# 1 Uddhava Gita-4 contrasts with Bhagavad Gita. Newtown, Kolkata. - Chaitanya Charan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQs6xsBxkO8

[00:03] Hare Krishna.
[00:08] Grateful and delighted to be here with all of you today morning.
[00:13] I remember the first time I came to Newtown.
[00:16] We had started here with barely a.
[00:20] It was only a goshala.
[00:21] Now, there are so many shalas.
[00:24] So many buildings getting expanded.
[00:26] We've got so much land which is gradually.
[00:31] So, I think with this leadership and all of you working together, Krishna's mercy is manifesting in the birthplace of Sri Prabhupada in so many amazing ways.
[00:43] And happy to have the opportunity to be of some service here today.
[00:47] And this is the Uddhava Gita that we are discussing.
[00:53] So, I will discuss broadly over the next four sessions an overview of the Uddhava Gita.
[01:06] So, today will be an overview of the overview.
[01:12] What I mean is I'll give you the big picture of the Uddhava Gita today.
[01:17] And then we will go into the specifics of the discussion.
[01:23] So, here we are in the middle of the Uddhava Gita.
[01:29] Not exactly in the middle, but 11th chapter.
[01:33] So, broadly speaking, the Uddhava Gita comes in the 11th canto.
[01:41] And it is from the seventh chapter till the 29th chapter.
[01:49] So, it is the longest single philosophical section in the in the entire Srimad Bhagavatam.
[02:01] This is 23 chapters.
[02:05] The nearest one that comes is in other
[02:07] cantos among all the cantos of the Srimad Bhagavatam.
[02:11] How many cantos are there in the Bhagavatam?
[02:13] 12.
[02:14] So, among them, which is the longest canto?
[02:17] 10th canto.
[02:17] It is almost 1/3 of the entire Bhagavatam both in terms of number of verses and number of chapters.
[02:24] The Bhagavatam has 335 chapters.
[02:28] Now, after that, the third canto and the 11th canto.
[02:31] Both are fairly long cantos.
[02:34] Not just in terms of number of chapters, but also the number of verses in each chapter.
[02:39] And so, the second longest philosophical discussion is the longest is this 23 chapters Uddhava Gita.
[02:47] The second longest is actually the eight chapters of Kapila Upadesha.
[02:54] Kapila Devahuti Samvad.
[02:56] So, that is the second longest.
[02:57] And after that, there is nothing else that is as long.
[03:02] We have Vyasa Narada Samvad as three chapters.
[03:05] We have Rishabhadeva Upadesha as two chapters.
[03:09] Now, Prahlad's Upadesha, the Prahlad Lila is long, Prahlad Narasimha Lila, but the Upadesha, the philosophical discussion is not much.
[03:19] So, this is the most philosophically important section or longest and of course the important section in the Bhagavatam.
[03:27] So, I will talk about this as an introduction.
[03:29] We will contrast it with the Bhagavad Gita.
[03:34] And then we will dive into the Uddhava Gita.
[03:37] So, I'll talk about this contrast.
[03:41] The general So, I talk about it from four perspectives.
[03:45] You have at least we sit ourselves so that we can contemplate peacefully.
[03:51] So, first is the situation, the setting.
[03:55] What is not just physically where is it happening, but also chronologically where is it happening?
[04:04] What happened before that?
[04:05] That's the first thing we'll discuss.
[04:07] Second is the emotion.
[04:10] What is the character or the in this case Uddhava or Arjuna, what are they thinking?
[04:15] So, this is basically the BG and you can call it the UG.
[04:19] The Bhagavad Gita and the Uddhava Gita there having a contrast.
[04:23] Similarity and contrast both.
[04:25] The third we'll discuss the approach.
[04:28] How is the subject being discussed?
[04:32] And then we focus on the core teaching.
[04:39] So, the theme, the mood, the teaching.
[04:42] There are many things, but what is the core theme of the Gita book?
[04:49] So, the Uddhava Gita is Of course, we can have a basic contrast is the Bhagavad Gita is 700 verses.
[04:55] The Uddhava Gita is approximately 1040 verses.
[05:00] And there are different recensions, so there are slight difference in the number of verses.
[05:06] And of course, 23 chapters as compared to 18 chapters.
[05:09] That's basically a
[05:12] simple difference in terms of the length, but let's look at the situation now.
[05:18] Now, if we consider the Bhagavad Gita, so throughout I'll use BG and UG.
[05:27] So, if you see the both of them are spoken before disaster.
[05:36] So, this is spoken Bhagavad Gita is spoken where?
[05:41] At Kurukshetra.
[05:43] And again at Kurukshetra there is a war about to happen.
[05:49] And that war is a fratricidal war.
[05:54] Fratricidal means fraternal is brothers.
[05:58] So, fraternal relationship or fraternity is between brothers.
[06:00] So, fratricide side means to kill.
[06:03] So, suicide is to kill oneself, homicide is to kill someone else.
[06:09] So, genocide is to kill an entire country or a large community. So,
[06:14] fratricide is to kill one's brothers.
[06:17] So, in Kurukshetra a fratricidal war is about to happen.
[06:22] And before that Arjuna is overwhelmed.
[06:28] And that's the time when Arjuna speaks, Arjuna asks, and Krishna speaks the Bhagavad Gita.
[06:36] Now, as far as the Uddhava Gita is concerned, uh where is it spoken?
[06:42] So, the Bhagavatam is a bit ambiguous about it.
[06:47] It It is between Dvaraka and Prabhas.
[06:51] The technical word that is used in the 10 6 40 41 is vivikta upasangamya.
[06:57] Vivikta means in a secluded place.
[07:00] Upasangamya approaching.
[07:03] So, it's like a private place between the two.
[07:06] So, in one sense this is a very significant contrast.
[07:07] The Gita is spoken in a very public place.
[07:15] The Bhagavatam is spoken open in a private place.
[07:18] But not Gita is not just spoken in a public place, it is you can say in a public place of maximum visibility.
[07:26] Where between the two armies.
[07:29] Now, this is also incidentally for spoken before a fratricide is going to happen.
[07:40] Mhm.
[07:42] So, fratricide is the Yadus are going to fight amongst themselves.
[07:47] So now the way the Uddhava Gita's context is, this is the sixth chapter before this.
[07:54] And in the 30th chapter after this.
[07:58] So in the sixth chapter is the the description of the omens.
[08:05] The inauspicious omens, how the brahmanas the brahmanas have uh cursed the Yadu princes.
[08:15] And then
[08:16] because of that curse, inauspicious omens have come.
[08:20] And Krishna says, "Let us go to Prabhas.
[08:22] By bathing in that place, we can mitigate the effect of the curse.
[08:27] And when Krishna tells everyone to go, immediately everyone starts leaving.
[08:31] At that time, Uddhava intuits.
[08:34] He senses that Krishna is going to depart from the world.
[08:37] And that time, he approaches Krishna.
[08:41] And he speaks to Krishna saying, "I cannot live without you.
[08:46] I cannot live in separation from you.
[08:49] Please take me with you."
[08:53] So that is the context where the discussion of the Uddhava Gita starts.
[08:58] Now after this, in the 30th chapter, so the Uddhava Gita technically is from chapter 7 till chapter 29.
[09:08] So the Yadu war the the Yadu Yadu vadha Yadu vinasha that happens in the next chapter, that
[09:18] Is chapter 30.
[09:24] Is Krishna disappears.
[09:30] So this is clearly the last instruction that Krishna has given.
[09:37] So this is the situation in which the discussion is happening.
[09:41] Both are just before a catastrophe is going to come.
[09:48] And both are philosophical discussions that have happened.
[09:52] But there is a significant difference.
[09:56] The key difference is one is in public, the other is in private.
[09:58] And there another key difference over in the situation is that Arjuna is about to fight the war.
[10:09] And that brings us to the next part of it.
[10:09] What is the acronym we are discussing?
[10:15] See, so E is emotion.
[10:19] So, in general it is almost always that wisdom does not come easy.
[10:32] Wisdom does not come free.
[10:34] Wisdom is almost always a product of pain.
[10:38] Mhm.
[10:39] That we can learn that we can learn.
[10:52] But beyond that philosophical knowledge often comes when one faces great pain in life.
[11:01] Many times when we present spiritual truths we have to present them faithfully, but also sensitively.
[11:10] So, most people in today's world they just find the idea that the world is a college as very pessimistic.
[11:18] How this world is a place of distress.
[11:21] So, the way I I try to come up with various formulations.
[11:25] So, one of the ways I present it and this connects with people a lot is that I say the world is a university of adversity.
[11:36] It's a university of adversity.
[11:40] So, the syllabus in this world is itself pain.
[11:44] So, the pain is not pointless.
[11:47] It is dukha is there.
[11:50] But, the dukha has a purpose.
[11:52] And what is the purpose of dukha?
[11:57] It is adversity is there.
[12:00] Through adversity, so it is university of engineering, university of maths, university of uh arts or English or whatever.
[12:07] So, through the university, what is it that we learn?
[12:11] So, through adversity, essentially, we learn what really matters.
[12:20] Throughout the syllabus of life,
[12:23] we need to keep learning and relearning the two two things basically.
[12:28] What to let go,
[12:30] what to hold on.
[12:36] Why? Because it was Arjuna who was tasked with killing Bhishma and Drona.
[12:45] Who were the people who were closest to them?
[12:49] Now, Bhima had taken a vow to kill Duryodhana and his brothers.
[12:53] Now, there's no pain. There would be joy in that.
[12:56] In one sense. Of course, it is not that Bhima was looking forward to Even Bhima sought uh sought peace.
[13:02] And Bhima with Krishna went as Shantiduta. Bhima said, "Krishna, please speak uh persuade persuade Duryodhana so that we can avoid the war. War is terrible."
[13:14] So, but so Duryodhana it was not that Bhima was eager. He also knew the terrible cost of fighting. But, the person whom he had to kill
[13:25] was not a person who we loved.
[13:29] Yudhishthira also didn't have to kill Bhishma in the war.
[13:31] He was not They were primarily archers and Yudhishthira's specialty was spear fighting.
[13:34] So, the toughest task before the war was for Arjuna.
[13:36] And therefore, the greatest pain was Arjuna's.
[13:39] And that's when in that immense pain, Arjuna felt, "Is this war really worth fighting?"
[14:01] See, there are many different kinds of pains in the world.
[14:08] So, we can say there is As I said, the university of adversity.
[14:10] So, adversity is one level of pain.
[14:12] Atrocity is another level of pain.
[14:15] What is the difference between adversity and atrocity?
[14:19] I was asking this in the same
[14:26] One university program I was doing.
[14:28] And one boy said, "This question is adversity and atrocity."
[14:35] So, how many of you think adversity and atrocity are different?
[14:41] There's a difference.
[14:42] Okay.
[14:43] How many of you think there's no difference?
[14:46] How many of you think the difference does not make any difference?
[14:52] So, adversity is more natural.
[14:58] Atrocity is more intentional.
[15:03] So, say we have a big festival, big celebration, big ceremony, and it's in the evening, and before that, the power supply goes off.
[15:12] That will be an adversity.
[15:16] But if you came to know that our neighbor deliberately cut off our power supply, that would be atrocity.
[15:24] So, Bhishma in the first word that he
[15:26] speaks to Yudhisthira in the Bhagavatam, he differentiate between the two.
[15:32] Aho kashtam, aho annyayam.
[15:32] So, kashta is adversity.
[15:36] Annyaya is atrocity.
[15:40] So, the Pandavas suffered kashta when their father passed away.
[15:44] They suffered annyaya when they were attempted to be burned or their wife was dishonored.
[15:51] So, that is adversity and atrocity.
[15:54] Now, among these two, if you if you could have a pain scale, which will be more painful?
[16:02] Atrocity will be more painful.
[16:05] But, there's a third which is even more painful.
[16:09] That is what we can call as agony.
[16:12] So, in this case, bad things happen to us.
[16:17] But, in this case, bad has to be done by us.
[16:22] So, Arjuna is in this situation where
[16:27] The Mahabharata repeatedly depicts the brutal reality of life.
[16:33] Where time and time again, good people are left with no good options.
[16:41] Life is so so complicated, life is so confounding that good people have no good choices.
[16:52] Now, fighting against the Kauravas, who are their own family members, that is not not a good option.
[17:01] But, it is like sometimes you you can't have any good option.
[17:03] You have only bad choices.
[17:07] And the only choice is between the bad choice and the worst choice.
[17:11] So, Arjuna is in that situation.
[17:14] That's That's it's a great pain.
[17:16] So, agony is See, these were not just his relatives.
[17:23] Fighting against relatives itself is painful.
[17:27] So, I was giving a talk recently in Mumbai.
[17:30] And my boss said, "Actually, fighting against relatives is very easy nowadays.
[17:34] People fight all the time.
[17:36] But normally, if that is a person, maybe we have some family disputes or something like that.
[17:43] But generally, if we There's a relative we care about, then fighting against them is not pleasant.
[17:46] That itself is a pain.
[17:49] On top of that, if they're not just relatives, they're elders.
[17:53] Say, if there's an inheritance fight between two siblings, that's painful.
[17:58] But if, say, you have to fight with your parents, or you have to fight with your uncles or your grandparents,
[18:06] now, fighting with elders in any cultural society, it is even more painful.
[18:11] So, Bhishma and Drona were not just relatives, they were elders.
[18:15] And not just elders, we have many elders.
[18:18] These are also elders who were his teachers.
[18:23] Bhishma had taught him archery, and then Drona had taught him archery.
[18:29] Bhishma had also taught him many things.
[18:31] So, these were not just We have We have many elders,
[18:36] but some elders who have contributed in our life, taught us something valuable.
[18:41] So, Arjuna had learned archery from these people.
[18:45] And we may Even in the course of our life, we may have many teachers.
[18:50] But so So, we attend their classes, and we learn something from them.
[18:54] But there are some teachers with whom we have a very deep personal relationship.
[19:00] That means, say, if we go We are going out for tea If we are going out for sharing Krishna bhakti, we go on a tour or we go for programs.
[19:15] And we what we speak, we may have learned from many people.
[19:19] But then, there are some some senior teachers whom we are especially connected with, we come and report to them.
[19:24] That our outreach is not just based on what we have learned, our
[19:29] outreach is for their pleasure.
[19:35] So, we can call these as not just teachers, but our mentors.
[19:38] So, Bhishma and Drona were not just the people who had taught Arjuna archery.
[19:44] These were the people for whose pleasure he had learned archery.
[19:49] And now, he had to to attack them with that very archery.
[20:00] So, it is extremely difficult.
[20:03] When I was giving this class in America and it was we have a place where there are lots of Prabhupada disciples.
[20:08] So, when I was explaining this, one day he came to me and one Prabhupada disciple he came and told me, he said that this was the situation I was in.
[20:14] He said that I was introduced He's also Prabhupada disciple.
[20:17] And see, for us all Prabhupada disciples are very senior.
[20:21] But among them also, there is a hierarchy.
[20:25] Somebody came '65, '66, '67, somebody came in '71, '72, '75.
[20:28] So, he was telling that the person who
[20:30] was my shiksha guru,
[20:32] you know, he he was very senior
[20:34] Prabhupada disciple, he deviated.
[20:36] And then, I was sent as the GBC
[20:39] representative to go to his people and
[20:43] tell them how he is wrong.
[20:45] So, he is the person who had taught me.
[20:48] And I had learned philosophy. He was not
[20:50] just my teacher, he was also my mentor.
[20:53] So, he says, "Among all the services
[20:54] I've done in my life, that is the most
[20:56] painful service."
[20:58] So, we don't want to refute our
[21:01] teachers. We don't want to tell our
[21:03] teachers that they are wrong. We don't
[21:06] want to use our words to attack our
[21:08] teachers.
[21:09] But that was the extent of pain that
[21:11] Arjuna was
[21:13] So, it is in that pain Arjuna in tears
[21:16] that Santa Maria Vishton Ashu Muna dish.
[21:22] Now, if you consider this pain itself is
[21:24] unbearable. But what is the pain of
[21:27] Udhava?
[21:29] In one sense, Udhava's pain is lesser
[21:33] and other sense it is greater.
[21:36] So, Udhava's pain is lesser
[21:38] because it is not that he doesn't have
[21:42] to act aggressive.
[21:44] There is no aggressive action that he
[21:47] has to do.
[21:49] Like Arjuna has to fight against the
[21:51] Kauravas.
[21:54] But it is greater.
[21:58] His pain is greater because
[22:02] he is going to be abandoned.
[22:05] He is going to be alone.
[22:09] He is going to be powerless.
[22:12] So, he he knows this is going to happen
[22:16] and he senses that while all the Yadus
[22:20] will fight against each other and some
[22:22] some no sense of some destruction is
[22:23] going to happen.
[22:25] Senses that Krishna is going to depart
[22:26] from the world.
[22:28] He senses that Krishna doesn't want him
[22:30] to go.
[22:32] And that is the thing. Life is painful.
[22:37] And pain is difficult to process. But
[22:41] it is a hundred times more painful if we
[22:44] have to process the pain all alone.
[22:50] So, we get a sense of his pain
[22:54] in the third canto of the Srimad
[22:55] Bhagavatam in chapter two. When Vidura
[22:58] meets Udhava and asks him, "You know,
[23:00] how is Krishna?" And Udhava says, "The
[23:03] sun of the world has set.
[23:06] And there is darkness inside and outside
[23:08] everywhere."
[23:09] And then he remembers Krishna's
[23:12] pastimes.
[23:13] So, for him he says, "Not It's one thing
[23:17] that if we are if
[23:22] if some senior devotees are not there,
[23:23] at least equals are there. Some equals
[23:25] are not there, some juniors are there.
[23:26] Somebody is there with us. Somebody who
[23:28] can understand us.
[23:31] But if we are in a place where
[23:34] absolutely nobody understands what we
[23:36] are doing, then
[23:38] then that pain is even more difficult."
[23:43] I was in Australia just 3 days ago. I
[23:45] came to Australia. So, I met one
[23:46] devotee. He was He was in Ukraine.
[23:50] And when Russia attacked Ukraine, see,
[23:52] unfortunately, both Russia and Ukraine
[23:54] have had lots of devotees.
[23:57] And what happened is that's where, like,
[23:58] you know, in India, we can say that
[24:01] our Krishna bhakti and our love for
[24:04] India both go together.
[24:06] You know, to some extent, at least.
[24:08] But what happened is that there were
[24:09] devotees on both sides. Both loved
[24:11] Krishna. But then they also loved
[24:13] Ukraine and they also loved Russia.
[24:16] So, that's caused a lot of conflict.
[24:18] So, the way it happened was
[24:21] that this devotee was somehow arrested.
[24:24] And he was put in jail.
[24:26] And he lost his entire family. He was
[24:29] for several months in jail and somehow
[24:31] there was a prisoner swap, he was
[24:32] released. And then he got asylum in
[24:34] Australia.
[24:35] So, he's saying, "For those months when
[24:36] I was in jail, my bead bag was taken
[24:39] away, everything was taken away from me.
[24:41] And the pain was not just that, you
[24:44] know, I couldn't chant. I was completely
[24:46] alone. Nobody could understand
[24:49] my bhakti.
[24:51] And sometimes you may hear fanciful
[24:53] stories about Not fancy Not fancy
[24:54] wonderful stories about devotees
[24:56] preaching in prisons.
[24:58] But it's not always easy.
[25:00] And in this particular case, because
[25:02] he's a prisoner of war,
[25:04] so there was a lot of suspicion.
[25:07] And he just couldn't talk with anyone.
[25:10] So that pain of being of not only going
[25:13] through pain, but going through pain
[25:15] alone.
[25:17] With nobody who supports us, nobody who
[25:19] understands us, nobody who comforts us.
[25:22] So that was the pain that Uddhava was
[25:24] going through.
[25:26] So a fratricide is going to happen.
[25:29] And before it is going to happen, this
[25:32] situation has come upon them.
[25:34] And he say, "I don't If you're not going
[25:37] to be here, let me go with you, Krishna.
[25:40] Don't leave me here."
[25:42] So what happens here by the end of the
[25:45] Uddhava Gita is in the 29th chapter,
[25:47] Uddhava go is told to go to
[25:50] Badrikashrama.
[25:52] And that's where he lives.
[25:57] So in one sense, there's a difference
[25:59] again is that
[26:01] uh Krishna tells Arjuna to go into the
[26:04] war, go into the fight, go into the
[26:06] fratricide. He tells Uddhava to go away
[26:08] from the fratricide.
[26:10] But both are painful.
[26:15] What is the next word in the acronym?
[26:18] A. So A is approach.
[26:23] But in terms of approach, there is
[26:27] There are many differences, but there's
[26:28] one very significant difference
[26:31] is that
[26:32] in the Gita,
[26:34] principles
[26:35] are explained.
[26:40] That is Krishna talks about Gyan Yoga,
[26:42] Dhyana Yoga, Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga.
[26:45] So principles are explained
[26:49] in the Bhagavad Gita. And in the Uddhava
[26:52] Gita, also the same thing is there, but
[26:55] there's something more. Principles
[26:57] are not just explained, but they are
[27:00] also illustrated. They are also
[27:03] exemplified.
[27:05] Exemplified means that stories of
[27:08] various characters are told.
[27:11] Through which some their realizations
[27:14] are given.
[27:15] So, it is not just conceptual
[27:16] explanation, it is also
[27:19] Now, there's not an elaborate story of
[27:21] anyone, but still there is some
[27:24] characters and some stories through
[27:25] which some things are taught. Now,
[27:27] Krishna mentions some characters
[27:30] in very much in passing in the Bhagavad
[27:32] Gita. He mentions Vivasvan, he mentions
[27:34] Janaka,
[27:35] but there's nothing specific
[27:37] elaboration.
[27:39] So, this makes it much more different.
[27:42] So, say relatively speaking, the
[27:44] Bhagavatam is stories
[27:47] with some philosophy inserted in them.
[27:50] The in the discussion of the stories.
[27:52] Whereas here the Uddhava Gita is
[27:54] primarily the
[27:56] primarily the reflection of the
[27:57] realization
[27:59] with some character some story before
[28:02] that.
[28:03] So, in one sense if you could say, the
[28:05] Uddhava Gita is somewhere between the
[28:08] between the Bhagavad Gita and the
[28:10] Bhagavatam.
[28:11] So, if you put it this way in a
[28:12] continuum,
[28:14] so there are concepts
[28:16] or let's put principles, use the same
[28:18] word,
[28:19] principles and stories.
[28:25] Philosophy and pastimes we can put it
[28:27] simply.
[28:28] But
[28:30] also so if the Gita is 100% philosophy,
[28:36] the Bhagavatam we could say it's almost
[28:38] like say
[28:40] it's 70% stories
[28:43] and 30% pastimes.
[28:47] So, 70% story, 30% philosophy.
[28:50] The Uddhava Gita, but even when there
[28:52] are stories,
[28:54] it is like they're 30% 70%. So, 30% is
[28:58] the story,
[28:59] 70%. I'll just approximate, but it's
[29:01] just indicative.
[29:03] That like but at least there is some
[29:05] mention of characters.
[29:08] So, who are the characters? Broadly, we
[29:11] have the
[29:12] Avanti brah- we have the Avadhuta
[29:14] brahmana.
[29:15] We have the Avanti brahmana.
[29:19] We have Pururava.
[29:23] And we have Pingala.
[29:26] Now, there is a discussion between Hamsa
[29:28] and the Kumaras, but there's not much
[29:30] discussion elaboration about anything
[29:33] about the life of Hamsa, Hamsa avatar.
[29:36] There is just a but Uddhava asks a
[29:38] question, and Krishna says, "This
[29:40] question has been asked before."
[29:43] And then he refers to the conversation
[29:45] between Hamsa and
[29:47] Hamsa and the sons of Brahma.
[29:49] So,
[29:50] so there is this particular discussion
[29:53] which is illustrated so so in each of
[29:56] these cases, some events happen, and
[29:58] then the realizations of the events are
[30:00] described.
[30:01] So, the in terms of approach, the
[30:03] Uddhava Gita is illustrating through
[30:07] stories. It's not just concepts.
[30:09] Now, why the difference? At one level,
[30:12] it is that the Bhagavad Gita is a
[30:14] emergency book.
[30:16] A war is about to happen, and there is a
[30:17] great urgency. The Uddhava Gita is also
[30:20] urgency, but Krishna is going to take
[30:23] the
[30:24] the Yadus to Prabhasa Kshetra.
[30:26] So, it's not that everybody is waiting
[30:29] for a war to begin. It's not that
[30:31] urgent.
[30:32] So, the Uddhava Gita is a little more
[30:33] elaborate. And
[30:36] Arjuna has to fight a war, and he wants
[30:39] to know what is dharma.
[30:41] Uddhava, on the other hand, wants to
[30:44] also learn how to process the pain.
[30:47] How does he go on with it? See, for
[30:49] Arjuna, it's a very topical. How do I
[30:51] What do I do at this time? So, fight
[30:52] this war.
[30:53] That war will go on for 18 days. Now,
[30:56] Uddhava has to live on for many, many
[30:58] years.
[31:00] So, he has to be taught through
[31:02] examples.
[31:03] So, the approach is the the way method
[31:06] of teaching in English is called a
[31:07] pedagogy. Pedagogical approach here is
[31:10] more of not just principles explained,
[31:12] but philosophical principles illustrated
[31:14] or exemplified.
[31:16] And that brings us to the last part.
[31:19] What is the last part?
[31:21] Theme.
[31:23] And this is where we see the biggest
[31:25] difference in the Uddhava Gita and the
[31:28] Bhagavad Gita.
[31:30] The Bhagavad Gita
[31:32] is
[31:33] essentially a world-transforming
[31:37] book.
[31:39] The The Uddhava Gita is a
[31:41] world-transcending
[31:43] book.
[31:47] World-transforming means what?
[31:49] That Krishna wants Arjuna to function in
[31:54] the world.
[31:55] Not just function and stay in the world,
[31:58] but actually do his dharma in the world.
[32:01] Broadly, when we practice bhakti,
[32:04] our bhakti generally has these two
[32:06] dimensions.
[32:07] We consider above us is Krishna.
[32:10] One is we connect with Krishna directly.
[32:13] The other is we connect with Krishna
[32:14] through the world.
[32:16] So, broadly, we can say our direct
[32:17] connection with Krishna is our sadhana.
[32:22] And our connection with Krishna through
[32:23] the world is our seva.
[32:25] So, the sadhana is more
[32:27] world-transcending.
[32:29] The seva is more world-transforming.
[32:34] So, bhakti He both dimensions, and both
[32:36] are important.
[32:38] But broadly speaking,
[32:40] the Gita's focus is more on this world
[32:43] transforming.
[32:44] The Bhagavatam's focus is more on world
[32:47] transcending.
[32:49] And that also depends on
[32:51] what Krishna wants the character to do.
[32:54] Krishna wants Arjuna to demonstrate
[32:57] dharma to us all, to demonstrate how to
[33:00] assist God in doing dharma.
[33:02] So, Krishna said, "I have come to
[33:03] establish dharma dharma sthapanarthaya
[33:06] sambhavami yuge yuge." He says, "I want
[33:08] you to help me in this nimitta matram
[33:11] bhavasavya sachi."
[33:13] So, it is much more engaged bhakti.
[33:18] Whereas in the Bhagavatam, it is much
[33:22] more that okay, Krishna has finished his
[33:24] mission in this world. Krishna wants
[33:26] the state, but he doesn't want him to do
[33:28] it take away the royal responsibilities.
[33:29] Oh, the Dwarka kingdom is destroyed, so
[33:31] now you reestablish the kingdom. Nothing
[33:34] like that.
[33:35] Now, you fight to reestablish the
[33:37] kingdom, you protect No, you transcend
[33:39] the world.
[33:41] So, in many ways, the Bhagavatam is this
[33:44] particular story is also very
[33:45] significant. So, the Bhagavatam is
[33:46] spoken by whom to whom?
[33:50] By
[33:51] Parikshit Maharaj to Sukadeva Goswami.
[33:53] Is it right?
[33:55] No,
[33:55] by Sukadeva Goswami to Parikshit
[33:57] Maharaj.
[33:59] So, one of the key statements, I
[34:01] mentioned that 11
[34:02] 11 6 40 41 42.
[34:05] So, in 42,
[34:08] Uddhava says that that shapa he refers
[34:11] to the shapa and he says, "The
[34:13] brahmana's shapa has come, but you are
[34:16] although you have the power to counter
[34:18] it, you are not going to counter it."
[34:21] So, basically, what is happening?
[34:24] Parikshit Maharaj is being illustrated
[34:27] by Sukadeva Goswami that you have been
[34:30] cursed. You may think that you're
[34:31] unfortunate, but even the Lord himself
[34:34] was cursed. His family was cursed.
[34:37] And
[34:38] just as you did not try to counter the
[34:41] curse,
[34:42] even the Lord himself is not countering
[34:44] the curse.
[34:45] So, the idea is that generally when we
[34:47] are teaching,
[34:49] we need to consider the context and
[34:52] teach.
[34:54] What does it mean? Like a
[34:56] context-sensitive teaching means that if
[34:58] some young devotee
[35:02] has got cancer.
[35:04] Maybe he's like 30, 35 years old and got
[35:06] cancer, and they have a
[35:09] they have a family, they have a child,
[35:10] and they say, "Oh, I'll just go to
[35:11] Vrindavan Mayapur, and I will I'll leave
[35:14] my body over there."
[35:17] And that time,
[35:19] you see that nowadays there are so many
[35:20] cures are coming up, there are so many
[35:22] different ways, there's allopathy,
[35:24] naturopathy, so many alternatives are
[35:25] there. You have a full life ahead, you
[35:27] have so much service to do.
[35:29] So, we encourage them to engage in the
[35:32] world.
[35:33] And at that time, if you tell them
[35:34] stories, you will tell them, "Oh, this
[35:35] story, this devotee he fought against
[35:37] cancer and recovered, and he continued
[35:40] and did so much service." We'll tell
[35:41] that kind of stories to them.
[35:43] If say somebody's 75 years old,
[35:45] and they have got a third repeat of
[35:47] their cancer.
[35:49] For twice they did chemotherapy and it
[35:51] is gone, and they said, "No, oh, you
[35:53] know, I'll fight against cancer this
[35:55] time."
[35:56] Maybe not necessary. If they want to,
[35:58] that's fine, but if they decided more or
[36:01] less that I want to I want to go to
[36:03] Vrindavan Mayapur, and I want to leave
[36:04] my body as I am leaving.
[36:06] So, at that time, if that is their
[36:08] decision, we shouldn't be telling them
[36:10] stories, "Oh, you know, this devotee 17
[36:11] years old and every day he goes out on
[36:13] book distribution."
[36:15] We should be telling the telling
[36:18] those stories and those points which
[36:21] assist the other devotee in their
[36:22] service.
[36:25] So, now that Parikshit Maharaj has
[36:27] decided
[36:28] that I am not going to be involved in
[36:30] world transforming.
[36:33] I am going to focus on world
[36:34] transcending.
[36:36] Now, Parikshit Maharaj is also assisting
[36:39] Krishna in establishing dharma.
[36:41] But his establishing of dharma is by
[36:43] demonstrating how the influence of Kali
[36:46] can be transcended by hearing the
[36:48] Bhagavatam.
[36:49] So, he's also It is not that he is being
[36:52] passive or irresponsible. But Krishna
[36:55] wants him to teach all of
[36:57] through him something else to be taught.
[37:00] So, the world transcending effect of
[37:02] hearing the Bhagavatam is what
[37:05] is being taught through him. And so,
[37:06] therefore, Parikshit Maharaj is also
[37:09] being told by Sukadev Goswami stories
[37:12] that reinforce his determination.
[37:15] So, the Gita's world transcending is a
[37:18] message because it is
[37:20] context aware or context sensitive.
[37:24] That what is the mood of Parikshit
[37:27] Maharaj, what is the need of Parikshit
[37:28] Maharaj, accordingly instruction has to
[37:31] be given.
[37:33] And sometimes if we give the wrong
[37:35] instruction, we can cause enormous
[37:38] damage.
[37:40] Once I was
[37:42] uh when I was in Pune, I was at that
[37:44] time looking after the media department,
[37:46] not exactly media, the newspaper
[37:48] department. So, I would connect with
[37:49] various newspaper journalists and
[37:52] editors.
[37:53] So, I was cultivating one very talented
[37:56] author who was slowly becoming a
[37:57] devotee. So,
[37:58] one day he called me. I was in Bangalore
[38:01] at that time. And that time this was
[38:02] like 2000, early 2000s. So, we didn't
[38:05] have mobile then. So, somebody called He
[38:07] called me on phone at the local place.
[38:09] And he said, "I'm so fed up with you
[38:11] people. I'm never going to come to your
[38:13] temple. I don't want anything to do with
[38:14] you."
[38:16] I said, "What happened?"
[38:19] He said, "Uh uh
[38:22] you know, my mother passed away because
[38:24] of a heart attack. I had known that his
[38:26] mother was sick. I'm so sorry to hear
[38:28] this. He said, "No." He said,
[38:31] you know, you're going to
[38:32] I went to your temple I went to the
[38:33] temple I thought I'd meet you and talk
[38:35] with you.
[38:36] I met
[38:37] some other devotee and he said, "Oh,
[38:39] your mother has passed away?
[38:41] Tomorrow your father is going to pass
[38:43] away.
[38:43] Day after tomorrow your wife will pass
[38:45] away.
[38:46] After that your siblings will pass away.
[38:48] You know, ultimately everybody is going
[38:49] to die and we're all alone in this
[38:51] world. Get used to it."
[38:58] Now, this is
[39:00] this horrendously heartless.
[39:04] Is it really?
[39:05] That
[39:06] when Abhimanyu passes away, does Krishna
[39:09] tell him, "Hey, Abhimanyu has passed
[39:10] away.
[39:11] You know, everybody else is going to
[39:13] pass away."
[39:14] Krishna does not say that.
[39:18] So, when somebody is in pain,
[39:21] we want to give them wisdom, but wisdom
[39:24] in a way that comforts them, so leases
[39:26] them,
[39:27] alleviates them,
[39:29] not further agitates or depresses them.
[39:33] So, the point is that the Bhagavatam is
[39:35] demonstrating this
[39:37] is context sensitivity.
[39:39] And so, the Bhagavatam's overall message
[39:43] is world transcending.
[39:46] And its presentation of bhakti is also
[39:49] much more world transcending.
[39:51] I'll just add one last point before we
[39:53] conclude. So, because the Gita is more
[39:55] world transforming, so both the
[39:57] Bhagavatam and the the Bhagavad Gita and
[40:00] the Uddhava Gita,
[40:02] both prioritize bhakti yoga.
[40:07] So, bhakti yoga both say is the best.
[40:11] But, if you see
[40:14] the second best according to Gita,
[40:17] karma yoga is the second best.
[40:20] If you can't do bhakti yoga, then do
[40:22] karma yoga.
[40:23] Whereas in the Uddhava Gita, it is jnana
[40:26] yoga that is the second best.
[40:28] Because the idea is that if Arjuna can't
[40:31] act in a mood of devotion, then at least
[40:34] act to do your dharma, to do your
[40:36] responsibility, and fight the war.
[40:39] But Uddhava is if you cannot renounce
[40:42] the world with devotion, then renounce
[40:45] the world. Renounce the world based on
[40:47] knowledge.
[40:48] Act knowledge and detachment. See, that
[40:51] is a very important theme in the Uddhava
[40:53] Gita.
[40:55] In fact, throughout the Uddhava Gita,
[40:56] you practically find not much reference
[40:58] to karma yoga. There is a section on
[41:01] varnashrama,
[41:03] but it is description of more of varna
[41:05] dharma rather than karma yoga.
[41:08] So, the idea is that
[41:10] if A is not possible, then B.
[41:13] Then B is what? If somebody would engage
[41:16] in the world, then if you can't engage
[41:17] through bhakti yoga, then engage through
[41:19] karma yoga.
[41:20] If you want to be detached from the
[41:21] world, if you cannot be detached through
[41:23] dhyana through through bhakti yoga, then
[41:25] be detached through jnana yoga.
[41:29] So, in this way, the Gita's message is
[41:32] more world transcending. The The Uddhava
[41:35] Gita's message is more world Sorry, Gita
[41:37] is more world transforming.
[41:39] The
[41:40] Uddhava Gita's message is more world
[41:41] transforming.
[41:43] Sorry, world transcending. Transforming
[41:45] and transcending.
[41:46] So,
[41:48] let's do a summary. We discussed the
[41:50] Uddhava Gita introduction today.
[41:53] So, broadly, I discussed
[41:56] five main points. We discussed how
[41:57] within the Bhagavatam,
[41:59] what is the significance of the Uddhava
[42:01] Gita?
[42:03] That three things. It is the longest
[42:06] philosophical discussion.
[42:09] Then,
[42:11] it is
[42:12] the last
[42:14] instruction of Krishna.
[42:19] And
[42:22] the third point is that this is the most
[42:27] This is coming towards the conclusion of
[42:29] the Bhagavatam. This is the most
[42:31] You could say not just longest, but it
[42:33] is also the most comprehensive.
[42:35] Lots of subjects are discussed in one
[42:37] place.
[42:38] If you talk about the Kapila Samvada,
[42:41] Kapila Samvada is primarily about
[42:42] Sankhya and Sankhya to bhakti.
[42:45] But here there are many subjects that
[42:46] are discussed.
[42:47] And then we did a
[42:50] We did try to understand better with the
[42:51] BG
[42:52] versus UG comparison. And within that I
[42:55] discussed
[42:56] four main points. What was the acronym?
[42:59] C S E A N T.
[43:02] S was
[43:03] situation.
[43:05] The situation was at external level.
[43:07] This is at Kurukshetra.
[43:09] This is somewhere post Dwarka.
[43:13] Whether it is in Dwarka in a private
[43:14] chamber or whether it is on the way to
[43:17] Prabhas under a tree, but the Bhagavatam
[43:19] does not explicitly mention that.
[43:23] But so the situation this is public.
[43:26] This is private.
[43:28] Now both are happening before a practice
[43:31] side.
[43:32] So there is in terms of emotion, both
[43:35] are
[43:36] for processing pain.
[43:39] So both this I talked about how the
[43:40] world is a university of
[43:43] adversity.
[43:44] That what we learn in life is through
[43:47] pain. What to hold on to, what to let go
[43:49] of.
[43:50] So now in the case of Arjuna, the pain
[43:52] was agony.
[43:54] It was not just adversity, it was not
[43:56] just atrocity,
[43:58] but agony.
[44:00] And the agony was also further that
[44:03] he had to kill not just his relatives,
[44:06] but his mentors. Not just his relatives,
[44:09] but his elders, and not just his elders,
[44:10] but his teachers, and not just his
[44:12] teachers, but his mentors.
[44:13] So, now for Uddhava,
[44:16] the pain was
[44:18] more in terms of he was going to be
[44:21] abandoned.
[44:23] Everybody he knew,
[44:25] they were leaving him.
[44:27] Krishna was leaving him. He was going to
[44:28] be abandoned by Krishna, and he was
[44:31] going to be alone
[44:33] with not even
[44:35] anyone with him.
[44:36] So, I'm using the word abandoned in
[44:38] terms of Krishna, alone in terms of
[44:40] devotees or relatives, anyone else.
[44:42] So, how does one move forward in such a
[44:45] situation?
[44:46] That is what how to process pain, that's
[44:48] what is being taught.
[44:50] Then in terms of the approach,
[44:53] we discuss that here it is, principles
[44:55] are
[44:57] explained
[44:59] in the Bhagavad Gita.
[45:01] Now, in the Uddhava Gita also, the
[45:02] principles are explained, but explained
[45:03] plus
[45:04] exemplified
[45:06] through characters like Pururava,
[45:08] Avadhuta Brahmana, Avanti Brahmana,
[45:10] and through Pingala. These four main
[45:13] characters is illustrated, and then the
[45:15] theme,
[45:16] the overall teaching, it is
[45:19] it is both about bhakti, but the Gita is
[45:21] much more world
[45:22] transforming.
[45:24] That act in the world
[45:26] and fight for Krishna.
[45:29] Mhm?
[45:30] The Uddhava Gita is much more world
[45:32] transcending.
[45:35] So,
[45:38] this is what is the overview of this
[45:40] chapter. I'll quickly mention now, as
[45:41] the last point, what we are going to
[45:43] discuss in the next three sessions, and
[45:45] then we'll conclude.
[45:47] Right. So, while as I mentioned, there
[45:48] are lots of chapters, 23 chapters, and I
[45:51] don't want to make this a technical
[45:52] session where each chapter summary I
[45:53] want to do. I want to talk something
[45:56] more about themes that we can learn and
[45:58] apply in our life.
[46:00] So, I'm going to talk about three main
[46:01] themes
[46:02] that is in our next sessions. So we
[46:05] learn
[46:07] first is
[46:08] learn from life, learn from living.
[46:13] So this is where they talk about the
[46:16] the 24 gurus. The idea is how do we keep
[46:20] learning and growing when our gurus are
[46:22] no longer with us?
[46:24] Now Krishna is not there with him.
[46:26] Krishna was a friend as well as a guru.
[46:28] So how to learn from life and living?
[46:31] That is what we discuss with the few of
[46:33] the 24 gurus. Then we talk about learn
[46:36] from loss and pain.
[46:39] So in this I'll be talking about
[46:42] the
[46:44] two stories. One is pain that comes from
[46:47] others
[46:48] and pain that comes from ourselves.
[46:52] What do I mean by this?
[46:53] Life and living is the Avadhuta
[46:55] Brahmana.
[46:57] Pain that comes from others is Avanti
[46:59] Brahmana.
[47:01] And pain that comes from ourselves is
[47:03] Pururava.
[47:05] Pururava is because of his attachment he
[47:06] suffers.
[47:08] Now we can say Avanti Brahmana also
[47:09] suffering from his attachment and he
[47:10] feels this is all of my own mind. But if
[47:12] others have acted hurtfully towards him.
[47:15] So basically how to face pain in life?
[47:18] So in general learn from life,
[47:21] especially learn from loss and pain.
[47:25] That will be the second session.
[47:26] And then learn lastly love in
[47:29] separation.
[47:30] This is the
[47:32] theme that the Bhagavatam is going
[47:34] towards
[47:35] and this is also the theme of Gaudiya
[47:37] Vaishnavism. So that's where we talk
[47:40] about bhakti. And now this is is in one
[47:43] one sense this is throughout the Gita in
[47:45] the 11th and 12th chapter also it comes
[47:47] in the Uddhava Gita I mean and then it
[47:49] comes towards the conclusion also.
[47:51] That's how we discuss over the next
[47:53] three chapters.
[47:58] So
[48:01] I just made a small
[48:04] So I just made a small
[48:04] wait, small four-line poem
[48:07] which is summary of the
[48:10] theme of the session as well as a
[48:13] uh
[48:14] as well as a prayer.
[48:17] Oh Lord, you speak with untiring
[48:20] compassion
[48:21] to guide us through every tribulation.
[48:25] Oh Lord, you speak with untiring
[48:26] compassion to guide us through every
[48:29] tribulation.
[48:31] Grant me the
[48:33] insight
[48:34] to grasp meaning
[48:37] and the strength
[48:39] to reshape my living.
[48:41] Grant me the strength Grant me the
[48:43] insight to grasp your meaning
[48:47] and the strength
[48:50] the to reshape my living.
[49:06] Is there any questions or comments?
[49:41] As you mentioned
[49:43] we reported to be leader.
[49:49] We also come across devotees who seek
[49:52] our guidance.
[49:55] Sometimes they want to do the carrier
[49:57] which is not good for them.
[49:59] Sometimes they get into failure to
[50:01] relationships which are not also
[50:04] very good.
[50:05] Not as per Srila Prabhupada's speaking.
[50:09] But we also understand they are not
[50:11] ready to follow things up to the
[50:13] standards.
[50:15] And
[50:16] from Srila Prabhupada's books, from what
[50:18] I heard from what he was preaching and
[50:20] everything.
[50:22] We learn we are not supposed to talk to
[50:24] them in the way they do.
[50:26] And
[50:27] this one time I mentioned
[50:29] what is the
[50:31] How are you supposed to talk to them in
[50:32] that way?
[50:33] Okay.
[50:34] So,
[50:36] the question is that
[50:38] uh that are we to comfort people because
[50:40] I also said that only comforts is not a
[50:42] good one.
[50:43] And Prabhupada we also learned that
[50:44] Prabhupada didn't want us to compromise.
[50:48] I think there's a
[50:49] little bit of a confusion over here.
[50:52] Because the word comfort sometimes has a
[50:53] negative connotation like comfort zone.
[50:56] But yeah.
[50:57] You pick the word sycophant.
[51:00] Sycophant, okay. That's more like
[51:01] flattery.
[51:02] But see, basically
[51:04] uh
[51:06] when somebody is in pain,
[51:09] they want relief from that pain.
[51:11] And there's a verse in the third canto
[51:13] if anyone knows that shloka that the
[51:15] great devotees of the Lord they travel
[51:18] across the world
[51:19] uh
[51:20] assuring fearlessness to the people in
[51:23] the shelter of the Lord.
[51:26] Assuring fearlessness.
[51:27] Uh
[51:28] bhumi granthi something. Not granthi,
[51:30] bhumi bramanti something like that.
[51:31] Anyway,
[51:32] that too. People are very insecure.
[51:35] People are very distressed.
[51:38] People are in a lot of anxiety.
[51:41] And we need to offer them comfort in the
[51:43] sense of solace, shelter.
[51:45] Prabhupada also said that the deity
[51:47] should be so beautifully that people's
[51:49] minds are agitated.
[51:51] They see the deity and they feel
[51:52] peaceful. They feel joyful.
[51:55] Prabhupada when he started Mayapur he
[51:56] said, "We can sit under a tree and
[51:58] chant.
[51:59] But other people will not do that.
[52:00] That's why we have to create comfortable
[52:02] guest houses for them."
[52:04] So,
[52:05] in general, what Bhaktisiddhanta
[52:07] Sarasvati Thakura is saying is that
[52:09] we should not be flattering people just
[52:12] to get some money or donations from
[52:14] them.
[52:15] If they have misconceptions,
[52:17] the guru is not meant to be a flatterer.
[52:19] The guru is not meant to be sick of it.
[52:21] But in general, when we conduct when we
[52:24] interact with people,
[52:26] people should
[52:28] feel warm. People should feel cared for.
[52:31] People should should feel valued and
[52:32] loved.
[52:33] Otherwise, how are we going to have a
[52:34] community at all?
[52:37] So,
[52:38] people Nobody will want to come to a
[52:40] place where nobody cares for them.
[52:43] So, caring for each other involves
[52:45] sometimes comforting each other.
[52:47] Especially when pain is there, the
[52:48] comfort is required.
[52:50] And so, I'm talking more in the context
[52:52] of pain, we need to offer comfort to
[52:54] people.
[52:56] Now, beyond that, compromising,
[52:59] I think
[53:00] again the word compromise involves a lot
[53:02] of judgment.
[53:04] So, we see that Prabhupada wanted to
[53:07] engage people in bhakti.
[53:09] And Prabhupada did push people.
[53:12] But at the same time, Prabhupada was
[53:14] very pragmatic. He was very practically
[53:17] intelligent.
[53:18] So, if you see what happened in the
[53:19] ISKCON history,
[53:21] we had
[53:23] two main demographics in Prabhupada's
[53:24] time. There were Prabhupada's disciples.
[53:27] And they became the mostly Most of them
[53:29] were full-time.
[53:31] But during Prabhupada's time, there were
[53:33] life members.
[53:34] And there were hundreds and thousands
[53:36] upon thousands of life members.
[53:39] And none of them or very few of them,
[53:41] actually none of them became devotees.
[53:43] So, in one sense, they have become
[53:45] erased from ISKCON's history.
[53:48] But, they did a lot of service at that
[53:51] time.
[53:52] And why did the life members not become
[53:54] devotees? Well, one reason was that they
[53:56] were already
[53:58] established in society, they were
[54:00] already committed to some other gurus.
[54:03] And they appreciated Prabhupada not so
[54:06] much as their spiritual teacher
[54:09] as a as much as India's cultural
[54:11] ambassador.
[54:13] This Swami went to America, and he made
[54:16] Americans wear dhoti, kurta, and sari
[54:18] and make them devotees.
[54:20] So, they they appreciated and supported
[54:22] Prabhupada more because of cultural
[54:24] pride
[54:25] than spiritual dedication.
[54:28] And Prabhupada accepted them. Prabhupada
[54:29] engaged them. The two main life members
[54:31] who helped us in the in fighting the Jew
[54:34] battle.
[54:35] You know, both of them were actually
[54:37] initiated senior disciples of Mayavadi
[54:40] gurus.
[54:41] So, I talked about this both with
[54:43] Giriraj Maharaj and Radha Nath Maharaj.
[54:45] He said that whenever we would go to
[54:46] their home, there were these big
[54:47] pictures of these Mayavadi gurus.
[54:50] And Prabhupada never talked about them
[54:52] at all. So, was Prabhupada compromising?
[54:54] No, Prabhupada was strategizing.
[54:57] He said, "If somebody is that committed
[54:58] to a particular guru, to try to pull
[55:00] them away from that guru by telling how
[55:02] that guru is wrong or what is not going
[55:04] to work.
[55:05] But, they have some seva bhava, engage
[55:07] them in seva."
[55:08] So, what would be compromising and what
[55:11] is strategizing?
[55:13] It's not a easy easy demarcation, but a
[55:15] simple principle is that if we are going
[55:18] to somebody else's forum
[55:20] somebody else has provided us a forum to
[55:23] speak or to serve, to contribute, then
[55:26] we have to work within their parameters.
[55:29] So, if somebody in their home has put a
[55:32] picture of a Mayavadi guru, but they are
[55:34] also want to they you to do some
[55:36] service, they give us some contact, they
[55:37] give us some contribution financially.
[55:39] We don't have to condemn that.
[55:41] But if they say that I'll give you this
[55:42] contribution and for that you have to
[55:44] put your you have to put a picture of
[55:45] your my guru in your temple.
[55:48] Then this is our forum. We have to be
[55:50] careful about that.
[55:53] I was in a temple in Delhi and there I
[55:56] saw that when you enter in the temple
[55:57] there is some picture of some
[55:59] Babaji.
[56:00] I thought who is this? Maybe he's there.
[56:02] Is my knowledge of Gaudiya Vaishnava
[56:03] still so poor that I don't know somebody
[56:05] who's That was just a picture, actually
[56:07] it was a statue of him.
[56:09] When I asked the local devotees, there's
[56:11] some Baba, he is he is very very
[56:13] influential in North India
[56:15] and he is that way quite spiritual. He's
[56:18] married, but he doesn't want to His son
[56:21] is not at all interested in any kind of
[56:23] spirituality. His son drinks and other
[56:24] things. So he
[56:27] he doesn't want all the temples that he
[56:29] has built to go to
[56:31] go to his son because he will be very
[56:33] disrespectful.
[56:35] So he told ISKCON that I'll give this
[56:37] whole temple to you.
[56:39] But then his condition was that you say
[56:41] that this temple has been donated by
[56:43] him.
[56:44] And you have a plaque of that. So it's
[56:45] not inside the temple,
[56:47] but it's outside and this is they have
[56:49] made a small like a bust of him and they
[56:52] say it is this temple is built by his
[56:53] generosity.
[56:55] Now people notice that, but they they're
[56:56] not going to do any puja for that.
[56:58] So now is that a compromise
[57:01] or is that you know is that strategy? Is
[57:04] that diplomacy?
[57:05] We got a huge property in a prime
[57:07] locality in Delhi.
[57:10] We put that particular particular image
[57:12] of particular statue over there.
[57:15] I I don't think that's at all any
[57:17] problem.
[57:18] So we should have a very naive black and
[57:20] white kind of sense that this is
[57:21] compromise is not compromise.
[57:23] It was you have to strategize
[57:26] and that is choose our battles.
[57:29] Yes, I was in Juhu giving Bhagavatam
[57:30] class and there we were reading from
[57:32] uh on Ekadashi they read from this book
[57:34] uh uh
[57:35] uh book uh
[57:37] I shall be I will build you a temple.
[57:39] Giriraj Maharaj wrote about how he how
[57:41] he
[57:42] how he experienced Prabhupada fighting
[57:44] to build the temple.
[57:45] And so then the section that was going
[57:47] on
[57:49] was about how Prabhupada is about to
[57:51] meet Indira Gandhi.
[57:54] And he's discussing what we should talk
[57:56] with her.
[57:57] The main concern in Prabhupada's saying
[57:59] what happened in Lilamrita
[58:00] is we get very abbreviated
[58:03] uh narratives of very of incidents.
[58:07] And often what happens is Lilamrita was
[58:09] written at a particular time in ISKCON's
[58:11] history where the overall mood of ISKCON
[58:14] was confrontational.
[58:15] So only details of confrontational are
[58:18] described. Mhm.
[58:20] So that's just natural. It's not an
[58:21] intentional bias, but that's how
[58:23] actually it worked.
[58:24] So here uh Prabhupada is saying that
[58:26] what should we talk with Indira Gandhi?
[58:28] And his main concern at that time is
[58:30] that our devotees are not getting visas.
[58:33] Because they had this India had this
[58:34] tension with Pakistan. America was
[58:36] supposed to be supporting Pakistan. So
[58:38] our devotees were Americans, most of
[58:40] them, and they thought they were CIA
[58:41] implants. So they were not getting
[58:43] visas.
[58:44] So Prabhupada was saying that what
[58:46] should we tell to Indira Gandhi? He
[58:48] said, "Get the finances of
[58:52] uh how much food charity we are giving
[58:54] to everyone.
[58:55] How many people are we feeding? Who come
[58:57] to the temple? Who go out and do the
[58:59] temple? See how many people are getting
[59:02] employed by us.
[59:04] How much in Vrindavan, in Mayapur, how
[59:06] much economic development we have done?"
[59:08] So Prabhupada is talking purely in
[59:11] utilitarian terms.
[59:13] Now of course, the meeting didn't really
[59:15] go very well because just before that
[59:18] before that meeting the Bangladeshi
[59:20] Prime Minister had been Bangladeshi
[59:21] leader had been assassinated. There was
[59:23] a fear that Indira Gandhi might also be
[59:24] assassinated. She was distracted.
[59:26] But the point was that Prabhupada was
[59:30] not talking anything about you or
[59:31] telling her you have to you should chant
[59:32] Hare Krishna or anything.
[59:34] It's very strategic.
[59:36] So, she is in the government. She has to
[59:38] see what what the government has a
[59:40] particular purpose. How are you adding
[59:43] value to me?
[59:45] If I'm going to give you visa, how are
[59:46] you adding value to me?
[59:48] So, I gave a class there on Prabhupada's
[59:50] bridge preaching.
[59:51] You think bridge preaching is something
[59:53] new, but all preaching is actually
[59:54] bridge building.
[59:55] So, there's no preaching that is not
[59:57] bridge preaching.
[59:58] It's just different kinds of people will
[01:00:00] require different kinds of bridges.
[01:00:02] So, once we understand who we are
[01:00:04] dealing with and how far we can get that
[01:00:07] person.
[01:00:08] Then we build a bridge accordingly.
[01:00:11] So, what would be a compromise?
[01:00:12] Compromise is definitely a danger.
[01:00:15] What would be a compromise is say if in
[01:00:17] our Bhagavatam classes
[01:00:19] then we start speaking self-help kind of
[01:00:22] thing or in the Bhagavatam class we
[01:00:24] start talking about Hindutva and
[01:00:27] nationalism.
[01:00:28] And now yes, there may be a devotee who
[01:00:30] may be invited to some other forum and
[01:00:31] we may speak over there.
[01:00:33] But in the Bhagavatam class we should be
[01:00:34] focusing on Bhagavatam.
[01:00:36] In our Bhakti Shastri and Bhakti
[01:00:37] Vaibhava classes we should not be
[01:00:39] talking about self-help and mindfulness
[01:00:41] and science and spirituality. Maybe a
[01:00:43] brief reference could be there, but then
[01:00:45] we should be Shastri.
[01:00:47] So,
[01:00:49] uh for like context sensitivity I'm
[01:00:51] saying that forum sensitivity or context
[01:00:53] sensitivity that is just common sense.
[01:00:55] And without that we will create
[01:00:57] unnecessary trouble for ourselves.
[01:01:00] We will make enemies when we don't need
[01:01:02] to make enemies.
[01:01:03] Okay?
[01:01:05] You want to add something?
[01:01:08] Thank you, sir.
[01:01:10] I'll try to keep the other answers
[01:01:11] short. Yeah.
[01:01:13] In the morning class
[01:01:16] you were saying the theme of
[01:01:17] Prabhupada's
[01:01:18] uh transform the world is that
[01:01:21] the theme of the
[01:01:22] uh his self-interest society concepts.
[01:01:24] as a
[01:01:25] we are going to take
[01:01:29] So, we are mainly
[01:01:31] concerned with the world or
[01:01:33] transform the world. For example,
[01:01:36] we want to achieve something. So,
[01:01:38] We want to
[01:01:39] We want to achieve something.
[01:01:41] And if we see from the end of the kind
[01:01:43] of view, we are seeing the world. So, it
[01:01:45] may look like we have to decide what
[01:01:46] that is.
[01:01:48] Okay.
[01:01:50] See,
[01:01:51] in general,
[01:01:53] as sadhakas,
[01:01:55] we as devotees were engaged in the
[01:01:57] world,
[01:01:59] we need to
[01:02:01] have a balance. See, I said during
[01:02:02] Prabhupada's time, these two people were
[01:02:04] there.
[01:02:05] Srila Prabhupada's followers, there were
[01:02:06] these two categories.
[01:02:08] And if we consider today, most people
[01:02:11] are congregation devotees.
[01:02:13] Mhm. Of course, we have brahmacharis in
[01:02:15] a few places. When I first went to
[01:02:17] America, it was in 2015,
[01:02:19] I said, "When I was going to Pune and
[01:02:21] Mumbai," and he said,
[01:02:22] "Each place we have 150 brahmacharis."
[01:02:25] And when he said that, "Entire North
[01:02:26] America and South America together, we
[01:02:28] don't have 150 brahmacharis." So, so,
[01:02:31] it is as as of now, the temple-living
[01:02:34] full-time population of our movement is
[01:02:36] very small.
[01:02:38] So, during Prabhupada's time, there was
[01:02:39] no congregation at all.
[01:02:41] So, in one sense, at that time, it was
[01:02:44] almost entirely world-transcending.
[01:02:46] And the only world-transforming was
[01:02:48] preaching, so that we can make more
[01:02:50] temples or distribute more
[01:02:52] or distribute more books. So, it was
[01:02:54] primarily world-transforming was also
[01:02:56] more for creating places for
[01:02:58] world-transcending.
[01:02:59] Mhm.
[01:03:00] However, the casualty of that approach
[01:03:03] happened was that the entire first
[01:03:06] generation
[01:03:07] first generation of Prabhupada's
[01:03:08] disciples, those who were brahmacharis,
[01:03:11] practically none of their children have
[01:03:13] become devotees.
[01:03:15] Because if you're taking care of
[01:03:16] children, you have to think of the long
[01:03:18] term in this world.
[01:03:20] So, we didn't do that and we lost entire
[01:03:24] I mean
[01:03:25] as for whatever I have talked about
[01:03:27] probably maybe five or seven or 10
[01:03:30] among the
[01:03:32] children, entire children of all
[01:03:34] Prabhupada disciples have become
[01:03:35] devotees.
[01:03:37] Cuz they were just neglected in the name
[01:03:38] of world transcending. They were sent
[01:03:41] off to gurukuls where they were not
[01:03:42] offered proper care or even home where
[01:03:43] they were there. They were not offered
[01:03:45] proper care.
[01:03:46] So, that was a big catastrophe.
[01:03:49] So, the point is if we are going if
[01:03:51] somebody's going to be in the world,
[01:03:53] that means they are going to be
[01:03:55] householders,
[01:03:57] then they have to take care
[01:04:00] of their household responsibilities.
[01:04:02] And raising children is dharma.
[01:04:05] And we cannot be constantly I don't want
[01:04:07] to get attached to my children.
[01:04:09] You know, we may not want to get that
[01:04:11] attached to our children, but if our
[01:04:12] children don't get attached to us,
[01:04:13] that'll be a big problem.
[01:04:15] Isn't it?
[01:04:16] Isn't it? If the children don't get
[01:04:17] attached to the parents, why they want
[01:04:19] to obey the parents? Why they want to
[01:04:20] why they why they want to follow the
[01:04:22] values of the parents?
[01:04:23] And the word attached can have a
[01:04:25] negative connotation, but I think
[01:04:26] there's basically there has to be
[01:04:26] affection and bond between them.
[01:04:28] So,
[01:04:30] if worst is if the children start
[01:04:33] thinking that because of my parents'
[01:04:35] bhakti, they don't care for me.
[01:04:38] Because of parents' bhakti, they don't
[01:04:40] have time for me.
[01:04:41] Then they will not only become
[01:04:43] cold towards the parents, but they will
[01:04:45] become anti-bhakti also.
[01:04:47] So, if we are going to be in the world,
[01:04:49] then our seva in the world will have to
[01:04:51] transform the world.
[01:04:53] So, that means if somebody
[01:04:55] somebody has a home,
[01:04:57] now we want to make the home into a
[01:04:58] temple. That's wonderful. But the home
[01:05:00] also has to be a home.
[01:05:02] That means things have to be taken care
[01:05:04] of. There has to be nice bonding, nice
[01:05:06] caring for each other.
[01:05:07] And
[01:05:09] so, we based on our particular role, we
[01:05:12] have to we have a combination of world
[01:05:13] transcending and world transforming. And
[01:05:15] depending on where a person is, a person
[01:05:18] in the renounced order, they may focus
[01:05:20] more on world transcending and less on
[01:05:22] world transforming. Although they also
[01:05:24] go for the world transforming because
[01:05:24] they have projects they want to do in
[01:05:26] this world.
[01:05:27] But somebody who's a grahasta, for them
[01:05:29] the world transforming becomes even
[01:05:30] more.
[01:05:32] And each devotee will have to find the
[01:05:34] balance on their own.
[01:05:36] Because everybody's a different place.
[01:05:38] So, somebody who's at a different And
[01:05:40] they are 25, 30, 35. And somebody there
[01:05:42] is 45, 50, 55.
[01:05:45] And 25, 30, you're building a life right
[01:05:47] now.
[01:05:47] 50, 55, you're renouncing the retiring
[01:05:50] from life.
[01:05:51] So, we're retiring from life, so the
[01:05:53] world transforming will be much lesser.
[01:05:55] But we have to take care of both.
[01:05:57] So, as devotees, both are important for
[01:05:59] us.
[01:06:02] Any other questions?
[01:06:05] Yes.
[01:06:06] Behind.
[01:06:13] There is a wonderful philosophy that
[01:06:14] people have said that
[01:06:16] had Bhagavad Gita been spoken to Uddhava
[01:06:19] from the Uddhava would have left the
[01:06:20] battlefield and gone to renouncing. So,
[01:06:22] I want to know the context.
[01:06:24] Sorry, who said this?
[01:06:26] Jiva Goswami. Jiva Goswami.
[01:06:27] What what exactly did he say?
[01:06:29] He said had Bhagavad Gita been spoken to
[01:06:31] Uddhava
[01:06:32] Huh?
[01:06:33] Uddhava would have left the battlefield
[01:06:34] and gone to the forest.
[01:06:38] Gone to the forest as as opposed to
[01:06:40] what?
[01:06:40] As opposed to Arjuna fighting in the
[01:06:42] battlefield.
[01:06:45] So, Uddhava Gita had been spoken to
[01:06:47] Arjuna.
[01:06:48] Bhagavad Gita had been spoken to
[01:06:49] Uddhava.
[01:06:50] In audience of Krishna.
[01:06:51] Audience, if Arjuna in place of Arjuna
[01:06:54] there would be Uddhava.
[01:06:57] Okay, so what would have happened?
[01:06:58] Uddhava would have gone to the forest.
[01:07:00] Yes.
[01:07:01] Yes.
[01:07:04] I'll have to look at the context. I
[01:07:06] don't know about this.
[01:07:07] But then I would say that you know there
[01:07:09] is always a core which is unchanging.
[01:07:12] And there is a context in every
[01:07:14] scripture.
[01:07:16] Every shastra, there are two components.
[01:07:18] There is that which is timeless.
[01:07:21] And that which is timely.
[01:07:23] So
[01:07:26] the timeless core is the same. Both are
[01:07:28] talking about bhakti. Both are talking
[01:07:30] about transcendence. But the difference
[01:07:32] in the Bhagavad Gita and the Bhagavad
[01:07:33] Gita is how to reach that transcendence.
[01:07:36] So now if for example the Bhagavad Gita
[01:07:38] also in Krishna said, I spoke this to
[01:07:39] sun god. Imam Vivasvate yogam proktavan
[01:07:41] aham avyayam.
[01:07:42] Now when Krishna would have spoken this
[01:07:44] to sun god, he would not speak I would
[01:07:47] not speak Imam Vivasvate yogam proktavan
[01:07:49] aham avyayam.
[01:07:50] He will not say to the sun god that I
[01:07:52] spoke this to sun god.
[01:07:53] That's clearly contextual.
[01:07:55] So we could say that in the shastra
[01:07:59] the shastra that has a timeless wisdom.
[01:08:03] But then there is a timely
[01:08:07] dissemination of that wisdom.
[01:08:11] So at a particular time it's presented
[01:08:13] in a particular way.
[01:08:16] So
[01:08:18] if
[01:08:20] Bhagavad Gita was spoken to Uddhava,
[01:08:22] then Krishna would reformulate the
[01:08:24] message of the Bhagavad Gita in such a
[01:08:26] way that it would be of service to
[01:08:27] Uddhava. It would be of service to
[01:08:29] Uddhava. It would inspire assist It
[01:08:31] would inspire Uddhava to act in a way of
[01:08:35] service to Krishna's plan.
[01:08:37] So Krishna wanted Uddhava to do a
[01:08:39] particular service. So Krishna would
[01:08:40] have modified the teachings.
[01:08:42] So I would say that the core is not
[01:08:44] different. Core is the message of
[01:08:45] bhakti.
[01:08:46] But Krishna would have represented it in
[01:08:47] such a way that I doubt Krishna would
[01:08:49] have spoken the karma yoga section so
[01:08:51] much.
[01:08:52] And
[01:08:55] uh it's a it's a bit of a speculation
[01:08:57] what he would have changed. But
[01:08:59] certainly it's that message always has
[01:09:02] to be
[01:09:03] presented according to time, place, and
[01:09:04] circumstance. So, yes, Krishna could
[01:09:06] have re-
[01:09:08] re-
[01:09:09] I would say re-presented, re-packaged
[01:09:12] re-packaged the Bhagavad Gita in such a
[01:09:14] way that it could also serve the mass
[01:09:16] purpose of the Uddhava.
[01:09:19] So, both of them are similar.
[01:09:22] The The chapter on three modes is there.
[01:09:24] The analysis of bondage and liberation
[01:09:26] is there.
[01:09:27] There are many similarities.
[01:09:29] So, Krishna could have served that
[01:09:30] purpose to the same topic, but there
[01:09:33] would have to be some some difference
[01:09:34] would be there in how he would present
[01:09:36] it.
[01:09:37] Okay.
[01:09:37] Okay.
[01:09:39] Any other question?
[01:10:00] My goodness.
[01:10:03] The
[01:10:04] explanation of the pain
[01:10:07] that pain could come through the senses.
[01:10:10] And we got right down to the question.
[01:10:13] And then I don't
[01:10:15] And then how much knowledge I was
[01:10:17] putting in
[01:10:18] I didn't have the thought
[01:10:20] And then Krishna told me to worship the
[01:10:22] Bhagavad Gita.
[01:10:24] And then I only find that shame on the
[01:10:25] mind.
[01:10:26] Uh
[01:10:28] It was on Saturday evening
[01:10:31] 7:30 in the evening.
[01:10:33] We had gone to the beach.
[01:10:35] But I didn't say anything.
[01:10:36] Before
[01:10:37] putting the garland
[01:10:39] So, that I can
[01:10:40] that
[01:10:41] I can ask him to do that.
[01:10:44] I think I am not supposed to know.
[01:10:46] So, I can be saved there.
[01:10:48] But in the garden alone
[01:10:50] And then
[01:10:51] And then Krishna was the one.
[01:10:53] So, I can be saved there.
[01:10:55] Immediately everything became easy.
[01:10:58] And then you know all of us
[01:11:37] Let's take one one thing at a time.
[01:11:40] So, it's a very thoughtful question.
[01:11:42] That
[01:11:44] when
[01:11:45] Arjuna was in agony
[01:11:48] about he was about to attack Yudhisthira
[01:11:50] because Yudhisthira told him to put
[01:11:51] aside your Gandiva.
[01:11:53] So, Krishna just
[01:11:55] uh spoke some simple wisdom and some
[01:11:57] things just spoke more strategically
[01:11:59] rather than philosophically to calm him.
[01:12:02] So, I think two three differences are
[01:12:04] there over there.
[01:12:07] First is it was
[01:12:09] uh
[01:12:10] more uh
[01:12:13] the surge of
[01:12:14] anger but along with his own honor.
[01:12:18] Cuz Kshatriyas, they were bound by a
[01:12:20] code of honor that they would always
[01:12:22] stick to their vows.
[01:12:24] So, now at that particular point
[01:12:29] Arjuna didn't want to do it but he felt
[01:12:30] that I have to honor my word and I have
[01:12:32] to do it.
[01:12:33] So, it was a It was much more of a
[01:12:36] situational thing.
[01:12:38] And at that moment that particular
[01:12:40] situation had come and Krishna addressed
[01:12:41] that situation.
[01:12:43] So, whereas fighting with the Kauravas,
[01:12:46] you could call it situational but they
[01:12:48] didn't know that the war was going to
[01:12:49] end in in the days.
[01:12:51] They didn't know how long the war would
[01:12:53] go on.
[01:12:56] See, when the First World War started,
[01:12:59] the
[01:13:00] British leaders, they told the
[01:13:02] parliament, you know,
[01:13:04] our kids will be you know, when some
[01:13:06] Wednesday, our kids will be back home by
[01:13:07] Sunday.
[01:13:09] So, they thought the war would get over
[01:13:10] in 2-3 days.
[01:13:11] And the war went on for five full years.
[01:13:16] So, nobody can know in advance how long
[01:13:18] the war is going to go on. So, it was a
[01:13:19] much much bigger war and Arjuna's
[01:13:22] conflict was much much deeper at that
[01:13:25] time.
[01:13:28] And
[01:13:28] so, there there was no simple way for
[01:13:31] Krishna to address it.
[01:13:34] See, if the
[01:13:36] in that in that situation, but later on
[01:13:39] with Yudhisthira, the simple way to
[01:13:40] address it is that
[01:13:41] maranam atirichyate, that is honor is
[01:13:43] worse than death. So, if you feel you
[01:13:45] have to stick to your word,
[01:13:47] then stick to your word by insulting and
[01:13:50] insulting him in a way that is worse
[01:13:52] than death.
[01:13:53] And what Arjuna speaks is quite shocking
[01:13:55] at that time.
[01:13:56] So, after that, what happens is
[01:13:58] Yudhisthira feels so devastated, he
[01:14:00] says, yes, Arjuna, what you're saying is
[01:14:02] true. I'm not worthy of being a king.
[01:14:04] I'll go to the forest, you kill Karna,
[01:14:06] and after that, Bhima can become the
[01:14:07] king.
[01:14:08] So, Arjuna says, what are these brothers
[01:14:09] doing?
[01:14:11] First, Arjuna is acting like crazy, then
[01:14:13] Yudhisthira is acting like crazy.
[01:14:14] Krishna has to pacify Yudhisthira also.
[01:14:17] So, because it's a situational dilemma,
[01:14:20] Krishna had and Krishna could address it
[01:14:22] situationally.
[01:14:23] So, he did that. But because
[01:14:26] before the war, it's a much more
[01:14:27] long-term situation was there. Long-term
[01:14:30] challenge and engagement was there. So,
[01:14:31] Krishna had to address it appropriately
[01:14:33] by giving philosophy like that.
[01:14:36] So, what was the other part?
[01:14:42] So, you find that
[01:14:45] in the first chapter
[01:14:46] chapter 15,
[01:14:48] Arjuna
[01:14:57] Correct, yeah. So, that's a good
[01:14:58] example. What about your point also?
[01:15:00] Very nice example to relate it to.
[01:15:04] Yeah.
[01:15:09] Correct.
[01:15:18] Yeah. So, so Gita's message in that
[01:15:21] sense, it has a contextual application
[01:15:23] at that time. Krishna wanted Arjuna to
[01:15:25] fight.
[01:15:26] And Arjuna did that. But, is the Gita's
[01:15:29] core message about world transcending or
[01:15:31] world transforming? No, it is bhakti in
[01:15:34] the mood of world transcending or bhakti
[01:15:36] in the mood of world transforming.
[01:15:38] So, it it's a good example that from the
[01:15:40] what Jiva Goswami says, I think that
[01:15:42] same thing is illustrated that
[01:15:44] Arjuna was also able to transcend the
[01:15:45] world by remembering the message of the
[01:15:46] Bhagavad Gita.
[01:15:48] So, the core message of the Bhagavad
[01:15:50] Gita is not to transform the world. It
[01:15:51] is a contextual application.
[01:15:54] And then, because that contextual
[01:15:55] application is so important, so the
[01:15:57] overall treatment is in that direction.
[01:16:00] That's why karma yoga is emphasized more
[01:16:01] than bhakti yoga, and jnana yoga and
[01:16:03] dhyana yoga are relatively discouraged.
[01:16:05] But, overall, the core message is about
[01:16:08] transcending the world.
[01:16:09] Good point. Thank you. Thank you very
[01:16:11] much.
[01:16:12] Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu ki
[01:16:14] I offer my obeisances to him.