# Christian Vs Muslim: Was Jesus Muslim?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dU575e4-ZQ

[00:00] your definition of Islam or Muslim, it
[00:02] means nothing because anybody can be a
[00:04] Muslim by what you just defined.
[00:06] >> Let's say there's a language out there
[00:07] that you pronounce the name Jesus as
[00:09] gay. In that hypothetical situation, are
[00:11] you going to say Jesus is gay?
[00:12] >> So, you can't say Jesus is a Muslim when
[00:14] he has the opposite theology. When he
[00:16] has the opposite idea of who God is,
[00:18] what he desires from us, who we are to
[00:20] God versus Islam, you can't say he's a
[00:23] Muslim.
[00:24] >> He just made a huge name of
[00:25] >> Let me change the blunder before he
[00:27] changes the subject.
[00:28] >> No, you don't. You know what? You You
[00:29] want me to catch on the blunder?
[00:31] >> Not me. That was your argument. So don't
[00:33] try to put on your stupid argument unto
[00:35] me. That was silly.
[00:36] >> Are you serious? Are we circling back?
[00:38] >> Stop stalling.
[00:40] >> You're really good at this, huh?
[00:41] >> I am.
[00:41] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, check this out.
[00:42] Let me explain to you.
[00:45] >> Was Jesus a Muslim?
[00:49] >> Obviously, I'm a Christian. I say no.
[00:52] Um, I think that uh it's it's very
[00:55] misleading what I usually hear about
[00:57] what a Muslim is. and then trying to
[00:59] apply it to Jesus and you know prophets
[01:03] before Muhammad. Um I think that we
[01:06] could start with however Dr. Nasser
[01:08] defines what a Muslim to be and then we
[01:11] can go from there.
[01:12] >> Sure. So I'm sorry. Uh what I would say
[01:14] is that yes uh of course I believe that
[01:18] Jesus peace be upon him was a Muslim and
[01:21] the reason I would say that is because
[01:24] um in my perspective you have two
[01:26] possibilities. Um, if you want to take
[01:28] from the world religions in which
[01:31] actually believe in Jesus, Islam and
[01:32] Christianity. And uh, obviously if you
[01:35] take the Quran as authoritative, then
[01:36] you're going to come to the conclusion
[01:37] that he's Muslim because he was a
[01:38] prophet of God and he therefore lived as
[01:40] prophets would. Uh, that being said
[01:42] though, if you want to just look at the
[01:43] Bible, I do believe that you are not
[01:46] going to walk away unscathed either way.
[01:48] And what I'm trying to say by that is
[01:50] that either you're going to take a
[01:51] Muslim Jesus or a Christian Jesus and
[01:53] you're going to have to navigate the
[01:55] Bible in such a way where you're not
[01:57] going to walk away with all of it
[01:58] because I don't assume univocality. And
[02:00] so from that perspective, what I would
[02:02] say is that um if you take the Muslim
[02:05] version of Jesus, what you're going to
[02:07] get is you're going to be able to
[02:08] salvage so much of the Bible. So much of
[02:10] it will make sense to you. Some of so
[02:11] much of it will be very clear that he
[02:13] was a prophet, that he prayed to God,
[02:14] that he worshiped God, that he taught
[02:15] people to worship God, etc. There's a
[02:18] day of judgment, the six pillars of
[02:19] eman, things like this. However, in
[02:22] addition to that, you'll also have the
[02:24] added bonus of having a theology that
[02:26] makes sense to you. On the flip side, if
[02:29] you embrace the Christian version of
[02:32] Jesus, what I think is going to happen
[02:34] is you're going to end up twisting or
[02:36] denying, essentially twisting to a point
[02:38] where there's no more meaning left. They
[02:39] become unrecognizable, certain verses,
[02:41] certain ideas. And then in addition to
[02:43] that, even once you're done with all
[02:44] that twisting, you're still going to be
[02:46] stuck with a theology that doesn't make
[02:47] sense to you. So therefore, of those two
[02:49] options, it makes a lot more sense to
[02:51] embrace the Muslim.
[02:53] >> Just to keep the conversation like kind
[02:54] of um
[02:57] concise, he asked like what is a Muslim?
[03:00] Can you define that?
[03:01] >> So there's linguistically a Muslim is
[03:03] one who submits to God Almighty.
[03:06] >> Okay. Uh now of course you could say
[03:09] that Islam as a religion would be the
[03:10] religion of Muhammad peace and blessings
[03:12] be upon him. So I understand that there
[03:14] is a uh we can get into that in a
[03:17] moment. Is is that what you want to
[03:18] clarify?
[03:18] >> Yeah. Basic. Yeah. Basically because
[03:20] when like what you just say you said
[03:22] that you would define a Muslim as one
[03:23] who submits their will to God, but
[03:25] there's a lot of people who believe they
[03:27] submit their will to God and you would
[03:28] say they're not Muslim.
[03:29] >> Correct.
[03:29] >> Um so when you say a Muslim is one who
[03:32] submits the will to God, you're talking
[03:33] about a specific God. You have a
[03:35] specific ideology of God. You can't bow
[03:38] to a statute and have, you know, and be
[03:40] a Muslim. You can't bow to your mother
[03:42] and think that your mom is God and be a
[03:44] Muslim. I can't bow to Jesus, believe
[03:46] he's God, and I'm a Muslim. Right? So,
[03:49] >> I think it's a it's it's important for
[03:51] us to clarify what you mean by God when
[03:54] you say a Muslim is one who submits to
[03:56] God. That's specifically the God of
[03:57] Islam, the God of the Quran and the
[03:58] Hadith,
[03:59] >> the all powerful creator of the
[04:00] universe. And and just for
[04:01] clarification,
[04:03] >> can someone be Muslim,
[04:05] you know, submit themselves to God but
[04:08] then not think that Muhammad was a
[04:11] prophet?
[04:12] >> So after the time of the prophet, just
[04:14] like in the same way at the time of at
[04:16] the time of any prophet, you have to
[04:17] recognize the prophets that exist at
[04:20] your time or before you.
[04:21] >> Okay?
[04:22] >> Right? So now that we're living in this
[04:24] time, obviously the prophet Muhammad
[04:26] came and established his whole religion,
[04:29] etc., the religion of Islam. So
[04:30] obviously you have to accept that. But
[04:31] at the time of Jesus it was accepting
[04:33] the prophet Jesus and at the time of
[04:34] Moses accepting the prophet Moses and so
[04:36] on and so forth. But all all of them
[04:37] taught the same message that God the all
[04:39] powerful creator of the universe is one
[04:40] God.
[04:41] >> Got it. So you have to accept that you
[04:44] have to submit yourself to God and you
[04:46] have to accept all the prophets to be
[04:49] Muslim.
[04:50] >> Yes. Correct.
[04:50] >> Okay. Got it.
[04:51] >> Okay. So again though, submit your will
[04:53] to what what God are you talking about
[04:55] specifically? Because when you apply
[04:57] this to the prophets, right, obviously
[04:59] Islam claims Moses, Abraham, and stuff
[05:02] like that, but the theology of who God
[05:04] is in the Quran, that's that's who
[05:06] you're talking about. It can't be
[05:08] anything out. Like, for examp
[05:14] that God, the all powerful creator sent
[05:16] the prophets. Um, and believe in these
[05:18] prophets, believe in their message, but
[05:20] believe that God is a woman and be a
[05:23] Muslim.
[05:23] >> Excellent. So I I assume let's go with
[05:25] father first, right?
[05:26] >> No, no, a woman.
[05:27] >> Oh, is a woman? No, of course not. No.
[05:28] Okay.
[05:29] >> And why is that?
[05:30] >> Because uh God is not a man.
[05:32] >> All right. So you have a specific
[05:34] ideology of humanity. Yeah. Go ahead.
[05:36] Sorry.
[05:36] >> Yeah. So you have a a specific theology
[05:38] of who God is. You have to believe in
[05:40] that specific thing, that specific
[05:41] ideology. In order to be a Muslim,
[05:44] >> you have to believe that God is one and
[05:45] is not a human creation, not an idol,
[05:48] not a plant, not a man, uh not a human
[05:50] woman, not
[05:51] >> and you believe that he's anything
[05:52] outside of what the Quran and Hadith
[05:53] tell you.
[05:54] >> Uh no, no, you have to believe in in God
[05:56] as described in the names of Allah.
[05:58] Yeah. Attitudes, the names, attributes
[05:59] of Allah.
[06:00] >> Good. So, so what we can do now here, so
[06:02] we've got that foundation. Now, let's
[06:04] apply it to Jesus.
[06:05] >> Sure.
[06:05] >> And let's see if Jesus had that
[06:07] theology. Does he teach, preach, follow,
[06:10] believe in the same God that we see in
[06:13] the Quran and the Hadith?
[06:14] >> Excellent.
[06:14] >> And so how would you demonstrate that?
[06:16] >> So u you guys are aware that uh I think
[06:18] it's Proverbs 18 I think it is that says
[06:21] uh Yahweh you are my rock, right?
[06:24] >> You said Proverbs 18
[06:25] >> I think so. Can we or Psalms Psalms 18?
[06:28] My bad. Psalms 18. My bad. I believe
[06:30] there's a few verses in there.
[06:31] >> So Yahweh you are my rock. Right. So
[06:34] what I would do in that circumstance if
[06:35] somebody says Yahweh you are my rock I
[06:38] would say I reject that. I put a big X
[06:41] on the idea that God is a rock like you
[06:43] said because it goes against our
[06:44] theology. It is not defined in our names
[06:45] and attributes of God. I reject the idea
[06:47] of God being a rock. Now I assume
[06:49] >> that that person is going to say wait we
[06:51] don't believe that God is a rock either.
[06:53] So I'd say okay well then why would you
[06:55] call God a rock? I say it's figurative.
[06:57] I'd say great great this is the
[06:58] important part. Figurative for what? So
[07:01] now we have to shift over to figurative
[07:03] for what? So we leave the literal
[07:04] meaning and now we're shifting over here
[07:06] to this mystery box called the
[07:08] figurative meaning. And the moment we
[07:10] open that mystery box, I say figurative
[07:11] for what? And they say well we say God
[07:14] meaning that we depend upon God. I would
[07:16] say ah one of the names of Allah is alw
[07:18] the one that you depend upon. So while I
[07:21] affirm that meaning that you have
[07:22] clarified, I will reject your wording.
[07:25] >> So now let's apply that to father.
[07:27] >> Wait, wait, go. So, so can you can can
[07:30] you be a Muslim and say that Allah is my
[07:32] rock?
[07:33] >> No. Uh, you you you again you reject the
[07:36] wording. You reject that. I do not
[07:38] accept this idea of rock. The moment you
[07:41] tell me though that I don't accept it
[07:43] either.
[07:44] >> I don't think of God as an actual rock.
[07:46] I said, what do you mean then?
[07:47] >> Yeah.
[07:48] >> And the figurative meaning is the one
[07:49] that you depend upon. I say that is the
[07:50] part that we agree about, not the rock.
[07:52] >> So, if they say that Allah is my rock,
[07:55] meaning that he's the one I depend upon.
[07:57] and I stand up on him. He's my
[07:58] foundation. You would still reject
[08:00] saying that Allah is your rock. I would
[08:02] not use that terminology. I use I use
[08:03] the terminology in the Quran.
[08:04] >> Gotcha.
[08:05] >> Yeah. So,
[08:06] >> yeah, we can go to father now.
[08:07] >> So, now as in terms of father, I
[08:09] understand that uh the Jews which exist
[08:12] till today, they would explain that you
[08:14] know the Israelites
[08:15] >> and Jesus was an Israelite speaking to
[08:16] an Israelite audience.
[08:17] >> Yeah.
[08:18] >> So, if he's going to use language, we're
[08:20] going to ask, okay, what does this
[08:21] language mean? Uh so whether it be the
[08:24] Jews before Jesus talking about father
[08:26] as a creator because often times it says
[08:28] he is my father comma our creator.
[08:30] That's a few times in the Bible. And so
[08:32] it seems to be father in a figurative
[08:35] sense. Now I know even after Jesus uh 1
[08:38] John 3:10 what does it say? It says it's
[08:40] just describing that the uh believers
[08:43] are children of God and that the evil
[08:46] people are children of the devil. We're
[08:47] not talking about the devil giving birth
[08:48] here. We're talking about figuratively
[08:50] speaking. So the moment you clarify this
[08:53] and explain that listen culturally when
[08:55] I say rock that's within our culture. We
[08:57] know what we're talking about. I say
[08:58] well I I'm I'm not from that culture. So
[09:00] I I'm I'm I'm going to use Islamic
[09:02] terminology that is universal. And as
[09:05] long as you clarify the meaning then I
[09:06] got no problem with that. And so the
[09:08] same thing with father. If somebody says
[09:09] God is our father I say well we don't
[09:11] use that language. You say well don't
[09:13] worry we're talking within our context.
[09:14] It has a meaning figurative for what? If
[09:16] you say the one that is a creator, he is
[09:19] loving, he's going to do or build you up
[09:21] in such a way where you reach your max
[09:22] potential, that is so he does. So this
[09:25] is these are all names of Allah. So we
[09:27] accept all of these meanings.
[09:29] >> So is Allah a father then in any sense?
[09:31] >> I just Okay, no problem. This is why I
[09:33] don't usually talk with my hands so
[09:34] much, but but I'm gonna I figured you
[09:37] try to you know, so I'm gonna maybe you
[09:38] guys can join me on this. We reject the
[09:42] literal calling because
[09:44] >> any sense. So, so let me explain. So, if
[09:46] you if you say it in a literal way,
[09:48] >> then obviously the idea of being a
[09:50] father is that you're having children
[09:51] and passing on your nature is to pass on
[09:53] your independent nature.
[09:55] >> Now, the moment you create something
[09:56] that's independent, it's dependent. So,
[09:57] now you have an independent dependent,
[09:59] it doesn't make sense. So, we reject
[10:00] that notion of literal. But the moment
[10:03] you clarify that like the Jews would,
[10:05] like the Israelites would, they would
[10:07] say obviously we don't call ourselves
[10:09] literally the children of God. This is
[10:11] our culture. This is our figurative
[10:12] language. Figurative for what? You open
[10:14] that up, you see the mystery box and you
[10:16] find certain meanings that are in line
[10:18] with Islam. We say, "Perfect. That's
[10:19] what we affirm."
[10:20] >> So, you affirm that Allah is a father in
[10:22] some sense.
[10:23] >> Let's do it again. Let's run it back. I
[10:25] can see you're not you're not you're not
[10:26] uh you're not getting it. I reject it.
[10:29] No problem. Yes. No. Yes.
[10:30] >> Yeah. Look, there's two sides.
[10:32] >> This side is the literal meaning.
[10:34] There's a big hex.
[10:35] >> I said any sense. So, that includes
[10:36] metaphorical and figurative. Is he a
[10:38] father in any sense of the word?
[10:40] >> I'm I'm explaining it to you. I don't
[10:41] accept the word father. Okay, good. Now
[10:45] when you say it's figurative, since I
[10:47] reject the word, you have to define
[10:49] figurative for what?
[10:50] >> No, I don't because I said
[10:51] >> great. Dr. Naser,
[10:54] >> any sense that means any definition, any
[10:58] meaning whether it's figurative, any
[11:00] figurative meaning, any metaphorical
[11:02] meaning? Is there any sense of father
[11:06] that you can apply to Allah?
[11:07] >> So you refuse to define your terms is
[11:09] what you're saying. So then
[11:10] >> I don't have to if look brother when I
[11:12] say any sense that means whatever you
[11:15] can think of and how you define father
[11:18] think of it.
[11:19] >> Does that apply to Allah? Yes or no?
[11:20] >> Perfect. Is God a rock in any sense?
[11:23] >> Yes.
[11:23] >> Yes.
[11:23] >> Yes. He's my he's our foundation.
[11:25] >> He's our foundation. Okay. So you say I
[11:26] can say so so you believe you believe
[11:28] that God is a rock.
[11:29] >> I believe that Yahweh is my rock
[11:30] >> figuratively. Yes.
[11:31] >> Figurative as in foundation.
[11:33] >> I just said that
[11:33] >> with that definition.
[11:35] >> I accept that definition as well.
[11:36] >> Okay. Good. I reject I reject the word
[11:37] rock because I don't believe God is
[11:39] >> then you don't believe then you're not
[11:40] you're not affirming what we're saying.
[11:42] >> You really don't understand what I'm
[11:42] saying.
[11:43] >> I do. Look, this is what you're saying.
[11:44] >> I I have trouble I have trouble
[11:45] believing you're not getting it.
[11:46] >> Well, let me let me say it. Let me just
[11:47] let me still man your point.
[11:49] >> Hold on, guys. Did you know that over
[11:51] 80% of people that watch these videos
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[12:06] All right. Now, let's get back to the
[12:08] discussion. Sure.
[12:10] >> Your point is we reject the terminology,
[12:12] but we can extract a meaning that is
[12:14] correct or proper.
[12:15] >> Not we can. Not we can. Not that we can
[12:17] that the the culture does.
[12:20] >> Bro, I'm talking to you.
[12:22] >> You just you just explained to me and
[12:24] broke down even Wait, let me help you
[12:26] out. Go ahead. You You just explained to
[12:27] me and broke down and you emphasized how
[12:29] it's like, "Okay, I got to do this
[12:30] again. I got to do this again."
[12:32] >> I just repeated to you what you just
[12:34] said to me and you said, "No, that's
[12:35] nope. That's just the culture I'm
[12:36] talking look a Muslim you're Dr. Nasser
[12:39] Muslim. Is there any sense in which the
[12:44] term father or meaning of father can be
[12:48] applied to Allah?
[12:50] >> Good.
[12:51] >> Yes or no?
[12:52] >> Got it? Now let's say I'm walking in the
[12:55] middle of I don't know some new forest.
[12:58] Okay. And I come across a tribe of
[13:00] people.
[13:00] >> Mhm.
[13:01] >> And I don't know how they use certain
[13:02] terms. I know how I use it. Mhm.
[13:05] >> And they tell me that God is a rock or a
[13:07] father or something else, anything that
[13:09] does not comply with the names of Allah.
[13:12] Instead of me telling them just that,
[13:15] no, no, I know exactly how you mean it
[13:17] because I know it's in your head. I'm
[13:18] not going to do that. I'm going to say,
[13:19] look, I know what I mean. Father is a
[13:22] word that has a meaning. It means that
[13:24] you're giving birth to somebody based on
[13:25] giving passing on your nature. It means
[13:27] that you have sexual or reproductive
[13:29] organs. So, believe me, I reject all
[13:31] that. God does not have any sort of
[13:32] reproductive organs where he's having
[13:34] babies. Okay, I reject all of that. Now,
[13:37] if they are the ones, not me, if they
[13:39] are the ones that want to clarify, we
[13:40] don't actually think of God as a literal
[13:42] father making actual babies in that
[13:44] sense, I'll say you can go ahead and
[13:46] clarify what you mean. And the moment
[13:48] they use a definition that is in line
[13:50] with the names of God, I will let them
[13:51] know those are names of God in Islam.
[13:53] >> Okay.
[13:54] >> Why is that complicated?
[13:55] >> All right. So the descriptions that you
[13:57] use the meaning of father let's say they
[13:59] use father in the sense of creator
[14:01] sustainer. So you can affirm like oh
[14:04] yeah that's good though these are
[14:05] descriptions of Allah.
[14:06] >> Yes.
[14:07] >> So then can you then apply that and say
[14:09] yeah Allah you are the father in the
[14:12] sense that you are my creator and
[14:14] sustainer.
[14:15] >> So since I don't use those terms because
[14:17] I'm not from that culture. I will say
[14:19] guys I understand your words. I don't
[14:21] need to adopt your language.
[14:23] >> That's not what I asked. I didn't ask if
[14:24] you need to adopt it. I ask as a Muslim
[14:26] can you be a Muslim and affirm that
[14:28] Allah is your father in the sense that
[14:30] he's your creator and sustainer in as a
[14:33] as a creator if you're using if you are
[14:35] using this term to strictly define God
[14:37] as a creator and sustainer I will let
[14:39] them know I fully agree with those ter
[14:41] names while I'm not interested in your
[14:42] terminology
[14:43] >> okay so I'm being very clear
[14:45] >> but that was not good enough
[14:46] >> no it wasn't cuz cuz I'm not asking what
[14:49] >> could you give a yes or no answer yes is
[14:50] that possible
[14:51] >> just just really quick cuz I'm going to
[14:52] >> I will not use that term and once Once
[14:54] it's explained, I will affirm which
[14:56] parts of the explanation I affirm. And
[14:58] in terms of the literal wording, I am
[15:00] not interested in adopting your
[15:01] language.
[15:03] >> That's Yes. What's wrong with that?
[15:04] >> I'm just trying to move the conversation
[15:05] forward. I'm just trying to
[15:06] >> So, so it's a no. It's a no. You cannot
[15:08] be a Muslim and affirm that Allah is
[15:11] your father even in a sense that he's
[15:13] your creator and sustainer. Correct.
[15:16] What?
[15:17] >> You just said you don't he can't do it.
[15:19] >> No, you just you you just you just
[15:21] shifted. You just said even in the sense
[15:23] >> very specific. No, even in the sense
[15:25] that you are using it in these
[15:26] definition and sustainer.
[15:27] >> Yeah. So, I affirm those definitions.
[15:29] So, do you not interested in using I'm
[15:30] not interested in using your
[15:31] terminology.
[15:32] >> This is this is why we're stuck here cuz
[15:34] I'm not
[15:34] >> Are you seriously not getting this?
[15:35] >> I get what you're saying, but I'm just
[15:37] >> Okay, let me I'll make I'll make it real
[15:39] easy.
[15:39] >> No, no, please. Don't let I want you to
[15:41] know.
[15:42] >> I think we all understand what you're
[15:43] saying.
[15:44] >> Yeah, we all understand.
[15:44] >> We understand what you're saying, but
[15:46] what you're saying is not answering my
[15:47] question.
[15:48] >> I'm not asking what you're interested in
[15:50] using. I'm not I'm not asking if it's if
[15:53] it's oh if if it's your preference to
[15:55] use this type of ter terminology. I'm
[15:58] asking as a Muslim, can you can you
[16:02] affirm whether or not Allah is a I'm
[16:04] sorry. Can you affirm that Allah is your
[16:07] father in the sense that he is your
[16:09] creator and sustainer? Can you Yes or
[16:11] no?
[16:11] >> I don't use that terminology.
[16:12] >> I didn't ask if you use it. Can you can
[16:14] a Muslim do that?
[16:16] >> Am I allowed to use that terminology?
[16:17] Not definitely not today because we're
[16:19] not in that culture.
[16:20] >> Okay. Boom. Let's go with that. All
[16:21] right. Not today. You cannot. So, was
[16:23] there ever a time where you can be a
[16:25] Muslim and you can refer to Allah as
[16:28] your father in the sense that he's your
[16:29] creator and sustainer?
[16:30] >> In the time of the Israelites when they
[16:31] used that terminology and they all knew
[16:33] what they were talking about. Yeah.
[16:34] >> Okay. So, yes, Allah was once a father
[16:36] and then now he's not a father. Is that
[16:38] correct?
[16:39] >> Okay. Let me let me explain why this is
[16:41] uh quite quite quite funny.
[16:43] >> So, you understand very well that so God
[16:46] was once a rock but he's not a rock.
[16:48] This is Okay. So, your friend. He's a
[16:50] rock to this day.
[16:51] >> So, am I allowed to continue my thought?
[16:53] >> Because you misrepresented. I'm sorry.
[16:54] Go ahead. Well, if I misrepresent me,
[16:56] I'll just keep cutting you off or what?
[16:58] >> I I never misrepresented you.
[16:59] >> Okay. Okay.
[17:00] >> I'm sure you don't think so. Let's go.
[17:02] Go ahead. My bad.
[17:03] >> So, um, now what I'm trying to say is
[17:05] I'll give an analogy that hopefully the
[17:07] Christians will appreciate. Maybe you
[17:08] guys will understand this.
[17:09] >> Okay.
[17:10] >> In, uh, English you call him Jesus. In
[17:14] French, you call him Ju. In, uh,
[17:16] Spanish, call him Jesus. Am I right?
[17:18] Now, let's come up with a a hypothetical
[17:20] language. Let's say there's a language
[17:22] out there that you pronounce the name
[17:24] Jesus as gay. Avery, in that
[17:27] hypothetical situation, are you going to
[17:28] say Jesus gay?
[17:30] >> You're talking about his name.
[17:31] >> See how childish this is?
[17:32] >> No, it's not childish. Let me let me let
[17:34] me show you.
[17:34] >> Yes or no? Yes or no? Can you say the
[17:36] words?
[17:36] >> Hold on. Let me let me actually help you
[17:38] out with your analogy. Your analogy is
[17:40] not analogous because we're not talking
[17:42] about simply a name. We're talking about
[17:43] the identity of the figure.
[17:45] >> No, you're talking about a name. You're
[17:47] >> No. No, I'm not.
[17:48] >> I'm talking about You're talking about
[17:49] >> Yes. An identifier. So, as an
[17:50] >> Remember, let me finish.
[17:50] >> Go ahead.
[17:53] identifier, who God is, he is the
[17:56] father. That's who he is theologically.
[17:58] A name of Jesus is not a theological
[18:00] issue. We're talking about your
[18:02] theology. So, stop trying to bring up,
[18:04] oh, a random word in a random language
[18:07] applied to Jesus. That's not analogous.
[18:09] We're talking about theology. Not yet.
[18:11] So if you So if we're if you're talking
[18:13] about can you apply certain things to
[18:15] Jesus theologically or to God
[18:16] theologically that do not fit the answer
[18:18] would be no. You understand what I'm
[18:20] saying? But so we're talking about
[18:22] whether or not you can refer to Allah as
[18:24] your father theologically. And your
[18:26] answer is yes or no.
[18:28] >> My answer is at the time of Jesus in a
[18:30] certain culture using the term rock was
[18:32] well known. Using the term father was
[18:34] well known. And
[18:36] >> okay if you don't want to hear it that's
[18:37] fine.
[18:38] >> So was using the word bell. The
[18:39] Israelites called God bell too. Is that
[18:41] is that okay?
[18:42] >> If at that time they were using
[18:44] terminology that was in line with a
[18:46] meaning that is actually comports and is
[18:49] incompatible with the names and
[18:50] attributes of God. What's the issue?
[18:52] >> Okay, good. So when they when they said
[18:54] that God was their was their husband, is
[18:56] that okay for that was Allah once a
[18:58] husband?
[18:59] >> Great. So if I come across a people that
[19:01] say to me we believe God is a husband, I
[19:04] will tell them I reject that language.
[19:06] If they then say, wait, no, I know
[19:08] you're going to interrupt. That's okay.
[19:09] You were going to say, "I reject that
[19:11] language cuz I use the word husband a
[19:14] certain way." If they tell me in our
[19:16] culture, we have a certain figurative
[19:18] language. We do not mean husband in a
[19:20] sense that he has a wife. We don't mean
[19:22] it that way. I would say, "Would you
[19:23] like to explain as they explain either
[19:25] when we open that mystery box and take a
[19:27] look inside?" And we see that the
[19:29] figurative language means something
[19:30] else. Either it's going to comport and
[19:32] be incompatible with the names of God or
[19:34] it won't.
[19:35] >> Hey, quick break from the conversation.
[19:36] I want to give a big shout out to Logos.
[19:39] So, Logos is an app that helps people
[19:42] study the Bible. They also have courses,
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[20:22] want to learn and get deeper with your
[20:24] faith, go sign up for Logos. And now
[20:27] let's get back to the episode.
[20:28] >> So when I asked you when they referred
[20:31] to God as their husband, was there a
[20:34] time where there where Allah was a
[20:36] husband in a correct sense?
[20:38] >> In the same sense he's a rock. How about
[20:40] that?
[20:40] >> So is that a yes
[20:42] >> in a culture that uses that language?
[20:45] How is this complicated?
[20:46] >> It's complicated. It won't answer my
[20:47] direct question.
[20:48] >> He's just not saying yes or no. That's
[20:49] why
[20:49] >> of course because what is wrong with the
[20:51] explanation? I do not use this
[20:53] terminology today because calling God a
[20:55] wrong asked you today and we understand
[20:56] that. We understand that.
[20:57] >> So that's why I don't use it.
[20:58] >> I asked is at that time I got you. I
[21:02] already answered that.
[21:02] >> So is it a yes at that time was a
[21:04] husband?
[21:05] >> At that time if they used it and they
[21:06] would explain it from that meaning they
[21:08] could say anything just the same.
[21:09] >> So is that a yes one? At that time Allah
[21:11] was a husband.
[21:12] >> Was he a husband? Do you see what he's
[21:13] doing? This is this is the same thing as
[21:14] is Jesus gay. This exact same thing.
[21:16] >> No it's not.
[21:16] >> It's a little
[21:17] >> That's all you're doing. You're playing
[21:18] you're playing games. Hold on. Hold on.
[21:19] Hold on. It's a simple question. Hold
[21:21] on. Hold on. Let's I want you guys to be
[21:23] clear about this. There could be a
[21:24] language in the world
[21:25] >> where people use the name Jizu Jesus
[21:30] Yeshua Jesus and say gay.
[21:32] >> Yeah. Just for
[21:33] >> No, no, no. Hold on, hold on. Please
[21:34] answer the question. Yeah, sure.
[21:35] >> In that situation, is Jesus gay?
[21:37] >> If that's if that's what they term him
[21:38] as gay, we can call him we can refer to
[21:40] them as that name. Fantastic.
[21:41] >> Absolutely. So now you see I answered
[21:43] you. So now it's your turn. So I said
[21:45] it. So yes, all as a husband at that
[21:48] time. If they use that terminology with
[21:50] this meaning, then I affirm the meaning.
[21:53] Well, I'm not interested in the
[21:54] language. So,
[21:55] >> yes.
[21:56] >> Yeah. If they use that meaning, I'm I'm
[21:58] clarifying. Why is this not clear?
[21:59] >> It's a yes. Allah was a husband in a
[22:02] correct meaning back then or no, he
[22:04] wasn't. We can't affirm that at all. So,
[22:07] is it yes, he was a husband back then?
[22:10] Was that cor? Was that okay terminology
[22:12] to use for?
[22:12] >> Let me clarify now because I don't know
[22:15] about the history of can I go back to
[22:17] that time and know that that's what they
[22:19] meant. So I will not say that that was
[22:21] affirm. But if that's what they mean
[22:22] then I I have no problem with a culture
[22:24] any culture saying any word as long as
[22:26] they clarify it.
[22:26] >> Yeah.
[22:27] >> All right.
[22:28] >> I think just just to for clarification
[22:31] >> when you're using your um example,
[22:34] you're using the word gay as a name.
[22:36] Mhm.
[22:37] >> He's using the word father as like a
[22:40] >> theology.
[22:41] >> Like a theology.
[22:42] >> So you want me to adopt the theology?
[22:43] >> A theological analogy.
[22:44] >> He's using a theology, but don't adopt
[22:46] the theology. What are you guys talking
[22:46] about?
[22:47] >> No, I'm just clarifying the difference
[22:49] between the analogies. That's all.
[22:51] >> Right. So he's trying to usher in an
[22:53] entire theology behind that word. No.
[22:55] >> Why can't I Why can't If that's the
[22:57] case, Actually, I'm glad you clarified
[22:58] that. So you're telling me that he's
[23:00] using the word father, including an
[23:02] entire theology, and you're upset that
[23:04] I'm clarifying my theology. So, no, I'm
[23:06] not upset. Well, you're saying you're
[23:07] saying you're not answering. You're not
[23:08] clear enough about your theology. Let me
[23:10] unpack it each and every single time,
[23:12] please. Like you just said, he's using
[23:14] that word for the sake of inserting his
[23:16] theology. So, it's a really good idea
[23:18] for me not to say yes or no, but to
[23:20] unpack the theology. So, please don't
[23:22] act like this is unclear.
[23:23] >> Let me respond to this. It is clear.
[23:26] Fantastic. I'm just trying to just ask
[23:28] the same question 50 times.
[23:29] >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's why I want
[23:30] to try to get
[23:31] >> because he doesn't like the fact that I
[23:32] actually respond to this. Let me respond
[23:33] to this. Let me tell you why it's a
[23:35] theological issue, Dr. Nasser. Because
[23:36] one, in your book in chapter 9:30, it
[23:39] says that whoever says that Jesus is the
[23:41] son of Allah, that they're cursed and
[23:43] they're copying the sayings of those who
[23:44] disbelieved before them. This is a
[23:47] theological issue in your religion.
[23:49] >> Now you see it see ushering in.
[23:51] >> Yeah. Let's keep going. Let's keep
[23:52] going. Now we understand. In chapter
[23:54] 19:3, it says that there's none in the
[23:57] heavens or the earth that can come to
[23:58] the most beneficient except as a slave.
[24:00] You can't in the context. fact start
[24:04] chapter 19 sir Miriam chapter 19 verse
[24:06] 93 I'll start in 88 because in 8 it
[24:08] starts with the idea of rejecting
[24:10] >> he's he's going to be packing on how
[24:12] many verses until which one's going to
[24:13] answer he's on two so far my brother my
[24:15] brother I'm responding to what you just
[24:17] said you just had your little you know
[24:18] little thing respond to
[24:19] >> you if you're going to post the Quran
[24:21] can I can I respond to the first one or
[24:24] which one would you like to respond to
[24:25] before we pack on more
[24:26] >> please hold on let's do this let's give
[24:29] him 30 seconds to a minute finish his
[24:31] point and then give you
[24:33] >> should I take notes and write down each
[24:34] of the verses that he's citing or no?
[24:36] >> Um if you could try to stick to like
[24:39] I'll just use these two.
[24:42] I won't I won't go to the others. Great.
[24:44] I'll just use these two. So you have
[24:46] throughout your Quran I won't even quote
[24:48] them because I don't want them to get
[24:50] overwhelmed. You have all these verses
[24:52] in your Quran specifically the two I
[24:54] mentioned that directly connect the idea
[24:56] of God being a father or having children
[24:58] with a theological conundrum.
[25:00] >> There you go. that if you affirm that
[25:02] Allah is a parent in any way, shape or
[25:05] form, then you are a disbeliever.
[25:08] You would agree that being a believer
[25:09] and a disbeliever is a theological
[25:12] issue, right?
[25:13] >> Can you can you say the word disbeliever
[25:14] slower and more clearly?
[25:15] >> Sure.
[25:17] >> Disbelief.
[25:19] So, would you would you agree that
[25:20] that's a that being a believer and a
[25:22] disbeliever
[25:24] are theological issues?
[25:26] >> Yeah.
[25:26] >> Awesome. So you agree that this father
[25:28] thing is a theological issue, not just a
[25:30] name and title. It's theology. And so if
[25:33] your theology does not match Jesus,
[25:35] Jesus can't be a Muslim. This is the
[25:37] problem. That's why you're trying to fix
[25:38] this.
[25:39] >> Okay, perfect.
[25:41] >> Do the Jews use their terminology the
[25:43] same way?
[25:44] >> As who?
[25:45] >> As Jesus.
[25:46] >> No.
[25:47] >> No, he didn't.
[25:47] >> No. Jesus referred to himself as the
[25:49] begotten son of God. The Jews are
[25:50] >> So there's no other begotten sons of
[25:51] God?
[25:52] >> No.
[25:52] >> There's no other begotten son of God.
[25:54] No. In the Bible?
[25:54] >> No.
[25:56] Okay. Uh, so uh, you do realize that
[25:59] Jesus was speaking to the Israelites.
[26:02] >> Speaking of who?
[26:03] >> Speaking to the Israelites. He was an
[26:05] Israelites speaking to the Israelites.
[26:06] >> In what context?
[26:08] >> Every context. He was an Israelite
[26:10] speaking to Israelites. Are you not
[26:11] aware of this?
[26:11] >> Well, there's some No, not every
[26:13] context. There's some context. He was
[26:14] just speaking to uh the Greeks. There
[26:17] sometimes he was just speaking to the
[26:18] Romans.
[26:18] >> Speaking broadly speaking, who was he
[26:20] who sent to the lost sheep of Israel?
[26:22] No.
[26:22] >> Sent to the lost sheep of Israel.
[26:23] Dealing with Canaanite women. Great. So,
[26:25] what I'm saying is that there was a
[26:27] certain theological uh implication at
[26:29] that time, a certain understanding of
[26:31] the term father. Yes or no?
[26:32] >> Uh, it depends on the context.
[26:34] >> And are you doing your best to usher
[26:35] that completely out? Yes or no?
[26:36] >> No.
[26:37] >> No. No. Are you just asserting one
[26:38] meaning, right? You just said the word
[26:40] father has a very specific theological
[26:42] meaning and apparently you divorced it
[26:43] from the entire Jewish history. Correct.
[26:45] >> That's a good point. Let me let me
[26:46] respond to you.
[26:47] >> Great.
[26:47] >> Dr. Nasser, I am not limiting the term
[26:51] father, the theology of father to one
[26:53] meaning. According to Islam, listen.
[26:56] According to according to Gohead, let me
[26:58] show you why. According to your
[26:59] religion,
[27:01] there's no meaning in which father can
[27:05] be used. You cannot be a Muslim and
[27:09] affirm theologically that Allah is your
[27:11] father in any sense.
[27:14] >> And where does it say that in the Quran?
[27:15] >> And be a Muslim.
[27:16] >> Is that true?
[27:17] >> So, let me let me explain this. God in
[27:19] the Quran says in what is it uh chapter
[27:22] 5:18
[27:23] right
[27:24] >> good verse
[27:25] >> good verse right
[27:26] >> yes
[27:26] >> so what does it say
[27:27] >> it it says that the Jews and the
[27:28] Christians say we are the sons of Allah
[27:30] his loved ones and it says then say why
[27:33] does he punish you for your sins perfect
[27:35] >> no you are but men and Allah punishes
[27:37] who he wills and he has mercy on he on
[27:39] who he wills and to him you will return
[27:41] >> and how do you understand that verse
[27:42] >> that the Jews and Christians are saying
[27:44] that they are the sons of God
[27:45] metaphorically and Allah rejects That's
[27:47] it.
[27:48] >> Wrong.
[27:49] >> What? Let me explain. Break it down. Let
[27:51] me explain. Do you think uh do you know
[27:53] what the word means?
[27:54] >> No.
[27:55] >> You use it all the time. I've heard you
[27:56] say it many times.
[27:57] >> I I
[27:58] >> You know that word?
[27:59] >> No.
[27:59] >> You don't say habibi all the time?
[28:00] >> Oh, habibi.
[28:01] >> There you go. What's the plural of
[28:02] habibi?
[28:03] >> I don't know.
[28:04] >> Okay.
[28:04] >> That's what you're quoting.
[28:05] >> Okay.
[28:05] >> Do you think it's wrong for me to
[28:07] believe that somebody that that that
[28:08] people can become beloved to God?
[28:10] >> Uh, no.
[28:11] >> No, it's not wrong. So when God says the
[28:13] Jews and the Christians, they say we are
[28:14] the children of God and we are his
[28:17] beloved ones. Is this saying that you
[28:19] can't? No, it's it's completely haram
[28:21] and evil that a human being be beloved
[28:23] to God. No, of course not.
[28:24] >> Right?
[28:25] >> It's perfectly allowed. So is it
[28:26] possible
[28:27] >> at the same time for someone to say as
[28:30] the Jews do, we're the children of God.
[28:32] Clearly that verse is not condemning
[28:34] that concept. What is God condemning in
[28:36] this in this particular circumstance?
[28:38] It's the idea of saying I know that I am
[28:41] super righteous according to God that I
[28:44] this is the same thing as chapter 53
[28:45] verse uh I'm going to remember the verse
[28:49] Allah says what that he knows do not
[28:52] Allah says commands do not ascribe
[28:54] purity to yourself don't ascribe and
[28:57] purity to yourself he knows who is more
[28:59] righteous so the criticism here is
[29:01] clearly not about the terminology
[29:03] because there's nothing wrong with
[29:04] somebody being you guys knowhib the
[29:07] famous fighter Khabib. He fought here in
[29:08] Vegas,
[29:09] >> you know, fighting Conor McGregor. His
[29:11] name is Habib. Is that a haram term?
[29:14] >> No. It's not a haram term. The most
[29:16] famous fighter in the world, his name is
[29:17] Habib. So clearly, God is not saying
[29:19] these are haram words. You can't use
[29:20] this terminology. So that verse that you
[29:23] I know you thought it was a big one for
[29:24] you. It actually refutes you.
[29:26] >> Oh, it refuts me. Absolutely. All right.
[29:28] Let's bring Let's bring
[29:28] >> No. Can I go to Well, you said I You
[29:30] said I can respond to two.
[29:31] >> Well, no. I said
[29:33] that's the whole point of packing on, is
[29:35] it not? I didn't I didn't do that to
[29:36] you, but okay.
[29:37] >> You didn't pack on two and I said you
[29:39] and then tell me respond.
[29:39] >> I quoted two verses. I didn't go in and
[29:41] explaining two verses,
[29:43] >> right? So, what's the pointing a bunch
[29:44] of them?
[29:45] >> When you just broke down, I just
[29:46] generalized the idea of what what of how
[29:49] Allah deals with the subject of being a
[29:51] having a son. What you just did was you
[29:53] gave a full ex Jesus on the verse and I
[29:56] can't respond on your ex Jesus right
[29:58] now.
[29:59] >> So, but if
[30:00] >> let's just go to the second point.
[30:01] >> Thank you.
[30:01] >> Okay. So in terms of where it says no
[30:04] one can come to God except as a servant.
[30:06] I assume what your point is uh what
[30:08] you're trying to say here is that
[30:09] obviously there's a uh these are
[30:11] diametrically opposed. You can't be both
[30:12] a servant as well as like a child of
[30:14] God. Is that your point?
[30:16] >> Yes.
[30:18] >> Then you just threw Isaiah 53 under the
[30:20] bus.
[30:23] >> Is that your point?
[30:24] >> Yeah.
[30:25] >> Okay. Awesome. All right. So let's
[30:27] >> suffering servant, right?
[30:27] >> Yeah. Yeah. Son of God. Let's work back.
[30:29] >> You said you said yes. I work for I work
[30:31] backwards. You're you're welcome for the
[30:33] clip. This is going to embarrass you.
[30:34] >> Yellow.
[30:35] >> Isaiah 53 is not Islamic theology.
[30:38] >> Dr. That's why I asked you and you Dr.
[30:40] Nasser.
[30:41] >> You asked me about what I understand
[30:43] about your Quranic text.
[30:46] >> Yeah.
[30:46] >> Your Quranic text has nothing to do with
[30:48] biblical theology.
[30:49] >> What's your point about So I can a I can
[30:52] have a a position on a Quranic text
[30:56] without it having anything to do with
[30:57] Thank you very much. without it having
[30:59] to do with my biblical understanding of
[31:02] my biblical text. That that that don't
[31:04] make no sense. So, uh thank you for that
[31:06] clip.
[31:07] >> Right.
[31:07] >> Chapter 5:18. Now, let's go back with
[31:09] your iso Jesus in chapter 5:18. You said
[31:12] it's not about the terminology. It's
[31:13] exactly about the terminology. That's
[31:15] why it mentions it. We the Jews and
[31:18] Christians say, what do they say? Oh, we
[31:21] are the sons of Allah, his loved ones.
[31:24] Then say
[31:24] >> and his loved ones.
[31:25] >> Why does that's what I said. You just
[31:26] you said sons of a lot of loved ones you
[31:29] have and his loved ones. So it means
[31:31] there's two terms going on.
[31:32] >> Sure. No. No worries. And he denies
[31:33] both.
[31:35] >> No. Wrong.
[31:35] >> What he said?
[31:36] >> So you just said he denied.
[31:37] >> He denies what happened to you.
[31:39] >> He denies both when they're calling them
[31:41] their sons and and and his loved ones.
[31:43] Let me show you how.
[31:43] >> So it's wrong. Look at this. Invoc this
[31:46] verse. He said he even acknowledges that
[31:49] the Jews are referring to themselves as
[31:51] children of God in a metaphorical way in
[31:54] the in the way that they follow the
[31:55] prophets and that God looks after them.
[31:57] And guess what Allah says? No. He says
[32:01] no. Why then does he punish you for your
[32:04] sins? Implying that if you were his
[32:06] sons, his sons and his beloved ones,
[32:08] let's let's combine the two, right?
[32:10] Because the two of them
[32:11] >> they're two things. They're both terms
[32:13] and you're denying both. Makes sense. So
[32:14] that's what your hey deal with your
[32:16] Quran not me. So he says no why then
[32:20] does he punish you for your sins? This
[32:21] is in direct contrast to Moses in
[32:24] Deuteronomy Deuteronomy chapter 8 where
[32:26] God says to Israel that as a father I
[32:29] discipline you just as a father
[32:31] disciplines his sons so I discipline you
[32:34] in the wilderness and punish them for
[32:35] their sins. Take them through the hard
[32:37] times. So according to Jesus's theology
[32:40] and Moses theology, God does ex God does
[32:42] punish a son for his sins, his beloved
[32:44] ones for the sins. But in in in uh in
[32:46] Islam, if you are his son and his
[32:48] beloved one, that's not what he would
[32:50] do. Do you see? This is showing the
[32:52] theology in in the Quran is completely
[32:55] contrary to the theology of Jesus and
[32:57] the prophets. That's why he's not a
[32:58] Muslim.
[32:59] >> Good. Yeah. So Allahh about eight
[33:03] different categories of people he
[33:04] describes as those who he loves.
[33:08] Indeed Allah loves.
[33:11] It talks about different people. Those
[33:12] who are patient, those who rely upon
[33:13] God, those who uh uh those who have tawa
[33:16] sons those who are so he loves the what
[33:19] is happening.
[33:22] >> Did you see how quiet it was?
[33:23] >> Look men you was chiming in when I was
[33:26] talking. Come on.
[33:28] >> For the listeners for the listeners,
[33:29] let's like give them like 30 seconds to
[33:31] >> Thank you. So what I'm trying to say is
[33:33] that very obviously throughout the
[33:35] Quran, Allah t affirms that he loves
[33:38] people. So your objective which is to
[33:40] say that chapter 5 verse 18 is blaming
[33:45] these people and saying this is evil
[33:47] language and you can't use this
[33:48] language. Clearly if you say that it's
[33:51] wrong to use both of these terms then
[33:54] that would mean that you can't call
[33:55] yourself beloved of God but throughout
[33:56] the Quran people are beloved to God. Now
[33:59] we don't use that terminology. That's
[34:00] why God specifically says the Jews and
[34:03] the Christians use this type of
[34:04] terminology right now. We recognize that
[34:07] and we understand that. Why don't you?
[34:09] Because of your messed up theology. You
[34:11] guys you guys started attributing a
[34:12] literal son to God. And so that's why in
[34:13] soda 9 they said God doesn't actually
[34:16] have kids at that time. If you want to
[34:18] say these are children the two parties
[34:20] in in the world children of God and
[34:21] children of the devil. When you use
[34:22] terms like that we're like yeah we get
[34:24] you. We don't use that terminology but
[34:25] we get you. If you're going to twist
[34:26] that into RA R Roman paganist ideas that
[34:30] include the idea that oh the emperor is
[34:32] a child of God or a representative of
[34:34] God on earth and then you mix
[34:35] Christianity with all this and you have
[34:37] all these issues now then it's much
[34:38] better for God to clarify and say what
[34:41] even when you use this terminology do
[34:43] not attribute purity to yourselves. It's
[34:44] not saying that the the terminology is
[34:47] uh completely prohibited because if it
[34:48] was completely prohibited then what that
[34:50] would imply is that hhib is not
[34:52] something allowed.
[34:53] >> Now we don't use that terminology. We
[34:55] don't use that terminology. I want to be
[34:56] clear about that. So, we don't have to
[34:58] use that because obviously it got
[34:59] corrupted and so it has a bunch of
[35:01] different meanings. But we understand
[35:03] what people mean.
[35:04] >> And that verse is talking about do not
[35:06] attribute purity to yourself. Especially
[35:08] when the idea is that look, you could be
[35:10] a good person some days and a bad person
[35:11] others. The idea that, oh, I I I I
[35:13] joined a group. I'm either Jewish or I'm
[35:15] Christian. Therefore, I'm just beloved
[35:17] to God no matter what. I am considered
[35:18] so pure that I'm a son of God in all
[35:20] circumstances. I understand what you
[35:22] mean. You're talking about just being a
[35:23] righteous person. And I'm letting you
[35:24] know that that level of arrogance is not
[35:26] allowed.
[35:26] >> Okay. Can I Let's clear.
[35:28] >> Okay. So, there's two things that I
[35:30] noticed.
[35:30] >> One, you contradicted yourself.
[35:32] >> Great.
[35:32] >> Because you just said that you don't use
[35:34] the termhabib, but you did affirm that
[35:37] Habib calls himself Habib, and there's
[35:39] nothing wrong with that.
[35:39] >> You just misunderstood.
[35:40] >> I No, I I I think I do understand what
[35:42] you're saying that being Habib Allah,
[35:44] you cannot affirm that of yourself.
[35:46] >> Of course, there's people named Habibah.
[35:48] I think my great-grandfather was named
[35:49] Habibah.
[35:49] >> Then, but then why did you just say you
[35:51] can't use the term? You can't attribute
[35:52] it to yourself. My listen listen.
[35:54] >> Got it?
[35:55] >> Can somebody be Look, look, look. It's
[35:57] like it's like the word righteous here.
[35:58] Let's make it real simple for you. Can I
[35:59] walk around saying I'm a righteous
[36:00] person? I'm a righteous person. Look,
[36:02] let God judge. I'm a I'm aspiring to be
[36:05] a righteous person. I'm aspiring to be
[36:07] beloved by God. I want to be beloved by
[36:09] God. And you know what? That guy over
[36:10] there, he seems like he's beloved by
[36:11] God. I think he is. But do I know for a
[36:12] fact that we are the loved ones of God?
[36:14] That's arrogant.
[36:15] >> So you can't you can't as a Muslim, you
[36:17] can't affirm that you're the loved one
[36:18] of God.
[36:20] So believers are beloved to God. Allah
[36:23] says, let me explain. Allah says,
[36:26] "Allah loves those who are patient. Do I
[36:28] try to exercise patience?" Of course.
[36:30] >> I understand. Dr. Nasin, my question was
[36:32] very simple. As a Muslim, can you affirm
[36:35] for yourself that you are beloved of
[36:36] God?
[36:37] >> No, I will not. I will not I will not
[36:39] arrogantly declare that I know God loves
[36:41] me. No, God judges me. I don't I don't
[36:43] tell God what to think.
[36:44] >> This this is another this is another
[36:45] thing that is contrary to the to the the
[36:47] teachings of Jesus. The teaching of
[36:49] Jesus. Jesus says that you are the loved
[36:51] ones of your father. Just like he takes
[36:54] care of the of the birds, just like he
[36:56] dresses the liies. How much more are you
[36:58] worth to him than these? Jesus says that
[37:00] those of us who are believers, those of
[37:02] us who are in the kingdom, we are
[37:04] beloved of God. This is another contrary
[37:06] thing with Muslim theology and Christ's
[37:09] theology. It's completely opposite.
[37:11] That's number one.
[37:13] Wait, he's going to pack on remember I
[37:16] said I said two things.
[37:17] >> It's adding to the point.
[37:18] >> Sure. Number number two, you said that
[37:22] um that this term of father and these
[37:24] other terms uh are are are basically
[37:27] removed because people misused them.
[37:29] They attributed them to false things,
[37:31] false worship. And so that's why Allah
[37:34] took the initiative to remove these
[37:36] these terminologies from from the
[37:38] theology basically correct to correct
[37:40] them. Right? Okay. So now this is where
[37:42] I think that you messed up here as well
[37:44] because in chapter chap in chapter five
[37:46] it's I think it's verse number 73 or 72
[37:50] if I'm not mistaken. Do you are you are
[37:52] you familiar with who it says the
[37:54] Christians say Allah is?
[37:56] >> You have to remind me.
[37:57] >> It says that the Christians or though
[37:59] I'm sorry it doesn't say Christians
[38:00] specifically but it says those who say
[38:02] that the Messiah is Allah. So they were
[38:05] referring to the Messiah is Allah. Is
[38:08] that an incorrect or correct way to use
[38:10] the term Allah? to call Allah
[38:12] >> to call Messiah the to call the Messiah
[38:14] Allah. No, we don't call.
[38:15] >> So then why do you still use the term
[38:17] Allah if it was being misused by the
[38:18] Christians or the people calling the
[38:20] Messiah Allah?
[38:21] >> This is why I should have responded to
[38:23] the first point. What was the first
[38:24] point? Are you Are you
[38:26] >> Yeah, I'm you don't have a response
[38:27] right now. You're stalling. Can you
[38:28] respond to what I just said?
[38:30] >> Why is it the case?
[38:32] >> Why do I I'll repeat it. Why do you use
[38:34] the term Allah today when it was being
[38:36] misused by those who were calling the
[38:38] Messiah Allah when your point was that
[38:41] Allah deleted the term father and
[38:42] deleted all these other terms from the
[38:44] theology because people attributed these
[38:46] things to false idols, false gods,
[38:48] corrupt theology, Roman Greek theology
[38:50] and mythology. So he removed this stuff
[38:52] because it was misused.
[38:53] >> So you have to go.
[38:54] >> Why? So why didn't he mis why didn't he
[38:56] remove the term Allah when it was being
[38:59] misused by those who were saying that
[39:00] the Messiah is Allah?
[39:02] So what what is the solution here to to
[39:05] now get rid of the term God?
[39:06] >> Don't ask me. This was your point.
[39:08] >> This is the weirdest. I've never I never
[39:10] imagined someone would say that because
[39:13] somebody said God is I don't know a
[39:16] frog. And now we have to get we have to
[39:19] keep the word frog but get rid of the
[39:20] word God. That's your point.
[39:21] >> What you said that listen your point was
[39:23] and I'll repeat it again because I I can
[39:25] still man you over and over. You said
[39:27] and you agreed that that that you said
[39:28] this. you agreed that I understood your
[39:30] your I represented you well. Your point
[39:32] was is that the reason why Allah got rid
[39:35] of terms like sons and daughters and
[39:37] father was because people misused these
[39:40] terms and applied it to false theology
[39:42] in Greek mythology and mixed it up. I
[39:44] got your answer. I got so they're good.
[39:47] So they're mixing up the term Allah with
[39:49] false theology saying that the Messiah
[39:51] is Allah.
[39:53] >> Why then did he not get rid of the term
[39:54] Allah?
[39:54] >> Because he never gets rid of the term
[39:56] God. the the term God itself is fine.
[39:58] That's the stable actual definition of
[40:00] who God is, right? So, you use the term
[40:02] God and then you could attribute names
[40:04] to God like a husband or I think there's
[40:06] one verse that said, "Oh, rock." There's
[40:08] another one that says it's like a
[40:09] birthing mother or something like that,
[40:10] screaming in pains of birth or something
[40:12] like this, right? So, these add-ons,
[40:13] these tags, if they get completely
[40:16] messed up and twisted, then naturally
[40:17] you're going to say, "Listen, you guys
[40:18] have a very messed up theology. You
[40:20] shouldn't use these types of terms
[40:21] because apparently some people took it
[40:23] literally, and that's a real big
[40:24] problem." Now, can I get back to the
[40:25] first verse? I don't remember what it
[40:26] was.
[40:27] >> So, no, you're not going to get rid of
[40:28] the base concept of God because somebody
[40:30] said, "Oh, look over there. This idol is
[40:33] a God." Well, now we have to throw away
[40:34] the word God because he attributed that
[40:35] idol to God.
[40:37] >> No. What? Okay. Anyway, what was the
[40:39] first verse? What was the first one?
[40:40] >> He was talking about God loving us.
[40:41] >> Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Now we
[40:42] got it. Being compared to the beloved of
[40:44] the father. Yeah. Exactly. Are there no
[40:46] such thing as hypocrites in
[40:47] Christianity?
[40:48] >> Sure.
[40:48] >> Okay. So, doesn't Jesus say when they
[40:50] said come to him saying, "Lord, Lord,"
[40:51] he said, "Get away from me. I never knew
[40:52] you."
[40:52] >> Some of them.
[40:53] >> Yes. And doesn't that mean that they're
[40:54] not guaranteed? because they thought
[40:55] they were guaranteeing their
[40:56] >> the hypocrites aren't the but the ones
[40:57] who call the ones who are not hypocrites
[40:59] who identify him as Lord gets into
[41:00] heaven. I don't know. My point is you
[41:01] guys got to drop that you got to drop
[41:02] this this this line of like what you
[41:04] don't know oh I feel so sorry for you
[41:06] you're not going to heaven when what is
[41:08] it there's a particular verse that says
[41:10] you might lose your what's it called
[41:11] secured position right there's that
[41:13] verse that specifically says that you
[41:14] can lose your secure position why
[41:16] because what verse yeah
[41:18] >> 2 Peter 3:17 to18 be on your guard so
[41:22] that you may not be carried away by the
[41:24] error of the lawless and fall from your
[41:25] secure position is this talking about
[41:26] like security guards no secure position
[41:28] means faith you have solid faith but
[41:30] it's not guaranteed. You can fall from
[41:32] your secure position. There are such
[41:33] people that say that they're Christian.
[41:34] They think that they're guaranteed, but
[41:35] they're hypocrites. They run to Jesus
[41:36] saying, "Lord, Lord," he says, "Get away
[41:38] from me. I never knew you." Lawless
[41:39] people. Anomos,
[41:41] right? Anomos lawless. Doesn't Paul talk
[41:45] about being anomos at some point. Are
[41:48] you asking for me a response or
[41:51] >> That was a question.
[41:52] >> Okay. So, I'm I'm going to give a full
[41:53] response if that's okay. Dr. Nasser
[41:55] Yolo. Okay. So, um, we're we're not
[41:59] we're not talking about hypocrites,
[42:00] brother. We're talking about what God
[42:02] affirms for himself. I don't care about
[42:05] the hypocrites. Jesus himself says that
[42:08] we are the beloved of the father. You
[42:10] didn't touch that. But you went on to
[42:12] talk about hypocrites for some reason.
[42:13] That's relevant.
[42:14] >> What religion are they?
[42:15] >> The hypocrites.
[42:16] >> Yes.
[42:16] >> They claim to be Christians. Who cares?
[42:18] >> There you go.
[42:18] >> All right. What What What about the true
[42:20] the true Christians? Are they
[42:21] >> obviously true believers go to heaven?
[42:22] What are you talking about?
[42:23] >> But are you affirmed?
[42:24] >> True believers are beloved to God.
[42:25] Obviously, you ask me if I'm if I'm
[42:26] arrogant enough to say I know I'm
[42:27] perfect. I know I'm I know that I'm
[42:29] solid with God. I've never had hypocrisy
[42:30] in my heart. No, the whole purpose of
[42:32] life.
[42:32] >> That's not what I was saying. You
[42:33] >> I don't know what you're talking about.
[42:34] >> I'm so please follow me.
[42:36] >> Sure.
[42:37] >> You were talking about how it in Islam
[42:40] you cannot refer to yourself as the
[42:42] beloved of God. That's what you said.
[42:44] And but in Christianity,
[42:46] >> you can and you are affirmed as the
[42:49] beloved of God. You specifically That's
[42:51] what I'm saying. Missed it. And so, hold
[42:52] Let me let me I can just clarify that
[42:54] one point. Go ahead. There's a
[42:55] difference between me attributing to
[42:57] myself versus the idea of people being
[42:59] beloved. That's the difference.
[43:00] >> I I I know. Great. Go ahead.
[43:02] >> So, what I'm saying is is that in
[43:03] Christianity with Jesus's theology, you
[43:06] can affirm that you are the beloved of
[43:07] God. Matter of fact, you can go
[43:09] confidently before God and affirm
[43:11] yourself as the beloved of God. This is
[43:13] what Jesus teaches.
[43:13] >> The moment you become Christian,
[43:15] >> the the the second you're a believer,
[43:17] the moment you're a believer,
[43:18] >> there's no hypocrites. There's no such
[43:19] thing as hypocrit.
[43:19] >> No, that's that has nothing to do with
[43:21] hypocrisy. Please focus. Focus. Are you
[43:23] joking? The point is is that the
[43:25] theology that Jesus is preaching is
[43:27] opposite of the theology we're finding
[43:29] in Islam. So you can't say Jesus is a
[43:31] Muslim when he has the opposite
[43:32] theology. When he has the opposite idea
[43:34] of who God is, what he desires from us,
[43:37] who we are to God versus Islam, you
[43:39] can't say he's a Muslim when now uh uh
[43:42] talking about your passport. Um
[43:44] >> No, no. Can I respond to this in just a
[43:46] second? Let him do his whole thing in a
[43:47] second. Let him respond. I don't want to
[43:49] change the subject.
[43:49] >> Are you going to change the subject?
[43:50] >> Yes. Well, I wanted to cuz he mentioned
[43:52] a lot before he just made a huge blunder
[43:53] about the name of
[43:54] >> Let me catch the blunder before you
[43:55] change the subject. No, you don't want
[43:57] You don't want You don't You want me to
[43:58] catch on the blunder,
[43:59] >> bro? He got away with the Allah thing
[44:01] with the the the the term God.
[44:03] >> You don't drop the term God. Look. Yes.
[44:04] >> I just want to do a quick response to
[44:06] that.
[44:06] >> Hilar No. No. You just said you just
[44:08] said every person that converts to
[44:10] Christianity, every person that converts
[44:12] to Christianity is now beloved the
[44:13] second they become Christian. And that
[44:15] means they're all beloved. They can say
[44:16] confidently that I'm beloved. That means
[44:18] what? that if they're all beloved and
[44:20] they're all correct and they're all
[44:21] saved, there are no hypocrites. He acted
[44:22] like he didn't get it. I know you got
[44:24] it.
[44:24] >> That's not what that means. That's so
[44:25] silly.
[44:26] >> I think the point of
[44:27] >> Yeah, exactly. There are hypocrites.
[44:28] >> I I personally think that the point of
[44:31] you explaining that Jesus teaches us
[44:34] that we're loved by God is like very
[44:36] important.
[44:36] >> Yeah.
[44:37] >> So, I would like to kind of like stick
[44:39] to that point cuz I feel like the
[44:41] definition of a law thing is important,
[44:43] but
[44:44] >> we're bouncing back and forth between
[44:45] two topics. The reason why the reason
[44:47] why I'm bringing that up is because it
[44:48] brings a a huge hole in his argument on
[44:51] why Allah takes away the term father or
[44:53] son and daughter because it's misused
[44:56] but but
[44:58] unfortunately for him the term Allah is
[45:00] misused as well and they were calling
[45:02] the Messiah Allah. So why doesn't he
[45:05] take away that? That destroys his entire
[45:07] argument that oh well the only reason
[45:08] why it's not it's not used anymore is
[45:10] because it was misused. No, because if
[45:12] that was the case, if it was consistent,
[45:14] the word Allah would be gone, too. But
[45:16] it's not. So, you can't say that this is
[45:18] why the term father is no longer used.
[45:20] Matter of fact, you have to affirm that
[45:21] it was used before in Islamic theology
[45:23] and then show me where it's abregated.
[45:25] That's what you have to do. That's why
[45:27] that's important to respond.
[45:28] >> And I definitely get that. I feel like
[45:30] we've said that already like two to
[45:32] three times in a circle.
[45:33] >> How many times is father even mentioned
[45:36] in the Old Testament? There's a number
[45:37] of times that he's called that the
[45:38] they're called the sons and there's a
[45:40] number of times where he's called father
[45:41] >> and none of them apply to Allah.
[45:43] >> And my point is that clearly this isn't
[45:46] like the the standard name for God.
[45:49] Right?
[45:49] >> It's the standard identity for God.
[45:51] >> No standard identity in the Old
[45:53] Testament is Yahweh
[45:55] >> that he is your and it says Yahweh is
[45:57] your father
[45:57] >> who created
[45:58] >> how many times?
[45:59] >> A bunch. You got Isaiah multiple times.
[46:02] uh in Deuteronomy multiple times, in
[46:04] Malachi multiple times,
[46:05] >> and it also says Yahweh is your rock.
[46:08] >> Okay. Absolutely.
[46:09] >> And guess what? If people worship rocks,
[46:11] there's nothing wrong with saying, "You
[46:12] know what? You should stop saying that
[46:14] God is a rock because these literal
[46:16] idoltors think that you're speaking
[46:18] literally and you're going to say, "No,
[46:19] no, no. Don't get the get rid of the
[46:21] word rock. Let's hold on to the word
[46:22] rock. Get rid of the word God. That's
[46:24] your solution."
[46:25] >> No. See, this is this that was your
[46:26] solution. Come on, man. Follow along
[46:29] with your own. Are you joking? You're
[46:30] the one who said the solution is getting
[46:31] rid of the words, not me. That was your
[46:33] argument. So don't try to put on your
[46:35] stupid argument unto me. That was silly.
[46:38] I'm showing you. I'm showing you. Yeah.
[46:40] No, it's not. I'm not calling you
[46:42] stupid. The argument was dumb. But
[46:44] you're then you're applying the argument
[46:45] to me like that's my position. My Let me
[46:47] be it clear to you. My position is not
[46:50] let's get rid of the word because people
[46:51] misuse it. Guess who said that, ladies
[46:53] and gentlemen? Dr. Nasser said that. I'm
[46:56] saying that you can get you can correct
[46:58] the meaning and give them like hey like
[47:00] for example okay hold let me finish
[47:03] let's run with this let me finish go
[47:04] ahead I appreciate it thank you you can
[47:07] correct the meaning that yes God is your
[47:09] rock in this way not that God is an
[47:11] actual literal rock inimate object so
[47:14] you the the there's nothing wrong with
[47:16] the word it's the meaning that's the
[47:17] problem but with you guys it's meaning
[47:20] and terminology for father it's wrong
[47:23] you're a disbeliever you're going to
[47:24] hell you cannot refer to Allah as your
[47:26] father. Never have, never can, never
[47:28] will. So, so for you to pretend like
[47:31] this is once okay in some way or oh, you
[47:34] know what, not the word, but I see what
[47:36] you guys are talking about. As a Muslim,
[47:38] you cannot. Which is why when you bring
[47:40] up Hold on.
[47:41] >> Which is why when you bring up Jesus
[47:43] speaking to Jews, this is what I wanted
[47:44] to touch on specifically. Jesus,
[47:46] >> don't let him change.
[47:48] I'm on the same thing. Trust me,
[47:50] >> y go for it.
[47:51] >> When you talked about who did Jesus talk
[47:52] to to the Jews, right? So he talked to
[47:54] them in a way that they they would
[47:55] understand. Correct? This is what this
[47:57] is an analogy that Jesus gave them a
[47:58] parable.
[47:59] >> He said that there was a a vineyard
[48:01] owner who gave his vineyard. Let let uh
[48:04] someone the tenants borrow his vineyard.
[48:05] Watch. Just pay attention. I promise
[48:07] it's going to click.
[48:07] >> I got to write these down cuz I I have a
[48:09] response for both.
[48:09] >> No, no, no. Just pay attention. Go for
[48:11] it.
[48:11] >> He said that there's tenants that the
[48:12] vineyard owner gives uh uh lets them
[48:15] borrow.
[48:15] >> 21 Matthew.
[48:16] >> Then he begin. He goes away. He then
[48:18] sends servants. Yeah. I'm glad you know
[48:19] it. He then sends servants to go collect
[48:22] the pro the produce of the vineyard. But
[48:24] when he sends his servants, guess what?
[48:26] They kill him. They reject him. They put
[48:28] him out, beat them. Then what did he
[48:31] what does he do? Then he says, you know
[48:33] what? I'll send my son. They will surely
[48:37] respect my son. And then when they when
[48:40] the son appears, they say, "Oh, this is
[48:41] the heir, the one who is in the
[48:44] inheritor. If we take him and kill him,
[48:47] we can take his inheritance." They kill
[48:49] him and throw him outside. Jesus says,
[48:50] "What do you think he was he's going to
[48:52] do to those tenants?" They said, "He's
[48:53] going to destroy them, take them, and
[48:55] give the vineyard to someone else." So,
[48:57] notice what Jesus does. The v the the
[48:59] tenants is Israel.
[49:01] The servants being sent to Israel, the
[49:04] prophets. The son of the vineyard owner,
[49:06] who is God, is Jesus. Jesus makes a
[49:10] difference, a distinction between
[49:12] himself as the son of God and the
[49:15] prophets and Israel.
[49:17] Is that okay for Jesus to do to separate
[49:20] himself as the unique son of God apart
[49:23] from the servants, the prophets, and
[49:24] apart from Israel?
[49:26] >> Can I speak? Can I have us floor?
[49:28] >> Go ahead.
[49:29] >> No interruptions.
[49:30] >> If you can respond to this directly
[49:31] >> as long as you don't interrupt, that
[49:32] would be great.
[49:34] >> So God
[49:36] is the literal thing of what we're
[49:38] talking about, right? We're talking
[49:38] about God.
[49:39] >> Yeah.
[49:40] >> Father is figurative.
[49:42] >> It makes sense to get rid of the
[49:43] figurative meaning when it's causing
[49:44] problems. Just imagine if somebody says
[49:47] this idol is our creator and then he's
[49:49] suggesting get rid of the term creator
[49:52] but creator is a literal term because he
[49:54] literally created us. We're going to
[49:55] throw out that term. No, I'm fine
[49:57] throwing out figurative terms if that is
[49:59] an issue. It makes sense.
[50:01] >> Yeah.
[50:02] >> Throw out literal terms that God is our
[50:04] creator. Oh guys, they called that this
[50:05] one creator, so we have to throw it out.
[50:06] Please tell me that's clear to you
[50:08] because that is a bad argument. Now
[50:09] point number two. Unfortunately for you,
[50:11] >> you just said your argument is bad.
[50:13] You just said your argument is bad.
[50:15] >> Yeah, that's exactly what I said.
[50:16] >> Yeah, that's that's been your argument
[50:17] the whole time.
[50:17] >> You don't have to always posture like
[50:19] you're winning. I get it. I get it. You
[50:21] have to always posture like you're
[50:22] winning.
[50:22] >> I know it hurts. It's okay.
[50:24] >> This guy's always winning. He can't
[50:26] lose. I know. It's
[50:26] >> so It's so sad, right? Look, man. If you
[50:29] need if you need your ego that badly to
[50:31] me, I'm chilling, bro.
[50:32] >> At what point do you stop interrupting?
[50:34] >> No. No. Cuz he has to keep reminding the
[50:36] audience that he's winning. Otherwise,
[50:37] they might think that he's not winning.
[50:38] I'm winning. I didn't say that.
[50:39] >> So, so he speaks, I'm quiet, right? When
[50:41] I speak, he has to remind them. Guys,
[50:43] I'm better. Guys, I'm winning. Guys, I'm
[50:44] right. He just said he's wrong. Right. I
[50:46] just said I'm wrong.
[50:47] >> He's upset, guys.
[50:48] >> Did you see?
[50:49] >> Let's just let him go. Yeah,
[50:50] >> I am. I'm
[50:53] >> Bro, look. Look.
[50:55] >> Louder and more confident, please.
[50:57] >> Okay. Okay. Please finish your point.
[50:59] >> Fantastic. Now, Matthew 21 doesn't help
[51:01] you very much.
[51:01] >> Perfect.
[51:02] >> Because we're talking about people
[51:03] understanding in context, right? And so,
[51:05] what did the people understand in
[51:07] context?
[51:08] When you go through the entire parable,
[51:10] at the end of it, apparently there was a
[51:12] bunch of Pharisees and they want to get
[51:14] rid of him. They want to do something to
[51:15] harm him.
[51:16] >> And everybody concluded in the crowd,
[51:18] they were like, "We can't attack him or
[51:20] do anything bad to him because there's
[51:21] all these people that believe in him and
[51:22] they believe that he is clearly the son
[51:24] of God." No, wait. That's not what it
[51:26] says. What does the final verse say?
[51:28] What do all the people conclude? Is
[51:30] Jesus a really bad orator? Is he really
[51:33] bad at communication? Or is it possibly
[51:35] the case that after giving that entire
[51:37] parable, the people who clearly believed
[51:39] in him and understood exactly what he
[51:41] meant and actually wanted to support him
[51:42] concluded that he's a what? What is the
[51:44] final word in that entire passage? That
[51:46] they concluded he was a what?
[51:49] >> Matthew 21. Guys, what do they conclude
[51:51] that he was?
[51:51] >> We're we're trying not to cut you off.
[51:53] >> Prophet.
[51:54] >> Yeah. Cuz if if I engage, he going to be
[51:55] he going to cry.
[51:56] >> If you ask questions, he's going to
[51:57] respond and then
[51:58] >> Very nice.
[51:58] >> Yeah. They concluded he was a prophet.
[52:01] And so I am perfectly fine understanding
[52:03] that when those people in that context
[52:05] use certain language and they come to
[52:07] certain conclusions especially the
[52:08] sincere ones around him that want to
[52:09] understand him and they did a good job
[52:11] of understanding him conclude that he's
[52:12] a prophet then I'm going to conclude the
[52:14] same thing. Now if you later on 2 years
[52:18] later say you know what they concluded
[52:19] he was a prophet but you know what I
[52:21] conclude something different that's
[52:22] great that's fantastic you go ahead but
[52:24] I'm fine concluding what they concluded.
[52:26] So, are you saying like in the Bible
[52:28] Jesus didn't teach that God was our
[52:30] father?
[52:32] >> That's what you've gotten this whole
[52:34] time.
[52:34] >> I'm just asking. Yeah. Like in general
[52:35] because it it sounds like you're saying
[52:36] that
[52:37] >> Okay, let me explain it to you.
[52:38] >> Okay.
[52:40] >> If at their time they had a culture
[52:43] which the Jews still maintain till
[52:44] today, so I can't believe this is
[52:46] confusing for you guys. They still
[52:48] maintain this. It's figurative language.
[52:49] So if he used that figurative ledge,
[52:51] which I don't know for a fact because I
[52:52] didn't live 2,000 years ago, but we have
[52:54] reports and it seems there's a lot of
[52:55] reports about this. So let's say that
[52:57] either a it's inauthentic or b it is
[53:00] authentic and they use it in the same
[53:01] culture that we can literally track till
[53:03] today.
[53:04] >> Mhm.
[53:04] >> And c that this is how the Jews used it
[53:06] before him and after him and even in the
[53:09] New Testament itself, you have people
[53:10] talking about being the blessed be the
[53:13] peacemaker for they the children of God
[53:14] were the sons of God. Mhm.
[53:16] >> So why is this like oh my god this guy
[53:18] he's crazy for thinking that maybe it's
[53:21] figurative and all I'm saying is that in
[53:23] Islam since you guys took this idea of a
[53:25] literal son and since that makes no
[53:28] sense logically maybe it's better
[53:30] instead of having a completely messed up
[53:31] theology to believe in one God only not
[53:34] a a god that's having babies or excuse
[53:36] me one baby. He tells us be fruitful
[53:38] multiply. Apparently he only had one
[53:39] kid. That's fine. I don't know why but
[53:41] that's cool. So apparently he's got one
[53:43] kid, right?
[53:44] >> They're all his children.
[53:45] >> Oh, so we are now.
[53:46] >> Well, I'm just
[53:47] >> Oh, yeah. Exactly. So the So see see
[53:49] what's happening.
[53:49] >> Can I engage with
[53:51] >> I I I I do. I'm just trying to like for
[53:53] me I'm not like this theological deaf
[53:55] person, but I But
[53:57] >> I'm glad you saw the little the pivot.
[53:59] We are, but we're not. And then we are.
[54:00] So this is exactly the point.
[54:02] >> I would say I would say that we are. But
[54:04] I'm just asking like to me in the Bible
[54:06] it seems kind of clear that Jesus is
[54:10] teaching us that God is the father.
[54:13] >> It's explicit.
[54:14] >> It's like very clear that he teaches God
[54:16] is the father and God also loves us.
[54:19] >> Like we are the beloved of God.
[54:21] >> He loves the believers and God loves the
[54:22] believers in this go around telling
[54:24] everybody I know I'm going to heaven.
[54:25] I'm telling you cuz there's such thing
[54:26] as hypocris which apparently you guys do
[54:28] and don't affirm simultaneously. But you
[54:30] guys do affirm that God loves us. Brian,
[54:33] let me respond to this real. Okay, thank
[54:34] you. So, uh, number one, Romans 5
[54:38] chapter, uh, Romans 5'8 says that while
[54:41] we were still sinners, that God shows
[54:42] his love for us. That while we were
[54:44] still sinners, Christ died for us. So,
[54:46] unlike Islam where Allah only loves
[54:48] those who believe. He does not love the
[54:50] unbeliever. Christ Jesus loved the
[54:53] disbeliever and the sinner while we were
[54:55] still in rebellion against him. Complete
[54:57] different. Matthew 21, you said that you
[55:00] conclude that Jesus is a prophet after
[55:02] all of this.
[55:02] >> They did. They did. Well, and and you
[55:04] said that you will do the same. So So
[55:06] don't Yeah. Don't distance yourself from
[55:08] it. You said you do the same. I want to
[55:09] ask you then. So you affirm that in
[55:12] Matthew 21 when Jesus calls himself the
[55:15] son of God, distinct from the the
[55:17] prophets and distinct from Israel, the
[55:20] one who inherits what God owns in the
[55:22] heir of God. You're saying that he's a
[55:24] good Muslim prophet. Saying that?
[55:25] >> May I respond?
[55:26] >> Yes, please. Directly though. Yes. Let
[55:29] me clarify. I am not saying that I agree
[55:31] with everything being said in the Bible.
[55:32] I already said this. I already made this
[55:34] clear. My initial initial position is
[55:36] that I'm not affirming everything.
[55:37] You're affirming it. So, I'm trying to
[55:39] argue from your position. If you believe
[55:41] in this passage and you're saying
[55:43] clearly, it's so obvious. Anybody with
[55:45] half a brain is going to figure out that
[55:46] he's clearly the son of God. I'm
[55:47] pointing out to you that the people at
[55:50] the time who spoke that language and
[55:51] knew that culture and were listening to
[55:52] his words, if you're going to call him
[55:53] the logos, maybe he knows how to talk,
[55:55] right? maybe he knows how to communicate
[55:57] and if they all came to the wrong
[55:59] conclusion then that's kind of a
[56:00] problem. So if that story actually took
[56:02] place and if those people made that
[56:04] conclusion then I can understand why
[56:06] they would conclude he's a prophet. But
[56:08] do I am I refer am I am I asserting that
[56:10] everything in that in these gospels are
[56:12] 100% true. No. But I'm saying that
[56:14] generally speaking when you look at
[56:15] scholarship as they have the earlier you
[56:18] go in terms of the Bible passages you
[56:20] find that the christologology is very
[56:21] low and as you get further and further
[56:23] away from Jesus the christologology gets
[56:24] higher and higher. So what you have are
[56:26] scholars concluding that Jesus was a
[56:29] Jewish messianic uh preacher,
[56:32] apocalyptic preacher, and so therefore
[56:35] that is in line with Islam. Does that
[56:36] mean I affirm everything in the Bible?
[56:38] >> No, you're going way off of what I asked
[56:39] you. Can I Thank you. So
[56:40] >> no, I don't affirm the Bible. I don't
[56:41] affirm the Bible. But if I were to
[56:43] accept that passage and I would say he's
[56:45] a prophet because they they did, too.
[56:46] >> I got you. So my question wasn't whether
[56:48] or not you accept him as a prophet.
[56:50] That's good. I already know you do that.
[56:51] That wasn't my question. My question was
[56:54] based on what you said that based on the
[56:56] parable them concluding that Jesus is a
[56:59] prophet and you would too. That's what
[57:02] you said. I also conclude that he's a
[57:05] prophet based off of this. So my
[57:07] question is this. Can Jesus be a Muslim?
[57:10] Would a good Muslim prophet give a
[57:12] parable where he ex uh where he claims
[57:16] to be the son of God distinct from the
[57:20] prophets and distinct from the nation of
[57:23] Israel as the heir of God and the one
[57:26] who inherits what God owns. Is that a
[57:29] Muslim prophet?
[57:30] >> No. No, definitely not.
[57:31] >> Thank you. He just affirmed Jesus is not
[57:32] a Muslim in the Bible.
[57:33] >> No, I So, yeah, exactly right that I
[57:35] totally I already can see that a long
[57:37] time ago. I already can see there are
[57:38] plenty of uh biblical passages that I
[57:40] completely don't understand and don't
[57:41] know how to reconcile whatsoever because
[57:44] um yeah like I said uh him you know you
[57:46] guys say that he becomes a curse right
[57:48] this is this is no I definitely don't
[57:50] agree with the Bible so my my point is
[57:51] this there are other passages for
[57:54] example like uh Luke 2:52 right Jesus is
[58:00] growing in wisdom right
[58:02] >> what does that have to do with him being
[58:03] a Muslim
[58:04] >> because men grow in wisdom and so if a
[58:07] the so let me explain.
[58:08] >> Okay,
[58:08] >> the Muslim version of Jesus is that he's
[58:10] a man. He's a prophet and he's growing
[58:12] in wisdom.
[58:13] >> Do you think that this passage is
[58:14] referring to Jesus as just a man or do
[58:16] you assert that this is talking about
[58:17] Jesus the hypothatic union both fully
[58:19] man?
[58:19] >> Yes, it's talking in regards to his
[58:20] humanity for sure. So there you go. So
[58:22] there you go. So how many so here's my
[58:23] question that we're not talking about
[58:26] whether or not Jesus is God.
[58:27] >> Let me ask you Jesus could be a Jesus
[58:29] could be just a mere man and not be a
[58:31] Muslim.
[58:31] >> My question is this.
[58:32] >> How does this prove he's a Muslim?
[58:33] >> Let me let me explain. How many passages
[58:35] would you say in the Bible are strictly
[58:37] affirming his humanity?
[58:38] >> There's a there's a bunch.
[58:39] >> There's a bunch. So, would you say those
[58:40] are all Muslim versions of Jesus as a
[58:43] man?
[58:43] >> No.
[58:44] >> Are they Christian versions?
[58:45] >> Yes.
[58:45] >> Yes.
[58:46] >> Because he's just a man.
[58:49] >> Number
[58:51] one, it doesn't say that he's just a
[58:52] man. It affirms his his humanity. It
[58:54] never says that he's just a man. That's
[58:56] number one. Number two, notice what
[58:58] you're doing here. Notice the shift.
[59:00] Now, you're trying to shift to the deity
[59:01] of Christ when that's not the subject.
[59:03] Let me let me for the sake of this
[59:05] imaginary world, let's say Jesus is not
[59:07] God. For the sake of this conversation,
[59:10] smart move.
[59:10] >> Prove he's a Muslim
[59:12] >> because he submitted himself to one God
[59:15] as a prophet.
[59:16] >> Which God?
[59:17] >> The creator of the universe.
[59:18] >> Who did he say that was?
[59:20] >> I believe the term he used was uh was it
[59:23] Adonai?
[59:24] >> No, he didn't use that.
[59:25] >> What's the term that he used in the
[59:26] Bible?
[59:26] >> He used Abba.
[59:26] >> No, not did he use Abba?
[59:29] >> Here, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one
[59:30] God. How do you say it?
[59:31] >> Oh, hold on. Oh, hold on a second. Did
[59:33] he use the term aba?
[59:36] >> Yes. And we already
[59:37] >> What does aba mean?
[59:37] >> It means father.
[59:38] >> Is that a good Muslim?
[59:40] >> Like I said in the Are you serious? Are
[59:43] we circling back?
[59:44] >> Stop stalling.
[59:46] >> You're really good at this, huh?
[59:47] >> I am.
[59:47] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, check this out.
[59:48] Let me explain to you. He was an
[59:50] Israelite speaking to Israelites. And
[59:51] Jews today use the term father to not
[59:55] >> No, they're Jews and they're speaking in
[59:56] a context.
[59:57] >> It's a wrap.
[59:57] >> Does it's a rap? Huh? Do you believe in
[59:59] that your God is a rock? Is it a rock?
[01:00:01] Yes.
[01:00:01] >> He's a rock. You worship a rock. There
[01:00:03] you go. Look at how childish
[01:00:04] >> this foundation, man.
[01:00:06] >> You guys are You guys are really This is
[01:00:08] like Why do you Why do you tolerate
[01:00:09] this?
[01:00:11] >> How do you tolerate this? Is your God a
[01:00:12] rock?
[01:00:13] >> Yes, I already said yes.
[01:00:14] >> Then that makes sense. You worship the
[01:00:16] creation, not the creation.
[01:00:17] >> That's what Moses said. He's the rock of
[01:00:18] Israel.
[01:00:20] >> Okay. So, let me ask you this. Let me
[01:00:22] ask you.
[01:00:22] >> So, you want to avoid Luke 252 or not?
[01:00:25] >> I'm I'm Look, let's do it. Luke 2:52.
[01:00:27] Sure. How does Luke 2:52 prove that he
[01:00:30] is a Muslim, my brother?
[01:00:32] >> Okay, I see what you're doing. Okay, do
[01:00:34] you understand? Uh, okay. Let me ask you
[01:00:35] this. Maybe this will clarify for you.
[01:00:36] You can clarify for yourself.
[01:00:37] >> Okay.
[01:00:38] >> Was Moses a Christian?
[01:00:39] >> Um, you can say, "Yeah, I was a follower
[01:00:42] of the Messiah."
[01:00:43] >> Answer. Answer. See how childish that
[01:00:45] is?
[01:00:45] >> I just said, "Yeah,
[01:00:46] >> he said he was a Christian."
[01:00:48] >> Yeah. Yeah.
[01:00:48] >> So, so he's a Christian.
[01:00:50] >> Technically terminology. Yeah.
[01:00:51] >> So, isn't that complete anacronistic?
[01:00:53] >> No,
[01:00:53] >> that's not anacronistic.
[01:00:54] >> No, cuz he was a follower of the
[01:00:55] Messiah. Christ was is was the one.
[01:00:57] >> So the religion of Christianity has no
[01:00:58] meaning.
[01:00:59] >> Can I answer you? No. The religion of
[01:01:01] the religion of Christianity is to be a
[01:01:03] follower of Christ. The follower and
[01:01:04] believer of the Messiah. Moses believed
[01:01:07] and followed the Messiah especially in
[01:01:09] the wilderness. Matter of fact, Jude 1
[01:01:11] 4:5 says that it was Jesus who saved the
[01:01:15] people out of the land of Egypt. That's
[01:01:17] Jude 1:5. So according to the scripture,
[01:01:20] it was Jesus leading Moses and the
[01:01:22] Egyptians out of uh the land of Egypt
[01:01:25] and into the wilderness and into the
[01:01:27] promised land. Moses was a follower of
[01:01:29] Christ and therefore a Christian by
[01:01:30] terminology.
[01:01:30] >> So was he a Jew?
[01:01:31] >> Absolutely.
[01:01:32] >> So he's a Jew.
[01:01:33] >> Ethically ethically.
[01:01:34] >> So he was a Jew and a Christian.
[01:01:35] >> Absolutely.
[01:01:36] >> Did he ever use the words Jew or
[01:01:37] Christian?
[01:01:38] >> Um not to my knowledge.
[01:01:39] >> Great. So he's not a Jew, not a
[01:01:41] Christian, but a Jew and a Christian.
[01:01:42] >> Wait, why are you saying he's not a Jew
[01:01:44] or not?
[01:01:44] >> Because he never he never claimed to be.
[01:01:46] >> Why? Why does that mean that he's not a
[01:01:47] Jew or a Christian?
[01:01:48] >> He never taught a religion called
[01:01:49] Judaism.
[01:01:50] >> But why? How does that make him not a
[01:01:51] Jew?
[01:01:52] >> Uh how does uh uh uh Jesus not saying
[01:01:55] that I'm a Muslim make him not a Muslim?
[01:01:57] >> That's not my argument. Did I Brian,
[01:01:59] you've been listening? Have I ever
[01:02:00] brought up the argument Jesus never said
[01:02:02] he was a Muslim, so therefore he's not a
[01:02:03] Muslim. Is that what I said?
[01:02:04] >> What's it called?
[01:02:05] >> I never brought that.
[01:02:06] >> I believe you guys call the fall of
[01:02:07] equivocation.
[01:02:08] >> Just really quick, just really quick.
[01:02:09] >> Try your best not to straw man me.
[01:02:12] >> Sure. Because I would agree with you
[01:02:13] that that's a weak argument for Jesus
[01:02:15] not to say I'm a Muslim so that means
[01:02:17] I'm No, that's a weak argument. I would
[01:02:18] never use that. Deal with the arguments
[01:02:20] that I'm using. Matter of fact, Luke
[01:02:21] 2:52 like you keep holding on to. Let's
[01:02:23] deal with that. Yeah.
[01:02:24] >> Luke 2:52, Jesus grew in wisdom and
[01:02:26] stature before men and God.
[01:02:27] >> Yeah.
[01:02:27] >> How does that prove he's a Muslim?
[01:02:29] >> Because he's not God and he's a man and
[01:02:31] he's a prophet. He's called He called
[01:02:32] himself a prophet. He asserted that he's
[01:02:34] a prophet. He taught the oneness of God.
[01:02:36] He taught exactly what every prophet
[01:02:37] teaches. And he doesn't affirm
[01:02:39] Christianity because he's growing in
[01:02:40] wisdom. And God doesn't grow in wisdom.
[01:02:41] He's all wise.
[01:02:42] >> I got you. So any man who claims to be a
[01:02:44] prophet and claims to be a follower of
[01:02:45] God as a Muslim.
[01:02:47] >> See, this is exactly my point.
[01:02:49] >> Uhhuh.
[01:02:49] >> This is exactly my point.
[01:02:50] >> My point, too. I'm I'm Look, I'm going
[01:02:52] with you, bro. I'm going with you on
[01:02:54] your reasoning. And so I'm I'm taking
[01:02:56] your reasoning to its comfort.
[01:02:57] >> When you when you ask the question, is
[01:02:58] he a Muslim? Are you saying the follower
[01:03:00] of Muhammad making Hajj and all the
[01:03:01] specific details? No. Let me please let
[01:03:03] me finish. Am I talking about that in
[01:03:06] particular? No. But we understand in
[01:03:08] Islam that there's different types of
[01:03:09] Sharia. There's different types of laws
[01:03:11] and that's fine if there's details that
[01:03:13] are different. But if Jesus taught that
[01:03:16] God is one to be good, to be charitable,
[01:03:18] to be kind, to work for judgment day,
[01:03:21] right? This is exactly the foundations
[01:03:23] of Islam. This is the foundations of
[01:03:26] monotheism, not trinitarianism.
[01:03:29] This is the foundation of what Moses
[01:03:30] taught. And I'm fine with the fact that
[01:03:32] there are small differences in terms of
[01:03:33] so when you want to jump on say what
[01:03:35] about every detail of Islam I would say
[01:03:37] well if you're talking about the
[01:03:38] religion and all of its details then no
[01:03:40] but if you're talking about the theology
[01:03:41] and how there is a progression which you
[01:03:43] understand because you just said Moses
[01:03:44] was a Christian which is completely
[01:03:46] anacronistic
[01:03:48] right but you could just say whatever
[01:03:49] because he's a Jew and he's a Christian
[01:03:51] simultaneously and he's neither because
[01:03:52] he never used either of those terms. So
[01:03:54] what would we call it? What would we
[01:03:55] call it to submit yourself to one God?
[01:03:57] What would we call it Islam? I know you
[01:03:59] have a problem with that, but that's
[01:04:00] actually what it's called. It's called
[01:04:01] submitting yourself to one God, obeying
[01:04:02] him, being somebody who speaks the
[01:04:04] truth, gives charity, praise to God,
[01:04:06] works so that you can be a good person,
[01:04:09] favorable by by God, and expecting
[01:04:10] judgment day.
[01:04:11] >> I got you. So,
[01:04:12] >> why is this complicated?
[01:04:12] >> So, so watch this. I'll show you why
[01:04:14] it's complicated.
[01:04:15] >> Sure. Go for it.
[01:04:15] >> The double talking. If I say, hey, um,
[01:04:19] if a man claims to be a prophet, claims
[01:04:21] to preach one God, claims to believe in
[01:04:23] prophets, claims to, uh, give charity,
[01:04:26] and claims to be preaching the truth,
[01:04:28] but the one God and creator of all
[01:04:29] things that they're appealing to is
[01:04:30] their statute in their backyard. Is that
[01:04:32] person a Muslim?
[01:04:33] >> Oh my goodness. You're still going back
[01:04:34] to this?
[01:04:35] >> You're still going back to this?
[01:04:36] >> Yes or no?
[01:04:37] >> If you appealing to a statue like a
[01:04:40] rock, then I would say that is
[01:04:41] blasphemous. But if you are using the
[01:04:43] term rock to mean not literally but the
[01:04:45] thing you depend on, then it's fine. It
[01:04:47] says in statue.
[01:04:47] >> I said a statue,
[01:04:48] >> right? It's a rock.
[01:04:49] >> A statue.
[01:04:50] >> A statue is made of rock, right?
[01:04:51] >> Sure. Fantastic. So So I guess I guess a
[01:04:54] little bit of clarification is required,
[01:04:55] isn't it?
[01:04:55] >> I said a statue.
[01:04:56] >> A statue is made of rock. Yeah, I
[01:04:58] definitely reject that God is a rock.
[01:04:59] And wait, you said God is a rock, right?
[01:05:01] Oh, do you want to clarify? Oh,
[01:05:03] everybody starts laughing. Unbelievable.
[01:05:05] >> It's okay, Dr. Nasis. Okay. So, so
[01:05:07] listen, if you're talking about, so you
[01:05:09] just said that no, if a person claims to
[01:05:11] be a prophet, claims to be preaching the
[01:05:13] message of God, claims to believe in
[01:05:15] other prophets, gives charity, and does
[01:05:17] good to others, but yet the God that
[01:05:19] they're talking about is a statute they
[01:05:21] have in their backyard, whether it's
[01:05:22] gold or rock, it doesn't matter, a
[01:05:23] statue, you would say, "No, that's
[01:05:25] blasphemous. This person is not a
[01:05:26] Muslim." Correct. This is why your
[01:05:28] definition of Islam or Muslim is it
[01:05:31] means nothing. It means nothing because
[01:05:33] anybody can be a Muslim by what you just
[01:05:35] defined. But you would say, "No, this
[01:05:37] isn't a Muslim because you have a
[01:05:39] specific idea of who God is." You have a
[01:05:41] specific tell my idea. Tell us my
[01:05:43] specific idea.
[01:05:44] >> Sure. Sure. The the the the the idea of
[01:05:46] God in Islam is the God who's not
[01:05:48] triune. He's a singular. He is a
[01:05:50] singular person in his essence. He does
[01:05:52] not begin nor is he begotten. He has no
[01:05:54] children in any sense. He is unlike his
[01:05:56] creation.
[01:05:56] >> You keep on ushering in any sense.
[01:05:58] >> No, that's what your Quran says. Oh,
[01:06:00] >> we we dealt with that in 5:18. We dealt
[01:06:01] with that very clearly.
[01:06:02] >> You said no. You affirmed it.
[01:06:04] >> No, I didn't. I said that God recognizes
[01:06:06] that these people claim that we are the
[01:06:08] children of God. Metaphorically, they
[01:06:10] claim that we are the beloved of God.
[01:06:13] And so God is telling them, "Don't
[01:06:15] attribute purity to yourself." But even
[01:06:17] when Christians say, "Aren't we all the
[01:06:19] children of God? Can we all calm down?
[01:06:21] Aren't we all children of God?" Muslims
[01:06:22] don't freak out. Say, "No, not in any
[01:06:24] sense." Because I know what you're
[01:06:25] saying, man. We're you're not saying it
[01:06:26] in the divine sense that there was a man
[01:06:27] that was actually God. You're saying,
[01:06:28] "Guys, let's chill out. We're all the
[01:06:30] blessed be the peacemaker for the
[01:06:31] children of God. I would say look I
[01:06:32] don't use those terminology but I
[01:06:33] totally get your point that it's a
[01:06:34] righteous man.
[01:06:35] >> Do you agree with that?
[01:06:36] >> Yes, I agree with it as the Jews would.
[01:06:39] >> So you agree that a peacemaker is a
[01:06:40] child of God.
[01:06:42] >> They're Jewish. Look at you're trying to
[01:06:43] usher this is this is a you're playing
[01:06:45] games every time
[01:06:45] >> that
[01:06:46] >> I agree that when the Jews speak Yes.
[01:06:49] Actually yes yes yes children of God in
[01:06:51] the sense of in the sense of because
[01:06:54] obviously according to you we're not
[01:06:55] talking about divinities are we? We're
[01:06:57] talking about beloved people to God
[01:06:58] because obviously there's not a bunch of
[01:06:59] Jesus running around, right? So you're
[01:07:01] talking about righteous people, right?
[01:07:02] So thank you for clarifying your meaning
[01:07:04] and in that meaning I got no problem
[01:07:05] because you making it very clear.
[01:07:06] >> All right. So So just to be clear, you
[01:07:08] are okay at affirming as a Muslim. A
[01:07:11] Muslim can affirm that Allah is their
[01:07:14] father in the sense that they are a
[01:07:16] peacemaker. So therefore they are a
[01:07:17] child of Allah.
[01:07:18] >> You got to be you got to be seriously
[01:07:19] bored of him running these same circles
[01:07:22] when I've already clarified that the
[01:07:23] Israelites use that terminology and we
[01:07:25] respect what they use. And we No, hold
[01:07:27] on. We understand. We understand that
[01:07:29] terminology.
[01:07:30] >> Please chill.
[01:07:30] >> No, don't talk to him. Talk to me.
[01:07:32] >> Calm down.
[01:07:32] >> Talk to me. Answer the question.
[01:07:34] >> Easy.
[01:07:35] >> So, is that a yes?
[01:07:37] >> Is that a Is that a yes?
[01:07:38] >> Are you going to keep yelling?
[01:07:39] >> I'm just asking. Is that a yes?
[01:07:40] >> I need to take a breath.
[01:07:41] >> Is that a yes?
[01:07:42] >> I'm posturing like I'm winning. Take a
[01:07:43] >> Is that a yes? This doesn't This doesn't
[01:07:45] work, brother. You're making yourself
[01:07:46] look This is embarrassing.
[01:07:47] >> Oh, man. This is so embarrassing.
[01:07:48] >> It is. Okay. Okay. Okay.
[01:07:50] >> I love posturing.
[01:07:50] >> Is there Is there Is there
[01:07:52] >> Can I answer? Can I answer?
[01:07:54] >> You didn't You're not answering. You're
[01:07:55] just Yeah, you're answer. You can't stop
[01:07:57] posturing like you won.
[01:07:59] >> Just chill out for a second. I'm going
[01:08:00] to answer it.
[01:08:01] >> Okay.
[01:08:01] >> I've made it very clear that in the past
[01:08:03] there was a certain methodology of
[01:08:05] describing people that everybody
[01:08:07] understood. I respect those people and
[01:08:08] their terminology. And when they say it,
[01:08:10] I'm not going to jump up and scream that
[01:08:12] we don't use those terms, right? What I
[01:08:14] will say is that listen, I get what
[01:08:16] you're saying
[01:08:17] >> and so I can affirm it in the sense of
[01:08:18] like I know what you mean. Yeah.
[01:08:20] >> To be perfectly honest, Islam is super
[01:08:22] against idolatry as you know. And when
[01:08:24] somebody says, "God is my rock," I'm not
[01:08:26] going to freak out and say, "How dare
[01:08:28] you?" Because I know what he's saying.
[01:08:29] >> Yeah.
[01:08:30] >> But God is definitely not a rock.
[01:08:31] >> Yeah.
[01:08:32] >> That's it. This This has been an hour of
[01:08:34] him capitalizing off of that confusion.
[01:08:36] >> Yeah.
[01:08:36] >> It's super redundant. Go ahead.
[01:08:38] >> I want to talk about what you brought
[01:08:40] up. You brought up Mark 12:29. Do you
[01:08:42] think that this is a verse that proves
[01:08:43] he's a Muslim?
[01:08:44] >> Mark what?
[01:08:44] >> Mark 12:29 where he says, "The hero is
[01:08:46] the Lord our God, the Lord is one."
[01:08:48] >> I believe that this is Jesus. This is a
[01:08:50] verse. Again, let me be very clear so
[01:08:52] that we don't put me in some weird
[01:08:54] position here. I'm very clear about
[01:08:55] this.
[01:08:56] >> Okay?
[01:08:56] >> I don't affirm every verse in the Bible
[01:08:59] and say, "I believe 100% this is what he
[01:09:01] said." But broadly speaking, when you
[01:09:03] see him, for example, preaching just
[01:09:04] like a Jew, Jewish prophet would, like a
[01:09:06] prophet of God would, teaching people
[01:09:09] that God is one, then I'm like, "Yeah,
[01:09:11] this is most likely correct."
[01:09:12] >> Where do you get the historical Jesus
[01:09:13] from? The historical Jesus is people try
[01:09:16] to put it together with like the gospel
[01:09:17] of Q and they try to say okay let's try
[01:09:19] to see uh what is the earliest sources
[01:09:21] and so they try to see what is
[01:09:23] corroborated uh between uh Matthew and
[01:09:25] Luke and they try to say well this is as
[01:09:27] close as we can get to the historical
[01:09:28] Jesus. It's not 100% but we do our best.
[01:09:29] >> Got you. So the gospel accounts is where
[01:09:31] you get the historical Jesus from.
[01:09:32] >> We're trying our best. Yeah. We get we
[01:09:34] we get what we Yeah. Yeah.
[01:09:35] >> Okay. So so if I wanted to learn like so
[01:09:37] for example uh what did how how did
[01:09:38] Jesus pray? Where would I go?
[01:09:40] Um, yeah, you would look if you're a
[01:09:42] Muslim, you would look how Muslims pray
[01:09:44] and you say, "Well, Jesus was a Muslim,
[01:09:45] so therefore he must have prayed similar
[01:09:47] to this."
[01:09:47] >> Where do you where would you get that
[01:09:49] conclusion though? Because that's
[01:09:50] begging the question.
[01:09:51] >> I'm saying if you're a Muslim,
[01:09:53] >> but how would you like see I know that
[01:09:55] like if you're a Muslim, you'll conclude
[01:09:56] that. But based on what is what I'm
[01:09:58] asking like
[01:09:58] >> based on the Quran, if you're a Muslim,
[01:09:59] if if you believe in the Quran as as
[01:10:01] authoritative text, you believe as a
[01:10:02] Muslim and then you therefore you see
[01:10:03] how the Quran defines prayer and then
[01:10:05] you say, "Okay, well this is was what he
[01:10:07] must have done as a prophet."
[01:10:08] >> Why? Where does the Quran say that
[01:10:10] that's how Jesus prayed or
[01:10:12] >> you don't have to say you don't have to
[01:10:13] say for each prophet mentioned and this
[01:10:16] is how he prayed. No, you can just
[01:10:17] describe how Muslims pray and then you
[01:10:19] get the conclusion of that's how every
[01:10:20] prophet prayed roughly speaking
[01:10:22] generally speaking.
[01:10:22] >> Roughly speaking and generally speaking.
[01:10:24] >> So I'm not I'm not talking about like
[01:10:25] exactly the position of you have to
[01:10:26] record like this and like this. But
[01:10:27] generally to God so you wouldn't know.
[01:10:31] You'll just assume that
[01:10:32] >> I would say that as a Muslim, if I know
[01:10:34] how Muslims pray and prophets of the
[01:10:36] past were prophets, then clearly they
[01:10:40] were in line with Islam.
[01:10:41] >> How do you know that that how they
[01:10:42] prayed though was exactly how you pray
[01:10:44] today?
[01:10:45] >> Because they were Muslim and therefore
[01:10:47] I'm not saying exactly. So you're
[01:10:48] jumping on the word exactly. Let's drop
[01:10:50] that word. I believe they prayed to one
[01:10:52] God and weren't gods. How how if you
[01:10:55] wanted to know how they prayed like how
[01:10:56] they practice the prayers practicing
[01:10:58] your religion it's extremely important
[01:11:00] in Islam.
[01:11:00] >> Allah in the Quran describes and sujud
[01:11:02] bowing prostrating things like this.
[01:11:03] >> Yeah. But how do you know that that's
[01:11:04] how Jesus prayed?
[01:11:05] >> Because he's described as a prophet.
[01:11:07] >> So what?
[01:11:07] >> So he's a Muslim.
[01:11:08] >> That doesn't mean that all the prophets
[01:11:09] prayed the same way in in your Sharia.
[01:11:10] >> Generally speaking, this is this is how
[01:11:12] they worshiped.
[01:11:12] >> So that's an that's an assumption. How
[01:11:15] would how would you ground it in fact?
[01:11:16] How if you wanted to get the historical
[01:11:18] method on how Jesus practiced his
[01:11:19] religion? I do not believe we have
[01:11:21] access to a man 5,000 uh sorry to 2,000
[01:11:23] years ago nor uh what's it called I
[01:11:24] don't I don't believe we have access to
[01:11:26] uh uh we can see exactly what Moses was
[01:11:28] doing or what Abraham was doing these
[01:11:30] this is we have
[01:11:30] >> Jesus specifically
[01:11:32] >> what I'm saying is we have faith we have
[01:11:33] faith in these books now you can have
[01:11:35] faith in the Quran which you don't you
[01:11:37] can have faith in the Bible to which my
[01:11:38] conclusion is there are lots of
[01:11:40] parallels that if you accept Islam so
[01:11:44] much of the Quran so much of the Bible
[01:11:46] will make sense to you because of the
[01:11:48] parallels with how he prayed. So is that
[01:11:50] where I will get the historicity of how
[01:11:52] Jesus practiced his religion in the
[01:11:53] Bible?
[01:11:54] >> You will get the closest account you can
[01:11:56] get to the actual history. Yes. Yes.
[01:11:59] >> So, so it's not the Quran that gives us
[01:12:01] the historical Jesus. It's the Bible
[01:12:02] that gives us the historical Jesus. So
[01:12:04] then when I look in the Bible and I see
[01:12:06] what Jesus taught, let's say how he
[01:12:08] prayed, for example, and he prayed, one
[01:12:10] of the ways he prayed was falling down
[01:12:11] on his ground saying, "Father, if it's
[01:12:14] possible, let me let this cup pass for
[01:12:15] me, but not my will that your will be
[01:12:16] done." Yeah.
[01:12:17] >> Or looking up just standing up looking
[01:12:19] lifting up his eyes to heaven saying,
[01:12:20] "Father, glorify me, your son, with the
[01:12:23] glor glorify your son, so that your son
[01:12:25] may glorify you." I'm seeing how Jesus
[01:12:27] prayed. You are you're affirming that
[01:12:29] these are this is these are the this is
[01:12:31] the closest we can get to the historical
[01:12:33] account of how Jesus prayed.
[01:12:34] >> Yes. And because of the because of what
[01:12:35] you just said, if I'm going to conclude,
[01:12:38] was this a god or was this a prophet?
[01:12:40] I'm definitely going to fall on the
[01:12:41] side. Now, I I knew you're going to
[01:12:42] interrupt. That's great.
[01:12:43] >> I didn't add That's not the topic.
[01:12:45] >> That is the topic. Is he a Muslim or is
[01:12:46] he a Christian?
[01:12:47] >> You just you didn't say that. You said
[01:12:48] is he a god or is he just a prophet?
[01:12:50] >> If he's if we believe in are you really
[01:12:53] if we believe in Christianity then he's
[01:12:54] God praying to God.
[01:12:55] >> We're not talking about his deity. We're
[01:12:57] talking about his religion.
[01:12:59] >> I know you want to focus on like like my
[01:13:01] hand in prayer. You want to focus on the
[01:13:03] the position the movement or the idea
[01:13:05] that he's actually praying to God saying
[01:13:07] not my not my will but your will versus
[01:13:10] the idea of them having one will. So
[01:13:12] yeah go ahead. You want to say look when
[01:13:14] you guys pray you look down. When Jesus
[01:13:15] prayed, he looked up. I got You're going
[01:13:17] to make a big thing about that. Despite
[01:13:19] the fact that there's two wills going
[01:13:20] on.
[01:13:20] >> No. No. The what I'm making what I'm in
[01:13:22] the safer position.
[01:13:23] >> What I'm making a big deal of is who he
[01:13:25] prayed to. You would agree that it
[01:13:27] matters who and I and I need this quick.
[01:13:30] I don't need a diet tribe. You would
[01:13:32] agree yes or no that it matters who you
[01:13:35] prayed to. Correct.
[01:13:36] >> The same the same the Jews prayed to.
[01:13:38] >> Okay. Good.
[01:13:38] >> So it matters who you prayed to.
[01:13:40] >> Yeah. The Jewish guy. So can a Muslim
[01:13:43] look lift their eyes to heaven and say,
[01:13:45] "Father, glorify your son so that your
[01:13:48] son may glorify you." Can a Muslim say
[01:13:50] that?
[01:13:52] >> Okay, sure. I'll answer. I'll answer for
[01:13:54] the 50th time.
[01:13:55] >> Because of the fact that the Jews use
[01:13:58] that terminology, but you guys messed it
[01:14:00] up. We don't use that description
[01:14:01] anymore.
[01:14:02] >> That's not what I asked. You You said
[01:14:04] you No. No. You just said, "Does a
[01:14:05] Muslim do that today?" No, we don't.
[01:14:07] >> That's not what I asked. I'll say it
[01:14:08] again. Can a Muslim
[01:14:10] >> Muslim today
[01:14:11] >> at any point in time
[01:14:13] >> at the time of Jesus
[01:14:14] >> lift their eyes up to heaven and say
[01:14:15] father glorify your son so that your son
[01:14:19] may glorify you
[01:14:20] >> at the time of the Jews talking about
[01:14:22] father and son and praying to God is
[01:14:23] fine yes
[01:14:24] >> awesome all right I rest my case okay
[01:14:27] >> at the time of the Jews Jews
[01:14:29] >> and you got it brother
[01:14:30] >> you think you won that
[01:14:31] >> I don't think I won anything I don't
[01:14:33] think I won anything
[01:14:34] >> Jewish theology are you are you you're
[01:14:36] tracking this
[01:14:36] >> you're saying that that's Muslim
[01:14:37] theology
[01:14:38] >> I'm saying Jewish theology that calls
[01:14:40] themselves son and God father.
[01:14:42] >> You said that you're saying that matches
[01:14:43] with Muslim theology.
[01:14:44] >> Yes. Yes.
[01:14:45] >> Okay, we're good.
[01:14:46] >> Okay.
[01:14:46] >> I would say that yes, that figurative
[01:14:48] language
[01:14:49] >> because because they know that because
[01:14:50] they know exactly what they're saying
[01:14:51] because they know exactly their culture.
[01:14:53] It matches with the concept that God is
[01:14:54] one and not actually making babies
[01:14:56] >> and a father and has and has children.
[01:14:58] >> Got it.
[01:14:58] >> Yeah. Children plural.
[01:15:00] >> Yeah.
[01:15:00] >> Perfect. As long as he plur pluralizes
[01:15:02] it to to ensure that we're not talking
[01:15:04] about a divine being. You're absolutely
[01:15:06] right. Jesus is not divine. Thank you
[01:15:07] for affirming that. Just really quick,
[01:15:08] you
[01:15:08] >> you heard him say that, right? He said,
[01:15:10] "As long as you're praying and he has
[01:15:11] children, plural, not the one, not the
[01:15:14] only son." So, he just said, "As long as
[01:15:15] you're praying to a God that has
[01:15:16] children, you guys don't believe that."
[01:15:18] That, my friend, is a slip up.
[01:15:20] >> Okay. Okay. Can Can a Muslim uh tell
[01:15:23] Allah to glorify them so that they all
[01:15:25] glorify Allah?
[01:15:26] >> Uh again, I don't affirm the wording of
[01:15:28] every word. Now, is it possible that God
[01:15:30] is saying that allow uh you know, give
[01:15:33] me a high status?
[01:15:35] >> No. And not high status.
[01:15:36] >> Yes. Can a Muslim, what's the word for
[01:15:38] glory? At any point in time,
[01:15:39] >> what's the word for glory in in Greek?
[01:15:41] Is it
[01:15:41] >> Hold on a second. Can any Muslim at any
[01:15:44] point in time tell Allah to glorify them
[01:15:47] so that they may glorify Allah in
[01:15:48] return?
[01:15:49] >> I just want to know what the word means.
[01:15:50] >> Can you answer that question?
[01:15:51] >> I'm answering you. If we're talking
[01:15:52] about the word doza, which is the Greek
[01:15:55] term, is it a pro? You seem upset that
[01:15:57] I'm actually quoting the Bible.
[01:15:59] >> I I want an answer to my question. You
[01:16:01] can go ahead and do your thing.
[01:16:02] If you mean that I want to be somebody
[01:16:05] who is glorified in the sense of
[01:16:07] worship, no glorified in the sense of
[01:16:10] being a noble prophet.
[01:16:12] >> Mhm.
[01:16:13] >> Then of course there's nothing wrong
[01:16:14] with that because we know that obviously
[01:16:16] the prophet Muhammad Ahmed the most
[01:16:18] praised one and also uh even Ibrahimam I
[01:16:20] don't have the verse off the top of my
[01:16:22] head but he says let me be remembered uh
[01:16:25] let me be let my name be remembered.
[01:16:26] Yeah. In later times. So this is talking
[01:16:28] about being somebody who is known
[01:16:30] through history not for any sort of
[01:16:32] pagan or idolatrous ideas of being a god
[01:16:34] or hypoasis or anything like this but
[01:16:36] rather being a prophet that is
[01:16:37] remembered setting a good example so
[01:16:39] people he can get that.
[01:16:40] >> Okay. And then last one.
[01:16:41] >> Can you can you affirm because the next
[01:16:42] verse the next line says you have given
[01:16:45] him authority over all flesh to give
[01:16:47] eternal life to all you have given him.
[01:16:49] Can a Muslim claim at any point in time
[01:16:51] that Allah has given them authority over
[01:16:53] all mankind, over all flesh, over all
[01:16:55] creation to give eternal life to them?
[01:16:57] >> Perfect. Thank you. Now, can I answer
[01:16:59] >> please? It's a simple yes or no and
[01:17:01] expound if you can.
[01:17:02] >> Thank you. I will. So, no. I do not
[01:17:04] believe that God is going to give all
[01:17:07] authority to a man. Now,
[01:17:10] >> someone asked,
[01:17:11] >> didn't you just ask that all?
[01:17:12] >> I didn't ask if you believe that God is
[01:17:13] going to do this. I asked, let me let me
[01:17:16] be clear with my question again.
[01:17:18] Can a Muslim at any point in the time of
[01:17:22] creation of history
[01:17:24] claim that all Allah gave them all
[01:17:28] authority over all flesh to give them
[01:17:30] eternal life?
[01:17:31] >> No.
[01:17:32] >> Thank you.
[01:17:32] >> Now, can I answer?
[01:17:32] >> So, Jesus is not a Muslim.
[01:17:34] >> Now, can I answer?
[01:17:35] >> You just did it. Jesus not.
[01:17:36] >> You really don't want me to talk, do
[01:17:37] you?
[01:17:38] >> Just expand, please.
[01:17:38] >> Go ahead, expand.
[01:17:39] >> Thank you for letting me. He doesn't
[01:17:40] want me to.
[01:17:41] >> I understand.
[01:17:42] >> If Jesus is God, can he be given all
[01:17:44] authority if he is God? You want me to
[01:17:47] answer that or are you going on another
[01:17:48] point?
[01:17:50] >> I asked a question. I asked
[01:17:51] >> Okay, sure. I don't keep interrupting.
[01:17:52] >> Absolutely. So, we're talking about the
[01:17:53] deity of Christ again, but I'll answer
[01:17:55] you. Uh, yes, Jesus can be given
[01:17:57] authority because he humbled himself,
[01:17:59] came down, took on flesh, handled his
[01:18:01] business on earth, and is now as the
[01:18:03] humble servant of of the father being
[01:18:05] exalted back to that position. Which is
[01:18:07] why in verse five of the verses that I'm
[01:18:08] talking about, he says, "Now, Father,
[01:18:10] glorify you. glorify me with the glory
[01:18:13] that I had with you before the world
[01:18:16] existed so he can humble himself and set
[01:18:18] his divine prerogatives aside for a
[01:18:20] second, do his job and then receive it
[01:18:22] back and inherit it back.
[01:18:23] >> So he's a lesser god for a moment.
[01:18:24] >> Even all No, would you say that Allah is
[01:18:26] a lesser god cuz he's the best of
[01:18:27] inheritors?
[01:18:28] >> What the heck? I know. What the heck?
[01:18:30] >> What the heck? Listen, man. We're
[01:18:32] talking about You don't have to keep
[01:18:33] changing the subject.
[01:18:34] >> You
[01:18:36] crazy,
[01:18:37] >> man. This guy has to posture. He has to
[01:18:40] posture like he's winning. Listen, man.
[01:18:41] It's great. I'm sure you have to remind
[01:18:43] everybody just how much you're winning.
[01:18:44] Don't worry, they're reminded. They
[01:18:45] know.
[01:18:46] >> Yeah, cuz you keep reminding. They'll
[01:18:47] beg you.
[01:18:47] >> Yeah. Fantastic. See, look at that. He
[01:18:49] has to have the last word. He has to
[01:18:50] have a quick little, you know, I mean,
[01:18:51] is this about religion or is this about
[01:18:52] you?
[01:18:54] >> Just make it a little less just a little
[01:18:55] less about you. So if Jesus if the scene
[01:19:00] is Jesus praying to God and then your
[01:19:03] conclusion is that he's being given all
[01:19:07] authority then a the fact that he's
[01:19:09] praying is much more in line with Islam
[01:19:11] because gods don't pray to God.
[01:19:13] >> Allah prays.
[01:19:14] >> That's false and you know it. That's
[01:19:16] such a that's such a weak interruption.
[01:19:18] Like if you're going to interrupt at
[01:19:19] least do a good job.
[01:19:19] >> Chapter two.
[01:19:20] >> Yeah. Good job. So anyway, number one.
[01:19:23] Number two. If he's given all authority,
[01:19:25] then he's not God. Unless he's a lesser
[01:19:28] God, but you're gonna play this game of
[01:19:30] like, well, he gave up his authority, so
[01:19:31] he wasn't fully God. Well, he gave it
[01:19:33] up, but he still had it. What the heck
[01:19:34] are you talking about, man?
[01:19:35] >> Allah is the best of inheritors. He
[01:19:37] gives it up and then But I guess he
[01:19:38] still had it, huh? Because he's also the
[01:19:39] owner of all things, but also the
[01:19:41] inheritor, which means he's given
[01:19:42] something.
[01:19:44] >> Is that really You really think that the
[01:19:46] fact that everything that dies is going
[01:19:48] to go back and to be judged by God
[01:19:50] Almighty? You think he lost something?
[01:19:51] >> Does he own it? If he owns it, if he
[01:19:54] owns it, then how's he inheriting it?
[01:19:55] >> This is the weakest argument I've ever
[01:19:56] heard.
[01:19:57] >> Saying it's weak is not a reputation.
[01:19:58] >> So you're telling me and all of your
[01:20:00] little theatrics aren't a reputation
[01:20:02] either. Take it easy, man. Take it easy.
[01:20:04] So anyway, what I'm trying to say is
[01:20:06] that God inheriting as in everything
[01:20:08] goes back to God. This is confusing for
[01:20:11] you?
[01:20:11] >> No, it's not.
[01:20:12] >> So So you're telling me, wait, wait. Do
[01:20:14] you believe that God is all powerful?
[01:20:16] >> Yes.
[01:20:16] >> Does he inherit does everything does
[01:20:18] everything go back to God on judgment
[01:20:19] day? So does he inherit? So is he weaker
[01:20:21] then? Do you not see how this can be
[01:20:22] applied to you?
[01:20:23] >> So, no. What are you arguing against
[01:20:26] Christianity?
[01:20:26] >> This is what you This is what you don't
[01:20:28] even understand. You don't even know
[01:20:28] what's happening.
[01:20:29] >> You're bringing up arguments where Jesus
[01:20:32] is inheriting authority from the father,
[01:20:34] being given things, receiving things. I
[01:20:36] didn't know God's and you're using you
[01:20:38] notice what he just said. I didn't know
[01:20:39] God's inherit anything. Your Quran
[01:20:41] literally says this is one of his names.
[01:20:43] He's the best of inheritors.
[01:20:44] >> That doesn't mean he lost anything.
[01:20:46] >> So, but you just said you didn't know
[01:20:47] God's inherit anything.
[01:20:48] >> Not power. So, now is Allah not God.
[01:20:51] Goodness gracious. Are you joking?
[01:20:52] >> Is Allah not God inherit?
[01:20:53] >> Do you think you just said he puts aside
[01:20:55] his divinity?
[01:20:56] >> No, I didn't. I said divine prophet.
[01:20:58] >> I'm not talking about the world and
[01:20:59] worldly things and matters inherit.
[01:21:03] >> You're joking.
[01:21:03] >> Does Allah inherit? Yes or no?
[01:21:05] >> So, let me explain this to you
[01:21:06] theologically. No problem. If this this
[01:21:08] is your this is your line of logic. Wow.
[01:21:10] Great. When Allah subh says that he is
[01:21:13] that he is the one who everything goes
[01:21:15] back to you have to interrupt. You can't
[01:21:17] handle it.
[01:21:18] >> What does it mean? What is what's the
[01:21:19] word? It means it means to it. Listen,
[01:21:21] let me explain.
[01:21:22] >> It means inherent.
[01:21:22] >> It doesn't mean inherit divinity. Are
[01:21:24] you joking?
[01:21:25] >> I didn't say that.
[01:21:26] >> Guys, please tell me nobody's convinced
[01:21:28] by this terrible argument. Okay, let me
[01:21:30] explain it very clearly.
[01:21:31] >> When God Almighty is saying that
[01:21:34] everything that happens in this world,
[01:21:35] all the wealth and all the riches and
[01:21:36] all all that, look, at the end of the
[01:21:38] day, you're all going to come back to me
[01:21:39] and you'll all be judged by me. This
[01:21:40] doesn't mean that he was weak. This
[01:21:41] doesn't mean that his that his divinity
[01:21:43] was lost or that he put aside his
[01:21:45] divinity. He's talking he's just this is
[01:21:47] equivocation. He's just taking the word
[01:21:48] inherit and saying got your moment.
[01:21:50] That's not serious. We're God never
[01:21:53] loses his power. God never loses
[01:21:55] authority over anything. Obviously,
[01:21:57] >> neither did Jesus.
[01:21:59] >> So, but on judgment day when everything
[01:22:01] goes back to him and he judges everyone.
[01:22:03] This is every God inheriting everything.
[01:22:05] Not like, "Oh my god, I lost something."
[01:22:06] >> Good. So, they're saying you got the
[01:22:08] word inherit. Correct. My point is that
[01:22:10] he's talking about Jesus
[01:22:12] >> actually being a deity who does not have
[01:22:15] his divinity.
[01:22:16] >> No. No. So, but so he inherits
[01:22:18] authority. So, notice
[01:22:19] >> I'm not inheriting I'm not talking about
[01:22:20] inheriting like wealth and the world and
[01:22:22] things like that. You're talking about
[01:22:23] inheriting what authority.
[01:22:25] >> Is Jesus a Muslim? Just on that specific
[01:22:28] topic, can we do closing statements?
[01:22:29] >> Yes, sure. Go ahead.
[01:22:31] >> Okay.
[01:22:31] >> Thank you, brother.
[01:22:32] >> Um, so I I I'll be pretty quick. So,
[01:22:36] what we saw was that um to be a Muslim
[01:22:41] um is something specific. It's to
[01:22:44] believe specifically in the God of
[01:22:45] Islam. the God that Muhammad propagates.
[01:22:48] The God that the hadith propagate. Um,
[01:22:50] one who is not a father in any way,
[01:22:52] shape, or form. One who doesn't begin
[01:22:54] nor is begotten. One who is unlike his
[01:22:57] creation. One who is not multi-personal.
[01:23:00] One who is not a statute or anything
[01:23:01] like that. This is the God that Muslims
[01:23:03] are talking about when they say that
[01:23:05] that that you're a Muslim. But then the
[01:23:08] problem is is they try to apply this to
[01:23:10] Jesus. The issue is when we get to
[01:23:12] Jesus, we see that Jesus affirms that
[01:23:14] God is multi-personal. He affirms that
[01:23:17] he is the son of God who gives eternal
[01:23:18] life and has authority over all flesh,
[01:23:21] which according to Dr. Nasser, you
[01:23:23] cannot be a Muslim and say. So Dr.
[01:23:25] Nasser while affirming that the Bible is
[01:23:29] where we get closest to the historical
[01:23:31] Jesus according to the most historical
[01:23:33] account of Jesus that we have. Jesus
[01:23:35] affirms that he's the divine son of God
[01:23:37] who he has who has uh the ability to
[01:23:39] give eternal life has authority over all
[01:23:41] flesh and by his own words cannot be a
[01:23:43] Muslim by claiming such things. So what
[01:23:46] we saw Jesus is not a Muslim. It's
[01:23:49] impossible to prove that. It's
[01:23:50] impossible to demonstrate that. Muslims,
[01:23:52] you have to start thinking about this
[01:23:53] more deeply. And notice that you're
[01:23:56] going to have to change your religion in
[01:23:58] order to try to apply the term Muslim to
[01:24:01] Jesus because once you do that, you're
[01:24:03] now going to flip-flop on the on your
[01:24:06] Aka. You're going to flip-flop on what
[01:24:08] you believe about Allah. You're going to
[01:24:09] ascribe to him names that are that that
[01:24:11] that that he never ascribed for himself,
[01:24:13] which in chapter 7, it says to avoid
[01:24:16] those who deviate from their from his
[01:24:18] names. Chapter 7 verse 180. Do not
[01:24:20] deviate from the names of Allah. Do not
[01:24:22] commit bida and innovation by trying to
[01:24:24] say Jesus is a Muslim because it will
[01:24:26] collapse.
[01:24:27] >> Okay. Closing statement, please.
[01:24:29] >> Sure. Uh, unfortunately, I was hoping
[01:24:32] this would move past one topic.
[01:24:34] Very odd to me that it just stuck with
[01:24:37] this one word, father, which for some
[01:24:39] reason you guys fully asserted and
[01:24:41] completely agree can be figurative and
[01:24:44] therefore has a meaning of creator and
[01:24:46] the one that is loving and caring and so
[01:24:47] forth. And then every single time I
[01:24:50] asserted that, you just want to usher in
[01:24:51] and say, "So he is a father and that is
[01:24:53] a theological statement and therefore we
[01:24:55] can add in all this theology." And so
[01:24:57] every time I actually expounded on it,
[01:24:59] he wanted to be like, "Just give me a
[01:25:01] yes or no." This went in a direction
[01:25:03] that I was not expecting. But now that
[01:25:05] you have ushered in your actual point,
[01:25:08] which is that you have to assert that
[01:25:10] Jesus is a, you know, that the God is
[01:25:12] multi-personal and that Jesus is God.
[01:25:15] That's actually what I want to talk to
[01:25:16] you about, which I had lots of verses
[01:25:17] for, you never let me get around to it.
[01:25:19] My point is simple. If you go through
[01:25:21] the Bible and you see over and over
[01:25:24] again verses that clearly demonstrate
[01:25:27] that Jesus is not God and if that
[01:25:28] theology makes absolutely no sense to
[01:25:30] you as it shouldn't because it doesn't
[01:25:31] work which I wish we could have talked
[01:25:33] about a little bit more then you guys
[01:25:34] would have concluded you would come to
[01:25:36] the simple conclusion that obviously if
[01:25:38] he's not God if he's worshiping God if
[01:25:40] he sleeps and God doesn't sleep if he
[01:25:43] dies and God doesn't die if he has weak
[01:25:45] if if a thousand other things if he
[01:25:46] grows in wisdom and God doesn't grow in
[01:25:48] wisdom then maybe when he calls himself
[01:25:50] a prophet. He is a prophet. And when you
[01:25:52] see the parallels between him being a
[01:25:54] man and a prophet, you see the Jewish
[01:25:56] prophets had a similar storyline. And
[01:25:59] you see the prophet Muhammad has an
[01:26:00] extremely similar storyline. I know he
[01:26:02] wants to focus on oh but he looked up
[01:26:04] when he prayed instead of focusing on
[01:26:06] the fact that he prayed to God like
[01:26:09] complete mismatch of what to focus on. I
[01:26:12] would say clearly you're going to come
[01:26:13] to the conclusion that the historical
[01:26:15] Jesus when you take a look at the
[01:26:17] earlier texts you see that there's less
[01:26:20] christologology. So therefore the closer
[01:26:23] you get to Jesus the more you realize he
[01:26:25] was a prophet as was concluded by the
[01:26:28] people who were listening in Matthew 21
[01:26:30] as you mentioned. And so therefore, if
[01:26:32] he's a prophet of God and if he worships
[01:26:35] God, then I think it's fair to say that
[01:26:38] he is in line with Islamic prophets,
[01:26:41] Muslim, the Muslim concept of who Jesus
[01:26:43] was. I would highly urge you to learn
[01:26:45] about Islam and inshallah, God willing,
[01:26:47] you will be guided to the faith of
[01:26:48] Islam. Take care.
[01:26:49] >> That was awesome, guys. That was Yeah,
[01:26:51] it was fun. That was good.