# Dee Fink webinar Dec 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv4q1LCVK-A

[00:00] again welcome everybody we're getting started in just a minute.
[00:04] go ahead and introduce yourself if you haven't already.
[00:08] indeed do you want to say hi to everybody while we're getting started?
[00:11] uh sure um.
[00:13] i'm d fink uh you all know my name i guess by now and some of the things i've done.
[00:19] i worked for got my graduate degree at the university chicago.
[00:23] and while there i was working on the teaching of geography and higher education.
[00:28] that's what kind of got me set up for what i did later after i came uh to the university of oklahoma for my first and only academic job for my whole career.
[00:38] but uh started the instructional development program here where i worked with faculty across the whole campus to uh uh find ways to improve their teaching.
[00:47] those who were interested and ready to do that.
[00:49] and uh and so it we had a lot of a lot of fun activities.
[00:53] some of them were one-on-one consulting.
[00:54] some we had a lot of some a good number of uh kind of bi-weekly group meetings that were that were a lot.
[01:01] of fun to work with.
[01:03] and uh and uh did that until i retired from oklahoma in 2005.
[01:10] i am bridgette aaron.
[01:11] um i have the pleasure of getting to work with d fink um both when i used to run a center for teaching and learning at the university of denver we had him come visit our campus like a lot of you probably have done and it was incredibly popular.
[01:26] one of the most popular things we did.
[01:29] people really enjoyed his version of course redesign focusing on meaningful significant learning.
[01:36] and so i have had the pleasure being able to work with him over the last couple years and offer online courses based on the integrated course design framework and the taxonomy of significant learning.
[01:46] so really excited to do that work and share some of d thanks brilliance with you all today.
[01:55] this is pitch to be a very informal conversation.
[01:59] we definitely have a little bit bigger group than we typically do in these
[02:02] conversations and i'll share more about that in a second but just some housekeeping items.
[02:07] because this is really set up as an informal webinar really more of a meeting if you know kind of the zoom technology norms.
[02:16] so all of you have the capability to unmute and talk at any time but we ask you to keep your microphone muted for now.
[02:25] i'm going to start off asking dee some questions that are just a little bit more of the common things that people are asking around significant learning in the course design process and then we'll have some questions.
[02:36] i'm going to maybe pick out those of you that are in our significant learning by design 2 course right now who have sent in questions to have your questions addressed and then we'll also open it up to questions from the group and some of you have sent in questions earlier which i'll be able to get at as well.
[02:52] you are certainly welcome to put questions in the chat we will do our best to get to those but i will fully admit that we might not get to all of those.
[02:59] um and be as attentive to that during this session.
[03:03] but i wanted to also like i said just just do the housekeeping pieces give you an idea of what's to come and also can't help but share with you that we are basing this discussion for folks who have been in our significant learning by design courses but a lot of you that were invited to this session have not um either you have in the past or maybe you're familiar with defense work in other ways.
[03:28] but what we'll be talking about are some issues related to course design and specifically integrated course design and the taxonomy of significant learning and those are the courses that we offer that are based on dfink's work we have significant learning by design one and two and the first course is really based on designing what we call the three-column table where you go through a backward design process and you really outline your learning outcomes based on the taxonomy of significant learning.
[03:56] you also then think about your assessments how you will get evidence of those learning goals happening and then you look at the different kinds
[04:04] of activities that you would use to have those things um be most likely to happen for your students.
[04:09] what kinds of things would students need to do in order to be successful with your learning outcomes.
[04:16] and then the significant learning by design 2 course takes it to the next step where you actually build out your course.
[04:23] you you take that significant learning goal and you put it into weekly um learning outcomes.
[04:29] we talk about things like grading we talk about inclusive design principles we talk about designing the syllabus all those different kind of tangible elements.
[04:39] and then i also just want to share before we jump into this that that our organization also has other courses that you may or may not know about and may or may not be interested in but they are all different and unique in their own way and really kind of uniquely successful in terms of what they can do.
[04:56] they're all based on a base a two and a half to three week online course format where you either get in and design some activities for teaching students how to learn or
[05:05] advancing equity based online teaching.
[05:08] or we also have one around designing a motivational syllabus and i know a few names out there in our group today some of you have taken a few of these courses but just wanted to share those those are all on our website if those are of interest for you as we go forth.
[05:23] so like i said i'm still kind of admitting people as they come in but i'm going to go ahead and turn that off and we can share some thoughts with d fink as we go forward but i'm going to try to highlight his video here for us today.
[05:37] and that way we can get some some questions and ideas from him and i think on your end you possibly have the idea to kind of adjust your settings where you can see everybody or you can just see d or the two of us so do whatever makes the most sense for you.
[05:53] but like i said i'll start off with some general questions and then we'll we'll move it over to questions from our participants in our group.
[06:01] um but first of all this is actually a question that has come in from some of the folks that are participating in.
[06:07] today's session but relates to a lot of things that that often are talked about um by participants in our courses so
[06:15] one of the the questions that comes in is the idea around the practical applications of significant learning so
[06:22] the taxonomy of significant learning which we're not really going to review today i certainly could drop something in the chat that will have some some additional resources for that taxonomy if you're not um familiar with it but we're this question is around the practical application so how do we help instructors see the value of things like caring and of these other things that go beyond their content knowledge so dee i'm just going to go ahead and throw that up to you okay
[06:51] uh well first of all i just want to say thank you to bridget for inviting me to visit with all of you but also thank you to all of you for joining in here it's it's always wonderful to see a group of faculty who are willing to spend time to learn about teaching and learn how to improve their teaching and that's exactly what
[07:09] you all are so thank you on behalf of somebody who cares about higher education.
[07:13] thank you for that because that's what it's going to take to make higher education although it can be and it needs to be.
[07:20] a little bit of background on this on how these things developed i was working here as a faculty developer at the university of oklahoma.
[07:30] and and realized that a lot of the people when i said let's let's uh plan your course not around topics.
[07:38] which is a very common way of doing that topic one maybe from the textbook topic one topic two topic three and you work your way through the the table of contents of the textbook.
[07:47] there there's there try to convince them there's a better way of putting a course together that will result in what i think most professors really want if they stop and think about it and that is they want students to learn something in their course that the students will see has long term and personal value to them either in their personal life or their business operations or or whatever.
[08:11] and so how to do that how to how to build a course that has that kind of impact beyond just short-term memory.
[08:18] and that's where i think these two concepts of the the taxonomy of significant learning can can give us what some of those possible learning outcomes might be that would impact a wide variety of students in a variety of variety of ways but also in the model of integrated course design.
[08:33] which gives us some ideas on how to take those those learning goals and build them in the course and identify the right learning activities and assessment activities so that by the time the course is over the students really get it and understand it and understand how to use it.
[08:51] so that would that was the uh the feeling that prompted me to to enter uh push for some of these things and uh that's what that's what got it out there.
[09:00] so i'll hold it there and maybe move from that sort of general comment to your questions about either the taxonomy or the model of integrated course design.
[09:15] thanks dee and somewhat of a perhaps related question too.
[09:19] and you might want to just share for just a second or two the idea of the big dream but that is definitely oh yeah.
[09:25] yeah that was something existing i didn't start out with that but i was just going around the country doing some of these workshops on different campuses.
[09:33] and uh in the middle of one of those i just i was i was trying to help one professor drill down to see what her major learning goals were.
[09:41] and as i was pushing her and pushing about that i came up with this well what's your big dream for your students.
[09:48] and she was a person who was in the theater department and it really stopped her for a minute.
[09:53] i mean she really had to it took a while we were all sitting there in silence waiting for her to figure this out and finally she said i want to teach students how to act.
[10:02] and that was that kind of big all-encompassing that was her the set on top of things and then but to get that to happen then that's where you bring in the taxonomy and whatever start will for them to learn how to act effectively.
[10:16] what are the various specific things
[10:18] they need to learn
[10:19] that would allow them to do that
[10:21] and so that's that was where that that
[10:23] idea the big dream it seemed like it was
[10:25] so useful
[10:26] to uh if you can identify that for your
[10:28] course uh to that then help you let that
[10:31] guide you in identifying more specific
[10:33] learning goals that you can build into
[10:35] the course in a fairly annoying way
[10:37] so yeah that was that was kind of an
[10:39] interesting moment but
[10:40] as soon as that came out i realized that
[10:42] was
[10:43] not just something that was useful for
[10:44] her that was something that was used for
[10:46] all of us we're trying to
[10:47] put our courses together in a powerful
[10:49] way for students figure out what our big
[10:51] dream is and then maybe encourage
[10:52] students to think about what their big
[10:54] dream is for the queen that is what is
[10:55] it they
[10:57] think they might learn from our course
[10:58] that would have major value for them
[11:02] and i can speak from experience and say
[11:04] that i think the big dream is one of
[11:06] those really incredibly
[11:09] um sometimes even transformational steps
[11:11] that people will go through where they
[11:13] they will often see you know i just want
[11:15] them the contents going to change the
[11:17] skills they use are going to change over time
[11:18] but i want them to be a lifelong learner
[11:20] i want them to always be using evidence-based practices
[11:22] or i always want them to to see the the complexity of this field
[11:24] but be able to move forward
[11:25] and when you have that as your guidepost if you will
[11:30] yeah you're really able to adjust and change and and design things that help get to that more so than if we're just focused on the content
[11:40] yeah
[11:43] yeah so one of the questions that often comes in around the big dream is this sense that when people are really dreaming big
[11:45] they will very often say well these these dreams i have for students are more about the program or graduating college
[11:47] you know when you say i want somebody to be a lifelong learner that's a wonderful big dream
[11:50] but sometimes it's hard to then think about am i dreaming for the course or for the entire program or how do i how do i get this focused on what i can do in my particular course
[11:58] yeah
[12:12] uh well it's good to keep the program in
[12:17] mind but I I think with a little practice and work you will get the hang of how to do it for your particular course.
[12:25] Let me give you an example of how I did that for mine.
[12:27] I was teaching I had taught a course for many years in the geography department here at the University of Oklahoma uh on regional geography and that that was a course that I I really had my main job as a faculty developer but I wanted to stay active in the classroom and that that was a course that fit me well.
[12:44] Because I had been in the Peace Corps and had been overseas in two years in one country and then had the incredible opportunity to join some other people and travel through Africa the Middle East and Asia for a whole year so we we got to we got to see regions and so I knew from personal experience what that meant and the potential value it it had.
[13:02] So part of my my challenge was to figure out how to take that concept of regional geography and say help students find a way to find make that find out what the meaning of that was for their own personal experiences and and I think what what I found myself
[13:18] working towards it says either in their personal life or their business life.
[13:23] what are the places that you will be important to you in doing things?
[13:28] and what is it you need to know about those places that will feed into your uh your personal agenda for that or your business agenda?
[13:37] and then how do you gather that information?
[13:39] and so that's that's what the the geography course became was uh what is it?
[13:44] what are the things you can know about places?
[13:47] and then how to pick out various of those and then find information about those that you might want to use in your future personal and professional life.
[13:55] uh so that's that's the way i made that transition for a particular course uh to have it feed into the dream with the well the work of those students but my big dream was.
[14:04] they will they will know how to find information that's significant for their personal and or professional lives.
[14:15] so that brought it right down to that particular course.
[14:19] great thank you and i think you know i often give people feedback too that if the dream is so big that it's hard to do it on a course that's good and that that means you're dreaming really big because sometimes yeah it's sometimes it is difficult for us to think about those bigger goals that go beyond the impact that we want to have on students lives so i always say this is a good problem and you know what is that small piece perhaps that we could impact that would affect that long term but that we could actually control for in this one course uh we probably don't want to spend the whole time on this but it might be worth doing if somebody here was really struggling to figure out what their big dream was for their course i want you let's raise it up here and let's uh we'll talk it through to see if we do it and the value that for everybody else might be you'll see the kind of questions you need to ask when you're trying to figure out what your big dream might be so if anybody wants to volunteer a course where they're struggling to find that we could play with that for a little bit well i did see i think kirsten helmer
[15:21] Just put a question in the chat and if you want to go ahead and unmute yourself and share this question.
[15:27] I think that relates to us.
[15:29] Kirsten, do you want to join in and share real quick?
[15:34] Well, I don't have a particular course in mind.
[15:37] So I also work as a faculty developer with the center for teaching and learning at UMass Amherst.
[15:43] And I mean, we we know that some courses it seems easier, you know, to to think in terms of, uh, how is this relevant for our students personally, professionally.
[15:54] But then there are certain courses, some have termed them, and I mean, I I don't uh like those terms, like more remedial courses, for example.
[16:03] So students are kind of forced to take them, right?
[16:06] So how do you really uh, yeah, bring this notion of the the dream and the relevance into those courses?
[16:17] Beyond you need to take it to be brought up to speed or even we see.
[16:21] it sometimes with the uh general education courses.
[16:25] right that students feel like okay i'm just taking this course because i i have to fulfill certain requirements.
[16:29] yeah there's a list here and i got to take five of them or whatever.
[16:33] exactly yeah uh well i think yeah those especially required courses sometimes uh students come into those courses with a little bit of a negative attitude.
[16:42] not always but sometimes that uh i'm here to only be only because i gotta take it they're making me and so i don't i'm not here because i already have any sense of the value of it.
[16:51] and when you have a course like that i think what it requires is you spend the teacher spend a little time during the first week or two maybe longer but especially then to build some links between what you're going to do in that course and students future personal and professional lives.
[17:11] you have to think about what that might be and then how what get beyond just teacher talk i mean you can talk about it but the more you can get students doing things uh field experiences field.
[17:23] trips visiting people bringing visitors in some way or another.
[17:27] helping them see what the connections might be between what you're going to be studying in this course and again their their future personal and professional lives.
[17:37] uh to help them see those these potential connections and then help them build them as they go through the course.
[17:47] i don't know how much that helps but uh is that has anybody else struggled with that but had some success that they might want to share.
[17:54] uh their course and what they did with that in terms of helping students uh see value in courses that they're required to take and maybe don't see the value of it themselves.
[18:06] just volunteer out.
[18:14] or if you didn't have one where you solved the problem you if you're still facing it uh go ahead and put it out here and we'll play with it yeah.
[18:21] either way hi um my name is sarah master.
[18:24] Lagyan and I am a faculty developer at University of Iowa.
[18:32] So what we have done and we have talked to our faculty about and it has seemed to be very useful is that we think about the ways that we want to communicate the course streams with the students.
[18:45] There are many different ways to do that and in order to also make it a more inclusive experience for the students.
[18:55] Basically we always talk about that to be less transactional to just tell the students what our dreams as the instructors are for this for the course but also have a dialogue with the students to say or just encourage them to reflect on what they think they will get out of that.
[19:16] The other thing that is a kind of complementary to this communication of the course dreams or goals for the course is that we try to also encourage faculty.
[19:25] to incorporate transparent design in their courses that all the time talks about the purpose the transformation.
[19:34] Transparent assignment design from the transparency learning and teaching project.
[19:40] That it really starts all the time with purpose and we encourage the faculty to link whatever the students are doing throughout the semester in terms of assignments, tasks, activities to the goals that they have they have talked about at the very beginning of the course.
[19:57] So they all the time are revisiting that goal to see that what it really looks like in terms of their professional development.
[20:06] Good advice, good advice.
[20:09] Yeah, in other words, highlight at the beginning and and keep reiterating it with particular assignments, not only here's what the assignment is, but here's why we're doing this.
[20:16] And then and in answering that why are we doing this, link it as much as you possibly can to possible personal goals they might have or let them start sharing some with each.
[20:26] other because a lot of times if we can
[20:28] get students dialoguing as a whole class
[20:30] one student will say something well i i
[20:32] see this link and another student will
[20:34] oh i hadn't thought of that but that
[20:37] could have that value for me too
[20:39] and so having that dialogue could be
[20:41] beneficial for the whole class
[20:46] yeah and i love that idea too of having
[20:47] the students put it in their own words
[20:49] or you know sharing this dream you have
[20:51] with your students and having them yeah
[20:53] i
[20:54] often do that in courses here's the
[20:55] course outcomes but rewrite these in
[20:57] terms of what would make sense for you
[20:59] and your career and where you are and
[21:01] take ownership
[21:03] and then share that with the rest of the
[21:04] class yeah
[21:06] yeah and then kind of moving on to other
[21:08] aspects of the design process i know the
[21:11] taxonomy of significant learning has
[21:13] these various components to it and
[21:16] gina i think you are here and i don't
[21:18] mean to call you out but you sent in a
[21:20] question earlier i know you're going
[21:21] through sld 2 and
[21:23] asked about
[21:25] is the aim to have equal proportion of
[21:27] all types of learning in each course so
[21:28] would you want to give a little more
[21:29] context on that and share that question
[21:32] sure so um i'm in the occupational
[21:35] therapy department uh at dominican
[21:37] university in california and we're
[21:39] in the process of redesigning our
[21:41] curriculum and so as we've been and we
[21:43] decided that we wanted to use the think
[21:46] taxonomy
[21:47] um as a guiding principle and so as
[21:49] we've been going through the different
[21:51] courses
[21:52] uh you know we're looking at how can we
[21:54] pull in these different aspects of
[21:56] significant learning and then we started
[21:58] creating what we called the think pie
[22:00] for each class and what percentage is it
[22:02] of this and what percentage of it so we
[22:05] were really like deconstructing it and
[22:07] and i wasn't sure i was like well i
[22:09] don't know if if it makes sense to have
[22:11] a class that's you know mostly
[22:13] foundational i think the the purpose is
[22:16] that in every learning experience we're
[22:18] trying to to hit all six of those
[22:21] but that began to feel unrealistic you
[22:24] know when they're learning more
[22:25] foundational
[22:26] knowledge and you know
[22:28] kinesiology versus towards the end of
[22:30] the curriculum when they're learning um
[22:33] you know seems to be more application
[22:35] based so i just wasn't sure how to
[22:38] how to weed that or the expectation of
[22:40] balancing all six of those throughout
[22:42] you know an activity a class and a
[22:45] curriculum
[22:47] my own sense is that it uh that most
[22:50] people when they start this process
[22:53] will feel like what you described that
[22:56] that you you need the the lower levels
[22:58] and the foundational courses and the
[22:59] higher levels not until you get until
[23:02] the upper division courses or whatever
[23:05] and and my
[23:07] my view would be to be cautious about
[23:09] that
[23:10] i think you if with a little creative
[23:12] thinking you can find application type
[23:14] activities and goals
[23:16] even in your intro courses
[23:18] and the you
[23:19] they may be lighter than some of your
[23:21] later courses but the degree to which
[23:22] you can
[23:23] make those an explicit part of those
[23:26] courses the easier it's going to be for
[23:28] students to see the value of those
[23:30] courses and engage the energy in them so
[23:32] i i
[23:34] my goal my sense is to agree that you
[23:36] can
[23:37] try to get the the full set of the
[23:39] taxonomy in all courses introductory as
[23:41] well as the advanced courses
[23:44] and uh and even in the advanced courses
[23:46] you are working on applying all the time
[23:47] but usually there's some
[23:49] new material being introduced there to
[23:51] the students so again you've got the
[23:53] you've got the introductory material as
[23:55] well as the application of it and so so
[23:57] i think if to the great you can it it
[24:00] theoretically does apply the whole the
[24:02] whole taxonomy all the way through from
[24:04] beginning to end
[24:06] emphasis may vary but
[24:08] you want some of that just so they know
[24:10] what it begins to look like they begin
[24:12] to know what it looks like the
[24:13] application part and the value part
[24:15] what connections they might want to make
[24:17] with
[24:19] thank you
[24:28] so just kind of moving we seem to be
[24:30] chronologically moving through your
[24:32] integrated course design process but
[24:34] there were other questions that came in
[24:36] and this is something that often
[24:38] emerges in the courses i've done the the
[24:41] focus
[24:42] in the three column table
[24:44] goes from learning outcomes to
[24:46] assessments and then to activities and a
[24:48] lot of times
[24:49] there's some blurred lines between
[24:51] assessments and activities and there's
[24:54] usually some questions that come up
[24:55] around what's the difference is it okay
[24:57] to duplicate do i need to have separate
[24:59] things how do you differentiate those
[25:01] two and why do we have assessment come
[25:02] first even yeah well uh
[25:07] let me take two of those questions then
[25:08] remind me if i have forgotten some of
[25:10] the others but uh
[25:12] one one thing is assessment activities
[25:15] and learning activities
[25:17] uh are they the same or different
[25:19] and and uh what i eventually realized
[25:22] after working with this i didn't have
[25:23] this realization when i first started
[25:25] was sometimes not always but sometimes
[25:28] assessment activities and learning
[25:30] activities will be identical that is the
[25:33] same
[25:34] activity that allows students to learn
[25:36] it
[25:37] also gives you and them information
[25:40] to determine how well they have learned
[25:42] i mean just inherit in the nature of the
[25:44] activity not always the case but
[25:46] sometimes
[25:47] so if you if you find that looking as
[25:50] you try to write a learning activity and
[25:51] assessment activity if they look pretty
[25:53] similar
[25:54] don't worry about it that's okay
[25:56] sometimes they either are identical or
[25:58] at least similar and so that's that's
[26:01] par for the course other times they'll
[26:02] be fairly different but uh
[26:04] but if it's the same or similar uh
[26:06] sometimes that's okay
[26:11] yes and i'd say i think you know
[26:13] especially as we move more and more
[26:14] towards active learning types of
[26:16] activities what we really are doing
[26:19] are we're getting evidence of learning
[26:21] as we're having them practice the
[26:22] learning and do the things so that i
[26:24] think that's okay to have that that
[26:26] blurred line a lot as well
[26:28] um
[26:29] one other question i wanted to get to
[26:31] before we start getting more questions
[26:32] from the group um
[26:34] because sometimes people ask about the
[26:35] idea of the integrated nature of course
[26:37] design like what makes it integrated and
[26:40] in the courses we talk about functional
[26:41] integration which is more of the
[26:44] do the alignment between the goals and
[26:46] the activities and the assignments but
[26:48] then there's also this kind of
[26:49] chronological
[26:51] integration in terms of how things build
[26:53] over time so could you speak to that a
[26:55] little bit the idea of why it's called
[26:57] integrated course design
[27:02] what i saw a lot of
[27:05] when i started working the field of
[27:07] faculty development here
[27:08] that is when people were just on their
[27:11] own without input from
[27:13] some specialists like that
[27:14] is they put together courses where
[27:18] oftentimes there there weren't even
[27:20] there weren't any learning goals they
[27:21] just worked through the content and
[27:23] sometimes that content was of their own
[27:25] makings or often times it was uh kind of
[27:28] followed the table of contents in a
[27:30] major textbook for the course
[27:32] uh and so they would introduce some
[27:34] content and then they would uh long well
[27:36] let's say i better i better assess this
[27:38] somehow i got to give a grade so they
[27:39] put two midterms and a final in there
[27:41] maybe some weekly quizzes along the way
[27:45] so they'd have some basis for giving a
[27:46] grade but to me what that usually
[27:50] resulted in was just was that was
[27:53] was an uncoordinated unintegrated just a
[27:56] a set of learning activities and a
[27:58] disconnected set of assessment
[27:59] activities
[28:00] in a non-existent set of learning goals
[28:03] uh
[28:04] and and so for the students it resulted
[28:06] in a learning experience that was
[28:08] disconnected not integrated uh certainly
[28:11] with each other let alone with any
[28:13] purposes they might have
[28:15] or why do i need to learn this what's
[28:17] the value of it for me there's no
[28:18] attention given to that
[28:20] maybe might become a little bit apparent
[28:22] for some of the students but i think for
[28:23] a lot of them it never did it just of
[28:24] course i had to take here was what the
[28:26] teacher required i mean here's what i
[28:27] had to do to get a grade or a good grade
[28:30] and to me that's that's wasting a
[28:33] major
[28:34] learning opportunity that that we want
[28:36] students to have
[28:37] and so if we want to avoid that kind of
[28:40] learn it and forget it kind of response
[28:43] by the students
[28:44] uh then we have to start thinking about
[28:46] well what what kind of goals can we put
[28:48] in and how can we build the right kind
[28:50] of learning activities and assessment
[28:51] activities for it and once we do that
[28:54] and make that visible to students and
[28:56] make the the the connections between
[28:59] those your purposes and their purposes
[29:02] and how that might connect with their
[29:03] life in the near or distant future
[29:06] the more value they're going to see in
[29:08] it and the more energy they're going to
[29:09] be able to put into it we wanted to put
[29:11] into it so i think
[29:13] learning how to get those connected all
[29:15] of but you have to start with the
[29:16] learning goals because that should drive
[29:18] the selection of the learning activities
[29:20] and assessment activities and again
[29:22] sometimes those assessment and learning
[29:24] activities will be either similar or
[29:26] identical and that's okay
[29:28] uh
[29:30] i don't know how is there additional
[29:32] parts of that question that i can
[29:34] address or is that that address it fully
[29:36] enough
[29:37] i no i think that is good i still you
[29:40] know vividly remember again when you
[29:41] visited our campus and you talked about
[29:44] how
[29:45] also just kind of the the nature of
[29:46] building on
[29:48] material throughout the course that you
[29:49] can't just take week three and week 12
[29:52] and swap those that
[29:54] they should be doing something very
[29:55] fundamentally different if you're doing
[29:57] if you can swap them your course isn't
[29:59] set up in a way that builds it
[30:02] becomes more exciting as you go through
[30:04] it
[30:04] so that's that's maybe the asset test
[30:07] can you swap whop weeks without any
[30:09] effect and if so you want to rethink
[30:10] your course
[30:12] and i think that was a little bit of a
[30:14] mind-blowing message for a lot of folks
[30:16] in terms of oh that is you know it's not
[30:18] just the content it's these
[30:20] in some random sequence
[30:24] well and we did and i want to again kind
[30:26] of open it up more to questions that you
[30:27] have and i have a list here but we'll
[30:28] get to what is most useful for the group
[30:30] here um but curtis you just sent in a
[30:33] question about convincing colleagues to
[30:35] switch from things to blooms and again
[30:37] if you want to add any more context to
[30:39] that please
[30:40] go ahead and jump in
[30:44] um i i it was just sort of an off the
[30:46] cuff question but uh
[30:48] so uh dee i uh i think i uh i went to a
[30:51] workshop of yours i think it was at the
[30:53] university of minnesota but we might
[30:54] have flown out to once so um so i was
[30:57] excited to see this webinar and just
[30:59] kind of get inspired again by your
[31:01] taxonomy so the the i work um
[31:05] at a place that does all online learning
[31:07] and we use bloom's taxonomy a lot so i
[31:09] was just kind of thinking as i was
[31:11] listening to this how do i get this
[31:13] group to adopt
[31:15] you know what are the big selling points
[31:17] um for a change for a big change in
[31:18] practice but i was thinking gosh i wish
[31:20] we
[31:21] we had like the metacognitive stuff
[31:23] built into our lessons and the stuff
[31:25] about caring and human values
[31:27] so i'll hang up and listen
[31:30] yeah uh
[31:34] yeah i think bloom is you know i i
[31:36] i think you probably know this i may
[31:38] have mentioned some of my workshops here
[31:40] but you know my graduate work was at the
[31:42] university of chicago and i had of
[31:43] course i had a course from bloom not
[31:45] about the taxonomy but one about courses
[31:47] i think it was
[31:48] uh but i was very very familiar with him
[31:51] and it really
[31:52] is a good i thought start having that
[31:55] cognitive framework and of course it's
[31:57] had worldwide
[31:59] adoption and use so it's clearly
[32:01] has a lot of people see the value in it
[32:05] but having looked at it and
[32:06] then looking at well what is it i really
[32:09] want students to learn clearly a lot of
[32:11] what i want to learn was cognitive it
[32:12] fitted the bloom taxonomy easily
[32:15] but there were other things as well that
[32:17] i thought were important that just
[32:18] didn't fit into that and so i started
[32:21] playing with that and say well what are
[32:23] those other things let's try to list
[32:24] them out and then eventually
[32:26] realized i could begin to sort those
[32:28] into you know a handful of categories
[32:31] and then and then eventually came out
[32:33] with my own taxonomy which which
[32:35] incorporates bloom but then goes beyond
[32:37] it i think in some important ways at
[32:39] least ways that i found important uh in
[32:42] the human dimension and caring and
[32:43] things like that interacting with other
[32:45] people and
[32:46] learning to care that that just doesn't
[32:48] go into the bloom taxonomy and to me
[32:50] they're really important
[32:52] uh and i think they are for most people
[32:54] when they stop and ask themselves
[32:55] seriously
[32:57] whether they might be important for them
[32:59] so that's that's what prompted me to
[33:01] sort of move into this other you know
[33:03] what i saw as a broader taxonomy
[33:05] and uh and hopefully other people would
[33:07] see some value in it too
[33:10] is there does that address your comments
[33:12] or do you want to you want to follow up
[33:13] with some comments about how what that
[33:15] did for you
[33:16] no thanks uh that and the the link from
[33:19] bridgette are very helpful so thanks
[33:22] god glad that worked out
[33:25] yes i was trying to pop some resources
[33:28] in the chat as we go through but i think
[33:29] a related question that came in
[33:32] um through the registrations for this
[33:34] session was also about administrators
[33:38] and
[33:38] helping see administration to see the
[33:41] value not only of spending time on
[33:43] course design but of this also kind of
[33:45] more holistic view
[33:47] of learning so i know you've worked with
[33:50] administrators too if you have any tips
[33:51] or advice on that realm
[33:54] yeah that that's an important one
[33:55] because the uh if we can
[33:58] help the administrators become allies in
[34:00] our effort to
[34:01] uh work with faculty and convince
[34:03] faculty
[34:04] that they want their courses to be more
[34:06] than just content centered content
[34:08] focused uh that will make a
[34:12] major difference in our ability to to
[34:14] get faculty on board with this uh so how
[34:16] to help administrators
[34:18] i i think the key probably is to
[34:22] look at uh
[34:23] linking courses to program because uh
[34:26] the the administrators
[34:28] see programs i mean they're aware of
[34:30] courses that that support those programs
[34:32] but they're if we can help them see to
[34:35] to get these program goals and your
[34:36] departmental goals and the goals for
[34:39] your majors in your course if you really
[34:41] want those to if you should have goals i
[34:44] mean explicitly give some thought to by
[34:47] the end of this program what we want our
[34:48] majors to know and be able to do
[34:50] uh and as you start to answer that you
[34:53] will be developing learning desired
[34:55] learning outcomes in my current language
[34:57] and
[34:59] and then if and then what language can
[35:02] you use to formulate those in a good way
[35:05] that's both
[35:07] convincing to students convincing the
[35:08] faculty but then also maybe sheds a
[35:11] little light on what you need to do in
[35:12] individual courses or with a set of
[35:14] courses to get those to happen
[35:16] to each student by the end of the
[35:18] program
[35:19] uh what you're basically doing is kind
[35:21] of a curriculum planning via
[35:23] courses via
[35:25] desired learning outcomes
[35:27] and so to me those kind of all fit
[35:29] together
[35:30] and but but those are things that
[35:32] administrators can
[35:35] see the value of pretty quickly i think
[35:39] and i think sarah you had a question
[35:42] yes sure thank you bridgette um i um
[35:46] actually have two questions but the
[35:48] first one is
[35:49] that um
[35:51] so we in our course design institutes
[35:53] and everything that is related to course
[35:55] design discourse
[35:57] we definitely
[35:58] rely on and introduce backward course
[36:01] design and one of the questions
[36:04] because we really see that as
[36:06] a very learner-centered and
[36:08] learning-centered process and framework
[36:10] for the students but one of the
[36:12] questions or one of the conversations
[36:14] that we've had and we've also got
[36:17] is that to what extent because we know
[36:20] that it's very learner-centered but
[36:22] because it starts with the instructor i
[36:24] mean the instructor thinks about the
[36:26] goals and then designs the objectives or
[36:29] outcomes and then things about the other
[36:31] parts of the course
[36:33] how what is the what is the boundary
[36:35] between its being learner-centered and
[36:37] behavioral perspective that was one of
[36:40] the questions that i needed more time to
[36:43] think about and respect how it is not
[36:46] something that is
[36:47] very very much inspired by a
[36:49] behavioristic perspective that we are
[36:52] we are thinking about how students
[36:53] should do or what they need to do and
[36:56] then how is students learners situated
[36:59] in this framework i don't know if i
[37:01] asked that in a clear work the way but
[37:04] for me that was something that i'm very
[37:06] much appreciating this time to also
[37:09] mention and also see what you think
[37:10] about it
[37:12] well let me let me start with a little
[37:14] bit and then you tell me if if
[37:16] we need to talk about this more i sort
[37:18] of have to understand it but let me see
[37:20] if i if i do properly or not
[37:22] what i'm hearing is is
[37:25] if you buy if a teacher buys into the
[37:27] idea that a course ought to be learning
[37:29] centered
[37:30] fair enough but then he also has to deal
[37:32] with
[37:33] student reaction student behavior
[37:35] student
[37:36] activities and and link those to those
[37:39] desired learning outcomes
[37:42] and then work about how do i get the
[37:44] right behavior and
[37:45] students to engage in learning about
[37:47] this kind of learning as opposed to
[37:48] something else or nothing at all
[37:50] is that sort of where your question is
[37:52] going
[37:53] or clarify
[37:55] yes when one of the questions and then
[37:58] um you know we had this in our own uh
[38:00] learning community that is is backward
[38:02] course design more
[38:04] is it also something like that is you
[38:07] know from the different approaches to
[38:09] learning we have cognitive we have
[38:11] constructive and also behavioristic we
[38:14] were thinking about
[38:16] i've advocated that as a co-constructive
[38:18] perspective but then i was thinking like
[38:20] also
[38:22] it is a question that is it also
[38:24] behaviorals because we are trying to
[38:26] guide the students behavior towards some
[38:29] preferred learning outcomes i wanted to
[38:31] see what your insight is in in this
[38:33] regard
[38:35] uh well uh i mean
[38:38] is your question about is is uh
[38:42] backward design does it work or is it
[38:45] coordinating these your cognitive versus
[38:49] constructive versus behavioral is it is
[38:51] coordinating those is your question
[38:55] yes yes thank you
[38:56] okay
[38:57] well i i think that uh
[39:00] what that reveals your question well the
[39:03] the short answer is yes you you can and
[39:05] should to degree that you can
[39:07] incorporate more than just cognitive
[39:10] learning outcomes behavioral learning
[39:12] outcomes are
[39:13] constructive or whatever
[39:16] now you may need different frameworks
[39:17] for doing that
[39:18] but having multiple kinds of learning
[39:21] desired learning outcomes is okay
[39:23] what what you if when you do that you
[39:26] probably though need to uh keep in mind
[39:29] that that you don't want
[39:31] too many
[39:32] major
[39:33] desired learning outcomes yet that is to
[39:35] me 10 15 20 is too many
[39:38] uh
[39:38] i think you know five to seven is
[39:41] probably a max of an optimum number of
[39:45] desired learning outcome which may have
[39:47] sort of sub points under them but a sort
[39:49] of macro things that you want to keep
[39:50] your eye on
[39:52] and make progress towards a handful you
[39:55] know a good handful five six seven
[39:57] whatever but not 10 12 15.
[40:01] that becomes too many to to really to
[40:03] really effectively uh support
[40:06] and build in the activities necessary to
[40:08] make significant progress on
[40:10] and to monitor them for students
[40:13] so that'd be my general advice on that
[40:15] you can have multiple kinds but but keep
[40:17] a lid on the number of them
[40:20] and
[40:20] i was going to jump into if i could just
[40:22] as i teach a course about adult learning
[40:25] theory and so i just my head was just in
[40:27] this space where we have students do a
[40:29] project where they kind of separate out
[40:31] behavioral versus cognitive versus
[40:33] constructivist type learning theories
[40:34] and how they apply and
[40:36] i mean to me that at the end of the day
[40:38] we're almost using bits and pieces of
[40:41] each of them when we're really getting
[40:42] students involved in this more
[40:43] well-rounded education and so i don't
[40:46] know that that's an answer just to say
[40:48] that i think at some level
[40:50] when you use a framework like this that
[40:52] isn't just a behavioral perspective or a
[40:55] constructivist or a cognitive
[40:56] perspective it actually allows you it
[40:58] gets messier but it kind of allows you
[41:00] to use some of the benefits of all these
[41:02] different philosophies of teaching and
[41:04] approaches to teaching in a way that
[41:07] that to me i think is more freeing for
[41:09] people and we can kind of use the best
[41:11] of everything as opposed to
[41:13] just focusing on learning is a
[41:15] behavioral change or learning is only
[41:16] something that you know we're not
[41:18] concerned with their thoughts or their
[41:19] emotions
[41:20] and so it does feel
[41:22] messier but yet something that we can
[41:24] approach from lots of perspectives and i
[41:27] think at the end of the day we get a
[41:29] better educational outcome because we're
[41:32] looking at the much bigger picture
[41:35] which kind of leads to other questions i
[41:36] think that dee that come in a lot around
[41:39] things like
[41:40] like when we have values and caring and
[41:43] learning to learn as our goals
[41:45] how do we measurably assess those things
[41:48] how do we create these learning outcomes
[41:50] and you know look for evidence so do you
[41:52] want to speak to that a little bit well
[41:54] yeah and that that that is a question
[41:56] that came up very early when i put this
[41:59] taxonomy out there says the first three
[42:01] yeah we're familiar with cognitive stuff
[42:02] blue's been having us work on that for
[42:04] several decades but this uh
[42:06] this interaction and caring and learning
[42:08] how to learn um how do we assess those
[42:10] things and and
[42:12] i have some general thoughts i mean i've
[42:14] thought about that but i think uh people
[42:16] are right as soon as you introduce those
[42:18] one of the questions that has to come up
[42:19] is uh what both how do we get it to
[42:22] happen but then equally important is how
[42:24] do we know whether it's happened that's
[42:25] you that's the assessment piece i think
[42:27] there are answers to that i think there
[42:30] we have to be creative and and just give
[42:32] some thought and explore it
[42:35] let me just uh just
[42:38] brainstorm a few of the kinds of things
[42:40] that i've come up with in my own
[42:41] thinking about that
[42:43] having students interact with others
[42:45] have
[42:46] how would we know if students have made
[42:48] progress in that in interacting in a
[42:50] better way
[42:51] and i and i think
[42:52] i think one way to do that would be to
[42:54] have a questionnaire for the whole class
[42:57] to say how do they feel about some of
[42:58] their class especially how that how do
[43:00] they feel about the interaction
[43:02] capabilities of their fellow students
[43:04] have they gotten better over the time or
[43:06] how good are they at the end by the end
[43:07] of it however you want to put it
[43:10] but
[43:12] when you start introducing other
[43:14] students in the class
[43:15] especially if you get classes beyond you
[43:17] know 10 12 15
[43:20] you probably can't have students
[43:22] react to all the other students
[43:25] that is one reason for for me to break
[43:28] the class up into small groups and have
[43:30] the course operate via small groups
[43:33] throughout the course i mean to me
[43:34] that's that has a lot of good good
[43:37] reasons to do that but one of them and
[43:39] it allows you to do this student
[43:41] assessment they don't evaluate everybody
[43:43] they evaluate the people in their small
[43:44] group so you've got got them evaluating
[43:46] you know five six seven people whatever
[43:48] and that's that's a feasible amount of
[43:50] feedback to give on people then so
[43:52] everybody in the group evaluates
[43:54] themselves they turn that into you and
[43:55] then you summarize it somehow and
[43:57] somehow get it back to the students if
[43:59] you can
[44:01] but both about what they learn and how
[44:03] well they contribute to the work of the
[44:04] group and those sorts of things
[44:07] so to me that that's that's the
[44:09] that's the direction which i'd move for
[44:11] evaluating getting course evaluated and
[44:14] the students evaluated and
[44:16] the small groups
[44:19] great and as we move into kind of the
[44:21] last 10 minutes or so of our time
[44:23] together there were some more specific
[44:25] questions that came in and um hillary i
[44:27] think you were out there greenberger you
[44:29] had a question sd you were just talking
[44:31] about groups um that yours was more
[44:33] around kind of independent mastery of
[44:34] material but also when students are
[44:36] working on groups do you want to
[44:38] share anything with dee and some context
[44:40] for your question as well
[44:42] sure thanks bridget hillary greenberger
[44:45] from ithaca college physical therapy
[44:47] department
[44:48] i teach in fairly large
[44:51] uh large cohorts um from 75 to 100
[44:55] students and
[44:56] i struggle with
[44:58] so for grading purposes
[45:01] i have them in groups when they do
[45:03] projects but my concern is whether or
[45:05] not
[45:06] they are reaching independent map
[45:09] independent mastery of the
[45:12] material if they're working in groups
[45:16] yeah that is always a worry i mean
[45:19] um
[45:21] and it's it's a worry whether you're out
[45:23] of the whole class or using small groups
[45:25] or not
[45:26] how do you know when
[45:28] number 78 and 98 are
[45:30] learning well as numbers one and two
[45:31] that you might have a little more
[45:33] contact with
[45:34] and i mean
[45:36] if they're for the moment the question
[45:38] is are they learning the content i think
[45:40] the the only answer that is you've got
[45:41] to give some content assessment
[45:44] uh
[45:44] individually i mean that everybody takes
[45:46] individually uh you can have them do it
[45:49] individually
[45:50] keep the paper and then have them do it
[45:52] collectively in which there's a lot of
[45:54] learning that goes on as i hear what you
[45:56] thought you learned oh i did that too
[45:58] but i didn't think about it but you've
[46:00] got a record of what they did learn
[46:02] independently at least for the questions
[46:04] you give them or what they thought they
[46:06] did
[46:07] either way and so i think you just have
[46:09] to give
[46:11] individual questionnaires
[46:13] that you make up or they add to or
[46:15] however you want to set it up but if you
[46:17] want to know how well they each
[46:18] individual
[46:20] master the material some you've got to
[46:22] simplify that down because
[46:25] but but you can do that
[46:27] you just have to give them out this kind
[46:29] of a conventional
[46:30] questionnaires about our chess about it
[46:33] as well as some group things
[46:38] and again others feel free to share
[46:40] thoughts so hillary were you gonna join
[46:42] you have some follow-up questions of
[46:43] that hillary no um unfortunately um i
[46:47] you were frozen for most of your
[46:49] response oh i'm sorry
[46:53] uh do you know bridget whether you're
[46:56] recording that do you know whether the
[46:57] that will record the freeze or the
[46:59] actual
[47:01] i was actually able to hear you so i
[47:02] don't know
[47:03] also that maybe that's something on
[47:04] hillary's screen or yeah maybe it's at
[47:06] my end maybe you can get a copy of the
[47:08] recording from bridgette later
[47:11] yep i will do that thank you
[47:13] and that's what i was going to suggest
[47:14] too that if others want to share ideas
[47:16] this is one of those issues that i think
[47:18] is
[47:18] is really a big thing that we all kind
[47:20] of grapple with and there's lots of
[47:22] different approaches and philosophies
[47:24] and there's some you know kind of peer
[47:26] grading and group grading and grading on
[47:28] mastery and specs grading and there's
[47:30] like so many different kinds of things
[47:32] that can be done it's hard to you know i
[47:33] know for d to answer that in
[47:36] 30 seconds but so just to acknowledge
[47:38] kind of the complexity of that question
[47:40] i guess
[47:41] um but i think if i could paraphrase
[47:44] what you said in that clip version it
[47:45] was sort of needing some
[47:47] some level of independent evidence as
[47:50] well as that you do
[47:53] um and it kind of goes into another i'm
[47:55] sort of grouping together some questions
[47:57] that came in earlier
[47:59] that we're looking at especially the
[48:02] the taxonomy and the integrated course
[48:04] design process and do these do those
[48:06] things change when we teach
[48:08] asynchronously or when we teach online
[48:10] or when we teach in different formats or
[48:12] if we teach a condensed course like an
[48:14] eight-week course so
[48:16] um
[48:17] i mean i certainly have thoughts on that
[48:18] but d if you want to just address like
[48:20] how it works in different formats yeah
[48:22] no i i think both of those the taxonomy
[48:25] and the course design design uh
[48:28] are universal in their general
[48:30] principles that as i think
[48:32] uh you know figuring out what you want
[48:33] students to learn and how they're going
[48:34] to learn it and how are you going to
[48:36] know whether they learned it how well
[48:37] they learned it those are true whether
[48:39] you're dealing with a six person seminar
[48:40] or a
[48:42] 200 student class of some sort how you
[48:45] get at that you can you can do some
[48:46] things with a six-person seminar that
[48:48] you probably can't do with a 200 student
[48:51] class
[48:52] but the the challenge is the same that
[48:54] is you want to know
[48:56] to what degree
[48:57] they learned x y or z and why or why not
[49:00] and so how you get at that with how much
[49:02] of a questionnaire how much of it sort
[49:04] of a
[49:05] whole group discussion i think something
[49:07] like that where you can probe into their
[49:09] answers a little more uh in a way you're
[49:11] just not feasible with a 100 200
[49:13] students uh but the the the needs and
[49:17] the general direction
[49:18] i just have to ask them some questions
[49:20] uh
[49:21] and to get the answers as focused as you
[49:24] can
[49:27] yeah and i think i would echo that too
[49:28] just that i know we all got so sick of
[49:30] the word pivot over the last couple of
[49:32] years but i think that was the idea of
[49:34] having this really
[49:36] strong sense of your goals for the
[49:38] course that go beyond the content that
[49:40] if we have that that is sort of our
[49:42] anchoring point and then we can shift to
[49:44] a smaller course a different format
[49:46] online to synchronous
[49:48] um because when we i know again i taught
[49:50] at a university that has 10 week courses
[49:52] so already that seems condensed to
[49:55] what a lot of you teach but then
[49:56] sometimes we had courses that were four
[49:58] weeks or
[49:59] five weeks so that really changes the
[50:02] nature of the content in terms of how
[50:03] much you can cover but it really doesn't
[50:05] change the type of learning you want
[50:07] students to be doing so
[50:09] you know for an english class maybe
[50:10] you're not going to read 17 novels maybe
[50:12] you only have time to read five but
[50:14] you're still
[50:15] if the goals are really to explore these
[50:17] perspectives and to develop you know
[50:19] understandings of genres like you still
[50:21] can do that with five
[50:23] texts as opposed to seventeen so
[50:26] in fact
[50:27] on that very point one of the things i
[50:28] think uh i would often often wish more
[50:31] of my literature churches teachers had
[50:33] done
[50:34] was not only teach me about certain
[50:35] novels
[50:37] but really teach me this is how you
[50:40] approach and study a novel no matter
[50:42] what it is if i could do that with three
[50:44] of them in the course i could do it with
[50:47] any of them that i read thereafter in my
[50:48] life and and that would solve one and
[50:50] and how to pick out which novels i want
[50:53] to read
[50:55] one of my laments in life is i go into a
[50:57] bookstore and they got 100 million books
[50:59] in there where do i start
[51:01] i don't have a personal plan i have
[51:04] developed one since then but i had to do
[51:05] it on my own but it would be helpful to
[51:07] have students learn how to develop a
[51:08] plan for their own reading how much of
[51:11] it is about personal life how much
[51:12] professional life how much of it is
[51:14] kind of serendipitous some of it is
[51:16] pre-planned or whatever
[51:18] but learn how to develop
[51:20] a plan for what you want to read in the
[51:22] in what order and what's high priority
[51:24] and what's down the line a little bit uh
[51:26] i think that would be a lot of help to
[51:28] students i know it would be to me it
[51:29] would have been to me and i developed it
[51:31] on my own eventually but if you can help
[51:33] students learn how to do that and they
[51:35] can dialogue with each other about their
[51:37] plans and they can learn from each other
[51:39] i think sending students out with
[51:42] both a plan but also knowing how to
[51:44] periodically update their plan for
[51:46] reading what they want to read
[51:48] and what they want to get out of it how
[51:49] much of it they want to read
[51:51] very carefully and how much they want to
[51:52] read sort of uh for the big picture
[51:55] uh
[51:56] would be
[51:57] a lot of value
[52:01] yes and i can't help but mention that's
[52:02] a big focus of our teach students how to
[52:04] learn course which is really about you
[52:06] know we take these things for granted
[52:07] that they know how to read an academic
[52:09] article versus a textbook versus a novel
[52:11] those are different
[52:12] strategies
[52:14] and they don't always walk in our doors
[52:16] knowing how to do that in the way that
[52:17] you expect
[52:19] and i know we just have a couple more
[52:21] minutes i want to be sensitive of time
[52:22] so if anybody has any last minute
[52:24] questions please throw those
[52:27] our way but i also just wanted to
[52:29] perhaps end with another kind of
[52:31] grouping of questions which were more
[52:32] around
[52:34] you know how this framework fits with
[52:36] the way things are heading nowadays
[52:39] rightly so where we're really focused on
[52:41] equity-based practices inclusive design
[52:44] we i know sorry you kind of touched on
[52:45] that a little bit in your question as
[52:47] well and i've i've personally always
[52:48] found that this approach really has
[52:50] always been much more embracing of that
[52:53] and getting students even involved in
[52:55] the design process and
[52:57] focusing it around students more
[52:59] holistically but
[53:00] d if you want to talk a little bit about
[53:02] how
[53:03] any of that
[53:05] well you did a pretty good job of
[53:06] summarizing i'm not sure i have a whole
[53:08] lot to add to that
[53:10] but i think
[53:13] the two goals you mentioned there one is
[53:15] making sure we have some clear
[53:18] learning goals desired learning outcomes
[53:20] for the course whether they're mine or
[53:22] jointly developed with the students
[53:25] having a set of goals is really
[53:27] important but then learning helping
[53:29] students
[53:31] learning then how do we address those is
[53:33] equally important how do we set up an
[53:34] agenda
[53:35] we'll do it for this course but you want
[53:37] to be able to set up your own learning
[53:38] agenda for additional reading after the
[53:40] course and making sure that that's part
[53:42] of the course helping them learn how to
[53:44] do that i think is important as well
[53:47] just what's the content of these ideas
[53:51] and i guess the other thing i actually
[53:53] meant to add this into what you were
[53:54] talking about before but just in terms
[53:56] of being able to apply this to such
[53:57] different situations whether it's online
[54:00] or condensed course or different you
[54:02] know students with different backgrounds
[54:04] um you know the idea of situational
[54:07] factors is another big component of your
[54:09] process that we don't often that's one
[54:11] thing i often hear from faculty as well
[54:13] i've never taken that you know i kind of
[54:14] assume that i know my class is different
[54:16] and i have these factors but really
[54:18] listing them out
[54:20] helps in being very intentional in the
[54:22] design and being able to say this is a
[54:24] course that could be
[54:25] hybrid or this is a course where
[54:27] students are coming in without you know
[54:29] they they don't think they can do math
[54:31] or they have very little background in
[54:33] this fundamental prerequisite which i
[54:35] you know the course was based on that
[54:37] they already knew how to do so those are
[54:39] these situational factors that once we
[54:40] really put those in
[54:42] in a form where we can see them we can
[54:45] actually begin to address them more
[54:46] intentionally well yeah i think you you
[54:48] put your finger right on it most ebola
[54:50] stuffs are generally pretty well aware
[54:52] whether we got a two-week course or a
[54:54] 10-week course or 20 students or 120
[54:57] but then taking time to stop and think
[54:59] uh how am i going to respond to each of
[55:02] those
[55:03] so i can so the course can be infected
[55:05] even effective even though it's 120
[55:07] students or or whatever they know
[55:09] nothing about this subject matter to
[55:11] begin with whatever the challenge major
[55:12] challenges are
[55:14] uh listing those things out and say how
[55:16] am i going to respond to that am i going
[55:17] to do something in the course may not
[55:19] have to do address all of them but you
[55:21] should be able to address a handful of
[55:22] them
[55:24] that's going to go a long ways towards
[55:26] making the course
[55:27] have the kind of impact you want for the
[55:29] students
[55:32] well thank you dee thank you everyone i
[55:35] know we were right at the top of the
[55:36] hour and we are busily finishing up our
[55:40] our semester and our quarter so thanks
[55:42] everyone best of luck to you with your
[55:43] course design and
[55:45] your ongoing hopefully you have a bit of
[55:48] a break over the next few weeks um but
[55:50] again feel free to reach out with
[55:52] questions and let us know and thanks for
[55:54] joining us for this fairly informal
[55:56] chat with d fink
[55:57] it was a pleasure on my and thank
[55:59] bridget for setting it up and thank the
[56:00] rest of you for joining in