Full Transcript
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yat0ZKduW18
[00:22] The history of Western.
[00:24] The history of Western philosophy begins.
[00:33] In that area of the.
[00:35] In that area of the world which I hope you recognize as the.
[00:38] World which I hope you recognize as the Egn.
[00:40] Egn SE with.
[00:42] SE with Greece and uh Asia.
[00:47] Minor.
[00:49] Minor um the first.
[00:53] Um the first known philosopher who's talked about at.
[00:57] Known philosopher who's talked about at least um.
[01:00] Least um thees of.
[01:03] Thees of Myus um came from just about that.
[01:08] Myus um came from just about that location in the center of the West Coast.
[01:11] Location in the center of the West Coast of the Asia Minor.
[01:15] Of the Asia Minor peninsula in other words the Greek.
[01:19] Peninsula in other words the Greek colonies scattered around the.
[01:23] Egan now um a question that one usually starts with is how do you account.
[01:30] account then for the rise of Western philosophy there in the Egan area in ancient Greece and um there are several lines of explanation which are important.
[01:47] one is of course that it stands at the crossroads between east and west where traditional ideas would be challenged by the interaction with Eastern culture simply because of the way in which the trade routes came through Asia Minor and um down the Meander Valley the river Meander Meander down to the Sea so this is the Meander Valley there and the trade routes come that way uh so all right uh crosscultural.
[02:25] way uh so all right uh crosscultural stimulation led to the asking of some basic questions.
[02:31] um second thing that is emphasized a great deal and I think appropriately is that the early Greek philosophers were really um pre scientific.
[02:48] scientific scientists they were asking questions about the natural world about the natural order about the natural processes.
[03:00] uh they raise questions about basic elements what basic element or elements underly all of the rich Furniture of the heavens and the Earth that we see.
[03:14] what are the causal processes that account for the variation of things and the changes that.
[03:26] the changes that occur uh that sort of question.
[03:30] occur uh that sort of question um early philosophy of nature primitive.
[03:36] um early philosophy of nature primitive cosmology questions about the origin of.
[03:39] cosmology questions about the origin of the cosmos as we know it began to.
[03:42] the cosmos as we know it began to arise and you could see how they could.
[03:44] arise and you could see how they could be connected with the differences.
[03:46] be connected with the differences between east and west and the.
[03:47] between east and west and the stimulation that comes with the.
[03:48] stimulation that comes with the mythology of the two interacting and.
[03:52] mythology of the two interacting and coming into some degree of.
[03:54] coming into some degree of conflict but there is a third feature.
[03:58] conflict but there is a third feature that is tremendously important and I.
[04:01] that is tremendously important and I think um I've come to think.
[04:04] think um I've come to think increasingly um of particular.
[04:06] increasingly um of particular importance uh the earlier Greek.
[04:10] importance uh the earlier Greek poets.
[04:13] poets dramatists uh had the conviction that.
[04:16] dramatists uh had the conviction that the cosmic.
[04:18] the cosmic order which we observe in nature is also.
[04:22] order which we observe in nature is also a moral.
[04:25] a moral order a notion of cosmic Justice.
[04:31] order a notion of cosmic Justice is something that surfaces among some of
[04:33] is something that surfaces among some of those early literary
[04:37] figures uh in between the Odyssey and
[04:40] figures uh in between the Odyssey and the ilad it begins to appear in heod
[04:44] the ilad it begins to appear in heod it's
[04:45] it's explicit in escalas and Sly it's
[04:49] explicit in escalas and Sly it's present so that the question is whether
[04:53] present so that the question is whether there is an order to the
[04:56] there is an order to the cosmos that includes a moral order
[05:00] cosmos that includes a moral order order if this is a moral
[05:03] order if this is a moral Universe how do we explain that
[05:08] fact so then we have really two
[05:12] fact so then we have really two philosophical lines of thought in
[05:15] philosophical lines of thought in accounting for the origin of Greek
[05:17] accounting for the origin of Greek philosophy here one that focuses
[05:21] philosophy here one that focuses simply on um reflection about the
[05:25] simply on um reflection about the physical
[05:27] physical Cosmos and the other without reflection
[05:30] Cosmos and the other without reflection on the moral order which they believed
[05:34] on the moral order which they believed to exist in the processes of nature.
[05:40] so what I want to do today is to focus on the first of these their attention to the physical order and then next time to turn our attention to the moral order take a look at that.
[05:55] okay now with that in mind take a look at the out line that um I've just given you of the presocratic philosophers those prior to Socrates uh you notice I've grouped them where the principal grouping is in terms you notice of various kinds of monism under Romans 1 2 and 3 as against pluralism that is to say the question as
[06:34] pluralism that is to say the question as to whether there is one basic element.
[06:38] to whether there is one basic element that accounts for everything or whether there are many.
[06:41] everything or whether there are many basic elements that would be obviously a kind of qualitative.
[06:51] qualitative monism or monism or pluralism as the case may be quality.
[07:00] pluralism as the case may be quality qualitative is the one basic element or the many basic elements.
[07:05] elements but uh it also involves a quantitative question.
[07:12] quantitative question um whether there the universe is numerically one.
[07:17] numerically one allinclusive solid kind of sphere or whether there are numerically many distinguishable things.
[07:31] numerically many distinguishable things now that sounds obstru for the simple reason that you.
[07:36] obstru for the simple reason that you think you're something different than I think you're something different than I am.
[07:38] which implies there are many different things.
[07:42] so with a quantitative monism are going to is is going to arise some very fundamental question about the reliability of our sense experience.
[07:55] because if sense experience tells us we are many in in number but the theory becomes that everything is one in number there's something wrong either with the theory that everything is one or else something wrong with our sense experience.
[08:11] so um that will arise later on when we get down to the group labeled atics absolute monism named eleatics after Elia which is in the toe of Italy where some of these people were so that quantitative issue arises there but at the outset we're dealing in
[08:39] there but at the outset we're dealing in that naive.
[08:41] that naive monism of the.
[08:44] monism of the milesians with a.
[08:46] milesians with a qualitative pluralism or qualitative.
[08:51] qualitative pluralism or qualitative monism how many basic elements are.
[08:56] monism how many basic elements are there.
[08:58] now remember they've never been in the chemistry lecture.
[09:01] they've never seen the table of the elements.
[09:04] and um impressed as they are by the.
[09:08] ordered um arrangement of things.
[09:09] uh the initial tendency is to look for one basic element.
[09:20] and as you read these materials.
[09:23] and I hope you will have read through the primary and secondary materials on the presocratic by the end of this week.
[09:29] as you read these materials uh you'll find that.
[09:31] thees thought that everything was.
[09:41] thees thought that everything was ultimately reducible to derived from the one element He called water.
[09:50] now for the moment disregard the fact that you don't think it's an element.
[09:57] H2O he wasn't to know that poor phes you see uh it still sounds like rather a wild hypothesis everything composed of water.
[10:09] well wait a minute water is a remarkably adaptable kind of thing.
[10:15] it comes in liquid solid and Vapor.
[10:25] it is essential to life not only to your life and mine but to uh vegetation.
[10:36] notice how Brown everything is around here we've had quite a drought.
[10:42] is around here we've had quite a drought this summer I think I've mowed my front lawn once since early June.
[10:48] which um is a welcome change but it's a tragic one.
[10:52] you'll see uh no water is so fun mental to everything that goes on that necessity that understandably th's conjectured but maybe this is the basic stuff.
[11:16] well um he um wasn't the only person in the business and you notice the name of an ex amander who because he recognized that you have not only wetness you have only dryness you have also dryness.
[11:33] you began to see you have opposing qualities and the same in other.
[11:42] qualities and the same in other regards.
[11:43] regards heat and cold.
[11:47] cold light and light and dark.
[11:51] light and dark.
[11:53] dark male and female.
[11:56] male and female and in as much as if you had have opposing properties.
[11:59] female and in as much as if you had have opposing properties.
[12:01] opposing properties no one can be more basic than the other.
[12:04] properties no one can be more basic than the other.
[12:05] the other he supposed that the basic element must be something that is undefinable.
[12:08] other he supposed that the basic element must be something that is undefinable.
[12:12] must be something that is undefinable and that's what the word ayon means.
[12:14] undefinable and that's what the word ayon means.
[12:15] ayon means it cannot be defined.
[12:18] means it cannot be defined.
[12:21] defined it cannot be delineated marked off the Greek word Paras means a border a demarcation line.
[12:26] delineated marked off the Greek word Paras means a border a demarcation line.
[12:31] Paras means a border a demarcation line.
[12:34] line the alpha privative makes it negative so a Pyon.
[12:36] negative so a Pyon it has no definition it's undefinable you see and exines on the.
[12:40] Pyon it has no definition it's undefinable you see and exines on the.
[12:44] undefinable you see and exines on the other hand thought that
[12:46] other hand thought that air was the basic
[12:50] essential and so you begin to get this
[12:53] essential and so you begin to get this variety and what's surfacing if you're
[12:55] variety and what's surfacing if you're familiar with Greek literature what's
[12:57] familiar with Greek literature what's surfacing is um the fact that they are
[13:01] surfacing is um the fact that they are playing with the various
[13:04] playing with the various elements that the Greeks um talked about
[13:09] elements that the Greeks um talked about um even in their literature earth air
[13:14] um even in their literature earth air Fire and
[13:16] Fire and Water those are the four classic Greek
[13:21] Water those are the four classic Greek elements some of suggested that they
[13:24] elements some of suggested that they represent the four necessities of
[13:27] represent the four necessities of life Earth
[13:31] life Earth food air
[13:34] food air breath
[13:36] breath fire
[13:37] fire warmth
[13:39] warmth water something to drink and nourish us
[13:43] water something to drink and nourish us Earth they a fire and water for
[13:45] Earth they a fire and water for necessities of.
[13:46] Necessities of life but you notice that um here we have.
[13:51] Life but you notice that um here we have anex.
[13:54] Zimes here we have phes.
[13:59] Zimes here we have phes later on we'll find heraclitus and some.
[14:02] Later on we'll find heraclitus and some of the stoics plugging in on.
[14:05] Of the stoics plugging in on fire you.
[14:07] fire you see in other words in terms of the.
[14:10] See in other words in terms of the elements as they conceive them the.
[14:14] Elements as they conceive them the elements with which they were.
[14:16] Elements with which they were familiar which one of these is most.
[14:18] Familiar which one of these is most basic or is it none of.
[14:21] Basic or is it none of these as an ex Amanda.
[14:24] Supposed well the milesians were asking.
[14:27] These rather simple questions.
[14:29] Questions uh processes of change they.
[14:32] Thought could be explained in the case.
[14:35] Of air with condensation which produces.
[14:39] Moisture you.
[14:42] Moisture you see so there are all sorts of um.
[14:46] See, so there are all sorts of um possibilities in these proposals on the other hand.
[14:52] Pythagoras and Heraclitus, incidentally, that's the Pythagoras you meet in mathematics, the mathematician that um produced what becomes known as Pythagoras Theorem, that the square on the hypotenuse of a right angle triangle is equal to the sum of the squares on the other two sides, remember that.
[15:16] Pythagoras okay, Pythagoras and Heraclitus seemingly um uh independently of each other in the uh late 6th Century, that's to say before 500 in the late 6th Century.
[15:36] We saying that there is um to uh to Nature as it were two sides, each of which is equally.
[15:49] sides each of which is equally important a double aspect.
[15:53] important a double aspect theory now you you can get um perhaps a rough idea of what I mean by double aspect.
[15:58] aspect if you consider the question about a object that's almost becoming rare in this culture a saucer you know this is the age of mugs rather than delicate English China with teacups and saucers.
[16:21] but at least you know the uh the shape of a saucer is a sorcer concave or convex.
[16:40] yes from one point of view looking down on it from above it's concave from the other point of view.
[16:51] concave from the other point of view looking up at it as somebody carries it.
[16:53] looking up at it as somebody carries it along it's convex.
[16:56] two aspects to it.
[17:01] so to say that a sorer is both concave.
[17:03] so to say that a sorer is both concave and convex is to talk about the double.
[17:09] and convex is to talk about the double aspect nature of the.
[17:11] aspect nature of the sorer.
[17:14] sorer okay now what Pythagoras and heraclitus.
[17:17] okay now what Pythagoras and heraclitus are impressed with is that there are two aspects to everything in nature.
[17:24] on the one hand everything seems to be in a process of change.
[17:31] on the other hand there is order.
[17:34] what we call uniformity of nature.
[17:38] predictability is predictability is he oh yes to um to think of that change.
[17:48] heraclitus suggested that the basic element is like.
[17:53] element is like fire you know fire is always changing.
[17:57] you know fire is always changing uh have you noticed um sitting around a fireplace in the winter you get sort of mesmerized by the flickering flames that are always changing you see um it's almost hard to concentrate on reading philosophy around the fire for that reason constant ch change you see yet on the other hand this is an ordered universe there's regularity you know how certain kinds of wood will burn and when they're wet how they won't so you have both change and Order change and
[18:55] change and Order and Pythagoras and heraclitus into
[18:58] Order and Pythagoras and heraclitus into dependently of each other tried to talk
[19:01] dependently of each other tried to talk about precisely that the way in which um
[19:05] about precisely that the way in which um heraclitus does it is to suggest that
[19:09] heraclitus does it is to suggest that what we have is fire or some fiery Vapor
[19:13] what we have is fire or some fiery Vapor heat rising steam Rising everything
[19:16] heat rising steam Rising everything rising and changing and flickering and
[19:18] rising and changing and flickering and burning down and so forth fire plus some
[19:23] burning down and so forth fire plus some sort of um
[19:25] sort of um intelligible traceable order
[19:29] intelligible traceable order that he calls
[19:34] logos now you've run across that word
[19:39] logos now you've run across that word before that's the word that the Apostle
[19:41] before that's the word that the Apostle John is going to use in the first line
[19:45] John is going to use in the first line of his gospel in the beginning was the
[19:48] of his gospel in the beginning was the word
[19:50] isos in the beginning the
[19:53] isos in the beginning the logos you'll see this is where it first
[19:58] logos you'll see this is where it first begins to appear in Greek.
[20:01] begins to appear in Greek thought and John later adapts a Greek.
[20:05] thought and John later adapts a Greek conception in the light of Hebrew.
[20:07] conception in the light of Hebrew conceptions to his.
[20:09] conceptions to his purposes watch.
[20:12] purposes watch it now on the other hand uh Pythagoras.
[20:15] it now on the other hand uh Pythagoras the mathematician also talks of things.
[20:18] the mathematician also talks of things changing and um the idea of fiery vapor.
[20:22] changing and um the idea of fiery vapor is something he alludes.
[20:24] is something he alludes to but instead of talking of logos.
[20:29] to but instead of talking of logos what he talks about is a kind of.
[20:32] what he talks about is a kind of mathematical order to.
[20:34] mathematical order to things a mathematical order to.
[20:38] things a mathematical order to things um so that uh you can represent.
[20:42] things um so that uh you can represent all sorts of different shapes.
[20:46] all sorts of different shapes numerically you see this is a.
[20:49] numerically you see this is a mathematical kind of.
[20:52] mathematical kind of universe where you can trace out the.
[20:54] universe where you can trace out the mathematical order this is why he was.
[20:56] mathematical order this is why he was interested in geometry you.
[21:00] interested in geometry you see so you have these
[21:04] see so you have these two emphasizing that there is an
[21:08] two emphasizing that there is an orderedness to nature for all the
[21:11] orderedness to nature for all the processes of change and footnote in
[21:16] processes of change and footnote in anticipation of the theme next
[21:18] anticipation of the theme next time that means that amidst all of
[21:21] time that means that amidst all of life's change we should live a
[21:23] life's change we should live a rationally ordered
[21:26] rationally ordered life you see
[21:29] life you see the
[21:31] the ethic arises from
[21:34] ethic arises from this well by theas and
[21:38] this well by theas and heraclitus uh on the other hand when you
[21:41] heraclitus uh on the other hand when you get to the ear
[21:44] get to the ear attics they want absolutely no
[21:48] attics they want absolutely no pluralism no discrimination of two
[21:52] pluralism no discrimination of two aspects no world of
[21:55] aspects no world of change and Parmenides in very forthright
[21:59] change and Parmenides in very forthright fashion declares that change is
[22:05] illusory plurality is
[22:09] illusory physical motion is
[22:14] illusory physical motion is illusory the senses are simply the way
[22:18] illusory the senses are simply the way of
[22:20] of Illusion if you want the way of
[22:22] Illusion if you want the way of Truth you have to think in abstraction
[22:26] Truth you have to think in abstraction from all of the senses
[22:28] from all of the senses think
[22:31] think abstractly and if you um want to see
[22:34] abstractly and if you um want to see more of what is meant by thinking
[22:37] more of what is meant by thinking abstractly well you can read the palmen
[22:40] abstractly well you can read the palmen Selections in the Koffman
[22:42] Selections in the Koffman Anthology but um give attention to
[22:46] Anthology but um give attention to Zeno because Zeno tried to make the case
[22:50] Zeno because Zeno tried to make the case for this absolute
[22:52] for this absolute monism by posing
[22:56] paradoxes change
[23:00] is a
[23:02] is a paradoxical self-contradictory
[23:06] paradoxical self-contradictory thing that couldn't
[23:09] thing that couldn't occur for instance take for instance a
[23:14] occur for instance take for instance a hair that is chasing a
[23:18] tortoise does the hair ever catch the
[23:21] tortoise does the hair ever catch the tortoise
[23:23] tortoise no because you see here is the line
[23:27] no because you see here is the line along which they Tau is
[23:29] along which they Tau is moving but the time it gets to
[23:32] moving but the time it gets to there the hair has gotten that
[23:35] there the hair has gotten that far by the time the toris gets there the
[23:39] far by the time the toris gets there the hair gets that
[23:41] hair gets that far by the time the tortoise gets there
[23:44] far by the time the tortoise gets there the hair gets that
[23:46] the hair gets that far and because the hair keeps
[23:50] far and because the hair keeps advancing the
[23:52] advancing the toris because the tortoise keeps
[23:54] toris because the tortoise keeps advancing the hair never catches the
[23:56] advancing the hair never catches the tortoise
[23:59] tortoise you say he's already eating
[24:01] you say he's already eating it and that's
[24:03] it and that's illusory you
[24:05] illusory you see um does um a chicken ever cross the
[24:10] see um does um a chicken ever cross the street
[24:12] street no because if uh this much is the street
[24:16] no because if uh this much is the street then first the chicken haves the
[24:19] then first the chicken haves the distance h a l v s haves the distance
[24:25] distance h a l v s haves the distance then the chicken haves the remaining
[24:27] then the chicken haves the remaining distance then it harves the remaining
[24:30] distance then it harves the remaining distance then it harves the remaining
[24:32] distance then it harves the remaining distance then the remaining then the
[24:34] distance then the remaining then the remaining then never gets across the
[24:38] remaining then never gets across the street is
[24:41] street is he um millet
[24:45] he um millet seeds uh were regarded as the smallest
[24:49] seeds uh were regarded as the smallest seeds that there
[24:52] are melet
[24:55] are melet seeds now um to show the paradoxical
[24:59] seeds now um to show the paradoxical nature of
[25:01] nature of pluralism xenop POS is
[25:05] pluralism xenop POS is this how much sound would one Millet
[25:08] this how much sound would one Millet seed make if you drop
[25:11] seed make if you drop it no
[25:14] it no sound all right drop a sack of 10,000
[25:18] sound all right drop a sack of 10,000 millet seeds how much sound will it make
[25:22] millet seeds how much sound will it make 0 * 10,000 which is zilch
[25:29] 0 * 10,000 which is zilch no
[25:31] no sound but you heard the
[25:34] sound but you heard the third
[25:36] third illusion rationally it's
[25:40] illusion rationally it's impossible the way of Illusion is the
[25:42] impossible the way of Illusion is the way of the
[25:44] way of the senses the plural plurality of things
[25:47] senses the plural plurality of things that we
[25:50] see are a loser as
[25:56] plurality processes of change and motion
[25:59] plurality processes of change and motion are
[26:01] are illusory from a strictly logical
[26:05] illusory from a strictly logical standpoint there can be no change no
[26:11] standpoint there can be no change no plurality now I I don't think that there
[26:15] plurality now I I don't think that there has ever developed a school of thought
[26:17] has ever developed a school of thought known as Xeno
[26:19] known as Xeno ISM or
[26:23] paradism uh because um those people
[26:27] paradism uh because um those people represent uh sort of a logical
[26:32] represent uh sort of a logical Terminus that um nobody wants to follow
[26:37] Terminus that um nobody wants to follow them
[26:38] them to it's one thing to say that the senses
[26:41] to it's one thing to say that the senses are sometimes
[26:44] are sometimes auser it's one thing to say that sense
[26:46] auser it's one thing to say that sense perception is relative and changing sure
[26:49] perception is relative and changing sure and we'll find lots of people Plato and
[26:51] and we'll find lots of people Plato and so on and so forth say
[26:53] so on and so forth say that but to say that they are completely
[26:56] that but to say that they are completely auser
[27:00] well um if you say that why would you
[27:03] well um if you say that why would you say
[27:05] say it to whom would you say
[27:08] it to whom would you say it and why utter any sound in saying it
[27:13] it and why utter any sound in saying it if that position is
[27:15] if that position is correct why even record what Zeno and
[27:19] correct why even record what Zeno and Parmenides
[27:20] Parmenides said if that position is correct it's
[27:23] said if that position is correct it's self-defeating
[27:24] self-defeating you
[27:26] you see but the point of is um not the
[27:30] see but the point of is um not the position that they came up
[27:32] position that they came up with but the kinds of issues they're
[27:38] posing what does it mean to say that
[27:40] posing what does it mean to say that everything is one whole that this is a
[27:47] universe well presumably it doesn't mean
[27:50] universe well presumably it doesn't mean what Parmenides thought it
[27:54] meant but on the other hand is this a
[27:58] meant but on the other hand is this a world of radical pluralism with
[28:01] world of radical pluralism with everything
[28:03] disassociated radical individualism in
[28:06] disassociated radical individualism in an anarchistic kind of
[28:09] an anarchistic kind of Cosmos with no Law and
[28:12] Cosmos with no Law and Order you
[28:14] Order you see in effect what the presocratic did
[28:18] see in effect what the presocratic did for us was to pose the
[28:21] for us was to pose the issues and very often it's far more
[28:24] issues and very often it's far more important what question surfaces
[28:29] important what question surfaces than what answers
[28:31] than what answers surface let
[28:33] surface let see it certainly is with these
[28:38] people well when you get to the
[28:39] people well when you get to the pluralists you might say um this is a
[28:42] pluralists you might say um this is a breath of fresh
[28:44] breath of fresh air uh because here you have people imp
[28:48] air uh because here you have people imp pedicles an exageras
[28:50] pedicles an exageras democratus who see a
[28:54] democratus who see a multitude of different
[28:56] multitude of different things emperically in fact picks up on
[28:59] things emperically in fact picks up on all
[29:00] all four earth air fire and
[29:03] four earth air fire and water all four
[29:06] water all four elements and in order to explain the um
[29:10] elements and in order to explain the um kind of uh process that's
[29:13] kind of uh process that's involved he comes up with some sort of a
[29:17] involved he comes up with some sort of a cyclical view of cosmic history you they
[29:22] cyclical view of cosmic history you they seeing things going that way with
[29:24] seeing things going that way with integration and
[29:26] integration and disintegration um of the elements all
[29:29] disintegration um of the elements all the way through the history of the
[29:31] the way through the history of the cosmos but the four basic
[29:34] cosmos but the four basic elements and
[29:36] elements and exageras on the other hand thinks there
[29:40] exageras on the other hand thinks there must be um basic elements of every kind
[29:45] must be um basic elements of every kind of qualitative thing no matter how
[29:47] of qualitative thing no matter how different he calls them
[29:50] different he calls them seeds so um your body will have seeds of
[29:55] seeds so um your body will have seeds of bone
[29:58] seeds of
[30:01] skin seeds of
[30:03] skin seeds of Flesh seeds of
[30:06] Flesh seeds of blood seeds of
[30:09] blood seeds of muscle seeds of
[30:12] muscle seeds of hair so on so
[30:16] hair so on so forth and uh there are some suggestions
[30:19] forth and uh there are some suggestions that it might be um seeds of dark hair
[30:23] that it might be um seeds of dark hair or seeds of light
[30:24] or seeds of light hair seeds of curly hair or seeds of
[30:27] hair seeds of curly hair or seeds of straight hair
[30:28] straight hair where you're going to stop this sort of
[30:32] where you're going to stop this sort of pluralism but then having postulated
[30:36] pluralism but then having postulated such an infinite diversity of different
[30:39] such an infinite diversity of different things all of these
[30:41] things all of these seeds how are you going to account for
[30:43] seeds how are you going to account for the ordered Unity of the human body and
[30:49] the ordered Unity of the human body and for that matter of the
[30:52] for that matter of the universe and so what an exageras does is
[30:56] universe and so what an exageras does is to talk about about
[30:59] to talk about about um what he calls
[31:03] um what he calls noose or
[31:06] noose or mind as if there is some Cosmic
[31:11] mind as if there is some Cosmic mind drawing things into ordered
[31:16] mind drawing things into ordered unity in an ordered
[31:19] unity in an ordered Direction some sort of
[31:23] Direction some sort of divine noose
[31:28] you can see that uh in
[31:30] you can see that uh in groping for the source of cosmic
[31:34] groping for the source of cosmic order they're groping towards some
[31:37] order they're groping towards some concept of a Supreme Being you see the
[31:43] concept of a Supreme Being you see the beginnings of
[31:46] beginnings of theology in the ancient
[31:49] theology in the ancient Greeks in distinction from some of their
[31:54] Greeks in distinction from some of their mythology you see
[31:58] mythology you see but on the other hand when you get to
[32:02] but on the other hand when you get to democratus the picture is
[32:05] democratus the picture is different because while
[32:09] different because while edles and
[32:11] edles and anagas were qualitative
[32:16] anagas were qualitative pluralists okay qualitative
[32:19] pluralists okay qualitative pluralists
[32:21] pluralists democratus is a
[32:23] democratus is a qualitative
[32:25] qualitative monist everything is of one and the same
[32:27] monist everything is of one and the same quality
[32:28] quality body but a quantitative
[32:33] pluralist that is to say physical things
[32:36] pluralist that is to say physical things are
[32:37] are composed of
[32:39] composed of infinitesimal
[32:41] infinitesimal atoms an atom the word literally means
[32:45] atoms an atom the word literally means it cannot be
[32:47] it cannot be split it cannot be
[32:50] split it cannot be cut an indivisible pellet of
[32:55] cut an indivisible pellet of matter okay so physical things that we
[32:59] matter okay so physical things that we know are composed of a vast numbers of
[33:03] know are composed of a vast numbers of atoms indivisible pellets and the
[33:07] atoms indivisible pellets and the qualitative differences between cats and
[33:11] qualitative differences between cats and cabbages and cauliflowers and
[33:13] cabbages and cauliflowers and Kings you see the qualitative
[33:18] Kings you see the qualitative differences are due to the combinations
[33:21] differences are due to the combinations of
[33:22] of atoms producing those qualitative
[33:25] atoms producing those qualitative differences different combination
[33:28] differences different combination for a king than a
[33:31] for a king than a cauliflower now the idea is that the
[33:34] cauliflower now the idea is that the atoms come in different
[33:38] atoms come in different shapes and whirling around in some sort
[33:41] shapes and whirling around in some sort of cosmic
[33:43] of cosmic Vortex natural kind of
[33:46] Vortex natural kind of motion whirling around in this Cosmic
[33:49] motion whirling around in this Cosmic Vortex Collide hook onto each other
[33:52] Vortex Collide hook onto each other combin so larger Aggregates
[33:56] combin so larger Aggregates form and there is a result of
[33:59] form and there is a result of she
[34:00] she chance mechanical
[34:05] chance mechanical processes the whole body of things in
[34:08] processes the whole body of things in Heaven and Earth has been formed over
[34:11] Heaven and Earth has been formed over the course of
[34:13] the course of history so what you get then in um these
[34:18] history so what you get then in um these last people is particularly
[34:22] last people is particularly interesting because whereas um an
[34:26] interesting because whereas um an exageras
[34:30] is suggesting a
[34:33] is suggesting a teleological
[34:36] teleological explanation a teic
[34:39] explanation a teic explanation that is to say there is this
[34:42] explanation that is to say there is this Cosmic mind that orders things in these
[34:47] Cosmic mind that orders things in these intelligible
[34:49] intelligible ways
[34:50] ways okay on the other hand
[34:55] democratus has a pure mechanistic
[35:01] explanation has a purely mechanistic
[35:06] explanation has a purely mechanistic explanation blind
[35:09] explanation blind forces combining by
[35:12] forces combining by chance to produce the kinds of
[35:15] chance to produce the kinds of conglomerates that make up the
[35:19] conglomerates that make up the cosmos it's as if um somebody took a
[35:23] cosmos it's as if um somebody took a whole bundle and bundles and bundles of
[35:26] whole bundle and bundles and bundles of individual letters and wed them around
[35:29] individual letters and wed them around long enough and out came the Sunday
[35:31] long enough and out came the Sunday edition of The Chicago
[35:34] edition of The Chicago Tribune you see that sort of explanation
[35:38] Tribune you see that sort of explanation the sheer
[35:39] the sheer chance but um obviously um here you have
[35:45] chance but um obviously um here you have two philosophers Hing heading in vastly
[35:49] two philosophers Hing heading in vastly different
[35:51] different directions you
[35:53] directions you see a mechanistic kind of material
[35:57] see a mechanistic kind of material materialism in which nothing exists but
[36:00] materialism in which nothing exists but material
[36:02] material atoms being moved by chance
[36:08] forces
[36:10] forces okay and on the other hand a teologico
[36:14] okay and on the other hand a teologico explanation which is pushing in the
[36:17] explanation which is pushing in the direction of either some kind of
[36:19] direction of either some kind of theistic metaphysic or some kind of
[36:23] theistic metaphysic or some kind of idealism but some explanation which sees
[36:26] idealism but some explanation which sees some immaterial reality of a rational
[36:30] some immaterial reality of a rational sort uh accounting for the edness of the
[36:34] sort uh accounting for the edness of the cosmos
[36:36] cosmos now that's been a quick rundown and um
[36:40] now that's been a quick rundown and um before I pick up and pull some threads
[36:43] before I pick up and pull some threads together let me
[36:46] together let me pause did you get the
[36:53] story what do you want to get clear
[36:55] story what do you want to get clear again Ruth um
[36:58] again Ruth um you were saying that democratus is a
[36:59] you were saying that democratus is a qualitative lus but a
[37:02] qualitative lus but a quantitative right yes because all of
[37:05] quantitative right yes because all of the atoms individual atoms are
[37:10] the atoms individual atoms are qualitatively the
[37:12] qualitatively the same qualitatively alike so a
[37:17] same qualitatively alike so a qualitative
[37:19] qualitative monist but a
[37:21] monist but a quantitative pluralist many of them but
[37:25] quantitative pluralist many of them but all of them qualitatively alike yeah
[37:28] all of them qualitatively alike yeah does that make
[37:29] does that make sense um getting the terminology under
[37:32] sense um getting the terminology under your belt and as part of your active
[37:34] your belt and as part of your active vocabulary is part of the uh part of the
[37:37] vocabulary is part of the uh part of the task at this juncture um I have question
[37:40] task at this juncture um I have question on
[37:41] on epid who the first one oh and
[37:46] epid who the first one oh and pedicles okay you
[37:49] pedicles okay you say
[37:51] say model me
[37:54] model me um I I'm inclined to say no I think he
[37:57] um I I'm inclined to say no I think he is grouping towards a teleological view
[38:00] is grouping towards a teleological view for this reason that in that cyclical
[38:03] for this reason that in that cyclical picture of the elements combining and
[38:06] picture of the elements combining and disassociating um he ascribes that
[38:09] disassociating um he ascribes that cyclical process to uh two
[38:13] cyclical process to uh two forces that he calls love and
[38:18] hate attraction
[38:22] hate attraction repulsion now depending how you take
[38:25] repulsion now depending how you take those terms Love and Hate
[38:28] those terms Love and Hate they could be simply metaphorical terms
[38:30] they could be simply metaphorical terms for attraction and repulsion as we think
[38:32] for attraction and repulsion as we think of it in magnetism and
[38:34] of it in magnetism and electricity you'll see in which case it
[38:37] electricity you'll see in which case it would be a mechanistic
[38:39] would be a mechanistic thing but on the other hand if you take
[38:42] thing but on the other hand if you take love and hate to be some inner
[38:46] love and hate to be some inner directedness because of natural Affinity
[38:50] directedness because of natural Affinity you see um it doesn't have to be
[38:53] you see um it doesn't have to be conscious anymore than a daffodil
[38:56] conscious anymore than a daffodil growing up in the the spring or turning
[38:59] growing up in the the spring or turning to the light implies Consciousness you
[39:02] to the light implies Consciousness you see but as long as there is an order
[39:05] see but as long as there is an order that is end
[39:08] that is end oriented then you could say this is the
[39:10] oriented then you could say this is the beginning of a
[39:12] beginning of a teolog so I'm inclined to say that imp
[39:14] teolog so I'm inclined to say that imp pedicles isn't out into the clear yet
[39:16] pedicles isn't out into the clear yet one way or the other but I think he's
[39:19] one way or the other but I think he's edging
[39:20] edging towards the um theological view yeah
[39:28] okay um no I I want you to uh to get
[39:32] okay um no I I want you to uh to get this General structure of the
[39:34] this General structure of the presocratic
[39:35] presocratic period uh down as um well as you can
[39:40] period uh down as um well as you can we're not going to spend a lot of time
[39:42] we're not going to spend a lot of time on it just today and next time but we'll
[39:44] on it just today and next time but we'll be referring back to it again and again
[39:46] be referring back to it again and again it'll become point of reference okay so
[39:50] it'll become point of reference okay so keep in mind the
[39:54] milesians okay qualitative MO s of a
[39:58] milesians okay qualitative MO s of a rather simplistic
[40:00] rather simplistic sort the
[40:02] sort the milesians the double aspect theories of
[40:05] milesians the double aspect theories of Pythagoras and
[40:07] heraclitus the helics their absolute
[40:12] heraclitus the helics their absolute monism The pluralists Who pose the
[40:15] monism The pluralists Who pose the mechanism versus teleology
[40:17] mechanism versus teleology question and the reading that you doing
[40:20] question and the reading that you doing will put the Flesh on these bones the
[40:22] will put the Flesh on these bones the structure is
[40:24] structure is important now what um what I I want to
[40:28] important now what um what I I want to uh to
[40:29] uh to underscore is um the kind of question
[40:33] underscore is um the kind of question that these people are
[40:35] that these people are raising
[40:37] raising um we we think of um thees as about 600
[40:45] um we we think of um thees as about 600 BC okay pH about 600
[40:51] BC by the time we get down to uh
[40:55] BC by the time we get down to uh Socrates we're about 400
[41:01] BC so we've got essentially a 200e
[41:07] BC so we've got essentially a 200e span in which the presocratic are at
[41:11] span in which the presocratic are at work 200e
[41:14] work 200e span uh in which in effect they are
[41:19] span uh in which in effect they are formulating the philosophical
[41:23] formulating the philosophical agenda that Western philosophy has
[41:26] agenda that Western philosophy has worked with ever since
[41:29] they are formulating a philosophical
[41:33] they are formulating a philosophical agenda that Western philosophy has
[41:36] agenda that Western philosophy has worked with ever
[41:39] since now maybe you're inclined to ask
[41:41] since now maybe you're inclined to ask well why should we take their
[41:44] agenda well the thing is that it is so
[41:48] agenda well the thing is that it is so interwoven into Western thought
[41:52] interwoven into Western thought patterns in every discipline not just in
[41:56] patterns in every discipline not just in philosophy in every
[41:58] philosophy in every discipline for the simple reason that
[42:01] discipline for the simple reason that the later
[42:02] the later Sciences emerged as spinoffs from
[42:07] Sciences emerged as spinoffs from philosophy you'll
[42:08] philosophy you'll see have you noticed how your science
[42:14] see have you noticed how your science professors have doctor of philosophy
[42:19] professors have doctor of philosophy degrees and many of them never saw the
[42:23] degrees and many of them never saw the inside of a philosophy classroom except
[42:25] inside of a philosophy classroom except for people like Dr Chapel here who
[42:28] for people like Dr Chapel here who audits philosophy courses bless her
[42:31] audits philosophy courses bless her heart you
[42:34] heart you see uh simply because um natural
[42:38] see uh simply because um natural philosophy
[42:39] philosophy socalled philosophy of nature natural
[42:44] socalled philosophy of nature natural philosophy the sort of thing that these
[42:46] philosophy the sort of thing that these guys are
[42:47] guys are doing is the seed bed out of which the
[42:51] doing is the seed bed out of which the empirical and mathematical Sciences
[42:55] empirical and mathematical Sciences develop subsequently
[42:58] develop subsequently you
[42:59] you see if you um take Dr spradley's courses
[43:03] see if you um take Dr spradley's courses in the history of
[43:05] in the history of science you'll find that the history of
[43:08] science you'll find that the history of science up through or approximately the
[43:11] science up through or approximately the Renaissance is essentially one
[43:14] Renaissance is essentially one strain of what we do in the history of
[43:18] strain of what we do in the history of philosophy you
[43:21] philosophy you see then you begin to get the
[43:24] see then you begin to get the development of astronomy and physics
[43:27] development of astronomy and physics independently of philosophy later of
[43:30] independently of philosophy later of chemistry and of
[43:33] chemistry and of biology sociology doesn't begin until
[43:36] biology sociology doesn't begin until the mid 19th mid 19th century psychology
[43:39] the mid 19th mid 19th century psychology as a science not until early 20th
[43:41] as a science not until early 20th century it's late as 1910 what's now the
[43:44] century it's late as 1910 what's now the Journal of philosophy was called the
[43:45] Journal of philosophy was called the Journal of philosophy psychology
[43:47] Journal of philosophy psychology scientific method
[43:49] scientific method Etc I know that's a mouthful but
[43:52] Etc I know that's a mouthful but uh that's the way it
[43:55] uh that's the way it was so um
[43:57] was so um the agenda that is created you'll see by
[44:01] the agenda that is created you'll see by the presocratic
[44:03] the presocratic was um carried on in natural philosophy
[44:08] was um carried on in natural philosophy in ancient and medieval times and
[44:10] in ancient and medieval times and transmitted into modern
[44:13] transmitted into modern times so that in a sense the question
[44:16] times so that in a sense the question we're asking is still um what are the
[44:19] we're asking is still um what are the basic elements or if not basic elements
[44:21] basic elements or if not basic elements what's the basic
[44:23] what's the basic stuff
[44:25] stuff is whether you
[44:27] is whether you want protons or
[44:31] want protons or quirks take your choice we're still
[44:34] quirks take your choice we're still asking the same kinds of questions and
[44:37] asking the same kinds of questions and how do you describe the causal processes
[44:39] how do you describe the causal processes and the causal forces at work that
[44:42] and the causal forces at work that produce change you think same type of
[44:46] produce change you think same type of questions but what is that
[44:49] questions but what is that agenda what is that agenda and I I think
[44:52] agenda what is that agenda and I I think you can see um pretty clearly that it's
[44:56] you can see um pretty clearly that it's the kind kind of agenda that um you
[44:59] the kind kind of agenda that um you should have been introduced to more or
[45:02] should have been introduced to more or less in your introductory
[45:06] less in your introductory course where um we usually try to get at
[45:11] course where um we usually try to get at questions in what we call
[45:15] questions in what we call metaphysics whether or not they're label
[45:17] metaphysics whether or not they're label that
[45:17] that way questions in metaphysics having to
[45:20] way questions in metaphysics having to do with the nature of
[45:22] do with the nature of reality whether it be questions about
[45:26] reality whether it be questions about the natural world mechanism andology
[45:31] the natural world mechanism andology or questions about um whether matter is
[45:36] or questions about um whether matter is real in
[45:38] real in itself or not as George Berkeley
[45:42] itself or not as George Berkeley thought you see whether mind and matter
[45:46] thought you see whether mind and matter are two different kinds of substance as
[45:48] are two different kinds of substance as in the Mind Body problem in talking of
[45:50] in the Mind Body problem in talking of the nature of
[45:52] the nature of persons whether everything that occurs
[45:54] persons whether everything that occurs is due to causal processes and a deter
[45:57] is due to causal processes and a deter istic scheme or whether there's such a
[45:58] istic scheme or whether there's such a thing as free
[46:00] thing as free will whether there is an ultimate source
[46:02] will whether there is an ultimate source of cosmic order whether in fact God
[46:05] of cosmic order whether in fact God exists those are metaphysical
[46:09] exists those are metaphysical questions and you can see that that is
[46:12] questions and you can see that that is part of the agenda then posed by the
[46:15] part of the agenda then posed by the presocratic
[46:18] now I've also suggested that um
[46:22] now I've also suggested that um secondly there is a uh further
[46:25] secondly there is a uh further agenda under of the
[46:27] agenda under of the surface in
[46:30] surface in epistemology theory of
[46:32] epistemology theory of knowledge you'll see where you find
[46:36] knowledge you'll see where you find there are some of these
[46:39] there are some of these ancients who are thoroughgoing
[46:41] ancients who are thoroughgoing empiricists saying all that we know
[46:43] empiricists saying all that we know comes from sense
[46:46] comes from sense experience and indeed thees seems to
[46:49] experience and indeed thees seems to talk like
[46:51] talk like that um certainly the pluralists
[46:54] that um certainly the pluralists do though they do have a oal speculation
[46:58] do though they do have a oal speculation beyond that they're basically
[47:01] beyond that they're basically empiricists as distinct from
[47:04] empiricists as distinct from rationalists like Parmenides and Zeno
[47:07] rationalists like Parmenides and Zeno who disparage completely sense
[47:09] who disparage completely sense experience and say that only abstract
[47:11] experience and say that only abstract logical
[47:12] logical thought really um gives us reliable
[47:18] knowledge
[47:20] knowledge see and so epistemological questions are
[47:24] see and so epistemological questions are posed about how we know just how
[47:28] posed about how we know just how reliable is experience just to what
[47:31] reliable is experience just to what extent can abstract rational thought
[47:33] extent can abstract rational thought provide knowledge how are these two
[47:36] provide knowledge how are these two related you see that
[47:39] related you see that agenda thirdly there is an agenda about
[47:44] agenda thirdly there is an agenda about ethics and about Society if you like
[47:47] ethics and about Society if you like social
[47:49] philosophy because as I hinted both um
[47:53] philosophy because as I hinted both um both Pythagoras and heraclitus Main to
[47:57] both Pythagoras and heraclitus Main to Ain that if this is a rationally ordered
[48:00] Ain that if this is a rationally ordered Universe then we should live rationally
[48:02] Universe then we should live rationally ordered lives if we want to fit into the
[48:04] ordered lives if we want to fit into the universe want to find our place you
[48:08] universe want to find our place you see and even democratus suggests that a
[48:11] see and even democratus suggests that a life Guided by reason is a value in a
[48:15] life Guided by reason is a value in a mechanistic materialistic Universe how
[48:19] mechanistic materialistic Universe how come well these blind forces cause
[48:22] come well these blind forces cause Pleasure and
[48:24] Pleasure and Pain so if you gain enough understanding
[48:27] Pain so if you gain enough understanding of the causal
[48:30] of the causal processes and guide your life by what
[48:33] processes and guide your life by what you know of the causal
[48:35] you know of the causal processes you can then minimize the
[48:37] processes you can then minimize the pain and pursue the
[48:40] pain and pursue the pleasure but that takes a rationally
[48:43] pleasure but that takes a rationally guided
[48:44] guided life so out of these positions flow
[48:48] life so out of these positions flow ethical
[48:49] ethical positions what is the good life and what
[48:53] positions what is the good life and what do we have to do to pursue it
[48:57] do we have to do to pursue it you see so the this um whole agenda of
[49:02] you see so the this um whole agenda of Western philosophy then uh seems to be
[49:09] Western philosophy then uh seems to be implied um spelled out at least in its
[49:13] implied um spelled out at least in its basic terms uh by these presocratic