습니다.

[04:52] And by sharing information and by trusting us, we're also uh seeing people in very much a vulnerable state.
  그리고 정보를 공유하고 우리를 신뢰함으로써, 우리는 또한 매우 취약한 상태에 있는 사람들을 보고 있습니다.

[04:58] We see them emotionally vulnerable.
  우리는 그들이 감정적으로 취약한 것을 봅니다.

[05:01] We see them physically vulnerable.
  우리는 그들이 신체적으로 취약한 것을 봅니다.

[05:05] And so, we are exposed to the bodies that certainly sometimes, unless they have to see a doctor for a specific lesion on their body or something like that, we have the tendency to see people the in any part of the body actually that we're working at.
  그래서, 우리는 특정 병변 때문에 의사를 봐야 하는 경우가 아니라면, 신체 부위 중 어느 곳이든 우리가 작업하는 곳에 사람들이 있다는 경향을 보입니다.

[05:22] So, I think that puts us in a very strong position to really try and advocate more for recognizing skin cancer and creating more awareness around this because there are still too many people that "Yeah, yeah, tomorrow's another day. I don't need sun protection."
  그래서 저는 이것이 피부암을 인식하고 이에 대한 인식을 더 높이기 위해 노력할 수 있는 매우 강력한 위치에 우리를 놓는다고 생각합니다. 왜냐하면 여전히 너무 많은 사람들이 "그래, 그래, 내일은 또 다른 날이야. 나는 자외선 차단이 필요 없어."라고 말하기 때문입니다.

[05:44] And so, they it's we have to step into a role of responsibility in some way because just by the way that we address this, the we need to make it so that the client takes us more seriously and says, "You know what? I do need to get this checked out."
  그래서 우리는 어떤 식으로든 책임감 있는 역할을 해야 합니다. 왜냐하면 우리가 이것을 다루는 방식만으로도 고객이 우리를 더 진지하게 받아들이고 "알다시피? 이걸 확인해야겠어."라고 말하도록 만들어야 하기 때문입니다.

[06:01] Now, here in Canada, we really do have a problem with regards
  이제 캐나다에서는 정말로 문제가 있습니다.

[06:06] to dermatologists.
  피부과 의사에게.

[06:08] There are not enough of them for us, and my biggest thing is, "You know what? Don't make excuses.
  우리에게는 그들이 충분하지 않고, 제가 가장 중요하게 생각하는 것은 "아시겠어요? 변명하지 마세요.

[06:12] I know it's going to cost you a little bit of money.
  돈이 좀 들 거라는 걸 알아요.

[06:14] Hop over the border, go down to United States, and book yourself in with a dermatologist there."
  국경을 넘어 미국으로 가서 거기서 피부과 의사에게 예약하세요."

[06:20] But, coming back to estheticians and massage therapists, you're seeing pretty much the whole body.
  하지만, 에스테티션과 마사지 치료사로 돌아가면, 거의 전신을 보게 됩니다.

[06:25] Estheticians, we're seeing parts of the body.
  에스테티션은 신체의 일부를 봅니다.

[06:28] Depending on where you are in the world, you might see the whole body as well.
  세계 어디에 있느냐에 따라 전신을 볼 수도 있습니다.

[06:33] But, just little areas like the back of the hairline, in the ear, on the top of the ear, on your back someplace, behind your knee, the back of your legs.
  하지만, 머리카락 뒤쪽, 귀 안쪽, 귀 위쪽, 등 어딘가, 무릎 뒤쪽, 다리 뒤쪽과 같은 작은 부위들 말이죠.

[06:42] These are areas that people don't look at.
  이것들은 사람들이 잘 보지 않는 부위입니다.

[06:45] And so, when somebody comes to us and they're trusting us to look at them like that, it really is a responsibility for us to actually encourage them to go for checkups.
  그래서 누군가가 우리에게 와서 그렇게 봐달라고 우리를 믿는다면, 우리가 실제로 그들에게 검진을 받도록 격려하는 것은 정말 우리의 책임입니다.

[06:55] And, you know what? Despite the fact GPs might say, "Oh, yeah, just a wait-and-see type of thing."
  그리고, 아시겠어요? GP들이 "오, 그래, 그냥 지켜보자."라고 말할 수도 있다는 사실에도 불구하고.

[07:00] Push for it.
  밀어붙이세요.

[07:03] Push for that biopsy.
  그 생검을 밀어붙이세요.

[07:06] Mhm.
  음.

[07:07] Yeah, that's very important.
  네, 그것은 매우 중요합니다.

[07:09] And as you were talking, I was like, right, you could see your esthetician once a month or once every couple weeks, where if you even if you have a regular dermatologist, you're probably going to see that person once a year.
  그리고 당신이 말하는 동안, 나는 생각했습니다, 맞아요, 당신은 한 달에 한 번 또는 몇 주에 한 번씩 당신의 피부 관리사를 볼 수 있었는데, 정기적인 피부과 의사가 있더라도, 당신은 아마도 그 사람을 일년에 한 번 볼 것입니다.

[07:22] Right.
  맞아요.

[07:24] So, the opportunity for intervention and early intervention is really in the hands of the esthetician.
  그래서, 개입과 조기 개입의 기회는 실제로 피부 관리사의 손에 달려 있습니다.

[07:30] Absolutely.
  전적으로 동의합니다.

[07:30] And you know what?
  그리고 아시겠어요?

[07:32] Being silent about something that's unusual is doing a disservice to your client.
  이상한 것에 대해 침묵하는 것은 고객에게 불이익을 주는 것입니다.

[07:37] Yeah, very much so.
  네, 매우 그렇습니다.

[07:37] As hard as it may be to say, right?
  말하기 어렵겠지만, 그렇죠?

[07:42] It's always difficult to have to navigate that conversation, but not saying something is I would even say unethical.
  그 대화를 헤쳐나가야 하는 것은 항상 어렵지만, 아무 말도 하지 않는 것은 비윤리적이라고까지 말할 수 있습니다.

[07:51] Correct.
  맞습니다.

[07:51] I absolutely agree with you.
  전적으로 동의합니다.

[07:54] I I mean and they are little ways to do it.
  제 말은, 그것을 할 수 있는 작은 방법들이 있다는 것입니다.

[07:55] So, you can actually almost make it light-hearted in the sense that, "You know what?
  그래서, 당신은 실제로 그것을 가볍게 만들 수 있습니다. "아시겠어요?

[08:01] I'm going to take a photograph of this lesion and I want to take it every time you come here.
  이 병변의 사진을 찍을 것이고 당신이 여기 올 때마다 찍고 싶습니다.

[08:05] I want to take a picture of it and
  그것의 사진을 찍고 싶습니다.

[08:09] I want to see how it's changing.
  이것이 어떻게 변하는지 보고 싶습니다.

[08:12] And perhaps the changing of the lesion is going to make people more aware because I have realized also from aesthetics over the years, people just accept changes without being alarmed with the changes.
  그리고 아마도 병변의 변화가 사람들에게 더 많은 인식을 갖게 할 것입니다. 왜냐하면 저는 미용적인 측면에서도 수년에 걸쳐 사람들이 변화에 놀라지 않고 그냥 받아들인다는 것을 깨달았기 때문입니다.

[08:26] For example, I met somebody quite a few years ago and I was doing a presentation on skin cancer and my eyes kept gravitating to this man's forehead because he had a an open wound there.
  예를 들어, 저는 몇 년 전에 어떤 사람을 만났는데, 피부암에 대한 발표를 하고 있었고, 그 남자의 이마에 열린 상처가 있어서 제 시선이 계속 그쪽으로 향했습니다.

[08:38] And finally, I couldn't resist it anymore and I said to him, "How long have you had that sore on your face for cuz it's quite open and raw?"
  마침내 더 이상 참을 수 없어서 그에게 말했습니다. "그 얼굴의 상처가 얼마나 오래됐어요? 꽤 열려 있고 생생한데?"

[08:47] And he goes, "Oh, I've had it for 6 months."
  그는 "아, 6개월 됐어요."라고 말했습니다.

[08:50] And I said, "Well, don't you think you need to get it checked out?"
  저는 "글쎄요, 검사를 받아봐야 한다고 생각하지 않으세요?"라고 말했습니다.

[08:53] And he said, "Actually, I did. I had it checked out last week and it's a squamous cell carcinoma."
  그는 "사실, 받았어요. 지난주에 검사받았는데 편평상피세포암이래요."라고 말했습니다.

[08:58] But this is what I'm saying.
  하지만 제가 말하려는 것은 이것입니다.

[09:02] He accepted that anomaly as normal.
  그는 그 이상을 정상으로 받아들였습니다.

[09:04] It'll heal up sometime.
  언젠가는 나을 거예요.

[09:07] Okay?
  알겠죠?

[09:07] And so, this is the same thing
  그래서, 이것은 같은 것입니다

[09:09] that's happening with moles.
  점들에 무슨 일이 일어나고 있는지요.

[09:11] If there's changes to the mole, "Oh, it's just changing."
  점에 변화가 있다면, "아, 그냥 변하는 거야."라고요.

[09:13] Or if it's itchy, "Oh, I've just got it a temporary itch."
  또는 가렵다면, "아, 일시적인 가려움일 뿐이야."라고요.

[09:17] Or somebody says to me, "Well, I'm having a headache every day."
  또는 누군가 저에게 "매일 두통이 있어요."라고 말한다면요.

[09:20] And I'm like, "That's not normal."
  저는 "그건 정상이 아니에요."라고 말하죠.

[09:22] "Well, yes it is. I've had headaches for years."
  "글쎄요, 맞아요. 몇 년 동안 두통이 있었어요."

[09:24] Okay, that's not normal.
  알겠습니다, 그건 정상이 아니에요.

[09:26] So, this is what I'm saying.
  그래서 제가 말하려는 것은 이것입니다.

[09:28] People are very accepting of changes on their skin and on their body and they don't take seriously what the long-term repercussions are going to be.
  사람들은 피부와 몸의 변화를 매우 당연하게 받아들이고 장기적인 결과가 어떻게 될지 심각하게 생각하지 않습니다.

[09:37] is like teenagers, even when they come here and they do equine therapy with us, I say to them, "You know what you guys really need to wear some protection."
  십대들처럼, 심지어 이곳에 와서 저희와 함께 승마 치료를 할 때도 저는 그들에게 "여러분은 정말 보호 장비를 착용해야 해요."라고 말합니다.

[09:43] "No, we'll be fine. We don't need sun protection."
  "아니요, 괜찮을 거예요. 선크림은 필요 없어요."

[09:47] But you know what? My voice rings in the back of their mind when they're like 50 years old and they have half their nose removed or they've got a big chunk of tissue taken out of their body and they remember, "Oh, maybe we should have paid attention to it then."
  하지만 아시나요? 제가 50세가 되어 코의 절반을 제거하거나 몸에서 큰 덩어리의 조직을 제거했을 때, 그들은 "아, 그때 좀 더 주의했어야 했어."라고 기억할 때 제 말이 그들의 마음속에 울려 퍼집니다.

[10:01] So, I think that are really strong thing.
  그래서 저는 그것이 정말 강력한 것이라고 생각합니다.

[10:05] People forget and don't pay attention to the changes to their skin.
  사람들은 잊어버리고 피부의 변화에 주의를 기울이지 않습니다.

[10:08] Yes, and they're willing to ignore
  네, 그리고 그들은 무시하려고 합니다.

[10:11] so much, right?
  정말 많죠, 그렇죠?

[10:15] Even things that that clearly indicate something is not right.
  분명히 무언가 잘못되었다는 것을 나타내는 것들조차도요.

[10:17] Absolutely.
  전적으로요.

[10:18] Absolutely.
  전적으로요.

[10:20] But you know what? And it's the same thing, Erica.
  하지만 아시죠? 그리고 에리카, 그것은 같은 것입니다.

[10:23] It's people in Africa, they've got darker toned skin.
  아프리카에 있는 사람들이에요, 그들은 더 어두운 색조의 피부를 가지고 있습니다.

[10:25] We don't need to use sun protection.
  우리는 선크림을 사용할 필요가 없습니다.

[10:28] Well, of course you've got more protection than we do with a lighter skin.
  글쎄요, 물론 당신은 더 밝은 피부를 가진 우리보다 더 많은 보호 기능을 가지고 있습니다.

[10:31] You do.
  그렇죠.

[10:33] But let me tell you, it's sometimes harder to pick up when there's anomaly there.
  하지만 말씀드리자면, 이상 징후가 있을 때 감지하기가 때로는 더 어렵습니다.

[10:37] Right.
  맞아요.

[10:38] So, wear sun protection and or take care of your skin.
  그러니 선크림을 바르거나 피부를 관리하세요.

[10:42] Yeah.
  네.

[10:43] Um there's a lot There's a lot of education that I feel, I guess, needs to happen.
  음, 제가 느끼기에, 아마도 교육이 많이 필요할 것 같습니다.

[10:47] So, let's talk about aestheticians and education.
  그러니, 미용사와 교육에 대해 이야기해 봅시다.

[10:52] What do you think is the most common gap in their understanding of skin cancer risk?
  피부암 위험에 대한 그들의 이해에서 가장 흔한 격차는 무엇이라고 생각하십니까?

[10:59] What don't they get in foundational education?
  기초 교육에서 그들은 무엇을 얻지 못합니까?

[11:02] So, a lot of them and what I'm trying to say to aestheticians, particularly like when
  그래서, 그들 중 많은 사람들과 제가 미용사들에게 특히 말하려고 하는 것은

[11:03] There's a lot of people, first of all, let's say that they have never seen somebody with skin cancer.
  우선, 피부암 환자를 본 적이 없는 사람들이 많다고 합시다.

[11:12] I'm talking to aestheticians in training at school level, and about the non like your benign lesions on the skin.
  저는 학교 수준의 훈련 중인 미용사들에게 그리고 피부의 양성 병변과 같은 것에 대해 이야기하고 있습니다.

[11:20] Know what a mole looks like.
  점은 어떻게 생겼는지 아십시오.

[11:22] Know what sebaceous hyperplasia looks like.
  피지선 증식증은 어떻게 생겼는지 아십시오.

[11:24] Know what skin tags look like.
  피부 태그는 어떻게 생겼는지 아십시오.

[11:27] Know what your benign lesions are.
  양성 병변이 무엇인지 아십시오.

[11:29] And anytime you see something that looks suspicious, then address it.
  그리고 의심스러워 보이는 것을 보면 즉시 대처하십시오.

[11:35] I find that the schools seem to and appear to teach about your sun protection.
  학교에서는 자외선 차단에 대해 가르치고 가르치는 것 같습니다.

[11:40] They talk about being in the sun early morning or late in the afternoon.
  그들은 아침 일찍이나 늦은 오후에 햇볕을 쬐는 것에 대해 이야기합니다.

[11:42] They talk about wearing clothing.
  그들은 옷을 입는 것에 대해 이야기합니다.

[11:47] They talk about slight changes to the skin, but it's not done in depth.
  그들은 피부의 약간의 변화에 대해 이야기하지만, 깊이 있게 다루지는 않습니다.

[11:53] And then a few years ago, there was this big scare out there in the industry where everybody was hitting the bandwagon about sun protection and using SPF 60 and and the higher but nobody focuses on the reapplication of the product.
  그리고 몇 년 전, 업계에서 모두가 자외선 차단과 SPF 60 이상을 사용하는 것에 대해 열광했지만 아무도 제품 재도포에 집중하지 않는 큰 소동이 있었습니다.

[12:10] You can't just put sun protection on in
  자외선 차단제를 바르는 것만으로는 안 됩니다.

[12:12] the morning and be out in the sun for the full day.
  아침에 나와서 하루 종일 햇볕을 쬐는 것입니다.

[12:16] The number there has a meaning.
  거기에 있는 숫자는 의미가 있습니다.

[12:18] And you have to reapply.
  그리고 다시 발라야 합니다.

[12:21] So, that's the one thing that people don't do properly.
  그래서 사람들이 제대로 하지 않는 한 가지입니다.

[12:23] There's also big issues out there, too.
  거기에는 또한 큰 문제들도 있습니다.

[12:26] And aestheticians and I know this because I just did a presentation with a group of girls just this last week at an aesthetic school in Ontario.
  그리고 미용사들과 저는 이것을 알고 있습니다. 왜냐하면 저는 지난주에 온타리오의 한 미용 학교에서 소녀들 그룹과 함께 발표를 했기 때문입니다.

[12:32] And one of their questions was just what you're asking me here from the awareness perspective.
  그리고 그들의 질문 중 하나는 인식 관점에서 당신이 저에게 묻고 있는 것과 같았습니다.

[12:37] What can we do to help prevent and stuff like that?
  예방 등을 돕기 위해 무엇을 할 수 있습니까?

[12:42] So, we talked about it, but one of the other things that I also addressed based on the sun protection 60 in the past.
  그래서 우리는 그것에 대해 이야기했지만, 제가 과거에 자외선 차단 60을 기반으로 다룬 다른 것들 중 하나는 다음과 같습니다.

[12:47] Two aspects to it.
  두 가지 측면이 있습니다.

[12:49] They asked what ingredients are best.
  그들은 어떤 성분이 가장 좋은지 물었습니다.

[12:51] Is a chemical sunscreen good or a physical?
  화학적 자외선 차단제가 좋은가요, 아니면 물리적 자외선 차단제가 좋은가요?

[12:56] And of course, I I'm a great strong advocate for the physical with zinc dioxide and titanium dioxide.
  그리고 물론, 저는 산화아연과 이산화티타늄을 함유한 물리적 자외선 차단제를 강력히 지지합니다.

[13:03] The chemical sun protective ingredients are most of the time absorbed into the system, whereas your titanium and zinc are sitting on the surface of the skin.
  화학적 자외선 차단 성분은 대부분 몸에 흡수되는 반면, 티타늄과 아연은 피부 표면에 남아 있습니다.

[13:14] So, that's a big difference.
  그래서, 그것은 큰 차이입니다.

[13:16] And so, that's one aspect of it.
  그리고 그것이 한 측면입니다.

[13:18] The other thing and I learned this from Dr. Des Fernandes and he is a plastic surgeon or cosmetic surgeon in Cape Town in in Africa.
  다른 점은 제가 Des Fernandes 박사로부터 이것을 배웠는데, 그는 남아프리카 공화국 케이프타운의 성형외과 의사이자 미용외과 의사입니다.

[13:29] And he started from his surgery practice, he was working mostly with skin cancer.
  그리고 그는 그의 수술 실무에서 시작했는데, 주로 피부암을 다루고 있었습니다.

[13:35] And that's why he landed up promoting a skin care line that is very strong in vitamin A is just to help prevent skin cancers and stuff like that.
  그래서 그는 비타민 A가 풍부한 스킨케어 라인을 홍보하게 되었는데, 이는 피부암 등을 예방하는 데 도움이 됩니다.

[13:52] So, we need 10 to 20 minutes of full body exposure to UV on a daily basis.
  따라서 우리는 매일 10~20분 동안 전신이 자외선에 노출될 필요가 있습니다.

[14:02] And so, it will depend.
  그래서, 그것은 달라질 것입니다.

[14:05] The more pigment you have in your skin, you don't need the 20 minutes.
  피부에 색소가 많을수록 20분이 필요하지 않습니다.

[14:09] You can get away with 10.
  10분으로도 충분합니다.

[14:11] But somebody who's a much older person, remember, is going to need more.
  하지만 훨씬 더 나이가 많은 사람은 더 많이 필요할 것이라는 점을 기억하세요.

[14:14] Some people also with a lighter skin I mean, and you're going out at the early morning or late afternoon or something like that.
  피부색이 옅은 사람들도 이른 아침이나 늦은 오후에 밖에 나가는 것을 의미합니다.

[14:21] But get as much sun on your as much of your body that you can every day for vitamin D conversion.
  하지만 비타민 D 전환을 위해 매일 가능한 한 많은 신체 부위에 햇볕을 쬐세요.

[14:30] And so, all of a sudden everybody was missing the whole vitamin D thing and a vitamin D deficiencies start to arise now.
  그래서 갑자기 모든 사람들이 비타민 D에 대해 놓치고 있었고 비타민 D 결핍이 이제 발생하기 시작했습니다.

[14:39] So, we think we're solving one problem and we're creating another problem.
  그래서 우리는 한 가지 문제를 해결하고 있다고 생각하지만 다른 문제를 만들고 있습니다.

[14:43] Yes.
  네.

[14:45] Yes.
  네.

[14:45] And I think that that whole sun exposure vitamin D conversion, like those conversations just get left out when people are so focused on skin cancers.
  그리고 저는 햇볕 노출과 비타민 D 전환에 대한 그러한 대화들이 사람들이 피부암에 너무 집중할 때 간과된다고 생각합니다.

[14:54] Yes, be aware, but the sun does do things that our bodies need.
  네, 인지해야 하지만 햇볕은 우리 몸에 필요한 일을 합니다.

[15:01] Right?
  맞죠?

[15:02] Yes.
  네.

[15:02] Um and that will allow us to be as healthy as possible within reason, right?
  음, 그리고 그것은 합리적인 범위 내에서 가능한 한 건강하게 지낼 수 있도록 해줄 것입니다, 그렇죠?

[15:08] Absolutely.
  물론입니다.

[15:10] So, let's talk about moles because that feels like it's kind of weird gray area.
  그래서 점에 대해 이야기해 봅시다. 왜냐하면 그것은 약간 이상한 회색 영역처럼 느껴지기 때문입니다.

[15:15] Everyone thinks it's just a mole, it's just a mole, it's just a mole.
  모두가 그것이 그냥 점일 뿐이라고 생각합니다. 그냥 점일 뿐입니다. 그냥 점일 뿐입니다.

[15:20] But are the number of moles an indicator of risk of skin cancer for people?
  하지만 점의 개수가 사람들의 피부암 위험의 지표가 될까요?

[15:27] Yes. Yes.
  네. 네.

[15:30] There is something out there called the FAM syndrome.
  FAM 증후군이라고 불리는 것이 있습니다.

[15:32] Familial atypical multiple mole melanoma syndrome.
  가족성 비정형 다발성 점 흑색종 증후군입니다.

[15:38] It's a long name.
  이름이 기네요.

[15:38] So, it's F A M M M.
  그래서 F A M M M입니다.

[15:42] And this is typically a much lighter toned skin like a Fitzpatrick one if you're into the Fitzpatrick scale.
  그리고 이것은 일반적으로 Fitzpatrick 척도를 아신다면 Fitzpatrick 1등급과 같이 훨씬 더 옅은 톤의 피부입니다.

[15:50] They somebody that really has that redhead gene and very pale translucent skin.
  그들은 정말로 붉은 머리 유전자를 가지고 있고 매우 창백하고 반투명한 피부를 가진 사람입니다.

[15:56] So, the FAM syndrome is more common with these people.
  따라서 FAM 증후군은 이러한 사람들에게 더 흔합니다.

[15:58] So, it looks like a person with multiple freckles and moles.
  그래서 여러 개의 주근깨와 점을 가진 사람처럼 보입니다.

[16:04] And they are three times higher for a risk for melanoma.
  그리고 그들은 흑색종의 위험이 세 배 더 높습니다.

[16:08] You've got people with multiple moles on their body.
  몸에 여러 개의 점을 가진 사람들이 있습니다.

[16:11] And moles, if you look at the ABCDEF, they should be pretty spherical.
  그리고 점은 ABCDEF를 보면 꽤 구형이어야 합니다.

[16:18] should be uniform in color.
  색상이 균일해야 합니다.

[16:20] They should be a nice sort of rounded appearance.
  적당히 둥근 모양이어야 합니다.

[16:23] The border should be clearly defined.
  경계는 명확하게 정의되어야 합니다.

[16:26] And so, when you start to look at that's what a typical mole is.
  그래서, 그것을 보기 시작하면 일반적인 점이 무엇인지 알 수 있습니다.

[16:30] But when you have five moles that are like the tip of your eraser on a pencil, that's about 6 mm.
  하지만 연필 끝 지우개와 같은 점이 다섯 개 있다면, 그것은 약 6mm입니다.

[16:37] If you have more than five moles like that on the body, you have a three times risk higher risk for skin for melanoma as well.
  몸에 그런 점이 다섯 개 이상 있다면, 피부암, 특히 흑색종의 위험이 세 배 더 높습니다.

[16:47] A person that's also immune suppressed has a three times higher risk of melanoma.
  면역 억제 상태인 사람도 흑색종의 위험이 세 배 더 높습니다.

[16:52] So, there are these indicators that aestheticians can have.
  따라서 미용사가 가질 수 있는 이러한 지표들이 있습니다.

[16:54] And they can ask these questions when they have clients coming into the spa.
  그리고 고객이 스파에 올 때 이러한 질문을 할 수 있습니다.

[17:00] Do you have lots of freckles and moles on the body?
  몸에 주근깨와 점이 많으신가요?

[17:02] Have you ever had the moles counted?
  점을 세어본 적이 있으신가요?

[17:04] Do you know how many moles you've got on your body?
  몸에 점이 몇 개인지 아시나요?

[17:06] Have you had any moles changing?
  점이 변한 적이 있나요?

[17:08] And so, yeah, there's just so many indicators that a person is at much higher risk for melanoma in particular, but also skin
  그래서, 네, 특히 흑색종, 하지만 피부암의 위험이 훨씬 높은 사람이라는 것을 나타내는 지표가 많이 있습니다.

[17:19] Cancers.
  암입니다.

[17:22] If somebody's had your basal cell and squamous cell carcinoma or melanoma in the past, that increases their risk as well for the getting another skin cancer in the future.
  과거에 기저 세포 및 편평 세포 암종 또는 흑색종을 앓았던 사람이 있다면, 미래에 또 다른 피부암에 걸릴 위험도 증가합니다.

[17:31] Well, a side note to that, and I know that I'm not trying to redirect the conversation here, but it also pertains to cancer survivors right now being treated for melanoma, they are some drugs on the market at the moment which fall into They are, I believe, they're immunotherapy drugs or targeted therapy drugs or crossover into those two categories there.
  글쎄요, 이에 대한 부수적인 말인데, 제가 여기서 대화를 다른 방향으로 이끌려고 하는 것은 아니라는 것을 알지만, 현재 흑색종으로 치료받고 있는 암 생존자에게도 해당됩니다. 현재 시장에는 면역 요법 약물 또는 표적 치료 약물에 속하거나 이 두 가지 범주로 교차하는 약물들이 있습니다.

[17:58] I'm just trying to remember the names now.
  지금 이름을 기억하려고 노력 중입니다.

[18:00] Yervoy is one.
  여보이가 그중 하나입니다.

[18:03] Anyway, it's been prescribed a lot for people with melanoma at the moment, and these drugs are causing a vitiligo type rash on people.
  어쨌든, 현재 흑색종 환자들에게 많이 처방되고 있으며, 이 약물들은 사람들에게 백반증과 같은 발진을 일으키고 있습니다.

[18:13] So now think about this.
  이제 이것에 대해 생각해 봅시다.

[18:15] We've got melanin in our melanocytes, and they're there for protective
  우리의 멜라노사이트에는 멜라닌이 있고, 그것은 보호를 위해 존재합니다.

[18:19] Purposes.
  목적입니다.

[18:21] So now all of a sudden these people have had a melanoma removed, and they've been given drugs for the melanoma, in other words, to kill off that melanoma.
  그래서 갑자기 이 사람들은 흑색종을 제거했고, 흑색종 치료제를 투여받았습니다. 즉, 그 흑색종을 죽이기 위해서입니다.

[18:33] And causing the skin to lose all the pigment, and so people are coming up with that, and it is They call it a vitiligo type rash.
  그리고 피부의 색소를 모두 잃게 만들고, 그래서 사람들은 그것을 겪게 되는데, 그것을 백반증 유사 발진이라고 부릅니다.

[18:43] So now I've been following a group that have been talking about it because they have post People are posting up on social media and stuff what their skin looks like with this rash.
  그래서 저는 이 그룹을 따라가고 있는데, 그들은 이 발진으로 피부가 어떻게 보이는지에 대해 소셜 미디어 등에 게시하고 있기 때문에 이에 대해 이야기하고 있습니다.

[18:52] And then I'll say to them, "What does your oncologist have to say about this?"
  그러면 저는 그들에게 "당신의 종양 전문의는 이것에 대해 뭐라고 말하나요?"라고 말할 것입니다.

[18:56] And not the oncologist is happy because they said the drugs working.
  그리고 종양 전문의는 약이 효과가 있다고 말했기 때문에 행복해하지 않습니다.

[18:59] And I said, "Okay, but I'm coming and I don't go in from an aesthetician or I don't come in with an an attitude to say well your oncologist is not doing you a favor."
  그리고 저는 "알겠습니다. 하지만 저는 미용사로서 접근하는 것이 아니고, 당신의 종양 전문의가 당신에게 호의를 베푸는 것이 아니라고 말하는 태도로 접근하는 것이 아닙니다."라고 말했습니다.

[19:08] I'm not doing that at all.
  저는 전혀 그렇게 하지 않습니다.

[19:10] I'm just saying to them just pay attention to your skin because what's happening here is the melanin in your skin is being destroyed from these
  저는 단지 그들에게 당신의 피부에 주의를 기울이라고 말하고 있습니다. 왜냐하면 여기서 일어나고 있는 일은 당신의 피부 속 멜라닌이 이것들로부터 파괴되고 있기 때문입니다.

[19:22] drugs.
  약물입니다.

[19:25] Your melanin is there to protect the skin.
  멜라닌은 피부를 보호하기 위해 존재합니다.

[19:27] And so now all of a sudden you've got this white skin where I'm talking there's no pigment like there's no pigment there.
  그래서 갑자기 하얀 피부를 갖게 되었는데, 제가 말하는 곳에는 색소가 전혀 없습니다.

[19:33] You're going to be at risk for future skin cancers and you're going to be at risk for burning.
  미래의 피부암 위험에 노출될 것이고 햇볕에 타는 위험에도 노출될 것입니다.

[19:41] And then they they look at me like well we'll go with what our oncologist says and I'm like okay, you know what?
  그러더니 그들은 저를 보며 종양학자가 말하는 대로 하겠다고 합니다. 저는 괜찮다고, 아시겠어요?

[19:47] That's your choice.
  그것은 당신의 선택입니다.

[19:49] But that is the reality of what melanin does.
  하지만 그것이 멜라닌의 실제 기능입니다.

[19:52] We need melanin in our skins.
  우리 피부에는 멜라닌이 필요합니다.

[19:56] Right.
  맞습니다.

[19:57] Right.
  맞습니다.

[19:58] I can't force people to put sun protection on.
  사람들에게 자외선 차단제를 바르도록 강요할 수는 없습니다.

[20:00] And I mean the other side effect of that drug obviously it it impacts a person's appearance.
  그리고 그 약물의 다른 부작용은 분명히 사람의 외모에 영향을 미칩니다.

[20:07] Because if you recall Michael Jackson how we him having a beautiful coffee colored skin and then all of a sudden he got this white vitiligo.
  마이클 잭슨을 기억하신다면, 아름다운 커피색 피부를 가졌던 그가 갑자기 백반증에 걸렸던 것을요.

[20:15] And so when somebody doesn't matter what color you are but if you start to lose the pigment in your skin and you've got this mottled rash all over your body very hard to
  그래서 누군가가 어떤 색깔이든 상관없이 피부의 색소를 잃기 시작하고 온몸에 얼룩덜룩한 발진이 생기면 매우 어렵습니다.

[20:23] cover up.

[20:25] Right.

[20:26] Right. And obviously

[20:30] you've already kind of survived melanoma

[20:33] and now the treatment is making you at

[20:36] risk for more cancer or more skin cancer

[20:39] later on.

[20:40] And that's

[20:43] And of course people aren't actually

[20:44] thinking about it, right? They're just

[20:46] they're being given these drugs and

[20:48] trusting that their oncologists are

[20:50] sending them in the right direction but

[20:52] there's always something a little bit

[20:54] more complicated.

[20:56] Yeah. Look, you know what? With all due

[20:58] respect oncologists they're doing their

[21:00] job. They're focusing on killing the

[21:02] cancer, okay? Or the cancer cells.

[21:04] Absolutely.

[21:05] Secondary to cancer is dealing with skin

[21:09] related issues. Ultimately, the person

[21:11] lands up with a skin cancer and the

[21:13] future, I guess the oncologist will come

[21:15] in again and deal with that specific

[21:17] skin cancer. So, they see things very

[21:19] differently to the way we do as

[21:21] aestheticians. We're saying protect your

[21:24] skin while you're going through

[21:26] treatment because you don't want to have

[21:27] another skin cancer. I mean, you don't

[21:29] want to have a deformity because you're

[21:31] going to have to have your nose chopped

[21:33] off or your ear and then you have to

[21:35] have a prosthesis and all this kind of

[21:37] stuff. Or you have a deformity. I mean,

[21:39] all of a sudden psychologically, you're

[21:40] going to be impacted because you don't

[21:42] want people to look at you.

[21:43] You mentioned something that I just want

[21:45] to ask a question about. So, when people

[21:47] are immune compromised or

[21:49] immune suppressed, whether it's due to

[21:52] chemotherapy or radiation or some other

[21:54] kind of autoimmune disease, are they

[21:56] more at risk

[21:58] for skin cancer?

[21:59] Yes.

[22:01] Okay.

[22:02] Yes.

[22:02] Okay, so that is also something that

[22:04] aestheticians should be

[22:06] asking about in terms of medical

[22:09] history.

[22:10] Absolutely. Yes, years ago I also had a

[22:13] kidney transplant survivor when I was

[22:15] living Arizona. And she was lucky. She

[22:19] never ever developed melanoma in the

[22:21] time I knew her. But the squamous cell

[22:24] and basal cell carcinomas. Now, I can't

[22:28] remember if she just had one kidney

[22:32] transplant or if one of them may have

[22:34] failed and she had to have a second one.

[22:36] But irrespective of that, she landed up

[22:39] being on prednisone for at least 10

[22:42] years afterwards. So, she landed up

[22:44] having the skin that was impacted by

[22:47] prednisone, which is obviously quite

[22:50] thin, used to tear very easily, burnt in

[22:53] the sun. And it almost got to the point

[22:55] where she could tell her dermatologist,

[22:58] she saw a derm every 3 months because

[23:00] she would I've got a squamous cell

[23:02] carcinoma coming up. No, we'll check it

[23:04] in another 3 months. I wanted biopsy.

[23:07] Okay, let's biopsy it. Oh, by the way,

[23:09] yes, that was a squamous cell carcinoma.

[23:12] So, when you're immune suppressed

[23:14] and the UV damage and again

[23:17] we're talking about and somebody said

[23:19] this to me the other day, oh well, we

[23:21] don't need to put sun protection on cuz

[23:23] it's cloudy out there. I'm like, oh, you

[23:26] need sun protection.

[23:28] Doesn't make a diff Oh, I know it was

[23:30] Yes, some people went out fishing and

[23:31] they came back and they were all burnt

[23:33] and I said, you should have been wearing

[23:35] sun protection or have a hat on or

[23:38] something like that. No, it was cloudy

[23:39] out there and

[23:42] There we go. And this is what I'm saying

[23:44] is you have to constantly remind people

[23:47] about it. They don't take it seriously.

[23:50] Right.

[23:51] Sun exposure is obvious, but what are

[23:54] like less obvious sources of UV

[23:57] radiation that people are not connecting

[23:59] to skin cancer risk?

[24:02] One of the biggest ones that is in our

[24:04] industry and I don't know if they

[24:07] changed the UV lights with artificial

[24:10] nails.

[24:13] People that were having gel and acrylic,

[24:16] I think mostly gel nails, they would be

[24:18] putting their fingernails in there and

[24:20] then people started getting melanomas in

[24:22] the fingers, fingernails.

[24:26] Wow.

[24:27] People don't think about these things.

[24:29] Yeah.

[24:30] So, did they change that in the nail

[24:33] I haven't looked into it for a while,

[24:35] but it's something I can look into, but

[24:37] it is UV light. But what is the

[24:40] wavelength that they're actually using

[24:42] in that? So, when it comes to

[24:44] aestheticians, even working with light

[24:47] therapy, know your wavelengths. And know

[24:51] specifically where there's protection.

[24:53] The other one is tanning beds.

[24:55] People The people that I've met that go

[24:58] to tanning beds actually have an

[24:59] addiction to this. So, these are

[25:02] an

[25:02] endorphin build-up when they go into the

[25:05] tanning bed. Psychologically, they I

[25:08] mean, they brown up physically, but

[25:10] psychologically, they're happier and

[25:13] they've got more energy and stuff like

[25:15] that. And they don't realize the damage

[25:17] that they're actually doing to their

[25:18] skin. And tanning beds, UVA in

[25:21] particular, is in the tanning beds like

[25:24] the UVB. And the UVA is the one that's

[25:27] causing all the issues. Now, the other

[25:28] one,

[25:30] which is, of course, UV related, is, of

[25:32] course, people like flight attendants

[25:34] and pilots. And I know you're going to

[25:36] interview Scott, and he will tell you

[25:39] exactly what their exposure is because

[25:41] even those windows in the aircraft have

[25:44] no protection, and these guys are

[25:45] exposed to UV radiation. So, yeah,

[25:49] people Apparently, there is a much

[25:51] bigger awareness about this now, but

[25:53] I've been talking about flight

[25:55] attendants and pilots for quite a few

[25:57] years now because I've heard more and

[26:00] more of them getting skin cancers and

[26:02] stuff like that.

[26:04] Wow. So, aestheticians, to be as

[26:07] comprehensive and as well-informed as

[26:09] possible, should know a lot about their

[26:11] clients, right? Not just

[26:14] their

[26:15] medical history or their skin cancer

[26:18] history, but even what they do for a

[26:19] living or how they live their life, if

[26:22] they get gel manicures or if they go to

[26:25] tanning beds. Wow.

[26:27] Yeah.

[26:28] Lifestyle.

[26:29] You've got to go into the lifestyle, and

[26:30] don't just talk about today. You've got

[26:33] to get into the history of the

[26:34] lifestyle. How much sun exposure have

[26:36] you had over the years? So, then what

[26:38] climate are you living in? For example,

[26:39] let's look at the UK. The UK is drizzly

[26:42] and raining in winter.

[26:45] But what do the British people do?

[26:47] Partic- They go over to Spain. Oops,

[26:49] let's go lie on the beach, and let's get

[26:51] burnt, okay? So, sometimes you'll get

[26:54] those seasonal burns, which is more

[26:58] prevalent with basal cell carcinoma and

[27:00] melanoma. Then you get people, let's use

[27:03] Arizona, for example, people that live

[27:06] and work in the desert, people doing

[27:08] construction work, road work, farmers,

[27:10] all that kind of stuff. They're exposed

[27:12] to sun all year round. More prone to

[27:14] squamous cell carcinomas. So, lifestyle

[27:17] really matters. Protecting the skin, the

[27:20] medications a person takes, how immune

[27:23] suppressed they are. Yeah, it's just

[27:25] there's a lot of questions that

[27:27] aestheticians can ask. But, I keep

[27:29] saying they need to do year-round

[27:33] marketing on this. Put signs up in your

[27:35] washrooms and just say, "When last did

[27:37] you have a mole check? When last did you

[27:39] have your body checked for sunspots?" If

[27:42] you want to make it user-friendly, just

[27:44] say, "When last did you have that done?"

[27:46] And I am I'm encouraging aestheticians

[27:49] to do mole counting and measuring. We're

[27:52] not diagnosing, we're not saying

[27:54] anything like that. All we're doing is

[27:56] counting and measuring, because some

[27:58] people don't even know how many moles

[28:00] they have on their body.

[28:02] Because of the added risk, fill it out

[28:04] on a form,

[28:05] tell them to take that form and go and

[28:07] see their GP. Highlight any, if you I

[28:10] have an an outline, I do have a little

[28:12] plastic ruler that I have with different

[28:15] millimeter measurements on it, but I

[28:17] have an intake form, which you fill out,

[28:20] which has got a body outline. So, if you

[28:21] see anything unusual, circle it. Give

[28:24] them a copy of it, tell them to take it

[28:26] to their GP. And if anything, take their

[28:29] phone, take photographs of it every

[28:31] time, or you take pictures, send them

[28:33] the pictures so that the doctor can see

[28:35] the changes. Because GPs are not trained

[28:39] in skin cancer. So, a lot of them, if it

[28:41] doesn't look

[28:43] iffy to them, "Oh, you know You know

[28:45] Watch and wait. We'll just see you in 6

[28:47] months and see if anything's changed.

[28:49] Well, if it's an aggressive cancer like

[28:52] melanoma, 6 months can be too late. You

[28:55] can't play with it. You can't play with

[28:57] aggressive cancers. And melanoma is

[28:59] aggressive. Melanoma can metastasize

[29:01] very quickly. And that's why the

[29:04] treatment for melanoma is quite

[29:06] aggressive as well. Now, squamous cell

[29:08] carcinoma can also metastasize.

[29:11] Though basal cell carcinoma doesn't

[29:14] really have it can, but it's slow going

[29:17] and it potential to metastasize is not

[29:19] as great as your squamous cell, but the

[29:21] greatest one is your melanoma.

[29:24] And I know I know several people where

[29:27] we were dealing with metastatic melanoma

[29:30] and it was horrible.

[29:31] Really horrible.

[29:34] I want to go back to something that you

[29:35] said that obviously is

[29:37] very significant for me

[29:39] um as a person with a darker skin tone

[29:42] that there's

[29:44] a lot of misinformation for people with

[29:46] darker skin about their skin cancer

[29:48] risk.

[29:49] Um

[29:51] where do you see

[29:53] that

[29:54] aesthetics can support people with

[29:56] darker skin about protection and

[30:00] detection?

[30:01] I'd say it's the same for all skin

[30:03] types. I would just tell people in

[30:04] general, but when you've got a bigger

[30:06] market with people with a darker skin

[30:08] tone, you really need to do a lot of

[30:11] education for everyone that comes in.

[30:14] And for example, when I say that, I

[30:16] particularly like to say

[30:18] just because you have a darker skin, do

[30:19] you really not need to be checked or

[30:21] something like that? So, it becomes a

[30:24] conversation. I'm always looking for

[30:27] ways to start a conversation with

[30:30] somebody

[30:31] irrespective of their color. But if you

[30:33] really are focusing on darker skin, like

[30:34] if I was in I'm going to pick Maryland

[30:37] for example, because I have one of my

[30:39] trainers who who in Maryland and she is

[30:41] from Africa. And when we talk about

[30:44] people with darker skin, her client base

[30:46] is primarily African Americans coming

[30:49] into the spa. And so, she, like we we've

[30:53] discussed, we have to have marketing

[30:55] information for them that particularly

[30:57] says, "Just because you have a darker

[30:59] skin, just because you've got more

[31:01] melanin in your skin, doesn't absolve

[31:03] you from getting your

[31:04] your skin cancers." And on the other

[31:06] hand,

[31:07] what we have to educate this the

[31:09] aestheticians with lighter skins that

[31:11] only have a client base that's primarily

[31:13] lighter skin.

[31:15] When you're working with somebody with

[31:17] more pigment in their skin, it is harder

[31:19] sometimes to detect because your skin

[31:23] cancers, particularly the melanomas with

[31:26] pigment in, because you can get

[31:27] melanomas too with no pigment. But if

[31:30] you get them with pigment in, sometimes

[31:32] it blends in with the normal skin tone,

[31:34] so you're not actually picking up if

[31:36] there's an anomaly or something there or

[31:38] not.

[31:39] I mean, it's the same thing, but

[31:41] I I don't differentiate between whether

[31:44] you have a much, much darker skin to a

[31:46] light skin. I say across the board,

[31:48] everybody needs to have sun protection.

[31:50] However, those with the darker skin are

[31:52] going to have more protection, but why

[31:55] should they only apply sunscreen once a

[31:57] day, and somebody with a lighter skin

[31:59] needs to reapply it every 1 and 1/2

[32:01] hours? No, apply the same principle

[32:03] right across the board there. I would

[32:05] And I'd say that there does need to be

[32:07] more training for aestheticians to

[32:10] actually learn to recognize any lesions

[32:13] on skins with more pigment in them. So,

[32:17] even just looking at a sebaceous

[32:18] hyperplasia and skin tags and stuff like

[32:21] that, they are differences in color, and

[32:24] that comes with experience as well, and

[32:26] also asking questions. And I think

[32:28] aestheticians without

[32:30] being invasive, you know what? I love

[32:33] the approach, and I was just saying to

[32:34] somebody, "I've never really seen that

[32:36] before. Could you tell me more about it?

[32:38] And I actually put the client in the

[32:40] position of being my educator. If they

[32:42] can give me any like if they perhaps

[32:45] have had a skin cancer or they don't

[32:46] know what it is, I would encourage them

[32:48] to go and see a dermatologist and oh by

[32:50] the way, please come back and tell me

[32:53] what the diagnosis was and give me the

[32:56] medical chart. Don't come back and tell

[32:57] me it was a skin cancer. That doesn't

[33:00] help me at all.

[33:01] So many people do that. Oh, I just had a

[33:03] skin cancer removed. Okay, what kind of

[33:06] skin cancer? Because that makes a huge

[33:09] difference. If you've had And of course,

[33:11] if you've had a history of cancer, this

[33:13] likely that's going to be a person going

[33:15] to get skin cancers in the future. So

[33:17] something that an aesthetician should be

[33:19] looking out for as well. I know my

[33:21] client's had melanoma in the past. I

[33:23] know my client's had basal cell and

[33:25] squamous cell carcinomas in the past.

[33:27] Oh, mom see something strange there. And

[33:30] sometimes even the beginning stages of

[33:31] the squamous cell carcinoma are just

[33:34] scaly bits of skin. Don't just ignore

[33:36] that. If that little bit of scaly skin

[33:39] continues to be there. Actinic keratosis

[33:41] can be also

[33:43] a little bit fluctuating. In the summer

[33:45] months it seems to say hello, I'm here.

[33:47] In the winter months it kind of subsides

[33:49] a bit. So people then are in this false

[33:52] belief, oh it's disappeared. It's not

[33:53] there anymore. And then summer months

[33:55] come and then they got this little bit

[33:57] of scaliness there. And that's an easy

[33:59] thing to sort out. I mean, you know

[34:02] what? If the aesthetician is working in

[34:04] a medical spa or whatever, it's

[34:06] cryotherapy. Cryotherapy is going to

[34:08] actually remove that bit of scaliness.

[34:10] Sometimes topical chemotherapy, even if

[34:13] you don't have any known basal cell

[34:16] squamous cell carcinoma and that,

[34:18] sometimes you can get a topical

[34:19] chemotherapy from your dermatologist and

[34:22] it burns all those cancerous cells away.

[34:25] I'm telling you you look raw and red.

[34:27] You can't have facial, you can't put

[34:29] cream on your skin. You're probably just

[34:30] putting Vaseline for a period of time.

[34:33] But, you know what? You're getting rid

[34:35] of it before it develops into something

[34:37] where you land up having the qualities

[34:39] and you have to have treatment for all

[34:40] this kind of stuff. So, prevention is

[34:42] really important.

[34:44] Okay.

[34:46] So, for aestheticians who work with

[34:48] people who are in treatment, they had

[34:51] chemotherapy,

[34:53] radiation, immunotherapy even.

[34:56] Obviously,

[34:57] probably across those three different

[34:59] treatments, people present differently.

[35:01] But, what do aestheticians need to know

[35:04] and understand about compromised skin

[35:06] and then skin cancer risk in the

[35:09] oncology population?

[35:12] Well, since I since I started training,

[35:14] I've always said when somebody is going

[35:17] through active treatment, there's you

[35:20] there's a couple of different things. If

[35:22] a person has radiation and surgery to a

[35:25] localized area, where is the localized

[35:28] area? Because you can protect the

[35:30] localized area with any creams and stuff

[35:32] like that you need. But, if the person

[35:35] is on systemic treatment like your drug

[35:38] therapies,

[35:39] that person is going to be so much more

[35:42] prone to having a sensitive skin, an

[35:44] irritated skin, a skin that can burn,

[35:47] maybe they might be photo-sensitive

[35:49] because of UV radiation and stuff like

[35:51] that.

[35:52] So, what I've always taught is when

[35:54] somebody goes through active treatment,

[35:56] particularly your drug treatments,

[35:59] you're going to wash the skin. You do

[36:01] need to have a cleanser because you want

[36:03] environmental dirt, you want makeup, you

[36:06] want any sort of drug that could be

[36:08] excreted through the skin, anything that

[36:10] needs to be removed from the skin. Take

[36:13] it all. Wash your face twice a day, but

[36:14] don't And really cleansers only stay on

[36:17] the skin for

[36:18] a minute if that. So, even if somebody

[36:21] likes to use a gel wash that might even

[36:23] have a sulfate in, which I don't

[36:25] encourage because sulfate is a dish wash

[36:28] liquid that it dissolves fat. You want

[36:30] to keep as much fat or lipids in the

[36:32] skin as possible. But anyway, a cream

[36:35] cleanser remove all the stuff you don't

[36:37] need on your skin. Then hydrate it.

[36:40] And then protect it.

[36:42] Use your sun protection.

[36:47] So absolutely necessary and the regime

[36:49] is very simple. During active treatment,

[36:51] sometimes a person might be very

[36:53] overwhelmed with our I've got to

[36:55] remember all my drugs and I've got to

[36:56] remember my appointment and you're

[36:57] asking me to do seven steps of my skin

[37:00] care twice a day, not going to happen.

[37:02] Overwhelmed, tired, all this kind of

[37:05] stuff. Keep it so simple during active

[37:08] treatment. Once a person's finished with

[37:11] active treatment, you can start to

[37:13] rebuild their skin slowly.

[37:16] Test it. Do patch test if you're going

[37:18] to use things like peptides and nice

[37:21] cinnamide and anything to help

[37:23] rejuvenate, restore, and rebuild the

[37:26] skin. Just do it slowly. Don't tell me

[37:29] oh now going to like give her seven

[37:31] steps to do while she's in covered. Just

[37:33] do it slowly because the skin has taken

[37:36] a big beating particularly with chemo.

[37:38] What we're also seeing now with some of

[37:40] the newer drugs, your biological therapy

[37:42] group which is your immunotherapy and

[37:44] targeted therapies and vaccines and

[37:46] stuff like that. The skin is being

[37:47] impacted not as badly as with

[37:49] chemotherapy, but still there's a lot of

[37:52] photo sensitivity and these a lot of

[37:54] these drugs haven't been out for that

[37:56] long. So we're starting to see some of

[37:59] the long term side effects from some of

[38:01] the newer drugs as well. But just be

[38:03] kind to the skin. I mean, at one point

[38:05] in my career it was like you've got to

[38:08] just beat the skin up with chemical

[38:10] peels and micro needling all this.

[38:12] Create a wound because it forces new

[38:14] cells to be regenerated. Well, yes. But

[38:17] your body can only take so much of that.

[38:19] There's a certain limit that your body

[38:21] can take before it's kind of going to

[38:23] Oh, yeah, I'm running out of steam here.

[38:25] So, I'm saying when somebody is so

[38:27] compromised, their skin, their nails,

[38:29] their hair, even mentally, like

[38:31] cognitively, it's just just don't beat

[38:34] your skin up. Don't beat your mind up.

[38:35] Just take it easy, but protect it.

[38:37] Protecting it is really important.

[38:41] In messaging. In messaging. Before we

[38:45] sign off, let's talk a little bit about

[38:47] the profession and the advocacy that you

[38:49] do.

[38:50] Clearly,

[38:53] you want oncology aestheticians to be

[38:56] compensated for the clinical level of

[38:58] their service.

[39:00] How does skin cancer awareness fit into

[39:02] that argument?

[39:05] Oh, that's a two-pronged question. I

[39:08] don't I think the world of oncology, the

[39:12] cancer world, for some reason, cancer

[39:14] support groups, all this kind of thing,

[39:17] seem to think that spa treatments need

[39:19] to be free

[39:20] for cancer survivors.

[39:22] And I don't agree with that. Look, I

[39:24] know cancer can destroy people's

[39:27] livelihoods. There are a lot of cancer

[39:29] survivors that don't have health

[39:31] insurance, and of course, they don't

[39:32] have money to pay for their treatment.

[39:35] Therefore, they don't have money to pay

[39:36] for spa services and stuff like that.

[39:38] But, the medical fraternity haven't

[39:42] taken us very seriously. And this is why

[39:46] I guess they think we can do free

[39:48] services. Like, it's just foo-foo,

[39:51] pretty stuff. But, we need to change our

[39:53] language. We need to We need to start

[39:56] saying, "You you

[39:58] You know what? We can be part of the

[39:59] circle of care. We need to up our ante

[40:02] as far as how we're promoting ourselves

[40:04] and stuff like that. We need to have

[40:05] some self-worth and say, "I am worth

[40:08] that." I also argue with students in my

[40:10] class. Well, I'm not argue. I just

[40:12] suggest to them, "If you're going to

[40:13] give free treatments to people that are

[40:15] going to cancer treatment, why you're

[40:17] not giving free treatments to people

[40:19] going through lupus and rheumatoid

[40:20] arthritis because they're also going

[40:22] through chemotherapy. Why you're not

[40:24] giving free treatments to people with

[40:25] diabetes?

[40:28] So, just think about the aspect of just

[40:32] giving away free things. There are times

[40:34] and places for that.

[40:37] You can do events and you can also do a

[40:40] community thing where you can put the

[40:42] word out to your existing clients and

[40:44] say if you know somebody really can't

[40:45] afford it that could really benefit from

[40:48] I have a quiet day on a Monday

[40:49] afternoon. I'm willing to do once one

[40:52] treatment a month for somebody that

[40:54] really can't do it. But to sit there and

[40:57] look some aestheticians are very

[40:59] empathetic and some like oh I can't be

[41:01] charging them. Also put yourself in a

[41:03] cancer survivor's shoes. Sometimes a

[41:05] cancer survivor has the money and then

[41:08] they don't want you to sympathize and

[41:09] say oh shame just because you're going

[41:11] through cancer I'm not going to charge

[41:13] you.

[41:13] No, I came here expecting to pay. So,

[41:17] there are a couple of different ways to

[41:19] actually look at that but aestheticians

[41:21] not need to start upping the ante as far

[41:25] as the language goes, upping their

[41:27] education and this is where the society

[41:30] for oncology massage the society for

[41:32] oncology aesthetics if we're providing

[41:35] more content for them if we can push for

[41:38] them to get continuing education every

[41:41] year that's going to be a battle with

[41:42] the state boards but you know what those

[41:44] aestheticians that see their value will

[41:48] pay for education and will go and find

[41:51] those cancer survivors to actually work

[41:53] with and get the experience and this

[41:55] puts them in a whole different realm to

[41:58] somebody who might have just finished

[42:00] school and says you know what I'm just

[42:02] going to do our lashes.

[42:04] Okay. So, aestheticians is a broad term.

[42:07] So, somebody that just does our lashes

[42:10] and somebody that really wants to help

[42:11] take care of people with health, whether

[42:13] it's a physical or mental health

[42:15] challenge, it puts you in a whole

[42:17] different ballgame all together.

[42:19] Yeah.

[42:21] Yes, it does.

[42:23] So, thinking about

[42:25] the spa directors and the folks who own

[42:28] these businesses who've never thought

[42:30] about skin cancer as part of

[42:33] their professional responsibility.

[42:36] What's the one thing you want them to

[42:38] leave this episode knowing?

[42:42] They're doing a disservice to their

[42:43] clients.

[42:45] That You know what? Our focus as

[42:48] aestheticians is skin.

[42:51] We need Every aesthetician out there,

[42:54] whether you're employed or whether

[42:55] you're a spa director, you need to know

[42:58] what the skin is about. Somebody the

[42:59] other day said to me, she did this

[43:01] beautiful little slogan about people

[43:04] come to the spa with healthy skins, but

[43:07] then when people go through cancer

[43:08] treatment, that this their skin is

[43:10] impacted with all the treatment for

[43:12] cancer. And

[43:14] whilst I love the little slogan, I don't

[43:16] know how it was written, but I actually

[43:17] said to her, I disagree with that

[43:19] statement, actually, because what is a

[43:21] healthy skin?

[43:24] A baby typically is born with a healthy

[43:26] skin. So, define what a healthy skin is.

[43:29] It's soft, it's moist, it's free from

[43:32] all imperfections.

[43:34] But, with life, as we get older, with

[43:38] our exposure to all sorts of things, our

[43:40] diet, lifestyle, everything impacts the

[43:43] skin. So, people come to the spa because

[43:45] they've got acne, they've got

[43:46] pigmentation, they've got rosacea,

[43:49] they've got aging skin. That's not a

[43:51] healthy skin.

[43:52] However, they are, when you consider

[43:55] them to somebody who has had a diagnosis

[43:58] of cancer, they are considered healthy.

[44:02] And so, a lot of aestheticians actually

[44:04] are greatly misinformed, where they say,

[44:07] "We don't work with sick people." Oh,

[44:10] well.

[44:11] You don't work with sick people? What

[44:13] about these people with these unhealthy

[44:15] skin conditions that you're working

[44:17] with? They may be healthy on the

[44:19] outside, their appearance may be

[44:21] healthy, you don't know what's going on

[44:22] inside of them.

[44:24] But somebody with a cancer diagnosis

[44:26] comes in, and that's why sometimes

[44:28] cancer survivors don't want to talk

[44:29] about it.

[44:31] Sometimes they just want to be pampered,

[44:33] if you want to look at it relaxation and

[44:35] stuff. They don't want to talk about it.

[44:37] But it's a disease, it doesn't mean

[44:39] they're unhealthy, they just developed

[44:41] this disease, and the disease has been

[44:43] treated there.

[44:45] So, it's just a play on words. When

[44:47] somebody says, "I have a healthy skin."

[44:49] Like aestheticians saying to me, "We

[44:51] don't work on sick people." Well, okay,

[44:53] then I think you're in the wrong

[44:55] business, too, because you don't know

[44:57] who is coming into your spa to be a

[45:00] potential client. You don't know who

[45:02] might be an existing client who might

[45:04] land up getting a cancer diagnosis. This

[45:07] is not a business for you if you can't

[45:10] handle a sick client.

[45:12] Mhm.

[45:13] I always say, people don't make

[45:15] decisions about where to get services

[45:17] like massage or

[45:20] aesthetic services based on their health

[45:22] history. They go where we are.

[45:24] So, they seek out the service, you're

[45:26] the provider.

[45:28] That comes with a whole level of

[45:30] responsibility and understanding so that

[45:33] you can keep them as safe as possible

[45:35] and support them however they show up.

[45:39] Yeah, theory cut comes back to the same

[45:41] thing as like we really should have

[45:43] different I know there's a master

[45:45] aesthetician, and then there's they have

[45:47] some little levels there, but they are

[45:50] aestheticians out there, some of them

[45:52] that put themselves through so much

[45:54] training, they get so much experience,

[45:56] they've got so much knowledge. But you

[45:58] see, this is where they lumped into the

[46:00] same category as somebody who might be

[46:02] just doing eyelashes. So,

[46:06] it's not a very balanced field, and we

[46:09] need to have more recognition for those

[46:12] that have spent all this extra time and

[46:14] money in getting educated and stuff like

[46:16] that because there's a real lack in

[46:18] particularly here in North America.

[46:20] Australia's full of skin check clinics

[46:23] or skin spot clinics. You can go to

[46:27] on every street corner, there's a little

[46:30] I don't know if they call it a salon or

[46:32] a spa or a business medical practice,

[46:35] but you can get a skin check.

[46:37] Because with the sun there and skin

[46:39] cancer being so prevalent,

[46:41] but why are we not having them here?

[46:44] Because even in the United States alone,

[46:46] you've got Arizona, Nevada, California,

[46:49] all those states where you've got sun

[46:51] year-round and people getting burnt and

[46:53] the risk of cancer is much higher in

[46:55] those areas. Or if you've got people

[46:57] from Michigan or from Illinois

[47:01] hitting the sun in the summer months and

[47:03] just getting burnt. We need to have more

[47:07] skin checks, and in Australia, a skin

[47:10] check is almost a 50-minute treatment,

[47:14] like full body.

[47:16] Whereas here, I know in Canada, if you

[47:18] see the GP for a check, you might be

[47:20] there for 10 minutes.

[47:22] Right.

[47:23] And how much how thorough is a 10-minute

[47:27] assessment versus a 50-minute

[47:29] assessment?

[47:30] So, I think we still have a long way to

[47:32] go here in North America with regards to

[47:35] skin cancer awareness, skin cancer

[47:37] prevention.

[47:39] I think there's a lot that can be done

[47:41] here. And what surprises me is that

[47:44] people in general, plus companies and

[47:47] stuff like that, plus medical insurance

[47:49] companies, why not just keep pushing for

[47:52] prevention and awareness? Because

[47:54] ultimately you

[47:56] like how much does it cost to treat skin

[47:59] cancers?

[48:02] What does it cost the actual client

[48:03] that's diagnosed? What does it cost the

[48:05] insurance company? What does it cost the

[48:08] hospitals?

[48:09] So, think about all the money that could

[48:12] be saved if people were like really

[48:15] pushed on preventing skin cancers and

[48:17] stuff. Look, it is being done. I mean,

[48:19] here in Canada it gets done, but it's

[48:21] not strong at all. It's not powerful,

[48:24] it's not driven, it's not about. And

[48:26] sometimes you might have to shock

[48:27] people. You might have to say, "You know

[48:29] what? This is what happens, or this is

[48:31] what it looks like when you've just had

[48:32] half your jawline cut out.

[48:34] And this is the deformity you're dealing

[48:36] with. Now, this is what it's going to

[48:38] cost to do this reconstructive surgery.

[48:41] Who's covering it?

[48:43] The person doesn't have medical

[48:44] insurance, she can't pay for it. He or

[48:46] she can't pay for it.

[48:48] And yeah, so then this person sits with

[48:49] a deformity, and then all sorts of other

[48:51] things start to exacerbate at that

[48:53] point.

[48:54] Yeah, we need to do more. We need to

[48:56] stop ignoring the fact that skin cancer

[48:58] is something serious.

[49:00] Um I have clients with skin cancer, and

[49:03] it's amazing to me how they don't

[49:05] consider themselves to be cancer

[49:07] clients.

[49:09] They're like, "Oh, I just have skin

[49:10] cancer." And I'm like,

[49:13] you just said it. You have skin cancer.

[49:16] That's not a small thing.

[49:17] But again, how seriously do we take it?

[49:21] All right, last question.

[49:23] For an aesthetician who's just starting

[49:25] out,

[49:27] what's the single most important thing

[49:30] they can do to be better prepared to

[49:32] serve clients

[49:33] who may be navigating skin cancer?

[49:35] I would say get educated.

[49:39] I honestly would say that, because I

[49:41] can't see how an aesthetician, whether

[49:44] you're a new student, or whether you've

[49:46] somebody been in practice for a while,

[49:48] if you don't know benign lesions, and

[49:50] you don't you don't know different

[49:52] changes in the skin like that and how

[49:54] the skin actually operates even. I mean,

[49:57] there's different levels of damage done

[49:59] to different layers of the skin with

[50:00] your different skin cancers, too.

[50:03] Do people do aestheticians even know

[50:05] that there's a mutation in the actual

[50:08] melanocyte for it to trigger off

[50:10] melanoma?

[50:12] Do aestheticians know that there's a

[50:13] mutation in your um

[50:16] What's that? The second and third layer

[50:18] of the skin up now.

[50:19] I'm having a brain freeze moment. But

[50:21] anyway, there's squamous cells. So,

[50:22] you've got your five layers of the skin.

[50:24] And so, your melanocytes and your basal

[50:27] cells are in the very bottom layer of

[50:29] your skin. And that's where you've got

[50:31] your basal cell and your melanoma being

[50:33] triggered off from mutations there. And

[50:35] then oh, the granulosum layer is one of

[50:37] them. They say they're third one up, I

[50:39] think. But anyway, that's where your

[50:41] squamous cell carcinoma might get a

[50:43] mutation and trigger off squamous cell

[50:45] carcinoma. So, know the skin. Know the

[50:48] lesions on the skin. The benign ones and

[50:50] potential cancerous ones, even though we

[50:53] can't diagnose. Know know what questions

[50:56] to ask the client because if you don't

[50:58] have a history on them

[51:00] and know how to talk to them.

[51:02] Most importantly, communication.

[51:04] Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

[51:07] Wonderful.

[51:09] Thank you. Thank you so much. This has

[51:12] been

[51:13] tremendously informative. I've learned

[51:15] so much and we really appreciate you

[51:17] taking the time to educate our listeners

[51:20] today.

[51:21] No, you're very welcome. I'm sure you

[51:23] did learn something new. I learn

[51:24] something new every time I'm chatting to

[51:26] somebody. So, it's exciting. It's Yeah,

[51:28] so thank you very much again for the

[51:30] interview.

[51:32] Wonderful. Wonderful.

[51:34] Have a great day, collaborators, and I

[51:36] hope you enjoyed today's podcast.