# CDG Master Class with  Deborah L. Scott

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzo22u0pSTY

[00:01] foreign.
[00:07] Scott.
[00:25] um, thank you so much for coming guys.
[00:30] It's so great to see everybody.
[00:31] And if I don't know you, please introduce yourself.
[00:33] And if I do know you, please come say hello and remind you we haven't seen each other.
[00:37] And so and nobody's wearing a mask because it's even better.
[00:39] So Deborah and I go way back.
[00:41] We were children 25 years ago and they let teenagers work on films.
[00:47] Yeah.
[00:48] Um, and it was great.
[00:51] And um, Deborah foolishly hired me to run the work rooms in Mexico City.
[00:53] So we had Dale, the great Dale Women, and Karen Nasser running the work room.
[00:58] And I was in Mexico City doing alterations and building little bits in.
[01:03] that so you know yes we we um it's sort of odd to see all of you know the Titanic clothes here now and and again her amazing stuff from uh Avatar but you know we're really here to talk about you know Deborah's career because she's our honoree tomorrow at the custom designers Guild.
[01:19] thank you so um you know Deborah your career in costume design is so impressive and buried you've designed costumes from some very iconic films one of your first ones was ET.
[01:30] your resume includes Hoffa Legends of the Fall Titanic Patriot Minority Report Transformers the first and second avatar The Amazing Spider-Man and you even worked with Madonna on who's that girl.
[01:41] it was a long long time ago.
[01:43] do you have a favorite genre favorite costume genre.
[01:47] I do not I do not and the reason I don't is because I think it it I mean everyone loves doing period work I'm pretty sure like it's it's really fun to you know visit that research and do that that whole thing but I think the most the funnest part is getting gifted an
[02:04] incredible character whether it's you know shorts and a t-shirt or something glamorous gown it's you know trying to find that that note that that makes it just right.
[02:16] yeah I think the people think of custom design is like you know Marie Antoinette but putting somebody in t-shirt and jeans is still character design.
[02:22] so what was your education like what did you study?
[02:25] I went to college for a theater design so I worked in the theater and I for a while I thought I would be a you know I was like oh I could go to Broadway it'd be so fun but I think I was so drawn to making movies ever since I was a little girl and it was kind of just a lucky easy transition and once I started I got I was hooked as I'm sure all of you are.
[02:49] so you know you can't let it go show the business we call show my friend used to say it found you so how did you get your start in the film business?
[02:57] well let's see.
[03:00] I actually one of the first things I did which got me into 705 is I worked with
[03:05] Betsy Potter on on some television shows that she did you know the like so that was kind of fun but I think my my real big start was.
[03:14] I A friend of mine Charlie Martin Smith who's an actor was working on a film called Never Cry Wolf in Alaska and we had gone to college together and we had done a lot of plays together and you know knew each other quite well and they were the director's wife was kind of handling the very few costumes in the movie and it wasn't working out exactly how they wanted it so they said you know he suggested me and I got a call I'm like can you come to Alaska tomorrow and I'm like what yeah sure so jumped on a plane took a couple of small planes and I had no idea what I was getting into I arrived on the tarmac on in a little you know six-seater plane or something wearing my Laura Ashley blouse and my Blazer and carrying my sewing machine it's like so I was I was the one and only member of that costume Department which was challenging so you.
[04:07] had never worked on a film before it was the first time on set and you were the costume Center that doesn't happen anymore.
[04:12] well if you're the one and only person you have to right and if the script supervisor didn't feel well I did that or helped to help do the makeup you know it's like those are the those are the ways we could start back then and I don't know how it is now right it was it was easier to sort of get in and just do just do it yeah I mean yeah we it's it's interesting though because now everything is sort of Union and when I got in the business a long time ago um you know films would turn so I mean I was on right on Stargate and it turned Union um I was on Barbara and it turned you and so I got in the guild so I mean these experiences where you get to do everything right I think is the best learning experience because you get you learn from actually doing it yeah you're forced to you have to turn it or you're at you know you would be sound and I love that you know you just there was no you didn't know were right or wrong and unfortunately you had nobody to talk to because you were there by yourself so I I think that really tells a lot about who you are as a person that you just figured it out yeah I think that's that's what we do right we're always in
[05:09] situations where you can't be intimidated and you just say well here's the challenge we're going to figure it out and that's that's lifelong on every every single film I think and I think in figuring out this goes to my next question.
[05:20] um I when I worked with the Titanic I was so impressed with the way you did research you didn't do whatever it is now as a Google search I don't think there was Google then yeah um but I remember you actually computers right.
[05:30] but I remember you like actually reading etiquette books to talk about the neckline of a woman at that era so it's like your research was very in-depth how do you approach research on your projects.
[05:41] well I think the first thing I do is I in my head I say to myself okay if you were really that person or you were really in that place are you really lived at that time what would you how would you be what would you do how would you find whatever it is that you put on your body and so I kind of just try to teleport into into the character and then start the research however it wherever that leads me so something like Titanic it was obviously very important.
[06:11] the etiquette of what how people behaved was so important and it had dictated.
[06:16] like this is when you wear your gloves.
[06:18] this is when you wear a hat this is when you don't wear your gloves very very very detailed.
[06:21] so it was incredibly good road map on that on that particular film.
[06:27] really really good and you had a long prep because I remember you you had like six months before your career even started.
[06:32] you traveled the world buying vintage pieces.
[06:34] yeah we had I had a couple of people on at the beginning and uh you know my producer John Landau who is very very insightful and I convinced him that we could we should purchase a lot a lot of vintage garments which then we had to remain as you know remake A lot of them because they were in disrepair.
[06:55] but it was an incredible lesson because when you see the real thing and you see like especially in that period the colors were intense because you the photography is black and white.
[07:08] so the color of those things and it inspired the director Jim and it was in
[07:14] a really incredible like it was what you tell me because it was like the the hardest thing was to make the things we made as beautiful and intricate as the things that were real.
[07:24] so if you put them two together in a scene you know you know there's a level and that's the thing is I remember you know one of the first things I did was we realigned suits like do you find these original clothes and the suit was perfect on the outside but the lining to touch the body had fallen apart so you got to see take it apart and then you know who gets to take apart of energy garment to see how they were built inside which then dictated how we built the rest of them but I mean I remember like the dresses you would buy had like a 21 inch waist right what actor today has a 21 choice so we take it apart take it apart and build a new lining and then make it to 26 inch waist which is a little more you know user friendly and no those the silk Linings were all shot like you'd pick you know you see this incredible piece of fabric and they would just like crinkle which just tells you that the things that touched the body did not hold up but I mean it's but it's amazing like even to see you know one of Kate's dresses that she wore for two hours is held up over 25 years well.
[08:14] you were buying dresses that were 80 years old they were still holding up so yeah it's really a lesson in how to preserve costumes yeah
[08:22] um and as far as research I mean now you know obviously we know how you can research Titanic how did you approach coach Avatar I mean what was your what was your inspiration research for Avatar
[08:31] well it was that was an interesting journey because I film I took over for a couple of other designers that had started the project and so I went into this like oh what the what what's this you know what kind of world is this without very really very little knowledge again it was you know the Jim John called and said hey can you come to New Zealand tonight and I'm like sure because you do right if you if someone you know you do you know when those experiences and those opportunities are going to be there for you you don't say no you know you don't say oh my God my winter code is in storage
[09:15] so so we there was the kind of the template of what the world could be.
[09:21] but starting with film two and you know reading the script and they're so protective about the scripts that you couldn't give the scripts to your own crew.
[09:29] so you're saying okay here's what here's the story kinda I can't really tell you but I can tell you little bits and pieces so you know you sort of plopped out in this imaginary world and we um with the new with all the characters had moved on from film one.
[09:45] I wanted it to be a lot more elaborate in a way than film one and we had the technology and the ability to do that.
[09:55] um and and it was really kind of the new clan that met Cayenne we knew we're going to be living on the ocean.
[10:02] so we just started to do Hana my ACD is raise your hand.
[10:09] she said she's a you know and other people she's a master researcher and uh and Beth konisberg who's 705 she's you.
[10:17] know we spent a lot of time doing research looking at every book we could possibly find.
[10:21] the internet is tricky because you know you can't trust it.
[10:27] so but we did a lot of research in in books and we started to look at like okay let cast a really broad net all over the world.
[10:37] doesn't matter what the climate is it doesn't matter as long as they live on or near the water.
[10:42] so we started to look at indigenous peoples everywhere and the first thing you find which is the same thing with the period movie is that there are so many links between cultures that someone in Europe you know is wearing the same hoop skirt as someone in South America.
[10:58] it's like how does this happen even in times when that when when technology and communication isn't so perfect.
[11:04] so we saw we started to see the same things in those kinds of peoples.
[11:12] um which was really fascinating you know body art the fact that I've talked about this a lot how
[11:18] um they they're they usually make their clothes out of what they find in their environment.
[11:22] makes sense right.
[11:23] it's just like the rule book is so clear when you do that research.
[11:27] so Jim we knew that it was going to be a warm climate in the movie so we sort of settled on the sort of Greater Polynesia.
[11:36] um but we we'd research people in India China everywhere Antarctic Arctic you know.
[11:43] so we started to find these commonalities.
[11:46] um and we settled kind of in this this basic area and I think also Jim really was one of his main things was the hair.
[11:51] which luckily I got to design at that point because it was in design phase and we didn't we never had a makeup or hair person for the virtual world only for Live Action.
[12:07] so I got to design the characters from head to toe including the prophecies.
[12:11] people don't realize everything that they had touched is Deborah anything on their body a knife I think you know we had we had the we had we were we were.
[12:18] the only ones there now the production designers were busy doing environments.
[12:22] but no one was all the live action all the masks all the everything all the gear everything.
[12:27] so it was a very complex and going in a lot of different directions but settling down into that Polynesian world and and really focusing on hairstyles which I had two really great artists here in La Christian Cardella one of them here today and Keith Christian's in and we would do we would just do hairstyles on a character and present them to Jim and say you know that's the person.
[12:55] so that was super duper fun because then no one could mess it up.
[12:59] you know know what you just you just you've got to increase you're enjoy a great costume and you have this idea of her hair and then the hair makeup is completely different different world so it's great that you had the the freedom to complete the look including the props which is amazing and I think that we all look at these costumes and you're like oh I recognize that but what I was talking to Denver about they're not on.
[13:18] Earth she didn't find a conch from Earth.
[13:20] She didn't find a bird from Earth.
[13:22] She had to invent the pieces and then design.
[13:26] Within those pieces and I just think that as an artist I'm just thinking about it.
[13:29] I'm overwhelmed.
[13:29] I can't imagine like but you realize that every single piece there is something that she thought of and then made.
[13:34] And can you sort of go through that process?
[13:36] Yeah, it's such an interesting process.
[13:38] And the wonderful part about it is that that process of design, especially if you have enough time, but it doesn't matter if it's two weeks or two years.
[13:49] The process of design is ongoing, right?
[13:51] You don't, once you finally make it, okay, it's made, it's done, but you go on to the next garment.
[14:00] And in a made-up world like this, we had this wonderful team here that and then we moved to New Zealand.
[14:07] And I had an amazing team at WETA Workshop, Flo Foxworthy right there, who runs.
[14:13] And we sort of developed a whole new textile department there and working with a group of.
[14:21] incredible Artisans that you then started to understand your designs by making them.
[14:28] I'm sure they evolves like if you mean you had years to do this so by the time you you're going to like you know start a costume one two years ago and you're doing custom 20 three years later you're like wait I could have done differently.
[14:38] different absolutely but that's always right every time you do a you can do a beautiful ball gun and you can say oh I could have made it purple.
[14:45] you know whatever there's oh there's always that and there's things that you you might be more proud of than others.
[14:51] um and I but I think the techniques and the things that we learned by doing them by designing them and making them was invaluable and ongoing and the fact that then we we've already not a spoiler alert we've already made all the costumes for film three.
[15:08] so which are I think amazing I mean because they're more evolved and you also it's what you've learned over this decade I can imagine what number four is gonna look.
[15:21] like because you're gonna even open more.
[15:23] Yeah, so it was, you know, so it's just an ongoing wonderful experience to be able to do that.
[15:30] And I mean, for instance, the navier are not human proportions.
[15:32] No, but you make your samples and human portions, the bodies can wear them.
[15:36] That's right. And then you were telling me that once this is a sample that the uh that the digital art is copy off of, but then you have to do another version in white for movement that goes in the water.
[15:45] I mean, so you're, I think to understand her design project, it's not just you think, oh, she made that, but there's so many.
[15:51] Can you go through the levels of how you have to get there to make it to camera?
[15:53] It's so complicated and we didn't know anything when we started.
[16:00] I mean, I'm like the lamest person on a computer, so it was a huge learning curve.
[16:04] And I would always have to be like, you know, looking around like, can you help me?
[16:07] So it's really important to have genius people around you like Shea, who is, you know, and and Hannah by people who are really keen on on computer working could explain things to.
[16:21] me but it was it was a quick learning curve.
[16:23] but the whole production was learning no one had done exactly this before.
[16:27] so all the computer programs were being developed at the same.
[16:30] so there was all these it's just it's very very complicated but for us the design process LED right.
[16:36] you still designed the costumes you started with that and I knew that we were going to be able to make each one if it had just been on paper I'm not it would never have looked like this ever never ever.
[16:52] so the process is basically concept art sample and this is just the manufacture part right.
[17:00] so there's a whole computer part beyond this but sample and then we would refined the concept art to look more like the sample because I I dare say that the Artist as brilliant as they were and the constant the concepts that were brilliant from the group of designers here and in New Zealand they're not detailed enough or
[17:23] fine enough to be then in a movie of this technological Wizardry right so the making of the pieces becomes the 3D kind of map that the computer artist can then follow.
[17:38] then there's a sort of interim that which we call what do we call that we call this so many things but the diagram we just you know it's like it had so many stupid names but we developed this process because as we were trying to give the digital artists a road map so they couldn't mess it up right this is sample 1860.
[17:57] here's Sam so they got all the pieces they got all the art they got all you know all the diagrams and said like you better do it like we say so it's different than the production design because the production design is all con almost all concept art right and then they refine it the digital artist can refine it and move things around and you know give you different angles according to the camera.
[18:24] but it was as if they couldn't they couldn't mess it up.
[18:27] they couldn't change it.
[18:30] the only thing they could mess it up.
[18:31] yeah and they did.
[18:33] there's things that you you know I can go back and pick out and go oh we started you know so.
[18:38] but it was it was uh about as foolproof as you could get it.
[18:41] she was explaining the process to me like she they made a sample and they wove it and you take the picture of that to the digital artist.
[18:48] well the digital artist doesn't just draw it.
[18:50] the digital artist has to literally take a line and then weave it in the program.
[18:55] so she's trying to teach sorry nerds how to speak and that.
[18:58] so I'm like I can't even imagine how frustrated because in her mind she's had three years to develop this and now she's you have to explain it to somebody.
[19:09] well you hope that the sample speaks for itself and because the computer technology can read it.
[19:15] but it still has to go through their animation their simulation.
[19:19] and we spent it's a whole it's like all of a sudden now you're on in the fitting.
[19:25] room with the Nerds and digital artists the digital which they were wonderful and they're they're amazing and I I honestly it's it's an incredible art form they're making the bodies of the characters and some of them are actually based quite frankly on our original designs because Jim would see like oh that's that's cool so it informs a lot of people which is so really responsible for all the Americans on the body too wow yeah so they they uh and then we just go through a very very long process of virtual fittings as I call them where they would do sometimes they do a turntable sometimes they didn't because they didn't want to take the time or the money it was incredibly expensive we go where's the turntable like we're not doing that anymore well what are you doing we're gonna put it in a shot it's like what shot can I see you know so there's a lot of that's when it gets incredibly tedious because the fittings go on for months and months and months.
[20:25] and you're saying could you make it
[20:27] longer could you make it shorter it
[20:28] doesn't move right it's not the right
[20:30] color
[20:31] or your director comes in and says I
[20:33] don't like that color which is the
[20:36] easiest thing to change thank God
[20:38] it's like okay what color do you want
[20:40] you know so it's a it's a very
[20:42] interesting and new process and I think
[20:45] it's one that
[20:46] um I very much feel like I would love to
[20:50] thank you for being here because it's an
[20:52] educational thing it's a kind of design
[20:55] it's a kind of movie that is opening a
[20:58] new door it's the future of custom
[21:00] design it's the future of costume design
[21:01] or at least part of costume design right
[21:04] and that there are new jobs more
[21:06] opportunities you know you have a
[21:09] supervisor
[21:11] and and a digital costume design
[21:13] assistant who can stay on the project
[21:15] for months
[21:17] you have a room full of incredible
[21:19] textile artists so if something needs to
[21:22] be changed or altered or put in the pool
[21:24] or put in front of a Ritter fan they can
[21:26] help you so
[21:28] it's just a huge job opportunity that we
[21:31] should not deny ourselves as being
[21:33] actually real absolutely I think that
[21:35] you know there's there's students here
[21:37] today you know when I got into business
[21:39] 37 years ago
[21:41] um I know how to sew and I'm here
[21:42] because I excelled but this next
[21:43] generation of costume designers and
[21:45] Custom Design costume crew you're gonna
[21:48] need to learn the digital part of it
[21:50] because at certain point the digital
[21:52] artists aren't going to be able to
[21:53] understand it so the customers as
[21:55] opposed to being on set working with an
[21:57] actor they're going to be working with
[21:58] Deborah like this is how you weave this
[22:00] everything I think that this is I mean I
[22:02] remember watching Avatar 10 years ago
[22:03] thinking like oh my God this is the
[22:05] future of costume design we're not
[22:06] always going to build it I mean she gets
[22:08] to build one but and also think of like
[22:11] what you've heard how difficult is this
[22:13] to make one costume she does every
[22:16] single extra and they were crowd scenes
[22:18] that's all on our team like it's just I
[22:22] mean how a lot of work sometimes you can
[22:23] limit it down like you if it's something
[22:25] you know you might be able to just do
[22:27] the front or do a really explicit
[22:29] drawing and have a partial sample for
[22:31] the background we sometimes did that
[22:33] because from money and and also then you
[22:36] do all this work and like all these
[22:38] color variations and then the digital
[22:39] people you are like white I see the same
[22:42] guy six times standing next to each
[22:44] other
[22:45] and then you go crazy like can you
[22:47] change this one or you know so but it's
[22:49] it's a it's a very very long process and
[22:51] I think it's one that I like to think
[22:54] that we just you know they could take
[22:56] the designs on paper
[22:58] and Say Goodbye
[23:00] but they they didn't do that for good
[23:03] reason it would look very different they
[23:04] weren't involved very different but the
[23:06] fact that we as costume designers and
[23:08] assistant costume designers and 705
[23:10] people and Artisans deserve a seat at
[23:13] that table that is recognized and
[23:17] admired and validated by your by the
[23:19] artist absolutely
[23:23] and Jim Cameron did did do that John
[23:25] Lando my producer did do that they've
[23:27] they valued the work so it's I mean
[23:31] that's I think we're always fighting for
[23:32] money and time and crew uh how big is
[23:34] your crew and I mean well I mean how big
[23:39] is your team I mean because it takes
[23:40] it's Monumental I mean the small details
[23:42] that have to be worked out yeah well
[23:44] we're doing you're doing you're doing
[23:45] multiple things at once performance
[23:47] capture where you have to make all the
[23:49] performance capture suits what you had
[23:50] to develop and they don't exist ones the
[23:53] water ones didn't exist so when we
[23:55] decided to shoot underwater with
[23:57] performance capture they didn't even
[23:58] have the technology to do it they showed
[24:02] up in our office one day with a string
[24:04] it looked like I gnarled up bunch of
[24:06] Christmas lights here I'm like hear what
[24:09] what do you mean here you know so it was
[24:13] incredibly long Pro it took eight months
[24:15] to get to get the technology inside the
[24:18] proper kind of suit
[24:20] so that each actor and down to putting
[24:23] sensors on toes and fingers could be
[24:26] captured underwater think about that how
[24:28] many times have you had eight days to
[24:30] figure out a costume eight months so
[24:31] before they could film before they could
[24:33] film before we could film so we're doing
[24:35] that we were also preparing live action
[24:36] which was a ton of you know mass and
[24:39] props and helmets and the brilliant team
[24:41] that that from what I was led by Lance
[24:44] Hanson mostly who did that was you know
[24:47] I mean 3D modeling came in super handy I
[24:50] didn't know anything about it I didn't
[24:52] know anything about the materials that
[24:54] you could 3D model
[24:56] um so I would be the what's that you
[24:58] know so you just have to keep learning
[25:00] and and it's important to to do that and
[25:02] it's so invigorating
[25:05] um and we I think with the costumes
[25:06] themselves
[25:08] we do have some things in some of these
[25:10] samples that are 3D printed but we
[25:13] realized very early on the real thing
[25:16] looks like the real thing if you can
[25:19] make it out of the real shell to control
[25:22] reality
[25:23] controlled reality so like this this
[25:26] this neck piece
[25:28] um I mean it went through a bunch of
[25:30] changes and it's important to know that
[25:32] the concept art that we often show isn't
[25:36] the cons isn't the costume that ended up
[25:38] in the Middle East it's not the final
[25:40] piece so it's just like that's true true
[25:43] concept art as opposed to illustrations
[25:44] are done after the custom finish it's
[25:46] concept we revised it down so that the
[25:49] art that we submitted was exactly like
[25:51] the sample right so there's no confusion
[25:54] because when there were when we didn't
[25:55] do that at the beginning there would be
[25:57] great confusion between
[25:59] there's lab artists that work for this
[26:02] it's basically a uh live storyboard
[26:05] right that the gym and the other people
[26:08] are using to to film a virtual camera
[26:10] they'd plop something in there
[26:13] like
[26:14] excuse me and then Jim gets used to
[26:16] seeing it you're like that's not the
[26:18] real costume so you have to be
[26:19] everywhere all the time everywhere
[26:21] Vigilant that they don't mess it up
[26:25] so Jim got what Jim was really good
[26:28] about the fact that he knew that some of
[26:29] these costumes would be placeholders
[26:31] that he was looking at that they were
[26:32] still being made developed and it would
[26:35] change
[26:36] but it was difficult when
[26:39] we had to use stage pieces for
[26:41] performance capture so that if someone
[26:44] was wearing a cape the actor could act
[26:47] with the cape
[26:49] headpieces so that if not even so much
[26:52] that the actress could feel it but that
[26:55] the way the lighting would cast from her
[26:58] headpiece to the person standing next to
[27:00] her
[27:01] and that was very new to me so we kind
[27:04] of messed that up a couple times and got
[27:05] in a bunch of trouble
[27:08] oh well and we carried on it worked out
[27:11] so we were doing that live action and
[27:13] then we were doing all the navi costumes
[27:15] so it was very multi so the question was
[27:17] how many people so the stage crew for
[27:21] the tank and the performance capture was
[27:23] probably maybe up to five people
[27:26] something like that supervisor the the
[27:28] regular supervisor coordinator
[27:30] assistants in the office
[27:33] um the sort of the digital people that
[27:36] helped with all you know because it's a
[27:37] tremendous amount of book work just to
[27:39] make sure that you're supplying
[27:41] everybody with the proper information
[27:43] and the uh I think at what a workshop at
[27:47] the maximum and that includes live
[27:49] action
[27:50] you know Woodworkers I mean everything
[27:53] that you can walk into that place and
[27:55] you say I'd like it to be and they're
[27:57] like let us help you so they're
[27:59] incredible but maybe at the maximum
[28:02] maybe 45 people wow but as we sort of
[28:05] went along we could have really honed it
[28:06] down to um a base group of around six or
[28:09] seven
[28:10] and this was my textiles team that flow
[28:13] ran and then when we as needed we'd say
[28:16] oh we need to really we need to carve
[28:18] something and you'd bring in somebody
[28:20] from the Department of props who could
[28:22] carve
[28:23] and some of these people were absolutely
[28:25] brand new to it a computer artist a guy
[28:28] who did 3D modeling never carved in his
[28:31] life okay and then all of a sudden he's
[28:34] doing and it was the best part about is
[28:36] you didn't have to repeat it
[28:38] no you know you didn't have to carve it
[28:40] exactly a shell exactly the same way
[28:43] each time so you just set these amazing
[28:46] people who can work with their hands
[28:47] loose and then I walked up to him I'm
[28:48] like
[28:49] he was I think he was actually uh
[28:52] carving wood right so he was sort of
[28:54] sculpting like so how did you learn this
[28:57] did your grand would your grandfather
[28:59] teach you how to whittle you know it's
[29:00] like what the and he's like no I just
[29:02] started a couple weeks ago
[29:04] so
[29:05] the thing to find the people that around
[29:08] you that have these amazing talents and
[29:11] they stay quiet
[29:12] right they don't speak up sometimes so
[29:15] you have to and I like this piece went
[29:17] through about three iterations it wasn't
[29:20] really working
[29:22] and we sat down and I brought in all the
[29:26] sculptors you know okay guys
[29:29] what got any ideas what are we gonna
[29:32] make this out of it what's it gonna look
[29:33] like how's it gonna you know so we had
[29:35] to talk it out for me too like I'm
[29:38] willing to take ideas from anybody and
[29:41] then go away and kind of make it work
[29:42] the best idea wins that's right and it's
[29:45] often a combination of ideas because
[29:47] also we're like okay here's a grand
[29:49] thing you can draw but you can't make it
[29:51] but you really can if you really you
[29:53] know it's just and I said you're it's
[29:56] not based off anything on Earth so it
[29:57] doesn't happen you know because you were
[29:58] saying like they would ask you what kind
[29:59] of flowers you're like I don't know a
[30:00] navi flower it doesn't exist but you
[30:02] have to have that person on your crew
[30:05] who can be who is creative who can say
[30:06] okay it's a navi flower and then go from
[30:08] there as opposed to like what is the
[30:09] exact plow I mean right I just as a
[30:12] costume designer we're in charge of all
[30:13] of it it's really like but I can't even
[30:15] imagine the levels that you had to
[30:18] maintain it's also the thing with the
[30:20] the animators and the simulators because
[30:22] they don't have a program that tells
[30:26] them how heavy that is
[30:29] right so we'd have to go through like
[30:31] okay it sits like this it's woven like
[30:34] this when he leans forward when he you
[30:35] know so you if you watch the film really
[30:37] closely there there are times where you
[30:39] can feel the weight that's not by
[30:42] accident
[30:43] that's by a lot of hard work and
[30:45] sometimes you know it's not as refined
[30:47] as you want it to be this one
[30:49] the sample is very beautifully and
[30:53] intricately woven this is one of
[30:54] probably the first pieces that Digi got
[30:57] they never look they never really got it
[31:02] you know they just didn't and there's a
[31:04] point where it has to stop because they
[31:07] got to move on there's time there's
[31:09] money you're under the same constraints
[31:10] as you are on any film
[31:12] so they're like man it's the best we can
[31:14] go and you're like okay you gotta you
[31:16] gotta take it you know and so then you
[31:17] let go you gotta let go but I think as
[31:20] designers you also go there's a moment
[31:22] where you're like
[31:23] should I dumb that down
[31:25] or do I let it go have it not be perfect
[31:29] and this this one was the same way this
[31:31] was a very early early design
[31:33] a very early build we learned a lot from
[31:36] this one
[31:38] um and you know it's not it's not great
[31:41] in here we all think it's great right we
[31:45] all think
[31:47] this is Deborah's eye it could have been
[31:49] better
[31:50] be fixed that um so so you you can fix
[31:53] things to a point
[31:54] and then some things you do have to let
[31:57] go but they don't know what that is the
[32:00] animators and simulators don't know what
[32:02] that is so they and one doesn't exist so
[32:04] she can't say well it's like this right
[32:05] so they get to see it they can touch it
[32:07] if they want to they put it you know so
[32:10] they have to build the programs around
[32:12] the costumes and because these are
[32:14] bespoke one of a kind unique pieces it's
[32:17] a huge challenge for a giant group of
[32:20] people the thousands of people that work
[32:22] at what FX
[32:24] so do you have an estimate of how many
[32:26] custom pieces you built for this movie
[32:28] did we we finally estimated like design
[32:30] not built but designed because you
[32:32] didn't build everything designs we went
[32:34] through probably well I think between
[32:36] the two film two and three over twenty
[32:38] thousand designs on paper
[32:42] so you're constantly revising right like
[32:44] I like that but I don't really know so
[32:46] working with these incredibly good
[32:48] artists who do work in computers but are
[32:51] part of the costume shop so which is
[32:53] important because they don't
[32:55] they don't the I don't know the way it
[32:57] works you get it's like having something
[32:58] on paper isn't really right I mean I
[33:01] almost think that you would want to have
[33:02] your own team of digital artists in the
[33:04] in the costume Department that you can
[33:06] teach and spend the hours with them and
[33:08] then take that to the because even even
[33:09] when you're when you're going to
[33:11] describe it to the heads of the
[33:13] department she's not talking to the
[33:14] person that's gonna do the Techno work
[33:15] you're talking to their boss and that
[33:16] boss has to interpret it so you're going
[33:18] to do even even within the even within
[33:21] wet a workshop the thing that became
[33:23] very apparent was that you know the
[33:25] designers are all in one room drawn away
[33:29] the textile artists are all in another
[33:31] room making stuff and we would have to
[33:34] almost drag them in please come in and
[33:38] see what your and some of them were much
[33:41] more interested in the actual real thing
[33:43] so come in and see what we're working on
[33:47] you know see how it how it looks what
[33:50] the so that you're that you're drawing
[33:52] can be better you have more
[33:54] understanding of what
[33:56] so it's a very involved process with a
[33:59] with a lot of people communicating and
[34:01] on a lot of times with words you know
[34:03] when you're a designer you have to do
[34:04] you have to talk about it with
[34:07] adjectives right with flowy it's willowy
[34:12] that's not quite you know that's not
[34:13] quite substantial enough let's make it a
[34:14] little more airy no what's the area so
[34:18] but I guess that's also where you get to
[34:20] work with the same people over and over
[34:21] again and speaking of that you have long
[34:23] lasting collaborations with directors
[34:24] and producers can you tell us about that
[34:26] process and how it makes your job either
[34:28] better or worse you know James and John
[34:31] for a long time uh I actually met John
[34:34] on on Hoffa he was the studio exec yeah
[34:38] and he came out because it was kind of a
[34:40] financially troubled project and it was
[34:42] a huge undertaking and he came out to
[34:44] sort of be the you know
[34:46] put down lay down the law from the
[34:48] studio but he taught me an important
[34:50] thing which was he what he didn't do was
[34:53] do that what he did do was go around to
[34:56] the entire crew and say what's working
[34:59] what's not working what do you need what
[35:02] can we do better
[35:03] and this open communication that you can
[35:07] that you need to have it was
[35:09] invaluable
[35:10] so the communication between directors
[35:13] and yourselves and you know a lot of
[35:15] directors I'm sure you guys know aren't
[35:17] very communicative
[35:19] or they don't communicate in a way that
[35:21] you know or they just they sort of short
[35:23] circuit I think when even though
[35:25] everyone wears clothes they still kind
[35:27] of like you know they just like short
[35:29] circuit when you start talking about
[35:30] something
[35:31] so
[35:33] the the the hurdle is to gain their
[35:36] trust once you get their trust
[35:39] you can kind of be on your Merry way
[35:40] right which is probably why James gets
[35:42] hiring at this point he's like it's like
[35:45] and then we have this conversation where
[35:46] he'd go he'd look at something and then
[35:49] after a while he stopped he didn't have
[35:51] to see the real garments because he was
[35:54] seeing them his judgment was after the
[35:57] digital work but even when he was first
[35:59] seeing them he would look at it and go
[36:02] that's pretty and then which is a good
[36:05] that's a huge compartment
[36:06] but then his mind would go because he's
[36:09] a scientist he's you know you go how
[36:12] does that work underwater that's that's
[36:13] never going to work underwater okay I'll
[36:16] prove to you it does work underwater we
[36:18] did that on Titanic we got into swimming
[36:20] pools with people and gowns and and once
[36:22] you did that it was like okay fine you
[36:25] can let it look pretty you know
[36:31] full disclosure Hannah is not only the
[36:34] Deborah's assistant but she's her
[36:36] daughter I met her when she was
[36:38] six
[36:41] um and I worked with her husband Tim as
[36:42] a GP
[36:44] um how have you balanced because I mean
[36:46] this all-in company how have you balance
[36:49] having a family and working as a costume
[36:51] designer because you're it just seems
[36:53] like all-encompassing
[36:55] well that's obviously hiring your
[36:57] daughter is probably smart or not one of
[36:59] them or not you know we had to we had to
[37:02] re redefine our communication skills in
[37:04] the office you're Mrs Scott the director
[37:07] yes you're Deb Scott you're not Mom and
[37:10] I'd be like you can't roll your eyes at
[37:11] me in the office
[37:13] I can't do that
[37:16] so it's been a it's it's a really
[37:18] fruitful wonderful relationship because
[37:20] you can you can excuse a lot of things
[37:22] and you can develop a lot of things you
[37:24] kind of know each other but and you can
[37:26] also make it work seven days a week
[37:27] because she's at home with you yes
[37:28] especially during lockdown it was really
[37:30] I mean because I think our crews are our
[37:32] family but you literally have kids in
[37:34] your family but I mean like I said I you
[37:36] I can't imagine how you have time to go
[37:38] to the grocery store and do what you do
[37:40] it's it's I think I think there are many
[37:42] people in this in this room that that
[37:44] struggle with that and I struggled with
[37:47] it for sure and there are things that
[37:49] you have to sacrifice you know you don't
[37:51] necessarily get to go out and have a
[37:53] beer with a crew because you gotta go
[37:55] home and be the tooth fairy so you
[37:58] choose you have to choose
[38:00] it demands an incredible group of
[38:03] colleagues around you you know child
[38:06] care providers teachers my God my
[38:09] husband
[38:14] he's probably mom and I mean because on
[38:15] the Titanic the kids didn't come with
[38:16] you no they but he brought them down to
[38:19] Mexico every weekend
[38:24] so you've got to find that in your
[38:27] community whether your community and
[38:28] families are all different kinds of
[38:30] assortments now right but you have to
[38:32] find
[38:34] a a community of people
[38:37] that support each other and you have to
[38:40] know that you're not necessary you know
[38:42] I have had I've turned down projects
[38:43] he's turned down project you just you
[38:45] just kind of carry on and keep your eyes
[38:47] on the prize and and and do your thing
[38:50] and hope that you're doing right by
[38:52] everybody thanks
[38:54] I I think it's pretty remarkable that
[38:56] that you know you this just and just
[38:58] again just to see what you've designed
[38:59] as a designer
[39:00] um you really are a master class and
[39:02] like you're not pigeonholed I love that
[39:04] you've done well thank you you know
[39:06] who's that girl to Titanic I mean it's
[39:08] like I can't wait to see what you do
[39:10] next
[39:12] thank you and I'm sure there's a million
[39:15] questions out there so let's open it up
[39:17] to you guys I'm you know
[39:19] yeah
[39:21] hi I'm Trish thank you
[39:24] so your samples were only for the
[39:27] digital digital virtual stuff what was
[39:29] your live action costuming so the the
[39:32] live action part of it is is a lot of
[39:35] uniforms in film two
[39:37] the it's all the humans that come back
[39:39] to Pandora so there's a there's that
[39:41] right there's and it gets it gets more
[39:43] complicated in film three but the the
[39:47] the samples were worn a lot by actors to
[39:51] inform their performances
[39:53] the actual actors yeah and didn't have
[39:57] to match the digital stuff exactly if
[40:00] they were just if they were there for
[40:03] informing me after that it wasn't
[40:05] completely necessary of that they
[40:07] completely matched well yeah no
[40:10] eventually they're gonna match right
[40:11] because because the performance capture
[40:13] happens very early on by the time we are
[40:16] working with post-production and putting
[40:19] all the stuff into the digital world the
[40:20] actors are kind of long gone
[40:22] they might come back if you're missing a
[40:24] piece of this or that but they're
[40:25] they're no longer there so but I think
[40:27] to your point the actors don't they
[40:29] don't film the actors in The Costume
[40:31] because the proportions are off right
[40:33] and the only thing like we one time we
[40:35] had to dress up Cliff Curtis who plays
[40:37] tanawari and
[40:39] Jim broke the bracelet you know it's
[40:41] like I'm like oh you know but it was it
[40:44] would it's it's amazing how it worked
[40:46] yeah you know the nerves of like oh my
[40:48] God are you for real gonna put that on
[40:50] him but you put it on him and you put
[40:52] the fan on them and everyone's just like
[40:53] oh my god it works you know it's it's
[40:55] weird but it was informative
[40:58] anybody else
[41:00] okay uh first of all really all the
[41:03] things that you've done and Back to the
[41:04] Future also
[41:06] um thank you the hot guy Avatar I don't
[41:08] know his name that's what I'm going to
[41:09] call him he's a chunky necklace I am so
[41:13] obsessed with it I want to touch it feel
[41:15] what are those
[41:23] it's Pandora it's actually
[41:25] um well they the centerpiece is is meant
[41:28] to be some kind of Bizarro tooth Jim's
[41:30] is obsessed with teeth for some reason
[41:32] right I mean let's be real it's like
[41:35] okay so I try to like how can you do
[41:37] that without it being too obvious you
[41:40] know and so that's that's basically a 3D
[41:42] printed piece with some things overlaid
[41:44] inlaid
[41:46] obviously there's woven leather keeping
[41:48] the whole thing together but the big
[41:49] pieces around are chunks of real power
[41:52] carved sometimes we would use a laminate
[41:56] power if you needed to get a particular
[41:58] shape it's sort of what's am I right
[41:59] float
[42:01] uh yes yeah show
[42:03] and I would I would go out on the
[42:05] weekends and collect lots of shells and
[42:07] then I'd bring buckets of weird stuff in
[42:09] and say like you know we're gonna make
[42:12] the costume out of this
[42:13] what but you had the luxury I've been
[42:16] able to then to go to somebody to build
[42:17] and like this doesn't exist but with
[42:19] this color this texture make me yeah do
[42:22] you have the Renault top
[42:23] the Ronaldo that's this is this is how
[42:25] this started was that I was Beach
[42:27] walking one weekend and I found a teeny
[42:30] tiny huh yeah I found no you don't have
[42:33] it it's just kind of this waterfall I
[42:36] almost walked by it because there's so
[42:37] many beautiful shells on the beach and
[42:40] in New Zealand
[42:42] and I went back and it was like this
[42:45] perfect
[42:46] soft cylinder of shell
[42:49] and we were working on that top and we
[42:51] weren't we just wasn't kind of getting
[42:53] there quite and I went and I said this
[42:55] is it and it's gonna be like this
[42:57] waterfall down her chest of all these
[43:00] pieces so they started carving little
[43:02] bits sometimes we'd use like I said
[43:04] inlaid so you could get if it was too
[43:06] hard of a shape because the shell is
[43:08] really hearty and really it's very very
[43:10] fun to work with and Jim's obsessed with
[43:12] it because that was like my God so
[43:14] sparkly you know it's like I love that
[43:16] he still like sparkle I love it it's
[43:17] like a sequin
[43:20] so
[43:22] and you have to consider too with it
[43:24] with the art the the digital side of it
[43:27] this costume makes noise right we hear
[43:30] that in in real movies like you hear
[43:33] like tinkle tinkle
[43:34] which the sound guy's gonna kill you and
[43:36] they put it in post but yeah
[43:38] did you able to find it yeah
[43:40] all right okay anyone else
[43:46] there's a particular scene the the
[43:49] departure of the ship I heard you have
[43:52] to mirror everything because the
[43:54] replacement of the ship was something
[43:55] about that is incorrect so it looks like
[43:57] did you deal with that singing Do you
[44:00] remember that yes they only Built one
[44:02] half of the ship right thank you thanks
[44:06] guys so
[44:07] it's in most most clothes of that area
[44:09] are very asymmetrical Deborah was tasked
[44:11] in making everything symmetrical because
[44:13] of the fact that there was only one half
[44:14] issue and they flipped the negative
[44:16] right so he would flip the negative so
[44:18] sometimes you know if you'd see the real
[44:19] dress and it had some Fringe on this
[44:22] side then it would be on that side so
[44:24] you go okay but it had it was very
[44:26] important when you had things like
[44:27] double-breasted suits you had to make
[44:28] sure that they closed both ways all the
[44:31] printing on all the hats and the
[44:33] sweaters and then make sure that
[44:34] everybody put on the Reversed one and
[44:36] they're like wait no you can't be there
[44:37] yours actually does say you know it was
[44:40] It was kind of it was fun though right
[44:41] okay it was it was like a puzzle and
[44:43] you're like everybody had to be on top
[44:45] of their game
[44:47] but I mean I just remember like you know
[44:49] it was like that was her frustration is
[44:51] that really at this very there was a
[44:52] drape and she had to just everything had
[44:54] like a center scene because you couldn't
[44:56] so this is what you were talking about
[44:57] yeah that's the one so no so is that
[45:01] digital is that fake or is that real
[45:02] shell well it's mostly real shell oh
[45:04] okay
[45:07] and it's on a wired kind of macrame over
[45:10] a beautiful base
[45:11] very simple really
[45:14] I mean it is
[45:27] when you design
[45:29] the what that you don't have to make oh
[45:32] yeah yes yes and it because
[45:36] the language that you develop building
[45:39] things with your hands and having people
[45:42] the brilliant people who worked for me
[45:44] build with their hands you can't I don't
[45:47] even think they could duplicate what
[45:49] they did
[45:50] and that's the beauty of it reforming it
[45:52] and that's how you sort of and that's
[45:54] why in a way that's why I love film
[45:56] three because we've really hit our
[45:58] stride in understanding the language of
[46:00] the costumes we were building
[46:02] and and that's kind of for us but you
[46:05] hope it translates to the audience too
[46:07] but yeah it's very nice not to have to
[46:10] make a multiple and I'm assuming that
[46:12] the digital artists are getting better
[46:13] each film like they now you know that
[46:15] you taught them how to weave digitally
[46:18] it's really frustrating with hair too
[46:20] because they only have they only have a
[46:21] couple of stimulations that they use and
[46:24] it starts at the root of the scalp so
[46:27] you're like No And they have like they'd
[46:29] always put too many too much hair on a
[46:31] person like the kid like she turned it
[46:34] you know the little girl she turned out
[46:35] with this massive thick and you're like
[46:37] no what look at the concept art she's a
[46:40] you know she's like a little flirtatious
[46:41] imp anyway any other questions up
[46:44] yeah I wanted to ask in terms of turning
[46:48] your physical costumes into digital was
[46:51] there ever like a actual scanning
[46:52] process oh yeah they scan everything
[46:55] inside upside down backwards every way
[46:58] they can do it
[47:00] um
[47:01] yeah that's what that's how they that's
[47:03] how they teach the computer
[47:05] yes Dave the mission will be
[47:08] accomplished on the back
[47:11] you guys created a much alike place
[47:12] without our food like before and father
[47:14] you created a bunch of stuff did you do
[47:16] that in phases to take uh like say it's
[47:18] the difference between like fresh
[47:20] flowers versus dried flowers aren't very
[47:22] expensive Ravens like were you know what
[47:23] I mean like how to change were you doing
[47:25] that so then you got more stuff to play
[47:27] with too lying I think as you you would
[47:30] know like a piece of flax like what it
[47:32] looks like when you take it off the
[47:33] plant and then how it looks much later
[47:36] so you can sort of
[47:39] choose
[47:40] where you want it to be
[47:43] and sometimes we would use different
[47:45] materials to mock that say but it's it's
[47:49] that part's kind of fine because you get
[47:51] to it's like the observance of nature
[47:53] that's so important
[47:55] but you also kind of get to say like you
[47:57] know what I'd like to have it be flax
[47:58] but it's actually purple so let's you
[48:01] know
[48:01] so it's pretty it can be quite
[48:04] imaginative and we can all get dragged
[48:06] down with the how hard every single day
[48:08] is at work we've all been on many
[48:11] projects where I'm sure you know it
[48:13] feels like a grind but you really need
[48:14] that time to step back and and be able
[48:17] to let your imagination go and be able
[48:21] to step back and look at something and
[48:22] go that's really perfect no I love that
[48:25] so that that's what you have to I think
[48:28] we all need to remember as we toil every
[48:30] day to also enjoy those things that you
[48:33] create
[48:33] I don't even know if that answered your
[48:35] questions but
[48:38] yeah I know there's some students here
[48:40] this is probably one of the rare
[48:41] opportunities to ask somebody like
[48:42] Deborah a question so any other
[48:44] questions out there
[48:48] but you've walked us to at least just
[48:52] like
[48:53] it's spectacular this piece is actually
[48:56] I think from this movie one of my my
[48:59] favorites and I think it was so because
[49:01] it was incredibly difficult
[49:03] we went through probably
[49:06] three design phases that like I would
[49:08] like and you know it was it was never
[49:11] quite right
[49:13] it was never the thing you know the
[49:14] thing that you have in your mind
[49:16] and because you can make it up it's
[49:18] almost like
[49:19] then you feel really feel like you're
[49:21] failing yourself because you're like you
[49:23] can make this up so we went through a
[49:25] bunch of of iterations of it and it was
[49:27] always too heavy and it was really
[49:29] difficult to come up with the idea of
[49:31] how to integrate the weaving and the
[49:33] structure and the flowers or the leaves
[49:36] or the pandorian flower leaves or
[49:38] whatever they are
[49:39] um so when we hit upon this one
[49:43] it kind of got really helped by the 3D
[49:46] mod the centerpieces 3D printed
[49:49] it was helped by the 3D modelers right
[49:52] so they could start to say like we could
[49:54] do this and I knew I wanted eventually
[49:56] the reason I really love it is because I
[49:58] think it shows strength right it's a
[50:01] power piece but it's so delicate it's so
[50:03] feminine and they did a really beautiful
[50:06] job of of the the digital process of it
[50:09] but so we've 3D printed it this was the
[50:12] third time around and a really wonderful
[50:14] artist named Yasmine at WETA did the
[50:18] weaving and made the leafy flowers so it
[50:22] was just trial and error like here's a
[50:24] bunch of flowers which which how should
[50:26] we go which one should we choose how do
[50:28] we change it a little bit of this a
[50:29] little bit of that
[50:30] so it just wants it once it got there it
[50:33] was like that it's very fragile though
[50:36] so no one could actually it was hard to
[50:38] we sort of put it on somebody once and
[50:40] then like you traveled here it could
[50:42] break
[50:44] I have another question like yeah all
[50:47] day
[50:48] um hair body art costumes you always
[50:52] start with the costume or the gym come
[50:54] and say Hey I want this girl to be a
[50:55] little more feminine or a little more
[50:57] you know was there in order did that I
[51:00] know it evolved but yeah I think we were
[51:02] we worked because you're when you're
[51:03] drawing a SketchUp we always put the
[51:05] head on you know so we just
[51:07] automatically did that it was just
[51:09] automatic Kiri uh Sigourney Weaver's
[51:13] character
[51:14] in the original kind of concept art that
[51:17] the production of designers had she had
[51:19] long braids like natiri
[51:22] she's supposed to be 15. she said she's
[51:25] kind of her own a free spirit it's like
[51:26] I'm like no that makes her look like
[51:28] she's 30. it's like this is completely
[51:30] wrong so we started playing around with
[51:31] this kind of different you know to to so
[51:35] that part was super fun because as we're
[51:37] developing the costume we're also
[51:39] developing the hairstyle
[51:41] that's right that's right so you can see
[51:43] like she's kind of a a collector she's a
[51:46] little avant-garde she doesn't fit the
[51:48] mold of all the rest of them and how do
[51:50] you show that so
[51:52] that was fun and also Sigourney was she
[51:54] was very involved
[51:56] um she would come to the our office and
[52:00] wander through we had a little
[52:02] kind of Museum setup of pieces and she
[52:04] just wandered through and picked things
[52:05] up and you know go away
[52:11] so it was really nice to be able to uh
[52:14] give her that kind of because it's also
[52:17] with the kids too the kids those kids
[52:19] didn't know they'd never done anything
[52:20] like this so we had we did about a
[52:23] week-long kind of thing of putting them
[52:26] in costumes and letting them run around
[52:28] and get used to the idea that yeah
[52:30] you're kind of naked but so what right
[52:32] so that they knew what it felt like
[52:36] so that the working with the actor it's
[52:38] just different but it's you know it's
[52:40] kind of wonderful
[52:41] yeah do you still have that personal
[52:43] involvement with the actors they get to
[52:45] absolutely absolutely and a lot of times
[52:47] when they would come in like when Kate
[52:48] was cast and she came back and we're
[52:50] like oh old home week here with the Jim
[52:53] Cameron film and uh you know Jim would
[52:56] say Deb come down bring the designs
[52:59] let's see what she's gonna you know let
[53:01] her hold some of the the pieces and see
[53:04] the
[53:04] the Artistry that's going to go into
[53:06] this and get her all excited
[53:09] another question there
[53:11] yeah
[53:12] again the body
[53:15] body is
[53:16] complete is that part of the costume or
[53:18] where is that part for me the bot the
[53:21] bodies are never
[53:23] they're never really painted that's the
[53:25] digital artist right but they have they
[53:27] have their but they have their their
[53:29] body paint their stripes everyone has
[53:32] individual stripes we didn't do that
[53:33] that was mostly established in the first
[53:34] film then they have these little
[53:36] bioluminescent dots and the uh emoticon
[53:40] Clan don't have body art this this clan
[53:44] because it's very apparent in a lot of
[53:46] Polynesian cultures we had to develop
[53:49] the tattoos so we did we did do that and
[53:51] we did that kind of in we did it mostly
[53:53] on naked bodies but we kept the cost the
[53:55] the idea of the costume in mind and then
[53:57] we would put it together and see how it
[53:59] how it looked
[54:01] anybody else
[54:04] um so I just had a question because you
[54:05] were mentioning like you know all of
[54:07] this is brand new it's never existed
[54:08] before and I kind of remember when the
[54:10] first avatar came out there were
[54:12] reporters of things saying like this is
[54:14] the end of costume designers
[54:16] you know
[54:22] that it's actually opening up new doors
[54:25] for us and it's really going to expand
[54:27] the workshop and give us more
[54:28] opportunity to create more things for
[54:30] more people on forward 100 100
[54:33] and I think that that's something that
[54:35] needs to be embraced next time anyone
[54:38] does an animated movie even if it's
[54:40] simply animated you know you say look I
[54:44] need I'm not just dropping a design
[54:46] I'm not just dropping a design in some
[54:48] fabric
[54:49] you're gonna do the whole thing and that
[54:52] you need to make the play that you're
[54:53] going to stay there and work with the
[54:55] digital artist so it turns out how you
[54:57] wanted it right so do you think um like
[55:00] as you're making this whole series of
[55:02] movies now is they're kind of like this
[55:04] this organic way of like there's going
[55:06] to be costume specific programs where
[55:09] it's like this is the digital weaving
[55:11] program that everyone should use in here
[55:13] on out well I'm sure are we gonna see it
[55:15] in Star Wars and Marvel and things like
[55:17] that
[55:18] well that's a very very it's a really
[55:19] good question because I don't know about
[55:22] how proprietary that stuff is but I'm
[55:24] assuming the programs that WETA FX
[55:27] develops I think if you go to WETA they
[55:30] they have it they're already figured out
[55:31] how to do it right so I'm sure the next
[55:33] project they have they'll you know like
[55:35] we learned how to weave
[55:36] and then and then Deborah Scott should
[55:39] be getting a commission because she
[55:40] caught them
[55:43] ownership
[55:44] exactly so we need we have strides that
[55:46] we need to make yeah you know and and to
[55:48] fight for Equity we need to add this to
[55:49] the list anybody can pick with you here
[55:51] yeah
[55:53] so I think it's also a really important
[55:55] point
[55:57] public at large the fan
[56:00] of maybe even some of you in this room
[56:02] but when you first see a movie like this
[56:04] you assume it's the production designers
[56:07] and the digital artists
[56:10] I I don't I mean I I just in this today
[56:12] we learned how much of it is you the
[56:14] costume designer and when they're taking
[56:16] they don't give us a credit for what we
[56:17] do but it's the costume Department that
[56:19] did the hair the props you know and
[56:22] developed developed the technology for
[56:24] them to film this in the next movie so
[56:25] it's like it really shows the value of
[56:28] custom design in ways that we couldn't
[56:29] have never thought about five years ago
[56:30] and and you're right that the expansive
[56:33] nature of the jobs that we can now claim
[56:35] right you can be an assistant costume
[56:37] designer now and do what she does
[56:40] right that's unbelievably important
[56:44] so for us as a community to embrace all
[56:47] these new technologies and jobs and
[56:51] opportunities claim it as ours
[56:54] you know instead of going oh yeah you
[56:56] didn't do that you know we don't it's
[56:58] not your department you don't know yeah
[56:59] well I think that we've been educating
[57:01] the public so they know that the vast
[57:02] amount of work that the customer
[57:03] department created on this I mean I
[57:05] think it's probably been any film that's
[57:07] out there right now nobody has this much
[57:09] responsibility so kudos to you thank you
[57:14] sure come in today and
[57:16] shavast experience with us I want to
[57:19] thank you all for coming out
[57:21] um I want to thank our incredible team
[57:22] at the CDG Ivy fade forget it Romanoff
[57:26] Anna wikoff literally Ivy called me and
[57:29] said I'd like to do a panel with Deborah
[57:31] I called Deborah Deborah said yes and
[57:33] then Ivy put this together in less than
[57:34] a month so Ivy thank you so much
[57:37] thank you
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[58:04] foreign
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