# Does the Person Exist or Not? (English only)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlVCo22Bobc

[00:02] Really, these talks are about daily life, daily living, and how peace can be the underlying current in daily life.
[00:24] What it's pointing at is that our true nature is peace, which means life on a day-to-day basis is available in such a way that peace remains continuous and unbroken, regardless of the circumstance we find ourselves in.
[00:43] Sometimes pleasure, sometimes pain.
[00:47] That's the nature of the flow of life.
[00:51] Flow of life is always changing, which means the change is sometimes going to be in line with our preferences, which means pleasure in the moment, and sometimes that change is going to be
[01:04] out of line with our preferences,
[01:07] which means pain in the moment.
[01:12] So, this idea that life
[01:15] is one day going to be pleasure,
[01:17] pleasure, pleasure, pleasure, pleasure
[01:19] is simply
[01:21] an idealism
[01:23] in the mind
[01:24] based on the idea that we believe that
[01:26] our happiness is to be found in
[01:28] pleasure, pleasure, pleasure, pleasure.
[01:33] The reality of life is that it is
[01:35] pleasure, pain, pleasure, pain in
[01:37] different order and degrees,
[01:40] but never going to be consistently
[01:42] either pleasure or consistently pain.
[01:48] And so, if we realize that our idea is
[01:50] that I need
[01:52] pleasure, pleasure, pleasure in order to
[01:54] be happy, I need the other to do what I
[01:56] want them to do all the time, meaning
[01:58] pleasure,
[01:59] and I need to do
[02:02] what the other wants me to do all the
[02:03] time, which means no pain for the other,
[02:06] Meaning pleasure for me.
[02:10] That idea.
[02:12] If we have that equating to our happiness, then we're going to be frustrated in life.
[02:17] Cuz life is not going to unfold in line with that belief.
[02:30] And the good news is that our happiness isn't available in the way we think it is.
[02:38] So, that formula that says my happiness will be there when one day in the future there is the ultimate pleasure or life is all pleasure.
[02:48] The good news is that that belief is a mistaken belief.
[02:52] Cuz if it wasn't, if it was true, then the conclusion is I can't be happy continuously in life.
[03:07] And so, if happiness isn't to be found in the flow of life, if if happiness isn't to be found by us receiving pleasure continuously, what is human happiness?
[03:20] And the explanation here is human happiness is an attitude to the flow of life.
[03:25] It's how we relate to what happens moment to moment.
[03:31] The attitude that seems to be ingrained in us, in the human population, is an attitude that I am a body, I am separate and in control of everything that happens, and I need pleasure, pleasure, pleasure, pleasure.
[03:50] And that attitude I'm calling the sense of personal doership.
[03:56] And for anyone who doesn't know, this is a photo of Ramesh, who was my teacher.
[04:01] Uh, he lived in India, died in 2009, and a lot of what I share is what he used to share.
[04:07] day to day in his home in Mumbai.
[04:12] And his teaching was so profoundly accurate, as I found it, um, in my relation in my experience, each time I thought I knew a better way of saying it, I was proved wrong.
[04:27] So, now I just say what he said, but based on my own experience.
[04:35] So, it turns out that what he said was just an accurate explanation, an accurate set of descriptions of what is natural to all of us.
[04:45] Whoever realizes their true nature will realize that these descriptions stem from that recognition, and that they are not the truth itself, they are just descriptions of how life is seen from that place.
[05:02] And so, having said that these descriptions come from my own
[05:08] experience, where suffering has fallen away.
[05:12] it's still up to you as individuals to assess whether the concepts are accurate,
[05:19] which requires an investigation for yourself of what is pointed at within the scope of your daily life,
[05:29] and that can actually be quite fun.
[05:32] It just means you go about daily life as you normally would, watching what happens,
[05:42] and if the concepts get taken on board,
[05:45] a certain concept like my unhappiness is suffering in the moment.
[05:52] Suffering arises in the form of guilt and blame, pride, worry, and expectation.
[05:59] So, if the concept that suffering is blame, and suffering is my unhappiness, if that's in the system, when we find ourselves in a situation blaming the
[06:09] other
[06:10] for something that they have done that hurts us,
[06:14] a thought might arise, this is blame.
[06:18] I'm blaming the other for what I believe they have done of their own volition that has hurt me, and I'm relating to that as it's as if it's an attack on who I am,
[06:31] that it's taken away the pleasure that I believe I need,
[06:37] and then we can put a tick next to that comment, next to that concept.
[06:43] We've investigated it for ourself based on our own experience,
[06:48] and that investigation can keep happening in relation to many of the concepts,
[06:53] and slowly, slowly, as we investigate more and more, the concepts go deeper and deeper, and they move from just an intellectual framework to something that is known intuitively.
[07:06] Often the concepts are counter to what we believe to be true.
[07:13] So, as we investigate and see that the concept is true by default, its opposite starts to dissolve.
[07:33] So, what is happiness?
[07:35] Happiness is our attitude to the flow of life.
[07:37] There's one attitude that says I am a separate individual in control of my actions, the other is a separate individual in control of their actions, and I need pleasure, pleasure, pleasure.
[07:46] That's an attitude that leads to suffering.
[07:49] The alternative attitude is an attitude of non-doership, which actually is just the falling away of the attitude of doership, revealing one's true nature, whereby one's true nature just observes, witnesses life unfold moment to moment as it's destined to unfold.
[08:14] From that perspective, it's clear that what the body is doing is part of the flow of life, and that the body is not actually orchestrating the flow of life.
[08:34] So, from that point of view, the other is also part of the flow of life.
[08:39] So, me and the other are now not enemies, but in this together.
[08:45] We're part of the impersonal flow of life as it unfolds moment to moment.
[08:52] Recognizing that whatever pain and whatever pleasure is delivered in the moment is part of the story of life, my destiny, and the destiny of the other.
[09:08] And from that perspective, the other no longer hurts me because of
[09:14] their own volition,
[09:17] but rather it's destiny for life to deliver pain in the moment,
[09:20] and it's seen to be destiny of the other to deliver that pain.
[09:31] And so, the question might arise, on what basis do we see that the other is not in control of their actions?
[09:35] On what basis can we see that I am not in control of my actions, that I am not separate and the other is not separate?
[09:46] From an awakening perspective, where in the moment there is a a moment where consciousness recognizes itself,
[09:53] and it becomes clear that what I am and what I've always been is actually a consciousness in which each moment spontaneously arises.
[10:00] It's known that everything that happens moment to moment is a spontaneous arising and not the doing of any of the objects within the
[10:14] Moment.
[10:16] But that's not necessarily the most fair of rationals to put forward because in the absence of that perspective we just have to believe it blindly.
[10:29] So there is another way of coming to see that myself and the other are not as much in control as we thought we were without an awakening witnessing perspective happening.
[10:43] The rational is the concept is that whatever anyone does in the moment is a result of the circumstance that we find ourself in not in our control.
[10:57] And who we are at that particular point in time.
[11:01] The combination of who we are plus the circumstance we find ourself in results in an action, a thought, a feeling results in whatever happens in the following moment.
[11:15] That what happens, let's say it's a behavior or an action is normally deemed to be my action, my behavior.
[11:25] And if it's a good action the sense of personal doership will feel proud about the good action.
[11:33] And if it's something that leads to pain for the other the sense of personal doership will feel guilty.
[11:46] That sense of personal doership exists because the actual mechanism by which things happens isn't particularly clear.
[11:59] We do whatever we do in the moment as a result of who we are and the circumstance we find ourself in and who we are is a result of our genes and up-to-date conditioning.
[12:11] Now remember this isn't about science because the real explanation is
[12:16] The moment is not my doing because it's a spontaneous divine creation arising in consciousness made of consciousness and recognized by consciousness.
[12:28] Everything that happens is a happening according to the will of God.
[12:33] But because that's not necessarily recognizable, we're putting forward another pointing that is more practical.
[12:43] A pointing that could be seen to be a causal explanation that we can observe and assess for ourself.
[12:52] So this is not about science necessarily.
[12:56] Who we are in the moment as a result of our genes and up-to-date conditioning.
[13:02] Our genetic structure is something that we as the body were not in control of.
[13:07] The body was born to a set of parents that it had no control over being born to and from the moment it was conceived it
[13:18] started undergoing a process of up-to-date conditioning.
[13:24] Life impacted it moment after moment from the point of conception.
[13:31] And that up-to-date conditioning is mhm multi-level.
[13:36] There is um intellectual conditioning, beliefs that are given to the human by society, by family, by school, by friends.
[13:49] There are circumstances that the human being finds themselves in traumatic circumstances, very fun circumstances and all of those experiences in life moment after moment lead to the human being shaped exactly the way they are.
[14:08] An analogy for that is that there's a lump of stone and there's a carver hitting the stone with a hammer and chisel and each time the carver hits the stone,
[14:20] it changes shape slightly.
[14:22] And after thousands of hits the stone is whatever it is and at any point in time the stone is a result of its original makeup plus the up-to-date conditioning that it's received up to that point in time.
[14:41] And that's an analogy for the human being that we are exactly the way that life has made us.
[14:50] We can look at ourselves at any point in time like a chemical that the chemical is designed to be exactly what it is.
[14:58] If you put that chemical with another chemical that is designed to be exactly what it is there's going to be a reaction.
[15:06] And that reaction is not personal.
[15:09] The chemicals don't choose how they react.
[15:12] They react based on their makeup and how they come together.
[15:18] You can have two chemicals that are
[15:20] complementary to each other or two chemicals that create a volatile reaction.
[15:25] And that reaction is a totally impersonal reaction.
[15:31] And so what's being said is that the human being is like a chemical being placed in a certain circumstance and the reaction will be exactly as it is.
[15:43] We can look at the reaction and say and then work back and say this reaction was like that because the person was exactly the way they were at that point in time.
[15:56] With this understanding, we can't consciously say oh I should have acted differently.
[16:04] I should have acted differently is a non-recognition of what's just being described.
[16:10] I should have acted differently is an imagination that I am not who I was but
[16:21] Something different.
[16:23] And that same understanding can be applied to the other.
[16:26] The other acted exactly the way they were designed to act in the situation.
[16:33] So from this point of view, we can see that what I believe to be my action is actually a result of my genes and up-to-date conditioning and the circumstance I find myself in, not my doing, not in my control to be who I am.
[16:54] Someone might say that I chose to go to that school.
[16:58] I chose to be friends with that person.
[17:04] And my suggestion is that that choice was a result of who you were in the circumstance you found yourself in at that point in time.
[17:12] So that choice also not something that could have happened differently.
[17:19] So if we look at life like this, we see
[17:21] that at this point in time, life is as it is because of the Big Bang if we want to have a theoretical explanation of the beginning.
[17:31] That life is a ripple up to this very point in time.
[17:37] That now is always the end result of something impersonal.
[17:52] And when we look at suffering, which is human unhappiness what's it based on?
[18:01] It's based on a belief system, an attitude a relationship to life that takes life completely personal.
[18:16] You hurt me, I hate you.
[18:19] I hurt you, I hate myself.
[18:25] Look at what I did.
[18:25] What a great result.
[18:28] How good am I?
[18:36] And this false sense of self
[18:38] meaning
[18:40] a belief that I am something I'm not,
[18:42] the belief I am the doer when actually
[18:44] life is just happening
[18:46] creates an idea of self that
[18:49] overrides the true nature and that idea
[18:52] of self then has all of these
[18:54] requirements in life.
[18:56] Primarily
[18:58] pleasure
[18:59] at the root of the need for pleasure,
[19:02] really what we're looking for is a need
[19:04] for love.
[19:06] And so one's life then follows a path of
[19:10] shoulds and shouldn'ts
[19:12] based on what we think is the most
[19:14] effective way of trying to control life
[19:18] in order to get what we feel we are
[19:21] lacking
[19:23] in order to fill what feels like an
[19:26] uncomfortableness with oneself.
[19:28] And it is an uncomfortableness with oneself because we've forgotten our true nature.
[19:32] And so if we've forgotten our true nature and come to believe ourselves to be something we're not of course it's going to feel uncomfortable.
[19:42] That uncomfortableness manifests as a sense of lack, self sense of discontentment.
[19:49] And so the movement towards pleasure is simply the conclusion also coming from the same error of what we need in order to be complete and happy.
[20:04] So just recapping life and or suffering exists because life is taken personally and we believe that we need love.
[20:21] The good news once again because this is actually all about good news
[20:27] is that our true nature is love
[20:30] is completeness
[20:33] is peace.
[20:37] And that in being
[20:39] what we are
[20:41] everything is just fine.
[20:45] Nothing needs to change.
[20:48] Nothing in the moment needs to be
[20:50] excluded.
[20:51] Everything fits in perfectly.
[20:54] It's all seen to be a divine creation
[20:58] of duality.
[21:00] On the surface a a duality
[21:03] at depth it's recognized to be a single
[21:05] manifestation a non-dual creation.
[21:09] And they're not opposites. One is the
[21:11] appearance and the other is the
[21:13] fundamental nature. Just like in physics
[21:16] we have mechanical physics which on the
[21:18] surface looks like cause and effect
[21:20] quantum physics which
[21:23] when understood is seen to be
[21:26] totally
[21:28] different to causal
[21:30] and yet the two of them
[21:32] exist together.
[21:35] The scientist who throws out mechanical
[21:37] physics
[21:38] because they hold on to the quantum
[21:40] principles
[21:42] is unable to function
[21:44] in life where mechanical laws
[21:48] apparently are real.
[21:51] And similarly
[21:52] a mechanical physics physician
[21:56] that only sees the mechanics doesn't
[21:58] truly understand the nature of
[22:00] physics.
[22:04] And in the same way life is this paradox
[22:07] that in experience
[22:09] it is an experience of separation and
[22:11] duality.
[22:13] A world where there is health and
[22:15] disease
[22:19] wealth and poverty
[22:21] good and bad big and small male and
[22:23] female.
[22:26] And that's the nature of things.
[22:29] If there's kindness there will be evil.
[22:33] And
[22:35] from a recognition that the nature of
[22:36] life is duality
[22:38] the extremes
[22:40] are not
[22:42] unacceptable opposites
[22:44] but actually seem to be the bookends
[22:46] of the nature of life.
[22:49] So when something terrible happens in
[22:51] life
[22:52] it isn't a nice thing. It doesn't become
[22:56] a good thing but it becomes
[22:57] understandable.
[23:01] So there is no internal resistance
[23:04] to
[23:05] what has happened because it's seen to
[23:07] be part of the story of life
[23:09] and it fits into the understanding that
[23:11] life is a duality in which
[23:13] extremes
[23:16] all fit.
[23:17] Opposite extremes fit.
[23:19] Biologically
[23:21] whatever happens is going to be either
[23:23] pleasurable or painful. Attitudinally
[23:26] it's either going to be resisted or
[23:28] accepted
[23:29] based on
[23:31] the way we see life.
[23:33] If what happens is resisted the
[23:35] resistance says that fundamentally is
[23:38] unacceptable as part of life.
[23:41] That needs to be ejected from life.
[23:46] An attitude that is has stepped outside
[23:49] of the spectrum of good and bad
[23:51] sees that there is a spectrum of good
[23:53] and bad
[23:55] and
[23:56] accepts that that is the nature of the
[23:58] manifestation.
[24:00] Acceptance actually is just the absence
[24:02] of non-acceptance.
[24:45] Um
[24:48] I don't know if this um
[24:51] question is relevant actually to the
[24:54] daily living
[24:56] or if it's just a kind of
[24:58] trying to understand something that I
[25:00] don't need to understand actually.
[25:03] But uh we were talking about the
[25:05] relative purpose of life.
[25:09] Um
[25:11] the purpose of
[25:12] uh
[25:14] the purpose the purpose is to go back to
[25:17] peace.
[25:19] Yes?
[25:21] We Or can you maybe say how how did you
[25:24] express that?
[25:26] It can be expressed like the our purpose
[25:28] is to to return to
[25:31] peace or to ourselves.
[25:33] Yes I would say that that is one answer
[25:35] to what is the purpose of life on the
[25:37] basis that when peace is there
[25:39] seeking Yeah. stops. So so logically
[25:43] that must have been purpose. Yeah. So
[25:46] what is what is the purpose? My question
[25:48] is now is God playing hide and seek
[25:52] somehow? Mhm.
[25:54] And what is the purpose of that play?
[25:57] What is the purpose of actually hiding
[25:59] for
[26:00] for itself? Mhm. For being to manifest
[26:04] in a form that is actually it has kind
[26:08] is is illusioned.
[26:10] Sure. Mhm. So
[26:11] Yeah have you got a um yeah? Yeah. Is
[26:13] there a because in spirituality often
[26:16] this is um
[26:18] there's this explanation God is like
[26:21] trying to get to know himself.
[26:24] Mhm.
[26:25] That's
[26:26] Mhm. Yeah I am
[26:27] What is your answer?
[26:29] So it's this is another this is another
[26:32] answer to the purpose of life
[26:34] but from outside the daily living
[26:38] perspective from outside looking from
[26:40] outside the
[26:41] flow of life.
[26:43] Um
[26:45] Again can you repeat? So this is an
[26:47] answer to the question of
[26:49] what could what
[26:52] how could you explain
[26:54] the purpose of life?
[26:57] But from outside of
[27:00] the flow of life perspective because
[27:02] from from within the flow of life
[27:04] perspective we can say the purpose of
[27:06] life is to
[27:08] be at peace. Yes.
[27:11] So this is um asking the same question
[27:14] but specifically from a different
[27:16] perspective.
[27:18] And
[27:19] having looked at what life having seen
[27:21] what life is the story of life as I see
[27:24] it is a story that has a beginning
[27:26] middle and an end and all of that has
[27:29] already happened. All of life was
[27:32] created in an instant before time
[27:35] started
[27:36] and time and space was actually part of
[27:39] the creation.
[27:41] So time and space themselves are not um
[27:46] uh independent realities but experience
[27:50] is that a or an a framework in which
[27:53] this manifestation
[27:55] is formed
[27:56] or the basic framework of this
[27:58] manifestation.
[28:01] And so
[28:03] seeing the story of life
[28:05] as we can
[28:08] um
[28:09] we can say that
[28:12] source has become
[28:14] this manifestation. So source in its
[28:17] basic form is source at rest.
[28:21] And
[28:23] I would say that that is something that
[28:25] the brain which is uh
[28:28] part of
[28:29] this manifestation
[28:31] based on time and space
[28:33] can't actually understand what the
[28:35] unmanifest is because the unmanifest is
[28:37] the total absence
[28:39] of everything including time and space.
[28:42] So it's like the whole universe has
[28:44] shrunk to a pinpoint
[28:47] and then even the pinpoint has
[28:48] disappeared.
[28:50] And what's left is absolute nothing not
[28:53] space in which the pinpoint the pinpoint
[28:55] was all of time and space.
[28:57] And then even that disappears.
[28:59] So the brain
[29:01] can have trouble understanding the
[29:03] unmanifest and it's not particularly
[29:04] important that we understand the unman
[29:07] understand the unmanifest other than to
[29:09] understand that it's theoretically
[29:12] source at rest in its most basic form.
[29:16] And because we can see source in
[29:18] movement which is this experience of
[29:20] life
[29:23] then
[29:24] my description of source at rest is
[29:28] immense creative potentiality.
[29:31] So not dead nothing but potentiality.
[29:35] And at some point because it's
[29:36] potentiality it's forced to explode into
[29:38] manifestation.
[29:40] And this manifestation is the explosion
[29:43] and the story as it unfolds is the story
[29:46] of manifestation that source has become.
[29:49] So, source is not out there looking in
[29:51] as something separate. The creation is
[29:53] not a creation that it has created
[29:56] outside of itself, but rather source at
[29:58] rest has become source in movement.
[30:01] And as we observe the story of life,
[30:05] especially from a spiritual
[30:07] um path perspective,
[30:10] there is
[30:11] an identification
[30:13] with an object within the story, which
[30:15] is the body.
[30:17] An identification in such a way that
[30:19] there is a forgetting of
[30:21] the true nature of source as
[30:23] consciousness.
[30:25] Um
[30:26] an identification with being the body,
[30:29] being vulnerable, needing all of these
[30:31] things, taking life personally,
[30:33] experiencing suffering,
[30:35] experiencing itself as separate from the
[30:37] other, and experiencing life as a
[30:40] duality without the recognition of the
[30:43] fundamental
[30:44] nature of life as a non-duality.
[30:48] And then at some point,
[30:50] the story introduces new concepts that
[30:55] wear away at the beliefs that have been
[30:58] put in place by the story of life in
[31:00] order for the forgetting to happen.
[31:03] Wear away at those beliefs until there
[31:06] is a an awakening
[31:08] to
[31:09] itself, to the nature of source.
[31:12] And then that awakening integrates over
[31:15] a period of time into embodied living as
[31:18] the human being
[31:20] as if I am the body,
[31:23] but with a totally
[31:25] fresh perspective of what the essence of
[31:27] the human being is.
[31:29] With the day-to-day, moment-to-moment
[31:31] awareness that what I am is
[31:33] consciousness
[31:35] functioning through a biological
[31:37] vehicle,
[31:38] and yet that the combination of
[31:40] consciousness functioning through the
[31:42] biological vehicle
[31:44] equals the person.
[31:47] And so, for the rest of my life, life
[31:49] will be lived as if I am the person. In
[31:53] other words, spirit or consciousness
[31:55] source having a human being experience.
[31:59] And so, if we look at that, we can say
[32:01] that the purpose of this manifestation
[32:04] is
[32:05] for source to experience something that
[32:08] it can never actually be.
[32:11] For source to experience for a while
[32:14] being something separate, something
[32:16] vulnerable, something that can be
[32:19] attacked by others, something outside of
[32:22] itself.
[32:24] Whereas, in fact, the nature of source
[32:25] is oneness.
[32:27] There is nothing outside of it, nothing
[32:28] that it can be harmed by. It can never
[32:31] be incomplete.
[32:33] And yet, it's created a world and
[32:34] identified to an object in the world
[32:37] where it's very clear that the
[32:39] experience is of separation, is of
[32:42] suffering,
[32:44] um including all of the pleasure and
[32:46] pain that comes in life.
[32:49] And after having experienced something
[32:51] it can never be within the story of
[32:53] life, it brings about an awakening,
[32:55] which is a realization of itself
[32:58] within the manifestation, and then a
[33:01] living as the human being without
[33:03] suffering.
[33:06] So, really, why not?
[33:21] Bring in some action.
[33:24] We can understand it from our own mind
[33:26] view.
[33:28] Yeah, I hope so.
[33:30] And you know, source at rest
[33:33] wants some action, it seems.
[33:36] What?
[33:37] Source at rest
[33:39] wants some action, it seems.
[33:42] And at the end of the day, when it's all
[33:44] said and done,
[33:46] source starts
[33:48] as nothing and ends at nothing. So,
[33:50] really, nothing has ever happened.
[33:55] Except for an experience.
[33:57] And the very nature of experience
[34:00] means that it's not reality, but
[34:02] illusion or experience. It's relative.
[34:05] It comes and it goes. It has a beginning
[34:06] and an end.
[34:07] This just seems from a a human
[34:10] perspective to be a massive experience.
[34:14] Or maybe it just seemed to be this
[34:16] momentary experience, moment to moment.
[34:18] Whether it's seen to be momentary or
[34:21] 6 billion years,
[34:23] whatever, 600 billion years long.
[34:28] In relation to
[34:31] consciousness at rest, the unmanifest,
[34:34] it's just a blink in the eye.
[34:36] And not even that, because it starts at
[34:38] absolute nothing, ends at absolute
[34:40] nothing, which means
[34:42] in reality,
[34:44] nothing has happened.
[34:48] But anyway, that's not depressing at
[34:50] all.
[34:50] The fact is that we get to experience
[34:53] this, which is the human experience.
[35:00] Which is an amazingly deep
[35:03] experience that has many, many levels,
[35:06] profound
[35:08] levels of experience.
[35:13] And so, this attitude of non-doership
[35:14] doesn't mean that we'll sit on the couch
[35:16] and do nothing.
[35:17] It means that we'll allow life to unfold
[35:20] exactly as it's destined to unfold,
[35:23] recognizing that
[35:25] it's all a story according to the will
[35:28] of God.
[35:30] And
[35:32] if the mind that is controlling
[35:36] subsides,
[35:37] as we spoke about earlier, there's a way
[35:39] of
[35:40] flowing through life not from shoulds
[35:42] and shouldn'ts, which are the
[35:43] restricting factor, but from a place in
[35:46] the body where instruction is received
[35:49] moment after moment as to what to do
[35:51] next.
[35:53] That instruction is not infallible
[35:55] instruction. It's not instruction that
[35:56] is going to lead to pleasure, pleasure,
[35:58] pleasure, pleasure.
[36:00] But it's an instruction, a place of
[36:02] instruction,
[36:04] whereby
[36:06] the body is receiving
[36:09] direction as to where it feels like
[36:12] what it feels like doing next.
[36:15] It's
[36:16] an impulse that just arises like a
[36:18] thought,
[36:20] not my doing.
[36:23] I have to wait and I have to ask myself,
[36:25] what do I feel like doing next?
[36:29] And the answer
[36:30] comes from feeling what the impulse that
[36:34] is there, what the feeling that is there
[36:36] is telling us.
[36:39] So, I get an answer to the question,
[36:40] what do I feel like doing?
[36:43] But that answer comes from an impulse
[36:45] that I'm not creating.
[36:48] And so, that's the paradox again, is
[36:50] that there is a sense of being free
[36:53] to do whatever I feel like doing,
[36:57] and yet
[36:58] knowing that what I feel like doing is
[37:00] not my creation.
[37:02] And it's from this point of view that
[37:03] God's will and my will
[37:05] no longer seem like opposites.
[37:15] So, practically, how do I live my life
[37:18] knowing that everything is
[37:19] predetermined? Very simply, in any
[37:22] moment, do exactly what you feel like
[37:23] doing.
[37:24] Knowing that what you feel like doing
[37:27] is
[37:29] what is destined to be there in that
[37:31] moment.
[37:32] The action that follows is destined to
[37:34] be there, and the outcome is never in
[37:36] our control.
[37:37] Sometimes we get what we want, sometimes
[37:39] we don't.
[37:40] And sometimes
[37:42] we get much better than we expect.
[37:46] So, Ramesh would say, do in any moment
[37:48] what you feel like doing, then sit back,
[37:50] relax,
[37:52] with no regrets in the past,
[37:54] no expectations in the future,
[37:57] and no complaints in the present.
[37:59] And just see what happens.
[38:03] The thinking mind thinks, if I
[38:05] act like this,
[38:07] I'm going to be irresponsible. I'm not
[38:09] going to get what I want. Life is going
[38:11] to be a disaster.
[38:13] What if everyone acted like this?
[38:16] The irony is that in the absence of the
[38:19] sense of personal doership, which is
[38:21] what creates all the competition, all
[38:23] the hatred, all the greed in life,
[38:26] our true nature is actually very
[38:28] intelligent, very altruistic, very
[38:31] in flow with
[38:34] an efficient unfolding of life.
[38:38] And if
[38:41] life inserts the impulse that is strong
[38:44] enough to let go of what I should and
[38:47] shouldn't, because it just feels so
[38:48] unnatural to keep going with these
[38:51] shoulds and shouldn'ts, what my parents
[38:52] have said I should do, what society says
[38:54] I should do, what my beliefs about what
[38:56] will make me happy say I should do.
[38:59] If life brings about
[39:02] a
[39:03] uh imbalance between what I feel like
[39:05] and what I should do, such that I start
[39:07] following what I feel like doing,
[39:10] we can be amazed at how efficiently life
[39:13] flows,
[39:14] how abundant
[39:15] life is,
[39:18] and
[39:19] how we see the other
[39:22] as a friend and a neighbor, rather than
[39:24] as an enemy and a competitor.
[39:32] Yes.
[39:33] I know.
[39:36] I'm just a bit confused about
[39:38] do you say that there's a master plan,
[39:40] or do you say that
[39:42] that we create the planets we go along
[39:43] if we follow our impulses? Mhm. Because
[39:46] I see it different kind of
[39:49] Yeah.
[39:49] awareness folding out in those things.
[39:51] You can take this life is a paradox, and
[39:55] so it's not one or the other, but both.
[39:58] Can you hold both of those as
[40:00] complementaries instead of
[40:02] contradictions?
[40:06] Can it be that
[40:08] how
[40:10] God's will or how life is a
[40:12] predetermined creation unfolds
[40:16] is through in each moment you and I
[40:19] doing exactly what we feel like?
[40:24] Which means that what we feel like is
[40:26] what is destined to happen.
[40:28] And yet
[40:29] we don't feel like slaves.
[40:33] And so to me free will
[40:35] and predestination are not opposites.
[40:39] Free will is a description of the
[40:40] feeling in the moment.
[40:42] I feel like I am free to do whatever I
[40:44] want.
[40:45] And we are.
[40:47] It just so happens that what you feel
[40:48] like doing is God's will.
[40:55] And if I can prolong that one, we're not
[40:57] separate. That's So that it's true.
[41:01] But it's not the person's free will.
[41:03] But it's being free from the person.
[41:05] Free from the person and yet still
[41:07] having a person experience? Yes. Which
[41:10] is this
[41:11] which why that happens, I agree. Why I
[41:15] think it happens is
[41:16] um based on
[41:18] the explanation that what we are is what
[41:21] we are as a human being, what the human
[41:22] being is is impersonal consciousness,
[41:25] the consciousness of source
[41:27] linked to an object, the body Mhm. and
[41:31] functioning through that object as
[41:32] personal consciousness. Mhm.
[41:35] The analogy would be a red filter
[41:39] and white light on one side
[41:42] which you could say is the impersonal
[41:44] source
[41:45] and then red light coming out of the
[41:47] other side of the filter.
[41:49] And the filter is the human
[41:51] instrument, the vehicle.
[41:53] It is white light that goes in and red
[41:56] light that comes out. And what actually
[41:58] comes out is the personal
[42:01] but it's known that the person the
[42:02] essence of the personal is actually the
[42:04] impersonal.
[42:05] And so
[42:07] the impersonal and the personal the
[42:09] impersonal doesn't ever stop anywhere.
[42:12] It just transitions into the personal,
[42:14] so there isn't two.
[42:17] And the
[42:19] junction point between the impersonal
[42:21] and the personal
[42:23] is the impersonal sense of I am.
[42:27] That is where God consciousness becomes
[42:30] personal consciousness, and then the
[42:31] recognition is that personal
[42:33] consciousness is still
[42:34] God consciousness in a personal form.
[42:37] That what Roger is is
[42:40] source
[42:41] and
[42:42] what An- Annelise is source
[42:46] functioning through two and 20 and 6
[42:49] billion
[42:50] different vehicles experiencing the one
[42:53] creation from 6 billion different
[42:56] perspectives. Mhm.
[42:58] Yes. But the only perspective that I
[43:01] will ever know
[43:02] is Roger's perspective
[43:05] except for in some peak experience where
[43:07] for a moment
[43:10] it can become experienced that I am
[43:13] having an experience from a different
[43:15] perspective than Roger.
[43:18] Some experiences will make me feel like
[43:20] I am the tree.
[43:22] That's not meant to be how life is
[43:24] lived.
[43:25] I'm meant to live as Roger.
[43:27] There are profound experiences that can
[43:29] happen
[43:30] for the fun of it to demonstrate the
[43:33] nature of life to us.
[43:36] But they too are meant to be temporary
[43:37] and
[43:38] come and go.
[43:40] And at the end of the day when
[43:42] the nature of life is seen with the help
[43:44] of these experiences
[43:46] we still get to live the rest of our
[43:48] life as Roger, meaning that God
[43:50] functioning through this body is having
[43:53] a Roger experience that I'm aware of.
[43:55] God's not having a Roger experience
[43:57] simultaneous to Roger having a Roger
[43:59] experience.
[44:01] God's not up there
[44:03] experiencing Roger's experience while
[44:05] Roger is experiencing Roger's
[44:06] experience.
[44:08] The experience I'm having right now
[44:11] is the same experience that God is
[44:13] having because
[44:14] that's what Roger is, but not in
[44:17] I am God complex way. No.
[44:20] Just in a very ordinary way that the
[44:22] experience you're having right now
[44:25] is the experience that God's having from
[44:27] that perspective.
[44:31] And so Roger as God simply he doesn't
[44:33] have any God powers.
[44:35] I can't manifest things. I can't change
[44:38] the nature of reality. I can't bring
[44:40] about what I want.
[44:44] I'm God as awareness in the sense of
[44:48] existence.
[44:49] That is the aspect of God that is ever
[44:51] present in daily life.
[44:53] Awareness in the sense of existence.
[44:57] Impersonal I am
[44:59] and awareness
[45:00] that when it's
[45:04] it comes through the body instrument
[45:07] that impersonal I am
[45:09] is
[45:10] felt as I am Roger, the body.
[45:14] And that feeling I am Roger the body is
[45:17] not what creates suffering. It's the
[45:19] accompanying beliefs that
[45:21] disconnect or break the recognition of
[45:24] the connection to source. And when the
[45:26] beliefs have broken the recognition of
[45:28] the connection to source
[45:30] then the feeling is
[45:32] I am Roger the body disconnected
[45:36] separate.
[45:38] And that's where
[45:40] suffering comes from.
[45:44] Yes.
[45:55] So this whole experience is like we come
[45:58] from nothing and it ends up with
[45:59] nothing.
[46:01] But still
[46:02] still there is um
[46:05] we have
[46:06] from one perspective we have the linear
[46:10] viewpoint talking about the past and
[46:12] until now and so forth.
[46:14] I'm very curious what the awakened
[46:17] masters says about our actual future
[46:20] when we talk timeline wise.
[46:23] Is there a
[46:24] is there a you know, an amount of
[46:27] certain amount of years before this and
[46:29] that happens? What do they say about
[46:33] awakening people and removing all the
[46:35] suffering in the world? How long time is
[46:37] it going to take actually? That's what I
[46:39] want to know.
[46:45] Haven't got all day.
[46:52] Mhm.
[46:55] Yeah. So you see from the absolute
[46:57] perspective it's saying we're all
[46:59] already enlightened.
[47:01] Our true nature exists right here, right
[47:03] now.
[47:04] The idea that there is somewhere to go,
[47:07] that this will happen in the future
[47:09] is all part of the problem. It's a
[47:12] belief in time and space which is um
[47:15] a non-recognition of our timeless
[47:17] nature.
[47:18] So specific teachings
[47:20] which are very powerful awakening
[47:22] teachings will continually
[47:25] break down any question that is a
[47:27] time-based question.
[47:30] It says you don't have to go anywhere.
[47:33] Enlightenment is available right here,
[47:35] right now. And it's true. At some point
[47:37] it happens now.
[47:40] It only ever happens now when it
[47:42] happens.
[47:45] And when it happens the recognition is
[47:48] what I've always been is this.
[47:54] I haven't gone anywhere.
[47:56] I haven't gained anything.
[47:58] And that's the cosmic joke when it's
[47:59] recognized.
[48:01] That
[48:02] for a whole lifetime what I've been is
[48:05] this
[48:06] that is complete and full
[48:09] and yet the experience was of that.
[48:16] Or I am that
[48:18] and I thought I was
[48:20] something else.
[48:26] So don't forget
[48:27] that side of it.
[48:31] That there is no way to go and nothing
[48:32] to do.
[48:35] That what we are
[48:37] in essence is right here. And so
[48:39] pointing to the fact that
[48:41] God is experiencing
[48:44] life right here moment to moment.
[48:47] That's starting to point, you know,
[48:49] we're pointing inwards now
[48:52] instead of looking outwards.
[48:54] Um
[48:56] this is it. This is all there is right
[48:58] now.
[49:01] This experience right now
[49:03] the idea that
[49:05] an experience in two years time will be
[49:08] the you know, what I'm waiting for
[49:12] that's covering up what's here right
[49:15] now. We're saying this is not good
[49:16] enough.
[49:18] And
[49:19] that will be the essence of
[49:21] this moment
[49:23] is the same
[49:24] essence as every moment because every
[49:26] moment actually arises in the present
[49:28] now, and the background of the now is
[49:31] always the same one consciousness
[49:34] that recognizes all the objects that are
[49:36] in it
[49:37] which make up the experience as we
[49:40] experience it. So, in this moment there
[49:42] are lots of body objects and cushions
[49:44] and tables and cameras and lights and
[49:47] trees.
[49:49] Walls, Marilyn Monroe.
[49:51] Um
[49:52] that's now
[49:54] on the background of awareness that
[49:55] recognizes now and whatever the
[49:57] experience is as it changes is always
[49:59] recognized by that same background of
[50:02] awareness which is what we are.
[50:06] And realization happens now when the
[50:09] essence of self recognizes itself.
[50:18] We don't know when that's going to be
[50:21] but it's always now.
[50:30] It'll happen when the storyline
[50:33] dictates it happen. And so, even in the
[50:36] words I'm using someone could say, "What
[50:37] storyline?" Storyline equals time.
[50:40] That's right. There is no storyline.
[50:43] The storyline is a story that is
[50:46] immediate, has no beginning and no end.
[50:48] This is it, this moment.
[50:55] And yet, there's another side to it
[50:57] which is the experience of life is
[50:59] designed to be an experience of time and
[51:01] space
[51:02] an experience of cause and effect
[51:04] an experience that in the present moment
[51:06] includes a memory of
[51:09] yesterday and the day before and 5 years
[51:11] ago.
[51:12] And those memories which are just
[51:14] thought objects in this moment create
[51:16] the impression of linear time.
[51:19] Create the impression of a yesterday and
[51:22] a past. And the thoughts of future
[51:25] create the impression of somewhere to
[51:27] go.
[51:28] And that actually isn't the problem.
[51:32] Enlightened the enlightened perspective
[51:37] acknowledges that is
[51:39] the way that this
[51:42] manifestation, this experience of life
[51:44] has been designed to be lived.
[51:46] So, for a while while we are coming to
[51:49] understand that time and space actually
[51:51] is illusory in nature
[51:53] we sort of have to talk a little funny.
[51:58] We have to talk in the passive tense.
[52:01] Eating is happening.
[52:04] Sleeping is happening.
[52:07] When someone says, "What did you do
[52:09] yesterday?" We say, "There is no
[52:10] yesterday. There's no tomorrow. All
[52:12] there is is now."
[52:23] And that language
[52:25] that happens in order for us to break
[52:28] the belief in time and space.
[52:30] And then at some point when the belief
[52:32] in time and space is broken, we can see
[52:35] the present moment, everything is right
[52:36] now.
[52:37] And then still introduce
[52:42] an idea of time and space without it
[52:44] turning into a belief. So, then when
[52:46] someone says, "Would you like to go out
[52:48] for dinner tonight?"
[52:49] Say, "Yeah, sure. That sounds nice."
[52:51] "What did you do yesterday?" I went to
[52:53] the beach and it was really great.
[52:56] Mhm.
[52:56] Because we're meant to live as if we are
[52:59] the body
[53:01] and as if we are living in a world of
[53:03] time and space.
[53:06] And yet
[53:10] not be fooled
[53:12] into forgetting our true nature.
[53:17] And it also this story of life unfolds
[53:20] such that it seems like there is a
[53:22] spiritual path and that there is a
[53:23] spiritual seeker that someone starts and
[53:26] then go for 1 year and 2 years and go to
[53:28] this course and that course and this
[53:30] course seems to do something that makes
[53:32] them, you know, more able to be aware
[53:35] and then that makes them go to another
[53:37] course and so on and so forth. And then
[53:39] one day
[53:41] bang
[53:43] there's an awakening to the nature of
[53:45] self.
[53:46] And
[53:47] in that instance it becomes clear that
[53:49] time and space doesn't exist. What I am
[53:51] is
[53:51] not form.
[53:53] Um always have been this, never have
[53:56] been anything different. That's the big
[53:57] joke.
[54:03] And yet we can't deny that there is
[54:05] apparently a process.
[54:09] Once again, holding the two
[54:12] um aspects together to create the
[54:16] to to see this life, this illusion as a
[54:19] paradox. And the paradox is
[54:22] a
[54:24] non-dual duality.
[54:33] The nature is non-duality but what has
[54:35] been
[54:36] manifested in the non-dual is a
[54:39] dual experience.
[54:42] And it's always going to be a dual
[54:44] experience. As we spoke about this
[54:46] morning, there's always going to be the
[54:48] sense that the body is separate from the
[54:50] table.
[54:52] What fools away is the attitudinal
[54:54] separation.
[54:55] But the experientially the separation
[54:58] between the body and the table, the body
[54:59] and the other bodies
[55:02] is going to remain.
[55:05] So, the idea that enlightenment is this
[55:08] continuous oneness, profound oneness
[55:10] state is one of the obstacles
[55:14] in the spirit that gets put in place in
[55:16] the spiritual search.
[55:18] It gets put in place on purpose to break
[55:21] away
[55:22] the belief in
[55:24] life being a reality.
[55:28] And then that
[55:30] idea that what we're waiting for is
[55:33] continuous non-dual profound experience
[55:35] then even that gets
[55:37] broken away.
[55:39] And the peak experiences stop happening.
[55:42] And life becomes very ordinary again.
[55:47] But in a very extraordinary way.
[55:49] But no suffering
[55:51] accompanies the flow of life even when
[55:55] pain is part of the flow of life.
[56:00] And when that's experienced on a
[56:02] continuous unbroken basis,
[56:04] experientially we know that's all I ever
[56:06] wanted.
[56:09] That the only problem is the sense of
[56:11] uncomfortableness with oneself
[56:13] as it arises in life
[56:15] the sense of uncomfortableness with the
[56:17] other as it arises in life which creates
[56:19] a
[56:20] conflict between me and the other,
[56:22] creates competition, enmity.
[56:27] And in this way we're all universal
[56:29] brothers
[56:32] and sisters.
[56:55] No reason, this is paraphrasing Ramesh
[56:58] as I do often.
[57:00] No reason to be pessimistic. Life has
[57:02] taken us this far.
[57:04] Life has put us
[57:06] in this situation
[57:08] on a Sunday afternoon
[57:11] in an environment where life is
[57:14] reconditioning, bringing about
[57:17] a change
[57:19] through new concepts
[57:21] that life is
[57:22] putting into the system, not my doing,
[57:24] not your doing.
[57:25] You didn't know what I was going to say,
[57:27] turned up because of an impulse to turn
[57:29] up.
[57:33] And how
[57:36] that new conditioning impacts the
[57:39] existing conditioning
[57:41] not in my control, not in your control.
[57:45] But
[57:46] why has life put us here?
[57:52] Could easily have had us down at the
[57:53] pub.
[57:57] And yet, the realization is when there's
[58:00] nothing that I need to do
[58:04] a relaxation in going to the pub instead
[58:07] of spending every Sunday afternoon in
[58:10] satsang
[58:12] is actually a step closer to
[58:15] realization. It's a step closer
[58:18] a step away from the idea I need to
[58:21] work hard, I need to improve myself.
[58:24] It's like, "Oh, I can just relax.
[58:27] Enjoy life.
[58:28] Do in each moment what I feel I should
[58:31] do.
[58:32] Hopefully
[58:34] not coming from a set of beliefs of
[58:36] should and shouldn't.
[58:38] Just follow a flow
[58:42] that we've often lost contact with.
[58:48] Just the awareness that, oh, maybe I
[58:50] should act from a different place.
[58:55] My current
[58:57] rules
[59:00] I've been following them for long enough
[59:02] and
[59:03] they just keep delivering more of the
[59:04] same.
[59:08] Mhm.
[59:19] So, nothing here at all ever, even if it
[59:23] sounds like it
[59:25] is a prescription of something to do.
[59:28] Mhm.
[59:29] Not the If I think about every single
[59:32] word I've ever said,
[59:34] it's never a prescription of something
[59:36] to do, but always just a description
[59:40] of what life is
[59:42] and what might happen in the flow of
[59:45] life.
[59:55] But you do give one instruction, right?
[59:57] And which is to observe. Right? I mean,
[01:00:00] can you not call that an an instruction?
[01:00:03] It's a description of what might happen
[01:00:05] as a result of one's up-to-date
[01:00:07] conditioning.
[01:00:08] Okay, so yeah.
[01:00:13] Not your doing.
[01:00:18] But if a if observation happens,
[01:00:21] that's a great happening in the flow of
[01:00:23] life relative to peace
[01:00:26] being closer.
[01:00:29] So the description is
[01:00:32] peace
[01:00:33] and witnessing are synonymous with each
[01:00:36] other. Suffering and involvement are
[01:00:38] synonymous with each other.
[01:00:40] So if witnessing happens, not your
[01:00:42] doing,
[01:00:44] just a happening in the moment,
[01:00:46] then
[01:00:47] relative to the benchmark of peace.
[01:00:51] So
[01:00:53] the conditioning
[01:00:54] comes into the body
[01:00:56] that says
[01:00:58] watch, witness.
[01:01:00] And if suffering is there and the
[01:01:03] thought arises,
[01:01:05] can what is watching the suffering? What
[01:01:07] is aware of the suffering?
[01:01:10] Then what can happen in that moment as a
[01:01:12] result of the thought is that a
[01:01:14] witnessing of the suffering happens.
[01:01:17] And that whole process, the suffering
[01:01:19] being there, the thought saying what is
[01:01:23] aware of the suffering, and then the
[01:01:24] subsequent
[01:01:26] witnessing of the suffering, none of
[01:01:28] that is something that anyone does, but
[01:01:31] rather
[01:01:33] all of it is a happening that arises
[01:01:35] moment from moment to moment.
[01:01:45] So the idea is that you're
[01:01:47] describing the world in a way
[01:01:51] so that to make it more likely for us to
[01:01:57] think in a way that reduces
[01:02:01] suffering.
[01:02:06] Except that I don't see that I'm doing
[01:02:08] anything, but rather life is
[01:02:12] functioning through
[01:02:14] instrument like it is through everyone
[01:02:16] else, delivering certain concepts, which
[01:02:18] is life delivering conditioning to
[01:02:20] another object,
[01:02:22] life conditioning that object that then
[01:02:24] will react to life exactly as life has
[01:02:26] conditioned it to act. And so in an
[01:02:29] impersonal way, being in
[01:02:32] in the midst of these concepts
[01:02:35] is conditioning that could
[01:02:38] lead to
[01:02:40] less suffering, but not
[01:02:43] because we think, I think you said, lead
[01:02:46] to a certain to a type of thinking
[01:02:50] that equals less suffering, but actually
[01:02:52] it leads to the dissolving of the type
[01:02:54] of thinking that is suffering.
[01:02:58] So these concepts actually dissolve the
[01:03:01] suffering. And what is left is not
[01:03:03] positive thinking or peaceful thinking,
[01:03:06] it's our true nature.
[01:03:08] So this whole process is a process of
[01:03:11] dissolving, not adding.
[01:03:15] And yet in order to dissolve, it seems
[01:03:17] like life needs to add some concepts.
[01:03:36] It's very difficult to understand.
[01:03:43] I mean, the relationship to choices.
[01:03:47] I mean, it
[01:03:48] it just looks a lot
[01:03:51] like
[01:03:52] we're choosing.
[01:03:57] And to like to completely get rid of
[01:04:00] that
[01:04:01] as not useful, that whole idea.
[01:04:05] It just What would happen if you dropped
[01:04:07] the idea that you were choosing?
[01:04:09] Well, that's still a choice that I make.
[01:04:12] To choose to drop the idea. I mean
[01:04:15] Well, unless we don't actually have
[01:04:19] choice unless choice just happens. So
[01:04:23] it's pedantics at this point. So let's
[01:04:25] say you choose to drop the idea.
[01:04:29] What would it mean that the idea has
[01:04:31] been dropped?
[01:04:38] I don't know.
[01:04:40] The brain says if I drop the idea that I
[01:04:43] choose, then
[01:04:45] choosing would stop.
[01:05:02] But ultimately the mechanism that should
[01:05:06] reduce suffering is ultimately
[01:05:09] knowledge, just knowing
[01:05:11] more about this description of the
[01:05:13] world.
[01:05:15] I suppose Yeah. So if we No, ultimately
[01:05:19] no, it's not knowledge.
[01:05:21] It's one's true
[01:05:22] This is, right? One's true One's true
[01:05:24] nature ultimately delivers peace, but
[01:05:28] concepts
[01:05:29] accurate concepts
[01:05:31] have the effect of going to work and
[01:05:35] attacking
[01:05:36] the inaccurate concepts.
[01:05:38] And then the accurate concepts have a
[01:05:40] self-destruct mechanism within them,
[01:05:43] where they start to attack themselves
[01:05:46] and dissolve themself.
[01:05:49] Which then means we get left with
[01:05:52] just what is and no beliefs.
[01:06:05] So my description is that choice
[01:06:06] happens, not your doing, not my doing,
[01:06:09] but a reaction to our genes and
[01:06:11] up-to-date conditioning.
[01:06:13] Also suggesting that the sense of
[01:06:15] personal doership that has a whole set
[01:06:17] of ideas about the nature of life that
[01:06:20] turns what is an impersonal happening
[01:06:22] into a personal
[01:06:24] or
[01:06:25] turns it into what is seen as a personal
[01:06:28] happening,
[01:06:29] that too is part of our genes and
[01:06:32] up-to-date conditioning.
[01:06:33] And so life dissolves a certain part of
[01:06:36] our genes and up-to-date conditioning,
[01:06:38] which is the sense of personal doership,
[01:06:40] and leaves in place the biological genes
[01:06:43] and up-to-date conditioning.
[01:06:45] And so with the absence of the
[01:06:47] psychological sense of personal
[01:06:49] doership,
[01:06:50] when that's been dissolved, what's left
[01:06:52] is the biological genes and up-to-date
[01:06:54] conditioning, which includes the
[01:06:56] conditioning of how to walk, how to use
[01:06:59] a knife and fork, how to speak language,
[01:07:02] all of that's conditioning and it has no
[01:07:04] impact, how to calculate things,
[01:07:07] names of flowers and pots and all of
[01:07:09] that, all conditioning that has no
[01:07:12] impact on our peace,
[01:07:15] our peace of mind.
[01:07:17] Our true nature is not obstructed by
[01:07:19] that type of thinking, it's only
[01:07:20] obstructed by the type of thinking which
[01:07:22] is an identity of self,
[01:07:25] an idea of who we are that is false.
[01:07:29] And so what life is what life is saying
[01:07:32] through these concepts
[01:07:35] is you are not
[01:07:38] the doer.
[01:07:40] That is a belief. You are not the
[01:07:42] chooser.
[01:07:43] But it's not saying choice doesn't
[01:07:44] happen.
[01:07:45] It's saying the mechanism of life
[01:07:47] unfolding is choice.
[01:07:49] It's just not
[01:07:51] you
[01:07:52] orchestrating the choice.
[01:07:57] It's just really hard to give up this
[01:07:58] idea that
[01:08:01] that I like you can't make a plan and
[01:08:05] choose. I mean
[01:08:07] Choosing will happen.
[01:08:10] You can make a plan, but I write my
[01:08:13] plans in 4H pencil.
[01:08:21] Which means when the plan is made, I
[01:08:23] know it may or may not happen.
[01:08:26] I know that it's changeable.
[01:08:29] And yet sometimes it's useful to have a
[01:08:31] plan.
[01:08:33] But you don't want to recommend one.
[01:08:36] Well, I'm not making the plan. The the
[01:08:37] plan sort of if we follow what we feel
[01:08:39] like in each moment, then
[01:08:43] a plan unfolds. The the main thing is
[01:08:46] this attitude of non-attachment to
[01:08:48] outcomes, recognizing that my idea of
[01:08:51] what should happen in the future
[01:08:54] is not going to dictate what happens.
[01:08:56] Sometimes my idea of what would be nice
[01:08:59] in the future actually matches what
[01:09:01] happens in the future.
[01:09:03] But when it doesn't,
[01:09:05] if we've got this understanding that I
[01:09:07] have an idea of what I would like, but
[01:09:08] it doesn't mean life is going to deliver
[01:09:10] that,
[01:09:11] then we move forward with the idea of
[01:09:13] what
[01:09:15] I would like.
[01:09:16] And if life delivers it, we receive it
[01:09:19] as a gift.
[01:09:21] It's pleasure in the moment.
[01:09:23] If life doesn't deliver it, it might be
[01:09:26] the pain in the moment. Pain in the
[01:09:28] moment might turn into pleasure in the
[01:09:30] moment that we didn't expect. So you
[01:09:32] might break your leg, not go up be able
[01:09:33] to go on holiday and find the perfect
[01:09:36] job or the perfect lover or
[01:09:38] whatever. So pain can lead to pleasure.
[01:09:44] And so uh letting go of the rigidity of
[01:09:47] how we want life to unfold means an
[01:09:50] attitudinal flow.
[01:09:53] A lack of resistance.
[01:09:55] Which is our happiness.
[01:10:08] So plan, do what you need to do in the
[01:10:10] moment
[01:10:11] without an attachment to the outcome.
[01:10:14] And believe me, attachment to outcome
[01:10:17] doesn't bring about outcomes. It just
[01:10:20] brings about disappointment.
[01:10:29] Actually don't believe me. Check it out
[01:10:31] for yourself.
[01:10:43] It's funny when we check it out for our
[01:10:45] self.
[01:10:46] There's the working mind and the
[01:10:48] thinking mind.
[01:10:50] The working mind
[01:10:52] is the part of the mind that
[01:10:55] sees things clearly. The thinking mind
[01:10:57] is the part that I've been describing as
[01:11:00] a sense of personal doership.
[01:11:02] The thinking mind is not there because
[01:11:03] it's malicious and it wants to cause
[01:11:05] damage. It It's there because it's been
[01:11:07] conditioned to be there.
[01:11:10] The working mind, which is actually part
[01:11:12] of the one mind, we've just broken the
[01:11:14] one mind into two categories. Once the
[01:11:16] working mind gets information
[01:11:20] and sees that another part of it
[01:11:22] is not helpful
[01:11:25] and the whole mind then gets that
[01:11:27] information.
[01:11:29] The part that is out of line with
[01:11:31] reality starts to fall away because the
[01:11:33] mind says, "Ah,
[01:11:34] I don't want to
[01:11:35] create suffering.
[01:11:37] I just didn't know I was."
[01:11:44] So the process of
[01:11:45] coming to just be is actually a process
[01:11:49] of the false ideas, the troublesome
[01:11:51] ideas which cover up our true nature
[01:11:53] falling away.
[01:11:54] And in this particular approach, what's
[01:11:56] happening is we're giving the mind
[01:11:58] information that is accurate
[01:12:00] information.
[01:12:02] Accurate in that it's
[01:12:06] opposite to the inaccurate.
[01:12:09] Why is that important? That whole
[01:12:10] opposite thing, I don't think I
[01:12:13] understand that.
[01:12:13] Because our beliefs remain in place
[01:12:15] because we think they're truth.
[01:12:19] We think something is truth often
[01:12:21] because we haven't seen its relative
[01:12:23] nature.
[01:12:24] So if someone puts
[01:12:26] what seems like or what is its opposite,
[01:12:30] you then have to ask, "Well,
[01:12:32] why do I believe that to be true
[01:12:34] and
[01:12:36] don't believe that to be true?" If we
[01:12:38] don't see its opposite, then we just
[01:12:40] think, "Well, that's the way it is."
[01:12:43] Right.
[01:13:21] Mhm.
[01:13:28] Could you
[01:13:30] elaborate a little bit about the blame
[01:13:32] and the guilt and the expectation part
[01:13:35] that
[01:13:36] uh creates this
[01:13:39] suffering or
[01:13:40] comes out of being
[01:13:43] the doer, the sense of
[01:13:46] personal doership. Mhm. Because
[01:13:49] removing that, getting rid of that
[01:13:52] must be an immense
[01:13:55] relief.
[01:13:56] Mhm.
[01:13:57] There are so much of it.
[01:13:59] Yeah.
[01:14:02] I mean, the basis
[01:14:04] on which it starts to dissolve is this
[01:14:06] recognition that
[01:14:09] it's all God's will, not my will.
[01:14:12] And as we described from a practical
[01:14:15] point of view, that explanation is that
[01:14:18] what I do in the moment is based on who
[01:14:20] I am at the moment, my genes and
[01:14:21] up-to-date conditioning.
[01:14:23] Which clearly then
[01:14:26] means
[01:14:27] I'm forced to act the way I act in a
[01:14:29] particular moment, good or bad.
[01:14:33] Guilt is the non-recognition of that.
[01:14:37] Guilt is the idea I should have been
[01:14:39] better.
[01:14:41] I could have been better.
[01:14:43] I should have ensured a better outcome.
[01:14:47] Guilt is the idea that
[01:14:50] my parents got divorced because it was
[01:14:53] my fault
[01:14:54] because I wasn't a good enough child.
[01:14:58] That I got abandoned because
[01:15:00] I'm not lovable.
[01:15:04] Um they're all beliefs about life that
[01:15:08] are often put in place at a very young
[01:15:10] age
[01:15:11] when life is seen from a perspective
[01:15:14] that
[01:15:15] is, you know, not very worldly, let's
[01:15:19] say. It's a child's perspective.
[01:15:22] And
[01:15:25] you know,
[01:15:26] that's what happens.
[01:15:27] False assumptions. And those false
[01:15:30] assumptions can be very traumatic.
[01:15:34] Can take a situation and it can be
[01:15:36] extremely be felt extremely personally.
[01:15:41] And then life
[01:15:43] is lived
[01:15:45] from that perspective sometimes for 90
[01:15:48] years with a perspective from a
[01:15:49] three-year-old's experience of what's
[01:15:52] happening.
[01:15:57] And blame is the same but in an outward
[01:16:01] direction instead of an inward
[01:16:02] direction.
[01:16:04] You know, my lover
[01:16:06] cheated and hurt me.
[01:16:08] I hate him or her.
[01:16:13] That pain is taken to be an attack on
[01:16:17] who I am and it's the
[01:16:19] pain of the heart which is the most
[01:16:22] intense attack of who we believe
[01:16:24] ourselves to be.
[01:16:27] And once again, that will turn into
[01:16:29] resentment or hatred or a lack of
[01:16:33] self-worth. It happened because I wasn't
[01:16:35] good enough.
[01:16:38] And so different events in life tend to
[01:16:41] follow
[01:16:42] the original patterning.
[01:16:45] And each event just
[01:16:47] is seen from the same perspective and
[01:16:49] compounds the belief of oneself.
[01:16:54] And so we end up carrying this load of
[01:16:57] guilt and blame.
[01:17:00] And it can fall away in an instant if we
[01:17:03] recognize in an instant
[01:17:05] that
[01:17:06] of course I'm not the doer.
[01:17:09] Of course
[01:17:10] that my
[01:17:15] way of being
[01:17:17] was imposed
[01:17:20] as part of the story. It's not personal.
[01:17:28] And
[01:17:30] in practical terms, how does this
[01:17:32] backpack of this load
[01:17:34] of guilt and shame and blame and hatred,
[01:17:38] how does that get
[01:17:39] offset?
[01:17:41] At first it gets offset when we
[01:17:43] intellectually see the mechanism
[01:17:46] of life
[01:17:47] and
[01:17:48] consciously then
[01:17:50] in daily life, there is less involvement
[01:17:54] in what is happening.
[01:17:56] When I'm When I say involvement, less
[01:17:58] attachment to outcomes and less guilt
[01:18:01] and blame about
[01:18:03] circumstances that are happening in the
[01:18:05] present moment.
[01:18:08] And that
[01:18:11] space
[01:18:12] then allows feelings that haven't had
[01:18:15] space to arise
[01:18:18] to surface.
[01:18:21] And within these explanations,
[01:18:23] we're told that the sense of personal
[01:18:25] doership actually is contained in all of
[01:18:28] these old
[01:18:30] emotions
[01:18:32] that were put in place by these events.
[01:18:34] So the sense of I am the body, I am the
[01:18:37] doer, I am incomplete, I'm good enough,
[01:18:40] I'm not good enough, all of that is
[01:18:41] contained in these emotions from the
[01:18:42] past.
[01:18:44] And as we start to
[01:18:46] get less involved in the flow of life as
[01:18:48] it happens moment to moment,
[01:18:50] the space then
[01:18:52] and
[01:18:53] the defense mechanisms
[01:18:55] that are in the system start to weaken.
[01:18:58] And suddenly we start to feel things
[01:19:00] that
[01:19:01] haven't been felt before.
[01:19:05] And there's a
[01:19:08] phase in the process where we just
[01:19:09] witness even the feelings and
[01:19:13] if we witness them, they'll dissolve.
[01:19:16] And that's great to see that they're not
[01:19:17] real cuz they dissolve, but dissolving
[01:19:21] them doesn't actually release them.
[01:19:24] Dissolving them is just a recognition
[01:19:27] that they're not truth.
[01:19:29] That they're
[01:19:30] If they were truth, they wouldn't just
[01:19:32] dissolve. They'd have to remain there.
[01:19:35] And then
[01:19:37] once witnessing
[01:19:39] starts has grounded itself in it also
[01:19:42] feels like no, but this isn't
[01:19:44] this isn't it either. It's not about
[01:19:46] just witnessing suffering
[01:19:49] where suffering
[01:19:50] arises and I say well, that's not me.
[01:19:54] And don't identify with it because
[01:19:56] that's not embodied living. That's
[01:19:58] living as consciousness.
[01:20:00] And so at at some point the process says
[01:20:03] no, this and you forget you put down all
[01:20:06] the ideas that I shouldn't feel. I
[01:20:08] shouldn't feel guilt. I shouldn't feel
[01:20:10] blame because all of that is
[01:20:12] um
[01:20:12] doership and if I feel guilt and blame
[01:20:15] then I'm failing as an enlightened
[01:20:17] person.
[01:20:19] And we just feel.
[01:20:21] Honestly, it helps to hear that this is
[01:20:24] actually part of the process. That this
[01:20:26] is how the load of guilt and blame is
[01:20:29] is shed. So, then there is a movement
[01:20:32] that says I actually want to know what
[01:20:34] this is. I don't want it just to
[01:20:35] dissolve. I've spent 6 months or 6 years
[01:20:38] each time I feel this I go into expanded
[01:20:41] awareness. I'm the witness, you know,
[01:20:43] not thinking cuz that's not awareness.
[01:20:46] That's the ego acting as the witness.
[01:20:48] But when real witnessing happens and it
[01:20:50] becomes it can then become a technique
[01:20:53] or
[01:20:54] a form of escapism or spiritual
[01:20:56] bypassing.
[01:20:58] We just that that's where we go cuz
[01:21:01] nothing affects me out there.
[01:21:03] And that then starts to lose its
[01:21:06] its appeal after a while.
[01:21:09] So, when we hear that in order for the
[01:21:11] load of guilt and blame in order for the
[01:21:13] sense of personal doership to be
[01:21:16] released so that
[01:21:18] this equanimity exists on all levels,
[01:21:20] not just out in the
[01:21:22] in the, you know, in the consciousness
[01:21:24] state.
[01:21:26] We need to actually feel these energies
[01:21:29] and let them out. They weren't let out
[01:21:33] when they were put in place. They were
[01:21:34] suppressed because they were too
[01:21:36] painful.
[01:21:38] Um and now we know that all of the guilt
[01:21:40] and blame is based on
[01:21:42] a way of seeing life that is not
[01:21:45] accurate. So, on a conscious level we
[01:21:48] now don't believe that guilt and blame
[01:21:50] makes sense.
[01:21:51] And yet we're not saying we're not going
[01:21:54] there. We're not saying oh, guilt and
[01:21:55] blame doesn't make sense. If we do that,
[01:21:57] we're not feeling the feelings.
[01:22:00] We're
[01:22:01] we're justifying.
[01:22:03] We're just not feeling the feelings. At
[01:22:05] some point we go okay, I I want to know
[01:22:06] what this is.
[01:22:09] And so
[01:22:10] we start to feel the edge of it.
[01:22:13] I I suggest you put words onto the edge
[01:22:16] of it.
[01:22:17] You get a general idea what it's about
[01:22:19] and so you say what is this? Is it
[01:22:21] abandonment? Is it loneliness? Is it
[01:22:25] fear?
[01:22:26] As soon as you say the right word,
[01:22:28] it will expand to the next level of
[01:22:32] detail.
[01:22:33] And then okay, so now it's fear. Is it
[01:22:36] fear of
[01:22:37] loss? Is it the fear of
[01:22:42] physical injury?
[01:22:44] Is it the fear of non-existing?
[01:22:48] Comes at another level.
[01:22:51] And then
[01:22:52] the feeling can becomes in more and more
[01:22:55] intense and it just wants to manifest.
[01:22:59] Fear will manifest through
[01:23:03] you know, whatever way it manifests,
[01:23:05] crying or
[01:23:07] and we just
[01:23:09] allow it to be exactly what it is
[01:23:11] without getting in its way.
[01:23:13] And it comes and it goes.
[01:23:16] It can feel, you know, the intensity of
[01:23:18] emotion can be
[01:23:20] intense, but it's not going to kill us.
[01:23:22] Emotion, feeling will never kill us.
[01:23:27] And what we might find is that while
[01:23:31] this emotion is allowed to express
[01:23:34] itself fully,
[01:23:35] then a witnessing of that expression
[01:23:38] can be there.
[01:23:40] And that witnessing of the expression is
[01:23:42] different to the witnessing that says I
[01:23:44] don't want to know what that is.
[01:23:46] It's just a witnessing that sees the
[01:23:48] thinking I hate, you know, I hate I hate
[01:23:51] him.
[01:23:52] I hate her
[01:23:54] for what she did to me, for the pain
[01:23:57] that happened in the event.
[01:24:01] And we and and all of that thinking
[01:24:04] pattern is just witnessed. It's not
[01:24:05] we're not saying it should or shouldn't
[01:24:07] be like that.
[01:24:08] It's just given its space cuz it's
[01:24:11] coming it's in the energy and
[01:24:14] we're not identifying with it. We're not
[01:24:16] believing the story anymore.
[01:24:18] And out it comes. The thing is
[01:24:20] this can just keep happening and
[01:24:22] happening and happening and we feel like
[01:24:24] we're crying tears for the whole world.
[01:24:29] And you know, it can start off with that
[01:24:32] much
[01:24:33] and it can over 6 months or whatever
[01:24:35] diminish down to that much and the last
[01:24:37] bit can feel like the first bit. And you
[01:24:40] might go oh, this is, you know, this is
[01:24:41] an never-ending barrel of
[01:24:44] I
[01:24:45] I might as well go back to just
[01:24:46] suppressing it. And you could be that
[01:24:48] much then.
[01:24:54] But what we find is as it comes out,
[01:24:57] what comes out is our attitude.
[01:25:00] Suddenly we might find ourselves walking
[01:25:02] down the street looking people in the
[01:25:03] eye. Like wow, I don't ever look people
[01:25:06] in the eye.
[01:25:08] You know, because normally it's like we,
[01:25:10] you know, we don't want to be seen
[01:25:11] because
[01:25:12] we don't value ourself.
[01:25:15] Internally, we walk around with our head
[01:25:17] down and
[01:25:19] you know, I don't want to see myself. I
[01:25:20] don't want someone else to see me. If
[01:25:22] someone else sees me, they're just going
[01:25:23] to tell me how I am.
[01:25:26] So, we, you know, and that's not we're
[01:25:28] not that's not our fault. That's how
[01:25:30] we're forced to be
[01:25:32] based on what's in the system.
[01:25:34] So, this if this starts happening
[01:25:37] without us even knowing, it, you know,
[01:25:39] we've cried for 6 months and then one
[01:25:41] day we realize I'm looking I'm looking
[01:25:42] people in the eye. Right.
[01:26:01] Um I have a feeling that all of you've
[01:26:03] been talking about about blame and guilt
[01:26:06] uh can also help explain addictions. Um
[01:26:10] maybe if like smoking or overeating,
[01:26:12] sex, those kinds of things. But just
[01:26:14] like these kind of repetitive things
[01:26:16] that we do that seem harmful to ourself
[01:26:18] or we realize it, but we often carry on
[01:26:20] doing it.
[01:26:21] Could you speak about about that maybe?
[01:26:23] Um if that makes sense.
[01:26:26] Yeah. So, all this load of guilt and
[01:26:28] blame is an uncomfortableness with
[01:26:30] oneself. It's all the sense of personal
[01:26:32] doership which is the false idea of who
[01:26:34] we are. And of course, if we have a
[01:26:36] false idea of who we are, we're not
[01:26:37] going to be comfortable with ourselves
[01:26:39] because we're only going to be
[01:26:39] comfortable with ourself when we are
[01:26:41] being what we really are.
[01:26:45] Which happens to be by its very nature
[01:26:47] comfortableness, contentment, peace.
[01:26:51] So, the false sense of self creates an
[01:26:53] uncomfortableness. And that
[01:26:54] uncomfortableness can be in the form of
[01:26:56] guilt and blame, pride, expectation,
[01:26:59] anxiety.
[01:27:01] Um and under guilt we can have lack of
[01:27:03] self-confidence, lack of worthiness, um
[01:27:07] insecurity,
[01:27:09] um just guilt, embarrassment,
[01:27:13] uh
[01:27:14] there can be under blame resentment,
[01:27:17] jealousy, hatred, just general blame for
[01:27:19] someone parking the car in front of the
[01:27:21] garage like we said.
[01:27:23] Um
[01:27:24] can be anxiety, um as a form of
[01:27:26] attachment to outcomes.
[01:27:29] And it can be expectation, um attachment
[01:27:32] to pleasure in the future.
[01:27:34] Um anxiety is a form of attachment to
[01:27:37] outcome, but it's where there is a sense
[01:27:40] of
[01:27:41] dread and despair that things are always
[01:27:44] going to work out terribly.
[01:27:47] Uh
[01:27:49] and so this sense of uncomfortableness
[01:27:52] is
[01:27:55] something we move away from.
[01:27:58] is something we move away from.
[01:27:58] That's the intuitive movement is to move
[01:28:01] away from the sense of uncomfortableness
[01:28:03] with self because it is an
[01:28:06] uncomfortableness
[01:28:07] on the level of what we believe ourself
[01:28:09] to be. There really isn't anything
[01:28:11] that's more uncomfortable than an
[01:28:13] uncomfortableness with self.
[01:28:15] And so the body has decided I'll push
[01:28:18] that as far down as I can
[01:28:22] so as not to feel it. And when I feel
[01:28:25] it, I've got strategies to
[01:28:29] distract myself from it.
[01:28:31] And effectively those strategies are
[01:28:33] pleasure
[01:28:34] and engaging in things that either numb
[01:28:38] and dist- and cover up or deliver
[01:28:41] pleasure that the mind says oh, I am
[01:28:43] good enough. That's why I'm getting this
[01:28:44] pleasure.
[01:28:46] Um so, it's a counter to the sense of
[01:28:49] not being good enough. We'll go out and
[01:28:50] prove to ourself, prove to others that
[01:28:52] we are good enough.
[01:28:55] And if we see the dynamic, which is so
[01:28:57] all of this is, remember, not a
[01:28:59] prescription of something to do. Not
[01:29:00] saying you should release. You should
[01:29:04] stop addictions. It's just a description
[01:29:07] of the mechanics.
[01:29:10] And a description can help us see it for
[01:29:13] ourself when it is present.
[01:29:16] And then change happens.
[01:29:18] Nothing to do with anything we're doing
[01:29:21] or happening
[01:29:23] based on
[01:29:24] awareness becoming aware of mechanics.
[01:29:29] Um so that's basically why we will
[01:29:32] do something repetitively. Let's say
[01:29:34] smoking creates a
[01:29:37] distraction to this feeling.
[01:29:39] And if you stop smoking you'll find
[01:29:41] you'll need to find something else
[01:29:43] to
[01:29:44] distract the feeling.
[01:29:46] When we hear that
[01:29:48] although it's counterintuitive to dive
[01:29:51] into the feeling
[01:29:53] although it's counterintuitive we hear
[01:29:55] that it's the way that the load of guilt
[01:29:58] and blame gets shed. Practically it's
[01:30:00] the way that the load of guilt and then
[01:30:02] we have a rationale
[01:30:04] as to why
[01:30:05] to move in a direction that is
[01:30:07] counterintuitive.
[01:30:09] Before we had no rationale so
[01:30:10] counterintuitive to move there so we
[01:30:12] don't. So we go where intuition
[01:30:15] not not clear intuition but just the
[01:30:18] mind's best conclusion about what's good
[01:30:21] for it.
[01:30:24] Um and you you can go after uh just
[01:30:26] Jonathan.
[01:30:28] Uh do you have some fancy technique or
[01:30:31] anti
[01:30:32] conditioning to move out of adapting to
[01:30:35] the world adapting to each other because
[01:30:37] it seems so many I've encountered they
[01:30:39] they go through states of enlightenment
[01:30:41] or get much closer to
[01:30:43] altruistic loving sense of being when
[01:30:45] they're on a retreat but then they get
[01:30:47] back to the airport and then boom it's
[01:30:48] gone. Mhm. Because
[01:30:51] this is me at school I'm supposed to be
[01:30:53] like this. This is me at a home with my
[01:30:54] family. I am supposed to be like this.
[01:30:58] So even though you're aware of you have
[01:30:59] this conditioning
[01:31:01] Mhm.
[01:31:01] it's just a matter of trusting your true
[01:31:03] self and sticking out from the cloud
[01:31:05] from the crowd or
[01:31:07] and can you do it baby steps or does it
[01:31:10] matter at all? You should everything is
[01:31:11] fine.
[01:31:12] So
[01:31:14] good question. Um
[01:31:16] two two things. One
[01:31:19] life is bringing about the change but
[01:31:22] nonetheless um life can bring about the
[01:31:24] change through the answer to your
[01:31:26] question which could be a technique
[01:31:28] let's say. And then that's just new
[01:31:30] conditioning that life is introducing.
[01:31:32] Um
[01:31:33] it just so happens that I don't have a
[01:31:35] technique to offer. Um
[01:31:37] but
[01:31:38] but another description um of
[01:31:41] why that happens what you just said. And
[01:31:45] that description of the mechanism can
[01:31:47] then in itself be part of the change.
[01:31:50] Um and that description is that we have
[01:31:53] on a very deep level the sense of
[01:31:55] personal doership. When I say deep it's
[01:31:58] ingrained in these traumas or events
[01:32:02] memories that were processed a certain
[01:32:04] way. Um and then life starts
[01:32:07] reconditioning us and intellectually we
[01:32:10] get it that
[01:32:12] um involvement blame is suffering and
[01:32:16] that equanimity and witnessing and
[01:32:18] watching everything happening is peace.
[01:32:21] And it makes sense in here. Everyone
[01:32:23] goes wow yeah this is good I feel peace
[01:32:26] it's easy I can do this. Now it's
[01:32:29] going to be smooth sailing. Then we go
[01:32:31] out on the street and everything goes
[01:32:33] out the window
[01:32:35] because someone has stolen our bike and
[01:32:39] um I've forgotten the wallet up in the
[01:32:41] apartment and the people have left and
[01:32:45] this is a disaster and
[01:32:48] what's left in the system at the lower
[01:32:50] levels gets triggered.
[01:32:52] And that
[01:32:55] is the false sense of personal doership
[01:32:57] and there's an attachment to outcome and
[01:33:00] a resistance that happens in the moment
[01:33:01] and we think you know
[01:33:03] where where's I thought I got it.
[01:33:06] And yet in practice
[01:33:09] it's all out the window. Um
[01:33:12] and what tends to happen is the
[01:33:15] understanding gets deeper and deeper.
[01:33:17] Starts off as an intellectual
[01:33:19] understanding. For some people this
[01:33:20] might be the first time that they've
[01:33:22] heard the concept and there's you know a
[01:33:24] whole framework and there's a lot of
[01:33:27] words and the brain can only
[01:33:30] absorb so much.
[01:33:32] And
[01:33:33] so you might leave and you think I only
[01:33:36] really remember four or five points.
[01:33:40] That's a good start to the intellectual
[01:33:42] understanding.
[01:33:43] Um and in principle you might um it
[01:33:46] might be clear yes involvement guilt
[01:33:48] blame suffering and non-involvement. So
[01:33:51] that's
[01:33:51] someone's got the intellectual
[01:33:53] understanding.
[01:33:56] You might listen to the recordings five
[01:33:58] or six times and then all the pieces
[01:34:00] start to fit into place.
[01:34:02] And then that means the intellectual
[01:34:04] understanding has become more complete.
[01:34:06] And then as we walk through life
[01:34:08] observing our daily experience
[01:34:12] based on
[01:34:14] you know what happens between me and the
[01:34:15] other when blame happens when guilt
[01:34:17] happens when there's um a an equanimity
[01:34:20] with what the other does even though
[01:34:21] they hurt us when there is a
[01:34:24] feeling making decisions from feeling
[01:34:27] when there's making decisions from the
[01:34:28] head. All of this is recognized and
[01:34:30] we're ticking off the intellectual
[01:34:32] understanding which is now in the
[01:34:33] system.
[01:34:35] And that means that the intellectual
[01:34:36] understanding is going deeper and deeper
[01:34:38] and as it goes deeper and deeper it's
[01:34:40] kicking out these old false ideas.
[01:34:44] And it kicks them out either just by a
[01:34:48] belief being seen as a belief and it
[01:34:50] says actually I really don't believe
[01:34:51] that anymore and that I don't believe it
[01:34:54] can go quite deep
[01:34:55] or it kicks it out by the process of
[01:34:58] these emotions coming out where we say
[01:35:00] I'm going to feel this and it comes out.
[01:35:02] And over time the understanding goes
[01:35:05] deeper and deeper
[01:35:06] and at some point it's kicked out
[01:35:08] everything.
[01:35:09] Kicked out all of the sense of personal
[01:35:11] doership. And at that point we'd find
[01:35:13] ourselves walking through life
[01:35:17] in the toughest of situations and then
[01:35:20] realizing wow
[01:35:21] I haven't been disturbed by these
[01:35:24] situations.
[01:35:26] I've encountered pain.
[01:35:28] You know someone bumped into me and
[01:35:29] broke my arm. My bike was stolen.
[01:35:33] I lost some money. The food I ordered
[01:35:35] was really bad. Plus all the pleasurable
[01:35:38] things come in life. And you look back
[01:35:40] and think wow I haven't been
[01:35:42] uncomfortable with myself or with the
[01:35:44] other for the last three weeks three
[01:35:47] months.
[01:35:49] That's it. It's happened.
[01:35:53] So
[01:35:54] so the awareness in the
[01:35:58] I've got the terms the the thinking mind
[01:36:00] or the or the working mind.
[01:36:03] The working brain
[01:36:04] can can choose to
[01:36:06] some extent to be more aware of
[01:36:09] its true essence and then make more and
[01:36:11] more aware choices until you stop making
[01:36:14] choices until then it's just intuition
[01:36:17] as part of the flow.
[01:36:20] The working mind as I
[01:36:22] would phrase it is it gets more and more
[01:36:25] accurate information
[01:36:26] which then allows it to see more and
[01:36:29] more of the landscape accurately
[01:36:32] and see more and more of the dynamics of
[01:36:35] personal doership when they happen.
[01:36:38] And so
[01:36:39] the working mind plus awareness
[01:36:42] in conjunction
[01:36:43] is personal investigation in daily life.
[01:36:47] The working mind plus awareness is
[01:36:50] con- contemplation.
[01:36:52] And
[01:36:54] as
[01:36:55] that happens
[01:36:57] there is less and less of the sense of
[01:37:00] personal doership that remains in the
[01:37:02] system.
[01:37:04] And ultimately it's that sense of
[01:37:07] personal doership which is a set of
[01:37:08] beliefs about life and self that cover
[01:37:11] up one's true self.
[01:37:13] And then life is
[01:37:15] felt spontaneously but choices will
[01:37:19] still happen.
[01:37:20] The process of choice which is in this
[01:37:23] moment I have to decide how I'm going to
[01:37:25] get to Paris
[01:37:26] which airplane I should choose. Do I
[01:37:29] take the direct one-hour flight that's
[01:37:32] 600 euros or do I
[01:37:34] take the one that takes me through two
[01:37:36] airports and is going to take five hours
[01:37:38] and is only 100 euros.
[01:37:41] That thinking
[01:37:43] will still happen.
[01:37:48] Because it's not part of the thinking
[01:37:50] mind. If it's
[01:37:52] part of well I want to go on the
[01:37:54] one-hour flight but I don't want to pay
[01:37:56] $600 600 euros.
[01:37:59] And the mind looks at this and is just
[01:38:03] un- really unsatisfied with the
[01:38:05] situation. Means the thinking mind is
[01:38:08] still there.
[01:38:10] The working mind looks at it and says
[01:38:11] this is how it is.
[01:38:13] This is the choice I have two options.
[01:38:17] One choice will get made.
[01:38:35] The red eye yeah.
[01:38:45] Uh you say that
[01:38:48] sometimes
[01:38:50] sometime you will discover that it is
[01:38:52] suddenly there.
[01:38:54] But what about
[01:38:55] the dark night of the soul?
[01:38:58] It's often said that in the process
[01:39:02] there is a dark night of the soul. Mhm.
[01:39:04] I would want you to say a little more
[01:39:06] about that.
[01:39:09] Yeah um
[01:39:11] sometimes
[01:39:13] these are metaphors as well. So, the
[01:39:15] dark night of the soul is not
[01:39:17] necessarily one night.
[01:39:20] Um
[01:39:21] but let's say these encounters with the
[01:39:24] energy that's have been suppressed in
[01:39:26] the system.
[01:39:27] Um
[01:39:29] where for a day we might feel like
[01:39:32] death, like
[01:39:35] um you know,
[01:39:36] there's no hope.
[01:39:38] This is it. This is the end.
[01:39:40] And yet the dark night of the soul is
[01:39:43] not the end. It's It's this gray has a
[01:39:45] start and a finish.
[01:39:47] And when it finishes
[01:39:49] there's something great on the other
[01:39:50] side.
[01:39:52] And so that's the metaphor is let's get
[01:39:54] what's in the way out.
[01:39:57] It just comes out at some point when
[01:39:59] it's destined. And while it's coming out
[01:40:01] it could well
[01:40:03] be felt like the dark night of or that's
[01:40:06] what that refers to.
[01:40:08] Um and some of the most
[01:40:12] uh
[01:40:13] so
[01:40:14] the story of Jesus in the
[01:40:16] desert the 40 40 days and 40 nights of
[01:40:19] temptation.
[01:40:20] Um we could look at that as
[01:40:22] um
[01:40:23] him purging
[01:40:25] what might have been left um
[01:40:28] of
[01:40:29] I don't know the story well enough, but
[01:40:31] I wouldn't be surprised that that's what
[01:40:32] it relates to. Um
[01:40:35] and
[01:40:37] the sense of non-existence
[01:40:40] the fear of existential the existential
[01:40:43] fear
[01:40:45] is one particular
[01:40:47] thread
[01:40:48] that
[01:40:49] may be more specifically what the dark
[01:40:52] night of the soul is referring to, which
[01:40:54] is the fear of non-existence and that is
[01:40:57] the fear that the sense of personal
[01:40:59] doership creates when it realizes that
[01:41:03] it's dying
[01:41:04] that it doesn't exist actually. It's not
[01:41:07] real.
[01:41:09] And
[01:41:10] that can happen if the brain
[01:41:14] if thoughts arise
[01:41:17] that say what would I be without this?
[01:41:20] What is life going to be without this?
[01:41:22] And the fear can
[01:41:24] be a fear that it's run so deep.
[01:41:28] And it's a fear of non-existence.
[01:41:31] And to me I I
[01:41:32] didn't ever experience
[01:41:34] that, but there's lots of descriptions
[01:41:37] from people that do.
[01:41:40] To me the realization that can help that
[01:41:42] is in a meditative state
[01:41:45] where everything falls away. The body is
[01:41:48] not part of the present moment. All
[01:41:51] there is a space.
[01:41:53] And if we recognize even in that space
[01:41:57] there is just a memory that a body is
[01:41:58] there. If we drop
[01:42:00] the belief in a memory in the space
[01:42:03] there is just space. No body.
[01:42:07] That can trigger existential fear.
[01:42:10] And we'll come out of the meditation and
[01:42:13] just to reconnect with what we're
[01:42:16] familiar with
[01:42:17] to re-see that what I am is still here.
[01:42:21] And that
[01:42:22] what happens in the meditation state is
[01:42:24] that the sense of existence that's
[01:42:26] always there hasn't been recognized.
[01:42:29] So, what has been recognized is that the
[01:42:31] body isn't there.
[01:42:32] And because we're so convinced that what
[01:42:34] I am is the body
[01:42:35] there is a freaking out at the fact that
[01:42:38] I might have disappeared.
[01:42:40] We're so used to what I am is the
[01:42:42] personality and all of the
[01:42:44] characteristics.
[01:42:47] And so we see that that's not present in
[01:42:49] that state. And so there can be a
[01:42:51] freaking out. Who am I if I'm not that?
[01:42:54] And yet the thing that is most core to
[01:42:56] our sense of existence
[01:42:58] which is the impersonal sense of I am
[01:43:01] that's actually what makes us feel like
[01:43:03] I am the body.
[01:43:05] Without the
[01:43:07] essence of I am
[01:43:09] we wouldn't be conscious. We wouldn't
[01:43:10] have a sense of I am. So, we wouldn't
[01:43:13] know ourselves as all of the
[01:43:16] characteristics the personalities.
[01:43:19] So, the backbone of
[01:43:21] the person
[01:43:23] is not actually the characteristics, but
[01:43:25] the I am.
[01:43:26] And in that meditation the I am is
[01:43:28] there. It hasn't gone anywhere.
[01:43:31] And when we realize oh,
[01:43:32] the body has fallen away
[01:43:35] in the experience in the space there's
[01:43:36] no body. There's no age. There's no
[01:43:38] gender. There's no
[01:43:40] um preferences.
[01:43:42] And yet I I am.
[01:43:45] Then the existential fear
[01:43:48] uh
[01:43:50] probably
[01:43:51] won't happen or
[01:43:53] you know, has a
[01:43:54] is now now the fear is
[01:43:57] the fear of non-existence doesn't make
[01:43:58] sense because we recognized in that
[01:44:00] space oh I do exist.
[01:44:04] I will always exist.
[01:44:06] Even when the body dies.
[01:44:17] That's all right. No.
[01:44:36] Um there's been a lot of talking.
[01:44:39] Um
[01:44:43] we spoke briefly yesterday not in
[01:44:45] satsang, but why is this important?
[01:44:48] Because you can go to
[01:44:49] satsang sometimes and have a great
[01:44:53] Hopefully you've had a good experience,
[01:44:54] but you can go to some satsangs where
[01:44:58] we just go into a deep meditation, big
[01:45:00] openness and it feels very free and
[01:45:03] light. And that's a great experience.
[01:45:06] It's
[01:45:07] it's
[01:45:08] we can feel our connection.
[01:45:11] And
[01:45:12] then we come out of satsang
[01:45:14] and go back into life and it sort of
[01:45:16] fades away.
[01:45:18] Hopefully it stays for a while, but
[01:45:20] inevitably we get back to work and what
[01:45:22] have you and back to home life. And it
[01:45:25] fades away.
[01:45:27] And then you think well
[01:45:28] what exactly did
[01:45:31] did I get? What have I taken away from
[01:45:34] that?
[01:45:36] Um and we have taken away from that that
[01:45:39] that connection to self that's top down
[01:45:42] and it's
[01:45:44] it's so important. We need to have
[01:45:46] reference to what we are and
[01:45:49] this provides a framework, provides
[01:45:53] concepts.
[01:45:55] So, the feeling when we're listening to
[01:45:56] it might not be because we're sometimes
[01:45:58] listening and you know, the brain is
[01:46:00] listening.
[01:46:02] And it might not feel as great
[01:46:05] experientially in the moment. But
[01:46:07] hopefully there's something that we can
[01:46:09] take away
[01:46:11] and use
[01:46:12] in daily life. Use the concepts to start
[01:46:16] investigating. It's actually fun. You
[01:46:18] know, your your life you can be at work
[01:46:21] in a high-powered job or in a basic job,
[01:46:24] whatever it is not important.
[01:46:26] Doing whatever and still the
[01:46:29] thoughts will arise. Oh, that's pain in
[01:46:31] the moment. That's pleasure in the
[01:46:32] moment. That's suffering.
[01:46:33] That's peace.
[01:46:35] Um that's a biological reaction. That's
[01:46:38] an attachment to pleasure.
[01:46:40] That's blame. That's guilt. That's
[01:46:42] pride. That's anxiety.
[01:46:44] This is me making a decision from
[01:46:45] feeling. This is
[01:46:47] me
[01:46:48] making decision from thinking. Thinking
[01:46:50] can be seen as a happening.
[01:46:53] I saw something. I heard something.
[01:46:55] Smelled tasted something that I wasn't
[01:46:57] in control of.
[01:46:58] A bird flew past. And a thought arose.
[01:47:02] That's a nice bird. And something can
[01:47:04] watch the fact that the thought arose
[01:47:06] only because a bird flew past.
[01:47:09] Not my thinking, but thinking happening.
[01:47:12] And as that witnessing of everything as
[01:47:15] a happening
[01:47:16] gets stronger and stronger the process
[01:47:18] of investigation personal investigation
[01:47:22] starts to become deeper and deeper.
[01:47:25] Because what is happening is seen from
[01:47:29] a
[01:47:29] place of
[01:47:31] more perspective.
[01:47:33] The concepts make more and more sense
[01:47:35] from that place because the concepts are
[01:47:37] actually describing life as seen from
[01:47:40] that place not really seen from a place
[01:47:42] of involvement.
[01:47:45] And as that happens, you know, the
[01:47:46] understanding goes deeper and deeper
[01:47:48] until such time
[01:47:50] as we find ourselves moving through life
[01:47:52] suffering not arising. And it's as
[01:47:54] simple as that. The angels aren't going
[01:47:57] to come down from heaven and start
[01:47:58] playing
[01:48:00] great melodies for us and fireworks
[01:48:02] won't be going off.
[01:48:04] We won't necessarily have cosmic bangs
[01:48:07] happening.
[01:48:08] The body is not going to dissolve into
[01:48:12] the ether.
[01:48:13] We won't have special powers to be in
[01:48:15] three places at once.
[01:48:17] Parking spots not going to open up for
[01:48:18] us whenever we drive past.
[01:48:22] Special powers
[01:48:24] of
[01:48:25] you know, clairvoyance or
[01:48:28] ESP. Sure.
[01:48:30] All of these things can happen. They
[01:48:32] they're things that happen in life.
[01:48:34] They're gifts that we have in life.
[01:48:37] But that's not what
[01:48:39] peace in daily living is.
[01:48:42] When they're there they're gifts that we
[01:48:43] either
[01:48:45] um take pleasure in or are painful.
[01:48:49] And that's just part of the flow of
[01:48:50] life. Remember it's just the peace
[01:48:54] in daily living that
[01:48:55] is what is available on a continuous
[01:48:58] unbroken basis. And when we get that
[01:49:00] even though the mind thinks oh all this
[01:49:02] for that, really? I'm not gaining any
[01:49:05] eternal bliss or
[01:49:08] you know, full body orgasm ecstasy.
[01:49:11] No.
[01:49:12] Just
[01:49:14] peace of mind.
[01:49:16] And the mind says, well, I'd rather
[01:49:18] stick to
[01:49:19] my tantra course that gives me
[01:49:22] you know, bliss and this is not
[01:49:25] uh
[01:49:25] a reflection of that. That's actually
[01:49:27] fun and part of the depth and pleasure
[01:49:29] in life.
[01:49:30] It says as long as we relate to it for
[01:49:32] what it is,
[01:49:33] pleasure in life and it brings about
[01:49:35] great insight also.
[01:49:37] At some point the mind says actually
[01:49:40] what I really want on a continuous
[01:49:41] unbroken basis is peace of mind and when
[01:49:43] we get that we realize that's all that
[01:49:46] we ever wanted.
[01:49:49] And it's our true nature.
[01:50:08] So, maybe in last 5 minutes what we can
[01:50:10] have is an experience of the connection
[01:50:13] and the quiet and the peace and we can
[01:50:15] leave with that as well as the concepts.
[01:53:42] So, when you're ready
[01:53:45] at your own pace you can open your eyes
[01:53:47] and maybe realize that
[01:53:49] the awareness that is there when there
[01:53:51] are much fewer objects in that space of
[01:53:53] awareness
[01:53:56] is the same awareness that
[01:53:58] this whole
[01:53:59] universe fits into
[01:54:02] is recognized by.
[01:54:07] The universe from my perspective is
[01:54:08] always about this big.
[01:54:12] Whatever fits into this
[01:54:14] awareness.
[01:54:17] That's the universe in this moment.
[01:54:36] Thank you all.
[01:54:58] Yeah, thank you Denmark.
[01:55:27] Yeah, I'm fine with thanks.
[01:55:33] I can I can refrain from it if
[01:55:36] I will give it to you later anyway. But
[01:55:39] I just want to
[01:55:41] I had the opportunity I was lucky to
[01:55:42] have the opportunity to speak with you
[01:55:44] before and uh
[01:55:46] um and what I want to say was that in
[01:55:50] the first session today I I just felt
[01:55:53] like uh
[01:55:55] before it was like I knew the body but
[01:55:59] now I you opened the body like you was
[01:56:02] like it was a surgery and you showed the
[01:56:04] fibers and the
[01:56:06] different organs and how they function
[01:56:08] and
[01:56:09] uh I really would like to read your book
[01:56:13] when it comes one day.
[01:56:16] Thank you.
[01:56:16] So, and thank you so much for that
[01:56:18] detail. It do
[01:56:21] and these things that you teach you you
[01:56:24] uh
[01:56:27] but can you recommend books
[01:56:30] um
[01:56:31] to people?
[01:56:33] Mhm. If
[01:56:34] the the ones you wrote to me is it
[01:56:36] contained in in those books?
[01:56:39] Yeah, I really think if you want to we
[01:56:41] put them up on the invite the four books
[01:56:44] I recommended two of them. One is by a
[01:56:46] dear friend of mine
[01:56:47] Gautam Sachdeva who is uh
[01:56:50] a
[01:56:51] disciple of Ramesh and his publisher and
[01:56:54] he's got a full understanding of
[01:56:57] the nature of life and self and he's a
[01:57:00] great friend of mine and he has
[01:57:01] summarized
[01:57:03] Ramesh's book in
[01:57:04] uh or Ramesh's teachings in the book
[01:57:06] called Pointers to Ramesh Balsekar.
[01:57:09] Uh there is a book called The Seeking
[01:57:13] which is Ramesh's concepts
[01:57:16] um
[01:57:17] which is transcripts of 3 days of talks
[01:57:19] and they happen to be three particularly
[01:57:21] powerful days that step through
[01:57:23] everything.
[01:57:25] And uh
[01:57:26] there's a book called A Journey Beyond
[01:57:28] Words which is part of A Course in
[01:57:30] Miracles and it's less technical than
[01:57:33] A Course in Miracles and actually very
[01:57:34] beautiful and adds to this as well.
[01:57:49] Thank you so much, Roger. It's been a
[01:57:51] great experience.
[01:57:53] I think it has really been a meeting in
[01:57:55] truth.
[01:57:56] I think it's I'm learning really to
[01:57:58] become present at satsang
[01:58:01] where you have to be honest and you have
[01:58:03] to
[01:58:04] give yourself and you provide a great
[01:58:05] space to do that. So, I'm I'm very happy
[01:58:08] about that.
[01:58:09] And then a little word about the
[01:58:10] chocolates because um
[01:58:13] we talked about uh the thinking mind and
[01:58:16] the working mind having chocolate this
[01:58:18] morning
[01:58:19] and
[01:58:20] what's actually on your desk is
[01:58:22] something that seems to be chocolate
[01:58:25] and which is very Danish.
[01:58:27] So, that's a gift.
[01:58:29] Uh actually to all of us and I think
[01:58:32] maybe it has come out in the open. It's
[01:58:34] it's already here. All right. So, I hope
[01:58:37] you will enjoy it. Oh, thank you.
[01:58:38] Thank you very much. Yeah.
[01:58:43] It's nice. Um I appreciate it was a gift
[01:58:45] for me and
[01:58:47] I um
[01:58:48] like to share it with everyone so
[01:58:53] thank you.